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Speaker 1: Quality diarist, but Joseph's gotten more. I want to say

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Speaker 1: something to you today, and I want you to hear

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Speaker 1: me right and understand. In my opinion, and this comes

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Speaker 1: from both professional and personal experience, I wager that there

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Speaker 1: is no darker place, particularly for a parent, to be

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Speaker 1: in than when it comes to the loss of a child.

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Speaker 1: You're looking for rock bottom.

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Speaker 2: You're here.

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Speaker 1: It seems like nothing else in the world matters. It's

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Speaker 1: as if a part of you has died as well,

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Speaker 1: and it has. I want to revisit a case that

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Speaker 1: that we've talked about previously on Bodybacks, and the reason

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about this today is that there

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Speaker 1: have been developments. There have been developments in the case

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Speaker 1: involving a tiny little life, a life that died in

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Speaker 1: the midst of childbirth and the horror that followed that event.

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Speaker 1: What I'm talking about is the early premature death of

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Speaker 1: a little one named Tree Beyond Isaiah Taylor Jr. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: known as Baby Isaiah. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is Bodybacks day. Back when we initially covered Baby Isaiah's death.

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Speaker 1: I remember following following that episode, I felt a sudden

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Speaker 1: need to go take a shower, and I needed to

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Speaker 1: scrub my brain because I couldn't believe some of the

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Speaker 1: things that we were hearing that were coming out of well,

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Speaker 1: let's face at the south side of Atlanta, down in

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Speaker 1: Clayton County where this baby had died at Southern Regional Hospital.

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Speaker 1: That story in and of itself is horrific, but what

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Speaker 1: happened afterwards and trying to understand what brought about this

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Speaker 1: little angel's death, It's like it you see something that

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Speaker 1: is bad and then you think it can't get any

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Speaker 1: worse than all of a sudden it does.

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Speaker 2: It got worse.

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Speaker 3: Did this first episode about baby Isaiah dying at birth,

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Speaker 3: and we we will recover this again for those who

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Speaker 3: haven't heard the story yet. But you know, I didn't

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Speaker 3: really go into a personal side of this that much.

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Speaker 3: And I when my daughter Hannah was born, she was stuck.

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Speaker 3: She was not getting over a part. Now Loadonna had

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Speaker 3: had a child previously by C section, and she wanted

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Speaker 3: to have Hannah vaginally, a vaginal delivery, and everything was fine,

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Speaker 3: but her head was not. She was getting stuck. She

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Speaker 3: was not getting over a hump in there that was

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Speaker 3: keeping her from and the doctor was not operating as

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Speaker 3: quickly as the nurse who was standing there with me

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Speaker 3: thought he should be. But she's a nurse. I'm the dad,

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Speaker 3: this is my wife, and you're the doctor. I don't

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Speaker 3: like what he was doing either, but the bottom line

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Speaker 3: is I realized then how out of control I was.

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Speaker 3: I'm not in I cannot do anything to help, and

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Speaker 3: thankfully this nurse when the doctor turned, she said, Dave,

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Speaker 3: grab her head and push it up into her belly

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Speaker 3: as hard as you can, and that's how we got

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Speaker 3: Hannah out. He'd brought up forceps and actually did cut her,

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Speaker 3: which I know there's a necessity to them, but please, God,

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Speaker 3: love you don't do that. Yeah, but because it does

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Speaker 3: leave damage that stays for a lifetime and it can

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Speaker 3: be really bad.

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Speaker 2: We didn't experience that part, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a friend of mind that during his

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Speaker 1: birth he wound up having a His eye was compromised

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Speaker 1: in birth as a result of them the manipulation that

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Speaker 1: went on, and his eye was always as some people

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Speaker 1: might call it a lazy eye.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: Drooping, but there was still visible Structurally, you could tell

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Speaker 1: that there was something that was off, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of it has to do with how malleable the skull is,

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Speaker 1: I think, but that malleability can sometimes lead to I

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Speaker 1: think maybe some practitioners thinking that the body is more

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Speaker 1: resilient sometimes than it actually is. And you know, in

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Speaker 1: the case of Isaiah, well.

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Speaker 3: When we heard about how that what happened though, Joe,

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Speaker 3: in that case, the nurses were talking about the pressure

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Speaker 3: that came to bear and the section that this doctor Houston,

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Speaker 3: we probably need to go over that a little bit

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Speaker 3: because whereas I was present when things were happening with

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Speaker 3: Lodonna and Hannah, and I realized then again how difficult

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Speaker 3: this is. We take it for granted. We take so

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Speaker 3: many things in our life today for granted. Childbirth cannot

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Speaker 3: be taken granted. It's a moment where the new life,

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Speaker 3: the life of your partner, everybody is at risk. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of risk going on at childbirth, and I'm

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Speaker 3: so thankful that we have in this country such a

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Speaker 3: great record for having children. But you know what, the

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Speaker 3: story of baby Isaiah and the cover up that took

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Speaker 3: place after it, Yeah, tells you that things are not

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Speaker 3: what they seem sometimes and you better trust, you better

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Speaker 3: study up before you go to have a baby. Know

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Speaker 3: what a normal delivery time is, know how long a

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Speaker 3: woman should be in labor before you push for something else.

