Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today's episode on Pebble Beach in the US Open is
Speaker 1: brought to you by our friends over at b dratty.
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Speaker 1: And exciting week they are in the merchandise tent, So
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Speaker 1: to the b Dratty boys in the merchandise tent. So
Speaker 1: today's episode we sit down with Garrett Morrison, who is
Speaker 1: the news hire the Fried Egg. So Garrett is a
Speaker 1: now our managing editor and will be starting He just
Speaker 1: started in June, so expect to see a lot more
Speaker 1: content from Garrett. He will be writing, he will be
Speaker 1: editing my hack words, and he will be kind of
Speaker 1: building out more editorial for The Fried Egg. So should
Speaker 1: have a lot more new stuff coming on the fried
Speaker 1: egg dot com and enhance a lot of the stuff
Speaker 1: that we're already doing with the newsletter and podcast and
Speaker 1: content in general. So very excited to have Garrett on
Speaker 1: and excite for you guys to hear his thoughts on
Speaker 1: Pebble He's lived out here for the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: teaching at the Stevenson School, which is actually inside the
Speaker 1: gates of Pebble Beach. So without further ado, here is
Speaker 1: Garrett Morrison and our first of our pods from Pebble Beach.
Speaker 2: I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset when
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker. I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a brid egg
Speaker 2: Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egridagg bride egg Lie,
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run.
Speaker 1: Off of the course. So you're moving to Oregon?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's exciting.
Speaker 1: Portland area.
Speaker 2: Portland area just outside of Portland, in a town called
Speaker 2: Happy Valley. And we could afford to buy a house there,
Speaker 2: which was the main motive to move away from Pebble Beach,
Speaker 2: which is not a place where we can buy a house.
Speaker 2: And so we are packing up all our stuff and
Speaker 2: going north.
Speaker 1: That's exciting. What have you ever been? Have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of that mcmhimon's pub course, Edgefield?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have.
Speaker 1: I went on a bachelor party there, like my best
Speaker 1: friends bachelor party group of like college buddies that aren't
Speaker 1: real golfers, and we had like the best time, Like
Speaker 1: you know, we had guys that never played golf that
Speaker 1: were like having a great time and it was so neat.
Speaker 1: It was like one of the coolest places I've ever bet.
Speaker 2: What's the course?
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, it's not anything great, but it's just
Speaker 1: like so approachable. You you walk in and the you know,
Speaker 1: the bar is like the clubhouse, and I think it
Speaker 1: costs a dollar to rend a golf ball, but then
Speaker 1: they give you, you know, just a putter and a
Speaker 1: wedge and the longest hole is like seventy yards and
Speaker 1: it plays like straight up hills and straight down hills.
Speaker 1: There's some blind shots and this little par three and
Speaker 1: you know, you hit off mats. But it was it
Speaker 1: was so easy to play, you know, and so fun
Speaker 1: because like I think we spent spend like three hours there,
Speaker 1: and you get any non golfer out somewhere for three
Speaker 1: hours on golf course. It's kind of a big success, right.
Speaker 2: I like incidental golf. That's sort of incidental golf. Like
Speaker 2: you you go to a place to to drink some
Speaker 2: beer and oh, hey there's a golf course there, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe we should play, and people are into it, right,
Speaker 2: who wouldn't normally be into playing golf.
Speaker 1: They have an eleven hole course and a twenty two
Speaker 1: hole course. Really yeah, and then it's like they do
Speaker 1: like mcmenumons, I think, like a distillery brewery right type place.
Speaker 2: Yes it is. Yeah, there are other locations in Portland.
Speaker 2: They're like city locations of mcmentimon's it's a whole thing.
Speaker 1: I think this one's edge shield. Okay, you gotta check
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely for sure. Yeah, there are some good places
Speaker 2: in Portland. It's an interesting golf town because there's like
Speaker 2: a variety of courses. There are the kind of serious
Speaker 2: eighteen hole courses that you would expect to be there,
Speaker 2: but then there are a few places here and there
Speaker 2: that are just kind of funky. In Oregon in general,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of pasture golf. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: backyard golf, just families, random people who have built golf
Speaker 2: courses on their land. And there's the Portland Children's course
Speaker 2: that Seamus is working on right now that might be
Speaker 2: pretty cool eventually. And so it is a really interesting
Speaker 2: like golf area because of the different options available, and
Speaker 2: it's a little bit undiscovered up there, even though Bandon
Speaker 2: is in the same state.
Speaker 1: I feel like the whole Pacific Northwest is undiscovered. Yeah,
Speaker 1: outside of like the places that have had a budget
Speaker 1: to pay for marketing and pr Like, you know, everybody
Speaker 1: knows about Sylvie's because they did it massive PR thing
Speaker 1: when they opened Gamble Sands. You know, they they push hard.
Speaker 1: But then there's all kinds of places like that, you know,
Speaker 1: Wine Valley, that all the Dan Hickson stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you have all that Chandler Egan. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be You're gonna be deep in Chandler Egan.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna it's is gonna grow, Yeah, because I you know,
Speaker 2: Chandler Egan did the the first nine at Pacific Grove,
Speaker 2: and so I've I've always sort of been interested in him. Obviously,
Speaker 2: he did the work at Pebble Beach that everybody's obsessed with.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he was located in Oregon for a lot
Speaker 2: of his you know, kind of golf architecture career. There's
Speaker 2: just a ton of Chandler Eagan courses around and he
Speaker 2: did some interesting work. For sure.
Speaker 1: He's from Chicago, you know, Chicago neks.
Speaker 2: It always goes back to Chicago.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, everybody tries to move into these
Speaker 1: gates here at seventeen mile Drive. You're moving out, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you know, the reason I'm here is complicated.
Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a teacher at a boarding school, or
Speaker 2: I was a teacher at a boarding school, I suppose
Speaker 2: I should say. And so we moved here because I
Speaker 2: got this job, and because we decided to live on
Speaker 2: campus and I was a member of the residential faculty,
Speaker 2: and so we live here for free essentially, which sounds
Speaker 2: like a really good deal, and it definitely is a
Speaker 2: really good deal. But it's the only reason that we're
Speaker 2: able to live here. And so, yeah, it's it's been
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. But I'm also excited about about
Speaker 2: the new adventure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, a lot of listeners probably don't know,
Speaker 1: you know that if they don't, if they're not on Twitter,
Speaker 1: if they aren't you know, reading the website all the time.
Speaker 1: Garrett is our new managing editor of The Friday eg.
Speaker 1: We're growing, It's got them from one to two. Got
Speaker 1: a tall task o. We're doubling cleaning up my my
Speaker 1: garbage writing it's not garbage any so, uh, Garrett, I'm
Speaker 1: excited to have him come on here. And uh so
Speaker 1: that's why he's moving from from Pebble Beach, which is uh,
Speaker 1: I almost feel for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's it is kind of a golf mecca, obviously,
Speaker 2: it's and and people have pointed out that irony, You're
Speaker 2: you're you're going off to be a golf writer, a
Speaker 2: golf journalist or whatever, and you're moving away from Pebble Beach.
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem quite right. But it's obviously a great
Speaker 2: place to go on a vacation and to have like
Speaker 2: a once in a lifetime experience. There are a few
Speaker 2: better places for that. But to be a local golfer
Speaker 2: in this area is a little bit weird because there
Speaker 2: are basically two golf courses that you can play on
Speaker 2: a regular basis affordably.
Speaker 1: They don't have a good local right at Pebble.
Speaker 2: Beach, the local rate sucks. It's like six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's not a local rate. Yeah. So I've
Speaker 2: played a lot of Pacific Grove Muni, which obviously is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite places in the world, and that's great.
Speaker 2: I play at Monterey Pines a good bit, and those
Speaker 2: are essentially the two courses that you can play on
Speaker 2: a regular basis. You can the local rate at Poppy Hills.
Speaker 2: The NCGA rate is pretty good, but it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm going out to Spyglass every Thursday and playing a
Speaker 2: round of golf. You know, this is this is a
Speaker 2: spot for vacationers. It's not really it's not really a
Speaker 2: golf spot for locals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's ironic, how like you know, if you're
Speaker 1: if you're not a resort guest, like and just the
Speaker 1: whole area, because then once you get out there isn't
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of golf, but there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of golf that's like built for everyday play.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: And you know, like if you're not a member at.
Speaker 3: NPCC, which is one of the most expensive places in
Speaker 3: the world, if you remember right, then you know there's
Speaker 3: there's not much or Cypher's point, there's not much for
Speaker 3: the you know, everyday golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah, the places here
Speaker 2: are built to be destinations, which is really cool. But
Speaker 2: it makes the dynamic of being here and being an
Speaker 2: obsessive golfer as I am, a little bit odd. So
Speaker 2: I'm actually looking forward to the options in Oregon and
Speaker 2: being able to go a number of different places, have
Speaker 2: places to go with my kids. That'll be fun.
Speaker 1: What got you back? You know, I know you kind
Speaker 1: of stopped playing golf when you were in grad school
Speaker 1: and you you know, fell kind of away from golf.
Speaker 1: What got you back into golf?
