1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Okay, So The box 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Car Children was one of my absolute favorite book series 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: as a kid. Yeah, obsessed. I just like a lot 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: of other kids, got completely fished in by the very 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: adventurous idea of living without adults in an abandoned box car. 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: It's the opposite of Lord of the Flies. Everybody gets along, 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: It's really cool. It seems like a lot of fun. 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: And so I wanted to talk a little bit about 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: Gertrude Chandler Warner. And it's interesting because her work has 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: landed on a number of best books lists for kids 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: over the years, although apparently when it was very first released, 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: which even if you grew up reading them is probably 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: not the version read, there were people who allegedly wanted 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: to put it on a band book list. It's quite 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: quaint to think about that today because it's really very wholesome. 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: But the box Car Children series is the thing she's 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: known for, but it is far from the only professional 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: writing that Warner did. She made a career as a 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: writer while she was also teaching elementary school full time 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: for decades, so I thought she would be an interesting 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: person to talk about as well as why The Box 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: Car Children is so appealing. I'll go ahead and confess 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: I don't think I ever read these. I'm sure we 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: can talk about it more on Friday. I have a 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: theory that will tie into you not reading it, okay, 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: that I don't know if it holds any weight. But yes, 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: we'll discuss it on Friday. Cool. Gertrude Chandler Warner was 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: born April sixteenth, eighteen ninety in Putnam, Connecticut. Her parents 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: were Edgar and Jane Carpenter Warner. Edgar was a Harvard 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: educated lawyer, and Jane was active on the Putnam School Committee. 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Both of them came from families that had lived in 34 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: Connecticut for a long time. Jane could trace her family 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: in Connecticut back to sixteen eighty six. The Warners had 36 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: three children. Gertrude had an older sister named Francis, born 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight, and in eighteen ninety two, her 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: younger brother, John was born. The family lived in a 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: house built by the children's maternal grandfather for the family 40 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: at forty two South Main Street. There are really only 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: two what I would categorize as easily accessible biographies of Warner. 42 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: Both of them are written by the same person, that's 43 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: Mary Ellen Ellsworth. When I say easily accessible, I will 44 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: say I got mine's secondhand. But I think you can 45 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: find them online at most of the big bookstores. One 46 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: you definitely can. It's very very easily available right now. 47 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: So one is it like a biography that's a young 48 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: reader's book that's just about her, that was published in 49 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, and the other is a shorter like 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: an amended version of that which appeared in a recent 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: anniversary edition of The Box Car Children. And the approach 52 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: in both of these definitely draws parallels between the author's 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: childhood and the experiences of the children in her famous stories. 54 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: So just keep all of that in mind as we 55 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: talk through this, because the Warner Home sounds almost surreally idyllic. 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: The Warner children seem to even acknowledge this as adults. 57 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: There is a comment that Francis once noted that they 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: didn't really have much to complain about. The worst story 59 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: that she could conjure about their youth was their mother 60 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: fussing at them once for sliding down the back porch 61 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: roof when it had iced over. And if that's the 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: worst thing that happens in your family, that's a sunny 63 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: place to live. This sounds like something that my spouse's 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: brothers would have coerced them into doing. When he was 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: a child to cross the street from a train station, 66 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: and the children loved to watch the trains go by. 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: They learned the schedules so that they could identify which 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: train they were watching at any given time. The kids 69 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: put on plays and the attic and the family started 70 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: its own orchestra when the kids were in their teens. 71 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: All of the ladies in the house played string instruments. 72 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: Francis and her mother Jane, both played the violin, while 73 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: Gertrude played the cello. Cellos are expensive, and that cello 74 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: had been a special gift for Gertrude from her father. 75 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: Their father played piano and John played coronet. Gertrude was 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: fond of reading from an early age, and she and 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: her sister both loved to write. She wrote her first 78 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: story at the age of nine, titled Golliwog at the Zoo, 79 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: which he also illustrated with watercolors that book was actually 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: something of a rush job. Initially, according to the story, 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: Gertrude had come home late from school several days in 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: a row because she had lost track of time playing 83 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: tea party with friends, but she fibbed and told her 84 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: mother she had been working on a book. Jane eventually 85 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: wanted to see this book, so Gertrude just kind of 86 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: churned it out super fast so that she had something 87 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: to show her mother. She had based it on another 88 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: popular book from the time called Golliwog at the Seaside. 