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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and

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Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 3: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 4: Indeed we do.

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Speaker 2: Lots of gigantic news unfolding. Basher Alisad's government in Siri

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Speaker 2: has collapsed. He has fled the country to Moscow. Jerrescahill

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Speaker 2: is going to join us to try to figure out

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Speaker 2: what the hell is going on and what might come next,

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Speaker 2: as best as anyone can possibly figure. Also, the manhunt

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Speaker 2: for that killer of the healthcare CEO continues. Some interesting

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Speaker 2: evidence has been located, and also the cultural reaction continues

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Speaker 2: as well, and our own Ken Clippenstein got leaked. The

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Speaker 2: CEO of that company is like the larger healthcare group

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Speaker 2: his response, which is interesting as well. The FDA has

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Speaker 2: announced a new sweeping testing regime of the nation's dairy

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Speaker 2: supply amid fears of a new pandemic spark by bird flu,

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Speaker 2: which has been ravaging dairy cowed herds across the western

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Speaker 2: part of the country. So something definitely to keep an

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Speaker 2: eye on there. Trump gave a wide ranging interview to

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Speaker 2: Kristen Welker over at NBC News. Will bring you some

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Speaker 2: of the highlights of that and a little bit of reaction.

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Speaker 2: I'm taking a look at all of the billionaires in

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Speaker 2: Trump's administration and what they might want. And we also

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Speaker 2: had an update last evening. A civil lawsuit has been

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Speaker 2: filed against Jay Z accusing him of raping a thirteen

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Speaker 2: year old girl. He of course denies the charges, but

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Speaker 2: we will tell you what we know about that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's there's a lot going on there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is linked to the Ditty allegations. So we

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Speaker 2: actually had heard some of this from this you know

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Speaker 2: at the time girl now woman, But jay Z hadn't

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Speaker 2: been named. So now the new edition is that he

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Speaker 2: has been named.

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Speaker 3: He's our named, He's fighting Matt hard Well, drama involving

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Speaker 3: the lawyers, et cetera. We'll get to all of that,

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Speaker 3: but thank you to all of our premium subscribers. We

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Speaker 3: love you, We appreciate you, Thank you very much. We really,

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Speaker 3: you know, just been we've been thinking just about how

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Speaker 3: to build the show for the future and more, and

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Speaker 3: it's just so thankful to have all of you, and

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Speaker 3: also just to see the overwhelming number of people who

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Speaker 3: came in.

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Speaker 1: After the election. It's great to have you.

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Speaker 3: As you said, we took a look at our Spotify

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Speaker 3: rapped numbers and there's always some great surprises. The Vouch

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Speaker 3: Dave Smith Debate is our number one shared episode of

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Speaker 3: the year, which is amazing. Also is Counterpoints Debate literally,

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Speaker 3: so that was thank thanks to our premusubscribers to be

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Speaker 3: able to expand content. There's a lot of interesting stuff

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Speaker 3: in those In terms of the amount of growth that

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Speaker 3: we've received over after the election. Actually, you know, you

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Speaker 3: would assume that our election coverage be the most downloaded,

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Speaker 3: but it was actually our post election coverage which is

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Speaker 3: the most really see that November twentieth, twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: is the largest day in the history of breaking points

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Speaker 3: like by a mile, which is amazing, But I don't

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Speaker 3: really nothing in particular, even like happened that day. Something

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Speaker 3: went viral interesting so we could see that, you know,

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Speaker 3: in terms of the numbers. But yes, thank you to

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Speaker 3: there was seriously tens hundreds of thousands of people who

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Speaker 3: joined the podcast and this just last year, so thanks

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Speaker 3: very much. And if you can't become a premus describer,

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Speaker 1: It really does help us out here.

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Speaker 2: So that conversation Emily and Ryan did with the seeking

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Speaker 2: arrangements Sugar Baby Late, actually that got a lot of interest,

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Speaker 2: a lot of discussion around that.

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Speaker 1: When it those some people were not happy, but some

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Speaker 1: people like that. Yeah, I like the cover.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was very interesting personally to hear.

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Speaker 2: So in any case, you guys make those that expansion

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Speaker 2: of the show possible. We're actually having a big meeting

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Speaker 2: today with our producers to think about next year and

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Speaker 2: what we can do to continue to build. So thank

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Speaker 2: you guys all so much for your support. All right, sagre,

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Speaker 2: what is going on in Syria?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? What is not going on in Syria?

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Speaker 3: We're going to start off with some video, so let's

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Speaker 3: go ahead and play some of this for the audience.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk over it while.

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Speaker 3: It is just stunning scenes with the fall of Damascus

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Speaker 3: to these quote unquote rebels. We'll tell you about those

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Speaker 3: rebels in a little bit, but you can literally see,

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Speaker 3: you know, scenes reminiscent of the fall of Baghdad, the

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Speaker 3: destruction of Asad statues, both Bashar Assad and his own

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Speaker 3: father who ruled the country from some fifty odd years.

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Speaker 3: The most shocking scenes really are some of these that

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Speaker 3: have been coming out of the secret and historic prison

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Speaker 3: that was in Damascus that housed a lot of these

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Speaker 3: political prisoners, you know, small children, lots of women, men

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Speaker 3: who have been locked in these cells for what.

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Speaker 1: Some odd years now.

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Speaker 3: I saw some reports some of them literally didn't even

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Speaker 3: know what a smartphone was, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: That's how long I'm locked up? Wow? I me yeah.

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Speaker 3: If you think it's the civil war has been going

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Speaker 3: on since twenty twelve, maybe even with the brutal regime.

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Speaker 3: You know a lot of these people who have been

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Speaker 3: housing there for a long time. Some eyes also open

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Speaker 3: for Austin Tice, the American citizen. The US government does

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Speaker 3: believe he is alive, and he was being held by

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Speaker 3: the Ouside regimes. We're hoping that he's returned sometimes soon.

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Speaker 3: This is apparently is a bunch of rebels trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out how to operate a helicopter. But here we

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Speaker 3: have Al Jilani, the leader of HTS, the new presumptive

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Speaker 3: leader I guess of Damascus, out of Syria, giving a

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Speaker 3: speech of talking about quote, there's no house in Syria.

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Speaker 3: The wars knocked down on Praise be to God. Today

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Speaker 3: you are recovering God willing, Thank God, mister Jolani literally

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Speaker 3: a wanted terrorist, you know, by the United States government,

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Speaker 3: and that at one point we're offering a ten million

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Speaker 3: dollar reward for his capture. His own history is a

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Speaker 3: little bit shocking, and really, you know, from step by

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Speaker 3: step is just failure of US policy after failure of

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Speaker 3: a policy. This is a man who is radicalized by

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Speaker 3: the Second Intafada, becomes a committed Jihatist, goes to fight

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Speaker 3: in Iraq. He is held in the infamous kind of

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Speaker 3: basically jihadi university prison by United States forces in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and three. In two thousand and four, he's released.

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Speaker 3: He joins Zarkawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq. There's eventually some

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Speaker 3: drama and he splits off and goes to Syria. And

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Speaker 3: he's been one of the most committed leaders of the

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Speaker 3: al Qaeda offshoot in Syria.

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Speaker 1: Now, you know, the defenders.

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Speaker 3: Quote unquote will say, oh, well, he's distanced himself from

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Speaker 3: al Qaeda. He's actually purged some of the elements of that.

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Speaker 3: We'll see it really does remain. But I mean the

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Speaker 3: truth is is, if you look at this man's history,

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Speaker 3: he has been a committed jihadist who's been fighting either

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Speaker 3: US forces, the West or frankly even some of the

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Speaker 3: religious minorities inside of Syria now.

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Speaker 1: For over a decade.

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Speaker 3: So, yes, this is the final conclusion, it seems, of

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Speaker 3: the Syrian Civil War, some fourteen years brutal civil war.

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Speaker 3: One hundreds of thousands are dead. But there is no

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Speaker 3: indication that this is it, right. I mean, there are

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Speaker 3: still so many different religious minorities in Syria.

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Speaker 1: You have the Kurdish faction in the SDF.

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Speaker 3: You have ten percent of the country which is Christian,

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Speaker 3: you have the Druze population as well, damaskets itself where Look,

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Speaker 3: you could say a lot of things about Asad, but

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Speaker 3: it actually was genuinely kind of diverse, quote unquote, a

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Speaker 3: lot of those people did support the Asad regime.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows now, you know, what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: It's some indications in Aleppo that they haven't cracked down

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Speaker 3: on religious minorities yet. You know, we don't know, but

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Speaker 3: you know, there's going to be no cheering today on

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Speaker 3: this show because they they're and I am a little

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Speaker 3: heartened by this. At the very least, there is a

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Speaker 3: heavy amount of realism I have seen, at least in

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Speaker 3: some analysis, even at the mainstream level Crystal people are like, did.

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Speaker 1: We is this a good thing?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 1: Did we win?

