Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's a word purpose driven platform. Like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It
Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura currently and I'm Alexa Kristen.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Atlantia. Episode twelve, The Dirty Dozen, The
Speaker 1: duty doesn't And we had someone who's squeaky clean who's
Speaker 1: joining us, Keith Grossman, the c r O of Bloomberg Media.
Speaker 1: So excited to have Keith. He is like literally everywhere
Speaker 1: we've known him for actually before he was at Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: when he was at Wired. And we think that Bloomberg
Speaker 1: is really interesting because they're well positioned not just as
Speaker 1: a media company, right, but they have a portfolio of
Speaker 1: products and something that we're going to talk about I
Speaker 1: think pre Keith is they really own business audience in
Speaker 1: a different way and they have opportunity need to break
Speaker 1: out because they don't have the legacy relationships um to
Speaker 1: cable companies to carry your fees to those types of
Speaker 1: things that a lot of business news and media has today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we should dive
Speaker 1: into a little bit that appears to be on everybody's
Speaker 1: mind these days is this idea of renting versus owning
Speaker 1: your audience. And I think the Facebook Google duopoly which
Speaker 1: basically owns the world, and this idea that publishers are feeling,
Speaker 1: um squeeze, squeeze. Squeeze is a nice word, um basically
Speaker 1: saying like, look, we have no choice seemingly but to
Speaker 1: put our content on these platforms for discovery because this
Speaker 1: is where audiences are in the feed or in the
Speaker 1: nav bar, whatever the case may be. Um, within those Facebook,
Speaker 1: Google platforms and ecosystems. And so what does this leave
Speaker 1: us with and doesn't leave us with audience right that
Speaker 1: we actually own? And we Yeah, you're gonna say, like
Speaker 1: we talked to Dave Plots on I don't remember what
Speaker 1: episode it was, but about Atlas Obscura, and he had
Speaker 1: a really smart, really clear comment about what happens for
Speaker 1: publishers when they're just promoting on Facebook. Right, Like you
Speaker 1: syndicate your content, you put it out there because you
Speaker 1: can target right down to seemingly the person or very
Speaker 1: very close to and they see your article, they see
Speaker 1: your video, but you don't create a relationship with them.
Speaker 1: They've kind of thanked Facebook for putting something relevant in
Speaker 1: their feed, and they move on. And then it's like,
Speaker 1: was that Atlas Obscuria or was that Expedia or was
Speaker 1: that Airbnb? I don't know, but didn't matter no, because
Speaker 1: I read the content and I moved on. And I
Speaker 1: think his point was you own it, you don't own audience.
Speaker 1: And then what do you do? How do you actually
Speaker 1: create a relationship that can go further and actually can
Speaker 1: be monetized in meaningful ways to the publisher or a
Speaker 1: brand from a financial perspective and from building out product perspective,
Speaker 1: But also you're doing it based on what the audience
Speaker 1: want and likes, and you're super serving them, right, which
Speaker 1: brings an interesting intersection in the industry and the fact
Speaker 1: that you know you would then go to Bloomberg because
Speaker 1: you know that people are engaging with that brand. Where
Speaker 1: I think what David Plattz was getting to was, if
Speaker 1: I'm a brand, why do I need to go to
Speaker 1: Atlas Obscura when I can just cut through and build
Speaker 1: similar content and use Facebook's platform and audience to reach
Speaker 1: that same demographics. Right, And so that puts media companies
Speaker 1: on their back foot to say, what else do we
Speaker 1: have in this house that we can offer to brands
Speaker 1: to engage them from a unique point of view? This
Speaker 1: is classic marketing, right. You don't build a product because
Speaker 1: you need to build a product right to monetize. You
Speaker 1: build a product to serve a market need, right, and
Speaker 1: what's the market need? And then you go in And
Speaker 1: I think one of the most astonishing things in this
Speaker 1: industry is for men, any of the larger media companies,
Speaker 1: I don't even think they've begun to tap into or
Speaker 1: think about exactly, like, what do I have within the
Speaker 1: confines of this company that nobody else can produce? So
Speaker 1: if you come to me Hulu, or you come to
Speaker 1: me ESPN, or you come to me, insert you know
Speaker 1: expert in this industry to the table and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can give you eyeballs an audience, but actually I
Speaker 1: want to offer you intelligence. I want to educate you
Speaker 1: on what people are doing in their homes sun up
Speaker 1: to sundown around streaming. I'd rather pay you for that.