89 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: I sort of love that she at least still she 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: would rather than admit that she lied, she delivered on it. 91 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm like this is I understand this. Jane bought notebooks 92 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: to encourage both of her daughter's creative writing. Presumably she 93 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: would have bought them for John as well, but he 94 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: was not focused on that. Gertrude refined her slap dash 95 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: Golliwog book, made it a little more, a little more cohesive, 96 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: added the illustrations, and then she gave that completed manuscript 97 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: of Golliwog at the Zoo to her grandfather as his 98 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: Christmas gift that year, And that actually started a tradition 99 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: because each year thereafter she made a new book with 100 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: a new story for another family member. Francis would also 101 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: join in on these projects. From time to time, she 102 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: would bind the books, and she sometimes contributed illustrations, and 103 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: sometimes they were narratives like Golliwog, but sometimes they were 104 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: sets of short stories that were combined into one project, 105 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: like a little anthology for the year. And as Gertrude 106 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: got older, of course, these stories became longer and more complex. Francis, Gertrude, 107 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: and John also spent time with their nearby relatives and 108 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: frequently explored the woods. They learned about the plants and 109 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: animals in the area from their grandfather and great uncle, 110 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: and they also spent time in nature on their own. 111 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: These three siblings were very close. We'll talk about some 112 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: of their relationship leader in a book that Gertrude writes. 113 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: High school, though, did not go well for Gertrude Warner, 114 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: not because she wasn't interested or a good student, but 115 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: because she had ongoing health issues. She had a number 116 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: of illnesses since childhood, including measles and mumps, and she's 117 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: often described as having sort of a chronic sore throat. 118 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: I don't that seems like it's probably indicative of something else, 119 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: but what that's something else is is never really pinpointed. 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: And because of this chronic ill health, she had to 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: stay home from school so often during high school that 122 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: even though she had a tutor, she was just unable 123 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: to keep up and unable to finish and get her diploma. 124 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: As her siblings finished school and went on to careers, 125 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: Francis is a teacher and writer, and John as an engineer, 126 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: Gertrude stayed home, but she did start writing, first for 127 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: a Sunday school newspaper, and she wrote her first novel, 128 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: The House of Delight, which was published in nineteen sixteen. 129 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: The House of Delight is a novel for kids. Project 130 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: Gutenberg puts it at a sixth grade reading level. It's 131 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: about a girl and her dolls and their dollhouse. Warner 132 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: dedicated it to her grandfather, who she calls my best 133 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: f playmate. Her brother John photographed dolls that she had 134 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: arranged for the book's illustrations. Overall, it's pretty charming. There's 135 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: one primary issue that we'll talk about in a second, 136 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: but there are two persons listed in the book. Quote 137 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: William Delight, a bisk doll just as long as Betsy's hand, 138 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: and the other one is quote Betsy a real girl 139 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: who takes the part of and then it lists all 140 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: of the other characters underneath it, so William seems like 141 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: a real entity, almost even though he's a doll. The 142 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: preface sets up the concept of the book. Quote Betsy 143 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: was a curly headed little girl nine years old who 144 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: played with her dolls in the most interesting way you 145 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: ever saw. Little Missus Delight, with her soft brown hair 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: and beautiful brown eyes, was Betsy's very dearest doll, and 147 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: she played most of the time with her and her 148 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: charming little husband, Mister Delight. But Betsy's sister Anne, who 149 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: was away at school and who was much too old 150 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: to play with dolls any, had given mister and Missus 151 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: Delight to Betsy, for it did seem too bad to 152 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: keep them packed away in their dark, stuffy box. Now, 153 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: Betsy didn't call herself the doll's mother, for they were 154 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: all grown up and much older than she was already, 155 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: and they seemed to need a new chair or new 156 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: beds so very often that a carpenter was necessary most 157 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: of the time. So whenever mister Delight wished to order 158 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: new furniture, Betsy called herself mister betts and talked exactly 159 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: like a carpenter. When Missus Delight needed new dresses or 160 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: new curtains, Betsy called herself Madam Bettina and talked as 161 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: nearly as she could, like mother's French dressmaker. And when 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 1: any of the dolls were sick, Betsy at once took 163 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: the part of old doctor Betson and talked gruffly with 164 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: them about tonics and pills. She talked for each of 165 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: the dolls too, and if you had listened in the 166 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: next room, you would have said that at least three 167 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: or four people were talking. So the book unfolds almost 168 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: like a play, and Betsy's world and the dolls world 169 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: is one and the same. When the do talking or 170 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: having any kind of business, they're written about as active characters, 171 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: not something a little girl is playing with. For example, 172 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: when Betsy is given her dollhouse as a gift for 173 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: her ninth birthday, Betsy's play and the doll's reactions are 174 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: integrated together this way. Little mister Delight was sitting in 175 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: his law office behind the radiator. Betsy picked him up, 176 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: put on his great Derby hat, and walked him rapidly 177 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: across the room to the Morris chair. Edith, Oh, Edith, 178 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: He cried excitedly, my salary has been raised to a 179 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: million dollars a year. Now we can move into a 180 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: new house. How perfectly lovely, cried missus delight. Can't we 181 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: buy one directly? A million dollars a year? A million? 