Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about how incredibly complex I spit is.
Speaker 1: It may only be water, but just aliva isn't simple.
Speaker 1: That remaining one percent holds incredibly meaningful information that could
Speaker 1: change everything. And I'm not just talking about your family
Speaker 1: treat Hi. I'm barre to day Thurston and on this
Speaker 1: season of Spit and I Heart Radio podcast with twenty
Speaker 1: three and Me, we explore how DNA isn't just about ancestry,
Speaker 1: it can also be key to understanding your health. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be back and even more excited
Speaker 1: to share this special episode from Many Driver. If you
Speaker 1: haven't already checked out her show, you gotta do it.
Speaker 1: It's called Many Questions and I've been on it and
Speaker 1: it was great and I feel like we're friends now,
Speaker 1: but I hope we're not overstepping my bounds anyway. Check
Speaker 1: out the whole podcast now. In this episode, you're about
Speaker 1: to hear Many Sits with an Wajiski, co founder and
Speaker 1: CEO of twenty three in Me. What an intimate and
Speaker 1: inspiring conversation between two women who share a deep appreciation
Speaker 1: for both health and happiness from the joy of finding
Speaker 1: moments of adventure, bigger, small, to the importance of advocating
Speaker 1: for oneself many and and they explore it all. And
Speaker 1: story is one of community and connection with a unique
Speaker 1: early childhood fascination for how the human genome works. It's
Speaker 1: definitely not a part of my childhood story, but that's
Speaker 1: why she runs the company and me. Yet it was
Speaker 1: this fascination that ultimately inspired Ann's lifelong mission of empowering
Speaker 1: others to take ownership of their personal health. AND's work
Speaker 1: asks us, what can your genetics tell you? And how
Speaker 1: can it help you lead a healthier and happier life
Speaker 1: As someone who has been fondly referred to as the
Speaker 1: Princess of Possibilities, and helps us understand where to find
Speaker 1: some of these answers. And it's no secret that your
Speaker 1: d n A may have something to do with it.
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. You have two sisters. I have
Speaker 1: two sisters, so I live with my middle sister. Are
Speaker 1: you the youngest with the oldest from the youngest? Ha?
Speaker 1: I see, I was the youngest to them, became the
Speaker 1: middle of three, So I get it. I get that dynamic.
Speaker 1: We very much have the birth order dynamics in our family.
Speaker 1: We all tease each other about that aspect. It's a
Speaker 1: real thing, No, I joke. I was like in the company.
Speaker 1: One of my superpowers is learning how to ignore people,
Speaker 1: and I learned that from my siblings. So I I
Speaker 1: never mind getting criticism, I never mind taking feedback because
Speaker 1: I'm really good at ignoring it. You've been say whatever
Speaker 1: you want. I'm gonna, you know, make my own decisions.
Speaker 1: And hello, I'm Mini driver. Welcome to Many Questions, Season two.
Speaker 1: I've always loved Prust's questionaire. It was originally a nineteenth
Speaker 1: century parlor game where players would ask each other thirty
Speaker 1: five questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature.
Speaker 1: It's just the scientific method, really. In asking different people
Speaker 1: the same set of questions, you can make observations about
Speaker 1: which truths appeared to be universal. I love this discipline,
Speaker 1: and it made me wonder, what if these questions were
Speaker 1: just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be
Speaker 1: revealed if I ask these questions as conversation starters with
Speaker 1: thought leaders and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. So
Speaker 1: I adapted Pruf's questionnaire and I wrote my own seven
Speaker 1: questions that I personally think a pertinent to a person's
Speaker 1: story they are when and where were you happiest? What
Speaker 1: is the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship,
Speaker 1: real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would
Speaker 1: you most like answered? What person, place, or experience has
Speaker 1: shaped you the most? What would be your last meal?
Speaker 1: And can you tell me something in your life that's
Speaker 1: grown out of a personal disaster? And I've gathered a
Speaker 1: group of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored
Speaker 1: and humbled to have had the chance to engage with.
Speaker 1: You may not hear their answers to all seven of
Speaker 1: these questions. We've whittled it down to which questions felt
Speaker 1: closest to their experience or the most surprising, or created
Speaker 1: the most fertile ground to connect My guest today on
Speaker 1: many questions is the founder and CEO of the biotech
Speaker 1: Phenomenon twenty three and me and which is key? And
Speaker 1: founded the company with the central idea of creating a
Speaker 1: consumer product that sought to rework the healthcare model by
Speaker 1: empowering individuals to take control of their own health. I
Speaker 1: know when I did the DNA test, I was interested
Speaker 1: in my ancestry you'll perhaps be unsurprised to hear that
Speaker 1: I'm virtually a Northern European, specifically Anglo Saxon. The other
Speaker 1: focus though, of twenty three and me, are these health
Speaker 1: reports the company also fair that give you a deeper,
Speaker 1: more complex view of your health using your DNA. It's
Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary to be able to find out if you're
Speaker 1: an increased risk of developing certain diseases ahead of actually
Speaker 1: developing them. It gives you a chance to take preventative measures,
Speaker 1: to really see your own health from the place of
Speaker 1: knowledge being power, and is an incredibly inspiring person to
Speaker 1: talk to. She was the kind of child who lay
Speaker 1: in bed at night wondering about molecular biology and the
Speaker 1: expanding universe. But she also seems to be the kind
Speaker 1: of person who wouldn't judge someone like me who used
Speaker 1: to lie in bed at night dreaming about being on
Speaker 1: night Rider. Where and when were you happiest? There's two
Speaker 1: things so one I mean, which I think every man
Speaker 1: would say, it's like the birth of my children was
Speaker 1: just there's nothing better than the day your children are born.
