1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,480
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by badgers on balloons. Instead,

2
00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,520
Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

3
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,639
Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

4
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't I'm not going you

5
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: never know stories of things we simply don't know the

6
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 1: answer too. Hi there, welcome again to another episode of

7
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,639
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways in a week. Yeah, this is uh, this

8
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: is the second one this week. So this episode Happy Thursday,

9
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,200
Speaker 1: the bonus on Thursday. As you all know, we're doing

10
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,559
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways most wanted the episodes you all have been

11
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: asking us about for years now, this is one of

12
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,280
Speaker 1: them we've been too lazy to do. Basically, Yeah, yeah,

13
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 1: this is the this is like shocking. I'm actually I

14
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: was surprised that this wasn't the number one number one.

15
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 1: It is the tie for the first runner up. Yeah

16
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,840
Speaker 1: it is, you means second place. Yeah, but yeah, definitely.

17
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,920
Speaker 1: We've gotten a lot of emails about this one for

18
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: the past couple of years and even just this week. Yeah,

19
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 1: any of them. Yeah, I admit it's kind of a

20
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: cool little mystery. But well let's let's just talk about it, Okay,

21
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: you ready? Oh, By the way, I totally forgot to

22
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,560
Speaker 1: introduce myself and my lovely co hosts. I'm Joe, joined

23
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: as always by Steve And Okay, you met us earlier

24
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 1: this week. Yeah, you know, he wouldn't know us now.

25
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: I probably don't need to really be saying that, but yeah,

26
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: you know us by now. But let's let's go on

27
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,559
Speaker 1: with our mystery. Yeah. This, uh, this took place almost

28
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,360
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago on a farm in Bavaria, which

29
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 1: is located near the village of wongan In in Bavaria.

30
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: Of course, it was part of the farmstead called Kaik

31
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure exactly how that got that name,

32
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 1: and then the farm was called hinter Kaifek for some reason.

33
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: That means ter me behind, so we're behind the town

34
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 1: they were behind the Kaek. I don't know. Well, German

35
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 1: is a language that co cantonates, so that was a

36
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 1: big words. You know what co canton is, right, How

37
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 1: do you know a word? I don't know. Co canton

38
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: It is a something you use in Excel. It's the

39
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: name of a formula. Yeah, but co cantonate. It's also

40
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 1: it's something to do with languages where you literally merged

41
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: the two words to shove twenty words together to make

42
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,239
Speaker 1: the town name that is so long it doesn't fit

43
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 1: on one road side. Like these things happen, that's how

44
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 1: it got the name. Yeah, there's long words in German.

45
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: Have no doubt about that. Anyway, back to our story. Uh,

46
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 1: this farm was inhabited by the Grewber family, which was

47
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,920
Speaker 1: fairly well known in the area. I'll give you their names.

48
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 1: Andreas Grewer sixty three. His wife Cazelia was seventy two.

49
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: Their daughter, Victoria Gabrielle, was thirty five. She had two kids,

50
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,760
Speaker 1: Gazelia seven and Joseph, who was two, and he also

51
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 1: had a maid, Maria Baumgartner forty four. Victoria was a

52
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 1: widow her husband, Carl, Carl Gabrielle was killed in nineteen

53
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 1: fourteen and World War One, although there's been a little

54
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: contention about that. Carl. Carl's family, by the way, was

55
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 1: from the area. He was from a neighboring farms. That's

56
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 1: how you met people back then. It really is. Yeah, crazy, Yeah,

57
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet wasn't a thing. Yeah, there was

58
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 1: no okay keeping Yeah, he just had to make do

59
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 1: with a very tiny pool village. Yeah. Uh so Andre's

60
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,720
Speaker 1: gruber was ahead of the family, of course, and he

61
00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: was actually not that well liked. Yeah, he was an unfriendly,

62
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 1: loner kind of guy. Not He beat his wife on

63
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 1: a regular basis, also abused his children. Uh. And he

64
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: was all very highly suspected of committing incest with his

65
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: daughter Victoria. Also cool, Yeah, I know, a great guy. Uh.

66
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: And in fact the nine both Andreas and Victoria were

67
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: tried and convicted for incests and they both went off

68
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 1: to the pokey for a while. She got a really

69
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: short sentence, she only got a month and he got

70
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: a year. And I don't think they were allowed to

71
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: share the same cell. I'm I'm just distressed that she

72
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: was also convicted for that. Like she was like, oh yeah,

73
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: dad looked like I don't know that. Well, she was

74
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 1: an adult though she would have been like her. But

75
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 1: his wife was nine years older than him and was

76
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,280
Speaker 1: still getting beat up by him. I mean, was his

77
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: wife Causilia? Was she right? Was that his first wife

78
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: or his second wife? Because I swore I read somewhere

79
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,159
Speaker 1: it was his second wife, But I could be making

80
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 1: that up, you know, I don't know, that's a good question.

