1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

2
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 2: The crypto industry is like the wild wild West. To

3
00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 2: SEC chair Gary Gensler.

4
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 3: The wild West of the crypto markets rife with non compliance,

5
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,239
Speaker 3: where investors have put hard earned assets at risk, and

6
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 3: highly speculative asset class such growth and rapid change also

7
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 3: means more possibility for wrongdoing. Is the cop on the beat?

8
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,599
Speaker 3: We must be able to meet the match of bad actors.

9
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 2: Gensler told lawmakers five months ago that the agency had

10
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 2: to expand to protect investors against a crypto industry rife

11
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 2: with non compliance. So what has the sec accomplished in

12
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 2: its six years of trying to regulate crypto? Joining me

13
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 2: to answer that question is securities law expert James Park,

14
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 2: a professor at UCI Law School. What has the sec

15
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 2: accomplished so far? And it's battle over crypto.

16
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 4: It's been a long process, and I think the SEC

17
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 4: has learned a lot over this period and it has

18
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 4: developed its positions gradually over time. One criticism I think

19
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 4: of the SEC is that its positions may not have

20
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,479
Speaker 4: been entirely consistent. But I think it's clear now that

21
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 4: the SEC views many crypto assets as being securities and

22
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 4: believes that it can regulate a substantial number of not

23
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 4: only crypto assets, but also exchanges exchanges where these crypto

24
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 4: assets have been trading, and has disagreed with some of

25
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 4: the determinations by these exchanges that the crypto assets trading

26
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 4: on their marketplaces are not securities. So we have an

27
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 4: SEC that believes that a significant number of crypto assets

28
00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 4: are securities. We have some industry members who believe the

29
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 4: SEC's position may be too broad, and there's also a

30
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 4: criticism that the SEC has not done enough to provide

31
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,040
Speaker 4: clarity to the industry. I think that's another major theme

32
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 4: that we've seen over the last four or five years.

33
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 2: What federal agencies are sort of jocking to play a

34
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 2: role in policing crypto In addition.

35
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 4: To the SEC, the other major candidate is the CFTC.

36
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 4: If crypto assets are primarily commodities, and that's typically under

37
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,920
Speaker 4: the jurisdiction of the CFTC. We also have broader issues

38
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 4: relating to financial regulation, such as money laundering, which would

39
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,399
Speaker 4: be the province of various federal banking regulators. So there

40
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 4: are a number of different federal agencies that could regulate

41
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 4: crypto But I think the SDC has been in the

42
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 4: lead in certain respects and is asserting that many of

43
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 4: these crypto acsets are securities and that these exchanges are

44
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 4: under its jurisdiction.

45
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 2: The SEC has filed about fifty five enforcement lawsuits over

46
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 2: cryptocurrencies since Gary Gensler took over. That's according to data

47
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 2: from Cornerstone Research. How has it fared in those cases?

48
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 4: Generally generally fared fairly well. It's one of the vast

49
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 4: majority of the cases. But that may also reflect that

50
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,919
Speaker 4: the SEC is picking cases that are favorable to its position.

51
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 4: It may be picking cases involving egregious facts where there

52
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 4: is a clear fraud and in cases like that, judges

53
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,840
Speaker 4: tend to be sympathetic to the SEC's position. As it

54
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 4: gets to bringing cases against entities that are not frauds,

55
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 4: I think that its task is a little bit more difficult,

56
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 4: and I think it's getting to that point in a

57
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 4: number of cases where you don't have clear evidence of fraud,

58
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 4: and so there's going to be questions about whether its

59
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 4: position is valid or not.

60
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 2: Is the SEC embarking on a specific strategy when we

61
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 2: see that it is suing coinbase and two other platforms.

62
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 2: Is there a strategy involved here, Yes, I.