Speaker 1: There's just there's no comparison. Yes, But when I think
Speaker 1: about besides that, moment which I have to miss honor.
Speaker 1: I took off a year when I was traveling after
Speaker 1: the stock market went crazy in two thousand and I
Speaker 1: finally said, like, I need a break, and I decided
Speaker 1: that the only place I could go to get peace
Speaker 1: and quiet was Siberia. Oh you like the cold, Okay,
Speaker 1: Well it was in the summer. Well, no, I take
Speaker 1: it back. It was it was September. I made the mistake.
Speaker 1: It got cold. Maybe I left in August. But I
Speaker 1: decided I was going to take the train across Siberia.
Speaker 1: It was going to be meditative, the Trans Siberian correct,
Speaker 1: I've heard of that trine. So I started in Moscow
Speaker 1: and I ended in Beijing, and I stopped along the
Speaker 1: way and I wanted to go to a place called
Speaker 1: Lake which is in you know, near Mongolia, and there's
Speaker 1: an island on in it called Okon Island. And I
Speaker 1: just wanted to go to this island and camp. And
Speaker 1: I remember once I got there and I had this
Speaker 1: guide and I remember asking, I was like, what do
Speaker 1: we do? He's like, you will watch the fire, Like
Speaker 1: That's all we did. And it was the first time
Speaker 1: I remember it was like there was kind of before
Speaker 1: that moment where I was so attached to my BlackBerry
Speaker 1: kind of running, and then there was after that where
Speaker 1: I was like, you just enjoy like every moment was
Speaker 1: so vivid and it's amazing, like to be really free
Speaker 1: in the world, Like I had one pair of pants,
Speaker 1: one pair of sweat, one sweater, two shirts. I didn't
Speaker 1: have a phone, and I just traveled like every day
Speaker 1: was a little bit different, and again I had no responsibility.
Speaker 1: There's something about being truly free and having no responsibility
Speaker 1: and exploring the world. And I remember getting to Beijing
Speaker 1: and walking in and it was like I had my bags,
Speaker 1: I couldn't speak the language, like it smells totally different.
Speaker 1: And I remember just like I love everything about this,
Speaker 1: like it's just so different and I can't wait to explore.
Speaker 1: And I kept traveling. I just loved it. And as
Speaker 1: you know, like as as a parent, like once you
Speaker 1: have children, you're never mentally free, like you will always
Speaker 1: you'll always worry about them. And so there's a brief
Speaker 1: moment when you're an adult un till you have kids
Speaker 1: where you actually are truly free, absolutely, because that's really
Speaker 1: what it is. It's like that nomadic impetus just to
Speaker 1: go to go and put yourself in a different landscape,
Speaker 1: a different environment, to not worry, to be able to
Speaker 1: put down a phone. That is a pre kids experience.
Speaker 1: Because you're right, you can try. I've tried to go
Speaker 1: off by myself. It's hard. I mean I can, but
Speaker 1: I'm your brain is will forever be with them. You're
Speaker 1: always gonna want to check in, You're always gonna worry.
Speaker 1: And I think there was something about, you know, even
Speaker 1: in this time, it's hard to ever fully disconnect. I
Speaker 1: have no doubt if I went back to that island,
Speaker 1: I would have cell access. And you know, there was
Speaker 1: something about like really forcing a break and just enjoying
Speaker 1: that experience. And I think I love that sense of adventure.
Speaker 1: So I used to bike to work every day, and
Speaker 1: I would never take the same path. And in part because,
Speaker 1: like I just I love getting lost, Like I love
Speaker 1: getting lost and figuring it out. I love exploring, like
Speaker 1: seeing new things, like seeing a new restaurant, like seeing
Speaker 1: a new house, like somebody change their garden, Like I
Speaker 1: just there's something about like that tiny, minuscule sense of
Speaker 1: adventure that you get when you're you know, working and
Speaker 1: with kids that really kept my brain alive. I couldn't
Speaker 1: agree with you more. I'm not the biggest fan of routine,
Speaker 1: and routine is what children obviously thrive on, but finding
Speaker 1: the variants. I think freedom and variety would be corner
Speaker 1: stones of happiness for me as well. My favorite thing
Speaker 1: I used to do with my dad when I was little.
Speaker 1: I would get in the car. He wouldn't have a destination,
Speaker 1: and I would get to pick left or right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's funny. I used to do that as well. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's some people who love that kind of
Speaker 1: adventure and some people who just don't. But I love
Speaker 1: that sense of wild adventure, like no idea where I'm
Speaker 1: going to be, Like I've spring break next week and
Speaker 1: I do not know where I'm going. That's super fun.
Speaker 1: I like that. I think it's really good being that
Speaker 1: kind of apparent as well. I think they get to
Speaker 1: see that modeled, just that idea of get lost and
Speaker 1: you can always figure it out. There's always somewhere to stay,
Speaker 1: always somewhere to eat, can always sleep in your car.
