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Speaker 1: Hey, we welcome and I'm Doug Golliman. You are listening

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Speaker 1: to the All Ball Podcast, part of the Herd podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: You can check out The Doug Collie Show daily from

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Speaker 1: three to six Eastern Time, Towell three Pacific Series x

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Speaker 1: M two seventeen or two oh three. You can download

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Speaker 1: the pod you listen to it on the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sport Trader dot com or in your Fox

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Speaker 1: Sport Trade affiliate. Before we get to our guests this week,

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Speaker 1: who is Adam Morrison Fornational Player of the Year. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna just warn you we just talked for however

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Speaker 1: long this podcast is, we just talked, so there there

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Speaker 1: there are some curse words. If you have children in

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Speaker 1: the car, it's and not safe for work. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's not bad, but it's you know, not the language

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Speaker 1: that you know you're like popping in with your your kid.

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Speaker 1: Just know that this is how dudes talk and it

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Speaker 1: might not be cool with you. So I just want

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Speaker 1: to make sure you give you a little heads up anyway. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you wait to hear the stories, some co be stories,

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Speaker 1: some power stories, some what else was there? Phil Jackson,

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Speaker 1: Larry Brown, Mark, few great stories amazing stuff. Amazing. Um okay,

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Speaker 1: so here's let me just get to this Kevin Durant

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Speaker 1: thing real quick. Like I get that Kevin Durant wants

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Speaker 1: to paint the picture of where he actually is in

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Speaker 1: his life and how he really liked Oklahoma City and

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Speaker 1: wanted to go back but couldn't believe how bitter all

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Speaker 1: those people were, and really like Golden State and enjoyed

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Speaker 1: winning championship, but could never fit in there. But if

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Speaker 1: if you read all of these quotes, there's there's no

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Speaker 1: like give back, there's no there's no self deprecation there.

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Speaker 1: And I just like all you hear is, hey, I

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Speaker 1: was different from those guys, and you know I didn't

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Speaker 1: need to buy in their culture because I'm I'm not

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Speaker 1: like a kid, I'm an adult. There's just so much

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Speaker 1: pride there to not just admit, hey, I might not

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Speaker 1: have fit in there. I probably could have done some things.

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Speaker 1: It could have worked out differently. It didn't, but you know,

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Speaker 1: some of it's me and some of its them. No, no no, no,

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Speaker 1: if you read Kevin Durant's quotes, they're all somebody else,

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Speaker 1: and we all know as adults that's not really the

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Speaker 1: way it works. Any failed relationship I have um friendship

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Speaker 1: wise or otherwise, it was some because the other person,

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Speaker 1: but there was a good portion if that was because

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Speaker 1: of me. Any work relationship that ended right, some because

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Speaker 1: of other people, it's some cause of me that that's

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Speaker 1: really growing up. And I think what happens is he

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Speaker 1: thinks he's growing up by saying who he really is,

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Speaker 1: and maybe it is. But man, Kevin Durant sounds miserable,

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Speaker 1: just does not sound like a dude that has a

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Speaker 1: good time. And I understand that he doesn't love so

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Speaker 1: many elements of what makes an NBA player, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't stop him from using those elements. Right, there's a

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Speaker 1: contradiction there. I don't like social media. Why are you

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Speaker 1: on social media at the time. I don't like the

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Speaker 1: negativity of it, Then get off of it, No one

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Speaker 1: forces you to. It does not change his bottom line

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Speaker 1: at all. He's a multi multi multi millionaire ten times

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Speaker 1: over and probably will end up being a billionaire by

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Speaker 1: the time he's done. It doesn't need social media to

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Speaker 1: help him there. I don't love the negativity of social

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Speaker 1: media either, but I do actually need it for what

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Speaker 1: I do at work. He doesn't, So there's a weird

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Speaker 1: contradiction there. Hey, I spent the last three years telling

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Speaker 1: you I think Kevin rants the best player in the NBA,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna have to spend the next three years saying, like, God,

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Speaker 1: he's just a guy that struggles to fit in with

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Speaker 1: other people, just is. I'm not really sure the purpose

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Speaker 1: of doing another sit down interview other than to make

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Speaker 1: yourself feel good and maybe to keep explaining yourself. But

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Speaker 1: it's a lot like when you ever told a and

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Speaker 1: you're explaining, and the more you explain yourself, the more

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Speaker 1: you expose your fib That kind of feels like Kevin

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Speaker 1: drid doesn't mean he's lying, but the more he talks,

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Speaker 1: less likable he actually is. And I think the reason

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Speaker 1: he's talking is because he thinks it will make it

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Speaker 1: more likable. Be sure to catch live editions of The

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Speaker 1: Doug dot Leap Show week days in noon eastern three

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Speaker 1: pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app. Well, let's welcome into the All Ball Podcast.

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Speaker 1: The Nay Smith Memorial Player of Your also the Wooden

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Speaker 1: Award Player of the Year in college basketball. He was

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Speaker 1: the third overall pick of the two thousand three NBA

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Speaker 1: draft and a hero to so many in the country.

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Speaker 1: He's Adam Morrison. He joins us in the All Ball podcast. Amma,

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Speaker 1: how are you good ducks? Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Okay, your current location at this very moment

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Speaker 1: is where Spokene Washington home of his eggs. Are you

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Speaker 1: in the bunker? Do I have to clarify this one again?

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Speaker 1: I do not own a bunker, but I am not

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Speaker 1: in a bunker. I'm in my house. Uh yeah, so

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Speaker 1: uh no, I guess yeah. Of of the of the

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Speaker 1: of the urban myths about you, I would say the

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Speaker 1: bunker is probably the most prominent one currently, right are

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Speaker 1: there are other urban myths about you? I've heard them all, um,

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Speaker 1: I've had some odd interactions with people, uh as far

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Speaker 1: as certain urban myths or certain things that they've people

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Speaker 1: have said about me. So I think I guess the

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Speaker 1: bunker one is I guess the most prevalent one. But

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Speaker 1: I you know, I had to do the podcast tour

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Speaker 1: when it first happened, and I almost had to sue

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Speaker 1: Kyle Wilts, you're for it and blah blah blah. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's still it's the fun stuff telling everybody

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Speaker 1: that you're not a psycho. It gets, it gets, It

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Speaker 1: gets interesting to say the least. But uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like that I shot rifles for a while. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of a of your mind. And um, it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of the subculture up here in the Northwest. You also, look,

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Speaker 1: you have a family. I know you've posted stuff from

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Speaker 1: from a from a lake house. It feels it feels

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Speaker 1: like from the again, and like social media is not

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Speaker 1: always a direct parallel to what your real life is. Right,

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Speaker 1: A lot of us post things about our life and

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Speaker 1: then inside, you know, we we have all kinds of issues.

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Speaker 1: How is your life like to somebody who's gonna ask you,

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Speaker 1: how is your life? Uh, it's good. I mean I

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Speaker 1: got three, three kids. Um my oldest is eleven and

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Speaker 1: eight year old, and I just had my son is three,

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Speaker 1: just during three in August. Uh so yeah. I do

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Speaker 1: games for lear Field, I MG College for Donzega played

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Speaker 1: by play or color on the end during the winter.

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Speaker 1: So my summers are pretty free preopen. They're gonna be

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Speaker 1: a dad. I coach my daughter's oldest, my oldest daughters

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Speaker 1: a U team. UM, play a lot of golf. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm at the lake a lot about a like place

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Speaker 1: in Cort Lane about five years ago. So my life's okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess uh, I'm gonna watch college basketball for living

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Speaker 1: and uh be a debt your your your dad was

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Speaker 1: a basketball coach, right and so when, um, when when

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Speaker 1: you were born that was he was he was in Montana?

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Speaker 1: What it was a Dawson Community College that where he

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Speaker 1: was in Yep, what when did you first like when

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Speaker 1: did it first click? Like this is what I want

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Speaker 1: to do as far as soups just playing? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think just going up at um, you know, really being

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Speaker 1: around the game console him and you're a coaches kid,

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Speaker 1: I believe as well. So it was kind of brainwashed

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Speaker 1: to be a player. Um, and so I was just

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Speaker 1: always around the gym and um, you know, obviously it

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Speaker 1: really helped my career. Um, you know, just having that

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Speaker 1: experience in kind of that extra knowledge, especially at a

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Speaker 1: younger age to be able to be successful and um,

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Speaker 1: you know I was a gym raight growing up and

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Speaker 1: so um, you know, my skill development was a little

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Speaker 1: bit higher than most kids at the time, and it

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Speaker 1: really helped me, you know, get a scholarship and you know,

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Speaker 1: make its the NBA. Remind me when was it you

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Speaker 1: found out your diabetic It was fourteen. I got really sick. Uh,

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Speaker 1: eighth grade. I got really sick, lost probably at thirty pounds,

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Speaker 1: which obviously is a lot for you know how thin

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Speaker 1: my body type is in general, especially at that age.

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Speaker 1: I had to go to hospital, was in the hospital

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Speaker 1: for four or five days. I really didn't think I

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Speaker 1: was gonna be able to play sports at the time

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Speaker 1: because the technology wasn't where it is now. And I

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Speaker 1: was lucky. I had a really good and enderrochronologist that

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Speaker 1: really put me on the right path, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of used it as a discipline to help

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Speaker 1: me in athletics, because, um, you know, you have to

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Speaker 1: be so controlled to be able to play. I'm at

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Speaker 1: a high level. So I looked at it as a

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Speaker 1: blessing came back. But at the time it was very

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Speaker 1: worrisome because you know, okay, we just talked about I

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Speaker 1: was a gym rat, I was a coach's kid. I

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Speaker 1: loved the game, and then all of a sudden, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're having to go to the hospital and

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Speaker 1: tell you that you have to take shots and change

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Speaker 1: your diets, and you know, there's just that fear of

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Speaker 1: not knowing what's in the future health wise. Um. But again,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I used it as a positive and

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Speaker 1: I tried to use it as a discipline, and it really,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of changed my outlook as an athlete,

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Speaker 1: even though I was only eighth grade, of how you

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Speaker 1: have to eat and how you have to be cognizant

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Speaker 1: of how you treat your body. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it later on helps me a little bit. I think

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Speaker 1: it helps a lot. I mean, like, here's my perspective.

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Speaker 1: My dad was type two diabetic, and um so he

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Speaker 1: actually when I was like in he was like fifties,

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Speaker 1: how it was, I was like ten when he became

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Speaker 1: type two diabetic. Anyway, we basically started eating kind of

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Speaker 1: his diet and and you know, staying away from things

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Speaker 1: that were that you know, so high in sugars and

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Speaker 1: and kind of ahead of the curve in terms of

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Speaker 1: eliminating even complex carbohydrates, uh, you know, from from the

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Speaker 1: diet which now is the norm, and back then it

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Speaker 1: was the exception. Like again, you go to my high

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Speaker 1: school days and the night before game like go carbo load, right,

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Speaker 1: which you never yeah, you never do now. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I do feel like, like, look, the way people are

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Speaker 1: eating now, Like that's how I ate in high school,

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Speaker 1: and peas think it was crazy that we were eating

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Speaker 1: avocados and and and meats and and salads and and whatever.

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Speaker 1: I almost feel like, you know, look, in addition to

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Speaker 1: your skill and to your brain, like that probably end

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Speaker 1: up really helping you because you you, you start to

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Speaker 1: eat an athletes diet before anybody else would. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean I ate the same you don't type of

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Speaker 1: meal before every game since high school, all the way

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Speaker 1: to the n b A. You know, a long lasting

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Speaker 1: um protein and then a solid carbohydrate like potato, and

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Speaker 1: then a green vegetable and exactly right, guy, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: some guys, you know, I got to the league and

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Speaker 1: it was so funny because some guys would eat like

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Speaker 1: pancakes and syrup and eggs and bacon before games, and

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Speaker 1: like how do these guys do it? And you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously they're god given really good basketball players, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it really helped me down the line. You

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Speaker 1: show up at Gonzaga, a place where you know, like

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Speaker 1: I think what fourth grade? You move there? Right? Is

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Speaker 1: that that right? Yeah? So you show up Gonzaga, you

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Speaker 1: played a mead everybody locally knew you, but nationally we

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Speaker 1: did not, like, you know, if you would tell us, like, man,

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Speaker 1: we get this really good local kid or whatever. Um,

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Speaker 1: what do you remember about your first kind of your

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Speaker 1: first time on campus as a zag Uh? You know,

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Speaker 1: I just remember what really helped me being a local

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Speaker 1: kid was I was allowed to play pick up for

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Speaker 1: about a year as a high schooler, you know, or

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Speaker 1: you know, five months before the season, and so I

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Speaker 1: really got comfortable early. And then I had success during

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Speaker 1: those pickup type of games. UM, so that I kind

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Speaker 1: of knew going in that I had a good chance

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Speaker 1: because when I first recruited me, they told me that

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Speaker 1: they were going to gray shirt whatever that means, because

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Speaker 1: of the diabetes. Everybody was afraid. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: hardly recruited coming out of high school, and I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, breaking records and went to a state championship game.

