Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Have an amazing
Speaker 3: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?
Speaker 4: Indeed we do.
Speaker 2: Lots of gigantic news unfolding. Basher Alisad's government in Siri
Speaker 2: has collapsed. He has fled the country to Moscow. Jerrescahill
Speaker 2: is going to join us to try to figure out
Speaker 2: what the hell is going on and what might come next,
Speaker 2: as best as anyone can possibly figure. Also, the manhunt
Speaker 2: for that killer of the healthcare CEO continues. Some interesting
Speaker 2: evidence has been located, and also the cultural reaction continues
Speaker 2: as well, and our own Ken Clippenstein got leaked. The
Speaker 2: CEO of that company is like the larger healthcare group
Speaker 2: his response, which is interesting as well. The FDA has
Speaker 2: announced a new sweeping testing regime of the nation's dairy
Speaker 2: supply amid fears of a new pandemic spark by bird flu,
Speaker 2: which has been ravaging dairy cowed herds across the western
Speaker 2: part of the country. So something definitely to keep an
Speaker 2: eye on there. Trump gave a wide ranging interview to
Speaker 2: Kristen Welker over at NBC News. Will bring you some
Speaker 2: of the highlights of that and a little bit of reaction.
Speaker 2: I'm taking a look at all of the billionaires in
Speaker 2: Trump's administration and what they might want. And we also
Speaker 2: had an update last evening. A civil lawsuit has been
Speaker 2: filed against Jay Z accusing him of raping a thirteen
Speaker 2: year old girl. He of course denies the charges, but
Speaker 2: we will tell you what we know about that as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is linked to the Ditty allegations. So we
Speaker 2: actually had heard some of this from this you know
Speaker 2: at the time girl now woman, But jay Z hadn't
Speaker 2: been named. So now the new edition is that he
Speaker 2: has been named.
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Speaker 2: what is going on in Syria?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? What is not going on in Syria?
Speaker 3: We're going to start off with some video, so let's
Speaker 3: go ahead and play some of this for the audience.
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk over it while.
Speaker 3: It is just stunning scenes with the fall of Damascus
Speaker 3: to these quote unquote rebels. We'll tell you about those
Speaker 3: rebels in a little bit, but you can literally see,
Speaker 3: you know, scenes reminiscent of the fall of Baghdad, the
Speaker 3: destruction of Asad statues, both Bashar Assad and his own
Speaker 3: father who ruled the country from some fifty odd years.
Speaker 3: The most shocking scenes really are some of these that
Speaker 3: have been coming out of the secret and historic prison
Speaker 3: that was in Damascus that housed a lot of these
Speaker 3: political prisoners, you know, small children, lots of women, men
Speaker 3: who have been locked in these cells for what.
Speaker 1: Some odd years now.
Speaker 3: I saw some reports some of them literally didn't even
Speaker 3: know what a smartphone was, Crystal.
Speaker 1: That's how long I'm locked up? Wow? I me yeah.
Speaker 3: If you think it's the civil war has been going
Speaker 3: on since twenty twelve, maybe even with the brutal regime.
Speaker 3: You know a lot of these people who have been
Speaker 3: housing there for a long time. Some eyes also open
Speaker 3: for Austin Tice, the American citizen. The US government does
Speaker 3: believe he is alive, and he was being held by
Speaker 3: the Ouside regimes. We're hoping that he's returned sometimes soon.
Speaker 3: This is apparently is a bunch of rebels trying to
Speaker 3: figure out how to operate a helicopter. But here we
Speaker 3: have Al Jilani, the leader of HTS, the new presumptive
Speaker 3: leader I guess of Damascus, out of Syria, giving a
Speaker 3: speech of talking about quote, there's no house in Syria.
Speaker 3: The wars knocked down on Praise be to God. Today
Speaker 3: you are recovering God willing, Thank God, mister Jolani literally
Speaker 3: a wanted terrorist, you know, by the United States government,
Speaker 3: and that at one point we're offering a ten million
Speaker 3: dollar reward for his capture. His own history is a
Speaker 3: little bit shocking, and really, you know, from step by
Speaker 3: step is just failure of US policy after failure of
Speaker 3: a policy. This is a man who is radicalized by
Speaker 3: the Second Intafada, becomes a committed Jihatist, goes to fight
Speaker 3: in Iraq. He is held in the infamous kind of
Speaker 3: basically jihadi university prison by United States forces in two
Speaker 3: thousand and three. In two thousand and four, he's released.
Speaker 3: He joins Zarkawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq. There's eventually some
Speaker 3: drama and he splits off and goes to Syria. And
Speaker 3: he's been one of the most committed leaders of the
Speaker 3: al Qaeda offshoot in Syria.
Speaker 1: Now, you know, the defenders.
Speaker 3: Quote unquote will say, oh, well, he's distanced himself from
Speaker 3: al Qaeda. He's actually purged some of the elements of that.
Speaker 3: We'll see it really does remain. But I mean the
Speaker 3: truth is is, if you look at this man's history,
Speaker 3: he has been a committed jihadist who's been fighting either
Speaker 3: US forces, the West or frankly even some of the
Speaker 3: religious minorities inside of Syria now.
Speaker 1: For over a decade.
Speaker 3: So, yes, this is the final conclusion, it seems, of
Speaker 3: the Syrian Civil War, some fourteen years brutal civil war.
Speaker 3: One hundreds of thousands are dead. But there is no
Speaker 3: indication that this is it, right. I mean, there are
Speaker 3: still so many different religious minorities in Syria.
Speaker 1: You have the Kurdish faction in the SDF.
Speaker 3: You have ten percent of the country which is Christian,
Speaker 3: you have the Druze population as well, damaskets itself where Look,
Speaker 3: you could say a lot of things about Asad, but
Speaker 3: it actually was genuinely kind of diverse, quote unquote, a
Speaker 3: lot of those people did support the Asad regime.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows now, you know, what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: It's some indications in Aleppo that they haven't cracked down
Speaker 3: on religious minorities yet. You know, we don't know, but
Speaker 3: you know, there's going to be no cheering today on
Speaker 3: this show because they they're and I am a little
Speaker 3: heartened by this. At the very least, there is a
Speaker 3: heavy amount of realism I have seen, at least in
Speaker 3: some analysis, even at the mainstream level Crystal people are like, did.
Speaker 1: We is this a good thing?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: Did we win?
Speaker 3: Is this a celebration of US policy? And don't you know,
Speaker 3: don't brainwash yourself. Yes, this war, a lot of it
Speaker 3: was fought by Syrians, a lot of it was fought
Speaker 3: by foreigners, a lot of it was funded by foreign dollars,
Speaker 3: including our foreign dollars. And President Biden's statement which we'll
Speaker 3: get to in a little bit is a full on celebration.
Speaker 3: But I am at least heartened by you know, the
Speaker 3: incoming vice president elect and a few others being like,
Speaker 3: are we sure that this is a good thing? You know,
Speaker 3: this this this may actually end up being like the
Speaker 3: fall of Gaddafi and unleashing hell for this country for
Speaker 3: another fourteen years.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how you could live through Iraq, Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: Libya and just feel like, yay, yay, they're not gonna
Speaker 2: go great agi or exactly living through all of the
Speaker 2: Arab spring. And so I think anyone who was sentient,
Speaker 2: who you know, observed those you know, moments of optimism
Speaker 2: turn into horror.
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone.
Speaker 2: Could watch that and just feel really super confident, especially
Speaker 2: given what we know about this faction, Rubbel faction that
Speaker 2: you know, is an offshoot of al Qaeda. And yeah,
Speaker 2: he's saying the right things about you know, commitment to
Speaker 2: religious and ethnic diversity within Syria, but this is a
Speaker 2: committed jihadis a commitment committed Islamist. So we shall see
Speaker 2: not to mention you already see, and we'll get into
Speaker 2: this with with Jeremy as well. You already see Israel
Speaker 2: making moves to annex territory and take advantage of the situation.
Speaker 2: Obviously there's going to be a vacuum. Obviously this is
Speaker 2: going to be a very weak government. This really came
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. I mean, I don't think this was
Speaker 2: really on anyone's radar until these rebels were able to
Speaker 2: so quickly take over Aleppo. The Syrian forces scattered, there
Speaker 2: was a realization the the you know, foreign government governments,
Speaker 2: whether it was Iran or Russia that had been backing
Speaker 2: this sad regime were no longer there to you know,
Speaker 2: to keep them in place, and very very very quickly
Speaker 2: things collapsed, and like that you have a new government
Speaker 2: in Syria. So with all of that setting of the table,
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and get to our guest, Jeremy Scahill,
Speaker 2: of course, co founder of drop site News, alongside our
Speaker 2: own Ryan Grimm, who is you know, a fantastic observer
Speaker 2: of this entire region and has a good bird's eye view.
Speaker 4: Of how all of these pieces fit together. So let's
Speaker 4: get to that.
Speaker 3: Joining us now is Jeremy Scahill is the co founder
Speaker 3: of drop site News and a great journalists.
Speaker 1: Good to see sir, thank.
