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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikay a daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle. Recording from the Brooklyn Bunker where frankly,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to end up sucking staying right the folks.

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Speaker 1: I come to you just hours after the shooting, the

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Speaker 1: mass shooting that took place in Brooklyn, and you know,

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Speaker 1: my emotions, as our many New Yorkers, are very raw.

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Speaker 1: And today I will get into, you know, a longer

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Speaker 1: in depth conversation with our friend doctor Jonathan Metzel to

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Speaker 1: talk about what is at stake in an upcoming Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court UH case that is going to be ruling UH

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Speaker 1: in New York about whether or not local governance over

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Speaker 1: gun regulation impedes upon the Second Amendment, and if, like

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Speaker 1: the First Amendment, there is no nuance, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: with the First Amendment, we have nuance as it pertains

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Speaker 1: to acts of violence, as it pertains to hate speech. Right.

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Speaker 1: But what proponents right, supporters of the Second Amendment believe

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Speaker 1: that there should be no infringement whatsoever right their rights,

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Speaker 1: their liberty. And after yet another mass shooting that for

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Speaker 1: me just felt way too close to home in the

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Speaker 1: borough that I live in, I can't imagine this city

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Speaker 1: that is populated with eight million plus people to have

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Speaker 1: every one be able to have a gun and concealed

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Speaker 1: at that. I take the subway right, as most fucking

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers do on a regular basis. And yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: all used to seeing a lot of shit on subways,

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Speaker 1: not the terror that people witnessed today, Not the terror

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Speaker 1: of you know, a high time of commute and traffic

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Speaker 1: when children are on the subway, right, Like, for people

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Speaker 1: who don't live in cities, you have to understand that, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, rush hour traffic isn't just about people trying

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Speaker 1: to get adults going back and forth to work in cities, right,

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Speaker 1: it is about also the subways being filled with kids

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Speaker 1: that are taking the train to school. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you that on a personal note. You know,

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Speaker 1: I knew somebody whose young son was on the train,

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Speaker 1: right and who it was shaken and terrified and thank god. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but like, are we supposed to just allow this kind

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Speaker 1: of terror to be normal? Like have we gotten to

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Speaker 1: a place where just you know, we're all just living

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Speaker 1: in this perpetual state of dread and panic and anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and that the only way to assuage that is to

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Speaker 1: allow everyone to be able to just walk around locked

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Speaker 1: and loaded. Like, I again, how the fuck does that

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Speaker 1: make sense? It really doesn't. And so I sit here today,

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Speaker 1: you know, reeling, reeling from just my emotional state of

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Speaker 1: being that there is no place to be safe in

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Speaker 1: this country. You know, let alone, Let me not, you know,

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Speaker 1: let alone adding in race and orientation and gender identity

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Speaker 1: and class and all of these things like let alone

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Speaker 1: adding in all of those other layers that make American

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Speaker 1: society in general unsafe, right for black people, people of color,

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Speaker 1: right for black trans women, for you know, queer people, right,

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Speaker 1: like for immigrants and folks that are undocumented. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: my mother, my sister right now is traveling. She's on holiday.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my mother is always like, you know,

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Speaker 1: very nervous when my sister and I are traveling, even

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Speaker 1: though my sister lives abroad, but whenever we're like traveling

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Speaker 1: more and moving outside of our space, she gets really nervous.

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Speaker 1: And I said to my mother, I was just like,

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Speaker 1: where do you think is more are unsafe than the

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Speaker 1: United States? Like, let's just be really honest. We're the

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Speaker 1: only you know, industrialized fucking nation that has regular mass shootings. Right,

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Speaker 1: We're the only place where it is common, right for

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Speaker 1: there to be a shooting in a grocery store, a

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Speaker 1: movie theater, a synagogue, a mosque, a church. Right. We're

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Speaker 1: the only country that it is normal for your kids

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Speaker 1: to learn fire drills, but more importantly, active shooter drills. Right,

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Speaker 1: We're the only country that is like this. So when

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Speaker 1: you take those things into account, and all of the

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Speaker 1: ways in which these people who are proponents of the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment have have had their their own righteousness, their

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Speaker 1: liberty infringe on everyone else's safety, and just like we've

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Speaker 1: had to contort and just deal with that. But in

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Speaker 1: a city of eight million people, when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: lifting a weapons ban that is in place because of

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Speaker 1: just how densely populated we are, you're not only posing

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Speaker 1: a threat to you know, mind and spirit and all

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Speaker 1: of these things. You're posting an economic threat, which I

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Speaker 1: will get into in my conversation with Jonathan, because for

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Speaker 1: those callous people that care about nothing more than money,

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Speaker 1: what happens when people no longer feel safe to take

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Speaker 1: the subway to go to work, and to send their

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Speaker 1: kids to school, and to go shopping and all of

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Speaker 1: those things guess what that we saw it with COVID.