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Speaker 1: We went to state the year before. UM, So it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like I was, you know, I just came literally

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere after one season. UM. So I think

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Speaker 1: just being in town and allowed to be around the

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Speaker 1: guys for like five six months really helped. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then I figured out that I was good enough to

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Speaker 1: play right away. So um, I think that was a

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Speaker 1: real advantage for me because um, instead of just getting

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Speaker 1: thrown in the fire right away or showing up, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously in the fall and then maybe realizing you're not

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Speaker 1: good enough or there's a skill set that you didn't

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Speaker 1: work hard enough at, or even you know how as

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Speaker 1: you see guys that are really highly recruited then they

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Speaker 1: get on campus and such as that. I also think,

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Speaker 1: and you tell me if I'm wrong, But also they

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Speaker 1: they knew you could play right whereas like my, my,

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Speaker 1: I remember when I could show up in Notre Dame like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I knew, I knew I could. I had confidence. Although

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Speaker 1: you know, we get to practice as a little bit

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed initially. Um, but you still you kind of have

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Speaker 1: to reprove yourself to those guys, especially the older guys,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they're like, you know, they don't like

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Speaker 1: especially back then, they really didn't like like younger guys

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Speaker 1: that didn't earn their kind of credit hours. Like I

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Speaker 1: could imagine that like Blake step and Corey Violette and Roney,

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Speaker 1: when you showed up because you had played you and

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Speaker 1: because you grew up in the area. You had some

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Speaker 1: equity there, whereas like when I was at Oklahoma State,

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Speaker 1: like one knew that I could really score when I

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Speaker 1: was in high school, and so there was no one,

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Speaker 1: no one ever never, no one ever thought it was

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Speaker 1: anything other than me, like, oh I can't you that's

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Speaker 1: just that's just the deal. Whereas with you, I think

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Speaker 1: automatically there was a little bit more, a lot more

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Speaker 1: respect because they had played with you, they had seen

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Speaker 1: how you play, they knew what you could do, and

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Speaker 1: so you didn't have to kind of re earn their trust.

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Speaker 1: It was already there absolutely. I mean that season, my

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Speaker 1: first year, we had six seniors and I ended up,

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Speaker 1: you know, playing nineteen twenty minutes off the bench, and

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Speaker 1: I think me playing so well in this in the summertime,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it gave me the equity. Blake step

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Speaker 1: help bank at those type of guys who tell coach

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Speaker 1: Few like, hey man, we got to play this kid

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Speaker 1: even though he's a true freshman and we're loaded. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was the year we went to uh We lost

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Speaker 1: in the bat in the second round, where were a

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Speaker 1: number two seeds in Seattle. So we were you know,

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Speaker 1: we were a really good callege team and a lot

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Speaker 1: of good players. So I think you're exactly right. When

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Speaker 1: you get the opportunity to play early, you can kind

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Speaker 1: of wash away the freshman aspect, And you're exactly right.

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Speaker 1: It's different now, like kids show up. Now nobody cares

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Speaker 1: that there's you know, freshman or sophomore and there, you know,

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Speaker 1: because there's hardly any seniors anymore. Back then, you kind

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Speaker 1: of had to. It was assumed that you weren't just

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Speaker 1: going to play just because you were young. Um, you

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Speaker 1: know for the most part. So I think exactly like

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Speaker 1: you said, being around the guys, proving myself a little

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Speaker 1: bit in in you know, pick up and just um

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Speaker 1: fitting in right away really helped my transition. When I

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Speaker 1: first got to Gonzgau of that team, who is the

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Speaker 1: biggest douche to you, who's like man? Because what I because?

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Speaker 1: But I remember about that about covering you then was

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Speaker 1: uh that you would get in these philosophical discussions with

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Speaker 1: guys and and Andy Katts and I would always talk

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Speaker 1: about like due, that dude is really smart and really

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Speaker 1: interesting and and that's kind of the one thing about

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Speaker 1: Zags is I always feel like there's other conversations outside

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Speaker 1: of just basketball, whether it's music or politics or whatever,

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Speaker 1: there had to be a one of those older guys.

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Speaker 1: I was like, dude, shut the funk up, I think.

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Speaker 1: And he's a good guy now and I see him

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Speaker 1: around town. But remember Tony Skinner start left handed. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he really liked me much when I was

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Speaker 1: at campus because I kind of took this spot a

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Speaker 1: little bit that last year. I do mean, I ate

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Speaker 1: up some of his minutes. But I see him around

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Speaker 1: town now, and you know, he's a good dude. That's

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Speaker 1: that's that's a hard one. That's a that's like a

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Speaker 1: really really hard one. That that's interesting you bring up, right,

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Speaker 1: a guy who Tony Skinner was a senior, you know

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Speaker 1: from Albuquerque, and and here comes this, you know, freshman,

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Speaker 1: local kid, you know, white kid coming in and takes

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Speaker 1: all his minutes and takes up all the air, and like,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a hard one to take, right, That's

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Speaker 1: a that's got to be interesting, absolutely, And you know,

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Speaker 1: looking back, especially, you know, you get older and a

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Speaker 1: lot Xaggs live in town and have families and are

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Speaker 1: good family men and good people. It's funny because you

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Speaker 1: you look back and you're like I'd probably have the

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Speaker 1: same reaction if it if it happened to me, And

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Speaker 1: it's not anybody's fault. It's just the way the cookie

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Speaker 1: crumbles sometimes, and um, you know what happened to me

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. You just get to a point where, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the ministers can't come even though you're not

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Speaker 1: really a bad player per se, it just happens. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that was It was a little bit tense sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing like rebounding drills and you know you've

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Speaker 1: probably been in a situation an older guy just wants

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Speaker 1: to really knock your head off just because um, not

329
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Speaker 1: not necessarily to get the rebound or two um, to

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Speaker 1: to make the play, it's to prove a point. So

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Speaker 1: there were some tense times. But story for him. So

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Speaker 1: when I get a notre dame, there's the other point

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Speaker 1: guard is add more white and the way it worked

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Speaker 1: then it still works this way some programs is you know,

335
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Speaker 1: like you would only have a freshman if you had

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Speaker 1: a junior point guard, right, like you'd have a year

337
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 1: space in between not recruit over guys and um um anyway,

338
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: so uh, in pick up, I was I was the

339
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 1: better player, although you know, like I went from one

340
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Speaker 1: seventies seven, that was when Creating first came out, and

341
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 1: I was lifting, I was yoked, so my my shooting

342
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 1: was struggling. But I was, you know, an open game.

343
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Speaker 1: But once we got to practice, like he was, I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I struggled to play in a system, you know, like

345
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Speaker 1: that's just not as the first time you really coached

346
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Speaker 1: and you're playing half court basketball and we didn't you know,

347
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 1: I was playing for John McCloud and he ran you know,

348
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,159
Speaker 1: kind of a true two side motion off. I was

349
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 1: just not comfortable and he was kicking my ass and

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Speaker 1: and we get ready for the first extra mission game.

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Speaker 1: I didn't play very much. The second Nation mission game,

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Speaker 1: I played well, but I got in foul trouble. So

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Speaker 1: we get ready for the for the for the for

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Speaker 1: the first game we're playing Akron and my first game

355
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Speaker 1: the other Dame and I only one of the reasons

356
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Speaker 1: I signed there was because they said, you know, he'll

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Speaker 1: start right away, you'll start for four years, and YadA, YadA, YadA,

358
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Speaker 1: and uh, and I wasn't. I hadn't really earned the

359
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 1: right to be a starter in practice. And I knew that,

360
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 1: and I was really struggling with that, and we had

361
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: this play. It was called X down glass and I've

362
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,640
Speaker 1: never seen anybody run it. And basically what it is

363
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 1: is X down was like a flex cut duck in

364
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Speaker 1: right and I would fake like I was coming off

365
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: uh a U C l a cut come back, catch

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Speaker 1: the ball. Pat Gartty be on the week side of floor,

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00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 1: set a flex pick and then duck in kind of

368
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: like that Maryland offense, throw a low bounce past. He

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00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: turned a little bit a little bit a little bit.

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00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 1: So X down glass was if they were fronting on

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00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 1: the duck in. Uh, Pat Gartty would would seal the

372
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: guy and you'd actually throw it off the glass and

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00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,679
Speaker 1: it would bounce to him and he catching laid in.

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00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 1: It's like an old NBA play. And um, look, ad

375
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 1: Moore White was he was like bow legged but freaky athletic,

376
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: but he was he was he kind of could be

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Speaker 1: like the reason they brought me in was he kind

378
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: of could be a turnover machine at times and um

379
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: with with creative passes, especially like he was. He's a

380
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 1: good player, a talented player, but he hated X down glass.

381
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: He fucking hated it. And like in practice, when we

382
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: do it, we go through like he would be on

383
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: the blue team, first team, might be on the Gold team.

384
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Speaker 1: We'd run it and every time he'd sunk up the

385
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: past and he he mumbled to me like a fucking

386
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: hate I hate that. I hate that play. I hate

387
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: that play. So we're playing Acron. It's the first game

388
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Speaker 1: of the season, and it's like the third time or

389
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: fourth time down the court, John McLeod does the he does,

390
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: crosses his uh middle and index finger and points down

391
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 1: and starts whistling. And that's the sign for X down

392
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: glass because they're front and in in the low post. And

393
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 1: I swear to god, I took off my sweats. I'm like,

394
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: this fucker is gonna throw it out of the bounds.

395
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: So he so, of course he airmails it into the

396
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: band and he gets hooked, and um and I played

397
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: well and he still are the next three games by

398
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: end up, you know, beating the Mountain and starting the

399
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 1: rest of the year. The good thing for me was,

400
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: even though he was a great dude, I think he

401
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: actually was more pissed at McLeod for calling plays that

402
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: he knew he couldn't do than he wasn't than he

403
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: wasn't me for taking his minutes. Uh yeah, I mean

404
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: there are times when it's, you know, like you said,

405
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: you feel as a freshman, you're like, man, should I

406
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: be playing these minutes? And then you know, you beat

407
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: out a guy and you just you kind of cringe

408
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 1: to yourself because you know, they always tell you if

409
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 1: you get beat out by a freshman, it's your fault.

410
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's nobody else's fault. And at least that's

411
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: what my dad told me going in after I was

412
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: when you're at GONZGA, it's like, hey man, they're going

413
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: to recruit over you. It's just how it goes the

414
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: way the cookie crumbles. So don't make sure that when

415
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: somebody shows up the first you know two weeks that

416
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: you kicked the ship out of somebody, just so they

417
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: know that you're not taking their spots. So um, it's

418
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: interesting now though, how the dynamics with the one and

419
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: duns and um all that stuff that college basketball. What

420
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: do you think, Doug? I mean, honestly, you watch a

421
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: lot of games. Do you think the product is as

422
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: good as it used to be or do you think

423
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of got, you know, watered down. Um,

424
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: I would say at the top, it's very much water down.

425
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 1: I would say in the middle, it's not. I mean, like, look,

426
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: it's interesting Gonzaga, how Gonzaga would always take a transfer

427
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: or two and now you know, it's grad transfers, it's

428
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: four year transfers, it's it's foreign kids. Um and though

429
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: there are the occasional you know, now you've got one

430
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,959
Speaker 1: and duns and two and duns, you also have you know,

431
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: more four and five year guys, which is kind of,

432
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: honestly how we did at Oaklahoma State a long time ago. Um.

433
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: And so Gonzaga is able to I think the product

434
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: call Gonzaga is as good or maybe better, to be

435
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: totally honest, whereas I think, you know, the Kentucky's and

436
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: the Dukes of the world, like those guys are freaky talented,

437
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: but they're not. There's just no way at eight nineteen

438
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: years old you're gonna be as good a shot maker

439
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: as smarter basketball players you are if you've lived it

440
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: for a couple of years and you know, um and

441
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: and so you know, trying to find that balance. I

442
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: think Kansas does usually does a really good job of

443
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: having the balance of one and done and and from

444
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: three and four year players, But no, I don't think

445
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: it's good for the sport. I don't think it's good

446
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: for the NBA. I think, um, I think that's the

447
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: big thing that it's missing is that so many in

448
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: my business or I guess our business, I want the

449
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: player to get paid that we missed, that we missed

450
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: that it's really not that good for the product to

451
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: have guys go and barely play as rookies and go

452
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: into the G League. You know, like it's just let

453
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: me let me ask you about you. So what what about?

454
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: What's your opinion? Like people do know my opinion. I

455
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: have a radio show every day. What's your opinion? I

456
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: think it should be zero or two? And um, you know,

457
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: I really think if you're good enough to play, or

458
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: perceived good enough to play, that you should be allowed

459
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: to go right away. And then if you go to college,

460
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: it should be too. And I think kind of like

461
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: what the NFL does is, you know, they do the

462
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: three year so everybody kind of weeds themselves out right,

463
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: and the herd kind of fins itself and you automatically

464
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: get to see if guys are ready to play. I

465
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: hate the idea that college basketball is like really ripping

466
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: people off. I think there's a value in an education.

467
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: There's value in walking out of the university without debt

468
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: um Now I come from you know, my years at

469
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: Gonzega I generated a lot of income for the university.

470
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: That's just the truth. And that's not me trying to

471
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: brag or anything like that. You know, it's this the truth.

472
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: So but but let me let me ask you this.

