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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, Happy Thanksgiving. It is Thursday, November twenty seventh.

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Speaker 1: And how are you holding up at the house with

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Speaker 1: some of those relatives. How many glasses of wine are

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Speaker 1: flowing right now? Is Uncle Ted on his third beer?

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Speaker 1: Is and Lucy on her second margarita and our explosive

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Speaker 1: conversation starting to happen. Well, we have a full proof

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Speaker 1: method for surviving that foolishness. And with that, welcome to

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Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. You said this

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Speaker 1: is something I do, but I didn't know there was

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Speaker 1: a name for it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as soon as I started reading about a sort

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Speaker 2: of communication tool that can help protect you in moments

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Speaker 2: of potentially toxic and explosive conversations, you can do something

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Speaker 2: that a lot of experts have named gray rocking. And

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Speaker 2: when I read the description of what gray rocking is,

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Speaker 2: I thought, DJ does this every day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now what you just described, did you piece together

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Speaker 1: just based on the name what they were talking about?

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Speaker 3: No, I heard.

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Speaker 2: When I read the description of what gray rocking is,

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Speaker 2: I actually started laughing. So basically, I like the idea

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Speaker 2: behind it. So it's a tool they say that involves

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Speaker 2: being less engaged during an emotionally toxic interaction.

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Speaker 1: Okay, less engaged during an emotionally toxic interaction.

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Speaker 2: Right. It's become a they call it a like a

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Speaker 2: pop psychology phenomenon. It's not something that necessarily you learn

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Speaker 2: when you go to school to become a psychiatrist or

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Speaker 2: a psychologist, but it's become something. A mental health blogger

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Speaker 2: coined the phrase that's who they're giving credit to back

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, and it just exploded on social media

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Speaker 2: as things tend to do when someone says something that's funny,

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Speaker 2: that has kind of a cool name and reson and

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Speaker 2: this one resonated with a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: So here is Here is what it basically is.

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Speaker 2: You respond to comments, a goating comment, perhaps something that's

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Speaker 2: trying to get you to have a reaction, with a

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Speaker 2: blank expression and a calm, neutral tone. You basically imagine

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Speaker 2: that you're a dull gray rock.

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Speaker 1: It sounds almost like you're just ignoring the person you're listening.

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Speaker 1: This is more of your You're not ignoring them, but

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Speaker 1: you're ignoring their emotion. You're not reacting to that explosive thing,

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Speaker 1: which then, in my experience, makes people go crazy.

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Speaker 2: It one hundred percent does So when you and I

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Speaker 2: were just friends, I definitely saw you use this tool

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Speaker 2: with other people, but I had never been the recipient

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Speaker 2: of it. And then when we have had some tense

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Speaker 2: moments over the years, when you are the recipient of it, man,

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Speaker 2: you feel it. It's and it does. It makes you

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Speaker 2: crazy because you want someone to match where you are.

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Speaker 2: You want someone to spar with you, to be as

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Speaker 2: emotionally invested as you, and when they aren't, it is

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Speaker 2: remarkable what that experience is like.

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Speaker 1: I've never known this to be a thing or a tool.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from. With me, It's

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Speaker 1: just how I'm built. I never react to somebody's emotion,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't as crazy as things get. I

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Speaker 1: don't yell, I don't scream.

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Speaker 4: I don't. That's just not how I handle anything.

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Speaker 3: And somehow that's scarier.

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Speaker 1: I just I know it's you know what, it's always useless.

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Speaker 1: Always I think it's pointless. It's a waste of energy.

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Speaker 1: And if somebody's doing that, I never want to match

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Speaker 1: that energy. I can't out yell you, I can't out

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Speaker 1: emotion you.

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Speaker 2: So do your thing, but that takes so see to me,

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Speaker 2: and they talk about this, we'll get into it. It

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Speaker 2: for most of us that takes a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 2: restraint of discipline. And while you could have it probably

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Speaker 2: with some people, other people that it's much more difficult

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Speaker 2: to be able to feel the emotion you're feeling on

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Speaker 2: the inside and not show it or express it on

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Speaker 2: the outside.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I don't feel the anxiety.

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Speaker 2: That's that I was just gonna ask you, get what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Get what I'm saying, all right.