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Speaker 1: They pack up their ship and those that have the

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Speaker 1: means and the privilege of mobility do so right, which

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Speaker 1: leaves a city filled with what exactly you know, not

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Speaker 1: the tax base that has people give a fuck? I

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's the it's the regression and the

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Speaker 1: devolving that is become our norm that to me is

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Speaker 1: scaring the shit out of me on a regular basis. Today, Friends,

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Speaker 1: I am absolutely shook, and I am shook in a

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Speaker 1: way that I, you know, realize. The only time that

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Speaker 1: we didn't have mass shooting since Columbine was quarantine. So

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Speaker 1: we didn't remove guns because they oversold right alongside toilet

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Speaker 1: paper and hand sanitizer in twenty twenty, but we removed

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Speaker 1: the masses. So if there are no masses, you can't

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Speaker 1: have a mass shooting. People were indoors. What does that

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Speaker 1: fucking tell you about our society and how absolutely insane

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Speaker 1: that is. I don't know about you, but, like I,

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Speaker 1: freedom to me doesn't look like living a life filled

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Speaker 1: with fear, dread, and terror. That's not what freedom looks

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Speaker 1: like to me. And so how do we figure out

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Speaker 1: in this heightened state of just God Jesus, everything being bad.

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Speaker 1: How do we find our way out? How do we

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Speaker 1: find like, what does the other side of this even

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Speaker 1: look like? Because these days, I'm starting to find myself

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Speaker 1: at a loss for words, which is terrible because my

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Speaker 1: job is words. But I'm running out of how to

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Speaker 1: make sense out of absolute fucking nonsense, because where we

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Speaker 1: are right now in America is nonsensical. I you know,

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Speaker 1: I see this shooting. We had a shooting in Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: we had a shooting in New York, with a shooting

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, Like it's just, you know, the one thing

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Speaker 1: that came back once everything opened up, Ware's shootings. I

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Speaker 1: don't know where we go from here, but I know

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Speaker 1: that we have to go someplace. We have to do

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Speaker 1: something right. And with the Supreme Court decision coming down

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Speaker 1: in just the handful of weeks, yeah, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be inside this bunker longer than I had anticipated or wanted.

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Speaker 1: Coming up next, friends, my conversation with our in house doctor,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks. As always, I am always excited

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Speaker 1: to have our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel join

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Speaker 1: us on wikaf to talk about a myriad of things,

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Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes, Jonathan, I think that we're going

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Speaker 1: to get on here and have like a conversation that's good,

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Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about, Oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: things that don't feel so dire and don't feel like

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Speaker 1: our entire lives depend on it. But today is not

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Speaker 1: that day. Yesterday, in New York, as many people know,

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Speaker 1: there was a mass shooting on a subway in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: New York, and it was a little too close to home.

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Speaker 1: Not in an area that I live in, but in

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Speaker 1: the borough that I live in, and it's a little

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Speaker 1: too close to home, given as how I just started

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Speaker 1: going back on the subway following you know, the omicron spike. Jonathan, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know that right now you're at Vanderbilt and so

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Speaker 1: you're not in New York. But when news broke, you know, what,

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Speaker 1: how are you feeling? What was going through you know,

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Speaker 1: your mind? I think a couple of things. At first,

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Speaker 1: we're having this conversation before all the details are out,

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Speaker 1: and so I would say that, of course, this is horrific.

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Speaker 1: This is the kind of thing I study. I've seen

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Speaker 1: it up close many times. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: details are going to be because as we record this conversation,

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Speaker 1: they're just are there just are some really weird, you

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Speaker 1: know parts of this. You know, this guy had a

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Speaker 1: bag of smoke bombs and firecrackers, he put on a mask.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to know what category at this

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Speaker 1: moment of this conversation to put this in. Is it

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Speaker 1: a mass shooting, is it an act of terrorism? Is

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Speaker 1: it some other kind of dispute? And I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's like usually with a mass shooting, it's like a

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Speaker 1: white guy with an a R fifteen or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to be the case here. Again,

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Speaker 1: we were We're in a vacuum, and so I guess

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Speaker 1: the first point to kind of make is that we

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Speaker 1: don't know what category this is. I still don't know.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's kind of using it as a warshock test, all

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Speaker 1: the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world. They're talking about

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Speaker 1: how this would never have happened if every single person

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Speaker 1: had a gun in their underpants and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and everybody on the subway had a gun, and so

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Speaker 1: the gun crowd is making this a pro gun thing.

