Speaker 1: LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2: Although I totally understand and I support the idea of
Speaker 2: longevity at a company because you can kind of tell
Speaker 2: this long term story.
Speaker 1: And I agree.
Speaker 2: I also think that what makes me sometimes a really
Speaker 2: strong candidate is when they've seen, oh, jam has worked
Speaker 2: at this company, this company, this company, versatile, she's versatile.
Speaker 1: Let me think about it.
Speaker 2: Why would you not want to hire someone who's worked
Speaker 2: for all your competitors. I mean, I'm not talking trade secrets,
Speaker 2: but I mean, like, if you already know that this
Speaker 2: person has unique skills that they've been able to bring
Speaker 2: and thrive in at your competitor, why would they.
Speaker 1: Not do the same thing for you?
Speaker 3: From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts, this is Let's
Speaker 3: Talk offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
Speaker 3: in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
Speaker 3: sanity or asleep.
Speaker 1: I'm Gianna Predenti.
Speaker 2: And I'm Jama Jackson Gadson. So you've worked hard to
Speaker 2: land that first job. I mean, you sent in all
Speaker 2: those job applications, you did all those informational interviews, You've
Speaker 2: put in the work, and now you're at a job
Speaker 2: where you feel pretty comfortable I mean, honestly, it feels good.
Speaker 1: A few years in, though, you start to think, hmm,
Speaker 1: should I stay at this company or's it time to
Speaker 1: move on?
Speaker 3: In other words, should you climb lie up that corporate
Speaker 3: ladder or job up? It can be a tough decision,
Speaker 3: especially when you've really grown to love your first job.
Speaker 3: So if you're thinking about making a change, we're going
Speaker 3: to help you figure out what those next career moves
Speaker 3: might look like for you.
Speaker 1: Today. Let's chat. Let's do it.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 3: A lot of my friends have changed jobs or at
Speaker 3: least considered it in the three years since we graduated,
Speaker 3: and I feel like at one point, every time I
Speaker 3: was going on LinkedIn, it was another person I knew
Speaker 3: from school announcing a job update, and I was like,
Speaker 3: should I be looking for jobs?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: You know, it really got me thinking like should I
Speaker 3: be considering moving on too? Or is it okay to
Speaker 3: want to grow my career at LinkedIn? And these are
Speaker 3: the questions that keep me up at night. You know,
Speaker 3: I really could see myself staying at this company for
Speaker 3: a while because I feel like there's so many internal
Speaker 3: opportunities that I've like yet to even explore. So that's
Speaker 3: where I'm at but let's take a look at the
Speaker 3: larger job movement trends we've been seeing. For gen z ers,
Speaker 3: the trend has been to job hop. So if you
Speaker 3: guys are on career TikTok aka career talk, you've probably
Speaker 3: heard about the benefits of switching jobs every one to
Speaker 3: two years, and research shows that frequent movement really does
Speaker 3: boost pay in the long run. I feel like you've
Speaker 3: talked about this in your own job hopping journey, and
Speaker 3: in the past decade or so, job hopping that trend
Speaker 3: has really become popular in the job market. And that's
Speaker 3: when people you know, hop quite literally from job to
Speaker 3: job in a short period of time. And it's been
Speaker 3: particularly popular among gen z and millennial workers. The reason
Speaker 3: why is because one, it allows you to diversify your
Speaker 3: experience and also just figure out what you want to do.
Speaker 3: Like a lot of people change jobs early on because
Speaker 3: they're like, ooh, this is not it and I want
Speaker 3: to find something different. And because so many people, not
Speaker 3: even just gen z rs, have been changing jobs so
Speaker 3: frequently over the past you know, few years, over the pandemic,
Speaker 3: job hopping isn't frowned upon like it once was. Like
Speaker 3: it used to really raise red flags to hiring managers,
Speaker 3: but now not so much. But I think in general,
Speaker 3: the guidance is still to stay in a job for
Speaker 3: at least two years, and then at that three to
Speaker 3: four year mark is when you kind of get the
Speaker 3: itch and when you need to start thinking about your
Speaker 3: future at the company. And that's where I'm at. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm three years in, so I'm like, hmm. But in
Speaker 3: the past few years, the job market has been slowing
Speaker 3: down and there's been a lot of economic uncertainty, so
Speaker 3: now more workers are staying put because you know, it's
Speaker 3: harder to find a job these days. But I think
Speaker 3: the decision whether to you know, stick at your company
Speaker 3: or find your next play, as we say here at LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: is still really relevant. So in just a bit, we're
Speaker 3: bringing on creative exec and content creator Tim Cusano, who
Speaker 3: you guys definitely know on TikTok and if you don't,
Speaker 3: check out his videos. But he has stayed at every
Speaker 3: company in his career for five plus years, so he's
Speaker 3: going to come on and share a bit about his experience.
Speaker 3: But before he does, Tom, your career has not been linear.
Speaker 1: Girl, She's curvy, she's windy. My hips don't know.
Speaker 3: And you've had multiple jobs and worked at a bunch
Speaker 3: of different companies throughout your career in the past decade alone,
Speaker 3: So what's your experience been like with job switching?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know, this is what I will say.
Speaker 2: First of all, I think it behooves fancy word, behooves,
Speaker 2: particularly early career professionals to job because like you said earlier,
Speaker 2: you don't know what you don't know, and when you
Speaker 2: are going from maybe a company to another, or even
Speaker 2: changing industries or markets, that is how you start asking
Speaker 2: yourself the question what do I like? What do I
Speaker 2: want out of an employer? What do I want out
Speaker 2: of a career?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of times you're thinking about what is
Speaker 2: the job right in front of me? But how is
Speaker 2: that building into the portfolio of your life? And so
Speaker 2: I am so thankful particularly that when I was in
Speaker 2: my twenties I just hopped. Now I hopped methodically. I
Speaker 2: didn't just leave a job, but that I was mindful.
