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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season three, fourteen, Episode

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Speaker 1: two of Daily Zai Guys Stay production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: This is a podcast where we dig.

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Speaker 1: A deep avenue Marria's share Council. It is Tuesday, November

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Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty twenty three, and my name is Jack

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Speaker 1: O'Brien aka Potatoes O'Brien. Let's go with a savory potato

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Speaker 1: dish for this Thanksgiving week and I'm thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: joined by a guest co host who is the producer

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Speaker 1: behind shows like Fake Doctor's Real Friends and along with

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Speaker 1: Anajosea and other and many others, the Next Up podcast Initiative.

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Speaker 1: She's a brilliant writer who you can read a Vulture,

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Speaker 1: the av cluv teen Vogue. You've heard her on Pop

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Speaker 1: Culture Happy Hour, and most importantly on this podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: Joe Elmony Happy Tuesday, Tabby Tuesday. Have you Tuesday, Joel? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's right? And what you you will be having? Turkey Columbia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it amazing.

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Speaker 3: Play some bake rolls. You know we're keeping it simple.

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Speaker 3: I think we ordered a ham. Yeah you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Think we're order a ham. Yes, have ordered it yet?

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Speaker 1: I need to go order some ham. Hold on and

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Speaker 1: we're back. The ham's all sold out. I'm coming to

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Speaker 1: your Thanksgiving. My wife's family is coming into town. So

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Speaker 1: we usually have a Korean feast and then a handful

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Speaker 1: of kind of small traditional Thanksgiving sides and like one

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Speaker 1: sort of meat.

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Speaker 3: But like an American tapas.

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Speaker 1: I think, oh, for sure, it's so good. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: my kids are like starting to call it Turkey Day,

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Speaker 1: and like mashed potatoes Day was something says this morning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I showed him the damn Charlie Brown Thanksgiving and that

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Speaker 1: blew it for me because I do typically serve popcorn

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Speaker 1: and little little things of candy instead of just whatever

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Speaker 1: I have and on the shelves.

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Speaker 3: I like calling it Turkey Day because then it's just

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Speaker 3: the day we eat turkey, and there's nothing else counting around.

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Speaker 3: It's just this is the day we eat turkey. It's

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Speaker 3: a day that's been solidified to eat turkey with your family.

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Speaker 3: I take no joy in anything Unit says has ever

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Speaker 3: done in its entire existence. It's a hot mess over here.

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Speaker 3: But you know, then there's a turkey on the table

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Speaker 3: and that's always nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's pretty and it's not letting us

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Speaker 1: who don't prepare well off the hook. It's like there

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Speaker 1: better be some fucking turkey. All right, well, Joelle, we

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Speaker 1: are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite guests on the Daily Zeitgeist, a

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Speaker 1: professor of Alaska Native languages at the University of Alaska

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Speaker 1: Southeast and the host of the podcast The Tongue Unbroken,

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Speaker 1: which will be dropping season two on all our asses

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Speaker 1: in the not too destined future. Season one is us

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Speaker 1: so worth your time? Please welcome back to the show,

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Speaker 1: Doctor June Lance Twitch.

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Speaker 4: I saw the saw and it opened up my eyes.

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Speaker 4: D colon Nizes, nothing can stand it. White supremacies underhand.

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Speaker 4: I saw the sigh and it opened up my eyes.

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Speaker 4: De Calonnize. When you're gonna smarten up and give the

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Speaker 4: land back to whom it belongs, come tell me where

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Speaker 4: does it belong?

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Speaker 1: Why all the bomb drops? I was?

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Speaker 4: I thought of that while I was walking my dogs.

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Speaker 4: I walk my dogs at night and it's snowing, like

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Speaker 4: we got blizzard conditions, which is fine because it's Alaska.

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Speaker 4: But I was just thinking, it's like, I gotta have

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Speaker 4: some kind of cute like jingle or something. I like

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Speaker 4: my goal is to take a whole bunch of pop

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Speaker 4: songs and just make them decolonial anthems.

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Speaker 1: So they're working on over here. I wonder if Bass

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Speaker 1: would approve. I'm not sure. I haven't you know, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to, just haven't checked with them.

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Speaker 4: I'll reach out, say what's your standpoint on this whole

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Speaker 4: colonization thing. Then I'll decide whether or not.

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Speaker 3: Have a secret. I don't know if I'm just talking

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Speaker 3: internet rumors right now.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's Internet rumors are not, but

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Speaker 1: I do think that one of the members had a

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Speaker 1: Nazi pass and there is like some weird similarities between

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Speaker 1: like Ace of Basses, it was like the name of

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Speaker 1: the Nazi submarine base during World War Two.

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Speaker 4: If they turned out to be like Nazi supporters and

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Speaker 4: I just took their ship for.

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Speaker 1: The Yeah take yeah. Adam Todd Brown from Unpopular Opinion

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Speaker 1: podcast has written wrote a really cool article about that

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Speaker 1: for us back at Cracked and has a lot of

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Speaker 1: It's worth checking out because it's definitely makes you to

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Speaker 1: take a look. And also like All that She Wants

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Speaker 1: Is Another Baby was their other hit and it was

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Speaker 1: basically a portrait of a welfare Queen. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of what first song, Yes, those aces of Bassis, The

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Speaker 1: Aces of Bassis. When when you say blizzard conditions and

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Speaker 1: you're talking Alaska, what are we looking at?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so Juno is not the snowiest place in Alaska.

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Speaker 4: We are We are the most how did you say it?

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Speaker 4: We get the most precipitation per day.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 4: So there's some there's some communities south of us that

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Speaker 4: get the most rain. We're talking like one hundred and

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Speaker 4: forty inches a year, and so we don't really compare

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Speaker 4: to that, but we have the most rainy days I think,

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Speaker 4: out of anywhere on the Northwest coast.

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Speaker 1: And so we've got some folks.

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Speaker 4: Who are not from Juno, and when that came out

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Speaker 4: in the paper, they're kind of walking around head down sad,

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Speaker 4: you know, because I think what I try to tell

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Speaker 4: people is the weather is not an emotional barometer. So

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Speaker 4: just because it's raining doesn't mean you had to be sad.

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Speaker 4: I don't care what the commercials say. And so I

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Speaker 4: was like, we're the champions. Because on the newspaper says

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Speaker 4: Juno has the most rainy days on the Northwest coast.

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Speaker 4: I was like, we did it. We did it folks.

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Speaker 4: And so for us to get a bunch of snow

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Speaker 4: kind of messes us up a little bit. And so

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Speaker 4: we're talking like sixteen to twenty four inches in a day,

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Speaker 4: which is a lot for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a lot for most people. That is,

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Speaker 1: in my professional opinion, too much snow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So this and so this will also see like

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Speaker 4: how much have you been putting off for winter? Because

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Speaker 4: we've got to get ready for winter here. You got

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Speaker 4: to get your heating system looked at. You got to

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Speaker 4: get your shovels out from wherever they are. You got

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Speaker 4: to put the broom thing in your car. You got

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Speaker 4: to make sure you've got wipers that are worth the

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Speaker 4: dam and aren't you know, just faded pieces of cracked

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Speaker 4: rubber that are trying to like scratch some stuff off

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Speaker 4: your windows.

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Speaker 1: Coming for me with that description that is you're coming

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Speaker 1: from my wipers, I guess because my wipers are like

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Speaker 1: curved and only making contact with the windshield at the

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Speaker 1: very edges right now. But you can get away with

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Speaker 1: it in Los Angeles, you know.

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Speaker 4: For for Youno again, like we're really wet and it

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Speaker 4: does get cold, like we're right on the ocean, so

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Speaker 4: if it gets twenty ten zero, that's cold because it's

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Speaker 4: just something about the humidity and the cold that does it.

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Speaker 4: And if you go out boat on the ocean, that's

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Speaker 4: that's pretty serious stuff, the.

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Speaker 3: Coldest you've ever experienced.

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Speaker 4: But so if you go inland from here, like so

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Speaker 4: we have Thlingett communities that are in what is now

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Speaker 4: Canada for some reason. I say, for some reason, because

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Speaker 4: it's all thing get onie, like it's all our land.

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Speaker 4: And then they come and like cut it in half

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Speaker 4: and say you need a passport to get to this side.

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Speaker 1: And so to go down the street.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but we'll have language classes. We have folks who

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Speaker 4: call in from Canada and we'll start, you know, having

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Speaker 4: conversations and we'll be complaining about the weather, as humans

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Speaker 4: like to do, and we'll say, yeah, it's cold, and

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Speaker 4: then they'll say, yeah, it's forty below here and that's

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Speaker 4: celsius and forty below is like the level point. It's like, yes,

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Speaker 4: a matter if you're doing fahrenheit or cel.