Speaker 6: You, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so, Jeremy.
Speaker 3: We want to get your reaction to assume these rapid
Speaker 3: developments in Syria, but also in respect to what's happening
Speaker 3: with Israel and his current expansion of territory. First, let's
Speaker 3: get your reaction to this SoundBite put out by bab
Speaker 3: Net and Yahoo.
Speaker 1: In reaction, let's take a lesson.
Speaker 7: This is a historic day for the Middle East. The
Speaker 7: collapse of the Acid regime, the tyranny in Damascus, offers
Speaker 7: great opportunity, but also is fraught with significant dangers. This
Speaker 7: collapse is a direct result of our forceful action against
Speaker 7: Kibaala and Iran Asad's main supporters. It's set off a
Speaker 7: chain reaction of all those who want to free themselves
Speaker 7: from this tyranny and its suppression. But it also means
Speaker 7: we have to take action against possible threats. One of
Speaker 7: them is the collapse of the separation of forces agreement
Speaker 7: from nineteen seventy four between Israel and Syria. This agreement
Speaker 7: held for fifty years. Last night it collapsed. The Syrian
Speaker 7: army abandoned its positions. We gave the Israeli army the
Speaker 7: order to take over this positions to ensure that no
Speaker 7: hostile force embeds itself right next to the border of Israel.
Speaker 7: This is a temporary defensive position until a suitable arrangement
Speaker 7: is found. Equally, we send a hand of peace to
Speaker 7: all those beyond our border in Syria, to the Jews,
Speaker 7: to the Kurds, to the Christians, and to the Muslims
Speaker 7: who want to live in peace with Israel. We're going
Speaker 7: to follow events very carefully. If we can establish neighborly
Speaker 7: relations and a peaceful relations with the new forces emerging
Speaker 7: in Syria, that's our desire. But if we do not,
Speaker 7: we'll do whatever it takes to defend the state of
Speaker 7: Israel and the border of Israel.
Speaker 1: Jeremy your reaction to that.
Speaker 8: Let's remember that not long before October seventh, Netanyahu gave
Speaker 8: a speech at the United Nations in which he brandished
Speaker 8: a mapp of the Middle East that showed a total
Speaker 8: erasure of Palestine in any form whatsoever, and portrayed it
Speaker 8: as a greater Israel that was going to be the
Speaker 8: conduit that would connect the south and north of the
Speaker 8: world in the Eastern Hemisphere with sort of a great
Speaker 8: new Silk Road that would be heralded in by Israel,
Speaker 8: and Netnyaho has made very clear that he supports a
Speaker 8: dramatic expansion of the state of Israel. And so, you know,
Speaker 8: while he may be exaggerating Israel's role or the role
Speaker 8: that it played in the events in Syria, certainly Israel's
Speaker 8: actions in the Middle East did play a role, and
Speaker 8: Netnyaho now is trying to seize the moment to literally
Speaker 8: invade kilometers into Syria. Israel does not have a track
Speaker 8: record of seizing territory and then saying, oh, well, actually
Speaker 8: we were just doing this for our security.
Speaker 6: We're going to back out of it.
Speaker 8: I mean, look no further than the non ceasefire that
Speaker 8: the Biden administration broker in Lebanon, where Israel has repeatedly
Speaker 8: been violating. It still has its forces occupying. But there
Speaker 8: certainly is a discussion to be had about how the
Speaker 8: impact in Gaza and Lebanon and the broader war that
Speaker 8: Metnyahu is waging in the Middle East impacted events on
Speaker 8: the ground in Syria. But this is a multi dimensional
Speaker 8: conflict in Syria with a lot of foreign actors involved
Speaker 8: with it, as you alluded to earlier. So I think
Speaker 8: that on the one hand, we can examine Israel's role.
Speaker 8: On the other hand, we have to talk about the
Speaker 8: United States, Turkey, Gulf countries, Russia has belat Iran, and
Speaker 8: then the Syrian forces themselves on the ground.
Speaker 4: Let's talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2: Eric, if you could put a four up on the screen,
Speaker 2: this tear sheet from the Wall Street Journal that lays
Speaker 2: out some of those dynamics that you're discussing. The headline
Speaker 2: here as Asad's downfall marks a new realignment in the
Speaker 2: Middle East. You had Turkey backing the rebels, you had
Speaker 2: Russia previously backing Asad. Asad has now fled reportedly to Moscow.
Speaker 2: You know, questions about what various countries and factions in
Speaker 2: the region stand to benefit from these developments. I mean,
Speaker 2: what is your reaction overall to what has been a
Speaker 2: stunning chain of events and you know, total collapse of
Speaker 2: government in just a few days.
Speaker 8: I think that there's several ways that we have to
Speaker 8: look at this, and we shouldn't strip Syrians themselves of
Speaker 8: their agency in this or their moment to sort of
Speaker 8: express relief at someone that many Syrians viewed as a butcher,
Speaker 8: a war criminal, their torturer, their main violator of human rights.
Speaker 8: You know, Crystal, I was in Iraq when Saddam Hussein
Speaker 8: emptied the Abu Grab prison shortly before the United States
Speaker 8: invaded Iraq, and there were people coming out of that
Speaker 8: Abu Grab prison who had been there for decades, and
Speaker 8: we saw some of the facilities that were used to
Speaker 8: torture people in Saddam's prison. And as I've seen some
Speaker 8: of the footage coming out of prisoners being released from
Speaker 8: Asad's per in Syria, it brought back memories for me
Speaker 8: of that. And I think, you know, if you're talking
Speaker 8: about people that are political prisoners, that have spent decades
Speaker 8: in a dungeon and have been tortured under heinous circumstances,
Speaker 8: everyone should be glad to see prisoners being liberated. So
Speaker 8: on the one hand, I fully understand why many Syrians
Speaker 8: are celebrating this day. On the other hand, the forces
Speaker 8: that are now taking control HTS and others have a
Speaker 8: track record of their own brutality, of their own killing
Speaker 8: of ethnic and religious minorities, of running their own torture
Speaker 8: prison operations, and the United States for many years, has
Speaker 8: had its hand in the dirty war in Syria.
Speaker 6: I mean at one point, the United.
Speaker 8: States was spending a billion dollars in CIA operations alone,
Speaker 8: training so called rebel forces. You have many nations that
Speaker 8: have had a role to play in this really dirty situation.
Speaker 8: And then on the Russia and Iran side, you know, well,
Speaker 8: Bashar Asad was a member of the so called Axis
Speaker 8: of Resistance, the Nation States and non state actors that
Speaker 8: had a common pledge to confront Israel in the region. Largely,
Speaker 8: what Asad's support for that axis consisted of was allowing
Speaker 8: passage through Syria of weapons, logistics personnel going into Lebanon
Speaker 8: and to resupply hesblah and others. But there's also a
Speaker 8: whole other part of this story, which is that at
Speaker 8: times both Israel and the United States worked with Bashar
Speaker 8: al Assad. One story that I know you guys are
Speaker 8: familiar with was that in two thousand and two, a
Speaker 8: Canadian Syrian named Mahar Rar was kidnapped at JFK Airport
Speaker 8: by the CIA and he was sent to Syria where
Speaker 8: he was tortured in those very prisons that were seeing
Speaker 8: footage of by the Asad regime's forces. Asad was on
Speaker 8: the verge of making some sort of a deal prior
Speaker 8: to the twenty eleven protests out and we haven't seen
Speaker 8: Syria launching air attacks at Israel over the past year.
Speaker 8: You know, Hesbola was doing that, Iran was doing that,
Speaker 8: even the Huthi's of Yemen were doing that. But Asad
Speaker 8: has sort of played all sides of the fence. But really,
Speaker 8: in the days leading up to HTS seizing Aleppo, Holmes,
Speaker 8: Hama and ultimately Damascus, net Yaho was starting to directly
Speaker 8: threaten Asad and say that if he didn't stop efforts
Speaker 8: to resupply Hesbilad during this so called ceasefire, that he
Speaker 8: would directly pay a price for it. Israel has been
Speaker 8: bombing the past couple of days targets around Syria. They
Speaker 8: claim that they're trying to degrade chemical weapons air defense systems,
Speaker 8: but Israel is certainly exploiting this opportunity to try to
Speaker 8: go in and preemptively strike all around Syria. No one
Speaker 8: should pretend that this is about self defense. No one
Speaker 8: should pretend that this is about humanitarian motives. Net Yahoo
Speaker 8: and the Israeli state have a very extreme agenda to
Speaker 8: seize Ara Bland, and I think that's a large part
Speaker 8: of what we're seeing right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Jeremy, we also have President Biden openly celebrating this.
Speaker 3: We have a three Please let's play that and we'll
Speaker 3: get his reaction.
Speaker 9: Well, happened in the least after thirteen years a civil
Speaker 9: war in Syria more than half a century, brutal Afar
Speaker 9: turned rule by a sure a SOD has fathered before him.
Speaker 9: Rebel force is a forced Assad to resign his office
Speaker 9: and flee the country. We're not sure he is, but
Speaker 9: the word that he's in Moscow at long last the
Speaker 9: SOD regime has fallen.