Speaker 2: I got back into golf after moving here and just
Speaker 2: sort of taking walks around the area with my son,
Speaker 2: who was a baby at the time, so I'd have
Speaker 2: them in the stroller and i'd be taking these walks
Speaker 2: around the Pebble Beach area, which is where the school
Speaker 2: I work at is located. Basically, this school is between
Speaker 2: Spyglass Hill and Poppy Hills and Pebble Beaches just down
Speaker 2: the road. So when i'd go out in the stroller
Speaker 2: and take these walks, I'd see these awesome golf courses
Speaker 2: and they seemed a little bit unattainable, but I of
Speaker 2: course knew about them because I had been into golf
Speaker 2: when I was younger, and I had specifically been into
Speaker 2: golf course architecture, and so I had studied these courses
Speaker 2: in a way and kind of knew them, and it
Speaker 2: was cool to see them in person, just walking around
Speaker 2: the neighborhood. Then one day I was down in Pacific
Speaker 2: Grove again taking a walk with my son in the stroller,
Speaker 2: and I was at a Silmar State beach, which has
Speaker 2: a great stretch of paths along the ocean, and I
Speaker 2: was pushing him along one of these paths, and Pacific
Speaker 2: Grove Golf Links came into view the back nine at
Speaker 2: Pacific Grove Golf Links, which is routed through these natural dunes,
Speaker 2: and I just thought that it looked amazing. It looked accessible,
Speaker 2: it looked like a place that I'd feel comfortable walking
Speaker 2: up to and playing, even though I hadn't been out
Speaker 2: on a golf course for a while. And so I
Speaker 2: got interested in playing again. I played a little bit
Speaker 2: at Pacific Grove. There are members of the faculty here
Speaker 2: at this school who are really into golf, and they
Speaker 2: started inviting me out for rounds, and so I got
Speaker 2: my game a little bit back into shape, and pretty
Speaker 2: soon I was completely obsessed with the game again, just
Speaker 2: like I had been when I was twelve years old,
Speaker 2: you know. And so that's essentially how I got back
Speaker 2: into playing. And you know, around late twenty sixteen, started
Speaker 2: a golf Twitter account and began writing about the game,
Speaker 2: and that has snowballed from there.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's get back into it, and everybody, I
Speaker 1: feel like, ever, I think that your story is a
Speaker 1: common because I think so many people once they graduate
Speaker 1: college or go to college, graduate college, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that you know, the obviously there's golf
Speaker 1: nuts that never fall out of it, but like there
Speaker 1: are a lot of golf nuts that fall out of
Speaker 1: it because like early on in life, it becomes if
Speaker 1: you live in a city very difficult, or if you're
Speaker 1: in grad school like or once you're in college, like
Speaker 1: college was probably the time I played the least amount
Speaker 1: of golf, yes, and and right after college because like
Speaker 1: it's just it's expensive and it's hard to find the
Speaker 1: time at that time in your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I basically didn't play at all between
Speaker 2: ages twenty and thirty two, and I never even have
Speaker 2: the impulse to go play. And yeah, I think part
Speaker 2: of it was the cost, and also part of it
Speaker 2: was just none of my friends played golf, right, Nobody
Speaker 2: I knew who is my age, who was in their
Speaker 2: twenties played golf. And that definitely changed once I started
Speaker 2: working here and a lot of my friends were in
Speaker 2: their thirties and forties, and part of what they would
Speaker 2: do on the weekends sometimes is go out, find a
Speaker 2: group and play golf. Uh, And so that gets you
Speaker 2: back into it. But yeah, when I was in graduate school,
Speaker 2: I was in graduate school at Northwestern so in Evanston,
Speaker 2: which is just north of Chicago, and and there's that's
Speaker 2: where Canal Shores is, and you know there's some cool,
Speaker 2: affordable options around there. Obviously, you know the golf well
Speaker 2: in the area, but nobody I knew was going out
Speaker 2: to those golf courses except for a couple of professors
Speaker 2: here and there, and so I think that's a big
Speaker 2: reason why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It's it's hard to go play
Speaker 1: by yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So with uh, with you've been you're the local here,
Speaker 1: mm hmm. We got this week, we got a big
Speaker 1: tournament going on here. You know, I know you're moving,
Speaker 1: but there's an influx of people in Monterey.
Speaker 2: There seemed to be. The population seems to have increased recently.
Speaker 2: Traffic's a little worse, right right, traffic has become a nightmare.
Speaker 1: So what uh, what are your impressions? I know, you
Speaker 1: know you've you've been out at Pebble you you covered,
Speaker 1: you were out there for the at and T you
Speaker 1: played a media day, and then you've lived here obviously,
Speaker 1: so you've lived on grounds or what, uh, what are
Speaker 1: you expecting this week at the US Open?
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're going to see a classic Pebble
Speaker 2: Beach US Open basically If there's not a whole lot
Speaker 2: of weather, the golf course will still be challenging, but
Speaker 2: relatively benign compared to say, Shinnecock Hills last year. And
Speaker 2: if we do get a little bit of wind, it'll
Speaker 2: get nasty really quickly. You know. The golf course is hard.
Speaker 2: It's obviously narrow. They've been working on making the rough thicker.
Speaker 2: The greens are presumably going to be going to firm
Speaker 2: out as the as the week goes on. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, essentially it'll be a hard golf course, but
Speaker 2: I think it'll be really familiar to people who have
Speaker 2: seen a lot of Pebble Beach tournaments. You know, they
Speaker 2: haven't done anything radical out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think one of the things with Pebble
Speaker 1: is that it's the venue that requires like the least
Speaker 1: almost work from the USGA, because they know how it is.
Speaker 1: They you know, they've come here so many times that
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they do this, and they do this,
Speaker 1: and then they're kind of set and ready to go.
Speaker 1: What what are your kind of general thoughts with how
Speaker 1: they present the course for this week.
Speaker 2: So they have obviously brought in the mowing lines a lot,
Speaker 2: you know, that's the main difference that you'll see see
Speaker 2: between how pebble beach is presented normally during the pro
Speaker 2: am and how pebble beach is presenting during the during
Speaker 2: the US Open. And so it's a couple of the
Speaker 2: holes look a little awkward as a result, and you'll
Speaker 2: see bunkers kind of lost in the rough. You'll see
Speaker 2: holes that just seem like they should be wider, using
Speaker 2: rough as a as a penalty. And so that's the
Speaker 2: main setup move that I've seen out there. It was
Speaker 2: just like this during the pro am, right, So they
Speaker 2: they the USGA came in and started doing its work
Speaker 2: a while ago. I believe we saw it during the
Speaker 2: US Amateur like this as well.
Speaker 1: Right, that's when, right when they had started, you could
Speaker 1: start to see where they were, yeah, narrowing up, like specifically,
Speaker 1: I remember eleven, which I think that's that's like one
Speaker 1: of the downfalls of it is like I think eleven
Speaker 1: would be, especially with the modern game, the way it
Speaker 1: is one of the most compelling holes. If the you know,
Speaker 1: when people watch pebble this week, you can look at
Speaker 1: eleven and you can say, wow, that fairway should be
Speaker 1: double the size at least maybe maybe two and a
Speaker 1: half times the size. And you look at this and
Speaker 1: it's a you know, it's kind of one of those
Speaker 1: three those shortish par fource, which it's not a short
Speaker 1: par force, not driveable, but it's one of those driving
Speaker 1: pitch holes that have become really fascinating. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think, like what's going to happen is people just
Speaker 1: are going to hit iron up the left and you
Speaker 1: know then or you know, fairway would up the left,
Speaker 1: and that's that everybody's going to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: Whereas that green, the way it sits, the angle of
Speaker 1: it and the slopes of it, you have an opportunity
Speaker 1: where driver up the right would leave you a really
Speaker 1: weird shot. But people might pull driver to try and
Speaker 1: get that you know, fifty yards shot because the mentality
Speaker 1: of pros has been banged into their head. Get closer
Speaker 1: whenever you can, and that would be that's like one
Speaker 1: of those holes where it has the counterintuitive ability to
Speaker 1: challenge somebody that that does the status quo.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, So eleven, just to just to describe it, obviously,
Speaker 2: it's a hole that plays uphill. It's about three hundred
Speaker 2: and ninety yards. The green receives shots best from the left.
Speaker 2: There's the green is angled that way, it runs uphill
Speaker 2: that way, and there's a bunker up hill very much. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's a very small grain. I believe the small right.
Speaker 1: To left right over that that's bunker. So if you're
Speaker 1: over on the right, which is now, like you know,
Speaker 1: from where the right edge of the faraway is, there
Speaker 1: should be forty more yards of fairaway exactly, but like
Speaker 1: nobody's going to be over there, and that's where you
Speaker 1: have this really weird shot with the green running away right.
Speaker 2: Well, so the thing that has happened in the setup
Speaker 2: is that they've moved the fairway over to the left,
Speaker 2: as you've suggested right there. So they they've moved it
Speaker 2: to the good angle into the green. Right now, you
Speaker 2: don't really have a choice.
Speaker 1: You have to play a whole They hit it right correct, right.
Speaker 2: Lights here you go. Yeah, and for the twenty ten
Speaker 2: US open, I believe that they did the opposite. They
Speaker 2: moved it over to the right, which is which is
Speaker 2: just sort of subistic. Yeah, exactly, I would. I would.
