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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 1: name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined

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Speaker 1: with our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Longtime listeners, you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: note that recently we have been exploring some things that

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Speaker 1: are more of the modern world. Corporate cover ups, ongoing

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Speaker 1: investigations into hidden burial places, and things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: many of which do point to genuine conspiracies, not conspiracy eeries,

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Speaker 1: but genuine conspiracies. Today we are delving into something a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. We're delving into a realm of spirituality,

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Speaker 1: a realm of allegedly magic, and the area wherein science,

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Speaker 1: magic and linguistics are said to converge. Let's start with

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Speaker 1: angels today. Angels, at least in the Western world, have

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Speaker 1: a pretty solidified image. You know, most most people in

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Speaker 1: the West if you ask them just immediately to describe

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Speaker 1: what an angel looks like, unless they've done some further reading.

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Speaker 1: They're going to picture a humanoid being, probably in a

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Speaker 1: flowing robe or maybe nude, but androgynous and shining brightly.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of white involved, pair of large feathered wings,

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Speaker 1: maybe multiple pairs, sprouting from the back. And sometimes the

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Speaker 1: angel will also have a a halo or a herp,

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Speaker 1: a halo being a circle of light, sometimes depicted as

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Speaker 1: a band of some shiny golden metal above their head.

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Speaker 1: This of course, does not match one to one with

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Speaker 1: many biblical descriptions of angels, which this this is something

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Speaker 1: you'll appreciate, Matt. From the X Files, there is a

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Speaker 1: fantastic depiction of an angel in an episode on the

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Speaker 1: nephel Um. Do you remember that one with the Sickly children. Yeah? Man,

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Speaker 1: it's a little hazy for me, but that sounds familiar.

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Speaker 1: Are they were the sickly children the Nephelum? They were

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Speaker 1: like children or they were actually Nephelum they spoiler alert, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were actually Nephelum and they had these mysterious genetic disorders.

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Speaker 1: But they were being murdered one by one by a

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Speaker 1: divine agent, which was an angel, and towards the very

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Speaker 1: end spoiler alert. Here's your chance to turn back. Now.

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Speaker 1: Three to one spoilers the towards the end of the episode,

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Speaker 1: where you actually see this creature attacking someone, It's faces

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Speaker 1: shift because in some biblical descriptions of angels they have

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Speaker 1: multiple faces. And of course there are many, many different

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Speaker 1: types of angels, depending on which civilization or culture you

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Speaker 1: are investigating. Man, I was certain you were going to

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Speaker 1: say it was the chupacabra all along. There is a

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Speaker 1: chupacabra episode of X Files, and I believe in that

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Speaker 1: episode three to one spoilers is a It is a

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Speaker 1: fungal agent, an infection creates chabra. I believe someone that

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Speaker 1: that may be a different show, but there's so many

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Speaker 1: X Files episodes I have to say. Nephelim sounds like

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Speaker 1: a great name for a metal band doesn't exist, and

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Speaker 1: the Sickly Children great name for an album by sad

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Speaker 1: metal band. Neilham is a band. Yeah, yes, of course

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Speaker 1: I believe that episode of Exiles we're referencing was called

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Speaker 1: All Souls, and yes I do remember that episode. And

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Speaker 1: they're not as good as the writers of X Files

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Speaker 1: are at this time. They are not making this up

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Speaker 1: out of whole cloth, as the item goes. Instead, they

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Speaker 1: are cribbing from beliefs of ancient civilizations far older, by

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Speaker 1: the way, than the religions of the book, far older

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Speaker 1: than Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. In fact, most ancient civilizations

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Speaker 1: in the world believed in this concept of angels or

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Speaker 1: something very much like them, benevolent spirits representing a more

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Speaker 1: powerful deity. So they were almost like minor deities. They

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Speaker 1: could do little miracles. They were not as powerful as God,

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Speaker 1: or not as powerful as whatever the supreme uh you know,

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Speaker 1: final boss deity was in a belief system, but they

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Speaker 1: had a heck of a lot more agency in power

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Speaker 1: than mortals. Well, maybe agency is a tough word. There's

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Speaker 1: huge argument about angels and free will that dates back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning of a lot of myths. So it's

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Speaker 1: important to note here that not all angels are necessarily good.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna bust an angel stereotype today. We'll get to

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Speaker 1: that later on in today's episode. And here's this is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: So while the belief in angels or something like these

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Speaker 1: benevolent intercessing spirits, maybe ancient, it persists in the modern

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Speaker 1: day and the statistics may surprise some of us listening.

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Speaker 1: According to a two thousand eleven poll that was published

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Speaker 1: by CBS, seventy seven percent of adults in the United

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Speaker 1: States believe angels are real. This is usually, of course,

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Speaker 1: tied to religion. Eight percent of people identifying as Christian

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Speaker 1: and people identifying as Evangelical Christians, along with nine of

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Speaker 1: people who attend weekly religious services of some sort, say

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Speaker 1: yes they believe in angels. And a pause here, because

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a tricky question. That statistic is worth challenge, Gene,

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Speaker 1: because it all depends upon how the question is asked,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like if you simply say, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you if you're catching people right outside of a

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Speaker 1: church service as they're on their way out, and they say,

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Speaker 1: do you believe in angels, it's safe to say just

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Speaker 1: based on how human psychology works, they're very much they're

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Speaker 1: much more likely to say yes. There's all there's social

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Speaker 1: pressure in that environment. If you did it that way,

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Speaker 1: that's true, I agree and say yes, yes, of course

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Speaker 1: I do. And there so often seems to be such

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Speaker 1: an all or nothing approach to that flavor of religion. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: flavor is a weird choice of words, but you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean like it. It certainly feels like people

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Speaker 1: would be encouraged to not just take the bits they like,

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Speaker 1: but you have to believe in all of the lore

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Speaker 1: and every part of what's in the Bible as being

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Speaker 1: the truth, or at least say you do, because let's

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Speaker 1: not forget there's a lot of cherry picking um from

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Speaker 1: various religions, I mean, tail as old as time. But

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite examples is, uh, this author who

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called Living Biblically. Have you guys heard

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Speaker 1: of this book? I have not? Oh wait, is this

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Speaker 1: the one where he lives according to the teachings of

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Speaker 1: the Bible for a period of time? And like, where's

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Speaker 1: his beard long? And all of that stuff? What's the

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Speaker 1: guy's name? H? A J. J. J. J. Jacobs. He

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Speaker 1: was on Part Time Genius talking about this The Year

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Speaker 1: of Living Biblically, one man's humble quest to follow the

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Speaker 1: Bible as literally as possible. He runs into a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff that was treated with great import you know,

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Speaker 1: but is generally not followed in today's modern age by

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Speaker 1: most people who would consider themselves practitioners of the of

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Speaker 1: Christianity or practitioners of a faith of the Book of

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Speaker 1: the Abramaic variety he he ran into one are the

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Speaker 1: ones that was the most surprising to me was when

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Speaker 1: he ran into the band against wearing two different types

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Speaker 1: of fabric. That was a big deal. You were not

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Speaker 1: supposed us to do that. And so often, even people

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Speaker 1: who feel that they are following the letter and the

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Speaker 1: spirit of the law as determined by these religious works,

