WEBVTT - 060824 Vu Le on Why We Should Think About Non-Profits Differently ft. Leanna Taylor (Part 1) 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.120 Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.600 welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:10.119 mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm your host, 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.080 Ramsey's job. Big shout out to Maman c Ward, who 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:17.680 is out traveling the world once again making the changes 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.560 that he would like to see. And he has left 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.319 me in good hands, great hands, fantastic hands in fact, 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:27.760 because subbing in for him this week is a longtime 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.400 friend of the show and just an all around amazing person, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.519 Leanna Taylor of the Arizona Pet Project. And we have 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.960 a special guest that we're going to be talking to today. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.880 He goes by the name of Bulay, and I'm just 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.080 going to read this from your website. I think it's 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.640 hilarious and I think it really gives some insight into 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.400 just the type of person that you are. Boulay is 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:55.480 a writer, speaker, vegan ices, and the former executive director 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.400 of OURVC, a nonprofit in Seattle that promotes social justice 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.400 by developing leaders of color, strengthening organizations led by communities 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.759 of color, and fostering collaboration among diverse communities. He currently 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.240 writes the blog nonprofit af and is involved with community 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.960 centric fundraising. And so today we're going to have a 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:19.759 conversation about the nonprofit sector, something I'm not entirely familiar with. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.000 But first, welcome back. 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:23.920 To the show, Leanna, thank you so much for having 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.440 me Big Shoes to film. 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.480 Boule, the man of the Hour, Welcome to the show. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.520 How you doing the day? First off, I haven't even 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:32.400 heard your voice yet. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.240 Hi, Ramses, thanks for having me. I'm doing good. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:37.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.480 So one of the things that really stood out to 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.040 me when I was kind of doing a little bit 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.840 of research on the work that you do is you 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:47.840 seem to be very passionate about that. I know that 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.400 a lot of our listeners are very passionate about making 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.440 changes in their communities and in the world at large, 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.160 and so we're very much looking forward to the conversation we're. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:57.800 About to have today. 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.160 But before we get there, like we always do around 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.360 this time, we start the show off with some Ebony excellence, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.040 and today's Ebony Excellence is sponsored by Actively Black. There 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.560 is greatness in our DNA. Visit actively black dot com 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.120 and today's ebny Excellence comes from binnews dot com that 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.720 is the Black Information Network. A photo going viral on 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.200 social media suggests that former President Donald Trump could face 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.600 an all black appeals court in his New York hush 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.919 money case. On May thirtieth, a New York jury found 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.800 Trump guilty. On thirty four, Pellam accounts A falsifying records 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.239 related to hush money payments made to adult film star 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.600 Stormy Daniels amid the twenty sixteen election. The now viral 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.600 post a user shared a photo of five black female 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.720 justices from New York's First Department A Pellet Division, asking quote, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.080 do you think Trump has a chance with the Manhattan 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.600 Appeals Court? Unquote, Though it is possible for the five 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.799 women pictured in the post to be selected to sit 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.440 on the case, justices are randomly chosen from the pool 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.160 of First Department A Pillot Division twenty one. 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.120 Divisions twenty one members. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.480 The viral photos showing Justice Baharti pitt Burke, Justice Troy K. Weber, 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:14.640 Presiding Justice Diane t Renwick, Justice Tanya R. Kennedy, and 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.359 Justice Marsha T. Mitchell, was taken in February twenty twenty four, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.919 as the panel made history as the first time in 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.000 all black bench ever set on a case in the 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.320 first department. And so the reason why we are celebrating 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:34.560 this ebony excellence is imagine the amount of alignment that 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.960 the moon and the stars and the planets had to 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.960 achieve accomplished in order to make a moment like this happen. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:47.000 Right in and of itself, five black judges is an 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.520 amazing thing. But to know that these might be some 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.080 or all the people that are presiding over Donald Trump's 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.840 appeal is kind of like poetic justice, and that is 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.400 ebony excellence if I ever saw it. Now, back to 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:11.640 the man at hand, Broulet, before we get into some 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.440 of the questions that we have for you, for those 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.320 who are uninitiated, do us a favor and just talk 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.120 a little bit about yourself and the work that you 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.000 do and have done historically. Just again for the sake 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.119 of introducing you to our listeners. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.599 Yeah, thanks to Ramsis. I have a master's in social 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.240 work and I have run nonprofits for the past maybe 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.120 twenty years or so. I've been involved in them and 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:45.400 they range from serving immigrants to education equity work to 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.320 leadership developments. And the last organization I was working with 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.560 was trying to get more leaders of color into the 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:56.039 nonprofit sector because we oftentimes don't have enough nonprofit leaders 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.760 going into this field. Many of us have been pushed 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.640 by our families to go into to medicine or business 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.159 or law. My family tried to do that and it 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.720 did not work out, and so I went into nonprofit. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.000 And I think our sector is amazing. It's doing really 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.680 incredible work for the world, and it oftentimes is not appreciated. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.400 It's very invisible to people, even though it's so vital. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.640 Sure, but in addition to being vital, vo I mean 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.280 last I read, nonprofit is one of the leading employers 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:32.040 in the country. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.360 Yeah, we've been growing from what I heard, I think 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.960 we were growing at like two percent, whereas other sectors 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.960 were shrinking. And I think it's because younger people want 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.760 to have more meaning in their work, and oftentimes they 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.960 can't really find that in the corporate setting, so they 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.920 think maybe if they go into nonprofit work, they can 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.680 find some of that meaningful work that they've been searching for. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.120 So one of the things that I know is sort 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.440 of part and parcel to nonprofit work is money or 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:04.120 lack thereof. 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.520 Right, I famously. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.680 Was up there along with Q was famously at the 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.680 Home of a nonprofit for about ten years now. We 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:19.080 weren't you know, nonprofit stars or anything. That we were 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.440 radio guys and DJs that happened to create the corporate 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:28.560 infrastructure so that we could cultivate relationships with businesses, so 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.560 that we could provide a service to the unhoused by 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.040 providing food and hygiene and so forth. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.800 Right, But we didn't get deep at all. 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.600 Again, our day jobs as radio person now that's really 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.160 what we were doing. We just kind of had this 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.560 thing that we did once a month. It was an 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.800 event and we needed the again, the legal infrastructure under 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.240 which to operate and be in compliance. 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:54.480 Right. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.960 But I maintain and I know that you both will 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.160 probably back me up here, is that fundraising again is 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:09.800 one of the the defining elements in terms of the 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.680 success of a nonprofit. And one of the things that 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:19.720 has come up again in our conversations is this concept 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.880 of community centric fundraising. So for those who don't know, 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.040 let's talk a little bit about what that is, what 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:25.840 that means. 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.960 Yeah, fundraising is definitely a very important part of the 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:35.560 sector and nonprofits we live or die based on our 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.280 donations and grants and so on, which can be very 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.960 challenging to obtain and in order. We have a fundraising 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.680 philosophy and system right now that includes mainly making sure 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.400 that donors feel really appreciated, putting them in the center. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.320 It's called donors centered fundraising, and there is a certain 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.400 art and science around it, like, for example, you have 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.680 to make donors feel like they're the heroes. And you 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.360 do this by saying things. You know, like when you 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.120 when you write an appeal letter asking for money, you 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.840 have to use the word you many times. You can't 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.720 just say, oh, we are helping all these kids. You 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.080 got to say because of you, we helped kids. Because 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.560 of you, you did this. We couldn't do this without you. 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:22.400 So our entire databases that manage nonprofit email that will 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.160 actually measure how many times you use I language or 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:31.080 WE language versus you and encourage you to shift that 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:32.160 that writing strategy. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.040 Yeah, and over time it has trained both us and 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.400 our donors to believe that we are there to be 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.240 serving donors and they are heroes and we should be 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.240 always be grateful to them. But it's very problematic because 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.160 one is that it creates the sort of hunger games 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.520 among nonprofits where we're just competing to be to see 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.360 who can suck up the donors the best, basically, but 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.120 let's be honest, right and the other The other one 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.520 really major problem is that it avoids having these difficult 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.600 conversations with our donors about where their wealth comes from. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.320 And a lot of wealth in this country, as you know, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:15.240 comes from really inequitable means like slavery, stolen business, land 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:21.760 worker exploitation, environmental degradation, tax avoidance, colonialism, imperialism, et cetera. 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.160 And we don't talk to our donors about this because 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.680 we've been trained to sell them their heroes. So community 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.920 centric fundraising tries to reverse this by putting the community 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.800 in the center, not the donors, and that means talking 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.839 to our donors about reparation and maybe they should be 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.320 paying more taxes. It's also about nonprofits supporting one another 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.440 instead of like engaging this cutthroat competition with one another 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.720 for resources with donors. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:53.400 So one of the other things that I'm understanding is 0:09:53.440 --> 0:10:00.440 that there is a difference between It's almost like the 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.840 same way that there's a political division in this country 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.120 that is more pronounced than it has ever been before, 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.880 at least in my lifetime. There's a difference between progressives 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:16.040 and conservative funders, and my understanding is that the latter, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.920 the conservative funders, are a little bit more effective. So 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.960 talk a little bit about that and perhaps the strategies 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.000 behind that, and how perhaps the more progressive, liberal minded 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.319 individuals could adopt some of those strategies so that there 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.080 could be effective fundraising all the way around. 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.280 Yeah, I've been very frustrated with fundraising. I think many 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.520 of us in the sector have been. And it's not 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.840 just all around frustration. It's really frustrationing with a lot 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.959 of the progressive leaning funders and donors because they say 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:55.840 that they support progressive policies, they support equity and justice 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.920 and so on, but many of their practices don't really 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.240 hand out. And there has been studies now where they 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:08.080 look at, like the differences between conservative and progressive foundations 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.560 and donors and see what are the differences, and there's 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:15.000 some stark differences. Progressive conservative funders, for example, they fund 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.840 they give you a grant and it could be like 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:22.040 twenty or thirty years at a time, whereas progressive leaning funders, 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.560 you're lucky you get maybe like a two year grant. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.559 Most of them are for one year. You got to 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:31.720 reapply every single year, and it's very burdensome. There's like 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.199 this lack of trust, whereas I think with a lot 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.640 of conservative movements, they're like, well, you are aligned with 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.280 our values, and you know, we seem to be aligned. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.600 We both like this, or we both hate these people 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.440 or whatever. Right, Right, there's not a bunch of money. 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.480 One of the things that I've always enjoyed so much 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.320 about your blog, where you talk a lot about these 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:59.440 challenges that nonprofits face, particularly with funding, is the question 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.319 of sustain ability. Right. It's a question on every grant application. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.840 Often these are applications where we're writing for five thousand dollars, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.280 non renewable, one time investment, and the question is, tell 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.480 us how you're going to change your community or this 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.800 issue with this gift. And I'd love to just kick 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.760 that back over to you, because those rants on your 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.600 blog or some of my favorite things to read, they 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:33.839 have me practically well literally laughing out loud, sometimes with tears. 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.240 Yeah, there's a lot of ridiculousness that we have to 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.600 do with all the time in this sector. Funders do 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.160 expect miracles, you know, and they're like, here's five thousand 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.839 dollars white in un racism last year. It's very frustrating 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:51.800 because we have to spend like a whole year just 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.560 applying for that because many of them take months before 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.840 they actually give you an answer. And then when they 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.440 do give you money, it's like, well, here's some money, 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.280 but you can't spend it on salaries. You can only 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.800 spend it on these things computers or whatever. You can't 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.000 spend it on overhead, right, you know, like they really 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.600 hate this concept of overhead, which is staff, salaries, rants utilities, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:14.240 things that are critical. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.439 And then they ask this question of like. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.120 How are you going to sustain this program when this 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.600 money that we give you runs out and it's like 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.079 for one year, and I mean it's a ridiculous question 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.600 because all of us are like, well, we're just going 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.840 to keep fundraising because homelessness is. 