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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Edelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the

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Speaker 1: show where we talk about all things drugs. But any

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Speaker 1: views expressed here do not represent those of I Heart Media,

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Speaker 1: Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, Heed, as

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Speaker 1: an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not

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Speaker 1: even represent my own and nothing contained in this show

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Speaker 1: should be used his medical advice or encouragement to use

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Speaker 1: any type of drugs. Hello Psychoactive listeners. So today my

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Speaker 1: guest is somebody who's really famous. UM, her name's Chelsea

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Speaker 1: Handler and she's got her own podcast. You're Chelsea and

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Speaker 1: had me on a little while ago and very graciously

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Speaker 1: accepted invitation to join me on Coactive. So so Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing this. Oh thank you, Evan,

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Speaker 1: no problem, my pleasure. You know, I am pretty removed

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Speaker 1: from like what's going on in pop culture in all

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Speaker 1: sorts of ways. So I'll tell you the truth. And

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Speaker 1: also for listeners that when you know our folks have

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Speaker 1: arranged for me to be on your podcast. I I

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Speaker 1: heard your name, but I didn't really have a clear

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Speaker 1: idea of who you were, and so I did a

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Speaker 1: little research, so I know why I was being on

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Speaker 1: your podcast. But I have to say, you know, doing

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Speaker 1: this deep dive and preparing for this thing, you're fucking amazing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know I'm looking at you. You're a

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Speaker 1: world famous comedian. This is for the audience of my audience,

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know you are. She is a actress. She

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Speaker 1: is a podcast host. She is a talk show host.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think she was only the second woman

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Speaker 1: ever after Joan Rivers, to e her own late night

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Speaker 1: talk show. She's been doing documentaries on increasingly serious subjects

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Speaker 1: while still interweaving holes. It's a humor in it. She's

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Speaker 1: a political activist, she's a social just as activist. She's

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Speaker 1: currently at the end of two on tour with a

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Speaker 1: comedy show called Vaccinated and Horny. So I mean say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it all, um, but

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Speaker 1: you're amazing. Well, thank you, what a nice introduction. I

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Speaker 1: love it. So I take it that your success is

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Speaker 1: all about your drug use, Is that right? Yes? Yes,

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Speaker 1: one leads very nicely into the other. Uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I have a very storied history with my affinity

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Speaker 1: for drugs and the legalization of all sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: And yes, I like to share that on TV and off. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess part of your whole stick right

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Speaker 1: is that you're very out there about almost everything right.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I saw was that one

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Speaker 1: of the things that first got you into comedy was

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Speaker 1: when you after you first got arrested with a d

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Speaker 1: u I or something like that. Yes, I was arrested

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty one years old for a d

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Speaker 1: u I, and I had been using my sister, my

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Speaker 1: older sister's fake i D. So when I got pulled

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Speaker 1: over for my d u Y, I gave them my

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Speaker 1: sister's i D because my practice had been to use

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Speaker 1: her i D for anything involving alcohol. And so that

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Speaker 1: got me into double trouble because of that, because I

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Speaker 1: got a d u I and I was impersonating somebody else,

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Speaker 1: and my sister was Mormon at the time and she

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Speaker 1: was very very much against drinking and me using her

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Speaker 1: i D for such activities. So all in all, I

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Speaker 1: got in a lot of trouble and I had to

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Speaker 1: go to this d U I class for about eight

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Speaker 1: weeks where you meet every Wednesday night and the guy

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Speaker 1: running the class basically explains to you how to get

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Speaker 1: out of your next du I So I'm not really

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Speaker 1: sure why why this is a thing, But anyway, in

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Speaker 1: that time I had to make a speech and get

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Speaker 1: up and kind of tell my story. And it was

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Speaker 1: my first experience publicly speaking, and I was terrified, and uh.

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Speaker 1: I kind of waited and waited and avoided being chosen

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Speaker 1: and sat in the back of the class every night

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Speaker 1: until the very last class where I was called to

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Speaker 1: get up and tell my story. And in telling that story,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty ridiculous. I mean, I called the cop racist.

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Speaker 1: We were both white. I spent seventy two hours in

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Speaker 1: Civil Brand College, which for a Jewish girl from an

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Speaker 1: upper middle class neighborhood in New Jersey is a hot

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Speaker 1: mess nightmare. But because of that class, everyone I told

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Speaker 1: my story and everyone was loving it and laughing and

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Speaker 1: I could not get off stage. I just thought this

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Speaker 1: was the best feeling in the world. And when I

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Speaker 1: did get off, Everyone's like, oh, you have to become

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Speaker 1: a stand up comedian. And I had never thought about

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Speaker 1: that before because I just it just seemed like something

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Speaker 1: that I don't know. I just had never considered it.

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Speaker 1: It seems scary, and yeah, that's how I decided to

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Speaker 1: become a stand up comedian. So thankfully that was my

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Speaker 1: first and last d U. I I learned my lesson

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Speaker 1: the first time, so I didn't have to learn it

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Speaker 1: a second time, and uh yeah, it kind of led

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Speaker 1: to my career in stand up. So the irony is

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Speaker 1: all over the place. So doing drugs growing up, I mean,

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Speaker 1: did you start when you were like twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 1: or what was your doing. I was very anti drugs.

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Speaker 1: I was very against them until I tried them and

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Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, I'd like this. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't really start doing drugs until I was like eighteen,

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Speaker 1: nineteen years old. And then it was booze or I

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Speaker 1: mean acid or yeah, lots of lots of LSD. We

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Speaker 1: go to the Limelight in New York City. We take

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Speaker 1: a lot of LSD, mushrooms, you know, like psychedelics mostly

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Speaker 1: and yeah, some alcohol, but not really alcohol as much

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Speaker 1: until later once I was, you know, in my twenties

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Speaker 1: and moved to Los Angeles. I moved to Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: when I was nineteen, but in high school it was

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Speaker 1: much and more about mushrooms and LSD. Yeah, m hmmm.

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Speaker 1: And I mean with any of this particularly memorable or

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Speaker 1: was it just kind of doing it for yucks at

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Speaker 1: the time, you know, we I wasn't using it as

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Speaker 1: a therapy, and it wasn't therapeutic. I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: probably therapeutic, unbeknownst to me, but it was more of

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Speaker 1: a party, you know. It was more to laugh and

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Speaker 1: to Dad's and to just kind of be free and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a great It was a great feeling.

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Speaker 1: I connected with the feeling right away. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I've ever had a negative experience. I know some people have,

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Speaker 1: but with psilocybin or LSD, it was always the same

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Speaker 1: kind of vibe, you know, very I felt very in control.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel out of control, but I felt great.

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Speaker 1: I love to laugh, you know, on mushrooms make you laugh,

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Speaker 1: and LSD can do the same thing. Sometimes it kind

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Speaker 1: of hits me differently. But it just gave me a

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Speaker 1: sense of um uninhibitedness that I hadn't felt without it.