Speaker 1: Hulu then some Nielsen data set that's six months old.
Speaker 1: That um is this a thousand person sample and we
Speaker 1: don't know who those thousand people are. So diversify your portfolios.
Speaker 1: People come to us with something other to sell than
Speaker 1: a three by two fifty. And after this break, we're
Speaker 1: gonna wake up on a magic Tuesday with Keith Always
Speaker 1: on Grossman three two fifties, we'll be back with Keith
Speaker 1: Grossman from Bloomberg. So we're back with Keith Grossman, the
Speaker 1: c r O of Bloomberg. Welcome, Keith, thank you, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me a buddy of ours long time. And
Speaker 1: if anyone doesn't know Keith, then something's wrong with you. You
Speaker 1: You need to be on Instagram. You need to be
Speaker 1: in If you're not, Yeah, exactly, but you should follow
Speaker 1: Keith exactly. What's your Insta handle? I try to make
Speaker 1: it very simple, Keith Grossman. I love it so Keith,
Speaker 1: you were actually before we get into all of the
Speaker 1: fun things happening at Bloomberg Media, tell everybody your favorite
Speaker 1: marketoonistist Fishburne. If you don't follow him on Instagram, he's amazing.
Speaker 1: But he's a cartoonist who does cartoons that depict the
Speaker 1: ridiculousness of our industry, which is also the impetus of
Speaker 1: the show. I know. This is why I bring it up,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's great. But my favorite all
Speaker 1: time cartoon is because I have a three year old daughter, Ellie,
Speaker 1: and it's a father and he is sitting next to
Speaker 1: his daughter at bedtime. She's in her bed and the
Speaker 1: caption is she's holding a book and it says, Daddy,
Speaker 1: we read me this piece of branded content. It's right,
Speaker 1: And that's your litmus test. Yet to find an editor
Speaker 1: that finds it funny. But but no, But in all seriousness,
Speaker 1: I think that it represents a really important aspect of
Speaker 1: our industry, which is there is a point where when
Speaker 1: you digitize content and you put it online, nobody distinguishes
Speaker 1: between whether or not it is sponsored or if it's
Speaker 1: editorially driven. They only see it as sponsored if it
Speaker 1: is bad interesting. And I think that the two of you,
Speaker 1: from just knowing you both for years, would agree we do.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about what you've got
Speaker 1: going on at Bloomberg Media, and you've just come off
Speaker 1: the upfront and a lot of news that came out
Speaker 1: of that Twitter Twitter dreaming news. Sure, So I don't
Speaker 1: know if you how of me you are with what
Speaker 1: Twitter is doing in terms of where they're looking at
Speaker 1: their business. But as they realized that one of the
Speaker 1: areas that they can grow on is in terms of
Speaker 1: moving away from text based messaging and moving more towards
Speaker 1: video streaming, we had the very fortunate ability to take
Speaker 1: the existing partnership that we've had with Twitter and you know,
Speaker 1: parlayed into ultimately what will be seven live breaking news
Speaker 1: social network that will go on there in November fifteenth.
Speaker 1: Is what we're they we're aiming for, and it's, uh,
Speaker 1: we're going to be the exclusive news network of Twitter
Speaker 1: through and uh, you know, the response in the market
Speaker 1: place has been amazing. Was the coverage that you did
Speaker 1: of the twenty sixteen election a proxy for that. During
Speaker 1: the election cycle, one of the things that we realized
Speaker 1: was we have huge advantage by not having the authentication
Speaker 1: requirements that other cable providers have, so we could stream
Speaker 1: over the top two you know, Apple TV and Samsung
Speaker 1: Smart hubs and the Roku devices. But then Twitter approached
Speaker 1: us and we were able to also partner with them
Speaker 1: and stream the presidential debates. The first one comes around,
Speaker 1: we have two point one million people watching us on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Second one comes around, we have two point four million.
Speaker 1: The third one comes around, we have three point two
Speaker 1: million people who are watching this. So really onto something
Speaker 1: this is very interesting. Following that, we went to Twitter
Speaker 1: and we struck an agreement where we took three non
Speaker 1: endemic shows that we broadcast every day on Bloomberg's Linear TV,
Speaker 1: which is Bloomberg day Break America, our morning show Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Would You Miss which is from with Joey Senthal, who
Speaker 1: joined us about a year and a half ago, two
Speaker 1: years ago from a business insider, and Bloomberg Technology, and
Speaker 1: every day since October, we've been broadcasting these three shows.