81
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 1: I hadn't know that but I don't, but he probably

82
00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, quite often in those days, you know, you

83
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 1: have a wife, she died in childbirth, and then you

84
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,119
Speaker 1: get another wife. You know, it happened along the story

85
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: how it happens. I know where Devon's coming from with

86
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 1: the why is Victoria in trouble for this? Because typically

87
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: this is a kind of behavior that starts very early on. Yeah,

88
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: it's early behavior, and it's not necessarily voluntary behavior. Correct. Yeah,

89
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: at least in the beginning and later on you don't

90
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 1: know any better, and it may be a case of

91
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: she didn't know any better. Yeah, that's could have been

92
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 1: going on. Let's get away from this subject. Yeah, yeah,

93
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: back to I don't really like talking about incest anyway.

94
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,040
Speaker 1: That we'll talk about it a little bit more anyway.

95
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 1: But uh see, Andreas, besides being abusive, was also a

96
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: control freak and he and this might have been because

97
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: he of sexual jealousy of a Victoria, but maybe because

98
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 1: he was a control freak or a combination there. But

99
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,919
Speaker 1: he told Victoria that she was forbidden to marry again,

100
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 1: and he kept her a short leash, and in general

101
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,720
Speaker 1: of the family was kind of sullen, reclusive and just

102
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: not that well liked. Victoria's reputation was a little better

103
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 1: because she's saying in the church choir. She had a

104
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 1: good voice apparently, although how you know, she was also

105
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 1: kind of promiscuous and back in those days, you know

106
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 1: you think that. Well, case in Point Rach in nineteen

107
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 1: twenty two, she had a two year old despite the

108
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 1: fact that her husband died in nineteen fourteen. So let's

109
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 1: just point that mouth out. Yeah, you know, that seems important. Yeah,

110
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 1: and there was there was some question about who the

111
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 1: father of the kid was, if it was her her

112
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 1: dad Andreas, or if it was a neighbor or several

113
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 1: other men from around the town who claimed to have

114
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: had relations with her. Yeah. Well, anyway, back to our

115
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 1: little mystery here at the farm, things started getting kind

116
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: of strange. In ninety one there made suddenly quit her

117
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,040
Speaker 1: job and left. Uh and not Maria, her name was

118
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 1: not Maria. Yeah, and asked why she suddenly decided to

119
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 1: leave so leave, the maid said that she'd been hearing

120
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,680
Speaker 1: strange voices and noises in and around the house and

121
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: sounds of footsteps from the attic. She was convinced that

122
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: the house was haunted, and so she quit and yeah,

123
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 1: the group was tracted up to mental illness, but the

124
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: source of all this was the groupers themselves, so it

125
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 1: may be that they were asking about it, they made

126
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: this up. And maybe the real reason she left was

127
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 1: because Gruber was Andreas Gruber was abusive towards her or

128
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,920
Speaker 1: or coming onto her. Or perhaps she got wind of

129
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 1: the incests and that kind of turned her off and

130
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,560
Speaker 1: she decided to leave. It's hard to say if that's that.

131
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 1: Stuff about the maid think in the place was yeah,

132
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,559
Speaker 1: But it also seems like that's a weird thing to

133
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: say about why she left. Like, if you get to

134
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: make up whatever story you want, why wouldn't you just

135
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: say like she wanted to go to a warm and

136
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 1: climate because wait, wait, no, I need to say this,

137
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna I'm gonna put us into the mindset

138
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: of a very controlling man. In the nineteen twenties, women

139
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: are hysterical. It's a common thing to call it for

140
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: to say that woman is hysterical, meaning she's mentally unstable,

141
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, oh, yeah, no, you're right, that women

142
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: are Yeah, then you just say, I don't know she

143
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: was crazy, I don't know why she left. You don't say, like,

144
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 1: but I don't know our house is haunted. Yeah. People

145
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 1: also always volunteered too much, especially when they're lying. As

146
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: it turns off. And then degree Wers actually could have

147
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 1: been telling the truth. Maybe she really maybe she really

148
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: was just mentally ill. And then I really thought the

149
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: house was haunted, or maybe the house really was haunted.

150
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably not. It's about six months later

151
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: things kind of got stranger. This is after the maid left. Yeah,

152
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,079
Speaker 1: the six months after she left. This is in March.

153
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,960
Speaker 1: Andreas was outside after a snowstorm and he found some

154
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 1: footprints in the snow that originated in the forest and

155
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: came across their property and right up to the house.

156
00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: And he searched all around. He circled the house and

157
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 1: the barn and everything, and could not find tracks going

158
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 1: back to the woods. Yeah. I heard in one account.

159
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: I heard that the footprints originated at the forest, not

160
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,839
Speaker 1: coming from the forest, just appeared as though they'd been

161
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,959
Speaker 1: dropped the forest. I thought that was a fun little

162
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 1: addition to the story. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, some of

163
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 1: this stuff apparently, uh he did, he did talk about

164
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 1: some of his neighbors about some of this stuff. At first,

165
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: I was like a little bit skeptical of some of

166
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 1: some of this, but I think that apparently a lot

167
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 1: of this did happen, because there's been a lot of

168
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 1: a lot of absurd stuff also inserted into the story

169
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 1: as usual, and that's yeah, Yeah, I'm really desperately trying

170
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: not to be the wet blanket on this one today.

