WEBVTT - The Manhattan Grid 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:12.840 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.840 I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.120 this is Stuff You Should Know another in our Endless 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.119 Annals of New York City edition. That's right. Uh, this 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:29.960 is pretty interesting episode, I think. And my favorite part 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.120 about it this was Dave rus Are one of our writers. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.559 I'll put this together and Dave, Uh, it's clearly annoyed 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.120 about this whole thing, And I think it's hysterical how 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:48.000 many times he gets annoyed by the laziness of the commission. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:50.479 I have to say I agree with Dave two. I 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.600 was annoyed by it as well. I think, yeah, it's 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.480 it's always annoying when you see somebody like have a 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.760 great opportunity and just pee it away, you know what 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.520 I'm mean. Yeah, And we should also point out Dave 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.240 got a lot of his information from a really wonderful 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.319 book called A City on a Grid colon How New 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:16.360 York Became New York by Gerald Uh Keppel, not Gerald McCraney. 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.240 Different Gerald, right or is it Copple? I think it's Keppel. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.800 If it's Koe. That's what I was going with, was Keppel. Yeah, 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.880 I'm gonna get this book though. This is uh, this 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.720 is right at male because you know, I'm obsessed with 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.520 the history and the sort of formation of New York 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.520 City as we know it today. Yeah, where'd you get 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.760 the idea for this episode? Just my constant desire to 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:42.480 learn about Mannahatta and how that became eventually Manhattan that 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.399 we know and love. I'm just fascinated by. I love it. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.440 I love everything about it. This is definitely a big 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.560 chapter in it because what we're talking about is the 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:54.000 plan called the Commissioner's Plan of eighteen eleven that basically 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.800 laid out Manhattan as we know and understand and love 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.080 it today. Everything north of Austin Street, I should say. Yeah, 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:07.040 And here's sort of a quick primer is Manhattan above 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:12.000 Houston is almost a perfect grid. Um Broadway kind of 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.799 screws everything up, but you know, great Street, but it's 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.200 it's just broadways, Like I'm not following any rules, so 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.880 I'm going to confuse people. But aside from that, it's 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.160 it's pretty much a grid of eleven numbered avenues that 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:30.000 run north to south generally speaking. Then you've got Lexington 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.359 Park and Madison Avenues and then two hundred and this 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.080 was at the time numbered streets running roughly east to west. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.600 And if you want to get a little more granular 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:47.400 than that, um, the southernmost street in the East Villages 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.079 East first, as you would imagine, the northernmost is two 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.600 D Street as we live in Breathe today and in 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.120 wood Well, that's on the island technically in Manhattan, And 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.120 if you're talking about the borough, it goes up to 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.040 two hundred and twenty seven, I believe, right, And if 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.280 you want to go through the Bronx, you go all 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.320 the way up to to sixty three. Man, that's crazy. Um, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.160 you've got so many streets. That's so many streets. You've 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.960 got a two hundred and sixty streets. You've got an 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.359 east and West signifier which says and this is sort 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.800 of a dummies guy to getting around New York for 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.240 the first time too. If you broke your smartphone, and 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:31.800 you also don't want to walk around just staring at 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.880 your smartphone the whole time, No, you're gonna miss a lot. Yeah, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.400 so try and get a little into it a field, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.000 because it's really easy to get around. If you know 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.000 this stuff, um, east and west will signify whether you're 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:47.000 in east or west of Fifth Avenue. And then uh, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.400 here's a little trick to odd numbers street. Uh, streets 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:56.560 run west, even numbers streets run east. So if you 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.600 come out of a subway and you and you know 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.360 which a north, south, east and west are, then you 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.840 will never do the thing that I always do and 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.760 walk in the wrong direction trying to go up or down. Yeah, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.080 because that's the thing. Like, if you know what direction 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.040 you're facing, and you know where you're trying to go 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.520 and where you are right now, you can basically make 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.160 make your way anywhere in Manhattan above. Yeah. And if 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.680 you're like me and you have no idea ever what's north, south, 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.720 east and west? And you either I had an easy 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.680 time in l A because l A has uh the sun, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.720 well they have they have that, but they also have 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.839 um geographical landmarks that make it super easy to tell 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.800 which way north and like the Hollywood Sign and the 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.880 hills and stuff like that. Is that real? Is the 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:50.840 Hollywood Sign real? What do you mean? Is it real? Okay? Um? 