Speaker 1: It's a good exercise exactly. And also you can always
Speaker 1: figure out where the north star is. We just learned
Speaker 1: that on a camping trip in the desert recently. It
Speaker 1: was so brilliant. There's all sorts of tricks you can
Speaker 1: always mind, Yeah, what relationship real or fictionalized to finds lovely.
Speaker 1: I had a truly extraordinary childhood. I've had the same
Speaker 1: best friends since I had Again, I met one of
Speaker 1: my best friends in kindergarten, another a couple of years later.
Speaker 1: And there's something about true love that when you can
Speaker 1: go through all those iterations again, I go through my childhood,
Speaker 1: I go through adulthood. You know, it's up and down,
Speaker 1: and it's incredibly supportive, real connection that endures and also
Speaker 1: evolves and evolves, and it's it's it's it's the type
Speaker 1: of thing where again I think about it from like
Speaker 1: a rubber band perspective, is you have that ability to
Speaker 1: stay connected, but you're not it's not restrictive. Again, I
Speaker 1: think back on on the relationship and also how different
Speaker 1: we all are now, but yet how supportive of like
Speaker 1: the true person and like evolving and becoming your your
Speaker 1: that real person. So I'm grateful to the whole community
Speaker 1: that I grew up in because it's a community, like
Speaker 1: we do events all the time for like the community
Speaker 1: that we grew up with, and it's all these people
Speaker 1: who I've known since kindergarten and my parents friends. It's
Speaker 1: this like true appreciation for differences and that you're a
Speaker 1: unique person. And I think that's kind of one thing
Speaker 1: that I love is like that in some ways, like
Speaker 1: the more you are truly you, it's like everyone shines.
Speaker 1: There's no force of conformity other than that you should
Speaker 1: be the true you. So I feel really lucky whenever
Speaker 1: people talk about me and my sisters, and I almost
Speaker 1: feel I have to correct them because it does take
Speaker 1: a village in that capacity. And I think back again
Speaker 1: my friendly met in kindergarten, those parents, like I call
Speaker 1: them emano, but like mom and dad and their siblings,
Speaker 1: like they were part of the whole community that raised
Speaker 1: all of us and that are still taught me about
Speaker 1: true relationships and true connection. That's so interesting, this huge
Speaker 1: business that you're doing, when actually the fundament of it
Speaker 1: is because it feels to me that microcosm of a
Speaker 1: connected community that you come from, beloved and appreciated and supportive.
Speaker 1: You take that to the macro and you put that
Speaker 1: on a global like imagine if one could have that
Speaker 1: feeling of connectivity and community on a global scale, like
Speaker 1: how different the world will be, Like I completely understand
Speaker 1: why you why twenty three and me is like your
Speaker 1: life's work. Like that makes that's super cool though. I
Speaker 1: really like that it's connected to your emotional evolution, to
Speaker 1: how you yourself evolved. I think in some ways the
Speaker 1: best companies are almost just an extension of the person.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that is exactly what it is?
Speaker 1: That really the ones that work are they are connected
Speaker 1: on a deep level. Yeah. I like, to me, twenty
Speaker 1: three is not a it's not like it's just a company.
Speaker 1: When I talk to a lot of the founders in
Speaker 1: the area where they've done really well and it's and
Speaker 1: they've stayed connected, it's because it's such an extension of them.
Speaker 1: And in a lot of ways, like I'm perpetually fueled
Speaker 1: by the intellectual curiosity and also the sense of community.
Speaker 1: I think that we foster and we foster a real community.
Speaker 1: I think there's nothing more lonely than the experience of
Speaker 1: health and being sick and trying to find the right
Speaker 1: people that and connect to. So I think doing more
Speaker 1: in that area and then connecting the world as a
Speaker 1: family and helping people see that, you know, celebrate that
Speaker 1: the connectedness, but also each person's individuality. What question would
Speaker 1: you most like answered? What? As a child used to
Speaker 1: keep me up at night? What this is? I like,
Speaker 1: I remember learning about things like the electron transport chain,
Speaker 1: like like how your cells work and your DNA and
Speaker 1: wondering like your body is this incredible? Like each cell
Speaker 1: is like New York City and it functions and I
Speaker 1: don't do anything. I go to bed and all this
Speaker 1: work is happening. And I remember as a kid, I
Speaker 1: was like, doesn't it keep you up? Like how is
Speaker 1: it all happening? And so again, the things that perplexed
Speaker 1: me the most are the molecular biology g and and
Speaker 1: how the body works and that's why again it gets
Speaker 1: down to the genome, like that's the code, Like how
Speaker 1: is it that you have such spectacular diversity on this planet?
Speaker 1: And where does this all come from? Is that what
Speaker 1: made you so interested in observable DNA reports? Like is
Speaker 1: that where it began? There's two things that like we're
Speaker 1: big triggers for me. So one, as a child, I
Speaker 1: loved twin studies, Like I remember when National Geographic pulled
Speaker 1: out a whole you know, edition about twins and the
Speaker 1: twin studies, and I remember just pouring through it and
Speaker 1: just fascinating, like identical twins separated at birth, what's similar?