171
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 1: I've actually been kind of a wet blanket on the

172
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 1: entire most wanted Yeah, well we all have there's a

173
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 1: reason we haven't done them yet. Well, so at this point,

174
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: he did the next obvious thing, which is he searched

175
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 1: the house, and he also searched the barn in the

176
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 1: tool shed, and it didn't find any signs of an intruder.

177
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: And also no more footprints. No more footprints. Yeah, and uh,

178
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 1: a night, I don't know if it was that night

179
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 1: or something. Sometimes shortly thereafter, he woke up to strange

180
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,160
Speaker 1: noises coming from the attic, and he grabs the lantern

181
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: and heads up there and searches the attic found found

182
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 1: nobody hiding there and nothing going on, and so it

183
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 1: seemed like there was a trespasser. He advantaged what the

184
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: noises from the attic were probably squirrels. You know, I

185
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 1: don't know creat it could have been. It could have

186
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 1: been creators, rats, squirrels, whatever. And then a few mornings

187
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 1: after that, Andrea sound a newspaper from Munich on his porch.

188
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 1: Nobody in the family had bought this newspaper or read

189
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,080
Speaker 1: this newspaper. Yeah, and stomachcounts. He found the newspaper at

190
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,960
Speaker 1: the edge of the forest again to also but yeah,

191
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,000
Speaker 1: apparently the newspaper again was something I took with a

192
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: grain of salt, but apparently it was actually true. He

193
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 1: asked the local post man if anybody in the village

194
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 1: had ever received this newspaper, and the postman said no,

195
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: I did not recognize it. Interesting. Yeah, another creepy thing.

196
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,439
Speaker 1: Victoria noticed a strange man standing at the edge of

197
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 1: the forest watching the farm. Later, Andreas also noticed a

198
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: man in the woods watching the farm. Yeah, kind of creepy.

199
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 1: And then March thirtie, a set of keys to the

200
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 1: house disappeared, and they had two sets of keys apparently.

201
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 1: And then and he keep again repeated this to one

202
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 1: of his neighbors. I can't remember which one. This is

203
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 1: all discovered later by the police when they interviewed everybody

204
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,200
Speaker 1: in the area, uh, when he was searching or the

205
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 1: farm for the keys, because obviously they could have been

206
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: dropped to anywhere in the barnyard or the barn or wherever.

207
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: And so he found that the lock to the tool

208
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,000
Speaker 1: shed was all scratched up, as if somebody had tried

209
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,680
Speaker 1: to jimmy it or pick it. Yeah. I've been told

210
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: that Andreas told most of the stuff to his neighbor,

211
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 1: Lawrence Schlittenbauer, although I'm not sure if that was true.

212
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 1: It appeared to me that he and Schlittenbauer were not

213
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: actually on great terms. But you don't have to necessary

214
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 1: only be on great terms with somebody to talk to him. Yeah, yeah, sure,

215
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: especially when weird hanky stuff is happening. Yeah yeah, especially

216
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 1: maybe if he Maybe it's that Andreas was suspicious of

217
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 1: his neighbor. You know, every once in a while, if

218
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 1: you're suspicious of somebody, you'll do that like, hey, you know,

219
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,319
Speaker 1: by the way, some strange stuff, some weird stuff going on,

220
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,880
Speaker 1: It wouldn't happen to see the set of keys. Suspicious

221
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 1: people do sometimes when they say like hey, this it's

222
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 1: it's the weirdest thing. This thing happened. It's the equivalent of,

223
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, like texting your boyfriend. I just think it's

224
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,920
Speaker 1: funny that, right. You don't Okay, you don't text your

225
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,680
Speaker 1: boyfriend that thing? Nope, never have cool I mean either.

226
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,959
Speaker 1: That's why you're married. Now sorry Gay Back to their

227
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: story here. Yeah, that's so the neighbor Schlittenbauer just as

228
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 1: a side here. One of the reasons things weren't all

229
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: that great is that Schlittenbauer had been courting Andreas's daughter, Victoria,

230
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 1: and I don't know how far that went. Victoria actually

231
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 1: said that Schlittenbauer was the father of their two year

232
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,440
Speaker 1: old Joseph. Yeah, although everybody in town believe that Joseph

233
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 1: was actually fathered by Andreas. But yeah, and uh, and

234
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 1: then there's Schlittenbauer actually denied it. He accepted the first

235
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,199
Speaker 1: and denied it U and and so and of course

236
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 1: when he offered to marry her, Andreast forbide the whole

237
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,200
Speaker 1: thing and very emphatically. And so that's why things weren't

238
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,680
Speaker 1: so hot between them. But again, I don't know exactly

239
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: how how deep the hostility was. Okay, so that was

240
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 1: March thirties when the keys were lost on March thirty one,

241
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 1: a new maid, Maria Baumgartner, arrived to replace the one

242
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 1: that had left six months earlier. That house must have

243
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:04,079
Speaker 1: been filthy. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, I talked about bad timing. Yeah, seriously,

244
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: she arrived just a few hours early before the unpleasantness began. Yeah.