Speaker 2: I wasn't always the year, but I was mindful. I
Speaker 2: always tried to think of, you know, what was the
Speaker 2: next opportunity did I max out in my job? Had
Speaker 2: I max out in the roles and responsibilities or was
Speaker 2: I just being very underpaid and not acknowledged for the work.
Speaker 2: And if I felt like I could go out and
Speaker 2: find something else that was going to hit whatever I
Speaker 2: needed at that time, whether it was more money, more responsibilities,
Speaker 2: better work life balance, I was going to go all
Speaker 2: in on it. I am so thankful that I did,
Speaker 2: because I think job hopping or job switching has a
Speaker 2: lot of benefits. I mean, first of all, you have
Speaker 2: the possible wage increases. I've talked about this before. There
Speaker 2: was a series of like five or six years where
Speaker 2: I literally almost doubled my salary every time I took
Speaker 2: on a new job. Yeah, because you need to get
Speaker 2: in there, you need to learn what you need to learn.
Speaker 2: You need to build that portfolio. And if you can
Speaker 2: show you the next person that you have the skill sets,
Speaker 2: why not go for the maximum. Another thing are title bumps.
Speaker 2: Now this is I think a little bit more dependent
Speaker 2: on your industry or your market. I have definitely worked
Speaker 2: at some places where two people of two different seniorities
Speaker 2: are both internally revered the same because even the person
Speaker 2: on a lower seniority level still carries the roles and
Speaker 2: the responsibilities of someone more senior. That's totally fine if
Speaker 2: that's your jam. But I look at it that if
Speaker 2: I'm doing the work of someone who's two four pay
Speaker 2: bands that hire the me baby, where's the pay banding?
Speaker 2: Is the band in my pocket? It's not bandit, it's
Speaker 2: that it's actually very discombobulating. So depending where you're at,
Speaker 2: you could actually negotiate your title. Like this is something
Speaker 2: that a lot of people, I think don't think about
Speaker 2: when you're getting that initial job offer, that your title
Speaker 2: can also sometimes be negotiated. And I think that this
Speaker 2: is a really important distinction because if you are on
Speaker 2: the road map to become I don't know, one day,
Speaker 2: you know you want to be a CMO Chief marketing officer,
Speaker 2: Let's say you want to make sure that resume reflects
Speaker 2: the right job titles that are going to help you
Speaker 2: get there.
Speaker 1: So titles do matter.
Speaker 2: For certain industries. So that's another thing that I think
Speaker 2: job switching can do. Another thing is you get the
Speaker 2: opportunity to grow in a new work environment. This is
Speaker 2: super important, I think, particularly if you come from like
Speaker 2: a toxic work atmosphere, which, by.
Speaker 1: The way, seamless plug.
Speaker 2: We already have an episode all around that, which if
Speaker 2: you skipped that episode to listen to this one, baby
Speaker 2: go back.
Speaker 1: But seriously, like, sometimes.
Speaker 2: Some people just need a new change of environment, Like
Speaker 2: just the idea of being in a new position, a
Speaker 2: new work environment, it just breathes like a breath of
Speaker 2: fresh air.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's also different types of work environments you can,
Speaker 3: Like if you work in a more fast paced, startup
Speaker 3: kind of environment and you want something a little bit
Speaker 3: more stable, if stability even exists in this world, who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I love what you've said because that it's
Speaker 1: so true.
Speaker 2: Or let's say, for instance, you've been working at a
Speaker 2: company where you've been in the office, maybe you realize
Speaker 2: because of different things, because of personal life boundaries, maybe
Speaker 2: you say, okay, you know what I want to take
Speaker 2: on a fully remote job, and so like, there are
Speaker 2: just different things that you can do that you can
Speaker 2: evaluate in job searching. And the last thing I will
Speaker 2: say is that this is also a unique opportunity for
Speaker 2: you to diversify your experience and your resume. Although I
Speaker 2: totally understand and I support the idea of longevity at
Speaker 2: a company because you can kind of tell this long
Speaker 2: term story.
Speaker 1: And I agree, right, I do agree.
Speaker 2: I also think that what makes me some time a
Speaker 2: really strong candidate is when they've seen, oh, Jamae has
Speaker 2: worked at this company, this company, this company.
Speaker 1: She's versatile because adaptable.
Speaker 5: I am.
Speaker 1: I've gone into all of these. Let me think about it.
Speaker 2: Why would you not want to hire someone who's worked
Speaker 2: for all your competitors. I mean, I'm not talking trade secrets,
Speaker 2: but I mean, like, if you already know that this
Speaker 2: person has unique skills that they've been able to bring
Speaker 2: and thrive in at your competitor, why would they not
Speaker 2: do the same thing for you.
Speaker 1: You already like performed in the big lage.
Speaker 2: I've proven my case. Put me on the main stage.
Speaker 2: I'm Coachella baby.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: I was gonna go with a baseball reference and then
Speaker 1: you would so.
Speaker 2: I mean, coach Coachella Baseball something like that. God, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's me throwing my chance an opportunity. But seriously, job
Speaker 2: switching I think can be very beneficial if you think
Speaker 2: about the long term strategy.
Speaker 1: But where there's a pro there is usually a convent.
Speaker 3: Here comes in Gianna, here comes I mean usually half
Speaker 3: class full.
Speaker 1: But for today's purposes, We got to talk about the cons.
Speaker 1: You can be the antagonist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so today I am the villain to tell you
Speaker 3: that there are cons when you job hop too frequently.