Speaker 2: You could argue that that's worse, and so maybe it's
Speaker 2: a good move that if they were going to narrow
Speaker 2: that fairway by half that they move it over the
Speaker 2: other direction. But it's a good example of how the
Speaker 2: course becomes slightly less interesting. You know, the eleventh hole
Speaker 2: is not necessarily the most brilliant hole in the world,
Speaker 2: even as it is, but the width of that fairway
Speaker 2: and the way that the green receives from a particular
Speaker 2: angle does introduce at least some sense of lateral strategy.
Speaker 1: See. That's the thing though I think about it, is
Speaker 1: like that's a that hole. And this is something about
Speaker 1: golf courses, like you know, you just get done with
Speaker 1: a six hole stretcher, eight hole stretch on the ocean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: really nine if you count three. So you just go
Speaker 1: through like probably the most brilliant stretching golf and everybody
Speaker 1: will bag on that hole, but I think it's a
Speaker 1: brilliant hole. It plays uphill, it gets it's a connector hole,
Speaker 1: but it's got like you know, you just played like
Speaker 1: you know, you just had you know, if you wanted
Speaker 1: to compare it to a song, you just had Jimmy
Speaker 1: Hendrix wailing away on the guitar for like, you know,
Speaker 1: three minutes and it's time to just you know, bridge
Speaker 1: something to our next, our next interval, and it provides
Speaker 1: like a really different hole than what you've seen the
Speaker 1: last you know six, where you're playing up a hill,
Speaker 1: you're you know, and you feel like you can get
Speaker 1: one after eight, nine, ten, which is among the hardest
Speaker 1: you know, three hole stretches in golf.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, And so it's gettable, but you can also
Speaker 2: have a hard time on that hole. Don't you think
Speaker 2: it would be would it be more interesting or would
Speaker 2: it be just cliched if there were something actually guarding
Speaker 2: the left side of that hole? So is to make
Speaker 2: the play over to the left less attractive because there's
Speaker 2: currently no reason not to go there.
Speaker 1: Right to me, it seems like so there's there's like
Speaker 1: seventy yards about of width that you could have.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1: So for maybe sense like that would be like a
Speaker 1: great place for a center line bunker that skews left.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's that's what I can And this is
Speaker 2: a great example of the Pebble Beach discussion that a
Speaker 2: lot of people interested in golf course architecture have. It's
Speaker 2: a great course, like to be clear, Pebble Beach is amazing,
Speaker 2: but there's this impulse that I have, and I try
Speaker 2: to fight against it a little bit, not to nitpick
Speaker 2: everything that I think is wrong with the course because
Speaker 2: it's so brilliant and because it's in such a great setting,
Speaker 2: and because it also falls short in its presentation in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. You at least I have this
Speaker 2: tendency to go around thinking about what could be and
Speaker 2: to ignore what's actually there. The eleventh is a good example,
Speaker 2: because I just said a couple of minutes ago, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's that brilliant of a hole, and maybe
Speaker 2: it's not fully what it could be, but it's a
Speaker 2: good hole, yeah, well placed in the.
Speaker 1: Round, yeah. Like and for the land that it goes,
Speaker 1: you know, probably it jounts across some of the least
Speaker 1: interesting land on the golf course, and it's very you know, simple.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, two would be an example of
Speaker 1: some of the least interesting land on the golf course.
Speaker 1: And they have one of the boldest you know, they
Speaker 1: have some of the boldest stuff there with that, surely
Speaker 1: Sahara Bunker And what do you what do you think
Speaker 1: about in general? So like a lot of people will
Speaker 1: be like, oh, the inland holes aren't that great?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think that just saying in a blanket
Speaker 2: way the inland holes aren't great is an impoverished take
Speaker 2: like that that's not If you play those holes, you
Speaker 2: see that at least some of them are obviously really good.
Speaker 2: Some of my favorites would be three. I mean, if
Speaker 2: we're considering that an inland hole, but that's a really
Speaker 2: good hole. Thirteen is one of my favorites uphill par
Speaker 2: four with you know, a fair way and a green
Speaker 2: that used the slopes of the land in really good ways.
Speaker 2: Sixteen is a fun hole to play. You know, there
Speaker 2: are a lot of interesting inland holes that if you
Speaker 2: just take them for what they are and don't try
Speaker 2: to compare them to what's on the cliffs, are great holes.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I do think that there are
Speaker 2: some weak inland holes right now and some just okay ones,
Speaker 2: and maybe that's a little bit disappointing, but it also
Speaker 2: serves as a contrast for what's out on the cliffs.
Speaker 2: So I don't think twelve is a great hole. I
Speaker 2: don't think fifteen is a great hole. In fact, fifteen
Speaker 2: really could use some work right now.
Speaker 1: But they've got a couple of pop bunkers out there.
Speaker 1: That just like it's like, what where, where did this
Speaker 1: come from?
Speaker 2: Arnold Palmer believe, I think is more of a rhetorical question.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm glad that you gave any the
Speaker 1: exact answer. But like you know, they just pop up
Speaker 1: and you're like, wait, this doesn't really fit here. It
Speaker 1: doesn't fit the style. It's like the stylistic and that's
Speaker 1: like the one of the crazy things to me is
Speaker 1: that of you know, a place like this should have,
Speaker 1: if anything, it should have eye candy. It should be
Speaker 1: like the most eye candy spot in the world, right
Speaker 1: But from a from a golf architecture standpoint, it couldn't
Speaker 1: be further from eye candy. It's like I I source
Speaker 1: all the way around with like there's mismatched bunkers, there's
Speaker 1: you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Just a field of bunkers out there, and those all
Speaker 2: appeared in the first decade of the two thousands. In
Speaker 2: the first decade of the twenty first century, that whole
Speaker 2: used to have very minimalistic bunkering. In fact, it didn't
Speaker 2: really have any fairway bunkers. There was maybe one about
Speaker 2: thirty yards short of the green and a couple of
Speaker 2: green side but of course Pebble Beach started getting anxious
Speaker 2: about how it was being played by the pros by
Speaker 2: one pro by one pro in particular, crazy thing one
Speaker 2: pro Yeah, yeah, initials t W Yeah. It's the way
Speaker 2: that he was playing the course freaked him out, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, all these bunkers appeared. The reaction
Speaker 2: was to add bunkers rather than add length, because there's
Speaker 2: not much more length to be added out there. A
Speaker 2: lot of bunkers appeared in the first decade of the
Speaker 2: two thousands, and not just on that hole, but other holes.
Speaker 2: If you just look at the Google Earth historical imagery,
Speaker 2: you'll see the response to the distance explosion and to Tiger.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think it kind of changed the
Speaker 1: ethos of the course in the sense of like it
Speaker 1: went from a course that was challenging in a very
Speaker 1: subtle and nuanced form, where the challenge came from these
Speaker 1: small greens. That those small greens really freak out really
Speaker 1: good players more so than the average player, because the
Speaker 1: average players only going to hit a handful means every round,
Speaker 1: and then you throw in uneven lives, which a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know, if I'm playing with a twenty handicap.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, you know you chunk that because
Speaker 1: the ball was like three inches above your feet, so
Speaker 1: you should just joke up, you know, because the club
Speaker 1: was way too long, And they're like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: even realize that, And like I think about it because
Speaker 1: like if I have a wedge from from like a
Speaker 1: side hill lie with the three inches above, I'm like
Speaker 1: freaking out. I'm like thinking, like how far right am
Speaker 1: I aiming? Because the ball goes way left off this
Speaker 1: lie with a high lofted club, you know. And this
Speaker 1: is like the type of challenge that pebble presents is
Speaker 1: you never have a flat lie and you're hitting into
Speaker 1: these little tiny targets, and by by narrowing and adding bunkers,
Speaker 1: it just removes some of the thought from it because
Speaker 1: it just started to become more of a uniform. This
Speaker 1: is hit it here, hit it here, hit it here,
Speaker 1: test right.
Speaker 2: I think that's true. And covering some of the fit
Speaker 2: faway and rough covers up some of the most severe
Speaker 2: lies that you might have in the fairway.
Speaker 1: That's a great point.
Speaker 2: Adding bunkers in addition to that, on both sides of
Speaker 2: the green and both sides of the fairways removes some
Speaker 2: of the places where you might play your ball and
Speaker 2: get in trouble. You know, a common move in the
Speaker 2: first decade of the twenty first century at Pebble Beach
Speaker 2: was to add a bunker on the other side of
Speaker 2: the green, or add a bunker on the other side
Speaker 2: of the fairway when there was already a bunker just
Speaker 2: on one side of the fairway. At a lot of
Speaker 2: holes at Pebble Beach, there would be that bunker on
Speaker 2: one side of the fairway and a bunker on one
Speaker 2: side of the green. That would dictate the strategy of
Speaker 2: the hole. You know, play close to the bunkers and
Speaker 2: you'll have better angles. By adding bunkers on both sides.
Speaker 2: Your vision is directed at the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 2: A lot of the times you're not trying to play
Speaker 2: to the edges so much. And when you don't play
Speaker 2: to the edges, you're not getting some of those crazy
Speaker 2: bad angles that you might have found previously.
