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Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and I'm so excited for this episode because

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Speaker 1: it's my friend Stephen Hyde in his personal super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: He's been preparing for this one for twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Today we are diving into Oasis versus Blur, the battle

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Speaker 1: of brit Pop. Stephen has extremely strong feelings on this,

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Speaker 1: as it will soon become apparent. Yes, when I wrote

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Speaker 1: my book about music rivalries, Your favorite Band is Killing

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Speaker 1: Me a few years ago, I wrote the first chapter

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Speaker 1: on this rivalry because it was one of the first

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Speaker 1: rivalries that I personally ever cared about. It's what taught

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Speaker 1: me how to hate Jordan's. I have to say that

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Speaker 1: it's awfully hard to let go of how I felt

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Speaker 1: when I was sixteen years old, which is that Asis

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Speaker 1: is great and brilliant and one of the best bands

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Speaker 1: ever and Blur sucks really really hard. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: when you were sixteen, I would have been I think

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Speaker 1: about six I knew nothing about the famous Oasis versus

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Speaker 1: Blur chart face off that was taking place at that time.

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Speaker 1: To me, the winner was abundantly clear. Oasis was the

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Speaker 1: wonder wall band. You know everybody that the song was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: If I'd heard of Blur at all at that time,

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Speaker 1: it would have been as like a tween watching MTV

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Speaker 1: two and seeing the video for song of A two

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Speaker 1: or something, which to me sounded like something like Blink

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Speaker 1: two or Green Day. You know. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: that Blur were brit pop forefathers, probably until their best

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Speaker 1: of album came out in two thousand I think, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of like the Louder than Bombs for my

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Speaker 1: age demo, Like that was what all the cool record

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Speaker 1: stores that are in town had like posters of. But

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Speaker 1: even then I had no knowledge of this blood feud

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Speaker 1: with Oasis until learning more about the history of brit pop,

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Speaker 1: and to me, without knowing the British cultural implications, they

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Speaker 1: seemed to come from completely different musical universe. Is Oasis

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Speaker 1: and Blur? Yeah, this is like one of those episodes

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Speaker 1: where I feel like the old man pulling up his

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Speaker 1: rocking chair and explaining to the young people would it

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Speaker 1: felt like to live in a war? Because you can

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Speaker 1: read about it in textbooks, Sonny, but you don't know

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Speaker 1: what it was like to be in the trenches, buying

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Speaker 1: imports singles for precious always B sides and taking your

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Speaker 1: marching orders from Noel Gallagher about the evils of Damon Alburn.

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Speaker 1: I think I have to break this down for you

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Speaker 1: and all the other kiddies out there. So let's get

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Speaker 1: into this mess. We have to start, unfortunately, Stephen with Blur.

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Speaker 1: They were the first earlier band. They were formed while

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Speaker 1: the members were attending college in London, and they initially

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Speaker 1: wanted to call themselves Seymour after a J. D. Salinger novella.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, right there, that's a pretty good indicator

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Speaker 1: of how different Blur are than Oasis. I wonder like

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Speaker 1: if the Gallagher brothers have read any J. D. Sounger.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing probably not. I mean it's starting as more

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Speaker 1: of a Faulkner band, to be honest. Blur really their

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Speaker 1: debut Leisure, two years later after they formed, and a

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Speaker 1: two month tour of the United States in would prove

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Speaker 1: to be really instrumental for the band because they were

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Speaker 1: homesick and they were starting to sort of tweak their

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Speaker 1: sound as a reaction against this American grunge scene that

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Speaker 1: sort of helped them whenever torn across the country, and

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Speaker 1: they embrace their own cultural identity and the home grown

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Speaker 1: sounds of England like the Rolling Stones, who the Kinks,

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Speaker 1: bands like the Clash, and more modern groups like the

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Speaker 1: Specials and the Smiths and Madness and this so the

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Speaker 1: seas of brit pop, which was, you know, admittedly more

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Speaker 1: of like a headline hype kind of thing than a

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Speaker 1: genuine musical movement, but it did have a distinctive sound

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Speaker 1: with its mix of pop melodies and rock and roll swagger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel like I have to say this

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Speaker 1: before we get too far into this episode, that you

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Speaker 1: don't have to come clean and say that I don't

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Speaker 1: actually think Blur sucks. You know, I respect their career

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Speaker 1: in legacy, and I think I can analyze it without

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Speaker 1: litting my intense pro oasis biases get in the way.

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Speaker 1: So I'll just put that out there. There's any Blur

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Speaker 1: fans out there who are already turning off this episode

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Speaker 1: because they feel like this will not be a fair

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Speaker 1: and balanced episode of Rivals, I am promising that I

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Speaker 1: can do that. I think the britishness of Blur is

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Speaker 1: what really ties them to bands, like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: like the Kinks and the Smiths, Like when you listen

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Speaker 1: to their records, especially the ones that they made at

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Speaker 1: their creative peak in the mid nineties, you get a

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Speaker 1: real sense of what it was like to live in England.

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Speaker 1: I think at that time, like there's a specificity to

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Speaker 1: Blur lyrically that really sets them apart as cultural commentators

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Speaker 1: and really like on some level, like they're like satirists.

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Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, Oasis doesn't have

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Speaker 1: that at all. Like lyrically, they're basically focused on things

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Speaker 1: like cigarettes and alcohol and rock and roll and all

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Speaker 1: that and cool guys stuff the culture around bands basically,

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Speaker 1: so in a way I think like Blur is probably

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Speaker 1: stronger when it comes to lyrics, though I think the

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Speaker 1: generality of Oasis is what allowed them to transition better

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Speaker 1: to the American market, And I also think it makes

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Speaker 1: oasis is songs more timeless, Like you listen to Blur

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Speaker 1: and it seems very nineties to me, whereas Oasis has

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Speaker 1: a timelessness where if you just like good time rock

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Speaker 1: and roll, Oasis delivers in spades. Blue reach peak Britishness,

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Speaker 1: they have to say. When they released their third album,

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Speaker 1: their masterpiece, really, park Life, and it's written from the

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Speaker 1: perspective of the British working class, and the music video

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Speaker 1: for the title track even had Phil Daniels, who played

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Speaker 1: Jimmy the mod in the nine film Quadraphenia based on

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Speaker 1: on the Who album. So I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 1: don't get much more British than Jimmy the maud here.