473
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. For the rest of your life,

474
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: like you do you do? You do games during the

475
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: year if you wanted to. You know, you have a book.

476
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't mean you could do a book.

477
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: You could do a movie, right, Like your your story

478
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: is a book. Your story is a movie. Um, and

479
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: you're Adam Morrison, Like, yes, I guess that. I get

480
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: that during that period of time they benefited financially from you.

481
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: But for the rest of their life like you're Adam

482
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: Morrison Gonzaga, Yeah, I agree, it didn't bother me. Is

483
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: what I'm was trying to say is everybody uses the

484
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: idea that you know, if you're not paying the players,

485
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: like they're obscenely getting ripped off. It's like there's only

486
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: a certain amount of college players that really generate a

487
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: lot of wealth for their universities. Um, so I always

488
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: looked at it as hey, I was borned the opportunity

489
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: to come back to school. They gave me that opportunity

490
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: to finished my degree because I went and finished about

491
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: about six years ago, and I walked out with no debt.

492
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: And then, like you said, I'm always attached to the

493
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: program and I get to use that likeness for my

494
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: own personal gain. I've made more relationships that I never

495
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: would have had. That's a that's a big that's a

496
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: big one that no one really is boosters people that

497
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: I would have never been able to rub elbows with. Um.

498
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: You know, in business wise, financially, I have the opportunity

499
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life to do that just

500
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: because of I made jump shots for three years for

501
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: the university. So, um, I think it should be zero

502
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: or two. I really believe. You know, if you're sixteen

503
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: year old whiz kid, they're gonna hire your in Wall

504
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: Street if you can make the money. So why can't

505
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: a kid go out and go to the NBA right away?

506
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: But then if they go, I think they should go

507
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: for two because one doesn't do anything for anybody. I

508
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: think you just go for a semester then you screw

509
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: you know you you say funk the rest of the year.

510
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: So that doesn't help anybody. You're you're totally getting rid

511
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: of the student athlete aspect. And then for the product,

512
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: how do you attach yourself to teams as a as

513
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: a fan? You know it used to be, you know,

514
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: how to get a good recruit in classes, like all right,

515
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: maybe in two years we can go to the final four,

516
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because they're going to grow together.

517
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: Now it's like, well, ship, let's hopefully catch lightning in

518
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: a bottle in a three weeks sport basically, and um,

519
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, see if we can make a run with

520
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: like you said, nine year old kids like a one

521
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: ft door and they got an agent in their years.

522
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: So I think it's zero or two in my opinion, Yeah,

523
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: I guess. My My issue with the zero is that

524
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: if you tell them they can go, they're all gonna go.

525
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: Even if even if you go like, hey, you're gonna

526
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: go to the G like that, that's fine, I'll go

527
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: to the like. Look, they've actually been able to go

528
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: to the G League since the G League cap. No

529
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: one does that because they because most people understand the

530
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: value of like look at look at Zion and how

531
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: he's benefited from the one year um, not just in

532
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: terms of his skill in his body, but in terms

533
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: of his prominence. Right, like it does. But I just

534
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: feel like they'll they all think I'll go to the

535
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: G League and then I'll go to the league, and like, dude,

536
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: you don't want to play in the I'm just telling

537
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: you you don't want that, Like you don't you want

538
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: the college experience, you want, the college girls you want,

539
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: you want the college fans, you want to There needs

540
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: to be you need that time in between high school

541
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: and the pros. And I would generally agree with you,

542
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: Like I, I don't understand why there has to be

543
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: a nun and done. Um. I guess the issue is there.

544
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: There is the occasional outlier, there is the Lebron James

545
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: that can do it, um, but but that's a one

546
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: in a million shot. Most of the guys need time

547
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: for seasoning. And I don't know. I just always feel

548
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: like college never never hurt anybody. I want to ask

549
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: you a couple of things college wise, before I want

550
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: to get to your your your pro experience. UM, the

551
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: U c L a game. Um, I'll tell you my

552
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: opinion of it, and then I want your all your

553
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: memories of it, and don't and feel free to not don't,

554
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: don't pull any punches. I think the national people, Uh,

555
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: there's lots of dudes who always they'll they put the

556
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: picture of you crying on the court in Oakland, and

557
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: to me, it could be a better picture of what

558
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: you were about, of what Gonzaga was about, of what

559
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: the tournaments about, because like, that's what it that's what

560
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: it really feels like to lose that lad, that was

561
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: your last game as a college player. It it And

562
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: I always thought like people make fun of guys to

563
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: crying for games, like, well if you don't cry, and

564
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: it didn't matter to you, right, like if you don't cry,

565
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: like doesn't doesn't matter, and it really mattered. What I

566
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: remembered was like the m O of Gonzaga was, man,

567
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: you guys were We're tough and skilled, but uh, there

568
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: was like few We got a reputation, which I don't

569
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: know if it was well deserved of a guy who

570
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, he was so he's so balanced in life,

571
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: but maybe not maybe too balanced, right it He didn't

572
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: he wasn't gritty enough. He wasn't nasty enough, like he's

573
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: a preacher's kid. He's a super nice guy. And maybe

574
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: that's what got exposed when they started pressing you guys

575
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: and you started throwing the ball all over the gym.

576
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I look it back at that

577
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: moment and I'm devastated for you, because you guys did

578
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: have a great team. You did have a big lead

579
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: over a super talent u c l A team. And

580
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: everyone's takeaway from that game is you sitting on the

581
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: court crying, when the former basketball player in me just

582
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: loves that because it meant something to you. And I

583
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: know how quickly it's over, and that that feeling of

584
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: it being over is really hard. So let's go to

585
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: you u c L A game, Just go Yeah, A

586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: lot of what you said I agree with. I mean,

587
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: we had a big lead. Um you know, we were

588
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: up I think six team was about five and a

589
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: half minutes ago, and just really like you said, throwing

590
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: the ball over the floor. I took a really bad

591
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: jump shot laid against Jordan Farmer. I should have bounced

592
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: them down, probably got say eight feet and you know,

593
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: shot my little runner jump hook in the lane might

594
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: have got filed. They had like ten things that had

595
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: to go right, go right, you know what I mean,

596
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: steel Jordan's arm or hit a running bank with you know,

597
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: end of the shot clock. And then going to the

598
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: emotional aspect um. You know, we thought we had a

599
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Final four type team. I was a local kid. Obviously

600
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: there was a ton of exposure that year for college

601
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: basketball and for myself and JJ Reddick. So there was

602
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: all the pressure, all the eyeballs are on us, and

603
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: you tell yourself, don't look ahead, but it's a little

604
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: bit hard not to when you're up fifteen with five

605
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and a half minutes ago. And I think that's kind

606
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: of what happened a little bit. And so it was

607
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: like getting punched in the gut. It was like having

608
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: your hand, you know, on the trophy or you know,

609
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: on the lead eight game, and its just being taken

610
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: away from you instantly. Um, And then you're exactly right

611
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: with the emotion stuff. Every serious athlete of any worse

612
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: has cried in the locker him or like you said,

613
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: they really didn't get a ship. Um. Everybody's crying in

614
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: the lock room after every loss um in the tournament. Um,

615
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: that's been always been my experience. I helped coach at

616
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Gonzega for a couple of years on a Spanish of

617
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: my degree, and always games on the radio every single

618
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: every year that they lose. Guys are always emotional, and

619
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: that is exactly right. It means they actually care. Um.

620
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: It was tough to swallow getting hammered, you know, personally

621
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: and made fun of constantly. Um. And that was the

622
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: Arab right before kind of the internet went crazy. So

623
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine what it would beat now, um, you know,

624
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: as far as memes and stuff like that. Um. But

625
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: it was just really a really tough thing to swallow

626
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: because we lost in Memphis that year at Memphis, and

627
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: we thought we should have beat him, and so we

628
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: were looking ahead. We were going to play him again

629
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: to go to the final four, and we knew they

630
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: feared us, and I had a really good game game

631
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: I think at thirty four, played really well like my matchup, um,

632
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, and so we were just it was just

633
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: such a tough thing that until the swallow. And you

634
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: know that that sounds cliche, but I mean we literally

635
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: we're kind of looking ahead and then you know, the

636
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: emotion stuff. I've never been ashamed of it because it's

637
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: just who I who I was, and I was an

638
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: emotional player. I weared my emotions on my sleeve. But

639
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: I would never be ashamed of being upset for putting

640
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: your heart into a season and being a local kid.

641
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I was a ball boy. This is like

642
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: my dream to take Hanzega to the final four or

643
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: at least have an opportunity to get back to the

644
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: lead eight. And it just happened so sudden. Um so uh,

645
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: it was tough for a couple of years to really

646
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: think about it, to talk about it. I guess a

647
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: little PTSD if you want to go that far. But also,

648
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: um again, I'm not ashamed of of showing emotion um

649
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: that season and that those memories and being in college

650
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: or some of the best relationships and memories I've had

651
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: as an adult. Um So it's um something that I'll

652
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: always be connected with and I'm aware of that and

653
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't bother me anymore, to be honest. Michigan

654
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: State game, you're is that your virtuoso? If like you said, like, hey,

655
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, if you're I don't know if your kids

656
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: ever like, hey, I wanna watch one game of you

657
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: playing that year, you guys had that I was double

658
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: or triple overtime. You had like forty three or something

659
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: against Michigan State in the semis in Maui. Uh Is

660
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: that is that the game? What's and it doesn't have

661
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: to be one that we all remember. If there's one

662
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: game that you like, watch this tape, that's when that's

663
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: my favorite game I played. I think that one is

664
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: definitely up there, um because of the circumstances and um,

665
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, that's obviously a big market game and being

666
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: in Maui. But I think one of the best, my

667
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: greatest college game for me personally was we got beat

668
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: by Illinois by like thirty five and Concico Field House

669
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: and just got our asses showed like the whole flight

670
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: home rightfully, So I mean we just got killed. That

671
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: was that. That good Illinois team with Darren Williams, Um Augustine,

672
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: all those guys your sophomore year, just my sophomore year.

673
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: And then we had to come back home and play

674
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: University of Washington Robinson, Brandon Roy, Trey Simmons, Bobby Jones,

675
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, really good players, and we beat them. I

676
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: think the score was like two and it was just

677
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: one of those atmospheres that was special. And it was

678
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: a gut a little, a little gut check game. You know,

679
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: we were really young that year, um, and it was

680
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: a quick turnaround, so we kind of just had to

681
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: look at it, look in the mirror. And you know

682
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: that rivalry is is pretty pretty special around here, obviously,

683
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: gonz and doub and so that's the game I probably

684
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: show my kids and say, hey, look look at this one.

685
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: Look at the cry. Look how hard we were playing. Um,

686
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: you know I played well that game obviously, and so

687
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: you know there's a lot of them. I mean I

688
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: got the box, I got the box score up. You

689
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: want to you want to know? Yeah, alright, so, uh,

690
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: you had twenty six on nineteen shots, eight rebounds, three

691
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: assists too steals. Ronny had twenty three. Uh, Derek is

692
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: it rivo Ravio? What the hell is his last name?

693
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: It changed? I called him rab and scraped meat, so

694
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean Suddy. I've heard him say both. So I

695
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: really don't know, to be honest, I know I know,

696
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: but he like changed his name like three times in

697
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: in in one college career. It's really right. Yeah. Um,

698
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: Sean Mallen had had sixteen in twenty minutes, by the way.

699
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: Um and for for them, uh Nate had twenty two,

700
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: will Conroy had fourteen. They combined for Yeah, they combined

701
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: for seventeen. They combined for seventeen assists. Um. They they

702
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: didn't make their free throws. They're nine to seventeen from

703
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: the free throw line. Yeah, but those those games were awesome.

704
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: I I always felt like you guys, I mean that's

705
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: like that, that's like, you know, Seattle versus the sut

706
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: not necessarily suburbs, but like you guys had guys from Vancouver, Washington, right,

707
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: like Ravio, you had guys from like you from from Spokane,

708
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: you had Canadian dudes, and Pargo came in from Chicago, right,

709
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: But you guys were the you know, Seattle has this

710
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: hey man, we got all these you know, we got

711
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: all these players that can go get buckets. I don't know,

712
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: it's just it's a very it's an interesting rivalry that

713
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: unfortunately went away for a while. Now it's back and

714
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: and you dub is not quite there yet. But it

715
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: was that those games were always great, absolutely, and it

716
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: was you know, Seattle is such a hotbed to recruiting wise,

717
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: and it's Rainier Beach and Garfield. Um, a really good

718
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: call or high school programs, and so you know, being

719
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: from the state, we always heard about how good Rainier

720
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: Beach and those teams really were, so we we always

721
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: had a kind of a chip on our shoulder. And

722
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: then it was kind of two contrasting styles. Like you said,

723
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: it was usually a bunch of athletes, but the guys

724
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: that can get up in above the ram and run,

725
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: and we were kind of more of a system type team.