Speaker 3: Like I said before, job popping is more normalized than
Speaker 3: it was in the past, but it's still going to
Speaker 3: raise eyebrows and kind of spark some skepticism with employers,
Speaker 3: especially if you know you're changing jobs like every year
Speaker 3: or less than right, then it has somebody thinking, hm,
Speaker 3: why so do you just need to be prepared to
Speaker 3: address that in an interview.
Speaker 2: I will definitely say though, that I think that that's
Speaker 2: way too soon to lead unless you are in a
Speaker 2: toxic work atmosphere or you just kind of can't get
Speaker 2: the grounding. But if you're just like, actually, I've already
Speaker 2: learned everything I need to in the nine months I'm
Speaker 2: going to be gone now that you have not given
Speaker 2: yourself adequate time to really grow in your role.
Speaker 3: That's a really good call out. So, Jamai, you've made
Speaker 3: a pretty good case for job switching.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I say so myself.
Speaker 3: But I think it's time we bring in Tim to
Speaker 3: make the case for growing your career at a company
Speaker 3: so he can.
Speaker 1: Chair some of the pros.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Ooh, it's gonna be like the
Speaker 2: Gianna versus Tim versus Jimmy faceof.
Speaker 1: I think I'm Switzerland lucky.
Speaker 3: Leaving your first real adult job can feel like a
Speaker 3: huge decision, but it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be.
Speaker 3: Coming up, we're talking with creative executive Tim Cisano about
Speaker 3: how to find opportunities to keep growing at your current company.
Speaker 2: Today's conversation is all around figuring out should I stay
Speaker 2: in the job or should I go on and try
Speaker 2: something new? And the truth of the matter is, I
Speaker 2: don't really know if it's as black and white as
Speaker 2: a lot of people say. Thankfully, gian and I have
Speaker 2: a guest in today's hot chain who's going to also
Speaker 2: share their opinion. Gee, who do we bring on this week?
Speaker 3: I am so excited to bring on Tim Cisano. He's
Speaker 3: a creative EGZECH who has held roles at ABC Sports, ESPN,
Speaker 3: and most recently left his decade long tenure as a
Speaker 3: VP at Charter Communications, which is the telecommunications and mass
Speaker 3: media company. He's also a content creator, well known for
Speaker 3: his tiktoks. I love his videos, by the way, that
Speaker 3: document his life and encourage people to slow down and
Speaker 3: enjoy the simple, even mundane parts of everyday life, which
Speaker 3: is a reminder I think all of us need sometimes.
Speaker 3: He's a strong believer that there's a lot of opportunity
Speaker 3: to grow at the same company, especially as someone who's
Speaker 3: spent at least five years at each of the companies
Speaker 3: he's worked for throughout his career. So we're excited for
Speaker 3: him to share his insights with all of you guys.
Speaker 4: Welcome Tim, Thank you for having me. Wow, how exciting.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2: We love talking to particularly creative creatives over here.
Speaker 1: I love learning about people's journey.
Speaker 2: So let's just start there, like, can you go us
Speaker 2: a short summary of what your career journey so far
Speaker 2: has been.
Speaker 4: Started out part time everything, finally got my foot in
Speaker 4: that door with ABC Sports full time. There's a graphics producer,
Speaker 4: assistant producer, production associate for five years. Then I got
Speaker 4: married and had a panic attack that I can't travel
Speaker 4: with thirty six weeks a year and have a solid,
Speaker 4: healthy relationship. So figured out that I really needed to
Speaker 4: get a desk job on the business side and kind
Speaker 4: of finagled my way into ESPN's marketing team. Did that
Speaker 4: for seven years with ESPN, worked on some of their
Speaker 4: biggest properties and some of the biggest brands on the planet,
Speaker 4: and then I got this really interesting offer to go
Speaker 4: to what was Time Warner Cable to reinvent the way
Speaker 4: that they were offering creative services to small businesses, which
Speaker 4: then became Charter Communications after a merger and acquisition situation.
Speaker 4: Did that for the past eleven years, started making tiktoks
Speaker 4: off the side of my desk. Shockingly, they blew up,
Speaker 4: and now I'm a full time stay at home dad
Speaker 4: that's doing a bit of writing and creating and consulting
Speaker 4: and coaching and trying to figure it out all over again.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: So, Tim, You've been at a few companies throughout your career,
Speaker 3: and at each of those companies you were there for
Speaker 3: at least five years. So I'm wondering what went into
Speaker 3: your decision to stay as long as you did.
Speaker 4: The decision to stay throughout was because there was nothing
Speaker 4: else that drew me away during the question of when
Speaker 4: is it time to go is to me, it's such
Speaker 4: an interesting one because you should always have your eyes
Speaker 4: on what is out there. So I think everybody should
Speaker 4: always have their head on a swivel. But at the
Speaker 4: same time, you have to make the most of the
Speaker 4: opportunity that's in front of you. There is no decision
Speaker 4: to make until you have that offer on the table
Speaker 4: or you're truly in a position where like, I got
Speaker 4: to get out of here. But it's almost like, you know,
Speaker 4: you get into a house and it's like, well, when
Speaker 4: do I move? Will you move? When you find another house?
Speaker 4: So how do you find another house? Will you start looking?