182 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: That is so? It was very charming. H A lot 183 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: of the book really is about ingenuity and problem solving 184 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: through play, as Betsy sees to the needs of her 185 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: dolls lives and figures out ways to make the furniture 186 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: close and other accessories they require. This is kind of 187 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: a theme that appears throughout a lot of her books 188 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: that she writes for kids. But there is a problematic 189 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: element to it that we mentioned earlier in the form 190 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: of the Delights Cook, who is a rag doll that 191 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: Betsy made to look like a black woman, and her 192 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: dialogue is written in an outdated and borderline racist way. 193 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: I will say it is not nearly as bad as 194 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: some of the other things like it I have read, 195 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: but it definitely like sets her apart as being uneducated 196 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: and you know, from a completely different social class. It 197 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: seemed like Warner was poised to start a career as 198 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: a writer, but that was not a direct line thanks 199 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: to world events. We will talk about how she fell 200 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: into another career after we pause or a sponsor break. 201 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: Twenty seven year old Warner was incredibly ex to have 202 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: her first book published. The House of Delight, had a 203 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: run of one thousand copies, and after it was published, 204 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: she continued to pursue a writing career by following in 205 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: her sister Francis's example and writing for magazines. But the 206 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: United States entry into World War One in nineteen seventeen 207 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: shifted the course of Gertrude's life, as their town of 208 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: Putnam lost some of their working age young men to 209 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: the war. It also lost many of the women who 210 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: had been working as teachers to mill jobs that provided 211 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: necessary materials for the war effort, and that meant that 212 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: there was a real need for teachers. Although she hadn't 213 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: finished high school, Gertrude had continued her own self directed study, 214 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: and she was deemed fit enough to help teach first grade. 215 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: She worked as an assistant to another teacher for several months, 216 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: but this was also at the time when the flu 217 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: pandemic was starting and the teacher she was working with 218 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: died after contracting it. At that point, Warner took over 219 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: the class entirely. The idea was that she just needed 220 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: to do it as long as the war continued to 221 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: keep the career teachers occupied elsewhere, but that wasn't how 222 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: things played out. Warner was really good at teaching, and 223 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: the school kept her on. Teaching became her permanent career, 224 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: and she taught first and third grade for the next 225 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: thirty two years. She also continued to write and publish. 226 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: She worded with a magazine called Little Folks, writing stories 227 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: about nature and astronomy. In nineteen eighteen, her astronomy pieces 228 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: for the magazine were collected and published in a book 229 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: titled Star Stories for Little Folks. And this book has 230 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: the conceit that a student named Helen is relaying her 231 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: experiences in learning about the stars from a doctor Lorie, 232 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: And it opens with a letter from Helen to the 233 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: reader which includes quote before you read this little book, 234 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: doctor Lourie says, I must tell you that the stars 235 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: are not always in the same place in the sky. 236 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: If you are not acquainted with them, it is easier 237 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: to find them when they are just coming up in 238 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: the east. So under the name of each group of stars, 239 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: you will find the best time of year to look 240 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: for it. As soon as you find a constellation, write 241 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: the date on the dotted line under the picture. Then 242 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: you will know when you have earned your diploma. I 243 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: hope you will have as good a time as I 244 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: did finding the fifteen constellations. And then this cute letter 245 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: is signed your little friend Helen. The book gives instructions 246 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: with rudimentary drawings on how to find various constellations, and 247 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: the narrative of Helen's experience of learning them is told 248 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: along with it. She begins the story sick in some 249 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: way that's not detailed, and doctor Lorie promises he will 250 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: teach her about stars when she's well enough to go outside. 251 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: From there, her learning and health progress in tandem as 252 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: she has various adventures. At the end is a diploma 253 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: that the reader can fill out with their name. Another 254 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: book of collected writing was published in nineteen twenty one, 255 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: and this is titled Life's Minor Collisions. And this is 256 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: a book that Gertrude co authored with her sister Francis, 257 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: pulling from writings that they had each done for the 258 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: Atlantic Monthly and Ladies Home Journal, and unlike Gertrude's previously 259 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: published works, this book was written for adults, and it 260 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: featured essays about the various challenges each of the Warner 261 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: daughters had experienced in life. The preface to this book 262 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: is also quite charming. It reads quote, collisions are measured 263 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: by what they will smash. Potentially all collisions are major. 