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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: They definitely are two people that I think sort of

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Speaker 2: met their match as far as really being obsessed with

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Speaker 2: their image and the way that their family sort of

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Speaker 2: presented to the outside of the world as this sort

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Speaker 2: of perfect couple with these beautiful children.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor

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Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the

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Speaker 1: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career

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Speaker 1: research for my many audio and book projects has taken

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Speaker 1: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down

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Speaker 1: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers,

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Speaker 1: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true

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Speaker 1: crime cases. This is about the true 's writers make,

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Speaker 1: both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into

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Speaker 1: the unpublished details behind their stories. Most of us have

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Speaker 1: heard about Sherry Peppini. She's a woman who faked her

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Speaker 1: own kidnapping in twenty sixteen, which terrified her husband and

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Speaker 1: soon sparked outrage in her northern California community. Michael Beach

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Speaker 1: Nichols is the director and producer of the Netflix series

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Speaker 1: The Perfect Wife, the mysterious disappearance of Sherry Peppini, and

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Speaker 1: he tells us about his experience spending time with Sherry's husband,

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Speaker 1: Keith for the documentary series. So this is a story

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Speaker 1: I think that's been told. A lot of people are

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Speaker 1: familiar with it, a lot of people aren't. But I

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Speaker 1: think that your perspective here, knowing all the players and

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Speaker 1: it's so nebulous at times, the story gets confusing of

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Speaker 1: Sherry Peppini and certainly their personalities. I want some clarity on.

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Speaker 1: So this is you know, we're going to unravel this

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Speaker 1: as a story first, but you know, this story I

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Speaker 1: think is fascinating, whether you know it or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. When I actually first started, when I was

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Speaker 2: first brought onto the project, I had actually never heard

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Speaker 2: about the story. Somehow, you know, living on the East

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Speaker 2: I live in New York City. Somehow this just wasn't

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Speaker 2: on my radar. It's obviously happened in California, but it garnered,

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Speaker 2: you know, nationwide media attention, but somehow I was just

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Speaker 2: it slipped my radar. So when I first learned about it,

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Speaker 2: I was completely sucked in because it is it is

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Speaker 2: such a fascinating story that just keeps on sort of

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Speaker 2: going in another direction then you're sort of expecting. And

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Speaker 2: it lasts from about twenty sixteen up until really honestly

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Speaker 2: the present day, but the period of our time that

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Speaker 2: we spent telling the stories from twenty sixteen to twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two essentially.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of one of the themes of

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Speaker 1: this story for me is how well do you know

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Speaker 1: your spouse or how well do you know the person

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Speaker 1: that you sort of implicitly trust, whether it's a parent

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Speaker 1: or a child or your spouse. Because there's just such

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Speaker 1: a depth of deceit here for me that it's incredible

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Speaker 1: as a story. Why don't you set us up where

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Speaker 1: we are and who the main characters are in the story?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? So. This story takes place in a town called Redding, California,

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Speaker 2: which is in northern California. It's about two hours north

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Speaker 2: of Sacramento, so it's incredibly beautiful, mountains, super wooded. The

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Speaker 2: town is a bit different than a lot of other

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Speaker 2: towns in northern California. It's a very conservative sort of

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Speaker 2: town and the events of the story took place in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen in November, so really you have the backdrop

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Speaker 2: of the presidential election happening when everything starts taking place,

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Speaker 2: and so essentially the way the story begins is you

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Speaker 2: have this young family. You have a husband and wife,

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Speaker 2: Keith Peppini and his wife, Sherry Peppini. They have two

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Speaker 2: very young children. One is about two, the other is

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Speaker 2: a little bit under a year old, about eight months old.

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Speaker 2: On the morning of November two, twenty sixteen, Cherry goes

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Speaker 2: out for a jog and their house is basically it's

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Speaker 2: it's a pretty rural area, so the houses are sort

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Speaker 2: of spread apart, and she her typical jog apparently would

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Speaker 2: she would she would leave the house and jog down

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Speaker 2: to this mailbox. And the sailbox was basically all the

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Speaker 2: mailboxes for all of the houses in the community, about

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Speaker 2: a mile and a half away or so. So Sherry

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Speaker 2: goes on a jog. Meanwhile, Keith is at work. He

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Speaker 2: worked at Best Buy at this time. He comes home

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Speaker 2: from work later in the day around four o'clock or so,

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Speaker 2: and no one is home. His children are at home

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Speaker 2: from daycare, Cherry's not there. He starts, you know, calling

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Speaker 2: and texting. He decides to go drive down to the

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Speaker 2: mailboxes because he knows that she does like to jog there.

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Speaker 2: He drives down to the mailboxes. He finds a cell phone,

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Speaker 2: Cherry's cell phone with her earbuds and some hair. Some

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Speaker 2: of her hairs are sort of tangled than the airbuts

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Speaker 2: the cell phone is playing on repeat a song by

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Speaker 2: Michael Boublay, which is their wedding song. So Keith immediately

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Speaker 2: is freaking out. It looks like, you know what, the

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Speaker 2: hair is being ripped out. It looks like something has happened.

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Speaker 2: So he calls nine one one and it you know,

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Speaker 2: in a frantic panic, saying that his wife is gone.

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Speaker 2: She's been jogging, but she's not there. He finds out

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Speaker 2: that the kids are still at daycare. No one has

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Speaker 2: picked them up, which is incredibly unlike Sherry. So Keith

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Speaker 2: has his mother go pick up the kids, and law

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Speaker 2: enforcement comes to his house and.

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Speaker 1: Then he has this missing wife. And I'm assuming the

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Speaker 1: police first thing look at him. What do they do

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Speaker 1: in this situation? Do they follow through with the assumption

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Speaker 1: immediately that this is a missing woman or are they

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Speaker 1: looking at the husband first?

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Speaker 2: From my understanding, they're really doing a lot of things once,

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Speaker 2: So I yes, they are absolutely looking at the husband,

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Speaker 2: because that is obviously, you know, and in a lot

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Speaker 2: of these cases, that is the prime suspect, but they're

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Speaker 2: also trying to just build out a profile of who

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Speaker 2: share the PEDI is. They bring Keith down to the station,

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Speaker 2: they start interviewing him after of course, they do a

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Speaker 2: walk through of the house first, and Keith is kind

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Speaker 2: of showing them around the house, trying to give a

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Speaker 2: description of his wife what he thinks that she might

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Speaker 2: have been wearing on the jog. Then they bring him

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Speaker 2: to the police station, and we have a lot of

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Speaker 2: these interviews in the series because these are all recorded

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Speaker 2: in an interrogation room, and they you know, start asking

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Speaker 2: him if anything is wrong in their marriage, if there

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Speaker 2: are any stressors, And Keith is honestly sort of manic

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Speaker 2: in a lot of these interviews, and he's coming off

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Speaker 2: to someone who doesn't know him, to someone who doesn't

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Speaker 2: know the story is as as a person that is

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Speaker 2: seeming to be acting a little strange, acting a little

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Speaker 2: bit maybe suspicious, just because his mood is sort of

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Speaker 2: all over the place. But I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: that is also, you know, just what would you do

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Speaker 2: in that kind of situation, and that's what I always

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Speaker 2: sort of come back to myself, and I have no idea,

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Speaker 2: So it's really you don't ever want to judge the

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Speaker 2: way someone is behaving in the immediate aftermath, I think

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Speaker 2: of traumatic occurrence. But that is something that I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people started to immediately have these suspicions

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Speaker 2: of Keith, especially law enforcement, based on a lot of

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Speaker 2: these sort of interviews they were doing with him, when

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Speaker 2: he would just kind of be all over the place.

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Speaker 2: He'd be sort of laughing and joking at in one

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Speaker 2: moment and sort of almost crying in the next. And

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Speaker 2: at the same time that they're interviewing Keith, they also

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Speaker 2: start speaking with all of the neighbors we had access

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Speaker 2: through Floya, through all of these different telephone calls that

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Speaker 2: law enforcement had made to Keith and Sherry's neighbors, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of those calls are a little bit disturbing.

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Speaker 2: A lot of neighbors talked about hearing very loud arguments,

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Speaker 2: hearing them yell at one another. They started reaching out

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Speaker 2: to friends of Sherry and Keith, and some of the

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Speaker 2: friends would say that Sherry confided and then that Keith

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Speaker 2: had told her if she ever left him, that he

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Speaker 2: would kill her. Just very very alarming sort of conversations.

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Speaker 2: And then other neighbors would say other friends would say, no,

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Speaker 2: that's that's not true, Like they had a wonderful relationship.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where that's coming from. And so law

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Speaker 2: enforcement was just the way that they sort of explained

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Speaker 2: to us is they were always kind of coming back

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Speaker 2: to back to sort of zero, like we don't, like

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Speaker 2: every time we hear something negative about Keith or Sherry's

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Speaker 2: relationship with her, something positive. So they just didn't really

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Speaker 2: know what was what was happening Sherry when she went missing.

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Speaker 2: You know, her wallet was at home, it was full

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Speaker 2: of cash. That didn't seem like she had any of

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Speaker 2: her like ATM or credit cards. So there was just

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Speaker 2: a lot of unknowns and there were there were just

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Speaker 2: sort of really non motivations. Keith couldn't really lay out

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Speaker 2: anything as far as you know, why Sherry might have

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Speaker 2: left on her own. He thought that that was an impossibility.

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Speaker 2: He was convinced that she that she was kidnapped, because

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Speaker 2: Cherry is a you know, she at that time, she

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Speaker 2: was you know, in her early thirties. She was a

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Speaker 2: very sort of petite blonde woman, so there was this

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Speaker 2: sense that perhaps she had been abducted. Years ago in

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Speaker 2: the same community, a young woman who Cherry had actually

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Speaker 2: gone to high school with named Tara Smith, had gone

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Speaker 2: missing while on a jog and she was never found,

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Speaker 2: and that was a big case in the late nineties

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Speaker 2: that really, I think traumatized a lot of the community

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Speaker 2: and reading. There were a lot of people that we

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Speaker 2: spoke with who had actually been on searches for Tara Smith.

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Speaker 2: So everyone knew about this young blonde woman who went

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Speaker 2: missing on a jog in the late nineties, and so

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Speaker 2: Sherry's disappearance was bringing up all of these echoes of

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Speaker 2: that in the Reading community and amongst all these family

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Speaker 2: members and friends of Sherry. So essentially, they what they

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Speaker 2: end up doing is they end up giving Keith a

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Speaker 2: polygraph test because they're noticing that there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of speculation about Keith. A lot of people are are

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Speaker 2: bringing up his name in the media, and because the

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Speaker 2: media attention was becoming really overwhelming, they decided they wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this polygraph test with Keith so they could

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Speaker 2: clear him or or not to the kind of put

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Speaker 2: it to put it to rest. And they ended up

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Speaker 2: doing the polygraph he passed, and so he was he

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Speaker 2: was crossed off at that point in time, But there

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Speaker 2: were as as the case went on, there were several

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Speaker 2: other leads that there had been text conversation between Sherry

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Speaker 2: and a man that she had met on a work

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Speaker 2: business trip years ago. They had been texting up until

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Speaker 2: the day before Cherry went missing. This is a man

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Speaker 2: that was living in Michigan. He had come to California

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Speaker 2: for a work conference and Cherry and him were talking

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Speaker 2: about potentially meeting up. So law enforcement actually went to

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Speaker 2: Michigan and spoke with this man, and it sounded like

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Speaker 2: him and Sherry were just having these kind of emotional

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Speaker 2: texts back and forth, kind of kind of floridy, where

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Speaker 2: Sherry would essentially tell tell him, you know that Keith

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Speaker 2: was this really controlling husband and that you know, she

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Speaker 2: wasn't happy with him, and so they were kind of

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Speaker 2: just building out this fantasy of being together. But it

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Speaker 2: looks like that, you know, nothing ever happened between them,

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Speaker 2: and they were able to clear that that person, so

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Speaker 2: he was sort of crossed off at that point.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so when they're interviewing Keith and they're hearing these

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Speaker 1: stories of you know, the neighbors who are saying, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what I remember from the series is the neighbors were

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Speaker 1: saying it was loud, their arguments, it didn't seem like

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Speaker 1: there was physical violence happening, and clearly nobody called the

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Speaker 1: police right when they heard this. None of the neighbors

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Speaker 1: called the police for domestic violence, did they.

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Speaker 2: No, there was only there was only one instance where

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Speaker 2: at one point police did show up, and it turned

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Speaker 2: out they were responding because so when he worked for

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Speaker 2: Best Buy, you would install like home stereo systems. So

218
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Speaker 2: he has this incredible home stereo system, just the loudest

219
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Speaker 2: speakers you can imagine. And so apparently they were watching

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Speaker 2: an action movie and there were guns and all kinds

221
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Speaker 2: of stuff like that, and so police came over at

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Speaker 2: one point, but Keith and Cherry were both there and

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Speaker 2: they're like, no, we're just watching a movie. He really live.

224
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Speaker 2: So yeah, there's been there's been no allegations. The only

225
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Speaker 2: other thing that came up was there was an instance

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Speaker 2: of Keith and Sherry were at some friend's house. They

227
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Speaker 2: were all playing Wei and apparently Keith was playing this

228
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Speaker 2: fruit slice game and he accidentally like swung his arm

229
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Speaker 2: and hit Sherry in the eye, and so she had

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Speaker 2: a black eye. We've noticed a pattern of Sherry sort

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Speaker 2: of siloing different groups of friends and giving them different

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Speaker 2: versions of events. And this is something that is historically

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Speaker 2: we've found through Sherry's entire life that's a common thread

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Speaker 2: where she will tell one person one version of a story,

235
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Speaker 2: another person another version of a story, and only if

236
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Speaker 2: those two people come together will they ever figure out

237
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Speaker 2: the truth. So Sherry had told some people that Keith

238
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Speaker 2: had punched her in the eye, and then it told

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00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 2: other people that it had been this wei game. When

240
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Speaker 2: the police called the hosts of the party, they said, no, no,

241
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Speaker 2: we were all there. Everyone was laughing about it. It

242
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Speaker 2: was this horrible accident, but you know it was accident.

243
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Speaker 2: We witnessed it. So you started to see this pattern

244
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Speaker 2: that Sherry displayed of having some kind of incident, some

245
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Speaker 2: kind of physical incident, and then basically blaming the person

246
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Speaker 2: that she's with for it.

247
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Speaker 1: When Keith was talking to the police, did he frame

248
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Speaker 1: this as just the idealized marriage And they never had

249
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Speaker 1: kind of any issues except some of those loud fights

250
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Speaker 1: that she never showed any kind of erratic behavior. He

251
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Speaker 1: never lost his temper too badly more than any other

252
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Speaker 1: husband would.

253
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he did say. He admitted that they

254
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 2: would have sometimes loud arguments that they could get that

255
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,440
Speaker 2: especially Sherry could get a little bit a little bit angry,

256
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Speaker 2: and oftentimes when Scherry would get angry, she would leave

257
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Speaker 2: and she would just like peel out and drive off.

258
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Speaker 2: The only thing that Keith brought up that became that

259
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 2: was new information for law enforcement was the fact that

260
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Speaker 2: they had gotten a post nuptial agreement. And they got

261
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 2: this post nuptial agreement because he had come across some

262
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: texts on Sherry's phone that were between her and this

263
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 2: man from Michigan, essentially sort of talking about the fact

264
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 2: that they had just had a wonderful time together at

265
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,079
Speaker 2: this work conference. They were planning to see each other again.

266
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Speaker 2: Keith saw this on Sherry's phone. He had Cherry's phone,

267
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Speaker 2: he told us, because a friend of his was over

268
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,600
Speaker 2: at his house who was using his laundry machine. The

269
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 2: light bulb went out. Keith just grabbed Sherry's phone on

270
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,840
Speaker 2: the counter to use the flashlight, and then this like

271
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 2: text message came in and He's like who, and the

272
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,400
Speaker 2: text message was under a woman's name also, but then

273
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 2: he saw that the texts were kind of weird and

274
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 2: confronted at her about it. Cherry admitted to the fact

275
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 2: that she had met this guy, nothing had happened. She

276
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 2: was so sorry. So Keith was almost wanting to get

277
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 2: a divorce at that point. They didn't have this as

278
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 2: pre kids, but ended up deciding, you know what, we'll

279
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Speaker 2: just do a post nuptial agreement. We'll separate our finances

280
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Speaker 2: because Keith was really worried that if they did end

281
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Speaker 2: up getting a divorce, you know, that he would lose

282
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Speaker 2: he would lose half of his half of his money.

283
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 2: So they did had this post nuptial. So that was

284
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Speaker 2: one thing that was that law enforcement think flagged as

285
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 2: some kind of stressor in the relationship.

286
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Speaker 1: Was that part of what I feel like was framed

287
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 1: as Keith is released in g and controlling with money.

288
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Speaker 1: Is that part of this also too?

289
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think that that is certainly how

290
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 2: some people have framed that idea. I mean, the way

291
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 2: that Keith explained it to us is Sherry was really

292
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 2: really bad with money, and so he would basically be

293
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 2: enlisted to help her just kind of be responsible like

294
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 2: she just had when they got together, she had a

295
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 2: lot of credit card debt, I don't. I think she

296
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 2: had a horrible credit score. And Keith is like the opposite.

297
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 2: He's just very, very very on top of members and

298
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 2: finances and things like that. So I can see how

299
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 2: that could be construed as sort of controlling. But for Keith,

300
00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,040
Speaker 2: this for him was an ideal, perfect relationship. And so

301
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 2: when that image was fractured by finding out that Sherry

302
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 2: was having this kind of emotional text message exchange with

303
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 2: another man, it sort of changed everything about how he

304
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 2: viewed his marriage. And so I think he was so

305
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 2: frightened of the possibility of the marriage ending that he

306
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 2: just wanted to basically create a way for him to

307
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 2: emerge unscape if it did end up. Yeah, they did

308
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 2: getting a divorce. Now.

309
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Speaker 1: I believe Keith's someone who said this. He was describing

310
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Speaker 1: Sherry as sort of the ideal kidnapping victim, and I

311
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Speaker 1: think he said, like, she's gorgeous and blonde and tiny

312
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 1: and hot essentially, and you know, now kind of knowing

313
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Speaker 1: the end of the story in a weird way. I

314
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 1: think it's kind of sweet that he said that. He

315
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: just seemed like there was just adoration for her all

316
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: over the place at the beginning of this.

317
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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, I think that. I mean, one of the

318
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 2: most fascinating elements of this story to to me into

319
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 2: the film team were the scrap books that Sherry Sherry

320
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 2: would make and Keith was fully, you know, sort of

321
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,439
Speaker 2: a participant in. She just had these incredibly elaborate photo

322
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 2: collages and kept every momento. Keith is the same way.

323
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: He even had middle school notes that they'd passed back

324
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 2: back and forth to each other. Because Keith and Sherry

325
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,719
Speaker 2: were one another's first boyfriend and girlfriend when they were

326
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,640
Speaker 2: when they were in middle school, so they'd known each

327
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 2: other for so long, and so they both had this

328
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: habit of sort of keeping everything, and once they were married,

329
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 2: you can just look like there are dozens of these

330
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 2: scrap books that just show Keith and Sherry just you know, kissing,

331
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 2: running on the beach, holding hands. It just looks like

332
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 2: like like the storybook romance out of like Princess Bride

333
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 2: or something like that, where you just are able to

334
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,400
Speaker 2: kind of see how they're viewing, you know, their sort

335
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 2: of early marriage years. And then once they had the kids,

336
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,200
Speaker 2: they're just having all these photographs of the kids. But Yeah,

337
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 2: they definitely are two people that I think sort of

338
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 2: met their match as far as really being obsessed with

339
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 2: their image and the way that their family sort of

340
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 2: presented to the outside world as this sort of perfect,

341
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 2: this perfect couple with these beautiful children.

342
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 1: Now, she wrote somewhere that what he really wanted was

343
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty's Housewife. I mean, does that tally with

344
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: what you've known about their relationship and speaking to Keith?

345
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 2: No, it really, I mean it really doesn't. You know.

346
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm only obviously I'm getting I haven't spoken with Sherry,

347
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: and so I'm you know, I'm getting Keith's side. But

348
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 2: I from everything that Keith told me, and I believe Keith,

349
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 2: Sherry was really really happy working when she So she

350
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 2: was working for AT and T. She was like a saleswoman.

351
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 2: She'd go around to different branches and speak to customers.

352
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Speaker 2: And she ended up getting laid off. And this has

353
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: sort of been the lead up to her disappearance. She

354
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,880
Speaker 2: ended up getting laid off, I think just it wasn't

355
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 2: anything to do with her performance. I think it just

356
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 2: had to do with restructuring. And so she became a

357
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: stay at home mom at that point, and that to

358
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,199
Speaker 2: it seems like a bit of strife between them because

359
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 2: Cherry was not happy being at home. Seemed like she

360
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 2: really thrived off of, you know, being an independent person,

361
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 2: being an independent working person, sort of having these these

362
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: conversations with you know, her peers, and now she was home,

363
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 2: she was with very young kids. She wasn't sort of

364
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: getting that kind of you know, sort of like leaving

365
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 2: the house pure connection, so she was becoming unhappy. Keith

366
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 2: also just wanted her to go back to work. From

367
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 2: what my understanding was, he thought that she should because

368
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: he could tell that she wasn't as happy as she

369
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 2: used to be. So, yeah, it seems like it seems

370
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 2: like that was a moment where things, the sort of

371
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: balance of the relationships sort of shifted. And we also

372
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 2: learned that Cherry received a severance package when she was

373
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,159
Speaker 2: laid off from AT and T, and she took that

374
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: money and she decided to get a breast augmentation surgery,

375
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 2: which is something Keith said they sort of argued about

376
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 2: because he's like, you don't need this. That seems like

377
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 2: a you know, why are you going to like save

378
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 2: your money, save your money, like you don't we don't

379
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 2: need to, like spend this money. You don't have a

380
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 2: job right now. You know, if I guess, if you

381
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 2: want to, you can do whatever you want, but I

382
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: don't think you need to. So those are sort of

383
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: things that, looking in hindsight, looked like it might have

384
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,959
Speaker 2: caused sort of some kind of rift between them. On

385
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: the eve of Sherry disappearing.

386
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: So while she is missing, what is her family saying

387
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: about all of this? I think you all interviewed her sister,

388
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: Is that right?

389
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 2: We did. Yeah, we interviewed her sister, Sheila extensively. They

390
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: were I mean they were horrified. I mean, Sherry's sister,

391
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 2: Sheila was pregnant at the time, and her husband was

392
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 2: really worried about all the stress that was that was

393
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 2: placed on her, and he was really worried about the

394
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 2: baby being affected, you know, the unborn baby essentially being

395
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 2: affected because of all this, you know, the stress and

396
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 2: adrenaline kind of coursing through here on a daily basis

397
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: while she was out there helping with these searches. And yeah,

398
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: the parents were also really concerned. When law enforcement talked

399
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 2: to and they said that Sherry, you know, she had

400
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 2: left for a couple of days here and there, but

401
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 2: they thought there was no way she would leave for

402
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 2: this long, But it did come out that Sherry had

403
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: actually run away from home in high school. I believe

404
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: it was their sophomore year of high school she she left,

405
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: and she went down to southern California for a couple

406
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 2: of years, and she went up to the Bay Area

407
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: for a little while. So she had sort of left

408
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: left home and sort of CouchSurfing. So we found that

409
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 2: there was a little bit of a pattern of Sherry

410
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: just kind of I've been leaving at times in her life,

411
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 2: but at this at this point in time, her sister

412
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 2: and her parents, you know, they were just really really

413
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: worried that she had she had been abducted, essentially.

414
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: So once Keith passes this polygraph test, which I have

415
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: to think they did that to try to pressure him

416
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: to give them more information because obviously it's in admissible

417
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: import and obviously it's not accurate. But I think that's

418
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: when a lot of investigators say, as well, we use

419
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: it as a kind of an intimidation factor. But they

420
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: must have started suspecting that at least Keith wasn't involved.

421
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: Are they still thinking it's a kidnapping once they crossed

422
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: him off the list.

423
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 2: From what they told us, they were still essentially exploring

424
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: the two possibilities. They were exploring the abduction possibility, and

425
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: that was more of the fbit. What the FBI was

426
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: sort of looking into, and then what the local law

427
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: enforcement was looking into was this idea of her basically

428
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: walking out and meeting up with someone they thought it

429
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: could be that person in Michigan. It wasn't him. There

430
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: were other names that Keith gave them. He gave them,

431
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, basically the names of ex boyfriends, this person

432
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: James Rays, an ex husband named David Dreyfus, and they

433
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 2: were supposed to be reaching out to all of these

434
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: people just to see Keith was also doing his own

435
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: investigation with some of his some of his good friends.

