WEBVTT - Should I Stay, Or Should I Go? with Content Creator Timm Chiusano 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.240 LinkedIn News. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.680 Although I totally understand and I support the idea of 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.440 longevity at a company because you can kind of tell 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:13.440 this long term story. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:14.120 And I agree. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.000 I also think that what makes me sometimes a really 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.239 strong candidate is when they've seen, oh, jam has worked 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.320 at this company, this company, this company, versatile, she's versatile. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:25.240 Let me think about it. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.639 Why would you not want to hire someone who's worked 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.960 for all your competitors. I mean, I'm not talking trade secrets, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.159 but I mean, like, if you already know that this 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.160 person has unique skills that they've been able to bring 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.720 and thrive in at your competitor, why would they. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:40.640 Not do the same thing for you? 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.480 From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts, this is Let's 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.400 Talk offline, a show about what it takes to thrive 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.199 in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:53.560 sanity or asleep. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:55.320 I'm Gianna Predenti. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.160 And I'm Jama Jackson Gadson. So you've worked hard to 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.800 land that first job. I mean, you sent in all 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.479 those job applications, you did all those informational interviews, You've 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.160 put in the work, and now you're at a job 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.360 where you feel pretty comfortable I mean, honestly, it feels good. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.760 A few years in, though, you start to think, hmm, 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.760 should I stay at this company or's it time to 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:20.200 move on? 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.319 In other words, should you climb lie up that corporate 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.360 ladder or job up? It can be a tough decision, 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:28.800 especially when you've really grown to love your first job. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:31.319 So if you're thinking about making a change, we're going 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.440 to help you figure out what those next career moves 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:34.240 might look like for you. 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.679 Today. Let's chat. Let's do it. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:42.600 So. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.200 A lot of my friends have changed jobs or at 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.600 least considered it in the three years since we graduated, 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.040 and I feel like at one point, every time I 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.360 was going on LinkedIn, it was another person I knew 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.880 from school announcing a job update, and I was like, 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:00.720 should I be looking for jobs? 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:00.920 Like? 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.880 You know, it really got me thinking like should I 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.720 be considering moving on too? Or is it okay to 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.040 want to grow my career at LinkedIn? And these are 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.560 the questions that keep me up at night. You know, 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.680 I really could see myself staying at this company for 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.840 a while because I feel like there's so many internal 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.280 opportunities that I've like yet to even explore. So that's 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.520 where I'm at but let's take a look at the 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.320 larger job movement trends we've been seeing. For gen z ers, 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.040 the trend has been to job hop. So if you 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.280 guys are on career TikTok aka career talk, you've probably 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.200 heard about the benefits of switching jobs every one to 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.320 two years, and research shows that frequent movement really does 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.160 boost pay in the long run. I feel like you've 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.960 talked about this in your own job hopping journey, and 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.239 in the past decade or so, job hopping that trend 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.519 has really become popular in the job market. And that's 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.000 when people you know, hop quite literally from job to 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.359 job in a short period of time. And it's been 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:09.400 particularly popular among gen z and millennial workers. The reason 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.880 why is because one, it allows you to diversify your 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.000 experience and also just figure out what you want to do. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.720 Like a lot of people change jobs early on because 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.799 they're like, ooh, this is not it and I want 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.400 to find something different. And because so many people, not 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.520 even just gen z rs, have been changing jobs so 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.399 frequently over the past you know, few years, over the pandemic, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.120 job hopping isn't frowned upon like it once was. Like 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.000 it used to really raise red flags to hiring managers, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.000 but now not so much. But I think in general, 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.800 the guidance is still to stay in a job for 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.280 at least two years, and then at that three to 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.080 four year mark is when you kind of get the 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.880 itch and when you need to start thinking about your 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.760 future at the company. And that's where I'm at. You know, 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.280 I'm three years in, so I'm like, hmm. But in 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.400 the past few years, the job market has been slowing 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.240 down and there's been a lot of economic uncertainty, so 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.400 now more workers are staying put because you know, it's 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.240 harder to find a job these days. But I think 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.600 the decision whether to you know, stick at your company 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.320 or find your next play, as we say here at LinkedIn, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.920 is still really relevant. So in just a bit, we're 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.760 bringing on creative exec and content creator Tim Cusano, who 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.599 you guys definitely know on TikTok and if you don't, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.040 check out his videos. But he has stayed at every 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.240 company in his career for five plus years, so he's 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.600 going to come on and share a bit about his experience. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.800 But before he does, Tom, your career has not been linear. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.040 Girl, She's curvy, she's windy. My hips don't know. 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.880 And you've had multiple jobs and worked at a bunch 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.400 of different companies throughout your career in the past decade alone, 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.040 So what's your experience been like with job switching? 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.279 Yeah, I mean you know, this is what I will say. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.960 First of all, I think it behooves fancy word, behooves, 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.919 particularly early career professionals to job because like you said earlier, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.960 you don't know what you don't know, and when you 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.000 are going from maybe a company to another, or even 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.559 changing industries or markets, that is how you start asking 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.320 yourself the question what do I like? What do I 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.520 want out of an employer? What do I want out 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:18.279 of a career? 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:18.920 Right? 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.159 Because a lot of times you're thinking about what is 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.159 the job right in front of me? But how is 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.560 that building into the portfolio of your life? And so 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.880 I am so thankful particularly that when I was in 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:33.520 my twenties I just hopped. Now I hopped methodically. I 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.680 didn't just leave a job, but that I was mindful. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.560 I wasn't always the year, but I was mindful. I 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.480 always tried to think of, you know, what was the 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.480 next opportunity did I max out in my job? Had 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.800 I max out in the roles and responsibilities or was 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.040 I just being very underpaid and not acknowledged for the work. 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:53.880 And if I felt like I could go out and 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.680 find something else that was going to hit whatever I 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.919 needed at that time, whether it was more money, more responsibilities, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.320 better work life balance, I was going to go all 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.560 in on it. I am so thankful that I did, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.000 because I think job hopping or job switching has a 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.039 lot of benefits. I mean, first of all, you have 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.360 the possible wage increases. I've talked about this before. There 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.640 was a series of like five or six years where 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.200 I literally almost doubled my salary every time I took 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.880 on a new job. Yeah, because you need to get 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.159 in there, you need to learn what you need to learn. 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.440 You need to build that portfolio. And if you can 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.040 show you the next person that you have the skill sets, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.400 why not go for the maximum. Another thing are title bumps. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.960 Now this is I think a little bit more dependent 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.080 on your industry or your market. I have definitely worked 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.320 at some places where two people of two different seniorities 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.440 are both internally revered the same because even the person 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.000 on a lower seniority level still carries the roles and 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.400 the responsibilities of someone more senior. That's totally fine if 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.400 that's your jam. But I look at it that if 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.400 I'm doing the work of someone who's two four pay 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.720 bands that hire the me baby, where's the pay banding? 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.600 Is the band in my pocket? It's not bandit, it's 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.000 that it's actually very discombobulating. So depending where you're at, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.880 you could actually negotiate your title. Like this is something 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.520 that a lot of people, I think don't think about 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.560 when you're getting that initial job offer, that your title 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.840 can also sometimes be negotiated. And I think that this 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.480 is a really important distinction because if you are on 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.480 the road map to become I don't know, one day, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.800 you know you want to be a CMO Chief marketing officer, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.640 Let's say you want to make sure that resume reflects 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.440 the right job titles that are going to help you 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:33.920 get there. 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:35.720 So titles do matter. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.120 For certain industries. So that's another thing that I think 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.520 job switching can do. Another thing is you get the 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.280 opportunity to grow in a new work environment. This is 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.960 super important, I think, particularly if you come from like 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.880 a toxic work atmosphere, which, by. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.800 The way, seamless plug. 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.400 We already have an episode all around that, which if 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.760 you skipped that episode to listen to this one, baby 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:56.280 go back. 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.000 But seriously, like, sometimes. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.320 Some people just need a new change of environment, Like 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.080 just the idea of being in a new position, a 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.640 new work environment, it just breathes like a breath of 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:08.120 fresh air. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.680 Yeah, And there's also different types of work environments you can, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.800 Like if you work in a more fast paced, startup 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.600 kind of environment and you want something a little bit 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.360 more stable, if stability even exists in this world, who knows. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.960 Yeah, No, I love what you've said because that it's 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:22.480 so true. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.760 Or let's say, for instance, you've been working at a 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.280 company where you've been in the office, maybe you realize 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:32.559 because of different things, because of personal life boundaries, maybe 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:33.960 you say, okay, you know what I want to take 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.200 on a fully remote job, and so like, there are 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:37.680 just different things that you can do that you can 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.480 evaluate in job searching. And the last thing I will 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.560 say is that this is also a unique opportunity for 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:48.160 you to diversify your experience and your resume. Although I 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.280 totally understand and I support the idea of longevity at 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.520 a company because you can kind of tell this long 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:55.400 term story. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:56.880 And I agree, right, I do agree. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.400 I also think that what makes me some time a 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.640 really strong candidate is when they've seen, oh, Jamae has 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.920 worked at this company, this company, this company. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.040 She's versatile because adaptable. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:08.600 I am. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.800 I've gone into all of these. Let me think about it. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.160 Why would you not want to hire someone who's worked 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.679 for all your competitors. I mean, I'm not talking trade secrets, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.880 but I mean, like, if you already know that this 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.880 person has unique skills that they've been able to bring 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.360 and thrive in at your competitor, why would they not 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:26.480 do the same thing for you. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.839 You already like performed in the big lage. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.920 I've proven my case. Put me on the main stage. 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:33.559 I'm Coachella baby. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:34.160 Wow. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.320 I was gonna go with a baseball reference and then 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:37.160 you would so. 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:45.640 I mean, coach Coachella Baseball something like that. God, oh yeah, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.920 that's me throwing my chance an opportunity. But seriously, job 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.480 switching I think can be very beneficial if you think 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:54.880 about the long term strategy. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.040 But where there's a pro there is usually a convent. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.720 Here comes in Gianna, here comes I mean usually half 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:03.360 class full. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.760 But for today's purposes, We got to talk about the cons. 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:06.640 You can be the antagonist. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.679 Yeah, so today I am the villain to tell you 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.280 that there are cons when you job hop too frequently. 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.560 Like I said before, job popping is more normalized than 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.040 it was in the past, but it's still going to 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:24.280 raise eyebrows and kind of spark some skepticism with employers, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:29.120 especially if you know you're changing jobs like every year 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.199 or less than right, then it has somebody thinking, hm, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.120 why so do you just need to be prepared to 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.280 address that in an interview. 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.240 I will definitely say though, that I think that that's 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.200 way too soon to lead unless you are in a 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.559 toxic work atmosphere or you just kind of can't get 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.760 the grounding. But if you're just like, actually, I've already 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.679 learned everything I need to in the nine months I'm 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.760 going to be gone now that you have not given 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.880 yourself adequate time to really grow in your role. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.600 That's a really good call out. So, Jamai, you've made 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.200 a pretty good case for job switching. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:00.800 Thank you. I say so myself. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.520 But I think it's time we bring in Tim to 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.080 make the case for growing your career at a company 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:07.880 so he can. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:08.720 Chair some of the pros. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:10.520 What do you think, Ooh, it's gonna be like the 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.600 Gianna versus Tim versus Jimmy faceof. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.000 I think I'm Switzerland lucky. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.520 Leaving your first real adult job can feel like a 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.240 huge decision, but it. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:24.920 Doesn't have to be. 