Speaker 1: What's what's genetic and what's environment? And the first time
Speaker 1: I had ever heard about d n A was from
Speaker 1: my mom and she was yelling about something she was
Speaker 1: I was about five, and she was yelling at my
Speaker 1: sister for something about her genes. And I remember thinking
Speaker 1: she was wearing shorts and that my mom was confused,
Speaker 1: and so I kept asking. I was like, what are genes?
Speaker 1: What are genes? And then my mom explained, you know,
Speaker 1: genes and environment, and I was just fascinated, like what
Speaker 1: do you mean, Like, there's like a code inside you
Speaker 1: and then it interacts with your environment and you have
Speaker 1: this ability to understand the code, and then you know
Speaker 1: change how you live. And then you could remember asking
Speaker 1: her as like, then you could live forever like you
Speaker 1: could you'd be healthy. And so from early on, I
Speaker 1: was always fascinated with health. And I had spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about going to medical school. And
Speaker 1: I love people like I loved I worked as a
Speaker 1: patient advocate, and I love just like sitting with people
Speaker 1: as they're you know, waiting for surgery. And I remember
Speaker 1: talking to this woman who was the first black family
Speaker 1: in Napa, and remember hearing everything about like the journey
Speaker 1: that they had across and you know what it was
Speaker 1: like living there and just sitting there while she was
Speaker 1: waiting for surgery, like every human is fascinating and so
Speaker 1: kind of It was that combination of like I love genetics,
Speaker 1: I love looking at jeans and environment, and I love
Speaker 1: the store, like I love connecting with people. It's the stories.
Speaker 1: Like the story that's all I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: just really quickly is an adject because my mother, when
Speaker 1: she was dying, we were telling stories with her and
Speaker 1: she went, do you remember when you made me do
Speaker 1: the twenty three and me and I was like yeah,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to make sure that we were related.
Speaker 1: And she said, and I said to you, they're only
Speaker 1: going to find out that I'm red lipstick. We did
Speaker 1: it together because we were interested. We were interested in
Speaker 1: those stories and in the stories of our ancestors. So
Speaker 1: where that begins, your health story is connected to that.
Speaker 1: But I loved finding out I am quite literally as
Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon as it gets. I'm like nine point seven
Speaker 1: percent British and Irish, which is astonishing, which means that like,
Speaker 1: my people literally never left that sodden, freezing, cold, lump
Speaker 1: lumpish island that is England. Well you proved them you
Speaker 1: moved to California. Good job, you're the breakout. And of
Speaker 1: course now my skin is not supposed to be in
Speaker 1: the Californian sun. But I'm fully aware of that because
Speaker 1: I know what my history is. Yeah, well, I think
Speaker 1: that's what's fun. Is like you can look a certain
Speaker 1: way and people think they know their ancestry, but there's
Speaker 1: always interesting surprises. Everyone also finds relatives, like whether you
Speaker 1: know your ancestry actually matches what you thought it was,
Speaker 1: your genetic ancestry matches what you thought. But then there's
Speaker 1: like the whole world of like you're connected to people
Speaker 1: that you never knew you were connected to. And we
Speaker 1: even found that we have a first cousin that we
Speaker 1: didn't know about. Yeah, so it's I always tell people like,
Speaker 1: if you don't have a family a DNA relative story,
Speaker 1: you know, just sit back and wait and I'm sure
Speaker 1: one will come your way. Like the reality is that
Speaker 1: life is complicated, life is long, and people like sex,
Speaker 1: and so you know, you end up having a lot
Speaker 1: of relatives that you didn't necessarily know about. I think
Speaker 1: I have to find out that Adam Driver is my cousin.
Speaker 1: Oh you know. That was one of the first studies
Speaker 1: we ever did, is Warren Buffett and Jimmy Buffett. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I want to find out they came to
Speaker 1: us determined like that, you have to find out how
Speaker 1: we're related. We had a very brief conversation once I
Speaker 1: had family drive. A family moved from Ireland to Canada
Speaker 1: and they then moved down to the neighboring state that
Speaker 1: Adam drivers family is from, and it felt like there
Speaker 1: was proximity enough that there was a likelihood if it
Speaker 1: was a neighboring state. But I'd love to know. That
Speaker 1: would be a fun follow onto the story. He might
Speaker 1: not want to know. Be like god, no, because I
Speaker 1: if I am, then that's going to follow me around
Speaker 1: like a yoke ask me forever. But connection and storytelling
Speaker 1: like that is the nexcess of science and art like
Speaker 1: right there. So what's one of the things that's interesting
Speaker 1: is most of science today is not made accessible. I agree.
Speaker 1: So that was like one of the other things, like
Speaker 1: my father is a particle physicist, and when there was
Speaker 1: a Nobel Prize given for the expanding Universe, and I
Speaker 1: remember asking my dad. I was like, what's the difference
Speaker 1: between an expanding universe versus an inflating universe? And he
Speaker 1: looks at me. He's like, well, one is expanding and
Speaker 1: one's inflating. And I was like, you know, thanks, dad,
Speaker 1: that's great. I didn't catch that. And I realized, like,
Speaker 1: there has to be a way to make science accessible
Speaker 1: and relatable. I see because again I have my little kids,
Speaker 1: like fourth grade humor, when people are like looking at like,
Speaker 1: oh I can do this with my Like I'm double jointed.