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Speaker 3: Is this a celebration of US policy? And don't you know,

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Speaker 3: don't brainwash yourself. Yes, this war, a lot of it

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Speaker 3: was fought by Syrians, a lot of it was fought

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Speaker 3: by foreigners, a lot of it was funded by foreign dollars,

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Speaker 3: including our foreign dollars. And President Biden's statement which we'll

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Speaker 3: get to in a little bit is a full on celebration.

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Speaker 3: But I am at least heartened by you know, the

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Speaker 3: incoming vice president elect and a few others being like,

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Speaker 3: are we sure that this is a good thing? You know,

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Speaker 3: this this this may actually end up being like the

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Speaker 3: fall of Gaddafi and unleashing hell for this country for

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Speaker 3: another fourteen years.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how you could live through Iraq, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: Libya and just feel like, yay, yay, they're not gonna

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Speaker 2: go great agi or exactly living through all of the

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Speaker 2: Arab spring. And so I think anyone who was sentient,

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Speaker 2: who you know, observed those you know, moments of optimism

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Speaker 2: turn into horror.

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Speaker 4: I don't think anyone.

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Speaker 2: Could watch that and just feel really super confident, especially

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Speaker 2: given what we know about this faction, Rubbel faction that

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Speaker 2: you know, is an offshoot of al Qaeda. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's saying the right things about you know, commitment to

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Speaker 2: religious and ethnic diversity within Syria, but this is a

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Speaker 2: committed jihadis a commitment committed Islamist. So we shall see

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Speaker 2: not to mention you already see, and we'll get into

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Speaker 2: this with with Jeremy as well. You already see Israel

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Speaker 2: making moves to annex territory and take advantage of the situation.

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Speaker 2: Obviously there's going to be a vacuum. Obviously this is

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Speaker 2: going to be a very weak government. This really came

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Speaker 2: out of nowhere. I mean, I don't think this was

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Speaker 2: really on anyone's radar until these rebels were able to

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Speaker 2: so quickly take over Aleppo. The Syrian forces scattered, there

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Speaker 2: was a realization the the you know, foreign government governments,

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Speaker 2: whether it was Iran or Russia that had been backing

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Speaker 2: this sad regime were no longer there to you know,

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Speaker 2: to keep them in place, and very very very quickly

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Speaker 2: things collapsed, and like that you have a new government

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Speaker 2: in Syria. So with all of that setting of the table,

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Speaker 2: let's go ahead and get to our guest, Jeremy Scahill,

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Speaker 2: of course, co founder of drop site News, alongside our

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Speaker 2: own Ryan Grimm, who is you know, a fantastic observer

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Speaker 2: of this entire region and has a good bird's eye view.

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Speaker 4: Of how all of these pieces fit together. So let's

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Speaker 4: get to that.

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Speaker 3: Joining us now is Jeremy Scahill is the co founder

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Speaker 3: of drop site News and a great journalists.

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Speaker 1: Good to see sir, thank.

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Speaker 6: You, thanks for having me back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so, Jeremy.

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Speaker 3: We want to get your reaction to assume these rapid

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Speaker 3: developments in Syria, but also in respect to what's happening

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Speaker 3: with Israel and his current expansion of territory. First, let's

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Speaker 3: get your reaction to this SoundBite put out by bab

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Speaker 3: Net and Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: In reaction, let's take a lesson.

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Speaker 7: This is a historic day for the Middle East. The

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Speaker 7: collapse of the Acid regime, the tyranny in Damascus, offers

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Speaker 7: great opportunity, but also is fraught with significant dangers. This

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Speaker 7: collapse is a direct result of our forceful action against

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Speaker 7: Kibaala and Iran Asad's main supporters. It's set off a

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Speaker 7: chain reaction of all those who want to free themselves

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Speaker 7: from this tyranny and its suppression. But it also means

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Speaker 7: we have to take action against possible threats. One of

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Speaker 7: them is the collapse of the separation of forces agreement

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Speaker 7: from nineteen seventy four between Israel and Syria. This agreement

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Speaker 7: held for fifty years. Last night it collapsed. The Syrian

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Speaker 7: army abandoned its positions. We gave the Israeli army the

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Speaker 7: order to take over this positions to ensure that no

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Speaker 7: hostile force embeds itself right next to the border of Israel.

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Speaker 7: This is a temporary defensive position until a suitable arrangement

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Speaker 7: is found. Equally, we send a hand of peace to

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Speaker 7: all those beyond our border in Syria, to the Jews,

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Speaker 7: to the Kurds, to the Christians, and to the Muslims

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Speaker 7: who want to live in peace with Israel. We're going

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Speaker 7: to follow events very carefully. If we can establish neighborly

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Speaker 7: relations and a peaceful relations with the new forces emerging

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Speaker 7: in Syria, that's our desire. But if we do not,

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Speaker 7: we'll do whatever it takes to defend the state of

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Speaker 7: Israel and the border of Israel.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy your reaction to that.

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Speaker 8: Let's remember that not long before October seventh, Netanyahu gave

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Speaker 8: a speech at the United Nations in which he brandished

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Speaker 8: a mapp of the Middle East that showed a total

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Speaker 8: erasure of Palestine in any form whatsoever, and portrayed it

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Speaker 8: as a greater Israel that was going to be the

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Speaker 8: conduit that would connect the south and north of the

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Speaker 8: world in the Eastern Hemisphere with sort of a great

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Speaker 8: new Silk Road that would be heralded in by Israel,

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Speaker 8: and Netnyaho has made very clear that he supports a

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Speaker 8: dramatic expansion of the state of Israel. And so, you know,

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Speaker 8: while he may be exaggerating Israel's role or the role

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Speaker 8: that it played in the events in Syria, certainly Israel's

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Speaker 8: actions in the Middle East did play a role, and

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Speaker 8: Netnyaho now is trying to seize the moment to literally

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Speaker 8: invade kilometers into Syria. Israel does not have a track

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Speaker 8: record of seizing territory and then saying, oh, well, actually

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Speaker 8: we were just doing this for our security.

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Speaker 6: We're going to back out of it.

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Speaker 8: I mean, look no further than the non ceasefire that

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Speaker 8: the Biden administration broker in Lebanon, where Israel has repeatedly

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Speaker 8: been violating. It still has its forces occupying. But there

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Speaker 8: certainly is a discussion to be had about how the

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Speaker 8: impact in Gaza and Lebanon and the broader war that

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Speaker 8: Metnyahu is waging in the Middle East impacted events on

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Speaker 8: the ground in Syria. But this is a multi dimensional

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Speaker 8: conflict in Syria with a lot of foreign actors involved

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Speaker 8: with it, as you alluded to earlier. So I think

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Speaker 8: that on the one hand, we can examine Israel's role.

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Speaker 8: On the other hand, we have to talk about the

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Speaker 8: United States, Turkey, Gulf countries, Russia has belat Iran, and

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Speaker 8: then the Syrian forces themselves on the ground.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk a little bit more about that.

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Speaker 2: Eric, if you could put a four up on the screen,

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Speaker 2: this tear sheet from the Wall Street Journal that lays

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Speaker 2: out some of those dynamics that you're discussing. The headline

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Speaker 2: here as Asad's downfall marks a new realignment in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East. You had Turkey backing the rebels, you had

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Speaker 2: Russia previously backing Asad. Asad has now fled reportedly to Moscow.

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Speaker 2: You know, questions about what various countries and factions in

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Speaker 2: the region stand to benefit from these developments. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what is your reaction overall to what has been a

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Speaker 2: stunning chain of events and you know, total collapse of

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Speaker 2: government in just a few days.

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Speaker 8: I think that there's several ways that we have to

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Speaker 8: look at this, and we shouldn't strip Syrians themselves of

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Speaker 8: their agency in this or their moment to sort of

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Speaker 8: express relief at someone that many Syrians viewed as a butcher,

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Speaker 8: a war criminal, their torturer, their main violator of human rights.

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Speaker 8: You know, Crystal, I was in Iraq when Saddam Hussein

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Speaker 8: emptied the Abu Grab prison shortly before the United States

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Speaker 8: invaded Iraq, and there were people coming out of that

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Speaker 8: Abu Grab prison who had been there for decades, and

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Speaker 8: we saw some of the facilities that were used to

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Speaker 8: torture people in Saddam's prison. And as I've seen some

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Speaker 8: of the footage coming out of prisoners being released from

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Speaker 8: Asad's per in Syria, it brought back memories for me

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Speaker 8: of that. And I think, you know, if you're talking

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Speaker 8: about people that are political prisoners, that have spent decades

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Speaker 8: in a dungeon and have been tortured under heinous circumstances,

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Speaker 8: everyone should be glad to see prisoners being liberated. So

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Speaker 8: on the one hand, I fully understand why many Syrians

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Speaker 8: are celebrating this day. On the other hand, the forces

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Speaker 8: that are now taking control HTS and others have a

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Speaker 8: track record of their own brutality, of their own killing

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Speaker 8: of ethnic and religious minorities, of running their own torture

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Speaker 8: prison operations, and the United States for many years, has

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Speaker 8: had its hand in the dirty war in Syria.

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Speaker 6: I mean at one point, the United.

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Speaker 8: States was spending a billion dollars in CIA operations alone,

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Speaker 8: training so called rebel forces. You have many nations that

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Speaker 8: have had a role to play in this really dirty situation.

