1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: Welcome to It Happened Here, a podcast that played some 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: role in the defeats of the Republicans reposed ban on 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: using Medicaid to pay for trans healthcare. I am your host, 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Mia Wong, and with me are three of the people 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: who helped make this whole thing possible. This is David Forbes, 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: a journalist from the Ashual Blade and Medica's News. Mattie 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 2: Castigan of the namesake Medicast News, and Mira Laisine of 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: Free Radical and also Medicast News, and all of you 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: welcome to the show. Congratulations on your defeats of the 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: Republican Party and helping to save trans healthcare for unbelievably 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: large numbers of people in this country. 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like a sentence that's kind 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: of hard to accept, and you know, in a lot 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 3: of ways, it is really what we've been trying to say. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 3: It's been like a collective effort of everyone involved, especially 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: the people at the grassroots, and you know, like I 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 3: guess to give there's a little bit of context. So 19 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: going back to May, there in the big beautiful bill 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 3: that unfortunately did pass, originally Republicans included a ban on 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 3: government funding for Medicaid for gender transition procedures, and originally 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: just from miners in the House. Then right before they 23 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: passed it through the House, they actually removed the miners claw, 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: so it was applying for all adults on Medicaid who 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: are trans. At this point, everyone started kind of freaking out, 26 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 3: which is very reasonable because you know, there's over two 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: hundred thousand trans people on Medicaid depending on numbers like 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 3: hundred and seventy thousand depending on her us. And so 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 3: what we found is that, you know, a lot of 30 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: other sources have told us this that the bird rule, 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 3: which is basically you know, parliamentary procedure in the Senate 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: that only exists in the Senate because of the filibuster 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: pretty much, is one way that we could kill this 34 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: is what they told us back in May. And so 35 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: that's something that we reported on and tried to take 36 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: like you know, basically like a don't panic angle or 37 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: don't panic yet at least you know like that there's 38 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 3: a lot of ways to fight back against this, and 39 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: we provided you know, templates for here's how you can 40 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 3: email your senators and this is exactly what you should 41 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: tell them. You should call them you could call specific 42 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 3: people on specific committees and tell specific things to them. 43 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: And you know, of course a lot of other organizations 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: and people also chipped into this, you know, a for 45 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 3: t te head of campaigns and whatnot. But I think 46 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day, what really 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: pushed the needle was the people calling in and waking 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: Democrats up to this issue. And basically what ended up 49 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: happening is we both sent it. Widen basically argued to 50 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: the parliamentarian that hey, this trans medicaid ban, it's not 51 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 3: a budgetary matter, it's actually a policy matter. And the 52 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: parliamentarian agreed and ruled that it was basically a sixty 53 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: vote threshold and not a fifty vote threshold. So what 54 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: that meant is that as long as all Democrats, or 55 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: at least forty Democrats forty one Democrats were opposing this measure, 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: it was basically guaranteed to be kicked out of the bill. 57 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 3: And we did end up having enough Democrats basically ensure 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: that the that provision didn't make it into law, even 59 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: though unfortunately the bill did pass in to day. 60 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think one thing that's notable about this. I 61 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 4: think one thing to emerge in our discussions, and while 62 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 4: she's not in the podcast, I really want to thank 63 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 4: Koreean Green for very invaluable like policy insight into some 64 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 4: of this and some of the specific ways and weaknesses 65 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 4: to go after politicians on this. And you know, certainly 66 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 4: we were not alone in this. I think there were 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 4: a lot of grassroots organizations as well, and I think 68 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 4: kind of the approach that emerged and was successful, I 69 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 4: think it's kind of important how it happened, because one, 70 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 4: it identified a specific weakness who weren't just vaguely asking 71 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 4: legislators to do something about this. And two I think 72 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 4: it did something which traditionally definitely democratic politicians but even 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 4: a lot of the gay ink to use a term 74 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,119 Speaker 4: popular among a lot of transactivists like big lobbying groups 75 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 4: and establishment nonprofits, been loath to do, which is it 76 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 4: got angry at democrats. It warned them that people were watching. 