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Speaker 1: Fahrenheit and celsius meet. I just discovered this. Yeah, fahrenheit

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Speaker 1: and celsia should never meet in a in a temperature.

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Speaker 3: The coldest i've ever experienced. It was like twenty eleven

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Speaker 3: there was snow apocalypse in Chicago, so it's snowed all

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Speaker 3: day and then overnight the temperature just plummeted, so like

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Speaker 3: cars like froze on. Like Short Drive, which is our

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Speaker 3: longest street that runs along the lake, it was bare.

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is new levels of just complete

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Speaker 3: icy coldness. I can't even I can't imagine that being like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is sort of our average around here every days.

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Speaker 3: You gotta It's like when I watch people in Russia

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Speaker 3: and they're like, no, it's fine, I have a fur

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Speaker 3: coat walking around. It's gonna like this is the human

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Speaker 3: body is incredible.

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Speaker 1: Fur coat, jogging pants. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Two fun things about like forty to fifty below is

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Speaker 4: because we lived in Fairbanks for a while, my family

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Speaker 4: and I, And so if you open the door, you

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Speaker 4: can see the cold roll in like fog like it

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Speaker 4: just like rolls in really quickly into the house. Like

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Speaker 4: you can see the cold, see.

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Speaker 1: The air like kind of it has a different quality

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Speaker 1: to it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then amazing you could take a hot beverage

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Speaker 4: like coffee or tea and go outside and throw it

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Speaker 4: in the air and it just turns into steam. It

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Speaker 4: just turns into like a little cloud.

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Speaker 3: We tried the experiment when it was very cold with

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Speaker 3: bubbles where we would try to freeze bubbles instantly, which

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Speaker 3: was kind of fun. And you just blow a bubble

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Speaker 3: and then it icicles will just form around it because.

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Speaker 1: It just falls to the ground like you.

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Speaker 3: Blow it on like a surface where your mouth canch.

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Speaker 3: I guess you could be ground level. We had like

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Speaker 3: a little ledge on our patio so that it had

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Speaker 3: some time to cross over, but it took like seconds.

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Speaker 2: It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: Turns into Christmas tree ornaments.

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Speaker 3: Basically perfect, yes, exactly exactly. Prepare for winter. Everybody is coming.

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Speaker 1: Not for me. I'm not doing fuck all that. I

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Speaker 1: have to assume that, like all the schools are closed

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Speaker 1: down with sixteen inches of snow.

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Speaker 4: Like, uh no, the schools are like they you know,

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Speaker 4: everybody was talking last well, I guess there's these like

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Speaker 4: Facebook groups and so people were saying, hey, school canna

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Speaker 4: be canceled, and I think a bunch of kind of

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Speaker 4: old schoolers this part were like nah, man nah, and

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Speaker 4: you know, and people are like, well, I got to

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Speaker 4: figure out what to do. How am I going to

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Speaker 4: get my kids there am I going to get them home?

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Speaker 4: I lived in this one place and the school closed

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Speaker 4: and they had to just sleep in the school. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: but we get snow, like they'll be out plowing this stuff.

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Speaker 4: They're out there right now. Like the people who like

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Speaker 4: the city of Juno and the and the state of Alaska,

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Speaker 4: the folks who like work on roads, they'll get this

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Speaker 4: stuff cleared out. Although there's a community anchorage which they

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Speaker 4: are not good at plowing their streets, but in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's like some local it is. It's

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Speaker 1: so it's yeah, there's anchorage sucks plowing their streets.

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Speaker 4: Well, there was a guy and he's like this super

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Speaker 4: conservative politician and he won. He won, and his whole

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Speaker 4: thing is like budget cuts, and I think he ran

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Speaker 4: on this these platforms of kind of hate and budget cuts,

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Speaker 4: which which seems to be kind of a conservative platform.

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Speaker 4: And so now the streets don't get plowed. And so

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Speaker 4: there was some sort of it was a great little

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Speaker 4: Internet picture and it showed like be careful what you

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Speaker 4: asked for was one of his campaign signs, and so

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Speaker 4: there's a picture of him it says be careful what

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Speaker 4: you ask for, and like just a ship ton of snow,

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Speaker 4: like on the roads because you people and people can't

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Speaker 4: really get around. But the school's here, Like they'll usually

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Speaker 4: send us a text like six in the morning and

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Speaker 4: they're like, yeah, just dust it off, bro and get

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Speaker 4: your kids to school. But the after school stuff will

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Speaker 4: be closed because you know, get too wild. But the

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Speaker 4: school itself like, let's go get.

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Speaker 1: To tunnel and get tunnel in folks. That's that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I lived in Kentucky for a while and it's like

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Speaker 1: thinks of itself as southern, but it still gets snow

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Speaker 1: most winters and it just has to be the rumor

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Speaker 1: of snow and they will shut down school for like

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Speaker 1: a week. They're just like, we're gonna be this is

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Speaker 1: this is a mess. We're a mess during a snowstorm.

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Speaker 3: Their highways are already terrible, so even the hint of

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Speaker 3: snowfall is just chaos.

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Speaker 1: Forty eight hours of traffic down exactly. It's like that

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Speaker 1: exact longitudinal or latitudinal line of like Lexington, Kentucky, Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to get caught there during the snowstorm. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into some of the things, some

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Speaker 1: of the things just generally that we wanted to. We've

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Speaker 1: been talking about wanting to talk to you about hun

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Speaker 1: every time you come on the show. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to devote a whole episode to kind of talking about

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Speaker 1: We're going to get into Buffy, Saint Marie, the concept

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Speaker 1: of pretendians or Native movies, what's the new Scorsese movie

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Speaker 1: Killers of the Flower Moon, And then just indigenous languages

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Speaker 1: and the role that language has played in genocide, among

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Speaker 1: many other things. But before we get to any of it,

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Speaker 1: we do like to get to know you a little

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Speaker 1: bit better and ask you what is something from your

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Speaker 1: search history?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so my search history is usually a lot of

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Speaker 4: policy for the United States government and trying to get

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Speaker 4: to the bottom of it, you know. So there's some

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Speaker 4: different things I was thinking about with boarding schools and

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Speaker 4: how did these boarding schools run, who was running them?

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Speaker 4: And so we're doing some There's a group that I'm

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Speaker 4: involved with, a council called the Alaska Native Language Preservation

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Speaker 4: and Advisory Council, and we're talking about the history of

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Speaker 4: boarding schools and what they were for Native American peoples

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Speaker 4: and for a lot of people that might not be

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Speaker 4: something that they have to think about on a regular

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Speaker 4: basis is that there were schools where children were forcibly

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Speaker 4: taken from their parents and brought to these places and

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Speaker 4: completely stripped of their identity. And so if you want

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Speaker 4: to just sort of like think of scenes from movies

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Speaker 4: about Auschwitz or about the Holocaust that was happening here

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Speaker 4: just to brown people. And so a lot of people

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Speaker 4: don't pay attention to it. So sometimes we got to

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Speaker 4: take a look at this stuff. And so some of

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Speaker 4: the things that we've been searching for is could we

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Speaker 4: make a list of every boarding school that was running

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Speaker 4: in Alaska, and then could we have some sort of

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Speaker 4: acknowledgment in healing ceremony with these places because they were

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Speaker 4: run by the United States government, and they're also run

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Speaker 4: by religious organizations, Christian organizations in the United States who

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Speaker 4: were colonizing and trying to eliminate Indigenous languages and indigenous cultures.

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Speaker 4: And so there's a wonderful colleague of mind. His name

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Speaker 4: is doctor Waki Charles, and he teaches the Yuchten language,

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Speaker 4: the Yupik language. He's at Fairbanks and he was at

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Speaker 4: one of these schools. So it did happen long time ago,

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Speaker 4: but it happened for a long time as well. So

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Speaker 4: there are people alive today who went to these schools,

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Speaker 4: and he talks about how he went there and how

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Speaker 4: his mother had no idea where he was going. She

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Speaker 4: didn't speak English, she had no idea when he was

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Speaker 4: coming home. They just took him and they took his

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Speaker 4: clothes and they put a number. His name was taken,

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Speaker 4: and his new name was number twelve, and number twelve

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Speaker 4: was written on all of his clothes. Number twelve was

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Speaker 4: written on all of his belongings, and that's what he

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Speaker 4: was referred to. And so he talked about, you know,

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Speaker 4: and where he went. So his family is from western Alaska,

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Speaker 4: which is very far from where we are, but he

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Speaker 4: was brought here to a community called Wrangele, to a

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Speaker 4: school called Wrangel Institute. And at some of these schools,

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Speaker 4: these teachers have written books. I'm not going to say

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Speaker 4: their name. I'm not going to say the name of

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Speaker 4: the book because it's trash. But in the book they say,

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Speaker 4: you know, so this is basically their memoir of teaching

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Speaker 4: in Alaska. They said, we couldn't get them to stop

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Speaker 4: speaking their own language, and we wanted them to learn English,

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Speaker 4: but we developed and this is their where its a

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Speaker 4: heroic remedy, which was to take these two chemicals, one

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Speaker 4: that's very bitter and one that burns the inside of

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Speaker 4: your mouth, and we would soak a rag in that

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Speaker 4: and then when one of them started speaking their language,

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Speaker 4: we would stuff the rag in their mouth.