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Speaker 8: And then on the Russia and Iran side, you know, well,

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Speaker 8: Bashar Asad was a member of the so called Axis

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Speaker 8: of Resistance, the Nation States and non state actors that

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Speaker 8: had a common pledge to confront Israel in the region. Largely,

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Speaker 8: what Asad's support for that axis consisted of was allowing

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Speaker 8: passage through Syria of weapons, logistics personnel going into Lebanon

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Speaker 8: and to resupply hesblah and others. But there's also a

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Speaker 8: whole other part of this story, which is that at

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Speaker 8: times both Israel and the United States worked with Bashar

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Speaker 8: al Assad. One story that I know you guys are

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Speaker 8: familiar with was that in two thousand and two, a

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Speaker 8: Canadian Syrian named Mahar Rar was kidnapped at JFK Airport

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Speaker 8: by the CIA and he was sent to Syria where

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Speaker 8: he was tortured in those very prisons that were seeing

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Speaker 8: footage of by the Asad regime's forces. Asad was on

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Speaker 8: the verge of making some sort of a deal prior

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Speaker 8: to the twenty eleven protests out and we haven't seen

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Speaker 8: Syria launching air attacks at Israel over the past year.

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Speaker 8: You know, Hesbola was doing that, Iran was doing that,

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Speaker 8: even the Huthi's of Yemen were doing that. But Asad

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Speaker 8: has sort of played all sides of the fence. But really,

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Speaker 8: in the days leading up to HTS seizing Aleppo, Holmes,

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Speaker 8: Hama and ultimately Damascus, net Yaho was starting to directly

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Speaker 8: threaten Asad and say that if he didn't stop efforts

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Speaker 8: to resupply Hesbilad during this so called ceasefire, that he

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Speaker 8: would directly pay a price for it. Israel has been

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Speaker 8: bombing the past couple of days targets around Syria. They

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Speaker 8: claim that they're trying to degrade chemical weapons air defense systems,

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Speaker 8: but Israel is certainly exploiting this opportunity to try to

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Speaker 8: go in and preemptively strike all around Syria. No one

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Speaker 8: should pretend that this is about self defense. No one

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Speaker 8: should pretend that this is about humanitarian motives. Net Yahoo

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Speaker 8: and the Israeli state have a very extreme agenda to

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Speaker 8: seize Ara Bland, and I think that's a large part

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Speaker 8: of what we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Jeremy, we also have President Biden openly celebrating this.

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Speaker 3: We have a three Please let's play that and we'll

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Speaker 3: get his reaction.

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Speaker 9: Well, happened in the least after thirteen years a civil

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Speaker 9: war in Syria more than half a century, brutal Afar

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Speaker 9: turned rule by a sure a SOD has fathered before him.

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Speaker 9: Rebel force is a forced Assad to resign his office

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Speaker 9: and flee the country. We're not sure he is, but

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Speaker 9: the word that he's in Moscow at long last the

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Speaker 9: SOD regime has fallen.

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Speaker 3: So you can see that he's at long last it's fallen.

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Speaker 3: He's celebrated it. So the United States will continue to participate.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is not a good look if we

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Speaker 3: are to literally talking about an al Qaeda takeover of

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Speaker 3: the country. So in context of the nets On Yahu

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Speaker 3: statement and how here the United States president, what is

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Speaker 3: the policy here that will shape what comes after?

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Speaker 1: Now that Asada is out, Well, you.

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Speaker 8: Can go back and find video of Joe Biden when

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Speaker 8: he was Vice president really directly stating what many people

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Speaker 8: are talking about right now, which is that you have

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Speaker 8: Abu Muhammad al Jolani remains a wanted terrorist in the

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Speaker 8: language of the United States, with a ten million dollar

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Speaker 8: bounty on his head. Secretary of State Blincoln has not,

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Speaker 8: to my knowledge, removed HTS from the list of foreign

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Speaker 8: designated terrorist organizations. Jake Sullivan, the current National Security Advisor,

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Speaker 8: we know from wikileage's cables, actually at one point acknowledged

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Speaker 8: that al Qaeda was on the same side as the

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Speaker 8: United States in Syria. All of this is very relevant

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Speaker 8: and no one should be derided for raising what our factual,

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Speaker 8: factual rendering of events and the history leading up to this.

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Speaker 8: We're going to see now is an aggressive rebranding effort.

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Speaker 8: This has been going on for a couple of years

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Speaker 8: with HTS and Jolani, but I think you're going to

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Speaker 8: see an intensification of this. Britain already is debating whether

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Speaker 8: or not to remove them from their terror designation. The

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Speaker 8: United Nations also has designated HTS as a terror organization.

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Speaker 8: So you know, on the one hand, the United States

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Speaker 8: is opportunistic. It's looking to try to ensure that it

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Speaker 8: has its own resources protected. The United States is tremendously

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Speaker 8: happy that Russia has had to withdraw from its naval

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Speaker 8: and air base in Syria. The United States since going

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Speaker 8: back to the nineteen fifties, wanted to prevent Russia from

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Speaker 8: having any kind of a.

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Speaker 6: Foothold in the Middle East.

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Speaker 8: So, you know, while I think that we should focus

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Speaker 8: on Syrians and their views of this, the geopolitical realities

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Speaker 8: of this go back many decades. It's Cold War politics,

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Speaker 8: it's the US wanting Russia out of it, It's the

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Speaker 8: move toward trying.

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Speaker 6: To do regime change in Iran.

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Speaker 8: I think the Iranians are looking at this and saying

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Speaker 8: we should accelerate our attempt to get a nuclear weapon

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Speaker 8: because they're watching the dominoes fall in the Middle East

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Speaker 8: right now. And you have a kind of a perfect

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Speaker 8: storm that has been created by the Biden administration's policy,

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Speaker 8: where now Donald Trump takes power, he's sending a total

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Speaker 8: lunatic Mike Huckabee as the ambassador to Israel. You could

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Speaker 8: have an attempt to actually destroy the al Akxamasque. You

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Speaker 8: could have an attempt to do actual overt regime change

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Speaker 8: in Iran and Syria falling I think has caused great

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Speaker 8: nervousness in other Arab capitals, where despotic regimes are fearful

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Speaker 8: that this will be contagious.

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Speaker 2: Talk a little bit more about the incoming Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: What can we glean from his last time in office

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Speaker 2: viz a VI his approached them, no least generally, but

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Speaker 2: specifically towards Syria.

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, I mean, Trump put out a statement

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Speaker 8: the other day that was a kind of you know,

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Speaker 8: it was a mess. It had something for everyone to

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Speaker 8: read into it. And you know, Trump is kind of

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Speaker 8: a master at leaving the door open to interpretation. When

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Speaker 8: it comes to Israel, he has openly pledged that he's

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Speaker 8: going to give net and Yahu carte blanche. If you

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Speaker 8: look on paper, it would seem that very ominous days

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Speaker 8: are ahead for the region. But also when Trump was

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Speaker 8: in power the first time, some of the bluster and

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Speaker 8: rhetoric that he unloaded on the campaign trail, when he

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Speaker 8: then became the commander in chief, there were moments when

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Speaker 8: he was a president that embraced notions of restraint. We

437
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 8: know that there were big battles between some of Trump's

438
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 8: people and Trump himself and some of the neo cons

439
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 8: like John Bolton, And then at the end of the day,

440
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 8: I think ego plays a role in this. Does Donald

441
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 8: Trump want to have when he enters office. Fires raging

442
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 8: across the Middle East. Iran certainly put out indicators that

443
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 8: they wanted to negotiate with Trump. It does seem like

444
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 8: there may be some deal between Hamas and Israel that

445
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 8: probably wouldn't have happened if Biden had another year in

446
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 8: office and it wasn't Trump. So, you know, while I'm

447
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 8: while I'm inclined to say that, I think, you know,

448
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 8: Trump is an ultra militaristic guy. In some ways, he

449
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 8: does have instincts that veer off the path of American Empire.

450
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 8: And I think that if there's going to be any

451
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 8: chance of the fires getting put out, it would be

452
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 8: because of the quirky, strange nature of Donald Trump's approach

453
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 8: to foreign policy.

454
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's really well said, Jeremy. As we

455
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: continue to watch all this, we're going to be relying

456
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 3: heavily on drop side. So thank you so much for

457
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 3: joining us man.

458
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: We appreciate you.

459
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 6: Thank you, guys.

460
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: So, meanwhile, the manhunt continues for the killer of that

461
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: CEO of United Healthcare. Harry enton Over at CNN broke

462
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 2: down some of the reasons why he has apparently been

463
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: so difficult to find. Let's take a listen.