Speaker 1: Can you do this? Can you do that? Like that's
Speaker 1: like we're all different, and how do you get people
Speaker 1: excite it about human you know, human variety, human variation,
Speaker 1: and like the magical experience of science. I mean, I
Speaker 1: wonder if it would make us more tolerant as well,
Speaker 1: Like the more that we see being able to twist
Speaker 1: your tongue is a genetic coding. But that idea that
Speaker 1: I wonder if you see someone who looks differently to you,
Speaker 1: but they can do the same thing that you can
Speaker 1: do with your body, So there is this connection. There
Speaker 1: are these pathways and bridges, Like I wonder if that also,
Speaker 1: like the more that we know, the more that we
Speaker 1: know that we're connected, will we start living in a
Speaker 1: more connected way? Will there be a sort of systemic
Speaker 1: societal change based on really bellying up to our connectivity
Speaker 1: rather than the hideous separation that everyone seems to keep
Speaker 1: fighting for. Well, we had some and there was a
Speaker 1: story that was written about this of somebody who was
Speaker 1: descendant of white supremacists who had a child that they
Speaker 1: had last tracker or didn't know about, and that child
Speaker 1: had multiracial children and they reconnected on twenty three me. Wow,
Speaker 1: And he said he was like I had to really
Speaker 1: assess my past, like how I was raised, because these
Speaker 1: are my grandchildren and I'm going to love them, and
Speaker 1: it's this whole It's a really wonderful story about sort
Speaker 1: of that reconciliation of Like, and the father of these
Speaker 1: children was like, was I excited to have a white
Speaker 1: supremacist grandfather? Like no, but like it's family, so we're
Speaker 1: going we're going to work through it. And they spend
Speaker 1: time together. So I do think it's been an eye
Speaker 1: open up for a number of customers to realize that
Speaker 1: they have this assumption of like, oh, I'm French or
Speaker 1: I'm I'm something, but the reality is you are quite
Speaker 1: connected to everyone, and one day there's going to be
Speaker 1: the ability to put together a human map where every
Speaker 1: single person is connected and so we are all connected.
Speaker 1: I mean then the amazing thing to the reason why
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with DNA is like, it's so simple. You
Speaker 1: have four letters, A, C, G, and T, and it
Speaker 1: represents all of life. So my kids like again, talk
Speaker 1: about all the time you are connected to a banana,
Speaker 1: like you have d N A in common. And I
Speaker 1: was like, and you are more connected to a snail, like,
Speaker 1: we are interconnected to everything that's alive on this planet.
Speaker 1: And it's a remarkable story of like how like again,
Speaker 1: such a simple foundation can lead to such spectacular diversity everywhere,
Speaker 1: and the diversity is the story of our success. You know,
Speaker 1: you have dark skin for a reason and you have
Speaker 1: pale skin for a reason, and part of it is
Speaker 1: because there's survival advantages around that. So you know, some
Speaker 1: mutations are just random, and some mutations like make it
Speaker 1: that you are more likely to survive. So that's why
Speaker 1: we should absolutely celebrate and embrace, like diversity is why
Speaker 1: we know that the human species is going to survive.
Speaker 1: Like one thing I'm fascinated with is again this world
Speaker 1: of global global warming. I had one day my head
Speaker 1: of marketing, Um, it was a hundred thirty degrees in Arizona,
Speaker 1: and my head of marketing is, like, I have to
Speaker 1: go down to Arizona. I just I love it when
Speaker 1: it's over a twenty and I remember staring at her.
Speaker 1: I was like, you are made for global warming, Like
Speaker 1: you're going to survive. I don't like heat. There's even
Speaker 1: like that kind of variety, like some people just love
Speaker 1: super super hot weather. So we have again we should
Speaker 1: absolutely be embracing this kind of diversity and like celebrating
Speaker 1: and minding it and understanding it that we're all very different.
Speaker 1: I agree twenty three and me is part of like
Speaker 1: the interest in that as well, that thinking about molecular
Speaker 1: biology of mapping, what we can know of mapping as
Speaker 1: much as we can know, while leaving space for that
Speaker 1: which we will never know. Is that part of the
Speaker 1: impetus of going, well, let's create maps where we can well.
Speaker 1: Part of twenty three was like we should understand what
Speaker 1: the human genome does like how we should understand how
Speaker 1: it works. It's a code, right, It's a code in
Speaker 1: my mind. It almost gets down to again going back
Speaker 1: to the physics element, which is like functions off some
Speaker 1: there's major rules like equals mc square, Like there's major rules,
Speaker 1: Like biology doesn't have a lot of that other than
Speaker 1: we have you know, the A, C, G, and T.