Speaker 1: You could just watch them live on Twitter, the same
Speaker 1: type of experience, and we have about a million people
Speaker 1: a day who tune in and watch this. How does
Speaker 1: that rival your linear audience? It's significantly. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just it's a huge an I know, but I want
Speaker 1: you but but picture this right. So, Bloomberg's Linear TV
Speaker 1: has always been very niche, very specific, very focused on
Speaker 1: the financial core industry, which is why we chose three
Speaker 1: shows that were non core. Right. Based on the success
Speaker 1: of those three shows that we had that's what led
Speaker 1: to the Twitter deal. But if you want to stat
Speaker 1: and this is where I was saying, how you know,
Speaker 1: grandular do you want to get? But this is something
Speaker 1: that I think you would really love. Um, if you
Speaker 1: want a stat that will will blow your mind. When
Speaker 1: the Komby testimony took place, we were the only camera
Speaker 1: in the courtroom that could live stream it over Twitter, right,
Speaker 1: and that was a part of your Twitter exclusivity. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we just Twitter came to us and they said,
Speaker 1: do you want to live stream this as well? And
Speaker 1: at the last minute we just said yes. We thought
Speaker 1: it made sense. It was also a good proof concept.
Speaker 1: We weren't so much about this and you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of what we're learning with the viewing experience over
Speaker 1: Twitter is very similar to when like I launched and
Speaker 1: worked on the launch with my team on the tablet
Speaker 1: edition a wired back in two thousands and where you
Speaker 1: think you know everything until consumer behavior starts speaking place
Speaker 1: and you start realizing a lot. But we do the
Speaker 1: Komy live stream and two point seven million people watched
Speaker 1: the Komy live stream over Twitter feed through the Boomberg
Speaker 1: feed right. Um, to give you a comparison, nineteen point
Speaker 1: five million people in total watched the Komby testimony on
Speaker 1: cable television, so we had the point one three Nielsen
Speaker 1: rating on Twitter. But to give you an even bigger example,
Speaker 1: during the Komy testimony, not only did two point seven
Speaker 1: million people watch it, three point six million tweets took
Speaker 1: place during that ceremony that during the testimony ceremony was
Speaker 1: not a ceremony. Side of the aisle you're on that,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about it. But but of the two
Speaker 1: point seven million, eight percent were under the age of
Speaker 1: thirty five. If you want to talk about cord cutting
Speaker 1: being a real stat you know, chord shaving being a
Speaker 1: real issue. This is the reality of streaming and video content.
Speaker 1: You know, the word TV is not going to go away,
Speaker 1: but it will evolve. You know, my daughter, your your
Speaker 1: daughter will look at the world and they'll say I
Speaker 1: want to watch TV. But they won't mean I want
Speaker 1: to watch winning or TV. They don't have that relationship
Speaker 1: with now their cable provider. They have the relationship with
Speaker 1: a screen and the viewing experience. That's right. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've said a couple of things. I was talking to
Speaker 1: someone about this yesterday. Actually I was like why can
Speaker 1: Bloomberg do this? Why can They're actually ripe right for
Speaker 1: this type of relationship with Twitter because you don't have
Speaker 1: the same relationships with cable. You don't have the fees
Speaker 1: and the contracts and the right you're not held to
Speaker 1: that old model, which is genius. It is totally open
Speaker 1: if lets you guys play in areas that no one
Speaker 1: probably can play in as quickly. So I mean we
Speaker 1: our goal is is to ultimately be as aggressive as possible,
Speaker 1: to be as innovative as possible, but not just to
Speaker 1: do innovation for innovations sake. I mean, you could just
Speaker 1: constantly say I'm doing new never done before. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, for Bloomberg, the goal is
Speaker 1: is not to just do that and be the first.
Speaker 1: The goal has to be that there has to be
Speaker 1: utility to the user. Right, So if you look at
Speaker 1: it like that wasn't the same thing with when I
Speaker 1: was at Wired, And that's not a knock on Wired.