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Speaker 1: This album was an absolute smash, hitting number one for

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Speaker 1: nine weeks in the UK and one an unprecedented four

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Speaker 1: brit Awards, which is like the English equivalent of Grammy's

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Speaker 1: basically Best Single, Best Video for Park Life, Best Album

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Speaker 1: and Best British Group. And before this, you know, UK

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Speaker 1: indie bands were basically like fringe acts and now they

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Speaker 1: were at national figures. They basically had swept their version

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Speaker 1: of the Grammy Big War really and in their acceptance

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Speaker 1: speech for Best British Group, David Albert goes on stage

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Speaker 1: and says that he should be sharing this award with

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Speaker 1: another up and coming British group, Oasis, which Graham Cox

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Speaker 1: and ads much love and respect to them. Yes, which

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Speaker 1: again I think this is going to define in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways the dynamic between these two bands, because Blur,

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Speaker 1: to me, we're not the instigators of this at all,

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Speaker 1: like they in a way were the victims of it.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think that they really saw Oasis as

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Speaker 1: like competitors, as you can see from that speech. In

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Speaker 1: a way, I think they looked at them as like compatriots,

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Speaker 1: like we're these young British bands, We're bringing England back

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Speaker 1: to rock and roll at a time where grunge was

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Speaker 1: very dominant. And like you said before, you know, part

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Speaker 1: of what the inspiration was for Blur at the time

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Speaker 1: is that they wanted to assert that England matter too,

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Speaker 1: Like they didn't want to emulate what the Americans were doing,

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Speaker 1: so they did something that was very much kind of

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Speaker 1: based in their own culture. And I think they looked

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Speaker 1: at Oasis with pride in a way, like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is another great British rock band coming along. And of

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Speaker 1: course Oways says they put out their debut definitely maybe

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Speaker 1: earlier on in And if you want more background on

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Speaker 1: the Oasis story, I recommend that you check out our

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Speaker 1: earlier episode on the rivalry between Noel and Liam Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: We get pretty deep into it, uh you know their

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Speaker 1: background in that episode. But I think in terms of

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Speaker 1: the dynamic with Blur, it's important to just say quick

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Speaker 1: that Oasis I think could be pretty broadly defined as

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Speaker 1: like the blue collar band. You know, they came from

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Speaker 1: more of a working class background, and I think musically

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Speaker 1: they were just much more of like a meat and

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Speaker 1: potatoes type band really, like kind of like a pub

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Speaker 1: rock band, which is a crazy thing to say about

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Speaker 1: a band that would like pretty quickly go on to

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Speaker 1: play stadiums. But I think that even when they were

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Speaker 1: playing on the biggest stages, the appeal of Oasis was

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Speaker 1: that these were simple songs that you could pretty much

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Speaker 1: memorize after the first time you heard them, and by

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Speaker 1: like the second or third time, you would have your

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Speaker 1: arms around the other lads in your group, hoisting points

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Speaker 1: and thinking about how you wanted to live forever. Like

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Speaker 1: that was the appeal of Oasis, much less cerebral than Blur.

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Speaker 1: Like Blur was the kind of band again, this was

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Speaker 1: a band that almost named themselves after a J. D.

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Speaker 1: Sunder story. You know, they were much more literary band,

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Speaker 1: and they were much more I think concerned with the

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Speaker 1: culture of Britain and and commenting on what was going

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Speaker 1: on in England at the time, and yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: comes from two different worlds and I think because of

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Speaker 1: those different aesthetics it just really lined up well. Even

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Speaker 1: though Blur I don't think wanted to have a conflict,

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Speaker 1: I think it made it like really attractive for Oasis

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Speaker 1: in the beginning anyway, to be this underdog band that

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Speaker 1: could kind of just like throw darts at this like

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Speaker 1: very popular but kind of snooty and posh band called Blur. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean this really from the jump, these two bands

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Speaker 1: had really distinct lanes, as you were saying, and it

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Speaker 1: kind of sets the groundwork for this Beetle Stones comparison

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Speaker 1: thing to come. I mean Oasis were the brash, swaggering

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Speaker 1: working class heroes and Blur were like the tweetie are

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Speaker 1: at school kids and they had a more refined and

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Speaker 1: introverted approach to their music. Oasis are cocky and arrogant.

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Speaker 1: Blur has Alex James, who's this like winky, cuddling dude

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Speaker 1: who bounces around like he's in the Monkeys. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's you couldn't get more distinct from him than like

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Speaker 1: Liam Gallagher who just goes on stage and scowls with

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Speaker 1: his hands behind his back the whole time. In terms

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Speaker 1: of their music, obviously, Oasis, as you said, made the

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Speaker 1: totally opposite of Blur's kinksish character studies and all the

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Speaker 1: sort of satires found on Park Life. Instead of making

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Speaker 1: an album about the British every man, which is what

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Speaker 1: Blur did with Park Life, they made an album for

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Speaker 1: the British every man, like a celebration of the ordinary person.

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Speaker 1: I always felt like you could, actually you feel like

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Speaker 1: you could be an Oasis too, where I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's something that you feel with Blur. You know, no

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Speaker 1: one knows what the hell supersonic man. It just sounded cool,

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Speaker 1: and you mentioned cigarettes and alcohol. The song on the

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Speaker 1: Oasis track. It doesn't condone it's use, but it's about,

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Speaker 1: in Nole's words, someone who's on the doll who might

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Speaker 1: not have any other pleasures but these, so you know,

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Speaker 1: he's sort of unders dance where these people are coming from,

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Speaker 1: whereas Blur are just kind of like sketching them um style.

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Speaker 1: Over Stubstance is a bit too reductive for the Oasis

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Speaker 1: versus Blur discussion, but I think it's not far off

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Speaker 1: to describing what what they have going on. Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: me like a handy way to break down the differing

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Speaker 1: world views of Blur and Oasis is I think Blur

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Speaker 1: essentially wrote songs from like an insider's point of view

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Speaker 1: of British society, particularly like the country's like trendy and

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Speaker 1: like most posh people, you know. I think of that

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Speaker 1: song country House Like, which is like one of the

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Speaker 1: defining Blur songs of this era, which was about their

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Speaker 1: manager buying this like lavish mansion in the country, and

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Speaker 1: the tone of that song is very much reminiscent of

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Speaker 1: like those ray Baby songs from the Kinks, where it's

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Speaker 1: taking this like knowing comic view of privilege, whereas Oasis

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Speaker 1: had an outsider's perspective, like they actually aspired to fame

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Speaker 1: and wealth when they put out their first record, they

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Speaker 1: didn't know anyone that had a country house like they

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Speaker 1: wanted to have a country house. I always think of

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Speaker 1: the first song, I definitely maybe rock and Rolls are

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Speaker 1: as being like their mission statement, like for Oasis, being

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Speaker 1: in a band was an escape in the idea of

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Speaker 1: owning a house in the country. At least at first,

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Speaker 1: it was like this incredible luxury that you could only

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Speaker 1: dream about, you know, Like for Blur it was something

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Speaker 1: you could that you would make fun of almost but

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Speaker 1: for Oasis it was like this romantic thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: like we want to be rich so we can be

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Speaker 1: one of those people. So like to me, like dead

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Speaker 1: is the core difference between those two groups. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the thing that I love about them is

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Speaker 1: that it's it's the case of the underdog succeeding. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they brought themselves out of this horrible poverty and in

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Speaker 1: Northern England and be cam and it's it's rare that

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Speaker 1: somebody from the Jump sings about wanting to be a

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Speaker 1: rock and roll star on track one of their first

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Speaker 1: album and then does it almost instantly. Man, that's part

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Speaker 1: of the magic of the Oasis story. I feel like,

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Speaker 1: oh absolutely, it's like the greatest called shot in rock history.

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Speaker 1: Like some of the fiercest feuds, Oasis and Blur started

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Speaker 1: out actually sharing a healthy mutual respect for one another.