264 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: A slight blow will explode a bomb. But since most 265 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: of us do not commonly carry dynamite through the busy 266 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: sections of this life, we can take a good many 267 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: brisk knocks and still survive. The collisions, though dealt with 268 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: in separate chapters by two of us, are seldom between 269 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: two people alone. They are collisions mostly minor, between the 270 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: individual and the group the individual and circumstances, the individual 271 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: and the horror he rides on. All the chapters are 272 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: for those kindred spirits who try to be easy to 273 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: live with and find it difficult. The chapters each cover 274 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: different kinds of collisions. The first, for example, is about 275 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: the way it can be easy to hurt the people 276 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: we're closest to, particularly family. The second is about a 277 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: brother and sister arguing over the sister's inherent difficulty with 278 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: learning directions to get places. It includes this description of 279 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: the brother's inherent ability to find his way quote, he 280 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: branches from one street into another with as sure an 281 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: instinct as a cat who retraces on foot a journey 282 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: once traversed in a bag. This is not because he 283 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: knows Boston, but because he has a capacity for Boston. 284 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: There's also an essay titled More to It Than You'd 285 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: Think that examines the fact that people don't really understand 286 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: another person's job unless they've actually worked in that field. 287 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: Warner shares her experiences as a teacher to illustrate that fact. 288 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: She shares a rather lovely approach to teaching in this 289 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: passage quote, it is true that children with the best 290 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: intentions sometimes bring inappropriate busy work to school. But teaching 291 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: them has not dowered me with any disdain for my students. 292 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: They are beneath me only in years. In fact, I 293 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: raise my hat to some of them in spirit, as 294 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: I teach them to raise theirs to me in truth. 295 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: Here and there I calmly recognize a superior She also 296 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: shares how she's able to envision the great future lives 297 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: and achievements of her students, and how she's careful in 298 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: scenarios where she has to discipline them to not break 299 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: their spirits. It is apparent in reading her writing about 300 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: teaching that this was a profession that Warner really loved 301 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: and was probably great at, and that is also supported 302 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: by things that her former students said. One of her 303 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: former students, Ruth Flagg, told The New York Times in 304 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, quote, when she read to us, 305 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: she made me her page turner. She was aware that 306 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: not all children learned in the same way. Each child 307 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: was meant to feel special. She just had that gift. Flag, 308 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: for example, had been incredibly shy, and that page turning 309 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: job was a way to involve and encourage her. Flag 310 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: also said quote, she always encouraged our imaginations. It was 311 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: an adventure to come to her class each day. That 312 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: is so sweet. It is very sweet. But Warner's ongoing 313 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: health issues meant that just as she'd missed a lot 314 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: of school when she was a child, she sometimes had 315 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: to take leaves of absences from teaching due to her health. 316 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: But she wasn't idle during those times. She would take 317 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: advantage of the downtime to write. It was during one 318 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: of these leaves from work in the early nineteen twenties 319 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: that she penned The Box Car Children. Rand McNally published 320 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: the book in nineteen twenty four. It featured the tale 321 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: of four orphan children, Henry, Jess, Violet, and Benny Alden. 322 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: There isn't in the book a lot of information about 323 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: what happened to these children before the narrative starts, and 324 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: even some of the plot points that drive the character's 325 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: behavior never really gets an explanation. We'll talk a little 326 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: bit about that more in just a moment, but it 327 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: shares the story of how these children survive on their own. 328 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: They're a very plucky quartet. All of them are pretty 329 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: upbeat despite their circumstances, and they managed to get along 330 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: just fine for a while, until Violet gets sick and 331 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: they have to ask an adult for help. The Danu 332 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: mom is very happy. Spoiler alert in case you haven't 333 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: read them, I guess skip ahead, but these books are 334 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: one hundred years old. They end up living in a 335 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: lavish house with their wealthy grandfather, and even the one 336 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: happy ending detour that pops up that they might not 337 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: get to keep. The dog they found in the woods 338 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: actually has a very positive resolution. Though that book would 339 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: become the writing that Warner is most known for. When 340 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: it was first released, it was just sort of a blip. 341 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: The nineteen twenty four version was popular with kids, and 342 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: although we couldn't find any references to this fact outside 343 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: of Warner's account, she noted that librarians didn't seem to 344 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: care for it. According to Warner, the protestations were because 345 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: the children were just far too happy without any kind 346 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: of adult supervision. But Warner always said of this complaint quote, 347 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: that is exactly why children like it. This is funny 348 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: to me because children without parents is like a very 349 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: common theme in fairy tales and children's stories. But I 350 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: think the fact that they were getting along just fine 351 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: is like, no, no, we need to teach them that 352 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: they need those missing parents. And it's like, well, you know, 353 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: other than that illness, they were doing a okay, but 354 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: not knowing that this story of four orphans who live 355 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: in a box car would become a classic. We'll talk 356 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: about that book in just a bit. Gertrude went on 357 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: with her life. She kept teaching, writing and playing music. 358 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: She learned to play the pipe organs so she could 359 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: substitute for the organist at church, and she published another 360 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: book in nineteen twenty six called Good Americans First Lessons 361 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: for the littlest Ones. Good Americans is an update to 362 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: an existing set of lessons that were popular in the 363 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: United States at the time to teach children about morality 364 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: and citizenship. We are going to have an upcoming episode 365 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: about this morality code for kids. Warner notes that the 366 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: system as it exists is great, but some of the 367 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: content is quote rather vague for six year olds, so 368 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: her book addresses the same ideas in a way that's 369 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: simplified for younger students. Warner notes in the introduction that 370 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: she found these sorts of lessons turned out to be 371 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: the favorites of the children she taught, in part because 372 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: they feature the use of paper dolls in stories that 373 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: give the lesson. It's a complete program for teachers that 374 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: focuses on five subjects, health, self control, reliability, good workmanship, 375 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: and kindness. The health story, for example, uses the paper 376 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: doll character Billy Bumps and points out that he maintains 377 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: good hygiene, gets enough sleep, drinks enough water, etc. To 378 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: keep himself healthy. The point is that if Billy isn't 379 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: taking care of himself. He won't be in any kind 380 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: of shape to be a good American. There was a 381 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: lot of concern at this time about whether kids in 382 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: the post World War One United States would grow up 383 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: into adults that could properly uphold the Republic. Yeah, we'll 384 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: talk more about all of that in that upcoming episode 385 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: on the Children's Morality Code. This is getting back to 386 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: Warner though. Warner's father, Edgar, died in nineteen twenty eight, 387 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: and at that point Gertrude still lived at home with 388 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: her parents, and this death actually led Gertrude and her mother, Jane, 389 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: to move, but they didn't go far. They just moved 390 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: down the street to live with Jane's mother, Marcia. That 391 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: would have been Gertrude's grandmother. She needed some help and 392 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: care in her advancing age. Marcia died the year after Edgar, 393 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: and Gertrude and her mother stayed on in the house. 394 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: But in nineteen thirty two, Jane also died at the 395 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: age of sixty six, and that meant that Gertrude, then 396 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: aged forty two, lived alone for the first time in 397 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: her life. We'll talk about this new phase of Warner's 398 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: life after we hear from the sponsors that keep stuffy 399 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: miss in history class. Gulling through all of the losses 400 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: that Warner experienced. In that brief period of time, she 401 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: had continued to write, and once she was the only 402 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 1: person in the house, her focus on her writing intensified. 403 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: The year before her father died, Warner had published the 404 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: first book in a four volume series designed to teach 405 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: children about other cultures, and these are, like her other 406 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: books for kids, laid out in a narrative where the 407 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: main character encounters other people and learns about them as 408 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: a sort of stand in for the reader. In the 409 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: beginnings of these books, she often thanked the various people 410 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: who had advised her in the writing, so while none 411 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: of them are called out with specificity in terms of 412 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: what they contributed, it seems that she was talking to 413 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: people who were knowledgeable about the cultures that Warner didn't 414 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: have familiarity with. This series was collected into an educational 415 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: course called The Friendly Farmers, a course for primary boys 416 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: and girls on rural life around the world. Okay, confession, 417 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: I didn't read all of these partially because the first 418 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: one is a little hard to find on its own, 419 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: and then it's just like you're tracing down, you know, 420 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: various scans from different sources. What I did read seemed 421 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: pretty respectful, but one that I was not able to 422 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: get a hold of that I really want I wanted 423 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: to look at was called Children of the Harvest, and 424 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: in it, Warner teaches kids about migrant workers and how 425 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: some children are part of that system, and she