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Speaker 1: they'll skip some stuff, you know what I mean, They'll

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Speaker 1: have some some polyester, I'll have some nylon or whatever

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Speaker 1: the band fabrics are. But you gotta do what you

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Speaker 1: gotta do what you gotta do. But it may well

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Speaker 1: surprise a lot of people to find that, at least

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Speaker 1: according to this study, the belief in angels is so

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Speaker 1: prevalent even in this increasingly secular world. So we have

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Speaker 1: to ask ourselves what is it about angels that so

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Speaker 1: captures human imagination even now in nine And to answer

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Speaker 1: that question, we have to continue Maybe busting myths is

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Speaker 1: is not a good choice words here, but we we

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Speaker 1: have to continue clarifying what angels were historically and how

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Speaker 1: they became um so closely as asociated with that cultural

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Speaker 1: icon of the flowing robes and the harp and the halo,

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Speaker 1: which again, just it reminds me of how Coca Cola

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Speaker 1: managed to codify the appearance of Santa Claus. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true. It's true story. But but here's the fact. So,

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Speaker 1: first off, where does the name angel come from. Well,

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Speaker 1: the word itself is derived from the Greek word angelos,

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Speaker 1: which means messenger Molak, the Hebrew word for angel, also

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Speaker 1: means messenger. In both words quite neatly fit in with

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Speaker 1: the Persian word for angel, which is a garos, similarly

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Speaker 1: meaning a courier. Mm hmmm. So this so we know

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Speaker 1: now that all of the earlier uses of this concept

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Speaker 1: meant someone who brings a message, right, Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: servant or child or you know, any of these other

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Speaker 1: things that you kind of sometimes are scribed to angels,

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Speaker 1: like the children of God in some way in the

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Speaker 1: offspring of God, the servants of God. Now, these are

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Speaker 1: messengers of God. And the various similarities between these preceding

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Speaker 1: words and phrases has led some researchers to speculate that

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Speaker 1: the earliest form of what we would call angel comes

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Speaker 1: from a Sentian linear b script a kai row and

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Speaker 1: this leads us to one of the most important crucial

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Speaker 1: things we have to establish here. If we haven't, if

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Speaker 1: we haven't clearly said it already, the belief in angels

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Speaker 1: or beings like them is in no way restricted to

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Speaker 1: the Abramaic religions. We just tend to hear about this viewpoint,

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Speaker 1: at least the four of us. Matt Noel palm myself,

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Speaker 1: because we live in the United States. We are in

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Speaker 1: and of the Western world, which means that most people

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Speaker 1: are going to share even if even if they do

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Speaker 1: not ascribe to a specific um Abramaic religion, they're going

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Speaker 1: to share that cultural view of what an angel is.

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Speaker 1: You know. But this um this is not a purely Christian,

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Speaker 1: Judaic or Muslim thing. The ancient religion of Zoroastrianism has

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Speaker 1: beings very very similar to angels, and Zoroastrianism is its

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Speaker 1: own fascinating religion that we could do a do a

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Speaker 1: different episode on. We really should, because I want to

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Speaker 1: dive deeper into that. It's the source of the name

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Speaker 1: Mazda and cars. Actually, that's wonderful. It's it's fascinating for sure.

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Speaker 1: In Abrameric religions, angels are often depicted as these benevolent

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Speaker 1: celestial beings and their intermediaries between we mud walkers and God.

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Speaker 1: And this makes sense right because they said earlier know them.

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Speaker 1: They're primarily depicted as messengers, but they have other roles

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Speaker 1: to they do other stuff. Oh yeah, sometimes they will

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Speaker 1: pop down to protect someone, maybe impregnate someone. I mean, uh,

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Speaker 1: that was God, right, that wasn't an angel or a dude.

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Speaker 1: They also will smite people. Oh yeah, definitely. The archangels

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Speaker 1: will come down and and take you out if you're

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Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing. But see, it's so it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting with some of the tales and philosophies behind intervention

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Speaker 1: between heaven and Earth and all of these things. Ah,

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Speaker 1: I love these topics so much. But yeah, so they'll

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Speaker 1: protect you, they'll smite you, they might impregnate you. Um,

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Speaker 1: but they're what that's about it. They'll do little tasks.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes task is signed by God, so that could be

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Speaker 1: anything from conveying a message to perhaps delivering someone from peril. Right,

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Speaker 1: they pray to God and God sends someone. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because in some of the earlier appearances in the Old Testament,

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Speaker 1: for instance, God is is a hands on manager. God

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Speaker 1: shows up and specifically talks to people God will, God

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Speaker 1: will directly intervene, and as the story continues, God seems

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Speaker 1: to be increasingly communicating through intermediaries and the Christian faith.

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Speaker 1: It's through Jesus Christ for instance, right, and the yeah,

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Speaker 1: the priest if it's Catholic, Yeah, yes, spot on. And

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Speaker 1: so what we see is that the concept of what

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Speaker 1: an angel is and what an angel does evolved along

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Speaker 1: with the commonly agreed upon understanding of the nature of God.

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Speaker 1: And within these abramaic religions, angels are organized into hierarchies.

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Speaker 1: This happens another religions too, but the specifics of the

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Speaker 1: hierarchy may differ across various belief systems. And that leads

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Speaker 1: us to angels today. Right, So fast forward thousands of

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Speaker 1: years of history. We did a very quick and dirt

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Speaker 1: the summary of it. Yeah, the angels got in the outfield.

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Speaker 1: The angels, uh when in the airwaves? We said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was you know, Tom Delongs angels. You know, the

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Speaker 1: angels definitely did other things. They show up in the

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Speaker 1: Twilight Zone. There's a lovely inept guardian angel attempting to

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Speaker 1: earn its wings. That's a really sweet episode. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the not depressing Twilight Zones, and that's one of

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Speaker 1: the I think that's one of the only recurrent characters

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Speaker 1: in the Twilight Zone universe other than you know, my

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Speaker 1: boy Rod Serling. You know what I think of when

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Speaker 1: I think of angels, which as far as the depiction

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Speaker 1: is the depiction of angels in Dogma by Kevin Smith,

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Speaker 1: where they had no genitals. Yeah, angels have been depicted

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Speaker 1: as androgynous beans at time, which is strange because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really jibe with some of the ancient angel stories,

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Speaker 1: which will we'll get to right And for the true believers,

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Speaker 1: angels in the modern day largely function as they did

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Speaker 1: in the past, more directly. They're bringing messages from a

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Speaker 1: deity and accomplishing earthly task for that power, perhaps specifically

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Speaker 1: focusing on one person. The belief in a guardian angel

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Speaker 1: that looks after you as an individual and your individual

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Speaker 1: soul is still very much in play in the world today.

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Speaker 1: And this leads us to another question, which is a

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Speaker 1: question we do not mean in an offensive way at all.

