WEBVTT - Is It Magic Tuesday Yet? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.600 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's a word purpose driven platform. Like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.640 trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.400 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.520 really is? What's up? I'm Laura currently and I'm Alexa Kristen. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.920 Welcome back to Atlantia. Episode twelve, The Dirty Dozen, The 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.680 duty doesn't And we had someone who's squeaky clean who's 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.840 joining us, Keith Grossman, the c r O of Bloomberg Media. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.040 So excited to have Keith. He is like literally everywhere 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.800 we've known him for actually before he was at Bloomberg, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.560 when he was at Wired. And we think that Bloomberg 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.680 is really interesting because they're well positioned not just as 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.440 a media company, right, but they have a portfolio of 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.400 products and something that we're going to talk about I 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.840 think pre Keith is they really own business audience in 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.680 a different way and they have opportunity need to break 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.600 out because they don't have the legacy relationships um to 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.319 cable companies to carry your fees to those types of 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.200 things that a lot of business news and media has today. Yeah, 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.760 I think one of the things that we should dive 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.400 into a little bit that appears to be on everybody's 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.319 mind these days is this idea of renting versus owning 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.760 your audience. And I think the Facebook Google duopoly which 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:31.000 basically owns the world, and this idea that publishers are feeling, 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.679 um squeeze, squeeze. Squeeze is a nice word, um basically 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.039 saying like, look, we have no choice seemingly but to 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.679 put our content on these platforms for discovery because this 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.840 is where audiences are in the feed or in the 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.840 nav bar, whatever the case may be. Um, within those Facebook, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.760 Google platforms and ecosystems. And so what does this leave 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.240 us with and doesn't leave us with audience right that 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.320 we actually own? And we Yeah, you're gonna say, like 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.160 we talked to Dave Plots on I don't remember what 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.160 episode it was, but about Atlas Obscura, and he had 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.760 a really smart, really clear comment about what happens for 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:13.080 publishers when they're just promoting on Facebook. Right, Like you 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.760 syndicate your content, you put it out there because you 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.200 can target right down to seemingly the person or very 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.040 very close to and they see your article, they see 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.239 your video, but you don't create a relationship with them. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.720 They've kind of thanked Facebook for putting something relevant in 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.400 their feed, and they move on. And then it's like, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.880 was that Atlas Obscuria or was that Expedia or was 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.360 that Airbnb? I don't know, but didn't matter no, because 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.200 I read the content and I moved on. And I 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.120 think his point was you own it, you don't own audience. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.239 And then what do you do? How do you actually 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.359 create a relationship that can go further and actually can 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.000 be monetized in meaningful ways to the publisher or a 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:56.280 brand from a financial perspective and from building out product perspective, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.720 But also you're doing it based on what the audience 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.640 want and likes, and you're super serving them, right, which 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:07.519 brings an interesting intersection in the industry and the fact 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.280 that you know you would then go to Bloomberg because 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.360 you know that people are engaging with that brand. Where 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.040 I think what David Plattz was getting to was, if 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.200 I'm a brand, why do I need to go to 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.600 Atlas Obscura when I can just cut through and build 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:27.720 similar content and use Facebook's platform and audience to reach 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:34.040 that same demographics. Right, And so that puts media companies 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:35.600 on their back foot to say, what else do we 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.520 have in this house that we can offer to brands 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.080 to engage them from a unique point of view? This 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:45.200 is classic marketing, right. You don't build a product because 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.840 you need to build a product right to monetize. You 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.000 build a product to serve a market need, right, and 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.600 what's the market need? And then you go in And 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.400 I think one of the most astonishing things in this 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.680 industry is for men, any of the larger media companies, 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.200 I don't even think they've begun to tap into or 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.120 think about exactly, like, what do I have within the 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:14.120 confines of this company that nobody else can produce? So 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.640 if you come to me Hulu, or you come to 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.479 me ESPN, or you come to me, insert you know 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.839 expert in this industry to the table and say, yeah, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.320 we can give you eyeballs an audience, but actually I 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.240 want to offer you intelligence. I want to educate you 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.640 on what people are doing in their homes sun up 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.920 to sundown around streaming. I'd rather pay you for that. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.880 Hulu then some Nielsen data set that's six months old. 