1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: So much stickier than most people talk about. They're just like, oh, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: the social media, and I'm like, oh my god, not 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: that easy. It's not that simple. 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: There are no girls on the Internet. As a production 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridgie Todd, and this 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: is there are no girls on the Internet. I don't 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: think I have to tell you that social media and 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 2: the Internet has changed the way our relationships work and 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: in turn, the way we feel about those relationships. Now, 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: if you've ever been scrolling through social media feeling like 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: everyone you know is out at brunch are going on 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: a beautiful wine tour with their close knit group of 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: girlfriends while you're home alone again, then you know exactly 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: what I mean. But it's more than that too. The 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: rising cost of everything can leave us feeling like we 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: spend all of our time working, so that when we're 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: not working, rather than spending time with friends, we just 18 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: want to be recovering from all that work. Not to 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: mention the pandemic, When COVID happened, I kind of felt 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: like I forgot how to make friends. Everything that's got 21 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: so much harder, and on top of it, we're all exhausted, 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: so yes, it's social media, but it's also everything. This 23 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: is Lane Moore's domain. Laine is a comedian and author 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: whose work examines how people's relationships are shaped by the Internet. 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 2: Her hit show Tinder Live recreates the chaos and calamity 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: of swiping on a dating app irl in front of 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: a live audience. Her book How to Be Alone is 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: a bestseller, and her new book, You Will Find Your 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: People examines the role meaningful relationships play in our lives. 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: Because even though we're often told to build our whole 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: selves and whole lives around romantic partnerships, what if you 32 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: treated friendships as the center of our lives too? So, Lene, 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: I have to sort of start by just generally where 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: the work began for you. You make live comedy and art, 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: and you write about things like connection, particularly online. How 36 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: did this come to be? How did you come to 37 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: be someone who thought critically about how we are for 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: being relationships? 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know what they often say is true, which 40 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: is that you know, there's that phrase. I don't know 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: if you've heard it, but it's like the the healers 42 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: wound is often their gift, and I feel like that's 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: where it comes from. You know, there's no other way 44 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: to sugarcoat it. It's not just like I always that 45 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: connection was interesting. My relationships were always really easy and great. 46 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: I never struggled. Ever. No, I was interested in it 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: because you know, I had a really rough time growing up. 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I was on my own for almost my entire life, 49 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: and so you know, I really longed for that sense 50 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: of community and connection and this like sense of family 51 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: and friendships and all these things that I was seeing 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: on TV that I didn't necessarily feel in my life. 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: And I felt so alone through most of my life 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, I'm seeing on TV and 55 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: in media and all these things. Everyone has the best 56 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: family ever, everyone has the best friends ever, and you know, 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: everybody has the best romantic partners. Of course I wasn't 58 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: thinking about that maybe at six, but still, you know, 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing everybody has it but you And you know, 60 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: I looked at it, fortunately from a place of curiosity 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: as a kid, even where I was just like, hmm, 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: how do other people's families work, How do marriages work? 63 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: How do other people's friendships work. I just part of it, 64 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: I think, was interested in just interested in how people connect, 65 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: how they or they don't and you know, just wanting 66 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: that very deeply. Also, I'm sure that's where that curiosity 67 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: came from. So now, I so much of this work 68 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: that I do is because now that I'm an adult, 69 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: and now that I've written several books and comedy shows 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: and all these things, I know, oh, I'm not the 71 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: only one who has struggled like this and who has 72 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: felt like nobody gets this and might just must just 73 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: be me struggle with that kind of shame that Oh, 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: if I'm the only one struggling with this, I'm bad. 75 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: I'm unworthy all this stuff we do to ourselves that 76 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: I've done to myself. Uh So, yeah, it really came 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: from some real shit, so truly. 78 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw a picture on your Instagram that was 79 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: like the balloons and it spelled out, You've got a 80 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 2: funny personality. Thanks, it's all the trauma. Yeah, I think 81 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: that's that's so spot on. So when you were young, 82 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: maybe you felt like you didn't have the family connections 83 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: that you saw on TV. You know, as you got older, 84 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: did you feel the same thing about kind of the 85 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: friendship connections and the romantic connections that you were seeing 86 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: kind of all around you that didn't match what you 87 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: actually felt like you had in your life. 88 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: Absolutely for so long, I was just like and I 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: wanted it so deeply. I was such a anesthetic, open 90 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: person who just wanted these deep connections so much. So, 91 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, it was very strange for me, and especially too. 92 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I realized as 93 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: well when I would go to school and I'd be like, oh, well, 94 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna like make my chosen family here. Yeah, I've 95 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: heard that's real. And then you go there and you're like, 96 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: oh no, everybody kind of needs you to act a 97 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: certain way. There's all these unspoken ways that you're supposed 98 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: to be a person. And I always felt like I 99 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: was too too much. I was feeling like I was 100 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: a little too much. I felt things very deeply, and 101 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: I was very sensitive and very expressive. And uh, those 102 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: people are not usually super popular at that age. That's 103 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: not you know, you're supposed to be kind of cool 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: and aloof and you know, never struggle with mental health. 105 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: Stuff like that is not an age to be different 106 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: or way too mature for your age. None of that 107 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: stuff is appreciated. 