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Speaker 3: Because apparently this doctor didn't have a clue. It boggles

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Speaker 3: my mind.

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Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, it does mine as well. And that you

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to you know, you have to

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Speaker 1: look at their track record. That's why. You know. The

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Speaker 1: thing about it is, I think in America we're so

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Speaker 1: prone to well, this person has MD after their name,

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Speaker 1: and they have these board certifications. Obviously they know what

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Speaker 1: they're doing. And they wouldn't put you know, my unborn

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Speaker 1: child soon to be born at risk, and wouldn't put

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Speaker 1: and I'm speaking as a husband now, I wouldn't put

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Speaker 1: my wife's life at risk because they've been trained to

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Speaker 1: do these sort of things. And when you know, we

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Speaker 1: begin to discuss this and talk about the horror that

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Speaker 1: was involved and what was and I'll say it, I'll

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Speaker 1: say it right here, what was perpetrated upon this very

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Speaker 1: young couple day where they didn't they didn't know any better.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you remember when you were a young parent.

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Speaker 1: I remember when you know, I didn't have my first

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Speaker 1: child until I was a little bit older. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's not like I was a nineteen year old kid.

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Speaker 1: But still you lean into the idea that they're so

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Speaker 1: well trained and that they're so highly educated and that

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Speaker 1: they're going to help you. You can't see this kind

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Speaker 1: of catashee happening particularly to you, you know, and the

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Speaker 1: ones that you love, and then insult to injury, drag

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Speaker 1: everybody into this idea that we're going to present these

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Speaker 1: circumstances as if it's just the child died. The child died.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing we could.

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Speaker 3: Do and nothing we did to heart to cause it

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Speaker 3: and nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we cannot you know, we're not responsible for this.

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Speaker 1: But David, I gotta tell you, man, the physical evidence

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Speaker 1: here bears out something a bit different, now, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: Oh buddy, we know it started July ninth of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three, two years coming up on the two year anniversary.

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Speaker 2: Wow, this baby would be a little toddler right now.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 3: And Tevion and Isaiah Taylor Sr. And Jessica Ross expecting

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Speaker 3: the child. They go through everything that she goes through,

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Speaker 3: the prenatal care. They do everything they're supposed to do.

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Speaker 3: She goes into labor ninth and during the vaginal birth,

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Speaker 3: the baby's the baby boy's shoulders got stuck. Now, you

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Speaker 3: know a lot more about biology and how the body

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Speaker 3: works than I do, but a shoulder getting stuck during

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Speaker 3: birth doesn't seem like it would be something unheard of,

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Speaker 3: something that can't be overcome in this day and age

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Speaker 3: that you know, something's obviously not right here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so most of the time in these deliveries,

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Speaker 1: there are multiple ways that you can kind of spur

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Speaker 1: things on. I think one of the things that that

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Speaker 1: kind of comes to mind first. Then these these are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily applicable in every one of the circumstances. But

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Speaker 1: some things we just kind of naturally think about is like, well,

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Speaker 1: an episiotomy if you've ever heard that term, if you

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Speaker 1: think of if you think of the vaginal opening as

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Speaker 1: a clock face at six o'clock position, there will be

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Speaker 1: an ensue made, and that's to accommodate the size of

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Speaker 1: the child in order to facilitate because there's this critical point.

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Speaker 1: I think that when practitioners get to where they have

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Speaker 1: to make a decision if if we're going to do

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Speaker 1: a C section, we need to do it now before

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Speaker 1: it gets to this point. And that's you know, that's

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Speaker 1: the rub here. But you know, there's suction that's available,

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Speaker 1: there's various rotations of the child's body that can take place.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things that doctors will do, and

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Speaker 1: the nurses, the midwives that go in and they can

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Speaker 1: turn turn the baby in order to facilitate this. And

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Speaker 1: it takes, you know, you have to have a great

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Speaker 1: scientific mind to be an effective practitioner, but it takes

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Speaker 1: a bit of finesse too, that comes along with just

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Speaker 1: experience and these sorts of things, and every every person

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Speaker 1: is different and how they're going to respond because not

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Speaker 1: everybody's body is the same.

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Speaker 3: Man. You know, I'm so glad you said that, Joe,

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Speaker 3: because as I was sitting here thinking about this, you know,

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Speaker 3: of my children didn't have had a little bit of

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Speaker 3: problem with Andrew, but no problems with Tyler. Haley was

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Speaker 3: a c section, but then Hannah that that was the

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Speaker 3: only problem I had encountered with the child being born.

