Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Okay, you guys today, thank you for
Speaker 1: joining us on Rus Charlotte. We have an incredible guest,
Speaker 1: Ben Platt. He is almost an Egot winner. He has
Speaker 1: a Tony, an Emmy and a Grammy, everything but the Oscar,
Speaker 1: which I have every faith he will one day get.
Speaker 1: You would know him from Dear Evan Hansen and also
Speaker 1: Pitch Perfect he plays Benji and also he was on
Speaker 1: the Politician Ryan Murphy series. I mean, he is incredible.
Speaker 1: And he has this unbelievable concert at Radio City Music
Speaker 1: Hall where he basically says that he's a Charlotte and
Speaker 1: then he sings a song that he wrote about it.
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk to him about that and
Speaker 2: so much more.
Speaker 1: Here is the incredible Ben Platte day.
Speaker 3: It is very exciting.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1: And we have a bunch of similarities or connections though
Speaker 1: I have never officially met Ben, but what I have
Speaker 1: just start with though, and I don't know if you
Speaker 1: were aware of this, tell me so I fly a lot,
Speaker 1: fly around a lot, and we had one season of
Speaker 1: the show and just like that where it was during
Speaker 1: the school year, so I was literally flying to LA
Speaker 1: every weekend to see my kids. It was hard and
Speaker 1: I was deliriously tired. So one flight, I'm on the
Speaker 1: flight and there were some adorable young men on this flight.
Speaker 2: I was like, they seem familiar, but.
Speaker 1: I was so tired, and we take the whole flight.
Speaker 1: There's some chatting going on. There's possibly a mother or
Speaker 1: a mother in law. To me, there's some chatting, there's
Speaker 1: some boisterousness. I'm like, I don't know who they are,
Speaker 1: but they're super interesting.
Speaker 2: We get off and I'm like, oh, my god, I
Speaker 2: think that's been.
Speaker 3: Oh it was me, I think so and your husband. Yes,
Speaker 3: I mean that you didn't notice me.
Speaker 4: No, I would have bothered you.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad because I was so mortified but they
Speaker 1: didn't say hi to you.
Speaker 4: I would have made you make a video for my
Speaker 4: sister's Thank God and Heaven.
Speaker 1: Because I thought to myself, like, I mean I was
Speaker 1: in my like do not look at me phase, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I might have had a hat on.
Speaker 1: I was in like my.
Speaker 4: Planes the most like it doesn't gifying zone to be
Speaker 4: a person zone.
Speaker 1: Because later on I felt so bad because I thought
Speaker 1: that super adorable concert where you literally say that you
Speaker 1: are a.
Speaker 4: Charlotte, It's true, I do.
Speaker 1: Everyone and their brother sent to me.
Speaker 3: I wrote a whole song I don't tell us about it.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean I very much identified as Charlotte,
Speaker 4: always have. I grew up with two sisters, as I said,
Speaker 4: and they loved the show and exposed me to the show,
Speaker 4: and I've most of the show memorized. So I just
Speaker 4: it's very formative to me as as a gay person
Speaker 4: and a New York person. So I also from a
Speaker 4: Jewish family, and very much the m O culturally, as
Speaker 4: obviously Charlotte becomes is you know, you got to find
Speaker 4: your find your husband and settle down and buy the china,
Speaker 4: and you know, it's all about like making a home
Speaker 4: and so for me and dating, like even prematurely, that
Speaker 4: was very much my m O and so I very
Speaker 4: much consider myself a Charlotte. So I wrote this song
Speaker 4: called Share Your Address that's on my first album. That's
Speaker 4: about kind of jumping in really quickly as soon as
Speaker 4: you like someone after the first couple of dates. And
Speaker 4: I always say that it's very much inspired.
Speaker 1: By Charles ah which I love so much, and it's
Speaker 1: so beautiful in the concert, it's so so beautiful, and
Speaker 1: people kept sending to me and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is adorable. It's before I had the podcast.
Speaker 3: But then I was like, yes, this, we need to
Speaker 3: have him on the podcast.
Speaker 4: As soon as I heard this was the thing. Yay,
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you're doing this. By the way, someone
Speaker 4: loves the show and watches it before I go to sleep.
Speaker 4: It's nice to have someone to chat about it with.
Speaker 1: I do find this whole new. It's really amazing to
Speaker 1: have lasted this long in terms of the show being
Speaker 1: culturally discussed at all. And then obviously we got to
Speaker 1: go back and do it and just like that. And
Speaker 1: then they came to me while we were doing it
Speaker 1: just like that, asked me if I wanted to do
Speaker 1: the podcast. I had had other chances to do a
Speaker 1: rewatch podcast, and I hadn't.
Speaker 2: I hadn't been ready in a way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: It seems weird in a certain way to look back
Speaker 1: and kind of live in the past, like I didn't
Speaker 1: want to live in the past.
Speaker 2: Of course, But I had also never rewatched the show.
Speaker 1: And in my mind, of course I love the show.
Speaker 1: I always love the show. Everyone knows I love the show,
Speaker 1: but when I watch it, I'm blown away by how
Speaker 1: good it is.
Speaker 4: It's really good and whatever you do, it's really good.
Speaker 3: Thank God, right, thank God.
Speaker 1: Like it's such a gift as an actor to just
Speaker 1: luck in, like literally fall into a situation where everybody
Speaker 1: is trying to do something new and everybody is committed,
Speaker 1: and everyone cares so much, and our writers were so
Speaker 1: amazing and still are and you know, so many different things.
Speaker 1: So I'm so lucky that I did say yes. I'm
Speaker 1: so thankful that I did say yes.
Speaker 4: And I so understand that having to have the right
Speaker 4: amount of time between to like live your life and
Speaker 4: be a person and separate and then come back to
Speaker 4: it fresh and like I so understand like that you
Speaker 4: needed to wait till the right moment to raise it.
Speaker 1: And now it's very therapeutic, really, I would imagine, right,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting and sometimes I remember nothing, like this
Speaker 1: entire episode was new to you, totally fresh.
Speaker 4: At way I watch it, does it put you back
Speaker 4: on the day, Like do you think of do you
Speaker 4: get the flashes of like work days and little.
Speaker 1: Flashes, because that is the way actors remember things. I
Speaker 1: remember like I was so hot that day, melting exactly.
Speaker 1: I can see me melting. I can I'm going to
Speaker 1: see weird details that no one else would see or whatever.
Speaker 1: I I don't even think I do. I gues I
Speaker 1: did have flashbacks. I'm remembering now. I'm remembering now. The
Speaker 1: funny thing is that sometimes, like for instance, I do
Speaker 1: people over the years. It's always interesting to see what
Speaker 1: people remember and talk to you about, right, And people
Speaker 1: would talk to me about the S and M Club,
Speaker 1: and I'm always like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: This is apparently what I was talking about.
Speaker 2: Yes, the La la de lure, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Good job. I doubt that I know, and I don't.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 1: I have no memory of this at all, no memory
Speaker 1: of this at all, except that there is there's a
Speaker 1: picture of the cast, and I don't know where we are,
Speaker 1: possibly at a like a premiere party, and my hair
Speaker 1: is kinked. You know, it's scary, Okay, it's.
Speaker 3: Star Do you love it?
Speaker 4: Of course? And I just love that that's her interpretation
Speaker 4: of the assignment when she shows up. I know Charlotte
Speaker 4: is true to Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Always Charlotte is true to Charlotte.
Speaker 4: We all four of them are. Also, why they're so
Speaker 4: iconic and why everybody sees themselves in them is that
Speaker 4: they're very true to their you know, their centers. Obviously,
Speaker 4: they all change and experience things, but they have like
Speaker 4: an id each of them that like stays very consistent,
Speaker 4: and I feel like real people.
Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent. I agree with one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: There are people in the world who do not agree.
Speaker 4: Well with us. They can come to me, actually thought
Speaker 4: do not, absolutely not.
Speaker 3: I love that man.
Speaker 1: Thank you for putting yourself out there for us.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the thing, okay, here we are, we're back.
Speaker 4: Should we go back and discuss Oh my God, of course.
Speaker 1: Okay great? Or should we? I just want to just
Speaker 1: briefly touch on. So you're happily married.
Speaker 4: I'm happily married. I want to tell the story I
Speaker 4: found my harry Golden Blat.
Speaker 1: How did you find your harry Golden Blat?
Speaker 4: Well, we met. His name is Noa Galvin. He's very
Speaker 4: talented actor and writer and singer and performer. And he
Speaker 4: and I met when we were like nineteen doing making
Speaker 4: like a web series, like a comedy web series and
Speaker 4: never saw the light of day.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my god.
Speaker 4: We met really early on wo our mutual friends who
Speaker 4: we made this film Theeder Camp with. They were one
Speaker 4: of the first things that we all made together was
Speaker 4: this web series. They invited me in and I met
Speaker 4: Noah doing like improv with him, and we had a
Speaker 4: talent crushes immediately on each other. And then we started,
Speaker 4: you know, working together in the theater community, like workshopping musicals
Speaker 4: and stuff, and we started dating like right away when
Speaker 4: we were like twenty years old. Wow. And I like
Speaker 4: really panicked and sort of freaked out quickly, and for
Speaker 4: reasons that I don't think I understood at the time.
Speaker 4: At the time, I sort of expressed it like, oh,
Speaker 4: like I think we're best for I think this is
Speaker 4: a friendship. I think this is like a lifelong friendship,
Speaker 4: and I don't want to ruin that by dating. And
Speaker 4: I don't think I understood at such a young age
Speaker 4: that like that is one and the same.
Speaker 1: But nobody when they're young understanding.
Speaker 4: No I thought those were like totally different categories, right,
Speaker 4: So you.
Speaker 1: Were looking for the heat, that's right, right.
Speaker 4: And so I sent him a text message that was
Speaker 4: so long that it has an arrow at the bottom
Speaker 4: to go to the rest of the text message, which
Speaker 4: wasn't the nicest way to do it. But he so
Speaker 4: he was mad at me for a little while, but
Speaker 4: then he was bb became friends and he was very patient,
Speaker 4: and we were friends for like five six years wow.