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Speaker 1: When we talked about the brit Awards earlier, when Blur

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Speaker 1: get up and and actually praise Oasis when they're accepting

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Speaker 1: the award for Best British Artist, and I think only

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Speaker 1: five of the enemy awards. Liam Gallagher was actually really

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Speaker 1: humble when Blur walked away with five awards to Oasis

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Speaker 1: is three. He said, you know, I don't think we

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Speaker 1: Oasis should have gotten more awards than Blur. Blur are

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Speaker 1: a top band. I mean from from Liam Gallagher, that's

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Speaker 1: like incredibly high praise. But their respects started to turn

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Speaker 1: towards resentment after they were lumped together with Blur won

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Speaker 1: too many times in the press under the whole brit

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Speaker 1: pop flag banner, which which they really were kind of

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Speaker 1: keen to avoid. They kind of thought it was just

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Speaker 1: twee and like like you said, I mean, they were

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Speaker 1: doing more just rock and roll. They weren't really specifically

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Speaker 1: trying to take a stand for British culture in the

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Speaker 1: world or anything. And their label boss Alan McGee later

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Speaker 1: said that the track A Digsie's Dinner on Definitely Maybe

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Speaker 1: was actually a piss take to use his words of Blur,

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Speaker 1: uh and it was just like to show Noel basically

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Speaker 1: mocking the whole brit pop sound and showing that he

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Speaker 1: could do it in his sleep. It was easy to

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Speaker 1: do and but I just choose not to do it.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is gonna be something that we speculated

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Speaker 1: this episode about about like the legitimacy of this view,

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Speaker 1: like whether there was genuine animus there or if it

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Speaker 1: was just about basically creating a hype to sell records.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's ample evidence that it was overblown,

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Speaker 1: that there really wasn't that much of a conflict. I

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Speaker 1: do think, however, that like Oasis, their main problem with

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Speaker 1: Blur is that at this time, Blur was the bigger band,

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Speaker 1: and Oasis had a lot of ambition and they wanted

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Speaker 1: to be the biggest band. I think they wanted to

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Speaker 1: be the biggest band in the world. But before you

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Speaker 1: could be the biggest band in the world, you had

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Speaker 1: to be the biggest band in England. And this just

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Speaker 1: strikes me as like a classic case of like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be the boss, you have to

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Speaker 1: take out the boss. And it seems like, you know,

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Speaker 1: more than anything, that was what was motivating the trash

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Speaker 1: talking that was going on, like we can lower these

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Speaker 1: guys a peg. Also, if you talk about the most

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Speaker 1: famous band in the country, that's gonna get you a

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Speaker 1: lot of press attention. It's gonna basically be a double

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Speaker 1: win because not only are you making them, you know

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Speaker 1: Blur look bad but also elevating yourself, and it seems

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Speaker 1: like that is the strategy like from this point on

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Speaker 1: with Oasis, like in relation to Blur, that like they're

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Speaker 1: basically just gonna like mess with these guys heads as

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Speaker 1: much as they can until they can overtake them. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny to me and it maybe like a little

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Speaker 1: sad too that like Blur did not know how to

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Speaker 1: deal with this. I mean they really I think we're

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Speaker 1: like mystified by like the attacks that Oasis we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be launching on them like from here on out. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: They took it personally. Instead of like being able to

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Speaker 1: trash talk back, they took it very personally. Damon was

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Speaker 1: in a Blurred documentary No Distance Left to Run In

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Speaker 1: and he says, Noel Gallaghy used to take the piss

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Speaker 1: out of me constantly and it really really hurt at

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Speaker 1: the time. Oasis were like the bullies I had to

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Speaker 1: put up with in the school, which is you know said,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Gallagher brothers came from Manchester and they

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Speaker 1: had this this difficult upbringing and very violent adolescence and

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Speaker 1: they can't resist. You know, it's it's fight or flight

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Speaker 1: at all times for them, and they can't resist the

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Speaker 1: chance to to just take shots at the leading band,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Blur coming from you know, good London

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Speaker 1: families is just the perfect target. Yeah, And that's the

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Speaker 1: thing about this is that you know, you can look

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Speaker 1: at this scenario and you can go like, yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: way's there were bullies. Their treatment of Blur was unfair.

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Speaker 1: But I think the reason why, like the trash talking

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Speaker 1: landed is that what they were saying how to bring

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Speaker 1: a truth to it. There's this great documentary about britpop

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Speaker 1: that came out in two thousand three called of Course,

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Speaker 1: Live Forever, where Noel Gallagher he's filmed sitting in this

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Speaker 1: like huge opulent house. I assume it's like one of

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Speaker 1: his like twenty seven houses, and he's like in this

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Speaker 1: like high backed chair that looks like a throne. You know,

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Speaker 1: it looks like he's like King Noel sitting in this

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Speaker 1: huge house and he's talking in this interview about how

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Speaker 1: he used to work on building sites, and which is

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Speaker 1: kind of like a weird image because again he's like

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Speaker 1: in the midst of this huge house and he's talking

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Speaker 1: about his working class background. But he basically says about

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Speaker 1: Blur that like, you know, when before I was famous,

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Speaker 1: like I used to you know, work abs where I

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Speaker 1: would get dirt underneath my fingernails. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that's a badge of honor, it's just the fact, like

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Speaker 1: that's where I come from. And then like in the

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Speaker 1: same interview, I think it's like in the DVD extras,

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Speaker 1: actually he calls Damon Auburn a condescending cock. That's a

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Speaker 1: quote for writing songs about the encroachment of American culture

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Speaker 1: on England, which was like again one of the big

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Speaker 1: themes of those like classic Blur records and those quote

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Speaker 1: is if you've got the time to worry about American

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Speaker 1: culture creeping into a British society, then I would get

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Speaker 1: a proper fucking job. And then he of course calls

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Speaker 1: Damon Auburn a fucking student, which I think he like,

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Speaker 1: that's also like what he said about Radiohead and probably

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Speaker 1: like every other like prominent British band of that time.

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Speaker 1: As an oaysis fan, I think this is beautiful, of course,

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Speaker 1: and I am someone who is more apt to sort

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Speaker 1: of like sympathize with the blue collar underdog band. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I of course eat all this stuff up.

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Speaker 1: I will say, like, on some level, I will concede

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Speaker 1: that like this is no Gallagher again being a bit

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Speaker 1: of a bully and maybe even being a hypocrite, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about having dirt under his figure and nails, like

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Speaker 1: when he was a much richer rock star, probably at

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Speaker 1: that point than Damon Alburn was. But again, he's puncturing

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Speaker 1: the pretensions of like smart culture and I put smart

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Speaker 1: in quotes, and he's doing it a way that I

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Speaker 1: think resonates with people. And as an American fan, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things I connected with. Like I

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Speaker 1: liked the no bullshit attitude of Oasis and it really

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Speaker 1: connected with me after all those years of like grunge

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Speaker 1: bands basically being miserable about being famous. It's like, here

360
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Speaker 1: was an unpretentious guy from like a really hard rocking

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Speaker 1: band that embraced being famous and made fun of people

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Speaker 1: that like took rock start him too seriously. I mean

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Speaker 1: that I think was the appeal of Oasis. I think

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Speaker 1: it was the same interview where he said, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: used to work on building sites that fundamentally makes my

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Speaker 1: soul more pure than blurs, right, you know. I mean

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Speaker 1: he's kidding and it's funny, but on some level, Oh

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Speaker 1: you wonder how much he's actually kidding, Yeah exactly. I

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Speaker 1: mean he says it with a wink, but he also

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Speaker 1: used that as a cudgel against Blur, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it really worked. Yeah, it's pretty brutal shanking. Uh. Taking

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Speaker 1: it back, things start to really get weird between the

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Speaker 1: two bands. Backstage at the Enemy Awards, Liam starts taking

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Speaker 1: shots at Alex James, who I always thought was kind