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Speaker 1: Other people, I guess like me, are saying this is

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Speaker 1: actually why you need fewer guns and search your gun laws.

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Speaker 1: Because as horrible as this is, it happened. The part

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Speaker 1: of what it is, it's rare, right, It happens a

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Speaker 1: lot more frequently in another places. And so I just

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Speaker 1: I think that the question of what this is is

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Speaker 1: still TBD. And and I say that with a word

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Speaker 1: of caution, because again, when something like this happens, we

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Speaker 1: put it into these categories. But until we know a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about the case and catch the guy,

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure, to be honest, how to how

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Speaker 1: to think about this one? There's something cleared. Let me

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this because I, you know I

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Speaker 1: and I want to appreciate you for kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: pulling us back from making any snap you know, decisions

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Speaker 1: or commentary as this is unfolding. But you know, as

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Speaker 1: you're working through the list of and and as as

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Speaker 1: the governor and you know, the country is working through

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Speaker 1: you know what was this? Um? Was it terrorism? Was

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Speaker 1: it a mass shooting? Was it you know, was it premeditated?

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Speaker 1: Where you know what all of these pieces were. I guess,

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Speaker 1: like where I find myself right now is does it

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Speaker 1: fucking matter? Like does it like in all like in

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Speaker 1: all honesty like doesn't matter. I think that the fact

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Speaker 1: that things like this can happen and it is the

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Speaker 1: norm for it to happen in the United States, not

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Speaker 1: the norm for it to happen frankly in New York

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Speaker 1: City to your point, because of the regulations that we have. Yes,

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Speaker 1: people get shot in New York all the time, but

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest with you, it is usually targeted.

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Speaker 1: It's usually like gang related. It isn't, you know, just

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Speaker 1: a you know, mass situation. And so I wonder does

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Speaker 1: categorizing it matter, Like is it is it just a

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Speaker 1: way for us as humans to put something in a

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Speaker 1: box so that we can better understand and deal with it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm finding that the way that we continue to

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Speaker 1: process what has become the norm in America is part

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Speaker 1: of the fucking problem. Well, I think there are there

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Speaker 1: are three parts to that answer, I guess, and they're

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Speaker 1: all probably not complimentary. I mean number one is again

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Speaker 1: like this guy had a gas mask and apparently a

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Speaker 1: favorite MPTA vest. Like there's something about this that just

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Speaker 1: seems I mean, it's it's almost beyond premeditated. There's something

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Speaker 1: there's something that just doesn't for me quite add up

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Speaker 1: about this story and then you know, the the there's something,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some weird twist to this. I

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Speaker 1: have no knowledge at all. I'm I'm I'll be back

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn tomorrow, but I don't know. But I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying that some part of this, I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's almost beyond premeditated. It's like planned in a in

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Speaker 1: a in a kind of mass murdery or terrorismy kind

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Speaker 1: of way. And so I have no idea. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's, it's it's. I think that the word that

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Speaker 1: keeps coming up in my mind a sinister. Right there

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Speaker 1: is something that is very sinister about the witness accounts

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Speaker 1: that are coming out that seems so deliberate, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one of the other things that we

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Speaker 1: heard is because the gas masks part, to me was

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Speaker 1: probably the most like shocking. Um is the fact that

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Speaker 1: this is again, folks, just according to the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: and we are discussing this, um, just hours after this

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Speaker 1: has happened. Um, So what according to the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: they're saying that they're, you know, this person arrived to

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Speaker 1: the city via like a U haul or something like

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Speaker 1: that like that so again it's it's like, who is

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Speaker 1: this person that that as of as of this conversation,

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Speaker 1: there's still a hunt underway, um, but that there is

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Speaker 1: something sinister, go ahead, Yeah, I mean, so that's number

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Speaker 1: one is like just the pattern of the pattern of

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing, um. And that's why I think

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Speaker 1: it's important just to think about the category and not

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Speaker 1: that not. I mean, we certainly live with a lot

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Speaker 1: of trauma right now, and this is a moment where

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Speaker 1: like life expectancy is falling in our country and around

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Speaker 1: the world. We've got a crazy motherfucker the other side

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Speaker 1: of the world using chemical weapons on people. We've got

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Speaker 1: a pandemic coming back. So it's kind of an urgent

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Speaker 1: moment to you know, think about just the value of

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Speaker 1: life right now, and and and but but I do

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Speaker 1: think that again, I just I just want to so

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Speaker 1: that that point number one is just there are aspects

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Speaker 1: of this that I think make it seem like it

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Speaker 1: could fit in anywhere. That's that's just that's just number one.