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Speaker 1: M hm. That you were the youngest of six growing up,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted growing up. I mean, were you getting

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Speaker 1: high with your siblings as well, or was this all

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Speaker 1: the stuff you did separate from that. Uh No, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't getting high with them. I definitely started taking mushrooms

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Speaker 1: with my brothers around nineteen or twenty because I'm the

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Speaker 1: one who had them, so you know, then I was

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Speaker 1: able to share with them and they didn't really have

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Speaker 1: a choice of the matter. So yeah, I took mushroms

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Speaker 1: with my brothers on several occasions, and you know, smoked

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Speaker 1: pot with them, but not until I was about nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. And I take it with your parents, zero

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Speaker 1: drug used together. No, my parents weren't. Yeah, they didn't

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Speaker 1: do drugs, but my dad and my mom really didn't

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Speaker 1: have any judgment on that. They just thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's part of being a kid. My brothers and sisters

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Speaker 1: who were older than be grew up in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: so I was born in seventy five, so my parents

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Speaker 1: were kind of used to, like, you know, drug exploration.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have a big problem with that, even though

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Speaker 1: I mean, I really you went to a synagogue, you

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Speaker 1: were bought miss as. Your dad Jewish, but your mom

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Speaker 1: like was Mormon. Yeah, she came over from Germany, so

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Speaker 1: there's a big Mormon contingency over Germany or there was,

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Speaker 1: and after the war she came over. I mean she

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Speaker 1: was about six or seven when World War two ended

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Speaker 1: and her father was served in the German military, so

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Speaker 1: he had been taken as a pow uh in the

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Speaker 1: first year of the war to Iowa, and so he

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Speaker 1: was in Iowa for many years. And then the war

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Speaker 1: ended and he returned, and then they lived in Germany

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Speaker 1: for about ten more years, and then my mom came

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Speaker 1: over to visit New Jersey when she was about nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old. I met my father and went back home

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Speaker 1: to Germany to tell them she was moving to America.

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Speaker 1: And then shortly after my mom and dad got married,

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Speaker 1: they got pregnant, or probably before they got married, quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: and then my grandparents came over. So my grandparents and

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Speaker 1: my mother were all Mormon, and they came over and

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Speaker 1: my dad was like, listen, I'm going to raise my

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Speaker 1: family Jewish, so you have to get on board with that.

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Speaker 1: There's not gonna be any Mormonism in this family. And

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Speaker 1: my mom said, sure, no problem. And so I thought

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Speaker 1: my mom was Jewish until I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: because she was at temple with us every weekend, and

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Speaker 1: she would, you know, she knew all the Hebrew prayers,

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Speaker 1: and we celebrated all the Jewish holidays. Um. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't find out she wasn't Jewish until my brother

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Speaker 1: died when I was nine, and we found out she

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Speaker 1: couldn't been buried in the same cemetery as my brother

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Speaker 1: because she wasn't Jewish and she would have to convert

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Speaker 1: to Judaism. So this was a conversation I overheard in

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Speaker 1: my kitchen with Rabbi Kasd. In the affrementioned Rabbi Kasden,

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Speaker 1: we got mitzvahed, your ex wife, and myself, and he

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Speaker 1: was talking to my father saying, well, we would have

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Speaker 1: to convert Rita to Judaism. And I remember going, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean convert? I thought mom was Jewish and

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Speaker 1: my Dad's like, no, Mom's Mormon. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's Mormon? And my Dad's like, don't worry about it

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Speaker 1: right now. And then I read the Book of Mormon

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Speaker 1: about a year later, and you know, I just threw

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Speaker 1: it at my mother. I go, you can't be serious

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Speaker 1: with this nonsense. Yeah, well, it's interesting. So your grandfather

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Speaker 1: served in the German army in World War Two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they sent him to the Russian Front because he

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Speaker 1: was one of those soldiers, like many German Men, who

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Speaker 1: wanted no part of it, but they didn't. You know,

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Speaker 1: your family was at risk, so you had to serve

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Speaker 1: in some way. But when they tested you to get

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Speaker 1: in army, you know, he just he was a very

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Speaker 1: physically strong guy. He kind of just didn't demonstrate any

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Speaker 1: of that so that he would be you know, really

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Speaker 1: relegated to some kind of desk job or something. But

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Speaker 1: they ended up setting him to the Russian Front, and uh,

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Speaker 1: that's where he was taken as a pow. Interesting origins here,

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Speaker 1: and you know, in factually did an episode not long

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Speaker 1: ago about Hitler, the Third Reich and drugs and would

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Speaker 1: a pivotal role drugs play like in the Blitz Creek

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Speaker 1: and amphetamine not weed or anything like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: when the Germans invaders so quickly through Belgium in France.

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Speaker 1: But you know, going back, Chelsea, yourman being a Mormon,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Mormons are so like you know, not

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Speaker 1: just no weed or alcohol. It's not even any coffee

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Ye, your mom was still kind

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Speaker 1: of open minded about that stuff. Uh My mom I

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Speaker 1: think was tired mostly. I mean she had had six children.

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Speaker 1: I was the youngest, and I was like a hellion,

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Speaker 1: Like I came on the scene and was, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: just challenging them at every turn. I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: but three years old, telling my parents what I've thought

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Speaker 1: of them, asking them if I had a dowry, what

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Speaker 1: the game plan was for savings. I just constantly was

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Speaker 1: challenging them, and being the youngest, that's typically what happens.

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Speaker 1: You know, you absorb your older siblings sensibilities and you

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Speaker 1: pick up on everything and you're listening to everything. So

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Speaker 1: you grew up very quickly. And I've had a strong

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Speaker 1: personality in my whole life. So my mom wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to challenge me on any of that stuff. She only

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Speaker 1: returned to Mormonism after my brother died. He had a

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Speaker 1: terrible accident and he was the oldest, and then she

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Speaker 1: became religious again, as one does. She kind of returned

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Speaker 1: to her Mormonism to find solace there within the grieving process,

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Speaker 1: I think, and you remained Mormon throughout the rest of

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Speaker 1: her life. But yeah, she wasn't sanctimonious or you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to instill her beliefs in me. She just was

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Speaker 1: doing her thing and wanted to be left alone doing that.

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Speaker 1: And I remember also that she struggled with breast cancer

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Was there any thought of her

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Speaker 1: using medical merl wanted to deal with NOI your from

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Speaker 1: chemotherapy and all that sort of thing. No, that was

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Speaker 1: pretty much before that was you know, thought to be acceptable. Really,

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Speaker 1: you know, that never even came up. So it was

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Speaker 1: a long time ago, but I guess, yeah, it feels

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Speaker 1: like it was before the advent of people understanding that

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Speaker 1: you know, marijuana comes from that ground and that it's

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Speaker 1: from Mother nature. M you know, just to shift away

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Speaker 1: from the drug thing for a second. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was wondering about this. I mean, you just talked about,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're Jewish growing up and such, and I

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Speaker 1: think about, you know, the so many of the famous comedians,

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Speaker 1: both male and female, but with the female commediany. Think

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Speaker 1: about Joan River, you know, Goldie Hawn or Sarah Silverman,

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Speaker 1: who I guess comes up just a little before you,

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Speaker 1: or Amy Schumer more recently. I mean, when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, do you how do you think you're growing

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Speaker 1: up Jewish? And this, I mean does it shape comedy?