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Speaker 1: So it's stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: But every now and then I'll be on the internet

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Speaker 4: looking for something that's not horrible. But I think people

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Speaker 4: need to look at this and not be afraid of

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Speaker 4: examining it, because as a nation, if we don't say, like,

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Speaker 4: this was part of our history, this was something that

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Speaker 4: we did. This is what education was for Native people.

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Speaker 4: I think if you don't examine that, then it never

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Speaker 4: fully changes into something else.

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Speaker 3: I can I ask you about acknowledgement, and because I

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Speaker 3: feel like every time he knows part of like the

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Speaker 3: black community, there are a lot of times people like,

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Speaker 3: what does acknowledging slavery do for you? There's like this

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Speaker 3: very it happened forever ago, it's history. Why do we

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Speaker 3: need these things? And I'm just curious. You know, you're

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Speaker 3: such a large part of your community organizing, and what

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Speaker 3: does for you? What do these acknowledgments mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, part of these acknowledgments are to say. Colonization is

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Speaker 4: an act of like complete dehumanization on every possible aspect.

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Speaker 4: So you have to dehumanize the people that you're doing this.

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Speaker 4: And when we talk about colonization, we're not talking about like, oh,

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Speaker 4: let's go move over here and build a house and

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Speaker 4: search for our own personal freedom, which is usually what

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Speaker 4: we're sort of sold on is life was tough. So

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Speaker 4: they found this place where they could make it work.

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Speaker 4: And they had belt buckles on their hats or something.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're not really taught a whole lot about that. Shoes,

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Speaker 1: everything was covered in belt buckles. Just get us more buckles.

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Speaker 1: How the fuck am I going to find enough belt buckles?

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Speaker 1: Maybe that was a problem, and they keep expanding.

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Speaker 4: They see all these native people, like these motherfuckers, they

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Speaker 4: don't got no buckles.

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Speaker 1: We gotta wipe them out, you know.

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Speaker 4: So there's probably more complic But the problem is is

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Speaker 4: in order to really like completely try to annihilate someone,

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Speaker 4: you have to dehumanize them because the population has to

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Speaker 4: figure out how to be on board with that. Because

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Speaker 4: you can get individuals who can subscribe to bascist beliefs

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Speaker 4: and say, yeah, like fucking wipe them out. But to

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Speaker 4: get like a whole population to do that, you have

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Speaker 4: to sort of create this collective denial, which I think

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Speaker 4: the United States is very good at collective denial.

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Speaker 1: And so we're not.

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Speaker 4: Just a shining example, right, And so one is just saying, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this happened, and this is something we have to rectify.

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Speaker 4: Because if I burned your house down and then we

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Speaker 4: were going to stay friends or just even live next

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Speaker 4: to each other, and if I never talked about it

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Speaker 4: and nothing ever happened to me, that would be so

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Speaker 4: it would be awkward at the minute least, right, see me,

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Speaker 4: like burn my house down, your fucker, And I was

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Speaker 4: just like, hey, I'm just getting my newspaper.

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Speaker 1: What why you gotta yell at me? Right?

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Speaker 4: And so, but then also like how if that is

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Speaker 4: part of the foundation story of the United States of America,

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Speaker 4: then how do you reconcile with ending that violence against

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Speaker 4: people's if you'd never even look at the thing. And

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Speaker 4: so to say like, let's let's actually look at that

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Speaker 4: one of the things that can be really tremendously healing,

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Speaker 4: because I don't think we talk enough about any of

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Speaker 4: this stuff. But the colonizer also must dehumanize in order

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Speaker 4: to do that kind of stuff, because on a day

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Speaker 4: to day basis, you don't just I don't think you

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Speaker 4: don't just walk into someone's kitchen and eat all their

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Speaker 4: food and slap them in the face and just like

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Speaker 4: claim their kitchen as theirs as yours. But we've done

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Speaker 4: that collectively, right, Like colonizers have done that to indigenous peoples.

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Speaker 4: And so I think there's opportunities when you embrace decolonization

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Speaker 4: for the descendants of the colonizers to also reconnect with humanity.

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Speaker 4: But I think they're really terrified to I was given

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Speaker 4: some talks the other day and I was saying, I

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Speaker 4: really like science fiction films. I like horror films, but

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Speaker 4: sometimes if you watch a science fiction movie, it's like

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Speaker 4: there's these white people and then aliens come or some

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Speaker 4: kind of monster and they're gonna like take their take

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Speaker 4: all their stuff and take their language and take everything.

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Speaker 4: It's like this it's a horror you know. Or there's

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Speaker 4: some huge apocalypse, right, And so these post apocalyptal kind

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Speaker 4: of films I think about them, but I watch them,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's we've lived that. We've done that, right,

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Speaker 4: Like they came, they took the stuff like, you know,

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Speaker 4: it must be scary for you, but it's our reality.

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Speaker 4: But I think about that stuff a lot because I

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Speaker 4: think as we talk about concepts like decolonization, there are

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Speaker 4: probably quite a few white people who think, oh, now

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Speaker 4: they're gonna put us on reservations and make us stop

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Speaker 4: speaking always.

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Speaker 3: To go to They're like, well, if we acknowledge it,

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Speaker 3: then there'll be white slavery, Like I don't want to

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Speaker 3: own slaves, like my answers to survived, you, why would

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Speaker 3: I put someone use in such a ridiculous thought?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean there was a survey that came out of

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Speaker 4: Harvard a while ago and there was like interviewing I

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Speaker 4: guess people in the South, and they're saying, do you

407
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Speaker 4: think that white people have it harder now than black

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Speaker 4: people did during the era of slavery, and that there

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Speaker 4: was a lot of them that checked the box yes, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's real hard for us. People are real mad at us,

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Speaker 4: so that's got to be really hard, right. So, but

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Speaker 4: I think the acknowledgment, as well as saying like could

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Speaker 4: we become something else? Like there's you know, about five

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Speaker 4: hundred languages that were on this continent in California was

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Speaker 4: the most diverse, is the most linguistically diverse part of

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Speaker 4: North America, and every one of those languages is almost gone.

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Speaker 4: And so as we look at that, like what happens

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Speaker 4: when a language is gone? What happens when a species

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Speaker 4: is gone? And I want to be careful with that

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Speaker 4: because a lot of times Native Americans, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you go to some big museum, we're not there with

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Speaker 4: like Monet and these you know, whoever else is making

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Speaker 4: a bunch of art. Right, We're over by the wolves

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Speaker 4: and the moose and you know, we're by the animals.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, you taught you said the different distinction

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Speaker 1: between art and artifact and the tongue unbroken.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, right, And so we see like the

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Speaker 4: way that dehumanization enters into academics as well, where you know,

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Speaker 4: like white people get literature and we get stories, and

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Speaker 4: white people get art, and we get artifacts, and white

431
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Speaker 4: people get science and we get ecological knowledge. Right, and

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Speaker 4: so trying to sort of also just say now let's

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Speaker 4: just like everything is a thing, and let's just sort

434
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 4: of say, yeah, we can have multiple perspectives, and then

435
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 4: you can also but you know, one of the things

436
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 4: where science has a hard time with us is they'll say, oh, oh,

437
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 4: is that a medicine? But like, yeah, that the thing

438
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 4: that comes out of a tree. You could put it

439
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 4: on a wound and they'll seal it right up. Oh well,

440
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 4: how do you guys know that? Like, oh, because Raven

441
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 4: got that information from the sea otters and he tricked

442
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 4: them and now we know it. And that's that's fine

443
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 4: for us, But I think for science they need some

444
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 4: sort they need They need probably a white guy in

445
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 4: a lab coat.

446
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, story of a white guy and a lab coat. Yeah,

447
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: with like a bad mustache and like weird glasses that's

448
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: strapped to his ears or something. All right, let's take

449
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll come back. We'll keep talking

450
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: about this. We'll be right back, and we're back. And

451
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: for first of all, we talked. We started off this

452
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: episode talking about Thanksgiving, and I'd just be interested in hearing,

453
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: like as to your metaphor of the person who burns

454
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: down your house else and then it is just like

455
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: expects you to be cool with it, and it continues

456
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: living there and then they're like, hey, we're having a

457
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: party to celebrate that time I burned down your house

458
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: and you are cool with it. Do you want to

459
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: come over or don't come over and just just continue

460
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: being cool with it? What is Thanksgiving like for you?