245
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,839
Speaker 1: The next day was a Saturday, and Gazalia, the seven

246
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 1: year old girl, Victoria's daughter, didn't show up for school,

247
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 1: so apparently they had six days of school back in

248
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 1: those days. And on Sunday the family didn't show up

249
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 1: for church. Then on Monday, April three, Gazilia again didn't

250
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 1: show up for school. And also the postman noticed that

251
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 1: nobody was collecting the mail, so, huh what happened? So Schlittenbauer,

252
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 1: Lawrence Schlittenbauer, the neighbor, Uh, he got windows some of

253
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: this stuff because it's a small town that people are

254
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 1: all talking. And so he said his two sons by

255
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: the farm to check on the family. Uh. That was

256
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: on Tuesday, April fourth that they came back and said

257
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 1: they had walked around the farm and hadn't seen the

258
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: had seen the family and hadn't seen anything and really

259
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 1: out of place. Um. And then later on Schlittenbauer rounded

260
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 1: up a few more people and went over to check

261
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 1: the place out himself, and they did a more thorough search.

262
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 1: And when it said opened the door or whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah,

263
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 1: maybe his sons didn't feel like it was really proper

264
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: for them to open the you know, go into the

265
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: barn or into the house. Here's the problem that I

266
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,880
Speaker 1: have with the sons went over and then later on

267
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 1: a whole troop of people from the village. You go over,

268
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 1: and then eventually the police are going to come. You've

269
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 1: got a gadget people marching around this place in the snow.

270
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's there's no way. Yeah, what's happening. Yeah,

271
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 1: it's like that's one of the things that makes it unsolved.

272
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: That definitely the whole thing, doesn't it. Uh Yeah. Anyway,

273
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 1: So in the barn they found four bodies. It was

274
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 1: Andreas and his wife Bazilia, daughter Victoria, granddaughter Casilia had

275
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,280
Speaker 1: all been bludging to death, bludging and chop attacked to

276
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: death with a pick axe. Although the murder weapon wasn't there.

277
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 1: All they all they knew it was that there were

278
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 1: these four bloody, battered bodies, some more bloody than others.

279
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: Holes in their heads. Yeah, yeah, and uh, and then

280
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: their faces in some cases their jaws broken and faces torn,

281
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: all torn up and stuff. And they had all been

282
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 1: covered with hay stacked stacked on top of each other.

283
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why. They then went into the farmhouse

284
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 1: and found young Joseph two years old, dead in his

285
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 1: his cot in his mother's bedroom, and the maid, the

286
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 1: new made Maria, was also found dead in her bed. Uh.

287
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 1: And they had been covered also, the maid with a

288
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: bed sheet and Joseph with one of his mother's skirts.

289
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 1: So they kind so whoever did cover the body bodies

290
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 1: um And appears that granddaughter Kazilia didn't immediately die from

291
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: her bludgeonings, and the autopsy reveal that she probably had

292
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: lived two to four hours after getting her head injuries

293
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 1: because she pulled wads of hair out of her head,

294
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 1: because she was probably laying there probably you know, who knows,

295
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe she was paralyzed, partially paralyzed from you know,

296
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 1: getting blows to the head and you're sitting there and

297
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, you're sort of laying there

298
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 1: helpless next to the dead bodies of your grandparents and

299
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 1: your mother. You know that'd be a stressful situation. Well,

300
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: I was just thinking she might have I mean, I'm

301
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: not even thinking that she maybe did it on purpose.

302
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 1: But you're trying to move, if you're in a kind

303
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: of a semi paralytic state like that, you're trying to

304
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: move and you're grasping, and you're like, oh, I feel something.

305
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 1: I can tell I've got a hold of something hard

306
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: holding on and then it gives way and then you're

307
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: there was something there. Let me go back for it

308
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,199
Speaker 1: not being able to see what you're grabbing in. In

309
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,679
Speaker 1: a lot of the accounts that I read, there was

310
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: some suspicion that she was not the last to have

311
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: been hit, that she didn't die, but that she perhaps

312
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:36,360
Speaker 1: witnessed the murders of Yeah, they thought she was dead

313
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,960
Speaker 1: and she wasn't, and so she witnessed it all. And

314
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: that's it's a fairly typical traumatic response, is the like

315
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 1: ye hair and yeah, they don't know actually what order

316
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 1: they were the four of the one were killed, and

317
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,480
Speaker 1: so it could have been maybe Cazilia went out there first,

318
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 1: or maybe Victoria and Casilia went out there first, and

319
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 1: then well they do they do suspect right, it was

320
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 1: one at a time, though, don't think. Well, yeah, but

321
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 1: there's no way to really know that. You know, it

322
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: could have been it could have been a couple first.