464
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 10: The number one thing that should stand out at Central

465
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 10: Park is it's just freaking huge. I mean, that's the

466
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 10: number one thing that should stand out. It makes up

467
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 10: six percent of Manhattan. There are eight lakes and ponds,

468
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,479
Speaker 10: so you could potentially drop that backpack anywhere. There are

469
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 10: seven hundred or more garbage cans as of twenty twenty one. Again,

470
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 10: a lot of places that you might have to search

471
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 10: in Central Park if you're trying to find somebody or

472
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 10: find a backpack. But more than that, it's really easy

473
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 10: to blend in in Central Park and escape there without

474
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 10: people noticing. Why is that because get this, there are

475
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 10: about fifty exits and entrances from Central Park, and more

476
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 10: than that, there are about forty thousand winter weekday visitors.

477
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 10: So you can get out of the park really easily,

478
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 10: and you can really blend into the park quite easily.

479
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 10: Erica Harry, please see the suspect also may have gotten

480
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 10: out of the city by using the George Washington bus terminal. Yeah,

481
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 10: so I have been to that bus terminal. It's actually

482
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 10: fairly close to where I grew up. And what you

483
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 10: should know about it, it's really busy on your average

484
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 10: weekday they are about nine hundred plus buses that come

485
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 10: in and out of the terminal daily. There are about

486
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 10: ten thousand plus passengers who come either in or out

487
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 10: of the terminal daily, and more than that, there are

488
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 10: a ton of potential destinations from the George Washington Bus terminal.

489
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 10: Look at this map right here. You can go all

490
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 10: the way up. Look at this, go all the way

491
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 10: up to Boston. You can go all the way down

492
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 10: to Philadelphia, or you can go all away to western

493
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 10: New York.

494
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: So what we know basically at this point is so

495
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 2: we've all, you know, seen the footage, the security footage

496
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: of the actual killing, and he hops on a bike,

497
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: goes into Central Park, emerges somewhere upper West Side, hops

498
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: in a cab. We actually have an image of him

499
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: in the cab that just came out, which, by the way,

500
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: a bunch of these pictures that they're saying, are you know,

501
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: person Adventure is basically alleging as a suspect. They really

502
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: do look like different people, but it's hard to tell

503
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: because a lot of them are mask You can see

504
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: him here.

505
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: So with his quality of the camera is not very high, So.

506
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, with his mask. So this is the latest photo

507
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: that has emerged. So anyway, gets in, this cab goes

508
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: to the George Washington Bridge bus terminal. I mean, I

509
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: haven't been to that particular bus terminal, but I've been

510
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: to plenty of I've been to the main New York

511
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: City bus terminal. And the number of buses coming in

512
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: and out of these things, the number of people, I mean,

513
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: it's just, you know, it's constant. So he goes in,

514
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: he doesn't come out. So the presumption is, of course,

515
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: that he took a bus somewhere to make his getaway,

516
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 2: and they've only just recently found he apparently ditched his

517
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: backpack in Central Park near the Merry Go Round. There's

518
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: an image of that backpack, and based on what we know,

519
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: it was apparently stuffed with his jacket and monopoly money.

520
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 4: So it seems like he fully intended.

521
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy is the joker.

522
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 3: It's not about it's about strangling a message. Yeah, he

523
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 3: sees the joker.

524
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: He intended them to find this backpack, and yet, by

525
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: the way, still took the cops three days to find

526
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: it in Central Park, knowing that it was likely somewhere

527
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: in there. So I mean, that's effectively where we are

528
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: right now. Eric Adams, mayor of New York City, is

529
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: claiming that they have a name. We could put this

530
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: up on the screen. This was at some holiday party.

531
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: I believe he made these comments.

532
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 4: He says. The net is tightening on.

533
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: The CEO's suspected killer. He says, they have a name,

534
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: but we don't want to release that now. If we do,

535
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: we're basically giving a tip to the person worseeeki. We

536
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: don't want to give him an upper hand at all.

537
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: Let him continue to believe he can hide behind the masks.

538
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: We revealed his face, We're going to reveal who he is,

539
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: and we're going to bring him to justice personally. And

540
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: I don't really believe him.

541
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 4: I don't know.

542
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a strategic reason not to reveal the name,

543
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: or maybe you don't want to get in legal trouble

544
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: by implicating someone who you're not one hundred percent sure

545
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: that it is. But if you're out there saying we

546
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: know your name, then now the guy knows that you

547
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: know his name.

548
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 4: But I don't know. I'm a little skeptical.

549
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: It seems like the more time goes on, like the

550
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: trail has as best as the public knows effectively gone cold.

551
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 2: And it is kind of wild given this was you know,

552
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: early morning hours, but there were plenty of people out

553
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: in New York City. It was in the most densely

554
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: packed tourist area of New York City. Number of surveillance

555
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: cameras all around are crazy. They even have drone surveillance

556
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: now in New York City. And this guy was just

557
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: able to effectively vanish without a trace and was able

558
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: to be in the city for some ten days, but

559
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: very careful about keeping his face hidden and keeping away

560
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: from cameras, etc. So, based on what the public knows,

561
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: seems like very very little that they are going on.

562
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 2: New York City has twenty five thousand cameras at traffic

563
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: intersections alone, and that drune surveillance initiative which began over Central.

564
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 3: Park and one billion dollars a year spent on a

565
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: lot of this not to I mean, look, this is

566
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 3: a good view, by the way, into how much all

567
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 3: of us are surveiled all the time. And the justification

568
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 3: for it is that, oh, it's so easy to stop

569
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: terrorists and it's easy to catch killers. Well, it's been

570
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: more than seventy two hours this man has been on

571
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 3: the run. I mean, presumably even with the FEDS involved

572
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: in all that, we still don't have him being apprehended.

573
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 3: His name has not been released or even leaked. That

574
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: is one reason why I'm really skeptical. The NYPD is massive,

575
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 3: and you know, it leaks like a sieve. And I've

576
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: covered these terrorism cases and others for a long time.

577
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: When they have a name Tom Winters at NBC or whatever,

578
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: it'll have it in like two seconds.

579
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

580
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: But even if they don't want to officially put it, Yeah, even.

581
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: When they don't want to put it out, it ends

582
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: up leaking. This happens every time.

583
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: Well then, and there's also no indication that they've alert

584
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: Like if you had a name, wouldn't you alert all

585
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: the airport and at the border, et cetera, so that

586
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: if that person shows up with their passport you know

587
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: what to do.

588
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 4: But there's no indication that.

589
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that actually raises even crazier questions,

590
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: is like was he able to get out of the country?

591
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: You know, was he able to I think it's very

592
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: possible states. I mean, you know, you could take a

593
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: bus pretty easy to upstate New York. Canada is not

594
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: that far away, so there's there's a lot of indications,

595
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: and then from there, you know, who knows you can

596
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: get a blight to anywhere you can go to switch.

597
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 4: Do hanging out with the sun and Moscow right now, at.

598
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: Moscow, I think that's where I would head. I would

599
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: head to Moscow.

600
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean when you when you read all

601
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 3: of this, it is both terrifying in terms of how

602
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: much we are surveilled, and then it also opens the

603
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: door of like, well, what's the point of all this surveillance.

604
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean, look, maybe it's me.

605
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: I think it's creepy that when you're in a cab

606
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 3: you're on camera, you know, I mean I get it,

607
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 3: you know, crime and people getting robbed and all of that,

608
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: but it's weird. It's like every time you get into

609
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: an uber, it's like you don't even think about it

610
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: and you're just your face is being broadcast.

611
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: Who knows what this person is going to do to it.

612
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: You're in hostile if somebody videoing there, you're on the street,

613
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: you know, you can track your you know your location everywhere.

614
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: This is an interesting I saw a funny analysis.

615
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: It just goes to show you that we're lucky that

616
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 3: we live in a country where it's mostly like low

617
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: IQ people who can make crime, because it turns out

618
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: like if you if you want to get away with it,

619
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: I mean, to a certain extent.

620
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: You kind of can.

621
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: I personally thought, I said, there's no way this guy's

622
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: not in cups, just because I had maybe too much

623
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 3: faith in the surveillance state. I'm like, yo, in this country.

624
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: You know he had that one photo with his face down, Yeah,

625
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: allegedly whatever.

626
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: I think it's him, you do, Yeah, I mean, you

627
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: know why else would you release it?

628
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: Like it looks so different. He looks so different in

629
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: the different photos that they really.

630
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: That's what I mean.

631
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: Look, maybe's marrying different he was there for ten days

632
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: and marring different outfits.

633
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 5: I don't know.

634
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: The point is is, like I thought, you know who who.

635
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: If you've flown recently, actually, in some airports, you don't

636
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: even have a choice. They just you know, they take

637
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: a photo of your face and it's facial recognition. You

638
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: don't even give him your ID anymore. You just stand

639
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: in front of the camera and it's like boom. I've

640
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: boarded flights, particularly international flights, the couple of years.

641
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: You don't have a boarding pass.

642
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: You literally just go and they hit your face with

643
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: facial recognition, and they're like, oh, Zager and Jedty, you know,

644
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: twenty six e or something like that. So I'm in

645
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: my head, I'm like, okay, well you just take that

646
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: and you do facial recognition, you hit it across all

647
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: of the different driver's license photos just in the United

648
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: States or criminal database whatever. And I thought you'd be

649
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 3: apprehended the name, you know. I thought i'd be out

650
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: there within twenty four hours.

651
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: But I mean, I.