63
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 4: Think the SEC is trying to bring big impact cases

64
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 4: and exchanges are key centers of activity. They're critical to

65
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 4: the development of crypto assets because you need a marketplace

66
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 4: where these assets are traded frequently in order to have

67
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 4: confidence in the integrity of their prices. So exchanges are

68
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,480
Speaker 4: a very important part of the infrastructure. If you want

69
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 4: crypto assets to become established as a valid asset class,

70
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 4: that would bring more investors in. And so the SEC

71
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 4: is trying to assert its domain over these exchanges, and

72
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 4: for good reasons. You know. In the background, of course,

73
00:04:55,279 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 4: are the scandals at FTX and buyinand those scandals have

74
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 4: given reason for the SEC to come in and regulate

75
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,600
Speaker 4: exchanges and has taught the SEC a number of lessons

76
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 4: with respect of the problems that can come up in

77
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,720
Speaker 4: various crypto asset exchanges.

78
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 2: Do you think that the collapse of FTX and the

79
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:23,360
Speaker 2: criminal charges and finance do they sort of support Genstler's

80
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 2: statement that it's the wild wild West.

81
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 4: They support I think the case for regulation. They support

82
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,479
Speaker 4: the need for regulation. Not all of these changes are

83
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,920
Speaker 4: the same, and so you know, I could see coinbase

84
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 4: making the arguments that we're not the same as FTX

85
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 4: and binus. We are making good faith efforts to comply.

86
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,839
Speaker 4: We're a public corporation, you know, we sold securities pursuing

87
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 4: to a registration statement approved by the SEC that described

88
00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,679
Speaker 4: very frankly what our business is, and so we're different.

89
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 4: We're different, and we are making substantial efforts to comply

90
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 4: and to prevent market manipulation. The SEC, to my understanding,

91
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 4: has not found evidence of market manipulation on Coinbase at

92
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 4: this time, at least it's not alleged in their complaints,

93
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,840
Speaker 4: and so the key for defendants like Coinbase is to

94
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 4: establish that they are different from FTX and buy it.

95
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,560
Speaker 4: On the other hand, I think the SEC can make

96
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 4: the case that there are certain structural issues that we

97
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,839
Speaker 4: saw in FTX and binance that lead us to be

98
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,359
Speaker 4: more wary of exchanges, even those like Coinbase that we

99
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 4: had approved a registration statement for. So I think that's

100
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,840
Speaker 4: one of the issues that will continue to see being

101
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 4: litigated and developed over the next year.

102
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 2: Everyone in crypto is watching that case against Coinbase in particular.

103
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 2: What's the SEC's case there.

104
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 4: They are arguing that Coinbase is a securities exchange Under

105
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 4: the Securities Exchange Act of nineteen thirty four, the SEC

106
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 4: has the power to regulate exchanges, and a securities exchange

107
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 4: must register with the Securities and Exchange Commissions. That's the

108
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 4: key issue here, and the question as to whether or

109
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 4: not something that the securities exchange is going to mainly

110
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 4: boil down to whether there are securities trading on coinbase wan.

111
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 4: Coinbase's defense is that we did rigorous evaluation and assessment

112
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 4: of the crypto assets that we allow to be traded

113
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 4: on our exchange, and we concluded that none of those

114
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 4: crypto assets are securities. Therefore, we do not have to

115
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 4: register with the SEC as a securities exchange. The SEC

116
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 4: has taken the position in its complaint that there are

117
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 4: at least ten or so crypto assets trading on coinbase

118
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 4: that are securities under the HOWI test. Therefore, this is

119
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 4: an exchange that must register with US, and that you're

120
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 4: violating the securities laws if you continue to operate without registration.

121
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 2: Now, Coinbase is going to ask a federal judge this

122
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 2: month to dismiss the SEC's lawsuit. Do you think that

123
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 2: there's a chance that a judge would do that, or

124
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 2: might a judge weight.