726
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: And you know our rivalry. I think we won eighth

727
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: straight and then we lost my junior year at their

728
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: place for the first time. That was a tough one

729
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: to swallow. Two but um, yeah, it's a really cool

730
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: rival I'm glad. I'm glad it's back. It's fun to

731
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: call to as a commentator. Um, just because, um, the

732
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: universities are so different in a sense. I mean, obviously

733
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: there's two private schools, but the philosophies basketball wise are

734
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: just so different. And it's fun to watch the two

735
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: contrasting styles for sure. You mean your best Mark Few stories,

736
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: any any Mark Few story at I'll just give me

737
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: on there's a couple. There's one after we played Stanford.

738
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: You remember that Stanford team that went like undefeated and

739
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 1: lost in the second round that year. So we lose

740
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: to them in Oakland, and I have a good game, um,

741
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: you know after off the bench as a freshman, had

742
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: like twenty or something like that. But we just got

743
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: our asses we asked by and so we lost. He

744
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: only lost by seven by the way he lost, but

745
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: we we were down fixty in the whole game, like

746
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: we we shouldn't have. Yeah, we we were score not

747
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: score not indicative of the final score. I don't really playing. Okay.

748
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: So we get back on the um, you know from

749
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: the flights, and this is when we had a flight commercial. Um.

750
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: So it's a long day and we're driving up to

751
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: the gym and it's you know, it's probably thirty degrees

752
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: out and see he gets on the thing. He's like,

753
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: all right, we're practicing right now. It's like, oh fuck.

754
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: And so we get to the gym and everybody's kind

755
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: of nervous. New every basketball player has been that situation

756
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: when you just feel the intensity and the awkwardness and

757
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: people are piste off, but you can't really say anything.

758
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: You're just waiting to see what are we gonna just

759
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: gonna run lines. Are we gonna beat the ship out excidly?

760
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: What's going on? Everybody's tired. And he pulls me to

761
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: the side and he just, I mean fucking rips into

762
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: me like you're the biggest pussy I've ever seen. You

763
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: think you're Larry Bird. You're like Keky fucking Vanderway, Like

764
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: this fucking killed me. And I'm like, welven up tears,

765
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: you know, Like I'm eighteen year old kid, and I'm like,

766
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: and I just scored twenty on Stanford, you know, on

767
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: national television, like I played well, and he just, I

768
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: mean like put me in my place, like you can't believe.

769
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: And my dad was a hardass coach, and um, he

770
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: really taught me how to handle that stuff. But a

771
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: few we got personal. So that one was a tough one.

772
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: But I mean there's been some other ones where. And

773
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: Derek Ravio threw a ball up in the air one

774
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: time and practice in a you know, late game situation.

775
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: We were of fucking screw off freshman kids. So we

776
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: were celebrating, like we just because we beat the first team,

777
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: and the ball just went straight up in the air

778
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 1: and it was like a cartoon, like you just said,

779
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: and he walks right into and hit some straight on

780
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: the top of the head. And it was one of

781
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: those where everybody like freezes and you're waiting for him

782
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: to like cuss everybody out, and he just didn't say anything,

783
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: kept kept walking along and kept coaching again, and it

784
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: was like, holy sh it, like there's already after they

785
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: transfer right now. But yeah, I got, I got, I

786
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: got what I got one for you? Okay, So because

787
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: I played Freddie Sutton, now this is before I got there.

788
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: This is the legendary Eddie Sutton charge story. So, uh,

789
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: coach obviously was he's an alcoholic and so he was

790
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: at the time when he got fired at Kentucky, took

791
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: year off and he was recovering alcoholics, so he you know,

792
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: like he was he became a big candy guy, so

793
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: he always had candy in his pockets. So one of

794
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: his first teams there, like as soon as he took over,

795
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: they started winning. They were his second year, they started

796
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: twenty and oh and I think it's a second in

797
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: your team and they had Byron Houston the Big Country

798
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: as a freshman that this guy named John potter Um.

799
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: And so at some point during practice, you know, he's like, stop,

800
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: you guys are so soft. Now I want to use

801
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: a college man. You can't take it. Somebody run me over.

802
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: I'll show you how to take a charge. Right. So

803
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: he plants his feet like in the middle of lane,

804
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: and all these guys like, no fucking way, I'm not

805
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: running the old man over right. And so John Potter,

806
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: he's like six eight probably two thirty, it's like, fucking

807
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: I'll run him over. So he gets the ball and

808
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: like our charge Old Oaklama State was like, somebody throw

809
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: you a ball and you just run the dude over right,

810
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: And he's supposed to take a little contact fallback act

811
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: like you got killed. So he takes some contact and

812
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there's candy everywhere, right, just every

813
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: and and Potter got him like ran him over, and

814
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: there's candy and the managers are scrambling around like he's

815
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: a pinata, right, like picking up the pieces of candy.

816
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: And he got and uh and and then you know, somebody,

817
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: all the players like help him up, and he's like

818
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Dustin said, I'm all right, I'm all right. Like now

819
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: that's how you take a charge. So there's a there's

820
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: a bathroom at the old arena before they we did it.

821
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: That was like at the floor level that only the

822
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: coaches could use. So I gotta go take a pee.

823
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: And he no one saw him for like two days

824
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: after that. So I don't know if you had internal

825
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: bleeding or or ship like that. Um. I remember there's

826
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: a story in Indiana Brian Evans told me that one time.

827
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: You know, coaches sometimes are in the middle practice or coaching,

828
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: you get their whistle, whatever they're yelling at you. They

829
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: forget that it's transition, and so somebody misses a shot

830
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: and they got gotta get caught up in like the

831
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: the herd running down the court. There's some famous video

832
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: of Bob Knight getting run over by like three dudes,

833
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: and and I guess when they had a bad day,

834
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: they go back to some of the manager's house and

835
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: they'd all watched the film of Bob Knight getting run

836
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: over and just laughed the ass off, cheer cheer up

837
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah that's funny. So so you get uh,

838
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: so you you finished it, guns you're a junior. Was

839
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: there ever any thought let's come back like your national

840
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: player year you led the country and scoring. Was there

841
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: ever thought I should come back and do it again. Uh,

842
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: there really wasn't. Even my sophomore year I did the

843
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: you know where you can write in and you know,

844
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: scouts and agents give you your potential draft position. So

845
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: after that year there was it just made sense to go.

846
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: Um fewie and everybody tried to give me to stay.

847
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: They understood, and I think I think it was kind

848
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: of good on both sides because everybody was getting kind

849
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: of fatigued with all the attention as well. So no,

850
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: I was. I wasn't planning on coming back after that

851
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: junior season. What was the what was the pre draft

852
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: process like for you? I worked out for four teams

853
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: and it was good. I did all the workouts with

854
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: other guys. Um, you know a lot of higher picks

855
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: usually don't do workouts. My agent spot process, who was

856
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: Mark Bartlestein, was I look better going against guys because

857
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't look so good by myself because I wasn't

858
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: too per athletic, blah blah blah. The body wasn't great. Um.

859
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: So I worked out for Chicago, UM, Portland obviously, Charlotte,

860
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: and I think I did Toronto as well. Um, so

861
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: it was well. I felt good about all my workouts. Uh, Portland,

862
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: I kind of got my ask kicked by Rudy Gay

863
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um. He was a tough matchup just

864
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: in general, as he was so athletic and so long. Um.

865
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: But the other ones, I, you know, I played well

866
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: and felt good about him. Shot the ball. Well who's

867
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: who's Um, I kicked the ship out of Rodney. Carney,

868
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: good dude, But I kicked the ship out of him

869
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: in the Chicago workout. Um, Chicago drafted him, by the way,

870
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: and then I kicked ship out of They had a

871
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: foreign kid. Um because some of the guys are throw

872
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: into you know, just for you know, they'll bring in

873
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: two guys and then they'll bring two more. Um. Uh.

874
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: In Toronto, I camera with the guy's name. But I

875
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: had a really good work on Toronto, and I was

876
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: actually kind of worried. I was like, well, funk man,

877
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: like I might be the number one pick. Like this

878
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: is gonna be fucking crazy because I played so well

879
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: in that workout. Obviously that didn't that didn't happen. But um,

880
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: the draft processes is interesting because you've got to be

881
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: in the best shape of your life and you don't

882
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: realize how out of shape you are per se college

883
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: the NBA until you really go through the process, and

884
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: then you're like, man, I wish I would have been

885
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 1: in this good of shape. Um in college, I would

886
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: have averaged more points, that would have played better. Um.

887
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: But that's just part of the process. You give it

888
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: the right trainer, and they can really elevate your game obviously.

889
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is I feel like it's the

890
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: same when you get to college. Like when you get

891
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 1: to college, you're like, man, I thought I worked hard,

892
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: Like I played for a really good high school coaches

893
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: now junior college coach, and my dad was a coach

894
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: like yours, And you think you've been through hard practices

895
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: and like you have no idea what it's like to

896
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: like really play hard. Right. That's that's the thing that

897
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: college brings to you, is it teaches you how to

898
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: really play hard, how to really compete in practice. And

899
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: then yeah, when then you get ready for the NBA

900
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I mean I'm in the best

901
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: shape of my life. And then you get up now

902
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: going You're like, holy crap, why is this so much?

903
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: And and every guy you're going against is longer more

904
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: athletic and they're in crazy good shape. Yeah. Absolutely, I

905
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: mean it's really and I know I opener. I mean

906
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: I trained with Don McClean. He still does um guys,

907
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: he's really good and he got you know, the amount

908
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: of running I did pre draft was insane. But again

909
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: it really you know, just elevated your game because you're

910
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: just you know, you can jump higher, obviously, run faster.

911
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: Um when you're in really good chamming. We would shoot

912
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: and then run a sixteen, then shooting run two sixteens,

913
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: then shooting run three sixteen. We got up to do

914
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: an eight um in a practice, you know, in the

915
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: course of a workout, and it was just sucking insane.

916
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: But you know, when you look back, you're like, man,

917
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: why didn't I want anyway whisper in my year earlier

918
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: in my career because this would have really helped. But

919
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: that's the whole process is crazy, you know, because the

920
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: interviews are crazy, um, because you don't know really what

921
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: to say and you're a young kid, but you've got

922
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're not looking like an idiot

923
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. So but you're also you're also

924
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: you're also like a you're a guy who likes to

925
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: talk and sometimes likes to argue and stand by your like,

926
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: did you get into any like interesting discussions or arguments

927
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: with anybody or did you did you just kind of

928
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: let it go and play and and and and just

929
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: play nice. I remember Scott Skile's uh, you know, he

930
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: was a coach Chicago. He was funny because we were

931
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: doing a workout and somebody wore a headband and he

932
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: had the no headband role and apparently this I can't

933
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: remember who it was, didn't know it, and he just

934
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: fucking shoot this guy out right in the middle of

935
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: his workout, like you know, and he was like I

936
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: could literally be at lunch right now watching you fuckers,

937
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: you know, like just chewing us out. And then I

938
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: go have his his interview with him in his office

939
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: and he was just so blunt and so like bland.

940
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, he's I don't know him as a person.

941
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to kill his character or anything like that,

942
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: but he was just like kind of a abrasive and

943
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: such an asshole, you know, And you're just sitting there like, funk,

944
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: who wants to sucking sign up to play for this guy?

945
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: You know? But you know that's how he played in

946
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: the league for fifteen years, short white guy, so I

947
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: kind of get the mentality. Um, but it was definitely UM.

948
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't used to it, you know what I mean.

949
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: I usually when you're going to those type of situations

950
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: that obviously want to open to God, but they're kind

951
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: of trying to treat you in a in a sense

952
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: or at least get to know you, um, on a

953
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: happy level, if that makes any any sense, I guess, yeah, yeah, Okay,

954
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: So you go to Charlotte. Was George the workout. Jordan

955
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: was not a Jordan was not at the workout. Jordan

956
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: wasn't even really involved until my second year is when

957
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: he I think purchased the team or positioned them else.

958
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: The person of the team it was, it was um.

959
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: It wasn't Rod Higgins. It was Bernie Bickerston. I can't

960
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: believe it was within on his name, but yeah, Bernie

961
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: biggerstaff was the one who made the decisions draft me. Um.

962
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: But Jordan was kind of on the outside. He was

963
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: a minority owner, so we'd see him every once in

964
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: a while, but he wasn't as all years now for sure. Okay,

965
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: so draft night, did you know they were going to

966
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: take you. I had a good idea, but I wasn't sure. Um.

967
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: My agent told me it was either going to be Charlotte.

968
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 1: And then I remember Nate McMillan told me in Portland,

969
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: he goes, if you follow me, I'll probably take you,

970
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: which he could argue, um if he was serious or not,

971
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: because he's you know, sometimes people to say that to

972
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: make you feel good. UM. So yeah, I was. I

973
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: was pretty sure that I was gonna go, you know,

974
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: at least six or six and below, um for sure. UM.

975
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: So yeah that that. It was a cool process, but

976
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 1: also a very nervous process. And I was very shy

977
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: um at that time, so all the cameras and stuff

978
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: really made me uncomfortable. Um, but it was part of

979
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: the gig. And you know, I got through the night

980
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: and it was a really cool experience. Obviously it's the

981
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: cliche stuff, but you know, you end up literally winning

982
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: the lottery, um essentially, And you know, my friends and

983
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: family are there. My high school coach was there, my

984
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: dad who who coached me in my whole life was there. Obviously,

985
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: my sisters and my mom. So that's a really special experience.

986
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: Everybody got to go to New York was the first time.