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Speaker 1: Is there a reason why there seems to be a

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Speaker 1: disproportionate number of Jews doing comedy in America. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would say, so you have a sharper sense of

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Speaker 1: humor by being you know, persecuted. You have that feeling.

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Speaker 1: Whether that happened to our generation per say, where we

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Speaker 1: grew up or not. I mean, I think that's intergenerational.

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Speaker 1: You know, you always feel like as a Jew until

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Speaker 1: you come to Hollywood, that you're in the minority, even

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Speaker 1: though I grew up in a very Italian Jewish neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and Livingston like it was very there was lots of

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Speaker 1: Jewish people, but it's just a very kind of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, there's something very self deprecating about being Jewish

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Speaker 1: because there's humility in it. Hm and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: before we get into cannabis, because I can just I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're all over the place in the media. You're on

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Speaker 1: more popular programs and news programs talking about how wonderful

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Speaker 1: Merril winter is almost that I can think of. But

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Speaker 1: before we go there, you know, it seems like alcohol

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Speaker 1: was pretty much the dominant drug in your life throughout

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Speaker 1: your twenties, and that on the one hand, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like it almost became a problem, but never really and

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Speaker 1: maybe it was great and you stand by it, but

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Speaker 1: there was I mean, just talk about your relationship with

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Speaker 1: especially in your younger years, and had that evolved. Well.

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Speaker 1: I was very much a party girl, and I talked

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Speaker 1: about it and made a living talking about it. Like

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Speaker 1: you know, I was rewarded for talking about it. My

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Speaker 1: first book was called My Horizontal Life, a collection of

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Speaker 1: one night stands, and you know, people were like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe you got away with writing

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Speaker 1: a book about that. I'm like, why, what's the problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got a TV show where I talked

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Speaker 1: about alcohol and drug use openly, and I think for

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Speaker 1: a while I was probably over using alcohol because of

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Speaker 1: what happened with my brother. The trauma of you know,

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Speaker 1: my brother dying at that young age and never really

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Speaker 1: having the tools to access or articulate that pain, you know,

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Speaker 1: and react to it. My parents didn't have the wherewithal

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Speaker 1: to get us into therapy and to get us into

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Speaker 1: you know, trauma grief, and I think that turns into

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Speaker 1: I don't think I know from going to therapy as

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Speaker 1: an adult, that that kind of delayed grief. You know,

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Speaker 1: you use drugs or you use alcohol to, you know,

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Speaker 1: cover up your pain, and you don't think that there's

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Speaker 1: a problem. You just think you're a fun person. So uh,

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Speaker 1: I think that's in my twenties and the abuse of alcohol,

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Speaker 1: probably to certain degrees, I never was a problem where

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Speaker 1: I had to, like you know, go to rehab or anything.

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Speaker 1: I was always able to cut it out if I

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Speaker 1: had needed to, or tone it down when I needed to.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say, no one really ever even

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Speaker 1: asked me to tone it down because I was doing

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Speaker 1: well in all facets of my life. If that are measurable,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of an inside job for you

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Speaker 1: to take a look at why you want to drink

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Speaker 1: so much or why you lean on alcohol in the

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Speaker 1: way you do. So nobody ever brought it to my attention.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely part of my persona and it still is.

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Speaker 1: I still drink, Obviously, I don't drink like I did

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Speaker 1: my my twenties because now I understand you know the

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Speaker 1: ill effects of drinking and the deleterious impact it has

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Speaker 1: on you, and you know how to use it more responsibly.

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Speaker 1: Plus I'm forty seven years old. It doesn't feel good

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Speaker 1: to drink like that, Like I don't have a desire

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Speaker 1: like that anymore, but I can still tiwan on ethant

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Speaker 1: uh huh. I saw someplace you said, Josie said, if

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Speaker 1: I was an alcoholic, I'd be a functional alcoholic. And

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Speaker 1: I guess you would never have describe yourself an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: even if you were drinking too much of times, because

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Speaker 1: you could always stop when you wanted to, and you

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Speaker 1: would just clean out and clean out and all that,

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Speaker 1: and it never really cost your professionally. It's not as

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Speaker 1: if you're out there doing sets and you realize that

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Speaker 1: you were screwing up or forgetting lines or this sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff, for being off. Although you also talked about

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Speaker 1: sometimes not you know, next morning, not remembering the last

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Speaker 1: that you did. Yeah, well, yes, that definitely did happen.

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Speaker 1: And so there were instances. It just wasn't a comment,

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a recurring theme, like it didn't happen over

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Speaker 1: and over again. It happened a couple of times, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they very much kind of woke me up

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Speaker 1: and said, okay, this is you're going a little too

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Speaker 1: far here. Now you have to get yourself under control.

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Speaker 1: So I've always had a very like um decent, you know,

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Speaker 1: sense of self awareness with regard to my drinking and

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Speaker 1: how it's affecting my career. And if it was so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it never got to a place where where that you know,

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Speaker 1: where anybody had to sit me down and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's get a grip here. And did you

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Speaker 1: have a favorite? I mean, I think the second book

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Speaker 1: was called are you there Vodka? It's meat, Chelsea? I mean,

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Speaker 1: with vodka your favorite booze? Or were you like anything?

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Speaker 1: You know, what could be? Wine, beer, could be I

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Speaker 1: basically just only drink vodka, uh huh, straight like no,

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Speaker 1: I put a little soda water in it. Uh huh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like martinis with that kind of thing. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I like vodka and soda. That's pretty much. And that's more.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the genesis of that is more for dietary

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Speaker 1: and you know, vanity than anything else. It was like

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Speaker 1: the one drink you could drink without bloating or putting

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Speaker 1: on weight. You know, vodka was supposed to be the

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Speaker 1: cleanest alcohol. Now they say tequila is, but I'm still

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Speaker 1: devoutly vodka drink drink okay, okay? And would you ever

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Speaker 1: drink on stage when you're performing? Was that party all

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Speaker 1: the time, of course. Yeah, that's part of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that while you're on stage. I have been. I have

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Speaker 1: been on stage where I didn't remember absolutely. I I

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Speaker 1: used to go on tour. I remember my last stand

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Speaker 1: up tour. I had to be doing two shows at

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Speaker 1: Arena's back to back at the same night, and the

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Speaker 1: second show I would barely remember. And I was exhausted.

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Speaker 1: I had been doing like eight years of my television

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Speaker 1: show or seven years. I had four books come out

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Speaker 1: back to back to back, So that's a book tour,

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Speaker 1: which is a stand up tour, and I had just

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Speaker 1: worked myself into the ground and it became my coping mechanism,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons I stopped doing my

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Speaker 1: show and I stopped doing stand up. I had just

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Speaker 1: had had it. I was exhausted, and I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: using alcohol to like get me through the next show,

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Speaker 1: to give me energy. And so yeah, that was a

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Speaker 1: big turning point. We'll be talking more after we hear

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Speaker 1: this ad for alreadience you. A few years ago, Chelsea

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Speaker 1: did a series of FOD documentaries on Netflix, like on Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: does the Internet, Silicon Valley Matter? When, on marriage, when

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Speaker 1: a racism and one on drugs, and you spent about

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Speaker 1: a quarter of the episode talking to people who had

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Speaker 1: been in rehab being addicted. Um, I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: it felt like I mean, part of other parts of it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we're about you know, we'll get into your

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Speaker 1: ayahuasca trip and other types of elements of drug using.