323
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: I think the only way to know that is the

324
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 1: lack of a sign of struggle. Yeah, it didn't appear

325
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 1: that anybody fought back, so you would assume that it

326
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,959
Speaker 1: was one at a time. Yeah. Probably, they couldn't tell.

327
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 1: But somebody goes out to the barn and then they

328
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 1: don't come back, and then somebody else, somebody else goes

329
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: out to check out them, they don't come back. You

330
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 1: think after the third or fourth time, people would sort

331
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 1: of like, you know, smarten up and take a gun

332
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 1: with them when they go out there. Well they stopped

333
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 1: going after the fourth one. Yeah, many of them. Yeah, yeah,

334
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 1: so that's pretty brutal. Yeah. Yeah, it was a very

335
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 1: vicious killing. So Schlittenbauer sent his sons to go get

336
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 1: the police. I don't know how far they had to

337
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: go to find a police. I don't know if they

338
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: had to go down to the village or to one

339
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: of the larger villages nearby or what. But they had

340
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: on their way. They though they everybody they ran into,

341
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 1: they told them what had happened. Over a hinter k

342
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: and so it's this is a weird comparison, but you

343
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,199
Speaker 1: know that I'm seen in love actually actually yeah, the

344
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 1: one right where he finally goes to propose to the

345
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 1: girl and he is not at the house and they

346
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 1: all walk through the village and every single by the

347
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: end of it, it's just like thousands of people standing there.

348
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm trying to lighten this situation here, you guys, come on. Yeah, yeah,

349
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: it was a lot of people granting, a lot of people. Yeah,

350
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: lots of people. Was Hugh Grant, wasn't it. Oh? Yeah,

351
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: So anyway, work work gets all around all over the village.

352
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 1: So everybody from the village, like you said, you know,

353
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: comes up to the farm and tramples everything inside. Eventually

354
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 1: the police arrived and they started doing the usual thing,

355
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 1: taking pictures and you know, and did they actually take pictures. Yeah,

356
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 1: they took pictures, but they didn't draw a layout of

357
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: the barnery or yeah. That wasn't the most Yeah, yeah,

358
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 1: they didn't really draw the lay out. It wasn't the

359
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: best investigation, I don't think in terms of gathering fingerprints.

360
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,680
Speaker 1: They did a real bang up job either. They did

361
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: search it pretty thoroughly. They even use canine units. Uh.

362
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 1: And they didn't find the murder weapon. Yeah. And then eventually,

363
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: at one point the Munich police were brought in because

364
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: obviously they were they were the big players and as

365
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 1: as far as I know, this might even still still

366
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: be an open case. But they question yeah, that's the question.

367
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: A lot of suspects and the most recent one was

368
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: in six so they're still on the case, though obviously

369
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 1: not pursuing it quite as hard. There was a police

370
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: force class, yeah that looked into it. They've done. Yeah,

371
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: it's one of those those cases they use every now

372
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: and again. Yeah, there was one that was not so

373
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: long ago the way they like two seven. Yeah, and

374
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: they finally said, no, it's it's unsolvable. Yeah. Oh yeah,

375
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: stop trying to solve it is unsolvable. Yeah. But the

376
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 1: report's interesting. Of course I don't read Germans, so i'd

377
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: use Google Translate, and it was lots of muffins involved. Yeah,

378
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: it came out a little garbling. Yeah. I read that

379
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: one too. It's difficult. Yeah. Uh So back to the

380
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: to the police at the time, they finally concluded that

381
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: some person or persons had lured them out one by

382
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: one into the barn. Or again, maybe they just waited

383
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: out there for people to show up. It's it's a

384
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 1: it's a farm. People are gonna go out to the barn. Yeah,

385
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: and so, yeah, they were at the lure, or they

386
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: just waited until they showed up and then murdered them

387
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: with the pick axe, after at which case of murderer

388
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: or murderers went to the farmhouse to finish off the

389
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 1: baby in the maid. This it was believed that Victoria

390
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: and Gazilia had been the first to arrive, most likely um,

391
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 1: because they had not been dressed for bed when they

392
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: went up to investigate, and apparently the grandparents were uh,

393
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: so you know, most likely they were just you know,

394
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: and then the grandparents went out later on to check

395
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: on one thing that was going on back Yeah. Uh.

396
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: Date of death was determined to be Friday, March thirty one,

397
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: but when police questioned the neighbors the neighbors, some of

398
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 1: the neighbors said that they had seen smoke coming out

399
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: of the chimney of the house over the entire weekend,

400
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: which was suggest as somebody had been home and somebody

401
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: was home with six dead bodies. But yeah, when they

402
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: looked at the house, there was evidence that somebody had

403
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: recently eaten meals. One of the beds appeared to have

404
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: been slept in, but I'm not sure, maybe maybe not.

405
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 1: In the smoke house they found a ham that had

406
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: been freshly cut. In addition, all the cattle and livestock

407
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: had been fed and were in good condition. The cows

408
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: had been milked, and in fact, none of the animals

409
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: on the farm had been harmed in any way, not

410
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: even the dog. The dog was tied up in the

411
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: barn and barking, and it was abelously not in the

412
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: best of spirits, but was otherwise in good shape. So

413
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: the guy wasn't an animal killer anyway. We kind of

414
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: hand them that other creepy evidence. So this is really

415
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: creepy that they found evidence that somebody had been staying

416
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: in the hay loft in the barn, because they found

417
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: it was at least a day or two, probably before

418
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: the murders, because they found too deep depressions in the

419
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: hay where it appeared that something that two people have

420
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: been sleeping, and a roof tile and the roof of

421
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: the barn had been moved aside so that they could

422
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: peer out, apparently, and and surveil the farmhouse and the

423
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: barn yard, so it's real creepy. There might have been

424
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: somebody's stay in the halof for two or three, who

425
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: knows how long before the murders, watching those people. And

426
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: another curious side, I don't I don't know if this

427
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: was related at all to it. Victoria had emptied her

428
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: bank account a few weeks previously, and when he was

429
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: searching the house, the police had a large amount of cash.

430
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: And what's interesting is that the murderer had was, you know,

431
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: in the house for days, and if he was there

432
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: to rob them, then he would have been searching the

433
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: house and he would have found that cash. The cash

434
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: was still there, so obviously the murder, the motive for

435
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: the murder was not robbery. This is when the police

436
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: started to suspect that the murders were had been a

437
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: crime of passion, considering the violence of the whole thing,

438
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: considering they were able to rule out robbery. Uh suspicion

439
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: fell of course on the neighbor, Lawrence Schlittenburger. He's Lawrence Schlittenbauer.

440
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: I keep on to say Schlittenberger, Schlittenbauer, because as I

441
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: said before, he had been a suitor of Victoria's and

442
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: then and Andreas had forbidden the marriage, and the cour

443
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: Laurent had heard all the rumors that Andrea's was really

444
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: the father of two year old Joseph, and that probably

445
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: if he was, if he had serious feelings for Victoria, obviously,

446
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: that would have probably kind of graded on him a

447
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: little bit. Well, I don't know that he probably had

448
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: serious feelings for her, but regardless, I think it probably

449
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: would have been a weird thing, real weird you know,

450
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: at Christmas time, you know, here's dad and he's sorry.

451
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so uh, as I said, Victoria claimed that

452
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: Joseph was Schlittenbauer's son, but but it's not really a given.

453
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: So the motive might have been jealousy. It could also

454
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: been to escape child support payments, because apparently Victoria had

455
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: been on the verge of suing Schlittenbauer for child support

456
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: right before the murders. So you know, that could have

457
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: been a trigger for the murder. I mean, having to

458
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: support a kid that's not even yours or your that

459
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: you don't believe he's yours. Yeah, yeah, that would be

460
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: kind of calling. Yeah. Um. Some of the other evidence

461
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: of his involvement was he was one of the members

462
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: of the original search party. It was reported when he

463
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: was in the barn, the dog, which was also tied

464
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: up in the barn, barked and snarled at him the

465
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: whole time he was there. So that's interesting. Yeah, but

466
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: there's some people the dogs just don't like, especially if

467
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: your owner didn't like you when he was alive. That's true,

468
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: that's true. Also. I also, actually, I really think that

469
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: Schlittenbauer didn't think it too very carefully if you left

470
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: the dog alive, because obviously you come back, the dog's

471
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: going to have that reaction to you if you if

472
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: you killed everybody right in front of the dog, right, Yeah,

473
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: so it was it was not smart to leave the

474
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: dog alive. But then anyway, it's not just positive one

475
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: way or the other. But another one of the guys

476
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: who was there with the search party said that he

477
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: seemed kind of cold blooded about the whole thing. I mean,

478
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: they're looking at these these these horribly horribly murdered bodies,

479
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: bloody bodies, and he just unstacked the body and didn't

480
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: show any sign of revulsion or disgust or anything like that.

481
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: You just calmly unstacked him, and somebody said, why are

482
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: you moving to corpses before the police even are here,

483
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 1: And he said he needed to find his boy. So

484
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: apparently he thought his son Joseph was somewhere in that

485
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: stack of bodies. Do we know if he served from

486
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: World War One? Schlitton Barer. Yeah, it seems like he

487
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: would have would have been the right age. It would

488
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: have been the right age, would have been the right age.

489
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, okay, well it could be that. Yeah,

490
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: he was pretty pretty near. I mean, un plus, anybody

491
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: that's worked on a farm for any extended amount of time,

492
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: which this guy has, you're used to dealing with death,

493
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: dead animal, roll it over, cut it up to do whatever.

494
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: That's that's why his reaction doesn't strike mus a the

495
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: serving in the war and be dealing with dead things. Yeah. Yeah,

496
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: so yeah, he didn't give a crap for the old

497
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: man on the farm anyway. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. People

498
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: also said he seemed to be really familiar with the

499
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: farm and he lived near it. Yeah, but they yeah,

500
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: they said he just like navigated around like, you know,

501
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: so super easy. But I don't I don't know that

502
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: really means much of anything. He did get Schlittenbauer did

503
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: get questioned by the police, but in the end they

504
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: just didn't have any evidence to really like for the crime.

505
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: M In fact, nobody has been arrested for the crime

506
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: until to this day a year later. Actually, the Gabriel

507
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: is that was Carl Gabriel, Victoria's husband. Their family lived nearby.

508
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: Of course, they wound up buying at the inter Kaifak

509
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: farm for the really lilttle market price. Who wants to it. Yeah, yeah,

510
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: So in n they bought it, and they decided to

511
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: demolish the whole thing. And when they when they demolished

512
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: the barn, that's when they found the pick axe. It

513
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: was actually hidden under a false bottom in a hayrack,

514
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: So they had a hidden they had a secret compartment

515
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: in the barn that Schlittenbauer I don't think should have

516
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: been should have known about well no, I mean, nobody

517
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: should have no right. I mean that unless well, family members,

518
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, family members would have been the only yeah,

519
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: anybody who lived there. Yeah yeah, yeah, So that's that's

520
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: another market in Schlittenbauer's favor. I think. Oh, they also

521
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: found a penknife in that same compartment. Yeah yeah, oh yeah,

522
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: one final grizzly note before we head onto our list

523
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: of suspects. Yeah yeah, yeah. They decided to cut the

524
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: heads off the bodies and sent the heads to Munich

525
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: for further analysis. I think also for commeding with a

526
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: psychic or something like that. And uh, the headless bodies

527
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: were buried in a buried in the grave and Vidholfen,

528
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: which is I think somewhere to the west of the

529
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: farm and like southwest I think. H the heads, of

530
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: course have gone missing. So there's another unsolved mystery. Yeah,

531
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: that whole World War two things. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

532
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: Munich was at the receiving end of a lot of

533
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: bombing and stuff in World War Two, so I guess

534
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 1: that's not too surprising. Now let's move on to our

535
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: list of suspects. You guys have any favorites. I have

536
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: some favorites speak as I find him hilarious. Yeah, man, favorites. Yeah,

537
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: I don't hear. They're really Schlittenbauer, of course is everybody's

538
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: favorite and motivesword jealousy. It's just hard to get out

539
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: of pink show support. Um. But what I don't get

540
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: about that is that again he wouldn't have known about

541
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: that secret compartment in the barn. I don't think anyway. Well,

542
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: I was about to say he might have. He could.

543
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: I guess he could, especially if he was populating with Victoria.

544
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: I just say, if he was canoodling, you know, that

545
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: would explain why there's depressions in the hayloft and why

546
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: that one tile is easy to move. Is she might

547
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, have a you know, tell a guy, hey,

548
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: come over and go in the hayloft and there's just

549
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: one tile that you can look and watch for me

550
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: to come out. But if you see my father coming,

551
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: hide under the hay kind of thing. Yeah, so yeah,

552
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: I could have. Yeah that there could be a non

553
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: sinister explanation for the thing in the hayloft, definitely. But

554
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: the thing I got to get about Schlittenbauer had been

555
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: the killer and he stayed in the house for days.

556
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: Wouldn't he have been knows not in his own house?

557
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: But I think so, I think so. And And also

558
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: why would he want to stay there? There's that's a

559
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: bunch of corpses around, Yeah, although they'd been covered up,

560
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: they had been covered up. Yeah, but that but that

561
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: it's you're you're right in the middle of a very

562
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: incriminating scene, you know, and it happens to come by, Yeah, exactly.

563
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: And you've got a perfectly good home just right down

564
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: the road to go to go to. So that's another

565
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: reason I don't think it was Schlittenbauer. Yeah, but the

566
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: rest of our suspects are kind of a thin list.

567
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: We've got Carl Gabriel, Victoria's staying her husband. Yeah, yeah,

568
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: this is a big one. Of course, he was dead

569
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: there in World War One, but there are claims that

570
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: he didn't actually die in the war. And there was

571
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: actually a witness who said that he had seen Carl

572
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: in a train in nineteen eight and Carl said that

573
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: he had just been home and had seen Victoria apparently

574
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: didn't talk to everybody's apparently saw her from a distance,

575
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: saw that she was pregnant, and I decided, well, I

576
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: think I'm going to just leave town and go take

577
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: on a new identity, because obviously you see your wife

578
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: and you've been you've been gone for like four plus years,

579
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: and well, yeah, it's not something most of us really

580
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: want to deal with. Math doesn't that kind of does it? Could?

581
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: It could work, I mean Joseph was born July ninth,

582
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, and so yeah, and so so I could

583
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: have and also you could have been mistaken about the time.

584
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: Maybe he saw him in early nineteen nineteen on a

585
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: train and not nineteen eighteen, but with him. Yeah. The

586
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: problem with it being Carl, though, is that the guys

587
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: in his unit him saw him step on the land

588
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: I think it was a land vine. I have heard

589
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: various things about that. Yeah, but I think it was

590
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: understanding and they like he was face up and his

591
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: body was destroyed, but his face was pretty much intact.

592
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: His skull was cracked, see his brain, but it was

593
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: definitely him. Yeah, but you know, Carl did have a

594
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: decent motive. If Carl had somehow survived, I don't not

595
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: a bad motive, yeah, yeah, yeah, a pretty good motive.

596
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but why come back all those years

597
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: after you've already figured out that your wife was fooling around? Yeah, exactly.

598
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know why. Maybe he just dwelled on

599
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: it for a long time and finally just sort of

600
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: went around the bend. Uh. So, Carl, we got to

601
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: kick that with a grain of salt. Also, next suspect

602
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: was Andrea s. Gruber's brother or excuse me, brothers. He

603
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: had two brothers, and apparently his sister confessed on her

604
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: deathbed that her brothers had done it. Why she was

605
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: a little hazy on that she was on her deathbed

606
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: and all. Yeah, not a lot of time we give details. Yeah,

607
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, maybe I don't again, are

608
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: gonna be that this is gonna be one hell of

609
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: a family feud. Yeah, I know, I mean talk about

610
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: the McCoy's in the fields, Yeah, the McCoys in the

611
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: hat fields kind of situation. Yeah, I don't. Again, it's

612
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: it's the evidence is so skimpy that I really can't say.

613
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: I bet, I really did. I really do have doubts

614
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: about Schlittenbauer though, that some random random vis Yeah, a

615
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: random nuts job. And it would have to be a

616
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: nut job because obviously he wasn't motivated by money. I mean,

617
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: he was perfectly happy to hang around and eat their

618
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: food for a while, you know, and sleeping a soft bed,

619
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: but you know, take their money. But it could have

620
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: been some sort of serial killer type. It's not like

621
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: they haven't been out there for a long time. Not

622
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: a new thing. Yeah. So yeah, although you still think

623
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: if he was an itinerant serial killer that he would

624
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: have taken the money. Yeah, I would Yeah, why not? Yeah,

625
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: but you're creepy. Yeah, so maybe a serial killer. I

626
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: don't know anyway, that's about you guys have any more theories.

627
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, no, I really don't either. Yeah, this

628
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: thing is probably one of the biggest murder mysteries in

629
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: German history, if not the biggest. I mean it's it's

630
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: a it's a serious thing. There was literally nothing there

631
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: is the actual evidence, and everything is totally mismanaged and

632
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: badly investigated by the initial Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're constables,

633
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: are they? Yeah? I don't I don't even know if

634
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: they're the village the local village even had a constable.

635
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if they had to go

636
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: to some one of the larger towns nearby to find

637
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: a cop. I'm not sure at that day and age.

638
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: I mean, as soon as you get the entire town

639
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: trooping through, people are rubber neckers, you're gonna show up

640
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: to look, you're the scene is as we saw last

641
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: week with the solder kids. Yes, yeah, yeah, So it's

642
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: obviously never going to get solved. I mean and you

643
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: know this is a tough case if Team Sideways can't

644
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: solve it. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah, I guess we

645
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: did overlook one suspect. Yeah, who's that chop chop? Oh?

646
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: That's right, good point. How you missed that super cobra?

647
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: Does you know these snowy situations? Yeah? Okay, I'll buy

648
00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: that old it alright? Cool. Hey, I'm gonna give you

649
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: a little a little information here, so don't shut us

650
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: off quite yet. This is very very important information. First

651
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,479
Speaker 1: of all, our website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where

652
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: you can download episodes, you can look at links that

653
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: we will be posting out there talking about the whole

654
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: hinter kaifect thing, and of course you can leave comments. Um. Also,

655
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: we're on iTunes so you can download our episodes. They're

656
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: also please subscribe and leave a review, preferably a really

657
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: good one. Uh. Stream us from anywhere. We're also on

658
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: Facebook where we have a page and also a group,

659
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: and I'll sell Twitter where we are thinking sideways that's

660
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: thinking not thinking. Uh and uh see what else, sir?

661
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: You probably want to send us an email. Our email

662
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And last

663
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: of all, you can find us on Patreon Patreon slash

664
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, where if you want to support the show,

665
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: you can pledge a certain amount per episode. Of course,

666
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: totally optional, but if you feel like doing that then hey,

667
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: patreons where to do it? Yeah? Yeah, anything else next week? Yea, yeah,

668
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: the biggest one. Yeah. If you win, then I don't

669
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: get to hear the episode. Yeah, exactly for free until

670
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: next week. Guys. Yeah, what's actually guys? Bye bye