encourages 426 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: readers to get in touch with the Home Mission Council, 427 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: which was a religious organization, so that they could send 428 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: aid in the forms of gifts to those children. So, 429 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: having not read it, it's impossible to know if this 430 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: well intentioned idea comes off as dicey in any way, 431 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: or how accurate her portrayal of any of these cultures are. 432 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: The year that Gertrude lost her mother, she also was 433 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: seriously injured in a car accident. She was a passenger 434 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: in her aunt's car when her aunt had to swerve 435 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: to avoid a truck that was backing into the road. 436 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: The car ran into a fence, and Gertrude, who was 437 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: the only person injured in the crash, ended up in 438 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: the hospital for several months with a broken back. During 439 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: her convalescence, she wrote because she and her sister Francis 440 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: had another collaborative project in process for adult readers, and 441 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: she didn't want to derail it. Even in her compromise state, 442 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: she was really, really intent that they were not going 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: to slip their deadline. That book, Pleasures in Palaces, was 444 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: published in nineteen thirty three, and this, like their first 445 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 1: book together, was a compilation of essays that had mostly 446 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: been previously published in magazines, and the stories in it 447 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: are from their real lives, mostly related to travel. Despite 448 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: having gone through so much loss in the years leading 449 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: up to this book, Warner exhibits an attitude of total positivity, 450 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: noting regarding her change in status to being by herself 451 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: most of the time that in traveling alone, she's really 452 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: likely to make good friends. She also did not sit 453 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: idle or even seemed to ease back into her life. 454 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: Once she had recovered from her injuries, she knew that 455 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: she wanted to focus even more on writing for children, 456 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: so she did two things. One is that she took 457 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: a summer job working in publishing in Chicago. That was 458 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six. Then from nine teen thirty seven 459 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty nine, she spent her summers attending teacher 460 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: training classes at Yale. At this point she had been 461 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: teaching for almost twenty years, so she kind of breathed 462 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: through this work and allegedly shocked one of her professors 463 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: when she confessed that she had never finished high school. 464 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: But she came out of this training really focused on 465 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: her path as a writer, which was an area she 466 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: had already been working in. She wanted to write books 467 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: that were accessible to young readers, or readers for whom 468 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: English was not their first language. She first looked at 469 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: the stories that were already popular with kids to see 470 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: if she could simplify any of them for her target 471 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: audience without losing the energy or excitement of the original narrative. 472 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: And after she produced a number of these, she turned 473 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: back to her own work, and in nineteen forty two, 474 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: Warner published a new version of The Box Car Children. 475 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: This new version isn't to rewrite in terms of the narrative. 476 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: The story still moves along with the same beats, the 477 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: caric are the same, but the language is simplified. Sentences 478 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: are shorter and easier to parse for younger readers, and 479 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: the vocabulary was less challenging. Warner made herself a rule 480 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: that the rewrite could only use six hundred different words. 481 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: The one big change is that the children's backstory did 482 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: get a makeover in the later version of the book. 483 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: It's one that's still tragic. They were orphaned, after all, 484 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: but in a more palatable way. This only takes up 485 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: the first few pages of the book, so it's not 486 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: a huge change. But the opening paragraph of the original 487 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four version reads quote about seven o'clock one 488 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: hot summer evening, a strange family moved into the little 489 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: village of Middlesex. Nobody knew where they came from or 490 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: who they were, but the neighbors soon made up their 491 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: minds what they thought of the strangers. For the father 492 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: was very drunk. He could hardly walk up the rickety 493 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: front steps of the old tumble down house, and his 494 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: thirteen year old son had to help him. Towards eight o'clock, 495 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: a pretty capable looking girl of twelve came out of 496 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: the house and bought a loaf of bread at the baker's, 497 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: and that was all the villagers learned about the newcomers 498 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: that night. And in that nineteen twenty four version, things 499 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: progress very quickly from there. Their father actually dies the 500 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: next day, and the bakeshop woman and her husband, the baker, 501 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: intend to send the children to their grandfather, so the 502 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: children run away. The nineteen forty two version, in comparison, 503 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: starts like this quote. One warm night, four children stood 504 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 1: in front of a bakery. No one knew them, no 505 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: one knew where they had come from. In this version, 506 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: the baker's wife, who does not like children, sells them 507 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: three loaves of bread, and then the children ask if 508 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,239 Speaker 1: they can sleep in the bakery that night and wash 509 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: dishes for them in the morning. In this version, the 510 