Speaker 3: So you can see that he's at long last it's fallen.
Speaker 3: He's celebrated it. So the United States will continue to participate.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is not a good look if we
Speaker 3: are to literally talking about an al Qaeda takeover of
Speaker 3: the country. So in context of the nets On Yahu
Speaker 3: statement and how here the United States president, what is
Speaker 3: the policy here that will shape what comes after?
Speaker 1: Now that Asada is out, Well, you.
Speaker 8: Can go back and find video of Joe Biden when
Speaker 8: he was Vice president really directly stating what many people
Speaker 8: are talking about right now, which is that you have
Speaker 8: Abu Muhammad al Jolani remains a wanted terrorist in the
Speaker 8: language of the United States, with a ten million dollar
Speaker 8: bounty on his head. Secretary of State Blincoln has not,
Speaker 8: to my knowledge, removed HTS from the list of foreign
Speaker 8: designated terrorist organizations. Jake Sullivan, the current National Security Advisor,
Speaker 8: we know from wikileage's cables, actually at one point acknowledged
Speaker 8: that al Qaeda was on the same side as the
Speaker 8: United States in Syria. All of this is very relevant
Speaker 8: and no one should be derided for raising what our factual,
Speaker 8: factual rendering of events and the history leading up to this.
Speaker 8: We're going to see now is an aggressive rebranding effort.
Speaker 8: This has been going on for a couple of years
Speaker 8: with HTS and Jolani, but I think you're going to
Speaker 8: see an intensification of this. Britain already is debating whether
Speaker 8: or not to remove them from their terror designation. The
Speaker 8: United Nations also has designated HTS as a terror organization.
Speaker 8: So you know, on the one hand, the United States
Speaker 8: is opportunistic. It's looking to try to ensure that it
Speaker 8: has its own resources protected. The United States is tremendously
Speaker 8: happy that Russia has had to withdraw from its naval
Speaker 8: and air base in Syria. The United States since going
Speaker 8: back to the nineteen fifties, wanted to prevent Russia from
Speaker 8: having any kind of a.
Speaker 6: Foothold in the Middle East.
Speaker 8: So, you know, while I think that we should focus
Speaker 8: on Syrians and their views of this, the geopolitical realities
Speaker 8: of this go back many decades. It's Cold War politics,
Speaker 8: it's the US wanting Russia out of it, It's the
Speaker 8: move toward trying.
Speaker 6: To do regime change in Iran.
Speaker 8: I think the Iranians are looking at this and saying
Speaker 8: we should accelerate our attempt to get a nuclear weapon
Speaker 8: because they're watching the dominoes fall in the Middle East
Speaker 8: right now. And you have a kind of a perfect
Speaker 8: storm that has been created by the Biden administration's policy,
Speaker 8: where now Donald Trump takes power, he's sending a total
Speaker 8: lunatic Mike Huckabee as the ambassador to Israel. You could
Speaker 8: have an attempt to actually destroy the al Akxamasque. You
Speaker 8: could have an attempt to do actual overt regime change
Speaker 8: in Iran and Syria falling I think has caused great
Speaker 8: nervousness in other Arab capitals, where despotic regimes are fearful
Speaker 8: that this will be contagious.
Speaker 2: Talk a little bit more about the incoming Trump administration.
Speaker 2: What can we glean from his last time in office
Speaker 2: viz a VI his approached them, no least generally, but
Speaker 2: specifically towards Syria.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I mean, Trump put out a statement
Speaker 8: the other day that was a kind of you know,
Speaker 8: it was a mess. It had something for everyone to
Speaker 8: read into it. And you know, Trump is kind of
Speaker 8: a master at leaving the door open to interpretation. When
Speaker 8: it comes to Israel, he has openly pledged that he's
Speaker 8: going to give net and Yahu carte blanche. If you
Speaker 8: look on paper, it would seem that very ominous days
Speaker 8: are ahead for the region. But also when Trump was
Speaker 8: in power the first time, some of the bluster and
Speaker 8: rhetoric that he unloaded on the campaign trail, when he
Speaker 8: then became the commander in chief, there were moments when
Speaker 8: he was a president that embraced notions of restraint. We
Speaker 8: know that there were big battles between some of Trump's
Speaker 8: people and Trump himself and some of the neo cons
Speaker 8: like John Bolton, And then at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: I think ego plays a role in this. Does Donald
Speaker 8: Trump want to have when he enters office. Fires raging
Speaker 8: across the Middle East. Iran certainly put out indicators that
Speaker 8: they wanted to negotiate with Trump. It does seem like
Speaker 8: there may be some deal between Hamas and Israel that
Speaker 8: probably wouldn't have happened if Biden had another year in
Speaker 8: office and it wasn't Trump. So, you know, while I'm
Speaker 8: while I'm inclined to say that, I think, you know,
Speaker 8: Trump is an ultra militaristic guy. In some ways, he
Speaker 8: does have instincts that veer off the path of American Empire.
Speaker 8: And I think that if there's going to be any
Speaker 8: chance of the fires getting put out, it would be
Speaker 8: because of the quirky, strange nature of Donald Trump's approach
Speaker 8: to foreign policy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's really well said, Jeremy. As we
Speaker 3: continue to watch all this, we're going to be relying
Speaker 3: heavily on drop side. So thank you so much for
Speaker 3: joining us man.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you.
Speaker 6: Thank you, guys.
Speaker 2: So, meanwhile, the manhunt continues for the killer of that
Speaker 2: CEO of United Healthcare. Harry enton Over at CNN broke
Speaker 2: down some of the reasons why he has apparently been
Speaker 2: so difficult to find. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 10: The number one thing that should stand out at Central
Speaker 10: Park is it's just freaking huge. I mean, that's the
Speaker 10: number one thing that should stand out. It makes up
Speaker 10: six percent of Manhattan. There are eight lakes and ponds,
Speaker 10: so you could potentially drop that backpack anywhere. There are
Speaker 10: seven hundred or more garbage cans as of twenty twenty one. Again,
Speaker 10: a lot of places that you might have to search
Speaker 10: in Central Park if you're trying to find somebody or
Speaker 10: find a backpack. But more than that, it's really easy
Speaker 10: to blend in in Central Park and escape there without
Speaker 10: people noticing. Why is that because get this, there are
Speaker 10: about fifty exits and entrances from Central Park, and more
Speaker 10: than that, there are about forty thousand winter weekday visitors.
Speaker 10: So you can get out of the park really easily,
Speaker 10: and you can really blend into the park quite easily.
Speaker 10: Erica Harry, please see the suspect also may have gotten
Speaker 10: out of the city by using the George Washington bus terminal. Yeah,
Speaker 10: so I have been to that bus terminal. It's actually
Speaker 10: fairly close to where I grew up. And what you
Speaker 10: should know about it, it's really busy on your average
Speaker 10: weekday they are about nine hundred plus buses that come
Speaker 10: in and out of the terminal daily. There are about
Speaker 10: ten thousand plus passengers who come either in or out
Speaker 10: of the terminal daily, and more than that, there are
Speaker 10: a ton of potential destinations from the George Washington Bus terminal.
Speaker 10: Look at this map right here. You can go all
Speaker 10: the way up. Look at this, go all the way
Speaker 10: up to Boston. You can go all the way down
Speaker 10: to Philadelphia, or you can go all away to western
Speaker 10: New York.
Speaker 2: So what we know basically at this point is so
Speaker 2: we've all, you know, seen the footage, the security footage
Speaker 2: of the actual killing, and he hops on a bike,
Speaker 2: goes into Central Park, emerges somewhere upper West Side, hops
Speaker 2: in a cab. We actually have an image of him
Speaker 2: in the cab that just came out, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: a bunch of these pictures that they're saying, are you know,
Speaker 2: person Adventure is basically alleging as a suspect. They really
Speaker 2: do look like different people, but it's hard to tell
Speaker 2: because a lot of them are mask You can see
Speaker 2: him here.
Speaker 1: So with his quality of the camera is not very high, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with his mask. So this is the latest photo
Speaker 2: that has emerged. So anyway, gets in, this cab goes
Speaker 2: to the George Washington Bridge bus terminal. I mean, I
Speaker 2: haven't been to that particular bus terminal, but I've been
Speaker 2: to plenty of I've been to the main New York
Speaker 2: City bus terminal. And the number of buses coming in
Speaker 2: and out of these things, the number of people, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just, you know, it's constant. So he goes in,
Speaker 2: he doesn't come out. So the presumption is, of course,
Speaker 2: that he took a bus somewhere to make his getaway,
Speaker 2: and they've only just recently found he apparently ditched his
Speaker 2: backpack in Central Park near the Merry Go Round. There's
Speaker 2: an image of that backpack, and based on what we know,
Speaker 2: it was apparently stuffed with his jacket and monopoly money.
Speaker 4: So it seems like he fully intended.
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy is the joker.
Speaker 3: It's not about it's about strangling a message. Yeah, he
Speaker 3: sees the joker.