125
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 4: There's always a chance, but I think it is unlikely

126
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 4: that a judge will grant the motion to dismiss that

127
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 4: this stage given the complexity of the issues involved. One

128
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 4: of the questions is whether or not the crypto assets

129
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 4: identified by the sec are actually securities, and that typically

130
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,320
Speaker 4: is going to require a case by case determination evaluating

131
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 4: each of these crypto assets based upon the HOWI test,

132
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,439
Speaker 4: and some of that work may require discovery and may

133
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 4: require looking close lead into these crypto assets and evaluating

134
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 4: the evidence, which is typically not something that a district

135
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 4: court will do on a motion to dismiss. Coinbase has

136
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,319
Speaker 4: advanced a very narrow interpretation of Howie. If they were

137
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 4: to prevail on that very narrow definition of Howie, then

138
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,440
Speaker 4: perhaps the judge could say that I can conclude without

139
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 4: further discovery that all of these crypto assets are actually securities,

140
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,239
Speaker 4: and that's a plausible outcome, but I think it's unlikely.

141
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 4: That's just my opinion that may not necessarily turn out

142
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 4: to be correct, but this is what courts are for.

143
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,480
Speaker 4: They decide whether or not interpretations of tests are appropriate

144
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 4: or not. There's also another issue with respect to the

145
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 4: major questions doctrine and whether or not this may involve

146
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 4: such a large expansion of the SEC's jurisdiction to run

147
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 4: a foul of a doctrine that the Supreme Court created

148
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 4: over the last year or so that prohibits expansive interpretations

149
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,480
Speaker 4: of agency power with respect to that particular issue. I

150
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,320
Speaker 4: think that there is more fact finding that would be

151
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 4: used on that issue, And there's also a good argument

152
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 4: the SEC has that that doctrin has not really been

153
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 4: applied to enforcement action. I think there's another argument that

154
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 4: the crypto asset market that the SEC is seeking to

155
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,679
Speaker 4: regulate is not substantial enough a part of our economy

156
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 4: to fall under that particular doctrine. You know, if you

157
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 4: look at the value of all the crypto assets out there,

158
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 4: you know, the total values maybe around a trillion dollars

159
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 4: or so. But remember, the SEC is not asserting it

160
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,800
Speaker 4: can regulate all trillion dollars worth of crypto assets, because

161
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 4: it's competed that bitcoin is not a security, and bitcoin

162
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,959
Speaker 4: represents the vast majority, the maybe supermajority, of the value

163
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 4: of crypto that is out there, and so we're talking

164
00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,720
Speaker 4: about a relatively small amount of value that the SEC

165
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 4: is trying to start its jurisdiction over and so it

166
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 4: may not fall under the major questions doctrine.

167
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 2: Coming up next is the Coinbase case likely to reach

168
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. I'm Drew and Grosso and you're listening

169
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,960
Speaker 2: to Bloomberg. I've been talking to Professor James Park of

170
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,680
Speaker 2: UCLA Law School about the SEC's fight to regulate crypto. Jim,

171
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 2: the SEC's lawsuit against Coinbase has a long way to go.

172
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: But do you think it's a case that you could

173
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,839
Speaker 2: see ending up at the Supreme Court.

174
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 4: Yes, I think it could. You know, Coinbase has the resources,

175
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 4: they have excellent legal representation, and these cases involved very

176
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 4: important legal issues that have not gone up to the

177
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 4: Supreme Court in some time. You know how he was

178
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 4: decided more than fifty years ago, and there could be

179
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 4: reason for the Supreme Court to weigh in on the

180
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,120
Speaker 4: definition of a security. I also don't see the SEC

181
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 4: backing down from its position. It just filed a case

182
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 4: in November against another exchange cracket on November twentieth, making

183
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 4: pretty much the same arguments that is made against Coinbase

184
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 4: and Binance. So it is committed to its position as well,

185
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,200
Speaker 4: and so we could see litigation proceed all the way

186
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 4: up to the US Supreme Court.

187
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,080
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Finance's problems. It was criminally charged in

188
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,319
Speaker 2: November and admitted to violating laws that require financial companies

189
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,640
Speaker 2: to have anti money laundering controls, and its founder pleaded

190
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 2: guilty and faces eighteen months in prison. Do those factors

191
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,679
Speaker 2: play into the SEC's case against Finance.