Speaker 1: But the expectation of the consumer audiences is if it's new,
Speaker 1: Wired has to be there, right. If the expectation of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg is if it's new and you're there, it better
Speaker 1: add value to my life. And so the case of Twitter,
Speaker 1: it's very it makes a lot of sense. In the
Speaker 1: case of you know, Amazon Alexa, US giving you know,
Speaker 1: the updated news feed you know is very important. US
Speaker 1: being on the Echo show the day at launch is
Speaker 1: very important. US being on you know, even the eye
Speaker 1: watch like for certain things, and on Samsung smart Watch
Speaker 1: upon launch very important. US playing with VR like we
Speaker 1: do it right. But the reality is is, you know,
Speaker 1: it's such a small niche area in the grand scheme
Speaker 1: of the consumers who adopt it and actually play with it,
Speaker 1: that there's no huge payoff to be in that area now,
Speaker 1: not yet, not yet, but we have talked about that.
Speaker 1: But I would say it's about the year that VR
Speaker 1: actually scales, and at that point I would point out
Speaker 1: that maybe a R is more interesting than VR. So
Speaker 1: let's talk to us about studio, Like, talk to us
Speaker 1: about what do you do? What is Bloomberg? You know,
Speaker 1: do you have an ad innovation lab? Are you doing
Speaker 1: anything like not that you need it, right, but like,
Speaker 1: do you have something where you're actually looking at how
Speaker 1: are we going to change the experience, you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's incrementally or not for these new types of screening devices.
Speaker 1: And experiences and as it add content because we've talked
Speaker 1: quite a bit back and forth the election and I
Speaker 1: in meetings with you you know about is content really
Speaker 1: the first thing that Bloomberg should be monetizing, where like
Speaker 1: we've always been interested in the intelligence angle and say
Speaker 1: we've like shook you right, like you can't get this
Speaker 1: ship anywhere? Like this is amazing? Is this like an
Speaker 1: like R rated podcast? Wells you concurse right now? Um?
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, I would say, um, a
Speaker 1: few things, So can I step back for one second
Speaker 1: on it? Which is um? I think that it's very
Speaker 1: easy for people to speak in definitives, right, so people
Speaker 1: will say things like people hate advertising, and I think
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. You just sent me the book End of
Speaker 1: Advertising by Andrew Essex, but the whole premise of the
Speaker 1: End of Advertising by Andrew Essex, which I thought was
Speaker 1: a very fun We're going to have him on the show, hopefully,
Speaker 1: Andrew you're coming on the show. He knows I bought
Speaker 1: three hundred copies of the book. I think I'm his
Speaker 1: number one purchaser probably. I've been seeing Keith Grossman pop
Speaker 1: ups on other people's channels now have notes from kind
Speaker 1: of treating Everybody's hilarious on LinkedIn, and then I was like,
Speaker 1: where's my book? I got kind of like jealous. I
Speaker 1: got a note from your person that I was sending
Speaker 1: it to the wrong address. I didn't, Yeah, anyway, I did.
Speaker 1: I got jealous when I saw this guy's note, and
Speaker 1: I was like, where's my note? The next day I
Speaker 1: got my time make sure. I just want to know
Speaker 1: who's writing those notes? Is that you know? No way
Speaker 1: my hand, um no, but here you know, like I
Speaker 1: think people want to say that that that advertising dad,
Speaker 1: or this is awful, it's bad advertising. Nobody wants bad advertising.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants it to be intrusive or offensive. And like
Speaker 1: the whole point of his book is when all you're
Speaker 1: doing is creating to create, and you're not actually thinking
Speaker 1: about what the experience is, then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're missing the bigger point. And when you're trying to
Speaker 1: force feed like or force fit something into the wrong
Speaker 1: canvas or the wrong experience or the wrong expectation, it's
Speaker 1: a big miss. But if you look at one of
Speaker 1: the most amazing elements of advertising, and the two examples
Speaker 1: that he gives in the book and now you might
Speaker 1: not even need addressings on this shop. You're his wrap.
Speaker 1: I am pretty much you know his pr on this.
Speaker 1: But if you if you look at the premise and
Speaker 1: he gives two really good examples which were, um, you
Speaker 1: know City Bike, which did a tremendous amount for you know,
Speaker 1: the City brand in terms of um lifting it up
Speaker 1: from where it was from two thousand and none today Right, Um,
Speaker 1: it adds a tremendous amount of utility. Uh, there's no
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind that that it is paid off
Speaker 1: on it's r O Y regardless of what the metric
Speaker 1: is worth, and that it's worth every penny of what
Speaker 1: that investment was. And then take something on the flip
Speaker 1: side of it, like the Lego movie, which I think
Speaker 1: costs something like forty million dollars and it paid off
Speaker 1: four hundred million dollars in box office sales. I'm curious
Speaker 1: to know our brands coming to still looking for what
Speaker 1: I'll call the stereotypical business decision maker and asking for
Speaker 1: very monotonous things that can deliver B two B marketing strategy.