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Speaker 1: Your personal beliefs are your own. It's a question that

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Speaker 1: the world has still grappled with, which is this, Where

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Speaker 1: is the proof we we have, we have compelling evidence

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Speaker 1: that more than half, well more than half of uh

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Speaker 1: people in the United States claim to believe in some

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Speaker 1: sort of thing like this. But at this point, there

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Speaker 1: has been no confirmed discovery of any physical leaving that

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Speaker 1: would inarguably indicate the presence of something matching the various

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Speaker 1: descriptions of an angel. There have been many alleged relics

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Speaker 1: right there, not only depictions and art, but also feathers

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Speaker 1: or ectoplasm that purportedly manifested during a divine sighting, interaction

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Speaker 1: and situation. For lack of a better phrase, and the

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Speaker 1: overwhelming mass of what people interpret as proof of angels

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Speaker 1: up to this point has unfortunately been based on anecdotes,

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Speaker 1: personal belief and faith. Again, this is not to deride

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Speaker 1: anybody who believes in these entities, nor is it meant

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Speaker 1: to dismiss your personal views. It's it's best to call

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Speaker 1: it unfortunate simply because without physical, verifiable evidence, most people

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Speaker 1: who do not believe in these sorts of creatures will

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Speaker 1: never see a reason to change their minds. Otherwise they'll say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you have a story right where let's say you had

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Speaker 1: a near death experience and you spoke with something that

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Speaker 1: you perceived be an angel that told you you still

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Speaker 1: had work to do, and then you woke up in

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Speaker 1: the hospital right miraculously recovering. You have been dead for

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Speaker 1: anywhere from two to thirteen minutes or something like that,

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Speaker 1: your heart wasn't beating. That's that's a very common story.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if

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Speaker 1: some of us listening today have not had a near

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Speaker 1: death experience or know someone who has. However, that story

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Speaker 1: is not going to convince someone who says, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe they say I'm an atheist, or maybe they say

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Speaker 1: I'm a spiritual person, but I don't believe in this

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I think it's tradition. I think it's

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Speaker 1: more folklore than fact, unless there were some sort of

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Speaker 1: physical evidence, because you see, there may be one more

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Speaker 1: piece of proof, something that true believers feel is all

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Speaker 1: too often ignored. What if, in a way, the things

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Speaker 1: people call angels have left a trace on the waking world.

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Speaker 1: And what if it wasn't um, you know, bones hollowed

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Speaker 1: out somewhere between bird bones and human bones. What if

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a massive feathers uh secreted away in some

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Speaker 1: reliquary right. What if it wasn't ectoplasm in a hundreds

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Speaker 1: year old vial. What if it was something a little

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Speaker 1: more sophisticated, like a language. Okay, I'm in and let's

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Speaker 1: learn about it. Back, let's learn about it after a

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Speaker 1: quick break from from this, because we're gonna hear from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back. It appears that we have

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Speaker 1: not been smited yet. So here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: Language a language of angels. The concept of angelic script

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty bizarre at first blush right, But for centuries

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Speaker 1: people have treated this concept with solemnity and seriousness. It

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Speaker 1: is called Enochian script after the Biblical character Enoch. And

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Speaker 1: it all originates, I mean, at least on this earthly

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Speaker 1: playing with a guy named John d d e E.

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Speaker 1: He'll be familiar to some of us and others might

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Speaker 1: just be a vague name. So who is this guy?

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Speaker 1: And he was real familiar to some from our alchemy episode. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's correct, So Mr John d uh he is welcomed

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Speaker 1: into this world. Way back in fifteen seven in London.

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Speaker 1: He was an English mathematician and a natural philosopher, which

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Speaker 1: at the time is I guess as close as you

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Speaker 1: could get to being a scientist or what would become scientists,

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Speaker 1: um and the predacensor. Really, he was also a student

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Speaker 1: of the occult, as we mentioned, as you might imagine

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Speaker 1: knowing that he's involved in alchemy at some point in

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Speaker 1: his life. But this dude was, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to put it. He was crazy educated, oh man, and

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Speaker 1: at a time when very few people went to school

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Speaker 1: and a literacy was rampant, because you know, honestly, many

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Speaker 1: people would live their lives from cradle to grave without

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Speaker 1: really needing to know how to read. He entered St

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Speaker 1: John's College, Cambridge in fifteen forty two. I got a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's degree there and then a master's degree. He became

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Speaker 1: a fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge when it was founded

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Speaker 1: in fifteen forty six. This guy's old school and influential.

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Speaker 1: Then he traveled to Europe, or as they would say

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Speaker 1: in British parlance, to the continent, and in fifteen forty

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Speaker 1: sevent he made a short visit. Then he stayed from

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Speaker 1: forty eight to fifteen fifty one studying under mathematician cartographers,

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Speaker 1: people like Pedro Nounez Gama, Frisius Abraham or Tellius and

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Speaker 1: Mercatur of the Mercader projection, and he also did self

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Speaker 1: directed study in Paris a few other places that have

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Speaker 1: been lost to history. He started turning down opportunities. The

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Speaker 1: University of Paris offered him a professorship in mathematics and

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Speaker 1: fifteen fifty one, and then University of Oxford offered him

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Speaker 1: essentially the same thing in fifteen fifty four, but he said, no, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be an academic locked in some

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Speaker 1: ivory tower. I have higher aims. I have political aims. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wanna be a part of not royalty necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: I want to be a part of the people that

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Speaker 1: actually make the decisions. I'm gonna parlay this big noggat

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Speaker 1: of mine some power. I could see him as both

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Speaker 1: a protagonist and an antagonist in some movie where he's

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Speaker 1: the extremely intelligent guy on the side, like the Jaffar

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Speaker 1: figure or a resputant type figure. But yeah, but he

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Speaker 1: seems to be like at least well intentioned to our

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Speaker 1: to our knowledge, and he was a huge icon fairly

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Speaker 1: early on in the pop culture at the time. The

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Speaker 1: character of Prospero and the Tempest is based on him.

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Speaker 1: It's like quote unquote widely thought to be the case.

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Speaker 1: It's true. It's based on him one guy's opinion. That's

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Speaker 1: just my opinion. But the evidence is there. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he decides that he's going to join the court.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna work in service of the English crown. This

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Speaker 1: plan is successful. He returns to England and he becomes

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Speaker 1: a member of the court because he offers to teach

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Speaker 1: mathematics to courtiers and to navigators, and eventually he becomes

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Speaker 1: a consultant and astrologer to Queen Mary one. And this

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Speaker 1: is at this level of political power. This is similar

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Speaker 1: to being both on the cabinet of the president and

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Speaker 1: the astrologer, kind of like how Ronald Reagan had an astrologer.

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Speaker 1: That's true, you can look it up. It's true. This

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Speaker 1: this is a dream job, right, this is what he wanted.

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Speaker 1: It landed him in jail in fifteen fifty five. He

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Speaker 1: was charged with being a conjurer. As it happens, it

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Speaker 1: let him out a little later, but but it is

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Speaker 1: on the books. So this is the first time he

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Speaker 1: gets a criminal record. I wonder what he conjured to

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Speaker 1: get that sentence, or was accused of conjuring. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that anywhere. Maybe it's just a tiny

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Speaker 1: little imp that he was gonna have assist him in

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Speaker 1: his work. What what conjuring a small homunculusus and you

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Speaker 1: know whatever, Maybe it was just a small black cat.