Speaker 4: It's like these micro steps along the way, So focus
Speaker 4: on micro because I also think it's so much easier
Speaker 4: to digest. When you get so obsessed with like that
Speaker 4: macro decision that's at the core of your question, then
Speaker 4: it can become jarring and overwhelming. All you gotta worry
Speaker 4: about is do I do a decent job, keep my
Speaker 4: resume up to date? Am I generally aware of what
Speaker 4: else is out there? You know? Just if you can
Speaker 4: do those things, I think your brain is going to
Speaker 4: breathe a little easier, and then it'll the right time
Speaker 4: will come when the right time comes, versus you feeling like,
Speaker 4: oh my goodness, there's like some sort of hard pivot
Speaker 4: moment here, and now I'm going to jump or no,
Speaker 4: I've got to figure something out, like just chip away
Speaker 4: at it and amazing things will happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think sometimes people like just make
Speaker 3: a rash decision because it's you know, you feel like
Speaker 3: I need to get out and I got to do
Speaker 3: it now, and then you realize, Okay, the grass was
Speaker 3: not greener. I maybe you should have stayed and really
Speaker 3: hold over this decision longer.
Speaker 4: Totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I want to ask because this is actually
Speaker 2: something that offline, Gianna and I talk about a lot,
Speaker 2: particularly around like when it's time to go and now
Speaker 2: there are you know, people who out there who say,
Speaker 2: you know, around year three or four of your tenure
Speaker 2: at a company is when it's time to start looking
Speaker 2: for a new job. What do you see as the
Speaker 2: value of working at the same company for longer periods
Speaker 2: of time?
Speaker 4: Relationships, long term, significant trust that can be built both
Speaker 4: with coworkers and people that are outside of your day
Speaker 4: to day plus unless you feel like you're being truly, truly,
Speaker 4: truly pigeonholed. And I think that a lot of people
Speaker 4: don't give themselves enough credit for what they could actually
Speaker 4: do in their current role to expand They feel like, oh,
Speaker 4: I need this other place to give me additional responsibilities
Speaker 4: or opportunities so that I can grow, which to me
Speaker 4: is like, well wait a minute, you really I don't
Speaker 4: think you could do that for yourself right now? Like
Speaker 4: you really don't think you could go find some work
Speaker 4: dessert as I would call it, in another section of
Speaker 4: the company, to learn and to grow. So I would say,
Speaker 4: have you really maximized what's at your current disposal? Are
Speaker 4: there places where you could use your biggest, weirdest idea
Speaker 4: and use the resources and the network that you currently
Speaker 4: have to see if that could come to life. So
Speaker 4: don't overlook the opportunities and the resources that you have
Speaker 4: directly in front of you just because you feel like
Speaker 4: there's some sort of time marker where you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: begs must be cooked now. So I got to go yeah,
Speaker 4: O wait.
Speaker 3: And we have a really fun segment on the show
Speaker 3: called Deer Work Bestie where we answer questions from our listeners.
Speaker 3: So this week's comes from Joey in California.
Speaker 5: I've been in my current job for a little over
Speaker 5: a year now, and this is my first job out
Speaker 5: of university. I really enjoy this role and I don't
Speaker 5: anticipate leaving anytime soon, but I also don't want to
Speaker 5: become too completely and close myself off to opportunities this
Speaker 5: early in my career. How do you know when it's
Speaker 5: time to leave your first job or company? And once
Speaker 5: you know this, how do you approach this conversation, especially
Speaker 5: with the manager you really care about and don't want
Speaker 5: to disappoints.
Speaker 4: I mean easy couple answers from my perspective. One, you
Speaker 4: know when it's time to leave when you have another
Speaker 4: offer on the table. Right, you're literally deciding between two
Speaker 4: things that are sitting on your desk versus that kind
Speaker 4: of stair step approach we discussed earlier. So Joey, always
Speaker 4: have your head on the swivel. Know it's out there,
Speaker 4: and it's okay to know what's out there. Then you'll
Speaker 4: come to a point where you're like, Wow, this is
Speaker 4: an amazing decision that I have to contemplate. And if
Speaker 4: you're in a good environment, a good boss will be
Speaker 4: okay with that. In fact, they'll be stoked, truly be
Speaker 4: like wow, good for you. Good bosses should be in
Speaker 4: a position and they should be efforting towards putting their
Speaker 4: people in places where they could get poached where where
Speaker 4: they know that this is a very attractive talent for X,
Speaker 4: Y or Z purpose and it's inevitable.
Speaker 3: And then how do you go about the conversation with
Speaker 3: your manager when you bring that up.
Speaker 4: I mean, my conversation with my manager was a you know,
Speaker 4: and this is literally somebody that just did this. It
Speaker 4: was it was different because I wasn't leaving for another job,
Speaker 4: but it was like, all right, it's it's time. I
Speaker 4: think for this specific question, it's very you want to
Speaker 4: be very straightforward. I need to talk to you. I
Speaker 4: have another offer. I'm really excited about this opportunity. It
Speaker 4: kind of crushes me to sit here and have this
Speaker 4: conversation with you directly, but at the same time, you know,
Speaker 4: this seems like it's really in my best interest, and
Speaker 4: I think that the smartest way to handle this is blank, right,
Speaker 4: And only this person can say what blank is if
Speaker 4: they're in a role where cool two weeks is fine enough.
Speaker 4: If they're say, hey, this is one of our competitive
Speaker 4: like you may want to keep that in mind. Like
Speaker 4: if you can just be self aware and cognizant of
Speaker 4: what the broader ramifications are and you're direct with the conversation.
Speaker 4: That's all you can do. There's like way too many
Speaker 4: nuances that there's in like one specific script. Be upfront,
Speaker 4: be honest, be kind, be self aware, and you'll be
Speaker 4: more than fine.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What I appreciate is that you saying, like you know,
Speaker 1: a good manager wants you to succeed, and not just succeed,
Speaker 1: but be so darn good that other people want you to.