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.360 Coming up, we're talking with creative executive Tim Cisano about 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:39.560 how to find opportunities to keep growing at your current company. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.720 Today's conversation is all around figuring out should I stay 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.200 in the job or should I go on and try 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.600 something new? And the truth of the matter is, I 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.439 don't really know if it's as black and white as 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.640 a lot of people say. Thankfully, gian and I have 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.840 a guest in today's hot chain who's going to also 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.120 share their opinion. Gee, who do we bring on this week? 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.320 I am so excited to bring on Tim Cisano. He's 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.440 a creative EGZECH who has held roles at ABC Sports, ESPN, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.040 and most recently left his decade long tenure as a 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.920 VP at Charter Communications, which is the telecommunications and mass 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.120 media company. He's also a content creator, well known for 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.960 his tiktoks. I love his videos, by the way, that 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.040 document his life and encourage people to slow down and 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.199 enjoy the simple, even mundane parts of everyday life, which 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.520 is a reminder I think all of us need sometimes. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.599 He's a strong believer that there's a lot of opportunity 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.160 to grow at the same company, especially as someone who's 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.280 spent at least five years at each of the companies 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.960 he's worked for throughout his career. So we're excited for 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.200 him to share his insights with all of you guys. 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.120 Welcome Tim, Thank you for having me. Wow, how exciting. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:51.280 Thank you for having me today. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.920 We love talking to particularly creative creatives over here. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.559 I love learning about people's journey. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.800 So let's just start there, like, can you go us 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.280 a short summary of what your career journey so far 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:02.880 has been. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.000 Started out part time everything, finally got my foot in 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.520 that door with ABC Sports full time. There's a graphics producer, 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:15.640 assistant producer, production associate for five years. Then I got 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.800 married and had a panic attack that I can't travel 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.000 with thirty six weeks a year and have a solid, 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.880 healthy relationship. So figured out that I really needed to 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.199 get a desk job on the business side and kind 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.800 of finagled my way into ESPN's marketing team. Did that 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.720 for seven years with ESPN, worked on some of their 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.440 biggest properties and some of the biggest brands on the planet, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.360 and then I got this really interesting offer to go 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.320 to what was Time Warner Cable to reinvent the way 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.320 that they were offering creative services to small businesses, which 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.000 then became Charter Communications after a merger and acquisition situation. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.199 Did that for the past eleven years, started making tiktoks 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.120 off the side of my desk. Shockingly, they blew up, 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.920 and now I'm a full time stay at home dad 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.000 that's doing a bit of writing and creating and consulting 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.680 and coaching and trying to figure it out all over again. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:12.640 I love that. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.280 So, Tim, You've been at a few companies throughout your career, 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.680 and at each of those companies you were there for 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.920 at least five years. So I'm wondering what went into 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.080 your decision to stay as long as you did. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.680 The decision to stay throughout was because there was nothing 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:32.920 else that drew me away during the question of when 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.240 is it time to go is to me, it's such 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.960 an interesting one because you should always have your eyes 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.640 on what is out there. So I think everybody should 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.080 always have their head on a swivel. But at the 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:48.920 same time, you have to make the most of the 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.880 opportunity that's in front of you. There is no decision 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.040 to make until you have that offer on the table 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.160 or you're truly in a position where like, I got 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.280 to get out of here. But it's almost like, you know, 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.440 you get into a house and it's like, well, when 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.280 do I move? Will you move? When you find another house? 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.360 So how do you find another house? Will you start looking? 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.840 It's like these micro steps along the way, So focus 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.880 on micro because I also think it's so much easier 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.960 to digest. When you get so obsessed with like that 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.520 macro decision that's at the core of your question, then 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.840 it can become jarring and overwhelming. All you gotta worry 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.280 about is do I do a decent job, keep my 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.400 resume up to date? Am I generally aware of what 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.480 else is out there? You know? Just if you can 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.480 do those things, I think your brain is going to 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.760 breathe a little easier, and then it'll the right time 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.400 will come when the right time comes, versus you feeling like, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.000 oh my goodness, there's like some sort of hard pivot 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.160 moment here, and now I'm going to jump or no, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.480 I've got to figure something out, like just chip away 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.840 at it and amazing things will happen. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.560 Yeah, you know, I think sometimes people like just make 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.280 a rash decision because it's you know, you feel like 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:55.840 I need to get out and I got to do 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.960 it now, and then you realize, Okay, the grass was 0:15:57.960 --> 0:15:59.880 not greener. I maybe you should have stayed and really 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.440 hold over this decision longer. 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:02.080 Totally. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.800 Yeah, So I want to ask because this is actually 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.760 something that offline, Gianna and I talk about a lot, 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.400 particularly around like when it's time to go and now 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.440 there are you know, people who out there who say, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.960 you know, around year three or four of your tenure 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.880 at a company is when it's time to start looking 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.200 for a new job. What do you see as the 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.880 value of working at the same company for longer periods 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:26.280 of time? 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:33.320 Relationships, long term, significant trust that can be built both 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.760 with coworkers and people that are outside of your day 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.480 to day plus unless you feel like you're being truly, truly, 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.320 truly pigeonholed. And I think that a lot of people 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.360 don't give themselves enough credit for what they could actually 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.360 do in their current role to expand They feel like, oh, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.280 I need this other place to give me additional responsibilities 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.240 or opportunities so that I can grow, which to me 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.240 is like, well wait a minute, you really I don't 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.360 think you could do that for yourself right now? Like 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.280 you really don't think you could go find some work 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.480 dessert as I would call it, in another section of 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.040 the company, to learn and to grow. So I would say, 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.520 have you really maximized what's at your current disposal? Are 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.560 there places where you could use your biggest, weirdest idea 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.560 and use the resources and the network that you currently 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.000 have to see if that could come to life. So 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.879 don't overlook the opportunities and the resources that you have 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.679 directly in front of you just because you feel like 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.680 there's some sort of time marker where you're like, oh, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.800 begs must be cooked now. So I got to go yeah, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:37.720 O wait. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:39.560 And we have a really fun segment on the show 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.320 called Deer Work Bestie where we answer questions from our listeners. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.760 So this week's comes from Joey in California. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.920 I've been in my current job for a little over 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:51.960 a year now, and this is my first job out 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.320 of university. I really enjoy this role and I don't 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.760 anticipate leaving anytime soon, but I also don't want to 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.840 become too completely and close myself off to opportunities this 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.680 early in my career. How do you know when it's 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.440 time to leave your first job or company? And once 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.120 you know this, how do you approach this conversation, especially 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.680 with the manager you really care about and don't want 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.720 to disappoints. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.159 I mean easy couple answers from my perspective. One, you 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:21.919 know when it's time to leave when you have another 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.080 offer on the table. Right, you're literally deciding between two 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.360 things that are sitting on your desk versus that kind 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.320 of stair step approach we discussed earlier. So Joey, always 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.560 have your head on the swivel. Know it's out there, 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.000 and it's okay to know what's out there. Then you'll 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.720 come to a point where you're like, Wow, this is 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.280 an amazing decision that I have to contemplate. And if 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.320 you're in a good environment, a good boss will be 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.719 okay with that. In fact, they'll be stoked, truly be 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.439 like wow, good for you. Good bosses should be in 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.160 a position and they should be efforting towards putting their 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.240 people in places where they could get poached where where 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.760 they know that this is a very attractive talent for X, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.080 Y or Z purpose and it's inevitable. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.760 And then how do you go about the conversation with 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:12.440 your manager when you bring that up. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.800 I mean, my conversation with my manager was a you know, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.240 and this is literally somebody that just did this. It 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.320 was it was different because I wasn't leaving for another job, 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.119 but it was like, all right, it's it's time. I 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.320 think for this specific question, it's very you want to 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.119