Speaker 1: But I'm trying, like there's some amazing work now that's
Speaker 1: about how does that actually translate into a protein? And
Speaker 1: then can you predict the function? Is that where the
Speaker 1: health reports would come from. That kind of idea it
Speaker 1: that you can predict the kinds of things that would
Speaker 1: happen around sudden sets of DNA. So the whole idea
Speaker 1: here is like everyone is born with a certain set
Speaker 1: of risks, so the same way like you have this
Speaker 1: incredible variation in your genome, and so you can have
Speaker 1: blue eyes, you have brown eyes, but you can also
Speaker 1: have you know, being higher risk for diabetes, lower risk
Speaker 1: for diabetes. Very little of your genetics is deterministic, meaning
Speaker 1: like you know, you can have a genetic predisposition for
Speaker 1: something correct, but it doesn't mean you're definitely going to
Speaker 1: have it right. To me, then it was all about, well,
Speaker 1: you interact with the environment all day long, So how
Speaker 1: am I eating? You know, how am I exercising? Like
Speaker 1: I'm standing right now? You know, if there's all the
Speaker 1: kinds of data about how you stand, like I sleep,
Speaker 1: I absolutely prioritize sleeping because there's all kinds of data
Speaker 1: now actually pointing to mental health and your physical health
Speaker 1: and how much you're actually sleeping and then what time
Speaker 1: you go to bed. So I've always been interested in
Speaker 1: the interaction. So you have yourselves all communicating, but then
Speaker 1: you also get all these inputs. That's why it's so
Speaker 1: spectacularly complicated. Did great, So I'm glad that you're unwrapping
Speaker 1: all of this and not me. I will continue to
Speaker 1: spit into my thing and you'll then tell me what's up.
Speaker 1: And this is where I get. I feel like we're
Speaker 1: surrounded by amazing people who just the amount of data
Speaker 1: now that we can have, we can like start to
Speaker 1: find these things and really help people understand risks. I
Speaker 1: think that's the key, being able to help people assess
Speaker 1: the risk and sort of get out ahead of things
Speaker 1: potentially right. And also, no, I mean most of the
Speaker 1: world doesn't focus on prevention. I mean, it's a really
Speaker 1: sad part of healthcare is that healthcare doesn't make money
Speaker 1: if you never get sick. Like I read about there's
Speaker 1: this ranger who just retired at a hundred. She's amazing,
Speaker 1: she and she was a park ranger. She retired at
Speaker 1: a hundred. Obamba gave her a tribute, But she is
Speaker 1: kind of the examples, like she is healthy at a hundred,
Speaker 1: you're not generating a lot of money for the health system.
Speaker 1: So when you're sick, you generate money. But if you're healthy,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so awful. That's so well and
Speaker 1: it's such a hideous idea. Yeah, so that's part of
Speaker 1: the reason why we're self pay and part of the
Speaker 1: reason you know, twenty three is focused in that world
Speaker 1: of prevention. But it's in your hands. Then, So what
Speaker 1: do you do if you're afraid of finding out that
Speaker 1: you're predisposed potentially to something, even though you know it's
Speaker 1: not deterministic, Like how can people kind of barely up
Speaker 1: to the idea that I'm going to look at this
Speaker 1: health report and I'm going to see that there is
Speaker 1: a certain percentage chance that I may be predisposed to this.
Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is everyone's at risk for something, right,
Speaker 1: and if you look at your family history, you probably
Speaker 1: know you know various risks that you may or may
Speaker 1: not have. So the data that we have so far
Speaker 1: is that you know, it's it's people find out something
Speaker 1: like they're higher risk for Alzheimer's, and it will cause
Speaker 1: people to really think about it, and they can be
Speaker 1: anxious initially, but it returns to baseline, so it changes
Speaker 1: their life in terms of like very practical things, like
Speaker 1: in the case of Alzheimer's, people were going and buying
Speaker 1: long term care insurance, so being proactive. So one of
Speaker 1: the big things we think about is, you know, can
Speaker 1: you actually help people know how to live their life.
Speaker 1: So we're never gonna be able to tell you the
Speaker 1: day you're going to die, like people always ask that.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no no, that artic will cost a
Speaker 1: lot more money. We don't have that. But we can
Speaker 1: help you understand risks. So if you know that, for instance,
Speaker 1: you're higher risk or type you diabetes, you can really modify.
Speaker 1: You can change your eating habits or things like you know,
Speaker 1: I look at more severe conditions, even like chronic kidney disease,
Speaker 1: you can test proactively. You know. The reality is like
Speaker 1: you have to be a partner with your physician as
Speaker 1: well to know what are your risks? What are the
Speaker 1: things that you have to look for because you're not
Speaker 1: going to get screened for everything all the time, So
Speaker 1: what are the things that you want to think about?
Speaker 1: And then also how are you making intentional and decisions
Speaker 1: with how you're living your life in terms of what
Speaker 1: you eat or how you exercise or how you sleep.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be absolute, like you don't
Speaker 1: if you're higher risk or something like, you can still
Speaker 1: have the cookie. It's just a question of like moderation
Speaker 1: and being aware when that's the key. You know, there's
Speaker 1: certain people also where it's just not the right product
Speaker 1: for them, But for people who want to you know,
Speaker 1: who like knowing and want to be more proactive, then
Speaker 1: it's absolutely you know, the right thing for them. What
Speaker 1: is the quality you like least about yourself? Interesting? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm generally relatively supportive about myself. Um so I have
Speaker 1: I mean there's things that are I'm often criticized for,
Speaker 1: which is I'm not terribly punctual. I love the fact
Speaker 1: that you'd say, like, what quality you like least about yourself.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I'm good with me. Here's what other
Speaker 1: people are not good with me about, like not always punctual. Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean I I look, I think the realities you
Speaker 1: have to appreciate yourself and accept yourself. I couldn't agree
Speaker 1: with you. Yeah, so I think there's things you know,
Speaker 1: you just at some point you reach a point you're like,
Speaker 1: I just am the way I am. So anyways, I
Speaker 1: could absolutely be more punctual. I have moments where I'm unrealistic.