Speaker 2: He intended them to find this backpack, and yet, by
Speaker 2: the way, still took the cops three days to find
Speaker 2: it in Central Park, knowing that it was likely somewhere
Speaker 2: in there. So I mean, that's effectively where we are
Speaker 2: right now. Eric Adams, mayor of New York City, is
Speaker 2: claiming that they have a name. We could put this
Speaker 2: up on the screen. This was at some holiday party.
Speaker 2: I believe he made these comments.
Speaker 4: He says. The net is tightening on.
Speaker 2: The CEO's suspected killer. He says, they have a name,
Speaker 2: but we don't want to release that now. If we do,
Speaker 2: we're basically giving a tip to the person worseeeki. We
Speaker 2: don't want to give him an upper hand at all.
Speaker 2: Let him continue to believe he can hide behind the masks.
Speaker 2: We revealed his face, We're going to reveal who he is,
Speaker 2: and we're going to bring him to justice personally. And
Speaker 2: I don't really believe him.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a strategic reason not to reveal the name,
Speaker 2: or maybe you don't want to get in legal trouble
Speaker 2: by implicating someone who you're not one hundred percent sure
Speaker 2: that it is. But if you're out there saying we
Speaker 2: know your name, then now the guy knows that you
Speaker 2: know his name.
Speaker 4: But I don't know. I'm a little skeptical.
Speaker 2: It seems like the more time goes on, like the
Speaker 2: trail has as best as the public knows effectively gone cold.
Speaker 2: And it is kind of wild given this was you know,
Speaker 2: early morning hours, but there were plenty of people out
Speaker 2: in New York City. It was in the most densely
Speaker 2: packed tourist area of New York City. Number of surveillance
Speaker 2: cameras all around are crazy. They even have drone surveillance
Speaker 2: now in New York City. And this guy was just
Speaker 2: able to effectively vanish without a trace and was able
Speaker 2: to be in the city for some ten days, but
Speaker 2: very careful about keeping his face hidden and keeping away
Speaker 2: from cameras, etc. So, based on what the public knows,
Speaker 2: seems like very very little that they are going on.
Speaker 2: New York City has twenty five thousand cameras at traffic
Speaker 2: intersections alone, and that drune surveillance initiative which began over Central.
Speaker 3: Park and one billion dollars a year spent on a
Speaker 3: lot of this not to I mean, look, this is
Speaker 3: a good view, by the way, into how much all
Speaker 3: of us are surveiled all the time. And the justification
Speaker 3: for it is that, oh, it's so easy to stop
Speaker 3: terrorists and it's easy to catch killers. Well, it's been
Speaker 3: more than seventy two hours this man has been on
Speaker 3: the run. I mean, presumably even with the FEDS involved
Speaker 3: in all that, we still don't have him being apprehended.
Speaker 3: His name has not been released or even leaked. That
Speaker 3: is one reason why I'm really skeptical. The NYPD is massive,
Speaker 3: and you know, it leaks like a sieve. And I've
Speaker 3: covered these terrorism cases and others for a long time.
Speaker 3: When they have a name Tom Winters at NBC or whatever,
Speaker 3: it'll have it in like two seconds.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But even if they don't want to officially put it, Yeah, even.
Speaker 3: When they don't want to put it out, it ends
Speaker 3: up leaking. This happens every time.
Speaker 2: Well then, and there's also no indication that they've alert
Speaker 2: Like if you had a name, wouldn't you alert all
Speaker 2: the airport and at the border, et cetera, so that
Speaker 2: if that person shows up with their passport you know
Speaker 2: what to do.
Speaker 4: But there's no indication that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that actually raises even crazier questions,
Speaker 3: is like was he able to get out of the country?
Speaker 3: You know, was he able to I think it's very
Speaker 3: possible states. I mean, you know, you could take a
Speaker 3: bus pretty easy to upstate New York. Canada is not
Speaker 3: that far away, so there's there's a lot of indications,
Speaker 3: and then from there, you know, who knows you can
Speaker 3: get a blight to anywhere you can go to switch.
Speaker 4: Do hanging out with the sun and Moscow right now, at.
Speaker 1: Moscow, I think that's where I would head. I would
Speaker 1: head to Moscow.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean when you when you read all
Speaker 3: of this, it is both terrifying in terms of how
Speaker 3: much we are surveilled, and then it also opens the
Speaker 3: door of like, well, what's the point of all this surveillance.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, maybe it's me.
Speaker 3: I think it's creepy that when you're in a cab
Speaker 3: you're on camera, you know, I mean I get it,
Speaker 3: you know, crime and people getting robbed and all of that,
Speaker 3: but it's weird. It's like every time you get into
Speaker 3: an uber, it's like you don't even think about it
Speaker 3: and you're just your face is being broadcast.
Speaker 1: Who knows what this person is going to do to it.
Speaker 3: You're in hostile if somebody videoing there, you're on the street,
Speaker 3: you know, you can track your you know your location everywhere.
Speaker 1: This is an interesting I saw a funny analysis.
Speaker 3: It just goes to show you that we're lucky that
Speaker 3: we live in a country where it's mostly like low
Speaker 3: IQ people who can make crime, because it turns out
Speaker 3: like if you if you want to get away with it,
Speaker 3: I mean, to a certain extent.
Speaker 1: You kind of can.
Speaker 3: I personally thought, I said, there's no way this guy's
Speaker 3: not in cups, just because I had maybe too much
Speaker 3: faith in the surveillance state. I'm like, yo, in this country.
Speaker 3: You know he had that one photo with his face down, Yeah,
Speaker 3: allegedly whatever.
Speaker 1: I think it's him, you do, Yeah, I mean, you
Speaker 1: know why else would you release it?
Speaker 2: Like it looks so different. He looks so different in
Speaker 2: the different photos that they really.
Speaker 1: That's what I mean.
Speaker 3: Look, maybe's marrying different he was there for ten days
Speaker 3: and marring different outfits.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: The point is is, like I thought, you know who who.
Speaker 3: If you've flown recently, actually, in some airports, you don't
Speaker 3: even have a choice. They just you know, they take
Speaker 3: a photo of your face and it's facial recognition. You
Speaker 3: don't even give him your ID anymore. You just stand
Speaker 3: in front of the camera and it's like boom. I've
Speaker 3: boarded flights, particularly international flights, the couple of years.
Speaker 1: You don't have a boarding pass.
Speaker 3: You literally just go and they hit your face with
Speaker 3: facial recognition, and they're like, oh, Zager and Jedty, you know,
Speaker 3: twenty six e or something like that. So I'm in
Speaker 3: my head, I'm like, okay, well you just take that
Speaker 3: and you do facial recognition, you hit it across all
Speaker 3: of the different driver's license photos just in the United
Speaker 3: States or criminal database whatever. And I thought you'd be
Speaker 3: apprehended the name, you know. I thought i'd be out
Speaker 3: there within twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I.
Speaker 3: Guess maybe you know, either they do have that and
Speaker 3: they're not telling us, or you know, even that photo
Speaker 3: is not enough. You would assume too, that you would
Speaker 3: leave fingerprints somewhere in a hostel or wherever you are
Speaker 3: for ten days on a backpack, DNA, et cetera. But
Speaker 3: I guess all of that will take some time. I mean,
Speaker 3: I still remain like pretty, I still remain like pretty
Speaker 3: skeptical that you're genuinely going to do walk free like
Speaker 3: a member of the Weather Underground or something. I don't
Speaker 3: not get apprehended for thirty years. I mean, remember, they
Speaker 3: did get caught, you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: all of them did get caught. It took a while,
Speaker 3: but I guess it could happen, you know, could happen.
Speaker 2: The other thing is that, you know, the police really
Speaker 2: rely to a significant extent on public cooperation, and you
Speaker 2: know there has been some but like the hostel that
Speaker 2: that he stayed at that you know, provided security camera
Speaker 2: footage and like whatever, a lot of people are pissed
Speaker 2: off of them for I mean, I think, what are
Speaker 2: they gonna do like that?
Speaker 1: You know you're gonna get a subpoena.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, and there's all these communities on
Speaker 2: TikTok that are organized around, like you know, helping to
Speaker 2: sleuth out different crimes and like looking and trying to
Speaker 2: find the clues and whatever, and they're like, no, we're
Speaker 2: not helping with this one. So I'm sure that tip
Speaker 2: hotline they put out has been flooded with all kinds
Speaker 2: of nonsense, and you know which, if it's credible nonsense,
Speaker 2: you still got to track it down, you still got
Speaker 2: to chase it.
Speaker 4: And so that.
Speaker 2: Also makes it more difficult is to sort even if
Speaker 2: they got a legitimate tip that actually could help them,
Speaker 2: if it's also being flooded with you know a lot
Speaker 2: of people who are not interested in helping or interested
Speaker 2: in thwarting that can also make it much much more difficult.
Speaker 2: At the same time, obviously, the cultural reaction has really continued.