Speaker 2: And I find that particularly when I talk to people
Speaker 2: who are younger than me, and I like, even like
Speaker 2: my mentees, they do have a lot of loyalty to
Speaker 2: their manager. And I'm not saying that that's a bad
Speaker 2: thing at all, but I always say, be weary that
Speaker 2: you don't give so much loyalty to someone that you
Speaker 2: stunt your own career, or that you feel like they
Speaker 2: want you to only stay under them. And I love
Speaker 2: that you have framed this idea around having a conversation
Speaker 2: with people, being open and figuring out how do we
Speaker 2: tackle this as a partnership, because I think, like, when
Speaker 2: you look at it like that, that is really the
Speaker 2: beginning steps of how you build your network that exists
Speaker 2: long after you move out of a certain role or
Speaker 2: a company.
Speaker 4: I wholeheartedly agree yeah, don't. You don't want to be
Speaker 4: in a position where you feel obligated to your and
Speaker 4: I felt that way. I'm the boss that I just
Speaker 4: walked away from, the best boss I ever had by
Speaker 4: a country mile. There was a lot of emotional attachment
Speaker 4: that went into that. But at the same time, too,
Speaker 4: I genuinely knew that he had my best interest at heart,
Speaker 4: and I knew that I kind of had to rip
Speaker 4: the band aid off, even though I literally took almost
Speaker 4: like a full year between all the different pieces that
Speaker 4: I moved to make sure that this was done the
Speaker 4: right way. But you know, I would ask yourself, like
Speaker 4: why do I feel that way? Do you actually have
Speaker 4: that kind of relationship or you just scared to have
Speaker 4: a direct conversation. There isn't a wrong answer, but if
Speaker 4: you can be honest with yourself, then it'll start to
Speaker 4: come and the more difficult conversations, especially ones like this
Speaker 4: that you're comfortable having. If your intentions are good and
Speaker 4: your efforts are solid, then you really can do no
Speaker 4: wrong and don't don't let yourself get pinned in the
Speaker 4: corner be or some people could just use it as
Speaker 4: an excuse. I like my manager too much, like be
Speaker 4: honest with yourself and be honest with your surroundings and
Speaker 4: you'll be fine.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love this idea of finding ways to grow within
Speaker 3: your role and kind of expand your job description, and
Speaker 3: like growing within a company doesn't always mean changing your
Speaker 3: title and moving up the ladder, but growing within your position.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, like, if you think about people who are
Speaker 3: just starting out and you want, let's say you have
Speaker 3: this great idea, getting influence or getting people to buy
Speaker 3: into that idea can be challenging, and especially when you
Speaker 3: know you're maybe the younger person on the team. So
Speaker 3: do you have any advice on getting that buy in
Speaker 3: and like pitching yourself as the person to take on
Speaker 3: that project or you know, the person to have the
Speaker 3: idea for whatever initiative it might be.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 4: And I love that question so so much because I've
Speaker 4: I do call this like how to bring your weirdest
Speaker 4: idea to life, because I've had a couple of those
Speaker 4: where I just had this big, random, weird idea and
Speaker 4: I remember being like, I'm so sure of this, and
Speaker 4: then I would bring it into somebody's office to be
Speaker 4: like that's great, and then they would go right back
Speaker 4: to work. When you think about going into somebody else's
Speaker 4: office or having a big idea, you think like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is so great, it's going to naturally pull people in.
Speaker 4: It's actually going to push people away for a couple
Speaker 4: of different reasons. One, they have their own stuff to
Speaker 4: worry about. So if you walk in you got to
Speaker 4: like this big game changing idea, you're basically saying, here's
Speaker 4: the thought that I have that's going to mean more
Speaker 4: work for you. Aren't you excited? Aren't you excited to
Speaker 4: make me look great? Now?
Speaker 1: I'm so right, it's not.
Speaker 4: Going to like. It's not unless you're saying, this is
Speaker 4: something that's going to change about my role and you're like,
Speaker 4: I've got the whole thing, don't worry about it. But like,
Speaker 4: most of those big ideas are going to change a
Speaker 4: business or have some sort of impact on the company
Speaker 4: or going to have cascade effects. So the steps to
Speaker 4: bringing it to life are one being okay with the
Speaker 4: fact that it's going to take a long time. Probably
Speaker 4: you're probably going to hear a lot of nose and
Speaker 4: you're probably gonn get a lot of people that are
Speaker 4: like that, even the ones that are really excited for you,
Speaker 4: and they think it's amazing, but like, I'm not here
Speaker 4: to help other people fulfill their dreams with all their
Speaker 4: respective here to do my job. If you first you
Speaker 4: have to describe it really well in a simple way.
Speaker 4: What is the idea? Can you describe it as simply
Speaker 4: as possible, and can you also explain why? Why? What
Speaker 4: does this impact the business? What is the upside? And
Speaker 4: then you have to be ready to have everybody poke
Speaker 4: a thousand holes in it, because that's what you need.
Speaker 4: If you don't have all the holes poked in it,
Speaker 4: like there's a distinct possibility. With all the respect especially
Speaker 4: to people that are out of the gate. You might
Speaker 4: have seen something. You might have walked in the door
Speaker 4: and immediately been like, here is another place for us
Speaker 4: to double our business. Great, but that takes another four
Speaker 4: million dollars in investments, and it takes X, Y and z.
Speaker 4: But if you're willing to take the time to document
Speaker 4: it to even get people to poke holes in how
Speaker 4: you documented the idea, to shop it around to get
Speaker 4: a bunch of nos, to then put some yeses to
Speaker 4: those nos. If you can explain it in a simple
Speaker 4: way the impact you could have on the business, and
Speaker 4: then you're willing to go do the legwork, you can
Speaker 4: start to create your own kind of stair step to
Speaker 4: get there and then be okay at the end if
Speaker 4: you don't get credit, because especially if you're earlier in
Speaker 4: your career, chances are if you have something that mega
Speaker 4: blows up, the president of the company, the president of
Speaker 4: the department, whomever is going to be the one that
Speaker 4: gets a sound by in the New York Times, speaking
Speaker 4: from experience, not the senior manager that was over the
Speaker 4: side of the marketing team that nobody had any idea existed.