987
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: You know, we were small town type of people. Um.

988
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: So that whole experience was something that we all kind

989
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: of looked back on with, you know, very fond memories.

990
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: You show up, so you're drafted, you show up, your

991
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: first your first training camp. What was it like? It was?

992
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: It was pretty good. We went to I think Greensboro

993
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: is where we went, and um, you know, physically taxing. Um.

994
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: You know, I was still trying to figure out the

995
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, how diabetes is going to play into the

996
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: NBA game with eighty two games and you know, just

997
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, everybody stronger, faster, um, so it

998
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: was difficult. Um. At first, I thought I had a

999
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: pretty good training camp, pretty good precusing that, um, you know,

1000
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: my first year, and it was Bernie Bickerstaff was more

1001
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: of a players coach, so we'd go two days, but

1002
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: we weren't. It wasn't horrible. I mean I did a

1003
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: training camp with Larry Brown, so I mean that's it's

1004
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: night and day compared um to what coach Brown was like. Um,

1005
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: so Bernie was Bernie was cool. Um, so you know,

1006
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: just getting trying to get your fee in. What was

1007
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: different about Charlotte was you know, the guys before we're

1008
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: all throw away expansion draft guys, right, so everybody literally,

1009
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: I know it's pro basketball and you've experienced this stuff,

1010
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: but every guy was trying to make something like there

1011
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: was no team orientation at all. I mean, it was

1012
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: like everybody was either early draft pick or they got

1013
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: picked up on the expansion draft. So like every guy,

1014
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: those guys had one ft out the league. And then

1015
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: we're all young college players. So going from Gonzaga to uh,

1016
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, I got your back blah blah blah, that

1017
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: type of atmosphere and then going into the pros is

1018
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: really was really an eye opener for me. It really,

1019
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was I just, yeah, I

1020
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: just was never used or that. You know, I always

1021
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: grew up on winning basketball teams and used to, you know,

1022
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: like I said, having somebody's back and playing for the

1023
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 1: betterment of the team. And then you get to that situation,

1024
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: it's like I'm trying to get mine and um, it's

1025
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: definitely definitely different. Yeah, and that that that's actually my

1026
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: thing about the G League is would be horrible. It's

1027
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: it's it's hard. It literally the final score almost doesn't

1028
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: matter to most of those guys, and and you know,

1029
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: and it's like no, literally no one wants to be there,

1030
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: whereas at least in the n b A sometimes the

1031
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: final score doesn't matter, but at least those guys want

1032
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: to be there, right. Their whole thing is they want

1033
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: to stick um. And I just think it reinforces so

1034
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: many the bad parts of a of a sport that

1035
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: we love and that we're taught a different way. As

1036
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: you pointed out, like you guys start out, I think

1037
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: it was like one and I'm looking right now, it's

1038
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: like one in six. Your your second win was you

1039
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: had twenty seven right you played? Do you remember who

1040
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: was against? It was like your first big blow up

1041
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: game where you played with statistically played really well. Do

1042
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: you know what that that was against? Uh? San Antonios?

1043
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: Honestly San Antonio Spurs. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I played

1044
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: a good at at their place. Yeah, I remember that game.

1045
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: We wanted over time. I believe um you did win

1046
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: it over time. Five. They have listen to who they have.

1047
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: They have Duncan Parker, Genoblely, Bruce Bowen. Uh. They did

1048
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: start for Brucio Alberto, but they brought Michael Finley out

1049
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: the bench, like that's a good team you went out

1050
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: and gave to Yeah. I actually see Bruce Bone every

1051
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: once in a while this charity event up in Idaho,

1052
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: and he always it's like, hey, do you remember that

1053
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: game you killed me? And then the next game we

1054
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: played you you had four points, Thanks Bruce, But yeah,

1055
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: I do remember that one. You did have four of

1056
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: You did have four points later on that month and

1057
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: you're one of ted. Wow, good memory, Bruce. Yeah, yeah, no,

1058
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: like because we beat him obviously at home, and they

1059
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: I think they just won the championship the year before

1060
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: and and so we played him at our place and

1061
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: they just can't you could tell, like you know, a

1062
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: certain NBA teams circle games, they circled that fucker and

1063
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: they came out and kicked the ship out of us,

1064
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: and um, Bruce didn let me get the ball, and

1065
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: it was it was a rough awakening for me the

1066
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: second time around. But yeah, I do remember that that

1067
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: San Antonio game is one a few good memories I've

1068
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: had of that season. But yeah, it was definitely fun

1069
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: to get a win on that floor. You know, get

1070
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: that type of team. My second year in preseason and

1071
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: I was closing out on the slowest motherfucker in the league,

1072
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: Luke Walton, who ended up being a really good friend

1073
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: of mine, would go to his way. I went to

1074
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: his wedding and stuff, you know, and I closed out

1075
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: with my left left leg. Um. I know what happened

1076
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: as I hurt my quad playing for Team USA going

1077
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: into my sophomore year, and it never healed right, and

1078
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: so I was always compensating on it, and that's what

1079
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: I think, you know, caused the a C L Y.

1080
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: I tore it during the preseason and we had a

1081
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: good team. We had a better team that year, and

1082
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: my role that second year was going to be coming

1083
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: off the bench and probably playing minutes would have been

1084
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: much better for me physically, emotionally, uh you know, mentally

1085
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: just to be able to kind of go against backups

1086
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: and then not play as heavy a minute it to

1087
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: not have as much of um, you know, a stress

1088
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: for me to score. And it was really devastating to

1089
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: have that injury because I really felt good. I was

1090
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: playing really good that preseason. Um, so it was it

1091
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: was a tough still the small and that was the

1092
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: first time in my life I've ever been injured at

1093
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: level what's it? What's it feel like? Because you can

1094
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: actually see the video online. It's your right leg right,

1095
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: your left leg kind of slid a little bit, and

1096
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: your right leg you plant and you go down. Did

1097
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: you feel a pop? Did you feel like what was

1098
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: what's the what's the memory of it? Yeah, it's a

1099
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: it's a pop um for sure, and then you know,

1100
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: your leg kind of tightens up and so once it pop,

1101
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. And then I hit the

1102
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: deck and then I couldn't you know, I couldn't bend

1103
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: my knee at all, and then it started to swell.

1104
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: And I think the shock of of knowing that you're

1105
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: going to be done for the season is part of it.

1106
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: Because I worked really hard to try to come back

1107
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: better and they really were helping me, like, hey, look,

1108
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna put you in this role. I think it'll

1109
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: be better for you. So I was I was feeling

1110
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: really good about my game. I was trying to have

1111
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: a nice season, come back after you know, a decent

1112
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: rookie season averaged eleven. But I didn't shoot the ball well,

1113
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: didn't play well. We were on a bad team. Um,

1114
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: so it was it was tough. It was really tough emotionally,

1115
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: and then I was all the way out in Charlotte

1116
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: by myself, and um, it just was it was a

1117
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: dark time in my life to be honest, basketball wise,

1118
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 1: just to have that and then don't have the opportunity

1119
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: to kind of redeem yourself and then, um, you know

1120
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: if you've all made fun of me for crying on

1121
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: the floor again, and it's this is just like it

1122
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: is a no win situation for me. I couldn't I

1123
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: couldn't get it, couldn't catch a break at that time.

1124
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: But that's life, and that's uh, that's sports, you know.

1125
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: So it's so cliche, but it really builds character and

1126
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: it really helps you formulate and figure out who you

1127
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: really are. So in hindsight, I'm thankful for some aspects

1128
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: of that because you know, you find out who your

1129
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: friends are, you find out who really has your back.

1130
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: It's it's it's interesting because you point out that the

1131
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: role that you really we're gonna evolve into was coming

1132
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: out the bench and just getting buckets, and that you're

1133
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: more comfortable with that, Whereas I think, and again, some

1134
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: of this is you're wiring, and I don't think a

1135
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: lot of it is being a coach's son. Also plenty

1136
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: of Gonzaga. Is you know, everybody likes to have their

1137
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: name called be a starter, right that goes even if

1138
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's just it's fascinating to me that

1139
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: did you at the time? Did you really want that

1140
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: role or was that something that you thought after you

1141
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: got hurt, like when they said like, hey man, we're

1142
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: gonna have you come out the bench. We think there's

1143
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: a better role for you. Were you Were you into

1144
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 1: it then? I I honestly was. I was into it

1145
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: because I understood the year before of just the the

1146
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: overall strain on my body, um for the A two games.

1147
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: I mean every rookie goes through that, but you you know,

1148
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: you add on the type one diabetes. I mean I

1149
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: was exhausted by game fifty. I mean I was. I

1150
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: was literally fucking exhausted that first season by then. So

1151
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: my thought process was, you know, I would play eighteen

1152
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: to twenty five minutes. You know, you know how it works.

1153
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: If you if you're playing well, you play twenty five.

1154
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: If you're not playing well, you probably play eighteen or

1155
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: sixteen or fifteen. But I would go against backups and

1156
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: I would be the second unit kind of score, they'd

1157
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: run place for me. And I really was, honestly, truthfully

1158
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: into it because I thought I would be able to

1159
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: kind of revamp my career and um, make a name

1160
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: for myself and just you know that injury just really

1161
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: obviously sideline that. So, uh, you're going to rehab, as

1162
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you're you're alone. Do you think you rehabbed

1163
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: well enough? Do you think like like if you go

1164
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: back and do it, would you would you change it?

1165
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 1: That's a very good question. Yeah, there would be things

1166
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: I would change absolutely, Yeah, I mean I would have

1167
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: I think everybody could could say this that you always

1168
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: when you're done, you're like, shoot, I could have worked harder.

1169
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, everybody has that regret and they always tell

1170
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: you don't have that regret, but um, you're going to

1171
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: have that regret. That you're gonna have that regret. It's

1172
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: it's it's almost given, you know. Um, with life and anything,

1173
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: especially in athletics, you think back, especially when you're done

1174
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: playing like fun Man, I could have lifted more weight,

1175
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: it's could have got more shots of all that stuff. Um,

1176
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: there's very few guys that probably are like that that

1177
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: don't have any regrets. But yeah, if I could go back,

1178
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 1: um truthfully would have rehabbed a little bit stronger, a

1179
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: little bit with a little more pizzazz. But I didn't

1180
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: really have any like guy didn't out there. I didn't

1181
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: have any you know, teammates that were good dudes that

1182
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: were like, um, veteran type of guys that really cared

1183
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: about anybody else. They weren't like bad people per se,

1184
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: but everybody was just for themselves. And so I was

1185
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: really out on island emotionally, um and and physically obviously.

1186
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: So it was tough, it really was. And um, you know,

1187
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,919
Speaker 1: if I could look back, I would have probably tried

1188
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: to fly home maybe and rehabbed around people that you know,

1189
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: you could feel that cared about you and that and

1190
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: that sort of thing and that that would have helped

1191
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: me emotionally and that usually when you're you know, feeling

1192
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: good emotionally, um, everything reversed back to your body, power

1193
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: of the mind and all that stuff. So yeah, a

1194
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: little bit regret with how that year went down, definitely.

1195
01:02:55,400 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: So uh, that year, you guys were Sam Vincent was

1196
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: the coach that year, right, Okay, so the next year

1197
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: you come back and Larry Brown's the coach, um, and

1198
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: my dad grew up with with Larry Brown. Like Larry

1199
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: was kind of like a legend in Long Beach, New York.

1200
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: And I actually played for his brother who was an

1201
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 1: NBA assistant for Yeah, herb who's you know who's Who's

1202
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: kind of like spitting image of him. So you you

1203
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: come back and now you're trying to re establish yourself

1204
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: with a new coach, like everything is different. What was

1205
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: that experience? Like, it was very difficult to be to

1206
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: be frank Um. His training camps were he said that

1207
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: training camps not a week long, it's a month long.

1208
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: It's the whole preseason. So actually I think it was

1209
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: Jason Richardson called the league on him because you know

1210
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: they have that you know a certain amount of time

1211
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: you can practice blah blah blah, you know, collectively bargained um,

1212
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: and we were going over that and so that was difficult.

1213
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: And then Larry was obviously he's a Hall of Famer

1214
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna sit here and discredited like his character,

1215
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: but you can be a kind of a um not

1216
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: cognizant of people's emotions or how they're feeling. That personally

1217
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: doesn't mean, you have to has to be a love

1218
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: fest when you walk into the gym. But as a coach,

1219
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: I feel like you have to have a sense of

1220
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: where guys at and you can be demanding without being demeaning.

1221
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: And there was many times where he would be very

1222
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: demeaning two guys, and we would practice and practice and practice,

1223
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: and he would stop every fucking play and talk, I

1224
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: mean every single one. So you'd be standing on the

1225
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: court for three hours sometimes. But you're like, funk we were.

1226
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: We barely went up and down, but I'm standing here.

1227
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: My knees are killing me, my back is killing me. Um.