Speaker 2: It has been pretty astonishing how widespread the reaction to
Speaker 2: this killing was. Bill bur comedian Bill Burr Took had
Speaker 2: had his own commentary describing the CEO as effectively a gangster.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to some of his take.
Speaker 6: Oh, what's going on in New York?
Speaker 11: We were just talking about that ceo got fucking whacked.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude, you know what's funny.
Speaker 6: I was gonna read an art. Cool guy. They like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, he's such a great guy.
Speaker 11: You had a you know, wife and kids, and he's
Speaker 11: such a great guy. And then you find out he
Speaker 11: and the other guys he's working for are getting sued
Speaker 11: for one hundred and twenty one million dollars for dumping
Speaker 11: a stock and not letting the other people know. It's like,
Speaker 11: there's your motives. Nancy Pelosi just made nine million bucks
Speaker 11: on some shit. The gangsters, dude, fucking gangsters. And then
Speaker 11: one of them gets whacked or something.
Speaker 6: They're like, oh, it look good. It was such a
Speaker 6: good guy.
Speaker 11: It's a dirty game pull healthcare, healthcare dirty game.
Speaker 4: It is a dirty game. Hikes very true. This was
Speaker 4: interesting too.
Speaker 2: So there's been a corporate reaction also, a bunch of
Speaker 2: healthcare companies and other Fortune five hundred companies have been
Speaker 2: taking down their executive bio pages on a fear that
Speaker 2: their executives could be targeted. There's been a major upsurgeon
Speaker 2: interest in executive protection. I'm sure that business is thriving
Speaker 2: today and this was interesting. So in the wake of
Speaker 2: the killing of the CEO, people started sharing around the
Speaker 2: fact that Anthem Healthcare was planning this change. We could
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen, this tear sheet. They've
Speaker 2: been planning this change where they're going to put a
Speaker 2: time limit on anesthesia and for most patients, if the
Speaker 2: anesthesiologists went over the time limit, if your surgery so
Speaker 2: you're knocked out, you have nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: If your surgery goes over how long they think it
Speaker 2: should take, then they were going to mass deny those claims. So,
Speaker 2: in the wake of this killing and more attention on
Speaker 2: the depravity of the United It State's healthcare system, this
Speaker 2: decision was something that people really picked up on and
Speaker 2: Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield said Okay, never mind, we
Speaker 2: are not going to do this anymore. This plan was
Speaker 2: supposed to go into effect in several states.
Speaker 4: It wasn't a.
Speaker 2: Nationwide change, it was just in a number of states.
Speaker 2: And they've said, oh, well, there was disinformation spread about
Speaker 2: what we were planning. So because of this disinformation, we're
Speaker 2: going to back off of this particular change. But listen,
Speaker 2: this is what health insurers do. The more care they deny,
Speaker 2: the more money they make. So they seek all kinds
Speaker 2: of ways to limit what they're going to you know
Speaker 2: what claims they're going to accept, what they're going to
Speaker 2: pay out, because the more that they do that, the
Speaker 2: more that their profit margining creases.
Speaker 4: That's just the fundamental dynamic.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to white nighte for the healthcare company.
Speaker 3: But I also want people to understand that this is
Speaker 3: part of why the American healthcare system is so crappy,
Speaker 3: is because the anesthetl There is actually decent evidence of
Speaker 3: anesthesiologists being a It's a very.
Speaker 1: High paid field, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, their ability to control that and then also what
Speaker 3: the government then reimburses them for as well as the
Speaker 3: insurance companies, it helps right. Turns out at most antitheologists
Speaker 3: are making like three hundred grand a year. So the
Speaker 3: justification from the UH and I'm sure I'm gonna get
Speaker 3: a ton of hate from the anesthesiologists, sorry, folks, but
Speaker 3: the truth is is that you guys are wildly overpaid,
Speaker 3: not just antheologists, all doctors. It's basically a cartel, and
Speaker 3: so the American Medical Association has actively lobbied, you know,
Speaker 3: to restrict the number of doctors there to artificially push
Speaker 3: up the price. That works in conjunction with our insane
Speaker 3: you know, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Anthem, almost other reimbursement.
Speaker 3: So you basically have a ton of people. This is
Speaker 3: like a mob war between two cartels. When, as you said,
Speaker 3: the patient is what is supposed to matter. The guy
Speaker 3: under the knife or the woman who is literally asleep
Speaker 3: should not be subject to is this doctor possibly keeping
Speaker 3: me under long enough just so he can make more money,
Speaker 3: or is you know, it's it up to the insurance company.
Speaker 3: It should literally just be about all of the health.
Speaker 3: So again I'm not white nighting for the insurance company.
Speaker 3: That was the justification though, that they had seen that
Speaker 3: this was a systematic problem costing them money. But the whole,
Speaker 3: you know, the whole insanity of it is is that
Speaker 3: the same procedure in so many other different countries, there
Speaker 3: is no profit consideration in.
Speaker 1: The entire well the operation.
Speaker 2: You just do whatever you have to do or that
Speaker 2: is the core of the problem. And the issue of
Speaker 2: course with the approach they were taking is that it
Speaker 2: ends up being the patient once again who gets screwed,
Speaker 2: yeah you know, and who gets their claims denis now
Speaker 2: stuck while they were under them and I had no
Speaker 2: say over any of this. This is all happening while
Speaker 2: they're literally knocked down, and now you're stuck with a
Speaker 2: multi thousand dollars bill because your claim has been denied
Speaker 2: because the surgery took longer than they expected. But you
Speaker 2: are one hundred percent correct that the profit motive for
Speaker 2: all of these actors, whether it's the hospitals or the
Speaker 2: health insurers, or the pharmaceutical companies or any of these
Speaker 2: different sort of mafia like cartels within our healthcare system,
Speaker 2: that really is the root of the problem. I might
Speaker 2: do a monologue on The New York Times had a
Speaker 2: good piece about these methodone clinics, and I mean, it's
Speaker 2: the same thing it's another part of our healthcare system,
Speaker 2: and the same profit motives are applied there where you know,
Speaker 2: they're supposed to be given counseling, they're buying large not
Speaker 2: they're falsifying records, they're giving methodone to people who should
Speaker 2: not be eligible to get methodone, who don't have who
Speaker 2: may have a meth addiction or a non opioid addiction.
Speaker 2: But you know, this is really meant for people who
Speaker 2: are suffering with opioid addiction. But it's just like a
Speaker 2: microcosm of the way that these disgusting profit motives should
Speaker 2: not be at the core of our healthcare and it
Speaker 2: leads to patients getting gouge and people getting sick, and
Speaker 2: us having a disastrous life expectancy. I mean, this really
Speaker 2: is kind of the root of the problem. So in
Speaker 2: any case, the you know, thing that was significant here
Speaker 2: with this particular decision was just how quickly they backed
Speaker 2: off of it, given the climate, given the scrutiny right
Speaker 2: now of the health insurance into story, and how the
Speaker 2: how overwhelming the reaction was to the killing of the CEO. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: so United Health Group, the Brian Thompson.
Speaker 4: Who is the CEO who was murdered. He was in
Speaker 4: charge of the insurance portion.
Speaker 2: There's a broader United Health group whose CEO put on
Speaker 2: a series of videos for their internally. You could imagine
Speaker 2: if you're own employee of the health insurance company, like,
Speaker 2: what the hell is.
Speaker 4: Going on right now?
Speaker 2: So anyway, Ken Kleppenstein was leaked this video of the
Speaker 2: United CEO's reaction and his presentation to internally to employees
Speaker 2: where he's specifically here giving them some advice about how
Speaker 2: to handle media inquiries, and the TLDR is he's like,
Speaker 2: just avoid the media altogether.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to how that went.
Speaker 5: I'd like to give you a little bit of advice
Speaker 5: around the media. You've seen a lot of media interest
Speaker 5: in this situation, with a huge amount of misinformation and
Speaker 5: frankly offensive communication. My strong advice and request to everybody
Speaker 5: is just don't engage with the media. If you're approached,
Speaker 5: I would recommend not responding and if necessary, simply refer
Speaker 5: them to our own media organization. There's no value in
Speaker 5: engaging with the media, and as you've seen, people are
Speaker 5: writing things we simply don't recognize are aggressive, inappropriate, and disrespectful.
Speaker 5: We've created a management structure to navigate through the period
Speaker 5: that we're in, and that will focus on making sure
Speaker 5: that we continue to communicate within the organization, just.
Speaker 2: Like I am now, so you know, don't talk to
Speaker 2: the media, don't communicate with them, etc. Ken has gotten
Speaker 2: some leaks from employees at United Healthcare about how they're
Speaker 2: processing all of this as well, and obviously was leaked
Speaker 2: this particular communication. But you know, it must be pretty shocking, Sager,
Speaker 2: if you are, especially an executive at one of these companies,
Speaker 2: to really sit with this reaction, like, it must be
Speaker 2: really quite a shocking thing to be held.