Speaker 4: But it pays off. It pays off big time.
Speaker 2: I think what I appreciate the most about what you
Speaker 2: just outlined is this idea of like removing ego out
Speaker 2: of it, because it's so easy for anyone at any
Speaker 2: point in your career to attach your ego to a project.
Speaker 2: You care about this idea. You want to put this
Speaker 2: baby out into the world. You want the credit, and
Speaker 2: even though all of those things are valid, if you
Speaker 2: really want the idea to succeed, sometimes you understand that
Speaker 2: you are going to have to build community. Sometimes that
Speaker 2: means you are going to have to get more no's
Speaker 2: than yes is. And I just really appreciate that because
Speaker 2: that is definitely something I had to learn, both the
Speaker 2: easy and the hard way when I first started out,
Speaker 2: and I just think more people should embrace this idea
Speaker 2: of removing the ego.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: I just want to quickly add too, that I've had
Speaker 3: to learn poking holes in something doesn't mean somebody just
Speaker 3: like wants to get you and catch you without the answer. Really,
Speaker 3: they're just curious and want to help you get to
Speaker 3: a stronger outcome. But it's really hard to kind of
Speaker 3: realize that in the moment because you feel like, oh,
Speaker 3: if I don't have the answer, then they're going to
Speaker 3: think I'm stupid or I'm dumb. But really it's okay
Speaker 3: to say, hey, you know I don't have the answer.
Speaker 3: I'll come back to you and really work with that
Speaker 3: person to kind of, like, you know, just get to
Speaker 3: where you need to be totally.
Speaker 1: So we talked about ways.
Speaker 3: To grow within your role, especially if you're early in
Speaker 3: your career, and you mentioned being proactive in that, like
Speaker 3: raising your hand for projects, coming up with new ideas.
Speaker 3: But sometimes you either you know, get pushed back or
Speaker 3: have trouble you know, identifying those opportunities. Because the scope
Speaker 3: of your work can be kind of siloed when you're
Speaker 3: starting out. So I'm wondering, as somebody who's been in
Speaker 3: management and executive positions, how can people early in their
Speaker 3: career work with their managers to identify those opportunities for
Speaker 3: growth within the company.
Speaker 4: I think you have to do it on your own
Speaker 4: to a certain extent. A lot of this you're going
Speaker 4: to find out by trying and failing, So there isn't
Speaker 4: a bad place to start. I think as long as
Speaker 4: you can do you have a thought on the business,
Speaker 4: and why are you cool to make the first key strokes?
Speaker 4: I would say, don't ask your manager like you know,
Speaker 4: certainly you could ask your manager like, hey, I would
Speaker 4: like to take a more responsibility, et cetera, but don't
Speaker 4: like that. The cheat code is your manager's probably got
Speaker 4: enough on their plate where if they had additional work
Speaker 4: for you, they're going to give you additional work. You
Speaker 4: should be okay to say here's some suggestions and have
Speaker 4: them be like I never thought of that, right, And
Speaker 4: then it's going to be on you on both sides
Speaker 4: of that, And that you also have to be okay
Speaker 4: with the fact that your first five ideas could be wrong,
Speaker 4: or they could be pointed in different directions just because
Speaker 4: you don't know yet, and that's totally fine. That's growing
Speaker 4: and learning. So just don't stop with the new ideas,
Speaker 4: don't stop thinking about how you can grow yourself from
Speaker 4: your skill set, because it's all for you too. You
Speaker 4: get people can get confused, They're like, oh, well, this
Speaker 4: is just for the company's benefit, it's for yours.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think what's I'm taking away from this conversation And
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it because it's always a great reminder.
Speaker 2: Is like, we are all innovators, and sometimes sometimes you
Speaker 2: have a great idea, it's just the wrong time. More like,
Speaker 2: not all of the day different variables are in place,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't make the idea not a good idea.
Speaker 2: So in the meantime, until all the variables fall into place,
Speaker 2: you can continue to pressure tests and gather information and
Speaker 2: research and throw ideas. And I just like, I love
Speaker 2: this idea that we can all be pressure testers of
Speaker 2: our own ideas, but we also can invite others to
Speaker 2: do the same. But this idea that you have to
Speaker 2: keep putting one foot in front of the other. You
Speaker 2: have to just keep going even when you get those rejections,
Speaker 2: I think it's just a great lesson for us all
Speaker 2: to remember and again removing ego out of it. Well, Tim,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us. I know, me
Speaker 2: and Gianna we've taken in so much just from you,
Speaker 2: hearing you about your journey and even just like the
Speaker 2: temperature checks that you've given yourself over the years to
Speaker 2: figure out when was it time to move on? And
Speaker 2: what I love the most is that like you have
Speaker 2: not been prescriptive whatsoever and saying like you have to
Speaker 2: do it like this or not. And I think that's
Speaker 2: going to resonate so much with our besties. So thank
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on the podcast. We appreciate you, Tim.
Speaker 3: Before we let you go, where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 4: They can find me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all the places.
Speaker 4: Look up my name, you'll find my stuff and hopefully
Speaker 4: it helps. Thank you, Tim, I appreciate you both. Thank
Speaker 4: you so much. This is a really fun conversation.
Speaker 2: Tim gave a lot of great advice. And if you
Speaker 2: want to stay at your company, that's awesome. Now if
Speaker 2: you want to leave, that's cool too. What's important is
Speaker 2: that you feel like you're growing no matter where you
Speaker 2: are in your career. After the break, I.
Speaker 1: Love a good holiday party, but can they be cringe?
Speaker 1: That's next? Okay, So Tim, give me a lot to
Speaker 1: think about. I kind of want to know where are
Speaker 1: you still Switzerland? Do we need an offline? I think
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 3: I grow your career at a company as long as
Speaker 3: you have opportunities to grow in your role and also
Speaker 3: potentially elsewhere within the company.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I really love when he said that, because we've said
Speaker 2: it a couple times on the podcast. Now about like,
Speaker 2: have you really maxed out in your role? And I think,
Speaker 2: like so often everybody myself included, you always think, of
Speaker 2: course I have. But the truth of the matter is
Speaker 2: you probably have opportunities to upscale. And I really appreciated
Speaker 2: how he mentioned, like, if you are interested in doing
Speaker 2: something else, even if it's not necessarily in your job description,
Speaker 2: do you need to go to an entirely different company
Speaker 2: to do that? Or can you raise your hand for
Speaker 2: internal projects? A good manager is also going to help
Speaker 2: you figure out, Okay, how can this person continue to
Speaker 2: grow and up level themselves whilst at the company. So
Speaker 2: I really appreciated him saying that because I think we all,
Speaker 2: no matter where you are at in your career, can
Speaker 2: benefit from that. Yeah, but what do you think What
Speaker 2: was your takeaway?
Speaker 1: Frow was a good reminder. What I'm taking away is,
Speaker 1: you know, just like take a chill.
Speaker 3: Though you didn't say that, but that's what I'm taking away.
Speaker 3: It's like, we get so kind of caught up with
Speaker 3: these big macro decisions of like should I stay or
Speaker 3: should I leave? But when you kind of zoom in,
Speaker 3: there's so many micro steps and micro decisions.
Speaker 1: That get you there. It's not this big like life
Speaker 1: or death situation.
Speaker 3: If you have the privilege of making the decision, I
Speaker 3: should say, right, like, sometimes you have to leave for
Speaker 3: whatever reason and maybe you don't have a lot of
Speaker 3: say in it. But I think if you do have
Speaker 3: the privilege to make the decision of staying or leaving,
Speaker 3: you don't need to get so caught up in like
Speaker 3: this Blacker White situation.
Speaker 1: Take your time.
Speaker 3: He said it was like a year lead up until
Speaker 3: he actually left right his last job. So you know,
Speaker 3: take small steps and you know, take that informational interview,
Speaker 3: have that networking call, exhaust all your options within that
Speaker 3: current role before you kind of have that other job
Speaker 3: offer on the table and then can make the decision.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: I think what's been so illuminating about this conversation is
Speaker 2: that whether you choose to stay and you want to
Speaker 2: grow in your career like at a company, or you
Speaker 2: choose to leave and explore other options, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, it's your decision. And what I love
Speaker 2: is that careers are just as unique as the person
Speaker 2: who's rocking it. I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: like we can only give you, guys like tips and
Speaker 2: things to think about, but you have to do what
Speaker 2: is right for you. I'm still siding on the side
Speaker 2: of a hop, skip and a jump, but I might
Speaker 2: linger a little bit.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you're sounding a little bit like Switzerland.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm that sweet, but but you
Speaker 2: know what is sweet?
Speaker 1: Cringe or cool?
Speaker 2: You guys, this is where we discuss all things workplace
Speaker 2: culture and trends and we get to determine whether they
Speaker 2: are cool or cringe. Gihan and I are doing something
Speaker 2: a little different this week, Gianna, what do we talk.
Speaker 3: About special edition of cooler Cringe. We're talking about the
Speaker 3: holiday office party.
Speaker 1: Happy holidays.
Speaker 3: In honor of the holidays, we're gonna be doing a
Speaker 3: lightning round version of Cringe or Cool discussing the holiday
Speaker 3: office party. So we're going to go through a list
Speaker 3: of things related to holiday office parties and determine whether
Speaker 3: they're cringe or cool.
Speaker 1: I'm first.
Speaker 3: Okay, guys, we don't even know what these are. Producer
Speaker 3: just handed us notes. So let's say I'm first. Okay,
Speaker 3: number one, having an open bar.
Speaker 2: I think it's cool because who doesn't want to, you know,
Speaker 2: get a little comfortable.
Speaker 1: You know, you want to be able to like rocking around, Yeah,
Speaker 1: rocking around what you drink? Yeah, But I will say
Speaker 1: it's kind of cringe because some people don't know how
Speaker 1: to hold their Nika. Yeah, I love a holiday cocktail.
Speaker 1: But be foreale that you got to go back to
Speaker 1: work because you guys don't want to wake up the
Speaker 1: next day. And I know some people have been there
Speaker 1: being like, what did I say to my boss? Or
Speaker 1: you wake up? And who's no, Okay, what's your school
Speaker 1: of cringe? I'm just saying, all right, so consensus cool
Speaker 1: could be cringe cool, but too much it's cringe? Yeah? Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're nine is talking about work at the party.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, here's my thing.
Speaker 3: Oh god, But like, honestly, as a socially anxious girl,
Speaker 3: like sometimes you need that to break the ice. You
Speaker 3: might be making small talk with people that are not
Speaker 3: on your immediate team. I know you're like literally throwing
Speaker 3: up at the idea of a small talk. I see
Speaker 3: that on your face. But like, just stay with me
Speaker 3: for a moment here, stay brave. I think fine.
Speaker 1: But like, I mean, you're at work, So yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about work. I think it's cool. Honestly, it's cool.
Speaker 1: Don't talk. Also, some people don't want to get too personal.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I really do we disagree? O, don't talk
Speaker 2: to me Like, no, if I'm here to party, I'm
Speaker 2: not here to talk about work.
Speaker 1: Okay. I've never been to like a party party like Holly.