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.240 That um is this a thousand person sample and we 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.400 don't know who those thousand people are. So diversify your portfolios. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.360 People come to us with something other to sell than 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.120 a three by two fifty. And after this break, we're 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.640 gonna wake up on a magic Tuesday with Keith Always 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.479 on Grossman three two fifties, we'll be back with Keith 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:19.760 Grossman from Bloomberg. So we're back with Keith Grossman, the 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.080 c r O of Bloomberg. Welcome, Keith, thank you, thanks 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.680 for having me a buddy of ours long time. And 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.640 if anyone doesn't know Keith, then something's wrong with you. You 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.640 You need to be on Instagram. You need to be 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.960 in If you're not, Yeah, exactly, but you should follow 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.080 Keith exactly. What's your Insta handle? I try to make 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.800 it very simple, Keith Grossman. I love it so Keith, 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.120 you were actually before we get into all of the 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:48.799 fun things happening at Bloomberg Media, tell everybody your favorite 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:56.000 marketoonistist Fishburne. If you don't follow him on Instagram, he's amazing. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.920 But he's a cartoonist who does cartoons that depict the 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.880 ridiculousness of our industry, which is also the impetus of 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.080 the show. I know. This is why I bring it up, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.600 and I think it's it's great. But my favorite all 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.320 time cartoon is because I have a three year old daughter, Ellie, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.400 and it's a father and he is sitting next to 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.800 his daughter at bedtime. She's in her bed and the 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:20.919 caption is she's holding a book and it says, Daddy, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.360 we read me this piece of branded content. It's right, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.920 And that's your litmus test. Yet to find an editor 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.120 that finds it funny. But but no, But in all seriousness, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.359 I think that it represents a really important aspect of 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.400 our industry, which is there is a point where when 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.720 you digitize content and you put it online, nobody distinguishes 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.760 between whether or not it is sponsored or if it's 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.960 editorially driven. They only see it as sponsored if it 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.240 is bad interesting. And I think that the two of you, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.000 from just knowing you both for years, would agree we do. 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:54.880 So tell us a little bit about what you've got 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.320 going on at Bloomberg Media, and you've just come off 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.600 the upfront and a lot of news that came out 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:04.960 of that Twitter Twitter dreaming news. Sure, So I don't 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:06.680 know if you how of me you are with what 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.200 Twitter is doing in terms of where they're looking at 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.760 their business. But as they realized that one of the 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:13.920 areas that they can grow on is in terms of 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.800 moving away from text based messaging and moving more towards 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.160 video streaming, we had the very fortunate ability to take 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.840 the existing partnership that we've had with Twitter and you know, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:30.720 parlayed into ultimately what will be seven live breaking news 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.960 social network that will go on there in November fifteenth. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.320 Is what we're they we're aiming for, and it's, uh, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.520 we're going to be the exclusive news network of Twitter 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.480 through and uh, you know, the response in the market 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.200 place has been amazing. Was the coverage that you did 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:53.520 of the twenty sixteen election a proxy for that. During 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.720 the election cycle, one of the things that we realized 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.320 was we have huge advantage by not having the authentication 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.880 requirements that other cable providers have, so we could stream 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.760 over the top two you know, Apple TV and Samsung 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.240 Smart hubs and the Roku devices. But then Twitter approached 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.320 us and we were able to also partner with them 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.520 and stream the presidential debates. The first one comes around, 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.240 we have two point one million people watching us on Twitter. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.119 Second one comes around, we have two point four million. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.040 The third one comes around, we have three point two 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.080 million people who are watching this. So really onto something 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.960 this is very interesting. Following that, we went to Twitter 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.800 and we struck an agreement where we took three non 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:38.000 endemic shows that we broadcast every day on Bloomberg's Linear TV, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.520 which is Bloomberg day Break America, our morning show Bloomberg 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.160 Would You Miss which is from with Joey Senthal, who 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:45.719 joined us about a year and a half ago, two 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.160 years ago from a business insider, and Bloomberg Technology, and 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:54.240 every day since October, we've been broadcasting these three shows. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.800 You could just watch them live on Twitter, the same 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.040 type of experience, and we have about a million people 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.360 a day who tune in and watch this. How does 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.080 that rival your linear audience? It's significantly. I mean, it's 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.440 just it's a huge an I know, but I want 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.000 you but but picture this right. So, Bloomberg's Linear TV 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.760 has always been very niche, very specific, very focused on 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.000 the financial core industry, which is why we chose three 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.120 shows that were non core. Right. Based on the success 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.000 of those three shows that we had that's what led 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.080 to the Twitter deal. But if you want to stat 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:28.800 and this is where I was saying, how you know, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.440 grandular do you want to get? But this is something 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.720 that I think you would really love. Um, if you 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:34.960 want a stat that will will blow your mind. When 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.560 the Komby testimony took place, we were the only camera 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.400 in the courtroom that could live stream it over Twitter, right, 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.040 and that was a part of your Twitter exclusivity. Well yeah, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.200 I mean we just Twitter came to us and they said, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.240 do you want to live stream this as well? And 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.000 at the last minute we just said yes. We thought 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.000 it made sense. It was also a good proof concept. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.280 We weren't so much about this and you know, a 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.400 lot of what we're learning with the viewing experience over 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.840 Twitter is very similar to when like I launched and 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.679 worked on the launch with my team on the tablet 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.480 edition a wired back in two thousands and where you 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.160 think you know everything until consumer behavior starts speaking place 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.520 and you start realizing a lot. But we do the 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.120 Komy live stream and two point seven million people watched 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.920 the Komy live stream over Twitter feed through the Boomberg 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.760 feed right. Um, to give you a comparison, nineteen point 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.280 five million people in total watched the Komby testimony on 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.760 cable television, so we had the point one three Nielsen 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.439 rating on Twitter. But to give you an even bigger example, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.320 during the Komy testimony, not only did two point seven 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.960 million people watch it, three point six million tweets took 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:45.120 place during that ceremony that during the testimony ceremony was 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:50.360 not a ceremony. Side of the aisle you're on that, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.040 we're not talking about it. But but of the two 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.840 point seven million, eight percent were under the age of 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.080 thirty five. If you want to talk about cord cutting 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.760 being a real stat you know, chord shaving being a 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.240 real issue. This is the reality of streaming and video content. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.960 You know, the word TV is not going to go away, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.319 but it will evolve. You know, my daughter, your your 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.640 daughter will look at the world and they'll say I 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.679 want to watch TV. But they won't mean I want 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.000 to watch winning or TV. They don't have that relationship 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.760 with now their cable provider. They have the relationship with 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.920 a screen and the viewing experience. That's right. I mean, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.000 we've said a couple of things. I was talking to 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.360 someone about this yesterday. Actually I was like why can 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:36.040 Bloomberg do this? Why can They're actually ripe right for 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.480 this type of relationship with Twitter because you don't have 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:44.400 the same relationships with cable. You don't have the fees 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.840 and the contracts and the right you're not held to 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:53.760 that old model, which is genius. It is totally open 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.199 if lets you guys play in areas that no one 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.160 probably can play in as quickly. So I mean we 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.480 our goal is is to ultimately be as aggressive as possible, 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.160 to be as innovative as possible, but not just to 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.240 do innovation for innovations sake. I mean, you could just 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.160 constantly say I'm doing new never done before. But at 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.199 the end of the day, for Bloomberg, the goal is 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.400 is not to just do that and be the first. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.400 The goal has to be that there has to be 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.320 utility to the user. Right, So if you look at 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.960 it like that wasn't the same thing with when I 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:25.840 was at Wired, And that's not a knock on Wired. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.000 But the expectation of the consumer audiences is if it's new, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.599 Wired has to be there, right. If the expectation of 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.600 Bloomberg is if it's new and you're there, it better 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.480 add value to my life. And so the case of Twitter, 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:38.960 it's very it makes a lot of sense. In the 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.600 case of you know, Amazon Alexa, US giving you know, 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.640 the updated news feed you know is very important. US 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.680 being on the Echo show the day at launch is 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.320 very important. US being on you know, even the eye 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.640 watch like for certain things, and on Samsung smart Watch 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.400 upon launch very important. US playing with VR like we 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.360 do it right. But the reality is is, you know, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.040 it's such a small niche area in the grand scheme 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.240 of the consumers who adopt it and actually play with it, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.880 that there's no huge payoff to be in that area now, 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.720 not yet, not yet, but we have talked about that. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.600 But I would say it's about the year that VR 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.760 actually scales, and at that point I would point out 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.160 that maybe a R is more interesting than VR. So 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.800 let's talk to us about studio, Like, talk to us 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.600 about what do you do? What is Bloomberg? You know, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.760 do you have an ad innovation lab? Are you doing 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.120 anything like not that you need it, right, but like, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.240 do you have something where you're actually looking at how 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.319 are we going to change the experience, you know, whether 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:47.160 it's incrementally or not for these new types of screening devices. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.920 And experiences and as it add content because we've talked 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.000 quite a bit back and forth the election and I 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.320 in meetings with you you know about is content really 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.720 the first thing that Bloomberg should be monetizing, where like 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.000 we've always been interested in the intelligence angle and say 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.200 we've like shook you right, like you can't get this 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.360 ship anywhere? Like this is amazing? Is this like an 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:15.000 like R rated podcast? Wells you concurse right now? Um? 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.840 So to answer your question, I would say, um, a 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.960 few things, So can I step back for one second 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.640 on it? Which is um? I think that it's very 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.400 easy for people to speak in definitives, right, so people 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.760 will say things like people hate advertising, and I think 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.800 that's bullshit. You just sent me the book End of 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.560 Advertising by Andrew Essex, but the whole premise of the 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.760 End of Advertising by Andrew Essex, which I thought was 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.760 a very fun We're going to have him on the show, hopefully, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.800 Andrew you're coming on the show. He knows I bought 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.680 three hundred copies of the book. I think I'm his 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.160 number one purchaser probably. I've been seeing Keith Grossman pop 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.360 ups on other people's channels now have notes from kind 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.480 of treating Everybody's hilarious on LinkedIn, and then I was like, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.120 where's my book? I got kind of like jealous. I 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:00.960 got a note from your person that I was sending 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:07.000 it to the wrong address. I didn't, Yeah, anyway, I did. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.880 I got jealous when I saw this guy's note, and 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.800 I was like, where's my note? The next day I 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:15.000 got my time make sure. I just want to know 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.680 who's writing those notes? Is that you know? No way 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:23.440 my hand, um no, but here you know, like I 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.000 think people want to say that that that advertising dad, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.280 or this is awful, it's bad advertising. Nobody wants bad advertising. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.560 Nobody wants it to be intrusive or offensive. And like 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.400 the whole point of his book is when all you're 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.480 doing is creating to create, and you're not actually thinking 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.320 about what the experience is, then all of a sudden, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.800 you're missing the bigger point. And when you're trying to 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.680 force feed like or force fit something into the wrong 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.480 canvas or the wrong experience or the wrong expectation, it's 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.360 a big miss. But if you look at one of 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.520 the most amazing elements of advertising, and the two examples 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:57.800 that he gives in the book and now you might 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.960 not even need addressings on this shop. You're his wrap. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.200 I am pretty much you know his pr on this. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:05.800 But if you if you look at the premise and 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.520 he gives two really good examples which were, um, you 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.560 know City Bike, which did a tremendous amount for you know, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.800 the City brand in terms of um lifting it up 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:20.520 from where it was from two thousand and none today Right, Um, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.720 it adds a tremendous amount of utility. Uh, there's no 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.080 doubt in my mind that that it is paid off 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.280 on it's r O Y regardless of what the metric 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.200 is worth, and that it's worth every penny of what 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.160 that investment was. And then take something on the flip 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.240 side of it, like the Lego movie, which I think 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.640 costs something like forty million dollars and it paid off 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.920 four hundred million dollars in box office sales. I'm curious 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.920 to know our brands coming to still looking for what 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.160 I'll call the stereotypical business decision maker and asking for 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:53.840 very monotonous things that can deliver B two B marketing strategy. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.000 Or are you finding that new brands or presumably you know, 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.080 repeat brands are coming in now starting to diversify that 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.640 ask and expecting you to help them kind of paint 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.840 this picture of what the next gen business consumer looks like. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.720 It's not neither or, but here's like a really interesting 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.080 stat And you know, obviously as a private company, we 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.480 don't go into, you know, a lot of our financials, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.720 but I'll give you just sort of a glimpse um 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:21.000 when you look at the partnerships of ours that partner 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.280 with us on one or two platforms, we have a 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:27.439 normalized attrition rate, let's say sevent. When you find a 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.719 partner who looks at how can we engage across your 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.920 platform and talk to your consumers across three platforms, that 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:38.520 attrition rate actually goes down from you know, and four 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.320 platforms it goes down even more. Five platforms it becomes 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.400 non existent. We almost find that we are, you know, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:50.360 having conversations with these partners that are completely um more 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.840 about the idea and how to bring the idea to 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.800 life than just as it's going to run and where 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.080 it's going to go. So we are most successful partnerships 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.760 are at that higher end of the spectrum where people 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:03.840 say idea first, and how can you bring it to life? 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.760 Or what's the strategy or at the programmatic end of 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.440 the spectrum, which is growing, you know, triple digit percentages 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.800 off of glow comps, but it will be a significant 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.520 eight figure revenue stream this year um up from essentially 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.840 zero back in the end of And so the area 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.480 that we're really losing out on or we're seeing disappear 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.359 are these here's an RFP, just respond and you know, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.160 give us placement where we could just run some ads. Yeah, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.560 I feel like that's well, I think that's become pretty 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.360 in vogue, not to URFP now right, Like generally it's 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.520 even if it's on rf it's sort of even the 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.040 like I have, like a few hundred thousand dollars, can 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.720 you just run this on XEX, Like it's just not 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.400 happening as much. Yeah, And I just think that it's 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.119 it's an interesting time where, you know, what you just 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.000 talked about our polar opposite sides of the spectrum, and 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.560 so this idea of like what exists in the middle 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:04.640 represents a really interesting paradigm shift for this industry. It's 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.320 like you've got one end of the continuum that is 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.280 pushing innovation and ideation and really strong strategic it seems 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.439 like for you going deep vertically and really getting the 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.360 best experience. Were spreading yourself than horizontally is the way 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.080 the best use your platform. And then you've got the 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.560 other guys that are after this really lucrative audience of 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.720 business decision makers, investors, and what happened. I mean, the 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.160 one thing to remember with programmatic is it's it's gonna 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.199 want to go in there. My definition of programmatic is 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.520 this belief that anything that can be digitized will ultimately 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.280 be digitized, and if it is digitized, will be bought 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.320 and sold by computer. Okay, that's it, agreed. We agree. 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.960 We made every mistake possible when we first started our 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.840 programmatic approach back in and I fought myself for that. 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.320 You know, I came on board and thought it was 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.040 and I will gladly you know, I learned more through 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.800 my mistakes than than any other area, you know, in 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.240 the past few years, in the programmatic area, where in 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.840 year one, uh, you know, we made the wrong partnerships 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.480 and we we had the wrong perception of programmatic. We 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.720 the wrong perception is to go to market strategy. And 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.440 I need to give Google credit and they don't get 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.320 a lot of credit, a lot where people are complimenting 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.600 them to the level that they deserve, Like their Google 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.760 Adds team and the people that we work with over 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.840 there have been absolutely phenomenal and sort of helping us 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.160 course correct and look at how we should be building 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.800 our stack properly and how we should be thinking about, 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.480 you know, go to market. And one of the things 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.200 that we did with them, and it was an eye 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:37.359 opening test, was on a random day, we opened up 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.080 our inventory and we sold it at one dollar on 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.399 the open exchange. And then a week later, on the 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.479 exact same day, you know, and with like no major 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.639 sort of variances, we opened up the exact same inventory 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.879 and we sold it a hundred dollar CPM, and the 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.600 exact same advertisers bought it at a hundred dollars. They 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:56.440 bought it at one dollar. And it was just an 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.879 eye opening moment for us where it showed that like 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.919 a lot of time, people think that that you have 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.360 to just give away the inventory at one dollar, and 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.199 if you have premium inventory, um, you know, there's a 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.640 lot that you should be thinking about more than just 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.159 how do I move it. In our last episode, we 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.800 just talked about the idea that like if that's the 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.480 inventory we have to use right now. And that's as 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:22.360 far as programmatic has advanced. Why aren't we taking measures 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.719 and steps to at least be innovative within that creative 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.560 space exactly so that we can change that outcome so 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:29.640