77 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 4: It wasn't like, pretty please, you know, will you do 78 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 4: something to stop this? And from two decades dealing with politicians, 79 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 4: that's a much more effective way to approach. If you're 80 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: just going to ask nicely, they'll ignore you. They'll ignore 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 4: your entire demographic. If you're marginalized if they're afraid of you. However, 82 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 4: if they're worried about their phone lines being shut down 83 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 4: with pushback, people are getting angry at them, then they 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 4: get worried and feel like they need to do something. 85 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 4: So I think both with our article and with some 86 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 4: of the other grassroots groups involved, it really kind of 87 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 4: put the focus back on what people can do. But 88 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 4: it did it by identifying a weakness and then pressing 89 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 4: really hard on it. And I think that's kind of 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 4: a break with how some of the very unsuccessful higher 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 4: level tactics that have been used or not been used 92 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 4: against transphobic legislation before. 93 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I think it's important to, you know, 94 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: look at the changing terrain of this all because a 95 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: lot of the sort of gain lobbying efforts were based 96 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: on conditions that don't exist anymore. And you could argue 97 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: how effective they were back in like you know, like 98 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, right, and I still think there were more 99 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: effective things that could have been done. Then there is 100 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 2: no argument now like you can't just rely on sort 101 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: of like access democratic politicians and being like, oh hey, 102 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: we're this org. You want this thing to happen. And 103 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: we saw this a lot. This is something that our 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: policy analyst friend Karine Green, who have had in the 105 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: show before, was talking about with like with the Biden 106 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 2: administration was the way that all of these orgs sort 107 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: of just fell in line behind the Biden administration, like 108 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: fucking over trans people's healthcare in ways that no one 109 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: ever really talked about, and that kind of access model 110 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: got flipped, you know, whatever they were trying to do before, 111 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: and you can ar you know, you can have arguments 112 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: about like what they thought they were doing. At this point, 113 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: it's just like no, like you're not existing to like 114 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: protect queer people. You're existing to protect the Democrats from 115 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: queer people. 116 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 5: And yeah, you. 117 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: Know, and and and the situation we're in now is 118 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: one where and there was some very very scary reporting 119 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: coming out of the Democrats were like it wasn't clear 120 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 2: if they were actually going to try to whip the 121 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: votes together, like to actually vote against this stuff. And 122 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: so like we're at a point where regardless of whatever 123 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: you would have supported before, and again like I think 124 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: I think they were wrong before, but like now no, 125 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: you had this is the only way to do this shit, 126 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: Like there's no other mechanism. 127 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, so this has been something I've especially noticed in 128 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 5: like reporting on this terms. Myself and Matty, we both 129 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 5: co reported on the initial story breaking the the fact 130 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 5: that the Medicaid bandage going in there. Mattie especially did 131 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 5: all the stuff with the birds role. When we initially 132 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 5: started working in the story, it was just a small 133 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 5: tip we had that there was going to be something 134 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: big coming in the next funding bill, and I can 135 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 5: definitely speak that at the time, Democrats, lobbyists and so forth, 136 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 5: they were just very like business as usual, right, They 137 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 5: were just even knowing that a lot of this was 138 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 5: kind of had the chance of emerging, and that there 139 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 5: was going to be a lot of bad stuff emerging. 140 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 5: A lot of it was still like trying to use 141 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 5: these whole tactics Streme way back when to just act 142 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 5: like everything is still as if it's you know, twenty fifteen, 143 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 5: twenty fourteen, and once everything started to unferral and the 144 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 5: medicaidvand became added in to the bill itself. Witnessing it 145 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 5: all from just a reporting perspective with like it felt 146 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 5: like watching them all go into panic mode and yet 147 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,119 Speaker 5: at the same time be like trying to find ways 148 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 5: to kind of push us to the side. Yeah, and 149 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 5: and of course, like god so incredibly thankfully were able 150 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 5: to play any type of role in getting this done. 151 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 5: Like so it's becomon narrative among so many for lack 152 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 5: of better phrasing, proponents of gay ink, proponents of the 153 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 5: status quo, proponents of just you know, your social democracy types, 154 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 5: that the way forward is to be nice, to beg 155 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 5: and plead for our rights, so hopefull they give us 156 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 5: it if we ask really, really nicely and we beg 157 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 5: in clead and we say thank you and we don't 158 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 5: be too rude or else we'll earn it and we'll 159 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 5: deserve what a will give. You know, It's like what 160 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 5: ultimate need became. The final stroll was like we sent 161 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 5: out a push for every single just reader follower, every 162 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 5: single listener podcast like everyone at home who just bread 163 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 5: this around. Put pressure on the politicians, made it clear 164 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 5: the wasn't acceptable, made it clear that no, they can't 165 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 5: just ignore us and act like we don't exist, and 166 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 5: that no, they can't just wash their hands away and 167 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 5: pretend like this is all fine, and that their records 168 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 5: came that No, it's this is something that matters. This 169 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 5: is something that has to be thought, and it really 170 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 5: boiled down to just the endtense like pressure everyone put 171 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 5: publicly like yeah, And I think it is just a 172 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 5: very ultimate testing to how the true power in any 173 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 5: political system lies not with just a handful of elected 174 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 5: NEPO babies that end up getting into office, but with 175 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 5: the regular people who make their voice heard, who band 176 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 5: together and aren't afraid to say, hey, this shit is 177 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 5: fucked up, we need to do something about it. 178 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 4: You are mentioning, how like whatever debate about the gag 179 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 4: approach before, it's it's not just dead now it's catastrophically failed. 180 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 4: I honestly think that's kind of beyond debate at this point. 181 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 4: But what one thing that I think kind of this 182 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 4: shows is that when you're dealing with politicians, if all 183 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 4: you have is hey, pretty please be nice to us, 184 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: but earlier you not just can you be ignored, but 185 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 4: like if they go no, what else do you have then? 186 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 4: If you don't have some other kind of leverage? And 187 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 4: one thing I've seen consistently local, state, and federal levels 188 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: is the odds are a lot better if people are 189 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 4: angry and the politicians are afraid. So I think living 190 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 4: that that's the real vantage the grassroots have, you know, 191 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 4: stop caring about if politicians are your friends or really 192 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 4: care about us, because generally the answer is they don't. 193 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 4: None of them are our friends, and more focus on 194 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 4: what can you and your communities, your friends, the larger 195 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: networks you're part of, do to make their lives miserable 196 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 4: until the part of the sascore you're trying to fight 197 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 4: becomes unsustainable for them too. 198 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 3: What I heard from people on the hill or people 199 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 3: close to people on the Hill is basically that the 200 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: whole bird rule maneuver. For this specific provision, there was 201 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 3: you know, definitely whispers of it, you know, especially among 202 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: Lompias and maybe some staffers. But until it was being 203 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: publicly advocated for this specific tool to be used by 204 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: constituents towards senators Democratic senators specifically, it wasn't really like 205 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: hugely in consideration or like that wasn't something they were 206 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 3: planning to do in a very strong way, Like maybe 207 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 3: it would have happened eventually, But it definitely does seem 208 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: like the constituent pressure specifically did help kind of make 209 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 3: Democrats realize that hey, we're watching, you're watching you do 210 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: like whether you're invoking these parliamentary procedures that you aren't 211 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: supposed to know about. Like you're not supposed to know 212 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: about this stuff, right, And it's like it's really obscure 213 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,359 Speaker 3: stuff that no one knows about except like super autistic 214 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: paulicy Neer. It's like like me and a current probably, 215 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 3: but yeah, and this kind of stuff is really what 216 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 3: turns the needles. And like you can look at the 217 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: other side too, right, Like, you know, there are extremely 218 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: effective lobbies in Congress you can look at you can 219 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 3: look at the lobby that literally got this provision into 220 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 3: the bill. They sent a letter to Speaker Johnson saying, hey, 221 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: you should expand this from miners only to adults because 222 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 3: we think this will actually help it survive the bird 223 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: rule better. And this was a public letter, right, And 224 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: you know you might say, oh, well, that's not a 225 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 3: big deal, right, it's a letter. Right, But how many 226 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 3: gay rights organizations released a letter to Democrats saying they 227 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 3: should invoke the bird rule. I'm not aware of any, like. 228 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 4: Well, I think that's the key part of this is that, yes, eventually, 229 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 4: some of those groups did start belatedly moving against this. Yes, 230 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 4: eventually it's progi into a second some politicians did in 231 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 4: various ways start moving against this. But I think it's 232 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: important not to get kind of the cart before the horse. 233 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 4: That came after the grassroots pressure, came after weeks of 234 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: people getting angry at them, blowing up their phones, very 235 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 4: public criticism, all the things that I think we're told 236 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 4: a lot of the time by liberals and Democrats we're 237 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: not supposed to do, you know, be nice or you know, 238 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 4: your concerns won't be heard. Well, it turns out is 239 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 4: that the Isaac alas is the case. And you mentioned 240 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 4: that those conservative lobbyists people know, you know, I don't 241 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 4: think it's always a rule that the tactics or enemy 242 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 4: can be adopted for various reasons. But the NRA and 243 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 4: all of these terrible groups don't go into Congress going, hey, 244 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 4: please be nice to us. They go in going do 245 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 4: this or we're going to make your life hell yeah. 246 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 4: And if you're if this is a terrain people are 247 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 4: going to fight on, that's how you have to fight 248 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 4: as far as because that's what moves politicians at every 249 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 4: level is it's oh my god, I do not want 250 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 4: this group angry at me. 251 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 5: And it's one thing I want to add to is 252 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 5: since the bird rules and soil in the band was 253 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 5: taken out. There has emerged a common narrative online. It's 254 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 5: not really one specific person doing this, it's just kind 255 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 5: of something that's kind of collectively emerged in that claiming 256 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 5: that the credit lies with politicians, with lobbyists, with staffers, 257 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 5: with all these anonymous people behind closed doors who are 258 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 5: supposedly the ones that actually did the work, and no 259 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 5: one else matters. I want to strongly emphasize that that 260 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 5: is not only not true, but dangerous rhetoric. 261 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 4: It's propaganda. 262 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 5: It's propaganda. Yes, it's an attempt to reinforce the role 263 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 5: that the state has in subjugating everyone, to reinforce the 264 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 5: fact that, oh no, the way things are is perfect. 265 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 5: You can trust all these leaders to protect you when 266 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 5: you can't. They are the reason we got in this mess. 267 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 5: The gay en tactics are the things that have failed 268 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 5: and led to this in the first place. Liberals have 269 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 5: plenty of opportunities prevent this and they didn't. And ultimately, 270 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 5: the reason that this narrative spreads is because, at the 271 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 5: end of the day, gay yank is called back for 272 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 5: a reason because well, yes, their interests happen to align 273 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 5: on the realm of queer rights because they themselves are queer. 274 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 5: At the end of the day, they are still representing 275 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 5: the upper class, and their primary interests are still going 276 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 5: to be with protecting the upper class and protecting the 277 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 5: role they have in subjugating the lower class and subjugating 278 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 5: marginalized people who are not in their economic class. 279 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is most trans people, like all of us. 280 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is. 281 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: Like really important because I don't think the intersections of 282 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 4: queerness and definitely not transists in class get talked about 283 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: nearly enough. Yeah, which is is that queer and transy 284 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 4: are overwhelmingly working class demographics. Yep, like the legislators you know, 285 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 4: like Sara McBride, but also like the people running gang 286 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 4: crimanizations are not just like not generally representative of our 287 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 4: wider communities in a lot of ways. They also just 288 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 4: have had incredibly different lives almost always, with some exceptions, 289 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 4: they've been part of the gentry their entire lives, and 290 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: most queer trans people, especially trans people, are as far 291 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 4: from the gentry as you get. So that does create 292 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 4: like this massive gulf. But also I think it's one 293 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,359 Speaker 4: reason these groups are so out of touch. But also 294 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 4: I think it does. You know, if we put the 295 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 4: power back on ourselves, if we realize that this kind 296 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 4: of grassroots anger is much more representative of where queer 297 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 4: and trans people are, If this willingness to fight directly 298 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: in whatever tactics people choose is much more like in 299 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 4: keeping with like queer culture and tradition and history, then 300 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of power there. And I 301 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 4: think this is an example of successfully wielding that. I 302 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 4: think Mirror was correct about this propaganda that's kind of 303 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 4: been spreading in the wake, and it was particularly I 304 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: think egregious because it specifically like tried to credit Sarah McBride, 305 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 4: who had just come off a really obnoxious interview with 306 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 4: The New York Times where she was literally against all 307 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 4: the aggressive trans rights, and then after the band finally 308 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: got killed, this you know, various sources and honestly, I 309 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 4: don't know anyone hearing this stuff, and whatever capacities the 310 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 4: journalist act is, whatever, I think it's just professionally good 311 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 4: to be more skeptical when these kind of convenient narratives emerge. 312 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 4: But kind of embers, Oh, behind the scenes, she'd been 313 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: doing so much. Yeah, sure, in public, she'd been you know, 314 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 4: very either low key or refusing defend trains rights at all, 315 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 4: even justifying some of the narratives of our enemies. But 316 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 4: sure she was doing all this behind the scenes. 317 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: She refused to fucking do anything when they banned trans 318 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: people from fucking bathrooms in DC. 319 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 5: Yes, like in Capitol him, wouldn't even defend her own staffers, Yes, exactly. 320 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: So like it's worth being skeptical to claim that she 321 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 4: was doing so much behind the scenes. However, you know 322 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 4: if she was prompted in the last week of a 323 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 4: multi week effort to suddenly start taking some action based 324 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 4: on anger. Great part of the point of these strategies 325 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 4: is to prompt people who don't want to act into 326 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 4: feeling like they're forced to act. But I think in 327 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 4: twenty years of covering politics at various levels, if politicians 328 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 4: don't like something, you will know. If they support something, 329 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 4: you will know they will be very loud and very public, 330 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 4: because the public platform is one of the biggest powers 331 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 4: they have, as well as doing whatever behind the scenes. 332 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: If they're quiet about something or even seem opposite to 333 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 4: especially if it involves a group on the front lines 334 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 4: like trans communities, and then later on they try to 335 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 4: kind of take back credit of saying, oh, look, you know, 336 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 4: we were doing so much behind the scenes that is 337 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 4: pretty universally attacked to commit to demobilize people. 338 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to note that the point of 339 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: us saying this is not to say that you know, 340 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 3: Sarah McBride or you know Saffers or other people didn't 341 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: do anything. Like, of course they did stuff right like, 342 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 3: they voted, they were voting. Note, they probably made some 343 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: phone calls and stuff, right, But what we're saying is like, Okay, 344 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: they basically did the bare minimum of what they're supposed 345 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: to do, right like, and that was only after a 346 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: huge pressure campaign from the grassroots and from people who 347 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: they would literally not be even in office without. Like 348 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: I did the math in an article way back in 349 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 3: that last November, and there's like exit polls showing that 350 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 3: like eighty six percent of LGBTQ people voted for Democrats 351 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 3: last year. That's like a crazy margin. That's like it's 352 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: up there with you know, black voters and LGBTQ people 353 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: are like the biggest bass of the Democratic Party, right Like, 354 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 3: they would have lost three or four more Senate seats 355 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 3: they it would have been like a fifty six or 356 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: fifty seven seat chamber if it were not for literally 357 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 3: the people that are advocating for this healthcare. And it's 358 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: it's so absurd that, like Sarah McBride, what she did was, 359 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: if we assume everything that's been said is true about 360 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 3: this is what she's done is basically she got Democrats 361 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 3: to not vote to take away the healthcare of two 362 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: hundred thousand trans people, which is like, why was that 363 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 3: even a qu question like this? This is the actual 364 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: story that came out of this. In my opinion that 365 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: was bigger is that this was ever in question that 366 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 3: there might be like seven or eight Democrats who would 367 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: vote to ban Medicaid from two hundred three hundred thousand 368 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: trans people, like and the fact that we're supposed to 369 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 3: like give them a huge applause for not doing that 370 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 3: is is kind of obscene to me. 371 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the readiness to thank politicians kind of 372 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 4: cuts against the grassroots anger and organizing that works. 373 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 2: So well here. 374 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 4: Yep, because you don't want them. Actually, I think it's 375 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: cerally a good rule not to thank politicians because what 376 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 4: you want to constantly keep them in. If that's the 377 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 4: terrain you're going to fight on is they need to 378 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 4: feel like they're on thin ice. They need to worry 379 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 4: their staff needs to worry about Okay, we got to 380 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 4: keep this out of the bill, because holy hell, you 381 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 4: do not want those queers mad at you. That's where 382 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: you want to get closer to if putting pressure on 383 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 4: politicians is is what needs to happen, And so buying 384 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 4: these narratives thanking them, that takes the pressure off. 385 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 5: Don't ever do that, you know, yes, and. 386 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 4: So I think it's it's kind of important. And you know, 387 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: to quote the internet masterpiece of old drill tweet like 388 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 4: you do underneath circumstances. 389 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 5: Have to hand it to them. 390 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 4: At best, they acted late, grudgingly after they faced a 391 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 4: ton of anger that resulted and was help amplified by 392 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 4: a ton of work from bluntly like working class trans 393 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 4: people and working class for your people. 394 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would argue that what Representative McBride did specifically, 395 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 3: even assuming that it did like help us in the 396 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 3: short term with this bill, the way that she's been 397 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: kind of talking about this internally and in the New 398 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 3: York Times interview is actually extremely dangerous for trans people because, 399 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: like believe it or not, they're not going to stop 400 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 3: with this bill. They're going to do it again. They're 401 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: going to do it again, probably in budget bills or 402 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 3: another reconciliation bill. And at some point it's going to 403 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: come down to the wire where Democrats will have to 404 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: publicly defend the right of trans people to have healthcare 405 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 3: and to be alive and to exist. That's that's going 406 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 3: to happen at some point. And what McBride has been 407 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: telling everyone, what she's been telling as her client on 408 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 3: New York Times, what she was telling Democrats behind the scenes, 409 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: according to the notice article, is that you can't talk 410 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: about these issues. You have to be really quiet. You 411 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: just have to do it behind the scenes because it's 412 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 3: too hot topic of an issue. You know, you don't 413 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 3: want to accidentally, like I don't know, show the world 414 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 3: that trans people might actually deserve to exist. It doesn't 415 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 3: it doesn't even make sense. I think they just it doesn't. 416 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: They just like feel gross arguing it, like personally like 417 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: they don't there's no political like, there's no like good 418 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 3: political calcitalists. They just feel gross talking about trans people. 419 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: Is my opinion that this is why they don't want 420 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 3: to do it. There's it's like it's bad for them politically. 421 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: They will lose votes, they will like lose political power. 422 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 3: They just like hate us. Basically, I don't know. 423 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 5: We should never be nice or kind or thank politicians 424 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 5: like both Maddie and David had said they are not 425 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 5: our friends. Like there is a popular approach that I 426 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 5: think a lot of people end up having towards these 427 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 5: kind of quote unquote leaders that they are somehow these 428 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 5: like mythical faviors of everyone, that they're all leading these nonprofits, 429 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 5: they're leading these companies, these governments save us. They are 430 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 5: not our friends. They do not give a shit about us. 431 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 5: You would be surprised to things I've heard behind closed 432 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 5: doors that they have said they are not your friends. 433 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 5: They hate every single fucking poor person. They will never 434 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 5: say that bocally, but they. 435 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 4: Hate us, especially the transplants. 436 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And it's like us to be 437 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 5: subservient to them until the day we fucking die, because 438 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 5: it's all about consolidating their own power. And the kind 439 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 5: of corn I'm getting at here is kill the idol 440 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 5: in your head. You should never have an idol, Like, 441 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 5: there is no person worth idolizing, not only not Dayank, 442 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 5: not even only not anyone in this call, this podcast. Now, 443 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 5: no one at all should be idolized, because doing that 444 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 5: is placing all the power in the hands of people 445 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 5: you don't know, in the hands of people who are 446 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 5: just as human as anyone else. And even if they're 447 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 5: very good, people who do good things are fundamentally capable 448 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 5: of fucking up and doing bad. And if you idolize someone, 449 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 5: you end up condoning everything they do, whether you even 450 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 5: stay it or otherwise. It comes with the territory. Fundamentally, 451 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 5: you should not rely on other people to save you. 452 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 5: You should rely on you and your community. You need 453 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 5: to fucking work with your community to bring about the 454 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 5: outcomes you want. And I mean you, the listener, like 455 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 5: you specifically, Yes, you need to work with your community 456 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 5: to bring about what you need. 457 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: I think that's that's kind of the message that should 458 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 4: emerge from this is no one in Washington, organization and 459 00:24:58,600 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 4: politician are the ones of the power here. 460 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 5: You are. 461 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 4: You and your friends are you and your community are 462 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 4: And I know we've said that a little bit before, 463 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 4: but it's worth re emphasizing how much people can do 464 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 4: when they get together and decide to do something about 465 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 4: these issues. 466 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's a really good note to 467 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: end on. However, come up before we do that very 468 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: exciting news. Do you all want to introduce introduce the 469 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 2: new news network. 470 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 3: Hell yeah, we have huge news to announce that's related 471 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 3: to the news website that we used to write this 472 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 3: article about the bird Roll, formerly known as Maddicast News 473 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: will now be known as trans News Network. And we're 474 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 3: basically relaunching completely. We're switching up our business models from 475 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: technically was a for profit before, but now it's going 476 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 3: to be part of fiscally sponsored nonprofit of community Partners. 477 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 3: And we're also moving off subset to beehive. And so, 478 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: you know, as Mirat and David were saying earlier, like 479 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: we don't want you to rely on us to stay 480 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: you like it's kind of like a team effort, right, Like, 481 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: we do have a part to play. Will help will 482 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: help you give you information, but we also could use 483 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: help from you. We could use help from the listener, 484 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: especially people who do have you know, some people have 485 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 3: more time, some people have more resources or money. And 486 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 3: one thing that we are looking to do with our 487 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: relaunch is to fundraise so we can basically, you know, 488 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 3: ensure that basically our journalists, like you know, Mirah and 489 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 3: David have the financial stability they need to continue making 490 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 3: journalism like this. And so we're launching with a fundraiser 491 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 3: and we're gonna we'll have a link, I guess with 492 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: the podcast description and there will be like you know, 493 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: you can get a free gift if you donate a 494 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 3: certain amount. That's a huge way to help. But as well, 495 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 3: you know, you also need to actually listen to the 496 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 3: things that people in your community to say, like what 497 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 3: are the things people in your community are saying that 498 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 3: can help? What are other ways that you can contribute 499 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 3: back to save yourselves, basically because we're all in this together. 500 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 4: And yeah, I think also one of the reasons I'm 501 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 4: really excited about the trans News Network and the transition 502 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 4: as it were, to the trans News Net it is 503 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 4: that I think our collective experiences and our experience with 504 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 4: this fight as well, have shown that there is a 505 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 4: real need for hard hitting, powerful, unrepentantly radical and trans journalism, 506 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 4: trans journalism that actually gets trans communities and proceeds kind 507 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 4: of to take the fight from there. And so that's 508 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 4: that is badly needed. And I think we are from 509 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 4: our own experiences and from kind of what we've all 510 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 4: built working together, like able to be part of that. 511 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, and just to add one thing, because I know 512 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 5: how many trans people artistic and need to hear this 513 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 5: about out. I'm one of them. This is explosively a 514 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 5: worker's co op. We are doing this radical from the 515 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 5: ground up. Everyone gets eqal say this is a community thing. 516 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 5: This is not some light Oh you know, we're doing this. 517 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 5: But then there's a nice CEO who makes five hundred K. No, 518 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 5: this is the money is going to the journalists who 519 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 5: need it. Is the group of us basically deciding, hey, 520 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 5: we need to fucking keep doing this work. We want to, 521 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 5: we need to support, we need help. Yeah, and we're 522 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 5: joining the bandwagon of all these news outlets doing workers 523 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 5: co ops because that's the only way you can fucking 524 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 5: make money in this industry nowadays. 525 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 4: It's also the fairest and best way to do it. 526 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 5: Yep. It is. It's it's objectively the best and most 527 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 5: ethical way to do this under the healthscape of capitalism. Yep. 528 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 3: And uh Tamira's plan and I'm gonna we went on 529 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: this podcast earlier this year to talk about trans journalism 530 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 3: and you might want to listen to that as well 531 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: if you're curious on like just the struggles that a 532 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 3: lot of us have dealt with. And number one is, 533 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: you know, the material need for money basically, and I'm 534 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 3: going to say what I said in that episode again, 535 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 3: which is that one hundred dollars for some people, like 536 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 3: you know, let's say a working class transferson is very 537 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: different compared to one hundred dollars for people in other 538 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: social classes. You know, maybe someone in tech or something like, 539 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: maybe you'll get a dinner at the one hundred dollars 540 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 3: and it's not a big deal to you, right, it 541 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: could be life changing for someone else who's literally like 542 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: spending their life creating news to help trans people like 543 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: you know, this article that we wrote, it wasn't a 544 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 3: huge amount of money that that took to create that. 545 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 3: But at the same time, we don't have a lot 546 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 3: of money to go around, like it's it's being basically 547 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 3: a small number of people. We have a we have 548 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 3: a good number of like paid subscribers to but really 549 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 3: in order to keep expanding the way we want to, 550 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: we really need more money. And it's going to be 551 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: so huge to trans people everywhere. 552 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: So yeah, so if someone has money and it's interested 553 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 4: in supporting trans journalism. That is all the things we've 554 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 4: just talked about and I think makes a real difference. Yeah, 555 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 4: please sign up as a paid subscriber. Donate to the fundraiser. 556 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 4: Every single dollar of that we will put to use. 557 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 5: Yeap. 558 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: Our first goal is basically to hire one of our 559 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: journalists as a part time W two employee, which should 560 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: be literally life changing. 561 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, And when we said this in the 562 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 2: last episode, and we're going to say it again, working 563 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: class trans journalism can exist if you support it. And 564 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: every single dollar that you sent to a working class 565 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 2: trans journalist is going one hundred times further that it's 566 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: going for any other thing you can do to, like, like, 567 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 2: it's going so much further that it is giving it 568 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: to like fucking the Human Rights Committee or whatever the fuck, 569 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: Like wait, what is what's the actual name with the 570 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 2: organ human Rights Campampa? Yeah, yeah, you resume that one. 571 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah. 572 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 3: Well, by the way, did I mention it's tax seductible, So. 573 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 4: Got to throw that in there. 574 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: If you item measure deductions, if you give like one 575 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 3: hundred dollars to us, then you get to pay like, 576 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 3: you know, whatever like thirty dollars less goes to the 577 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 3: federal government, which means slightly less money for Ice and Israel. 578 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: That's how I see it anyway. 579 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 5: Okay, please, Dear God, I'm tired of living off my 580 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 5: measly savings. 581 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 3: Dear God, please, Yeah, you can tell her really trying 582 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 3: to sell this well. 583 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 4: And also I think like Yo Mirror and myself both 584 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 4: do other trans journalism work. I'm part of the editor 585 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 4: at the Ashville Blade, which is a local trans journalist 586 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 4: co op. And you know, we've seen how far that goes, 587 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: so so yeah, like the more support for trans journalism, period, 588 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 4: trans News Network, the Free Radical Asheville Blade, some of 589 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 4: the other projects out there, the better. 590 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 5: Yep. 591 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 2: And this has been It could Happen here, support support 592 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 2: trans journalism, and we keep fighting the good fight. 593 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 594 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 595 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 596 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 597 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It could Happen here 598 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.