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Speaker 1: Getting high in marijuana much more celebratory, and so when

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Speaker 1: you were doing that part of it, the rehab thing,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you're trying to show the spectrum of

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Speaker 1: people's relationship with drugs, but when you see people who

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Speaker 1: struggle that way, do you just feel like, there but

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Speaker 1: for the grace of guy though I or that you

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Speaker 1: just simply can't relate, or I mean, you know, what

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Speaker 1: did you think about those elements of it. I just

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Speaker 1: remember someone saying to me at a very early age,

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Speaker 1: or overhearing a conversation, saying, I don't ever want to

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Speaker 1: have to give up alcohol, so I'm never going to

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Speaker 1: abuse it. And that just stayed with me. So I

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00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: I could relate to these people. But I thought, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: I never let it get me, you know, I never

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Speaker 1: felt that I had let it get me. I'm sure

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00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 1: other people would disagree. By the way, I'm sure other

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Speaker 1: people would be like, oh my god, she's a lush

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Speaker 1: or she was a lush or whatever. But that's not

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Speaker 1: really that doesn't matter to me. It's what I you know,

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Speaker 1: it's how I experienced it. And whenever I felt like

401
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: it had gotten out of control or it could get

402
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 1: out of control, I rained it in because I didn't

403
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Speaker 1: ever want to have to give something up completely. I

404
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: didn't ever want to have to go to rehab, you know,

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Speaker 1: or do something like that. And yeah, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think I have that addictive personality. I just I like

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Speaker 1: to have fun. But I don't have that addiction gene,

408
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: luckily because neither of my parents had it either. Mm hmm, yeah, No,

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00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,479
Speaker 1: I'm not sort of the same way I mean I've been.

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Speaker 1: I think I basically enjoyed the vast majority of drugs,

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Speaker 1: and most almost every drug been a kind of benefit

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Speaker 1: of my life. And anytime it seems like if I

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Speaker 1: get high three or four days in a row, I

414
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Speaker 1: just only want to get high the next, you know,

415
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Speaker 1: the next fuhile, I just want to kind of clear out.

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00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: It's always been the same way with alcohol. But you

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Speaker 1: threw another drug in the mix back then, which I've

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Speaker 1: never really played around with that much, which is ambient

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Speaker 1: and sleeping pills. What was that about? Oh yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were demonstrating what happens to people when they're on ambient

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Speaker 1: and what happens when you drink on ambient, because ambient

422
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: can be such a dangerous sleeping pit hill. So we

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Speaker 1: did that. We showed you know, how how people act

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Speaker 1: when they have one ambient, when they mix it with alcohol,

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00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: when they have two ambient. Uh. We were just kind

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Speaker 1: of going through what drugs we could legally do on television,

427
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: and that fell under that category right now. I mean,

428
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: and I think it was an interesting point because one

429
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: of the things that people I think, you know, don't

430
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: or do realize is that when you're combining alcohol with

431
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: a sleeping pill like ambient. I think on the TV

432
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: show you did at ten look Zambi and a couple

433
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: of cocktails as well, when you're combining it with alcohol

434
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: and opioids, that basically, if you combine it in quote

435
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: unquote the right amounts, there's a mist amounts, it can

436
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: actually be a great high, but that if you sort

437
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: of do too much of it, it can actually stop

438
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: your breathing. So it's got A. It's got a high

439
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: danger risk level, but you can understand why people do

440
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: it because it feels good. But what about in your

441
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: own life. I thought there's a point where you were

442
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 1: sort of getting into the sleeping n till a night

443
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: thing and all this and beginning to wonder if that

444
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: would be a problem. Uh yeah, I mean I've probably

445
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: been through that experience with almost every drug. Like I

446
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: I've always experimented. Yeah, there was a period of time

447
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: where I used a man I don't know, maybe a

448
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: year or something where I experimented with ambient. There was

449
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: a year when I experimented with xan X. Sometimes I

450
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: take xan x, you know today, like to go to

451
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: sleep if I'm traveling and back and forth. I just

452
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: came home from my worka for a month, so yeah,

453
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: I use xan X to get me back on track.

454
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: But again, it's about using these things judiciously and not

455
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: becoming you know, reliant on them. That's where cannabis comes

456
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: in in such a helpful way, because because cannabis is

457
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: a great alternative to almost any you know, drug that

458
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: you're going to get from a pharmaceutical company. You know,

459
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: it can relax to you, it can help you sleep,

460
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: It can help you focus if you're taking the right strain.

461
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: There are so many benefits to it. So yeah, I

462
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: mean that's why I'm such an advocate for cannabis use

463
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: because I mean, what the pharmaceutical companies have done to

464
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: this country. You know, we can't be trusting them, and

465
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: and and having a reliance on any of these substances

466
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: is terrifying for a lot of people. And you know,

467
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: when you get your genealogy tested, they do tell you

468
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: whether you have that addiction gene They do when you

469
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: do twenty three in me, they can tell you that

470
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: and if you do have it. I mean, you look

471
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: at people with the opioid crisis, people who have done

472
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: who did you know oxycodone or not oxycodone? What? What's

473
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: the drug? The ones name? OxyContin was the brand name, right,

474
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean people would take three of those and be addicted.

475
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: And there are other people who did it for three

476
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: weeks and weren't addicted. So it's it's also a measure

477
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: of what you know your constitution is made up. That's

478
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: a huge factor that nobody had been factoring in for

479
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: years before we had this genetic testing. Yeah, I mean

480
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting but by the way, just to finish the

481
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: THEELI drugs before cannabis, you never really got into the opioid.

482
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: It sounds like not clear if you ever got much

483
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: into stimulants, you know, the amphetamine or stuff like that,

484
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: or into tobacco. I mean basically, is that basically right,

485
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: that those three drug categories you generally avoided or just smoked.

486
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: I smoked a little bit of cigarettes. I smoked a

487
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: little bit for a few years, and then I got hypnotized.

488
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: I gave that up. Uh, stimulants, amphetamines. No, I mean

489
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: I've definitely done cocaine. Uh, no heroin or anything like that.

490
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean I've tried pretty much everything that's

491
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: out there, probably minus heroin or crack or you know,

492
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: crystal math. I have never done those things, or I

493
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: have again, I would bet. I don't know what that is.

494
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: What's oh well, I don't know. If I tell you what,

495
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: you got something to look forward to. But I begain

496
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: is the to the few psychedelic things that comes from

497
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: a plant actually a root in Africa and gabone called eboga,

498
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: and it's the one that people use. Nobody does it

499
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: for fun or for yucks. Um. Some people do it

500
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: for greater spiritual insight, but it's more commonly associated with

501
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: people who have a very serious addiction to opioids or

502
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 1: alcohol or other things using it to basically clear their

503
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: system of that. And there's you know, the beginnings amount

504
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: of research on it may turn out to be one

505
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: of the most amazing of all the psychedelics in terms

506
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: of really being helpful to people. But it's a long

507
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: long it's it's longer than LSD. It's intense, you know.