652
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: Guess maybe you know, either they do have that and

653
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: they're not telling us, or you know, even that photo

654
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: is not enough. You would assume too, that you would

655
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: leave fingerprints somewhere in a hostel or wherever you are

656
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: for ten days on a backpack, DNA, et cetera. But

657
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 3: I guess all of that will take some time. I mean,

658
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: I still remain like pretty, I still remain like pretty

659
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: skeptical that you're genuinely going to do walk free like

660
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 3: a member of the Weather Underground or something. I don't

661
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: not get apprehended for thirty years. I mean, remember, they

662
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 3: did get caught, you know, at the end of the day,

663
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: all of them did get caught. It took a while,

664
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: but I guess it could happen, you know, could happen.

665
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: The other thing is that, you know, the police really

666
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: rely to a significant extent on public cooperation, and you

667
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: know there has been some but like the hostel that

668
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: that he stayed at that you know, provided security camera

669
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: footage and like whatever, a lot of people are pissed

670
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: off of them for I mean, I think, what are

671
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: they gonna do like that?

672
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: You know you're gonna get a subpoena.

673
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, and there's all these communities on

674
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: TikTok that are organized around, like you know, helping to

675
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: sleuth out different crimes and like looking and trying to

676
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: find the clues and whatever, and they're like, no, we're

677
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: not helping with this one. So I'm sure that tip

678
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: hotline they put out has been flooded with all kinds

679
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: of nonsense, and you know which, if it's credible nonsense,

680
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: you still got to track it down, you still got

681
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: to chase it.

682
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: And so that.

683
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: Also makes it more difficult is to sort even if

684
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: they got a legitimate tip that actually could help them,

685
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: if it's also being flooded with you know a lot

686
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: of people who are not interested in helping or interested

687
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: in thwarting that can also make it much much more difficult.

688
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: At the same time, obviously, the cultural reaction has really continued.

689
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: It has been pretty astonishing how widespread the reaction to

690
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: this killing was. Bill bur comedian Bill Burr Took had

691
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: had his own commentary describing the CEO as effectively a gangster.

692
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to some of his take.

693
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 6: Oh, what's going on in New York?

694
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 11: We were just talking about that ceo got fucking whacked.

695
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude, you know what's funny.

696
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 6: I was gonna read an art. Cool guy. They like,

697
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 6: oh my god, he's such a great guy.

698
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 11: You had a you know, wife and kids, and he's

699
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 11: such a great guy. And then you find out he

700
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 11: and the other guys he's working for are getting sued

701
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 11: for one hundred and twenty one million dollars for dumping

702
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 11: a stock and not letting the other people know. It's like,

703
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 11: there's your motives. Nancy Pelosi just made nine million bucks

704
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 11: on some shit. The gangsters, dude, fucking gangsters. And then

705
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 11: one of them gets whacked or something.

706
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 6: They're like, oh, it look good. It was such a

707
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 6: good guy.

708
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 11: It's a dirty game pull healthcare, healthcare dirty game.

709
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: It is a dirty game. Hikes very true. This was

710
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 4: interesting too.

711
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: So there's been a corporate reaction also, a bunch of

712
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: healthcare companies and other Fortune five hundred companies have been

713
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: taking down their executive bio pages on a fear that

714
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: their executives could be targeted. There's been a major upsurgeon

715
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: interest in executive protection. I'm sure that business is thriving

716
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: today and this was interesting. So in the wake of

717
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: the killing of the CEO, people started sharing around the

718
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: fact that Anthem Healthcare was planning this change. We could

719
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen, this tear sheet. They've

720
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: been planning this change where they're going to put a

721
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: time limit on anesthesia and for most patients, if the

722
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: anesthesiologists went over the time limit, if your surgery so

723
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: you're knocked out, you have nothing to do with it.

724
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: If your surgery goes over how long they think it

725
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: should take, then they were going to mass deny those claims. So,

726
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: in the wake of this killing and more attention on

727
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: the depravity of the United It State's healthcare system, this

728
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: decision was something that people really picked up on and

729
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield said Okay, never mind, we

730
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: are not going to do this anymore. This plan was

731
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: supposed to go into effect in several states.

732
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 4: It wasn't a.

733
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: Nationwide change, it was just in a number of states.

734
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: And they've said, oh, well, there was disinformation spread about

735
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: what we were planning. So because of this disinformation, we're

736
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 2: going to back off of this particular change. But listen,

737
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 2: this is what health insurers do. The more care they deny,

738
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: the more money they make. So they seek all kinds

739
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: of ways to limit what they're going to you know

740
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: what claims they're going to accept, what they're going to

741
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: pay out, because the more that they do that, the

742
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: more that their profit margining creases.

743
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 4: That's just the fundamental dynamic.

744
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: I'm not going to white nighte for the healthcare company.

745
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 3: But I also want people to understand that this is

746
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 3: part of why the American healthcare system is so crappy,

747
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 3: is because the anesthetl There is actually decent evidence of

748
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: anesthesiologists being a It's a very.

749
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: High paid field, I'll put it that way.

750
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, their ability to control that and then also what

751
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: the government then reimburses them for as well as the

752
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: insurance companies, it helps right. Turns out at most antitheologists

753
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: are making like three hundred grand a year. So the

754
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 3: justification from the UH and I'm sure I'm gonna get

755
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: a ton of hate from the anesthesiologists, sorry, folks, but

756
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 3: the truth is is that you guys are wildly overpaid,

757
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: not just antheologists, all doctors. It's basically a cartel, and

758
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: so the American Medical Association has actively lobbied, you know,

759
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 3: to restrict the number of doctors there to artificially push

760
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: up the price. That works in conjunction with our insane

761
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: you know, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Anthem, almost other reimbursement.

762
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: So you basically have a ton of people. This is

763
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: like a mob war between two cartels. When, as you said,

764
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: the patient is what is supposed to matter. The guy

765
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: under the knife or the woman who is literally asleep

766
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 3: should not be subject to is this doctor possibly keeping

767
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 3: me under long enough just so he can make more money,

768
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: or is you know, it's it up to the insurance company.

769
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 3: It should literally just be about all of the health.

770
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 3: So again I'm not white nighting for the insurance company.

771
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 3: That was the justification though, that they had seen that

772
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 3: this was a systematic problem costing them money. But the whole,

773
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, the whole insanity of it is is that

774
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: the same procedure in so many other different countries, there

775
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: is no profit consideration in.

776
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: The entire well the operation.

777
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: You just do whatever you have to do or that

778
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: is the core of the problem. And the issue of

779
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: course with the approach they were taking is that it

780
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: ends up being the patient once again who gets screwed,

781
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: yeah you know, and who gets their claims denis now

782
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: stuck while they were under them and I had no

783
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: say over any of this. This is all happening while

784
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: they're literally knocked down, and now you're stuck with a

785
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: multi thousand dollars bill because your claim has been denied

786
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: because the surgery took longer than they expected. But you

787
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: are one hundred percent correct that the profit motive for

788
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: all of these actors, whether it's the hospitals or the

789
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: health insurers, or the pharmaceutical companies or any of these

790
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: different sort of mafia like cartels within our healthcare system,

791
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: that really is the root of the problem. I might

792
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: do a monologue on The New York Times had a

793
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: good piece about these methodone clinics, and I mean, it's

794
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: the same thing it's another part of our healthcare system,

795
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: and the same profit motives are applied there where you know,

796
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: they're supposed to be given counseling, they're buying large not

797
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: they're falsifying records, they're giving methodone to people who should

798
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: not be eligible to get methodone, who don't have who

799
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: may have a meth addiction or a non opioid addiction.

800
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: But you know, this is really meant for people who

801
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: are suffering with opioid addiction. But it's just like a

802
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: microcosm of the way that these disgusting profit motives should

803
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: not be at the core of our healthcare and it

804
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 2: leads to patients getting gouge and people getting sick, and

805
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 2: us having a disastrous life expectancy. I mean, this really

806
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 2: is kind of the root of the problem. So in

807
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: any case, the you know, thing that was significant here

808
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: with this particular decision was just how quickly they backed

809
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: off of it, given the climate, given the scrutiny right

810
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: now of the health insurance into story, and how the

811
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: how overwhelming the reaction was to the killing of the CEO. Meanwhile,

812
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: so United Health Group, the Brian Thompson.

813
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: Who is the CEO who was murdered. He was in

814
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 4: charge of the insurance portion.

815
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: There's a broader United Health group whose CEO put on

816
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: a series of videos for their internally. You could imagine

817
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: if you're own employee of the health insurance company, like,

818
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: what the hell is.

819
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 4: Going on right now?

820
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: So anyway, Ken Kleppenstein was leaked this video of the

821
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: United CEO's reaction and his presentation to internally to employees

822
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: where he's specifically here giving them some advice about how

823
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: to handle media inquiries, and the TLDR is he's like,

824
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: just avoid the media altogether.

825
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to how that went.