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: baker woman intends to keep the three older children for 511 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: a while to work in the bakery, but she and 512 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: her husband planned to send Benny, the youngest, to the 513 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: children's home and then ship the older children to their 514 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: grandfather when they get tired of them. That catalyzes the 515 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: children's exit. Incidentally, the one hundredth anniversary edition of the book, 516 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: published by Random House in twenty twenty four, does not 517 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: use the one hundred year old book. It uses the 518 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: nineteen forty two edition. Yeah, they leave out the drunk 519 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: dad and the baker woman, who is kind of like 520 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the equivalent of a wicked witch character in a fairy tale. 521 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: Is very minimized. There are some head scratchy elements for 522 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: both books. The main reason that the children run away 523 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: despite knowing that they have a grandfather who wants to 524 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: take them in, they spend time evading him because they 525 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: know he is like posting, you know, signs up around 526 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: town that he's looking for these kids is that they 527 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: are convinced that that grandfather disliked their mother and thus 528 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with their father once he had 529 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: married her and had a family. This issue never gets 530 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: addressed again, even once the wealthy grandfather turns out to 531 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: be very kind and loving, and there's a whole set 532 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: of events that happen where they learn that this nice 533 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: man is their grandfather. No one stops to go, hey, 534 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: why did you think you hated your mom? It never 535 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 1: comes up, and they just kind of accept everything at 536 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: face value. Modern criticisms of The Box Car Children also 537 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: note some other issues. Writing for The New Yorker in 538 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Giatolentino notes, quote The Box Car Children, one realizes, 539 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: upon rereading it is an odd sort of capitalist parable 540 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: in which children without parents recreate the division of labor 541 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: that in the nineteen forties would become increasingly associated with 542 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: a popular vision of the American nuclear family, and it 543 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: does shake out that way. Jess and Henry take on 544 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: the parental roles and Violet and Benny fall more into 545 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: the role of children. Although Violet does a lot of 546 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: childcare and domestic chores like sewing, she's often noted for 547 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: how smart she is and how often she sees solutions 548 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: to their challenges. Once they find the box car in 549 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: the woods, Henry goes out and find ways to make money, 550 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: while the girls stay in the box car, caring for 551 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: Benny and literally homemaking by creating curtains, making a shelf 552 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: to hold the dishes that they've managed to forage, cooking 553 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: all of that. Tolantino also makes the point that while 554 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: the children are orphaned, they focus entirely on their future, 555 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: and they just don't get bogged down in their grief 556 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: or talk about their past and their tragedy. This lets 557 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: readers focus on the story, the adventure and the children's 558 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: resilience without the emotional baggage that would normally come with 559 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: such a scenario. None of the children even cry. There 560 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: is never a sentence about I miss mom and Dad. 561 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: The only crying that happens is when Violet gets really, 562 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: really ill, she starts to cry uncontrollably, and that's what 563 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: makes Jess and Henry realize that she's sick. It's not 564 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: very emotional, it's just like being physically weak crying. This 565 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: may make it easier for kids to read, but it 566 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: also feels sort of surreal to read about four kids 567 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: happily housekeeping and problem solving immediately after such a huge loss. Still, 568 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: the book was wildly popular, and because of the simplified language, 569 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: it got kids who thought they weren't interested in reading 570 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: really invested in it. They saw sort of an escape 571 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: fantasy in the story of the Aldens. Warner herself frequently 572 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: said that she wrote it because she thought it would 573 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: be fun to run away and live in an abandoned boxcar. 574 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: Between the updated version of the book and the end 575 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: of the nineteen forties, Warner went back to teaching and 576 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: also other writing projects. She ashally wrote several reference books 577 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: during this time and some biographies. But then in nineteen 578 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: forty nine, The box Car Children got a sequel, Surprise Island. 579 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: In this book, written by one the children, who now 580 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: live in a mansion, spend a summer on their grandfather's 581 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,479 Speaker 1: private island, so pretty significantly different circumstances. But they soon 582 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: realized that the friendly handyman on the island, Joe, has 583 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: a secret, and they set out to discover it, and 584 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: this kicks off the box Car Children's series as a 585 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: batch of mystery books. The year after Surprise Island was published, 586 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: Warner retired from teaching at the age of sixty so 587 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: she could focus on her volunteer work with the Red 588 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: Cross and the Connecticut Cancer Society, and on writing more 589 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: children's books. In nineteen fifty three, she published the third 590 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: Boxcar children book, The Yellow House Mystery, but her next 591 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: book wasn't another box Car book. It was a children's 592 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: adaptation of One thousand and one Nights. She soon turned 593 