Speaker 1: Or are you finding that new brands or presumably you know,
Speaker 1: repeat brands are coming in now starting to diversify that
Speaker 1: ask and expecting you to help them kind of paint
Speaker 1: this picture of what the next gen business consumer looks like.
Speaker 1: It's not neither or, but here's like a really interesting
Speaker 1: stat And you know, obviously as a private company, we
Speaker 1: don't go into, you know, a lot of our financials,
Speaker 1: but I'll give you just sort of a glimpse um
Speaker 1: when you look at the partnerships of ours that partner
Speaker 1: with us on one or two platforms, we have a
Speaker 1: normalized attrition rate, let's say sevent. When you find a
Speaker 1: partner who looks at how can we engage across your
Speaker 1: platform and talk to your consumers across three platforms, that
Speaker 1: attrition rate actually goes down from you know, and four
Speaker 1: platforms it goes down even more. Five platforms it becomes
Speaker 1: non existent. We almost find that we are, you know,
Speaker 1: having conversations with these partners that are completely um more
Speaker 1: about the idea and how to bring the idea to
Speaker 1: life than just as it's going to run and where
Speaker 1: it's going to go. So we are most successful partnerships
Speaker 1: are at that higher end of the spectrum where people
Speaker 1: say idea first, and how can you bring it to life?
Speaker 1: Or what's the strategy or at the programmatic end of
Speaker 1: the spectrum, which is growing, you know, triple digit percentages
Speaker 1: off of glow comps, but it will be a significant
Speaker 1: eight figure revenue stream this year um up from essentially
Speaker 1: zero back in the end of And so the area
Speaker 1: that we're really losing out on or we're seeing disappear
Speaker 1: are these here's an RFP, just respond and you know,
Speaker 1: give us placement where we could just run some ads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's well, I think that's become pretty
Speaker 1: in vogue, not to URFP now right, Like generally it's
Speaker 1: even if it's on rf it's sort of even the
Speaker 1: like I have, like a few hundred thousand dollars, can
Speaker 1: you just run this on XEX, Like it's just not
Speaker 1: happening as much. Yeah, And I just think that it's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting time where, you know, what you just
Speaker 1: talked about our polar opposite sides of the spectrum, and
Speaker 1: so this idea of like what exists in the middle
Speaker 1: represents a really interesting paradigm shift for this industry. It's
Speaker 1: like you've got one end of the continuum that is
Speaker 1: pushing innovation and ideation and really strong strategic it seems
Speaker 1: like for you going deep vertically and really getting the
Speaker 1: best experience. Were spreading yourself than horizontally is the way
Speaker 1: the best use your platform. And then you've got the
Speaker 1: other guys that are after this really lucrative audience of
Speaker 1: business decision makers, investors, and what happened. I mean, the
Speaker 1: one thing to remember with programmatic is it's it's gonna
Speaker 1: want to go in there. My definition of programmatic is
Speaker 1: this belief that anything that can be digitized will ultimately
Speaker 1: be digitized, and if it is digitized, will be bought
Speaker 1: and sold by computer. Okay, that's it, agreed. We agree.
Speaker 1: We made every mistake possible when we first started our
Speaker 1: programmatic approach back in and I fought myself for that.