826
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 5: I'd like to give you a little bit of advice

827
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 5: around the media. You've seen a lot of media interest

828
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 5: in this situation, with a huge amount of misinformation and

829
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 5: frankly offensive communication. My strong advice and request to everybody

830
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 5: is just don't engage with the media. If you're approached,

831
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 5: I would recommend not responding and if necessary, simply refer

832
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 5: them to our own media organization. There's no value in

833
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 5: engaging with the media, and as you've seen, people are

834
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 5: writing things we simply don't recognize are aggressive, inappropriate, and disrespectful.

835
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 5: We've created a management structure to navigate through the period

836
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 5: that we're in, and that will focus on making sure

837
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 5: that we continue to communicate within the organization, just.

838
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: Like I am now, so you know, don't talk to

839
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 2: the media, don't communicate with them, etc. Ken has gotten

840
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 2: some leaks from employees at United Healthcare about how they're

841
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: processing all of this as well, and obviously was leaked

842
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 2: this particular communication. But you know, it must be pretty shocking, Sager,

843
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: if you are, especially an executive at one of these companies,

844
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 2: to really sit with this reaction, like, it must be

845
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: really quite a shocking thing to be held.

846
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: Well maybe, but also remember what his wife said. He's like, well,

847
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: there were some threats over denied coverage. I mean, you

848
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 3: and I don't see this, but you know, imagine being

849
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 3: on their side, you probably get heartfelt emails and threats

850
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 3: and stuff all the time. I mean, I know that

851
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: I know peripheral people in the healthcare industry, nurses, doctors,

852
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: et cetera. They rant about the insurance companies nonsolutely, But

853
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: then imagine me and they kick up their complaints to

854
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: their hospital administrators, who I'm assuming if they're not you know,

855
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 3: in collaboration, we say sometimes are kicking some of that

856
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 3: up to the insurance companies.

857
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, if anything.

858
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: Again, like I just explained with the doctors, this thing

859
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: is so screwed up that it's like so it's so

860
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 3: multi faceted. It's the insurance companies, it's the PBMs, it's

861
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: the drug companies, it's the doctors, it's the hospitals. And

862
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: you know, everyone wants to believe their sweet old doctor

863
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: is in their camp, and they probably are, but remember

864
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: they work for somebody too. You know, a lot of

865
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: these hospital companies, we covered a lot of this. Remember

866
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 3: during COVID, a lot of them are going bankrupt. Well

867
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: guess what happened. They all got rolled up into private

868
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 3: equity and now all those people work for a single conglomerate.

869
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: Apparently Stiller's been tracking a budget. The anesthesiologists go back

870
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: to that have been part of these pe private equity

871
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: roll ups as well, which means you know, and those

872
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 2: are you know, this is permanent capital is huge interest

873
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: in just gouging get everything they possibly can out of

874
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: these financial arrangements. And you know, it shouldn't be a

875
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: financial arrangement like other people in different countries where they

876
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: have single payer healthcare. I'm not saying it's perfect. I

877
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 2: know there are things they complain about and whish were

878
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: different as well. But they look at our system and

879
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 2: they're like, this is absolutely insane. Like if you're sick,

880
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: you just go to the doctor and you get the

881
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: that you need. And so yeah, when you put a

882
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: profit motive at the center of this, it becomes grotesque

883
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: and what you get out of it is profit for

884
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: a lot of like effectively leeches and people patients who suffer.

885
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: The same recorded message from that United CEO's name is

886
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: Andrew Whitty.

887
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 4: He also spoke to you know.

888
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 2: He was trying to pump up the reputation of United Healthcare,

889
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: which we had showed you before. Of all the health insurers,

890
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: they actually have the highest.

891
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: Claims denial rate.

892
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: They're being sued for using this algorithm, which according to

893
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: the lawsuit has a ninety percent error rate. So again

894
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: they're innovating in waste use technology to also deny claims

895
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: that patients need, you know, to be filled so that

896
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: they can get the care that they need. So in

897
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: any case, here is the CEO trying to pump up

898
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: their reputation and talk about what a great actor they

899
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: are in the space.

900
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

901
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 5: I'm sure everybody has been disturbed by the amount of

902
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 5: negative and in many cases vitriolic media and commentary that

903
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 5: has been produced over the last few days, particularly in

904
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 5: the social media environment, and I want to reassure you

905
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 5: of a few things. Firstly, we are going to continue

906
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 5: to make sure that we put patients, consumers, and members first,

907
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 5: as we always have done. The mission of this company

908
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 5: is truly to make sure that we help the system

909
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 5: improve by helping the experience for individuals get better and better.

910
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 5: There was nobody who did more to try and advance

911
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 5: that mission than Brian Thompson. And there are very few

912
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 5: people in the history of the US healthcare industry who

913
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 5: had a bigger positive effect on American healthcare than Brian.

914
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 5: And we are going to make sure that we not

915
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 5: only acknowledge and honor that legacy Brian, but will continue it.

916
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 5: Our role is a critical role, and we make sure

917
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 5: that care is safe, appropriate, and it's delivered when people

918
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 5: need it, and we guard against the pressures that exist

919
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 5: for unsafe care or for unnecessary care to be delivered

920
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 5: in a way which makes the whole system to complex

921
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 5: and ultimately unsustainable.

922
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: So kind of an interesting way of phrasing things there,

923
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: he says, we guard against unnecessary care. And listen to

924
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: your point, Sager, I'm sure there are instances where you know,

925
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: doctors are incentivized to send you for a bunch of

926
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: tasks that you don't necessarily need, or even a procedure

927
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: that you don't.

928
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 4: Oh well, you can ask god Senator Rick Scott about

929
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: that one.

930
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: But you know, they that's their sort of industry cope,

931
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: is that they are these guardians against you getting quote

932
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: unquote unnecessary care. But what he doesn't say is also

933
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: swept up in this very generous mission is also a

934
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 2: lot of actually necessary care that is also denied as

935
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: much as they possibly can in order to boost.

936
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: Their own well care denial and then also artificially artificial price.

937
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 3: Insulin is the best example. We talk about it here

938
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 3: about what the exact same dose, But insulin is the

939
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: easiest one to understand because a ton of people need it,

940
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 3: and the price here is insane compared to the rest

941
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 3: of the world. But it's the same for everything. Dialysis,

942
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 3: constive heart failure. Something like forty percent of the entire

943
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: federal budget is like not federal budget Medicare spending I

944
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: think is literally just dialysis and congestive heart failure, which

945
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 3: are obesity shocking, right, And it's like, oh, well, it's

946
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 3: interesting how there are certain things where obesity prints hundreds

947
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: of billions of dollars a year for a lot of

948
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 3: these places. And it's like, oh, it's very convenient to

949
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: keep the price up on dialysis and on a few

950
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: of these other drugs just to make sure that you're

951
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: printing on it.

952
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: It's just sick.

953
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: Well, there's no incentive for people to do well that

954
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: healthy people are not particularly profit you know, if they

955
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: don't have to seek care in these repeated treatments that

956
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: they can price gouge you on the other thing, that

957
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: somebody made this point online, which I thought was an

958
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: interesting one. They were like, you know, there's a reason

959
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: why these healthcare CEOs are not household names, why they

960
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: kind of try to keep a low profile, unlike a

961
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: lot of other sort of famous celebrity CEOs, including like

962
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: the heads of wool Street Banks, that Jamie Diamonds of

963
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: the world, et cetera, et cetera. And it speaks to

964
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: what you were saying, saga that on some level, they

965
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: do know that they are hated. They do know the

966
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 2: villainous place that they occupy, making millions of dollars a year,

967
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 2: profiting off of people's like illness, pain, bankruptcy, and death.

968
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: So so maybe you're right, maybe those executives aren't totally

969
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: shocked that this would be the mass public reaction. I mean,

970
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: I had to say even I was surprised at like

971
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: how widespread the reaction was.

972
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 4: And how significant it was.

973
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: And you know, I knew the amount of pain and

974
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: the health insurance system and the healthcare system in general,

975
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: but this, uh, this outpouring was quite something to see.

976
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe on some level they did understand.

977
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: What Yeah, I think are I mean, look, you know

978
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: with this guy too, it's clear like he is the joker.

979
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 3: I think he at a certain point, you know, he's

980
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 3: what he's scrawling things on bullet lips, monopoly money, like

981
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: he knew. I mean, maybe he was personally. In fact,

982
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: he could also literally just be some mercenary believer.

983
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 11: You know.

984
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not just buying any of this stuff, but like, uh,

985
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: it's clear that there was something happening within all of this.

986
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 3: And if he does get caught, you know, his trial.

987
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 3: I think I said it before, like that is going

988
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 3: to be the media event of the century in terms

989
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: of you know, his own defense and what that would

990
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 3: look like like you could you could see that becoming

991
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: like an absolutely cultural sensation.

992
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 4: Trump, Oh my god, it would be insane.

993
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: It will be insane if they catch.

994
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: Me completely and you only need one dror to be like,

995
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm not right.

996
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: I saw Ryan say that.

997
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 3: He's like, if I were him, I would just turn

998
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: myself in just like put myself on trial by I mean,

999
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 3: I don't know the same time, like you even see

1000
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 3: people who are like parents of you know, parents of

1001
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 3: like rape victims will still get convicted whenever they acted.