436
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: There's this family who were involved in the search for

437
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: tera Smith. One of the sons was a Navy seal. Basically,

438
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 2: the three of them with some other friends kind of

439
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 2: had this war room where they were sort of trying

440
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: to figure out where Sherry could be on their own,

441
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: and they were actually going around the neighborhood knocking on doors,

442
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: basically trying to find Cherry on their own. So there

443
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: was some almost extra legal activity going on because oftentimes

444
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: they were also armed, and that's something that law enforcement

445
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 2: was was, you know, kind of telling them to back

446
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: off and you know, just you guys, because these are

447
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 2: all us like really big dudes, and so they didn't

448
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 2: want them to just kind of like intimidating a lot

449
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 2: of people. But you know, I mean, the bottom line

450
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: was Keith and his family. They were just so concerned

451
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: and it just had no idea where Sherry was, and

452
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: so many tips were coming in, and so many of

453
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 2: these tips were unhelpful. So many psychics were calling and

454
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 2: telling them that Sherry's, you know, Sherry's by this, you know,

455
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: in this river, or Sherry's and her remains are in

456
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: a barrel, and so they were just kind of trying

457
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 2: to Unfortunately, you know, you don't know what's credible and

458
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: what's not. So they were just trying to chase down

459
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 2: every single thing that they could because they just they

460
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: didn't know where she was and they just desperately wanted

461
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: to find her. So Keith was just not sleeping, not eating,

462
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: and so Sheila was often just staying with him and

463
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 2: trying to almost be Keith's skilter to a certain degree,

464
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 2: because they didn't want Keith to get all of these

465
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: kind of tips telling him where to find his dead

466
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 2: wife because it was just, you know, obviously horrible for

467
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 2: his psyche.

468
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: And she believed him. Then Sheila, right, she never suspected

469
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: that he was involved in any way.

470
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: I mean, her husband, she told us that her husband

471
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: brought up maybe it could be Keith.

472
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.

473
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: That's the part of this that's so that's so hard

474
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 2: when someone originally, you know, initially goes missing, is that

475
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: you do have people closest to you sort of just

476
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: always suspecting the person that's closest to the missing person.

477
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: And so she did have a moment where she was

478
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: like wondering if there was a thing, But then Keith's

479
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: sister Suzanne came in and was like, there's no way,

480
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: There's absolutely no way. Their relationship was credible, like, Keith

481
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: is not any kind of violent person. And so I

482
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: think that that was put to bed pretty pretty fast.

483
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: I think anyone could tell how Keith just from Keith's demeanor,

484
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 2: from the fact that Keith was just so just acting

485
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: like someone that was all he wanted to do was

486
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: find his wife, and of course that's something that could

487
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 2: be you know, a talented actor, chameleon could kind of

488
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: put that maybe performance on. But that's I think that's

489
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: a rare thing. I think everyone saw Keith as a

490
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 2: very credible husband who is alarmed.

491
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: When does the next thing happen? Do we hear from

492
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: the kidnappers in Cherry's situation or kidnapper?

493
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, So essentially Cherry is gone for twenty two days.

494
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: Keith at this point is just imagining the worst Cherry.

495
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: Cherry's sister Sheila had had. After only a couple of days,

496
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 2: she had kind of resigned herself to the fact that

497
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: her sister was probably dead. And then on Thanksgiving morning

498
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, there is a series of nine more one

499
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: calls around four am and they're coming from Yolo County,

500
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: which is near Sacramento, and it was this woman who

501
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: was in shackles on the side of the road and

502
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: a trucker had pulled over, and the woman said her

503
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: name was Sherry Peppini, And so immediately they call Kyle Wallace,

504
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: who was the lead investigator from Shasta County. They also

505
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: call Keith, so Keith immediately gets in the car. He

506
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: goes and picks up Sheila. They drive down to Yolo

507
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: County Detective Kyle Wallace drives to Yellow County. Everyone is

508
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 2: just sort of stunned and shocked when they get there

509
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: and they see Sherry in the hospitals. She's in horrible shape.

510
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: She's emaciated. She was already very petite. She looks like

511
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: she's lost another twenty pounds in the three weeks that

512
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: she's been gone. Her hair has been chopped off. She

513
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: had a chain around her waist and one of her

514
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: hands was shackled to it when she was found by

515
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: the side of the road. Her skin is covered in

516
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: ska and bruises and some kind of rash, just horrible,

517
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: horrible bruises. Looks like her nose is broken, and they

518
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: find a brand on her back spelling out what looks

519
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 2: like the words exodus, law enforcement. Immediately, you know, everyone

520
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: is trying to, you know, care for her, assure her

521
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: that she's okay. She is incredibly nervous and doesn't want

522
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: to even speak to law enforcement because she's saying that

523
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: law enforcement is somehow involved, and she's saying they told

524
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: her that law enforcement was involved. So Keith finally comes

525
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: into the room and they have this incredible moment of

526
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: this reunion, and you can hear it's all recorded on audio,

527
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: and they start essentially having Keith ask her the questions

528
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: because she doesn't want to speak to law enforcement and

529
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: so this is very unorthodox. So she tells Keith that

530
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: it was two Hispanic women that abducted her in a

531
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: dark colored suv and they wore mass so she never

532
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: saw their faces, and they decided there was some kind

533
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: of some kind of violent altercation that morning and one

534
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: of them shot the other one and then released Sharry

535
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: on the side of the road. And so so that

536
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 2: is sort of where they're starting with. On the first

537
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: day that Sherry, Sherry's made this reappearance. But meanwhile, you know,

538
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: media is so so happy. It's this Thanksgiving Day miracle,

539
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: everyone calls it. You know, Sheerry's back on Thanksgiving, and

540
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: so everyone is just so so relieved. On the way

541
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: to from one ambulance to another hospital for Sharry to

542
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: get some more tests done, she learns that Trump has

543
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: been elected president and she's very excited about that. She

544
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: hadn't known that because she was in captivity. And so

545
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: essentially after that, law enforcement then starts to do these

546
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: really long interviews with Sherry to try to figure out

547
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: more details about what's happened.

548
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: And had these two Hispanic women who had kidnapped her,

549
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: had they reached out and what was the point? What

550
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: did she say she believed it was the point of

551
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: of all of this and why her Yeah.

552
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: And I think that became a real, uh, sort of

553
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: sticking point for a lot of you know, the public,

554
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: a lot of law enforcement is that there wasn't really

555
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: a clear motivation for why these people had taken her.

556
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: The fact that they spoke Spanish also meant that Cherry

557
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: could not understand what they were saying. So Sherry couldn't

558
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: give a lot of details about about, you know, sort

559
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: of what was happening, what they were saying. The only

560
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: things that sort of came out was she's She had

561
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: mentioned that they had told her that they were going

562
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: to sell her to someone, and and her buyer was

563
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: a cop. So there was some there was some hints

564
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: of sex trafficking and with a law enforcement officer maybe

565
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: being interested in buying. But of course that was something

566
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: that a lot of people had questions about, just because statistically,

567
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: people that are abducted for sex trafficking, you know, tend

568
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: to be much younger. They tend to It tends to

569
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: be something that is not just you know, sort of

570
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: a stranger being abducted off the street. Shery was also

571
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: quite a bit older than that demographic would typically be,

572
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: so yes, there wasn't There was no communication with any

573
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: with any of the alleged kidnappers. So motivation was a

574
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: big was a big question, and I think that and

575
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: that was never really answered, I think to anyone's satisfaction.

576
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like except for Keith, I mean, he

577
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: just was so happy right for her to be home.

578
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: Did he question her in any way at all other

579
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: than you know, are you okay? And and can I

580
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: take you home and take care of you?

581
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really it's really fascinating because Keith told us

582
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: that the very first moment that he saw Sherry in

583
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: the hospital, after she had been gone for three weeks

584
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: and he was about to have for the first time,

585
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: lay eyes on her, he says that when they first

586
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: made eye contact, he had this moment where he thought

587
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: that she might be lying, oh yeah. So when he

588
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: told us that we are you know, our jaws sort

589
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: of dropped. And then he told us that once he

590
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: went over and hugged her and felt all of the

591
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: scabs and saw the bruises and just saw her the

592
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: state of her body.

593
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: All of that.

594
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: Doubt just completely went away. It wasn't anything that he

595
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: felt incredible shame for feeling that, but later he would

596
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: tell us that during therapy. So Sherry started therapy after

597
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: her abduction and it would be four hours a week,

598
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: split into two sessions, and she did this therapy with Keith,

599
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: and they went to these sessions for about four years.

600
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: So this is hundreds and hundreds of hours of therapy

601
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: that the two of them went to. And in one

602
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: of these sessions, the therapists had asked Keith if he

603
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: thought that Sherry could have done any of this to herself,

604
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: and Keith told her that he thought maybe she could have,

605
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: and he then told us this story about Sherry. In

606
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: the early stages of their relationship, Keith had noticed that

607
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: she had these two scars on her back, these two

608
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: sort of symmetrical scars on each side of her of

609
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: her spine, about an inch inch and a half long each,

610
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: and he asked Sherry about those, and Sherry told him

611
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: that it was an ex boyfriend, James Reyes, who had

612
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: had taken two knives, one knife in each hand and

613
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: stabbed her in the back, and he was just like,

614
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is this is horrifying. He found

615
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: out later through one of Sherry's best friends who we

616
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: interview in the series, Jennifer Harrison, that Jennifer had been

617
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: told a different story by Sherry. Cherry had told Jennifer

618
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: and her father had taken a box cutter and held

619
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: her down as a punishment and cut these you know,

620
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: cuts into her back. Then Sherry admitted to Jennifer that

621
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: she had actually done it to herself, and Keith found

622
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: that out from Jennifer, and for Keith that was like, what,

623
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: this is so strange because Keith is just very in

624
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: some ways kind of a sheltered guy, Like he's just

625
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: this incredibly He is sort of the stereotypical, like wholesome,

626
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: like all American guy who just kind of believes the

627
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: best in people and you know, takes people out their word.

628
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: And so as he's finding out that his wife was

629
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: sort of capable of self home and then blaming her

630
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: father and then blaming her next boyfriend, he was starting

631
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: to wonder if there was anything to these injuries that

632
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: Sherry had had had gotten from her abduction, and so

633
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: he was starting to wonder. But every time he would

634
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: start to wonder about it, he would just be like,

635
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: this is insane. She was so beat up. How could

636
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: she have done this to herself. There's there's no way,

637
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: there's no way anyone would have ever done this to themselves.

638
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: And also, he was just so invested in being a

639
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: good husband and having his wife back that for him,

640
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 2: his entire relationship, his entire family was all built on

641
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: this foundation that she had been abducted. Because if had

642
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,239
Speaker 2: she not been abducted, had she been making this up,

643
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: had she done this to herself, then then everything would

644
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: be over. His perfect romance, his perfect marriage, is perfect wife, like,

645
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: none of that would be real because she it would

646
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: have all been you know, this this lie. So for him,

647
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: he just kept coming back to it is so impossible

648
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: to imagine that she actually that this is a hoax.

649
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: I have to just take her for at her word,

650
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 2: even though there are a lot of things that are

651
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: a little bit weird, the fact that she doesn't remember

652
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: a lot of things. She has a hard time remembering,

653
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: you know, getting in the car with them, and they

654
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: so so Sherry said on the jog this suv pulls

655
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: up and these two women are in the suv and

656
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: they're basically asking for help. So she goes over to

657
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: the car. They step out, they have a gun. They

658
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: get her in the car, but of course Sherry says

659
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: that these women are always wearing masks, and so this

660
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 2: begs the question, you know, why would Sherry go over

661
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: to an suv with these two women who are both

662
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: covering their faces in masks and sort of waving her over.

663
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: You know, it seems like a very suspicious, you know,

664
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 2: sort of circumstance, like why would you sort of approach

665
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: people like that are wearing masks. But so anyway, so

666
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: they are all of these like little questions. And Sherry

667
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: also had a lot of just sort of strange moments

668
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: that she would talk about that happened during her abduction

669
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: where she she was essentially she just I had been

670
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: chained out. She had a chain around her waist that

671
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: was chained to the sort of pipe in the closet

672
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 2: that the chain was long enough that she could lie

673
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: in a mattress that was on the floor. They gave

674
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: her a little like office garbage can to use as

675
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: a bathroom, and they were just sort of feed her

676
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: like kind of scraps, like black beans, banana, like, just

677
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: like not a lot of food, and Sherry claimed that

678
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: she thought the food was drugged, and so she was

679
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 2: also saying, well, I was drugged a lot of the times.

680
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: So I don't really remember a lot of things that

681
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: were happening in this in this house. So I think

682
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: that Keith was always sort of questioning Sherry and asking,

683
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, about what happened, and her answers were never

684
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: really satisfactory to him or to law enforcement for that matter.

685
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: No one really could get get too many details. And

686
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: the sketch, the sketches that eventually came out of the

687
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: two Hispanic women were so sort of generic and and

688
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: most of their faces were covered that it just seemed

689
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: like like we're never going to find these people like

690
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: this is these don't look like real people.

691
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: And what is the reaction from the Hispanic community and

692
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: reading and around that when they come under suspicion. I

693
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: don't know how long that lasts with the police, but

694
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: I'm surely they must have felt offended to a certain extent,

695
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: or were they cooperative or what.

696
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: Everything that we've learned about that reaction was that there

697
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: was a lot of fear. There was a lot of fear,

698
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: especially if there was two women going out together. A

699
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: lot of two women didn't want to be together. To

700
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: Hispanic women wouldn't want to be seen out in public

701
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: together because everyone was sort of so on edge. And

702
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: this is also taking place in you know, twenty sixteen,

703
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: when you obviously have the election of Trump and you

704
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: do have this demonization of Hispanic people coming from the

705
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: White House, and you have the Emerald Triangle, which is

706
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: very close to Reading, which is sort of notorious for

707
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, sort of organized crime around

708
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 2: cannabis industry pre legalization. So you do have missing people,

709
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: you know, sort of happening in that part of northern California,

710
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: and so you know, the idea of someone of a

711
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: mom being sex trafficked or being abducted by some kind

712
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: of like gang member. This was all sort of leading

713
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: to a lot of paranoia in the community of Redding,

714
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: where a lot of a lot of women, especially were

715
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, not wanting to go out on jobs by themselves,

716
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: and we're basically taking self defense classes and running with

717
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: mace and that kind of thing. So people were just like,

718
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: what is happening in Redding, where we have Tara Smith

719
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: go missing in nineteen ninety seven, I think, and then

720
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: Sherry Peppini goes missing in twenty sixteen. You know, Tera

721
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: was never found. Scherry, thank god, was but she was

722
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: so beaten up, so just brutalized that she's not even

723
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 2: really speaking to the public anymore. Cherry from twenty sixteen

724
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty two really didn't really leave the house

725
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 2: very much. I mean she really She had Keith cover

726
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: all the windows with the big curtains and sheets. She

727
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to go out in public anywhere. If Keith

728
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 2: and Sherry did ever leave the house, they would leave town,

729
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: so people didn't know them because there was so much

730
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: media come into their house trying to get interviews with Sherry,

731
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: and Sharry didn't want to speak to the media at all.

732
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: Keith had only spoken to the media to try to

733
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: drum up awareness of Sherry's disappearance, but then once she

734
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: was back, he had sort of opened Pandora's box, and

735
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: the media still wanted to continue talking to him and

736
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: figure out, Okay, now she's back, you have to tell us, like,

737
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 2: what is happening, what's law enforcement asking you? Who abducted her,

738
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: and so they sort of hunked her down and were

739
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: just in their house all the time, going to therapy

740
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: twice a week, and Keith just described walking on eggshells

741
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: essentially all the time because Sherry had such a level

742
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: of PTSD. She'd sleep with the lights on every night.

743
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: She would get scared by any kind of noises in

744
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: the house. If you'd come down the stairs and Sherry

745
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: was downstairs, she would get startled and start screaming. And

746
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: so Keith was just sort of trying to do anything

747
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: that it took to protect to make her feel safe

748
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: and comfortable, while also being a little bit freaked out

749
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: that whoever had abducted her could come back and could

750
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: try to take her again, try to take the children,

751
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: because they just didn't know what the motivation was. And

752
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 2: so it just sounds like this period of time where

753
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: Erry's family members, Keith and her little children were just

754
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: constant witness to Sherry's PTSD and all of these sort

755
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 2: of triggers that she had, and it just really ends

756
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 2: up taking its toll. As you see in the series,

757
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: there's this incredibly heartbreaking moment. It's a home video where

758
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: Sherry is sitting at the table and she is about

759
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: to try this spicy hot sauce and Keith is like,

760
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 2: just take a tiny little bit. She is a tortilla,

761
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: and she kind of dips a little bit of the

762
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: hot sauce on the tortilla and she takes a bite

763
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: and she starts just kind of coughing and coughing. And

764
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: her young son, who is about seven or eight at

765
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: this point, he comes over and it seems like, you know,

766
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 2: he's like, Mom, are you okay? And they're kind of laughing,

767
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: and Cherry can't talk because she's coughing, and then he

768
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: just like breaks down and just is like sobbing and

769
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: sobbing and hugging his mother, and you can just for us,

770
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,479
Speaker 2: that really illustrated. I think how much the children had

771
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: grown accustomed to seeing Cherry being upset and just feeling

772
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: sad or feeling scared for her. And so her son

773
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: she's just having some hot sauce and kind of coughing

774
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: and her son is just like sobbing, And Yeah, that

775
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: really kind of says so much to us. I think

776
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: about the effect of Sherry's behavior on her on her

777
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: children and her very young children.

778
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: So this drags on for years, poor Keith and the kids.

779
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: This drags on for years and years. When do the

780
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: tables turn on Sherry? Is it out of the blue

781
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: that they're starting to test DNA on her clothing?

782
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the DNA. They end up finally doing the

783
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: DNA testing twenty twenty, and it ended up taking so

784
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: long because apparently, and this is this is a big

785
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: question for all of us, like why did it take

786
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 2: so long to test this DNA? Because is when Cherry

787
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: was found there there was DNA on her clothing that

788
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: belonged to both a male and a female, and Cherry

789
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 2: had only given a story about two females, So there

790
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: was just always this question, who's male DNAs on Sherry's clothes?

791
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: So law enforcement apparently for law enforcement to do these

792
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: DNA tests, there are just a lot of logistical hurdles.

793
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: You have to get all kinds of approvals, and you

794
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: also have to apparently do some fundraising. It sounds like

795
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: from like the local Shasta County Sheriff's office. It's apparently

796
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: incredibly expensive to do some of these tests, and so

797
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: they basically just were not able to get that completed

798
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: for four years. That process, wow, which is hard to

799
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 2: wrap your head around, because as soon as they got

800
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: the clear, they got clear to do the testing, they

801
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 2: immediately got a familial DNA hit and so it was

802
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: everything moved very fast at that point. So they got

803
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: a familiar DNA hit, which meant that there was someone

804
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: had done twenty three and meters or something like that

805
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: who was related to the person whose DNA was found

806
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: in Cherry's clothing. It went led back to an ex boyfriend,

807
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 2: this person, James Rays, who lived in Coasta Mesa, which is,

808
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: you know, an Orange county very close to Los Angeles.

809
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: The DNA hit was with him. So law enforcement detective

810
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: Kyle Wallace from Sasta County and an FBI agent they

811
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: go down to Coasta Mesa. This is in August of

812
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and they do a three hour interview with James,

813
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: and the audio of all of that exists, and at

814
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 2: first James is basically telling law enforcement he yes, who

815
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: used to date Cherry back in two thousand and two,

816
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: two thousand and three era they dated for a couple

817
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: of years wow, And he says he hasn't seen her.

818
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: Law enforcement continues to push, push, and he finally admits

819
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: to everything. And so James's story is that he had

820
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: been in the hospital because he had some kind of infection.

821
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: Cherry had heard about it. She had sent him a

822
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: care package when he was in the hospital. This is

823
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: around twenty fifteen twenty sixteen period, so this is before

824
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: she disappeared, and that sort of resparked their communications. They

825
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: would text with each other quite a bit. Cherry then

826
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: went on to send James another care package that had

827
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: a burner phone and asked him to communicate with her

828
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: on this burner phone. So this is the sort of

829
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: first red flag. So Cherry and James are communicating on

830
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: these burner phones. Cherry had one for herself too, and

831
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: she starts telling James that Keith is abusive. Keith is controlling.

832
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: Standard standard is what they say to that. Yeah, I

833
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: mean just like that's how you manipulate someone, right, Yeah.

834
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: Just make James feel sort of like the Knight and

835
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: Shine armor. This is something that we found that she

836
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: had done to this person at Michigan as well, where

837
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: she was just trying to sort of, yeah, get the

838
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: attention of someone. You know, my husband is so horrible,

839
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: My life is horrible. So she asks James to pick

840
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 2: her up in reading so James drives up to Reading.

841
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: He it's about an eight or nine hour drive. He

842
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 2: ends up driving up the night before. He sleeps in

843
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: Trader Joe's parking lot. The next morning, he reaches out

844
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: to Sherry. She tells him where she's going to be,

845
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: which is going to be by those mailboxes that she

846
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: would jog to. The way that James describes it is,

847
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 2: she gets in his car, sits in the back seat,

848
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: and then basically just lies down in the back seat,

849
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 2: and he carives her to Coast to Mesa. He says

850
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: they didn't really talk a lot in the car, but

851
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: he just felt like she was traumatized and sort of

852
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: wanted to give her space, and you know, brought her

853
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 2: into his house. She wanted to go in the back bedroom.

854
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: She asked if he could put boards up over the

855
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: windows because she didn't want I guess the neighbor's house

856
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: is kind of close. She didn't want any neighbors to

857
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: see in. So he put these boards up. He used

858
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: to have boards up in the room anyway, because it

859
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: used to be a grow room where he would grow cannabis.

860
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: So he puts up these boards and just kind of

861
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: lets Sherry live in his house. He's meanwhile, he's working,

862
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: he is he was playing hockey. I think he was

863
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: working at a a nice gating rink at the same time,

864
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: so he'd be at work during the day, he'd come

865
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: home in the evening. And after a few days Sherry

866
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: started having these injuries. He came to learn that she

867
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: was injuring herself, and he thought that this was very strange.

868
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: He comes across as someone who is sort of in

869
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: love with Sherry, sort of hoping that her relationship with

870
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: her husband is crumbling and maybe her and him can

871
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: get back together. So he's being a little bit careful

872
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 2: with what he's asking her in terms of these injuries

873
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: that she's creating. And then things start to get even

874
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: weirder because then he says that she asks him to

875
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: help injure her, and he's incredibly weirded out by this,

876
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: doesn't want to do it. I think she's a very

877
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: persuasive person, which we've seen from her history, and so

878
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: he agrees that he'll know bake hockey pucks off of

879
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: her body to help create bruises. He did a cross

880
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: check on her shoulder, on her arm where she is

881
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: this horrible, horrible bruise. And then the sort of capping

882
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: moment is when she wants him to grand her. So

883
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: he goes to the store. He buys a wood burning

884
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: kit and he brands what she wants on her shoulder.

885
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: He doesn't really even understand what it is. He's just

886
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: seems really, really just disturbed by this whole thing. He

887
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 2: also says that Sherry, you know, has basically been like

888
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: reducing what she's been eating this whole time, so she's

889
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: been losing all this weight. She got all these rashes

890
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: on her arms because she wanted to clean his house

891
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: because it was kind of a party house that James

892
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: was looking in, you know, I mean, he's a younger

893
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 2: guy athlete. It just seems like it was like a

894
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: bro house, and so Sherry wanted to clean it up.

895
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 2: And apparently her skin is very sensitive. She got a

896
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 2: lot of rashes from just scrubbing the floors and trying

897
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: to sort of clean up the house. So then on

898
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 2: you know, the night before Thanksgiving, she basically tells James

899
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: that she wants to go back home. James has been

900
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, at the time, he didn't have a TV

901
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 2: in the house, but he was aware of the fact

902
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: that local news was covering and national news was covering

903
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: the fact that Sherry was disappeared. So he did know

904
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: that Sherry everyone thought Sherry was missing. And so I

905
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: think this all added to perhaps why he kind of

906
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: went along with a lot of these bizarre requests, because

907
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: I think that he could tell that she was trying

908
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 2: to kind of build up some kind of a story

909
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: to explain her disappearance, because it was just, you know,

910
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: good Morning America is talking about I mean, just everyone

911
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: is talking about this, Yeah, her being missing, and she's

912
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: in his house, and so he's just like, this is

913
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: he seems like a very earnest, naive guy who just

914
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: truly thought he was helping this friend of his, this

915
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: woman who he I think still had feelings for protecting

916
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 2: her from her husband. But now all the media is

917
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: reporting on it, so the whole thing for him, it

918
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: just sounded like this total just sort of bizarre, surreal experience.

919
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: When she asked him if he could take her home,

920
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: you know, he was he was a little bit annoyed

921
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: because he thought she might they might have some you know,

922
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 2: a relationship, they might they might get back together.

923
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: Did they sleep together while he was.

924
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: With her, No, he said no, Yeah, he said they

925
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: never slept together. The sort of theory of how the

926
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: DNA got on her clothes is essentially that they just

927
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: washed their clothes together and some of the seminole fluid

928
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: seminole fluid from you know, his underwear or something like

929
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: that got on hers. So that's his story at least,

930
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 2: and he also took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph

931
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: after law enforcement, you know, got his story. But of course, yeah,

932
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 2: as we know that those aren't those aren't always credible.

933
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: But he said they never had sex. He said that

934
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: she would just basically be in the room all day

935
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: and then he would help her with these injuries. So

936
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: before he dropped her off, he said that she asked

937
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 2: him to go to the hardware store to buy a chain,

938
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: to buy a lock, to buy zip ties, and he

939
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 2: didn't again consistent with sort of the way that James is,

940
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: He didn't ask her a lot of questions. She just

941
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: did it, and then he drove her to Yolo County.

942
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: She got out the car around four am, and she

943
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: took the chain, she took the lock, she took the

944
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 2: zip ties, and then when she she was found bound

945
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: essentially running along the side of the highway with the story.

946
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: And what's really interesting is that when she's first, when

947
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: the first person is calling nine one one, you can

948
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: hear him on the phone and they ask him what

949
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: happened if he knows what happened to the woman, and

950
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: he says, she says, her boyfriend dropped her off, and

951
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: then you hear Sherry's screaming no. So it seems at

952
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: that moment there was some kind of slip where maybe

953
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: Sherry had said, inadvertently told the truth to this person

954
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: when she was on the side of the road that

955
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 2: her boyfriend led her out of the car. But immediately

956
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: she's sort of changing the story right there. And so

957
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 2: in hindsight, when you hear that, how would this person

958
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: know that her boyfriend had dropped her off? I don't

959
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: think the stranger would make that up. It seems like

960
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: he had Cherry had said that to him. Yeah, so

961
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: from the very beginning you're starting, you're starting to kind

962
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 2: of see that the see breadcrumb's sort of leading back

963
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: to James.

964
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: So wrap this up for me, you know, moving forward,

965
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: the DNA comes back the police and I'm assuming at

966
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: some point Keith confront her. Are their charges or what's

967
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: the what's the synopsis of the conclusion of this.

968
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's it becomes another moment of surrealness for

969
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: Keith because in twenty twenty, a few days after they

970
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: go and interview James, they bring Sherry and Keith into

971
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: the FBI office and they do this long interview, this

972
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: long video interview with Sherry, where they're basically show telling

973
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: her that they they're sort of laying out their case.

974
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: They've they've found the house, they found the closet that

975
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: had the all thread pipe that she said she had

976
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: been chained to. They talked to people there who had

977
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: seen Sherry there. Sherry is acting as if this is

978
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: all sort of exciting news to her, but she's saying,

979
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 2: the closet looks a little bit different. I don't know

980
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: if that's it. And then finally they tell her the

981
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: DNA belongs to James Rayes, and it's this huge moment.

982
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: You can see Keith in the interview room just sort

983
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 2: of start scooting his chair away from Cherry. Cherry continues

984
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 2: to deny it. She is acting in like she's in shock.

985
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: She's like, James loves me, he would never do this

986
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,479
Speaker 2: if he was there. I never saw him. She's still

987
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 2: maintaining that it's these two Hispanic women. She says she

988
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: doesn't want to get these women in trouble because one

989
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: of them let her go and that's the reason why

990
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: she gets to be with her kids. So at the

991
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: end of that meeting, Keith is assuming that they were

992
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 2: they will arrest Sherry. He kicks her out of the house.

993
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: She goes to Keith's Anne's house to stay the night,

994
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: and she just is just bombarding Keith with texting phone calls,

995
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: saying like, Babe, they're lying, they're lying, they're lying. This

996
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: is not what happened. This is not what happened. Meanwhile,

997
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: days go on, there's no arrest made, and Keith starts

998
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: to think that maybe law enforcement is a lying and

999
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 2: he talks to one of his really good friends, this

1000
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: mentor to him who basically tells him, you know, you're

1001
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: really only for another side of the story. You've now

1002
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: heard James Rayes's side of the story, but there's still

1003
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: no conclusive evidence to the fact that this is that

1004
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 2: that is exactly what happened. So Sherry is essentially able

1005
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: to get back into the house and essentially convinced Keith

1006
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: that law enforcement has nothing, otherwise they would have arrested her.

1007
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: And this goes on for two more years. So now

1008
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: Sharry and Keith are just living together. They found this DNA.

1009
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 2: Sherry is just able to tell Keith it's bullshit, this

1010
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: is not this is not what happened. Law enforcement is

1011
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: just not to get us, and Keith just decides to

1012
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 2: just believe his wife instead of believing this guy James Rays,

1013
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: who seemed like, according to Sherry, an abusive ex boyfriend.

1014
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: And then finally in twenty twenty two, Sherry ends up

1015
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 2: getting arrested by the FBI six years later, years years later,

1016
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: So this happened in twenty sixteen, Cherry's confronted with the

1017
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: DNA evidence twenty twenty. She's finally arrested in twenty twenty two,

1018
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: and it's only when Sherry tells Keith that she is

1019
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: going to take a plea deal and admit that she

1020
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: had lied about it that Keith is like, I'm done,

1021
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 2: I'm done. I can't and she's like, no, it's just

1022
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: I'll just be wearing an ankle monitor. I won't have

1023
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: to serve any jail time, like it's the only way,

1024
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: and he's like well, if you didn't do this, you

1025
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: can't admit to doing it, because then everyone, everyone in

1026
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: the community that looked for you, everyone that did so

1027
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 2: much to try to find you, that did so much

1028
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: to support you, that rallied around you, is going to

1029
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: hate you and demonize us as a family if you

1030
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: admit to doing this. If you didn't do it, so

1031
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: don't admit to it. But she does. She pleas out

1032
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 2: and Keith files for divorce at that point in time

1033
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: because he's just like, I can't, I can't do this.

1034
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: So she never serves any time at all.

1035
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: She does, so she ends up getting sentenced to eighteen months.

1036
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: There's some mail fraud charges as far as like the

1037
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: payment for the for the all the therapy that she

1038
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: had to do that was paid for by the California

1039
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 2: Victims Compensation Fund, so there's some there's some male fraud

1040
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: that she ends up getting charged with. So she admits

1041
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 2: in court that she lied about everything. This this whole

1042
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: thing was a hoax. She apologizes, and she ends up

1043
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,479
Speaker 2: serving a total ten months in prison. She gets out

1044
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and in that period of time

1045
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: that she's in prison, Keith has this disturbing revelation with

1046
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 2: his daughter where she tells him, you know, Keith had

1047
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 2: been working out, he was really sore. He was kind

1048
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 2: of like, oh, like I feel I feel I feel bad.

1049
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: And his daughter's like, oh, you should, you should do

1050
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 2: this trick that mommy does. And he's like what and

1051
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: she's like brings him into the bathroom. She gets some

1052
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: toilet paper. She knows where this there's alcohol in the closet.

1053
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: She pours like rubbing alcohol on the toilet paper and

1054
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: she says, here, just breathe this. And Keith is like,

1055
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? And his daughter's like eight

1056
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: years old at this time, and he's like when would

1057
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: how often would you do this? And she's like, well,

1058
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 2: when we would get sick. We would do it every

1059
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 2: time that we were sick. And so Keith is just

1060
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: like doesn't understand. He's like, okay, you know, let's let's

1061
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 2: go to bed. We'll talk about this in the morning.

1062
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 2: He ends up calling Sheila, Sherry's sister. He's like, have

1063
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 2: you ever heard about this as any kind of like

1064
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: sort of holistic kind of treatment And Sheila's like, that's insane.

1065
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: That no, that is not that is not heal someone

1066
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 2: to breathe and rubbing alcohol fumes. So then Keith goes

1067
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: to the doctor. They have sort of a forensic analysis,

1068
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 2: you know, interviews with the kids, and they sort of

1069
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: explained that Sherry would often soak you know, tissues and alcohol,

1070
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: put it in plastic bags and sort of have a little,

1071
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 2: you know, string around the kid's neck, so they would

1072
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: just be around the kid's neck all day. They could

1073
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 2: kind of breathe it in, and so you know, the

1074
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: theory is then that makes you feel more sick, and

1075
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: then you have to go to the doctor and it

1076
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 2: becomes this sort.

1077
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: Of Munchausen biproxy exactly exactly.

1078
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: And so once that happened, when Keith found out from

1079
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: his daughter that Cherry had been doing that when he

1080
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: was at work, it was kind of done for him emotionally.

1081
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 2: He was completely over Cherry. And this is when Cherry's

1082
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: in prisoned, so this he only found out about this

1083
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: when she was out of the house. And so for Keith,

1084
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 2: that was I think that's the moment where he truly

1085
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 2: realized that the danger of this woman on his family,

1086
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 2: and it's what prompted him to want to tell his

1087
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 2: story in a documentary series. Was because he was concerned

1088
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 2: that once she came out of prison, that she would

1089
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: have her own story, and knowing how convincing and perspasive

1090
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 2: a person she is, that people might believe her story

1091
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: and she would get access to the children again. And

1092
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 2: so for him this was a huge moment where he

1093
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: could really tell his truth and hopefully get ahead of

1094
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 2: Cherry's inevitable lives, which unfortunately we've seen in this new

1095
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: documentary series as Sherry just participated in, where she is

1096
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 2: completely rewriting history with this unbelievable story of what happened?

1097
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: And am I right? I'm looking at this now? Am

1098
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: I right? And seeing that she wrote a memoir also, yes,

1099
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: it's a new tell all book. Serry Peppini doesn't exist.

1100
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: Who gave her that platform? I mean, that's unreal to me.

1101
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: I think that might be a self published book. But

1102
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: what's really fascinating is she had been writing a book

1103
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 2: shortly after her disappearance, and a lot of that book

1104
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: we got access to and we got to read and

1105
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 2: we use excerpts from that book in the series, and

1106
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: our story in that version was these two Hispanic women

1107
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: had abducted her, and basically she went through everything that

1108
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: they had done to her. There was no mention of

1109
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: James Rayes. There's no mention of you know, Keith being abusive.

1110
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: The book was dedicated to Keith, and so it seems

1111
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: like she been writing one version of the book and

1112
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: then once she got out of prison, she started writing

1113
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: another version of the book and then it looks like

1114
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: she's self published it on the back of this Discovery

1115
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: I D series.

1116
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: Do you know what Keith's doing now and his two kids?

1117
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's really it's been really difficult for him,

1118
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: is this as this other Sherry's series came out? For him,

1119
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: It's been really hard just being quiet because just all

1120
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: of these things that she's saying about him are just

1121
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: completely untrue, and so for him to just hear her

1122
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: just you know, slander his name and and try to

1123
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: make him out like this abusive person is really hard

1124
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 2: for him. So because they're still in a custody battle,

1125
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: and I believe that they have I believe they have

1126
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: a court date in September or October that will basically

1127
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: see if Sheerry is able to get you know, fifty

1128
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: to fifty custody of the children with Keith. Up until then,

1129
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: she's been getting supervised visits. I think once a month

1130
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 2: or so. Her son doesn't want to see her, but

1131
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: the daughter we'll see her. So she's been seeing her daughter,

1132
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: but she hasn't really been seeing her son because I

1133
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 2: think her son is just very sad and sort of is,

1134
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: you know, older, and just can't understand why my mom left.

1135
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: Well, what I can't understand is why mom abused her

1136
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: kids and now anyone is even considering giving her anything

1137
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: but supervised custody, you know, once a month. I mean,

1138
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: I guess they weren't able to prove it at that

1139
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: point the abuse charges.

1140
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, You're exactly right, they weren't able to prove it.

1141
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: So it's just it's just his word and his children's

1142
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: word against against Sherry's.

1143
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, what a flipping story. It's just it's

1144
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: so upsetting, and especially you know when if you watch

1145
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: the Netflix series and you hear that woman's story in

1146
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: her boyfriend's story about not being believed at all and

1147
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: then having gone through all of this, and then you

1148
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: end up with Sherry Peppini, who you know is now

1149
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: discrediting so many people by doing what she did, and

1150
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, most importantly, even more importantly than in Keith,

1151
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: just traumatizing those kids. They're going to be living with

1152
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: this forever. How are you gonna know who to trust

1153
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: if your own mother isn't someone you can trust, you know.

1154
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it's so incredibly tragic. I mean, I

1155
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 2: feel so it's so tragic for women, Yeah, for victims,

1156
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: for you know, coming forward, you're already faced with people

1157
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: not believing you, intimidation, like all of these kind of things.

1158
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: And then Sherry is the sort of she she just

1159
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: takes us all so far back as far as just

1160
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: not being an incredible person, not being an a credible woman.

1161
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: So it's just, yeah, it's really really sad. And these yeah,

1162
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,479
Speaker 2: these four kids are going to be you know there

1163
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: the son, I think is in middle school at this point.

1164
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: So I mean, I think, you know, your kids in

1165
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 2: school are going to have seen, you know, these stories

1166
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: and just go online on the internet and you just

1167
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: look up a peenie and this and all you get

1168
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 2: all you get are these kind of results. So it's yeah,

1169
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: it's really it's really unfortunate for them. I feel really horrible.

1170
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean, one last thing, one sad part I think

1171
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: of the film is exactly what you're talking about. If

1172
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: I remember this right, He asked the kids, should we

1173
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: change our last name? And they said no, how horrific,

1174
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: feeling like you have to change as a kid, your

1175
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: whole identity because of what your mother did.

1176
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so when when they told us that, Yeah,

1177
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: it was really heartbreaking and really also really reassuring too

1178
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: that they wanted to keep the name, and they were

1179
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: sort of yeah, they were sort of able to like, no,

1180
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: we're going to shoulder this, We're going we're going to

1181
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: carry this. This is our name. Why should we have

1182
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 2: to change because of, you know, what what mommy did.

1183
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: Well, if you guys haven't seen this show, I mean,

1184
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: this interview doesn't do it justice. I think, you know,

1185
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful things is all the footage,

1186
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: home video, the interviews with you know, the police, with

1187
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: the family members, all the support that Keith seems to get.

1188
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if you want the real story,

1189
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: this is the series for you to watch. And I

1190
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: think you guys did a wonderful job. Michael, absolutely, well,

1191
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much.

1192
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: Now. That means so much. And it's always, you know,

1193
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: we always want to do right by anyone that participates,

1194
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: and we always want to tell the truth. And Keith

1195
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 2: is entirely credible person, and I completely believe him. All

1196
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: of us believe him. He's been through, he's been through

1197
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: the Ringer, and you know, we're just hoping for all

1198
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: the best for him and his family as they try

1199
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 2: to move on from this horrible event.

1200
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the

1201
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: audio versions of my books The Sinner's All About the

1202
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: Ghost Club, All That Is Wicked, and American Sherlock, and

1203
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: Don't forget There are twelve seasons of my historical true

1204
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 1: crime podcast, tenfold More Wicked right here in this podcast feed,

1205
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: scroll back and give them a listen if you haven't already.

1206
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer

1207
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: is Alexis Amerosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This

1208
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer,

1209
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen

1210
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and

1211
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: Facebook at tenfold More Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold

1212
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: More And if you know of a historical crime that

1213
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: could use some attention from the crew at tenfold more Wicked.

1214
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: Email us at info at tenfoldmorewicked dot com. We'll also

1215
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: take your suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words