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Speaker 1: Is a homunculus like inherently have a hunch? Doesn't it

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Speaker 1: doesn't homunculus have a hunch, doesn't have to, It doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to have What is it? What is it? What

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Speaker 1: is a homunculus? That it is a It is almost

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Speaker 1: like a familiar depenion on the stories, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: created life, made by an alchemist, usually with some combination

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Speaker 1: of a bodily fluid like blood seamen, or you're in

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Speaker 1: certain types of canations, certain types of mud and herbs.

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Speaker 1: So it could it be a mud person or like

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Speaker 1: a rock creature of some kind of given life. It's

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Speaker 1: closer to a golem. Ah, you guys, I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to me. And I've always heard that term. I've always

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Speaker 1: associated it with like an igor or like some sort

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Speaker 1: of grotesque, you know, disfigured um sidekick. They are usually

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Speaker 1: they are usually supposed to be um. I don't know

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Speaker 1: when they're depicted. They're they're typically going to be depicted

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Speaker 1: as deformed in some way or imperfect, because only in

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Speaker 1: this environment, only God can create a truly perfect being. Right,

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Speaker 1: so I have a I have a recipe to build

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Speaker 1: a homoculous attributed to Paracelsis from his book day naturnoum

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Speaker 1: in seven. If you want to hear it, can we can?

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Speaker 1: We try it right now? Um, probably don't have the materials. Well,

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Speaker 1: we do, but it's not safe for work. That's fair,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Let's give it up. Let's just hear it.

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Speaker 1: That the sperm of a man be putrified by itself

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Speaker 1: in a sealed cucurbit for forty days, and the highest

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Speaker 1: degree of putrification in a horse's womb, or at least

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Speaker 1: so long that it comes to life and moves itself

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Speaker 1: and stirs, which is easily observed. After this time it

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Speaker 1: will look somewhat like a man, but transparent without a body.

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Speaker 1: If after this it be fed wisely with the arcanem

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Speaker 1: of human blood and be nurished for up to forty

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Speaker 1: weeks and be kept in the even heat of the

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Speaker 1: horse's womb, a living child grows therefrom with all its

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Speaker 1: members like another child which is born of a woman,

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Speaker 1: but much smaller. I have questions, does this involve having

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Speaker 1: sex with a horse. No, but it says the sperm

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Speaker 1: has to putrefy in the horse's womb. That's right, But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't say anything about the horse being alive. So

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Speaker 1: does this have Does this involve having sex with a

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Speaker 1: dead horse? I don't think it has to it. That's

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Speaker 1: really you know, this is the wild West of alchemy

401
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: at this point. Man. Uh, that's really If that's how

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Speaker 1: you want to attempt you are homoculous, then just don't

403
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Speaker 1: tell me about it. I also heard I also heard

404
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Speaker 1: an alternative. The horse was just an option, right that

405
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Speaker 1: you said you could also do it in age it.

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Speaker 1: When I want to hear putrefy, I'm hearing like ferment, right?

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Speaker 1: Is that was that? That was how you would maybe

408
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: interpret that word aging the sperm. You could do it

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Speaker 1: in some kind of stone vessel. I feel like for

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Speaker 1: for this guy, and did the toum the the the

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00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: horse's womb is tantamount? Yeah? Well, there was a YouTube

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Speaker 1: series of homuncular where this one dude was attempting to

413
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Speaker 1: make homunculous or homuncular, and I'm pretty sure it must

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Speaker 1: have been fake because of the nasty puppetry that I

415
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: believe he was doing was just disgusting to look at,

416
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Speaker 1: and the processes that he was describing and all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: It was back in the day and I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: it just now trying to look it up. But does

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Speaker 1: anyone else recall seeing that in searching on YouTube, perhaps

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Speaker 1: of a guy trying to make AMUNCULI I've seen some

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Speaker 1: stuff like it, and it was I was inclined to

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Speaker 1: believe it was a bit or performance art, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Sometimes it could be tough to

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Speaker 1: tell when people are being sincere on the internet and

425
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: when they're having a go, when they're having a laugh.

426
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: It was Oh no, I found it. It It was a

427
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: Russian YouTuber. I can't find the original one. It's a

428
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: bunch of re uploads the Russian gentleman. Well sir, if

429
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: you are listening, we hope you were doing well and

430
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: we look forward to hearing how your experiments have worked out.

431
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: And just a little plug, our buddies Joe and Robert

432
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: over stuff to blow your mind, have a whole episode

433
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: on how to make a homunculus and other horrors. Oh, oh, horrors.

434
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a that's a little bit editorializing. Yeah,

435
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: but so aby, how are the John Yes, So he

436
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: also had this interest in the occult. Clearly he's an astrologer.

437
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: This is the time when natural philosophy represents both a

438
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: mixture of what we would recognize the science today and

439
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: what we would recognize as magic or the belief and such.

440
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: He published something called the monas Hieroglyphica, the Hieroglyphic Monad

441
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: in fifteen sixty four, and he made it through a

442
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: secession of power. When Elizabeth the First descended to the

443
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: throne in fifteen fifty eight, he became one of her

444
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: scientific and medical advisors. And then he was bawling so

445
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: hard that sometime during the mid fifteen sixties he built

446
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: his own laboratory in Mortlake, which was an area near London.

447
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: He amassed the largest private library in the country, had

448
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: over four thousand books in manuscripts. This is in the

449
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: fifteen sixties. You know how long it took to make

450
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: a book in the fifteen hundreds, and just to get

451
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: that many books from all across the world probably, And

452
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: he continued like, let's look at his scientific pursuit. So

453
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: he worked extensively with cartographers, navigators, people that he considered

454
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: intellectual peers, or even people that he thought were just

455
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: asking interesting questions. Because he was a one man library,

456
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: he would loan out these books, he would have people

457
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: over to read his books and his works. He published

458
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: widely across various disciplines. Uh, stuff like the Banger Hit

459
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: General and rare Memorials pertaining to the Perfect Art of

460
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Navigation in fifteen seventy seven. Uh. And then he published

461
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: stuff like an Aphoristic Introduction his views on natural philosophy

462
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: and Astrology in fifteen fifty eight. And this is pretty cool.

463
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: He actually edited the first version of Euclid's Elements into English,

464
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: which is was extremely helpful. Thank you for doing that

465
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: to all people that came after you, John. That was

466
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: in fifteen seventy And he also had this this I mean,

467
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: we kind of talked about it already, but he was

468
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: so into the occult. And I think it's because it's

469
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: that thing that we discussed on this show all the time,

470
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: that line right between magic and science, and he's already

471
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: kind of writing that line a little bit throughout his

472
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: his spiritual pursuits as well as a scientific pursuits, and

473
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: he just thought the occult was the coolest thing, and

474
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: it grew and grew and grew his interest in this

475
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: and um that thing that we talked about, the hiero

476
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: glyphic monad that we um just mentioned up top, because

477
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: in that he proposed this single mathematical symbol, magical symbol

478
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: that was the key to unlocking basically everything. It was

479
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: like the one the one solution to the unity of

480
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: all things in nature. Yeah, the as above so below. Yeah,

481
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: it's it's true. And it's strange because his interest in

482
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: the occult seems to grow step with his frustration at

483
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: scientific pursuit. He felt that there was a veil between

484
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: him and in the true nature of reality. And it's

485
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: so interesting to me how in these days that whole

486
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: pursuit of scientific um knowledge was very much intertwined in general,

487
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: more more, much more so than today when the world

488
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: seems so separate. Man of science, man of God and

489
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: all that, and a lot of the things that he

490
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: that you know, we look at as being um, mystical

491
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: sort of or a little bit more occult kind of

492
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: got broken off. The whole idea of the monad and

493
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: all that into philosophy. So that's it's almost like create

494
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: birth the whole another pursuit kind of if you think,

495
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah, in the same

496
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: way that alchemy lead to chemistry. Right, this is so far.