192
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 4: The SEC did file motion in the District Court making

193
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 4: note of that conviction and what it does. I think

194
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,559
Speaker 4: it highlights some of the dangers of exchanges and it

195
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 4: puts Finance in an unfavorable life. I mean that could

196
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 4: be a background consideration in the district court assessment of

197
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 4: the case. However, these securities law issues are different. They

198
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 4: are different than issues relating to money laundering. The issue

199
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 4: of whether or not the crypto assets are securities are distinct. Also,

200
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 4: the sec as allegations of market manipulation, which are still

201
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,720
Speaker 4: being litigated as well. I'm having said that it's a

202
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 4: bit of an uphill battle for a defendant who has

203
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,679
Speaker 4: pleted guilty to criminal charges on one set of regulatory

204
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 4: issues in terms of litigating another set of issues before

205
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 4: the district court. And you know, Coinbase can't be extremely

206
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 4: happy about the fact that Binance is making pretty much

207
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 4: the same arguments as coinbase, and so that there's a

208
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 4: possibility that the District Court in DC, which is deciding

209
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,479
Speaker 4: the finance case, could look unfavorably upon finance and securities

210
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,080
Speaker 4: law theories which are the same as coinbases, and so

211
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 4: there could be a greater risk of a adverse decision

212
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 4: in the decail court that could in turn have some

213
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 4: influence on the way the coinbase litigation is happening, which

214
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 4: is in the Southern District of Now. I do think

215
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,439
Speaker 4: the district court judges will look independently at these cases

216
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 4: and assess them the arguments for what they are. But

217
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 4: it is worth noting that Coinbase in Binance are pretty

218
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 4: much making the same arguments against the SEC in terms

219
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 4: of the legal arguments.

220
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 2: How will the decisions in those three cases affect the

221
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: SEC's push to regulate crypto.

222
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 4: They will have a very significant impact, and I think

223
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 4: the most immediate impact is that they will give three

224
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 4: more district court judges the chance to tell us more

225
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,479
Speaker 4: about the howie, can we have a couple of dueling decisions,

226
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 4: as you know, in the Southern District of New York

227
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 4: and the Ripple and terraform cases coming to a different conclusions.

228
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 4: And now we have three more judges who are going

229
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 4: to have to decide whether or not particular cryptoascids are

230
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 4: securities and apply to how we test in doing so,

231
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 4: and so that, you know, gives us the opportunity to

232
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 4: see which interpretation is more persuasive or looking more persuasive

233
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 4: to the federal District Court judges. And you know, if

234
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 4: you see the district court judges overwhelmingly tilting one way

235
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 4: versus the other, then that can give momentum to one

236
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 4: side over the other.

237
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 2: And where does the effort to launch exchange traded funds

238
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 2: that whole bitcoin, Where does that effort stand?

239
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 4: Mind is staying. The sec is considering the petition, and

240
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 4: my sense is that it's fairly likely that it will

241
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 4: be granted. And if that's the case, then we're going

242
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 4: to have a bitcoin exchange traded fund. As I was,

243
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 4: you know, in the airport recently, I saw an advertisement

244
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 4: for Great Scale and the Gray Scale ETF. So they

245
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 4: seem fairly confident that this is happening, and they, you know,

246
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 4: are obviously probably in touch with the SDC. I mean,

247
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 4: that's why bitcoin has rallied and that's been a bright

248
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 4: spot in the stew acid industries. We see bitcoin the

249
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 4: price increased from around twenty five thousand dollars to around

250
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 4: forty five thousand dollars and the last four months or so,

251
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 4: with that additional value, that may attract more investors into

252
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 4: crypto assets. More generally, the fact that there's an ETF

253
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 4: may increase the legitimacy of cryptoacid as an asset class,

254
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 4: and that is certainly something that is a positive development

255
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 4: for the crypto acid industry. On the other hand, remember

256
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 4: the sec though, has always distinguished Bitcoin from other crypto assets,

257
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 4: and so the fact that we have a Bitcoin ETF

258
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 4: does not mean that other crypto assets that are securities

259
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 4: are going to escape a regulation. That does not mean

260
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 4: that this crypto assets other than bitcoin have any real

261
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 4: economic value. And so I think that it is something

262
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 4: that is a very interesting dynamic that we'll see over

263
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four what the impact of that is and

264
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 4: whether or not that's going to spark more interesting crypto assets.

265
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 2: And by the end of twenty twenty four, do you

266
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 2: think that there'll be more certainty about which agency regulates

267
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 2: crypto It's.

268
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 4: A good question. I don't know if we'll get more certainty.

269
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 4: To be frank with you, I think the litigation process

270
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 4: is going to move slowly. And we are coming up

271
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 4: on an election. There's some time before we get into

272
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 4: that election season, but administrative agencies may slow down what

273
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 4: they're doing as we get into the summer and into

274
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 4: the falls. You know, we don't know who's going to

275
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 4: win the election. That could also result in changes in policies,

276
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 4: changes in priorities. So there's a lot of uncertainty over

277
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 4: the next year or so that makes it difficult to

278
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 4: predict whether or not one agency is going to sort

279
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 4: of rise further to the top.

280
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: Jim, thanks so much for helping us understand all these

281
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,879
Speaker 2: crypto lawsuits it's going on. That's Professor James Park of

282
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 2: UCLA Law School coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show.

283
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 2: Lawsuits in the fight against anti Semitism on college campuses.

284
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.

285
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,360
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

286
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 2: Instead of studying for finals like his classmates, University of

287
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania student Ayal Jacobe went to Congress on December fifth

288
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 2: for a press conference on the anti Semitism at the campus.

289
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 1: Penn's ambivalence fuels the crisis that has shattered my academic

290
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 1: sanctuary policies meant to safeguard us have become hollow promises,

291
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: and let us be clear, if they failed Jewish students

292
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 1: today tomorrow, they will fail the rest of us.

293
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 2: On the same day, Yakobe and another student also sued Penn,

294
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 2: claiming the school fostered a hostile environment that left them

295
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 2: feeling unsafe in class or crossing the campus. Their lawsuit

296
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 2: is one of several filed in recent weeks against universities

297
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 2: by students citing Title six of a Civil Rights Act

298
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: of nineteen sixty four. Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter

299
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 2: David Voriakis, David, is there any kind of measure of

300
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 2: just how much anti Semitism Jewish students are facing on

301
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 2: campuses these days?

302
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 5: Several Jewish organizations stay that the anti semitism they have

303
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,879
Speaker 5: seen before October seventh and since the October seventh attack

304
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 5: by HMAS on Israel is unprecedented, and the numbers have

305
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 5: spiked dramatically in the last couple of months. So by

306
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 5: various measures, there's different ways to look at it, but

307
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 5: the number of anti Semitic incidents that Jewish students have

308
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 5: seen has dramatically increased, and the Anti Defamation League has

309
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 5: said something like more than half of American Jewish students

310
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 5: have seen some type of anti Semitic behavior.

311
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 2: And what about Muslim, Arab and Palestinian students? Is Islamophobia

312
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 2: prevalent on campuses today?

313
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 5: They also are facing a significant increase in Islamophobia. And

314
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 5: there's an organization known as care caai R as the

315
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 5: Council of American Islamic Relations, and they say that the

316
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 5: number of Islamophobia incidents has also dramatically increased.

317
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: So tell us about aal Yakobe University of Pennsylvania student

318
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 2: to suit his university.

319
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 5: Al Yakhobe is a senior at ten and he had

320
00:20:54,359 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 5: started to complain to university administrators before October seventh about

321
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 5: anti semitism on campus. In particular, in late September, there

322
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,880
Speaker 5: was a writer's conference of Palestinian writers that's been roundly

323
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 5: criticized as sponsoring anti Semitic speakers, and he sent a

324
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 5: number of emails and letters, He organized petition drives and

325
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 5: had very little success with pen administrators, and he was

326
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 5: quite frustrated after the Hamas attack. He continued to complain

327
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 5: about a spike and antisemitism on campus, and he said

328
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 5: that he felt quite unsafe on campus, that he was

329
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,239
Speaker 5: in the Hillel building on campus when there was a

330
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 5: bomb threat that was not announced, and he felt that

331
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 5: the university was not enforcing its policies that were already

332
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 5: on the books to prevent this type of conduct and speech.

333
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 5: And so that's what led him to go to Congress

334
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 5: on December fifth for a press conference. And this was

335
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 5: on the same day that the three university presidents testified

336
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 5: to Congress, and that testimony went badly for a couple

337
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 5: of them. But during that press conference on December fifth,

338
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 5: he spoke about what he called the chilling landscape of

339
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 5: hatred and hostility at Penn. He said, despite what my

340
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 5: university says, I do not feel safe. Let me be clear,

341
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 5: I do not feel safe. He then told me that

342
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 5: about a week later, he had already gotten hundreds of

343
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 5: threats because of his outspokenness at that press conference.

344
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: So he filed a lawsuit against Penn, he and another student,

345
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: and that's one of several lawsuits filed in recent weeks

346
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: against universities, and they're citing Title six of the Civil

347
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: Rights Act. Has Title six been used in this context before.

348
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 5: Title six has been used in different contexts, often by

349
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 5: African American students, But it's a new development that Jewish

350
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 5: students have gotten so organized and have really concentrated on

351
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 5: how they could use this law to abate the spike

352
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 5: in anti Semitism on campus. Title six is enforced by

353
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 5: the Office of Civil Rights at the Education Department, and

354
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 5: so it can either be enforced by the government itself

355
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 5: through the Education Department's Office of Civil Rights, or in

356
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 5: what is sort of a novel twist that we wrote about,

357
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 5: there are a series of private lawsuits that have been

358
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 5: filed that seek a potentially the same goal, which is

359
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 5: to force colleges and universities to use the policies that

360
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 5: are on the books that prevent the sort of harassment

361
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 5: that Jewish students are now complaining about.

362
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: Well, for the University of Pennsylvania, what kind of policies

363
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: does the university have that the two students are looking

364
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: for them to enforce.

365
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 5: Well, for instance, there's a code of conduct that seeks

366
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 5: to prevent harassment and also to prevent a hostile environment

367
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 5: based on someone's beliefs. So they want the university to

368
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 5: enforce those codes of conduct, and the remedy that they're seeking,

369
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 5: for instance, is to ask a judge to order PEN

370
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 5: to fire faculty and administrators that are responsible for what

371
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 5: they say is the anti Semitic abuse permeating the school.

372
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 5: They also want a judge to order PEN to suspend

373
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 5: or expel students engaged in such conduct. They're also looking

374
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 5: forward financial damages.

375
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: Are they asking the school to suspend or expel students

376
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: who protest against Israel or in support of the Palestinians.

377
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 5: No, this is a very interesting area of the law,

378
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 5: and what they say they're interested in putting it end too,

379
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 5: is harassment, either physical harassment, physical threats, or verbal statements

380
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 5: that are perceived as threats. So mere protests themselves are

381
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 5: not subject to this type of litigation. What they're trying

382
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 5: to do is prevent the type of speech that is

383
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 5: seen as harassing or intimidating speech and conduct. And so

384
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 5: that's a bit of a gray area, obviously, and it's

385
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: open to interpretation. But one of the aspects of this

386
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 5: type of litigation is a question about just what is

387
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 5: anti semitism and what constitutes anti Semitic speech, And there's

388
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 5: an international interpretation of anti semitism that if you deny

389
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 5: the ability of Israel to exist, or you say that

390
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 5: Israel should not exist, then that's considered anti semitism. That's actionable.

391
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: And the expression from the River to the Sea is

392
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: very controversial. Some see it as antisemitic, others do not.

393
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: How do the plaintiffs here view it.

394
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 5: So the lawyers that are assuing believe that that is antisemitic.

395
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 5: It is open to interpretation whether the Palestinian supporters who

396
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 5: say that are in fact advocating the elimination of Israel

397
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 5: or not. And so this is a very difficult area

398
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: that's going to be resolved in the months ahead, as

399
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 5: dis litigation moves forward, and as the Department of Education's

400
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 5: Office of Civil Rights negotiates with schools to reach civil

401
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 5: settlements in their open investigation of schools that they're looking

402
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 5: at for possible anti semitism or Islamophobia.

403
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: And the big threat is that schools could lose federal funding.

404
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: Does that happen often?

405
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 5: It's a major threat that the government has because Title

406
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 5: six of the Civil Rights Act essentially bars discrimination in

407
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 5: several areas for agencies or programs that receive federal funding. Now,

408
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 5: the threat is that that funding would be removed because

409
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 5: of discrimination. In reality, it's very rare for the Education Department,

410
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 5: for instance, to actually withhold funding, and schools are aware

411
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 5: that it's a very bad practice to be considered to

412
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 5: be discriminatory by the Education Department, and so they generally

413
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 5: come to the bargaining table and reach agreements to change

414
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: their practices.

415
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: It's been publicized a lot that displeased donors may pose

416
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: more of a financial threat to the schools.

417
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 5: Right The Title six lawsuits and the Title six investigations

418
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 5: by the Office of Civil Rights are just one way

419
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 5: to try to change behavior on campuses. There's also pressure

420
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 5: from alumni who are trying to essentially name in shame

421
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: schools to protect Jewish students. And there are powerful and influential,

422
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: wealthy donors who have either directly withheld their gifts or

423
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 5: they have threatened to do so. So there's a sort

424
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 5: of multi pronged attack in this effort in the last

425
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 5: two or three months to try to protect Jewish students

426
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 5: on campus.

427
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: This lawsuit, is it expected to continue to trial or

428
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: is the Office of Civil Rights going to take it over?

429
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: How does it work?

430
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 5: The lawsuits that are filed under Title six are in

431
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 5: federal district court, and so far there have been several

432
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 5: schools that have been sued, including New York and cal

433
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 5: Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon as well as Pen, and there's

434
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 5: more cases expected against other schools, including Harvard and Columbia.

435
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 5: They will proceed as civil litigation under the federal rules

436
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 5: of evidence. As in any civil libation, They'll either go

437
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 5: to trial or they will settle. What the government is

438
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: doing is something separate. Those are administrative cases that will

439
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 5: not be filed in federal court, and so because their

440
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 5: administrative cases, it's more likely that they will work more

441
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 5: directly and cooperatively with the schools to make changes.

442
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: Is the situation getting better with these lawsuits or with

443
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: the publicity brought to this issue, or is it the

444
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: same getting worse? How do the students see it?

445
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 5: I spoke with lawyers who work for prominent law firms

446
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 5: who are helping to collect student complaints then get detailed

447
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 5: information about just what happens on campus, and they said

448
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 5: that the pace of complaints has been slowing a bit,

449
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 5: but really it is too soon to tell what the

450
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 5: outcome will be of these various lawsuits.

451
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being on the show, David. That's

452
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Legal reporter David Voriacis And in news connected to

453
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: the controversy over antisemitism on college campuses, Claudine Gay is

454
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: stepping down as president of Harvard University, ending a brief

455
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: and tumultuous tenure marred by allegations of plagiarism and the

456
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: controversy over antisemitism. Her exit is a dramatic about face

457
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: from her acclaimed start in July as Harvard's first black president.

458
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: Even as recently as December twelfth, she enjoyed the unanimous

459
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: backing of the university's governing council. However, since then, new

460
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: questions have surfaced about her academic work, and a donor

461
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: revolt over the school handling of antisemitism has only worsened.

462
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: It's the second departure in recent weeks of an Ivy

463
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: League president following a House committee hearing on antisemitism on

464
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: US college campuses. Hen President Liz McGill resigned four days

465
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: after that Congressional hearing. And that's it for this edition

466
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: of the Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can always get

467
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law Podcast. You

468
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at www

469
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: dot bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law, and remember

470
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every weeknight at

471
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: ten pm Wall Street Time. I'm Junie Grosso and you're

472
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: listening to Bloomberg