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Speaker 1: Number two. Number two is, of course, we are seeing

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Speaker 1: dramatic rise in gun violence right now, like it's out

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Speaker 1: of control. Um. And so this comes on the heels

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Speaker 1: of you know, a mass shooting in Sacramento, and a

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Speaker 1: horribly bloody weekend across the country, including here in Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: And so just the out of controlness of gun violence

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Speaker 1: right now feels like it just feels unstoppable in a way.

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Speaker 1: And so all these idiots who are like everybody just

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Speaker 1: needs a gun, like, I just don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: going to help. But there's no there's no answer right

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Speaker 1: now because more background checks aren't going to help either,

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Speaker 1: And so it just feels like this is in a

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Speaker 1: way the kind of I guess thought. Number two for

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Speaker 1: me is this is a kind of coming home to

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Speaker 1: roost of our pandemic response in a way where we had, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, millions upon millions upon millions of guns sold,

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Speaker 1: right and so the more guns there are, the more

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Speaker 1: shootings they are going to be. It's pretty linear. And

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Speaker 1: so number two is just this is the reckoning that

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Speaker 1: we've seen even in twenty twenty one by data and

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Speaker 1: CDC data, there's just a lot more gun violence in

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Speaker 1: our country right now, and there are a lot more

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Speaker 1: guns in our country in our country, So I think

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Speaker 1: number two is just the almost contagious nature of gun

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Speaker 1: violence right now is really is really scary no matter

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Speaker 1: what this turned out to, because that's number two and

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Speaker 1: then number three, as you were talking about before, as

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of research on this case

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Speaker 1: that's coming up in the Supreme Court that is going

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Speaker 1: to basically be the fantasy of Marjorie Taylor Green, which

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Speaker 1: is that we open up New York to anybody who

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Speaker 1: wants to carry a gun. Do it, we can do it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to note that gun crime in

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Speaker 1: New York, even with all these headlines, is considerably lower

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Speaker 1: than it is in just about any other dense urban

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Speaker 1: area across this country because of the effectiveness of New

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Speaker 1: York gun laws. But part of the reason I think

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Speaker 1: we're seeing all these New York Post kind of headlines

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Speaker 1: about you know, crime out of control and all that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I mean, the crime is bad now,

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Speaker 1: but it's also studying the state for the argument that

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is going to make, which is that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: everybody in New York needs a gun because crimes so

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Speaker 1: out of control. It's setting the stage for the gun

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Speaker 1: market that I think they think is going to boom,

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Speaker 1: and so something like this kind of fits right into it.

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Speaker 1: And so I just think it's hard to see this

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Speaker 1: story outside the context of the case that's coming down

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Speaker 1: the pike with the Supreme Court, where they're basically just

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Speaker 1: going to be saying if everybody in you know, they're

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Speaker 1: going to overturn New York's every they're going to overturn

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Speaker 1: New York's centuries old gun laws. And so I just

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Speaker 1: think that's that's an important part of this. Also. I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm just trying to figure out in my head

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Speaker 1: right now, like how we got here? Do you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying that. I just it's like I'm I

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Speaker 1: feel myself more and more having these momentary out of

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Speaker 1: body experiences that you see like in a sitcom or

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Speaker 1: a drama where they're just like freeze frame, how did

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Speaker 1: we get here? And that's the moment I'm having. You know,

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Speaker 1: I remember us speaking Jonathan in twenty twenty. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've been doing kids now a long time. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: I remember as having this conversation in twenty twenty and

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Speaker 1: you saying, you know guns, and you said it in

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Speaker 1: your Boston Review article, guns are flying off the shelf

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Speaker 1: alongside hand sanitizer and toilet paper, Like I don't understand,

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Speaker 1: like it's a pandemic, it's a virus, Like are you

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Speaker 1: going to shoot it? Like? I you know, what the

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Speaker 1: hell is happening? And so, you know, I just want

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Speaker 1: you to remind us of what in all the conversations

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Speaker 1: that you've been having as you write your next book,

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Speaker 1: what was the rationale that people had around we have

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Speaker 1: a global health pandemic. I don't have hand sanitizer, We're

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Speaker 1: being told not to touch shit. I'm washing my cereal boxes,

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Speaker 1: don't have toilet paper. But I need a gun? What

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Speaker 1: was like? I think that for me as a non

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Speaker 1: gun owner, but somebody who has begun actually because of

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Speaker 1: the craziness that we've been living in. What you gonna say,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get a gun? No? No, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to get a gun? Are you insane? No? But I understand.