497
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: Let's call him the Daytime John d. Right, he's good,

498
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: he's brilliant. He's got a centric interest in the occult.

499
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: But how far did it go? What does he have

500
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: to do with angels? Let's get to them after a

501
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. So here we have John D's

502
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: in the halls of power. He is considered a world

503
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: class authority on all manner of scientific pursuits and disciplines

504
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: and exercises and philosophy. He's also an unhappy dude. He's

505
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: getting increasingly frustrated because he wants to build a comprehensive

506
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: understanding of the natural world. And so, in let's say,

507
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: maybe desperation or just in the next step of his

508
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: continuing quest, he began seeking supernatural or divine assistance. He

509
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: attempted to speak with angels in the hundreds. By the way,

510
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: you ran a a severely high risk of death or

511
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: dismemberment by saying that you didn't believe in angels, So

512
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't count yourself lucky today right in Fife specifically,

513
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: he began performing a long series of magical research projects.

514
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: Earlier that year, when he was around fifty four, he

515
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: had written in his journal that God had sent quote

516
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: good angels to communicate directly with human beings, and so

517
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: he had set himself up to make contact with these angels.

518
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: But he had a problem. You see, he was not

519
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: a medium. He had attempted to scry and found that

520
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: he had no ability to see the other side or

521
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: interact with it. Scrying is the act of a meditative

522
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: divinatory act, wherein you might stare into a crystal ball,

523
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: for instance, or in some cultures an obsidian mirror or

524
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: a container of water. I always thought is when you

525
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: look at top card of your library and you decided

526
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: to put it either on the back, on the top

527
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: or on the bottom of your library. But that's what

528
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: That's a cool move in magic? Are you still playing magic?

529
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: What I'm talking about? Scrying? Bro real magic? All right? Okay,

530
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: that's right. Matt does scry with a deck of cards.

531
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: He let me look at this. What is that? Terror? Okay? Oh?

532
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: I thought you can say seven of clubs. But that

533
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: is not your card. So those are the kind of

534
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: results that John D was having. He just he couldn't

535
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,959
Speaker 1: he couldn't divine this stuff, and he was honest enough

536
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: with himself is very important. He was honest stuff with

537
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: himself to say, well, I'm not doing it. I'm not

538
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: going to delude myself. I am certain that this talent exists,

539
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: but I am likewise certain that either I had do

540
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: not have it, or I don't have a strong enough

541
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: capacity to learn it. So eventually he did find a medium,

542
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: or at least he thought he did. He had old

543
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: numerous seances in England and other European countries across the continent,

544
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: in the company of his hired medium fellow named Edward Kelly,

545
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: who will get to in a moment, but it's very

546
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: important in this story. In his attempt to contact angels,

547
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: D was seeking that universal language of creation. He thought

548
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: it would bring about a pre apocalyptic unity of human kind.

549
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: He thought that everyone, despite their differences, knowing this language

550
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: would discover some sort of um tangible and supernatural and

551
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: philosophical truth about the nature of the universe and Earth

552
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: and humanity's place in it, and that this would promote peace,

553
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: this would stop pointless wars. Someone like a somewhat utopian, right.

554
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: I can totally see where he could get that belief.

555
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: It sounds very similar to some of the stuff we've

556
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: been discussing earlier with the whole Watchman AUSI mandious thing

557
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: like if we all had that one connection for sure,

558
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: for certain that makes the world bigger than us, then

559
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: maybe we would all get along. Yeah, we have a

560
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: we have a lot of them. One stop shoppery in

561
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: in in the story of Human Aims. Right. The guy

562
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: who who created Esperanto also thought that it would help

563
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: end the war because everyone would speak the same language. Yeah,

564
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: Esperanto is a great language, by the way, very few

565
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: people speak it, but it's a great language. I just

566
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: remember like researching it back in the day for the

567
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: old website and learning about William Shatner's wonderful film. Well, well,

568
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: let's so John d He totally thinks that's gonna happen, right,

569
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: and he goes to some pretty extensive lengths to try

570
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: and make it happen, to to try and prove that

571
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: it's true. Yeah, they have He and Edward Kelly have

572
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of sessions from eighty two until fifty seven,

573
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: and and during these sessions they come to believe that

574
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: they are communicating regularly with actual angels, and they each

575
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: have their role to play. They're they're like a two

576
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: man band. So D will be the orator and the supplicants,

577
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: so he will be asking these questions. He will ask

578
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: them often by directing prayers to God and God's arcangicles,

579
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: and then he would invoke them to manifest themselves in

580
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: his scrying stone. For him, it was a black obsidian mirror.

581
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have seen those in person,

582
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: but they look really cool. It kind of gives you

583
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: like a sort of a blurred kind of reflection, right,

584
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: black mirror esque. Yeah, and Kelly would act as the

585
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: ski er. So SOD is invoking these powers and asking

586
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: them things, and Kelly is watching for their reactions. He

587
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: would see visions rejected in this mirror and he would

588
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: describe them to D and then D would write them down.

589
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: So cool, and everything picks up steam around the year

590
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: fifteen eighty two or fifteen eighty three. Yeah, that's when

591
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 1: John d and Edward Kelly claimed to have received communication

592
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: directly from the angels. Who supposedly allegedly provided them with

593
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: the foundations of this language which can be used to

594
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: communicate with the other side. Um. This angelic language had

595
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: its own alphabet, syntax, grammar, all of which they wrote

596
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: down in their journals, and they dubbed this new language Enochian,

597
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: which of course sprang from D's idea that the biblical

598
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: patriarch Enoch, sort of a Methusilah esque figure in the Bible,

599
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: was the last human to know this language, and D

600
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: in common conversation, preferred to call this language angelical or

601
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: the celestial speech. He also called it the first language

602
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: of God Christ and particularly it was fond of calling

603
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: it ademical like Adam Keel, because he claimed it was

604
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: the language spoken by Adam, the biblical Adam and the

605
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: Garden of Eden during the naming of all of God's creatures,

606
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: walk the earth, swim the sea, fly in the air.

607
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: That's that's an interesting concept that Adam somehow spoke the

608
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: same language as all of the angels. Yeah, well way,

609
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: oh is he going to speak Esperanto? Well, you know,

610
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: it's so make It makes so much sense though, if

611
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: you're you're coming from heaven, where all the angels already exist,

612
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: and you're going to bestow life upon this creature in

613
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: this new world, in this new place. Yeah, you teach

614
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: him the like what do you know that? Wow? And

615
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: it's interesting because for d at this time, this is

616
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: not a crazy assumption. This is barely an assumption. He

617
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: had not conceived of a world in which people could

618
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: exist without language, you know what I mean, Like at

619
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: this time, in the fifteen hundreds, there's not going to

620
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: be anyone arguing for the slow evolution of primates right

621
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: from an arboreal species to two legged people walking and

622
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: and working out or accelerating their differences through a series

623
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: of a series of organized noises. What what you're talking about? So,

624
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I say is people were created

625
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: according to the story that he had heard, and that uh,

626
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: people would literally be killed for disagreeing with right at

627
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: this time, so of course there had to be some

628
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: sort of speech. How else would one communicate? Well, it

629
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: could be in the form of dance, like in the

630
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: Netflix show The o A. Oh. Yeah, that was the

631
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: like the Angel language, only I think there was an alphabet.

632
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: There was some written versions of it in that show,

633
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: but it was largely it was largely communicated through these

634
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: amazing dance moves. I watched that so long ago, although

635
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't that longer. Remember the dancing when a sixteen,

636
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: It feels like a lifetime ago, like we're due for

637
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: another season and that I'm pretty sure it got green lamp. Yeah,

638
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: they just had the one season so far. I think

639
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: it did get renewed, but I don't know when it's

640
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: going to come out. It would be nice because maybe

641
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: they could answer even one of the questions to post

642
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: in season one. But but at least Punish your two

643
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: is out right now. Yeah, really only not doing very well.

644
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't care. It's so good. I enjoyed it. I

645
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: feel like I get it. You know, he gets me,

646
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: so so Punisher aside, these beans with whom d and

647
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: Kelly were in communication told them that being able to

648
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: speak this language, being able to speak this ancient pre

649
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: human anachi and tongue, would unlock the doors to unlimited knowledge, wisdom,

650
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: and power. So let's let's get away from those claims.

651
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: Let's look at what what it actually is. You can

652
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: go online as you're listening to this episode, and you

653
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: can scroll through different analyzes and interpretations of versions of

654
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: this alphabet. It is composed of a twenty one letter alphabet.

655
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: It was written from right to left, unlike English. There

656
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: are two different versions. The first is in the manuscript

657
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: that d created called the First Five Books of the Mysteries.

658
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: The second, which is a more widely accepted version today,

659
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: comes from a book called liber Loge, which is allegedly

660
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: based on Kelly's original drawings. It's got forty nine great

661
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: letter tables or squares that are made up of forty

662
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: nine by forty nine letters, and it's said to be

663
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: the first corpus of text in this purportedly angelic language.

664
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: But the thing is, Dean Kelly said, the angels never

665
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: translated the text in that book. However, a year later

666
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: there were some texts that emerged that did come with

667
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: English translations, and therefore we see this as providing the

668
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: basis for anachi in vocabulary. The texts have poetic verses,

669
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: their forty eight of them. D in his Manuscripts calls

670
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: them the Angelic keys, and each key is assigned a

671
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: specific function within this magical system. D you see, was

672
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: planning to use them to open the forty nine gates

673
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: of wisdom or understanding represented by the forty nine magic

674
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: squares in in this pre existing book. So that's the

675
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: that's long and short, but surprise, it gets complicated. I mean,

676
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: just what am I doing with my life if I

677
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: if I can't have a goal like unlocking the forty nine,

678
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: the forty nine Gates of Wisdom, you just don't have

679
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: magic squares. That's just so cool, isn't it. If Like,

680
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: if I go, I'm going every day I'm toiling in

681
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: the basement somewhere trying to It's really important not to

682
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: compare yourselves to others. That's what social media is. It's

683
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: causing us to do. When I was in UM, when

684
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: I was carded off to this smart kids camp in

685
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: a different lifetime, one of the things that they made

686
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: us swear to do they were pretty lax on everything,

687
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: but one of the things they made us do was

688
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: swear not to leave a place they called the Magic Square.

689
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: And one of the other kids that was there with

690
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: me was convinced that that it was evidence of some

691
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: sort of devious arcane Shenanigan. WHOA, I think it was

692
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: just the name. Yeah, it wasn't salt or anything. You're sure, well,

693
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean no, but seriously, unlocking the forty nine Gates

694
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: of Wisdom is like the best quest that you could

695
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: ever find in a video game. That sounds incredible, But

696
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: he John D. Was trying to do that. I r

697
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: L Yes, yeah, And that leads us to a question,

698
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: did he succeed? What a great question. Because of the

699
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: loss of parts of his original manuscripts, there are multi

700
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: double at times conflicting interpretations regarding the meaning, validity, or

701
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: authenticity of this language. Almost immediately after it was first published,

702
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: the language was met with suspicion, skepticism, and not a

703
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: small dose of hostility, because by the sixteenth and seventeen centuries,

704
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 1: this enoch In script was considered legitimate proof of communication

705
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: with other worldlier supernatural beings. Not angels, however, demons. That

706
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: makes so much sense to me, just the idea that

707
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: a human could never reach the heights of the heaven too,

708
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: of heaven the heavens to communicate with God. But if

709
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: you are attempting communication like that, a treacherous demon from

710
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: down below is going to intercede and then give you lies,

711
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: essentially on purpose, the corruption yep, to mislead you, right

712
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: to put you in rebellion against the true powers that be,

713
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: and the whole time you'd think that you're in communication

714
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: with angels. One of the supporting platforms for that argument

715
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: would be the idea that the devil and infernal forces

716
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: typically used deception and trickery right to lead people away

717
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: from the light. They also be angels or supernatural entities

718
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: that created this language or communicated in it. Were said

719
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: to have discredited the existence of the Holy Ghost. These

720
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: kind of claims the the idea that you shouldn't pray

721
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: to or through Jesus Christ, or that the Holy Ghost

722
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. They directly attack the foundations of Christianity, and

723
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: this caused people to conclude that the quote unquote good

724
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: angels that d and Kelly contacted were actually demons. Demons

725
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: in this sense could be a reference to fallen angels,

726
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: the formerly divine creatures that rebelled against God, prompting a

727
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: war in heaven and were cast down into the pit

728
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: or escaped to the earth, or you know, it could

729
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: be h could be a reference to the watchers and

730
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: also occur in the Book of Enoch, right, the angels

731
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: that were supposed to keep an eye on mankind, you

732
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: know what I mean. The babysitters more or less, but

733
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 1: then lost their way, slept with the daughters of men

734
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: and created Nefilim. Weren't those the big rock monsters from

735
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: the Darren Aronofsky and Noah movie. Yes, they were. Yeah,

736
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: the coolest part about that movie. But but but very

737
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: out of left field. It kind of like threw me

738
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: for a loop. Hold on. Yeah, but again, we were

739
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: talking about skepticism at the time and everything, and you know,

740
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: I can hear some of you out there. Um, I

741
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: can hear the skepticism in my headphones from the future.

742
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: I can just hear it. I'm listening to it. I

743
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: can hear it because it's happening within me. Um. Up

744
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,439
Speaker 1: there it is. Again, it's just kind of a general stress. Um.

745
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: But but that knock, I'm not sure what it was, um,

746
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: but it's I guess it's just you. You kind of

747
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: have to put yourself in them and really in the mindset.

748
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: And that's what we've been trying to do in building

749
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: up to this. You know, where we are giving you

750
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: the history and the kind of the background of this stuff.

751
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: You just have to put your mind yourself in the

752
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: mindset of somebody in the Freds that truly, truly believes

753
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: these things. And this is your This is um the

754
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: concrete upon which your entire you know, world is built.

755
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: So just remember that and don't scoff at it. Yeah,

756
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 1: don't be I mean, don't be dismissive. Look, there were

757
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 1: people who lived, you know, five hundred or two thousands

758
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: something years ago. Nowadays, it's it's alarmingly easy for people

759
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: the modern age to dismiss those folks and say, oh,

760
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: that was that was so uneducated, or how could you

761
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: believe this kind of thing, you know what I mean?

762
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: But we are benefiting from centuries and millennia of progress

763
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: that none of us living had anything to do with.

764
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: We are standing on the shoulders of giants, and we

765
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: are ourselves making assumptions that will look cartoonish to people

766
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: even twenty years from now. And we say all of

767
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: that because it wasn't necessarily in any way the spiritual

768
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: nature of the claims. That were the things that seemed

769
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: that that people were most skeptical of. Yes, okay, So

770
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: for the people who outright said this is flynn flammery,

771
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: this is malarkey, this is balder dash. There were two

772
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: primary factors that indicated to them, this whole thing was

773
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: a fraud. First, Edward Kelly, who mentioned Edward Kelly Alchemists

774
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: self described to medium partner in this X spluration with

775
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: John D. He had another life before his foray into

776
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: the spiritual frontier. He was a known counterfeitter. He had

777
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: been arrested for forgery, he had been pilloried, he had

778
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: been to the dogs and back. So that makes him,

779
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: you know, a person of questionable character. Secondly, the prophecies

780
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Enochian communications don't actually come true, even

781
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: relatively mundane and specific ones, Like there was a claim

782
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: that D would one day be tried for treason. It

783
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: was not. So maybe they're misreading the timeline. Maybe it's

784
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: a syntax error and translation. But still, if you're not

785
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: getting things right and you're working with somebody that already

786
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: has a reputation as a John D, you know, it

787
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: really does kind of make you question why he's choosing

788
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: to go this route. True, that's a good point, but

789
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: we can see how there was already a contingent of

790
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: people that said, all right, everyone, I know this sounds

791
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: really cool, but we have to checker sources. Right, let's

792
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: go to the modern day. This language, the script is

793
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: still around, and now our species has vastly more sophisticated tools, techniques,

794
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: and in a more profound understanding of how language in

795
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: general is created, composed, and continues to evolve. We now

796
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: have people who travel around the world just to find

797
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: dying languages or just to find new languages that are

798
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 1: that are blossoming across the planet. So for true believers

799
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: in the modern day, this stuff is the real deal.

800
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: Maybe not specifically angels. Maybe d and Kelly didn't know

801
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: exactly what they were talking to, like those old warnings

802
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: against wigia boards, but regardless, people who consider themselves practicing

803
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: magicians will often say this is a proto language, arguably

804
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: one of the first languages, and as such it has

805
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: incredible mystical power. Speaking things like this, declaring them alters reality,

806
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: very very very potent stuff. But for linguists and for skeptics,

807
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: the structure of the language just does not match up

808
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: with what we know about every other human language. One

809
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: of the primary critics of this is a guy from Australia.

810
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: His name is Donald Lake, and he argues that the

811
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 1: phonetic features of this language anachi in or ademical script,

812
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: indicate that it was a form of gloss alalia, which

813
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: is speaking in tongues, which we have still somehow not

814
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: done an episode about, which is fine because when you

815
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: say gloss al yeah, it sounds like speaking in tongues.

816
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: This picture like la la la la la la lada.

817
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: It sounds like a Cerros song to me. Yeah, And

818
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: that's totally what they do, right, Isn't that like made

819
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: making up a language like on the Fly's kind of

820
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 1: I believe at least one album had featured that heavily.

821
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: I thought that was their whole thing, was they have

822
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: a language that vaguely sound Icelandic, but it's actually kind

823
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: of their own thing. It's like a hagan dahs. Good lord,

824
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: that would that would blow my mind. I thought it

825
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: was just that one concept album that they did that.

826
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you might be right. I'm not like a

827
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: super fan. I like their music, but I always heard

828
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: that that was a thing. Maybe maybe I was hearing

829
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: that specifically about one one record. Let us know, folks,

830
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: what languages Cigar Rose speaking? Save us the Google search,

831
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: So he doesn't end there. Donald also argues that the

832
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: syntax of a Nachian is almost identical with that of English,

833
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: rather than Semitic languages like Arabic or Hebrew, which declaimed

834
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: we're direct degraded descendants of a Nachian. And now most

835
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: linguists are clearly going to agree that this is not

836
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 1: the secret language of angels? But is it an actual language?

837
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: If it was a fraudulent enterprise, was decomplicit in the deception?

838
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: Was he in on the joke? Was he an accomplice

839
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: or a victim? Yeah? And how much money did he make? Really?

840
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: In the end, how much money do these guys make

841
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: talking about their angelic language. I'm interested. I'm gonna look

842
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: it up, but I don't I haven't seen an actually

843
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: any of the actual numbers there. And again, how much

844
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: was like hidden if there? If money was made, I

845
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: in my for my money, I would say that just

846
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: this is my opinion. D would probably believed it, just

847
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: from what I know about him and what I've learned

848
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: about him and how intelligent he was, unless he was

849
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: just trying to find, uh, you know, a quick fix

850
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: for money, But it doesn't seem like he would need that.

851
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: It seems like he truly believed it, and maybe he

852
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: got duped by Kelly. That's what it feels like to me. Yeah,

853
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: that's I think that this is a viewpoint. A lot

854
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: of people would agree with Matt because in he his

855
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: work on the subject, Donald Lacook is clearly impressed by

856
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: the consistency of the system of of the language of

857
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: the script at least, and he notes that it exhibits

858
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: a deeper understanding of the Kabbala, specifically than he would

859
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: assume someone like Edward Kelly possessed. But he still believes

860
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: this is a fraud. He does not believe this is

861
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: an otherworldly dictation or an exercise and automatic writing. He

862
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: thinks that Kelly most likely engineered this in pursuit of

863
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: a quick quid, and that D was a sincere partner

864
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: who was unaware of the deception. In his mind, Kelly

865
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: was surreptitiously looking through the works of John d or

866
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: his papers and cribbing that so that he could build

867
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 1: something that looked convincing to someone who would have D's knowledge.

868
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: And you can do that without understanding what you're mimicking, right,

869
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: that's terrifying concept. I mean, it happens, uh. And Donald

870
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 1: also believes there's evidence that Kelly he was working off

871
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 1: of small notes in his sessions. It's interesting in Kelly's

872
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: book on the subject, you can see specific times where

873
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: in the communications with the angels became garbled, and eventually

874
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: Donald Lake can just concludes that Kelly literally got his

875
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: notes in the wrong order, and that's why things didn't

876
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: seem to make sense. Dude. Yeah. Moreover, he notes how

877
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: the language this is interesting. It seems to evolve over

878
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: a short period of time from when they began collecting

879
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: the notes to when they're really hitting their stride. And

880
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: in one passage he specifically asked a great question, it's

881
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: this we have a quotation? Can Kelly have got better

882
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: at producing what was required of him as time went on?

883
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: He must have learned a great deal from living in

884
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: close contact with D, and D's credulity would blind him

885
00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 1: to slight internal contradictions. Interesting, so would have been able

886
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: to present D's knowledge back to him in a way

887
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: that confirmed what D was already certain of it? And

888
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: if so, after D d entered the sunk cost fallacy

889
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: of investing so much belief in time in this, would

890
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: he have just maybe subconsciously ignored things that were clear contradictions.

891
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: There are a couple of times where D does note

892
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: an inconsistency, but there are a lot of times where

893
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: he lets stuff slide. So at this point is where

894
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: it leaves us. People who do not believe in the

895
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: existence of supernatural beings, especially angels, probably will not see

896
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: the Anochian language as any solid proof. There's not we're

897
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: we're not really changing any minds here. But people who

898
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: do believe in in this sort of stuff, in the

899
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: existence of angelic forces or even divine or infernal forces

900
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: that are intangible and usually imperceivable to humans, uh, they

901
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: probably won't see the indication of fraud in the Anachian

902
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: language as an overall refutation of angels entire. I mean,

903
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: it's kind of like saying that Australia doesn't exist because

904
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: drop bears are not real? Are you saying drop bears

905
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: aren't real? You're stating that saying it's I mean, send

906
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: me some evidence. I don't think anyone who's ever come

907
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: across the drop bear has lived to tell the tale,

908
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: so I am holding off. Then how do we have

909
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: stories about drop bears? Uh? Obsidian mirror? Okay, well played,

910
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: all right, I'm back in. But it's true. One thing

911
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: being false doesn't invalidate everything associated with it, you know

912
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: what I mean. No, that makes a lot of sense.

913
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's kind of like saying, well,

914
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: if Tuesday's real, why isn't it tuesday? Now? You know

915
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: what I mean. That's not a very perfect I just

916
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: want to have my best comparison. I just want to

917
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: have that kind of argument all day long. If USB

918
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: is the standard, then why isn't that USB? That's not

919
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: the same. So that's that's totally right. Yeah, he's got

920
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: no no, no, I'm just I'm just some guy who

921
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: doesn't speak knocky and not yet, not yet. We want

922
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: to hear from you, however, Thank you so much for

923
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: checking out today's episode. Uh, first things first, and this

924
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: may be a personal question for some of us. Do

925
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: you feel that it is possible to communicate with things

926
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: that are perhaps beyond the pale um, something from another dimension,

927
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: something from a higher plane of existence. Let's get Graham

928
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: Hancock with it. Let's see what happens when you speak

929
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: directly to your d n A on a d M

930
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: T trip. Right. Oh man, Yeah, that sentence was great.

931
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's not me, that's Graham Hancock. That's

932
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: what he believes. The machine els and stuff. Oh sure, sure,

933
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: but just to put those words right next to each

934
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: other to get a nice ring to it. The DM,

935
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: what do you think that this is a case of

936
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: historical fraud? Do you think there's something else to the story? Um?

937
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: And if so, what or what are some other examples

938
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: of strange languages that you have encountered. You know, we're

939
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: fans of the Voyage manuscript over here, which I think

940
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: someone recently claimed to have decoded it again, but that

941
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: happens every few years, right. You can let us know

942
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: about this through any number of ways. If you do

943
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: not happen to have a black of Citian mirror with

944
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: you at this time, or if you feel your scrying

945
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: skills are a bit rusty and don't want to be mistranslated,

946
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: you can always contact us via the internet. We are

947
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: on Instagram, We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter. Talk to

948
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: the best part of the show, your fellow listeners on

949
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: our Facebook community page. Here's where it gets crazy. You

950
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: can follow me directly on Instagram where I am at

951
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: ben Bolan, I am at Embryonic insider Um. Not available.

952
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: You are so available. You've been there for me and

953
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: then for years now. You're the most emotionally available person

954
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: I had know, if not social medialy available. I just

955
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: like stalking you guys. I saw that great picture from

956
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: the holiday party that we had, the like the super

957
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: late January holiday party. Yeah, somebody nagged me really hard

958
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: on that because Ben said, we, uh, look, we really

959
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: do know how to clean up. And someone says, I

960
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 1: didn't know a gene jacket was cleaning up and now,

961
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: but the rest of me was cleaned up. Jet, you

962
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: know what you're doing. You're doing. You're doing the thing

963
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: the in cells do where you're just seeing that one negative.

964
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: It was the only content and it was the only

965
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: comment on the There are a ton of comments on

966
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: the picture I saw unless you gotten to it early.

967
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: It was very kind human beings. I think we looked good.

968
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: The only thing that would have made that picture better

969
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: is if our mysterious and enigmatic super producer Paul Mission

970
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: Controlled Decade would have deigned to make an appearance. Oh no,

971
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: he We can't reveal Paul Mission Control if he doesn't

972
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: have that airror of mystery about him, Like what is

973
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: this is basically over for people don't even understand how

974
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: his last name is spelled. I'm not gonna break that

975
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: illusion either. No, no, no, Omerta. Hey, just I gotta

976
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: stop saying, Amerta. This is like the third episode in

977
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: a row where I've just said that as a non sequity.

978
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: What were you going to say? Nothing? I was just

979
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: gonna say, send me your thoughts through your black ob

980
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: city and mirror, because now I'm thinking we need to

981
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: install one here somewhere in the office where we can,

982
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, try and communicate or send things through.

983
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: Ben doesn't have a smartphone. Ben exclusively communicates via black

984
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: obsidian mirror. Oh my god, look at your phones right now?

985
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: Would that black mirror idea? I know we're joking, but

986
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: just that concept of the black ob citian mirror, I've

987
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: never actually made that connection. Nice, you're scrying. Oh god, Well,

988
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: if you speaking of phones, if you prefer to communicate

989
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: to a phone, you can't of us a call. We

990
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: have our very own number. It is one eight three

991
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: three S C D W y T K. Yes, give

992
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,959
Speaker 1: us a call, leave us a message, and we'll see

993
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: what happens from there. It's gonna be cool no matter

994
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: what it is. By the way, by calling and leaving

995
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: a message, you give us permission to use your voice

996
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: in the podcast, or or this is a Facebook announcement

997
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: for twenty bucks or something extra, will wire tap your phone.

998
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: Don't about this, Okay, I don't want to keep us

999
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: going too long, but neither, but this is important. It's

1000
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: important for anybody who is a teen or has a

1001
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: teenager who's using Facebook. I think they cut it short

1002
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: because lawmakers became furious with this. But Facebook was offering

1003
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: teenagers a nominal fee for complete access to everything they

1004
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: do on their phone. Whoa, it was a Facebook research product.

1005
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: They would have teenagers install a VPN that let the

1006
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: company see everything they did there. And this this story

1007
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: just broke as we were going into the into the booth.

1008
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So I'm gonna look at that now.

1009
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: Some of those kids are his young a thirteen. Anyway,

1010
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: let us know what you think. If none of that

1011
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: quite bags your badgers, you can send us your suggestions

1012
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: for future episodes, your feedback on this episode, your beliefs

1013
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: about big data, big foot skepticism, and everything in between.

1014
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot com