WEBVTT - Skyline Drive: Trickle-Down Astrology 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:15.080 Warning. The following episode contains discussion of Ronald Reagan, pro wrestlers, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.319 Ronald Reagan talking to pro wrestlers Johnny Carson, and a 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:23.800 disastrous late night pizza party. Also astrology sensitive listeners. Keep 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:35.080 your tones handy. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:38.080 Sometimes I got games. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.360 Sometimes I'm mad shot, Sometimes I'm mad lame. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:41.560 Sometimes I'm mad flying. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.240 Sometimes I'm so flying the bay. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:43.919 I'm hellafly. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:45.440 Sometimes I'll get fraud and. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.520 It'll be televised. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.400 Okay, we're gonna start this out with another slideshow, and 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:58.800 this time it's about hul Cogan. This is hul Cogan's 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.320 Rock and wrestling. As a kid, I knew everyone was 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.920 supposed to like Haulkogan, and sometimes I even pretended to 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:10.000 like Hulkogan, even though I was not a fan, but 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.280 I often watched his cartoons on Saturday mornings because they 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.080 were on. This is the only rock and wrestling episode 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.680 I remember. The President wants to speak with you. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.920 Yes, sir, your country is depending on you, Holster. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.720 Don't let us down in it. The President like this cartoon. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.440 Ronald Reagan asked Hulkogan to go to space to rescue 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.560 astronauts before a shuttle explodes. The cartoon is seared in 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:44.679 my brain because it aired not long after the Challenger disaster. Well, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.720 I'll what was it like being the first wrestler in space? 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.000 I tell you, bang, it was more awesome than a 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:51.880 combat zong. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.840 I also remember thinking, why do they think Hulkogan can 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.640 probably open a cargo bay door? Because I mean, I 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:05.040 know he's strong, But even in cartoon form, this seemed dumb. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.600 And I was seven at the time. But maybe the 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.480 makers of Rock and Wrestling thought they were doing something 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.120 to help calm kids' nerves. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:18.919 And I want to say something to the school children 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.240 of America. I know it's hard to understand, but sometimes 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:23.720 painful things like this happen. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.280 That's the actual Ronald Gray again. The day after the 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.679 Challenger exploded, our first grade teacher wheeled a TV into 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.400 our classroom so the President could talk to us directly. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.880 It's all part of the process of exploration and discovery. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.839 It's all part of taking a chance of expanding man's horizons. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:52.519 The future doesn't belong to the fainthearted belongs to the brave. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.680 The future belongs to the brave. Those words embody America 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.960 right and to preserve hope in the face of something 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:16.040 so devastating, so visible. Anyway, what does any of this 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.840 have to do with us? Well, the Challenger wasn't the 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.000 only time Reagan was thinking about the intersection of space 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.800 and the future. That's right, I'm talking about astrology. And 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.680 it turns out in the nineteen eighties there was a 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.320 full on astrology scandal in the Reagan White House. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.400 I don't mean to offend anyone who does, but believe 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.720 in it, or engage you believe in it. 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:56.880 From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Mongay's Shittiku. Welcome to 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:34.960 Skyline Drive, chapter one. When God's powerful word came. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.279 Let's start with the part that is the most controversial. 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.599 A few months ago I told the American people I 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.240 did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.760 best intentions still tell me that's true, But the facts 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.520 and the evidence tell me it is. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:57.680 Not. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.919 Thing about Ronald Reagan is that he was unknowable, like 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.880 frustratingly unknowable. When the famed biographer Edmund Morris got three 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.479 million dollars to do an official biography, he spent fourteen 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.160 years interviewing and shadowing Reagan, but when he turned in 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.800 his book, he switched it from a biography to fiction. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.080 And when he was asked why he did that with 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.520 his manuscript on sixty Minutes, Morris said, he was truly 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.919 one of the strangest men who ever lived. Nobody around 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:35.080 him understood him. I every person I interviewed, almost without exception, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.680 eventually would say, you know, I could never really figure 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.400 him out. Think about that. Fourteen years of access and 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.280 Morris couldn't figure out how to accurately write about the 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.120 man and what he stood for. And maybe that's why 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.719 my mom and dad had such different opinions of Reagan. 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.080 To my dad, a newly minted American, Reagan was proof 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.440 that anyone could make it in America, an actor becoming president. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.280 I mean, that's the optimism of an immigrant, someone who 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.000 genuinely believed his son's potential was limitless in this new land. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.000 But to my mom, who was not a fan of 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.200 his policies, Reagan's supposed an interest in astrology made her 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.520 like him more because it made him more like us. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.880 And Reagan's interest in astrology was just this thing I 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.440 always knew about growing up, but as I grew older, 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.240 I began to question it, like it kind of seemed 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:36.360 too outlandish. To be true. So I asked my pal 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.720 Mary if she could find anything more concrete about this 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.880 whole story. Actually, before we dive into the controversat I 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.960 just wanted to ask you. I feel really lucky to 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.640 have you in this project, but I'm curious why you 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.560 did it, because you don't believe in astrology. 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:54.400 Well, you're very persuasive. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:59.719 I guess We're sitting in a studio in Midtown and 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.960 I'm laughing because it's true. Mary was not convinced when 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.040 I pitched this tour, but I can. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.000 I can learn about things without believing in them. I 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.680 figure it's an opportunity to go down a path I 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.200 would not ordinarily go down. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:14.240 Do you know what your sign is? 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.120 I found out I'm a cancer. I thought I was 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.840 a Gemini. Oh really, turns out I'm a cancer. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.560 So I wroped you into this thing with astrology, and 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.800 then I said, hey, I really want to look into 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:25.520 Ronald Reagan. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.640 You did, and I like Ronald Reagan about as much 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.240 as I like astrology. I grew up being terrified of 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.040 Ronald Reagan. I remember being like three years old and 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.920 seeing him on the TV and being genuinely frightened. My 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.080 parents were dragging me to defense spending protests during the eighties, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.239 so I had a very different experience. So it didn't 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.720 seem to really add up my understanding of Ronald Reagan 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.600 and my understanding of astrology. That didn't really make any sense. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:55.960 And so that was why I figured it would be 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.880 really interesting to find out what actually happened. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.960 So, like, what was the sort of controversy that made 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.640 everyone suddenly start talking about it? 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.400 So this is really juicy. There's this guy Don Reagan 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.960 who had been chief of staff for Ronald Reagan, and 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:12.760 he had been the chairman of Merrill Lynch for a 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.080 long time. He was Treasury Secretary. He was like the 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.520 architect of Reaganomics. And then he became chief of staff 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.040 and he left the White House. He got kicked out, 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.960 and he basically was thrown out in disgrace from his job. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.200 And so he turned around and wrote a tell all 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.680 book in nineteen eighty eight, called for the record, and 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.480 apparently he got a million dollar advance, which was huge 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:34.160 money at the time. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:35.079 Million dollars. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.480 Yeah, but he made this huge revelation that while he 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.800 was in the White House, Nancy Reagan was asking him 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:48.160 to change the president's schedule based on astrological advice from 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.319 a friend, quote quote. He even said he had to 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.000 keep a color coded calendar of like good days, auspicious days, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.240 bad days, if he days for the president's travel. His 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:04.079 public appearance says all of this, and the press went crazy. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.520 The Reagan's and their stars. Astrologically speaking, did Donald Reagan 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.319 get his ex bosses Capricorn? That is goat? Or is 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:12.520 it all a load of Taurus? 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:13.880 If President Richard Nixon? 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.440 Towards the end, the claim was I am not a 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:16.640 crook with Ronald Reagan. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.120 Last week it was more like I am. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:18.640 Not a nut? 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.720 Is that like a gift from heaven for a cartoon? 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:21.520 It's a story like. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.760 That, Yeah, it is. I consider that. 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.480 It's just it's too good, too good to be true. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.680 There's a Reagan library. They have archives, and I thought, well, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.880 maybe there's something in there about astrology. Turns out they 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:43.559 actually have a finding aid labeled astrology. Oh really, yeah, yeah, 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.400 because they have files that are, you know, touch on 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.080 the scandal. I asked them if I could see them, 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.280 and they said that they would have to take some 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.280 time to take all the staples out, but then they 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.240 could scan them and send them to me, and a 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.719 lot of it was just newspaper clippings, you know, cartoons 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.079 when it came out. Yeah, And there were transcripts of 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:07.600 press conferences where the White House spokespeople were just getting slammed. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.280 All the reporters wanted to talk about was astrology. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:11.000 What is the deal? 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.040 You know, are they just deciding everything based on this? 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:15.920 You know, what can you tell us? And they didn't 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.599 want to answer. But what I thought was really fascinating 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.680 was they had saved all of this correspondence from the 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:26.360 religious right, basically evangelical Christians who had helped elect Ronald Reagan. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.200 Evangelical Christians do not like astrology. This is May twenty seventh, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.640 nineteen eighty eight, at the height of the controversy from 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.439 Don Reagan's book. This radio preacher named George Otis, who 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.360 was a friend of the Reagans, wrote directly to the 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.800 White House. Dear mister President, you've been a great chief 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.960 of state. You will recall how in October nineteen seventy 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.640 God spoke directly to you through myself there in your 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.440 Sacramento home. When God's powerful word came you were to 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.520 become president of the United States. This May have been 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.800 the most remarkable visitation from the Lord of any president 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.959 in history. You were handpicked for leadership in one of 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:05.480 our nation's most pivotal hours. Wow, no pressure, right, And 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:07.600 so he was saying, I beg you to renounce the 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.000 practice of astrology in the White House. To make a 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.199 statement now would be an act of courage and pleasing 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.520 to God. But if you fail to do so, you 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.600 legitimize astrology and the occult and set our nation on 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.640 a collision course with God. 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.680 I don't know why, but I always sort of bristle 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.120 when I hear things like this. There is such hypocrisy 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.240 on what sort of magical thinking we're okay with as 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.520 a country. Like if a televangelist goes into tongues and 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.520 prophesizes that Reagan has to be the next president because 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.720 God told him, that is totally okay. Western miracles don't 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.840 bother the base, But if an astrologer makes a prediction 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.360 that's blasphemy. It just feels silly that a president should 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.040 be lauded for believing in one of those ideas but 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:01.719 threatened for believing in the other. It reminds me of 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.640 this feeling I had as a kid. Totally the opposite 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.040 of my dad's optimism about who was allowed to be president. 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.000 The fact that I was born brown and Hindu, that 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:17.840 I had a name that was unpronounceable, it seemingly crippled 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.600 my chances from the start. I mean, the Indian kids 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.400 who were ten years older than me and wanted to 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:27.720 be politicians, the Bobby Jindles and Nicky Hayley's, they always 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.760 seem to convert to Christianity and change their names along 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:31.120 the way. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:32.960 You know, I wish I could tell you I had 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:33.720 this son to epiphany. 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.360 There was no moment on that road to Damascus was 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:37.080 that easy for me. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.720 Christianity spoke to me at a time where I needed 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.120 a connection, and so no political pressure should never change 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:43.640 a person. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:49.720 I am my parents' daughter. Maybe that's why I'm so 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.560 interested in Ronald Reagan, because even though he's seen as 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:58.960 this ultimate American, this American mascot for. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.360 Those who have abandoned the whole, we'll restore hope and 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.120 we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:06.720 America great again. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.240 By dabbling in astrology, he got away with something that 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.360 doesn't feel American at all. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.920 So right after Don Reagan's book came out and broke 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.199 this story of astrology. In the White House, Ronald Reagan 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.920 and George Bush, who was then Vice President, were walking 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.640 to a press conference in the Rose Garden. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.760 Look, the President, will you continue to allow astrology to 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.920 play a part in the makeup of your old ChEls? 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:36.200 Knock it off? 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:36.520 There? 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.520 You asked for it. I can't because I never did. 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.360 This is not the man I watched in first grade 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.520 reminding us that science can be heartbreak but is always progress. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.560 I mean, this man is struggling. Like, listen to this 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.640 from May seventeen, nineteen eighty eight. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.960 This was all once again smoke and mirrors, and we 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.600 made no decisions on it, and we're not binding our 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:11.080 lives to this. And I don't mean to offend anyone 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.439 who does but believe in it. 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.000 So right there, he takes a moment to make sure 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.520 he's not offending anyone who believes in astrology, and then 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.960 a reporter pounces you. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.400 I don't guide my life by it, but I won't 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.480 answer the question the other way because I don't know 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.600 enough about it to say is there something to it? 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:40.920 Or belief is hard to talk about. It's confusing sometimes 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:45.080 belief is just the collective sway of these tiny tendrils 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.600 of influence. Like it's not some hard and fast tenets. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.880 I mean, you hear it in Reagan's words, right, Like 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.480 talking about belief is so hard that one of the 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.040 most gifted politicians stumbles through his answer and he twists 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.760 his words into some thinks so convoluted it barely has 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:08.400 meaning anymore. Except Reagan is not being honest here, because 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.840 astrology had definitely played a role in his daily and 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.720 his political life. And you don't have to take our 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.600 word for it, you can take his straight from his 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:23.440 nineteen sixty five autobiography. So let's turn back the clocks 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:30.520 and investigate right after this break. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:49.240 About the hearty got chum head. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:56.320 Chapter two, what would Nancy do? The strange thing is, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.920 for decades, Ron and Nancy's interest in astrology was an 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.600 open secret, or at least it had been. Astrology was 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.600 this California thing, and it was also a showbiz thing, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.560 and the Reagans and their friends they enjoyed rubbing shoulders 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.800 with people like La Times astrologer Carol Ryder because, like 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.160 People Magazine put it, writer was the confidante of the 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.480 rich and famous who saw him less as a backdoor 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.000 suitsayer than as social equal. His zodiac parties in the 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.480 fifties were highlights of every season. Fish for swimming in 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.840 his pool for the Pisces party, and he rented a 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.120 live line for a Leo party. As Ronald wrote in 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.160 his nineteen sixty five autobiography Where's the Rest of Me, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.360 every morning Nancy and I turned to see what he 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.880 has to say about people of our respective birth signs, horoscopes, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.560 and astrology. It was no big deal and a part 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.760 of their daily morning routine. They liked to check in 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.080 and contemplate how the stars might affect their day, and 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.120 they embraced the culture. Around that same time, Nancy started 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:07.399 paying writer for his astrologically. Then came the election in 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.920 late nineteen sixty six. After Ronald Reagan won the governor's race, 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.000 he scheduled his oath to take place, specifically at twelve 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.880 sixteen am on January second, nineteen sixty seven. The timing 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.000 of this did not make any sense unless you were 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.920 looking at the stars. It turns out that exact time 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.719 corresponded to Jupiter rising, and if you're a believer, starting 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:34.240 your term at that moment would make it blessed prosperous. 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.960 When the outgoing governor, Edmund Brown got wind of the story, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.440 he leaked it to the press, and Reagan's team immediately 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.440 went into spin mode. Right, so, Reagan had a spokesperson 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.880 tell reporters that he didn't believe in astrology. The staffer 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.919 even took it further. He said Reagan was so averse 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.840 to astrology that he had only ever seen a horoscope 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:01.640 by accident, which obviously wasn't true. But the craziest part 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.960 of all this, like the reason we're talking about this, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.879 It means that Don Reagan's book wasn't even the president's 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:13.480 first astrology related scandal. But let's talk about Nancy. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.320 When I started looking into this, the first place I 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.320 looked was Nancy Reagan's memoir because I wanted to hear 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.480 her side of the story. It's called My Turn, and 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.760 it was very pointedly a rebuke to Don Reagan's book 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.879 the year prior, and she basically disputed everything he said 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.320 and down played the role that her astrologer friend played 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.080 in the president's life, in her life, in everything, and 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.040 she said it was only minor schedule changes and it 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.199 only came about because she was so worried for her 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.840 husband's safety after the assassination attempt in nineteen eighty one, 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.159 and that she was driven to do this out of 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:49.879 a sense of duty and guilt. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.000 If you really want to trace the influence of astrology 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.760 on the White House, this is the moment that Nancy 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.760 Reagan started casting about for help. And it was her 0:18:58.760 --> 0:18:59.760 friend MERV Griffin. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.440 Good morning everybody, and welcome to We Report you. I'd 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:02.600 like her. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.160 I know Susan Stafford, our host. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:04.480 Is got. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.320 Yes game show legend MERV Griffin who introduced her to 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:11.240 Joan quickly. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.439 Joan quickly was this Vasser graduate. She was very smart. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.800 She came from a very wealthy knob Hill, San Francisco family. Initially, 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.680 Joan really tried to downplay her role in the Reagan's 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.320 lives because Nancy had asked her to do that. As 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.560 all of this controversy was boiling over, Joan really stuck 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.800 to the party line that well, no, I didn't have 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.159 that much influence. But when Nancy's book came out, I 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.439 think at that point Joan was like, screw you, Nancy. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:40.920 You know it's me time now. 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:41.880 Uh huh. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.840 She became briefly the most famous astrologer in the world right, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:46.840 she was going to take advantage of it, and so 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.439 she started telling the story that in fact she had 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:50.639 controlled everything. 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.040 It's true Nancy's astrologer would take credit for helping to 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.760 appoint some justices, keeping the president safe, and even thawing 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:02.120 the Cold War. But the question in just how influential 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.320 was she and how much did she have the president's 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.160 ear on foreign policy. But before we talk about Nancy's friend, 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.560 Chapter three a short and incomplete list of modern politicians 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:24.960 who used astrology. If Joe Biden was consulting an astrologer 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.919 on major American issues, how would you feel would you 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.160 vote for an astrology believer? We interrupted the New York 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.000 City dinner party to ask that very same question. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.200 It would feel more like the president was just rolling 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.359 the dice if that was how he was making decisions. 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.760 Yes, I would vote for a presidential candidate that used 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.840 astrology to guide their decision making, and I would think 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:54.000 that they were very wise. 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:56.280 Absolutely not. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.280 I think that is absolutely no connection between being a 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.840 great president and reading d the stars. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.120 It's just not politically correct. 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.040 But the truth is, Reagan's interest in astrology does not 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:23.800 make him an outlier here's a list of modern politicians 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.359 who read their horoscope and checked it twice. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.440 Why where. 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.080 Nixon was a quirky guy. Not only did he band 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.520 soup in the White House and eat cottage cheese with ketchup, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:41.000 but he also valued the advice of astrologer Jene Dixon, who, 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.320 to be fair, also gave advice to Franklin Roosevelt, JFK 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.959 and the Reagans. But Nixon called her his soothsayer. And 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:50.920 not only did Jean visit him in the White House, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.080 but she sent the president copious letters on national security predictions. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.439 In fact, in nineteen seventy two, when she warned of 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.959 a threat on American soil to the munich Olympics, Nixon 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.240 used her intel to alert Kissinger and to assemble a 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:06.919 counter terrorism unit. 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:10.119 For esay. 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.479 The only thing I remember about Boris Yelson is that 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.240 one time when he was visiting Washington, he almost caused 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.280 this international incident because he left the White House grounds 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.720 drunk in just his underwear, desperate to find some late 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:30.960 night pizza. This is true, which I can respect. But 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.280 Yeltsin was also an astrology head during his presidency. A 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.800 naval captain revealed to the economists, that Russia had a 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:48.920 secret institute that employed quote military astrologers, three friends when 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:53.040 the French president's wife made accusations that Midrand was only 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:55.840 interested in his astrologer because he was sleeping with her. 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.520 The astrologer a former model and actress. Really, these tapes 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.240 of their conversations show that they had a purely professional relationship, 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:08.800 And on these tapes were incredible things like Mitteran trying 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.639 to understand the power struggles in Russia through astrology. He 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.960 was using the stars to vet cabinet members, and most curiously, 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:22.000 he was taking astrological advice on how to handle France's 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:31.399 role and entry into the Gulf War. Anyway, all that's 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.720 to say that a handful of astrologers have had way 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.520 more sway on world events than any of us would 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:39.040 like to think. 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:48.320 You know, I know, you know, you know. 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:59.240 Chapter four, What would Joan do? If we're to believe Joan? Quickly? 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.280 What are the many thing she helped make happen was 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:05.480 Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's appointment. She also claims to 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.359 have planned the president's debate times and delayed the timing 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:13.280 of Reagan's cancer surgery. But perhaps most importantly, quickly takes 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:17.960 credit for changing the president's opinion about Soviet leader Mikyle Gorbachev, 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:21.639 as reported in The New York Times, quickly battled to 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.760 the mat for three hours to convince Nancy Reagan that 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:29.040 her husband could trust Gorbachev. As Quigley said, quote, the 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.919 placement of his ruler Mercury symbolizes to me that despite 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:36.560 his Russian training and origins, Gorbachev has the instincts of 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.359 a humanitarian. Joan also commitced the President to work towards 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.879 disarmament and to extend his trip in Europe to hammer 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:44.680 out in agreement. 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.919 The one thing everybody agrees on is that Joan Quigly 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.960 actually did help decide when the president traveled, because that 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.240 was Nancy's big fear after the assassination attempt. And so 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.040 I think everybody is pretty much an agreement that, yes, 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.320