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Speaker 2: So they actually give if you know that you're walking

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Speaker 2: into a family dynamic that could possibly be explosive or

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Speaker 2: filled with tension, or you've been dealing with it today

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Speaker 2: and you have the weekend still to get through, they

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Speaker 2: actually give people some really good tips on how to

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Speaker 2: use the gray Rocking method, and a lot of it

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Speaker 2: starts with preparation. So they say, before you even go

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Speaker 2: to the dinner, before you go to the event, before

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Speaker 2: you go to the family gathering, repeat a mantra that

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Speaker 2: might allow you to tap into a gray rock mindset,

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Speaker 2: whatever that is, like I am calm, I am I

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Speaker 2: am gray, I am dull, I am boring, Like you

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Speaker 2: literally tell yourself, I am not going to be interesting wow,

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Speaker 2: Because it's also about making yourself uninteresting to talk to

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Speaker 2: if you want the conversation to end and you don't

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Speaker 2: want to be rude, or you don't want Aunt Linda

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Speaker 2: to come up and ask you ridiculous, probing questions. If

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Speaker 2: you're really boring, she'll move on to somebody who's more interesting.

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Speaker 2: And that's the concept that.

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Speaker 4: Almost sounds like you're being rude.

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Speaker 3: Well you just have, so, yes, there are. That's why

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Speaker 3: they give you tips.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you part of this is also changing your voice,

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Speaker 2: like have a flat effect. They say, a neutral tone

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Speaker 2: in your voice, so you don't so you're not like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, hi, because that's inviting someone to come

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Speaker 2: talk to you, or it probably wouldn't invite you to

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Speaker 2: come talk to me. But you're just basically like this,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of boring. Okay, limit your eye contact,

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Speaker 2: it's not a problem, and only give brief, disinterested replies. Basically,

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Speaker 2: they say it's not fun to talk with somebody who

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Speaker 2: has a blank expression and doesn't seem to be absorbing

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Speaker 2: what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, is this a tool you're supposed to use

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Speaker 1: when it's someone who is coming at you, like if

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Speaker 1: you're in an argument with a mate.

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Speaker 3: Is this a good mat is different? We'll get into that.

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Speaker 2: This is about This is about family members who you

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Speaker 2: don't have to see on a regular basis. So these

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Speaker 2: are people who you might have to see once a

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Speaker 2: year or twice a year.

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Speaker 4: But what if they're.

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Speaker 1: Talking to you about something they're genuinely excited about and

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Speaker 1: you're not interested in. Shouldn't you just lend your ear

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Speaker 1: for something they're so excited.

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Speaker 2: About, not if you want to get out of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: So they said, this is I like this. Think of

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Speaker 2: yourself like the sky. No matter how bad the weather,

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Speaker 2: no matter how violent the thunderstorm, the sky is not

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Speaker 2: damaged in any way.

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Speaker 4: Oh my Christ.

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Speaker 3: But some of this does take some mental preparation. You're

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Speaker 3: not buying it.

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Speaker 1: I am well the mental preparation. I think you lost

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Speaker 1: me a little bit. I get what you're saying. I

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Speaker 1: think it's very difficult. Like people are listening, like, give

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Speaker 1: me a real tool, and you really want me to

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Speaker 1: walk into Thanksgiving with the two kids in the back,

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Speaker 1: and I'm carrying this damn cast role and I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to go.

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Speaker 4: I will be boring. I will be boring.

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Speaker 1: I will yeah to repeat a mantra, I I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's a tool.

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Speaker 4: That most people are going to you. So what else

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Speaker 4: do you got?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so they gave they gave an example. So Uncle

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Speaker 2: Bob gets you in the corner and starts talking politics.

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Speaker 3: Okay, in previous years, you probably would have taken abait.

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Speaker 3: You would have gotten.

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Speaker 2: Into some kind of an argument that escalated, maybe even

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Speaker 2: into a shouting match. But this time, when you're gray

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Speaker 2: rocking and he says to you something just totally incendiary

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Speaker 2: about politics, this is what they suggest you do, interesting opinion?

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Speaker 3: How's work?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: You just don't take the bait.

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Speaker 2: You switch the subject, but you keep your answers really short,

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Speaker 2: you're not rude. You acknowledge what they just said, and

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Speaker 2: then you completely pivot. And if they're not going to

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Speaker 2: get out of you what they want out of you,

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Speaker 2: they'll move on to find somebody. I mean, everyone's got

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Speaker 2: an uncle like this. He's like hey, and just loves

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Speaker 2: to poke the bear. And you know you got to

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Speaker 2: walk away. But how do you do it? And how

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Speaker 2: do you not take the bait?

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Speaker 1: You know what we're talking about families and Thanksgiving now.

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Speaker 1: But man, if you use that same tool at work,

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Speaker 1: you could cut down on some of the most toxic

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Speaker 1: things that happen in a workplace.

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Speaker 4: Gossip.

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Speaker 1: Right, somebody can't wait to start talking about something a something.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I didn't hear about that, But what

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Speaker 1: time is the meeting of mark?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Don't engage in foolishness, and you know the foolishness as

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Speaker 1: soon as you hear it, pleasantly acknowledge.