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: back to her own series and published Mystery Ranch in 594 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight. From there, she continued to churn out 595 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Boxcar children's stories, eventually writing nineteen of them, including while 596 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: she was hospitalized for a broken hip at the end 597 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: of the nineteen fifties. Warner continued to teach even though 598 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: she was retired, but in a very informal way. In 599 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, she moved from the home that she 600 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: had lived in with her mother and grandmother to a 601 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: home that she shared with her friend Esther Wells, and 602 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: her house was sort of open to the kids of 603 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, and she would have them over for nighttime 604 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 1: constellation spotting or to talk about books that they had read. 605 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: She stayed very active in her community until nineteen seventy four, 606 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: when she shattered her hip. She was eighty four at 607 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: this point, and this injury severely limited her mobility even 608 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: after she had healed. So that is her second broken hip, 609 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: just in case you're curious if we accidentally repeated Nope, 610 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: second second time. Her vision at this point had also declined, 611 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 1: so she couldn't read as much as she had throughout 612 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: her life, but she did find ways to continue her 613 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: interests in her work. She listened to a lot of 614 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: audio recordings of books and to the television, and she 615 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: still had visitors. Then in nineteen seventy nine, she had 616 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: a long illness and she died on August thirtieth. She 617 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,760 Speaker 1: had lived long enough to see a new elementary school 618 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: built in Putnam the year before, and the library in 619 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: that school was named the Gertrude See Warner Library. Gertrude's 620 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: Church was the Congregational Church of Putnam and posthumously published 621 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: two chapters of her last project in their newsletter. It 622 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: was titled Sunday School Lessons for shut Ins. Since Warner's death, 623 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: there have been other writers that have penned Box Car 624 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: Children books, and the first and second books have been 625 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: made into animated movies. In two thousand and four, Putnam 626 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: established the Gertrude Chandler Warner Boxcar Museum, which includes artifacts 627 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: from the author's life, including the desk where she wrote 628 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: that first rushed Golliwog story at the age of nine. 629 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: It also has a replica of the Alden Children set 630 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: up in their box car, and all of this is 631 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: housed in a vintage Depression era bo box car that 632 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: was donated by the Connecticut Trolley Museum. That museum is 633 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: still open. It's open seasonally to visitors. It's usually like 634 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: in the warmer months of the year, and I think 635 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: it has kind of limited hours, so if you're there 636 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: and you want to check it out, make sure you 637 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: check their open hours. But that is Gertie Chandler Warner 638 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: and the box Car Children much beloved by me. Do 639 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: you have some beloved listener mail? I do this one 640 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: just tickled me to pieces for two reasons, one of 641 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: which is actually in the content of the email, and 642 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: one of which is in the photograph. This is from 643 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: our listener Wendy, who writes, Hello, ladies, I just listened 644 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: to the podcast about Charles Nessler's Permanent Waves. Yes I'm 645 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: a bit behind, but I binge listen, so it's fine. 646 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: I have quite the coincidence that I think you'll enjoy. 647 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: Last Saturday, my mom, me and my sisters all went 648 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: to my cousin's salon to get our hair done and 649 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: the conversation turned to per and my cousin mentioned that 650 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: our grandma used to get perms that were plugged into 651 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: the wall. She described it as this big apparatus that 652 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: hung from the ceiling that plugged into the wall. We 653 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: all thought she was crazy. Even my mom, who is 654 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: in her seventies, thought my cousin was up in the 655 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: night as well. Then I ended up coming upon that episode. 656 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: We laughed at the thought of our grandma hooked up. 657 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: But glad our cousin is not as crazy as we 658 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: thought that It tickles me a little bit. I'm telling you, 659 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: go to Magic Kingdom and ride the people mover and 660 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 1: you'll see one of these sort of anyway, Wendy attached 661 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: to pet tax of her standard poodle Brownie, who she 662 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: says can be a drama queen when she wants to be. 663 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, everybody knows I love poodles, and 664 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: I love a poodle and a puppy clip, which this 665 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: dog is. It's the cutest thing on the planet. But 666 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: here's what tickled me. Double the dog is on what 667 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: looks like a bed with comforter and some afghans, but 668 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: in the background is a BB eight plush and I 669 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: have the same one, and it just made me. You know, 670 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: Star Wars in your dog picture. Come on, that's an 671 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: a plus. Thank you Wendy for writing us. I'm glad 672 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: that we were able to corroborate your cousin's story and 673 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: make you realize she, in fact is knowledgeable and not 674 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: talking nonsense. If you would like to write to us, 675 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: you can do so at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 676 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio 677 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Stuff 678 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 679 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 680 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.