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Speaker 1: I begin I have begun to understand people who never

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Speaker 1: wanted a gun, but then like, are now thinking about it?

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Speaker 1: And so what was the rationale that people have given

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Speaker 1: or are giving to you if they're not these readily?

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Speaker 1: You know, I've I've been building an artillery in my backyard.

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Speaker 1: Like what are they saying? Well, initially, when I when

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Speaker 1: I was interviewing people in twenty twenty about this. The

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Speaker 1: gun owning crowd was all saying, Um, anarchy is coming

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have to fight my neighbor for toilet

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Speaker 1: paper like that was their first thing was like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't shoot the virus. It was there's going to be

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Speaker 1: chaos and I need to defend my stuff. Um. That

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Speaker 1: was certainly the first round of it. Then it was

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Speaker 1: the government is locking us down and government tyranny, and

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Speaker 1: so there were all those you know, just to use

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Speaker 1: a medical word, there were all those honkeys who stormed

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Speaker 1: the capital m in the in states across the country. Um,

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Speaker 1: and so uh, we have rail totally. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: if we're going down, I'm going down with Okay, yay. Um.

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Speaker 1: So then there then there was the I need my

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Speaker 1: R fifteen to go protest, get Gretchen Whitmire and you know,

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Speaker 1: or Wisconsin or whatever. So there was the whole performance

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Speaker 1: of that. Then the NRA started marketing guns to black Americans,

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Speaker 1: saying the police aren't going to protect you, you need

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Speaker 1: to get a gun. So that was a massive boom

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Speaker 1: was black gunners, um who because they basically said you

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Speaker 1: might have to fight back. Against the cops, and the

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Speaker 1: cops won't mess with you view of a gun. So

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Speaker 1: we've just gone through different phases. I guarantee you that's

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Speaker 1: what's coming next is massive marketing to people in New

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Speaker 1: York saying somebody could kill you on the subway, go

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Speaker 1: buy a gun. So everything turns to these gun markets

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Speaker 1: and it's so predictable, but it's also effective because of

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Speaker 1: what they do is they just scare the shit out

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Speaker 1: of people against each other. But ultimately, what you're doing

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Speaker 1: when you arm society and scare the crap out of

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Speaker 1: people against each other as you're sowing the seeds for

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Speaker 1: some pretty bad shit, right, some pretty bad fratricytal shit.

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Speaker 1: And so so it's a tribal moment. It's a moment

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Speaker 1: of mistrust and guns guns fit right into that. It's

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Speaker 1: weird because like the minute the pandemic hit my I

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Speaker 1: mean I never I suck at this stuff, but one

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Speaker 1: of my finance people called and said, you got to

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Speaker 1: buy gunstocks. That's going to be the hottest stock and

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. Oh wow, And I'm like, yeah, I said,

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Speaker 1: do not tell me that, and do not tell anybody

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Speaker 1: you told me that. And we never had this conversation,

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Speaker 1: but it turned out gunstocks went up nine thousand percent

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Speaker 1: or something like that, and so um, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's a moment where there's a kind of a

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Speaker 1: breakdown of order and there's no answer. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: people I was interviewing the minute Ukraine happened, everybody's like,

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Speaker 1: this is what happens, We need to get guns. And

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Speaker 1: it's true, if you're in Ukraine you probably want a gun,

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Speaker 1: Like there are examples where people meet guns. But it's

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Speaker 1: just the logic goes much more toward a militarized arsenals

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Speaker 1: level of society. And so I just I guess you

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Speaker 1: can see. Is that the goal though, Jonathan, you think

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Speaker 1: it is the goal of the ground and I know

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Speaker 1: because you've talked about this before that the goal of

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Speaker 1: the NRA and gun rights you know, groups like them

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Speaker 1: is to make money, right, Like they're trying to bolster

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Speaker 1: their membership and sell as many guns and sell as

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Speaker 1: many bullets and all of the accoutrements thereof that go

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Speaker 1: along with this lifestyle, right, But is it is it

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Speaker 1: also outside of capitalism, which I know is difficult for

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Speaker 1: us to move outside of because it is literally everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Is it the goal to have a militarized state? Is

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Speaker 1: it the goal to turn neighbor against neighbor and for

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Speaker 1: us all to just live in perpetual fear? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny like the way that the way that guns

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Speaker 1: are marketed. Sometimes it's like it's the great equalizer, you know,

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Speaker 1: like nobody's going to mess with the over gun. The

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Speaker 1: police won't mess with the ever a gun. It will

402
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Speaker 1: level out the playing field. But you know, the government

403
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But it turns out the same inequities

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Speaker 1: that we have are actually exacerbated when there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of guns around. So actually more black people get

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Speaker 1: shot by police, and more white people commit guns suicide.

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Speaker 1: It's not like it it's not equalizing anything except for

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Speaker 1: it's just it's a kind of mistrust enhancer. So you

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Speaker 1: can hear my voice. The reason I'm being measured today

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Speaker 1: is because I'm scared for New York. Yeah, because people

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Speaker 1: are really nervous right now, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: dangerous moment. Because it's just a dangerous moment for New

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Speaker 1: York because people are afraid there's this Supreme Court case

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Speaker 1: coming that's going to open gun markets in New York.

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Speaker 1: And yet New York's a city that depends on population

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Speaker 1: density and people getting along with each other and even

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a small example, not to call out anybody,

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Speaker 1: but I'm on a softball team that plays all over

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Speaker 1: the city and for the first time in ten years,

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Speaker 1: my team did not. They canceled the game tonight because

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Speaker 1: no one wanted to take the subway to the game

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00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: we play in. I think it's like Jamaica or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And like it's never been a problem ever,

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Speaker 1: It's never been a big deal. But all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: so the minute this kind of fear takes hold, it

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Speaker 1: creates this kind of tribalization, white flight, anxiety, and plusit bias.

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Speaker 1: All those things go together and then you throw guns

428
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: in and it becomes a self perpetuating cycle. And so

429
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm afraid because like New York actually is a place

430
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: that works, because people kind of I mean, because we

431
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, let's just be clear, Like you know,

432
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: it's funny because I have always heard, and we've all

433
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: always heard like New York is like by people who

434
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: don't live here, right, that New York is unsafe. New

435
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: York City people they're mean and it's a dangerous place.

436
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: And I while yes, again there are there is absolute violence.

437
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: There's violence everywhere, but for the amount of people that

438
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: live in such a small piece of land like there

439
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: isn't that kind that level of consistent chaos. It isn't

440
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: the wild wild West here. And what happens, you know, again,

441
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: if you just want to make the economic argument right

442
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: for the city, what happens if you so, if your

443
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: team right is actually like a microcosm to how people

444
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: are thinking. If I want to if I need to

445
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: take the subway to school, or I've been sending my

446
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: kids to take it, because there were many kids that

447
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: were on that were on that train in Brooklyn because

448
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: it was high rush hour, and rush hour isn't just

449
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: adults going to work. It is children going to school.

450
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: That is how they get to school in New York City.

451
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: And so if you start to become fearful of any

452
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: of that kind of movement right there, the freedom of movement,

453
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: because you're expecting another horrific incident like this, then you're

454
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: going to flee. And it isn't just like it isn't

455
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: just white flight. It's people deciding that like I'm literally

456
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: daying in my three block radius right where I have

457
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: all the things that I need. I already work from home,

458
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: and so by virtue of that, you have an economy

459
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: that starts to shrink. So isn't there also like an

460
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: economic argument to make here? No, that's kind of the idea, right,

461
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: I mean, the minute businesses start leaving and tax base

462
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: starts leaving, and you know, Wall Street becomes Miami Crypto

463
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: Capitol and stuff like that. And I mean, you know,

464
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: part of the argument of dying of whiteness is like

465
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: red states are already fucked because they have these terrible policies.

466
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: So terrible policies aren't going to influence them very much,

467
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: but it would be horrible for a place like New York.

468
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: So I mean, I I just think that New York

469
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: really needs to unify against this right now. I think

470
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: it's a really important time for New York to come

471
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: together and to and to really think about what makes

472
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: New York great and what makes New York strong. It

473
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: is people who might not agree about many things even

474
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: but but New York works because of the kind of

475
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: layers of New York people inhabiting the same space of

476
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: a you know, shocklingly low level of crime compared to

477
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: other places of very diverse spaces across much of the city.

478
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: And so I would just say that, really, this is

479
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: a moment for New York to come together, and I hope,

480
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: I hope we have leadership to do it, because otherwise

481
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: there's some pretty there's some pretty dark clouds on the

482
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: horizon that I think are going to really be challenging. Well,

483
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: let's talk about that for a second, right, because the

484
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: Governor Huckel, right, came out and literally was in the streets,

485
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: came out, you know, another strongly worded statement. This ends, now,

486
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: this stops. Now, this isn't who New York is. Blah

487
00:31:54,120 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: blah blah. You have Mayor Eric Adams, who is in

488
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: the virtual space because he has contracted COVID and so

489
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: is not like out in the streets today. But he

490
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: is a proponent of we need more cops. As a

491
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: former cop, he is the one that is saying, well,

492
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, we need to put more cops on the

493
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 1: subway platforms. And those who remember New York in the

494
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: days of stop and frisk and consistent harassment of black

495
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: and brown men in particular, are saying, what are you

496
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: talking about you need more cops and you need more money.

497
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: You have one of the largest police budgets in the country,

498
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: So like, what, what do you think that the pushback

499
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: should be to those that are going to use this

500
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: moment of fear and rightful fear to say we need

501
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: more police, and we need and we need and they

502
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: need more money. I'm going to say something very unpopular now, God,

503
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: I think we need to come together and figure out

504
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: a common narrative for public safety. I think there needs

505
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: to be a model of what good and respectful policing

506
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: is right now. I don't think that the question of

507
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean, because the thing is if there, if they're

508
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: the crime narrative serves a purpose which is an ant

509
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: it's a it's a racist purpose, and it's an anti

510
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: New York purpose. Right the crime narrative is, therefore everybody

511
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: needs a gun, and therefore all you corporations move down

512
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: to Miami and let just let those guys have their

513
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: own crazy crime infested area. Like nobody nobody is served

514
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: by by having shooting or death or harassment or anything

515
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: like that. So I think there needs to be a

516
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of unity moment right now where where we kind

517
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: of talk really honestly about what public safety means. Um,

518
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: I think that the question of more or less police,

519
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: this is just me saying this is it. It's almost

520
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: in this context. I understand what you're saying about there,

521
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: believe me. But I think in this context it's a

522
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: hard it's a dangerous conversation to be having about more

523
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: or less police because less police is going to fit

524
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: into the more guns narrative. That's going to be almost

525
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: a given. I can tell you that's what happened in

526
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: every place I've studied. Kansas City used to be a

527
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: very divers city. The minute they happened, it was immediately

528
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: white flight, lower tax base, more guns, wall off certain areas.

529
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: Like I just don't think anybody wins in that narrative.

530
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: And so I think it's a time to get together

531
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: and say what is public safety and how can we

532
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: join across divides to try to do it in a

533
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: way that is different in a way, And so I think,

534
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, I just I think that I think again,

535
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: I just I'm wary of the more or less police

536
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: argument right now. Not to say there's not history right now,

537
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: but I just think that if we're having that debate,

538
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: it just creates that, it creates the opening for I mean,

539
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: there's just there're about to be a lot more guns

540
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: in New York. And and and so I think without communities

541
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: working together across divides, I think New York is really

542
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: going to be in for a lot of trouble. And

543
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: so I think, I mean, I like and here's the

544
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: thing is that, no, I get it right, um And

545
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: and I'm always on the fence of when is the

546
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: right time to have conversations that make people uncomfortable and

547
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: when is the right time for us to you know, say, like,

548
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: for instance, there's a manhunt right now, Why why is

549
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: why is there? What are one of the reasons for

550
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: the manhunt? And again we're we're recording this, you know,

551
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: just hours after the shooting has taken place in Brooklyn,

552
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: and so the shooter has not been apprehended at this time.

553
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: But the cameras were not working or broken in the subway. Right.

554
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: That goes back to infrastructure. Right, that goes back to

555
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: how like that isn't That doesn't have anything to do

556
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: with how many officers shod should not be on a

557
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: platform or in a train car. That has everything to

558
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: do with the basic functioning of a system if somebody

559
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: was robbed or raped or beaten or what have you, like,

560
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: there's no there is no surveillance that is happening, like

561
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying? Like? And the question

562
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: really it's so hard to There's two things I'm gonna

563
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go super meta on you about that point, right,

564
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: because on one hand, it do you is the you

565
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: beyond this case? Do you want more surveillance? That's question

566
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: number one, which is a complicated question. And then question

567
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: number two is why why is infrastructure failing? And so

568
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go super meta. What pays for infrastructure? Right?

569
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: Infrastructure is paid by tax income? And why is New

570
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: York struggling with tax income? Well, there are a lot

571
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: of reasons, but one is because the twenty seventeen GOP

572
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: tax bill made it impossible. It made it really costly

573
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: for businesses to do I mean, the corporations and wealthy

574
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: people suck in many ways, but they also pay for

575
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: a lot of the tax foundation of New York. And

576
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen tax bill, for example, made it really

577
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: costly for businesses to stay and do business in New York.

578
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,919
Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden they all started going

579
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: to Florida and Dallas and all these other kind of places,

580
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: and so part of the infrastructure issue, of course, it's

581
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: structural racism, one hundred percent, But it's also that just

582
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: New York has a huge financial deficit based on decisions

583
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: that have been made that have nothing to do with

584
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: this situation. I don't know if that impacted the camera

585
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: and the subway car, but I would say that if

586
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: you're going to invest in infrastructure, you need more tax

587
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: income in a way. And so it's it's hard, right,

588
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: it's it's a hard time to be thinking. But I

589
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: do I do think that we're seeing the downstream implications

590
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: of some I mean, again, there's always been you know,

591
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: we had the seventies and Guardian Angels and Son of Sam.

592
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: Like I feel like we're in New York. We've been

593
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: there before. But I would say that New York that

594
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: the infrastructure question is an important part of this. I

595
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: totally agree. But but you have to think, like why

596
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: why isn't there money for infrastructure, And certainly it's that

597
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: it goes to certain parts of the city not others,

598
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: and all these kind of things. But I also think

599
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: that New York. I mean independent of that subway car.

600
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: The Quney system is in huge financial problem right now.

601
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: Education systems, higher education systems that serve minoritized communities and

602
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: let them get degrees that then let them make money

603
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: and become taxpayers themselves, and things like that. Like all

604
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: these things are happening, and so the city, the financial

605
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: model of the city is it's just a it's a

606
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: hard moment, and it's a hard moment for a lot

607
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: of reasons. But one is that there were a lot

608
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: of upstream decisions that really impacted the tax base of

609
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: New York and just made it a lot cheaper for

610
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: the high tax paying entities to leave the state to

611
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: go to Dallas, US or Nashville. I mean, Nashville is

612
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: a is a is a massive you know, there's our

613
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: whole skyline is you know, cranes of businesses moving from

614
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: New York and stuff like that. And so I think,

615
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: you know, New York, New York. We need a new

616
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: unity moment in New York that encompasses this stuff. We

617
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: need to kind of redefine New York. And it's got

618
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: to be playing on the strength of New York and

619
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: the strength of New York is diversity and a lot

620
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: of people working towards the same. Yeah, Jonathan, you know,

621
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: I want to say that when we began our regular

622
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: conversations back in twenty twenty, I thought that the worst

623
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: of it was going to be how do we preserve

624
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: our mental and emotional wherewithal to be able to power

625
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: through COVID, a global health pandemic that just felt like

626
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: it hit out of nowhere. And now here we are

627
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: two years later, and I feel more I don't even

628
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: know how it's possible to feel more more unsafe and

629
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: more uneasy than I did in April twenty twenty that

630
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm feeling in April twenty twenty two, And that to

631
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: me again is just absolutely wild. I think absolutely wild,

632
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: enjoy I mean, like April twenty twenty, we didn't know

633
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: how good we had it. We had the alpha variant,

634
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: you know that, we didn't have chemical warfare in Russia

635
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: or Ukraine. Um So, anyway, the thing is we're Humanity

636
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: is cyclical, um so um no again, I again, I

637
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: just go back to what I said before, which is

638
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: I think there's an urgent need for New York to

639
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: have a unity moment right now and hopefully this will

640
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: be that'll be the result of this, because there really

641
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: is a need to bond together because right now, collaboration

642
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: and cooperation is what makes strength and without that year

643
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: privy to all these all these forces, you know, otherwise

644
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: you need like Batman or something like. It's like just

645
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: a savior. And so right now unity is is really

646
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: our our best, our best resource. Jonathan, thank you so much,

647
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: as always one for your work that you continue to

648
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: do and the messages that you continue to spread, the

649
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: classes that you're teaching, the work um you know that

650
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: you're producing because it's it's so greatly needed, and just

651
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: you know, always thankful for the time that you have

652
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: been making over the last two years too. I mean,

653
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: we're making sense of a really hard moment and so

654
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: I hopefully you and I and the listeners to this show,

655
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're all kind of going through this together.

656
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: This is very much a real time kind of deal,

657
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: and so you know we'll get through. But it's just

658
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: the problems. I mean, I guess we're recognizing the problems

659
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: are much more complicated than we than we expected. So yeah,

660
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: it's true. Thank you, all right, take everybody? That is

661
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: it for me? Today here on Woke a f as

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00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: always Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

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00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: Get woke and stay woke as fuck.