Speaker 3: Well maybe, but also remember what his wife said. He's like, well,
Speaker 3: there were some threats over denied coverage. I mean, you
Speaker 3: and I don't see this, but you know, imagine being
Speaker 3: on their side, you probably get heartfelt emails and threats
Speaker 3: and stuff all the time. I mean, I know that
Speaker 3: I know peripheral people in the healthcare industry, nurses, doctors,
Speaker 3: et cetera. They rant about the insurance companies nonsolutely, But
Speaker 3: then imagine me and they kick up their complaints to
Speaker 3: their hospital administrators, who I'm assuming if they're not you know,
Speaker 3: in collaboration, we say sometimes are kicking some of that
Speaker 3: up to the insurance companies.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, if anything.
Speaker 3: Again, like I just explained with the doctors, this thing
Speaker 3: is so screwed up that it's like so it's so
Speaker 3: multi faceted. It's the insurance companies, it's the PBMs, it's
Speaker 3: the drug companies, it's the doctors, it's the hospitals. And
Speaker 3: you know, everyone wants to believe their sweet old doctor
Speaker 3: is in their camp, and they probably are, but remember
Speaker 3: they work for somebody too. You know, a lot of
Speaker 3: these hospital companies, we covered a lot of this. Remember
Speaker 3: during COVID, a lot of them are going bankrupt. Well
Speaker 3: guess what happened. They all got rolled up into private
Speaker 3: equity and now all those people work for a single conglomerate.
Speaker 2: Apparently Stiller's been tracking a budget. The anesthesiologists go back
Speaker 2: to that have been part of these pe private equity
Speaker 2: roll ups as well, which means you know, and those
Speaker 2: are you know, this is permanent capital is huge interest
Speaker 2: in just gouging get everything they possibly can out of
Speaker 2: these financial arrangements. And you know, it shouldn't be a
Speaker 2: financial arrangement like other people in different countries where they
Speaker 2: have single payer healthcare. I'm not saying it's perfect. I
Speaker 2: know there are things they complain about and whish were
Speaker 2: different as well. But they look at our system and
Speaker 2: they're like, this is absolutely insane. Like if you're sick,
Speaker 2: you just go to the doctor and you get the
Speaker 2: that you need. And so yeah, when you put a
Speaker 2: profit motive at the center of this, it becomes grotesque
Speaker 2: and what you get out of it is profit for
Speaker 2: a lot of like effectively leeches and people patients who suffer.
Speaker 2: The same recorded message from that United CEO's name is
Speaker 2: Andrew Whitty.
Speaker 4: He also spoke to you know.
Speaker 2: He was trying to pump up the reputation of United Healthcare,
Speaker 2: which we had showed you before. Of all the health insurers,
Speaker 2: they actually have the highest.
Speaker 4: Claims denial rate.
Speaker 2: They're being sued for using this algorithm, which according to
Speaker 2: the lawsuit has a ninety percent error rate. So again
Speaker 2: they're innovating in waste use technology to also deny claims
Speaker 2: that patients need, you know, to be filled so that
Speaker 2: they can get the care that they need. So in
Speaker 2: any case, here is the CEO trying to pump up
Speaker 2: their reputation and talk about what a great actor they
Speaker 2: are in the space.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.
Speaker 5: I'm sure everybody has been disturbed by the amount of
Speaker 5: negative and in many cases vitriolic media and commentary that
Speaker 5: has been produced over the last few days, particularly in
Speaker 5: the social media environment, and I want to reassure you
Speaker 5: of a few things. Firstly, we are going to continue
Speaker 5: to make sure that we put patients, consumers, and members first,
Speaker 5: as we always have done. The mission of this company
Speaker 5: is truly to make sure that we help the system
Speaker 5: improve by helping the experience for individuals get better and better.
Speaker 5: There was nobody who did more to try and advance
Speaker 5: that mission than Brian Thompson. And there are very few
Speaker 5: people in the history of the US healthcare industry who
Speaker 5: had a bigger positive effect on American healthcare than Brian.
Speaker 5: And we are going to make sure that we not
Speaker 5: only acknowledge and honor that legacy Brian, but will continue it.
Speaker 5: Our role is a critical role, and we make sure
Speaker 5: that care is safe, appropriate, and it's delivered when people
Speaker 5: need it, and we guard against the pressures that exist
Speaker 5: for unsafe care or for unnecessary care to be delivered
Speaker 5: in a way which makes the whole system to complex
Speaker 5: and ultimately unsustainable.
Speaker 2: So kind of an interesting way of phrasing things there,
Speaker 2: he says, we guard against unnecessary care. And listen to
Speaker 2: your point, Sager, I'm sure there are instances where you know,
Speaker 2: doctors are incentivized to send you for a bunch of
Speaker 2: tasks that you don't necessarily need, or even a procedure
Speaker 2: that you don't.
Speaker 4: Oh well, you can ask god Senator Rick Scott about
Speaker 4: that one.
Speaker 2: But you know, they that's their sort of industry cope,
Speaker 2: is that they are these guardians against you getting quote
Speaker 2: unquote unnecessary care. But what he doesn't say is also
Speaker 2: swept up in this very generous mission is also a
Speaker 2: lot of actually necessary care that is also denied as
Speaker 2: much as they possibly can in order to boost.
Speaker 3: Their own well care denial and then also artificially artificial price.
Speaker 3: Insulin is the best example. We talk about it here
Speaker 3: about what the exact same dose, But insulin is the
Speaker 3: easiest one to understand because a ton of people need it,
Speaker 3: and the price here is insane compared to the rest
Speaker 3: of the world. But it's the same for everything. Dialysis,
Speaker 3: constive heart failure. Something like forty percent of the entire
Speaker 3: federal budget is like not federal budget Medicare spending I
Speaker 3: think is literally just dialysis and congestive heart failure, which
Speaker 3: are obesity shocking, right, And it's like, oh, well, it's
Speaker 3: interesting how there are certain things where obesity prints hundreds
Speaker 3: of billions of dollars a year for a lot of
Speaker 3: these places. And it's like, oh, it's very convenient to
Speaker 3: keep the price up on dialysis and on a few
Speaker 3: of these other drugs just to make sure that you're
Speaker 3: printing on it.
Speaker 1: It's just sick.
Speaker 2: Well, there's no incentive for people to do well that
Speaker 2: healthy people are not particularly profit you know, if they
Speaker 2: don't have to seek care in these repeated treatments that
Speaker 2: they can price gouge you on the other thing, that
Speaker 2: somebody made this point online, which I thought was an
Speaker 2: interesting one. They were like, you know, there's a reason
Speaker 2: why these healthcare CEOs are not household names, why they
Speaker 2: kind of try to keep a low profile, unlike a
Speaker 2: lot of other sort of famous celebrity CEOs, including like
Speaker 2: the heads of wool Street Banks, that Jamie Diamonds of
Speaker 2: the world, et cetera, et cetera. And it speaks to
Speaker 2: what you were saying, saga that on some level, they
Speaker 2: do know that they are hated. They do know the
Speaker 2: villainous place that they occupy, making millions of dollars a year,
Speaker 2: profiting off of people's like illness, pain, bankruptcy, and death.
Speaker 2: So so maybe you're right, maybe those executives aren't totally
Speaker 2: shocked that this would be the mass public reaction. I mean,
Speaker 2: I had to say even I was surprised at like
Speaker 2: how widespread the reaction was.
Speaker 4: And how significant it was.
Speaker 2: And you know, I knew the amount of pain and
Speaker 2: the health insurance system and the healthcare system in general,
Speaker 2: but this, uh, this outpouring was quite something to see.
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe on some level they did understand.
Speaker 3: What Yeah, I think are I mean, look, you know
Speaker 3: with this guy too, it's clear like he is the joker.
Speaker 3: I think he at a certain point, you know, he's
Speaker 3: what he's scrawling things on bullet lips, monopoly money, like
Speaker 3: he knew. I mean, maybe he was personally. In fact,
Speaker 3: he could also literally just be some mercenary believer.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not just buying any of this stuff, but like, uh,
Speaker 3: it's clear that there was something happening within all of this.
Speaker 3: And if he does get caught, you know, his trial.
Speaker 3: I think I said it before, like that is going
Speaker 3: to be the media event of the century in terms
Speaker 3: of you know, his own defense and what that would
Speaker 3: look like like you could you could see that becoming
Speaker 3: like an absolutely cultural sensation.
Speaker 4: Trump, Oh my god, it would be insane.
Speaker 1: It will be insane if they catch.
Speaker 2: Me completely and you only need one dror to be like,
Speaker 2: I'm not right.
Speaker 1: I saw Ryan say that.
Speaker 3: He's like, if I were him, I would just turn
Speaker 3: myself in just like put myself on trial by I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know the same time, like you even see
Speaker 3: people who are like parents of you know, parents of
Speaker 3: like rape victims will still get convicted whenever they acted.
Speaker 3: But I mean that jury instructions are very narrow. It's
Speaker 3: like did you commit the crime or not. It's not
Speaker 3: really up to like whether it was justified.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Jerry, and nullification is a thing, so
Speaker 2: the power Like Nope, I'm not going along with this.