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Speaker 1: of like the cute one, sort of like the Davy

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Speaker 1: Jones of Blur, like always sort of like always winking

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Speaker 1: at the camera. He's like, he's the one that just

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Speaker 1: seems to be so impressed with his own adorability. And

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Speaker 1: I can see how Liam will get really piste off

380
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Speaker 1: by that, So he starts shouting various uh not nice

381
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Speaker 1: things at Alex James and Graham Coxon is very drunk

382
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Speaker 1: and walks up and kisses Liam on the cheek and

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Speaker 1: tries to like smooth things over. This doesn't completely boil

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Speaker 1: over into a full out rumble, but you can definitely

385
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Speaker 1: tell that something is about to happen between these two bands. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it goes to another level when Always puts out

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Speaker 1: the singles I might say uh, which is one of

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Speaker 1: the great Oasis songs and also an example of something

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00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, where lyrically, Oasis songs are

390
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: like nonsensical, Like that is one of the most famous

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Speaker 1: nonsensical Oasis songs of all time, talking about there's fishes

392
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Speaker 1: in the dishes and like that whole thing at the

393
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: end makes no sense, just terrible lyrics, but just a

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00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: brilliant rock song and incredible sort of like t Rex

395
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: inspired guitar riff and Owasis through a party when that

396
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: song went to number one and Damon Alburn decides to

397
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Speaker 1: show up, I guess it's like a sign of goodwill,

398
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: like he's trying to support again this other you know

399
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Speaker 1: band in the British rock scene. And apparently at the party,

400
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, Damon Alburn's hanging out and Liam Gallagher comes

401
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: up to him and goes right in his face and

402
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 1: he goes numble fucking one, which is amazing. That was

403
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Speaker 1: me trying to do a Liam Gallagher impression. Was pretty good,

404
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: and from then it just you know, pretty much like deteriorated.

405
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Speaker 1: Apparently there were some unkind things said about Damon Auburn's

406
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time, which was Justine Frishman from the

407
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Speaker 1: band Alastica, and uh damon. I think at this point

408
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: he felt like, Okay, we're gonna have this sort of

409
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: confrontational relationship I guess between our bands. But it seems

410
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: like from his perspective he still kind of thought of

411
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Speaker 1: it as like, well, this is just for fun, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking it personally. This is a show business.

413
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 1: But like from then on, like Oasis like did take

414
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Speaker 1: it seriously, like they like legitimately like hated Blur, or

415
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 1: at least that was the story anyway, that like, you know,

416
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Speaker 1: Blur might have looked at it as a game, but

417
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: Oasis was gonna basically take it forward as a blood sport.

418
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: And for years this incident was put forward as the

419
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: moment when Blurred decided to launch their famous chart battle

420
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: with Oasis. They were going to release their single country House,

421
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: and they were checking the release schedules and Oasis is

422
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 1: uh single role with It was going to be out

423
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: I think the week before, so they moved their song

424
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: backs they'll be released on exactly the same day, so

425
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 1: they could duke it out in the charts and see

426
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: who would be you know, the pre eminent British rock

427
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 1: band of the moment, and so for years this whole

428
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: number fucking one thing was cited as like why that happened.

429
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 1: In later years, many have suspected that there was actually

430
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: a deeper reason for this feud, and you can kind

431
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: of get a sense of it in the Live Forever

432
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: documentary when Damon's asked about the feud with Oasis and

433
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 1: he gets really like awkward and quiet, and he says,

434
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you the real reason why,

435
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: because you know there are other people involved in the

436
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: real reason why we fell out so publicly, and it

437
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: was kind of this like ominous thing to say. He

438
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: got very like, you know, you didn't really want to

439
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: go there, and and it kind of seemed like, okay,

440
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: maybe he just thinks he's too grown up to you know,

441
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: engage in this kind of like feuding now. But then

442
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: in the Daniel Rachel's two thousand nineteen oral history of

443
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: brit Pop called Don't Look Back at Anger, Nol speaks

444
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: of a love triangle between Liam Gallagher and Damon and

445
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, as one might expect, he was less than

446
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: delicate and his phrasing he said, Liam and Damon were

447
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: shagging the same bird and there was a lot of

448
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: cocaine involved and that's where the germ of the feud grew. Uh.

449
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: And so it hasn't been proven, but it's some other

450
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: people in the in the Oasis and Blurred Camp have

451
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: basically backed that up, that there was there was a

452
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: love triangle situation going on. Yeah, like Ellen McGhee, who

453
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,479
Speaker 1: was the head of Creation Records, he backed up that

454
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: version of events, but like Liam Gallagher himself has denied it.

455
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: He went on Twitter and he vehemently said that this

456
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: was not true. I love that he referred to Damon

457
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: Auburn as Dermott Oblong, which is an incredible this of

458
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: Damon Alburn. But yeah, he basically said like that that

459
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: that's not true. And he said and as for you McGee,

460
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: you fucking wasp, keep your fucking mouth shut about me.

461
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: Oh yo, get slapped as you were lg x um.

462
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, I mean, does that is

463
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: that actually an admission of guilt there? I don't know,

464
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: is this like a non denial denial. I mean he's

465
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: sort of like vehminly I said, attacking them. He's not

466
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: like I think he protests a little too much. Yeah,

467
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: like he doth protest too much. I'd say, we're gonna

468
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: take a quick break to get a word from our

469
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: sponsor before we get to more rivals. So who knows

470
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: the real reason for why this food is taken off.

471
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: But it's August four, that's the release date for Blour's

472
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: next single, country House, the same day that Oasis was

473
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 1: due to release Roll with It Showdown in the charts.

474
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: The British rock community have not seen anything like this

475
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: since the Beatles versus the Stones. I feel like it

476
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: should be noted here that like none of this stuff

477
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: like really mattered in America. I mean, it's kind of

478
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: amazing to me that like I cared about it at

479
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: all like ninety six, because you know, Oasis was building

480
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: an audience in the United States, but like it didn't

481
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: really like flourish here until like the spring of ninety six.

482
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: That that's when wonder All like really blew up and

483
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: it became a top ten hit in America. And like

484
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: Blur still like wasn't like that big of a deal

485
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: in America that they were a cult band, but like

486
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: you mentioned song too, you know, that didn't come out

487
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: until like ninety seven. Or so, so like all the

488
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: stuff that we're talking about, it was really kind of focused,

489
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, in England and you know maybe some other

490
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: places in Europe. You know, the only Americans really who

491
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: cared about the Oasis versus Blur rivalry in America were

492
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: like basically just nerds like me who were into British bands,

493
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: who were you know, like buying Supergrass records and Verve

494
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: records and you know maybe even like getting into Gay

495
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: Dad and you know, bands like that. We're the only

496
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: ones that cared. But yeah, this was definitely you know,

497
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: an outside of America phenomenon at this point, and it

498
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: is just crazy to reflect on how huge a cultural

499
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: moment this was. In England. It was like a serious

500
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: cultural event. They were on the cover of the Enemy,

501
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: which is like the British version of Rolling Stone, basically

502
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: a big banner headline British heavyweight Channe being Chip with

503
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: this mock boxing poster featuring the two bands, and they're

504
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: even like spots on the national ten o'clock news. I mean,

505
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the British public, this was an

506
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: all out cultural wharves industrial North versus you know, cultured South.