1002
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 3: But I mean that jury instructions are very narrow. It's

1003
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 3: like did you commit the crime or not. It's not

1004
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 3: really up to like whether it was justified.

1005
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Jerry, and nullification is a thing, so

1006
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: the power Like Nope, I'm not going along with this.

1007
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 2: But if I do think Rind's point, if he is,

1008
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: if he's truly what she seems like, committed to the cause,

1009
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 2: that would be the next way the narrative right forward,

1010
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: especially if he isn't just like you know, a vigilante

1011
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: out to avenge others, but has his own personal story

1012
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: of pain suffering, you know, debt, bankruptcy, whatever it is.

1013
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: Then yeah, you're right, it would be it would be something.

1014
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: It would be something.

1015
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: Let's get to milk.

1016
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, so there is a bird flu situation unfolding

1017
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: amidst our nation's dairy herds and a new development that

1018
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: is quite significant. So this story is important for a

1019
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: number of reasons. We could put this up on the screen,

1020
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: but the US Department of Agriculture just ordered testing across

1021
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 2: the nation's milk supply effectively. What has happened here, and

1022
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: part of why this is so important is we've known

1023
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: for a while now that bird flu had jumped to

1024
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: these dairy cow herds, started apparently in Texas. There was

1025
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 2: a push among a lot of experts at that point

1026
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: to quarantine and make sure these cows were not being

1027
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: shipped across state lines. But the USDA, and especially the

1028
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: current head of the USDA under Biden Vilsack's very close

1029
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 2: it used to be a lobbyist for the dairy industry,

1030
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: so there was a priority put on continuing dairy industry

1031
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: profits at the time, and Also, there were a lot

1032
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 2: of fears of talking about a new pandemic, which is

1033
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: a real present risk with the possibility of this bird

1034
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 2: flu mutating enough so that it can sign infect humans

1035
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 2: and travel through human to human contact. So nobody wanted

1036
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: to talk about another pandemic. Nobody wanted to disrupt the

1037
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: dairy industry profits, so they delayed, and they delayed, and

1038
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 2: they delayed. Now there is a massive spread of this flu,

1039
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: especially throughout the West coast. So let me just read

1040
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: you a little bit about this. So they say this

1041
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: flu virus has been raising alarm since it was detected

1042
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: in a.

1043
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 4: Texas cow back in March.

1044
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 2: Since then, the virus has spread to over seven hundred

1045
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: and ten dairy herds that we know of across fifteen states.

1046
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: California has the highest number of infections. You also have

1047
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: a number of people fifty eight who have been infected

1048
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: with bird flu. Now, the overwhelming majority of those it's

1049
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: because they've come in direct contact with these animals or

1050
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: with the milk. The new federal order is going to

1051
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: allow regulators to test the bulk milk pools before they're pasteurized,

1052
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: so they can get a better sense of which herds

1053
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 2: are infected and moved to quarantine and try to get

1054
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: this thing under control. The program's launching first in California

1055
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: and Colorado, Michigan, Mississippi, Oregon, and Pennsylvania. Those are the

1056
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: states that have apparently been most impacted. They say the

1057
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: risks are not entirely clear, but scientists do say it's

1058
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: possible consuming infected milk could lead to an infection, but

1059
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: pasteurized milk remains safe to drink.

1060
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 4: That's with regards to raw milk.

1061
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: There was a raw milk batch that tested positive for

1062
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 2: bird flu which was recalled, and the bird flu virus

1063
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: stays in much larger and more significant quantities in the

1064
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: raw milk. There are no known cases that have been

1065
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 2: transmitted that way, but they're concerned that it could be possible,

1066
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 2: so that was the reason for issuing that mass recall.

1067
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: We could put this next piece up on the screen.

1068
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 2: This is about the risk of a potential pandemic. This

1069
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: is znap Tefecki writing The New York Times before this

1070
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 2: order was issued, which she has said has come.

1071
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 4: Basically, you're too late.

1072
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: They should have been doing this a lot earlier, to

1073
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: be a lot easier, a lot less onerous to stop

1074
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: the spread at this point among our nation's dairy cows.

1075
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 2: In any case, she says that this avian flu, having

1076
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 2: mutated its way across species, is already raging out of control.

1077
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: It's infected roughly a third of the dairy herds in

1078
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: California alone. Farm Workers have so far avoided tragedy as

1079
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: the virus has not yet acquired the genic tools to

1080
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 2: spread among humans, but seasonal flu will vastly increase the

1081
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: chances of that outcome as the colder weather drives. Is

1082
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: all endoors to our poorly ventilated houses and workplaces will

1083
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: be undertaking, and extraordinarily gamble that the nation is in

1084
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 2: no way prepared for. Some of the things that have

1085
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: been very concerning is there's an infected child in California

1086
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: who is not known to have come into contact with

1087
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: any sick animals at all. So there is a possibility

1088
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: that the virus is already spreading from human to humans

1089
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 2: since this child was not in contact with any sick animal.

1090
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 2: And then the last piece here, Sagarin gets your reaction

1091
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: is is we can put this up on the screen.

1092
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: So this is the raw milk brand that was recalled

1093
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: because bird flu.

1094
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 4: Was found in it.

1095
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 2: He might be picked for an FDA role they've asked

1096
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: him to apply as a quote raw milk advisor. He

1097
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: says that this recall is political, but you know, I'm

1098
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: convinced that the risks here of bird flu spreading significantly

1099
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 2: and mutating into a form where it could be passed

1100
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 2: and transmitted human to human is a significant enough risk that,

1101
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, taking these precautions. Honestly, they should have been

1102
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: taken quite a while before so that they could have,

1103
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, avoided this dangerous moment that we're in now.

1104
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so based on upon my reading and

1105
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: my general perusal, there's a lot of skepticism I would

1106
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 3: say within the raw milk community and in terms of

1107
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: the like ant Cavodi Antikavidians who are very skeptical of this.

1108
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: They think that it's like planned or whatever. I don't

1109
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 3: know enough to be honest, and like, this is part

1110
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 3: of the issue with the fallout from COVID. Is like

1111
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: anytime somebody's warning me about a pandemic, I'm like, well,

1112
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 3: so we'll see, let's see how it works out first,

1113
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 3: And you know, especially like, okay, so it's no human

1114
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: to human transmission right so far? What is it it's

1115
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 3: like four dairy cows, ten from poultry.

1116
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, there's like seven hundred and ten herds.

1117
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: A third of the herds in California have been infected.

1118
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 3: Oh, I apologize, this is old. This is from August ninth.

1119
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: I thought it was from December ninth, which is the

1120
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 3: day that we're talking about. That's right, seven hundred and

1121
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 3: twenty six herds here. It is seven hundred and twenty herds,

1122
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 3: fifteen different states. No one has yet been known to

1123
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 3: become ill from drinking raw milk. The virus has now

1124
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 3: been detected in these herds. Yeah, but now in terms

1125
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 3: of the quote unquote jump the human human transmission, the

1126
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 3: possible cases here with.

1127
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: A child's that's right.

1128
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so the worry is, you know, there's no proof.

1129
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: Or evidence that child it was a human in human transmission,

1130
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: but the child was not known to have come in

1131
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: contact with a sick animal, so that's where the concern raises.

1132
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 2: And there was also a pig that was infected, apparently

1133
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: because pigs are similar to humans, it's like less of

1134
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: a jump, et cetera. So I think the real story

1135
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 2: here is actually the opposite. They should have taken a

1136
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,479
Speaker 2: lot more precautions more quickly, just in terms of doing

1137
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: the testing that they're doing now. You know, there was

1138
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: a decision that was made a while back. These cows

1139
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: are shipped across state lines all the time to you know,

1140
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: be milked or be bred or whatever, or be slaughtered.

1141
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 2: And there was a decision that was made quite a

1142
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: while ago after they knew that there was you.

1143
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 4: Know, this was spreading.

1144
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 2: This bird flu was spreading in dairy cows, which again

1145
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: it's a bird flu, so already it's made the leap

1146
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: into infecting cows and spreading wildly among cows. There was

1147
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: a decision that was made to say you can still

1148
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: ship these cows across state lines, and that is what

1149
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 2: fueled this broader spread, and of course the war spread,

1150
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: you have the more potential combinations. So because the USDA

1151
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: was too tied and too close to the dairy industry,

1152
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 2: they didn't take some of the things that could have

1153
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: just like nip this in the bud early on. So

1154
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: in any case, it's something to watch. I agree with

1155
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 2: your general point that like God for we have another

1156
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: actual pandemic because people are not going to believe anything

1157
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 2: because I mean, any of the like past you know,

1158
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: mistakes that were made, and also the way it just

1159
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: became this, you know, it became this mass cultural divide.

1160
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 2: So right now they're just basically hoping that the you know,

1161
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: the genetic recombination doesn't happen that allows it to significantly

1162
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: spread amongst humans, And it doesn't appear that that's happened yet,

1163
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 2: although the sick child is a reason for concern.

1164
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, there's weird.

1165
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: In no way prepared to deal with another pandemic, either

1166
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: from a cultural or from a medical perspective.