Speaker 1: You know, I came on board and thought it was
Speaker 1: and I will gladly you know, I learned more through
Speaker 1: my mistakes than than any other area, you know, in
Speaker 1: the past few years, in the programmatic area, where in
Speaker 1: year one, uh, you know, we made the wrong partnerships
Speaker 1: and we we had the wrong perception of programmatic. We
Speaker 1: the wrong perception is to go to market strategy. And
Speaker 1: I need to give Google credit and they don't get
Speaker 1: a lot of credit, a lot where people are complimenting
Speaker 1: them to the level that they deserve, Like their Google
Speaker 1: Adds team and the people that we work with over
Speaker 1: there have been absolutely phenomenal and sort of helping us
Speaker 1: course correct and look at how we should be building
Speaker 1: our stack properly and how we should be thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, go to market. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that we did with them, and it was an eye
Speaker 1: opening test, was on a random day, we opened up
Speaker 1: our inventory and we sold it at one dollar on
Speaker 1: the open exchange. And then a week later, on the
Speaker 1: exact same day, you know, and with like no major
Speaker 1: sort of variances, we opened up the exact same inventory
Speaker 1: and we sold it a hundred dollar CPM, and the
Speaker 1: exact same advertisers bought it at a hundred dollars. They
Speaker 1: bought it at one dollar. And it was just an
Speaker 1: eye opening moment for us where it showed that like
Speaker 1: a lot of time, people think that that you have
Speaker 1: to just give away the inventory at one dollar, and
Speaker 1: if you have premium inventory, um, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot that you should be thinking about more than just
Speaker 1: how do I move it. In our last episode, we
Speaker 1: just talked about the idea that like if that's the
Speaker 1: inventory we have to use right now. And that's as
Speaker 1: far as programmatic has advanced. Why aren't we taking measures
Speaker 1: and steps to at least be innovative within that creative
Speaker 1: space exactly so that we can change that outcome so
Speaker 1: that you can wake up that Tuesday. We can all
Speaker 1: wake up on that glorious Tuesday, and there's no I
Speaker 1: love this Tuesday, think and this last forever, there's a
Speaker 1: giving Tuesday. We should make our own average. So we
Speaker 1: have a little game that we play. We're gonna we're
Speaker 1: going to We're gonna play it with you. We're gonna
Speaker 1: play with you. This is a Keith that I rarely see.
Speaker 1: It's like very well, you're always composed, but it's like
Speaker 1: this very kind of like placid you. When we're in meetings,
Speaker 1: You're like, he's not he's not selling right now. This
Speaker 1: is a conversation. Wink wink um. Alright, so kill by
Speaker 1: d I Y. This is a very special game, Keith Grossman,
Speaker 1: Are you willing to take the plunge? The plunge? Ok So,
Speaker 1: what what would you kill? What would you kill in
Speaker 1: this industry? What would you buy? And what would you
Speaker 1: do it yourself? Okay? Can you give me an example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so some people say I would kill Netflix, I would
Speaker 1: buy Amazon, and I would d I y do Twitter yourself? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and would that means start a fresh and yeah, you
Speaker 1: can do it better. You can do it better. Okay, So, um,
Speaker 1: if I could kill anything, it would be uh, traditional spots,
Speaker 1: TV spots like TV spots seconds and fifties and traditional
Speaker 1: real estate. Yes, inventory, I hate you know what I hate?
Speaker 1: I hate. No, I would never you know, it was
Speaker 1: just like one thing I hate. And we've we've talked
Speaker 1: about this. Laura had a great rant one day about
Speaker 1: um the pre roll add and like Joe Marks, Fox
Speaker 1: just came out saying that they're going to do six
Speaker 1: six second ads. I think, um with YouTube like shorter formats,
Speaker 1: but I have this huge issue every time I year
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, it's just but it's not the length of
Speaker 1: time either. I had a standard ad format. It's like
Speaker 1: to your point, going back to daddy, will you read
Speaker 1: me branded content? It's like, give me something that's good
Speaker 1: and I'll watch it for thirty three seconds, for eleven
Speaker 1: seconds for and I just so I just want I
Speaker 1: want that look at the guy go at the two
Speaker 1: second dad that like does everything in two seconds and
Speaker 1: then it pauses and then like everything continues on against
Speaker 1: the pause screen except for one variable like dog. And
Speaker 1: he was like, you watch it forever and if you
Speaker 1: you know, like a great ample of like one of
Speaker 1: my favorite ads that that I watched close So sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm like sitting back in the room, but no, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, my one of my favorite recent ads that
Speaker 1: I've that I've seen is um the Nike Race to
Speaker 1: break two hours great marathons. I mean, first off, talked
Speaker 1: about an amazing ad I watched, I rooted, tweeted, I
Speaker 1: you know what was that an ad? Because in my
Speaker 1: opinion that like it delivered on the brand. It was entertainment.
Speaker 1: It was, but it was still in an AD format
Speaker 1: and it was still in like what two minutes. Like
Speaker 1: when it launched, it was like a ninety second spot
Speaker 1: or something. All the supporting content for it, they had
Speaker 1: much longer form stuff. If I wanted to get it,
Speaker 1: I watched and I continued to engage with it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if like I think that that's just
Speaker 1: just great content. If people are only watching three seconds
Speaker 1: of video on Facebook, could we start selling second increments?