Speaker 4: And then sort of had like a maturing turning point,
Speaker 4: mostly on my end of coming to my senses and realizing,
Speaker 4: you know, this was the sort of greatest person that
Speaker 4: I know has been in front of me the whole time,
Speaker 4: and he graciously allowed me to come to that realization.
Speaker 4: But we really gave both of us a chance to
Speaker 4: like sow some oats, which I really appreciate. I'm glad
Speaker 4: we didn't get together right away and we were able
Speaker 4: to come a little bit more fully formed. And we've
Speaker 4: been married almost a year. Will September first will be
Speaker 4: our first amazing.
Speaker 1: But then, where's the Durham van Hanson?
Speaker 4: So the internet list to tell me that we met
Speaker 4: doing Derevin Hanson, which is not true, got it? We
Speaker 4: already done each other, yes, always for several years. When
Speaker 4: I was doing Iman handsOn, I originated the part on
Speaker 4: Broadway and they were looking for a replacement, and they
Speaker 4: obviously found Noah because Noah was very talented, and I
Speaker 4: was just like, oh, I loved him. He's amazing. I
Speaker 4: co signed. That's amazing. So we already had a friendship
Speaker 4: and I was able to you know, help him, you know,
Speaker 4: acclimate to like that really intense part and at least
Speaker 4: make the transition as easy as it could be. But yeah,
Speaker 4: that was like chapter three or four in.
Speaker 1: Our That's amazing. That's amazing. I love that story so much,
Speaker 1: and I love I do think that there's just so
Speaker 1: many different elements of First of all, you know, meeting
Speaker 1: when you're nineteen, I mean, that's kind of insane totally.
Speaker 1: So it's amazing that you were able to navigate that
Speaker 1: in a way and both have patience or whatever. It
Speaker 1: took time and patience and growth to come to the
Speaker 1: point where you did realize and you hadn't burn that bridge.
Speaker 4: It was Yeah, I'm very grateful to the universe that,
Speaker 4: like I, for whatever reason, wasn't ready to deal with
Speaker 4: it and so kind of blew it up for a moment,
Speaker 4: and also grateful to him that he stuck with it.
Speaker 1: And amazing congratulations. It seems definitely like we could use
Speaker 1: the word for shared.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's for shared.
Speaker 1: Love it, that's right, love it so so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that story, and I think it's also funny.
Speaker 1: I love to correct things that are wrong out there
Speaker 1: because people goma.
Speaker 2: On or something, and then it becomes like it's real.
Speaker 4: But it's nice in the narrative. Yeah, right, and I
Speaker 4: get it. It's such a fun that's such a fun story.
Speaker 4: But like, we met doing Darren Hanson, and it's like
Speaker 4: we both played Evan Hanson, but it's more boring to
Speaker 4: be like, actually, we had done a workshop of a
Speaker 4: musical called Alice by Heart, and we had also made
Speaker 4: a web sketch together and gone to Vastar and stuff.
Speaker 4: But but yeah, I love it. We still did both
Speaker 4: Lavon Hanson, so.
Speaker 1: That's of course, of course, and that's a funny. It's
Speaker 1: a funny, like, yeah, it's a quirky little thing. So
Speaker 1: a year married, a year married, what you thought it
Speaker 1: would be?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think the bigger change for me,
Speaker 4: especially because I've known him for so long, was the cohabitating,
Speaker 4: like we're moving in and really like building a home
Speaker 4: together for the first time.
Speaker 1: It's a very Charlotte type of thing. Exactly how has
Speaker 1: it panned out?
Speaker 4: Really really well. He's he's very aesthetically gifted, and that's
Speaker 4: very much his strong suit, which is not mine. I'm
Speaker 4: very good at cleanliness and organization, nice and like logistics
Speaker 4: and sort of executing, and he's a good ideas man.
Speaker 4: So it's a nice combo. But because we had already
Speaker 4: done that and started living together for like almost a
Speaker 4: year by the time we got married, I think the
Speaker 4: marriage part was sort of just like, of course, like
Speaker 4: this is naturally what we want to do next and
Speaker 4: what feels right, and we didn't sort of come home
Speaker 4: the next morning and think like, oh now everything is different,
Speaker 4: We've changed everything. We just kind of watched Pop Star Academy.
Speaker 1: And love it. The funny thing about Charlotte's whole thing
Speaker 1: because people do talk a lot about the China, because
Speaker 1: the China, you know, when when she marries Kyle and
Speaker 1: we're in Bergdorf and I flipped that plate over. But
Speaker 1: also even in the first season, I go out with
Speaker 1: Carrie's discarded man and he doesn't like my China taste,
Speaker 1: and I'm like out.
Speaker 4: But sometimes if you know, you.
Speaker 1: Know if you know, you know, and whatever way you
Speaker 1: find out, whatever meaningful thing in your mind that is.
Speaker 1: I guess that's important to me. I do think like, wow, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: it's very pick.
Speaker 4: But she is, but she is and she and I
Speaker 4: love that with Harry they had to tryal and tribulate
Speaker 4: and come back to the growth on their own time.
Speaker 1: And there's growth in Charlotte that is super important. But
Speaker 1: the thing that was funny about it in my mind,
Speaker 1: and this is again like an actor type of a thing.
Speaker 1: So when she was married to Kyle obviously sorry, what's
Speaker 1: his name, Trey, it's so so messy in my mind
Speaker 1: at this point that I.
Speaker 4: Can did you have a nice experience working with him?
Speaker 4: It's a dream, Okay, He's wonderful on the show.
Speaker 1: He's amazing. Love the character, I know, amazing, right and complicated.
Speaker 4: Very very yes, fairly human and you know, heartbreaking and
Speaker 4: great and funny.
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten to that part of the rewatch. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to it because I do feel like I
Speaker 1: need to work.
Speaker 2: Some feelings out.
Speaker 1: But what I remember is, of course, you know, the
Speaker 1: thematic is that this is exactly what she was looking for.
Speaker 1: Everything looks perfect on the outside, but it's not perfect
Speaker 1: on the inside, and that is her growth is that
Speaker 1: that's not going to work out, sadly, and that then
Speaker 1: she's going to expect and and grow herself inside and realize, no,
Speaker 1: this person who doesn't look anything like what she thought
Speaker 1: she wanted is in fact what she really wants on
Speaker 1: the inside. And it has worked out to be, thank god,
Speaker 1: a happy relationship and marriage in the Sex and the
Speaker 1: City universe, exactly the only one, as he likes to say,
Speaker 1: the last man's standing.
Speaker 3: It's true, I know, and I'm so happy.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for her and for him earned. It
Speaker 1: does feel earned, that's well put. When we came back
Speaker 1: to film, and just like that, it was a lot right.
Speaker 1: It was right after COVID. We were we had to
Speaker 1: get the sets out of storage and or rebuild them
Speaker 1: depending on the situation, and.
Speaker 4: Recreate which Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2: So much so.
Speaker 1: But yet our children had grown up, right, so they
Speaker 1: were trying to update. They were like, how can we update?
Speaker 1: How can we change in a way that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So the first day I was the first.
Speaker 4: Person to work, what was the first thing you shot?
Speaker 1: Basically a day of crying because Big has died.
Speaker 3: Whoa with the children who are now one day one. Yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 1: I had to go to work at four thirty in
Speaker 1: the morning. I hadn't been to work in a while
Speaker 1: because of COVID, right, And.
Speaker 4: Sometimes the first week is a wash because you're just
Speaker 4: like getting your bearings and your yess so unfair. I
Speaker 4: know I would never have.
Speaker 3: Known, thank you.
Speaker 1: They expect a lot of me, okay, but Michael Patrick
Speaker 1: was directing, so there's an ease in that. But I
Speaker 1: had my new children, who we you know, we've done
Speaker 1: a read through.
Speaker 4: We do.
Speaker 1: We were old school like that, so we've done that.
Speaker 1: I had my new dog, Myrtle. Love her so much.
Speaker 1: She's a she. I feel like I can say this now.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to keep this quiet. She's a she,
Speaker 1: so I often just refer to her by her character name,
Speaker 1: but she is a she, Myrtle. I love her so passionately,
Speaker 1: and I might start to cry.
Speaker 3: She's eight, Okay, I just.
Speaker 4: We just lost our dog in the spring. His name
Speaker 4: was George. Here's Steorge.
Speaker 3: Oh, George is beautiful.
Speaker 1: George is beautiful. Let's not cry about the dogs, because
Speaker 1: really it could happen. So I'm just going to close
Speaker 1: my eyes for a second and talk about being at work,
Speaker 1: going back to work. I'm all so excited, but also
Speaker 1: so nervous. I have so many important scenes I have
Speaker 1: to basically cry for like three episodes. When we first
Speaker 1: came back, there was a lot of Charlotte crying. And
Speaker 1: I can do that, but it was still a lot.
Speaker 1: So I go, I go into Charlotte set. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to see the things that I recognize. You know,
Speaker 1: she has that beautiful china cabinet with all of her china,
Speaker 1: and we know this is important to Charlotte. Then there's
Speaker 1: this little vestibule where you're walking from the dining room
Speaker 1: into the kitchen, and it's where there's like kind of
Speaker 1: desks on either side, and they had decided that this
Speaker 1: was the children's area and that the children were messy.
Speaker 1: So it was like if like someone's bedroom exploded into
Speaker 1: a very small area. And I was like, you guys,
Speaker 1: whoa what is this? Are you not finished? You know,
Speaker 1: like saying up like we could see this in the shot.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, no, that's how it is, because you
Speaker 1: know the kids are messy. I'm like, but I'm still Charlotte.
Speaker 4: True.
Speaker 1: They can't be this messy, like what on earth? And
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, so this whole conversation has to happen,
Speaker 1: and I'm like anxious, so I'm like, no, like this
Speaker 1: they did.
Speaker 4: They take the feedback?
Speaker 2: They did? Good God, yes, thanks God.
Speaker 4: That's what makes it feel real after all these years.
Speaker 4: Like Sarah Jessica talks about this too, just like you
Speaker 4: guys take all of the details very seriously, and what
Speaker 4: everyone do you know these women really well?