1167
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely not zero, there's zero trial.

1168
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 3: I mean even like my default position is like yeah,

1169
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 3: maybe you know, we'll I mean, that's the thing. I

1170
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 3: hate to say it, but based upon COVID and all

1171
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 3: the other things I want people to.

1172
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: Think of, there was a mental exercise.

1173
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: How many people, how many people would have to be

1174
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 3: proven sick for you to put on a mask again?

1175
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 3: For me, the numbers high, very high. For me to

1176
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: be flying sixteen hours on a plane with a mask

1177
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: again and getting tut tutted or whatever walking around outside

1178
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 3: like I will have to see.

1179
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 4: You know, the mask whatever. I don't really.

1180
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: Told what to do. The part that.

1181
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: Would the part that I would be very, very very

1182
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: I think I would just resist is the shutting down

1183
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 2: of the school. Oh shutting down that was to me,

1184
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 2: you know, obviously in retrospect, that was the wrong call

1185
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: and was you know, really damaging to kids in terms

1186
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 2: of their learning outcomes, and especially with COVID, which we

1187
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: knew pretty quickly was not really infecting kids, or it

1188
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: was infecting kids, but it wasn't making them, you know,

1189
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: sick to the point of death in almost all cases.

1190
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: So you know, obviously contours of a different disease you

1191
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: have to evaluate what that looks like. But that's the

1192
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: one where I would be very, very reluctive on.

1193
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: In fact, my SAT was actually canceled. I remember I

1194
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: was panicked because of H.

1195
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: One N one, which is so is the different this

1196
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 3: is H five N one was also bird flu, if

1197
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 3: I recall or no, that was swine flu. That's where

1198
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 3: it was swind This was like.

1199
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 2: To Obama Obama era. That was yeah, H five N

1200
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: one av in flu.

1201
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, H five and one has hit Asia before.

1202
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: I'm not sure we've ever had a full blown bird flu,

1203
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 3: and I think.

1204
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 2: It's correct that this is the first time that we've

1205
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,439
Speaker 2: seen it spread to cows is one of the things

1206
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: that I read. So in any case, I just wanted

1207
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: to highlight it as something that is out there that

1208
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 2: is a question mark for the future and could not

1209
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: have really any impact on all of our lives and

1210
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 2: could have agatical.

1211
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 3: Because then also think about all of the chaos first

1212
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 3: six months of it in mission. I mean, that's what

1213
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 3: the conspiracy theorists say. They're like, oh, pandemic, just right

1214
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 3: on time to destroy Trump's presence.

1215
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 4: Well, this has been but this has been spreading for

1216
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 4: a while.

1217
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I agree with you, but like, even

1218
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 3: if it's not called plandemic or whatever like, it still

1219
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 3: could be like a political catastrophe. Oh in terms of

1220
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: what and how people would have. Again, like my default

1221
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 3: on this is like prove it. You know, you need

1222
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 3: to prove that it's going to be on the shadow

1223
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 3: of a doubt if you want me to change my

1224
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 3: life like five percent, because as we learned last time,

1225
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 3: it's like, well, you start to give up a lot

1226
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 3: based upon a lot of shoddy in for me, and

1227
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 3: those things start to get it takes years to get

1228
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 3: pulled back, and there's no recriminations and how Fauci may

1229
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 3: g it apart in or whatever. I'm like, look hold

1230
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 3: on a second here, like you know, prove it. I

1231
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 3: don't necessarily disagree with what you said, Yeah, Phil Slack.

1232
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: And thus I was going to say, I think the

1233
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,959
Speaker 2: real conspiracy, that's the real conspiracy, is the open one

1234
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 2: of like we'd rather just keep the profits flowing and

1235
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 2: ignore this and do what the dairy producers want, then

1236
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: to nip it.

1237
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 4: In the butt.

1238
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: And if it does, if it does develop into you know,

1239
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: something that can spread human and human and becomes a

1240
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: significant impact, you know, even if it's not, even if

1241
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 2: it's relatively mine, it just means more people getting sick.

1242
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: When you have vulnerable people, you know, some percentage of

1243
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: them will become sick enough to.

1244
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 4: Have their health run.

1245
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: And in fact, there's already a Canadian who is you know,

1246
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 2: really quite ill, in serious critical condition from this. So

1247
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 2: in any case, even if it's just at that level,

1248
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 2: the decisions to point back to will be the ones

1249
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 2: made under the Biden administration to just kind of like

1250
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: letter rip rather than nipping it in the bud.

1251
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 4: Early on, before there was any real risks.

1252
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 2: So to mean, that's the out and the open conspiracy

1253
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: is around the profit a big egg and the profit

1254
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: margins and incentives there.

1255
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 3: Sure definitely remember you have something in common with the

1256
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 3: raw milk people. They hate, they hate big agg just

1257
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 3: oh everybody else.

1258
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they blame them for keeping them down. Can

1259
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: I just say a long time.

1260
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: Let me just state my position. I think milk in

1261
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: general is disgusting. I don't drink I think milk is like,

1262
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 2: I think it's gross. I think it tastes gross. I

1263
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: think thinking about where it comes from is gross. Like

1264
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 2: I'm just not a milk person in general. So then

1265
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 2: the idea of we're going to make it even more

1266
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: like close to just like coming out of the cows.

1267
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 3: Utter No, but that's more that's how you should drink it.

1268
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 3: So I say, I would flip it around on you.

1269
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 3: I don't want any of it. I think it's gross

1270
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 3: to like go to the grocery store and look at

1271
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 3: the additives for all this like.

1272
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: Dh O mega three blah blah blah, all this other

1273
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: stuff in milk. I'm like, is it milk?

1274
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 5: Like?

1275
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: What? What? What is that? Like?

1276
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 3: How does that even get to where we are now?

1277
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I get it a typocritical. I'm sure

1278
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 3: I eat a lot of other things, a lot of

1279
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 3: different additives, but like milk in particular, whereas if it

1280
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 3: comes straight out of a copy way more likely to

1281
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 3: drink it.

1282
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: I've had it straight from the goat.

1283
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: Fallacy to think that just because it's like quote more natural,

1284
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 2: that it's better for.

1285
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 4: You people are drink bought milk.

1286
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a reasonable risk to take. It's

1287
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: probably it's probably less risky than eating like raw oysters

1288
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: and stuff.

1289
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 4: If I had to guess, it's probably less risky than that.

1290
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 2: And to your point, there's no proof that even drinking

1291
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: H five and one infected raw milk.

1292
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 4: You're gonna get sick gives you Yeah, we'll.

1293
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 2: Get you sick. Now, it's a risk. They're worried that

1294
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 2: it could, but there is no proof that it does

1295
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: at this point. There are no documented cases of that.

1296
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: So to your point, but yeah, I am just not

1297
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 2: really a milkerson.

1298
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 3: Let me put in a word for goat milk. I

1299
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 3: actually think goat milk is good. I've had some raw

1300
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:46,919
Speaker 3: goat milk and I've like, straight out of the goat.

1301
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: It was good, man, it was I love dairy praut. Yeah,

1302
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 2: but the actual like just milk of any part.

1303
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: I've had milk straight from the cow. It was I mean,

1304
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: it was not bad. You know.

1305
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: It's interesting too because it doesn't come out cold, which

1306
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 3: is crazy thing to say, but most people are like,

1307
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 3: you know, used to drink cold milk from a fridge.

1308
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 3: When you drink milk from an animal, it's warm.

1309
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: Actually. Anyway, I like goat milk. I like goat cheese.

1310
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 3: I actually prefer more like goat based products than I

1311
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 3: do cow milk.

1312
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other.

1313
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 2: The other thing, the other this is just random, but

1314
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 2: the other common American food product I find revolting as Ketchup.

1315
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: Ketchup.

1316
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 4: I hate Ketchup.

1317
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 2: My kids ruined ketchup for me. I don't want the

1318
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 2: amount that they wanted to eat when they were little

1319
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: and like dip their apples in it, and someone's like, oh, oh,

1320
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: I can't.

1321
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 3: I recommend leaving the United States and then try and ketchup,

1322
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: because what you understand is that our ketchup is basically

1323
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 3: sugar water like sugar and tomato. Where when you eat ketchup,

1324
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 3: like in India or any of these other Indian Ketchup

1325
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 3: it's good, it's it's spicy, and you know it has

1326
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 3: no sugar, which turns out it's like everything in our

1327
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: country has sugar.

1328
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other story.

1329
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 3: In fact, though, people in Asia, though they go to

1330
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 3: McDonald's or other places just to be able to eat.

1331
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: Hindz Amer because they think it tastes way better. I'm like,

1332
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: you have no idea.

1333
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 2: See, when I was in India, it was before I

1334
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: developed my ketchup or Vulture, and I definitely wanted the

1335
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: Heinz ketchup.

1336
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 5: Not that.

1337
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean that's the points our hyper palette,

1338
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 3: you know, hyper palatable sugar and all this other crap.

1339
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 3: So anyway, live more like a live more like an Asian,

1340
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 3: you'll be better off.