461
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: And like where you live? Yeah?

462
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, And colonization is so interesting because there's some things

463
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 4: I think Indigenous peoples accept and some things that they reject.

464
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 4: And so one of my examples is, you know, we

465
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: get people keep track of our blood quantum, the government

466
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 4: keeps track of I've got a card, I've got to

467
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 4: actually let's say what my fraction is of my indigenous identity.

468
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 4: And so that's not something I think that very many

469
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: people get, but that's something Indigenous people get. And that

470
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 4: tells you whether or not you qualify for things or

471
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 4: if you can go shoot a seal. And so a

472
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 4: lot of times as we look at that stuff, and

473
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 4: blood quantum is what it's called, and so sometimes we'll

474
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 4: be like, fuck blood quantum, man, you can't measure me,

475
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 4: can't measure my indigenous identity. But then we got a

476
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: dog and I'll be like, this dog is one hundred

477
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 4: percent German shepherd. I'll show you the papers. It's a

478
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 4: pure bread, right, right. So some things we reject in

479
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: some things we accept and sometimes those are similar things.

480
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 4: And so for us, we we eat, we throw down

481
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: a turkey. I mean, that's just something I grew up with.

482
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 4: And then we'll we'll do stuffing, we'll do all that stuff.

483
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 4: They have thinget names, and the thlinget names are not

484
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 4: great because when we saw that turkey and it had

485
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 4: you know, and turkey is are indigenous to North America,

486
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: but they're not indigenous to where we are, and so

487
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 4: it's got that sort of long thing that hangs down

488
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 4: from its beak or whatever. I don't always called the

489
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: gobbler gobbler. Yeah, so they called it, which means it's

490
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 4: not news, which is not a nice name. We're usually

491
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: so respectful to our food. But then I had an

492
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: elder over. We had this big Thanksgiving dinner and we

493
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 4: were stuffing the bird, or maybe we're pulling stuffing out

494
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 4: of the bird because we're having the dinner. I said,

495
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 4: and thing in I said, well we gonna call this

496
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 4: the stuff because you know, I don't that's not a

497
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: great word either, just in English. And then we're like, well,

498
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: you know, I think you kind of put it in

499
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: the turkey's ass. And then then you like, you know,

500
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 4: we mix a bunch of stuff. It's yummy, And so

501
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: we were we started up with like the bread that's

502
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 4: in the turkey's butt, and then we end up with

503
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: like turkey poop. Yeah, and so it's like like, okay,

504
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 4: we're just gonna have to stick with stuffing for somebody.

505
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: Stuff.

506
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: But at our university, some of our students had a

507
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: great idea, which is, you know, there was a time

508
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 4: when universities usually had Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and

509
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 4: Easter break, right, and so as we look at that,

510
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 4: we say, well, a university is not a Christian institution,

511
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 4: so we don't need to have those we can have.

512
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: So at our university, we had winter break and then

513
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: we had spring break, and so we said, well, why

514
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 4: don't we have fall break instead of Thanksgiving break? And

515
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: what was interesting again coming back to colonial overreactions, which

516
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: are you know, this was a classic colonial overreaction, I think.

517
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: So we pitched this idea, everybody's on board and was like, yeah,

518
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 4: that's that's great because not everybody acknowledges, you know, the

519
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 4: story behind Thanksgiving, which was you know, sometimes they'll say, oh, well,

520
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 4: these Native Americans and these pilgrims had a great meal

521
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 4: and they they really shook hands and figured it out.

522
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: I guess you know which is. I remember I saw

523
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 4: this some sort of little clip. I can't find it anymore.

524
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: I have to do some internet digging, if you all

525
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 4: can do some deep dives. There was this little skit

526
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 4: of these kids re enacting the first Thanksgiving and the

527
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 4: pilgrims murder all the Indigenous people, and it's it's you

528
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 4: could laugh at it because it's so horrible, but it's

529
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 4: also like just sort of goes in the against what

530
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: we're usually taught, which is these artificial narratives of just

531
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 4: how nice white people were here.

532
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's also in Adam's family values, by the way.

533
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: Oh that's right, that's right where she's you know, she

534
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 4: burns down the village, right.

535
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

536
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: And so, but as we had this one meeting, we said, yeah, well,

537
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: all we're doing is on the calendar of the university,

538
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 4: it won't say Thanksgiving closure, I'll say Fall closure. That's

539
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: all we're trying to do, right, And someone says, well,

540
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: I think the students should be able to eat turkey,

541
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: and I said, bro, I never said anything about turkey,

542
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: Like I don't. Yeah, like the like they could serve

543
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: whatever kind of food they want to no one suggesting

544
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: that changes. And then he said, well, I think people

545
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 4: should be able to gather with their families over this

546
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: break and I said, I never said they, Like, I

547
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: don't know where you're getting this information, Like it's literally

548
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: just changing what the thing is called on a calendar.

549
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 4: I'm not going to go into your house and like

550
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: make you disperse, like I don't understand. There's no there's

551
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: no Gestapo coming for your Thanksgiving gathering and so and

552
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 4: then that same person he wanted to talk to me more,

553
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: so I gave him my phone number, and when I

554
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: picked up the phone, he said, thanks for taking the time.

555
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, like I'm happy to talk about

556
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 4: this stuff. He said, I just don't think you know

557
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: how hard it is to be a Christian these days.

558
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, this is not the conversation I want

559
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: to have, but okay, let's listen. Because you know, the

560
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 4: same thing with the War on Christmas and this this

561
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 4: idea that Christianity is under threat, Like I can drive

562
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 4: this one loop in town and I think I hit

563
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: like twelve churches.

564
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, where are they going? Right?

565
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: I think what's particularly wild about that? Is Thanksgiving is

566
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: not a Christian holiday in Rome. The Vatican's not preparing

567
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: a Thanksgiving. Damiel bizarre to equate the two. I don't

568
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: that's wild to me, that's wild.

569
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you made this metaphor in season one of the

570
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: Tongue I'm broken about they take your land, the colonialists

571
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: to take your land. And when you say, and then like,

572
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: build a beautiful home on it. And then when you say, like, okay,

573
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to also build a home here, they say,

574
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: you can't because that will destroy my home. Like and

575
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just really resonated to me as

576
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: just someone who lives in this culture, Like you know

577
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: the things I've been hearing in conversations around Gaza as well,

578
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: and you know that people aren't able to continue to

579
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: live there because somehow their continued existence is devaluing to

580
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: the existence of the people who are kind of forcing

581
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: them off their land. And it just it seems to

582
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: have this same corrupted, overall logic over and over again repeatedly.

583
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think some of the things that are happening

584
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 4: over there are really difficult for people in the United States,

585
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 4: because I think the United States, it's very easy to

586
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 4: hate people who are Jewish, and it's very easy to

587
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 4: hate people who are Muslim and so, and that's very

588
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 4: easy to hate people who are brown. It's kind of

589
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 4: baked into the culture, and you have to you have

590
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 4: to consciously move against these things at all times in

591
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 4: order to sort of not by default have these these

592
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 4: feelings of hatred or otherness. And so I think it's

593
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: really hard because they're like, oh, well, what side do

594
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 4: I pick? Because these guys look kind of like me,

595
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 4: so they pick those guys. But also, you know, there's

596
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 4: just so many different things that are coded in language,

597
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: that are coded in film and entertainment, where we're supposed

598
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 4: to like just hate these people and other them. And

599
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 4: so I think it's when people look at this stuff,

600
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 4: we see so much violence, and we hear about violence,

601
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 4: and we like, well, yeah, they're in hospitals, so we

602
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 4: got to blow up the hospitals so that we can

603
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 4: we can get the bad guys, you know. And so

604
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: but I don't know if that's really a heroic tactic.

605
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's a tactic that's really has

606
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: an ethical sort of grounding, and you know, to say,

607
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 4: like it doesn't matter who's there we need to get

608
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: this small group of people, and so we'll kill all

609
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: these people to get them. And so there's some things

610
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 4: I think that really ring true for a lot of

611
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 4: Indigenous peoples, which is battle over land. But then there's

612
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 4: some things that I think for a lot of our

613
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: indigenous communities might be difficult for us to understand, like well,

614
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: whose land is it? Because they crossed an ocean to

615
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: get here, and so that was pretty clear. You know,

616
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 4: I know there's some people who someone people like to

617
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 4: tag me in things. And so there was this wonderful

618
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 4: news article about a Native American language center that was

619
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: starting an organ but then it was through an organ newspaper.

620
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 4: And then all these people from Oregon, which is a

621
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 4: place with its own problems because I think until not

622
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 4: too long ago, it was like illegal for black people

623
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 4: to live there, and like, you know, it's it's a

624
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 4: complicated place. That was in southwest Organ and there was

625
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 4: there's a road there called Dead Indian Memorial Road, and

626
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 4: they have this, yeah, they have this big sign that says,

627
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: you know this place, this road used to be called

628
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 4: Dead Indian Road. We realized that was not a sensitive name,

629
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 4: so we changed the name to Dead Indian Memorial Road and.

630
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: Oregon. I was you were so close and you landed

631
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: so far.

632
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 4: And so some of the problems I think that are

633
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 4: present in a lot of Native American communities, which are

634
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 4: probably present all through the United States, is we don't

635
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: get educated on the history of the Middle East. We

636
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 4: don't get educated on why are people in this fight

637
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 4: over the land and about nations and belonging. And people

638
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: are very quick to say, oh, you're anti Semitic just

639
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: because you're saying, like, don't blow up hospitals.

640
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: And then that seems to be the one point that

641
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: you can just whether you know a lot about the

642
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: history or not. It just feels like the one thing

643
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: that I feel like we've been consistent on on this

644
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: show is just like, but anytime there's killing of innocent people,

645
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: like there wasn't October seventh or has been since in Gaza,

646
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: like that's pretty self evidently not the way to go,

647
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: and like something that should be opposed in all its forms.

648
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, and it's complicated too, because you've got people,

649
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 4: you've got people of color over whether you've got it's

650
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: a real mixing zone. It's a real mixing zone. And

651
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 4: so but also, like you guys are talking about this

652
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 4: the other day, we grew up in the nineteen eighties,

653
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 4: like who are the bad guys in films? It was

654
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 4: Russians and Muslims, right, and so probably more Muslims and Russians.

655
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 4: And so I think there's a lot of stuff that

656
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 4: you can attach to to just hate people because they

657
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: are Muslim and you don't understand that. And so instead

658
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 4: of sort of looking into who are these people and

659
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,479
Speaker 4: what do they do and how can I get.

660
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: To know them more?

661
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 4: And again can you connect to humanity? But it all

662
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: gets very quickly twisted as well, through a bunch of

663
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: different distorted lenses.

664
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing that I wanted to drive home is

665
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: just you know, in talking about the you know, erasure

666
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: of cultural value and languages as a cultural and linguistic genocide.

667
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned throughout the first season of The Tongueunbroken

668
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: that youth suicide rates among Native Alaskan youse is tragically high.

669
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: And it's something that you hear a lot in the

670
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: in you know, accounts of people who are being actively

671
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: oppressed and who not not just in physically, but you know,

672
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: in these ideologically like philosophical ideological conditions that are inhospitable

673
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: to the human like to human life like that, and

674
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: I just I feel like that is clarifying in a

675
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: way that this erasure of identity and the choking off

676
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 1: of the ability to create meaning for oneself and identity

677
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: for oneself causes people to actually lose their lives, causes

678
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: children to like harm themselves, and that just connecting those

679
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: two things, Like there are a lot of schools of

680
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: philosophy and psychology that identify the search for meanings like

681
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: one of the most important human needs, like it will

682
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: sustain you through the prison camps in Auschwitz, but without

683
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: it you can't survive anything. You know, you can't survive

684
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: daily life. And it feels like a lot of the

685
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: things that you're talking about in the boarding schools and

686
00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: just throughout the history of colonization are very systemic exams

687
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: samples of attacks on those things that make a life possible,

688
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: make it possible to live and find mean it.

689
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, last week was the birthday of a man Noeled

690
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 4: Kajakte's English name was Walter Sobolev and he lived to

691
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 4: be one hundred and two years old, and he was

692
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 4: so fun to talk to, like his Thlingate was so

693
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 4: good and he was a pastor in a church for

694
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 4: a long time. They closed his church because he would

695
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 4: do his sermons and fling it as well as English,

696
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 4: and so I guess like but on that note, the

697
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 4: Presbyterian Church, who has a hand in language and culture suppression,

698
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 4: a bunch of horrible stuff in this part of the world.

699
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 4: They they held a community listening session, and they held

700
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 4: several of them. Then they came back a month or

701
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 4: two later and they said they made a public apology

702
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 4: and they said they were wrong. It was racist, and

703
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 4: they said, you know, like, it wasn't our decision, but

704
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 4: it was our institution, and we recognize that and we apologize.

705
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: And then they made a million dollar commitment to language

706
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 4: and culture revitalization in our region. And that stuff is

707
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 4: important because Walter Soboloff he used to say, people who

708
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: know who they are don't kill themselves. And when we

709
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 4: look at suicide rates and Alaska Natives, it's a very

710
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 4: horrifying thing because it's the leading cause of death among

711
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: Alaska Native youth. The suicide rates are by far the

712
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 4: highest in the nation. I remember I was listening to

713
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 4: you Guys podcast and you had a guest on this

714
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 4: is years ago who said, like, white males are the

715
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: ones with the highest suicide rates, And I just remember thinking, oh,

716
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 4: not even close, maybe by like just like the number

717
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: of people. But if you're talking like per capita, if

718
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 4: you're talking like per person, if we were white people,

719
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: it would be a national emergency. There would be there

720
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 4: would be movements, there be posters, they'd be all kinds

721
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 4: of stuff. But it's a native problem, so you know,

722
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: people just look the other way at this kind of stuff.

723
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 4: But coming back to the boarding schools, like they came

724
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: and they took the children, Like, so they taking your

725
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 4: children out of your home is huge, Like we cannot

726
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 4: overlook the impact of this because then the parents like

727
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 4: what are they going to do, because then they're also

728
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 4: losing the land, and so they they turned to alcohol,

729
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 4: they turned to you know, things to try and fill

730
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 4: those voids. And so it's it's we're connected with this

731
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 4: group called the Polynesian Voyaging Society and sometimes they're called

732
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 4: the Kalaya because one of their one of their canoes

733
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 4: called the hook leya Hawaiian voyagers who have brought back

734
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 4: their traditional way of navigating way out in the open ocean,

735
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 4: just incredible, incredible indigenous science. And so we had them

736
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: over here and there was a guy named Uncle Billy

737
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 4: who was just really breaking it down for me. He's like,

738
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 4: here's Colonialism's complicated. It's complicated because what they did simultaneously

739
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 4: was they banished our warrior society, so they kept us

740
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 4: from defending ourselves and our own peoples. And then they

741
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: began to rape and murder the women. Like we have

742
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 4: lots of stories in our community. When they built a

743
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 4: naval base there, that's when our women started washing up

744
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 4: on the beaches dead, you know, and so they and

745
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 4: we gain our clans through our mothers, and so when

746
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 4: they started to take out our mothers and our sisters,

747
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 4: and our aunties and our daughters, it really began to

748
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 4: crush us. And this is where we talk about colonialism

749
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: and the absolute inhumanity that it was. Is there's a

750
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 4: place it's called they call it Seduction Point, and I

751
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 4: have a real problem with that because it's called k

752
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: the place where a dog cries, which is there's nothing

753
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 4: wrong with that name. But the story that we were

754
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 4: told was there was a thinget settlement there. They were

755
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: running a fish camp and the men went out to

756
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 4: fish and to work on stuff, and these navy soldiers

757
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 4: showed up and they sexually assaulted the women. And then

758
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 4: they gave it that name Seduction Point. And so the

759
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 4: level of disgusting is very high when we look at

760
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 4: some of this stuff. So then you separate the people

761
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: from the land by saying you have to live here. Now,

762
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 4: this is ours. You have to move over here. And

763
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: in Alaska's, especially southeast Alaska, they would form these Indian

764
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: towns like y'all got to go live here. Now, y'all

765
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 4: got to go live there. Now, y'all got to go

766
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: live there. And again like this is not ancient history.

767
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 4: There's a village just across the way. Well, there's a town.

768
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 4: It's called Douglas, and it used to be a village.

769
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 4: And when the people, like our lifestyle was we would

770
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 4: go to a fish camp in the summer, fish and

771
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: put up your foods and pick berries and do all

772
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 4: this stuff. Then you come back to your homes in

773
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 4: the winter. So they're gone in the summer. And so

774
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 4: white people burn their homes down. This is the nineteen sixties.

775
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 4: And then they built the city on top of it.

776
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 4: Because then and then your language is banished. And one

777
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 4: of the big, big problems is, but if you think about,

778
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: like all these movements to try and make English just

779
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 4: a nicer language, right, because some people will say, how

780
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 4: come they can call themselves out but I can't. And

781
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 4: I was like, let's have that conversation. Because this was

782
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 4: a weapon, This was a social weapon, and people took

783
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 4: control of it. And we've got all kinds of communities.

784
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 4: And so the queer community, the black community, were they,

785
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 4: the Asian community, they have these different things that were

786
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 4: derogatory terms for them and they take them. They say, oh, yeah,

787
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: we'll call each other that. Well, you can't, and there's

788
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 4: a whole history behind that. But so if we look

789
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: at this kind of stuff, and we look at English

790
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 4: is trying to get nicer as a language, and some

791
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 4: people get really angry, right they call it politically correct.

792
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 4: And so if you say politically correct, you probably need

793
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 4: to work on yourself and your your understanding of how

794
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 4: the world works and your sense of humanity. But if

795
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 4: you think of what was English one hundred years years ago,

796
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 4: what was English two hundred years ago, probably a lot

797
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 4: worse in terms of talking about Native Americans, talking about

798
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 4: black people. And if that's the language you're replacing our

799
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 4: language with. Like our language, we love ourselves in our language,

800
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 4: we love each other in our language. And then we

801
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 4: have this other, this English, that is not capable of

802
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: doing it the same way. So then one of the

803
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 4: other sort of things. And this is called inward banishment.

804
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 4: So for Native American people, you take this child, you

805
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 4: cut their hair, you make them wear, you know, white

806
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 4: people clothes, and you give them a number instead of

807
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 4: a name, and then eventually you just give them an

808
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 4: English name or her, and then you put them through

809
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 4: the school. And these schools are horrible. There's so much

810
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 4: torture that happened at them. There's such gross food and

811
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 4: such physical and sexual abuse at these places, and people

812
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 4: kids got killed. And then you say, okay, now you

813
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 4: have to be white. You have to be white. If

814
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 4: you are yourself, I will physically punish you, I will

815
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 4: torture you, all stuff, things in your mouth, all kinds

816
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: of stuff. We got all kinds of stories of what

817
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 4: kids have gone through. But then when they try to

818
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 4: be white, then they'll say, who are you trying to

819
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: be us? You're just a second class citizen. There's this

820
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 4: one elder she said, my teacher's never hit me for

821
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 4: speaking my language. But when I was a little girl,

822
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 4: this one school teacher called me over every day and

823
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 4: she'd say, you know, you, people think you're just as

824
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 4: good as us, but you're not and you never will be.

825
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 4: You're a second class citizen.

826
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 1: So this is how.

827
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 4: School teachers used to talk to kids, and so trying

828
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 4: to sort of look at that and just dealing with it.

829
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 4: And you know, I know white people get scared that

830
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 4: people are coming for them, which is you know, I

831
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 4: think there's a lot of guilt there, just because like,

832
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 4: oh man, we would fucking everything up, but someone gonna

833
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 4: come fuck us up to Yeah, but I think it's

834
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 4: not nobody's. Well, there probably are some people, but collectively,

835
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 4: I don't think indigenous peoples are looking for that. We're

836
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 4: just looking for a little bit of balance. And so

837
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 4: but I think trying to look at that stuff is

838
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: very terrifying because then you have to rectify it somehow. Yeah,

839
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 4: And you know, and for us, if we have to

840
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 4: carry the burden on our own, you know, people they're

841
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 4: just killing themselves. And if we look at this, we say,

842
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 4: you're going to let these kids just completely lose themselves

843
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 4: and it's hard. It's hard to figure out what to

844
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 4: do now. But I think if we can get more

845
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 4: people on board with conversations about what could decolonization look

846
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 4: like and what could a place that's not assimilating anymore

847
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 4: look like, and we might have a more equitable place.

848
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take let's take another quick break.

849
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: We'll be right back, and we're back.

850
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: Uh.

851
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you about representation in the media.

852
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: Killers of the Flower Moon is out right now. Lots

853
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 3: of stories going around about that film. You and I've

854
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 3: talked a lot about reservation dogs and about the impact

855
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: that has had on you, and you know, I'm curious,

856
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 3: as you know, I think a lot of like in

857
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 3: my community, we talk a lot about seeing black boy

858
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 3: joy first time. A lot of times black men are

859
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: either depicted as being very hard or the femal system

860
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 3: or trying to overcome civil rights. Usually like these are

861
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 3: the spaces you can occupy as a black man. So

862
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: seeing you know, black dudes get to be silly and

863
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 3: goofy and funny with each other. There's an element of

864
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: recognization like, oh no, that's actually what my family and

865
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: my friends look like. There's a feeling of at least

866
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 3: for speaking just for myself, like hopefulness of oh this

867
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 3: is something cool that children can watch and see themselves,

868
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: because I remember when there was almost nothing on TV

869
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: for me to watch where people looked like and as

870
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: we're seeing I think more obviously not enough indigenous representation

871
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 3: in medias're like, what is feeling good for you? How

872
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: are you feeling vollkulors of the flower moon? And what

873
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: do you hope the future of indigenous representation looks like?

874
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, gonna cheese. Everyone should just go see reservation docs,

875
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 4: like that's that's a good like starting point. Just get

876
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 4: into indigenous stories and indigenous television. It's such a wonderful

877
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 4: and groundbreaking thing to have. And but also like it's

878
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 4: not quite mainstreamed, you know, it kind of is what

879
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 4: you got to have a Hulu subscription, I think. And

880
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 4: so it's and maybe we're beyond the days of what

881
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 4: sort of these types of shows would have been and

882
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 4: you could do a lot more if it's not on

883
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 4: broadcast television. So I get that because you know, you

884
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 4: could have shit ass in there like a million times,

885
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: and so which is what they call each other, and

886
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 4: so as indigenous peoples as well, Like sometimes you have

887
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 4: these endearing terms that a lot of people might be

888
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 4: offended by. But some of the things I think about,

889
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 4: like I understand the conversations about, you know, is this

890
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 4: just trauma porn for white people where they get to

891
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 4: watch us suffer, and you know, and it does. It's

892
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 4: triggering to see Native women. There's whole movements about missing

893
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 4: and murdered Indigenous women because Indigenous women, they experience violence

894
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: at rates per capita higher than probably anybody in the

895
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 4: United States, and eighty percent of those perpetrators are white.

896
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 4: And you know, when there was a study that came

897
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 4: out from the Department of Justice that said that, like,

898
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 4: if you look at major sort of racial groups in

899
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 4: the United States, Native Americans are the only ones who

900
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 4: experience the majority of violent crimes from outside their own group,

901
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 4: and it's by white perpetrators. And so it's very difficult

902
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 4: to see. But I remember when the Watch Sahman series

903
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 4: came out on HBO, and like, how many people got

904
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 4: alerted to the Tulsa race massacre and would they have

905
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 4: known about that otherwise? And so to have a production

906
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 4: like this and say you got to see how brutal

907
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 4: these white people were, and I started to get really

908
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 4: interested once I started seeing the trailers and they're saying

909
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 4: they're using this book and saying like, can you can

910
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 4: you see the wolf? Can you see the wolf? Or

911
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 4: something like that, right, and they're really and then they

912
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 4: showed these pictures of these white guys and I look

913
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:33,959
Speaker 4: at that old pitia.

914
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, those those guys are all bad.

915
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 4: And then to sort of see these characters and what

916
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 4: they would do to try and get the land, because

917
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 4: to get the land you have to engage in complete

918
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 4: in humanity again, coming back to that, and I think

919
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 4: it's important to have that conversation.

920
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: And it's tough.

921
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 4: It's tough to sort of say, Okay, do we have

922
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 4: to have a white guy come and tell our story

923
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 4: and do we have to have of these prominent white

924
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 4: characters in there, especially male characters, And the answer is

925
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 4: probably yes, because I don't know if there's an if

926
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 4: there's a feature film about just Native people, it's going

927
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 4: to go direct to it's a direct to DVD thing,

928
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 4: whatever the whatever the equivalent of that is, and so

929
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 4: that that's for the indigenous eyes and we need that,

930
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 4: we need those types of movies. But I think we

931
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: also need some movies that are going to push it

932
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 4: into the national conversation as well, because we have someone,

933
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: you know, if you look at Lily Gladstone, her performances

934
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 4: as out of this world. It's amazing. And to see

935
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 4: her walking around with you know, big time actors and

936
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 4: big time movie makers is incredible because there's going to

937
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: be Native people out there and say, oh, I could

938
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 4: do that, and then maybe that opens the door for

939
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 4: a Native production, and maybe that opens the door for

940
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 4: a Native story to hit that level of you know,

941
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 4: and I hate to use those sort of stepping stone

942
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 4: type of metaphors, sure, but that door's not open for us.

