WEBVTT - Manafort Trial Set to Begin in Virginia

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Former Trump campaign

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<v Speaker 1>chairman Paul Manafort is set to go on trial tomorrow

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<v Speaker 1>in Virginia on banking and tax fraud charges. President Trump

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<v Speaker 1>was sympathetic toward man of Port when speaking with Sean

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<v Speaker 1>Hannity on Fox News earlier this month. Paul Manafort, Who's

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<v Speaker 1>who really is a nice man. You look at what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on with him. It's like al capone two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and five tax case or a case that I guess

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<v Speaker 1>very It's just a sad thing. It's a very sad

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<v Speaker 1>thing for our country to say this. Joining us is

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Mints, a former federal prosecutor and a partner in

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<v Speaker 1>McCarter and English Bob. During a storm of tweets on Sunday,

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<v Speaker 1>Trump went on the offensive against Mueller personally. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>in part, is Robert Mueller ever going to release his

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<v Speaker 1>conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump, including the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we had a very nasty and contentious business relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>The only thing we know, just a side note about

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<v Speaker 1>the allegations, which Mueller has denied, is that at Trump

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<v Speaker 1>National Golf Club in Virginia, there was a dispute and

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<v Speaker 1>fees according to Trump's people, but not according to Mueller's people.

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<v Speaker 1>So why this pre trial flutter, Well, it's hard to

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<v Speaker 1>say exactly what's behind the motivations for going after Mueller

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, although obviously there's been a steady drumbeat

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<v Speaker 1>of criticism of the Special prosecutor, both by the President

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<v Speaker 1>and by his legal team. I think one thing we

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<v Speaker 1>can say for sure is it Judge Ellis, who is

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<v Speaker 1>the trial judge and will be hearing this case, has

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<v Speaker 1>made clear to both prosecutors and the defense that he

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<v Speaker 1>is not going to tolerate the injection of any political

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<v Speaker 1>issues into this trial, and he's not going to allow

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<v Speaker 1>lawyers to stray into areas that he believes could prejudice

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<v Speaker 1>the jury. So, for example, he's told the defense that

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<v Speaker 1>they cannot attack the motive of prosecutors for bringing this case.

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<v Speaker 1>He's admonished prosecutors not to tie this case to Russian

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<v Speaker 1>collusion because it's really not about Russian collusion, and prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>in fact have said that they will barely mention the

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<v Speaker 1>word Russia if they make it at all during this trial. Bob,

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<v Speaker 1>given what you just said that that this case really

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<v Speaker 1>isn't about Russia, can you put it in context with

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of the Muller probe? What difference does this

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<v Speaker 1>trial make for the purposes of that probe and for

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump. Uh, That's a great question, Greg, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the answer is, first of all, that Manifort

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<v Speaker 1>supporters what argue this case has absolutely nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with Muller's inquiry, and in fact, they filed a motion

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<v Speaker 1>with the court to dismiss the case that very basis,

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<v Speaker 1>saying that the Special Prosecutor had exceeded his mandate in

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<v Speaker 1>bringing these charges. At the end of the day, this

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<v Speaker 1>case is about money that Mr Mantafort hallogally earned in

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<v Speaker 1>connection with work he had done over in politics in

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<v Speaker 1>the Ukraine, and the government's cases that he failed to

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<v Speaker 1>disclose many millions of dollars on his income taxes and

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<v Speaker 1>then later committed bank fraud in connection with certain loans.

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<v Speaker 1>The value of the case to the Mueller investigation is

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not they can ultimately put enough pressure on

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<v Speaker 1>Mr Manafort to have him cooperate with them, because he

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<v Speaker 1>did serve as the head of the Trump campaign during

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<v Speaker 1>a key moment during the election, and there's no question

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<v Speaker 1>that Mueller and his team believe that he's got valuable

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<v Speaker 1>information should they get him to agree to cooperate. Bob,

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<v Speaker 1>we already know a lot about what the prosecutors are

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<v Speaker 1>going to present, and they have thirty five witnesses, they

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<v Speaker 1>have five exhibits. Do you see any holes in the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution's case that Manaforts attorneys might be able to use. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>So far, Manaforts defense team has done more of a

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<v Speaker 1>job attacking the process rather than the substance of these allegations. So,

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<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned a minute ago, they attacked prosecutors for

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<v Speaker 1>overstepping their bounds by bringing this prosecution in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>But they've really not gone after the substance of this case.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a bit of an open question at this

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<v Speaker 1>point as to what their strategy will be. It would

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<v Speaker 1>seem that this is a very well documented case based

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<v Speaker 1>upon the evidence that we've seen so far that's been

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<v Speaker 1>released in discovery, But obviously, at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutors are going to have to prove that Mr Manafort

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<v Speaker 1>intended to evade his taxes and that he specifically lied

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<v Speaker 1>to bank officials in in getting a loan uh These

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<v Speaker 1>are specific intent crimes, and prosecutors are going to intend

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<v Speaker 1>to do that through these voluminous records and through the

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<v Speaker 1>assistance of the testimony of Rick Gates, who was MANA

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<v Speaker 1>for It's right hand man and who pled guilty last

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<v Speaker 1>February and is now cooperating with the government against his

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<v Speaker 1>former boss Bob. This is potentially one of two criminal

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<v Speaker 1>trials against Manafort. There's another one in federal court in

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<v Speaker 1>in d Cum. How would you compare the two cases?

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<v Speaker 1>Is are they totally separate? Is this one address rehearsal

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<v Speaker 1>for the second one? How do they interact with each other? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a fair amount of overlap. This case, as

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<v Speaker 1>I mentioned, is really about tax evasion and bank fraud.

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<v Speaker 1>The Virginia case, which will start in September after this

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<v Speaker 1>case is concluded UH involves um bank fraud as well,

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<v Speaker 1>but also involves him failing to Manafort failing to file

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<v Speaker 1>uh F bars, which are declaring money that he has

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<v Speaker 1>earned overseas, and failing to identify himself as a far

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<v Speaker 1>An agent. So they are similar, but they're different. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the real questions is why Manaforts Team has

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<v Speaker 1>elected to try these cases separately. Prosecutors had no choice

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<v Speaker 1>but to bring certain charges into Virginia and certain charges

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<v Speaker 1>in the District of Columbia. Typically, defense lawyers will want

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<v Speaker 1>to consolidate those cases as they as they can uh

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<v Speaker 1>in order to give the government only one shot at

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<v Speaker 1>their clients. Here we're seeing Manaforts Team allow the government

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<v Speaker 1>to go after him twice, and there's a question as

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<v Speaker 1>to why they're doing that that. That's always been my question,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't think we have any answers yet. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>we will later on. Thanks so much, Bob. As always,

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<v Speaker 1>that's from our federal prosecutor. Robert Menzi is a partner

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<v Speaker 1>at McCarter in English. The Board of c v S

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<v Speaker 1>will be meeting today to discuss the future of CEO

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<v Speaker 1>Leslie Mounvez, who is accused of sexual harassment by six women.

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<v Speaker 1>In a New Yorker article, author Ronan Pharaoh said at

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<v Speaker 1>the women he interviewed reported a culture of harassment and

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<v Speaker 1>retaliation at CBS. They also said that they were speaking

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<v Speaker 1>out because they were afraid there was a broader culture

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<v Speaker 1>of impunity across this company, which is something we heard

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<v Speaker 1>from dozens of people. In the article, Moonvest acknowledge there

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<v Speaker 1>were times decades ago when he may have made some

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<v Speaker 1>women uncomfortable by making advances, but said he never used

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<v Speaker 1>his position to harm anyone's career, joining us as Debora

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<v Speaker 1>Cats founding partner at Cats, Marshall and Banks Debora. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems that when there have been sexual harassment allegations made

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<v Speaker 1>in the cases of other high profile men in the media,

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<v Speaker 1>such as Charlie Rose Matt Lauer, they left their jobs

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<v Speaker 1>almost immediately after the news reports. So is it likely

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<v Speaker 1>that the board will ask Moonvest to step down before

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<v Speaker 1>a full investigation can be completed. Given these well documented

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<v Speaker 1>allegations in the Pharaoh article, it would be inconceivable to

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<v Speaker 1>me that the board would not ask him to step down.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a publicly traded company. The allegations are serious.

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<v Speaker 1>The allegations and retaliation show uh tremendous abuse of authority

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<v Speaker 1>and power, and I can't see CBS doing anything other

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<v Speaker 1>than asking him to step down. If that's the case,

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<v Speaker 1>what was the purpose of the statement that CBS is

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<v Speaker 1>independent directors put out earlier saying that they plan to

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<v Speaker 1>investigate and hire an outside law firm. Uh. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>not an effort to buy a little time to to

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out exactly what's going on? Well? Perhaps, but

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<v Speaker 1>you can imagine that if he gets fired and there's

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<v Speaker 1>not an investigation that's independent that's conducted, UH, he has

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<v Speaker 1>a massive amount of severance that he would be claiming

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<v Speaker 1>in entitlement to the bottom line is that CBS needs

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<v Speaker 1>to investigate this, and they need to understand how broad

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<v Speaker 1>the behavior is, how many people were affected by it,

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<v Speaker 1>how many people were aware of the behavior, and whether

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<v Speaker 1>Moonvest's conduct are really affected other divisions and the behavior

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<v Speaker 1>of others, allowing situations like, for example, UH Charlie Rose

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<v Speaker 1>and what we now know our serious allegations at UH

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<v Speaker 1>in other divisions to take place. So Deborah Ronan Faraoh said,

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<v Speaker 1>the women he interviewed reported a culture of harassment and

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<v Speaker 1>retaliation at CBS. When the allegations are this old, how

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<v Speaker 1>do you how do you know whether that culture is

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<v Speaker 1>continuing or not? And how do you investigate it? You

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<v Speaker 1>investigated by UH speaking to people who have relevant information,

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<v Speaker 1>companies that really want to get at the issue of

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<v Speaker 1>culture and how pervasive harassment and fears of retaliation are

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<v Speaker 1>actually can do things like conduct climate surveys and do

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<v Speaker 1>focus groups, and once an independent investigator gets on board,

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<v Speaker 1>there's gonna be a list of people who are the

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<v Speaker 1>appropriate people to talk to and they will have that list.

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<v Speaker 1>There are pending EO C charges again CBS, UH, so

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<v Speaker 1>those would be people to speak to. But typically investigators,

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<v Speaker 1>in speaking to one woman who has been arasked, will say,

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<v Speaker 1>speak to this other woman. And it goes on and

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<v Speaker 1>on and on, and even though the allegations are old,

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<v Speaker 1>the ones in the story, there are ones that were

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<v Speaker 1>from the early two thousand's And my guess is uh,

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<v Speaker 1>the behavior uh continued, It typically doesn't end. UM. So

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<v Speaker 1>the investigators have a lot of work to do, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're not only looking at moonvess behavior, but what happened

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<v Speaker 1>with the structure at CBS? What what what structurally is

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<v Speaker 1>broken there that would not allow people to come forward

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<v Speaker 1>with allegations for fear of retaliation, because that's what allows

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<v Speaker 1>this broader culture of immunity. Can you speak to less?

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<v Speaker 1>Moon was a public stance as a supporter of the

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<v Speaker 1>Me Too movement. UM is obviously these are still just

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<v Speaker 1>allegations at this point. But if these allegations are true,

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<v Speaker 1>is that just rank ypocrisy in his part? Well, we

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<v Speaker 1>see this again and again. We see this with Eric Schneiderman.

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<v Speaker 1>We saw this with Harvey Weinstein. What people's public stances

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<v Speaker 1>is often quite different from their private behavior, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>far worse than hypocrisy. In fact, it sometimes helps facilitate

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<v Speaker 1>very predatory behavior when you're perceived as someone who's a

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<v Speaker 1>champion of women. So, Deborah, the legal battle with Sherry Redstone,

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<v Speaker 1>who wants to merge CBS with Viacom, has been portrayed

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<v Speaker 1>as this Moonvez versus Redstone. You know, how might that

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<v Speaker 1>be affected by these by the allegations alone, Well, it

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<v Speaker 1>seems to me that Redstone is in a much better

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<v Speaker 1>position to say, as a majority shareholder, we are not

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<v Speaker 1>keeping him in this position regardless of that ongoing legal battle.

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<v Speaker 1>Um move has has has violated the trust of the

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<v Speaker 1>company and and shareholders, and she would certainly be within

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<v Speaker 1>her rights to say enough is enough. And Deborah, what

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<v Speaker 1>about the women who were allegedly harassed and abused? Do

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<v Speaker 1>they have some legal recourse here? Are is everything going

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<v Speaker 1>to be beyond the Statute of limitations. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know that yet. Certainly allegations from twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>ago or beyond the statute of limitations, whether anyone has

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<v Speaker 1>been affected within the relevant statute of limitations, we need

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<v Speaker 1>to wait and see. But I do understand that there

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<v Speaker 1>are pending e e o C charges and those would

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<v Speaker 1>be those would the claims that can be pursued. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know who they're against. I just know that there

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<v Speaker 1>are pending charges with the e o C. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>just the start of this story. That's Debora Cats of Cats,

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<v Speaker 1>Marshall and Banks. Thanks Deborah, thanks for listening to the

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Law podcast. You can subscribe and listen to the

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<v Speaker 1>show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and on Bloomberg dot com

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<v Speaker 1>slash podcasts. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg Ye