507
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: It was rich versus poor educated versus uneducated, middle class

508
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: versus working class. As we said earlier, Blur took on

509
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: the role of the sort of elitist middle class Londoners,

510
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: and Oasis appeared to personify the roughnecked working class Northern

511
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: English folk. And Oasis dubbed Blur art school wankers and

512
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: Mott Damon for singing with this like faux Cockney accent

513
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: that you know he had he had no right to

514
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: sing in because of his posh upbringing. And you know,

515
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: Oasis hadn't gone to college. And you know, as we

516
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, they spent time before they were banned as

517
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: construction workers. And you said said it perfectly earlier. They

518
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: were trying to reject this pretense that they felt that

519
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Blur was all about the sort of art school, slightly

520
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: bohemian thing that Blur put forward. They wanted to make

521
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: rock and roll real again. And you know, Blur they

522
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: dismissed them as preening public school boys, and the inference

523
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: being that like a life of privilege had left them

524
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: with no real emotions to call on it, and Oasis

525
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: were like really had their heart on their sleeve and

526
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: they could be I'll behaved and laddish, but they were

527
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: real and you know, it's it's important to mention that

528
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: at the upstart of this whole feud, Blur were a

529
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: much much, much much bigger, better established bands, so it

530
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: did have that underdog thing and it really added to

531
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: their whole every man charm. But then on the flip side,

532
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: Blur came across as like the kind of nerdy kid

533
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: who got bullied, and Oasis were absolutely the buoys in

534
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: the scenario. Yeah, and I think you really see like

535
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: Blur having second thoughts almost immediately that they engaged with

536
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: this because I think they they knew that they were

537
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: in over their heads, not only because I think Oasis

538
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: was just better at insulting them, Like Oasis, you know,

539
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: Noel and Liam they are among the greatest insult comics

540
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: in rock history. So like, if you're gonna go toe

541
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: to toe with them with you know, insults, you're gonna lose.

542
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: Was like, there's really no one that can keep up

543
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: with them. But also you had this wave that was

544
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: starting to happen with Oasis where they were really starting

545
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: to take over the country. So you know, they had

546
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: this I think appeal as underdogs, but they were like

547
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: really becoming the dominant ones like pretty quickly, so it

548
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: just seemed like an every opportunity like Oasis would be

549
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: the ones kind of like seizing control of this rivalry.

550
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: And like again, like just their ability to put Blur down,

551
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: it's just consistently hilarious. Like one of my favorite putdowns

552
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: of Blur at this time that came from I think

553
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: I think it came from Nol. He referred to them

554
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: as Chimney sweet music, you know, like think you know,

555
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: like Dick Van Van and Mary Poppins like that kind

556
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: of thing, which is hilarious, you know, I think again

557
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, like this like very sort of like

558
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to say affected britishness of their music

559
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: because they were actually British, but like it just seemed

560
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: adgerated to the point of at least an Oasis asize

561
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: as being like comic, it's like give it a rest,

562
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: Like we know you're from England, you don't have to

563
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: like lay on this accent. That just seems phony at

564
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: some level. And uh, as Oasis was rising in popularity,

565
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: it just seemed like these hits that they could take

566
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: against Blur, it just seemed to be landing more and

567
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: more and having more of a devastating effect on their popularity,

568
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: and the more of the Blur would kind of go

569
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: on on the news and sort of like backpedal a

570
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, earn even more wrath from the Gallaghers,

571
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: because there's nothing that they hate more than somebody. You know,

572
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: if if they sense fear in you, they're gonna go

573
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: that much harder, I feel like, so that really earned

574
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: even more disrespect from Oasis. And the funny thing to

575
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: me about this whole chart battle thing is that all

576
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: this fuss is over too. Not that great songs. I

577
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: don't think either of these songs are, like you know,

578
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: in any way really notable aside from this feud in

579
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: either of their cannons. I mean, the Blur song country

580
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: House sounds like a parody to me of park Life,

581
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: And as you said, it's about a man in the

582
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: city who makes his millions and then retires to the

583
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: country for this rural life of anti depression meds and

584
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: weight watchers. And it was poking fun at their former manager,

585
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: and it boasted this really high concept video directed by

586
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: Damien Hirst, the world famous artist, and it co starred

587
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: pretty big English stars at the time. Keith Allen is

588
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: Lily Allen's dad, and Little Britain star Matt Lucas, who

589
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: are big comediy so it had these, like you know,

590
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: celebrity driven music videos, and Oasis, on the other hand,

591
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: didn't bother with things like that. Well yeah, and you

592
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: know the thing is, though, I I think you're right

593
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: about in terms of these two songs. I'll even say,

594
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: and this is again to prove how unbiased I'm going

595
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: to be in this episode. In spite of my pro

596
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: wassis bias, I actually think country Houses maybe a better

597
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: song than Roll with It, Like Roll with It is

598
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: like one of the weaker tracks for sure. I wants

599
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: a story Morning Glory. I mean, even Noel Gallagher himself said,

600
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: and this is another great quote, he said, it's about

601
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: funk all That's what he said about Roll with It,

602
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: basically just like a meaningless song that he just knocked out.

603
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: He also called country House fucking dogshit, so he thought

604
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: both songs sucked, and like, I don't think always has

605
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: ever played role with It live. It's like one of

606
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: the few songs off that record, and what story Morning

607
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: Glories just like a blockbuster album. Most of the songs

608
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: on that record have become live staples. But like Roll

609
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: with It, in spite of being a single, you know,

610
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: they've never really played it, and I think that pretty

611
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: much says it all about how they feel about that song.

612
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's funny that this ended up being like

613
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: the flashpoint really between these two bands, and again it

614
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: is still some mind blowing I think of how big

615
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: a cultural event this was. The final results were the

616
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: lead story on the ten o'clock news in England. I

617
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: mean that that was what they lead with, so huge

618
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: cultural event. Oasis were the band that were favored to win.

619
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: I think it was a bookmaker gave him the odds

620
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: at six and four in their favor, but ultimately Blur

621
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: were victorious. Country House sold I think two hundred and

622
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: seventy four thousand copies to Roll with Its two hundred

623
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: and sixteen thousand, and they charted number one and number

624
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: two respectively. Uh. Some cynics, I have to say, pointed

625
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: out the fact that Blur released two CD singles, one

626
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: of them had live tracks from their mile end show

627
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: in June. Uh. In other words, some Oasis fans believed

628
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: that the election was stolen. Yes, but they were still

629
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: number one and William. William's response was took him five

630
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: years ago to number one, took us twelve months fair point.

631
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: And you know, again, when you look at the response

632
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: to this election that took place, you see where these

633
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: two groups diverge because I think, you like, when Blur

634
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: found out that they won, you know this thing, they

635
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: kind of had this attitude of like, Okay, now we

636
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: can maybe go back to just being normal here. Like

637
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: Alex James had this quote where he said, the thing

638
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: that most people don't understand when they read the papers

639
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: is that this revelry is all made up. I know

640
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: that when I want to hear a good song, I

641
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: can write one, and when I want to go for

642
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: a drink, I can call up Liam. There's few peple

643
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: would rather drink with than Oasis. So you know, he's

644
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: trying to put a good face on it that like, Okay,

645
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: this this is just for publicity, we're actually friends in

646
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: real life. And it seems like, you know, Blur has

647
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: felt this way consistently over the years, like when they've

648
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: been asked about it. There was a quote from Graham

649
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: Coxon where he looked back on this, you know role

650
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: with it versus Country House competition and he he really

651
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: felt that it was like quote a hollow, pointless victory,

652
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, that this was just basically just like a

653
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: lot of nonsense that was that was ginned up to

654
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: sell records. And yeah they won, but he you know,

655
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter that we won this thing. But

656
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: Oasis did not feel that way. They felt much different.

657
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about this is that like, yeah, Blur, like,

658
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, they won this competition between these two singles,

659
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: but it was kind of the beginning of the end

660
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: of them being the big expand in England. I mean,

661
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: because I think pretty quickly this is where they're kind

662
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: of crossing like their trajectories and like Blurs going down

663
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: a little bit, and you really see Oays again shooting

664
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: up into the stratosphere. If Blur and interviews were saying like,

665
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we didn't really care, we're all friends always

666
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: just a the total opposite approach. Uh. Liam gives an

667
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: interview the Enemy soon after the chart battle, and he says,

668
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: I cared because I want number ones. I think roll

669
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: with It is a great song, and he goes he

670
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: talks about how he met up with Alex James in

671
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: a pub soon after all this, and he said, oh, yeah,

672
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: congratulations on your number one. You know, it's about sucking time,

673
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: and Alex is trying to be all nice and friendly, says,

674
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: oh yeah, well you know both of our songs were

675
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: shipped anyway, and William turns on and says, no, this

676
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: is where you're wrong, and this is why I fucking

677
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: hate you and your band. I thought our song was top.

678
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: So again this really gets back to the whole like

679
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: they're not here to play, you know, like like this

680
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: faux humility, bashful thing like, no, we want to be

681
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: the best fucking band in the world, and if you're

682
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: in front of us and get out of the fucking way,

683
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: which you know I I appreciate on some level. No,

684
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: actually was even more blunt about his hatred of Blur.

685
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: He was giving an interview, I think to the Observer

686
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: and he said I hate that Alex and Damon. I

687
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: hope they catch aids and die for which which he

688
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: later apologized and downgraded the wish to a bad coal

689
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: but but still not not a not a nice thing

690
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, this is the most infamous incident I

691
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: think in this rivalry, and I have to say, you know,

692
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: I love Oasis, but this is an instance where I

693
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: feel a little embarrassed to be backing the band that

694
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: wished aids on the other band. I feel like that's

695
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: not a great look for my boys here, and I

696
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: wish that wouldn't have happened. Again, showing my lack of

697
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: bias in this episode, I will call out Oasis for

698
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: doing that. They shouldn't have done that. Blur, you were

699
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: in the right. I'm sorry that happened. But this all

700
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: goes back to something I brought up earlier, which is,

701
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: you know how genuine really? Like was this ravelry? And

702
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: I I'm just flashing back to that quote that we

703
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: were talking about, like where Alex James was saying, you know,

704
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: I can go to a bar and I can call

705
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: it William Gallagher and I know I can drink with

706
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: him and it's going to be a good time. And

707
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: then we have that quote from Liam Gallagher like where

708
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: they are actually drinking together and he's talking about how

709
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: much he hates Alex James and it's like his face

710
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: like what's right? Like are they actually pals or do

711
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: they actually hate each other? Again, I I just go

712
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: back to this idea that like I think Oasis felt

713
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: genuine competition with them. I think they you know, they

714
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: wanted to be the biggest ban in the world, and

715
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: they knew that in order to do that, they had

716
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: to take out Blur first. So it's like, you know,

717
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: almost like a sporting competition, like you have to hate

718
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: your opponent, and I think that is where the hate

719
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: was rooted. And maybe like if that wasn't in the

720
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: way or like once you know, Blur was vanquished, you know,

721
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: there wasn't going to be that motivation to hate them anymore.

722
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: So I think that's genuine. But also at the same time,

723
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: I think there was an acknowledgement on Oasis part that

724
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: this was going to be good for their career. It

725
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: was like a win win, like, we hate these guys,

726
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: It's going to motivate us to propel our career forward,

727
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: and it's also going to give us publicity, you know,

728
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: the pro wrestling side of Oasis, which I've always loved,

729
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: and that's another reason why I like them more than Blur.

730
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: I like their outrageousness, but it just seemed like it

731
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: had a double thing of like kind of fueling their

732
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: fire and also you know, helping them out on the

733
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: pr n you get the impression that Oasis all they

734
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: ever really knew how to do was fight, like just

735
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: in their interactions with the world. I mean, if you

736
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: look at their upbringing and just just sort of the

737
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: violence of the Arato lessons, it makes total sense. I mean,

738
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: fight is like sort of the first thing that comes

739
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: to their mind in any kind of human response. So yeah,

740
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: it almost seems like they would lead with that in

741
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: any in any interaction. And you noticed that once uh,

742
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: they clearly begin to eclipse Blur as Britain's biggest band

743
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: and eventually the bigger band in the world, the feud

744
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: between them kind of dissipates. I think that the real

745
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: sort of defining moment when they overtook Blur was at

746
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: the brit Awards, in which was I believe a year

747
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: after Blur had come out ahead and they went up

748
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: on stage and they thanked Oasis and said, you know,

749
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: they should be up here with us as best British Band,

750
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: and they shared the moment with them. Oasis kind of

751
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: flipped that on its head. They when they won I

752
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: think it was Best British Band. They get up on

753
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: stage and they mock Blur by singing from the Podium

754
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: a version of Blurs Park Life that was now titled

755
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: Shite Life. So very different response to UH to getting

756
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: the Glory and becoming the number one band. And I

757
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: feel like this was right when Blur and Oasis released

758
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: their long players in the fall of Blur came first

759
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: with The Great Escape, and What's the Story Morning Glory

760
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: came in October. The Great Escape came out, hit number one,

761
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: but it didn't hit the highs that Park Life had.

762
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: It was generally seen as kind of more of a

763
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: disappointment from the previous album one triple platinum and got

764
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: good reviews, but it just completely pales in comparison to

765
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: the cultural juggernaut that was What's the Story Morning Glory?

766
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if Blur won the commercial battle with the

767
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: song chart battle, Oasis won the war. I mean they

768
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: rebounded from role with it to score of this global

769
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: success that just, you know, almost immediately afterwards, with the

770
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: release of Wonder Wall, it just crushed any subsequent single

771
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: releases from Blurry's The Great Escape, and it bolted them

772
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 1: to fame not only in England but in the United States,

773
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: which had alluded Blur up to this point. I think

774
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: that's the crucial difference here is that Oasis was able

775
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: to become genuine rock stars in America in a way

776
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: that Blur never was. And you know, we're an American

777
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: podcast that we have an American centric view of this

778
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: whole thing, of course, but I think for you know, historically,

779
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: for British bands to make it in America, that's a

780
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: whole other level of success, you know, going back to

781
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, like if you could come across the

782
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: pond and have hits in America, that meant that you

783
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: were really going to be one of the greats, and

784
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, Blur never was really able to do that.

785
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: You know, they had song to which is like one

786
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: of the like cooler Jack jams I guess of like

787
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: the last twenty five years, but like in terms of

788
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: a song like wonder Wall or even like you know,

789
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: songs like don't Look Back in Anger and Champions Supernova,

790
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: which you know aren't as big as wonder Wall, but

791
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: like we're still like substantial hits and like we're playing

792
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: on MTV all the time always. It's just achieved like

793
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: a level of cultural ubiquity in the States and then

794
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: of course elsewhere in the world that Blur could not

795
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: compete with which is why I think, you know you

796
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: were saying earlier, like for a lot of Americans, they

797
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: don't even think of this as a ravalry. You know.

798
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: That's the kind of the irony of it for you know,

799
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: as much as like I've talked about it in my book,

800
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: and you know, as intensive as it was in England,

801
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: really like in terms of like the greater world, you know,

802
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: it's not on the level certainly of like the Beatles

803
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: and Stones, like two bands that you know had equally

804
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: great careers outside of England. This was really like a

805
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: British phenomenon, you know, these two bands going at it,

806
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: and then Oasis of course they go to America and

807
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: then they end up just kind of going off on

808
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: their own and being much bigger where it becomes more

809
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: about the ravelry within the band than it does with

810
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: this other band. Of course, like with Oasis, you know

811
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: what's the story, Morning Glory like really ends up being

812
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: their peak in America because after that they're gonna put

813
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: up be here now and look, I love be here now.

814
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: I had a great time talking about that in our

815
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: Leam versus Noel episode. I'll direct you to that if

816
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: you want to hear more conversations about that Coked Out debacle,

817
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: which is again I think, kind of a brilliant debacle.

818
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: But as we look ahead, like to the two thousands

819
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: and beyonds it is interesting to compare the trajectories of

820
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: these bands, and especially like Damon Alburn as he becomes

821
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: a solo artist and really like this like musical renaissance man. Yeah,

822
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: I mean, Blur kind of collapsed after two thousand threes

823
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: think Tank uh, and they didn't make music together for

824
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: I think almost a decade. But Damon saves his best

825
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: ideas for his animated at the time side project Guerrillas,

826
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: which is actually one of my favorite bands. And he

827
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: scored an international smash with Delva Funky Homo Sapien on

828
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: the song Clint Eastwood And you know it's funny. I mean,

829
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: no at the time when Oasis, his fortunes as a

830
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: band are really on the downturn, he couldn't resist twist

831
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: the knife a little bit. Noel said that, you know,

832
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: it's fitting that Damon has ended up in a cartoon band,

833
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: but you know, I think that it's really it's incredible

834
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: how he's able to reinvent himself creatively. I mean you

835
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: could be cynical and say he does this by having

836
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: the sort of revolving door of all these different artists

837
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: that he brings in from you know, Snoop Dogg to

838
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: think Elton John most recently. It kind of is sort

839
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: of almost like you could view Ms almost a musical vampire,

840
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: just taking from other people. But I think it's an

841
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: incredibly creative and innovative approach to to make in music

842
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: and deep in Days in two thousand and five, another

843
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 1: international hit Plastic Beach in ten. Really, I think he's

844
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: had a creative high and he definitely hit a bigger

845
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: commercial peak in the States than he ever did with Blur.

846
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: And this is at a time and again Oasis is

847
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: really on the downturn. Yeah, I mean I think you know,

848
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: you look at Oasis in comparison to alburn in the

849
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 1: auds and beyond, and you know, it's very easy to

850
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: look at alburna is again like this musical renaissance man,

851
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: that he's someone who I think really proved that like

852
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: he wasn't just a one trick pony with Blur, that

853
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: he could move beyond brit pop and really kind of

854
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: going to all these different musical arenas that I think

855
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: felt much more contemporary with the time, like he felt

856
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: like he was evolving with like the music scenes of

857
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: you know, the century in a way that Oasis really wasn't.

858
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: Like Oasis by the odds became essentially like a legacy act.

859
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: Although I will say again as an Oasis fanboy, two

860
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: thousand Fives Don't Believe the Truth one of their great records,

861
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: and I'll say that, like, I think that album really

862
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: is like an instance of them being a band in

863
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: a way that they weren't in the nineties, because you

864
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: had at that time people like Andy Bell and gam

865
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: Archer in the band who were writing songs. Liam actually

866
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: was writing songs at this time. Actually, on the previous

867
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: Oasis record, Heathen Chemistry, he wrote like a really nice

868
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: ballad called Songbird, which ended up being one of the

869
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: breakout tracks from that record. And it seemed like Oasis

870
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 1: might be the kind of band that, like, for all

871
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: of their struggles and in her personal conflicts, that you know,

872
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: maybe they could be like the Rolling Stones and just

873
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: continue on for decades and decades. But of course that

874
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: was not to be the case. They ended up inmploating

875
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine after a fight between Liam and

876
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: Nol backstage in Paris. As we discussed in a Liam

877
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: in No episode that was thrown fruit involved. It was

878
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: very crazy. Again, please listen to that episode to get

879
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty of that. What is kind of

880
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: amazing to me and maybe like a little bit sad,

881
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: is that, like, you know, a ways this is done,

882
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: Blur actually ends up coming back and having a resurgence

883
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: in the two thousand tens, and of course Damon Alburn

884
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: is doing all this stuff with Gorillas as well as

885
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: like various other side projects that he was involved in.

886
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: You also see like Damon Alburn and Noel Gallagher actually

887
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: start to be friends publicly, you know, which is like,

888
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 1: oh this, this is a sign of maturity for these guys,

889
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: but also for a fan like me, I didn't know

890
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: how to take that, and I guess I still don't. Yeah,

891
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: No one gives an interner you inn when he's talking

892
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: about we just bumped into Damon at a bar and

893
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: he said, oh, yeah, I haven't seen this guy in

894
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: like fifteen years. Hey, how you been. Remember all that

895
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: ship in the nineties and we were like fighting and

896
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: slacking each other off on the predect that was really weird.

897
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: Do you want to want to have a bar? I

898
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: want to have a beer, And just like that, you know,

899
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: I mean, beer is a hell of a diplomat, I

900
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: should say. But uh, it kind of made it apparent

901
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: that like time had healed any of these bruised egos.

902
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: And Noel said, you know you can I'll paraphrase slightly

903
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: what he said, but he said, you know, you can

904
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: say you respect someone as an artist a thousand times

905
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: and will never get reported, but you call someone a

906
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: dick my words once, you know, So it kind of

907
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: didn't seem like ins that it was all water under

908
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: the bridge. And um. Noel actually shared the stage with

909
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: Damon and Graham Coxon in at a at the Royal

910
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: Albert Hall for a Cancer Trust benefit show and they

911
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: played Blurs Tender together and then he went even on

912
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: record for the song we Got the Power of two

913
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: thousands seventeen, Guerrilla's song, and uh, Dannon said in an

914
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: interview later that year, he said, you know, we don't

915
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: talk about our past. We talked about our present. I

916
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: value my friendship with Noel because he's one of the

917
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: only people who went through what I did in the nineties.

918
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: And again I can look at this and you know,

919
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: as an adult, I can say, well, this is great.

920
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: These are people that have like reached middle age and

921
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: they have achieved a certain I guess zen serenity, and

922
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: they can put aside any kind of conflicts in the past.

923
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: Damon can get over feeling bullied and you know, whatever

924
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: fall out he felt over Noel wishing that he had

925
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: AIDS and Noel can, uh, you know, put aside the

926
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: competition that he had as a younger man and just

927
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: respect Damon Alburn as an artist. I should think that

928
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: this is beautiful, and on some level I do, but

929
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: there's also the part of me that hosts a Rivals

930
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: podcast and I like the pettiness and I have to

931
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: say that I appreciate that Liam Gallagher continues to waive

932
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: the petty flag in the Oasis versus Blur Rivelry, and

933
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: he was talking about this in and of course he

934
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: was on Twitter and he says now that dick out

935
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: of Blur and the creepy one out of Oasis need

936
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: to hang their heads in shame, as it's no dancing

937
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: in the streets. As you were talking about that Gorilla song,

938
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: I guess, and of course also making a reference to

939
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: the Mick Jagger David Bowie duet dancing in the streets,

940
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: which I thought was a pretty funny joke. And then

941
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: he had another tweet where he said that gob shite

942
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: out of Blur might have turned Noel Gallagher into a

943
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: massive girl, but believe you me, next time I see him,

944
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: there's gonna be war. And you know, and Liam went

945
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: on to say that he felt that like this uh

946
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: datant basically between Damon and Noel killed brit pop and

947
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: like just took all of the fun and drama and

948
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: conflict that we all loved back in the nineties and

949
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, put it away. And you know, as we

950
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: covered in our Liam versus Nol episode, I think Liam,

951
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: he continues to I guess, keep that pro wrestling aspect

952
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: of Oasis alive. I think Noel has reached a point

953
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: in his career in life where maybe he's a little

954
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: embarrassed by that he doesn't want to do it anymore.

955
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: But thank God for Liam Gallagher. He keeps the pro

956
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: wrestling part of Oasis going, and he feeds the petty

957
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: souls of Oasis fans like me who don't really think

958
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: that Blur suck, but like we love to say that

959
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 1: they suck because it's a lot of fun. We're gonna

960
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: take a quick break to get a word from our

961
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: sponsor before we get to more rivals. All right, so

962
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: we've reached the part of our episode where we give

963
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: the pro side of each part of the rivalry, and

964
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about Oasis first. As I've said, I

965
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: love Oasis absolutely one of my favorite bands of the nineties,

966
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: and there's no question that in relation to Blur, Oasis

967
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: has had a much bigger impact on the world. I mean,

968
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: their most popular song, wonder Wall, is among the only

969
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: songs to have been streamed more than one billion times

970
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: on Spotify. You know, there's just something timelessly rock and

971
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: roll about their music, whereas Blurred, to me, is much

972
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: more of a nineties band. You know, they're specific to

973
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: their era. Plus there's all the stuff around Oasis that

974
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: is just so outrageous and fun. I never get sick

975
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: of reading about it or hearing about it. Oasis forever.

976
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: You're right, how can you not love these guys? I mean,

977
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: their personalities are are just as big as their commercial success.

978
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 1: It's just they're They're incredible. They're the best insult comics ever.

979
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: Maybe Blur were smarter, and maybe they were better received

980
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: by the critics, but Oasis are just so much more fun.

981
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: And you know, when you want to rock out, what

982
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: do you reach for, like you know, End of a Century,

983
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: Like no you put on fucking like you know, rock

984
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: and roll Star, or like even like roll with It.

985
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: You know, I think people connect to Oasis in a

986
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: way that emotionally that they never could with Blur. I

987
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: think that, you know, Oasis, like I'm saying earlier, they

988
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: every man. They made you believe that we could all

989
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: be rock and roll stars if we all just had

990
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: enough swagger and self belief. And I think they make

991
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: people feel better. I feel like, So if you go

992
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: over to the probe Blur side, look, I've bent over

993
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: backwards to be magnanimous in this episode, and you know,

994
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: to set aside all my prejudices, you know, in favor

995
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: of Oasis. So in the spirit of that, I will

996
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: say that, you know, Blur, they were not the instigators

997
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: really of this ravelry. They were I think, in many respects,

998
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: the victims of it. You know, they were targeted because

999
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: they had the misfortunate being the more popular band when

1000
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: Oasis came out, and that made them a target. It

1001
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: made them this topic of scorn that Oasis was going

1002
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: to shoot on basically until Blur got out of the way,

1003
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: and that happened to work. But you know, again, I

1004
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: can say as an Oasis fan that they definitely bullied

1005
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: Blur and that maybe wasn't a cool thing to do.

1006
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: I also think that, you know, you could make a

1007
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: case that Blur was maybe more consistent over their career

1008
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: and they were undoubtedly more musically diverse. Also, I think

1009
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: Damon Alburn, you know, his career outside of Blur has

1010
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: been very distinguished and he's done things as an artist,

1011
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: whether it's with Gorilla Is or one of his many

1012
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: other bands that you know, it's overshadowed really anything that

1013
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: like Liam or Noel have done on their own. So

1014
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: he deserves credit for that. That said, Blur will never

1015
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: matter as much as Oasis, and I'm sorry I have

1016
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: to say that in the pro Blur part of this episode,

1017
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: but I said a lot of nice things about Blur

1018
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: without you, so I feel like I needed to put

1019
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: something at the end and say it once more. Oasis Forever. Yeah,

1020
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: I have to agree it. Just as an American, I

1021
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: always felt like Blur's music wasn't for me, you know.

1022
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate their eclectic, arty nature and when

1023
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: they're at their most kinksie, but yeah, it just was

1024
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: something that it never really resonated with me in an

1025
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: emotional way. But I appreciate that just how eclectic Damon's

1026
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: career was later on. Just from an artistic standpoint, I

1027
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: think his music keeps me interested longer than Oasis is sound,

1028
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: which is generally static. Like if I hear a new

1029
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Gorillas albums coming out, I'm really excited to hear it,

1030
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: But if there's a new Liam or Old solo project,

1031
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I know what I mean

1032
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: for and the excitement is not totally the same. But again,

1033
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to echo what you said Oasis forever.

1034
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: I agree. So if you look at these two bands together,

1035
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I think it was a really funny

1036
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: and like fun rivalry that made me care about rivalries

1037
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: as a teenager, and it was more fun to love

1038
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: Oasis if I could also hate Blur at the same time,

1039
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: Like it just enhanced my appreciation of something that already

1040
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: gave me a lot of joy. So you know, again,

1041
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 1: I am Oasis all the way, but I appreciate Blur

1042
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: for being a supporting player, really like in this conflict

1043
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: and being you know, a great topic for some just

1044
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: hilarious Oasis insults. Yeah, somebody who lived the majority of

1045
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: their life listening to both bands independently without realizing that

1046
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: they were direct competition with one another. I could say

1047
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to enjoy them both separately. I mean,

1048
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: the things that I like and admire about each band

1049
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: sort of stands in contrast on one another. I like

1050
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: Oasis is swagger and their pro wrestling level insults, and

1051
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: I like there's weird, quirky art school sensibilities. You know,

1052
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: you can like them both. So I think at this

1053
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: point the only thing that's left to be said is

1054
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: don't look back in anger the most perfect one, or

1055
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: maybe roll with it. I guess we could say we're

1056
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: rolling with it here at the end of our episode,

1057
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: thank you again for rolling with us. I guess in

1058
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: this episode of Rivals, we've had a great time talking

1059
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: about this beef and feud and long swimming resentment. We'll

1060
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: be back with more in our next episode. Next week

1061
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of My Heart Radio. The executive

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Speaker 1: producers are Shawn ty Toone and Noel Brown. Supervising producers

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Speaker 1: are Taylor Chicoyn and Tristan McNeil. The producers Joel hat Stat,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's Run Tug, I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like

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Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

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Speaker 1: For more podcast for My heart Radio, visit the I

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Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where ever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.