108 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I often think about how much time in my 109 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: life I spent pretending to be like really chill or 110 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: to even not have feelings, you know, both in my 111 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: relationships with family and friends and then especially in romantic 112 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: relationships when you're like in your twenties. I don't know 113 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 2: who out there is telling women like what men want 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 2: is someone who is super aloof doesn't make attachments, is chill, 115 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: and that's what you need to be, even if everything 116 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: inside of you is screaming that how you're not chilled, 117 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: and how you do want attachments, and how you do 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: care a lot about this and so you want to 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: you have expectations, you have needs. Heaven forbid you be 120 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: a twenty year old woman looking for a man and 121 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: have needs that you have articulated. It's like the worst, 122 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 2: Like you may as well climb into a graven die. 123 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: Yes no, and it's it's so so. I talk about 124 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: this in my first book was called How to Be 125 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: Alone If you want To and even if you don't, 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: and explored so much of this, And there's a whole 127 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: chapter where I literally go on a rant that is 128 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: exactly in line with everything you're saying, because it is 129 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: so correct. And the thing that I talk about is 130 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: how ridiculous that is for multiple reasons. One, because we 131 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: should be allowed to be the totality of ourselves and 132 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: be lovable. That's ridiculous, and we're tolding that we're told 133 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: that that's true, but also be smaller, be less, be 134 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: less of you. But the other thing that's so crazy 135 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: to me when I was writing that that rant with 136 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: just as much justified passion, is I realized that we're 137 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: showing women and people all these TV shows and movies 138 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: where they're like swept away on this like romantic, super 139 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: over the top, you know, vacations and flowers and courting, 140 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: and yet we get to adulthood and so many men 141 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: are just like what, I'm not gonna do that stuff. 142 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: You're gonna come to my roof and you're gonna eat 143 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: an old burrito and you're gonna love it. And if 144 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: you don't, I'm going to break up with you. Like what? No, Yeah, 145 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: what about you? Crazy and needing? Sorry, I've been raised 146 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: to believe that there would be courting and love like 147 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: this is something I've been ranting about for so long 148 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: because I was always a hopeless romantic. I think most 149 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: people are, like, even when you're cynical, I think a 150 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: lot of people are cynical because they were really romantic 151 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: and they got disappointed a lot. That's fair, But who 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: doesn't want love. Who doesn't want somebody to gush and 153 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: be excited and try to make you feel really loved 154 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: and special. Like, it's so disgusting how many men have 155 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: tried to make you feel like you're a demon for 156 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: wanting basic care. 157 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 2: How much unrealistic expectation do you think that we absorb 158 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 2: from media and the internet, and like, you know, all 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,239 Speaker 2: of that just out in the air, so much. 160 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: So much, And that's you know, that's so much of 161 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: what that's so much of what I talk about, you know, 162 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: in the first book, that's what that's so much of 163 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: what I talk about, and when it comes to your 164 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: family members, and also what it means to be alone, 165 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: what it means to be a woman who is alone, 166 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: because we see, know, we say two things. We're like, oh, 167 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: she's so independent, and we're also like and a loser. 168 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: Like it's it's like we're saying all these things. You 169 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: can't pretend we're not saying them. And then in the 170 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: second book, you know, talking about friendship and all this stuff. 171 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: So much of what I learned from friendship was from 172 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: pop culture. I was told that, you know, we were 173 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: all gonna Me and my friends were all gonna meet 174 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: up every single day at the latest hot restaurant at 175 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: noon and we never needed a calendar. Like on Sex 176 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: and the City. I was told that, you know, we 177 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: were all going to live together or at least really 178 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: close by, like in Living Single or New Girl. Like 179 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. We live in different neighborhoods. It could 180 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: take you an hour to get to your friends like there, 181 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: And it's hard not to internalize that because you see 182 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: that as a kid or as an a adult, and 183 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: you're like, I want that. I'm sure I'll get that soon. 184 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: And then it doesn't happen like that, and you're like, 185 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: what did I do wrong? And I don't think we 186 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: did anything wrong. I really don't. I think, you know, 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: there's always things you can do to improve that. But 188 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: that's so much of Yeah, I've internalized a lot of 189 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: shame about that stuff. And I would keep watching those shows. 190 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: I still watch those shows. I love watching them because 191 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: we love I love watching Friends. I love not the 192 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: show Friends, but like I love watching shows about friends 193 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: where they're they love each other and they support each 194 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: other like, who doesn't love that? But it can get 195 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: really hard when you're like, it's great to watch this, 196 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: but I want to live this. I want to experience 197 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: it for real, not just through a TV. 198 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 199 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: I mean, let's talk about that so you will find 200 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: your friends. As about making friends as an adult and 201 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: how fraught hard it can be in some ways to 202 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: sort of break out of that. Why do you think 203 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 2: it can be so hard to make adult friends. 204 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of reasons, you know. One 205 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: of them is that it can't be denied. Like, our 206 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: current state of capitalism sucks, It really sucks. We're being 207 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: asked to work like sixty hours a week maybe more, 208 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: just to just to get by. That's really leaving us 209 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: very little time to take care of ourselves, to find 210 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: community to I mean, that's supposed to be that's supposed 211 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: to be the point of life. I really think the 212 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: point of life is to have these communities, to have 213 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: to feel like we have backup on backup. How can 214 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: you do that when you're trying to work just to survive. 215 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: I think that that can't be discounted. That is that 216 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: is part of it. And also so many of us, 217 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't live as close to each other as 218 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: maybe like previous generations did where you all lived in 219 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, maybe a little bit closer. I know, I 220 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: don't live that close to a lot of my friends. 221 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: A lot of my friends are long distance. That's harder. 222 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: And then you know, the other thing is is a 223 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: lot of us have been hurt a lot by past friends, 224 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: and so when we get older, it's like, you know, 225 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: when you scrape your knee as a kid, it hurt, 226 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: but like not necessarily as much as it hurts when 227 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: you get older, because like I don't know, like your 228 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: body's different, all these things, like it just that feel 229 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: like that stuff hurts so much more and that lasts 230 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: so much longer. And I think that that's true for 231 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: like relational pain. So like we've had so many cuts 232 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: and scrapes. I guess essentially our in our friendships as well, 233 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: where a lot of our past friendships have left us 234 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: feeling really scared to try again and really hurt, and 235 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: understandably we're like, yeah, I don't want to do that again. 