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.520 Not going to go away next year. 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.040 Right. So this is another difference is that conservative funders 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.679 they understand it takes years, decades, and it takes strategies 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.719 such as ensuring that conservative judges are on the benches 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.480 because then once they're on the benches they can keep 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.920 ruling in favor of conservative policies and values for years 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.160 and years to come. Whereas progressive leaning funders, they only 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.400 think in one year terms and very narrow issues. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.880 Okay, one of the it's interesting that you mentioned that 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.400 because I was this was some months back, but I 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:13.480 was researching kind of the history of the dismantling of 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:18.559 Roe v. Wade, and there's a couple. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:19.280 Of names behind that. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:27.320 But I recalled that this was probably a fifty year 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:34.680 plan something like that, where the people were fortified fiscally speaking. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.360 They had a strategy, and they worked the plan, and 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.080 they had a very long term approach to creating the 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.680 outcomes that they wanted. And I can hear the frustration 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:51.240 in both of you guys's voice because you know, at 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.240 least with Leanna, I know that sometimes we'll have conversations 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.800 and you'd be like, Hey, I'm trying to get a 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.360 grant to continue to do the type of work that 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.560 I do to shape outcomes in my community, and I 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.840 literally have no time. I can't pay anyone else to 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.600 do it because the money is allotted for you know whatever, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.400 and it kind of sucks the life out of me. Well, yeah, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.000 but also the work that you would be doing otherwise, right, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.120 And so when you spend that much time chasing enough 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:27.080 money to sustain again, lights, overhead, that sort of stuff, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:28.640 and then you can put a little bit of money 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.600 on the ground, you can't make the changes that you 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:31.040 would like. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.680 To make, right, And I was just going to say, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.560 I mean, I think it might be helpful for people 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.000 listening to just understand, like where did nonprofits come from? 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.080 Why do they exist in the world, And. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.200 Also this might lead in Voo to some of the 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.000 work that you've been doing. So like, nonprofit and philanthropy 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:56.960 was really created to build systems and infrastructure to support 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:02.960 individuals and communities with work the government isn't doing. Right, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.760 We're kind of that social safety net to do things 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:14.080 that governments are either unwilling, unable, or can't afford. And 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:21.440 it started way way back by a bunch of predominantly women, right, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.160 predominantly white, wealthy women who came in to do work 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:30.680 in low income communities and hand out soup at soup kitchens. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.680 And that model of nonprofit philanthropy hasn't changed a ton 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:42.640 over the centuries. It still is here to support right 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:48.200 programs and people that government programs are letting slip through 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:54.720 the cracks, and is still a very predominantly white driven industry. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.800 I just think it's important to kind of level set 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.480 that because a lot of the issue is that we're 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:05.280 talking about in this work are are not by accident, right, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.520 They were built into the system, because this system parallels 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.040 the system that this country was founded on. And in 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.520 order for us to start thinking about community centric fundraising 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.639 and moving away from donor centric fundraising, we've got to 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.480 be able to have those really open, honest conversations and 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:29.720 then start inviting, not inviting, clearing spaces, making all the 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.280 room for people of color and communities of color to 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.399 get involved in different ways. Boo, I know that's something 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.199 that's really really important to you, and I think also 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.120 speaks to why the Conservatives have done philanthropy so well, right, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:50.840 It serves the conservative system of the United States. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.600 It does because you know, they still want to sort 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.880 of maintain sort of well avoid paying taxes and sure 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:04.399 that wealthy people are still in power, wealthy corporations and 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.440 the way that they so everything. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:06.880 Is aligned for them. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:11.800 Whereas for progressive philanthropy and nonprofit work, if we're actually 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.399 if we're actually successful in trying to achieving our outcomes, 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.560 many foundations would not be in existence. Many nonprofits would 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.160 not be in existence because the government would have enough 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.840 resources and would look like the community it's serving, and 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.560 it would be providing the resources that people need. So 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.840 we wouldn't have homelessness shelters, right, we would not have 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.199 services for veterans because well the government should be doing that, 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.960 but instead, you know, like we had to kind of 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.200 step in and take care of it. So, yeah, there's 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.840 an existential threat to a lot of people. And I 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.119 get into trouble. But I think, like so much in 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.639 philanthropy has been like a hobby for people, for like 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.480 wealthy people, and the sector has become like the sky 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.240 Mall catalog. Remember sky Mall catalog when we were on 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.080 the airplane. Yeah, and there's like these catalogs, those all 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.520 these cool things that we could look at and choose from. 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:12.320 I think unfortunately our sector, the nonprofit sector, progressive leanings, nonprofits, 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.399 you know, like that's what we become. We've become like 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.280 this catalog for rich people to pick and choose from. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.360 They're like, oh, I love early learners or I love 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.679 homeless people. Let me pick and choose this cause to 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:24.879 give some money to. Is that what they should be 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.240 paying doing, which is to pay taxes. 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:28.479 Okay, okay. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.920 One of the things that you mentioned that kind of 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:33.639 sparked a thought, and I'd love to get your thoughts 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:38.240 on this, is that you were talking about a government 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.480 that reflects the population, and that to me, that example 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:48.320 screams diversity, having a diverse mix of people making decisions. 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.879 So I know that this is something that's near and 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.439 dear to your heart, both of you in fact, But 0:19:54.600 --> 0:20:00.040 vou talk to us about the importance of diversity in 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.440 the nonprofit sector, what are the benefits of it, and 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.120 how those having a diverse nonprofit sector. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.040 Would help shape outcomes for communities. 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.359 Yeah. Right now, the diversity in our sector, and I 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.160 would imagine everywhere else is like a pyramid, right. It's 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.159 more diverse at the bottom level, where people don't have 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.600 enough power, so a lot of online staff. As we 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.840 move up the top of the leadership pyramid towards senior 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:33.000 level leaders, CEOs and directors and so on, board leaders, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:39.040 it's predominantly white. And it's also predominantly white men, the wealthy, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.960 white men, elite educated, you know, Ivy League graduates and 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.440 so on. So this has caused a lot of problems 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.240 for you know, ninety five percent of foundation board trustees 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.480 or the most powerful people are like are white, and 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.919 they get to determine where money goes. And this is 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.159 why ninety percent of philanthropic dollars in our second or 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.959 goes to white lead organizations who then implement strategies that 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.320 may work for certain communities, but they may not work 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.119 for marginalists, for the most marginalized communities. So the diversity 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.760 is really critical because we need the people who actually 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.240 have the live experience to actually be in charge to 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.080 allocate funding and to lead in these programs and services, 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.160 and oftentimes it's not happening, and people can be very 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.600 well meaning, but without that diversity and lit experience, a 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.800 lot of services and programs are just not as effective 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:29.399 as they could be. 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.960 One of the things that you said there reminded me 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.080 of I believe it to be a quote, but it's 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:39.160 used pretty widely. 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:40.080 It says that. 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.600 The people that are closest to the problem are often 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.840 closest to the solution. And so I kind of love 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.320 the way you strung that together because I think that 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.879 we have a tendency to think because of conditioning and 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:57.840 because of just I mean, it makes sense. I'm not 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.280 mad at anybody who thinks this way. But you know, 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:06.320 people who are Ivy league educated, they are somehow better 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:13.360 equipped to tackle these great problems that ale society. And 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.800 I understand the logic behind that thinking. If you have 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.200 no other framework, that might be something that you would 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.560 lean into. But I think that with what you're suggesting, 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.400 and again this like this a little bit of wisdom. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.080 You know, those people who are closest the problem are 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.639 closest to the solution. I think that that helps to 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.480 kind of reframe a the problem and b how to 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.040 get to the solution. And I think that there's there's 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.160 definitely something there. And I as we continue to move 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:47.920 toward a more diverse composition in terms of you know, nonprofit, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.920 ethnic composition, in terms of leadership, my hope is that 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:57.920 we will also move toward more solutions that will create 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.520 the outcomes we want to see in the world.