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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Sunday, March twenty second.

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Speaker 2: We hope you had a fabulous weekend. Well, buckle up

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Speaker 2: because we have a stack knight of headlines. New fallout

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Speaker 2: over ABC's decision to cancel The Bachelorette. The fallout continues

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Speaker 2: and the lawsuits are about to hit. Also, will there

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Speaker 2: be a verdict finally in this case against Meta. It's

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Speaker 2: a big one. The jury is deliberating and we are

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Speaker 2: standing by. Plus, we are getting the information a new

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Speaker 2: grand jury testimony is suggesting that David the pop star,

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Speaker 2: that there might be some real movement in that investigation

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Speaker 2: and possibly and rest will that possibly happen this week?

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Speaker 2: And also this Dugger arrest. Not only was one of

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Speaker 2: the brother Duggers arrested, now his wife has also been

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Speaker 2: brought into custody and released.

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Speaker 3: We'll unpack that.

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Speaker 2: And also Prince Andrew, he was officially cited out in

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Speaker 2: the wild, so we will unpack that as well. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker and I head of KT Studios. We make

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Speaker 2: podcasts and documentaries and scripted projects all around true crime,

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Speaker 2: and I get to do that with Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: Body Moven every single night.

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Speaker 3: And listen.

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Speaker 2: By the way, if you are just joining us, welcome,

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Speaker 2: We're so happy that you're here. Shout out to KFI.

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Speaker 2: We're so glad that you're joining us this evening. But

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Speaker 2: we want to hear from you, so this really works.

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Speaker 2: If you call us live eight eight eight three one crime,

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Speaker 2: or you can just leave us a talkback. Just download

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Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app. You press this little button in the

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Speaker 2: top right hand corner. It's a little microphone icon. Press

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Speaker 2: that button and boom, we will play it on the show. So, ladies,

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Speaker 2: I hope you had a great weekend. I did. Did

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Speaker 2: you have a good weekend? We did?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I did.

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Speaker 2: I actually have a little like sun on my face.

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Speaker 2: The sun has been shining and I officially have spring fever.

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Speaker 5: Love.

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Speaker 6: Its it's hot here. It's like one hundred degrees.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Are you guys okay?

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Speaker 2: Bad?

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Speaker 7: No?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Not okay?

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Speaker 6: It's not so sweet as hot in March. You know

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Speaker 6: what I mean, This kind of weather normally doesn't happen

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Speaker 6: till like May, right, so this is very unusual. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I'm pretty we've.

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Speaker 2: Had two full days of sunshine, I'm happy to report,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure that will change by the time this

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Speaker 2: show is over. So who knows what happens from there?

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Speaker 2: And listen, our hearts are with everybody in Hawaii. Obviously

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Speaker 2: there's been excessive flooding there speaking of weather, and so

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Speaker 2: many people are displaced, and you know, really we are.

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Speaker 2: We are sending all of our prayers your way. Yes, definitely, yeahely.

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Speaker 3: So so much to get you. Let's just jump right

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Speaker 3: in to it.

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Speaker 2: Where should we begin, Courtney Armstrong tell us all things

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Speaker 2: ABC and The Bachelorette.

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Speaker 4: Well, legal questions are a bruin and this all has

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Speaker 4: to do with the canceled season of The Bachelorette. So

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Speaker 4: Taylor Frankie Paul, who some people may know from the

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Speaker 4: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and she really particularly hit

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Speaker 4: the spotlight with the Soft Swinging scandal, so she came in.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'll just say made for reality TV. But

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Speaker 4: now several contestants from the never aired season of The

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Speaker 4: Bachelorette are considering legal action against ABC and the show's

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Speaker 4: producers because listen, they pulled the entire series that had

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Speaker 4: all been filmed before the premiere. And that happened because

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Speaker 4: a video resurfaced showing Taylor Frankie Paul The Bachelorette, in

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Speaker 4: an incendiary twenty twenty three domestic incident that involved her

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Speaker 4: and her ex slash baby Daddy Dakota Mortensen. And in

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Speaker 4: this video, which has been circulating widely, you see her

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Speaker 4: throwing chairs at her partner all the while her six

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Speaker 4: year old is present. But listen, some of the men

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Speaker 4: who competed on the show, they're claiming they were put

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Speaker 4: in difficult, potentially unsafe situations. Boddy, you are flipping out.

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Speaker 6: I was slipping out. You know we had our call earlier.

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Speaker 6: And you guys have worked on reality shows, right, You

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Speaker 6: worked on talk shows, You worked on reality shows. I

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Speaker 6: was in a reality show, like you guys know that

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Speaker 6: when you're forming the cast, the cast gets investigated, right,

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Speaker 6: So why weren't they investigating her? Like I don't listen,

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Speaker 6: My heart is with these guys. I believe that they

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Speaker 6: put these people, these men in danger because she is unhinged.

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Speaker 6: That's just my opinion. But I just can't believe that

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Speaker 6: who's ever running this production just was like or maybe that's.

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Speaker 4: What they wanted. They wanted the chaos.

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Speaker 2: Well, I will say this having worked on The Bachelor

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Speaker 2: season two and The Bachelorette season one. So I did

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Speaker 2: the Andrew Firestone season, which was one hundred thousand years ago. Literally,

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Speaker 2: so did Taha, and also I did the Bachelorette with

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Speaker 2: Trista and Ryan. So take what I'm saying in context.

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Speaker 2: That was a long time ago, as many seasons ago. Obviously, However,

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Speaker 2: some of the underpinnings, of course, still exist creatively, and

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Speaker 2: I'm sure behind the scenes. I can't really under I

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Speaker 2: can't really explain to you how big of a deal

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Speaker 2: this is for ABC to cancel a show that they

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Speaker 2: have already shot. Just to give some contexts, casting goes

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Speaker 2: on for close to a year, probably six months easily.

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Speaker 3: Think about it. You have to get through all of

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Speaker 3: those submissions.

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Speaker 2: Now you get on the show, you have to leave

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Speaker 2: your job for thirty days minimum.

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Speaker 3: You're not getting paid. You know, this is a big commitment.

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Speaker 2: If you're one of the suitors or if you're the Bachelor,

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Speaker 2: or The Bachelorette. You're really playing all in. And by

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Speaker 2: the way that thirty Days is also with so much

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Speaker 2: more crew and lighting and camera guys. It is essentially

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours, not actually twenty four hours, pretty close,

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Speaker 2: you know, and people are working their tails off. It's

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Speaker 2: a huge operation.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 2: People sometimes say, ah, reality TV, and I'm like, sometimes

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Speaker 2: I get offended by that because I'm like, you don't

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Speaker 2: realize how much its efforts and thought goes into some

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Speaker 2: of those shows. Now, again, I haven't worked there in

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Speaker 2: a really long time, but I will say this, I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine that those episodes. Just to give some context,

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Speaker 2: this has been reported in the press. I'm not entirely

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Speaker 2: sure this is exactly accurate, but every episode is roughly

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Speaker 2: two million dollars. So think about the just general cash

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Speaker 2: that is out the window. Now, think about all the

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Speaker 2: editors and the people. They haven't even started editing episode

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Speaker 2: two yet, they had just completed one episode. So here

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Speaker 2: you are, You're on the show, You've left your job,

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Speaker 2: you're on social media.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's excited the show is about to premiere.

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Speaker 2: In boom, you find out that the person that you

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Speaker 2: were going to eventually maybe get engaged to maybe Mary,

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Speaker 2: isn't that the whole spirit of it actually has a

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Speaker 2: criminal background that is one that suggests domestic violence and

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Speaker 2: is quite upsetting. I just don't know how they wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have known that, because a basic background check would have

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Speaker 2: probably shown this, or even if it didn't, if you

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Speaker 2: watched the real you know, house the Mormon Housewives, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's underpinnings of this the entire time.

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Speaker 3: So I think they're in for some trouble.

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Speaker 2: And it kind of breaks my heart because I know

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Speaker 2: how hard people work on that show, and the people

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Speaker 2: that are going to be affected are the lowest on

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Speaker 2: the totem pole, the ones that had, you know, work

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Speaker 2: for the next production, you know, half a year editing things.

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Speaker 2: Now they are out of a job. And all of

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Speaker 2: the guys that spent thirty days away from their jobs,

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Speaker 2: that's a loss of income, and they were potentially put

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Speaker 2: into a scenario that was it would certainly be unhealthy.

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Speaker 6: That's for unhealthy as an understatement. If you're just joining us,

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Speaker 6: it's a true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all

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Speaker 6: the time. We're right in the middle of talking about

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Speaker 6: this bachelorette scandal and Taylor Frankie Paul and ABC pulling

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Speaker 6: the show for the season. If you want to wig

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Speaker 6: and give us a call eight and eight thirty one

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Speaker 6: Crime and I understand we got a couple of talk backs.

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Speaker 4: Is that right?

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Speaker 6: Taha, let's join one right now.

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Speaker 7: Hey, just to add to Bachelorette stuff. I've been watching

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Speaker 7: some of the older shows, so I'm not current on

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Speaker 7: the new stuff.

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Speaker 9: This scal sounds gray great.

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Speaker 7: I almost feel like they knew what they were getting

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Speaker 7: into just a little bit, but they thought it would

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Speaker 7: be in their favor and it's turned out to be

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Speaker 7: a big mess. I mean to cancel the show. Bet

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Speaker 7: Bachelor and Bachelorette Nation are met anyhow. I love the

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Speaker 7: love stories that go with them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's theme everybody loves to right now and then

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Speaker 4: no people, I mean the Bachelor and Bachelorette garner millions

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Speaker 4: of viewers, but now that may be translating into millions

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Speaker 4: of dollars of lawsuits because the contestants who Stephanie to

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Speaker 4: your point, took off work. They turned down other opportunities

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Speaker 4: that could.

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Speaker 2: Have been You don't get money, ourners, like you know,

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Speaker 2: this is like you're really jumping in. Look, you might

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Speaker 2: get some deals or some shigs to show up at

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Speaker 2: a nightclub because now that you're sort of a celebrity

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Speaker 2: because you've been on these shows, listen, they're hyper popular.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's been around for a really long time, right,

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Speaker 2: So what I guess it is slightly surprising is that

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Speaker 2: it's a pretty well oiled machine. I would have to assume.

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Speaker 2: And you know, they take it very seriously. At least

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Speaker 2: in my day they did, and I can't imagine that

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Speaker 2: that has changed so much. And if if the goal

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Speaker 2: was to kind of put a really difficult person in

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Speaker 2: a scenario because that's good TV, or somebody that's potentially

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Speaker 2: violent because that's good TV, that smells real bad.

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Speaker 4: Although, by the way, I've gotten.

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Speaker 2: So many messages from people who really said, hey, I

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Speaker 2: know that what she did was very very bad, meaning

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Speaker 2: Taylor in that video was three and a half minutes.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult, it's very triggering. But what was happening before.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes there is something about, you know, videotaping somebody in

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Speaker 2: their very worst, worst worst moment. Was there an incident

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Speaker 2: prior to this? Is there narcissistic behavior on any level

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Speaker 2: on either side? I've gotten more questioned about narcissistic abuse

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Speaker 2: in gaslighting, than I can even tell you that's number one.

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Speaker 3: And then one step further is it is a little.

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Speaker 2: Dirty that suddenly on her child's birthday, on what would

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Speaker 2: have been maybe her best day, this tape suddenly appears

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Speaker 2: out of no place land when it's been around since

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. So that seems a little bit fishy

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Speaker 2: to me too, in terms of the X who's also

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Speaker 2: you know, somehow in the mix of this talk about toxic.

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Speaker 6: Okay, but can we go back to those people that

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Speaker 6: were messaging you about, like, you know, what was happening

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Speaker 6: right prior to this? I have to say, I don't

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Speaker 6: know that we would be asking that if it was

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Speaker 6: a man.

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Speaker 3: No fair, That's totally fair.

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Speaker 6: And I think if somebody said, what was happening right before?

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Speaker 6: What was she doing to him? Why did he slap her?

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Speaker 6: We would have a conniption fit. Right, That's fair?

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Speaker 2: So it's fair.

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Speaker 6: You know, I have to say, I don't really care

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Speaker 6: what was happening before her child was in the room

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Speaker 6: and she was being so violent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I see interviews with her and you know, listen,

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Speaker 2: this is a person who's not having their best moment, right,

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Speaker 2: So she's losing custody or her children. You know, there

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Speaker 2: may be some legal repercussions because of this. Remember the

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Speaker 2: show that she was going to be a big star

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Speaker 2: on is now gone and the Mormon.

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Speaker 3: Housewives show whatever.

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Speaker 2: That show it's called The Secret Lives of Mormon And

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Speaker 2: she could watch what on Hulu that has also halted production.

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Speaker 2: I got to tell you, it's going to be pretty

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Speaker 2: serious for that much production to be shutting down at

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Speaker 2: all times. So, yeah, it's funny this particular story I've

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Speaker 2: gotten more feedback on then.

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Speaker 4: Have you really, because you're both in reality and I.

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Speaker 2: Don't think even because of the Bachelor stuff, I just

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Speaker 2: I seem to be getting a lot of chatter about

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Speaker 2: this particular story.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of missing person's cases.

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Speaker 2: So but interestingly enough, it seems kind of divided where

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Speaker 2: you know, toxic people in the same scenario on again,

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Speaker 2: off again, Neither of them seem like perfect scenarios here,

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Speaker 2: and I hope they really get the help. And in

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Speaker 2: a way, because this video came out, it has caused

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Speaker 2: a lot of conversations to happen about domestic abuse and

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Speaker 2: what that really looks like. And I know that can

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Speaker 2: be triggering from many many people, but sometimes you have

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Speaker 2: to see it to be.

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Speaker 3: Able to name it.

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Speaker 2: And although this is again on the back of a

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Speaker 2: young woman's worst time, there is something very real about it.

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Speaker 10: I still have a theory that they knew, Like I mean,

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Speaker 10: I feel like, as someone who was on the casting

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Speaker 10: side of things, I think, you know, I think that

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Speaker 10: they knew about the domestic They knew about the domestic violence.

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Speaker 10: That was going to be a gentle part of the storyline.

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Speaker 10: I think that was going to be woven in. But

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Speaker 10: I feel like once that video dropped and you saw

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Speaker 10: how graphic and strong it looked, then everything changed, Like

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Speaker 10: I think they had to. There's no way to back

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Speaker 10: out of that.

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Speaker 6: Right, And when you're on these shows, and it's probably hard,

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Speaker 6: I mean hard to tell as a watcher, but when

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Speaker 6: you're on these shows, you're under immense pressure, the pressure,

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Speaker 6: and I mean mine's a completely different kind of show

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Speaker 6: and I was like a competition reality, but I mean,

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Speaker 6: this is like really emotional on the Bachelorette, right, and

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Speaker 6: this the pressure could make anyone snap, Like if they knew,

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Speaker 6: if they knew, and I don't know that they did,

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Speaker 6: but if they did. I think these guys have a

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Speaker 6: really good chance at a lawsuit.

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Speaker 4: I really knew.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, just to kind of add to that,

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Speaker 2: that's a really good point because what people might not

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Speaker 2: know is for thirty days, if you're on a show

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Speaker 2: like that, you are sequestered, you don't have your question,

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Speaker 2: you don't have any contact with the outside world. You

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Speaker 2: are in this bubble, which is you know, on purpose, right,

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Speaker 2: So everyone's really feeling it.

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Speaker 3: So again, that can be triggering.

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Speaker 2: If somebody has any mental illness or things that they're

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Speaker 2: suffering with, it could get exacerbated in those environments, which

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Speaker 2: is why there's so much psych evaluating. So I can't

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Speaker 2: tell you how hard it is to become any cast member.

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Speaker 4: Contestant on any show.

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Speaker 6: I mean I went through months, I'm not even kidding

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Speaker 6: you guys, months of interviews, sound out it. And then

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Speaker 6: when I made like the final selection, I had to

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Speaker 6: talk to a psychologist like four times.

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Speaker 4: I had to take this big test like yeah, I.

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Speaker 6: Mean, they tore my life apart, and and this was

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Speaker 6: just a competition show wasn't even as emotional as like

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Speaker 6: you know, The Bachelor.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention you're actually setting somebody up with a

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Speaker 2: life partner. Potentially he's the spirit of this. It's not

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Speaker 2: somebody to like spend your life fighting with. That is

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Speaker 2: very opposite Land.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know why. We also keep saying if

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Speaker 4: they knew. I mean episode one of Secret Lives of

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Speaker 4: Mormon Wives. You see her arrested period the end. You

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Speaker 4: don't need to do due diligence of researching. You need

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Speaker 4: to turn the TV show on that she was starring in,

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Speaker 4: just saying.

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Speaker 6: Oh, somebody's going to be in deep water. Somebody's going

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Speaker 6: to be in deep water. A major development in the

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Speaker 6: David case, a close associate breaks the silence in front

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Speaker 6: of a grand jury. Plus meta in YouTube are in court.

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Speaker 6: Could they be held a responsible for addiction? Keep it here,

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Speaker 6: True Grand Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of

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Speaker 2: course with Courtney Armstrong and body move in giving us

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Speaker 2: a little dance break.

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Speaker 3: During the break. We're so glad that you're with us.

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Speaker 2: Listen, There's been a lot of cases that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be tracking throughout the week, and as a reminder,

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Speaker 2: we're not just here tonight. We are live Sunday through Thursday,

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Speaker 2: and you can always catch us nightly as a podcast

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Speaker 2: right after the show. So two big cases that we

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Speaker 2: have to dip into, David the pop star and the

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Speaker 2: investigation into the death of Celeste Revs Hernandez. And then

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Speaker 2: later this meta case, the case against you know, Zuckerberg

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Speaker 2: himself and all things algorithms. So so much to unpack there, buddy,

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Speaker 2: Let's start with you, David, David Pops.

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Speaker 6: I mean, the next time I talk about David, I

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Speaker 6: want it to be, oh, he's been arrested, but no,

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Speaker 6: here we are. You know, it's been almost seven months,

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Speaker 6: seven months now, right, so there are some new developments, nothing,

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Speaker 6: nothing big, but there are some things I want to

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Speaker 6: talk about, okay, and I think they're kind of juicy,

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Speaker 6: all right. So these developments that have come out into

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Speaker 6: the death of Celeste Revas Hernandez, right, close associate and

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Speaker 6: friend of David. His name is Neo. We've talked about

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Speaker 6: Neo before, Neo Langston. While he's now testified before a

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Speaker 6: grand jury and notably did not invoke the his Fifth

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Speaker 6: Amendment rights. Now, this is an assumption I believe due

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Speaker 6: to how long he was in there, because if you

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Speaker 6: take the fifth, you're in and out of there, right,

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Speaker 6: You're not. He was in there for he was in

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Speaker 6: there for about forty minutes. And again, this all stems

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Speaker 6: from the September ninth, twenty twenty five, discovery of Celeste's

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Speaker 6: body in you know, she was only fourteen years old

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Speaker 6: and it was found dismembered in the trunk of a

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Speaker 6: tesla that was owned by David, and it's launched this

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Speaker 6: really high profile investigation. Right, So according to TMZ, you know,

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Speaker 6: they they're saying, you know, David, they know that this

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Speaker 6: grand jury testimony lasted about forty minutes, and from that

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Speaker 6: you can kind of surmise that Neo did not, you know,

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Speaker 6: take the fifth to avoid self incrimination. So choosing that,

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Speaker 6: you know, can indicate some kind of level of cooperation

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Speaker 6: or some willingness to provide details. Right. Well, also spoke

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Speaker 6: with TMZ again, they also spoke with attorney Mark Geragos. Right,

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Speaker 6: we talked about Mark Erragos many times. He's involved in

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Speaker 6: a lot of different cases. Well, he says that testimony

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Speaker 6: could create serious legal exposure for David, especially if Neo's

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Speaker 6: statements contradict earlier accounts or place him closer to, you know,

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Speaker 6: key events in the timeline. Garre Goos also pointed out

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Speaker 6: that cooperating witnesses are often used to help prosecutors build

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Speaker 6: the case step by step. So basically, Nea would be

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Speaker 6: another brick in the wall right of con of some

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Speaker 6: kind of indictment against David. Neo had previously been arrested

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Speaker 6: on a material witness warrant because he didn't show up

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Speaker 6: to grand jury testimony and he fled to Montana. So

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Speaker 6: they went and got him, transported him to LA and that,

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Speaker 6: you know, really signaled early on then investigators believe he

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Speaker 6: had critical information. They were willing to go get him

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Speaker 6: from Montana, right and bring him back to California.

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Speaker 2: And this is different from the person that was heard

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Speaker 2: talking outside of the grand jury.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was in the.

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Speaker 2: Hallways, right, So that was his first David the pop

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Speaker 2: Stars manager, this is just his buddy.

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Speaker 6: Right, This is just his friend. But you know, there

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Speaker 6: there's a couple of things that are interesting. Harvey from

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Speaker 6: TMV had said, and I kind of took a little

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Speaker 6: issue with this. I know you love Harvey very much,

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Speaker 6: but Stephanie, I took a little issue with something he said.

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Speaker 6: He said something along the lines that, oh, well, now

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Speaker 6: you know we know that neo called Celesta victim and

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Speaker 6: that has to be something. And I'm like, no, we've

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Speaker 6: known Celestia was a victim because the you know, when

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Speaker 6: we the grand jury documents came out from Texas. You know,

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Speaker 6: his parents are fighting the summons to testify, you know,

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Speaker 6: at the grand jury. Uh, Dave, it says David is

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Speaker 6: being investigated for murder, but not an acridal overdose. Now,

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Speaker 6: if they're investigating somebody for murder, the medical examiner very

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Speaker 6: likely has the manner and cause of death. We don't

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Speaker 6: know what it is because it's been sealed, right, but

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Speaker 6: an accidental overdose or something like that wouldn't be called

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Speaker 6: a murder, right, Yeah, Yeah, anyway, I just thought that

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Speaker 6: was interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did say something, Court, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just you know you mentioned that it is these

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Speaker 4: corroborating witnesses who help build a case brick by big right.

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Speaker 4: And I think the sixth month, this huge lag has

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Speaker 4: been because everyone surrounding David the pop spot pop star

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Speaker 4: is being as hands off, and honestly, it seems difficult,

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Speaker 4: including his parents in dealing with officers and law enforcement

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Speaker 4: in general, and that they don't. Everyone is doing every

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Speaker 4: single thing they can to not show up, and so

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Speaker 4: fighting is not being built.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they're either fighting it or they're fleeing.

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Speaker 2: It's possible that we have yet to see a photograph

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Speaker 2: of David de pop Star anywhere, whether it's in Texas

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Speaker 2: or in Los Angeles. So obviously he was renting that

404
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: place in Los Angeles where the incinerator was identified. I

405
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Speaker 2: think some of the farming equipment was identified. That location

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Speaker 2: if your La centric is you know, literally on Dowheeny,

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Speaker 2: kind of up in the hills above Sunset. So again,

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Speaker 2: this was a fancy place. He was renting it for

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Speaker 2: about twenty thousand dollars a month. Obviously he's not really

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Speaker 2: renting it anymore. But the you know, remember the owner

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Speaker 2: of that said place, the house that David was renting.

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Speaker 2: At some point that guy was like, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to rent this place. How am I ever going to

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Speaker 2: get some rent now that there's all this suspicion and

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Speaker 2: this home could be potentially a crime scene. So he

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Speaker 2: went ahead and hired a private investigator so that the

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Speaker 2: private investigator could at least maybe get some information, and

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Speaker 2: frankly that person who body I know you've worked with that.

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Speaker 2: PI has been very actionable. Great thinks that there's information

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Speaker 2: coming around the bend.

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Speaker 6: Well he's on. He's onto something here too, and you

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Speaker 6: bring him up. Stephen Fisher, he's the private investigator that

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Speaker 6: we were talking about, and he he's you know, he's

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Speaker 6: basically saying prosecutors don't have enough to maybe bring homicide charges,

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Speaker 6: but they, dang well, sure enough have to you know,

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Speaker 6: some to bring you know, pursue lesser charges, you know,

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00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 6: harboring a minor or a runaway. He could face child

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Speaker 6: abduction related charges in California because David or I'm sorry,

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Speaker 6: Steve Fisher, he did some requests like a foya to

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Speaker 6: the Dohaney address.

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Speaker 4: Right, there's a timeline.

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Speaker 6: So at the end, at the end of January, David

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Speaker 6: did a stream, a live stream, and Celeus was on

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Speaker 6: this live stream, and at the end of the live stream,

435
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 6: David says, delete everything, you know, he because there's a

436
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 6: there's a minor runaway on his live stream.

437
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so we way fourteen years old at the time,

438
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: so fourteenth years substantial age difference. David the pop star

439
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,239
Speaker 2: is an adult and this young Celeste revas. Hernandez had

440
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: been running away and going back and forth. She's a

441
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: minor and that would be illegal if there was anything

442
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: the Faarius happening.

443
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 6: Right, and she this was right before she first ran away. Okay,

444
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 6: So she was reported missing the first time because she

445
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 6: she was reported missing and then she would come home

446
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 6: and then she was reported missing again. She was reported

447
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 6: missing the first time in February of twenty twenty four

448
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 6: and last scene on February fourteenth. And remember her teacher

449
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 6: told the class that law enforcement had found her at

450
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 6: home in the Hollywood Hills. Right, she doesn't live in Hollywood,

451
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 6: but David does.

452
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 11: Right.

453
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 6: People knew who Celeste was hanging out with. Back in

454
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 6: October of twenty twenty five, Stephen Fisher requested the investigative

455
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 6: file from the Los Angela Sheriff's Department and the West

456
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 6: Hollywood Sheriff Station regarding any witnesses and suspect interviews related

457
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 6: to Celeste daying with David in the house in Doheiny,

458
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 6: right on the block O'dahiny. In November, they sent him

459
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 6: a letter confirming those files did exist and referred him

460
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 6: to Riverside, which is where cele the Riverside County Sheriff's apartment.

461
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 6: So that means, right me, I'm going to walk you

462
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 6: guys through this, okay, and tell me if you That

463
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 6: means they that David knew that he was with a

464
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 6: runaway because they questioned or had some kind of investigation

465
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 6: or some kind of query into Celeste whereabouts before she

466
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 6: was murdered.

467
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: Oh, we also heard reports that Celeste Revis Hernandez's brother

468
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 2: also summoned her and went and actually retrieved her from

469
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 2: David the popstar's home at some other said incident. And

470
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: remember there was also some kind of a altercation or

471
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: a disagreement that escalated a little bit enough so that

472
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 2: you know, neighbors called, you know, the cops. And that

473
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: was between Celeste Reevus Hernandez age fourteen at the time,

474
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: and her mother and her brother whomever like her family. Again,

475
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: we're not putting anything onto her family. They're going through

476
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: so much, but this was a troubled home situation to

477
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 2: have best right.

478
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 6: So without a doubt they informed him that Celeste was

479
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 6: fourteen years or you know, fourteen years old at the time.

480
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 6: He knew, and yet she went back to his house

481
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 6: after that, and of course you know now we're here.

482
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 6: We're here, So they have to be able to get

483
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 6: him on harboring a minor, a runaway, you know, child

484
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 6: abduction charges, and why aren't they because if they do that,

485
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 6: that puts a lot of pressure on him. When he's

486
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 6: in a jail cell, they have twenty four to seven

487
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 6: unfettered access to him obviously, Like it's just jailhouse confessions exist,

488
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. Like it's just wild to

489
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 6: me that they haven't, And there's got to be something

490
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 6: else brewing.

491
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I feel like it just begs

492
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 4: there's some dearth of information we are not aware of.

493
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 4: I feel strongly about that because because otherwise I feel

494
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: like these charges would have been filed for sure.

495
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't think he is, you know, maybe frankly similar

496
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: to the last story with the Bachelorette when it comes

497
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: to David the pop star who was also doing a

498
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: world tour, I don't think they would have bailed on

499
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: his world tour entirely if there was not something substantial. Now,

500
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: is it possible that because Celes Revus Hernandez was underage

501
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: age fourteen? Is it possible that she was in a

502
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: troubled home scenario? And David the pop star felt as though,

503
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: or maybe this is his opinion, that he was almost

504
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: rescuing her or allowing her to have a safe haven

505
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: because she was forever.

506
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 3: Running from home.

507
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: Mom knew where she was even though they were kind

508
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: of looking for her. There were missing posters everywhere. So

509
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: that's where gets a little muddy for me.

510
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I love Stephanie that you know, want

511
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 6: to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's one

512
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 6: of the things I really truly love about you.

513
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 2: But I don't think so.

514
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 6: And the reason I don't think though, is that this

515
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 6: private investigator, Stephen Fisher, also has proof proof putting that

516
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 6: he that David had an ongoing illegal relationship with another

517
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 6: miner at the exact same time all this was going

518
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 6: on was the last okay, And that proof this is big,

519
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 6: you guys. That proof includes a statement from the minor

520
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 6: and dozens of photographs that include the minor with David,

521
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 6: and law enforcement is aware of this relationship. And again,

522
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 6: guess what, there's a third miner. So it's a pattern

523
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 6: at this point, right, this is a.

524
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: Pattern of abuse. If that is accurate, that is horrendous And.

525
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 3: I take everything back.

526
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 6: I just said that, well and well, and that's why

527
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 6: I mean I love that you you know what, maybe

528
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 6: because it's true. I mean, there is you know, the

529
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 6: possibility that he was just like this really like nice

530
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 6: guy who maybe didn't have the best life himself possibly

531
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 6: and was wanting, you know, now that he's got this

532
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 6: big come up, you know, he wants to help you know,

533
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 6: other people that are struggling. But no, I don't think

534
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 6: that's it at all.

535
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: It's so terrible because you know, now that I'm saying this,

536
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: I'm remembering that, you know, he was kind of a

537
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: seventh grader ish when COVID happened and then went into lockdown,

538
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: And during lockdown I had read an article that his

539
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: mom really encouraged his music and that's kind of when

540
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: he found his voice and started creating music for the

541
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: first time. And then after COVID and you know, kids

542
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: went back to school, David didn't.

543
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: He continued to be a homeschooled and.

544
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: Then became the pop artist that he now is, you know,

545
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: graduating to a world tour. Nothing to shake a stick

546
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: at that is so much money on the line that said,

547
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: is it possible that he had some sort of arrested development,

548
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: like you're dealing with like a person who maybe didn't yeah,

549
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: you know, fully sunted grow and somehow sees these young

550
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: girls as ass and it's so mind boggling.

551
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, be that as it may, like, let's make believe

552
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: that's true, and it doesn't sound beyond the pale to me.

553
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 4: It still makes it test It still makes it absolutely terrible.

554
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 4: And also how good of a human of you know,

555
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 4: would you be having one, if not three miners under

556
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: your control and celestiy of a Sernandez we know was

557
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: not attending school even exactly also is illegal.

558
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: And all of David the pop Star's friends, you'll remember,

559
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: they all thought that she was going to USC, right

560
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong's I'm a materer, I might add, and that

561
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 2: she was nineteen years old, you know, so that he

562
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: there was a there was this level of deception there, right,

563
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: So if you're lying about your age, and if David

564
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: the Popstar was in fact, allegedly allegedly allegedly also perpetuating

565
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: this narrative that she's over age, well then you know

566
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: full well that she is not.

567
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: And that's abuse and that is criminal.

568
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 6: The fact that these files exist, there was some kind

569
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 6: of query or report done. They visited the Dohiny home,

570
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 6: likely questioned David, maybe even Celeste herself, right, and obviously

571
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 6: they're going to be like, uh, yeah, she's fourteen and

572
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: needs to go home or something along those lines, I

573
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 6: would imagine. So he knows that she's fourteen, and he

574
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 6: still continues. Listen, he needs that.

575
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 4: Level of control.

576
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: That means that this person is grandiose and thinks they

577
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: can control their environments. And if he was in fact

578
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: having a relationship with that many undera women lock them up.

579
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 6: Three and Dan listen. I've known Steve Fisher a long

580
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 6: time and he's not one to exaggerate things. I believe

581
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 6: him one hundred percent. I believe him.

582
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: Well, we'll keep you up date on all new developments.

583
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: Of course, listen, if you're just joining us, we are

584
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: unpacking all the true crime cases of the day, and

585
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from you eight eight three one

586
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: crime or of course leave us a talk pack. You

587
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: guys know the drill. You've been doing it very very well,

588
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: and thank you for the dms about the swag and

589
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: the pictures. We're putting them up on our website so

590
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: we get such a kick out of it. I personally

591
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: eat it up. So thank you, thank you, keep them coming. So, Courtney,

592
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: this metacase against not only Mark Zuckerberg, it's really against

593
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: Amazon Apple. It's like it could be very very big

594
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: if in fact they get a guilty verdict this week.

595
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 4: So fill us in. Yeah, absolutely. The jury deliberations continued

596
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: past Friday. This is all happening in Los Angeles, and listen,

597
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 4: you don't overstate. This civil trial is a ten T

598
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: landmark case against Meta and YouTube, and the jurors seem

599
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: to be taking really seriously their duty because they had

600
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 4: day six of deliberations thus far, but it appears they

601
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: might be moving closer to a decision. This is based

602
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 4: upon questions that they have asked the judge, which is

603
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 4: something that can happen during jury deliberations. So the case itself,

604
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: if you're unfamiliar, its centers around claims that these platforms

605
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: are designed with addictive features, and specifically the sort of

606
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 4: face of this case. It's a pym of a twenty

607
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: year old going by KELSEYGM and she's testified that she

608
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: became addicted to Instagram to YouTube as early as age

609
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 4: nine and that it led to depression. And suicidal thoughts.

610
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: This trial began back in the end of February, and

611
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: now I'll give you a couple of updates on the

612
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: questions that they're asking, including the jurors asked about damages.

613
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: So you know how I guess how they figure out

614
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 4: what the damages should be and I thought it, yeah,

615
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 4: it is.

616
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 6: So that's that indicates that they're possibly leaning toward awarding

617
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 6: this this suit to the plaintiffs.

618
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: Right, by the way, if that happens, just to interject,

619
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: if in fact this is a guilty verdict, keep in

620
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: mind there's about two hundred and fifty plus lawsuits or

621
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: right behind it, so Google, Apple, Amazon, it is an

622
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: umbrella kicking the teeth.

623
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 6: And section two thirty it's under it underfire.

624
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 4: Yes, right. And section two thirty, which body just mentioned,

625
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 4: is at this point a very deeply antiquated law, I

626
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 4: would say, and it is what the defense is arguing

627
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: that they're protected under this section two thirty of the

628
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 4: Communications Decency Act. And what this does is it shields

629
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 4: any platform from any liability for user generated content.

630
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 6: Really quick, before you tell us the next question. Basically,

631
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 6: my understanding is is the argument for two thirty is

632
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 6: that if two thirty doesn't exist and it's not long

633
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 6: no longer part of the Communications Decency Act, then now

634
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 6: the owners of the companies that we post things on

635
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 6: have to basically approve everything that we're doing, right, Like, oh,

636
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 6: you can't post that picture of you at the grocery

637
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 6: store because we don't want to be held liable if

638
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 6: somebody buys that in chokes. I don't know, I'm just

639
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 6: making that.

640
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 3: Out right, but totally fair.

641
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's my understand Listen, that's my very limited understanding

642
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 6: of it.

643
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 2: But to that point, that's a very real thing. Remember

644
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: when we all signed up for all of these different things, right,

645
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: there was no real algorithm, right, So so their algorithm

646
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: and self is the most expensive thing you could possibly

647
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: buy at this point because it's all of us in

648
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: our group thought quite frankly, and the government is arguing

649
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: that basically these people, or specifically even Mark Zuckerberg, they

650
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: would buy up the competition before the competition could even grow.

651
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: So not that it's an air Quotes monopoly, because that

652
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 2: would not be the word. But imagine if there is

653
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: no competition, and if young people's families and parents are saying, oh,

654
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,479
Speaker 2: this is bringing harm to my kids. They're like, okay, great,

655
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: we'll add some safety guards, we'll add some protections against kids.

656
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: Yet at the exact same time, they're also adding addictive

657
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: qualities to the same exact scenario. So while you're answering

658
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: one problem, you're almost creating another. And they sort of

659
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: cancel each other out. And by the way, calm a crazy,

660
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: I'm for sure addicted. We all have been down this

661
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: rabbit hole. Oh yeah, we all need an off ramp,

662
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 2: and certainly the young generation needs an off ramp.

663
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 3: We signed up it was COVID.

664
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: Things got out of hand, and now I think the

665
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 2: genie does in fact need to get back in the bottle.

666
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: What do you guys think?

667
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 6: You know, I mean, I kind of feel differently about

668
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 6: it a little bit. It's okay, I kind of, I

669
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 6: mean it's I mean, I really don't know how I feel.

670
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: I don't feel strongly one way or the other. I

671
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 6: do know that obviously there's something here because the other

672
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 6: social media platform that we're getting settled with her, right, like,

673
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 6: I think Snapchat and TikTok TikTok. Correct, yeah, and so

674
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 6: maybe there is something there. And I bet you they're

675
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 6: kind of like wondering what Google, who owns YouTube, and Meta,

676
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 6: who owns Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp are thinking right now, Like,

677
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 6: you guys are putting us under the microscope. Why didn't

678
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 6: you just settle what's going you know what I mean?

679
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 6: There's got to be some kind of like what's happening

680
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 6: and listen if two thirty, if this changes section two thirty,

681
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 6: then we have a whole other problem on our hands.

682
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 6: And at nine years old, there was no algorithm. So

683
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 6: but I can see though, as it gets developed, how

684
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 6: it could hook you in, right, like, of course, and

685
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 6: your brain is forming and this algorithm is it penetrating

686
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 6: you know, your brain?

687
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 4: And yeah, forget it, But she.

688
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 6: Says you, I'd like to know we've evolved.

689
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: We are as users of social media. Course we've evolved, right,

690
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: And obviously social media has evolved in a very meaningful way.

691
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: The algorithm included.

692
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: There's no shame in that, No, I just think we

693
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 2: need to evolve as well, given where we are today.

694
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: And I thought the government argued something very interesting about

695
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: the competition factor and the control of user data, the

696
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: control of advertisers, and also the control of frankly, what

697
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: billions of people are being exposed to and influenced by.

698
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: That's a lot of control if in fact everyone's buying

699
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: it up. And the government really did ask quote, did

700
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 2: meta grow the pie or did the meta actually control

701
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: the whole kitchen? And that's kind of the larger underpinning here, right,

702
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: So I don't know the answer, but I do think

703
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: something's got to give.

704
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 4: It absolutely does. There was one person who testified it

705
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 4: was a former meta engineering director, Arturo Bahar, and they

706
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 4: testified the recommendation system was really good at connecting predators

707
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 4: with minors, and leadership knew about the harm and chose

708
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 4: not to act, so just putting it out there as testimonies,

709
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 4: sworn testimony. And also, yes, Boddy, you mentioned that the plaintiff,

710
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 4: kayleie gm you know, back eleven years ago, that things

711
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 4: were not that the algorithm was eleven years ago infancy.

712
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: Maybe it was in its infancy, yeah, yeah, yeah. However

713
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 4: it was also sustained and that was the very beginning

714
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 4: of what she got. So it was over the course

715
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 4: of time. And one more thing that the jurors asked

716
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: was if social media had to be the primary pause

717
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 4: of of the feelings that the plaintiff was having or

718
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 4: if it only needed to be a substantial factor, and

719
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 4: the judge indeed said that it needs to be only

720
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: quote a substantial factor, so that you know that Meta

721
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 4: et cetera could be held liable as a contributating factor

722
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: and didn't need to be the only one, which I

723
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 4: think didn't need to be the only one, right, because

724
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 4: I think that's interesting, it's an interesting question. It's a

725
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: very good question. It's a clarifying answer.

726
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 6: And listen, don't you think from those two questions that

727
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 6: I mean, they are taking the jurors, they're taking their

728
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 6: civic duty very seriously, and they're they're asking like really

729
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 6: intelligent questions, like I mean, they know the consequence of

730
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 6: this maybe possible verdict, right that might place blame on

731
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 6: Meta in Google, these massive, massive companies that I don't

732
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 6: even know what I would do. You know how if

733
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 6: we didn't have them, people.

734
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: Have gotten off of the backs of so many and

735
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: on so many miners and adults who have Like, by

736
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: the way, if I was at that age, if I

737
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: was twelve years old, it was hard enough to know

738
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: that there was a party or something happening that you

739
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: were not invited to.

740
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 3: Well, not that being in your face all the time,

741
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 3: all the time, all the time.

742
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: By the way, you know what I'm hoping for these jurors,

743
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: they are not They're not sequestered. They're real humans. They

744
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: live in the real world. Unless they've never been on

745
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: social media. It's pretty impossible to imagine a world that

746
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: as a person that has no real understanding of where

747
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: social media is and its potential impacts.

748
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 3: So even if it is.

749
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: The perfect jures that have no idea or opinions about

750
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg specifically or Meta on its nose.

751
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: They know the impage right.

752
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: And this is one of those cases that I think

753
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: is going to be like cigarettes. We said this last time.

754
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: I think it is as damaging as and we just

755
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: need to reassess and recalibrate.

756
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: And it's long overdue.

757
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And there's a couple of other cases that will

758
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 4: be following next week. As a separate one that Meta

759
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 4: wrapped its testimony on Friday. This is a new Mexico

760
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 4: lawsuit that alleges harm to children and follow Yeah, and

761
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: these cases, Stephanie, as you said earlier, there are literally

762
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 4: hundreds waiting to be litigated and this could all mean billions.

763
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 4: With a B billions of dollars at stake. And also,

764
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 4: I'd like to correct myself. I referred to the pseudonym

765
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 4: as Kelsey, and indeed it is Kaylee. So excuse me,

766
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 4: use COURTNEYL Well, thank you if you're joining us. This

767
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: is no true crime tonight. And we have been talking

768
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 4: about what's going on in the jury rooms of the

769
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 4: civil trial against Meta and YouTube.

770
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: And now I think we're going to go to a

771
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: talk back.

772
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 9: Oh great, Hi ladies and gentlemen. It's went from LA.

773
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 9: I just wanted to say, I got home while I

774
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 9: was listening to your Thursday podcast and I got my

775
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 9: package in the mail.

776
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 7: So I'm so excited. I got my sweatshirt with allegedly

777
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 7: allegedly allegedly yes wear it, Thank you much. Oh that's awesome,

778
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 7: that's awesome.

779
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 4: What he's came just in time for it to be

780
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 4: too hot to wear.

781
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 2: In Los Angeles especially, it's really hot, so hot, can't

782
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: believe it. Is it going to be not so hot tomorrow?

783
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 4: It's supposed to.

784
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 6: It's supposed to cool down like next week or in

785
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 6: the middle of next week for me, But I mean

786
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 6: it's one hundred degrees it's hot.

787
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: Wow. So yeah, that.

788
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 6: May people will have some more chills ahead of us

789
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 6: to get cozy in our sweatshirts because they're totally comfortable.

790
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 3: They're so so crazy.

791
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, if someone doesn't know who's talking

792
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 2: right now, this is Taha, our producer, So in case

793
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: you're just joining us, that's Taha. And we also have

794
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: Sam and Adam who are our engineers on the iHeart side,

795
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: and they are waiting for your call or your talk

796
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 2: back in Burbank, so keep them coming. Just so everybody knows.

797
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 10: The players and we want to another talk back, Let's

798
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 10: do it like to.

799
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 11: So you guys are talking about Eddie Murphy's party all

800
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 11: the time as Taha's walk up song, and every time

801
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 11: you mentioned it, I flashed back to when my mom

802
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 11: was potty training me and that song was super popular

803
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 11: and she changed the words to potty all the Just

804
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 11: that I share it with you, it makes me giggle everything.

805
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: The bathroom.

806
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 11: Strangely, my name is Rachel from Philly.

807
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: From Philly.

808
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: That is first of all, so funny and so adorable.

809
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 12: No, as soon as I heard that, I now can

810
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 12: get that out of perfect.

811
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 6: That is the perfect song for potty training. You never

812
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 6: have thought and especially for little girls.

813
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 10: Oh my god, people listening don't know what's going on

814
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 10: last week or about I think it was almost a week.

815
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 4: Ago, a week ago.

816
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 6: I thank you.

817
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 10: What would your song be if you were walking out

818
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 10: on stage? Or your walk on stage or walk up?

819
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 10: I'm not even sure what is it? Walk on, walk up, walk.

820
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 3: Walk on music?

821
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: Imagine there is like a smoke machine and this is

822
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: again in your head, but if you had a smoke

823
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: machine and wind blowing and you were entering a room,

824
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: what would your what.

825
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 12: Would that song be? And we all said our songs.

826
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 10: I said a ridiculous one which was potty party all

827
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 10: the time, and now it's potty all the time. Everyone

828
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 10: had their great songs, believe it or not. We still

829
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 10: have people sending in some of those songs. We might

830
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 10: do a night later this week where we'll mention some

831
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 10: of the other songs.

832
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 12: So people love that. Thanks for listening and thanks for responding.

833
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 10: With your talkback. So keep them coming, and do we

834
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 10: have time for one more? I think we might have

835
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 10: a minute or two for a last one.

836
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 4: Do it?

837
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 8: Do it, Jim. It's Alicia from Atlanta. I just want

838
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 8: to let you know, thank you so much. I received

839
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 8: my merch and I'm so excited. It is a nice

840
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 8: comfy sweatshirt and the plan is to wearing on my

841
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 8: trip to Cherokey, North Carolina. I'm hit in the casino

842
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 8: and I'm sure I'm going to have the best of

843
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 8: luck with my sweating on. Thank you so much by.

844
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 4: Yeah advertise us in North Carolina. Girl, good to please. Yes,

845
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 4: I love it.

846
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: Great, great that I Heart even supplied us with and

847
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: these T shirts were so thankful and yeah, you're just

848
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 2: wrapped in hugs from us.

849
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: That's right.

850
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 6: And casinos, I have to know they keep it cold,

851
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 6: so briality right.

852
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 4: Away, gamble absolutely, and on that after we're going to

853
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 4: go to commercial. But keep it here because at the

854
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 4: top of the hour we're going to talk about two

855
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: medical professionals, both on trial for very different things. A

856
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 4: nurse who might be a mercy killer or not and

857
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 4: a doctor cruise of a brutal attack. Keep it here.

858
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight.

859
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're

860
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here

861
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: as always with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and

862
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: also we have producer Taha and Sam and Adam in

863
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 2: the house as well, waiting by the phones. Call us

864
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: live eight eight eight three one crime, or you could

865
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: always leave us a talkback. Now we're on KFI on

866
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: Sunday nights, but keep in mind you could always catch

867
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: us as a podcast five nights a week Sunday through

868
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: Thursday when we're live throughout the country. But we also

869
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: live as a podcast right after the show, so we

870
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 2: hope you'll check it out. There are so many more

871
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: cases to still get through. Courtney Armstring. Where should we

872
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: go next?

873
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 4: So this is a really complicated one. There's a case

874
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 4: where a forty eight year old nurse, her name is

875
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 4: Megan Sundwall. Now she has been charged with aggravated murder

876
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 4: as well as obstruction of dustice and this has to

877
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 4: do with the death of her friend, Casey Terry. Casey Kerry.

878
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 4: Casey Terry is obviously deceased. Now, what is rather complicated

879
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 4: is that the victim, and this is not disputed by

880
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 4: the defense or the prosecution, the victim for four years

881
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 4: told her friend, the nurse Megan, that she was terminally

882
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 4: ill and she had everything, including a port that she

883
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 4: would order saline for to make it seem as though

884
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 4: she were having chemotherapy treatments, and so what the defense

885
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 4: is saying, Nurse Megan's defense is saying, listen, she was

886
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 4: there to support the victim, Casey Terry, on her journey

887
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 4: into the afterlife because she was suffering. Complicating it further

888
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 4: is that Nurse Megan thought that she was going to

889
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 4: be the beneficiary of a one point five million dollar

890
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 4: life insurance policy that it turns out didn't exist. But

891
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 4: Nurse Megan didn't know that at the time.

892
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: And the reason why is because the to you know, listen,

893
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: they were friends and at some point and it seems

894
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: like the victim kind of wanted the nurse's approval or

895
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: maybe had some kind of obsession with me or something.

896
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: You know, maybe she just she really wanted acceptance. Clearly,

897
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 2: she was literally faking cancer, which is difficult on its nose,

898
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: but on the other side of that, devil's advocate, that's

899
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 2: a real cry for attention as well. And obviously she

900
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: wanted to be interesting. She's putting a port in her body.

901
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a little next level, but all

902
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: that to be said. At some point, just in casual conversation,

903
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 2: the victim says to this nurse. Hey, by the way,

904
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: I have a really good life insurance plan and when

905
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 2: I die, it's all you boo. I'm going to leave

906
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: it all to you. So verbally that was the understanding.

907
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 4: Correct, and in text messages as well. I remember one

908
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 4: where the accused said something akin to the gist was, well,

909
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 4: if you're gonna die anyway, this money would help me

910
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 4: out of my very tough spot. That's what she said. Yeah,

911
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 4: I'm not far off from that.

912
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm in a tough financial spot really. So the nurse

913
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: seems to have had some financial struggles and although she

914
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: maybe felt bad for the victim and her pretend to cancer,

915
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: she also saw dollar signs.

916
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 3: Potentially, that's what it seems like.

917
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 4: And you know, Nurse Megan also was offering sort of

918
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 4: multiple ways she could die and also multiple ways in

919
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 4: which she could help her friend hurry to the end

920
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 4: of her life. Now testimony, the victim's sister testified, and

921
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 4: what she said is that the victim, Kasey Terry, she

922
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 4: never expressed suicidal intent, but that she did express that

923
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 4: she feared the accused and she worried about making Nurse

924
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 4: Meghan mad, and that sometimes she felt unsafe.

925
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 2: She wanted to Nurse Meghan to be crazy for her,

926
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: and Nurse Meghan was not that into her. She was

927
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: just saying, how can I kill her slowly allegedly allegedly allegedly,

928
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: Like honestly, doctor Kravorkian, do you guys remember that, Like,

929
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: it's not legal to just randomly help somebody die. It is,

930
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 2: it's definitely, it's Listen, it is legal in certain circumstances,

931
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 2: and it's doctor approved, and it's a very, very very

932
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 2: big deal in the US. There are other places outside

933
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: of the country that that can happen. But again, you

934
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: would not have fake cancer and then be put to

935
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 2: death legally within the US.

936
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 6: No, you're absolutely right about that, correct. Wow, So do

937
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 6: we know was she was she? You might not know

938
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 6: this answer, Courtney. Do we this nurse that's on trial,

939
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 6: was she her nurse.

940
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 4: Or No? She didn't even need a nurse because she

941
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 4: wasn't even sick. It was no my understanding, No, she

942
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 4: didn't go visit her. But what has come out is

943
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 4: that the victim she would fake sometimes messages, pretending that

944
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 4: they came from other medical practitioners to share with her friend,

945
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 4: Nurse Megan. So it was very complicated up to the point.

946
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 4: So it seems like the how of her death is

947
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 4: not in dispute in the fact that it was an

948
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 4: insulin injection. So the question lies, did the victim inject herself,

949
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 4: which the prosecution says would not have been possible to

950
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 4: inject that much insulin, or did the accused push a

951
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 4: little extra And the accused nurse her father was also

952
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 4: involved in this. He was there the day that the

953
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 4: victim died, and he came to sort of say some words.

954
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 4: He was there in sort of a not acting as

955
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 4: a priest at all, but in sort of a religious

956
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 4: he was saying some religious.

957
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 3: Words, praying.

958
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there was that. And then also the victim's

959
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 4: sister came over that day and she told Nurse Megan

960
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 4: to get out of there before the authorities arrived and what. Yeah,

961
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 4: And I'm not I don't know why. Certainly the victim's

962
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 4: sister was not trying to protect Nurse Meghan. I don't

963
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 4: know if she just wanted her away from the situation,

964
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 4: couldn't stand in the sight of her or what.

965
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you possibly even if it's with

966
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: the best of intention, if you're trying to do a

967
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: mercy killing because this person is in so much pain.

968
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: Let's be honest, she was making it up so she

969
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 2: was not in that much pain. What nurse? What FACTA

970
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: nurse is like, you know what, I'm going to kill

971
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 2: you slowly out of grace and mercy. But I've never

972
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: looked at your medical files. I'm going to trust the

973
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: texts from you and your weirdo other nurses I call

974
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: such bs on this. I feel like there is zero

975
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 2: chance any capable nurse would not be able to call

976
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: uncle on the fact that this woman was making it up.

977
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 4: Right, it does appear she was very well incentivized by

978
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: that one point five million dollars. But we'll see again,

979
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 4: there's layers and this this trial is unpeeling all of them,

980
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 4: so we'll continue updating it as it goes along. Of course.

981
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, if you're just tuning, if you're just tuning in,

982
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 6: this is true crime tonight. We were just talking about

983
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 6: this insulin nurse trial. If you want to wait and

984
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 6: give us a call eighty eight to thirty one crime

985
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 6: or leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app.

986
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 6: And if you miss the show, no worries, you can

987
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 6: catch on the iHeartRadio app as a podcast five nights

988
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 6: week Right, five nights Week's Right. We're here live every

989
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 6: every night Sunday through Thursday. Now, Courtney, I understand you

990
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 6: have another case that you've been following.

991
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 4: Yes, this isn't This is another really interesting one, and

992
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 4: this one the victim is alive and speaking out a trial.

993
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 4: So doctor Gerhardt Coning. He is on trial for second

994
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 4: degree murder and attempted murder charges. And this comes from

995
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 4: allegedly trying to kill his wife during a hike that

996
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 4: happened almost right about a year ago. And the allegation

997
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 4: is that he attacked his wife, Ariel Coning, at a

998
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 4: lookout point in Hawaii. So they're at a beautiful place,

999
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 4: allegedly there for romantic outing. The victim, Ariel Coning, did

1000
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 4: not want to take a self with her husband now

1001
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 4: on trial, Gearhart Coning, and apparently he went rather berserk

1002
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 4: and cursed at her for not wanting to take a

1003
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,760
Speaker 4: selfie basically hanging off a cliff, and he then beat

1004
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 4: her is the allegation, with a rock, hitting her more

1005
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 4: than ten times, and further allegedly tried to get her.

1006
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 4: He had two syringes in his pockets with unknown substances.

1007
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 4: And again he's a doctor in anesthesiologists particular, so.

1008
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 2: Goes hiking with syringes in their back pocket.

1009
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 3: I mean, think about this.

1010
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 2: Gearhart is out and about with his denim jeans and

1011
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: like syringes in his back pocket, and his beautiful bride

1012
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 2: unknowingly is just going up there and he's set into

1013
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:54,959
Speaker 2: killer like this is so premeditated. That's the accusation.

1014
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 4: And in fact, when he was per the accusation hitting

1015
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 4: his wife with a rock, two women were also hiking

1016
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 4: and they called nine one one. We actually have some

1017
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 4: of the audio.

1018
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 3: Let's hear it.

1019
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 7: Hi attacked on help of poly cooka where there's a

1020
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 7: man trying to kill her.

1021
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 2: She it all over her face.

1022
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 4: We heard her streaming, help me, help me, and then

1023
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 4: we saw that over her.

1024
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 12: And then she called out over her face say I'm.

1025
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 3: Trying to kill her.

1026
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 2: Thank God for these bystanders. Can you imagine? And by

1027
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: the way, this is such a hats off to these

1028
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 2: young ladies who happened to be walking by. You know,

1029
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: the bystander effect is so real. It's so easy not

1030
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: to make that call, and you know, we really encourage

1031
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: to do it in a safe way. Of course when

1032
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: you're outside of the line of fire, but see something,

1033
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: say something. This is going to be one of the

1034
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 2: most pivotal pieces in this trial as proof that this

1035
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: is what happened, because this fococked guy is a liar.

1036
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 4: Well unless you hear what the defense is saying. And

1037
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 4: so the defense they're challenging intent, they're questioning the existently

1038
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 4: you know, whether or not the syringes were there, so

1039
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 4: that we need to find out more in trial. I

1040
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 4: don't know how it's in question or not, but also

1041
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 4: the sequence of the events and saying hey, listen, just listen.

1042
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 4: The evidence may not support this attempted murder. So what

1043
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 4: the defense claims is that the victim, wife Ariel, hit

1044
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 4: the defendant. She hit her husband with a rock first,

1045
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 4: and then this doctor on trial picked up a rock

1046
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 4: sort of in self defense and hit her two times,

1047
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 4: not the ten times that has been alleged. So that's

1048
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 4: they're kind of the defense is claiming self defense, which

1049
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 4: listening to that nine one one call seems like maybe

1050
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 4: a stretch.

1051
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 6: So I just so I had to go see what

1052
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 6: like he looks like. I don't know why I was

1053
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 6: like compelled to do that. But the defense is also

1054
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 6: claiming that he the doctor, discovered his wife was having

1055
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 6: an affair months earlier and had been struggling emotionally in

1056
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 6: the lead up to the trip, and according to the defense,

1057
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 6: the couple traveled to a Wahoo in an effort to reconnect,

1058
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 6: even spending their first day at a spa and planning

1059
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 6: a dinner date after the hike, and then on the trail,

1060
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 6: she brought up, you know, continuing this relationship with this

1061
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 6: other guy she was having an affair with. So he's

1062
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 6: he's saying, like everything was her fault, right, Like, he's

1063
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 6: saying everything is her fault. And they claim she pushed

1064
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 6: him first near the cliff side in that situation. Yeah,

1065
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 6: what you had just said.

1066
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 2: But think about it, why would you have the syringes though?

1067
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: So here you are it's her fault. On the one hand,

1068
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously that's very difficult for him to learn

1069
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 2: that perhaps allegedly she was having this other relationship and

1070
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: she maybe didn't want to rekindle after being on this

1071
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: you know, Hawaiian get away of sexiness. Maybe she was like,

1072
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 2: actually time out, I want out. Yeah, and he's snapped. Yeah,

1073
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: that's possible. By the way, just thank god she wanted out.

1074
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: She must have known in her gut because people don't

1075
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: just snap like that and take a rock and murder you.

1076
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 2: But he also had those syringes, so this was not

1077
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: a snap. You don't put syringes in the back of

1078
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: your pans and like hike up a hill on this,

1079
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 2: you know, said romantic get away. This guy is acting

1080
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: a little bit. It seems like the only victim around.

1081
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 3: People break up. Listen, right or wrong.

1082
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 2: People have affairs, People break up, they get divorced, right

1083
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 2: or wrong. Say what you want about any of it.

1084
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: That is not a reason for murder. And you don't

1085
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: get to just murder your wife with a rock, toss

1086
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 2: off a cliff and for the best and then go

1087
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: about your life.

1088
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 4: Another interesting moment. First of all, Stephanie correct on all

1089
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 4: of that affairs happened. Don't push anyone off a cliff.

1090
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 4: I mean, come on, whatever side drive, come on, that's

1091
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 4: another shirt.

1092
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 5: But also the prosecution brought up an alleged FaceTime that

1093
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 5: the defendant, doctor Gerhart Koning, he face timed his nineteen

1094
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 5: year old son, who was from another mother.

1095
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 4: He appeared to be covered in blood at the time

1096
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 4: this happened. Up at the top of the cliff, and

1097
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 4: on the call or the FaceTime rather, he said, I

1098
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 4: just tried to kill Ari, but she got away, and

1099
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 4: then reportedly told his son that he plans to jump

1100
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 4: off the cliff.

1101
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: And what a good dad.

1102
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 3: This guy.

1103
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: Sounds like such a catch, is it. First of all,

1104
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 2: I'm so terribly sorry for her that she was with

1105
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: this nut in the first place, because obviously he had

1106
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 2: these tendencies. And to do that to your kid. Have

1107
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: your child see you covered in blood. Have your child

1108
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: even think that the two of you are fighting so

1109
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: deeply that it could end in murder again, blow him.

1110
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 6: Up allegedly allegedly. Well, Prince Andrew resurfaces after his arrest

1111
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 6: and Tendra Duggar, the wife of Joseph Dugger, she's now charged.

1112
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 6: What role does she play? Keep it right here at

1113
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 6: True Crime Tonight.

1114
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: Well, welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're

1115
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and

1116
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 2: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and body Move in and listen.

1117
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: We have a stacked house tonight. We have Taha, our

1118
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: producer and engineers Sam and Adam here as well.

1119
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 3: On this perfect Sunday night.

1120
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: So listen, Prince Andrew, he's been officially cited, and listen.

1121
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 2: People want Andrew out of the mix. He seems to

1122
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: be the biggest high profile person who's really being affected

1123
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: by this Epstein relationship. Obviously, probably, I would say pretty candidly,

1124
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 2: of all the people who are now facing consequences because

1125
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: of their association with Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew is taking

1126
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: the real hit quick, right, would you agree? Is that accurate?

1127
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 4: Listen, he's one of Yes, he is the most high profile,

1128
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 4: arguably person to have any prosecution or any repercussions from this.

1129
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 4: Do I think in the alleged see of people surrounding

1130
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 4: and entangled with Epstein that he saw the most, did

1131
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 4: the most. Whatever remains to be seen. But he is

1132
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 4: the only one to be prosecuted for it.

1133
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 6: Well, he's he's been being prosecuted for selling state secrets, right, correct?

1134
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 6: That doesn't necessarily happen. Let me ask you. I'm asking

1135
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 6: a question, Stephanie, because you're the the you know, the

1136
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 6: the local resident expert, resident expert here.

1137
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 3: My resident expert on you are.

1138
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 6: Is that is that selling state secrets in connection to

1139
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 6: Epstein or is there no connection at all?

1140
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, it's because it was revealed in the

1141
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 3: Epstein file.

1142
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 11: It was.

1143
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 4: It's really because.

1144
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 2: These three million documents. And if you're just playing along

1145
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 2: and haven't been following the Epstein saga, you know the

1146
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: Department of Justice has released three million plus documents. Allegedly

1147
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: there is two million more that we're not going to see.

1148
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: And again this includes video, et cetera, and all things

1149
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 2: connected to Jeffrey Epstein.

1150
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 4: The very.

1151
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: Impressive han of a man who was apparently compromising every

1152
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 2: single part about or entire world, whether that is the

1153
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 2: royal family or politics here in the United States, shipping, academia,

1154
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 2: of technology, I mean, you name it. This man banking

1155
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: obviously at its core. So he and Prince Andrew were buds.

1156
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about Prince Andrew, though, which I think

1157
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 2: it's under everybody's you know, skin, even extra He's one

1158
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: of many many people who have said, I don't even

1159
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 2: know the guy. I've never seen it, I've never been

1160
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 2: to a No, no, no, that is not me. That's

1161
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 2: a photograph of me and the victim of Virginia Goufrey.

1162
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 2: She's making it up. That's a conjured photo. I wasn't

1163
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: in that birthday book. Everybody is like, I have no idea. Well,

1164
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 2: Andrew turns out like it now has borne out to

1165
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: be not only true, but very.

1166
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 4: True, absolutely very true. And you know, the reason we

1167
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,040
Speaker 4: are speaking about the man formerly known as Prince and

1168
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 4: tonight is because just yesterday there was a sighting and

1169
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 4: I believe it is the first since he walked out

1170
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 4: and he went outside, he went outside. It was his

1171
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 4: first public appearance since that arrest, just sort of walking

1172
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 4: near his home in England, his new home, his new

1173
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 4: home after being kicked out of the last one and

1174
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 4: body you asked about, you know, the connection with the

1175
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 4: state secrets. Yeah, because Andrew was sharing that with Jeffrey Epstein,

1176
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 4: you know, and this happened over the course of a decade,

1177
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 4: going back two thousand and one twenty eleven, you know,

1178
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 4: and he had a lot of information in the UK

1179
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 4: trade envoy.

1180
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: Are you telling me he was working as an official

1181
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 2: trade envoy? Just also, that's a really big underscore exclamation

1182
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 2: point moment, because yes, yes, he's also been associated with

1183
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 2: underage girls that are connected to sex trafficking and and

1184
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 2: and that is very real, and that is one train

1185
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: that is coming in to the station at the royal family,

1186
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 2: specifically Prince Andrew and his beloved Fergie. However, what he's

1187
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 2: really being accused of and will likely go down for,

1188
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: is the fact that he was sharing really state secrets,

1189
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: you know, for lack of a better word, while operating

1190
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 2: as the state envoy. So he's giving Jeffrey Epstein the

1191
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 2: goods that is treason air quotes.

1192
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 6: So here's what's frightening to me about that is that

1193
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 6: I six, which is you know, the investigative arm of

1194
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 6: the crown right the UK and Scotland yard, which is

1195
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 6: like their FBI, I guess is the best way to play.

1196
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1197
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 6: They didn't know about this until the Epstein files were released,

1198
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 6: is is what I'm state. Did everybody do you feel well,

1199
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 6: that's what I was going to say. Do you feel

1200
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 6: like they knew and just didn't do anything because he

1201
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 6: was the prince at the time, or did Are they

1202
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 6: prosecuting him now because now, okay it's not in the

1203
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 6: public we have have to do something.

1204
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 2: Probably a little bit of both, and I think that's

1205
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: pretty D's a question a lot of maybe what did

1206
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth know? We know that she whether she knew

1207
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 2: it or not, had money that was attributed to a

1208
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: payoff essentially for victims. So does you know King Charles

1209
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: and now knew King Charles was aware of what his

1210
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 2: brother was up to. I would say likely. Let's just

1211
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 2: be reminded, Prince Andrew, if you're not familiar. This guy went. Oh,

1212
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 2: he played all in on this one. He went in

1213
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 2: on the lie like nobody else. He sat down for

1214
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 2: an interview on camera in twenty nineteen.

1215
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 3: They since had to.

1216
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: Make a movie about it because it was so ridiculous

1217
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 2: and absurd.

1218
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: And he just denied. Deny, deny, I deny.

1219
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 2: That is how out to lunch this man is in

1220
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 2: the real world. He denied it. By the way, he

1221
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 2: denied some of the allegations about him from young women.

1222
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 2: Again the other topic. We're taking it away from the

1223
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 2: treason for a second. And he said, well, that's impossible.

1224
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 2: She says, I was sweating. I was sweating in the

1225
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 2: bed when I was with her. I have a disease

1226
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 2: where I don't sweat. Meanwhile, he's like sweating as he's talking, right,

1227
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 2: So I mean I'm sweating just thinking about it. Like

1228
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 2: he doubled down on the lie. Beyond lie. He you know,

1229
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 2: Virginia Goufrey, May she rest in peace. She is the

1230
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 2: original original victim that made it her life's mission to

1231
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,839
Speaker 2: find justice. And there's that infamous photo of Prince Andrew

1232
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: in that long haired, young blonde girl in his arm

1233
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: is around her. That is his victim, allegedly by her,

1234
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: and he said it was a made up photo. He's

1235
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 2: never even met that woman. Now there is proof in

1236
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: these files that okay, obviously that wasn't true. And then

1237
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 2: there's more more, more more, So the Epstein files can

1238
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 2: be very fatiguing, and everyone seems to have maybe like

1239
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: black out a little bit by this sex trafficking and

1240
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: underage and all the things. However, if you're on a

1241
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 2: real mission and you've been paid by the UK, the

1242
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 2: Commonwealth is paying for your salary to be, you know,

1243
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 2: representing the UK, and it's fact that you are trading

1244
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: secrets that would affect global financial scenarios with Jeffrey Epstein,

1245
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 2: that is illegal and that is a very very real crime.

1246
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 2: So aside from his, like all of the Shenanigans, even

1247
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 2: Sarah Ferguson was accepting money from Jeffrey Epstein to pay

1248
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 2: off for like her assistant, even after he was already

1249
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 2: you know, a condemned and guilty sex offender.

1250
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 3: You know, they all denied it. Oh, I don't even

1251
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 3: know him.

1252
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 2: I've ever been been to the island.

1253
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 3: Oh there eight times? Look at that.

1254
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 2: So the Epstein files have just disproved this. What seems

1255
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 2: like everybody and their brother who claimed to not be

1256
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 2: associated with him at all kind of were by the way,

1257
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 2: you know what, one good need, one good deed. That

1258
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,799
Speaker 2: I did find today in the Epstein files. The CEO

1259
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 2: of Ermez h E R m e s. You know

1260
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 2: the fancy scarves, the Hermez scarf. It's actually pronounced Ermez,

1261
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:14,719
Speaker 2: very Parisian, very fancy. There's like multiple like exchanges between

1262
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein or someone who works for Jeffrey Epstein trying

1263
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 2: to connect with this person and like do his thing right,

1264
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,600
Speaker 2: like woo him into his circle. And this guy was

1265
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 2: like shut him down so deeply, would not go to

1266
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 2: the island, would not have a meeting with him, would

1267
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 2: not let his daughter meet him, Like was a hard no.

1268
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 2: And there are several men in these files that were

1269
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 2: just like what hard no. And the CEO of Ermez

1270
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 2: is one of them.

1271
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 6: Well for humanity, I guess, yeah, thank you. There's plenty

1272
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 6: of great men out there. Candidly, it doesn't appear that

1273
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 6: Prince Andrew is one of them. And I think there's

1274
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 6: just a lot of cleanup to be happening around them.

1275
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 6: And I feel for his daughters who have to sort

1276
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 6: of now wear this like badge of silliness because their

1277
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 6: dad is.

1278
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 4: A liar period. Although I will say that, you know,

1279
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 4: the Crown has not taken away their titles, and I

1280
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 4: think they're doing because it's not their shame.

1281
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 6: It's not it has nothing to do with them. Yeah, no,

1282
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 6: it's not their fault.

1283
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 2: I just actually believed Andrew. I watched the movie, I

1284
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 2: saw his interview. I was like, well, no one's gonna

1285
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 2: go on like lie that much with a straight face

1286
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 2: and go out of their way. He like, it's almost

1287
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 2: like he enjoyed the attention. And man, he is a liar. Yeah,

1288
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 2: you're a liar and he's getting a lot of attention though.

1289
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,959
Speaker 4: Yes indeed. So as always, we will keep you updated

1290
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 4: as new info on this comes out, and we'd love

1291
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 4: to hear from you. This is true crime tonight. If

1292
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 4: you're just joining us I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm so lucky

1293
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 4: to be here as always with my buddy Body Movin

1294
01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 4: and Stephanie Leidecker and the whole gang producer Taha Adam

1295
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 4: and Sam in the control room, who are waiting for

1296
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 4: your calls.

1297
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 2: Eighty eight three one crime. Now body, you have another case.

1298
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 6: I've been dying to talk about this. I've been sitting

1299
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 6: on my hands like all night waiting to talk about this.

1300
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 6: So we reported last week on the arrest of Joseph Dugger, right,

1301
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,919
Speaker 6: the Duggers. Okay, Well, there's a new development involving his wife.

1302
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 6: His wife, Kendra Okay, Kenderdugger. She's been charged in connection

1303
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 6: with a broader investigation and was released from custody just

1304
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 6: hours after her arrest. She posted bond For those catching up.

1305
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 6: Joseph Dugger was arrested last week in connection with alleged

1306
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 6: misconduct involving a nine year old girl tied to a

1307
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 6: twenty twenty incident in Florida. Okay, so again. She was

1308
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 6: arrested on March twentieth. Kenderdugger, she's the wife. She was

1309
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 6: arrested in Arkansas and released the same day after posting bond,

1310
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 6: and she was seen, you know, just hours after being booked,

1311
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 6: marking the first time she's been directly linked do criminal

1312
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 6: charges in this case? Apparently there's some investigation happening in Arkansas.

1313
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 2: How is this outside is the secondest son? So can

1314
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 2: we just do the math here? So there are how

1315
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 2: many children in this family? Nineteen kids in counting, I

1316
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 2: think twenty now we're still counting, no one accounting.

1317
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 3: I think we need to stop with the kids.

1318
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 2: Number one, the idea that two of your sons have

1319
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 2: now been brought into custody and have mugshots associated with

1320
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 2: sexual misconduct or abuse or assault. One of them, the

1321
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: previous brother, the older one whose name I won't even say,

1322
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: you know, admitted publicly to like doing terrible sexual things

1323
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 2: to his sisters, his baby sisters, who then have to

1324
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 2: live this down. So that's multiple sisters now, multiple brothers,

1325
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 2: and one of the brothers sister in law. I think

1326
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 2: we need to investigate the parents at this point, like

1327
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 2: we need a larger conversation to happen with teams, and

1328
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 2: I would like.

1329
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 6: To do that because the dad, Jim Bob, I think

1330
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 6: his name is Jim Jim Bob.

1331
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 3: Let's talk to Jimbob about this.

1332
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 6: So when you did, no, I would like to, oh, Jimbob,

1333
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 6: well might.

1334
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 3: Have very insightful.

1335
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 4: Right.

1336
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 6: So when the older brother got arrested, Joseph, the other

1337
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 6: what's his name, Josh, the older one, Josh, when he

1338
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 6: got when he when he was doing this with his sisters,

1339
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 6: he got you know, caught or he confessed and somebody

1340
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 6: told he was he had.

1341
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 4: Child when he was a kid.

1342
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 6: Though they caught him, okay, and instead of like handling

1343
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 6: it the correct way, they sent him to like a

1344
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 6: labor camp.

1345
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:49,799
Speaker 4: Okay.

1346
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 6: Then he comes back, does it again. Then they just

1347
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 6: went to their church elders to get like advice on

1348
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,719
Speaker 6: what to do. Like at some point, aren't the church

1349
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 6: elder mandated reporters?

1350
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 4: I mean, isn't that something that needs to be investigated.

1351
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 2: This is clearly something though that is an adopted psyche

1352
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 2: that has to be coming from someplace else other than their.

1353
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 4: Entire with the family treat It has to be.

1354
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 2: With the parents or whatever. These church advisors are again, like,

1355
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 2: something is wrong with who's teaching everybody here?

1356
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 6: Well, and I don't know what the stististics are, but

1357
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 6: how many how many men out of twenty are these

1358
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 6: types of people?

1359
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,480
Speaker 12: Is it two, because so maybe that's.

1360
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 2: Pedophiles who have child pornography and want to have sex

1361
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 2: with their sisters.

1362
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,959
Speaker 3: I think it's low. The number is actually low, or.

1363
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 2: If it's not, it's something we really need to talk

1364
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: about because those sisters had to really go through it,

1365
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 2: and that one in particular like it pick up them,

1366
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,520
Speaker 2: you know, she's got to pick up the pieces.

1367
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 4: For our whole life. I will say this stuck out

1368
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 4: to me that Josh Duggar, who again was the first

1369
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 4: one brought under chick is I'm very surprised that this.

1370
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:07,639
Speaker 4: He expressed sympathy for his brother through his attorney and said, hey,

1371
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,679
Speaker 4: you know he understands the pressure of being under public scrutiny. Yeah,

1372
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 4: you know what, attorney, what is going on out?

1373
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 2: But don't you think Courtney doesn't that kind of imply

1374
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 2: And again we're just like, we don't know this to

1375
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 2: be fact, but it just seems like we're kind of

1376
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 2: implying that whatever bubble these duggers have been raised in,

1377
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 2: this is not that weird. So for Josh Dugger to

1378
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 2: come out and say, hey, dude, I totally get it.

1379
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 3: I feel for my brother. Listen, I first.

1380
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 2: Hand know what it's like to be in the public

1381
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,679
Speaker 2: eye when there are allegations the public guy is really

1382
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 2: not the problem here, team Dugger. The public guy is

1383
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 2: the last of your problems. The problem is that you

1384
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 2: are sexually assaulting young women, even your own family members,

1385
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 2: and in collecting child pornography.

1386
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 4: And on that. Listen and please do stick around, and

1387
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 4: we have a lot more to dig into the rest

1388
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 4: of the show. We've got a bunch of talkbacks, so

1389
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 4: we want to hear what you want us to speak about,

1390
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 4: So keep it here. True Crime Tonight, where we are

1391
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 4: talking true crime all the time.

1392
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1393
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

1394
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 2: and Boddy. I cannot believe this night has just flown

1395
01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 2: by yet again. So we have some talkbacks coming in

1396
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,759
Speaker 2: that we'll get to. But before we do that, Boddy,

1397
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 2: I know you wanted to add a little something to

1398
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 2: the conversation regarding the Douggers.

1399
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I said, I was waiting all night to

1400
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 4: talk about this.

1401
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 2: Bring my sister brand.

1402
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 6: It's such an interesting situation, so I wanted to let

1403
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 6: everybody know. Joseph Duggar he's waived a tradition, and he's

1404
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 6: expected to face prosecution in Florida or the alleged incident

1405
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 6: took place, Okay. Separately from that case, all right, his wife, Kendra,

1406
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 6: there's apparently some kind of broader investigation happening in Arkansas, Okay.

1407
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 6: So at the same time, both Joseph and Kendra are

1408
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 6: facing additional charges in Arkansas, Okay. And these include counts

1409
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 6: related to endangering the welfare of a minor and false imprisonment.

1410
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 6: And the reason I wanted to talk about this can

1411
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 6: we unpact this can absolute?

1412
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 4: What are they investigating?

1413
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 6: Like? What kind of situations? Can you be charged with

1414
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 6: endangering a minor? And false imprisonment?

1415
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 4: Right?

1416
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,680
Speaker 6: Well, let's break it down, right, false imprisonment it's basically,

1417
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 6: you know, blocking somebody from leaving that dwelling using threats

1418
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 6: or intimidation. If you leave, I'm gonna hurt you. I'm

1419
01:19:54,120 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 6: gonna tell you know, yeah, taking taking someone's somewhere, not

1420
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 6: letting them return home, you know, detaining somebody you know unlawfully.

1421
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 6: That's that's false imprisonment. Right, and then if a miner's involved,

1422
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 6: is it possible or endangering the welfare of a child.

1423
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:21,719
Speaker 6: Is it maybe something like a runaway or a miner

1424
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,879
Speaker 6: at your house and not letting them call their parents?

1425
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 2: Yes? Is it something along those lines? Is it could

1426
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 2: be the thing that's in cahoots with your husband? The

1427
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,759
Speaker 2: idea that a husband and now wife that are being

1428
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 2: charged separately. Now she was, she was arrested, she was booked,

1429
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 2: and then she was ultimately released on bail, kind of

1430
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: on the heels of her husband. But again, this is

1431
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 2: not somebody who was like, my husband is innocent. I

1432
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 2: have no idea what's been going?

1433
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 5: Right?

1434
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 2: Again, I think this is really pointing to something that's

1435
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 2: far more insidious and far more important for us to

1436
01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 2: discuss and continue to discuss. Is the idea that they

1437
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 2: are being raised in an environment or in a bubble

1438
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 2: that says this is perfectly normal, and therefore they're like, wait,

1439
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 2: what's the problem here?

1440
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 6: Wait what a feeling? It's going to be something like

1441
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,839
Speaker 6: a member of their church, a miner who was seeking

1442
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 6: refuge maybe from a situation they weren't happy with, and

1443
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 6: then maybe they wanted to leave, and then they weren't allowed.

1444
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 6: Something along those lines. But I don't know.

1445
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 2: Are they they're religious? They're religious, right, so if anybody

1446
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 2: who doesn't know who the Duggers are. By the way,

1447
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 2: they had this television show on TLC for many many years.

1448
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 2: I think it was called nine, maybe it was eighteen incounting,

1449
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 2: then it was nineteen encounting, and it's basically, you know,

1450
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:51,880
Speaker 2: mom and Dad have a bajillion kids, and it's like though,

1451
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 2: the hilarity and the love that ensues when you see

1452
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 2: nineteen kids, you know, living lives that are a little

1453
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:03,639
Speaker 2: outside of the you know, the norm world, like they are.

1454
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 2: They are religious. They were matching out am I understating this?

1455
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 2: There is that act they are.

1456
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 6: They belong to, you know, it very conservative Christian group

1457
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 6: and it's it's called the Independent Baptist Movement, and it's

1458
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,719
Speaker 6: the institute of in basic Life principles and they believe

1459
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 6: very strict you know, gender roles. Males lead. Women are

1460
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 6: very submissive. They dressed very modestly. You know, you'll see

1461
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 6: them in the long dresses, very rarely ever showing any

1462
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:42,480
Speaker 6: skin if they're if they're female, they often have homeschooling.

1463
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 6: They avoid all kinds of secular culture, you know, very

1464
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 6: limited TV and music exposure.

1465
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like each other's close and.

1466
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 6: There's nothing wrong with that of courdately, like you're allowed

1467
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 6: to do that. But something about this specific and this

1468
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,599
Speaker 6: specific home, I don't know.

1469
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 2: Something there when.

1470
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 10: You just broke the church, when you described the sort

1471
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,879
Speaker 10: of the breakups sort of that family, how their situator

1472
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 10: or the situation, do you think there's a chance that

1473
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 10: the wife, Kendra might have done what the husband has said,

1474
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 10: this is what you're supposed to do, follow along with me.

1475
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 10: So that's why she's tied up in the cares.

1476
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 8: She's not.

1477
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 2: Of course, they're like grooming these women to be submissive

1478
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 2: and to be able to exist in a world. Remember

1479
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 2: Josh Dugger again, this is the previous brother, older brother

1480
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 2: that was brought up on charges many years ago. You know,

1481
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 2: this didn't come out like the sister was like, oh, yes,

1482
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 2: this happened.

1483
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 3: She like because he was arrested.

1484
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 2: Like, my fear would be that this is something that's

1485
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 2: being normalized right.

1486
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 4: Right, And actually the timeline Stephanie would kind of bear

1487
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 4: that out. So it was all the way back in

1488
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen that reports came out about Josh the eldest son,

1489
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 4: that he molested several girls, including four of his sisters.

1490
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:17,799
Speaker 4: Four of his sisters were only part of the girls

1491
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:21,719
Speaker 4: he was molesting. Now, there were no criminal charges filed

1492
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 4: in that, and indeed it took.

1493
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 2: They went to the church, help to the church. By

1494
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 2: the way, we're not being disparaging against churches. This is

1495
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 2: a very specific, very specific, you know.

1496
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 6: Slice that I do not.

1497
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:36,679
Speaker 1: Right.

1498
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 4: So, the church.

1499
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 6: The guy that basically runs the church, his name is

1500
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:47,680
Speaker 6: Bill Gothard, and he has faced sexual assault claims. Dozens

1501
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 6: of women, many of whom were teenagers at the time,

1502
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 6: accused him of grooming, sexual harassment, inappropriate touching, isolating young

1503
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 6: women in private settings, and you know, under the guise

1504
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 6: of like mentorship. Right and so this is something that

1505
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 6: I feel like maybe is like the fruit of the

1506
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 6: poisonous tree.

1507
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 2: This family, you know exactly, and I think that needs

1508
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 2: a closer look. And by the way, it feels like

1509
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 2: it's everywhere right now. Again, the amount of stories that

1510
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 2: we talk about about either families or adult men, you know,

1511
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: having sexual relations in some way with underage girls is horrifying.

1512
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 2: By the way, it's like there was we work in

1513
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 2: true crime, that is something that is now being so

1514
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 2: it's so prevalent. I mean, we cover so many cases

1515
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 2: of this that. I'm so grateful that we get to

1516
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 2: talk about it. Imagine how much has gone on said

1517
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 2: for so.

1518
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 6: Long, right, and that this specific and to your point,

1519
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:54,559
Speaker 6: this specific like sect of their religion they discourage outside oversight.

1520
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 6: I wonder what so for jim Bob to go to

1521
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 6: the church instead of going to police is normal for them.

1522
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 2: Of course, because they don't want to be found out

1523
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 2: in Jimbo. By the way, if you're not playing along though,

1524
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: it's the father of these nineteen you know, children who

1525
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 2: have now gone on to have their own children. So

1526
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 2: it's like there, it's like a commune of sorts, you know,

1527
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 2: they're yeah, the family grows, newcomers come in and let's

1528
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 2: have more kids. And I don't know between that the

1529
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 2: Epstein files, what's Timboose.

1530
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 4: Is his name?

1531
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 2: They feel like every time we turn around, all I

1532
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 2: could think of, thank god, we're talking about this. How

1533
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 2: many victims have been voiceless for so long? And how

1534
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 2: many people think this is the norm. If Jeffrey Epstein

1535
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 2: thought it was the norm and everybody around him thought

1536
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 2: it was the norm, it turns out the duggers probably

1537
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 2: thought it was normal too. They probably did.

1538
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, anyway, I just wanted to tie that little bow

1539
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 6: up in that story that we talked about in the

1540
01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:58,639
Speaker 6: previous segments. So thank you for anythingbody would talk about. Yeah,

1541
01:26:58,680 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 6: let's go to talk.

1542
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 13: About So my question is, why does America make people

1543
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:07,879
Speaker 13: like David be able to get away with this stuff?

1544
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 13: Why don't we pull in the reins and get beyond

1545
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 13: questionable cause or all the other stuff they it's in

1546
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 13: the way of this because innocent kids. There's three cases

1547
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 13: on this kid? Are you serious?

1548
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 6: I know, And he's such a good question, he's so right.

1549
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 6: But I mean, if it's not a rhetorical question, if

1550
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 6: it's a legitimate like, hey, why it's because of double jobbardy,

1551
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:35,400
Speaker 6: I mean that's I mean, that's why you are innocent

1552
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 6: until proven guilty in this country. And once the state decides, oh,

1553
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 6: maybe this guy's guilty of something, they ask a jury

1554
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 6: of your peersky, can we indict this guy for this

1555
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 6: these charges? That happens. Then you go to trial, you're

1556
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:51,719
Speaker 6: found guilty or not guilty, and if you're found not guilty,

1557
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 6: you can never be prosecuted again.

1558
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 2: Ever, So they got it get in.

1559
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 3: I guess that's fair.

1560
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 2: But also it's pretty scary that this clown is just

1561
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: walking around in the real world. If in fact this

1562
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 2: is true, it's horrifying. And by the way, the caller,

1563
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 2: thank you for the talkback. We have aunt your name,

1564
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 2: but you should be running the world because again, there's

1565
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 2: so many extraordinary great men and fame plays a big

1566
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: part in this also, And I wonder what values we've

1567
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 2: all gotten a little confused maybe, And this is a

1568
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 2: great reset between the Bachelorette. By the way, I worked

1569
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 2: with the Bachelor, so I get it. But I feel

1570
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 2: like we're all evolving and growing and we know better,

1571
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 2: and there's like this great recalibration that needs to.

1572
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 6: Happen, right, And thank you KFI for that talk back,

1573
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 6: by the way, that was you okay, my listeners, and

1574
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 6: you know into his question too, like maybe there is

1575
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,640
Speaker 6: if that's if that's not it, if it's not a

1576
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 6: double Jeopardy thing, then yeah, maybe this guy's fame, like

1577
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 6: you said, Courtney or stuff like, maybe this is somehow

1578
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 6: it's so getting him out of the hook of some kind.

1579
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,679
Speaker 2: And it's how about the fact, have you guys seen

1580
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,680
Speaker 2: the photographs that are being circulated. These are just photographs

1581
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 2: that we've I personally have seen of Justin Bieber and Usher.

1582
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 3: Did you see this? They were at a party post

1583
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 3: the Oscars and it.

1584
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 2: Got very heated.

1585
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 3: And now there's photographic proof.

1586
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:14,600
Speaker 2: Again I'm hearing this from seeing it on television and

1587
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 2: probably TMZ or something, but there's basically a photograph of

1588
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,679
Speaker 2: Justin Bieber getting very heavy and hot in Usher's face

1589
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 2: at this after party at the Oscars. And there was

1590
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 2: onlookers and there was revelers, and people noticed it and

1591
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,440
Speaker 2: it was Justin going to Usher. And here's why that's significant,

1592
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 2: and it did hard out. They were apparently, according to

1593
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,640
Speaker 2: sources that are good ones saying that yes, it was

1594
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 2: a heated conversation about Diddy, it was Diddy related.

1595
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 3: That's not even up for question.

1596
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 2: And if you guys aren't familiar with this case, you know,

1597
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 2: Justin Bieber was discovered and brought to Los Angeles under

1598
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 2: Scooter Braun and Usher was kind of who discovered him.

1599
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:55,799
Speaker 3: And by the way, Usher was kind of a kid himself.

1600
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 2: He was like also a child star who had now

1601
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 2: aged out of that. And Justin Bieber's mother had to

1602
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 2: give custody literally over to Usher and the Scooter Braun

1603
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,559
Speaker 2: world at the time because you know, he was a kid,

1604
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,439
Speaker 2: he was a baby, and mom of course wanted him

1605
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 2: to fulfill his dreams. And you know, imagine, looking at

1606
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 2: it now, it seems like a real setup for disaster.

1607
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 2: But back then, this was a dream come true. This

1608
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 2: was your This was what every kid is wishing for

1609
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 2: until Diddy steps into the mix.

1610
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:26,759
Speaker 3: And now we've seen.

1611
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 2: Those videos where Usher then hands over said custody to

1612
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 2: Ditty at least for one weekend.

1613
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:34,680
Speaker 3: There's video proof of that.

1614
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 2: And now that we know about Diddy in his wonderful ways,

1615
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,679
Speaker 2: and by wonderful I mean hideous. He you know, it's

1616
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 2: been alleged this never came up in Ditty's trial, but

1617
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,719
Speaker 2: it has been alleged that was justin Bieber, a part

1618
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 2: of this messy world that Diddy was creating and living in.

1619
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 2: And we've always speculated about it because it's just heart wrenching.

1620
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 2: You know, this is somebody who is top of the

1621
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,679
Speaker 2: world and probably looks like the world fell on top

1622
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 2: of him, and how unfair that must be. And here

1623
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 2: he is starting his own family. It must bring up

1624
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 2: so much. I can only imagine if this is true allegedly,

1625
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:19,759
Speaker 2: then yeah, maybe he's saying to Usher in this video.

1626
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 2: You brought me into this mess. You created a bubble

1627
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 2: for me that I was supposed to feel safe and

1628
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:27,760
Speaker 2: I didn't know better. You put me in the hand

1629
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 2: of a predator. And my point being it ties back

1630
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 2: to David again. We get in the oh, it's so great.

1631
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 2: We're with a pop star. I live in the Hollywood Hills.

1632
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:40,439
Speaker 2: You know, you're frankly allowing your self assessment. You're getting

1633
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 2: access to a potential predator. Again, we look back at

1634
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 2: the batch again, we're looking at predatorial behavior, which is

1635
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:48,799
Speaker 2: again why I'm so psyched.

1636
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:51,559
Speaker 3: We talk about it because it's again not the norm.

1637
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:53,719
Speaker 3: There's more of us.

1638
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 2: There are more, you know, people who want good in

1639
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 2: the world and have hope. Male and female, we are

1640
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 2: all connected for good. We got to kick these clowns out.

1641
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 2: And if Justin Bieber had a tough time and need

1642
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 2: some backup, we have your back, Justin Bieber, and we

1643
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 2: love it. It's true, but we.

1644
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 6: Should say though too, it's also possible that you know,

1645
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,839
Speaker 6: they have obviously a very close relationship, especially since Usher

1646
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 6: at one point have custody of him.

1647
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 2: Right, it's been a long time. They have a very

1648
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 2: twenty years years past it's not. No, it's not the

1649
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: case that relationship is severed. It has been heated for

1650
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 2: a very long time. This I know fact from source

1651
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 2: of clothes, and that relationship doesn't exist any longer. And

1652
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:41,280
Speaker 2: remember he broke up with Scooter Braun who that is

1653
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 2: a big wine in the sand. And I don't know,

1654
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:47,840
Speaker 2: I just feel again I'm projecting this. This is not fact. No,

1655
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 2: this little nugget was such a little star, and like,

1656
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:54,799
Speaker 2: can you imagine getting into that circle? Did he circle?

1657
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 2: I couldn't have handled that as a young adult. I

1658
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 2: could at a legal drinking age, I would and have

1659
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,759
Speaker 2: been able to handle it. Can you imagine being fourteen

1660
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 2: years old?

1661
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 4: And also foreigner because he's Canadian?

1662
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Okay, we're not setting words in Baber's mouth.

1663
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

1664
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 2: It sounds like Baber one and I just hope it's

1665
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 2: like again, it all speaks to this, like we're all

1666
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 2: getting it all out so we can just like we

1667
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 2: mind everybody. No, no, no, that's not how the world works. Yeah,

1668
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 2: we're not pedophiles, and this is not a world that

1669
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 2: should be run by them, and the banks don't run

1670
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 2: the world. And money, although it talks, isn't everything. Wow,

1671
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 2: that's it. Oh my gosh, that's it. Oh my goodness,

1672
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:42,800
Speaker 2: this is the goodbye music. Thank you for the calls.

1673
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 2: We have more talkbacks to get to. We'll get to

1674
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 2: those tomorrow. Then, we promise. Thank you so much for

1675
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:49,680
Speaker 2: spending your Sunday night with us. We hope you have

1676
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 2: an amazing start to your week. Tomorrow, go get the Monday.

1677
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:56,479
Speaker 2: We'll be back here tomorrow night, of course, and we're

1678
01:33:56,520 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 2: talking about the UFO, the man who went missing. Oh yeah,

1679
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 2: more on that tomorrow. Stay safe out there,