Speaker 1: It's something that it like narrows your focus. Like it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the things that and
Speaker 1: you see it when you play say a Tom Doak
Speaker 1: or like a Billcourr course, and I remember you know,
Speaker 1: it's like when you leave, when they leave a side
Speaker 1: of the green open your view, your eye gets drawn
Speaker 1: there because really good golfers think about where they can miss,
Speaker 1: and if you have less places you can miss, it
Speaker 1: narrows your focus in a way, if that makes sense totally.
Speaker 2: And a good example is the fourth hole, Yeah, Kevin
Speaker 2: Moore has talked about this on Twitter, where that fairway
Speaker 2: is normally very wide. It extends out to the left
Speaker 2: away from the cliffs, and when the fairway is that wide,
Speaker 2: you're thinking, maybe I should go left here, Maybe I
Speaker 2: should play an iron toward that bunker out to the
Speaker 2: left instead of risking the cliffs and on that whole,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's that good of a play. I
Speaker 2: think you should probably just hit it up the gut
Speaker 2: and let the slope of the fairway take your ball
Speaker 2: a little bit to the right. And it's really not
Speaker 2: that risky of a shot. You'd have to hit a
Speaker 2: really bad shot to end up on the beach. So
Speaker 2: when they take that left portion of the fairway away,
Speaker 2: you're just thinking, that's my option. I better just put
Speaker 2: it up that part of the fairway. I don't have
Speaker 2: the option to play left and so now everybody's going
Speaker 2: to be approaching the hole in what's probably the strategically
Speaker 2: or the tactically correct.
Speaker 1: Way, and its homogenizes the product of the golf.
Speaker 2: I agree with that at the same time, so we're
Speaker 2: saying all these things that could be better, So we've fallen.
Speaker 1: Into the track exactly. I know.
Speaker 2: I know that. I know that. So I want to
Speaker 2: ask you. I know that the take that Pebble Beach
Speaker 2: is overrated annoys.
Speaker 1: You a little bit, right, yeah, it does, so expand
Speaker 1: on that a little bit. Well, I think it's in
Speaker 1: terms of when I think about overrated golf, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think Pebble Beach falls into the category of
Speaker 1: necessarily overrated. Maybe it's a little high for where it
Speaker 1: should be in the rankings, right, I guess that's in
Speaker 1: terms overrated. But that's with we're talking about rankings, you know,
Speaker 1: like and that's talking about rankings, which is like, you know,
Speaker 1: the worst thing to be talking about, because like I
Speaker 1: think it's just completely trivial to rank. Of course, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, well, like my ranking is going to change
Speaker 1: every day of the week. Like if you ask me tomorrow,
Speaker 1: like I'll have a different favorite course in Chicago, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you ask me the next day, I might
Speaker 1: go with somebody else. It just depends on what mood.
Speaker 1: But anyways, like with Pebble, Like I mean, it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's a it's an unbelievable golf course with an unbelieving
Speaker 1: like the the assets the golf course has, which we've
Speaker 1: already touched on, like the incredible land movement and the
Speaker 1: routing the way it uses it, you know that and
Speaker 1: the greens you know, are diabolical, like the golf course
Speaker 1: at its core. And and this is maybe part of
Speaker 1: why I think this way, is that I'm always a dreamer.
Speaker 1: I like I dream and I think past like I'm
Speaker 1: able to be like, well, they can just scrooce that up,
Speaker 1: They'll fix that. And I think about what a golf
Speaker 1: course could be a lot of times rather than what
Speaker 1: it is in this current state. But but Pebble Beach
Speaker 1: is a just I think, like a masterclass in like
Speaker 1: the why you know, the inability to move dirt has
Speaker 1: yielded the best you know, the inability to move dirt
Speaker 1: at a massive scale yielded the best golf courses because
Speaker 1: the lay of the land like and so many had
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach gotten built fifty years later like one of
Speaker 1: its neighbors, we would see a lot of flat fairways,
Speaker 1: like we would see this incredible topography on these sand
Speaker 1: dunes flattened now, Like there are a lot of things
Speaker 1: that they could do. And but like at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, like the I always think back to
Speaker 1: the business side of it. It's like they are jammed
Speaker 1: and filled every every day regardless of what they do,
Speaker 1: which is crazy.
Speaker 2: Why would they change anything?
Speaker 1: Like what so like why would you change if this
Speaker 1: is that that being said? Like why you know, my
Speaker 1: pitch to him to change would be like listen, like
Speaker 1: your golf course, the architecture, the look of it doesn't
Speaker 1: fit the vibe of what you're trying to do, like
Speaker 1: you know, like anybody that has an eye for golf architecture.
Speaker 1: I mean it would be like if you put like
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventies you know, if you replace the lodge
Speaker 1: with like nineteen seventies like you know, architecture, you know,
Speaker 1: cookie cutter architecture. You know, if you put that building there,
Speaker 1: like and maybe that's the way you would have to
Speaker 1: pitch them is that superimposed, you know, nineteen seventies, designed
Speaker 1: like urban building in the lodge's position, and say this
Speaker 1: is what your golf course is. To anybody that has
Speaker 1: a clue about golf course architecture, you know, this is
Speaker 1: the way it's being presented, but from like the idea
Speaker 1: of the of the golf course, the decisions, the way
Speaker 1: it makes golfers feel. And the one thing I will
Speaker 1: say is I played in this I played in this
Speaker 1: event this spring with a group of skill level players
Speaker 1: and we played all three resort courses, Spanish Bay, Spyglass,
Speaker 1: and Pebble. We had a fifteen handicap in the group.
Speaker 1: And the place that the fifteen handicap had clearly the
Speaker 1: best chance and clearly like played the best, you know,
Speaker 1: was Pebble Beach. And I thought about it. I've thought
Speaker 1: about it a ton. You know, there was the least
Speaker 1: like obvious hazards out there. You know, he could run
Speaker 1: the ball up onto greens, missing short, which is where
Speaker 1: you know, a fifteen handicap misses more than long almost
Speaker 1: never gets you in trouble, you know, like, and then
Speaker 1: he could pitch up and make putts, and he gets
Speaker 1: on the green, he could make putts and to me
Speaker 1: that's something he played by far the best at Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach and compared to the other two. And then you know,
Speaker 1: we played Cypress the next day. He played really well
Speaker 1: at Cypress, but at Spanish Bay he played very well
Speaker 1: for a little stretch, but then like the wind picked
Speaker 1: up and you could tell he had no hope. And
Speaker 1: at Spyglass he had no hope all day. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just beating him over the head with the
Speaker 1: same you know, asking him to hit the ball further
Speaker 1: than he could and higher and longer than he could
Speaker 1: all day. And to me, that's the brilliant of Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach because at Pebble Beach I was the most uncomfortable
Speaker 1: I was at any of the courses because I was
Speaker 1: always like fidgety about oh this lie, I don't really
Speaker 1: like this webshot, like this just seems like and you
Speaker 1: I just like you're thinking about all the places you
Speaker 1: can miss it because of that lie, like you know,
Speaker 1: you when you when you if you make it more simulation,
Speaker 1: which is I think what we see. We can week
Speaker 1: out on tour a lot, not necessarily like last week.
Speaker 1: We were actually a good stretch of tour golf lately
Speaker 1: like a sneaky good stretch between Colonial we had Byron,
Speaker 1: we have Hamilton.
Speaker 2: It's a good time of year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we've had a good stretch. But like for
Speaker 1: the most part, we see like if you just took
Speaker 1: these guys from the range and put them on a
Speaker 1: golf course, that's what we're seeing. And like Pebble Beach
Speaker 1: is like the complete antithesis of that. Like if I
Speaker 1: was getting ready for Pebble Beach, like I'd be hitting
Speaker 1: a lot of sidehill lie shots, right and like getting
Speaker 1: in Like that's like the complete opposite of what you
Speaker 1: do on a driving range.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, Well, if you're if you spend most of
Speaker 2: your time on a drive range, you'll find yourself really
Speaker 2: frustrated at Pebble Beach. And to return to your point
Speaker 2: earlier about how if Pebble Beach were built fifty years later,
Speaker 2: everything would be flattened. I think that's really true because
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach is built on this slope, right, everything slopes
Speaker 2: toward the ocean, and it's really consistent, and so probably
Speaker 2: the thought of a modern architect would be, well, this
Speaker 2: is not ideal. There's not much variety inherent in this
Speaker 2: movement of the land. There might be some unfair lies
Speaker 2: in the fairway. We better flatten at least a few
Speaker 2: of these, and then the golf course would have suffered
Speaker 2: as a result. But because they couldn't do that, in
Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen, Jack Neville and Douglas Grant just found ways
Speaker 2: to use that slope in many, many different ways. If
Speaker 2: you go through the golf holes at Pebble Beach, you'll
Speaker 2: see a pretty balanced variety of ball below your feet
Speaker 2: lies and ball above your feet lies. You'll get just
Speaker 2: about as many of one as the other. Some holes
Speaker 2: go uphill, some holes go downhill, and.
Speaker 1: That is kind of like that speaks to the brilliant,
Speaker 1: the unseen brilliance of the inland holes in a way,
Speaker 1: because they balance the the on the water holes that
Speaker 1: mostly play in one direction with the left to right
Speaker 1: ball below your feet.
Speaker 2: Lies, Yeah, you have fade lies on or for a
Speaker 2: right hand or you have fade lies on six, eight, nine,
Speaker 2: and ten. And then when you go back the other direction,
Speaker 2: it's playing across the slope in another direction, and you
Speaker 2: have a lot of for a right hand or draw lies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's balanced out there, and so the routing. You know,
Speaker 2: the routing of Pebble Beach gets a lot of attention.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's widely regarded as a great routing,
Speaker 2: but it's thought of as a great routing primarily because
Speaker 2: of how many holes it's able to get out on
Speaker 2: the water. But that's not at all why it it's
Speaker 2: a great routing. It's because of how the holes play
Speaker 2: and how the slopes, the slope of the property is
Speaker 2: incorporated into the strategy of the whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that that idea with the the movement
Speaker 1: of the land is in the in the small targets
Speaker 1: is prevalent at the majority of the golf courses that
Speaker 1: we would consider the great championship golf courses in America. Right, So, Augusta,
Speaker 1: Everybody's going to be like, oh, well, those greens are huge,
Speaker 1: but the targets are tiny, Right, So you.
Speaker 2: Have to hit the right section of the green.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or else you're it's basically like chipping because it's
Speaker 1: going to be very, very very difficult to Tupat Shinnecock,
Speaker 1: the same thing. Tremendous land movement and the greens are big,
Speaker 1: but the targets become smaller, and that not all the
Speaker 1: greens out there are huge, but they're you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, one is like you know you're hitting from
Speaker 1: you know, pretty flat, and one's actually one of the flat.
Speaker 1: But that's a tiny target. Ten you know, you've got
Speaker 1: a a tremendous slope and then that that that green
Speaker 1: just sits there and it's like a tiny little perch
Speaker 1: that you're like, how do I hit it onto this tabletop?
Speaker 1: But with with that, you know that land movement and
Speaker 1: small targets and and what's amazing is like Shinnacock's one
Speaker 1: of the most playable courses for ladies in the world,
Speaker 1: and it's from the beginning one of the most difficult
Speaker 1: golf courses you can put a professional male golfer out onto.
Speaker 2: Right, these courses have stood the test of time, and
Speaker 2: there's a reason why. And so there are a lot
Speaker 2: of lessons that we can learn from Pebble Beach. And
Speaker 2: I think that when you're watching the telecast this weekend,
Speaker 2: what one thing to look at would be how the
Speaker 2: players are addressing the ball, because it doesn't always register immediately.
Speaker 2: You don't always notice that the b is way below
Speaker 2: the feet of a player when you're just watching a telecast,
Speaker 2: but I think you'll be able to tell.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about Pinehurst number two too. It
Speaker 1: does the same thing where you have those tiny little
Speaker 1: targets and the Santels of Carolina has a really nice
Speaker 1: movement to it. So you're hit and you're rarely hitting
Speaker 1: from that flat lie and you're hitting these small, tiny
Speaker 1: targets and that's like and that's another course where people
Speaker 1: are like, why is it, Why can't why can't more courses?
Speaker 1: Why can't we have more championship courses like Pinehurst number
Speaker 1: two And it's like, well, you have to have a
Speaker 1: combination of really great land that people don't, you know,
Speaker 1: try and fiddle with and make fair and then you
Speaker 1: and then have greens that Now for a quick word
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Speaker 1: Member SIPC. Now back to Garrett Morrison. So why why
Speaker 1: this is a bigger question is like why don't we
Speaker 1: have more golf courses built like that?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, the concern with fairness came came
Speaker 2: in in a big way at the same time that
Speaker 2: the ability to move a lot of land came in, right.
Speaker 2: I guess that's it because when when you see these
Speaker 2: fairways that are tilted extremely one direction or the other,
Speaker 2: a lot of people will think, well, I hit it
Speaker 2: in the middle of the fairway and it's not fair
Speaker 2: that I've got the ball way above my feet. And
Speaker 2: so maybe that's one reason. I don't know, do you
Speaker 2: do you? Do you have any theories? Because there are
Speaker 2: only a few of them, right, These big browny championship
Speaker 2: golf courses that have existed for one hundred years and
Speaker 2: somehow are just as challenge for the best players as
Speaker 2: they were years ago.
Speaker 1: I think maybe also not only just fair and I
Speaker 1: bang on fair a lot, but also the I think
Speaker 1: maybe less time and thought went into routing when you
Speaker 1: could move dirt because you weren't thinking about like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is a really you know, tough portion to navigate.
Speaker 1: We could just dynamite and blow this up and reshape
Speaker 1: it is what people thought then, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: we can change the land, so like, you know, we
Speaker 1: can route this however we want, because we can change
Speaker 1: the land versus like, you know, the ability not to
Speaker 1: change the land forces you to, you know, route in
Speaker 1: a certain way.
Speaker 2: It forces you to use some ingenuity. It's the old
Speaker 2: old maxim that restrictions enhance creativity, you know, not not
Speaker 2: the other way around. And there are some restrictions at
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach, right It might seem like they're there, aren't
Speaker 2: because the courses set has such a huge scale. But
Speaker 2: the course doesn't just wander wherever it wants. It basically
Speaker 2: stays in this footprint. And if it were built in
Speaker 2: the modern era, one maybe land would have been moved,
Speaker 2: but also maybe the golf course would have gone just
Speaker 2: wherever it wanted to. And that's what a lot of
Speaker 2: modern golf courses do. They just kind of wander out
Speaker 2: into these places, going wherever they want to go. You know,
Speaker 2: we can make it work. But some of these older
Speaker 2: golf courses that we're talking about had more limited property.
Speaker 2: You had to work with the same set of topographical
Speaker 2: features and use them in a bunch of different ways,
Speaker 2: and that's where their beauty and challenge comes from. You know,
Speaker 2: we've talked before about focal points on golf courses, places
Speaker 2: where holes return to the same portion of the property
Speaker 2: over and over again. You don't get that on golf
Speaker 2: courses that wander off into parts unknown, right you and
Speaker 2: you and Jeff Oglvie talked about this. You only get
Speaker 2: that feeling of returning to the same place and getting
Speaker 2: it to know it again when you have a limited property,
Speaker 2: because you have to do that. And so there are
Speaker 2: just so many ways in which the restrictions that were
Speaker 2: imposed on golf courses built one hundred years ago actually
Speaker 2: created forms of challenge and beauty that you can't just manufacture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that, and I was, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean in Pebble has that where we have some focal
Speaker 1: points and you know, you've got that section where three,
Speaker 1: fourteen six are all kind of like that little point
Speaker 1: there where there's you know, a nice little ravine, and
Speaker 1: then you've got you've got the stretch back where you
Speaker 1: know ten t and twelve like you know, you had
Speaker 1: that certain way and obviously it's a little bit different.
Speaker 1: It's it's got a little bit of an out and
Speaker 1: back like a links land, right, which is which it
Speaker 1: is different. But like obviously they really wanted to maximize
Speaker 1: that coast and and also they had restrictions in terms
Speaker 1: of like the plan because they had to fight for
Speaker 1: it not to be all houses in the first place,
Speaker 1: so they didn't they weren't afforded like you know, the
Speaker 1: ability to play up into the forest or down and
Speaker 1: not that they would wanted to, but you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's it was a great point you just made about
Speaker 1: like the restrictions, because I start to think about it
Speaker 1: because then you you know, we had an era and
Speaker 1: j Blozi told me once and that it was a
Speaker 1: really good comparison. Is like is that in a way
Speaker 1: it almost like followed like how interior design where like
Speaker 1: in the fifties, sixties, seventies, like what was in vogue
Speaker 1: is like houses with very like defined room spaces and
Speaker 1: very closed off like treed like corridored holes would be
Speaker 1: like to find room spaces like this is the kitchen,
Speaker 1: this is the living room, this is the family room.
Speaker 1: But like today, you know, we've gone back to this
Speaker 1: like the most comfortable houses are the kitchen that flows
Speaker 1: into the great room and living room, and that I
Speaker 1: think is a really good But Pebble's always been that
Speaker 1: because like you get out, you know, once you play
Speaker 1: one and two, you hit three, you make the turn
Speaker 1: to four and then four, you're like, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: everything opens up and you're like, whoa, here it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it opens up and you see it for the
Speaker 2: first time when you play those holes along the cliffs,
Speaker 2: and then you see it again when you.
Speaker 1: Come back right, come back on top of.
Speaker 2: You get to review what you have experienced in holes twelve, thirteen, fourteen.
Speaker 2: That view from the fourteenth green is just a great
Speaker 2: way to close out that portion of the golf course,
Speaker 2: and then you're taken over to another part of the
Speaker 2: property to finish up right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't even now that I think about it,
Speaker 1: Like That's another aspect of it being such a great
Speaker 1: championship course is that the intimacy of it, you know,
Speaker 1: like whereas I can't think of a like somewhere I
Speaker 1: love watching championship golf that is like a corridored off,
Speaker 1: like it's very siloed, you know, where like you know,
Speaker 1: somebody's over here, and like it's there's something about where
Speaker 1: when somebody's making a surge in they're five holes ahead
Speaker 1: of the leader who's playing you know, nine and there
Speaker 1: on fourteen, like them them being like in the same vicinity.
Speaker 1: There's something about that. It's like the energy within the tournament.
Speaker 2: If you just stand near the sixth fairway, eighth fairway,
Speaker 2: ninth t that area, and fourteen is kind of running
Speaker 2: by those holes a little bit up the slope, you'll
Speaker 2: see a ton of stuff. It's it's a hub of activity, right,
Speaker 2: And that's of course where they at the patron tent
Speaker 2: and all that all that stuff, But aside from that,
Speaker 2: you'll just see a lot of golf. Right.
Speaker 1: One thing that drove me nuts was the twelfth hole.
Speaker 1: All those trees they.
Speaker 2: Have there along the left side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was looking at it. I was like, God,
Speaker 1: they're just blocking an unbelievable view of the ocean. Like it.
Speaker 1: And this goes back to what I was saying about,
Speaker 1: like how like you know, from an architecture standpoint, like
Speaker 1: almost everything they do is so against their like culture
Speaker 1: as a company, right, Like, yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: It's the same thing behind the third green, right, and
Speaker 2: maybe those are necessary plantings there. There are just these
Speaker 2: hedges that block the first view that you get of
Speaker 2: the ocean coming down that fairway. Yeah, you know, you've
Speaker 2: just got buildings and hedges where they're just used to
Speaker 2: be an open vista. And just imagine teeing off on
Speaker 2: the third hole, right, it's a severe dog leg left
Speaker 2: and it's and you can't really see the ocean yet.
Speaker 2: When you're standing on the third tee, you've just come
Speaker 2: across the road from the second green. You hit your
Speaker 2: te shot and it's kind of a blind tea shot
Speaker 2: because you're going around some trees and you walk out
Speaker 2: onto the fairway and then boom, you look down the
Speaker 2: fairway and you can see all the way to the ocean.
Speaker 2: You can see the seventeenth green out there. Unbelievable part
Speaker 2: of the round, really amazing, adventurous part of the routing,
Speaker 2: and it's a little bit blunted now because of the
Speaker 2: things that block it. And that that that's just presentation.
Speaker 1: That third hole is a great hole.
Speaker 2: It's a really good hole. Yeah, and it's it's all
Speaker 2: about that green orientation. Right. It's a fun drive. You know,
Speaker 2: you can kind of sling it down there and if
Speaker 2: you if you're willing to launch it into the to
Speaker 2: the unknown, you'll definitely get an advantage. And then you've
Speaker 2: got the ball above your feet and you've got a
Speaker 2: green that receives shots best from you know, from a fade,
Speaker 2: you know shape for a right hander. So you've got
Speaker 2: this draw lie and a green that seems to beg
Speaker 2: for a fade.
Speaker 1: What are some other holes other than three that you're
Speaker 1: keen to watch?
Speaker 2: And we've already talked about four. It's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite holes on the golf course and players can approach
Speaker 2: that hole in a number of different ways. During the
Speaker 2: pro am earlier this year, in the final round, Paul
Speaker 2: Casey and Phil Mickelson showed up on that tee. Paul Casey,
Speaker 2: I believe, was leading by two or three and they
Speaker 2: had just kind of, you know, fought to a draw
Speaker 2: on the first three holes, and then they came to
Speaker 2: the fourth tee. Paul Casey played out left conservatively. Phil
Speaker 2: Mickelson pulled out a three wood hit at about three hundred
Speaker 2: yards up the fairway and had a fifty yard pitch
Speaker 2: into the green. He birdied that hole. Paul Casey parted
Speaker 2: and it was off to the races. Phil Micholson ended
Speaker 2: up shooting sixty five and winning the tournament. But I
Speaker 2: thought that that moment on the fourth tee was a
Speaker 2: hinge point in the tournament. You know. It was you
Speaker 2: know a place where.
Speaker 1: That's a hole that you're looking to make a birdie.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, if you want to win the golf tournament.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that. You know, probably plays the three
Speaker 1: seven or something and it's one of those holes like
Speaker 1: it's not quite a three and a half like where
Speaker 1: you it's it, but like the three seven in like
Speaker 1: you know, and the other thing, when you don't make
Speaker 1: a birdie, there's a there's all of a sudden a stress,
Speaker 1: like your stress level, your pulse almost goes up a
Speaker 1: little because you know, you just you didn't get one
Speaker 1: where you could get one.
Speaker 2: And it's the first hole on the cliffs, right, and
Speaker 2: and so there's already that heightened sense of here comes
Speaker 2: the reds.
Speaker 1: Like the psychological thing. Yeah, it gives you, like it
Speaker 1: discomforts you a little when you don't make birdie there
Speaker 1: and then you're on that you're in that exposed cliff
Speaker 1: area where you know, any myth any big myths, right,
Speaker 1: is disastrous. There's something about the psychological aspect of the cliff.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. You know whether or not you want to.
Speaker 1: It's not the same as like a creek.
Speaker 2: Oh no, of course not. Yeah, And this is why
Speaker 2: it's silly when people say, well, if Pebble Beach weren't
Speaker 2: on the ocean, it wouldn't be considered that great of
Speaker 2: a course. Well, it's the whole thing, right, is those
Speaker 2: cliffs and how raw and intimidating they look.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you just don't want to go anywhere near them.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I think it might also be something about like human nature,
Speaker 1: like how you get uncomfortable by cliff side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because you feel like you could fall off. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it and it becomes a mental thing in your swing.
Speaker 2: As much as you might be telling yourself to play
Speaker 2: the right shot in the middle of your swing, your
Speaker 2: body is gonna do something that that you don't want
Speaker 2: it to do. And and for me, the response is
Speaker 2: to hit a lot of balls to the left, away
Speaker 2: from the cliffs.
Speaker 1: That's how. Yeah, I hit it into the my second shot,
Speaker 1: I hit it in to the short on aid like
Speaker 1: short right, and I had to hit the drop from
Speaker 1: the cliff from like just right in front of the cliff,
Speaker 1: and I was like, God, this is really I don't
Speaker 1: like hitting a shot from here. Like I felt like,
Speaker 1: like you're nervous about the club flying out of your hands,
Speaker 1: And you're like, why would I be nervous about a
Speaker 1: club flying out of my hands?
Speaker 2: When has that happened?
Speaker 1: Never happened in my life? Right, But all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm like two feet from a cliff and I feel
Speaker 1: this sensation that you don't. And I that's what made
Speaker 1: me think about like the subliminal thing. And it would
Speaker 1: be interesting to ask, like a mental guy that if
Speaker 1: there's anything to that, sure that's it? This you know
Speaker 1: we've got in two years, we've got Tory pines, which
Speaker 1: like one could say that pebble uses the cliffs so well,
Speaker 1: like because of the way, so you know a lot
Speaker 1: of and I think this is something that would happen
Speaker 1: today if somebody came in a re routed pebble, they'd
Speaker 1: figure out way more ways to get greens on cliffs.
Speaker 1: But we have less playing area on the cliffs. We
Speaker 1: might have more holes on the cliffs if you rerouted it,
Speaker 1: but there'd be less significant playing area on the cliffs. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: where like I know, I've to talked to some people
Speaker 1: where they've said, like, I don't think the routings that
Speaker 1: good because like you're done with they don't They don't
Speaker 1: have as many holes as they could on.
Speaker 2: The cliffs, right, Yeah, because nine and ten are long
Speaker 2: holes that just stretch out and use that whole stretch
Speaker 2: of coastline. But the way they use it is so brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the priority, another architects priority might be I want to
Speaker 2: maximize the views, the number that people could take. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And Pebble does maximize the cliff side playing area for sure,
Speaker 2: and that's part of it. Is the is the vistas
Speaker 2: and the impact of being up there, which can't be discounted.
Speaker 2: That's part of what makes it a great golf course.
Speaker 2: But the way it uses the cliffs, it'd.
Speaker 1: Be interesting to look at like say band and Dunes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: amount of cliffs and like amount of of of legitimate
Speaker 1: playing area on the on the.
Speaker 2: Cliffs, Pebble Beach uses way more. And it's also it's
Speaker 2: a different the coastline is different in its nature. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you get such variety of coastline at Pebble Beach. At Bandon,
Speaker 2: you're up in the stratosphere, right. Those cliffs are huge
Speaker 2: and and there are holes that play along the edges
Speaker 2: of them and and use them brilliantly and everything. But
Speaker 2: at Pebble Beach, what you have is, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: four or five different phases of cliff side playing area
Speaker 2: Four and five are along still Water Cove, which is
Speaker 2: just so beautiful and peaceful. It's like this marine sanctuary.
Speaker 2: There would never be a golf course built there now,
Speaker 2: and and the cliffs are kind of medium sized. And
Speaker 2: then on six you climb up to this the famous
Speaker 2: peninsula out there where you're just way up in the
Speaker 2: air and you're on this spectacular bluff. And then you know,
Speaker 2: from the sixth green you play down to the ocean
Speaker 2: on the seventh and you go across a huge chasm
Speaker 2: on the eighth. So six, seven, and eight have have
Speaker 2: this natural feature of enormous size. Then you get to
Speaker 2: nine and ten and it goes back to kind of
Speaker 2: medium sized cliffs where you're playing along Carmel Beach and
Speaker 2: you see people walking their dogs and you kind of
Speaker 2: get a view of what that town is like out there, Okay,
Speaker 2: and then you go back and then eighteen is right
Speaker 2: on the sea wall, right on the ocean. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: variety of cliff side locations. It's not just all one thing.
Speaker 2: And that's I think what makes Pebble Beach so beautiful
Speaker 2: and interesting is it's not just that it's on the ocean.
Speaker 2: It's that the particular ocean side property that it has
Speaker 2: is more varied, I think than any golf landscape on
Speaker 2: the ocean that I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's in Tory Pines is pretty uniform.
Speaker 2: How high way up high. Yeah, you can't really get
Speaker 2: to the edges in a lot of places at Tory Pines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a great point. I never thought
Speaker 1: about how the the and that plays into the the
Speaker 1: unbelieving this is what you know? That take of like
Speaker 1: Pebble is overrated is like that that plays into like
Speaker 1: that well, that's a that's a kind of a lazy
Speaker 1: take because there's so much like once you get out there,
Speaker 1: Like that's Pebble is overrated is almost a take of
Speaker 1: somebody who hasn't really been to Pebble and like and
Speaker 1: seen what and you know, have a full grasp of
Speaker 1: like what you know is out there, because like you've
Speaker 1: got up and down, you've got side hills, and then
Speaker 1: you have the varied settings of the cliffs and with
Speaker 1: that like still Watercove, it's called still Watercove for a
Speaker 1: for a reason. Right like within you know, just six
Speaker 1: hundred yards that the weather conditions can be like significantly different,
Speaker 1: like the type of wind you're facing, like it, because
Speaker 1: like that is what's really cool is like you get
Speaker 1: out to that point on six and it's just so
Speaker 1: it can be so raw out there, very exposed, yeah
Speaker 1: and versus four and three where it's much more docile
Speaker 1: and yeah and uh, and then you hit that that scape.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's also like an interesting aspect of of pebble,
Speaker 1: which is like how it paces itself in the round
Speaker 1: with the with the component of weather, like where off
Speaker 1: the bat you're you're you're kind of protected, and then
Speaker 1: in the middle of the round it's gonna throw everything
Speaker 1: it's got at you. But then it allows the clothes
Speaker 1: to be less about the weather and more about the
Speaker 1: guy that can survive that. Really you know that that
Speaker 1: when they throw everything in the kitchen sink at you,
Speaker 1: and then it gives you some opportunities coming down the
Speaker 1: stretch to score and finish with you know, some great
Speaker 1: shots that separate you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point. When the wind kicks
Speaker 2: up six, seven, eight, nine, ten, Yeah, it doesn't get
Speaker 2: much harder than that. When the wind is blowing in
Speaker 2: the prevailing direction. Wow, those holes become really really hard
Speaker 2: and really intimidating.
Speaker 1: And I like how it's right in the middle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go through this trial and you come out
Speaker 2: the other side and you have an opportunity for some heroism.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I mean that's it's it's got that that feel.
Speaker 1: Like I think that like Yale has this feel and
Speaker 1: it's it's like it's an adventure in a way. And
Speaker 1: I think the setting of it and the way the
Speaker 1: scale of the land and this is you know scale
Speaker 1: I think gets thrown around way too much. But like
Speaker 1: when we say, when I say scale, like I'm saying
Speaker 1: the enormity of it is that it makes you feel
Speaker 1: like and there's no better depiction of the normandy of
Speaker 1: it than like the picture that you see of a
Speaker 1: guy walking up that six, you know, walking up six
Speaker 1: up the big hill to the green, where like it's
Speaker 1: an adventure to hit a long iron from an uneven
Speaker 1: lie up over that.
Speaker 2: Right, You're not thinking the sixth hole is not necessarily
Speaker 2: about lateral strategy. It's not about the analysis of how
Speaker 2: the architecture is is promoting certain angles. It's just about
Speaker 2: get your ball on the short grass and then have
Speaker 2: the guts to get up that natural landform.
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's like the and that that hole is
Speaker 1: a microcosm of the course where it's an adventure, like
Speaker 1: and you have this start where it's you know, you're
Speaker 1: it's easing you into this and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it just like goes full octane and then you know,
Speaker 1: eighteen's almost like a perfect perfect way to close, because
Speaker 1: then it becomes like, do you have the guts you
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna ask you one last time to
Speaker 1: pull this off, Like you got to take this on
Speaker 1: and you can't bail, right, you have to commit and
Speaker 1: hit this shot. And uh. And that's I think that's
Speaker 1: the thing that's really neat about Pebble Beach is like
Speaker 1: the idea of the journey, right, and that's what golf
Speaker 1: courses that go out and in I think have that
Speaker 1: ability to be a little bit more like that than
Speaker 1: a golf course that has returning nines. There's something about
Speaker 1: like when you go out like, it's not like nine,
Speaker 1: it's not time for a break, Like you're out there
Speaker 1: like and you're you're continuing to go on, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's that's Pebble Who do so what what do you? Uh?
Speaker 1: What are you watching for? From a player perspective.
Speaker 2: Well, at Pebble Beach, I think a lot of different
Speaker 2: players have a chants. You know, at the PGA Championship,
Speaker 2: we talked about how only a few guys could win
Speaker 2: that tournament or really had any chance. I think what
Speaker 2: we'll see here is a setup that will look to
Speaker 2: people in a lot of ways superficially as similar, but
Speaker 2: it's a completely different kind of golf course. And so
Speaker 2: I think that honestly, so many different players could do
Speaker 2: well at Pebble Beach. It just depends on who's striking
Speaker 2: the ball.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: The reason it's so different from beth Page is I
Speaker 2: think pretty simple, it's just a shorter golf course, right, and.
Speaker 1: Are more severe and smaller. Yeah, so where like you
Speaker 1: could be less precise at beth Page and get away
Speaker 1: with it on your approaches.
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, No, you can't get away with any
Speaker 2: kind of leaking shot at Pebble, right if you're hitting
Speaker 2: off one of those hanging lies and you let the
Speaker 2: ball move to much or you don't account for the
Speaker 2: wind enough, then yeah you're dead. So you have to
Speaker 2: be super precise. But you know, Pebble is just going
Speaker 2: to be a touch over seven thousand yards. So this
Speaker 2: is an incredibly small ballpark for these guys. I think
Speaker 2: where where the action might be is not just the
Speaker 2: usual sub suspects. You know, Brooks kept guys probably going
Speaker 2: to do well, you know, I mean, like we're probably
Speaker 2: going to keep picking him until he stops winning every
Speaker 2: other major.
Speaker 1: It's important to like note that, like the the guys
Speaker 1: that hit it really far and really straight are also
Speaker 1: the best players in the world.
Speaker 2: They still have the advance. Dustin Johnson plays well at
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach. Everybody did you know that?
Speaker 1: So I think there we need to like reclassify DJ
Speaker 1: Rory JT. Brooks, Like they shouldn't be termed bombers. They
Speaker 1: should be just termed like they need a different term.
Speaker 2: They're the best players in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like like when you think bomber, think like
Speaker 1: guys who hits it really far, who's ranked fortieth in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So these and and all of those guys
Speaker 2: that you named. It's been said over and over, but
Speaker 2: it bears repeating that they're incredibly accurate relative to.
Speaker 1: Their length and incredibly skilled in other facets of the game.
Speaker 2: They have complete games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Brooks is one of the best players around
Speaker 1: the greens and one of the best players on the
Speaker 1: greens to go along with his immense power, and he's
Speaker 1: a top ten strokes gained approach guy.
Speaker 2: So yeah, And I think there's a tendency when you
Speaker 2: come to a course like Pebble that's a little bit
Speaker 2: shorter and where precision players have a real chance. I
Speaker 2: think there's a tendency to forget about the fact that
Speaker 2: those four or five players that we just mentioned are
Speaker 2: still the best players in the world. DJ and are
Speaker 2: still favorite.
Speaker 1: Hears so little about DJ and he was like a
Speaker 1: final round collapse away from running away from with.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And the weather turned that day on Sunday
Speaker 2: in twenty ten, and DJ was was three up going
Speaker 2: into the final round. This is a different Dustin Johnson
Speaker 2: coming into this tournament, and he he has a really
Speaker 2: really good chance. So you know, before getting into some
Speaker 2: of the some of the the sexy picks, obviously, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that one of those guys is probably gonna
Speaker 2: win the golf tournament. But uh, you know, some interesting
Speaker 2: players to look at, players who might do well at
Speaker 2: this course would be Web Simpson, Matt Kucher. Is chess
Speaker 2: Revy in the field, yeah, yeah, reve yeah, oh of
Speaker 2: course he is. But he could do well, right, He's.
Speaker 1: Played well in the last two opens. I was talking
Speaker 1: with Polly on the Shotguns start last night and I
Speaker 1: kept bringing up chez Revy and he he wasn't buying it,
Speaker 1: but I chess Rev he plays well at the AT
Speaker 1: and T. But he said, one thing is overrating at
Speaker 1: and T peronerformance because there's only half the rounds are
Speaker 1: at Pebble. But at the same time, like, chess Revy
Speaker 1: to me, fits this golf course. But he's not really
Speaker 1: good around the greens, but he's so good tea too green.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and he seems to do well in majors, right.
Speaker 2: He always seems to pop up on the leaderboard and
Speaker 2: everybody acts surprise, but he's been there a few times.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, so the twenty nineteen pro Am
Speaker 2: so the pro Aram earlier this year. As as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: there are just two rounds at Pebble Beach, but the
Speaker 2: golf course was set up as narrow at the pro
Speaker 2: Am as it will be in the open, and so
Speaker 2: looking at the players who did well isn't necessarily going
Speaker 2: to determine who you think is going to win, but
Speaker 2: it's still kind of interesting. So the players who played
Speaker 2: best at the twenty nineteen pro Am were at Pebble
Speaker 2: Beach were Seawou Kim, who shot ten under over his
Speaker 2: two rounds at Pebble Beach, Phil Mickelson obviously, who won
Speaker 2: the golf the big Woo Woo could do well. Ball
Speaker 2: striker Phil Mickelson at minus nine he obviously won the
Speaker 2: tournament shot sixty five on Sunday. And then some interesting
Speaker 2: names come up. Kevin Streelman, your favorite.
Speaker 1: Kevin Streelman has to beat He's not in the field
Speaker 1: this week, but he has an unbelievable record at at
Speaker 1: and t he does well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it's just like players of this type
Speaker 2: keep popping up doing well at a Pebble Beach. Scott
Speaker 2: Scott Stallings did well, Lucas Glover, Michael Thompson, Jim Feerick
Speaker 2: and then Cameron Champ and so it's a.
Speaker 1: Mixture, unbelievable Cameron Champ in there, and that's one of
Speaker 1: the I think that's one of the cool things, is
Speaker 1: like pebble Beach doesn't discriminate against a type of player.
Speaker 2: That's exactly the point, Yeah, for sure. And so somebody
Speaker 2: like Cameron Champ, although he hasn't played well recently, someone
Speaker 2: like that, I don't think he's Yeah. Yeah, in any case,
Speaker 2: players like that could do well. But also Jim Feurick
Speaker 2: could could do well. So you know, the door is
Speaker 2: open for a number of different players to win this Open.
Speaker 2: I think that it will be a really interesting tournament
Speaker 2: as a result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think there's there's why range of players.
Speaker 1: I like him really compelled to pick Web Simpson, but
Speaker 1: I whimped out last minute and picked DJ.
Speaker 2: Well, that's not a bad choice though.
Speaker 1: Polly said something. He's like, you know, keep in mind
Speaker 1: US Opens, you know usually don't yield fluke winners, Like
Speaker 1: usually the winner of a US Open is a very
Speaker 1: high profile player, and that's what made me flip it
Speaker 1: at the last minute. Even though Web Simpson's one web
Speaker 1: Us might be the least fluky player of all fluky players.
Speaker 2: He won at Olympic Club, which has some of the
Speaker 2: features that we've been talking about. It's built on the
Speaker 2: side of a hill, it's got fairly small targets. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying web Simpson is going to win. It's just
Speaker 2: that this is a really good chance for him. It's
Speaker 2: also a really good chance for Matt Coucher, and that
Speaker 2: would be fascinating to see him win, and people's reactions
Speaker 2: to that at this point in that Couture's career.
Speaker 1: Especially like the juxtaposition of people's reactions when he came
Speaker 1: so close at Birkdale, where everybody's like, oh, man, look at.
Speaker 2: The family man. You know where you feel that for him.
Speaker 2: Things have changed for mac Houture's public image since since Birkdale.
Speaker 2: But if he's not thinking right now, this is probably
Speaker 2: my best chance to win a major, maybe for the
Speaker 2: rest of my career. I don't know what he's thinking,
Speaker 2: you know, because it's just it would be.
Speaker 1: It would be perfect, A good juxtaposition of Northern California
Speaker 1: golf courses would be it's going to be this open
Speaker 1: at Pebble and Harding Park, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think Harding Park is going to be
Speaker 2: a little Bethpage.
Speaker 1: I don't think even Bethpage, because Beth Page had like
Speaker 1: the tremendous topography.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be like, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: like TPC, you know, I mean it is a TPC.
Speaker 2: Well, it's TPC Harding Park. Yeah right, I mean that
Speaker 2: Harding Park could be set up in so many different ways, right,
Speaker 2: because it's for daily play, it's it's it's super playable.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure they're gonna do some do some nonsense
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just doesn't have like it. The challenges
Speaker 1: presented are the complete opposite ones where they're actually very
Speaker 1: simple challenges versus the Pebble challenges, which we've you know,
Speaker 1: talked for forty minutes about. So the yeah, so so
Speaker 1: you know Web Web also like you know, when you
Speaker 1: look at his major record heading in you know, he's
Speaker 1: he's finished in the top twenty in the last six majors.
Speaker 1: If you throw in the players, he has a win
Speaker 1: in another top five.
Speaker 2: I mean it's the signs are promising. Yeah for Web
Speaker 2: definitely top five.
Speaker 1: And then I was talking to Roberto Castro yesterday on
Speaker 1: the range and he was saying that Hamilton was like
Speaker 1: almost the best course you could couldn't play a better
Speaker 1: course in prep for the for Pebble than Hamilton. You
Speaker 1: hit a lot of different uh you know, the variety
Speaker 1: of shots you hit off the tee is not like
Speaker 1: there's some x amount of iron holes, x amount of fairway.
Speaker 1: It would be like you hit driver, then he hit iron,
Speaker 1: then he hit fairway. Would you know there was movement
Speaker 1: in the fairways like thick rough, like in pretty narrow.
Speaker 1: It was pretty fascinating to hear him talk about it
Speaker 1: and you the same exact characteristics. And Web almost won
Speaker 1: last week, right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, he would be a really smart pick.
Speaker 2: It's almost starting to seem too smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's the problem him and like pop
Speaker 1: off the page. And with the US Open, like you know,
Speaker 1: you can just have one hole that completely derails everything.
Speaker 1: So that's like the crazy I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the cool things with the US Open is like in
Speaker 1: major golf in general, you see where like that that
Speaker 1: line is so thin where And I think this is
Speaker 1: what maybe some of the issue with Beth Page was
Speaker 1: was there was no there was no opportunity for like,
Speaker 1: you never felt like there was going to be a
Speaker 1: triple there was a triple bogie lurking. And that's something
Speaker 1: that at Pebble can happen in a split second.
Speaker 2: Right, especially if the wind kicks up. Anything could happen,
Speaker 2: you know. I think that you'll see places on the
Speaker 2: course that are a little bit softened. You know, in
Speaker 2: previous US opens, the fourteenth Green has been the site
Speaker 2: of some misery. You know, players just going back and forth,
Speaker 2: back and forth, and it's still really severe. It's still
Speaker 2: really hard that false front if you're you know, I
Speaker 2: landed an approach shot ten feet short of that pin
Speaker 2: and it came back off the and so I got
Speaker 2: the full experience there. But they did extend the back
Speaker 2: of that green. I believe there's more pinnable area. The
Speaker 2: same is true of the seventeenth hole. The seventeenth Green
Speaker 2: in twenty ten was basically impossible to hit, and they
Speaker 2: rebuilt the thirteenth green. There are the places on the
Speaker 2: golf course where you really saw hard ejections, guys just
Speaker 2: going back and forth and making quadruple bogie. I don't
Speaker 2: think you'll see as many of those but at the
Speaker 2: same time, if the wind picks up at all, and
Speaker 2: the forecast does not seem to suggest that it really will,
Speaker 2: But if there's any weather whatsoever, things can turn in
Speaker 2: an instant and it will get really interesting. And I
Speaker 2: hope it does because it will highlight some of the
Speaker 2: precision play. Is the person who has the golfer, who
Speaker 2: has the best control over his golf ball, if the
Speaker 2: wind picks up, will immediately become apparent.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that's tough is that we're
Speaker 1: seeing the same wind almost every day. Like it looks
Speaker 1: like it's just going to be a west or west southwest.
Speaker 2: Ten to fifteen miles per hour. It'll be I think
Speaker 2: it'll be fairly predictable conditions, but it'll be beautiful, you know.
Speaker 1: I think the television will be a television product will pop,
Speaker 1: It'll look awesome. Yeah, So all right, this will be
Speaker 1: the first of many pods, so I hope so yeah,
Speaker 1: it we'll chop it up some more. But it was
Speaker 1: good talking. Everybody followed Garrett. It's still g Ford right,
Speaker 1: g Ford Golf, g Ford Golf at g Ford Golf
Speaker 1: on Twitter and on Instagram, same thing, and uh, excited
Speaker 1: to have him on. He'll have some a lot of
Speaker 1: written content on the website. Go up there with the
Speaker 1: Frida egg dot com and sign up if you haven't.
Speaker 1: But we'll have a good championship. We'll have a few
Speaker 1: more pods this week and look forward to Pebble Beach.
Speaker 1: Hope this one. Hope this adds some color to people
Speaker 1: that haven't been out here.
Speaker 2: Absolutely thanks Andy,