Speaker 1: Like if I wanted to interesting if you wanted to
Speaker 1: do an eleven second add if you wanted to do
Speaker 1: a fourteen second ad I wanted to do. A big
Speaker 1: issue with time is not that that it's a bad metric.
Speaker 1: I actually think it's not a bad metric. The problem
Speaker 1: is is that there's no standardization to understand if time
Speaker 1: is good or not good. Right, So if you take time,
Speaker 1: by the way, is the best equalizer of any sort
Speaker 1: of the whole industry, Like it's the only commodity that
Speaker 1: every single person has the exact same amount of. It's
Speaker 1: the only commodity that you can't hoard, right, so like
Speaker 1: you have to actually give it away every day, and
Speaker 1: it's the only commodity that's being completely challenged, and and
Speaker 1: but then here's the issue, right, without a standardization of time,
Speaker 1: if I said to you, um, the average time on
Speaker 1: my site reading an article was five minutes, you would
Speaker 1: say that's a really good engagement. But what if I
Speaker 1: then told you that the only article that I was
Speaker 1: referencing off was like a picture of a gerbil like
Speaker 1: like fifty words like, then then you actually have someone
Speaker 1: who's a really slow reader. Um, Whereas you know, like
Speaker 1: you have to actually start to understand like how time
Speaker 1: should be measured and standardized against content that inspires you
Speaker 1: or informs you or entertains you, which is all going
Speaker 1: to be completely different. Once they solve that standardization of time,
Speaker 1: then it becomes a really impressive and valuable commodity. But
Speaker 1: until then, like there's no really great way in which
Speaker 1: you could say that all time can be equal or
Speaker 1: like three seconds on one side is guys, I have
Speaker 1: a whole new perspective on that. Can I say something
Speaker 1: when he said, Keith, when you said they haven't solved
Speaker 1: it yet, guess who the they is? I know as
Speaker 1: an industry. So I have a thought. I have my
Speaker 1: heart racing. Okay, that's what happens because my only but
Speaker 1: so I had a meeting recently with Vice, and I
Speaker 1: actually think that Viceland is doing this better than anybody,
Speaker 1: and they present they have And I am not a
Speaker 1: rabid consumer of the platform. Um. I sometimes scan what's
Speaker 1: happening on Viceland. If I catch something interesting, I'll tune in.
Speaker 1: I'm also not a I am a cord cutter. I'm
Speaker 1: not somebody who sets in front of my TV. I'm
Speaker 1: lucky I get five seconds ago the bathroom these days.
Speaker 1: But I think what's interesting about what Viceland UM says
Speaker 1: in their presentations, which I actually think is something they
Speaker 1: need to bring to the forefront and exploit. They use
Speaker 1: this term that they are or they believe that they
Speaker 1: are the stickiest network when it comes to use of
Speaker 1: what they call interstitials, which is what the industry would
Speaker 1: call commercial time. And they don't get of a ship
Speaker 1: if it's programming in five minutes or it's programming in
Speaker 1: five seconds. They seek to make whatever that time is.
Speaker 1: They need to fill in content as educational, aspirational, informational,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But it's fucking entertaining and it is
Speaker 1: not meant to hawk a brand. It's meant to provide
Speaker 1: some sort of value exchange within whatever that length of
Speaker 1: time is, and they seek to fill it with the
Speaker 1: most important content for whatever that point. And so I think, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you said, what is Joe Mark Casey's coming
Speaker 1: out with six second ads on Fox? And you've got
Speaker 1: Turner pushing two minute pods and less of them. But
Speaker 1: in reality, are we just perpetuating bad behavior and trying
Speaker 1: to use time as a way to you know, solve
Speaker 1: I agree that I don't the content has the content
Speaker 1: has to be I actually don't think times the issue.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's the content. It is the content,
Speaker 1: But the time thing is like part of the equation. Right,
Speaker 1: And as someone said this to me, um her name
Speaker 1: is um Addie and I can't remember her last name
Speaker 1: right now, but from decoded, and she said something the
Speaker 1: other day and she was like, listen, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, we have a huge time issue, right.
Speaker 1: You have more and more content flooding and less and
Speaker 1: less time to look at it. So you have a
Speaker 1: time and space issue that's occurring. And so I do
Speaker 1: think that that's important. But you're talking about quality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever camp of quality. If you put something compelling, I
Speaker 1: don't care if it's twenty minutes or twenty seconds. If
Speaker 1: it's great content, I'm going to watch it. That's totally right.
Speaker 1: I agree with you. But anyway, this is your game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is your game. Sorry, so you get you were
Speaker 1: killing I was sorry. I'm sorry, sorry you're killing killing. Standardization? Um,
Speaker 1: if I get so by is defined as as it
Speaker 1: is today, go out acquire like this needs to be
Speaker 1: a part of what I'm doing. Whatever whatever it might say.
Speaker 1: You want to buy Nathan sot dog. I mean, like
Speaker 1: stand not one not one dog. I would I I would,
Speaker 1: I would buy Amazon, Like I think that the infestion
Speaker 1: ho You've got a lot of money, listen. I think
Speaker 1: I think that what they're doing is so interesting. I
Speaker 1: think that they're laying a ecosystem on top of you know,
Speaker 1: platforms that that can engage with the consumer, and that
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like the Alexa, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just another touch point, the Echo show just another
Speaker 1: touch point, their homepage, their mobile experience, just another touch point,
Speaker 1: and they can provide services at a level that I
Speaker 1: think is just so endlessly fascinating. Um my, my, do
Speaker 1: it better would be by It would be like a
Speaker 1: third party measurement in Facebook or Google. Yes, I love
Speaker 1: it well and then never disappoints. Well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me on this. And if people want
Speaker 1: to get in touch with you, where can we find you?
Speaker 1: K Grossman ten at Bloomberg dot net to really ten
Speaker 1: of you know, I listened Bloomberg goes by like a
Speaker 1: weird numbers and but I'll tell you this is that
Speaker 1: you know, like, as you know, my best athleticism is emailing.
Speaker 1: And I were number time when I played soccer, so
Speaker 1: I knew I liked you. Dot net not dot com anyway,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming out, coming on. We wish you
Speaker 1: much success. We were excited to see the launch of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg seven. What is the name of the show or
Speaker 1: the network? And network is to be named? Let's not
Speaker 1: make it Bloomberg verified. Well, I think that ship is sailed.
Speaker 1: Just kidding any more? Do you get to end on
Speaker 1: such a meeting? We can come because I like you,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I want you to. I want I
Speaker 1: want the world to see the Alexa I know exactly
Speaker 1: love it. Thanks for coming. We're always rasing you. It's
Speaker 1: totally fun. You know. I'm very sensitive. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: home and cry. Keith gross and c r O Bloomberg everyone,
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. So that's it, Dirty dozen, squeaky clean.
Speaker 1: Keith Grossman, thank you for listening to Atlantia. Keith, thanks
Speaker 1: for being on. We have a few more thanks. Cameron
Speaker 1: Drew's our producer, what of Cameron Drews. Matt Turk our
Speaker 1: other executive brewer who, By the way, Matt, where the
Speaker 1: hell are you? I don't know? I just emailed me.
Speaker 1: When are you coming to New York. I want that
Speaker 1: Sun Valley. Yeah, riding sources. We'll be waiting for you
Speaker 1: here in Brooklyn with Andy Bowers. Andy Bowers, who we love,
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, who's just always a gem we see around
Speaker 1: the office. Thank you for all of your support, all
Speaker 1: of our friends in Atlantia, especially on Twitter blowing it up.
Speaker 1: We are having so much fun engaging with you, answering
Speaker 1: your questions. Keep them coming. We're gonna actually open up lines.
Speaker 1: So keep engaging with us, keep talking to us about things,
Speaker 1: because we will open up lines and have a really
Speaker 1: good conversation with all of the people who are engaging
Speaker 1: with us on Atlantia UM across the different platforms. So
Speaker 1: we'll be back with an all new Atlandia in two
Speaker 1: weeks with one of our favorite Girl Boss executives, Linda
Speaker 1: Cmo of g E have a go on everybody. When
Speaker 1: people think that this is the scariest time in the industry,
Speaker 1: I couldn't disagree more. I think this is the most fascinating.
Speaker 1: Agree you're willing to, you know, disregard necessarily sort of
Speaker 1: like the way things were, and you start almost dreaming
Speaker 1: as to what is possible. It's unbewievably excited. Full disclosure.
Speaker 1: Our opinions are our own.