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Speaker 3: And I'm still remembering that moment, and that's why this

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Speaker 3: really has hit home for me. It really has because

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Speaker 3: I made some decisions for my wife that I had

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Speaker 3: to make that I wasn't prepared to make, you know,

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Speaker 3: just in case. But I also look at this now

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Speaker 3: and realize that this child they tried to suction, they

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Speaker 3: tried to use traction to pull this baby. Yeah, his

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Speaker 3: shoulders are stuck. He's not coming out. And this woman,

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Speaker 3: this poor woman is in labor for hours, Joe, for

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Speaker 3: hours and hours, and the baby gets stuck. At eight

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Speaker 3: forty pm. They know the time the baby gets stuck.

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Speaker 3: Eight forty pm. That's when the trauma begins. They meaning

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Speaker 3: the nurses and everything're like, we need to do an

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Speaker 3: emergency C section. Doctor didn't do it. Kept pulling, kept pulling,

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Speaker 3: kept using suction, was using traction rather, what is traction

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Speaker 3: on the head of a baby?

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Speaker 1: Well, would this methodology that you're referring to. They can

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Speaker 1: brace the head in a particular way so that they

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Speaker 1: can apply leverage into vaginal opening and literally pull. I

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Speaker 1: think that a lot of people think, you know, automatically,

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Speaker 1: when you think about traction, Okay, the first thing you

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Speaker 1: think about is when you're treating an adult that has

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Speaker 1: like a neck injury.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I'm thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you set up in traction in order to

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Speaker 1: elongate the spine. And that's generally from a manipulative standpoint,

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Speaker 1: And I mean that in the sense of manipulation of

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Speaker 1: spine and the musculatory of destructure and everything. A matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, one of the medical examiners I used to

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Speaker 1: work with, he's passed on now. He had he had

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Speaker 1: he suffered from gyon Bret syndrome, and he had all

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Speaker 1: kinds of muscle issues and those sorts of things. And

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Speaker 1: he would put himself in traction in his office every day,

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Speaker 1: and his doctor had urged him to do this, and

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Speaker 1: he would counterweight it with bags of water. And I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget this contraption has set up on his sofa

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Speaker 1: and it would literally elongate or pull his head. And

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Speaker 1: I never could understand the ration. And I was I

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Speaker 1: didn't have deep conversations with this man. He was very,

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Speaker 1: very formal person. I just saw it in there and

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Speaker 1: I asked him one time, what is that And he says,

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Speaker 1: that's traction for my gym beret. And I'm thinking, hmm,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. I didn't know you need attraction for gambret.

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Speaker 1: But whatever. But you're talking about when you apply when

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Speaker 1: you apply this kind of force to a baby that's

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Speaker 1: not even born yet. Okay, we always think about how

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Speaker 1: resilient little kids are, you know, they can take certain

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Speaker 1: types of force and trauma that we as adults can't.

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Speaker 1: But that tissue is so very fragile, Dave, and all

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Speaker 1: it takes is this kind of force being exerted over

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Speaker 1: a protracted period of time, which is what happened. And Dave,

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you for our listeners that don't know,

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Speaker 1: she applied so much for us for such a long

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Speaker 1: period of time that she actually wound up to capitate

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Speaker 1: this child. Do you remember, Dave, I know I do vividly.

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Speaker 1: When your newborn is swaddled for the first time and

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Speaker 1: they hand that child to you. First off, you have

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Speaker 1: this feeling that you're insufficient to the task, even though

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Speaker 1: people have been doing this for thousands of thousands of years.

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Speaker 1: You think you're the one person in all of human

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Speaker 1: history that's not going to be able to do this.

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Speaker 1: And it's a real fear. It's a real fear, particularly

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Speaker 1: I think for men in particularly because we can be

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Speaker 1: really clumsy.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes I was going to drop Andrew, that was

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Speaker 3: my biggest football or big he was. He was almost

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Speaker 3: ten pounds and he's huge, and it was like I

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Speaker 3: kept thinking, if I drop him, what happens? You know

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Speaker 3: exactly Why couldn't I get that out of my head?

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Speaker 1: And it's not terrified and it's terrifil I'm just putting

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Speaker 1: them in the car to bring them home. It was

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Speaker 1: for me, you know. But the joy that is kind

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Speaker 1: of it's one of those moments. It's a spiritual moment.

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Speaker 1: I would say. My wife always says that when her

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Speaker 1: children have been born, she knows that God was present

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Speaker 1: in the room. That's what she's always said. And when

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Speaker 1: that child is handed over to you and you embrace

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Speaker 1: that child, I get chills just speaking about it right now,

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Speaker 1: that precious moment does And Dave, it's my understanding if

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Speaker 1: and I might be misremembering, but it's it is true

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Speaker 1: that they were not allowed to hold this baby immediately, no,

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Speaker 1: and that that's where this thing kind of really goes

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Speaker 1: off the rails.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 3: You're right, it goes off the wheels fairly early on.