508
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: I mean when you talked about doing ayahuasca and you know,

509
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: weariness about you know, the diarrhea and the nausea and

510
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: throwing up. I mean, I begains for many people has

511
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: the same thing, if not even you know, more challenging.

512
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: But you know so, I guess so when you had

513
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: me on your podcast, right you interviewed me for the

514
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: first half hour, and then you and I took questions

515
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: from your audience, you know, about drugs, and they were

516
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: looking for drug use. And either us are doctors, but

517
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: we both have a lot of experience and knowledge, and

518
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: I was very impressed at the way you're handling a

519
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: lot of those questions. And at one point I saw

520
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: yourself not when we were talking. But someplace else describe

521
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: yourself as a pharmacological into it. There's somebody with natural

522
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: intuition when it comes to drug years. Um is that

523
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: just based on experience? So you find that, you know,

524
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: people are valuing your advice in terms of what you're

525
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: telling them about this. I mean, I just have a

526
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: pretty good read on people. I can meet somebody and

527
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: I understand if they're a person that can handle cannabis,

528
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: that can handle alcohol, that can handle you know, mushrooms.

529
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: Like people come to me all the time, my friends

530
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: and relatives, and they're always like, what do I take

531
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: for this? What do I take for that? I just

532
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: have a vast experience and interest, you know, I think

533
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: when you're interested in something, and the same with pharmaceuticals,

534
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: I'm very interested in pharmaceuticals. I'm very interested in anti

535
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: aging stuff. I'm very interested in peptides. Like when you

536
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: have a natural curiosity about something, you know, you absorb

537
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: a lot of the information around it. So I'm an

538
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: open book and a like, you know, a reliable sort

539
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: when when it's something I've had experience with or I've

540
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: seen other people have, you know, positive outcomes with so

541
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: on the psychedelic stuff. I mean, you did a lot

542
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: of acid back then. Are you still doing asset? No?

543
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: I haven't done LSD in a really long time. M h, yeah,

544
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't mind doing some. Actually, yeah, it's funny.

545
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: I have this lessons. I like micro dose it, but

546
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: it's never been my thing. I think for both you

547
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: and me, mushrooms, you know, plays big time and I've

548
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: I've read about you doing you know, mushrooms and your staff.

549
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: I think mushrooms this, and that's tell us say something

550
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: more about you and mushrooms. Oh well, I love mushrooms.

551
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: I like micro dosing mushrooms. I have something called fund it.

552
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: My friend grows her own mushrooms and she just grounds

553
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: them up and then it gives them to me and

554
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: you just like put your finger in, take a little,

555
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, and put it in your tongue and it's

556
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: just like a little pick me up. And you know,

557
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: you're talking about ten milligrams or something at most, so

558
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: you're not dosing yourself like you know, it would take

559
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: five grams to have an actual ushroom sit, which some

560
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: of my friends in Whistler, Canada are doing this winter,

561
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: which I said I would join them in, which is

562
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: one of those guided kind of you know, journeys that

563
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: you take with somebody there journaling with you, and you know,

564
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: where you put ice shades on and you put your

565
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: headphones on and you actually have a sit So that

566
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: would be like five grams where you and they say

567
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: you get rid of your ego, you know. I was like, well,

568
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: what about two and a half gram She's like, you'll

569
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: still have your ego, It'll still but you'll be laughing,

570
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: like you want to get past the ego part. And

571
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm interested in that because you

572
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: can get rid of, you know, really old patterns of

573
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: behavior and you can actually see yourself outside of yourself,

574
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: which is much like my experience doing ayahuasca when I

575
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: went to Peru and one of the episodes of Chelsea

576
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: does on Netflix, we did ayahuasca and Peru and um,

577
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: that was an experience where I understood what it felt

578
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: like to be outside of yourself and looking at your

579
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: life and it it was like watching a phantasm megoria

580
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: of my own experiences like as an like playing like

581
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: an iPod shuffle, just all my childhood memories with my

582
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: sister and me just playing like back and forth like

583
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: dogs that we had that I had forgotten about, repressed

584
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: or suppressed memories that just came alive. You know. It

585
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: opens up those neural pathways where you can remember these things.

586
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: And it was a really powerful experience, which is what

587
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: would draw me to do that with either. I mean,

588
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: they the options have recently been ketamine or psilocybin, and

589
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: I feel like ketamine sounds a little bit more disassociative

590
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: and that's not my preference. So I think I might

591
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: do that mushroom sit when I get up to Whistler

592
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: this winter for skiing season. Well, I mean, I'll tell

593
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: you something. You know, So watching the episode, right the

594
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: Chelsea does the aahuasca and so you know, you go

595
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: down to Peru, right, you got this shan in there.

596
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: You with two friends, a guy and and and a

597
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: younger woman and the first night you all drink and

598
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: the guys having a terrible experience. At least that's what

599
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: he describes it, you know, on Emera and the younger

600
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: woman she has a powerful one about childhood stuff and

601
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there like I'm not feeling anything, and

602
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: I could almost like empathize you as like a holy

603
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: sh it. I mean, first of all, here's my two friends.

604
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: They're both having big experience, one bad, one good. You know,

605
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: Netflix just paid for the whole camera crew to have

606
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: come down here. I'm down here and I took the

607
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: same doses them, and I'm not feeling anything. And it

608
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: sounds like the next day you said to the sham

609
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: and lay it on me and give me, you know,

610
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: the dose. I want to make sure I have an

611
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: experience and then you know, so I is that more

612
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: or less what was happening that first night when you

613
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: didn't feel anything or barely? Yeah, well, I think by

614
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: both of my friends that I had dragged down to

615
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: Peru to do Ayawaska with me, we're having such kind

616
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: of histrionic reactions to the drug, I mean, which is

617
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: par for the course. So I guess I shouldn't use

618
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: that word because that lends itself to think that they

619
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: couldn't handle it. I mean a lot of people have

620
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: those kinds of reactions, and they were very emotional and

621
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: they were very sick, and it just kind of took

622
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: me out of mine because you know, I was responsible

623
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: for them, So I mean, I just couldn't relax and

624
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: let the drug take a hold of me. I felt

625
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: it coming on, and then when I saw my friends

626
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: and heard my friends bawling and crying, I was like, oh,

627
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I have to be there for them. So the next

628
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: day that they were like, okay, no friends, and you know,

629
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: let's cut the cameras in half. Instead of having four cameras,

630
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: we had one. And I went into a room alone

631
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: with a shaman and he gave me a double dose

632
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: of what I had tried the night before, and then

633
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: I was able to really focus on my own experience.

634
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: Have you done it since? No? I haven't. I don't

635
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: really have a desire to do that drug again. I would.

636
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of my friends are always asking

637
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: me to do it with them because there's people that

638
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: do it here and to Panga Canyon, and you know,

639
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: all over the country people are doing ayahuasca now. But uh, yeah,

640
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a strong urge to

641
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: do that again. M h. You mentioned to paying you

642
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm one of your shows. I saw you talking about

643
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: doing the toad medicine five mm O d n T.

644
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah was it you talk about that one? I was

645
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: not pleasant. That is called an ego killer, but it was.

646
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: It's like an eight and ten minute experience, and I

647
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: was just it was, it was awful. I was immediately

648
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: had to I was recovered in my own sweat within

649
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. I had to lie back. It was dark, dark, ominous.