Speaker 1: So it's just like and everyone on the set also
Speaker 1: takes all these details really seriously. So it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: But what we we had to come to like a
Speaker 1: happy medium of it, right, because yes, they are teenagers right.
Speaker 4: Tween teams, you're right behind them exactly.
Speaker 1: And also I wouldn't want them to be trying to
Speaker 1: be doing better, right. So also in their bedroom we
Speaker 1: had like Lilies I'd be really neat and Rose slush
Speaker 1: rock because she wasn't yet not be really neat, right,
Speaker 1: So it was all very interesting. But anyway, you reminded
Speaker 1: me of that with the china, because this really the
Speaker 1: china stands out to people about Charlotte.
Speaker 4: It's like emblematic because she's also like very I don't know,
Speaker 4: optimistic and elegant and naive, and it sort of like
Speaker 4: symbolizes all of that. And that's also a really hard
Speaker 4: thing to play, just to like guss you up for
Speaker 4: a second, to play somebody that's so coming from such
Speaker 4: a place of earnestness, as someone who plays a lot
Speaker 4: of characters that are very earnest and is a very
Speaker 4: earnest person that people have don't have a lot of,
Speaker 4: Like they don't have a lot of like a very
Speaker 4: large tank for that, Like it fills up quickly for them.
Speaker 4: So I think the fact that you made her feel
Speaker 4: like a real person and sustained the character for so
Speaker 4: long and let us like go on the journey with
Speaker 4: her and lived in that space so consistently, it's like
Speaker 4: a really challenging, impressive thing today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Ben.
Speaker 1: Isn't that an interesting thing about society that people are
Speaker 1: so funny about kind of like earnest, open hearted characters.
Speaker 4: I know, it's one of my least favorite cultural shifts.
Speaker 4: I would say everything is cringe unless there's an apathy
Speaker 4: to it.
Speaker 2: I know it makes me want to cry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not the best.
Speaker 1: And I feel like people do really really love Charlotte,
Speaker 1: you know I do.
Speaker 2: I'm glad and I love you and your characters.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you have to just keep on,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And even if people want
Speaker 1: to be critical and say like cringe, cringe, this, cringe whatever,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, or she's not believable or whatever it
Speaker 1: is that they say, you just have to hang on
Speaker 1: and just do it anyway, because if it's.
Speaker 4: Coming from a place of love and optimism, there's no
Speaker 4: there's no downside, right, It's just a ad positive to
Speaker 4: the world. Yes, thank you, ye, yeah, of.
Speaker 1: Course that's very healing conversation for me to have.
Speaker 2: True at this time.
Speaker 4: It's true. That's why identify with her so much, asked
Speaker 4: my husband. I'm very earnest in our home.
Speaker 1: I love it. I think you have permission to be
Speaker 1: earnest anywhere you want to be earnest, you know. And
Speaker 1: I want to say, also, this is going to be
Speaker 1: on whatever it's gonna air, it drops after and just
Speaker 1: like that is finished.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, the whole thing will be done. I mean,
Speaker 4: I only have the last two to see, so I
Speaker 4: don't I don't, I don't want to hear. But I'm
Speaker 4: very anxious, too, very anxious to see.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I haven't seen either. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's hard.
Speaker 3: It's hard.
Speaker 4: It's a big chapter, it.
Speaker 1: Is, and it's a bit of a shock, you know.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to keep myself together.
Speaker 4: I understand. Yes, I have this portrait in my family's
Speaker 4: house of this clown, this like crying clown that was
Speaker 4: in my grandparents' house because you know, the whole familiarity
Speaker 4: is yes, so like the end of every show because
Speaker 4: I you know, since I've been doing this since I
Speaker 4: was a kid. So every time a shoot finishes, or
Speaker 4: especially when you're doing a musical for like, yeah, so
Speaker 4: intense and you're like breaking with a family every time,
Speaker 4: it's like it's a whole uh, whole thing. It's like
Speaker 4: a loss in a way.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: The good news with this is that we have already.
Speaker 1: I thought we were done a few times, and the
Speaker 1: joy of life is that we're never done in life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, So everyone.
Speaker 1: Was like, what's it like to get back together? Well,
Speaker 1: we were getting back together on.
Speaker 2: The set, but we have been together the whole time.
Speaker 3: Ye friendships, Yeah, life, thank god, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: It's very special.
Speaker 1: The pain is that I love making what we make,
Speaker 1: so it's sad not to make what we make, of course,
Speaker 1: like I would make whatever we wanted to make with
Speaker 1: these people until I die.
Speaker 2: Of course, if I was given that choice.
Speaker 4: When you find a happy, like fulfilling environment you never
Speaker 4: wanted to know and far between.
Speaker 1: It is true, as much as everyone tries to be
Speaker 1: that in our industry, it's not always going to Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I mean, you can have a great time and
Speaker 1: it cannot turn out well, or.
Speaker 4: You can make something incredible that everybody loves and it
Speaker 4: was a miserable.
Speaker 1: Experience exactly, which often is the case.
Speaker 3: I find right like it's weird find.
Speaker 1: The definitely definitely. Anyway, thank you, thank you. We're having
Speaker 1: some therapy on the podcast.
Speaker 4: What I'm here for.
Speaker 2: That much?
Speaker 1: All right now, we're going to go back to this
Speaker 1: episode La de lure Exqueeze, which aired in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: which is crazy to say that.
Speaker 4: Out loud, right, I mean, I don't know, I was
Speaker 4: six years old. I realistically probably watched it somewhere like
Speaker 4: two thousand and NINEY ten got it?
Speaker 1: And how did you start to watch?
Speaker 4: Was it?
Speaker 1: The sisters had it on?
Speaker 4: So my sisters watched, especially my oldest sister Smantha, watched
Speaker 4: it like in real time, and I always knew it
Speaker 4: sort of in the background of my life, but I
Speaker 4: was obviously a little mature for me. And then when
Speaker 4: I was in like, you know, early high school and
Speaker 4: figuring out who I was as a queer person and
Speaker 4: developing my own taste and wanting to watch something that
Speaker 4: I thought was funny and culturally interesting, and it sort
Speaker 4: of like came back into my mind. And again because
Speaker 4: my sisters, it's always there, like they have trivia games
Speaker 4: and merch and so it's always was there in the
Speaker 4: back of my head. And so I started to watch it,
Speaker 4: and then I used to watch it every night before
Speaker 4: I went to sleep and just burned through the series.
Speaker 1: Love it.
Speaker 4: And then since then, I'm you know, I can't really
Speaker 4: count on my hands how many times I've gone through
Speaker 4: and watched it.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 4: I probably have a lot more memorized than you.
Speaker 1: Which is great, And that's what I started to say. Also,
Speaker 1: the fact that it is now comfort food, comfort watch
Speaker 1: for people. If you had told us this in the beginning,
Speaker 1: we never would have believed you. Like for us, you know,
Speaker 1: people were like so upset with us in the beginning,
Speaker 1: which people forget now, right they think like, oh, of
Speaker 1: course it was amazing in the beginning. No, everyone was like,
Speaker 1: who are these women? Who do they think they are?
Speaker 4: I was going to ask if it was how it
Speaker 4: was received initially because the other show that I always
Speaker 4: returned to and that I'm obsessed with as Girls, which
Speaker 4: is sort of like a metaphorical cousin of the show.
Speaker 4: And yes, you know, I think Lena's brilliant, and it
Speaker 4: was sort of a similar thing. I mean, I loved
Speaker 4: it the first time around, but where I think people
Speaker 4: are rediscovering it and reappreciating how daring it was interesting
Speaker 4: and original, And I feel like this is maybe sort
Speaker 4: of the same thing of like maybe we didn't appreciate
Speaker 4: quite at the time, like to center these women and
Speaker 4: the way you were centering them.
Speaker 1: I think it was so shocking in the beginning. And really,
Speaker 1: if you think that this is something I'm thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about now. Our world has changed so drastically with
Speaker 1: social media right where literally everyone is a critic and
Speaker 1: everyone has a platform.
Speaker 2: Right back then, there.
Speaker 1: Were like a handful of white men critics predominantly, maybe
Speaker 1: a few others at the big newspapers. This was the
Speaker 1: thing or the magazines, right, so we knew we had
Speaker 1: filmed the whole first season before it had aired.
Speaker 4: There was no pilot situation. It was just we did.
Speaker 1: Film a pilot, and then they took like a year,
Speaker 1: a year and a half something in my mind, too
Speaker 1: long to pick it up.
Speaker 2: But they did pick it up.
Speaker 4: You shot the pilot, went away for a year, So
Speaker 4: the second episode is a year later.
Speaker 1: I got to go rewatch it roughly roughly Sarah's Harrah's
Speaker 1: Brown in the pilot.
Speaker 3: Yes, I remember, yes, now she tells me.
Speaker 1: That I might be wrong, But this is like nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety ninety seven that we filmed the pilot. No one
Speaker 1: can find the paperwork, like they exist somewhere, and I
Speaker 1: forgot to ask.
Speaker 2: Chris Albrecht was running HBO there.
Speaker 4: They were still analog at the time.
Speaker 1: We had to wait, Willy and I waited at the
Speaker 1: test for our very thick contract seven year contracts to
Speaker 1: be printed by the fax machine because the fax machine broke,
Speaker 1: and so we had to wait and wait and wait.
Speaker 1: No one was allowed to go in until you had
Speaker 1: your your big contract.
Speaker 4: You remember the other people that were testing against you.
Speaker 1: It was no one. Well, there was one girl who
Speaker 1: was there testing against me, though I really didn't perceive
Speaker 1: it that way because in my mind I was one
Speaker 1: hundred percent Charlotte and no one was going to come close.
Speaker 1: So I do know another actress who's really wonderful who
Speaker 1: ended up being on another HBO show, who I do
Speaker 1: think tested, though she wasn't there, which was good because
Speaker 1: I didn know her, and that would have been weird.
Speaker 2: Parry Reeves. Do you know Perry Reeves? Yeah, yeah, Perry
Speaker 2: was in the mix.
Speaker 1: Would have been perfect and wonderful. But at the time
Speaker 1: I was like, back everyone up, because I'm getting his part.
Speaker 4: As soon as you read it, you were like, this
Speaker 4: is for me, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: But luckily Willy was there, so he was entertaining me
Speaker 1: and I was not freaking out in the way that
Speaker 1: I would have been. And and there was a guy
Speaker 1: there who ended up being he was reading from mister Big,
Speaker 1: but he ended up being BIG's toxic friend, who would
Speaker 1: be like that bitch I dinner at I think so
Speaker 1: is he that there's he has two toxic friends.
Speaker 4: He always has a toxic friends exactly.
Speaker 1: But this was like the really handsome guy. I cannot
Speaker 1: remember his name right now. Anyway, he was there, and
Speaker 1: Willy was there, and then maybe like two other women
Speaker 1: I think, like a potential Samantha, because I think at
Speaker 1: that point Kim had said no until people were stressing
Speaker 1: about that anyway.
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It was that, you know, the buildings, the tall buildings
Speaker 1: in Century City, the twin Yeah, it was when HBO
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: Wow, I know. So whenever I drive by, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like the beginning, the beginning anyway, back to the episode.
Speaker 1: So we're here, and uh, the idea here is that.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to say this, do you
Speaker 1: know Alison Andrews the director, Alison and Andrews directed this.
Speaker 1: She was an indie film. This isn't our indie film era.
Speaker 1: We had an indie film era in the beginning, like
Speaker 1: Nicole Holofsoner of course, recoize that was our that was
Speaker 1: our gig for a while.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 1: Then we start mixing in the sopranos guys. So we
Speaker 1: got Ellen Colter, Alan Taylor, you know a bunch of
Speaker 1: oh my god, Van Patton, Timmy Van Patten, amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1: So then wed we kind of shift a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then we get this incredible Charles mcdogal British guy,
Speaker 1: like amazing. But then we've still got like indie women,
Speaker 1: which was great. And Allison was one of those gas
Speaker 1: food logs was big in the nineties and it was
Speaker 1: like right before this, and I can't remember that much
Speaker 1: about it, except that she was so cool. She had
Speaker 1: tattoos everywhere, and she was She's like like a mommy,
Speaker 1: like a mommy presence, but funny and offbeat mommy and so.
Speaker 4: Like a really well directed episode.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, let's let's talk about the episode.
Speaker 1: So this this episode is directed by Alison Anders, and
Speaker 1: it's written by someone named Allie Levy, and I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't know who that is. Like sometimes I'm just
Speaker 1: like I names, I'm like, oh, I don't know who
Speaker 1: this person was.
Speaker 4: Was it like a room and then different people would write.
Speaker 1: I think they had a room, and it's Michael Patrick
Speaker 1: and Oli Levey and they would have a room beforehand.
Speaker 1: And then when we were working in the beginning, it
Speaker 1: was Darren and Michael. Then Jenny joined. Soon Cindy comes
Speaker 1: but not quite yet. I don't think Cyndy shoot pack.
Speaker 1: And then Cindy and Jenny become executive producers as well,
Speaker 1: and then slowly we start adding in people that last, right,
Speaker 1: but I'm sorry, Olie Levy was not one of those
Speaker 1: people who lasted, or maybe had just been in the
Speaker 1: room exactly. So this also we've got some incredible guest stars.
Speaker 1: Will Arnett very funny, little Babyface, Oh.
Speaker 4: My god, really funny, and it's so.
Speaker 1: Good, so dreamy, so well cast, so well cast, so
Speaker 1: well cast. And James Urbaniac. Yeah, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'm seeing his name right.
Speaker 4: I think it's Urbaniac, thank you so much, or.
Speaker 2: Baniac that sounds better.
Speaker 1: And weirdly, both of those people end.
Speaker 2: Up on the Office.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 4: That is bizarre?
Speaker 1: Another show I love so much.
Speaker 4: And I also really like James on Difficult People. If
Speaker 4: you haven't watch Difficult People, it's a really funny show.
Speaker 4: Julie Klausner Cole Oh really really like satirical funny.
Speaker 1: She's very good at that. So the thing that I
Speaker 1: find really funny about this, and we're going to be
Speaker 1: technically rewatching, but I just want to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole thing with the Internet and the feet.
Speaker 4: Yes, uh huh, of course, wiki feet.
Speaker 1: I mean all of it right, like to the point
Speaker 1: where I have some lovely girls I call them my
Speaker 1: digital girlies, and they come over and help me film
Speaker 1: stuff for social media and they cut my feet out
Speaker 1: of everything, and I'm like, why do you guys, it's
Speaker 1: like the best part of the outphit. Why are you
Speaker 1: putting my feet out?
Speaker 2: They're like, we can't.
Speaker 1: We can't put any feet of any of our any
Speaker 1: of our people on.
Speaker 2: And I was like, is that bad? And they were like, yes,
Speaker 2: is that bad?
Speaker 4: The Internet is the show, but it's.
Speaker 1: Like an early version of it that this shoe salesman
Speaker 1: is willing to give Charlotte free shoes if she tries
Speaker 1: shoes on.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: And then we have this really awkward scene where he's
Speaker 1: theoretically potentially having experience. Though I remember so much stress
Speaker 1: about how we were going to do that that it
Speaker 1: wasn't just going to be awful.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, it's very funny, tasteful, uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I think it's And James does a.
Speaker 3: Really great He does a great, great job.
Speaker 1: He does a great, great job. And I do not
Speaker 1: think I was that nice to him. I'm just really honest.
Speaker 1: I think that I was not in love with this storyline.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were probably feeling really anxious about it.
Speaker 1: I was feeling very anxious and like what are we
Speaker 1: literally actually doing right now? Like I get the theme
Speaker 1: of the show, but like like what like what and
Speaker 1: I remember that, like, you know, he massages my feet
Speaker 1: at one point. I don't think he I don't know
Speaker 1: what he wanted or what he didn't want.
Speaker 3: Because also I was just like what.
Speaker 1: I remember them saying to me, like he's a really
Speaker 1: big deal in the indie film world, like be nice
Speaker 1: to him, and I'm like, I'm I'm having trouble, like
Speaker 1: because to me, and I don't really think of myself
Speaker 1: at all as a method actor, but like I am.
Speaker 4: Very introduced him as this guy exactly.
Speaker 1: Yes, by the the storyline, like it's very hard to
Speaker 1: jump over.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's your first context for.
Speaker 1: Someone, right, and you don't have any other context for them,
Speaker 1: do you mean it's not like we're hanging out enough
Speaker 1: in a different setting or whatever. Anyway, I was really stressed,
Speaker 1: really stressed about this, but I think when I watch
Speaker 1: it that it works.
Speaker 4: It really does work. And also again to bring like
Speaker 4: only a character that's as pure hearted a naive as Charlotte.
Speaker 4: Could we watch go through that and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: you poor thing, Like totally I get why you're saying, Yes,
Speaker 4: they're gorgeously you know what I mean, like we go
Speaker 4: on the journey with her.
Speaker 3: Well, that was my other thing.
Speaker 1: Is like would she say yes? And I mean but
Speaker 1: the way he plays it too, it's pretty charming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is considering what he's actually asking, like he goes
Speaker 1: about it in a way that isn't like.
Speaker 4: Oh, there's an elegance to him.
Speaker 3: Definitely that matches up.
Speaker 4: With her that you think, And it doesn't really start
Speaker 4: to turn that corner until the very end.
Speaker 3: That and then it's not as horrific as it could
Speaker 3: have been.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, not at all, not at all. So anyway,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 4: That was good.
Speaker 1: We just did Charlotte storyline. Now, someone else pointed out
Speaker 1: to me, Samantha doesn't really have a storyline.
Speaker 4: No, she kind of opens the episode and then that's it, right,
Speaker 4: But she's.
Speaker 1: Got that whip, which is fantastic. But I think it's
Speaker 1: important to mention and this is something that one time
Speaker 1: I was doing one of these and I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: where's Charlotte storyline? She didn't have one right because we
Speaker 1: had storyline ABCD. Because there were four of us and
Speaker 1: the show's only twenty two minutes. It's insane what they
Speaker 1: were able to get in there.
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker 1: But one thing that I've been watching the development of
Speaker 1: is that as writers, what they started developing, and it
Speaker 1: hasn't totally gelled.
Speaker 2: In this episode.
Speaker 1: We have a theme in this episode that's very very
Speaker 1: accurate and excellent for the different you know, storylines, But
Speaker 1: what starts happening as we go is the voiceover. She'll
Speaker 1: say something like and then uptown and they'll cut to
Speaker 1: me uptown and downtown. They'll cut to Samantha downtown and
Speaker 1: you know, on the East Side or whatever. They'll be Cynthia,
Speaker 1: and they're really really quick and they pull it all together.
Speaker 1: But we're not totally firing on all those right now.
Speaker 1: So some people might have the d storyline, which is
Speaker 1: very much less and so that would have been Samantha.
Speaker 1: But then usually what we're doing is filming two episodes
Speaker 1: at once so that we can crossboard the locations because
Speaker 1: in New York the locations are the thing, of course,
Speaker 1: so we can have one restaurant where we're outside maybe
Speaker 1: that restaurant, and then inside that restaurant pretend, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: might pretend it's a different place, so we might dress
Speaker 1: a corner of the restaurant differently so it doesn't look
Speaker 1: so identifiable. And you probably have a good storyline in
Speaker 1: the other episode if you didn't have a storyline in
Speaker 1: the one. But it's hard. It's hard when you're watching it,
Speaker 1: of course to know that or whatever. But it's not
Speaker 1: like anyone was meaning to leave.
Speaker 4: Some mean that just like me, But it's still finding
Speaker 4: it's it's juice and like exactly, there are those magic
Speaker 4: episodes where it's like all four stories are really like
Speaker 4: inherent to the theme and they all feel like really
Speaker 4: irrevocable from each other.
Speaker 1: And the reason in this particular episode that there's not
Speaker 1: as much time is because the carry and big storyline.
Speaker 4: It's a big turning point is massive. It's one of
Speaker 4: the biggest turn point.
Speaker 3: And it is so unbelievably good.
Speaker 4: It's really good.
Speaker 1: And Sir Jessica, if she hadn't been winning awards, which
Speaker 1: actually at this point she hadn't been, completely one needs
Speaker 1: one for this particular episode.
Speaker 4: Yeah, really amazing. I mean, let's just start with the meme.
Speaker 4: You know, it's a very popular meme. Carry out the
Speaker 4: door with the hat.
Speaker 1: Oh well, as well it should be.
Speaker 2: And can you believe his reaction.
Speaker 4: Like like to, well, that's kind of why they were
Speaker 4: so exactly because he lets her come to him.
Speaker 3: It's so bad.
Speaker 4: It makes us hate him.
Speaker 3: I hate him so much.
Speaker 1: I want her to beat him with.
Speaker 4: That when we get it, because we're like, listen.
Speaker 1: We've all been there there, We've all been there.
Speaker 4: Wanted to be the chaser.
Speaker 3: And I didn't know this was.
Speaker 1: A meme, but I totally get it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's you'll search it after we do this, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 1: I will because her with that outfit, with that whip
Speaker 1: in that hat is good because.
Speaker 4: Then she appears to the door again with the beret
Speaker 4: and the McDonald's which is also mean, which.
Speaker 1: I totally get that one, so and I mean, I
Speaker 1: get them both. But the thing that's funny with the
Speaker 1: Big thing is so when I first started with the
Speaker 1: first season, I'm like, big is so awful. Big is
Speaker 1: so awful. It was really this huge thing for me
Speaker 1: because I had never second guessed it ever. Obviously I
Speaker 1: was in it, but obviously we've all known bigs and
Speaker 1: or different versions of big.
Speaker 4: Of course we are.
Speaker 1: Right, it's like very frecking truth, yes, yeah, of course
Speaker 1: annoying of course. So I'm very identified with Carrie.
Speaker 4: Through all of this, right, I mean we all right, right.
Speaker 1: And that's why she's such an incredible character, and whoever
Speaker 1: wants to criticize her can just like whatever.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of that comes from people recognizing
Speaker 4: things within themselves that they don't like that they see
Speaker 4: mirrored by.
Speaker 2: Care how much.
Speaker 3: How M sure I love it.
Speaker 4: I love heroes that are complicated, much like not to
Speaker 4: always bring it back to girls, but much like Hannah
Speaker 4: Horvath on Girls, who's also does a lot of challenging things.
Speaker 4: But we all do challenging things.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and it might be hard to accept
Speaker 1: those sides of ourselves.
Speaker 4: But that's a much more interesting person than just absolutely well.
Speaker 1: Also, we would never have a show no, Like, have
Speaker 1: you seen there's some guy on instagram ed or TikTok
Speaker 1: who is like, this is how people want Carrie to be.
Speaker 3: She's like, it's really really funny.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna call my therapist. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to call my friends to talk to them about Big.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call my therapist and I'm not gonna go.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's really really entertaining. Anyway, Back to the show. Back
Speaker 1: to the show, So what I love so so so much. So, Okay,
Speaker 1: we start the show. The first season, I've been like,
Speaker 1: BIG's awful. That's basically every episode. Then the second the
Speaker 1: second season, he's amazing.
Speaker 4: He starts to come around.
Speaker 1: Oh thank god, he's so charming and they're so great together,
Speaker 1: and I was so happy. Then we have this beginning
Speaker 1: of this episode, she's there in that outfit and he's
Speaker 1: just like blah blah, which obviously then is the engine
Speaker 1: that you know, pushes her to the wall where she
Speaker 1: finally says all the things she's been wanting to say
Speaker 1: and realizes her own issues in terms of trying again
Speaker 1: and again and again to get him to do to.
Speaker 4: Be considered in his life in a real way.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Oh my god, you're hired to be here every week, Ben.
Speaker 3: But what I love so here.
Speaker 1: I am not remembering the episode right and just starting
Speaker 1: from the top and being like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: don't remember being at that bar. This must be the
Speaker 1: thing that people keep talking to me about. That's nnbar
Speaker 1: and look at my hair. That's hysterical that I say.
Speaker 1: She's like, what's your kinking him? Like a king?
Speaker 3: My hair?
Speaker 2: It's so Charlotte.
Speaker 4: It's perfect.
Speaker 1: It's so perfect, and I love it so much. Don't
Speaker 1: remember any of it, amazing, remember all the shoe things.
Speaker 1: Don't remember that.
Speaker 4: You don't remember the spanking, the waiter, you don't remember
Speaker 4: the guy tied up in the chain.
Speaker 1: Nothing. I'm sure it's five am. It might be seven am,
Speaker 1: like we were all night every night and all those things.
Speaker 1: I have no memory whatsoever, which is interesting because you
Speaker 1: think i'd remember that.
Speaker 4: No, it kind of makes sense to me that like
Speaker 4: the things that we would consider to be the like shocking,
Speaker 4: like oh you must remember this like slacious thing. It's like, no,
Speaker 4: you probably remember this like two hand or thing that
Speaker 4: you couldn't get and it was four and the more like.
Speaker 1: You definitely, definitely it is true.
Speaker 2: It is true.
Speaker 1: And also I think because I was, you know, nervous
Speaker 1: and confused about my own storyline, that I that I
Speaker 1: that you know that took my attention. And I also
Speaker 1: do remember the scene that you're talking about where it's
Speaker 1: the three of us walking and talking because I was
Speaker 1: so excited to be there because sometimes Charlotte's left out
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm here for you, like even
Speaker 1: when you were doing just like that, if Miranda and
Speaker 1: Carrie had to walk and talk and be like why
Speaker 1: am I not there? And now that I'm rewatching, I
Speaker 1: realized that the Miranda Carrie storyline of walking and talking
Speaker 1: is a through line that is so powerful. It is
Speaker 1: really amazing.
Speaker 4: A couple of friends walked a couple of blocks. You
Speaker 4: just wait, you have so much I mean, I.
Speaker 1: Know, right, But also it's because their dynamic is so
Speaker 1: interesting and Miranda really tells her the truth, like people
Speaker 1: are like, well, why didn't people stand up to carry
Speaker 1: They did Miranda especially all the time. So Carrie has
Speaker 1: this scene where she goes to Big in her incredible
Speaker 1: outfit and she's trying to be funny and fun and sexy.
Speaker 4: The night goes okay, I think they like, they hook up,
Speaker 4: they sleep together, and then in the morning he just
Speaker 4: drops the bomb.
Speaker 1: That he but he's only going to pairs. She asks
Speaker 1: him if he will go if he wants to do
Speaker 1: a Hampden Share, because Charlotte has asked her to do
Speaker 1: a Hampden Share and he says, oh, I can't because
Speaker 1: I'm going to Paris, and she's like what. And she's
Speaker 1: standing on the bed and then she leans forward, which
Speaker 1: is so cool and interesting because you know, most directors
Speaker 1: would be like, don't stand on the bed, you know,
Speaker 1: but this is why the show is so awesome.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: Right, she's standing on.
Speaker 1: The bed in her cute vintage slip which I love
Speaker 1: so much. And she is so good and so deeply
Speaker 1: you know, upset and thrown and trying to hold it together.
Speaker 4: She's really good at I mean, she's an amazing actor altogether. Yes,
Speaker 4: she's really good, specifically at receiving information which I always
Speaker 4: think is a really hard thing information that you know
Speaker 4: as a person, as human being, you already know that,
Speaker 4: like making it feel like it's being heard for the
Speaker 4: first time. Yes, she's expert at that.
Speaker 1: She is expert at hearing it and also expert at covering.
Speaker 1: But also it's just enough covering that the audience is
Speaker 1: with her.
Speaker 4: They know what she's going through it.
Speaker 1: Right, It's a very very fine line to walk. And
Speaker 1: she's amazing. Yeah, I mean I always knew this, but
Speaker 1: rewatching him like even more, wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 3: Okay, then he.
Speaker 1: Says, Oh yeah, it might be for years.
Speaker 3: He's such a dick.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm so mad at him.
Speaker 2: I know, I get so mad at him.
Speaker 4: It's the avoidant. It's the like emotionally unavailable avoidant, like
Speaker 4: like it's just the way. It's the way. It's first
Speaker 4: of all, it's not like relationship ending to say, my
Speaker 4: work is going to take me to Paris, and I
Speaker 4: think we're in a weird space where I don't know
Speaker 4: how to handle that and I don't think it's time
Speaker 4: for you to move, but maybe like it's it's he
Speaker 4: doesn't have any of that language. It's just like I
Speaker 4: have to be able to just throw things out and
Speaker 4: like do what I.
Speaker 1: Want, right, I'm going to do it absolutely absolutely. He
Speaker 1: doesn't take her into consideration in any way, shape or form,
Speaker 1: which is why she does what she does the rest
Speaker 1: of the episode, which thank god, right, thank god. Okay,
Speaker 1: oh wait, I have to I have to bring up
Speaker 1: Stanford for a second.
Speaker 4: Of course, love my storyline so much, so much, and
Speaker 4: you know, I was like young queer person figuring myself
Speaker 4: out and doing my first dating and stuff and what
Speaker 4: so like to see it's just like a regular sweet
Speaker 4: like not mister perfect superhero man, like go out and
Speaker 4: try to like have an experience like that. It was
Speaker 4: so wonderful.
Speaker 2: And it's like.
Speaker 1: Before the apps, right, so he's online.
Speaker 4: I know it's like proto apps.
Speaker 3: I know it's the cute big tool for you, big
Speaker 3: tool for you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, It's so good. And the way that
Speaker 1: Willy does it is just.
Speaker 4: So sweet, so sweet. He just wants connection.
Speaker 3: I know, he just wants connection.
Speaker 1: And he's intimidated, which I understand so much from a
Speaker 1: straight woman, but also from a gay man obviously many
Speaker 1: gay man friends, and the pressure is re.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, of course, especially the body stuff, like
Speaker 4: specifically having it be a story where he has to
Speaker 4: He's like, in order to have this experience, he got
Speaker 4: a strip down and just bear it all and then
Speaker 4: he has a really great, like flirty encounter. It's just
Speaker 4: like so affirming. It's really so.
Speaker 1: Affirming and beautiful in the way he does it is
Speaker 1: just so good. And another thing that I didn't really
Speaker 1: realize at the time, because Willie was straight and stressed
Speaker 1: sometimes about how to play Stanford. I think he'd be
Speaker 1: okay with me saying this. I hope so he and
Speaker 1: I were going to do a rewatch podcast. I know, yes,
Speaker 1: the week that we decided to do and just like that,
Speaker 1: we were supposed to sign our contract. Wow, I know
Speaker 1: we stuf cry together. It's gonna be bad.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have trouble's he's around, I know.
Speaker 1: So we were gonna do a rewatch podcast, which would
Speaker 1: have been so much fun. Yeah, but he was really
Speaker 1: worried because he thought he was going to get in
Speaker 1: trouble because he had like no filter in life.
Speaker 2: I don't did you get to work with him?
Speaker 4: No? I just admire him from this but never.
Speaker 1: Oh oh my god, oh my god. Incredible human being
Speaker 1: and funny and cutting, like super smart and cutting in
Speaker 1: life that comes across. Yeah, I mean, Stanford is incredibly sweet. Comparabily,
Speaker 1: Willy was sweet, but like could also like cut to
Speaker 1: the bone, do you know what I mean? Sounds Oh,
Speaker 1: love it, love it, love it. So we were going
Speaker 1: to do this podcast together and he he had said
Speaker 1: to me after we ended up doing and just like
Speaker 1: that instead, basically it seemed too weird to do both
Speaker 1: at the same time, and we didn't think we'd have time,
Speaker 1: which is true. And I didn't know that Willy was
Speaker 1: sick at the time that Willy knew, and he he
Speaker 1: said to me one of the things he was worried
Speaker 1: about was that when he signed on to play Stanford,
Speaker 1: in his mind, Stanford was gay, but it wasn't the
Speaker 1: whole like essence of him. He was in this world
Speaker 1: equals yeah. And then there were times he felt that
Speaker 1: certain people encouraged him to be more flamboyantly gay than
Speaker 1: he had wanted to be originally. And there was a
Speaker 1: person's that Stanford was based on who was in our
Speaker 1: world and would come to our parties and stuff, who
Speaker 1: you know, I ever would have ever known was gay.
Speaker 1: And I think he was like a lawyer or something
Speaker 1: like he was, you know, Stanford's a manager vaguely of
Speaker 1: models or whatever, vaguely.
Speaker 4: The perfect underwear man.
Speaker 1: Exactly, the boner maybe something like this. But this guy
Speaker 1: was not in any way flamboyantly gay. And the idea
Speaker 1: was that Stanford was based on him in some vague way.
Speaker 1: And so Willie's struggle in the beginning was that sometimes
Speaker 1: people he felt would come up to.
Speaker 2: And be like, gay it up, gay it up, and
Speaker 2: he felt like is that right? Is that wrong?
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do and he was worried
Speaker 1: about talking about that because he didn't want to like
Speaker 1: ruin Stanford for people or make people uncomfortable about it.
Speaker 1: But when I look back on his performance, to me,
Speaker 1: it's just the most beautiful balance.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's so well calibrated, right, and I'm
Speaker 4: not you know, it's I think it's like a It's
Speaker 4: like a snowflake in terms of the whole like queer
Speaker 4: people playing queer people, straight people think queer people. I
Speaker 4: think it's case by case. Clearly there was plenty of
Speaker 4: quer people in the creative like space making this feel
Speaker 4: like a real person and writing him as a real person.
Speaker 4: Clearly Willy's coming out of with a lot of talent
Speaker 4: and humanity. Like in this case, I see it as
Speaker 4: such a positive representation of somebody who's also like, you know,
Speaker 4: a neurotic and nabushy like me. So obviously I connect
Speaker 4: to him, but just in terms of like an actual
Speaker 4: person who's not just you know, I love a starky
Speaker 4: gay assistant who's there to just be a starky gay assistant.
Speaker 4: But but Stanford's like a whole person, So I really
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad. I'm so glad You're the first person
Speaker 1: I felt safe to talk about this time.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad. We should do this once a week.
Speaker 1: Me too, I mean, I really, I really like because
Speaker 1: he's not in the show enough in the beginning, right,
Speaker 1: like he comes and then he goes, and usually I'm
Speaker 1: just like awed by just looking at his beautiful young self,
Speaker 1: you know, and remembering him. But this episode, because the
Speaker 1: storyline is so beautifully written.
Speaker 4: I love the two of them in the apartment. I'm
Speaker 4: drinking the Martiniz and him being honest about it with
Speaker 4: Sarah Jisica just like and you can with my girlfriends,
Speaker 4: you know, all they're.
Speaker 1: Friends from like when they're in their twenties and you
Speaker 1: so feel it and she can't stop laughing.
Speaker 3: It's so adorable, it is.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad it's on film.
Speaker 4: Me too. Isn't it a beautiful It is that that
Speaker 4: that girl and gay best friend relationship is a very sacred.
Speaker 1: Special thing, sacred special thing, and it was.
Speaker 4: Like Anthony, but that's not absolutely.
Speaker 1: But they all matter, of course, you know, And they're
Speaker 1: all different versions and they're all real to us and
Speaker 1: we all have them, thank God, in our lives and
Speaker 1: it's so important, so important. Okay, I'm gonna really try
Speaker 1: it to cry, I don't know about it. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: get to carry and big because it's super important. This
Speaker 1: whole episode is so incredible and I so relate to Carrie,
Speaker 1: and I so.
Speaker 2: Think Sir Jessica is just seking brilliant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, like.
Speaker 1: So incredibly brilliant. And at this point in her life
Speaker 1: she's happily married to Matthew, so he even still like
Speaker 1: awes me the depth that she's pulling from, you know,
Speaker 1: and when she throws that hamburger, which we're not, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so good.
Speaker 3: Oh God, Fish, yes, Li Big Mac Yes.
Speaker 1: And I love Alison Andrews for making us all feel
Speaker 1: so comfortable. What I see when I look at this
Speaker 1: episode is all of us feeling very safe and comfortable
Speaker 1: and settled into our part at this point in the
Speaker 1: second season.
Speaker 4: And audience wise, you feel wish you always to a
Speaker 4: certain extent you do, but particularly in this episode, like
Speaker 4: in the room with people like in very into because
Speaker 4: the show has a lot of style, so sometimes the
Speaker 4: like sharpness in the style can can create like a
Speaker 4: bit of remove and in a way that's I think intended.
Speaker 4: But a lot of these like more messier emotional moments,
Speaker 4: like in this episode, like I felt very like let in.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent let in and out. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that is Alison. Yeah, I think she's she
Speaker 1: was so chill and laid back, and I can see
Speaker 1: that in Sarah, Like there's a there's a take where
Speaker 1: Sarah's got her computer but her legs are on either
Speaker 1: side and the cameras behind her, Like it's creative and fun,
Speaker 1: and Sarah Jessica loves that stuff, you know, like give
Speaker 1: her props, give let her do weird things with their body,
Speaker 1: Like she's.
Speaker 4: So does how to make a space feel like she
Speaker 4: really lives in that space because she's.
Speaker 1: A very physical actor. You know, she's intellectual and physical.
Speaker 2: It's very interesting. It's very very interesting.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to watch your friends, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: because you.
Speaker 4: Know them, right, that's the bast I mean, especially watching
Speaker 4: a friend you love and respect. Like I made this
Speaker 4: movie Theater Camp with Noah, with my husband being part
Speaker 4: of the you know, the cut process of that and
Speaker 4: you know, shooting and like just watching him work, like
Speaker 4: it can be a really challenging thing when you're watching
Speaker 4: a friend or your person when there's not a belief
Speaker 4: in them or like there's there's like a criticis you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, where it's like it's not a
Speaker 4: talent that you really believe in because it's that that's
Speaker 4: how it makes that line is hard. But there's nothing
Speaker 4: more special than like someone you love as a person
Speaker 4: and you can really admire that there's have a special ability.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Okay, So well here we are. We're with We're with
Speaker 1: Carrying Big, We're with krriying Big. Oh wait, should we
Speaker 1: talk about we should talk about the Will Arnett because
Speaker 1: that's a pretty funny storyline, so good and so New York.
Speaker 4: New York. But I know what you're saying about the
Speaker 4: episode sort of like that story I could kind of
Speaker 4: go anywhere totally. It's just its own little pocket.
Speaker 1: It's not totally a game. It's kind of a game
Speaker 1: so funny. It's so funny. He wants to have sex
Speaker 1: and public places. So they meet at a bookstore basically
Speaker 1: the strand on the street talking about biography. So he
Speaker 1: takes her to where Mark Twain wrote, which I think
Speaker 1: we all know is New Yorkers. Like it's yes, right there,
Speaker 1: We've all been there. I've never had sex there, and
Speaker 1: he wants to have sex there, which is funny. And
Speaker 1: then they have sex in a cab. That's a bit
Speaker 1: of a stretch for me. Yes, which is very, very
Speaker 1: very Cynthia though she wouldn't be having sex in the cab,
Speaker 1: but she is very directing of this.
Speaker 4: Of course, drivers we can suspend this belief for the
Speaker 4: show that they somehow made it happen in the back
Speaker 4: of the cab.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm sure people have. Of course, I
Speaker 1: have definitely made out in a one of the best
Speaker 1: places to.
Speaker 2: Make up, definitely, but not the rest.
Speaker 4: She's a great on camera maker out her Cynthia will say,
Speaker 4: I think she's amazing.
Speaker 2: She has no fear, she's not concern.
Speaker 1: And sometimes anxiety provoking away from.
Speaker 2: Me as her friend.
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, I would be like, is anyone protecting
Speaker 1: her hearing because there's no intimacy coordinators as we know
Speaker 1: back in the day, just whatever, and she's like, yes,
Speaker 1: I'll do it. Yes, my feet are dirty, I don't
Speaker 1: care film them. I'm like, didn't have anyone have a
Speaker 1: what one? Come on? Anyway? That's me, that's me and
Speaker 1: I play Charlotte as very clear, very clear. Okay, So
Speaker 1: here we are. We're Stanford confesses to carry about the cyber.
Speaker 2: Sex, which is so cute.
Speaker 1: On the internet.
Speaker 3: Big tool for you.
Speaker 1: We've gone over all that. Then they have U. I'm
Speaker 1: back at the shoe store and his name is Buster,
Speaker 1: which is kind of hysterical, like Buster Brown. I don't
Speaker 1: know if anyone will get that reference at this point, but.
Speaker 4: I know Buster Brown. But why Buster Brown in this?
Speaker 2: They make shoes?
Speaker 3: Ah, okay, the youngsters.
Speaker 1: This is like from the forties. Okay, don't ask me
Speaker 1: why we did that. But all right, I'm getting free shoes.
Speaker 1: He's charming but slightly ew but that's okay. Then we
Speaker 1: have this adorable walk and talk. I'm wearing my own
Speaker 1: shirts for some reason. Really, that's another thing I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about you beginning. Yeah, we didn't have a lot of budget.
Speaker 1: You can see that it's getting better. The fashion is
Speaker 1: getting better. But like sometimes I would go shopping and
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I want Charloe to wear this. So
Speaker 1: then I just take it, you know, and try to
Speaker 1: like it's a work in progress. Being pat figuring Charlotte
Speaker 1: out and being able to afford Charlotte.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Basically, Charlotte has very expensive taste, very.
Speaker 1: Expensive taste, and I'm wearing this beautiful necklace. It's a butterfly,
Speaker 1: it's got rubies, it's a vintage necklace. I wore it
Speaker 1: a lot. And then at the end of the season,
Speaker 1: we're still trying to get press, which I know is
Speaker 1: insane to think about now, I know, crazy, Yes, but
Speaker 1: we had to try. Anyone who would talk to us.
Speaker 1: We'd be like, sure, ask us anything, do We'll do anything.
Speaker 1: Like at one point they were like, tell us your
Speaker 1: worst dates, which I unabashedly did, and Cynthia Nixon called
Speaker 1: me and she was like, why did you tell them
Speaker 1: that story? Only as I don't know, I felt like
Speaker 1: I had to tell them something. She's like, don't ever
Speaker 1: tell that story again.
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, okay, Well now it's like the currency,
Speaker 4: you know, not to get off topic, but in terms
Speaker 4: of like press tours and stuff, it's like that becomes
Speaker 4: more important than the movie. It's one stories are you're
Speaker 4: telling and are you cool on camera? And I know,
Speaker 4: is it viral? And is it is it the like
Speaker 4: what about the what about the movie?
Speaker 3: Yes, totally true.
Speaker 1: I feel like we were on the like the forefront
Speaker 1: of that happening totally, but we understood because they were
Speaker 1: trying to relate it to the show. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like you as people, which is the lasting
Speaker 1: power of the show, right, But then you're also giving
Speaker 1: up your personal stories to whoever it is who's going
Speaker 1: to present it however they're going to present it. I
Speaker 1: think now the good news is you have more control
Speaker 1: because you have your own social media, et cetera.
Speaker 4: I'm only asked like a few fan questions, but how
Speaker 4: far into it was like being yourself around New York
Speaker 4: like not no longer possible, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, I do know what you mean. I would say
Speaker 1: in my mind, I don't remember getting difficult till third season.
Speaker 1: In my my third season is when we boomed. Other
Speaker 1: people seem to feel that we were already the I
Speaker 1: didn't personally feel that. I mean, I had been on
Speaker 1: Melrose Place before that, right, which had its own kind
Speaker 1: of culty kind of following, So I had some of
Speaker 1: that that would follow me.
Speaker 2: Wherever I was.
Speaker 4: But I mean, like you became like emblems of New York.
Speaker 1: So it's true, and people always would say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: no one in New York cares about actors.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, not really true, not really true.
Speaker 1: But that was because we were in New York's show
Speaker 1: and they felt like we were theirs, you know. But
Speaker 1: I also feel now, well, no, it's different. Like in
Speaker 1: La I learned where to go and where not to go. Right,
Speaker 1: Like Brentwood really easy. There's a lot of actors in Brentwood.
Speaker 4: It was cool, so segment, Like in New York, it's
Speaker 4: sort of like you're out, You're out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're out.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: But there was a time where I realized I cannot
Speaker 1: walk down Madison Avenue and that kind of sucked, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But like if I walked.
Speaker 3: Down I know, like if I walked.
Speaker 1: Down Madison Avenue, if I actually wanted to window gaze
Speaker 1: or shop or whatever, I couldn't get anywhere, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: It was frustrating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was totally fine. I just had to be creative,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There was one time and
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna have.
Speaker 3: To get back to the show because you're too fun.
Speaker 1: There was one time we were shooting somewhere near Barney's
Speaker 1: and Sara Jessica said.
Speaker 2: Hey, do you want to go shoe shopping online? And
Speaker 2: I was like definitely.
Speaker 1: She said, let's leave our security behind. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is later when we got security. At this point
Speaker 1: in time, we don't. We're just out there. Our trailers
Speaker 1: would be on the street with our characters' names. And
Speaker 1: one day someone knocked on my door and I thought
Speaker 1: it was an ad so I opened the door and
Speaker 1: it was some guy fan ish type person saying ask
Speaker 1: and I was like, I shouldn't be talking. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like kind of cuckoo. We changed all that as
Speaker 1: time went, but the time that they're just going to
Speaker 1: go to Barney's, we thought we could lose our security guys.
Speaker 1: We each had one at that point. Q was mine,
Speaker 1: loving very much.
Speaker 2: Khalid was hers.
Speaker 1: And she told Khalid she was going to have lunch
Speaker 1: in her trailer and he could go have lunch, and
Speaker 1: then she snuck over to mine and we went, but
Speaker 1: Q followed us at a distance and we didn't know.
Speaker 1: But it was a good thing because we get the
Speaker 1: Barneys at lunch time and we're trying to try shoes.
Speaker 4: So stupid, right.
Speaker 1: So dumb. It's lunch hour in New York City at
Speaker 1: Barney's is packed with women and there's just a crowd.
Speaker 4: Around, of course, and you're trying.
Speaker 3: I know, it's so stupid.
Speaker 1: And at one point Q was hiding behind a pole
Speaker 1: and we just see him like do you need me?
Speaker 1: Like yes, just so we could get out of the building. Joes,
Speaker 1: I know, right, And Barney, I mean it was fun.
Speaker 2: We were just trying to be girls for a minute, parties,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Okay, back to the all the episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, oh my god, you're too much fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, Charlie, she's sure, we're good with that. I want
Speaker 1: to get too.
Speaker 3: Big because this, to me is the fight at the end.
Speaker 1: Yes, So basically Carrie talks to us many times about
Speaker 1: And this is when I think about the narcissistic Carrie situation,
Speaker 1: right where for like a couple of years, it seemed
Speaker 1: like everyone just wanted to criticize Carry for being narcissistic.
Speaker 1: To me, first of all, I don't think she's narcissistic.
Speaker 3: I think that we're hearing everybody is a little bit.
Speaker 4: Let's just say that.
Speaker 1: Let's say she's not more so, yes.
Speaker 4: And she's like twisting herself to try to be what
Speaker 4: he wants her to be. Exactly, which is, you know,
Speaker 4: kind of a selfless thing to do.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 4: I'm misguided, but yes, but we.
Speaker 2: All do this.
Speaker 1: I have done this right. But also I think as
Speaker 1: if you were part of the reason you feel like
Speaker 1: carry's narcissistic is because you're hearing Carrie's thoughts, yeah, which
Speaker 1: I don't think people think about, like you're her head.
Speaker 4: Were getting the whole internal monologue, right, So it's like
Speaker 4: if we were hearing that for each girl, we probably
Speaker 4: say the.
Speaker 1: Same exactly, because everyone's internal monologue is narcissistic, that's kind
Speaker 1: of yeah.
Speaker 4: And she becomes like such an omnipotent narrator that she's
Speaker 4: sort of like helping us craft our judgments of what's
Speaker 4: happening with the other.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's a great point.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Never thought about that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So in this particular episode, she's like almost sending herself
Speaker 1: up in terms of like there's all these quick cuts
Speaker 1: where she's like talking to me and talking to Smith
Speaker 1: and talking to Marda and yeah.
Speaker 3: And big and I just kept trying to be what
Speaker 3: do you want?
Speaker 1: Like, She's just going on and on and on, and
Speaker 1: it's actually really really funny because it's like an exaggeration
Speaker 1: of what everyone complained about later on.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 4: The first reaction is that like her banging the table
Speaker 4: and the diner with you guys, and I believe I'm
Speaker 4: here again. Yes, And then she does like the one
Speaker 4: she like calls him drunk and like, you know, makes
Speaker 4: the wrong move and then does the one ady of
Speaker 4: like being embarrassed and feeling ashamed about that. And so
Speaker 4: then she's back with you guys and being like, actually,
Speaker 4: you know what, like one am, it's Paris, Like it'll
Speaker 4: be great, Like I'll go visit him.
Speaker 1: She's taking because that's what Charlotte said. Originally it was like,
Speaker 1: where's a big deal you can go to Paris. Yes,
Speaker 1: she does her.
Speaker 4: She goes through her seven stages while waiting for him
Speaker 4: to come back. It's like we all spiral exactly that
Speaker 4: same way.
Speaker 3: That's so right.
Speaker 1: Does she call him in this episode?
Speaker 4: Yes, when she gets drunk with Stanford, Yeah, and the
Speaker 4: scene that I love God you've watched and then she
Speaker 4: she she calls him and it's like, you know, four
Speaker 4: am in Paris, and she likes saying like a real thing,
Speaker 4: and it is like trying to be like, you're not considered.
Speaker 4: She's trying to say what she did later says, which
Speaker 4: is like you can't factor me in your life. Yes,
Speaker 4: but because she's d young, it just doesn't come out
Speaker 4: well and she she gets really embarrassed by it, and
Speaker 4: then and exactly and so suddenly she's like, oh, am
Speaker 4: I going to lose him? And so let me, let
Speaker 4: me try to reframe this. And then she's with you
Speaker 4: guys walking and she's like, you're right, like like this,
Speaker 4: what am I freaking out about? Like what's the worst
Speaker 4: thing about going to Paris with your boyfriend? Just like
Speaker 4: doing her own like mental gymnastics to try to make
Speaker 4: it work with this guy who's giving her like nothing.
Speaker 1: I haven't all been there so much. So and then
Speaker 1: he comes back. So that's when she comes in her
Speaker 1: adorable beret, her French outfit. Someone asked me how did
Speaker 1: Paris become this through line with them? And I think
Speaker 1: it's all just because we all love Paris. I mean
Speaker 1: I would have to ask Michael Batrick because I.
Speaker 4: Think the first time we hear about it, this is the.
Speaker 1: Beginning of what's going to be a very, very very
Speaker 1: long through line of Paris. Yes, I don't even want
Speaker 1: to say it ends exactly for decades. It's so important.
Speaker 2: But who doesn't love Paris of coury.
Speaker 4: I just went in the spring with my husband, the
Speaker 4: first like adult proper trip there of my family and
Speaker 4: I was a kid, but yeah, so dreaming.
Speaker 1: We just went there all together to promote and just
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so fun.
Speaker 1: It was incredible. It was incredible. It was incredible. So
Speaker 1: he comes back, she's wearing her beret, she has the
Speaker 1: match fish, and she apologizes, and she tells him that
Speaker 1: she thinks they can make it work and that they
Speaker 1: can have phone sex if he asked to move to Paris,
Speaker 1: which is hysterical. Yeah, which is also funny.
Speaker 4: Very funny in terms of and just like that, oh yeah,
Speaker 4: of course, okay, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And then he tells her something to the effect of,
Speaker 1: I don't want you to move to Paris because you're
Speaker 1: expecting something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It literally makes me want to kill him.
Speaker 4: It's I don't want you to uproot your life and
Speaker 4: expect anything, right, It's like, excuse me, tall.
Speaker 1: It's so after the mental gymnastics, after all that she
Speaker 1: emotionally has gotten through to try to get to that
Speaker 1: point to say it can work. He's like, but don't
Speaker 1: expect anything.
Speaker 4: This is the thing with Big It's like, it's like
Speaker 4: it's one thing to be emotionally unavailable but be able
Speaker 4: to articulate that you have that shortcoming, and it's another
Speaker 4: thing to not have any words for it and to
Speaker 4: just be abusive.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's so at which point she takes back and smashes
Speaker 1: it against the wall, which you know, hallelujah that she
Speaker 1: does it right.
Speaker 4: Satisfying.
Speaker 1: It's very satisfying, and he deserves that and so much more, really,
Speaker 1: and then she says something like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: she says this to him. Does she say, why is
Speaker 1: it so hard for you to factor into your.
Speaker 4: Lives in any real way?
Speaker 2: Kills me?
Speaker 4: And he has no good answer.
Speaker 1: Really no, because he doesn't deserve her.
Speaker 4: No, he does not. And then she said, you said
Speaker 4: you said you love me, and he said I do.
Speaker 4: It's like the why is it hurt so much? And
Speaker 4: we're back to Ludolor squeeze.
Speaker 1: We are and then and this made me upset and
Speaker 1: I didn't remember this. Then we cut to Stanford and
Speaker 1: we have some other scenes, but then he comes to
Speaker 1: her door in the middle of the night and she
Speaker 1: lets him in.
Speaker 2: I didn't remember the ending.
Speaker 1: Yes, she lets him in and they have sex.
Speaker 4: They have this like unspoken goodbye, right, And I'm like, oh.
Speaker 1: No, because I personally don't believe in goodbye sex.
Speaker 2: I do not think you should have goodbye sex.
Speaker 4: I don't think I ever have.
Speaker 1: I think I have, and I didn't know it.
Speaker 4: Is it goodbye sex? If you don't know it's goodbye.
Speaker 1: They know it and you don't. Do you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, because I'm Charlotte, right, it's some level, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So I'm thinking that this
Speaker 1: must mean it's going to be good now that we're okay,
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that it's like good by sex,
Speaker 1: which is awful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's honest, but it's awful.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's honest if you don't say it.
Speaker 4: I just mean like, of course she of course they
Speaker 4: would want like there was no closure, and he has
Speaker 4: no ability to give them any closure because he's such
Speaker 4: he has just like no, you know, he's a lot
Speaker 4: of growing to do totally, and so if if this
Speaker 4: is the only kind of closure that's being offered, like
Speaker 4: I would, I would understand, do you I mean I
Speaker 4: do if I was Carrie and I was in that
Speaker 4: kind of a web.
Speaker 1: Yes, she has a lot more understanding than I, personally
Speaker 1: Kristen would ever have in that moment, because then she's
Speaker 1: sitting there in her fantastic black bra in the morning,
Speaker 1: and he says, what are you doing over there? And
Speaker 1: she's she's sitting there and me hearing her voice over
Speaker 1: that she feels tied to the chair and she can't
Speaker 1: get up because she knows it's over, yeah, and that
Speaker 1: she wants He says, come back, and she says, well,
Speaker 1: I want to, but I can't. It's so good, really good,
Speaker 1: And I so admire her Carrie's understanding, but also Sarah
Speaker 1: Jessica's abilities in that scene to convey such emotion without
Speaker 1: conveying it on her face.
Speaker 4: Yeah do you mean?
Speaker 1: Hm, like you can feel it all. But she's not
Speaker 1: exhibiting it for him, you know what I'm saying. She's
Speaker 1: protecting herself in the scene.
Speaker 4: But you as a viewer, No, were the this is
Speaker 4: my other fan question, I promise the last year, right, No,
Speaker 4: were the voiceovers already recorded so that like you know,
Speaker 4: in the middle of the scene, someone say something and
Speaker 4: then you'll take time to think while we hear Sarah
Speaker 4: say something, and then the like she has to then
Speaker 4: match the timing once the cut's already there.
Speaker 1: Yes, So basically when you'd read the script, they'd be.
Speaker 4: There, so we know what's being said, Yeah, we just
Speaker 4: don't hear it yet correct.
Speaker 1: And then she would go later and you'd have to
Speaker 1: ask Michael Patrick and Sarah And I think I should
Speaker 1: ask them at some point how often they changed them
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Do you know mean that would be interesting once you
Speaker 4: see what you have. Yeah, But that's what I was
Speaker 4: gonna say, Especially in this moment at the end, it's
Speaker 4: like there's such a good synergy between like what she
Speaker 4: knows we're hearing and what she's giving to him, right.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of that is her incredible abilities,
Speaker 1: you know, and incredibly deep thinking on where Carrie's at
Speaker 1: and what Carrie's doing, and the sinking between Michael Patrick
Speaker 1: and her and Darren too. I can't remember at what
Speaker 1: point he's how active he is at this point, but
Speaker 1: like even still ongoing, like they have a lot of
Speaker 1: private conversations about about this and kind of planning and discussing,
Speaker 1: and Michael Patrick was always very including to all of us, like,
Speaker 1: even if none of us have credits except for Sarah
Speaker 1: at this point, and I think she's just executive consultant.
Speaker 2: Which is kind of a made up title, you know.
Speaker 1: But even when we had no titles, he would always
Speaker 1: come to us and say, this is the arc, and
Speaker 1: this is what I'm thinking, and this is where I
Speaker 1: want you to be thinking about going emotionally, and you know,
Speaker 1: very inclusive in terms of that, which is an actor
Speaker 1: so helpful. And then sometimes it would change, but as
Speaker 1: a character, you didn't know that change was coming, so
Speaker 1: it was actually great. Yeah, yeah, and you call you like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was supposed to have a baby when Miranda's also
Speaker 1: having a baby, and then it didn't, I know, and
Speaker 1: then it didn't.
Speaker 4: That would have been such a different timeline, I know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I love what it ended up being, but
Speaker 4: I mean too.
Speaker 1: But at the time I was really mad at him,
Speaker 1: so I was like, no, she wants this, She's got ahead.
Speaker 1: What do you mean because I couldn't separate right from myself.
Speaker 4: You have such love and empathy for her, you want
Speaker 4: her to get what she wants, and she wanted it,
Speaker 4: so it was even more exactly it.
Speaker 3: Worked out as it should.
Speaker 1: But he originally the idea was to contrast how that
Speaker 1: you would mother. Yeah, and then what he said to me, right,
Speaker 1: we still got that eventually, definitely.
Speaker 3: And when he said to me, when you're at the.
Speaker 4: Bar talking about motherhood, yes, I love that.
Speaker 2: Seems so much.
Speaker 1: Yes, But at the time he said to me, because
Speaker 1: I don't think any of our other writers, all of
Speaker 1: whom were women, by the time we get to those storylines,
Speaker 1: no one had children yet. And he said to me,
Speaker 1: we don't have enough storyline to do two because we
Speaker 1: don't have kids yet.
Speaker 4: That's good to be us about writing. What you know
Speaker 4: is a good right, it's a good thing, exactly.
Speaker 1: You're such a joy.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. This has been like my dream,
Speaker 4: so fun, and thank you for answering all my questions.
Speaker 1: Let me interview you are a font of knowledge and
Speaker 1: I so appreciate it.
Speaker 4: And you're going to need the formative very special gift.
Speaker 4: This show has brought a lot of community in I know,
Speaker 4: another like another show for you to be on sounds
Speaker 4: good internet.
Speaker 1: Have you ever met Michael Patrick?
Speaker 4: Uh randomly, I think I got a restaurant. Got it
Speaker 4: justin said, you know, I'm a huge fan, but not
Speaker 4: we've never really sat down.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm keeping a list. Let's just make sure we
Speaker 1: officially ask you.
Speaker 2: Are you a Charlotte.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm very much as.
Speaker 1: Because how many people have written a song basically based
Speaker 1: on their on their charlotteness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I kind of win the crown.
Speaker 1: I think you totally do well done, well done, well done,
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.
Speaker 4: Oh I got of course.
Speaker 1: E