236 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: Whereas I think when you're you know, eight fifteen, you're like, 237 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: I'll try again, Sure it'll get better. But then I 238 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: don't know. After twenty thirty years of that, you're like, 239 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: maybe I won't. Maybe this is you know, And so 240 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: it's I think a lot of it is our culture. 241 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is, and also a 242 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: lot of it is our own pain and our own 243 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: healing that we have to kind of do around that 244 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: and rewire how we choose people, what we allow. It's 245 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: so much stickier than most people talk about. They're just like, oh, 246 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: the social media, and I'm like, oh my god, it 247 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: can't It's not that easy. It's not that simple. 248 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back. 249 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: My parents were what you might call keep to themselves types. 250 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: We didn't have a house full of friends, and it 251 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: just wasn't something I saw a lot of growing up. 252 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: You could have acquaintances, sure, but we weren't really encouraged 253 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: to really let people in literally and metaphorically. It's something 254 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: that still shapes the way I understand friendship today as 255 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: an adult. There are so many things that we have 256 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: to unlearn, interrogate, baggage we have to put down that 257 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: kind of keeps us from showing up the way that 258 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: we want. I know, for me, I kind of was 259 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: one of those like my parents. They were the kind 260 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: of people who didn't have friends. They had family, and 261 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: so we had family around a lot, but they didn't 262 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: really have any friends. They didn't really have people over 263 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: that we were not blood relatives, and so I grew 264 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: up on a household where the norm was keeping to yourself. 265 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: It was unusual to have non blood people in your 266 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: life popping over. And so that is the default that 267 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: I always find myself going back to, and I have 268 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: to really work to catch myself to unlearn it and say, 269 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: you know, well, if somebody wants to come over, why 270 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: is my default being like, no, they can't. Or if 271 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: if somebody wants to get a drink somebody I don't 272 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: know very well. I just feel this, what feels familiar 273 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: is saying no, and I have to really step out 274 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: of myself to interrogate why that is and interrogate if 275 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: that is getting me to what the life that I 276 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: actually want or a life that just feels like what 277 00:14:59,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: I deserve. 278 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: So that's you know, I'm so glad that you said that, 279 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: because there's two things about that that are so important. 280 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: One is, we're only for the most part, we're only 281 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: going to have friendships that are what we're modeled for us. So, 282 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, for many of us, the only friendships we 283 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: saw were on TV, which or we saw our friend 284 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: our parents' friendships, if they had them or if they didn't, 285 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: if they were good or if they were bad. So 286 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: we're modeling that same thing if our if our parents 287 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: had weird friendships or didn't have a lot of friends. Yeah, 288 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: that's going to feel harder for us to navigate that. 289 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: You know, we talk about that a lot when it 290 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: comes to romantic relationships, where we're like, oh, you learn 291 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: what you know about romantic relationships from watching your parents' relationship. 292 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: It's the same thing from friendships. It's the exact same thing. 293 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: And then the other thing about that is that you know, 294 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: it's it's that's another part of those like old wounds, 295 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: Like so much of the ways we interact with our 296 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: friends are still reacting from that child place of like 297 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: those wounds that we have around our attachment styles and 298 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: the way that we were able to attach to our 299 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: parents and the way that our parents interactive with us. 300 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: We're still doing that. I wish it wasn't true because 301 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: it feels rude, but it's true. I feel like such 302 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: a really mad. 303 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that it's very easy to be like, oh, 304 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: the problem is social media, and I completely agree with 305 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: you that it's so much more complicated than that. We're 306 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: all living in we're all exhausted, we're all burnt out, 307 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: there's just so much going on. It's just so hard 308 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: to be a fucking person these days. But do you 309 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: think that the Internet and social media complicates, you know, 310 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: the way that people are building relationships or not building 311 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: relationships right now? 312 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: I do absolutely, And so you know, I only reference that, 313 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: and you probably already you know, knew this. But because 314 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: so often when we talk about people struggling with things 315 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: in our in our world, the people who are weighing 316 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: in just make it like the simplest thing. They're not 317 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: looking any deeper, and then it's just like, oh, just 318 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: go do this. This is really easy. And I just 319 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: hate that advice so much because there's all these pieces. 320 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: You have to look at all of them. All I 321 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: have to look at all of them. So yeah, I mean, 322 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, social media is a double edged sword for friendships, 323 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: I think, because on one hand, you can make friendships 324 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 1: of people who live far away who you might not 325 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: have met, which is particularly vital for marginalized people who 326 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: might not meet a lot of other people who are 327 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: like them. I mean, that's a huge, huge thing, so 328 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: I can't discount that. I think that's also why I 329 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: hate when people are like social media is bad. I'm like, 330 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know anyone like them in 331 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: their areas. This is a huge tool. You can't say 332 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: that it's all bad. But on the other side of that, 333 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: I know social media can also be this horrible source 334 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: for comparison, where we're constantly seeing people post their perfect, 335 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: perfect friend group, having their perfect, perfect birthday parties and 336 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: their perfect perfect girls trips and all these things. And 337 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: again that shame comes back in and I'm like, they 338 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: have it too, everyone has it. Oh like it's and Nate. 339 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: The thing is, they might not even have it. They 340 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: might not their friendships might be full of resentment and 341 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: gossip and backbiting and and unsaid things. It's very likely 342 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: that they are. But if you're just scrolling through your phone, 343 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: you're like, ugh, another reminder of what I want to 344 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: have that I don't have, and they have it. 345 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: It exists, you know, Yeah, I think I hadn't really 346 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: even thought about that. Of the way that that comparison 347 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: aspect of social media really can make you feel more 348 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: dug into your shame because you feel like you're alone. 349 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 2: You feel like everybody else is hanging out without me, 350 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: having brunch or on a girl's trip to roam or whatever. 351 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: They're wrong on the boat and I'm in my apartment. 352 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 2: And yeah, it really keeps us dug into the experience 353 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: that we are the only people like experiencing these painful 354 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: feelings when everybody, it doesn't matter who you are, everybody 355 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: feels alone. Sometimes everybody feels disconnected and disengaged. 356 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's true, it's true. And it's also like, you know, 357 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 1: the people who don't have that aren't going to post that, 358 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Like I'm not gonna, you know, post a photo of 359 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: me with you know, the friends I wish I was 360 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: hanging out with are just dead space. I'm like me 361 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: with my best friends on this boat. It's just like 362 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: me alone. Like people who struggle with that aren't going 363 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: to do that because there's no way to really effectively 364 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: do that. And also, you know, some people feel their 365 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: own shame from not having that that they don't want 366 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: to necessarily broadcast it. But I think that's it too, 367 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, I always know that's the hardest thing, right. 368 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: It's like the people who don't have something are not 369 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: going to post that they don't have it. But I 370 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: think the other thing that's tough about it, too, is 371 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: that so many people are posting it as sort of 372 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: like a keeping up with the Joneses thing, where they're like, 373 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: I have to post that I have really great friends. 374 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: I have to do this. And it's so funny because 375 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: when I did a TV appearance for this book, and 376 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 1: my book publisher was like, was like, hey, like the 377 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: this like morning show wants you to give us some 378 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: photos of you and your friends so that we can 379 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: put them up there. And I was like, fun, fact, 380 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: I have no photos of me with my friends. I 381 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: don't even know where I would like I maybe have some, 382 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: like after comedy shows or something like that. But when 383 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm hanging out with my friends, we don't take photos. 384 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: I don't really do that, and so some people like 385 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: to do it. I'm not saying that people who do 386 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: that are it's like put upon, but I don't think 387 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: to do that when I'm hanging out with a group 388 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: of people. I'm like, all right, photo approved. This happened 389 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: like I I don't. But then when you don't have 390 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: those photos and you don't have those posts, you're like, 391 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't know if that one is 392 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: if other people feel like that. But then you're like, oh, 393 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't have those photos? Are those friendships real? And 394 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: it's like, of course they are, You're just not, do 395 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's it's a. 396 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, I know. For and again I'm not knocking 397 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: anybody who is someone who likes to document there, Yeah, 398 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: it's fine. 399 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: And it's just not what I do. And I'm like, 400 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: why do I Why don't I do that? And why 401 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: don't I have those Why don't I have proof? Why 402 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: can't I show this proof that I have friends? 403 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, if I'm having a truly good time with friends, 404 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm probably my phone is probably deep in my bag 405 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 2: and I'm not thinking about it. Like that's like to me, 406 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: that is the marker of me that I'm really engaged 407 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: is that I wasn't even thinking about at the document this. 408 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: I'm just like fully present And so if there's ever 409 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: an event where there's tons of photos taken by me, 410 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: that's probably a signal that I maybe wasn't as engaged 411 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: or as present. Yeah, otherwise again. 412 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, But again it's like, that's why I 413 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: love talking about things like this, because I think there 414 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: are a lot of us out there who feel like that. 415 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: But if nobody talks about it, then you're just sitting 416 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 1: there being like everyone's having fun with their friends, everyone 417 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: remembers take photos. Everyone's having so much fun they can't 418 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: help but take photos. Like you tell yourself these stories 419 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I had a lot of fun 420 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: and I was very present, and I didn't take photos 421 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: for I felt like it'd be awkward to take a photo, 422 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: or I don't know, I overthought it in some way. 423 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: And then you're like, was I not having enough fun 424 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: to necessitate photos? And why didn't like you? Again? Does 425 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: this like trying to be this version of normal that 426 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: doesn't really exist because you feel this way, I feel this, 427 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: like other people feel this, but we're still holding ourselves 428 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: up to like what we see. 429 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: Everyone feels lonely sometimes, and according to a twenty twenty 430 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: survey from the insurance company Sigma, gen Z is lonelier 431 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 2: than older generations, with seventy three percent of gen Z 432 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 2: respondents reporting that they feel alone either sometimes or always 433 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: the highest level of any generation. Now it's easy to 434 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: blame smartphones and social media, and that might be part 435 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: of it, but Lane says it's more complicated than that. 436 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 2: Your book is about making friends as an adult. But 437 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: I often wonder the younger generation, like teenagers, how are 438 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 2: they navigating this incredibly fraud dynamic that we navigate. I mean, 439 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 2: I'll speak for myself, I navigate poorly as an adult. 440 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: I wonder how the younger generation who has grown up 441 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 2: seeped in this, this has been their reality for most 442 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 2: of their lives. How are they navigating it? Do you think? 443 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: I think it's one of those things like from people 444 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: that I've talked to, even just like on this book tour, 445 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: like you know, having people's parents be like, hey, can 446 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: you I bought this book for my daughter or my 447 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: son who's really struggling with their friendships right now now, 448 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: can you sign it to them? And I was like, 449 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: oh God, yes, Like can I send a hug with this? 450 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: Because I just I think some things change and somethings 451 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: stay very much the same, you know, where it's like 452 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: they're still bullying, there's still people being too weird to 453 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: have friends, too different to have friends, there's still and 454 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: then I think you have the added thing that I 455 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: truly can't imagine, which is social media. Of that I 456 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: can't imagine being a teenager or around that age and 457 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: feeling like I had to follow all the popular kids 458 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: on social media. Like when I think about it, I'm 459 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: just like I would, and then like if one of 460 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: your friends unfollowed you, like that feels bad now as 461 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: an adult, but at fifteen, I think I would have 462 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: lost it. Like you know, we had our own versions 463 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: of this stuff, but I think it's so added it 464 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: And also, you know, filters, like if there's so many 465 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: things that I just feel like can warp, you know, 466 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: and it's I'm not it's not being like, oh, you're 467 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: grasping at straws to say that filters are really affecting children, 468 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: Like you know, we know that there are like more 469 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: and more like kids like people under eighteen or like 470 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: getting classic surge and stuff. There's no way that's not 471 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: because they're like, oh I look better with this filter, 472 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: Like you know, there's just I feel like it's it's 473 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: got to be really rough, but you know, I don't. 474 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: I still feel like I understand it, Like as much 475 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: as it's easy to be like, oh, it's probably so 476 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: different from when we were kids, I don't know. I've 477 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: talked to teenagers and kids and stuff about their friendships 478 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: and things like that, and a lot of the stuff 479 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: that's not really what they necessarily bring up the most. 480 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of the stuff just stays 481 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: the same where it's like, you know, their friends were 482 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 1: their friends and then they suddenly all turned on them 483 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: and started bullying them. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've 484 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: been through that. Like, you know, a lot of this 485 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: stuff stays the same. You wish it didn't, you wish 486 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: it would get better, But I don't know. So I 487 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, if that makes sense, Like I feel 488 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: like a lot of ways it's the same stuff. Yeah, 489 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: that happened. 490 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 2: It speaks back to your point about how it's easy 491 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 2: to cling to the simplistic answer of like, it's social media, 492 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: that's what's doing it right. Yeah, more after a. 493 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 3: Quick break, let's get right back into it. 494 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 2: I was thinking back to a memory when I was 495 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 2: in junior high at camp. But our version of following 496 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 2: the popular people on social media was after somebody had 497 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: a wild weekend out, they would bring like a like 498 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: a stack of physical photos of like all the memories. 499 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 2: I remember being on a lunch table and there was 500 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: a girl doing that and she had like a stack 501 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: of photos and all of her friends were sitting around 502 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 2: her looking through these photos laughing thinking oh so great. 503 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, can I see And she 504 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: said to me, if I wanted everybody to see, I 505 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: would be passing them around. And so like it's like that. 506 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: I think kids are probably having that same vibe on 507 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: social media and it probably feels inflamed or heightened. But 508 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: it's not new. You know, everybody's experienced that. It's just 509 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: like social media makes you so much more hyper aware 510 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: of it. 511 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's really all it is. You can see 512 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: more tangible stuff because you know, when I was a 513 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: kid and someone was like not talking to me or 514 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: giving me the cold shoulder or whatever, Like I didn't 515 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: need to see that they'd like unfollowed me or whatever. 516 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 1: It was like, Oh you could feel that they'd unfollow you. Yeah, 517 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, you've this is wild cool, cool cool cool, 518 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: like the irl unfollow Yeah, like you knew, you knew 519 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: when you'd been unfollowed, and you're like, what did I, 520 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: and you like can't. You want to ask what you did, 521 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: but you can't. And it's like, you know, when you 522 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: look at it that way, you're like, you know, stuff 523 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: at a basic human level, stuff hasn't changed that much, 524 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: and you know, it's all the same, it's all the 525 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: same stuff that it was. Where it's like those are 526 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: people who have their own pain and they're trying to 527 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: have power over somebody else and you know, whatever it is, 528 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: and it's boringly human. Yeah, you know. 529 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 2: You touch on this in the book. But one of 530 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 2: the things that I find so interesting is the ways 531 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: that the way that we build friendships is really gendered. 532 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, women are sort of 533 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: told you can make friends, but this is just like 534 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: a placeholder. You'll meet then you'll meet your romantic partner. 535 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: Y'all will get married and that's the real prize. You know. 536 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: In what ways do you think that the way the 537 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: way that like we that different genders are told to 538 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: think about friendships in their life, how do you see 539 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: this as as all a gendered thing that's playing out. 540 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just the way that 541 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: we're we're socialized, you know, I know, there are so 542 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: many men out there who men men when it comes 543 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: to their friendships, like they're they're told that, like, it 544 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 1: can't be that emotional, it has to just be like 545 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: watching the game together and all of that stuff and 546 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: this like you know, you don't hug and you don't cry, 547 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: and you don't we don't talk about our feelings. Oh 548 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: like we don't do any of that stuff. And so 549 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: where what are men doing with those feelings? Because men 550 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: have feelings, All genders experience emotions. Like it's just so 551 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: so harmful, so unnecessary, you know, And so then a 552 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: lot of those men are going and there they're trying 553 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: to do that with their female partners because that's the 554 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: only they know. Women understand that. But that's a lot 555 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: of pressure to put on the women in your life. 556 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: And then they don't really know how to be friends 557 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: with a woman because they're told that women are not 558 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: your friends. They are supposed to be sex objects and 559 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: in this way or romantic. I'm just all these things 560 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: you can't women can't be people. So you know, there's 561 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: all these conflicting messages that they're given and I really 562 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: I really empathize with it because I empathize with the 563 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: men who are doing their best to unlearn that shit, 564 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: because it's not it's not anyone's fault that these ideas 565 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: have been placed in the world, but it is our 566 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: responsibility to unlearn them. That's just the way it is. So, 567 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of empathy for men 568 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: who are like, this is a really lonely existence. I 569 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: want to have close friendships. I want to have friendships, 570 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: like women are allowed to have friendships, and it's like, yeah, 571 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: this kind of thinking limits everybody. And then you know, 572 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: women again, yeah exactly are told the same the same 573 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: thing in a different way where it's like, oh, yeah, 574 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: you can be like close and intimate, but like really, 575 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: your partner should be your whole world and like he 576 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: should get which if you think about what those two 577 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: genders are being told, so like we're supposed to save 578 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: all our energy for our male partner who doesn't know 579 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,479 Speaker 1: how to talk about his feelings, So like what is 580 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: this who doesn't know how to have a friendship outside 581 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: of chest bumps, Like and you know, like what it's 582 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: just all it's not working for us. And you know, 583 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: that's why it was important for me to talk about 584 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: things like this in the book, because to take it 585 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: from this personal you know, this personal thing that we're 586 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: making bad choices, this personal shame, and it's like, no, no, 587 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: we have a bunch of things constructed here that are 588 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: really flawed and difficult to navigate. It makes sense that 589 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: people are struggling. 590 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: In my other life, I do a lot of work 591 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: around combating extremism and how people kind of like fall 592 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: down dangerous rabbit holes online. Like that is definitely if 593 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: you're an adult, like it is your responsibility to not 594 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 2: do that. But time and time again, the research indicates 595 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 2: that loneliness when you combine men who are or even 596 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: anybody really, but people who are lonely with the internet, 597 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: people who don't have strong connections in their lives, that 598 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 2: is like a recipe for people falling down dangerous ideologies online. 599 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: And so all of this is important not just for 600 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: the people that you know want to have fulfilling, meaningful 601 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 2: relationships and full lives, but it's important to all of us, 602 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: Like it makes us less safe as a culture when 603 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 2: people are social when men especially are socialized to not 604 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: have those connections, because the research is just very clear 605 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: that it opens up a pathway to much more dangerous 606 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: and potentially harmful, violent ways of thinking and being in 607 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: the world. 608 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: Yes, no, absolutely, I mean I think that's why we 609 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: have to stop looking at it like, you know, it's 610 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: everyone for themselves. I mean, and I that was something 611 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: that had frustrated me my whole life because I think 612 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: I just I as this like very soft hearted little kid. 613 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: I was like, but aren't we like all supposed to 614 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: like help each other. And like I look back at that, 615 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you're in for a rough throat. And 616 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: then you're thinking like that at like seven, that's not 617 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: before thinking. But there is this idea of like that's 618 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: your business and this is my business, and well, I 619 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: don't know if you doesn't you know, have any help, 620 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: that's not my problem. And it's like if we had 621 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: a sense of community, no one would be left behind, 622 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: no one would be ostracized, no one would be like 623 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: you're different from me, you're bad. We wouldn't see each 624 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: other as as a competition. We would see each other 625 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: as you know it It sounds kind of hippie. But 626 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: does it sound kind of you know, hippie's had a 627 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: lot of good points, I you know, I mean, it's 628 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: like it's I'm not trying to sound too like WU, 629 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: but I think it's it's really true. I think if 630 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: we had more compassion and less limits and we know 631 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: why those limits were put there, they were put there, 632 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: and I think that's something I have to remind myself of. 633 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, we know that you know all of these like, well, 634 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm different from this person, and this person's different and 635 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: they're bad, and like all this stuff was not created 636 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: by us and was created, you know, to sell us 637 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: stuff to make people mad, to distract people from other issues. 638 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I don't want to go down 639 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: that rabbit hole either, but it's it's something that helps 640 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: me when I think about it, because I'm just like, 641 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: how did we get these ideas that like each other 642 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: are the problem? You know what I mean? And it's 643 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: like the men you're talking about who go down this 644 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: extremest place. 645 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, what if you could be angry at 646 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 4: the systems that created this, how much more productive would 647 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 4: that be and how much more community positive community would 648 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 4: you have? 649 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: Like the men who are like women are the problem, 650 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: I hate this, blah blah blah. It's like, oh my god, 651 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: if you could see that, like the ways that you 652 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: have been socialized that think that men have to be 653 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: this way, women have to be like that. That's the problem. 654 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: You're putting it on the wrong person. Man, you know, 655 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's tough because we can't you know, 656 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: we can only do so much work on that. And 657 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: again that that really is when it's like, hopefully everybody's 658 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: doing that own work and gets to that realization as 659 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: soon as they can, because like, more divisiveness, more hatred, 660 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: more rage, more violence, it's never going to bring you 661 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: more joy. It's never going to bring you more community, 662 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,479 Speaker 1: not in a not a good way. 663 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: Like, so, what tips do you have for folks listening 664 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: on how to make friends as an adult? 665 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, So one of the things that I talk a 666 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: lot about in the book is things like attachment styles 667 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: and love languages, which we talk so much about in 668 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: romantic relationships, but we don't talk about it when it 669 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: comes to our friendships because again, we have this idea 670 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,720 Speaker 1: that your romantic relationships should take work and your friendship 671 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: should just be easy and have no communication, and that 672 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: is garbage. So really looking at the ways that you 673 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: give and receive love and the ways that your friends 674 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 1: give and receive love. Really just trying to understand people 675 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: a little bit more, because your friendships are relationships. I know, 676 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: it's really easy to want that friend who just gets 677 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: you and you never have to explain it. I've wanted 678 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: that my whole life, where I'm like, I want everyone 679 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: to know what I need and I never want to 680 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: talk about it ever. But you know, part of growth 681 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: is realizing like I could keep doing that and expecting that, 682 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: or like, what are the ways I need to communicate 683 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: a little bit more, What are the ways I need 684 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: to say even if it sucks, even if I've done 685 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: it before and it didn't go well. I think a 686 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: lot of it is trying things in new ways, trying 687 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: to relate to people in new ways, trying to relate 688 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: to the people in your life in new ways, trying to, 689 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, maybe meet different kinds of people than the 690 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: ones that Going back to what we were talking about earlier, 691 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: so many of us have this set pattern where we're like, oh, 692 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm always this friend and like, you know, I'm always 693 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: the one who gives more. I'm always the one who 694 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: like takes care of them and they don't take care 695 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: of me. And then we repeat these patterns to like 696 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: prove it's true. It's not conscious I've done it's it's 697 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: not coming from a place of like, oh you stupid, 698 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: unhealed people do this. No, no, all, It's like it's 699 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: extremely because that's how people talk about it, you know, 700 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: like a lot of experts are like, well, if you're 701 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: an idiot, then you're doing this, and I'm like, be quiet, Beth, 702 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. But like it's just 703 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: so lacks any empathy, Like, you know, everything I'm talking 704 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: about is something I've like lived and struggled with and 705 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: had to learn because I've done it. So it's you know, 706 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 1: but we have to take a look at that and say, oh, okay, 707 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: maybe there's more work that I have to do on myself. 708 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: Maybe there's more boundaries that I have to set up. 709 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: So I think that, you know, obviously I could give 710 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,479 Speaker 1: the advice like people love to give the throwaway avice 711 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: of like go to a bar or talk to somebody. 712 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: I don't think the reason I don't give that advice 713 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: other than I just think it's oversimplified and kind of worthless, 714 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: is that is that I don't think people's problem is 715 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: meeting people. I don't think that's it. I don't think 716 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: the hard thing about making friends is that you're not 717 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: meeting someone. I think the hard thing often comes with 718 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: finding people who are compatible. You want to be their friend, 719 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: maybe they don't want to be yours, whatever, having better 720 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: dynamics in that friendship, communicating better, having somebody who can 721 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: meet your needs. I think it's all these things, and 722 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: then growing and changing with that friend, knowing how to 723 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: let it go when it happens. So I think it 724 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: really is just a lot of work that you're doing 725 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: on yourself and then a lot of work you're doing 726 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: with that other person, not necessarily bad work, but I 727 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: just again, I don't think it stops as like, oh, 728 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: you need to meet people. It's like, well, yes, but 729 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: what do you do when you meet people? How do 730 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: you change what you do when you meet people? Because 731 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: we all have our own little patterns, So like we 732 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: can meet someone and then we still do the little 733 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: thing that we do with them that might not be 734 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: good for us, you know. 735 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really comes back to like being curious and 736 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 2: introspective about your patterns, how you show up if that's 737 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: working for you, I. 738 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: Think, yes, I think that's so much of it, and 739 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: it's like it sounds like we want the easy answer. 740 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: I think that that is why so many of those 741 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: experts who are like, oh, i'll tell you right now, 742 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: go to a bar, go to this specific bar. That's 743 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: why people love stuff like that, because people, so many 744 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: people have been conditioned, because I don't blame them, have 745 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: been conditioned to want the like, cheapest, simplest answer because 746 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: we want something that's like, you know, we want to 747 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: be able to say I'm lonely. I want to be 748 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 1: able to take something right now that'll make me stop 749 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: being lonely. We want something that's easy and you know 750 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: that's it and so, but that's not true. That's not real. 751 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: And the real truth of it is that it's messier 752 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: than that, it's more personal than that, and it's harder 753 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: than that. But I'd rather do the real, true healing 754 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: around that to have better friendships than to do kind 755 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: of like a band aid that covers up the wound 756 00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: and you just have to keep getting more band aids 757 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: mm hmm. 758 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of wounds I have about Tender Live. Yes, 759 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: that was my first forrite into your work. Uh nice, 760 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 2: I am obsessed with it. So here's my question for 761 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 2: people who are on the apps like Tinder Live, it 762 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 2: really shows you how horrible online meeting can be. The 763 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: piece I mentioned, the piece about going on Tinder in 764 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 2: San Francisco especially, or was like, oh, I lived there 765 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 2: for a while. I know exactly that, you know, like 766 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 2: I own a tech company, but I also go hiking up. 767 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm not like the other men. 768 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 2: I'm out, I'm out in nature. Honey. Yeah, what do 769 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 2: you what advice do you have for someone who justlike 770 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 2: cannot swipe past another bad tender or hinge profile. They're 771 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 2: just fucking done. I know somebody out there is like 772 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 2: that is me. What should that person do? 773 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: You don't have to, you don't have to. I mean, 774 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that's really so much of it. Like 775 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, I love I love doing Tender Live because 776 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: it makes people feel less alone in that it makes 777 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,240 Speaker 1: people realize they're not the only one getting the bad messages. 778 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: They're not the only one doing these things. But uh, 779 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: if someone's not getting something out of that, they're allowed 780 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: to stop. Like there's this idea that we have and 781 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: and this is put on everybody, but it's put on 782 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: women especially where like you have to keep trying. If 783 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: you stop, If you stop trying, You're never gonna find 784 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? And it's 785 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 1: like there's so many of us out there. I've been 786 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: there many times myself, where you know, I mean, it's funny, 787 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: it's funny to say, but like I'm only on those 788 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: apps for work. I'm only as for a Tender Live. 789 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,839 Speaker 1: I don't you know. I'm like, I do my comedy show, 790 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: that's it. But it is funny because like when I 791 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: go on tour with Tinderlive, I'll be in like a 792 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: coffee shop in like Chicago, and I'm like swiping ferociously 793 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,240 Speaker 1: and I feel like there's probably someone behind me being 794 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 1: like wow, she's just like really horny this morning, and 795 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm here, this is for work. And 796 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: then but like how would I even explain what that 797 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: work is with that? Like I don't even know. But 798 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's okay to be like maybe this isn't 799 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: for me, this doesn't feel good. I'm going to stop 800 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: doing it. I can. It's it sounds simple and it 801 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it is simple to do. But yeah, I 802 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: don't I don't agree with that, Like hustle harder mindset 803 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: of like I don't know, just do it twice as much. 804 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: It's like, what, No, it's someone doesn't feel good, so 805 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: you should stop. You're allowed, I think knowing you're allowed 806 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: to stop, and it doesn't mean you're gonna definitely die 807 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: alone now because you stop doing something that didn't feel 808 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: good for you. I think that's such a toxic notion. 809 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: And also, you know, if you're a romantic at all, 810 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: or you believe in fate at all, which you know 811 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: I do to some extent, Like I don't know, my 812 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: stulmay can find me some other way then like figure 813 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: something out, babe. I'm taking a break, maybe at a 814 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: coffee shop. I don't know. 815 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 2: We are in what feels like a very weird time 816 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 2: when it comes to the internet technology social media apps stating, 817 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 2: what do you see as the future of connection as 818 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 2: it pertains online, especially like we're in this in this 819 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 2: weird moment, how do you think that's going to affect 820 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 2: the way that people connect or don't connect? 821 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: I really don't know. I really don't know, because you know, 822 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: I talked to a lot of gen X people, especially 823 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: you haven't like been on dating apps and stuff. A 824 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: lot you know a lot of them have, but people 825 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: who've like never been on dating apps and only knew 826 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,399 Speaker 1: what it was like, because like, you know, I've been 827 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: on like I've had the Internet my whole life, so 828 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: it's like, to me, like, that's not that strange. But 829 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: if you didn't have the Internet your whole life and 830 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: you only met people in person ever, Like I've had 831 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 1: long distance friends as a child, So to me, it's 832 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,359 Speaker 1: not that weird. But when I talk to them, they're like, 833 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand. Why can't you just go talk to 834 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: someone at a bar? If you see someone hot, just 835 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: go up to them. And I'm as someone who's grown 836 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: up so much on the internet, I'm like, uh like, 837 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that's gonna be the future generation as well. 838 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: It's just like, are you kidding me? No, you know, 839 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: when you've grown up with that. So I don't know 840 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 1: where it's going because do I think that they're right 841 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: in that it is better to meet people in person, 842 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: of course, but like I don't know, social anxiety, being 843 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: tired again, the same kinds of problems. So I don't know. 844 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: I really don't know where it's gonna go. I hope 845 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: it goes somewhere good. It probably will be some kind 846 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: of return to something in person, because I don't know. 847 00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: Technology has made our lives better in a lot of ways, 848 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 1: but it's also just like I think it makes it 849 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: worse in others. It just does. It's like you can't 850 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that you can. Yeah, I don't know 851 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,439 Speaker 1: that you can make it easier necessarily, and I think 852 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: even the ones that like promise to do that, it 853 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: still just feels exhausting to so many of us. So 854 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, no, this makes it better, And I'm 855 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: like not if me and everyone I know feels really 856 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: tired when they use it. 857 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,879 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, everyone is so exhausted. 858 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, other app is it? I don't think that's like it. 859 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. And also, you know, if it was, 860 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: it wouldn't make any money because people would be like 861 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: I found a friend, I'm. 862 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:41,720 Speaker 2: Good, I'm done. 863 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like that's so it would have to be 864 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: like some billionaire philanthropist who like made a really good 865 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: app he didn't need to make money on, like yeah, 866 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: and I don't know that we're going to get that 867 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:52,919 Speaker 1: anytime soon. 868 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, the book is he will find your people. 869 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,879 Speaker 2: Where can folks pick up and learn more. 870 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can get it at any local bookstore. 871 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: I have links on my website lanemore dot org and 872 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: in all my social media links to at Hello Lane Moore. 873 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: And then it's available on hardcover and also there's an 874 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: audiobook that I read as well, so you can. 875 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 2: With great like impressions and stuff like, Yeah, a lot 876 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 2: of the vocal flourishes in the audio book for you. 877 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: Yes, I love I love doing those little impressions of 878 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: like being able to you know, if I had some 879 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: in my past who was like kind of a dick, 880 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: be like voice sounded, it feels like a little win, 881 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, like that is how you sounded to me. 882 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 2: I love it, Lane. Is there anything that I did 883 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 2: not ask that you want to make sure it gets included? 884 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: I'll tell people because I always, uh, I was always 885 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 1: forgetting to say this, and I'm like, no, for remember 886 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: to say this. I have a podcast I do on 887 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: Patreon called I Thought It Was Just Me where people 888 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,680 Speaker 1: can call in and ask questions and we answer them. 889 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,799 Speaker 1: On the show, I do bits of Tinder Live where 890 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: I review chaotic profiles, and we do a really cool 891 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: segment called what are We where people can call in 892 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: and tell me about all their weird situationships and I 893 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: give you a very legally binding judges ruling about why 894 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: you are just so fun. And I started it recently 895 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, you need to be telling people 896 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: about this more because it's so great and there's a 897 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: really great community of people on there, and we just like, Yeah, 898 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 1: it's really wonderful. 899 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech. I 900 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 2: just want to say Hi. You can reach just at 901 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 2: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts 902 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No 903 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget Toad. 904 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland 905 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,840 Speaker 2: as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and 906 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, 907 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 2: bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate 908 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 2: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 909 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 2: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 910 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:15,239 Speaker 2: get your podcasts.