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Speaker 4: It and move on.

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Speaker 2: That is exactly what they're suggesting. And but I do

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Speaker 2: appreciate this what we were talking about earlier.

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Speaker 3: Everyone.

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Speaker 2: I read several articles about this, and they all acknowledged

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Speaker 2: even if you're able to not respond emotionally, you don't

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Speaker 2: give that emotional rise it. It doesn't mean you're not

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Speaker 2: feeling something inside. So they're like, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: change how you feel on the inside, but you absolutely

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Speaker 2: can practice changing how you react on the outside, and

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Speaker 2: that makes it That's what makes it effective. So they

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Speaker 2: say that, you know, this can be incredibly difficult, especially

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Speaker 2: if someone's hitting your insecurities going right after what your

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Speaker 2: triggers are, and it sounds so easy what you're going

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Speaker 2: to and then when someone says exactly the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: It's very hard in that moment to remember to acknowledge

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Speaker 2: how you're feeling on the inside, but to not show

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Speaker 2: it on the outside.

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Speaker 1: You know, how would you poke me? You know my

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Speaker 1: triggers are well, it's my insecurities. Would you know how

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Speaker 1: to poke me?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it publicly? Wow, I might know and

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Speaker 2: I still wouldn't do it. Like, I also wonder what

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Speaker 2: people's motives are when they choose to go in that direction.

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Speaker 2: It must be a feeling of insecurity on their end,

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Speaker 2: like they want to feel superior and they know how

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Speaker 2: to take you down a notch. It's interesting though, I

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Speaker 2: touched on this when you mentioned the two of us.

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Speaker 2: They absolutely say, do not use this technique and a

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Speaker 2: romantic relationship. It will absolutely backfire completely. These are the

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Speaker 2: only techniques that you can use for folks who you

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Speaker 2: have a distant relationship with someone, because that's not how

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Speaker 2: you show up for a loving relationship. You don't just disengage.

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Speaker 2: It's not that you not acting emotionally or reacting emotionally

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Speaker 2: isn't a bad thing, but they say it's not a

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Speaker 2: way to get a romantic partner to behave Differently, like

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Speaker 2: if you think somehow I need to know you care.

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Speaker 2: I need to know you care. So I think this

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Speaker 2: is here's the quote from the psychiatrist. It's not something

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Speaker 2: you do in a relationship that you want to maintain.

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Speaker 2: You only do it in short bursts and relationships where

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Speaker 2: you have no choice but to maintain contact with this

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Speaker 2: person in an environment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're forced.

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Speaker 2: To coexist with someone at work or at the family meal,

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Speaker 2: but it's not someone who you're investing in.

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Speaker 3: A long term relationship with.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you asked me if i'd like to see how

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Speaker 2: you handle a couple questions. I came up with just

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Speaker 2: a few to see if I can trigger you. So

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Speaker 2: we'll have your your response when we come back. All

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Speaker 2: the holidays are upon us. It is Thanksgiving Day everybody,

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Speaker 2: and man, aren't you just enjoying your family that you

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Speaker 2: haven't seen for months? And now you're all together in

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Speaker 2: one room with lots of food, maybe some kids running around,

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Speaker 2: probably some alcohol flowing.

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Speaker 3: What could possibly go wrong?

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Speaker 2: It has been fun to read some coping mechanisms, some

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Speaker 2: articles that always pop up this time of year, psychiatrist

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Speaker 2: psychologists trying to help all of us handle the stress

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Speaker 2: of the holidays.

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Speaker 3: And perhaps the.

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Speaker 2: Toxic relationships that we only have to confront or deal

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Speaker 2: with a couple of times a year, this being one

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Speaker 2: of them. And one of the communication tools they suggest

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Speaker 2: you can use is something that has been colloquial come

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Speaker 2: to be known as gray rocking.

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Speaker 3: Were you familiar with that term at all?

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Speaker 4: I heard it?

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Speaker 3: Neither had I.

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Speaker 4: It was I'll just call it TJ in.

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Speaker 3: Yes, TJ is.

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Speaker 2: You're never rude, and they're not suggesting that this is rude.

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Speaker 2: It's just letting someone know that you're not going to

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Speaker 2: go there, and that's okay thing. I think this actually

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Speaker 2: has a lot to do with boundaries and learning how

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Speaker 2: to make them, but more importantly keep them.

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Speaker 3: You're very good at that.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, because I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where that comes from and why and just time and

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Speaker 1: experience and we just don't I don't know. We've been

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Speaker 1: using this line a lot the past several days, that

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Speaker 1: honesty is one of the kindest things you can grant

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Speaker 1: to somebody, and just I don't know, I don't mind

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Speaker 1: being straight with somebody. I'm never rude about it. But

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Speaker 1: you always say this to you, baby, it's not stop

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what I mean. I clearly state it.

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Speaker 3: So that's just it's just that most people don't.

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Speaker 2: Most people talk around things, they suggest things, they hint

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Speaker 2: at things, they talk in circles.

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Speaker 3: They are anything but direct.

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Speaker 2: So yes, you are consistent, consistently direct, which is not

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Speaker 2: something that most of us, I think, are used to.

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Speaker 2: But all right, so look, you're at Thanksgiving and someone

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Speaker 2: comes up to you because.

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Speaker 3: I know some of the things you don't don't want

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Speaker 3: to answer.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, So hey, DJ, long time, No see you doing.

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Speaker 3: I like what thank you? I like what you did

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Speaker 3: with that ring for Amy? How did you propose?

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Speaker 1: You know, that's something we just keep into ourselves right now.

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Speaker 1: It was very proud, but we haven't even told our parents.

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Speaker 1: But you probably won't be the first to know.

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Speaker 2: That's probably gonna be my cue to leave, because if

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Speaker 2: I did have a followup, it was like, wow, it's

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Speaker 2: that's I saw the headlines.

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Speaker 3: It's massive. How much did that sucker cost?

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Speaker 4: Oh, my goodness, more than I care to reveal.

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Speaker 2: All Right, Hey, I know, I know, I'm really happy

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Speaker 2: for you and Amy. I'm I'm happy y'all are engaged.

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Speaker 2: But man, sure you want to get married a third time.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm actually looking ahead to my fourth marriage. This

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Speaker 1: is just gonna hold me until then.

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Speaker 4: Were they going to say? I mean, what are they

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Speaker 4: gonna go? Thank you? Was icond to figure that out?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 3: I got one more for you, Hey, TJ?

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Speaker 4: Who are these people in my family gathering that all

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Speaker 4: speak to me with? Hey? Wow? It's just a bunch

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Speaker 4: of women in gig eyes?

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Speaker 2: I guess, Hey, all right, how's that podcasting income compared

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Speaker 2: to when you were that big time network anchor?

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Speaker 4: Oh it doesn't even compare. It's not even close. And

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Speaker 4: you leave it there right.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, So I need you'd be fine because

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Speaker 2: you practiced this daily, if not hourly.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You know what, You've met my mom. She's a smartass,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's where it comes from. She has

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Speaker 1: this crazy quick wit and she's dead paining.

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Speaker 4: You never know. You don't even know you've been insulted

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Speaker 4: till maybe the next day. What did you say?

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Speaker 3: The moment I met your mom?

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Speaker 2: I knew immediately where you got your your quick wit

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Speaker 2: and your personality from. I mean, you've got some elements

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Speaker 2: of your dad and you, for sure, But man, your

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Speaker 2: mom and you told me she doesn't talk much, but

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Speaker 2: when she does listen.

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Speaker 4: I guess we all become our parents in some way

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Speaker 4: of each other.

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Speaker 2: Because part of the tactic of this communication tool is

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Speaker 2: to not say much, to say much less.

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Speaker 3: And that's probably a good thing.

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Speaker 2: Because, as my mama always told me, everyone's favorite subject

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Speaker 2: is themselves.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't do well. People always think I'm outgoing,

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Speaker 1: I'm this extropt I don't like having to engage. I

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Speaker 1: don't and people I enjoy. But when you put me

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Speaker 1: in a big group where there's some expectation that you

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Speaker 1: need to be engaged rather than just if you want

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Speaker 1: to or not, I struggling. And usually in the groups

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Speaker 1: we're in, there's some expectation that we're supposed.

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Speaker 4: The whole court.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but I have learned that it is valuable

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Speaker 2: to just turn the questions back around and get cre

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Speaker 2: cious about that person, even if they're annoying you. Maybe

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Speaker 2: especially if they're annoying you, because if they're talking about themselves,

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Speaker 2: you're not having to talk about yourself period. Well, we

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Speaker 2: hope you all are enjoying your Thanksgiving on this Thursday,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully you can use this tactic in WOW there's

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Speaker 2: going to be several Christmas parties, holiday parties, more gathering,

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Speaker 2: so we got weeks left of all of this festivity, so.

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Speaker 4: Just use it at the office next week.

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Speaker 3: That's true. You could always use that as well.

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Speaker 2: All right, thank you everybody for listening to us. I'm

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Speaker 2: Amy Roboc alongside TJ. Holmes.

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Speaker 3: We will talk to you soon.