1228
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys that have the same sentiment. Obviously,

1229
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: he's a Hall of Famer. I'm not gonna, you know,

1230
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: um say that he can't coach. But it was. It

1231
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: was definitely totally opposite of any type of coach that

1232
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: I've ever played for in my life. Um. Yeah, it's

1233
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: interesting because I'm sorry, Well, it's just it was. It

1234
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: was such an up and down year. I mean, I

1235
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: obviously got traded on the later half of that season,

1236
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: but I had some good games, um, you know, with

1237
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: some good stretches, and then I wouldn't play for two

1238
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: weeks and then you you would do things where he

1239
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell you that you're gonna play heavy minutes tonight.

1240
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: I know everybody says that you're supposed to be ready,

1241
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: which is absolutely true. But if you're a professional coach,

1242
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you just tell your player that, hey, man,

1243
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: I might go to you tonight, you know, before the game,

1244
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: three hours before the game, um and things of that nature.

1245
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: He just he just never did that. He was kind

1246
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: of common assholes sometimes, to be honest. No, no, I listen.

1247
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: I played against one of the ways I got into

1248
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: got in good at ESPN. I did a year of

1249
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: just doing games and local radio, and then I went

1250
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: and played in France. I came back in after a

1251
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: month in France, and I pitched them on, like, hey,

1252
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: I played against Darko twice when I was in Israel,

1253
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: when I was still a player, played against Petrice and

1254
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: Diao and Andrekiro Lincoln, They're all in this draft. And

1255
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, I actually Darko is gonna be

1256
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: a top five pick. And I actually I actually played

1257
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: against him, and I'm telling you I believe that Darkot

1258
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: And look, you know, people say like kind of like

1259
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: you where like Darko was you know, had to find

1260
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: himself and Darko, you know, there was a language barrier

1261
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 1: and like yeah, okay, but and I and I I'm

1262
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: with you, Like I think le Bround is a great coach,

1263
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: but he's not for everybody. There is a fit there.

1264
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: And had Darko gone and played for almost anybody else

1265
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: or played in this era of the NBA, he's that

1266
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: dude six eleven, could shoot, could post good block shots

1267
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: like he kicked. We had Monte Militia was our center

1268
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: when I was in Ranana on Israel. Monte is a

1269
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: good player at Lombie State was twenty five years old

1270
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: and we played Darko and Darko seventeen. He kicked Montes

1271
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: asked both times, We're like who the fund is that?

1272
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: Because like he's seventeen, Like no way, he played for

1273
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: Hemma from Braswick and we're like, no fucking ways seventeen,

1274
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 1: Like duty's seventeen. That was like a year before he

1275
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,439
Speaker 1: was going to the to the draft. Anyway, Like I'm

1276
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I understand that, and that the talking

1277
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: thing is like dude, enough, like let's let's go, let's

1278
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: let's hoop, and and you can't be You can't be

1279
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: a screamer in the NBA. And you know, obviously I

1280
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to see the other complete polar opposite

1281
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: when I got traded to l A with Phil. His

1282
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: coaching style was complete opposite and obviously everybody knows how

1283
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: successful he is. So it was tough man, Larry. Larry

1284
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: was an ass kicker. Um, he really was a defensive

1285
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: first type coach. So I definitely didn't fit in the

1286
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: halp mold. Um, so I was behind the A ball

1287
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: and then I was coming off an h L surgery.

1288
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: So it was you know, those years, um obviously allowed

1289
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: me to live the lifestyle that I live now, but

1290
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: it was also, you know, a dark time in my

1291
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 1: life to to instead of a joyous one. You know,

1292
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: and you look back and you're like, man, that should

1293
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: have been a really happy time in my life. Was

1294
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: playing in the n B A I should have been

1295
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, feeling good about myself. It was. It was

1296
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 1: a constant struggle to um, feel good about myself, to

1297
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: play well, to make friends, to feel fit in. I

1298
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: mean it was I was kind of a fish out

1299
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: of water. And um, it wasn't just Larry Brown, you know,

1300
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 1: but it didn't. It was kind of icing on the

1301
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: cake um when he came in, and I just really

1302
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: didn't fit in with that organization anymore. Go to l

1303
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: a um, who is? Who is? Who was the first?

1304
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: Was there any dude that was like took you as

1305
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: like kind of took you under your wing or reached

1306
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: out to you when you get to the Lakers? Luke

1307
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: Walton was just such a nice human being towards me

1308
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: and my family when I first got there, because I

1309
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: had my daughter was three, my firstborn was three when

1310
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: I got there, were two two or two or three

1311
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: years old, if my memory serves um. So she really

1312
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: reached out and was came in, come hang out, I'll

1313
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: show you around, I'll drive you to practice for the

1314
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: first you know, a couple of couple of days till

1315
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: my car arrives just really kind of broke the ice.

1316
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: And then the whole locker room there was just so different,

1317
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: and guys were so cool and and like welcoming, you

1318
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and just kind of um you

1319
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: could tell they generally cared about each other. So it

1320
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: was really a time that it was difficult not playing

1321
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: obviously because I was a competitor and I always felt

1322
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: good about my game there. Um, but I always felt

1323
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: content to a certain extent where I didn't have as

1324
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: much anger and frustration because these guys actually cared about

1325
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: each other. They tried to win, and so when I

1326
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: when I first got there, you could see that right away.

1327
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: And um, it definitely was a better experienced basketball wise

1328
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: and emotionally for me compared to Charlotte. For sure. UM,

1329
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: I remember, like, I look back, and you guys played

1330
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 1: against the Bobcats, but you didn't play, Like what's that

1331
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: like to sit there like I'm sure in that night,

1332
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: didn't you want to go to film and go like, dude,

1333
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: you gotta give me some minutes here. Yeah, I was

1334
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: pretty piste off and he Actually what I liked about

1335
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: Bill is he would he would apologize to you or

1336
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: tell you why you didn't play sometimes. And he did

1337
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,719
Speaker 1: that just because um, and a lot of pro coaches

1338
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: don't do that and they don't have to do it.

1339
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: But he just told me that night He's like, because

1340
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: I think we lost that game, He's like, hey, I

1341
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: couldn't find you a spot. Um, so that was difficult

1342
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: and then getting just you know, um, hearing it from

1343
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: the fans on the bench. It was. It was it

1344
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: was tough to go back there, um because you know,

1345
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: there was so much hype for me obviously where I

1346
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: was drafted, and rightfully so. Um, I was supposed to

1347
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: be a better player for the first Charlotte UM, so

1348
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: not living up to that was was definitely difficult. But

1349
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,799
Speaker 1: at the same time, there were some cards that didn't

1350
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 1: didn't fall my way certain situations, So it was a

1351
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: combination of both. But yeah, it was. It was tough

1352
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: because I wanted to revamp my career. Obviously, I wanted

1353
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: to stay in the NBA. I wanted to be a

1354
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: part of a team, even if I was playing five

1355
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: ten minutes a night. I wanted to be able to

1356
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: openly contribute besides practice time. But I just just never

1357
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: had that opportunity really because we were good. I mean,

1358
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: the team went to the final of the year before

1359
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: I got there, and then the year I got traded,

1360
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: we win, and then we went again. Um, So this

1361
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: team was already pretty much pre built, and Mitch cup

1362
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: Check just kind of took a flyer on me, and

1363
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 1: they really wanted Shannon Brown and really worked out for

1364
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: the team also. Um, Shannon had a good you know, too,

1365
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 1: three years there, so it was definitely a roller coaster

1366
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: ride of um, you know what, what what is it?

1367
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: What is it like to win a championship but to

1368
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: not play out my my personal experiences. So I my

1369
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: first year, we played in Russia. I play in Russia,

1370
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: and we were just put together to win the championship

1371
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: and we did. We all lost one game the whole

1372
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: time I was there, and um, yeah, And the weird

1373
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: thing about Russia was when we would get when we

1374
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: would get a lead, they would put all the Russian

1375
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: dudes in and they wanted their guys to win. And

1376
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: I was and I was playing as an American that year,

1377
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: and it was super weird. We're playing on never Forgil,

1378
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: playing Unix Kazan for a championship. It's like a best

1379
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: of three series and I think we want to I

1380
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: or maybe it was the best of five. We wont

1381
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: won three. Oh, I don't remember. I just remember that

1382
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: I was They would press. I was brought in to

1383
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,719
Speaker 1: break the press. They would press, I break the press.

1384
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: We get a lead and I would set out and

1385
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: I just remember winning a championship and because I had

1386
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 1: had only been on the team like half to three

1387
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: quarters of the year. I didn't do training camp with him.

1388
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: Um obviously wasn't Russian. There wasn't And because I didn't

1389
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: play major minutes. Was my first year out of college.

1390
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: Like I felt, it was like, yeah, I won a

1391
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: championship and I had to have a buddy whose name

1392
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: is Joe Smith, so josaph he's a relief pitcher for

1393
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: the Astros, and he won a World Series with the

1394
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,720
Speaker 1: Cubs and he was with the Indians in the playoffs

1395
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 1: I think last year. And I asked him and like,

1396
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's not the podcast. Who knows who's

1397
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: gonna pick it up? But I was like, which was better?

1398
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: And he's like, you fucking kid me. I didn't pitch

1399
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: for the Cubs in the playoffs, like he didn't fuck

1400
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: Joe Madden didn't use me like I have a ring,

1401
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: but I got't win a championship. It was so much better,

1402
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: you know. He came up kind of with the Indians.

1403
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: That's where he made him And to to pitch for

1404
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: the Indians, even to lose, was better than to play,

1405
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: to not play and to win. What we you're part

1406
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: two championship teams, you have two championship brings. That we

1407
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: can ever take that from me. You You got a chance

1408
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 1: to practice against Kobe Bryant on a daily basis and

1409
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: play for Phil Jackson. But what's what's it like now

1410
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: to have one two championships that you didn't get to

1411
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: contribute to in the playoffs. Yeah, it's it's I think

1412
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: you put it best. It's it's awkward because do you

1413
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 1: know you contributed to the team, but you can't really

1414
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: that to people, and if you do, you sound like

1415
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: you're reaching and it sounds like a look at the

1416
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: type of things. So you kind of have to sit

1417
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: there and take the abuse, um with no chance to

1418
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: defend yourself. So that was that part was difficult, Um.

1419
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: And it was difficult just not getting a chance to

1420
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: to go. I mean, I felt really good about my

1421
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: game in l a UM. I thought the second year.

1422
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 1: I thought the second year you would play more. The

1423
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: second year was a year after the knee injury. I

1424
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: remember watching you play in the preseason and watching you

1425
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: move around, and I was like, dude, in the triangle,

1426
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: you gotta be able to play multiple positions, make shots

1427
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: with limited dribbles. Uh, you know you were long enough

1428
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 1: to defend multiple positions. I was you know that was

1429
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: actually surprised. The second year was surprising to me. Yeah.

1430
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: I again, I mean I played summer leave the year before,

1431
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 1: and I know that's kind of a it can be

1432
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: a little bit of fools gold. But I averaged twenty

1433
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: six in that system and played really well going into

1434
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: that second year, and I finally, you know, I felt

1435
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: good about my game again. I felt like, hey, I

1436
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: can probably squeeze ten minutes out of this rotation, maybe

1437
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,719
Speaker 1: fifteen if I start playing well. And it just didn't happen.

1438
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: And you know, so then you get to the playoffs,

1439
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 1: and I mean we had thirteen guys, so I'm literally

1440
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 1: the only guy that has to sit out. So then

1441
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's it's you know, broadcasted ten

1442
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: times over. And then I'd get, you know, consistently mocked.

1443
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it was tough. I was lucky that I

1444
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: had good teammates that understood and always stuck up for

1445
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 1: me as well, which I was always appreciated to. You know,

1446
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 1: in l A. That's one thing I'll say about that organization,

1447
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 1: as they treat people the right way for the most part.

1448
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 1: You know, my experience was great there. I never felt

1449
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: like a pride. They never made me feel any less

1450
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 1: than anybody else if because I wasn't playing major minutes,

1451
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: Um do they like I was? I was in summer

1452
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: league for them. I went to to Veterans minicamp and

1453
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: never and you know, like Mike Pemberthy beat me out

1454
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 1: one year and then um, Joe Crispin beat me out

1455
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 1: and in summer league whatever to to to get to

1456
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: VET camp and Joe had both made the team and um,

1457
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: but it was the same thing, like even for me,

1458
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: like at least you were a stud. I wasn't, and

1459
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: they were. That's the thing about that organization was they

1460
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: were just like, hey, you know, you want to get

1461
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 1: a massage, get a massage, you want to come in

1462
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,599
Speaker 1: and you know, work out like whatever you're if you're

1463
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 1: if you're wearing a Laker's jersey, you're your your a Laker. Okay,

1464
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: So give me, give me your best Kobe Bryant story.

1465
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: Who cool? Cool? I gotta make sure I'm bilker and

1466
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: a little bits um why you just crushed Larry Brown? Why?

1467
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: I okay? So everybody knows that the year that he

1468
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: hurt his finger, right, Um, you know the second year,

1469
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 1: remember he broke like at the top of his index

1470
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: finger on his right hand. And Kobe was the type

1471
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: of guy that I obviously he was motivated, but he

1472
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: got kind of he would get bored with because he

1473
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: was so good. But you know, you heard stories about

1474
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: all the great players that would be like, what's this

1475
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,919
Speaker 1: you know, what's the highest points in this building? Or hey,

1476
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking play you know, three quarters hard and

1477
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, just make ship up to kind of

1478
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: motivate themselves right with season games, and you know, on

1479
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: the bus, we would always look at you know, at

1480
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 1: the end of the games, they give you all the

1481
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: box scores from around the league, and we would always

1482
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: be like, man, fun, did you see Lebron's line tonight?

1483
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: Just to kind of like piss them off a little

1484
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: bit and kind of motivate them, you know. And so

1485
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: we got into the discussion one night about who has

1486
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: the best left hand, and Kope is like, I have

1487
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: the best fucking left hand the league. We're like, dude,

1488
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: you don't even fucking shoot left hand, Like what did

1489
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 1: you do about he goes right every time? Yeah, I

1490
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: were like, everybody can dribble left handed, you know, it's

1491
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: the NBA, Like, what do you like You're not a

1492
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: part of his argument because he always said he was

1493
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: the best at everything, even jokingly, but he was just

1494
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 1: play Kobe, you wanna play cards? Like no, you guys

1495
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: fucking suck too much, like b knows tuck all right, whatever,

1496
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: And we're playing that game or you're in his finger

1497
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: and you know it's a meaningless fucking um you know,

1498
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:31,680
Speaker 1: regular season game, and he heard the singer like in

1499
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 1: the first quarter, plays the rest of the game with

1500
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: his left hand, scores like eighteen. I mean, he's playing

1501
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: literally with one hand, and he checks out and he

1502
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 1: comes sits right next to me. And this is like

1503
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 1: a month after we had this conversation on the bus

1504
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 1: and he turns and looks to me. He goes, hey,

1505
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: you still think I don't have the best fucking left

1506
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: hand in the league. And I'm like, guys, fucking nuts man,

1507
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: like absolutely crazy. And then I mean there's plenty of

1508
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: other I mean jabs uh. I mean one time I

1509
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 1: was talking trash to him and everybody was gassing me

1510
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,759
Speaker 1: up because I you know, I had a good practice

1511
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: against him, or somewhere makes some made some jumpers against him,

1512
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: and somebody was gassing me up. So I was just like, yeah, man,

1513
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: how'd you like that? Fade away? And he goes every

1514
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 1: time you are guarding me and I catched the ball,

1515
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 1: there's a giant s os on your fucking backs shut,

1516
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, and he just just started clown and me

1517
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: and it was you know, we were we were. That's

1518
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 1: one of it was one of the funnest things about

1519
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 1: that team at the locker room. And I'm sure you've

1520
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: experienced it as well as when you can rib your

1521
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: your your buddies and it never gets personal, but it

1522
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: gets very close to the line. That's how it always was.

1523
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: So um yeah, man, he was. He was such a

1524
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: competitor at all. This cliche stuff about him are so true.

1525
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: Hardest worker I've ever seen, toughest motherfucker I've ever seen.

1526
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to win more than anybody else. Demanding um,

1527
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: but I experienced the nice Kobe, you know what I mean.

1528
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,680
Speaker 1: So I've heard, you know, some other stories about him

1529
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: kind of you know, really killing guys. I mean, I've

1530
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 1: heard the story about who was the guy played at

1531
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 1: Florida State that played for them, Von was a von Wafer.

1532
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 1: I think he got him traded. Um, was the story

1533
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: I always heard based off of like a three on

1534
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: three game and Von Wafer was talking trash to him

1535
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, funk, I'll just get you traded,

1536
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: and like told him, like, I'll get you traded, and

1537
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: I got him traded, and so, like, there was some

1538
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 1: some interesting things he said, um that were funny because

1539
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: he likes um. You know, he's a good person. You know,

1540
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: he does a lot for the community, and he cares

1541
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: about people. But I think he likes being an asshole

1542
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 1: at times too, just to funk with people, because he's

1543
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 1: a thinker, you know what I mean. And so there

1544
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: were some times where he would just he would funk

1545
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: with like the security guys that have to be around

1546
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 1: him all the time and just you know, kind of

1547
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 1: be an asshole to him. And you'd sit there and

1548
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 1: kind of smirk because, like, dude, fun are you doing? Man?

1549
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 1: Like this poor guy's sucking running all over the hotel

1550
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 1: to go grab your fucking phone. Why can't you just

1551
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 1: put it in your pocket, you know? Or something like that.

1552
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 1: But I had, really I had lucky to be with him.

1553
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 1: He really helped me get through the season, and it

1554
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: was always cool with me and my family always. I mean,

1555
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: so Kobe Bryant has a as a you know, place

1556
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 1: in my heart as just a competitor and and somebody

1557
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: that Um could have just let me be off to

1558
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 1: the side, but he always made sure that I felt

1559
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: part of the team, and I was, you know, always

1560
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:39,720
Speaker 1: appreciated that UM. Game seven NBA Finals busting Celtics, right,

1561
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: and then your last game was the last game is

1562
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 1: a laker. I think, Um, what do you remember? What

1563
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 1: was that experience? Like? I mean, because that was an

1564
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: absolute war. I felt like ron our test toughness won

1565
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: that game, posting up getting some buckets. He had a

1566
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 1: bunch of steels, like five steals. But again I didn't.

1567
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. I mean, I wasn't in the locker room.

1568
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: Was a courtside you were. What do you remember about

1569
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: Game seven against the Celtics. I think it was I

1570
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,719
Speaker 1: mean a literal street brawl. I mean, the rest didn't

1571
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: call anything, as they shouldn't, Um, But I think you're right.

1572
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 1: I think ron Um brought us in an extra dynamic

1573
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 1: of toughness that whole season helped us push through. It

1574
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: helped Pow, it helped Lamar obviously, and I remember Um,

1575
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,240
Speaker 1: just how kind of lucky we got in the sense

1576
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: that because Kobe played bad statistically that game. Um, I

1577
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: think he was six, but you guys did, by the way,

1578
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 1: you did shoot thirty seven free throws thirty seven, but

1579
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:42,640
Speaker 1: thirty seven, but it was it was it was a

1580
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 1: pure six. Probably. Yeah, he couldn't make a shot. I

1581
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: couldn't make a shot exactly, and he was, you know,

1582
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: pressing the issue and forcing it in. You know, one

1583
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: of our things, especially during the season, as of all

1584
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: of our bench guys fell on the sideline, like not

1585
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,760
Speaker 1: directly to him, but we're like, fucking throw the ball

1586
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: to pal. Just throw it to him. He's gonna make

1587
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,559
Speaker 1: the right decision. He's a really good player. Blah blah box.

1588
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: When Kobe started to get going, obviously he's a great score,

1589
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 1: but sometimes he would, you know, he would sucking, hey man,

1590
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 1: you gotta swing the basketball one time, like just pass it.

1591
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: You know, we know you can score, we know your competitor.

1592
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: And I think he was kind of in that mindset,

1593
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: was just pressing so much. But I think Ron, You're

1594
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 1: exactly right, really kind of stabilized us inside. And then

1595
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: he obviously made that Big Three League. Um, and that

1596
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 1: was such an emotional game for the whole team because

1597
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: there was so much pressure on that team to obviously

1598
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: repee being the Lakers and then going against Boston and

1599
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: losing to him this season, two seasons before the Orlando Championship.

1600
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: Um So, I remember guys being really happy, obviously in

1601
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: the locker room, but being just more of like, fuck,

1602
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: it's finally over. Man, I can fucking think, you know

1603
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: what I mean, I can relax, I can be myself

1604
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: because it was so stressful for a lot of those

1605
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 1: guys to go out there and win. Um buying him?

1606
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:08,600
Speaker 1: Was he was? He just? Was it his knees? Was

1607
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: he too goofy? Yeah? I think it's a little bit

1608
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 1: of both. He was a great kid, um you know,

1609
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: I think a little bit immature for the time obviously. Um.

1610
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 1: I mean he came in the league at seventeen. Uh

1611
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: can you imagine being seventeen in Los Angeles as part

1612
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 1: of the like and with a ship ton of money,

1613
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, and coming from nothing. Um So, Andrew always

1614
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: worked out and always was on the training table. So

1615
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: when people would be upset about his knees, I used

1616
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 1: to bother me as a teammate and as a friend.

1617
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, okay, man, that's three pounds. He really can't

1618
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,760
Speaker 1: help it. You know, his knees naturally bowed in, So

1619
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:59,600
Speaker 1: he obviously had rotten luck there. But I think some

1620
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 1: of the stuff off the court, you know, with all

1621
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 1: the cars and stuff like that, was a kind of

1622
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: off putting to people. And I could kind of understand why,

1623
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: because I mean this this dude fucking spent I mean

1624
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: I had to spend like ten million on cars. I'm

1625
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 1: not even fucking kidding. There are five to ten million dollars.

1626
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,559
Speaker 1: I mean it was ferrari h. He had a lambo,

1627
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: he had two charters. I mean, he got sued by

1628
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 1: his Remember he got sued by like his neighbor because

1629
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: he was parking all of his cars out front of

1630
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: his house and that, you know, I'm sure he was

1631
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 1: in Brentwood or somewhere. Um, So yeah, I just I

1632
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: always felt bad for him because I think he was

1633
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:43,720
Speaker 1: in too early, and I don't think he had the

1634
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 1: maturity level and I don't think he had the right

1635
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: people to say no around him. That was the biggest

1636
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: issue for me, because it's easy to just to bring

1637
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,880
Speaker 1: your mother along or bring somebody that's kind of your caretaker.

1638
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: But if they don't say no to you, then it's

1639
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:03,719
Speaker 1: basically not like they're not even there. Um. And so

1640
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: there was the times where I would think, man like,

1641
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 1: how is this guy? You know, I don't know his

1642
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 1: financial situation. I'm not trying to throw somebody out of

1643
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: the bus, but I'm just thinking, like it's not to

1644
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 1: man like, how are you better put put put five

1645
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 1: million away and just so you can't touch until your fifty,

1646
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: please God, or something like that, because he was just

1647
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: spending so much money on cars and stupid ship because

1648
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: he was so young. And then you were like, dude,

1649
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 1: your your knees could give out tomorrow, um and right police, yeah,

1650
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 1: and they and they did. And so I hope he's well.

1651
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:43,519
Speaker 1: He's a good person, um, A good dude, good heart,

1652
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, good teammate, all the all the stuff. It

1653
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: just I think he was a little bit too immature.

1654
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: And like I said, you gotta have people say no

1655
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 1: to you. You gotta have your financial people gotta tell

1656
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, or you gotta be not smart enough or

1657
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: just have enough nuts to tell yourself like, all right,

1658
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 1: everybody knows I'm fun and rich. I don't have to

1659
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: keep showing it. You know, everybody knows we are. So

1660
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 1: there's by one car and be fine with that and

1661
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:10,479
Speaker 1: be happy and we content with that. So okay, I

1662
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 1: got I gotta cut more here. Um. I had drinks

1663
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:18,560
Speaker 1: with Kobe and his one of his things he champions

1664
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: about himself, as you know, he does think he's the

1665
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 1: greatest ever and is He's like, look before pau Gasol

1666
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 1: play with me, everybody thought pau Gasol was a pussy.

1667
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: He's like, and we won two championships with Palla Gasol,

1668
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:36,520
Speaker 1: and you can't be a pussy and win a championship.

1669
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: What what was your experience of of Pal playing with him?

1670
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 1: His toughness, his intelligence, Like, what's what's he really like?

1671
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 1: How was the most fundamental um uh, you know, most

1672
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: fundamental and most precise player I've ever played with. Obviously

1673
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: Kobe was the best, but how was I mean he

1674
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: does ship that they told you in like fifth grade,

1675
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 1: like shin it to the rim every single time. Like

1676
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 1: he was so skilled. Um that he obviously elevated the

1677
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:15,759
Speaker 1: Lakers to those championships. And he was not a pussy.

1678
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 1: He was just you know, he's a Spaniard. I mean,

1679
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 1: there is a different culture. Um, you know, just because

1680
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 1: he liked wine and going to the opera, it doesn't

1681
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 1: mean he was soft. And I think Kobe really helped

1682
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: him through that that phase, and he really, uh, you know,

1683
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 1: challenged himself because he did get his ass kicked in

1684
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,640
Speaker 1: that finals against Kevin Garnett and then redeemed himself for

1685
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 1: those two championships because he had to go against DeWitt

1686
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 1: Howard and then obviously Kevin Garnett um later and that's

1687
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: in that second championship run. So how was one of

1688
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 1: the you know, best all all around players I've ever

1689
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 1: played with easily, Um, soft touch, He could shoot fifteen

1690
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: foot left hand, running hooks, could pass, he could shoot

1691
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:04,680
Speaker 1: the three. And I think if he played like if

1692
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: he took his prime now, he would be almost just

1693
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:09,439
Speaker 1: as good or even better, because I think he could

1694
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,599
Speaker 1: stretch the floor a little bit more. But you know,

1695
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: it was more back to the basket a little bit.

1696
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,600
Speaker 1: Even then when I was playing, there was still a

1697
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 1: post aspect of the game. So unbelievable player, unbelievable teammate.

1698
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: Good dude, Um, not a pussy, you know, Um, just

1699
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 1: lucky to play with him. I was always inn off,

1700
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: just how skilled he was and honestly unbelievable. Was your

1701
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: heart you went, you went and played in Belgrade, you

1702
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't played best youtash in Turkey? Was your heart in it? Right?

1703
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:42,880
Speaker 1: That's a hard thing to go from being, you know,

1704
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 1: the golden child of college basketball, top three pick and

1705
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: then yeah, I'm sure you wanted to play, but you're

1706
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 1: You're with the Lakers, right facility and the Staples and

1707
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: winning a championship. Now you're No matter how good, how

1708
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 1: alight level it is in Europe, it's just different. There's

1709
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 1: still a hook in the locker room, right, dude smoking

1710
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: in the locker room after games in it. Uh, it's

1711
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 1: a very good question. I think it was more so

1712
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 1: in Turkey because my family was there. Um, Belgrade was

1713
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:18,120
Speaker 1: tough because I played for Passage, who was legendary, who

1714
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:21,840
Speaker 1: won that I think Feeble World Cup or the championships.

1715
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 1: So he was an established legend. And this this fucking guy,

1716
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 1: we would go two of days, every single fucking day

1717
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 1: and didn't matter. And I explained to him, hey, look man,

1718
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not dogging you, but I needed you know,

1719
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm Type one diabetic, Like I need rest. I just

1720
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 1: do and if you give me rest, I guarantee I

1721
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 1: can go and give you. You know how Europe is,

1722
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: you give you eighteen a night, that's like scoring thirty

1723
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:46,759
Speaker 1: over there, you know what I mean. It's a different,

1724
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:51,320
Speaker 1: different game. Um, So that was that was difficult. What

1725
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: I was appreciated of the when I went over there,

1726
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 1: I was experiencing the culture and understanding kind of how

1727
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: the world works. Because my first when I first landed there,

1728
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: my my, you know, guy who showed me around or whatever,

1729
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 1: my host, he drives me to the center of Belgrade

1730
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 1: and there's that bombed out building. Um, I said, well,

1731
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 1: what's that standing up? Because you don't remember that, and

1732
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,639
Speaker 1: he goes, that was you know Bill claim nine, Yeah,

1733
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 1: slowing on Molossovitch. Yeah. And so that really takes it,

1734
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 1: you know, puts you in perspective of you know, life

1735
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:30,599
Speaker 1: and and things of that nature. So I was really

1736
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: thankful looking back what those experiences gave to me, especially

1737
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 1: um you know, obviously like I said, Belgrade, but then

1738
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 1: also go into Istanbul experience in Muslim country, you know,

1739
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 1: you get the idea that not you know, kind of

1740
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:54,639
Speaker 1: how the media portrayed Islam wasn't very good at that

1741
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 1: time period and so experiencing that culture and understanding that

1742
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 1: most of the people are clearly like us, with a

1743
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:06,680
Speaker 1: few minor changes in diet and how they pray. Um,

1744
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 1: it really helped me as a man, as a person

1745
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 1: and see the world differently. And I know that sounds

1746
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 1: really cliche, but that's the one experiences that I was

1747
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,679
Speaker 1: thankful for to kind of hit rock bottom, uh per se,

1748
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 1: miss my family, miss United States, miss everything that comes

1749
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 1: along with this this country, and be able to kind

1750
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 1: of find myself basketball white because I played well in

1751
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: both stops, got paid well, had some great experiences, great friends.

1752
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: But at first, to be honest, dug, it was it

1753
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 1: was tough. I mean I almost just retired after I

1754
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: got didn't get picked up um that summer. I was

1755
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:48,800
Speaker 1: almost going to say, you know, I made enough money,

1756
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, I'm just gonna kinda hang it up.

1757
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:55,120
Speaker 1: But that opportunity arose and it helped me at least,

1758
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: you get some summer league opportunities after that. I'd last thing,

1759
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 1: A couple of last things. Um, you did summer league

1760
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 1: with the Nets, you're signed by the Blazers, didn't didn't

1761
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 1: play another NBA game, when when you when you walked away,

1762
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:13,400
Speaker 1: like now we started by talking about like you're good now.

1763
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 1: When you walked away, were you what was your mental

1764
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 1: state in terms did you just want to get back

1765
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:20,160
Speaker 1: and play one more game? Did you feel like you

1766
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 1: had a lot more basketball in you? Were you just

1767
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,639
Speaker 1: done because your body was done? What was your mental

1768
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 1: state when you walked away? Dave's anger, frustration, um uh,

1769
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, regret, all the all the negative emotions were there,

1770
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 1: and it was really tough at at times. I mean

1771
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 1: I I honestly, Doug, I didn't watch a basketball game

1772
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 1: probably for a year after I retired when I was

1773
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:53,200
Speaker 1: with Portland's like any any basketball like it would come

1774
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 1: on and I would change it. And this is you know,

1775
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,719
Speaker 1: I grew up in a basketball household, and that part

1776
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:02,400
Speaker 1: was was definitely odd for me. What what really kind

1777
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,599
Speaker 1: of helped the I guess the healing process for me

1778
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 1: emotionally was I was lucky enough to to be able

1779
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: to help out the high school I coached at with

1780
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,560
Speaker 1: a coach that I played for, and he just invited me.

1781
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: He's like, hey man, just come help these kids out,

1782
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: or just show up and do whatever you want. And

1783
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 1: that kind of helped bring back, you know, a little

1784
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:24,839
Speaker 1: bit of a joy. But it was tough, I mean honestly,

1785
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: because it was you know, everybody looks at you as

1786
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: a failure instantly, and you know, people have said things

1787
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 1: about me and about my character and stuff like I'm

1788
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,320
Speaker 1: some Parria or some bad dude. I've never been in

1789
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: trouble in my life. I've never heard anybody. I've never

1790
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 1: done any of those things. Maybe I'm a little bit

1791
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 1: quote unquote odd, but I'd rather be odd than just

1792
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:52,640
Speaker 1: fucking square normal. Um. So it was tough, It really was.

1793
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 1: It was a dark dark place in my in my

1794
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: in my life because I went through a relationship change,

1795
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: basically got divorced even I wasn't married at two kids.

1796
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 1: Um so there was some There was some dark times. Um.

1797
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 1: And then the basketball was kind of the cognizant or

1798
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 1: the reason for those dark times. But I was lucky

1799
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 1: enough to be able to, like I said, to help coach,

1800
01:35:16,160 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 1: and then Gonzega allowed me to go back to school

1801
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 1: and help coach there, and then I slowly started to

1802
01:35:22,200 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 1: fall in love with the game again. And then you know,

1803
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: now obviously I called games for Learfield, and then my

1804
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 1: daughter plays and so I get the joy my cup

1805
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 1: gets is filled again with basketball, which makes me feel

1806
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:38,120
Speaker 1: good obviously because it's it's it's a sport that I've

1807
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:41,639
Speaker 1: always loved and I always will love, and it's brought

1808
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 1: me two places around the world. I've met people I've

1809
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: never met before, all the stuff that comes along with

1810
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:51,959
Speaker 1: being a professional athlete. Um, it's because of basketball, obviously.

1811
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:56,799
Speaker 1: So uh, it was tough, though you're I'm sure you've

1812
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: dealt with it a little bit. I'll give you. I'll

1813
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:00,160
Speaker 1: give you, I'll give you, I'll give mine on on

1814
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,240
Speaker 1: a lesser level. Right, Like, So, I was a high

1815
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 1: school American, I go to a Notre Dame. I get

1816
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 1: in trouble, I sit out a year. I go to

1817
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 1: Oaklahama State, but I I can't watch myself played Oklham

1818
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 1: State because I I got to where no one thought

1819
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:13,640
Speaker 1: I could shoot. I didn't think I could shoot, and

1820
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: so guys wouldn't guard me. So I still like part

1821
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 1: of me is like, hey, I must have been really

1822
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:19,400
Speaker 1: fucking good to not be able to shoot at all

1823
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 1: and the team couldn't function without me on the court.

1824
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:24,839
Speaker 1: But that's hard to relate to somebody who doesn't understand

1825
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 1: the sport or wasn't there right um, And so when

1826
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 1: I finished playing, like I knew I could play in

1827
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: the NBA. I just I knew it because I kind

1828
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: of broken through those some of those mental things when

1829
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: I was playing overseas. But I went when I was

1830
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:39,479
Speaker 1: first to the ESPN, like, I didn't pick up a

1831
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:41,479
Speaker 1: ball for about a year, year and a half. They

1832
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 1: all pick up, play, pick up all whatever. Like I

1833
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: just I didn't like it. I covered it, and I

1834
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 1: like covering it, but I just I felt like it

1835
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 1: was potential that I did not truly tap into. It's

1836
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 1: it's a really hard it's a really hard experience. It's

1837
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:55,880
Speaker 1: like you said, like you go back and you thought

1838
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:57,679
Speaker 1: you worked hard. You're like damn, when I was in college,

1839
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 1: Like I'd hang out my girl and became my wife. Like, man,

1840
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 1: I should have just lived in the gym and fixed

1841
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,559
Speaker 1: my jump shot. I'd i'd be in the NBA. But

1842
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 1: all that path takes you to where you are now,

1843
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 1: which may actually be a better place than had you

1844
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 1: been an NBA player and for me, or had you

1845
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 1: been an NBA star for you, you might not have

1846
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: been in the in the mental state where you appreciate

1847
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 1: everything is fair, absolutely right. You know, it's tough times

1848
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 1: create character in in you know all the cliche cliche

1849
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:28,439
Speaker 1: stuff that goes with it, but it really is true.

1850
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 1: You find out who your friends are, you find out

1851
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 1: you know what you're true. Um, you know what really

1852
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:39,719
Speaker 1: makes you happy because you know, when you're a star

1853
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:43,120
Speaker 1: in callege, excuse me, in college and in the n

1854
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 1: b A, you know, it's usually all the plastic stuff

1855
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:50,040
Speaker 1: that that usually matters. And when that stuff is taken

1856
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 1: away and you're quote unquote normal, I guess which is

1857
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:59,439
Speaker 1: I don't like using that term. Yeah, you know what

1858
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's it can be really difficult, um

1859
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 1: to put your life in perspective in a positive way,

1860
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: to be able to um tell yourself like, hey, it's

1861
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 1: okay that you're not you know, superstar. You didn't make

1862
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 1: Connor million dollars. You still have these life experiences, you

1863
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:27,040
Speaker 1: still have these connections. Um, you know from in my perspective,

1864
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 1: I get a call games for Gonzega, forget forget all that.

1865
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: Let me give you my perspective. Okay, you're a coach's

1866
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 1: kid from nowhere Washington. You became the biggest star in

1867
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:41,839
Speaker 1: college basketball. You lead the country in scoring, your National

1868
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:43,800
Speaker 1: Player of the Year, and you're the number three pick

1869
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 1: of the NBA draft. Okay, there are five hundred and

1870
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 1: fifty high school basketball players every year, there's you were.

1871
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 1: You were the third pick of an NBA draft. Right

1872
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,720
Speaker 1: there you go. You won, You won. Every everything else

1873
01:38:57,800 --> 01:39:01,639
Speaker 1: is icing on the cake. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah,

1874
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was difficult at times to

1875
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:09,680
Speaker 1: really believe that message and in myself. Um, But you know,

1876
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: having kids really put life in perspective to you. I

1877
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,599
Speaker 1: don't want to get too sad. You know, we're supposed

1878
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:19,280
Speaker 1: to be talking basketball, but honestly, just having kids and

1879
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 1: it gives you a purpose, It gives you a different direction.

1880
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,760
Speaker 1: It gives you a reason to get yourself out of

1881
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,760
Speaker 1: that mental state and be healthy and be positive and

1882
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 1: be happy. And then once they start getting older, you

1883
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 1: get to share the joy of what this sport brought

1884
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 1: to be. Um. So it was definitely a four years,

1885
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:43,839
Speaker 1: five years of of a lot of pain, in anglish

1886
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:46,800
Speaker 1: and frustration, but there was also a lot of good

1887
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 1: memories as well. Adam, I can't tell you how much

1888
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:52,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate you joining me, sharing with me where you

1889
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 1: are now. I can't wait till I like I want

1890
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: to do this again and not talk about you and

1891
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 1: just talk about we'll pick up basketball and life in general.

1892
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:02,040
Speaker 1: Great to know you're in a good place and look

1893
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 1: forward to talking hoops with you in the future. All right,

1894
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:06,920
Speaker 1: Doug again, man, I'm sure you have me on give

1895
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 1: me the opportunity as well. Be sure to catch live

1896
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: editions of The Doug dot Leap Show weekdays in noon

1897
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,879
Speaker 1: eastern three pm Pacific. Hey, make thanks to Adam Morrison

1898
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:19,880
Speaker 1: and thank you for listening. Remember listening to The Doug

1899
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 1: Gotlieb Show weekdays three to six eastern twelve three Pacific.

1900
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:26,000
Speaker 1: Make sure you tell a friend or tweet out a

1901
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:29,960
Speaker 1: friend or share this with a friend so they can download, subscribe,

1902
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,400
Speaker 1: and rate our podcast. Make sure you rate. It's better

1903
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 1: for me when you rate us. It's also better for

1904
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 1: me when you get friends to subscribe to us. And

1905
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate you listening. Hopefully you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

1906
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 1: This is all ball