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting is the advocacy for self Like
Speaker 1: that to me, it's the kind of that's the headline
Speaker 1: from this is perhaps we would all be slightly more
Speaker 1: successful in our humanity if we were just to embrace
Speaker 1: the stuff that we categorically now is difficult about ourselves.
Speaker 1: Would go, well, this is part of me, and there's
Speaker 1: all this other stuff that really balances out the annoying stuff.
Speaker 1: I like the idea that you're an advocate for yourself exactly.
Speaker 1: I think that everyone has to understand their strengths and
Speaker 1: their weaknesses, and so there's things like I joke it
Speaker 1: was like like I like I don't really get dressed
Speaker 1: I'm not great at fashion. I'm and there's just certain
Speaker 1: areas we've just given up on and you just embrace
Speaker 1: it at some point and realize, like my strength and
Speaker 1: I think about this even how I run the company.
Speaker 1: I am good at thinking big, I'm good at challenging
Speaker 1: status quo um, but I'm not always great with structure.
Speaker 1: So I can hire, like I have a really great
Speaker 1: team or around me who's really good with structure, and
Speaker 1: there's ways that you can then manage that. But just
Speaker 1: recognizing like it's you know, it's it's just a little
Speaker 1: bit how I am. I have this really lovely yoga
Speaker 1: instructor who calls me the Princess of Possibilities, and I
Speaker 1: tend to always air on positive like even on people
Speaker 1: like I I strongly believe everyone's great at something. I
Speaker 1: agree with you. I agree with that. So you just
Speaker 1: have to find out what it is. And you have
Speaker 1: to and that gets back to the previous thing about adventure,
Speaker 1: like you have to then explore enough to know like
Speaker 1: what are you actually good at? Either that also takes confidence.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people if they get the
Speaker 1: impression that you're looking for is great about them, they
Speaker 1: will their lack of belief in themselves will stop you
Speaker 1: either being able to find it or stop their own
Speaker 1: inquiry into what that is. Because it's funny how a
Speaker 1: lot of people are they believe that they're not, that
Speaker 1: they don't have anything great about them. Yeah, I see
Speaker 1: that sometimes, and I see and I do. I absolutely
Speaker 1: credit my parents with us, and then particularly my mom,
Speaker 1: Like my mom is almost annoyingly so such a cheerleader,
Speaker 1: like that is so great, you look so good, that
Speaker 1: was amazing. And you know, my mom's a high school teacher,
Speaker 1: and her specialty really was always taking kids in freshman
Speaker 1: year who often lacks self confidence and and giving them
Speaker 1: confidence and just and in some ways showing like she
Speaker 1: my mom was always really critical. She's like, oh, I'll
Speaker 1: mark up your essay, like write an essay for me,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to destroy it, but you're going to
Speaker 1: rewrite it, and then you're going to give it back
Speaker 1: to me, and I'm going to mark it up more
Speaker 1: and then you're going to rewrite it again, and you're
Speaker 1: going to do that until you get an A. And
Speaker 1: so my mom was like very much of that type
Speaker 1: and like and she she's she would hold on these
Speaker 1: I mean she would show up at kids houses and
Speaker 1: be like I'm waiting. I'm waiting for that, Like we
Speaker 1: got to rewrite it. Like she was really good at
Speaker 1: helping people realize that you're full of potential. You just
Speaker 1: got to get it, like work on that. And so
Speaker 1: I do think that sense of self confidence in giving kids,
Speaker 1: it's that opportunity and anything. And I see this now
Speaker 1: with my three year old, like when she is so
Speaker 1: proud of herself when she can take off her dress
Speaker 1: and like like she said, she liked that, a little
Speaker 1: happy dance, Like she's just like like that sense of accomplishment.
Speaker 1: So like throughout kids lives, you've got to reward them
Speaker 1: like you got something done, Like that's great. What would
Speaker 1: your last meal be? I'm not a die hard food person.
Speaker 1: It can be experiential as well, you know, like the
Speaker 1: way you would be and what the vibe would be.
Speaker 1: Oh well, experiential would be everything I love again, a
Speaker 1: big event with a family style dinner. I'm not formal.
Speaker 1: There would be no organized cutlery. It would be like
Speaker 1: we have a dinner every Sunday night at my at
Speaker 1: my house. There's no organization. It's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a free for all, I love being with my friends
Speaker 1: I've been with for a long time. I'm all about
Speaker 1: quality of food and not specific type. I've had the
Speaker 1: most amazing like local organic sealery. My and my kids
Speaker 1: always make fun of me. They're like, what did you say?
Speaker 1: I was like, I just love fresh celery. Again, my
Speaker 1: whole thing is all about something that's pure, like I
Speaker 1: always hate ven years, so like food that's masks, like
Speaker 1: those little tiny bunny carrots that are tiny app and
Speaker 1: also have you seen how quickly they go off in
Speaker 1: your fridge, Like they don't survive. There's nothing better than
Speaker 1: like going into the garden and like I see my daughter,
Speaker 1: like she eats all the mint off the point it's
Speaker 1: so cute, pulling vegetables off, and like going I used
Speaker 1: to love being sent out into the garden. Mom would
Speaker 1: be like, go and get me two heads of lettuce
Speaker 1: and some new potatoes, and then that's what we'd eat.