Speaker 2: No, I don't even like to go to like team
Speaker 2: happy hours and us talk about work. It's not happy anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess at that point we might as well clock in.
Speaker 2: You want me to print some things off while we're
Speaker 2: at it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think we're being like, oh, did
Speaker 3: you make updates to that project? I think it just
Speaker 3: like oh, what do you do at the company?
Speaker 1: No, you know what? You can't they can't. You can
Speaker 1: ask me that all my day holiday party, I'm saying,
Speaker 1: bar away from jamatic.
Speaker 5: Why are we.
Speaker 1: Talking about this now? What does it matter what I do?
Speaker 5: Get?
Speaker 1: Let's let's drink. So you want somebody, You're gonna be
Speaker 1: the one at the open bar. I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: out on the floor. I don't have time to be
Speaker 1: talking about roles and responsibility.
Speaker 3: I've never been to a holiday party at work with
Speaker 3: the dance floor, so if there was one, I want
Speaker 3: to be talking about work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, our holiday parties are a little bit more on
Speaker 2: the corporate side. I've been in some more risque situations.
Speaker 1: We'll offline about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, last one giving useless gifts in a white
Speaker 3: elephant gift exchange to be funny.
Speaker 1: Absolutely cringe. First of all, I hate bad gifts.
Speaker 3: You know what this is cringe because I'm the type
Speaker 3: of person I feel like you're also like this, Like
Speaker 3: I'm thoughtful about the gift. I'm spending so much time
Speaker 3: figuring out like what is gender neutral? What is going
Speaker 3: to be like under the limit? What can somebody actually use?
Speaker 3: And then I'd be the one to get like a
Speaker 3: yo yo and be like, seriously, what am I doing with.
Speaker 1: This yo yo? And I know you didn't spend twenty
Speaker 1: five dollars on the yo yo.
Speaker 2: That's my villain origin story, because how dare you have
Speaker 2: me go up here to Macy's Harold Square with the
Speaker 2: beautiful lights and I just spent all this money on
Speaker 2: a nice gift for you. Got them to do the
Speaker 2: premiere packaging package, the candles, you know how they do
Speaker 2: the cue, the little the little wrap.
Speaker 1: Oh my, you even a little bit above budget, Like
Speaker 1: I spent extra money for you to give you the
Speaker 1: experience of a life. Here's the worst part.
Speaker 3: You have to open it live and if you guys
Speaker 3: don't know, like, I cannot hide a facial expression to
Speaker 3: save my life. So when I open that yo yo,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, what's.
Speaker 1: The problem my face? I can I can lie on
Speaker 1: my acting taps in heavy, but I'm dying inside.
Speaker 3: And that stops people from particip beating next year one
Speaker 3: thousand percent And then guess what next year is like?
Speaker 1: Two people doing it? Then like just exchange each other seriously,
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I mean honestly, I think we can just
Speaker 1: mix the whole gift giving things. Let's just do like
Speaker 1: gift cards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just a card a card. Okay, so we agree, cringe,
Speaker 3: very cringe. Okay, so we agreed on to divide it
Speaker 3: on one pretty solid.
Speaker 1: I think I think we're doing all things.
Speaker 2: Had we ended together, I was getting a little We
Speaker 2: can talk more at the holiday party, yes, but not
Speaker 2: about work. Noted well, I hope that you guys have
Speaker 2: also enjoyed this when we would definitely love to know
Speaker 2: which do you guys agree with?
Speaker 1: Are these topics cool? Cringe? Also let us know other ones,
Speaker 1: like holiday parties in general cooler cringe, Like, are you
Speaker 1: guys going? Is that the thing?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: Let's the vibe. Let's the vibe. I love a holiday party,
Speaker 1: me too. I'm gonna go. Yeah, we can wear ugly sweaters.
Speaker 1: Let's talk off I'm not sweaters anyways.
Speaker 3: All right, guys, let us know what you think you
Speaker 3: can let us know in the newsletter this week, we'll
Speaker 3: be discussing the topics there. Make sure you're following the newsletter.
Speaker 3: It's called Let's Talk Offline. A link will be in
Speaker 3: the show description and also in my LinkedIn bio. You
Speaker 3: can also share posts on LinkedIn and tag Jamay and
Speaker 3: I letting us know your takeaways from this week's episode
Speaker 3: and your takes uncle or cringe.
Speaker 2: Also, we have to give a warm holiday thank you
Speaker 2: to Joey for setting in your question. You have just
Speaker 2: given Gean and I the holiday gift of the spirit,
Speaker 2: the spirit back, a spirit to keep going through the
Speaker 2: end of the year. Thank you Joey for your contribution
Speaker 2: and your amazing gift. You all too can also give
Speaker 2: us gifts of questions. Okay, information on how to do
Speaker 2: that is in the show description.
Speaker 3: Speaking of gifts, please rate and review the show and
Speaker 3: give us a follow so you get notified each week
Speaker 3: when episode drops.
Speaker 1: I'd be the greatest gift of it. I'd be the
Speaker 1: greatest gift.
Speaker 3: That's the only thing on our wish list is here
Speaker 3: maybe for you, but I will circle back the designer
Speaker 3: bag centers. All right, guys, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: listening this week. Before you go, remember we've always got
Speaker 3: your back, so if something comes up.
Speaker 1: Let's Talk Offline. I'm Jonna PRDUENTI and I'm Jamie Jackson Gadsden,
Speaker 1: Stay Thriving.
Speaker 3: Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
Speaker 3: producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Sarah Dealey. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
Speaker 3: and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 2: Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour.
Speaker 2: We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm and
Speaker 2: Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Speaker 2: Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head
Speaker 2: of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
Speaker 2: chief of LinkedIn