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Speaker 3: But here's the deception, and here's the Okay, she's in

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Speaker 3: labor for a number of hours, the shoulders are stuck,

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Speaker 3: and they say, okay, we're going to have to do

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Speaker 3: an emergency sea section. So hours after labor begins, they

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Speaker 3: wheel her upstairs to do this emergency sea section. As

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Speaker 3: Joe told you just a minute ago, the baby was decapitated.

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Speaker 3: They actually pulled the baby's trunk or the body without

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Speaker 3: the head by sea section, yep, and had her. She

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Speaker 3: had to give birth to the baby's head. Yeah, Now

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Speaker 3: they didn't. The parents don't know what's going on. They

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Speaker 3: don't have a clue because these are kids. Yeah they're

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Speaker 3: young in my mind. Yeah, well yeah and they are,

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Speaker 3: but you know what, they don't know what to expect. Look,

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Speaker 3: the doctor's there, they're doing a C section. You don't

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Speaker 3: know what all's going on, because you know, you know

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Speaker 3: what you're told. And so as they're doing these things

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Speaker 3: and they get the they then take the baby. The

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Speaker 3: parents don't know the baby is decapitated. Now they are

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Speaker 3: told the baby didn't live. And the nurses or the staff,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna say staff. I don't want to impugne anybody.

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Speaker 3: I don't know who did this. I don't know, but

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Speaker 3: I know that this couple wanted to hold their baby,

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Speaker 3: dead or not. We want to hold our baby. That's

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Speaker 3: our baby. We've already got a name for this baby.

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Speaker 3: It's Trevian Isaiah. You know this is myr son. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna and so the staff then wrapped this baby's body

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Speaker 3: and head in such a way that they placed the

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Speaker 3: head on top of the body and wrapped it like

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Speaker 3: you would swaddow a baby, but wrapped it tighter around

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Speaker 3: the head so they could pass it off as a

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Speaker 3: natural death at birth, that there was nothing wrong, just

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Speaker 3: the baby died at birth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now I go back to my.

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Speaker 3: Fear of holding you know, my son Andrew when he

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Speaker 3: was born, and I'm thinking they were probably the same way,

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Speaker 3: even though they know the baby is dead, but they're

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Speaker 3: thinking the baby's still born. You know that they're thinking

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Speaker 3: something along those lines has transpired. They're grieving, they're exhausted,

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Speaker 3: their panic, they're all the horrible things that you must

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Speaker 3: go through at that moment I cannot imagine. And they're

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Speaker 3: handed this baby as if there's no more damage to

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Speaker 3: look at. They were lied to, They were cheated and

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Speaker 3: lied to by everybody involved. How do you hold a

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Speaker 3: baby's head onto.

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Speaker 1: How do you know? How do you fix the body

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Speaker 1: to the point where you feel comfortable enough as a clinician,

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Speaker 1: and clinician is very broad term to mean anybody who

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Speaker 1: had a hand in this. You feel comfortable enough to

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Speaker 1: hand the deep, decay appetated body of an infant. But

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Speaker 1: yet the head has been placed and secured quote unquote

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Speaker 1: in a manner in which you feel secure enough that

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Speaker 1: the head I hate say this, is not going to

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Speaker 1: roll off and wind up in the floor or wind

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Speaker 1: up in mom's lap. Because I got to tell you, you know,

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Speaker 1: when my child was born, my children have been born,

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Speaker 1: I don't go to their toes to kiss their toes.

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Speaker 1: I'm kissing all over that forehead. When my son Isaac died,

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Speaker 1: I was holding him when he passed, and I kiss

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Speaker 1: that baby all over his face, you know. And it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things I'm telling you. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those things as parent that you it's almost like it's

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Speaker 1: confirmatory to me it is all right, being the father

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Speaker 1: of a child that passed away. I think that it's

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Speaker 1: just that touch you want to confirm that a child

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Speaker 1: has passed on, you know, and just opposite, I mean,

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Speaker 1: when a child is alive, you want to feel that

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Speaker 1: warmth that transfers from their body to your lips as

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Speaker 1: you're touching your lips to them. But Dave, if it

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Speaker 1: kind of a hero appears in all of this, because

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Speaker 1: if it had not been for the funeral home. In

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Speaker 1: this case, my friend, the family would have been none

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Speaker 1: the wiser. Can you imagine being a funeral director, you know,

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Speaker 1: after the family has called you and said, look, we

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Speaker 1: want to honor our child, have a service for the child,

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Speaker 1: and yes, and let me tell you how this works

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Speaker 1: in case folks are not aware. When someone passed away

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Speaker 1: to the hospital, it can be a baby or an adult.

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Speaker 1: They will fill out an entire death packet at the

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Speaker 1: hospital and when it's generally a social worker comes and

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Speaker 1: talks to the family to say what funeral home do

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Speaker 1: you want? Want to handle this? And the social worker

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Speaker 1: many times will reach out, you know, to the funeral home.

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Speaker 1: Of course, families reaching out at the same time too,

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Speaker 1: and then they will arrange for the body to be

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Speaker 1: picked up. Here's something that folks don't know. When babies die,

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Speaker 1: they pass away in the hospital. Did you know that

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Speaker 1: we have a little funeral homes in particularly have these

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Speaker 1: They have these little open boxes. I guess they're probably

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Speaker 1: about three feet now, it's probably not that, about two

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Speaker 1: feet by a foot and they're hinged and they have

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Speaker 1: a handle right in the center of it, and it

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Speaker 1: looks like a miniature casket almost, And what they will

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Speaker 1: do is they'll walk in to the morgue and they'll

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Speaker 1: open they'll open the top of this box and they

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Speaker 1: place the baby in the box. They cover the baby

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Speaker 1: in the sheet, and they transport the baby and no

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Speaker 1: one really knows what they have in the box. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's not like they walk in with a stretcher. They'll

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Speaker 1: just walk right back out, getting the funeral home vehicle

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Speaker 1: and off they go to the funeral home to preped body.

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Speaker 1: First time I ever saw one of those things, it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've seen a lot of ghastly things that

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Speaker 1: kind of center like a night gallery, you know, Rod's

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Speaker 1: Serling night Gallery. Kind of shiver up my spine because

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Speaker 1: it's got this kind of creepy old feel to it.

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Speaker 1: When you see these boxes, and they used to always

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Speaker 1: have these. But when the funeral home came to pick

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Speaker 1: up this child's body, I can only imagine that the

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Speaker 1: people in the hospital that we're thinking about this, they

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Speaker 1: were thinking, how in the world are we going to

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Speaker 1: explain this? Because now that body's out of our control.

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Speaker 1: That body's out of our control, you know what. That's

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Speaker 1: that's no different day than these cases that we have taught,

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Speaker 1: and we've had this discussion brother, where we've talked about

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Speaker 1: how perpetrators that kill individuals sometimes they will bury them

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Speaker 1: at their own home. They will retain the body so

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Speaker 1: that they always can guarantee that they have total and

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Speaker 1: complete control all over the body. And for me, that

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Speaker 1: pops in my mind with this where they're thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: my lord, you know, once once that threshold is called

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Speaker 1: is crossed, we no longer have control over these remains.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened. You know.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of interesting here because I've approached this

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Speaker 3: having experienced something now that I'm much more familiar with

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Speaker 3: the process of death at a hospital, And I look

382
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Speaker 3: at this young couple. They expected to go into the

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Speaker 3: hospital as too and come out with a family of

384
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Speaker 3: three and beginning their life together. And now they're faced

385
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Speaker 3: with all of these very fast decisions that have to

386
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Speaker 3: be made because and they're pushed on it. They want

387
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Speaker 3: to answers, they want to know what happened. They're told

388
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Speaker 3: by the hospital that they don't have a right to

389
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Speaker 3: a free autopsy. You know, they want to know what happened,

390
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Speaker 3: you know, why did my baby die? Why is my

391
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Speaker 3: son not going home with me, and the hospital is like, Noah,

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Speaker 3: you don't.

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Speaker 2: You don't have a right to know. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can pay for it if you want to pay

395
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Speaker 2: to have it done.

396
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Speaker 3: You have done. But just baby died. Babies died during birth.

397
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Speaker 3: It happened. Sorry, sorry, And so they're kind of bum

398
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Speaker 3: rushed out of the place now as this baby was

399
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Speaker 3: taken to the nursing the funeral home. And I'm so

400
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Speaker 3: glad you mentioned the heroic nature of this because had

401
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: it not been for the funeral home, nobody would have known.

402
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Speaker 3: The cover up would have been easy. And I'm gonna

403
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Speaker 3: be honest with you, I wonder how many times things

404
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: are done, you know, with a phone call and a

405
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: couple thousand dollars to somebody. Think about it, they could

406
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Speaker 3: have done a number of things that we and we

407
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: would have never known about this, but they were they

408
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: were told they had to pay for their own autopsy,

409
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Speaker 3: and after and then after they found out from the

410
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Speaker 3: nursing home that what had actually happened, you know, that

411
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Speaker 3: there was a decapitation. And that's where I was wondering

412
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Speaker 3: from your standpoint, from the what happens when look, I

413
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Speaker 3: get it, that baby dies naturally they're a still birth

414
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Speaker 3: something like that.

415
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Speaker 2: That's a.

416
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Speaker 3: That I don't I mean, as as horrible as that

417
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Speaker 3: would be, that would have to be seen as different

418
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Speaker 3: than a baby that is decapitated, right, it.

419
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Speaker 1: Would, it would. And I got to tell you with

420
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Speaker 1: a this is the interesting thing with and this would

421
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Speaker 1: be and the way the way clinicians will frame this,

422
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Speaker 1: and it's always made my teeth hurt every time I

423
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Speaker 1: hear this term. They would use the term medical misadventure,

424
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Speaker 1: and they throw that term around a lot. Well, it's

425
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Speaker 1: a medical misadventure. Oh well, you know, that's just the

426
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: way things are. Medical misadventure, medical misadventure. And I've worked

427
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: cases day with quote unquote medical misadventure where there was

428
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: where there's there was such shoddy work that was done

429
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: that it would be it would equate two for a

430
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Speaker 1: civilian in a civilian world outside And when I say civilian,

431
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: I mean when not talking about military, I'm talking about

432
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Speaker 1: an average an average person outside of the clinical environment.

433
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: You'd be charged with manslaughter at a baseline, right, Okay,

434
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: But yet they'll use that term medical misadventure many times.

435
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: And I can tell you that's probably how you know,

436
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: that's what they're thinking perhaps in this particular case, and yeah,

437
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: they had to. And well, let me educate you about

438
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: one more thing. I feel. I feel like I'm preaching

439
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: right now.

440
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: No questions I have about this.

441
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: Well, listen, if a child dies, there are so many.

442
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: First off, you want to know why did they die?

443
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: Because if the parents which we know this parent, these

444
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: parents had had gone through all of their prenatal meetings. Okay,

445
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: they've been being followed all these sorts of things, and

446
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: the days arriving, you know, they're all excited.

447
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: For all.

448
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: I know, they went through Lama's classes together. I have

449
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: no idea, but you have to be able to give

450
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: a scientific reason why this child died. I think in

451
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: most cases, even with still bursts, that as part and

452
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: parcel of the service that the hospital provides for, you know,

453
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: a birth. If the child dies, it's pretty standard for

454
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: them to do a hospital autopsy. Okay, you know it

455
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: truly is. And this idea that no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

456
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: you're not. But back to the medical misadventure, Dave, this

457
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: is actually a case that's reportable to the corner, right,

458
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking, asking, Yeah, yeah, it is.

459
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: And most of the time, still bursts were reportable to

460
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: the corner Medical Examiner. Most of them are. I mean,

461
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many still birth cases I've

462
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: taken report of over the phone. Now, I wouldn't go

463
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: to the hospital to I wouldn't go to the hospital

464
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: to examine a stillborn child, but it would still be

465
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: reportable to us. We'd write a report of okay, And

466
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: sometimes a baby would have a name. Sometimes a baby

467
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: would not have a name. It's a weird kind of

468
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: thing that happens. And when you think about this, this

469
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: ain't a still birth. This is not how you would

470
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: define a still birth. Okay. Now, if you've ever been

471
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: in a laboring delivery suite, you know that you know

472
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: there's monitors everywhere. Oh yeah, monitor the baby's heartbeat, all

473
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And this is I think what's

474
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: the big mystery right now is to know if they

475
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: had that fetal heart monitor going at that point in

476
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: tom And this will be a question that will come up,

477
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: at what point in time did that child to rest?

478
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: Because this is not a still birth. This is not

479
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: some kind of genetic thing that's going on where you

480
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: know the child is not going to be viable and

481
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: they die maybe in utero, which happens many times, and

482
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: the mother has to deliver. Those are very sad. That

483
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: is a classic still birth. This ain't no still birth, brother,

484
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: You're talking about a baby who's had his head removed

485
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: during delivery.

486
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: This is a traumatic death.

487
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Years ago, when I was working down in New Orleans,

488
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: I was working as a path assistant and as a

489
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: corner investigator and was working with this one physician and

490
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: he was rather in circles of forensic pathology. He was

491
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: nationally well known, and I never could understand why he

492
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: was working at our office. It's not that our office

493
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: was a bad place, it's the level of renown that

494
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: this individual had experienced prior to arrival at our office

495
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: was pretty significant. They had been a deputy Chief medical

496
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: Examiner in a major US city at one point in time,

497
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: but yet they landed at our office. So you always

498
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: have questions about that sort of thing. As it turned out,

499
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: this individual had made a stop in between their deputy

500
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 1: chief Medical Examiner position and our position in New Orleans.

501
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: They had stopped off at another office, and while at

502
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: that office, this forensic pathologist was tasked with trying to

503
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: understand could a baby sustain a fracture at a certain

504
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: age when falling from a certain height. The forensic pathologists

505
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: took it upon themselves to begin to conduct experiments, and

506
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: as a result of those experiments, a baby or baby's

507
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: were dropped from a variety of heights. And it just

508
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: so happened that this was witnessed by staff member who

509
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: reported them. When I found that out that this individual

510
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: had been involved in the so called experiments, I couldn't

511
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: believe that I was standing at the same table with

512
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 1: this individual doing post mortem examinations with them, because they

513
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: did wind up getting sued, they did wind up being

514
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: found liable, and the university that they were associated with

515
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: was sued as well. You know, it had only been

516
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: I guess at that time that was in the eighties,

517
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: It had only been I don't know, probably at that

518
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: time less than forty years earlier, when a group of

519
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: people were doing experiments on another group of people. It's

520
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: something that's so incredibly abhorrent and it runs contrary to

521
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: every single ideal that we hold up in the medical

522
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: legal community. And Dave, I got to tell you, brother,

523
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: if you thought the story the decapitation when it comes

524
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: to basic baby Isaiah is bad. This is what we meant.

525
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: It went from bad to worse, and now we have

526
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: new news that has burst on the horizon relative to

527
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: all of this.

528
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: As you know, they did file lawsuits. You know, in

529
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 3: this day and age, you're not going to get by

530
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: without somebody standing in the gap and saying something is

531
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: wrong here, and we're going to help you take care

532
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: of this. And that's what they did. Thankfully, somebody did

533
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 3: help parents provide well. They sued just about everybody involved.

534
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 3: But one thing they did, Joe, they got their own

535
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: autopsy done. Remember how I told you to the hospital

536
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 3: said they weren't entitled to a free autopsy. That was

537
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 3: the hospital's way of bullying them.

538
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: I think it was.

539
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: I concur with your assessment, brother, But.

540
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 3: They got an autopsy, they found it. And to be clear,

541
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 3: I asked you about this earlier during the review show

542
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: because I didn't know you could pay for an autopsy,

543
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I didn't really think about it because

544
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: I would just assume that if a body needs an autopsy,

545
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: it gets done, not that you actually have to fight

546
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: to have an autopsy done on your child. And that's

547
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: what they did. They paid to have it done. They

548
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: found a doctor, they would do it. Now, that was

549
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: the good news. The bad news is well again, remember

550
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: that this family did not hear from the doctor, the nurses,

551
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 3: or anybody at the hospital what had happened to their baby.

552
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: They didn't find that out. They found it out from

553
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 3: the nursing home, I mean not in the funeral home. So,

554
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 3: realizing that they were lied to, they went and hired

555
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: doctor Jackson Gates to perform an autopsy. Doctor Jackson Gates

556
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 3: does an autopsy and then, in a violation of every

557
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: thing I can imagine. I cannot think of one redeeming

558
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: thing to say about what he did with a videotape

559
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 3: of the autopsy.

560
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: You know, for years, this is okay, Just so that

561
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: we're clear on this. For years, I've had people that

562
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: would come to me and they would they would beg

563
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: to be able to attend an autopsy, just people that

564
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: are curious. I've got tons of medical student, nursing students,

565
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: and of course cops. Because autopsies are not something that

566
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: you normally get access to. First off, you have no

567
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: way of vetting the person that's going to come through

568
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: the door. You don't know who's going to show or

569
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: what they're what their true reason is. And nowadays, in particular,

570
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: you never know what the reason is. You know what

571
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean. You can't do anything in public without somebody

572
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: having a camera and their videotape. You could just be

573
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: having a regular everyday discussion with somebody and something that

574
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you say can be taken out of context. Well, I

575
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: got to tell you, it might wind up on social media.

576
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: And Dave, again, we have an example of somebody, a pathologist,

577
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: who felt like that it was a good idea to

578
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: do the post warnum examination on this precious child and

579
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: then display the body in an Instagram reel, an Instagram reel, Dave, Yeah,

580
00:37:52,080 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: pictures and video of this child's macerated body and display

581
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: so it's like.

582
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 3: And by the way, without the permission of the parents.

583
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: Now I could see if and I can't imagine a

584
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: parent doing this. But let's just say for the sake

585
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 3: of argument, that doctor Gates went to them and said, look,

586
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 3: there's some educational value. I would like to share some

587
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 3: of this autoposy with whoever, other professionals, whatever.

588
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: There might be some value in that.

589
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what it would be, but doctor Jackson

590
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 3: Gates doesn't bother to ask them permission to do anything.

591
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 3: He posts them on Instagram for all the world to see,

592
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 3: and that's how they found out about it.

593
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't like they.

594
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 3: Called for permission, Joe. Somebody saw it and said, hey,

595
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: what is this?

596
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: Well, you ought to have the good sense to understand

597
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: first off, that it doesn't You don't have to be

598
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: a board certified forensic pathologist to appreciate this. This is

599
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: going to blind up in a lawsuit. And I'm not

600
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: talking about the Instagram thing, which obviously does. However, the

601
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: death of this baby at this hospital is going to

602
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: wind up in litigation. In what universe have you decided

603
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: that this is a good idea that I should take

604
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: imagery of this baby and display it for the entire world.

605
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: Particularly that's bad enough, but particularly understanding the fact that

606
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: this is going.

607
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: To go to court.

608
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: Okay, it's going to go to court. I can you know,

609
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: dollars to donuts, I bet you that it's going to

610
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: go to court, which it's going to and you're going

611
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: to You've so not only not only are you compromising

612
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: the not only are these poor parents being subjected to

613
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: this Emotionally, what happened to their baby? What they eventually

614
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: found out with the decapitation during birth. And not only

615
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: are you humiliating them further because this is the ultimate

616
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: and humiliation by displaying the desecrated remains of their baby,

617
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: now you're putting them at risk for what's going to

618
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: happen in the courts later on, you know, by displaying

619
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: the images. You know, because any any defense attorney worth

620
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: their you know, worth their weight, is going to be

621
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: questioning this imagery that's put up and they'll ask questions.

622
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: They'll say, well, you know, our defendant here was just

623
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: trying to do their job at the hospital as an

624
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: obg y N. Now you've hired this person that's going

625
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: to display this for the whole world. It's a mockery,

626
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, and now our client can't be treated fairly

627
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: by the courts. You see how this works, and so

628
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: your inability to be able to control your actions relative

629
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: to social media and what's going to happen, you know.

630
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope, against hope that there is some

631
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: you can never replace a child period and as you

632
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: as we always say on the show, there's no such

633
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: thing as closure. But I hope that the reward that

634
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: is going to drop into the lap of this family.

635
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about just monetarily, but receiving some

636
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: kind of satisfaction from the courts is going to go

637
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: at least some small way in trying to heal them

638
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: in some level so that maybe they'll be brave enough

639
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: to have another child at some point in time. But

640
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, brother, if this was me, it

641
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: would put me so off of wanting to bring new

642
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: life into this world. By this experience, yeah, I would

643
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: really question my reality.

644
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: Man.

645
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 3: They did sue everybody involved, including doctor Gates. Now, the

646
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: reason we're doing the show update today is because the

647
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: trial the jury has made an announcement about the lawsuit

648
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: about what doctor Gates did. He's the one that did

649
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: the autopsy and put the stuff on social media. I

650
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 3: want to read you the jury's ruling. The jury find

651
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: that for intentional infliction of emotional distress, invasion of privacy

652
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 3: through intrusion into private affairs, and fraud, defendant Jackson Lgates, MD,

653
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 3: and Gates Rapid Diagnostic Laboratory of Atlanta, doing business as

654
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: Medical Diagnostic Choices will pay two million dollars in compensatory

655
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 3: damages to Jessica Ross and Trevion Isaiah Taylor Senior. That

656
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: was the jury's ruling. The jury also awarded an additional

657
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars impunitive damages. That's the

658
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 3: maximum amount allowed, so two and a quarter million. That

659
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: will be paid, hopefully without argument, by the insurance company

660
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: that doctor Gates has. I'm sure he has one. They

661
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 3: start with that.

662
00:42:58,480 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: Now.

663
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: I want to be clear on this because this is

664
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 3: not over. This is just doctor Gates putting the video,

665
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 3: which that's you know what, Joe, I cannot imagine the

666
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: You can get past a lot of things, you know.

667
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 3: You can look at it and go they did they

668
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: may you know, even if I believe they were wrong

669
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 3: and what happened was a bad outcome and they deserve

670
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: to you can get past that by saying they didn't

671
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 3: intentionally kill my child. That wasn't their game plan. They

672
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 3: weren't trying to kill this baby. The baby died by

673
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: their actions, but that wasn't their intent. You could get

674
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: by that at some point, maybe, but you can never

675
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 3: get past the fact that an adult doctor that you're

676
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: paying to give you the truth about what happened to

677
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 3: your child violated your trust. Emotional damage of putting your

678
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 3: baby up for all the world to see something so private,

679
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 3: something so painful. They'll never get a that there's no closure.

680
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: And you know, you know what they say the Internet,

681
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: it lives forever. It lives forever. So whoever was out

682
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: there that happened to see this before it was taken down,

683
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: they've got video captures of this now, Dave, I guarantee

684
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: you as sure as the sun is going to rise

685
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: in the east tomorrow morning, I guarantee you that those

686
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: images are floating around out there. What you know, who

687
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: does the family see about that? Who do they see

688
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: about it? Please tell me? And I I'm you know,

689
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: I don't mean you to give me an answer for that.

690
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: But who do you go and complain to about that?

691
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: There is nobody you can complain to about that. This

692
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: is a you know, I would like to call this

693
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: a series of unfortunate instances in their life, But Dave,

694
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: some of this stuff, all the way from the birth

695
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: to the post wartem circumstances, there is and certainly with

696
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: the delivery. I don't think that their specific content there,

697
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: but there are decisions that could have been made that

698
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: would have had a better outcome than what we're seeing

699
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: right now, because I got to tell you, David, there

700
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: is not enough money in this old world to heal

701
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: the broken hearts of these parents. May rest in peace.

702
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scotten Morgan and this is body Backs