Speaker 1: It was great. But again, also when we lived in France,
Speaker 1: we had our first garden and the neighbors across the
Speaker 1: street grew raspberries, so we were always like sneaking into
Speaker 1: their to get them to steal the raspberries. Those are
Speaker 1: the best, but they really are. In fact, stolen fruit
Speaker 1: is stolen fruit is arguably better. Definitely in your life,
Speaker 1: can you tell me something that has grown out of
Speaker 1: a personal disaster. I mean there's so many disasters. I
Speaker 1: mean I think the most public one, you know, when
Speaker 1: three me got our warning letter, oh yeah, from the
Speaker 1: f d A. And I think one thing. I was
Speaker 1: talking to someone the other day and she was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the full story, Like I had a
Speaker 1: one year old and a two and a half year
Speaker 1: old and I was getting divorced in a very public way,
Speaker 1: and then I got the FDA come after me. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's a lot to be happening at one time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know people always say, you know, you have the
Speaker 1: pie chart of your life. You know, you have your work,
Speaker 1: you have your personal life, you have your kids, Like
Speaker 1: you need something to be stable. And that was one
Speaker 1: of those moments where I remember coming home, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I don't have anything that's stable, Like there's nothing, there's nothing.
Speaker 1: And you know, I remember people saying they're like, this
Speaker 1: is time when shops like companies close up, and and
Speaker 1: again it was it was just unbelievably hard, like little
Speaker 1: kids and managing the publicity of the divorce, so all
Speaker 1: of that. But I look back and I'm like, but
Speaker 1: life is now so good, Like we got through the
Speaker 1: f d A, I hired amazing people, My children are fabulous,
Speaker 1: and you know, all things and all relationships Like you,
Speaker 1: you move on, it regenerates like you regenerate, you regenerate.
Speaker 1: And I bring up that example mostly because it was
Speaker 1: the most public, but it was it was hard, and
Speaker 1: it was hard, like I remember the first time having
Speaker 1: to go to a public event and it was like you,
Speaker 1: you know, when everyone's looking at you, Like there was
Speaker 1: an article called what was it? Twenty three and stupid
Speaker 1: and and I'm friends with the author, so as I
Speaker 1: kind of love, like, but people are all talking about you,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. No, the public aspect, like when your
Speaker 1: life is fracturing, and you add in that it is
Speaker 1: made public, that compounds the fracture, like without a shadow
Speaker 1: of it, Dan, it's quite hard to explain the idea
Speaker 1: of everybody knowing and judging your something painful that you're
Speaker 1: going through. It is difficult. It's hard, and I think
Speaker 1: it goes back to that question what I don't like
Speaker 1: about myself? Like I do really like myself and so
Speaker 1: what kept me whole in that time frame is I
Speaker 1: was like, I am very infidite of our path forward,
Speaker 1: confident that everyone's good at something, that there's a better
Speaker 1: again going back, like Princess of possibilities, Like it's all
Speaker 1: going to be okay, and so there's something for me
Speaker 1: about like when I think of my north star in
Speaker 1: life is always like it's going to be okay. And
Speaker 1: in some ways, I think if you have that attitude,
Speaker 1: then you're just riding waves. It's like surfing. You're just
Speaker 1: like like sometimes you've got a bigger wave. But there's
Speaker 1: something good in everything, Like our FDA stuff was challenging,
Speaker 1: but like there's good in everything, so you just have
Speaker 1: to find that. And again, as a forward looking individual,
Speaker 1: like I'm always focused on you know, things will be okay.
Speaker 1: That's a lovely place to conclude, things will be okay.
Speaker 1: I teamed up with twenty three and Me for today's
Speaker 1: episode with Ann you Can Hear More. Podcast hosts discussed
Speaker 1: their experience with twenty three and Me on the podcast
Speaker 1: Spit hosted by the magnificent Barunday Thurston, and if you
Speaker 1: liked his episode of Many Questions you will love his
Speaker 1: work on the Split podcast. Subscribe to it wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite podcasts so that you can be
Speaker 1: the first to listen when the new season comes out
Speaker 1: on May five. To learn more about twenty three and
Speaker 1: Me and Ann's work with a company, visit twenty three
Speaker 1: and the dot com. Mini Questions is hosted and written
Speaker 1: by Me Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy,
Speaker 1: Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver,
Speaker 1: Additional music by Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced by Me Mini Driver.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day,
Speaker 1: Lisa Castella and a Nick Oppenheim at w kPr, de
Speaker 1: La Pescador, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg. And for constantly
Speaker 1: solicited tech support Henry Driver. M And that's a wrap
Speaker 1: on a fascinating show. Did this episode inspire you to
Speaker 1: take a closer look at your health history, your genetic makeup?
Speaker 1: Who new DNA could reveal so much about our past
Speaker 1: while also holding the keys to certain health insights that
Speaker 1: may impact our future. I continue to be inspired by
Speaker 1: these stories, and I hope you do as well. Catch
Speaker 1: you next time. Listen to Spit, an original podcast from
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and twenty three in the on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcast