WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Hinterkaifeck Murders 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.480 Thinking Sideways is not supported by badgers on balloons. Instead, 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.520 it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.639 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:21.239 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't I'm not going you 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:28.520 never know stories of things we simply don't know the 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:34.040 answer too. Hi there, welcome again to another episode of 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.639 Thinking Sideways in a week. Yeah, this is uh, this 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:43.199 is the second one this week. So this episode Happy Thursday, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.200 the bonus on Thursday. As you all know, we're doing 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.559 Thinking Sideways most wanted the episodes you all have been 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.920 asking us about for years now, this is one of 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.280 them we've been too lazy to do. Basically, Yeah, yeah, 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.760 this is the this is like shocking. I'm actually I 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.440 was surprised that this wasn't the number one number one. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.440 It is the tie for the first runner up. Yeah 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:15.840 it is, you means second place. Yeah, but yeah, definitely. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:17.920 We've gotten a lot of emails about this one for 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.480 the past couple of years and even just this week. Yeah, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.960 any of them. Yeah, I admit it's kind of a 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.520 cool little mystery. But well let's let's just talk about it, Okay, 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.800 you ready? Oh, By the way, I totally forgot to 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.560 introduce myself and my lovely co hosts. I'm Joe, joined 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.640 as always by Steve And Okay, you met us earlier 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.080 this week. Yeah, you know, he wouldn't know us now. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.600 I probably don't need to really be saying that, but yeah, 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.080 you know us by now. But let's let's go on 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.559 with our mystery. Yeah. This, uh, this took place almost 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.360 a hundred years ago on a farm in Bavaria, which 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.960 is located near the village of wongan In in Bavaria. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.360 Of course, it was part of the farmstead called Kaik 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.000 and I'm not sure exactly how that got that name, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.400 and then the farm was called hinter Kaifek for some reason. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.840 That means ter me behind, so we're behind the town 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.200 they were behind the Kaek. I don't know. Well, German 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.840 is a language that co cantonates, so that was a 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.680 big words. You know what co canton is, right, How 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.800 do you know a word? I don't know. Co canton 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.280 It is a something you use in Excel. It's the 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.200 name of a formula. Yeah, but co cantonate. It's also 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.079 it's something to do with languages where you literally merged 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:40.280 the two words to shove twenty words together to make 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.239 the town name that is so long it doesn't fit 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.040 on one road side. Like these things happen, that's how 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.280 it got the name. Yeah, there's long words in German. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.200 Have no doubt about that. Anyway, back to our story. Uh, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.320 this farm was inhabited by the Grewber family, which was 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.920 fairly well known in the area. I'll give you their names. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.760 Andreas Grewer sixty three. His wife Cazelia was seventy two. 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.680 Their daughter, Victoria Gabrielle, was thirty five. She had two kids, 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.760 Gazelia seven and Joseph, who was two, and he also 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.000 had a maid, Maria Baumgartner forty four. Victoria was a 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.840 widow her husband, Carl, Carl Gabrielle was killed in nineteen 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.520 fourteen and World War One, although there's been a little 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.440 contention about that. Carl. Carl's family, by the way, was 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.680 from the area. He was from a neighboring farms. That's 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.000 how you met people back then. It really is. Yeah, crazy, Yeah, 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.840 you know, the Internet wasn't a thing. Yeah, there was 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.040 no okay keeping Yeah, he just had to make do 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:47.160 with a very tiny pool village. Yeah. Uh so Andre's 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.720 gruber was ahead of the family, of course, and he 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.520 was actually not that well liked. Yeah, he was an unfriendly, 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.040 loner kind of guy. Not He beat his wife on 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.640 a regular basis, also abused his children. Uh. And he 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.240 was all very highly suspected of committing incest with his 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.480 daughter Victoria. Also cool, Yeah, I know, a great guy. Uh. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.600 And in fact the nine both Andreas and Victoria were 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.120 tried and convicted for incests and they both went off 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.080 to the pokey for a while. She got a really 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.520 short sentence, she only got a month and he got 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.240 a year. And I don't think they were allowed to 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:28.560 share the same cell. I'm I'm just distressed that she 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.000 was also convicted for that. Like she was like, oh yeah, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.240 dad looked like I don't know that. Well, she was 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:39.800 an adult though she would have been like her. But 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.479 his wife was nine years older than him and was 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.280 still getting beat up by him. I mean, was his 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:51.000 wife Causilia? Was she right? Was that his first wife 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.400 or his second wife? Because I swore I read somewhere 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.159 it was his second wife, But I could be making 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.000 that up, you know, I don't know, that's a good question. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.600 I hadn't know that but I don't, but he probably 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.000 you know, quite often in those days, you know, you 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.040 have a wife, she died in childbirth, and then you 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.119 get another wife. You know, it happened along the story 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.880 how it happens. I know where Devon's coming from with 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.920 the why is Victoria in trouble for this? Because typically 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.320 this is a kind of behavior that starts very early on. Yeah, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.520 it's early behavior, and it's not necessarily voluntary behavior. Correct. Yeah, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.920 at least in the beginning and later on you don't 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.080 know any better, and it may be a case of 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.480 she didn't know any better. Yeah, that's could have been 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:38.040 going on. Let's get away from this subject. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.320 back to I don't really like talking about incest anyway. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.040 That we'll talk about it a little bit more anyway. 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.960 But uh see, Andreas, besides being abusive, was also a 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.880 control freak and he and this might have been because 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.000 he of sexual jealousy of a Victoria, but maybe because 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.560 he was a control freak or a combination there. But 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.919 he told Victoria that she was forbidden to marry again, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.640 and he kept her a short leash, and in general 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.720 of the family was kind of sullen, reclusive and just 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.640 not that well liked. Victoria's reputation was a little better 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.360 because she's saying in the church choir. She had a 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.200 good voice apparently, although how you know, she was also 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.320 kind of promiscuous and back in those days, you know 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.360 you think that. Well, case in Point Rach in nineteen 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.720 twenty two, she had a two year old despite the 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.520 fact that her husband died in nineteen fourteen. So let's 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:34.120 just point that mouth out. Yeah, you know, that seems important. Yeah, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.040 and there was there was some question about who the 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:38.920 father of the kid was, if it was her her 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.000 dad Andreas, or if it was a neighbor or several 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.600 other men from around the town who claimed to have 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.240 had relations with her. Yeah. Well, anyway, back to our 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.520 little mystery here at the farm, things started getting kind 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.520 of strange. In ninety one there made suddenly quit her 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.040 job and left. Uh and not Maria, her name was 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.280 not Maria. Yeah, and asked why she suddenly decided to 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.640 leave so leave, the maid said that she'd been hearing 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.680 strange voices and noises in and around the house and 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.240 sounds of footsteps from the attic. She was convinced that 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.640 the house was haunted, and so she quit and yeah, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.960 the group was tracted up to mental illness, but the 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.680 source of all this was the groupers themselves, so it 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.680 may be that they were asking about it, they made 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.040 this up. And maybe the real reason she left was 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.160 because Gruber was Andreas Gruber was abusive towards her or 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.920 or coming onto her. Or perhaps she got wind of 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.800 the incests and that kind of turned her off and 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.560 she decided to leave. It's hard to say if that's that. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:44.080 Stuff about the maid think in the place was yeah, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.559 But it also seems like that's a weird thing to 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.240 say about why she left. Like, if you get to 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.360 make up whatever story you want, why wouldn't you just 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.160 say like she wanted to go to a warm and 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.960 climate because wait, wait, no, I need to say this, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.520 but I'm gonna I'm gonna put us into the mindset 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.520 of a very controlling man. In the nineteen twenties, women 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.080 are hysterical. It's a common thing to call it for 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.360 to say that woman is hysterical, meaning she's mentally unstable, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.800 and everybody's like, oh, yeah, no, you're right, that women 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.040 are Yeah, then you just say, I don't know she 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:19.960 was crazy, I don't know why she left. You don't say, like, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.400 but I don't know our house is haunted. Yeah. People 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.000 also always volunteered too much, especially when they're lying. As 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.440 it turns off. And then degree Wers actually could have 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.680 been telling the truth. Maybe she really maybe she really 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.960 was just mentally ill. And then I really thought the 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.760 house was haunted, or maybe the house really was haunted. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.800 I don't know, probably not. It's about six months later 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.240 things kind of got stranger. This is after the maid left. Yeah, 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.079 the six months after she left. This is in March. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.960 Andreas was outside after a snowstorm and he found some 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.600 footprints in the snow that originated in the forest and 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.280 came across their property and right up to the house. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.880 And he searched all around. He circled the house and 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:02.240 the barn and everything, and could not find tracks going 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.000 back to the woods. Yeah. I heard in one account. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:10.360 I heard that the footprints originated at the forest, not 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.839 coming from the forest, just appeared as though they'd been 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:18.959 dropped the forest. I thought that was a fun little 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.600 addition to the story. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, some of 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.800 this stuff apparently, uh he did, he did talk about 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.040 some of his neighbors about some of this stuff. At first, 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.280 I was like a little bit skeptical of some of 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.480 some of this, but I think that apparently a lot 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.520 of this did happen, because there's been a lot of 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.679 a lot of absurd stuff also inserted into the story 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.160 as usual, and that's yeah, Yeah, I'm really desperately trying 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.080 not to be the wet blanket on this one today. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.679 I've actually been kind of a wet blanket on the 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.679 entire most wanted Yeah, well we all have there's a 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.880 reason we haven't done them yet. Well, so at this point, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.520 he did the next obvious thing, which is he searched 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.440 the house, and he also searched the barn in the 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.760 tool shed, and it didn't find any signs of an intruder. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.240 And also no more footprints. No more footprints. Yeah, and uh, 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.920 a night, I don't know if it was that night 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.360 or something. Sometimes shortly thereafter, he woke up to strange 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.160 noises coming from the attic, and he grabs the lantern 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.000 and heads up there and searches the attic found found 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.480 nobody hiding there and nothing going on, and so it 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.560 seemed like there was a trespasser. He advantaged what the 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.240 noises from the attic were probably squirrels. You know, I 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.360 don't know creat it could have been. It could have 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.080 been creators, rats, squirrels, whatever. And then a few mornings 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.640 after that, Andrea sound a newspaper from Munich on his porch. 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.200 Nobody in the family had bought this newspaper or read 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:47.080 this newspaper. Yeah, and stomachcounts. He found the newspaper at 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.960 the edge of the forest again to also but yeah, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.000 apparently the newspaper again was something I took with a 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.120 grain of salt, but apparently it was actually true. He 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.320 asked the local post man if anybody in the village 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.680 had ever received this newspaper, and the postman said no, 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.640 I did not recognize it. Interesting. Yeah, another creepy thing. 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.439 Victoria noticed a strange man standing at the edge of 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.640 the forest watching the farm. Later, Andreas also noticed a 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.160 man in the woods watching the farm. Yeah, kind of creepy. 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.240 And then March thirtie, a set of keys to the 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.240 house disappeared, and they had two sets of keys apparently. 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.240 And then and he keep again repeated this to one 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.520 of his neighbors. I can't remember which one. This is 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.400 all discovered later by the police when they interviewed everybody 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.200 in the area, uh, when he was searching or the 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.120 farm for the keys, because obviously they could have been 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.440 dropped to anywhere in the barnyard or the barn or wherever. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.800 And so he found that the lock to the tool 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.000 shed was all scratched up, as if somebody had tried 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:48.680 to jimmy it or pick it. Yeah. I've been told 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.400 that Andreas told most of the stuff to his neighbor, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.640 Lawrence Schlittenbauer, although I'm not sure if that was true. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.040 It appeared to me that he and Schlittenbauer were not 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.000 actually on great terms. But you don't have to necessary 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.760 only be on great terms with somebody to talk to him. Yeah, yeah, sure, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:11.000 especially when weird hanky stuff is happening. Yeah yeah, especially 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.920 maybe if he Maybe it's that Andreas was suspicious of 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:16.760 his neighbor. You know, every once in a while, if 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.120 you're suspicious of somebody, you'll do that like, hey, you know, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.319 by the way, some strange stuff, some weird stuff going on, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.880 It wouldn't happen to see the set of keys. Suspicious 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.040 people do sometimes when they say like hey, this it's 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.520 it's the weirdest thing. This thing happened. It's the equivalent of, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.200 you know, like texting your boyfriend. I just think it's 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.920 funny that, right. You don't Okay, you don't text your 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.680 boyfriend that thing? Nope, never have cool I mean either. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.959 That's why you're married. Now sorry Gay Back to their 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.400 story here. Yeah, that's so the neighbor Schlittenbauer just as 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.360 a side here. One of the reasons things weren't all 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.160 that great is that Schlittenbauer had been courting Andreas's daughter, Victoria, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.640 and I don't know how far that went. Victoria actually 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:14.120 said that Schlittenbauer was the father of their two year 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.440 old Joseph. Yeah, although everybody in town believe that Joseph 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.840 was actually fathered by Andreas. But yeah, and uh, and 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.000 then there's Schlittenbauer actually denied it. He accepted the first 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:30.199 and denied it U and and so and of course 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.200 when he offered to marry her, Andreast forbide the whole 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.200 thing and very emphatically. And so that's why things weren't 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.680 so hot between them. But again, I don't know exactly 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.240 how how deep the hostility was. Okay, so that was 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.000 March thirties when the keys were lost on March thirty one, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.120 a new maid, Maria Baumgartner, arrived to replace the one 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.520 that had left six months earlier. That house must have 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:04.079 been filthy. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, I talked about bad timing. Yeah, seriously, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:08.400 she arrived just a few hours early before the unpleasantness began. Yeah. 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.839 The next day was a Saturday, and Gazalia, the seven 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.440 year old girl, Victoria's daughter, didn't show up for school, 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.400 so apparently they had six days of school back in 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.960 those days. And on Sunday the family didn't show up 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.360 for church. Then on Monday, April three, Gazilia again didn't 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.360 show up for school. And also the postman noticed that 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:29.040 nobody was collecting the mail, so, huh what happened? So Schlittenbauer, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.720 Lawrence Schlittenbauer, the neighbor, Uh, he got windows some of 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.440 this stuff because it's a small town that people are 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.760 all talking. And so he said his two sons by 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.600 the farm to check on the family. Uh. That was 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.800 on Tuesday, April fourth that they came back and said 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.400 they had walked around the farm and hadn't seen the 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.400 had seen the family and hadn't seen anything and really 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.840 out of place. Um. And then later on Schlittenbauer rounded 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.120 up a few more people and went over to check 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.920 the place out himself, and they did a more thorough search. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.240 And when it said opened the door or whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.560 maybe his sons didn't feel like it was really proper 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.400 for them to open the you know, go into the 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.960 barn or into the house. Here's the problem that I 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.880 have with the sons went over and then later on 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.240 a whole troop of people from the village. You go over, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.280 and then eventually the police are going to come. You've 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.640 got a gadget people marching around this place in the snow. 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.120 Oh yeah, yeah, there's there's no way. Yeah, what's happening. Yeah, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.760 it's like that's one of the things that makes it unsolved. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:31.040 That definitely the whole thing, doesn't it. Uh Yeah. Anyway, 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.200 So in the barn they found four bodies. It was 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:39.680 Andreas and his wife Bazilia, daughter Victoria, granddaughter Casilia had 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.280 all been bludging to death, bludging and chop attacked to 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.480 death with a pick axe. Although the murder weapon wasn't there. 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:47.400 All they all they knew it was that there were 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.400 these four bloody, battered bodies, some more bloody than others. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.840 Holes in their heads. Yeah, yeah, and uh, and then 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.400 their faces in some cases their jaws broken and faces torn, 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.960 all torn up and stuff. And they had all been 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.720 covered with hay stacked stacked on top of each other. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.680 I'm not sure why. They then went into the farmhouse 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.800 and found young Joseph two years old, dead in his 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.960 his cot in his mother's bedroom, and the maid, the 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.840 new made Maria, was also found dead in her bed. Uh. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.000 And they had been covered also, the maid with a 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.480 bed sheet and Joseph with one of his mother's skirts. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.520 So they kind so whoever did cover the body bodies 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.960 um And appears that granddaughter Kazilia didn't immediately die from 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.440 her bludgeonings, and the autopsy reveal that she probably had 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.880 lived two to four hours after getting her head injuries 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.000 because she pulled wads of hair out of her head, 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.520 because she was probably laying there probably you know, who knows, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.200 I mean, maybe she was paralyzed, partially paralyzed from you know, 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.280 getting blows to the head and you're sitting there and 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.200 you know, and you know, you're sort of laying there 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.920 helpless next to the dead bodies of your grandparents and 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.440 your mother. You know that'd be a stressful situation. Well, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.480 I was just thinking she might have I mean, I'm 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.760 not even thinking that she maybe did it on purpose. 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.560 But you're trying to move, if you're in a kind 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.040 of a semi paralytic state like that, you're trying to 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.840 move and you're grasping, and you're like, oh, I feel something. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.040 I can tell I've got a hold of something hard 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.639 holding on and then it gives way and then you're 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:17.520 there was something there. Let me go back for it 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.199 not being able to see what you're grabbing in. In 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.679 a lot of the accounts that I read, there was 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.760 some suspicion that she was not the last to have 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:30.760 been hit, that she didn't die, but that she perhaps 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:36.360 witnessed the murders of Yeah, they thought she was dead 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.960 and she wasn't, and so she witnessed it all. And 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.840 that's it's a fairly typical traumatic response, is the like 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.920 ye hair and yeah, they don't know actually what order 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:47.600 they were the four of the one were killed, and 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.480 so it could have been maybe Cazilia went out there first, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.399 or maybe Victoria and Casilia went out there first, and 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.320 then well they do they do suspect right, it was 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.200 one at a time, though, don't think. Well, yeah, but 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:58.680 there's no way to really know that. You know, it 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.520 could have been it could have been a couple first. 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.840 I think the only way to know that is the 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.359 lack of a sign of struggle. Yeah, it didn't appear 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.240 that anybody fought back, so you would assume that it 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.959 was one at a time. Yeah. Probably, they couldn't tell. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:12.639 But somebody goes out to the barn and then they 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.080 don't come back, and then somebody else, somebody else goes 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.760 out to check out them, they don't come back. You 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:19.880 think after the third or fourth time, people would sort 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.200 of like, you know, smarten up and take a gun 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.080 with them when they go out there. Well they stopped 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:28.280 going after the fourth one. Yeah, many of them. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.720 so that's pretty brutal. Yeah. Yeah, it was a very 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.080 vicious killing. So Schlittenbauer sent his sons to go get 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.159 the police. I don't know how far they had to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.480 go to find a police. I don't know if they 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.320 had to go down to the village or to one 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.960 of the larger villages nearby or what. But they had 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.000 on their way. They though they everybody they ran into, 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.200 they told them what had happened. Over a hinter k 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.000 and so it's this is a weird comparison, but you 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.199 know that I'm seen in love actually actually yeah, the 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.159 one right where he finally goes to propose to the 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.120 girl and he is not at the house and they 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.159 all walk through the village and every single by the 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.760 end of it, it's just like thousands of people standing there. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.200 I'm trying to lighten this situation here, you guys, come on. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.760 it was a lot of people granting, a lot of people. Yeah, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.880 lots of people. Was Hugh Grant, wasn't it. Oh? Yeah, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.520 So anyway, work work gets all around all over the village. 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.560 So everybody from the village, like you said, you know, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:32.280 comes up to the farm and tramples everything inside. Eventually 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.680 the police arrived and they started doing the usual thing, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.120 taking pictures and you know, and did they actually take pictures. Yeah, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.119 they took pictures, but they didn't draw a layout of 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.000 the barnery or yeah. That wasn't the most Yeah, yeah, 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:48.520 they didn't really draw the lay out. It wasn't the 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.560 best investigation, I don't think in terms of gathering fingerprints. 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.680 They did a real bang up job either. They did 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.240 search it pretty thoroughly. They even use canine units. Uh. 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.160 And they didn't find the murder weapon. Yeah. And then eventually, 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.800 at one point the Munich police were brought in because 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:10.080 obviously they were they were the big players and as 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:11.880 as far as I know, this might even still still 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.639 be an open case. But they question yeah, that's the question. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.280 A lot of suspects and the most recent one was 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.400 in six so they're still on the case, though obviously 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:25.920 not pursuing it quite as hard. There was a police 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.960 force class, yeah that looked into it. They've done. Yeah, 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.400 it's one of those those cases they use every now 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.240 and again. Yeah, there was one that was not so 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.480 long ago the way they like two seven. Yeah, and 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.040 they finally said, no, it's it's unsolvable. Yeah. Oh yeah, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.560 stop trying to solve it is unsolvable. Yeah. But the 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:47.920 report's interesting. Of course I don't read Germans, so i'd 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.120 use Google Translate, and it was lots of muffins involved. Yeah, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.320 it came out a little garbling. Yeah. I read that 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.800 one too. It's difficult. Yeah. Uh So back to the 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.280 to the police at the time, they finally concluded that 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.280 some person or persons had lured them out one by 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.000 one into the barn. Or again, maybe they just waited 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.840 out there for people to show up. It's it's a 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.120 it's a farm. People are gonna go out to the barn. Yeah, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.159 and so, yeah, they were at the lure, or they 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.359 just waited until they showed up and then murdered them 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.520 with the pick axe, after at which case of murderer 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.960 or murderers went to the farmhouse to finish off the 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.000 baby in the maid. This it was believed that Victoria 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.879 and Gazilia had been the first to arrive, most likely um, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.199 because they had not been dressed for bed when they 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.160 went up to investigate, and apparently the grandparents were uh, 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.439 so you know, most likely they were just you know, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.560 and then the grandparents went out later on to check 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.399 on one thing that was going on back Yeah. Uh. 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.280 Date of death was determined to be Friday, March thirty one, 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.600 but when police questioned the neighbors the neighbors, some of 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.360 the neighbors said that they had seen smoke coming out 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.440 of the chimney of the house over the entire weekend, 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.080 which was suggest as somebody had been home and somebody 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.159