650
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: All I remember black clouds and black clouds, And I

651
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: had never felt that on drugs before. I'd always felt

652
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: hopefulness and enlightenment, you know, and positivity and twinkling and

653
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: things looking like, you know, more beautiful than they would

654
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: look in my natural state. But I had never experienced

655
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: that reaction where everything just felt odious and and calamitous.

656
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: And so I just was telling how my please make

657
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: the stop, make the stop, make the stop, and she

658
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: was just kind of rubbing my arm and holding my

659
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: hand and it was over quickly, thankfully, but I was not. Yeah,

660
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: that was not a pleasant experience. So you're not gonna

661
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: do that one again? No, I am not, because I

662
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: mean so many just people describe smoking his stuff and

663
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: having these fifteen minutes of wondrous universal, you know, some

664
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: feeling like his last thing a lifetime in a positive

665
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: sense of the term, and you know, then coming back

666
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: and you know, life transformative trips. I mean, in my case,

667
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: I was intrigued by it, and I was kind of

668
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: scared of it. And I finally got up the guts

669
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: to tell a friend of mine who has laid a

670
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: lot of people on their first five you know, five

671
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: M O D M T toy medicine things, Okay, I'm

672
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: ready to do it. And he says, actually, Ethan, you know,

673
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't actually have the smokable version. I

674
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: only have the snortable version. And I said, well, okay,

675
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: how it will be different? He goes, you know, I'm

676
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: not exactly sure as how long the last he goes,

677
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: maybe twice as long, maybe thirty minutes. So he lays

678
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: out two long lines and I snort these two lines

679
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: of the stuff and a burn like hell going down.

680
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: Finally settled down, and I gotta tell you five hours later,

681
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like, but it was kind of

682
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: like a mushroomy sort of thing. But I mean at

683
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: one point I had energy. Shoot, you got my legs.

684
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm lying on my back with their dog licking my

685
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: face while I'm doing this thing, and I like, and

686
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: afterwards they sit to me from you in Condalini excerci,

687
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: I said, what's Condalini because my legs were like zapping

688
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: outward all this sort of stuff, and even when I finished,

689
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: I was, you know, trying to talk and other you know,

690
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I literally couldn't get words out of my

691
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: mouth coherently until the next morning. So that is definitely

692
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: a very very powerful thing, which I think you will

693
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: do again. I think I want to try the smokable

694
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: version and see what that's like, because it wasn't apart

695
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: from how much it burned going down, it was not

696
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: an unpleasant experience, you know. I mean, you know when

697
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: I think when I was a guest on your show,

698
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: we talked to some people calling in and I said,

699
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, some people say there's never no such things

700
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 1: as a bad trip. Other people have horrifying experiences, whether

701
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: it's on mushrooms or peyote, mescal in ayahuasca. Part of

702
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: it's how you interpret it. I know people who felt

703
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: like they went through hell and they come out of

704
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: it and saying it was the best thing that ever

705
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: happened to them. Um, So you know, a lot of

706
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: it's in the definition. And I'll also tell you in

707
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: terms of doing that megados like you're thinking of doing

708
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: with your friends, and mushrooms. I've done it at like

709
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: that five six milligram level where you know you can't

710
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: let me out in public because I look a bit psychotic.

711
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: I don't get the ego dissolution. I stay pretty centered

712
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: the whole time. But it's a very powerful, somewhat spiritual,

713
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: moving experience, very memorable. UM so yeah, I mean I

714
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: definitely encourage you. I think I think you'll really uh

715
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: you know. Oh well that's good to know. So, you know,

716
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: we talked then You're Brokeram about m d M A,

717
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: and I was a little surprised when you said that

718
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: you've you've never done it in a romantic situation, just

719
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: you and your romantic partner. That you've done it with friends,

720
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: You've done it partying. I wonder, since you've done that,

721
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: have you had a chance to do it in a

722
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: more intimate environment. I mean, now, I've done m d

723
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: M A with a romantic partner, but not in a

724
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: therapy setting, which is what we were talking about on

725
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: my podcast, Like you were talking about couples having problems

726
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: and doing m d M A guided therapy, which I

727
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: would have I would have loved to do with several partners.

728
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that was a thing. But yeah,

729
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: of course I've done it with romantic partners. It's fun

730
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: to do with anybody. Okay, Okay, gotta gott got it,

731
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: So listen, sonata cannabis. I mean you're out there all

732
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: over the place. You had a funny story you were

733
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: telling about getting your your sister who was a recovering

734
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: Mormon you described or I mean, what what what was

735
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: that like when she did was her first cannabis experience

736
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: when she did it or she done it when she

737
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: was younger or what? H No, No, my sister is

738
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: very uh yeah, she's very inexperience when it comes to

739
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: drinking or drug use. So I just kind of got

740
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: my whole family on board with edibles. We go to

741
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: a Whistler, Canada each year to see and they started

742
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: baking us cannabis infused cookies up there about ten or

743
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: eleven years ago, and we just started handing them out

744
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: before we went to dinner, and it made our family

745
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: vacations just that much more fun. We all just seemed

746
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: to get along great, have great time, laugh our asses off,

747
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: and then we just developed this great affinity for cannabis.

748
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, I serve it up every every Christmas. Now,

749
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: I see, I see, have you ever overnosed unanedable? I mean,

750
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: like we all have those stories from college about having

751
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: too much in a you know, marijuana brownie or something

752
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I mean I've had situations where I

753
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: felt high for a couple of days. But again, I'm

754
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: not one of those people who freaks out like I

755
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: don't get like a paranoid that that that's not my

756
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: my bag. I've seen lots of my friends react in

757
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: that way when you have a brownie or you know.

758
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I had a cannabis infused dinner that we

759
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: filmed for Netflix, a dinner party one night that was

760
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: on my Netflix talk show, and I was high for

761
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: three days after that because they're just serving you one

762
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: meal after another that's cannabis infused, so there is no

763
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: way to recover from that. I mean one of my

764
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: eyes didn't open for like twenty four hours I was

765
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: so high. So that was not a great feeling. But again,

766
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: I don't have you know, freakouts. Yeah, I gotta say,

767
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: the only time they ever happened to me I was

768
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: in college. I I think I had smoked some very

769
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: strong marril wine just before I've ever done edibles. And

770
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: then sometimes you can do that. And we go to

771
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: the sauna and we'd sit in the sauna and we

772
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: played backgamut, and it would almost be like this contest, like,

773
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, how long can you stay in the sauna,

774
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: how far I can you get through the back gamut?

775
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: And and I was so baked from the cannabis already

776
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: and being in the sauna just doubly baked it into

777
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: my head and I almost passed out, almost fell over.

778
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: God home, and I'll say it took a good thirty

779
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: six hours to clear out and never done that again.

780
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that was a highly unpleasant experience. So yeah,

781
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: that sounds unpleasant. I don't like the idea of sauna

782
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: and being high. I'm not having a version to extreme heat.

783
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: Mm hm. So you know, you also see, let me

784
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: see if I got this right. One of the things

785
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: I heard you say, it's surprised me it was cannabis.

786
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: I thought you said that it's not something you particularly

787
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: enjoy with sex, Is that right? I hear you're wrong.

788
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't think of it as a

789
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: sexual drug. I definitely had sex on cannabis, but I

790
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: don't think of it as an aphrodisiac. That's so interesting, Yeah,

791
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, because it's got such a reputation for that.

792
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: You know, there's the Polster Prize winning writer Natalie Angier

793
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: Rights from New York Times, and she did this book

794
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: that When the Poets Here, and she talked about how

795
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: herself and and everyone in her family had their first

796
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: full blown orgasm and influence of marijuana. I mean, I've

797
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: heard many of these things were for so many, both

798
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: men and women, but especially women. It's the thing that

799
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: just kind of settles all the chatter, helps them get

800
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: more connected into it. But that's not really been your

801
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: experience and this. Yeah, no, I would say the opposite,

802
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: and I think I find it try harder to orgasm

803
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: on cannabis has been my experience. Wow, that's interesting. I

804
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: wonder what that is not impossible difficult? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

805
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: I think it's just how your receptors in just the drug.

806
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: You know, some of us have like a certain reaction,

807
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: and I think some people become calmer, some people become

808
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: less engaged, some people become hyperactive. You know, it's like,

809
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: what are your genes gonna do with that information? That

810
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: and the drug being the information, so I think we

811
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: all react differently to all sorts of things. Let's take

812
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: a break here and go to an ad. You know,

813
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about two prior episodes I did en Psychoactive.

814
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: One was about Jews in cannabis. It was based on

815
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: an exhibit at the Center for Jewish History in New York,

816
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking you should have been one of the

817
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: stars in this exhibit. But the other one that's just

818
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: gone up recently is about um jazz and drugs, based

819
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: on a book by a phone name Rnintorial Bop Apocalypse,

820
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: and it gets all into the various dimensions, you know,

821
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: the question about why so many of the famous jazz

822
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: musicians used we there's a whole big phase of using heroin,

823
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, Charlie Parker and a lot of the other musicians.

824
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: Alcohol as oftenime as being a destructivelopment. But in your case,

825
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: when you think about the creative process and you're writing

826
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: your material and such, what role do the various drugs play,

827
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: if any, in all of that. I mean, I definitely

828
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: used cannabis and mushrooms when I'm writing books. I've written

829
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: six books. I'm working on my seventh right now, which

830
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: will have all been number one New York Times bestsellers.

831
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: I should add, just because we're in the age where

832
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: you have to kind of sing your own praises, So

833
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: I'll do that. Um and I definitely use that. Like

834
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: I when I write everything, I just kind of spit

835
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: it all out or vomit it all out. I should say,

836
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: I put everything down, and then I have to go

837
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: back and finesse it and and infuse it with humor

838
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: and infuse it with all of the fun stuff. And

839
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: I find that cannabis or mushrooms are a rate aid

840
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: in doing that. You know, if I had the other night,

841
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: I was at my girlfriend's house and we smoke to joint.

842
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: I came home and I wrote for an hour, you know,

843
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: because I was I was like, oh, okay, let me

844
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: go through this chapter. So it helps. I don't think

845
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: it's for me. It's not part of the initial process,

846
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: but it's part of the process. And when you write

847
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: for an hour under the influence, how does it look

848
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: the next morning? Some of it's great and profound, and

849
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: some of its garbage. Yeah. I sometimes find that when

850
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: I when I'm getting high and weed, I'll have all

851
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: these great ideas, but then the next morning, they just

852
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: seem like they're just blown away in the wind, Whereas

853
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: with mushrooms, there have been times on mushrooms where I

854
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: find myself writing, you know, a very personal letter to

855
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: a friend, a former lover, or whatever it might be,

856
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: and then the next day, sitting down, it's still totally

857
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: clear as a bell, and I can write it out

858
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: and send it to the person, and it's probably the

859
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: best letters I've ever written in my life. Had been

860
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: under the influence of mushrooms. But do you see something

861
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: similar in that in the difference between the two. Uh,

862
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I have there ever been ones where you think,

863
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: like a real serious ah ha moment that's come with

864
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: one drobe or the other. Yeah, mushrooms, I think is

865
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: more that way, because mushrooms are more realistic. It's just

866
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: accentuating the beauty that lies there anyway, you see things

867
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: in a more kind of magical way. You know. That's

868
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: why they're called magic. Mushrooms. Uh, hot can just make

869
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: you think things are funny when they aren't, or you know,

870
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: you have good ideas when you don't. Mushrooms are pretty.

871
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: I think they run parallel to your nature as is.

872
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: It's just an augmentation of of the beauty of things

873
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: and the use of language. You know, you can write

874
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: more elegantly when you're on mushrooms, you can think more elegantly,

875
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: and you perceive more elegantly. H So, now when you're

876
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: out there, I mean, you're so frank in talking about

877
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: so much UM. And I'm curious what has been the

878
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: reaction like of Netflix, of HBO or the theaters where

879
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: you perform and how is that evolved over time? Mean,

880
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: do you have to sign agreement to say you won't

881
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: say certain things where there ever constraints on what you

882
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 1: could say yours about stuff? Did? Uh? Yeah, they got

883
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 1: on my ass, but I you know, I always argued

884
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: and fought for being able to speak the truth of

885
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: my experience. So you know, I guess after a while

886
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: of doing that. You know, people don't understand when they

887
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: hire me what that comes with and what I'm going

888
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: to say, and that I'm not good with a lot

889
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: of parameters about certainly about the truth and my own experiences.

890
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: You know, UM, language you can edit and you know,

891
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: use of bad language or language that's not welcome on

892
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, network television, but behaviors I've never been able

893
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: to pretend on anything other than what I am. So

894
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: anytime I'm doing business with somebody, you know, they know

895
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: what they're signing up for. Mm hmmm. And I see

896
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: people are always pressing you to apologize for something you

897
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: said and are rare occasions you have, but you've never

898
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: had to do that around drugs, right, No, No, Well,

899
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: you know the other thing I admire about you is

900
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: you're not just talking about your own drug use and

901
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: giving pretty good advice to people about this, but you've

902
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: also become increasingly political. I mean, part of your life

903
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: is being being a social justice activists and political activists

904
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: and on issues around gay rights and a lot of

905
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: other progressive issues, but you've increasingly been stepping out about

906
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: the drug war, and I think more recently a few

907
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: years ago, you did a documentary on white privilege, and

908
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: there was a fascinating personal story where you go back

909
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: and visit, you know, your boyfriend from when you were

910
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: in high school and just share a bit of that

911
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: story and some of the realization from that with the audience. Um. Yeah,

912
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: I went. I went and visited my high school boyfriend

913
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: whose name was Tayshan, and I had dated him for

914
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: two years and we got caught with marijuana two or

915
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: three times, and each time we got caught, the police

916
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: arrested him because he was black and I was white,

917
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: and they told me just to go back to my neighborhood.

918
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: Like I was let off immediately, and he was, you know,

919
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: sent to jail. And he was the captain of the

920
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: football team. He was I think the captain of the

921
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: basketball team too. He had a big future ahead of him,

922
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: and once you get into that system, it's very hard

923
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: to get out, and he ended up spending I think

924
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve years in prison. Um, and while I

925
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: was able to just go on my merry way, you know,

926
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: I never thought twice about him after we broke up,

927
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, every once in a while it would come up.

928
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: So I was able to visit him during this documentary

929
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: just to demonstrate kind of my naive te and entitlement

930
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 1: and you know, being able to walk into a community

931
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: like his and walk out when I was done with it,

932
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: versus him being targeted, you know, and us being caught

933
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: for the same same act, and one of us being

934
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: punished and one of us being you know released. So

935
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: it was pretty obvious back in the day, but I

936
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking on those terms. You know, when you're sixteen

937
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: years old, you're not thinking about that kind of racial

938
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: inequity or discrimination. You know, it's not until you get

939
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: older that you're able to reflect and have a more

940
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: responsible recollection of things. And through that recollection and reflection,

941
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to really examine it and examine

942
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: all of the things that go with that. So listen, now,

943
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, you know, I'm looking about what you're doing

944
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: your in your life now. And you guys, you've got

945
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: another book coming out, You're on tour um, You've hosted

946
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: a late night talk show before you know, I see,

947
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, just recently Trevor Nor saying he's leaving The

948
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: Daily Show, And I'm thinking, wow, I mean, Chelsea would

949
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: be amazing, you know, in that role to step into

950
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: those shoes that he and John Stewart had. And I wonder,

951
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: is that something you're like, not either that specifically you're

952
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: generally interested in doing. Now, do you think your openness

953
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: about so much stuff, both drugs and other stuff might

954
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: still be a barrier? Would you be expected to pull

955
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 1: your punches a bit on all that type of stuff?

956
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: I mean, what does it look like from where you

957
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 1: sit right now, I mean, we're definitely having conversations about

958
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: me going back to TV and doing a late night show. Um,

959
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, Trevor Noah quitting is definitely a conversation my

960
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: agents and I are having around it. You know, Yes,

961
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: I would be interested in pursuing conversations around that. I

962
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: am definitely. I hosted Jimmy Kimmel for a week a

963
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: couple of months ago, and I really just didn't realize

964
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: how much I had missed it. I loved commenting on

965
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: everything that's going on politically and you know, kind of

966
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: culturally what's happening, and and I'm very good at it.

967
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: You know, It's a skill set that I have, and

968
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: I would love to go back to TV. Now now

969
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: that I've had some time away from it, I can

970
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it a lot more. Being in the thick of

971
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: it and kind of working relentlessly for seven or eight

972
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: years makes you kind of just want to bow out

973
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: from all things. So now I'm in a different state

974
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: of mind for sure. Mm hmmm. So the last question,

975
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you're obviously very much of a feminist.

976
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: You're talking about some of the issues of sexism and

977
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: like who gets to be big talk show hosts in

978
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: the you know, in the media world and stuff. But

979
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: you'll also make some observations about men and women and drugs,

980
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: Like at one point you noticed that, for example, men

981
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: are much less inhibited in lighting up and such. And

982
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: I wonder if you've got other thoughts about differences between

983
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: men and women when it comes to their cannabis or

984
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: other drug use, or is that about it. I mean,

985
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: I just think that women, you know, like anything, it's

986
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more stigmatized when it comes to women.

987
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: Men with all things, have a greater sense of freedom

988
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: and a greater sense of liberation, whereas women, you know,

989
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 1: you find us hiding in the corner. You know, there's

990
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: a lot of shame attached to drug use, and especially

991
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: female cannabis use. It's just not the same as male

992
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: cannabis use. So it's a big, you know, point of

993
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: talking or talking point for me with regard to because

994
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: I you know, I want women to be loud and

995
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: proud and men don't get this drug for themselves. Like,

996
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot like watching you know, Johnny

997
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: Depp and Amber heard on trial and you're sitting there

998
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: He's being lauded as being this cool guy who drinks

999
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: you know, a half corraftive burlow in the mornings and

1000
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: his snorting lines of cocaine with Marilyn Manson, like and

1001
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: people love it. They're like, oh, she's a terrible woman.

1002
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: Look at him, He's so fun. Like that would just

1003
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: never happen, you know, if that were a woman, a

1004
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: female who was snorting lines of cocaine. And I mean

1005
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: it's so you know, hypocritical, and there's such a double

1006
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: standard for women and drugs that yeah, I'd like to

1007
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: I like to talk about you can you can do

1008
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: drugs and have a hugely successful life. I'm here to

1009
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: prove that, like, you can be a functioning person and

1010
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: also have a good time on the side. That doesn't

1011
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: just get to happen for men. Yeah, but I think

1012
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: when it comes to prominent women, if I google on

1013
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: on your name and drugs and video and you pop

1014
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: up on every single major talk show talking about this

1015
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: in addition to a host of other places, Um, so

1016
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: I really credit you. I mean I think actually when

1017
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of you know, my life's cause,

1018
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: which was ending marijuana prohibition and rolling back the broader

1019
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: war on drugs, I think the role that you've been playing,

1020
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: and also by getting out there, you know, not just

1021
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: two years ago, but six, seven, eight years ago, more

1022
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: years ago. About that, I really think you've made a

1023
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: positive contribution to shifting the culture and also to helping

1024
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: move along political sentiment in this way. So for that,

1025
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: I want to thank you. Oh my god, well, thank you.

1026
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yeah, and I also want to thank

1027
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: you Chelsea for joining me and my listeners on Psychoactive

1028
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: for this most enjoyable conversation. Absolutely, what a pleasure. Thank

1029
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: you for having me. Okay, okay, well take care. If

1030
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: you're enjoying Psychoactive, please tell your friends about it, or

1031
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: you can write us a review at Apple Podcasts or

1032
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We love to hear from

1033
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: our listeners. If you'd like to share your own stories,

1034
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: comes and ideas, then leave us a message at one

1035
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: eight three three seventh of nine. That's eight three three

1036
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: psycho zero, or you can email us at Psychoactive at

1037
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: protozoa dot com, or find me on Twitter at Ethan

1038
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: natal Man. You can also find contact information in our

1039
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 1: show notes. Psychoactive is a production of I Heart Radio

1040
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by me Ethan Nadelman. It's

1041
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: produced by Noam Osband and Josh Stain. The executive producers

1042
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel, Elizabeth Geesus and Darren Aronofsky

1043
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: from Protozoa Pictures, Alex Williams and Matt Frederick from My

1044
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and me Ethan Nadelman. Our music is by

1045
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: Ari Blucien and a special thanks to a Brio s

1046
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: F Bianca Grimshaw and Robert bb. Next week I'll be

1047
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: talking with Martin Lee all about c b D. He's

1048
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: the founder and head of Project CBD dot org. We're

1049
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: at this precipice as over nine d clinical trials now

1050
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: in effect with CBD. There's a massive amount of preclinical

1051
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: data that suggests that CBD shows utility and effectiveness and

1052
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: significant benefits in a number of areas for neurological diseases

1053
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: for certain mood disorders like anxiety I mentioned, also depression

1054
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: for pain. Also it's it's clear that those are the

1055
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: big three pain, anxiety, and depression. Subscribe to Cycleactive now

1056
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: see it, an't miss it.