Speaker 2: But if I do think Rind's point, if he is,
Speaker 2: if he's truly what she seems like, committed to the cause,
Speaker 2: that would be the next way the narrative right forward,
Speaker 2: especially if he isn't just like you know, a vigilante
Speaker 2: out to avenge others, but has his own personal story
Speaker 2: of pain suffering, you know, debt, bankruptcy, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Then yeah, you're right, it would be it would be something.
Speaker 2: It would be something.
Speaker 1: Let's get to milk.
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, so there is a bird flu situation unfolding
Speaker 2: amidst our nation's dairy herds and a new development that
Speaker 2: is quite significant. So this story is important for a
Speaker 2: number of reasons. We could put this up on the screen,
Speaker 2: but the US Department of Agriculture just ordered testing across
Speaker 2: the nation's milk supply effectively. What has happened here, and
Speaker 2: part of why this is so important is we've known
Speaker 2: for a while now that bird flu had jumped to
Speaker 2: these dairy cow herds, started apparently in Texas. There was
Speaker 2: a push among a lot of experts at that point
Speaker 2: to quarantine and make sure these cows were not being
Speaker 2: shipped across state lines. But the USDA, and especially the
Speaker 2: current head of the USDA under Biden Vilsack's very close
Speaker 2: it used to be a lobbyist for the dairy industry,
Speaker 2: so there was a priority put on continuing dairy industry
Speaker 2: profits at the time, and Also, there were a lot
Speaker 2: of fears of talking about a new pandemic, which is
Speaker 2: a real present risk with the possibility of this bird
Speaker 2: flu mutating enough so that it can sign infect humans
Speaker 2: and travel through human to human contact. So nobody wanted
Speaker 2: to talk about another pandemic. Nobody wanted to disrupt the
Speaker 2: dairy industry profits, so they delayed, and they delayed, and
Speaker 2: they delayed. Now there is a massive spread of this flu,
Speaker 2: especially throughout the West coast. So let me just read
Speaker 2: you a little bit about this. So they say this
Speaker 2: flu virus has been raising alarm since it was detected
Speaker 2: in a.
Speaker 4: Texas cow back in March.
Speaker 2: Since then, the virus has spread to over seven hundred
Speaker 2: and ten dairy herds that we know of across fifteen states.
Speaker 2: California has the highest number of infections. You also have
Speaker 2: a number of people fifty eight who have been infected
Speaker 2: with bird flu. Now, the overwhelming majority of those it's
Speaker 2: because they've come in direct contact with these animals or
Speaker 2: with the milk. The new federal order is going to
Speaker 2: allow regulators to test the bulk milk pools before they're pasteurized,
Speaker 2: so they can get a better sense of which herds
Speaker 2: are infected and moved to quarantine and try to get
Speaker 2: this thing under control. The program's launching first in California
Speaker 2: and Colorado, Michigan, Mississippi, Oregon, and Pennsylvania. Those are the
Speaker 2: states that have apparently been most impacted. They say the
Speaker 2: risks are not entirely clear, but scientists do say it's
Speaker 2: possible consuming infected milk could lead to an infection, but
Speaker 2: pasteurized milk remains safe to drink.
Speaker 4: That's with regards to raw milk.
Speaker 2: There was a raw milk batch that tested positive for
Speaker 2: bird flu which was recalled, and the bird flu virus
Speaker 2: stays in much larger and more significant quantities in the
Speaker 2: raw milk. There are no known cases that have been
Speaker 2: transmitted that way, but they're concerned that it could be possible,
Speaker 2: so that was the reason for issuing that mass recall.
Speaker 2: We could put this next piece up on the screen.
Speaker 2: This is about the risk of a potential pandemic. This
Speaker 2: is znap Tefecki writing The New York Times before this
Speaker 2: order was issued, which she has said has come.
Speaker 4: Basically, you're too late.
Speaker 2: They should have been doing this a lot earlier, to
Speaker 2: be a lot easier, a lot less onerous to stop
Speaker 2: the spread at this point among our nation's dairy cows.
Speaker 2: In any case, she says that this avian flu, having
Speaker 2: mutated its way across species, is already raging out of control.
Speaker 2: It's infected roughly a third of the dairy herds in
Speaker 2: California alone. Farm Workers have so far avoided tragedy as
Speaker 2: the virus has not yet acquired the genic tools to
Speaker 2: spread among humans, but seasonal flu will vastly increase the
Speaker 2: chances of that outcome as the colder weather drives. Is
Speaker 2: all endoors to our poorly ventilated houses and workplaces will
Speaker 2: be undertaking, and extraordinarily gamble that the nation is in
Speaker 2: no way prepared for. Some of the things that have
Speaker 2: been very concerning is there's an infected child in California
Speaker 2: who is not known to have come into contact with
Speaker 2: any sick animals at all. So there is a possibility
Speaker 2: that the virus is already spreading from human to humans
Speaker 2: since this child was not in contact with any sick animal.
Speaker 2: And then the last piece here, Sagarin gets your reaction
Speaker 2: is is we can put this up on the screen.
Speaker 2: So this is the raw milk brand that was recalled
Speaker 2: because bird flu.
Speaker 4: Was found in it.
Speaker 2: He might be picked for an FDA role they've asked
Speaker 2: him to apply as a quote raw milk advisor. He
Speaker 2: says that this recall is political, but you know, I'm
Speaker 2: convinced that the risks here of bird flu spreading significantly
Speaker 2: and mutating into a form where it could be passed
Speaker 2: and transmitted human to human is a significant enough risk that,
Speaker 2: you know, taking these precautions. Honestly, they should have been
Speaker 2: taken quite a while before so that they could have,
Speaker 2: you know, avoided this dangerous moment that we're in now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so based on upon my reading and
Speaker 3: my general perusal, there's a lot of skepticism I would
Speaker 3: say within the raw milk community and in terms of
Speaker 3: the like ant Cavodi Antikavidians who are very skeptical of this.
Speaker 3: They think that it's like planned or whatever. I don't
Speaker 3: know enough to be honest, and like, this is part
Speaker 3: of the issue with the fallout from COVID. Is like
Speaker 3: anytime somebody's warning me about a pandemic, I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: so we'll see, let's see how it works out first,
Speaker 3: And you know, especially like, okay, so it's no human
Speaker 3: to human transmission right so far? What is it it's
Speaker 3: like four dairy cows, ten from poultry.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, there's like seven hundred and ten herds.
Speaker 2: A third of the herds in California have been infected.
Speaker 3: Oh, I apologize, this is old. This is from August ninth.
Speaker 3: I thought it was from December ninth, which is the
Speaker 3: day that we're talking about. That's right, seven hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty six herds here. It is seven hundred and twenty herds,
Speaker 3: fifteen different states. No one has yet been known to
Speaker 3: become ill from drinking raw milk. The virus has now
Speaker 3: been detected in these herds. Yeah, but now in terms
Speaker 3: of the quote unquote jump the human human transmission, the
Speaker 3: possible cases here with.
Speaker 1: A child's that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so the worry is, you know, there's no proof.
Speaker 2: Or evidence that child it was a human in human transmission,
Speaker 2: but the child was not known to have come in
Speaker 2: contact with a sick animal, so that's where the concern raises.
Speaker 2: And there was also a pig that was infected, apparently
Speaker 2: because pigs are similar to humans, it's like less of
Speaker 2: a jump, et cetera. So I think the real story
Speaker 2: here is actually the opposite. They should have taken a
Speaker 2: lot more precautions more quickly, just in terms of doing
Speaker 2: the testing that they're doing now. You know, there was
Speaker 2: a decision that was made a while back. These cows
Speaker 2: are shipped across state lines all the time to you know,
Speaker 2: be milked or be bred or whatever, or be slaughtered.
Speaker 2: And there was a decision that was made quite a
Speaker 2: while ago after they knew that there was you.
Speaker 4: Know, this was spreading.
Speaker 2: This bird flu was spreading in dairy cows, which again
Speaker 2: it's a bird flu, so already it's made the leap
Speaker 2: into infecting cows and spreading wildly among cows. There was
Speaker 2: a decision that was made to say you can still
Speaker 2: ship these cows across state lines, and that is what
Speaker 2: fueled this broader spread, and of course the war spread,
Speaker 2: you have the more potential combinations. So because the USDA
Speaker 2: was too tied and too close to the dairy industry,
Speaker 2: they didn't take some of the things that could have
Speaker 2: just like nip this in the bud early on. So
Speaker 2: in any case, it's something to watch. I agree with
Speaker 2: your general point that like God for we have another
Speaker 2: actual pandemic because people are not going to believe anything
Speaker 2: because I mean, any of the like past you know,
Speaker 2: mistakes that were made, and also the way it just
Speaker 2: became this, you know, it became this mass cultural divide.
Speaker 2: So right now they're just basically hoping that the you know,
Speaker 2: the genetic recombination doesn't happen that allows it to significantly
Speaker 2: spread amongst humans, And it doesn't appear that that's happened yet,
Speaker 2: although the sick child is a reason for concern.
Speaker 4: But yeah, there's weird.