943
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 4: It just isn't. But it's starting to get open. So

944
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 4: we have children's shows like Malia of Dnale and I've

945
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 4: been a cultural consultant and a writer on that show

946
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 4: for since it began almost and so it's been really

947
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 4: amazing that my children could turn on PBS and there's

948
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 4: a lead character who's an Alaska Native girl and she's

949
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 4: got agency, and she's smart, and she's cool and she's funny,

950
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 4: and so we're able to sort of like break some

951
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 4: of the stereotypes through the children's programming. And then hopefully

952
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: by time those kids are grown up, they're like what

953
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 4: they used to not be, like major motion pictures about

954
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 4: Native people. That's crazy, yeah, you know. And so because

955
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 4: we go back to like Dances with Wolves, which is groundbreaking, yes,

956
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 4: but it's about two white people who fall in love

957
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 4: in Native America, and then we've got wind River, which

958
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 4: is groundbreaking. Yes, it's about two white people who fall

959
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 4: in love in Native America. So I'm like, well, being

960
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 4: a background your own story, Yeah, there's two white people

961
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 4: didn't fall in love in this movie. Like it's like, okay,

962
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 4: we just get crumbs. We'll make what makes a fucking

963
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 4: damn good pie these chroms and we have for Thanksgiving dinner.

964
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 4: But it's a little bit more than like take what

965
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 4: we can get, because there's a lot of consultation in

966
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 4: this film. And what I hope is that people will

967
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 4: watch it because the other the danger is that people say,

968
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 4: I don't want to watch it because just a white

969
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 4: guy tells these stories. I don't want to watch it

970
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 4: because it's people. There's violence against Native people there, and

971
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 4: that's triggering, and it is like get yourself ready. It's

972
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 4: also three hours, three and a half hours long figure

973
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 4: out like don't drink a whole bunch of water before

974
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 4: you go in. But also if people don't go then

975
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 4: it just allows Hollywood to say I told you people

976
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 4: don't watch movies Native people.

977
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

978
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 3: And I also think you know, you're just speaking for myself,

979
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 3: seeing like in the Micainia have similar conversations around like

980
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 3: slaves narratives. People are like, we are always depicted as slaves,

981
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 3: which I think is a slight exaggeration, but I hear you,

982
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: and then there's frustration at that and as like, I'm

983
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 3: not to me personally, I'm not ashamed to come from

984
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: people who were enslaved. I'm not ashamed of our survival.

985
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 3: I'm not ashamed of how we were able to take

986
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: that experience and evolve as a community and survive and

987
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: thrive and be where we are now. None of that,

988
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: to me is shameful or something I want to look

989
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 3: away from. I am exhausted by slave narratives that focus

990
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 3: specifically on like demonic white masters. Specifically. I'm tired of

991
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: seeing enslaved people depicted only by the grueling work they

992
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: were forced to endure, when we know that we were

993
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 3: writing beautiful music, when we know we were dancing and

994
00:54:54,600 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 3: having loving relationships, and there was culture preserved and created

995
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 3: during this time, and I think a lot of people

996
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 3: I understand the instinct to be like, I don't want

997
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 3: to invest in anything that makes my culture look less

998
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 3: than or that doesn't aspire to our best selves. For example,

999
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 3: some people had a real problem with Like Boys in

1000
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 3: the Hood when it came out, even though we know

1001
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,919
Speaker 3: that film is a masterpiece, where they were like, you're

1002
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: just showing like young kids doing gang violence. Why would

1003
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 3: you want to promote that. It's like, well, people are

1004
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: actually living and leading these lives, and exploring them and

1005
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 3: giving them humanity allows you to understand why when you

1006
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 3: see you know, there was a murder and Compton tonight,

1007
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 3: you can't just write it off as like, oh, that's

1008
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 3: what happens there. They're individual beings and it's important to

1009
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: examine that. And I think you know to your point

1010
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: earlier about these horrifying schools. The first time I ever

1011
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 3: saw that depicted in media was in the Netflix and

1012
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: a green Gable series, which I think came out like

1013
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, if I'm not mistaken, and it was so

1014
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 3: like it brings you to you because it's like, Oh,

1015
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 3: there's this happy story about this orphan and she finds

1016
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 3: a good family and it's kind of rough for her.

1017
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 3: Oh she made a friend with like this indigenous girl

1018
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 3: who is also like living and thriving with her family,

1019
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,959
Speaker 3: and then in the middle of the last season, she's

1020
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 3: just taken and you're like, wait, what's happening? And you

1021
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 3: kept like, at least I kept expecting, like, oh, there

1022
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 3: will be a resolution to this, Like they will win

1023
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 3: because it's Anna Green Gables and she's plucky and she

1024
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 3: can do it. And what I really admired about that show,

1025
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 3: for you know, that has faut It's not a perfect show,

1026
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 3: but what I admired about that show is its ability

1027
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: to be like, no, it wasn't resolved and it was

1028
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 3: just horrible, and her parents had to leave the land

1029
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 3: so that they could just camp outside of her school

1030
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 3: in the hopes that they could be close to her

1031
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 3: and one day find a resolution. And I think when

1032
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: we get visual representation like that, it's like sometimes, you know,

1033
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 3: people's best access to these stories is through entertainment media.

1034
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot we can say about that

1035
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: versus the educational system goes and where we should be

1036
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 3: learning these things, but knowing that, you know, I think

1037
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 3: getting a variety of stories that explore both the trying

1038
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 3: times we've had and the weird, awesome, amaze and places

1039
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 3: we are now. I think I just think it's like

1040
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: vitally important.

1041
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think for some for a lot of

1042
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 4: Indigenous people, and you know, I'm not going to speak

1043
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 4: for anybody, but sometimes I wonder like, are you mad

1044
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 4: because you're seeing this thing that happened to people? Are

1045
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 4: you mad about the movie itself? Because sometimes it's hard

1046
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 4: to separate that stuff because we don't get our story

1047
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 4: really told on big, big screens where these are. You know,

1048
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 4: there's a whole bunch of commercials about this, there's a

1049
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 4: whole bunch of press, and I know the writers strike,

1050
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 4: which I'm glad it happened because there needs to be

1051
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 4: equity for folks who are working in the movie industry.

1052
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 4: But it also just it impacted the opening of this

1053
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 4: film because you know, they couldn't really heavily promote it,

1054
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 4: and especially actors who were in it. But I think

1055
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 4: people should engage in it and people should should go.

1056
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 4: But I think also there's there's movies like Skins and

1057
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 4: smoke signals and on tanajuat the Fast Runner, and even

1058
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 4: outside of North America, there's a film called Rabbit Proof Fence,

1059
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 4: Like if you want to really get the boarding school experience,

1060
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 4: like watch that movie. It is heartbreaking and incredible. It's

1061
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 4: about these these kids who were taken from boarding school

1062
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 4: and they they run away and it's it's amazing. It's

1063
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 4: based on a true story. They have the you get

1064
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 4: to see images of these little girls as the elders

1065
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 4: that they became. And you know, and when we think

1066
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 4: about our elders, when we think about our ability to

1067
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 4: stand up and speak our language, and we just had

1068
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 4: a cultural ceremony this weekend, it was wonderful, like we

1069
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: can do that stuff because people went to these boarding

1070
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: schools and found a way to be themselves. They found

1071
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 4: a way to hold on to who they are and

1072
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 4: what they are. And when we look at some of

1073
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 4: the things and Killers of the Flower Moon, like, there

1074
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 4: was an incredible amount of Indigenous agency in that film,

1075
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 4: which I think, you know, that's what brought the FBI there,

1076
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 4: and I think there was a real temptation, probably because

1077
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 4: once the FBI stepped in, it was like, oh is

1078
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 4: this gonna be about this guy, and it kind of

1079
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 4: wasn't like it was like a still kind of a

1080
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 4: side character. And you know, there's certainly things that I

1081
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 4: would I would want more out of, Like I just

1082
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 4: wanted more Indigenous depth and character. But there was a

1083
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 4: lot of depth and there was a lot of character,

1084
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 4: and so I think it's for me.

1085
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: I look at it.

1086
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is a worthwhile thing, and this is

1087
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 4: a thing that I hope gets people talking and that

1088
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 4: they think about what happened to these people who did it?

1089
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 4: What happened to the people who did it, because even

1090
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 4: though you know, the FBI gets involved and there's investigations,

1091
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 4: like white people get away with things back then and

1092
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 4: they still do now.

1093
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1094
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like every time you come on, we

1095
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: say like that we could keep talking for hours. In

1096
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: this case, we're breaking a record because we only got

1097
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: to the search history. We didn't even get to the

1098
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: Overrated or Untraded within the first hour. But yeah, I

1099
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: mean truly until next time, because I feel like we

1100
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: could just keep this conversation going indefinitely. But yeah, thank you,

1101
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. This has been an amazing conversation.

1102
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: Where can people find you and follow you and hear

1103
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: you and all that good stuff. Who nae.

1104
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the Tongue Unbroken does come out season two

1105
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:27,479
Speaker 4: so excited is coming out in mid January, and we've

1106
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 4: got I've just been able to really track down some

1107
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 4: great people and have some amazing conversations with them, and

1108
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 4: so like this is this is just a taste of

1109
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 4: some of the stuff that we're doing. We're really trying

1110
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 4: to like just keep it casual and also enjoyable because

1111
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 4: these conversations are difficult, but that doesn't mean you can't

1112
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 4: have fun and still laugh and enjoy life and think

1113
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 4: about a potentially brighter future.

1114
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: But you can find me on.

1115
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 4: Twitter what is it x Twitter?

1116
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter, which is right and

1117
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: tell you by a fascist Twitter the end of the

1118
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: search box stops working, and then maybe I'll change what

1119
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: I refer to it as.

1120
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 4: But right I'm not as active on there, just because

1121
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 4: it's such a disappointment that a racist person can just

1122
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 4: buy the whole thing. But you know, it's also go

1123
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 4: America what you're all about? And I'm also on Facebook

1124
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 4: and Instagram. I find me under my think at names,

1125
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 4: which we'll just have to link to it's funny or

1126
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 4: do anicao danuk And then I would say the piece

1127
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 4: of media. I don't know if you ask about that,

1128
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 4: and you guys usually do I do.

1129
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a work of media that you've been enjoying.

1130
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a comedian Sheng Wang who has this opening.

1131
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 4: I think it's it's in his comedy act on Netflix.

1132
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 4: It's about Costco is bigger than all of us. It's

1133
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 4: so funny, like just really going into like you haven't

1134
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 4: really given up on life until you walk around in

1135
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 4: some Kirkland pants and he is. So it's so hilarious,

1136
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 4: so funny, and you could find it on social media,

1137
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 4: but they they cut all the space out of in

1138
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 4: between his talking, which kind of drove me a little nuts.

1139
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: It's like just like yeah that YouTube edit, hurry yeah,

1140
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: Like have you seen the YouTube ddit of Killers of

1141
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: the Flower Moon. It's like forty five minutes. It's just

1142
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: every every space, just all words just from together. I'm

1143
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: not a fan of the YouTube d like, let there

1144
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: be space.

1145
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 3: We need silence.

1146
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: I just want to say about The Tongue Unbroken. I

1147
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: was re listening to season one this weekend. One of

1148
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: the things I love about it is getting to hear

1149
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: you interact with, you know, other teachers of children and

1150
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: like talk about your experience teaching your own children and

1151
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: children in general, and then getting you to getting to

1152
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: hear you interact with your kids. There's just like this gentle,

1153
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: lovely energy. And as I was listening to that, my

1154
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: own children, like I was just kind of sitting in

1155
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: bed listening to that, it was bedtime, and my own

1156
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: children just like ran over to me where I was

1157
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: laying in bed and lay on me and started to

1158
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: fart on me while telling me that they were farting

1159
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: on me and that I was their bed, and so

1160
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: it was just a real it was like listening to this,

1161
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: oh man, I aspired like this lovely energy, and then

1162
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: my kids were like, you know, letting me know that

1163
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: I was their bed and they were free to fart

1164
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: on me whenever they wanted.

1165
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 4: It sounds about right. I really love working with teachers

1166
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 4: because we could joke about all this kind of stuff.

1167
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 4: We're like, you know, someone put up a meme and

1168
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 4: they'd say Native people in public, the children are our

1169
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 4: future Native people at home, Dan, these kids are messy.

1170
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: Joel, thank you so much for joining and co hosting

1171
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: with me today. Where can people find you? Follow you?

1172
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: And what is work a media you've.

1173
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 3: Been enjoying y'all mean Joel Monique find me all over

1174
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 3: the internet at Joel Monique. It's j O E L

1175
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 3: L E M O N I q u E pieces.

1176
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 3: I've been reading a lot. I think you talk about

1177
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 3: this last time I was on. I've been picking up

1178
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 3: more books, reading a lot, listening to a lot of

1179
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 3: audio books. Ar Kong wrote this absolute stunner. It's called

1180
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 3: Babbel or The Necessity of Violence, which is a fictionalized

1181
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 3: history of translators at Oxford, a school she actually attended,

1182
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 3: I think especially got her master's degree. And it's it's

1183
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 3: a lot about about a lot of things, but essentially,

1184
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 3: a boy is created in China and brought back by

1185
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: a professor who says, hey, you've got just enough language

1186
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: to translate, but I've removed you early enough that you

1187
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 3: have no connection to your culture. You'll now translate all

1188
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 3: of your language for me so I can use it

1189
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,919
Speaker 3: as I need to basically invade China. And he has

1190
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 3: to figure out he's raised in Europe in England, trying

1191
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 3: to figure out who he is as an individual. He

1192
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 3: gets to school and meets a lot of other kids

1193
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 3: who are similar to him, and his world explodes, and

1194
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: yet he's still under some of this horrible professor. And

1195
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 3: it talks about what is revolution, how does it happen?

1196
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 3: When is violence a necessity? And what does that do

1197
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 3: to the soul? And it's so beautiful and difficult, but

1198
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 3: ultimately I think inspiring feels like a weak word, but

1199
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 3: it really set me a light. I love that book.

1200
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 3: I like it's one of the books. I'm like, I

1201
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: can't wait to read this.

1202
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: It's too soon.

1203
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 3: I don't want to burn out on it. But I

1204
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 3: really really enjoy reading it. And ar Quang I think

1205
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 3: just hit thirty. This is her fourth book. They're all phenomenal.

1206
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 3: She's an incredible, incredible writer. So if you have time,

1207
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 3: if you're into reading Babbel or The Necessity of Violence,

1208
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 3: I highly recommend it.

1209
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1210
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: That sounds amazing and intense. It's so good. You can

1211
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien Working Media.

1212
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: I've been enjoying kim at Kimmy Monty tweeted the person

1213
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: who named tits really nailed it.

1214
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 3: Success.

1215
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: You find us on Twitter at Daily Zeigeist. We're at

1216
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage

1217
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: and a website Daily zeikeist dot com, where we post

1218
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: our episodes and our footnotes link off to the information

1219
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 1: that we talked about in today's episode, as well as

1220
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: a song that we think you might enjoy. A super

1221
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: producer Justin is there a song that you think people

1222
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: might enjoy? First of all, if you listen to the

1223
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: new Andre three thousand, Yes, that.

1224
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 5: Was actually one of the songs I was gonna recommend. Yeah, yeah,

1225
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 5: So New Blue Sun just came out on Friday.

1226
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

1227
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 5: I know people really wanted a rap album from Andre,

1228
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 5: but still do.

1229
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1230
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 5: I mean, but I love the fact that his take

1231
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 5: on this is I'm forty eight, I don't be knowing

1232
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 5: what to talk about, you know, And it's just I

1233
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 5: love that self awareness and a lot of other artists

1234
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 5: should take note.

1235
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 1: This is a very meditative, ethereal.

1236
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 5: Song and the title of the track is a mouthful

1237
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 5: that in honor of hun being here. It also posits

1238
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 5: a linguistic question, not one you need to answer, but

1239
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,959
Speaker 5: a question nonetheless. It's called the slang word pussy rolls

1240
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 5: off the tongue with far better ease than the proper

1241
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 5: word vagina.

1242
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 2: Do you agree?

1243
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 5: And both the statement and follow up is maybe something

1244
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 5: you can ponder as you sit back, relax and explore

1245
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 5: with this damn near fifteen minute long song has to offer.

1246
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: Wow, the whole album is incredible. By the way, me

1247
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: saying I still want to rap aubum from them doesn't

1248
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: mean that I don't appreciate this. As we talked about

1249
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: on Yesterday's a Weekend Trending episode, it's an incredible word. Yes,

1250
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: and it's exactly what you because you you wouldn't be

1251
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: able to predict what was going to come from him,

1252
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: So in that way, this is the predictable thing that

1253
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: would come from three thousand. It's like that some somehow

1254
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: so perfect, unpredictable, exactly right.

1255
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 5: And exactly what the world needs right now. Yes, it's

1256
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 5: very calming. If you really need to relax, just please

1257
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 5: this on and turn your brain off and you can

1258
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 5: find this song in the footnook.

1259
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: And who do you agree? Because yeah, well so song.

1260
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 4: The thing it word for for vagina is goose. And

1261
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 4: so sometimes around here, like we got to sort of stop,

1262
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 4: kids are playing duck duck goose, we got to step

1263
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 4: in out, you know what, Like our kids are going

1264
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 4: to have a really different interpretation of how this game

1265
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 4: is working. Or a someone says, oh, yeah, silly goose,

1266
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 4: and well yeah, if we're all over here chuckling, then.

1267
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 1: You know what's going on.

1268
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's a nicer term, I think, and so amazing.

1269
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: Well we will link off to that song in the footnotes.

1270
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeart Radio. For

1271
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1272
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,959
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1273
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for us this morning,

1274
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and

1275
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all then.

1276
01:08:58,400 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 2: Bye.

1277
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: Two children, A two children,