Speaker 2: In no way prepared to deal with another pandemic, either
Speaker 2: from a cultural or from a medical perspective.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not zero, there's zero trial.
Speaker 3: I mean even like my default position is like yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe you know, we'll I mean, that's the thing. I
Speaker 3: hate to say it, but based upon COVID and all
Speaker 3: the other things I want people to.
Speaker 1: Think of, there was a mental exercise.
Speaker 3: How many people, how many people would have to be
Speaker 3: proven sick for you to put on a mask again?
Speaker 3: For me, the numbers high, very high. For me to
Speaker 3: be flying sixteen hours on a plane with a mask
Speaker 3: again and getting tut tutted or whatever walking around outside
Speaker 3: like I will have to see.
Speaker 4: You know, the mask whatever. I don't really.
Speaker 1: Told what to do. The part that.
Speaker 2: Would the part that I would be very, very very
Speaker 2: I think I would just resist is the shutting down
Speaker 2: of the school. Oh shutting down that was to me,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously in retrospect, that was the wrong call
Speaker 2: and was you know, really damaging to kids in terms
Speaker 2: of their learning outcomes, and especially with COVID, which we
Speaker 2: knew pretty quickly was not really infecting kids, or it
Speaker 2: was infecting kids, but it wasn't making them, you know,
Speaker 2: sick to the point of death in almost all cases.
Speaker 2: So you know, obviously contours of a different disease you
Speaker 2: have to evaluate what that looks like. But that's the
Speaker 2: one where I would be very, very reluctive on.
Speaker 1: In fact, my SAT was actually canceled. I remember I
Speaker 1: was panicked because of H.
Speaker 3: One N one, which is so is the different this
Speaker 3: is H five N one was also bird flu, if
Speaker 3: I recall or no, that was swine flu. That's where
Speaker 3: it was swind This was like.
Speaker 2: To Obama Obama era. That was yeah, H five N
Speaker 2: one av in flu.
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, H five and one has hit Asia before.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure we've ever had a full blown bird flu,
Speaker 3: and I think.
Speaker 2: It's correct that this is the first time that we've
Speaker 2: seen it spread to cows is one of the things
Speaker 2: that I read. So in any case, I just wanted
Speaker 2: to highlight it as something that is out there that
Speaker 2: is a question mark for the future and could not
Speaker 2: have really any impact on all of our lives and
Speaker 2: could have agatical.
Speaker 3: Because then also think about all of the chaos first
Speaker 3: six months of it in mission. I mean, that's what
Speaker 3: the conspiracy theorists say. They're like, oh, pandemic, just right
Speaker 3: on time to destroy Trump's presence.
Speaker 4: Well, this has been but this has been spreading for
Speaker 4: a while.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I agree with you, but like, even
Speaker 3: if it's not called plandemic or whatever like, it still
Speaker 3: could be like a political catastrophe. Oh in terms of
Speaker 3: what and how people would have. Again, like my default
Speaker 3: on this is like prove it. You know, you need
Speaker 3: to prove that it's going to be on the shadow
Speaker 3: of a doubt if you want me to change my
Speaker 3: life like five percent, because as we learned last time,
Speaker 3: it's like, well, you start to give up a lot
Speaker 3: based upon a lot of shoddy in for me, and
Speaker 3: those things start to get it takes years to get
Speaker 3: pulled back, and there's no recriminations and how Fauci may
Speaker 3: g it apart in or whatever. I'm like, look hold
Speaker 3: on a second here, like you know, prove it. I
Speaker 3: don't necessarily disagree with what you said, Yeah, Phil Slack.
Speaker 2: And thus I was going to say, I think the
Speaker 2: real conspiracy, that's the real conspiracy, is the open one
Speaker 2: of like we'd rather just keep the profits flowing and
Speaker 2: ignore this and do what the dairy producers want, then
Speaker 2: to nip it.
Speaker 4: In the butt.
Speaker 2: And if it does, if it does develop into you know,
Speaker 2: something that can spread human and human and becomes a
Speaker 2: significant impact, you know, even if it's not, even if
Speaker 2: it's relatively mine, it just means more people getting sick.
Speaker 2: When you have vulnerable people, you know, some percentage of
Speaker 2: them will become sick enough to.
Speaker 4: Have their health run.
Speaker 2: And in fact, there's already a Canadian who is you know,
Speaker 2: really quite ill, in serious critical condition from this. So
Speaker 2: in any case, even if it's just at that level,
Speaker 2: the decisions to point back to will be the ones
Speaker 2: made under the Biden administration to just kind of like
Speaker 2: letter rip rather than nipping it in the bud.
Speaker 4: Early on, before there was any real risks.
Speaker 2: So to mean, that's the out and the open conspiracy
Speaker 2: is around the profit a big egg and the profit
Speaker 2: margins and incentives there.
Speaker 3: Sure definitely remember you have something in common with the
Speaker 3: raw milk people. They hate, they hate big agg just
Speaker 3: oh everybody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they blame them for keeping them down. Can
Speaker 1: I just say a long time.
Speaker 2: Let me just state my position. I think milk in
Speaker 2: general is disgusting. I don't drink I think milk is like,
Speaker 2: I think it's gross. I think it tastes gross. I
Speaker 2: think thinking about where it comes from is gross. Like
Speaker 2: I'm just not a milk person in general. So then
Speaker 2: the idea of we're going to make it even more
Speaker 2: like close to just like coming out of the cows.
Speaker 3: Utter No, but that's more that's how you should drink it.
Speaker 3: So I say, I would flip it around on you.
Speaker 3: I don't want any of it. I think it's gross
Speaker 3: to like go to the grocery store and look at
Speaker 3: the additives for all this like.
Speaker 1: Dh O mega three blah blah blah, all this other
Speaker 1: stuff in milk. I'm like, is it milk?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: What? What? What is that? Like?
Speaker 3: How does that even get to where we are now?
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I get it a typocritical. I'm sure
Speaker 3: I eat a lot of other things, a lot of
Speaker 3: different additives, but like milk in particular, whereas if it
Speaker 3: comes straight out of a copy way more likely to
Speaker 3: drink it.
Speaker 1: I've had it straight from the goat.
Speaker 2: Fallacy to think that just because it's like quote more natural,
Speaker 2: that it's better for.
Speaker 4: You people are drink bought milk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a reasonable risk to take. It's
Speaker 2: probably it's probably less risky than eating like raw oysters
Speaker 2: and stuff.
Speaker 4: If I had to guess, it's probably less risky than that.
Speaker 2: And to your point, there's no proof that even drinking
Speaker 2: H five and one infected raw milk.
Speaker 4: You're gonna get sick gives you Yeah, we'll.
Speaker 2: Get you sick. Now, it's a risk. They're worried that
Speaker 2: it could, but there is no proof that it does
Speaker 2: at this point. There are no documented cases of that.
Speaker 2: So to your point, but yeah, I am just not
Speaker 2: really a milkerson.
Speaker 3: Let me put in a word for goat milk. I
Speaker 3: actually think goat milk is good. I've had some raw
Speaker 3: goat milk and I've like, straight out of the goat.
Speaker 2: It was good, man, it was I love dairy praut. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the actual like just milk of any part.
Speaker 1: I've had milk straight from the cow. It was I mean,
Speaker 1: it was not bad. You know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting too because it doesn't come out cold, which
Speaker 3: is crazy thing to say, but most people are like,
Speaker 3: you know, used to drink cold milk from a fridge.
Speaker 3: When you drink milk from an animal, it's warm.
Speaker 1: Actually. Anyway, I like goat milk. I like goat cheese.
Speaker 3: I actually prefer more like goat based products than I
Speaker 3: do cow milk.
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other.
Speaker 2: The other thing, the other this is just random, but
Speaker 2: the other common American food product I find revolting as Ketchup.
Speaker 1: Ketchup.
Speaker 4: I hate Ketchup.
Speaker 2: My kids ruined ketchup for me. I don't want the
Speaker 2: amount that they wanted to eat when they were little
Speaker 2: and like dip their apples in it, and someone's like, oh, oh,
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 3: I recommend leaving the United States and then try and ketchup,
Speaker 3: because what you understand is that our ketchup is basically
Speaker 3: sugar water like sugar and tomato. Where when you eat ketchup,
Speaker 3: like in India or any of these other Indian Ketchup
Speaker 3: it's good, it's it's spicy, and you know it has
Speaker 3: no sugar, which turns out it's like everything in our
Speaker 3: country has sugar.
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other story.
Speaker 3: In fact, though, people in Asia, though they go to
Speaker 3: McDonald's or other places just to be able to eat.
Speaker 1: Hindz Amer because they think it tastes way better. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you have no idea.
Speaker 2: See, when I was in India, it was before I
Speaker 2: developed my ketchup or Vulture, and I definitely wanted the
Speaker 2: Heinz ketchup.
Speaker 5: Not that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean that's the points our hyper palette,
Speaker 3: you know, hyper palatable sugar and all this other crap.
Speaker 3: So anyway, live more like a live more like an Asian,
Speaker 3: you'll be better off.