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.040 So that makes a lot easier in New York when 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.719 I come out there, all those big tall buildings. I 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.600 never know. I can never come out and say like, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.799 well that's north. Um. But if you know that stuff, 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.479 and you know that the even numbered streets run east 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:07.400 the odd ones run west, then you can you won't 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.800 walk in the wrong direction for a block and then 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.479 get there like I do and go, oh, we should 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:13.640 have gone the other way. Yeah, because depending on what 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.640 direction you're walking, if you're walking north or south, going 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.719 the wrong direction and a block isn't that bad. But 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.839 if you're going east or west, it's real bad because 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.160 very long blocks going east to west. And that's all 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.479 part of that Commissioner's plan that was laid out in 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.160 eighteen eleven. And on the one hand, you know, we've 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.480 kind of hit upon the pros and the cons of it. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.080 That it's easy to get around, which is really saying 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.320 something because New York is absolutely huge. But you could 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.200 make it from one end to the other without a map, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.560 just knowing that that it's on a grid and how 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.240 the grids laid out, um, even roughly. But the problem 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.840 is it's on a grid, and a grid is one 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.800 of the least organic shapes around and because this grid 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.640 stretches over almost all of Manhattan. Most of Manhattan for sure. UM, 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.560 it's viewed by a lot of people is kind of 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.320 soulless and canyon esque because you're just totally surrounded almost 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.120 constantly by big, imposing buildings, all at these right angles, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.159 which it feels like a very built environment. UM. And 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.040 until Central Park came along, which we did an episode 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.920 on in what the eighteen fifties or sixties like that 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:25.920 was it? That was New York. There was nothing but 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.200 that built environment. I got a few more of my things, Okay, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.160 let's have them. But uh, Manhattan's about thirteen and a 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.560 half miles long. And then so this grid makes sense. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.400 But then once you get north of fifty ninth Street, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.480 you start to get like Atlanta does, and a road 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.680 will just change names out of nowhere. Atlanta is very 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.120 famous for that, and people get very confused. Here. It's 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.200 very confusing also because the road will will change names, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.520 but one of the names, Peachtree, will still be there, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.320 but it's a totally different street and it does not 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:02.200 help things. That's right, So north fifty nine UM avenues 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.279 on the west side change names, but avenues on the 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.719 east side do not. So eight becomes Central Park West 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:13.640 ninth becomes Columbus Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue, and eleventh becomes 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.480 West End Avenue. What about Avenue of the America's well, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.880 that's sixth, right or is that seventh? Oh man? I thought, 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.920 I think it's sixth. I think, but that's really not 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.880 a name change. That's just that's something that that tourists 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.240 call it, right. I remember you making fun of me 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.480 when I call it that? Did I really? Yeah? That 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.640 sounds a good right, it was really jarring. Uh. And 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:41.960 then to get people really confused between third and fifth Avenue, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:46.200 there are three avenues, uh, instead of what you would 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.360 think would be one, because Lexington Park and Madison fall 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.480 between those YEA, and then south of twenty three you've 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.240 got your lettered avenues A, B, C, and D, which 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.040 is alphabet city. So you would need to have to 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.280 pull out a map. You just have to stand in 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.239 the middle of New York and listen to the first 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.000 like ten minutes of this episode, and you'll find your way, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.720 no problem. All right? Should we get into this? He said, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.440 people don't like the grid. There are there are a 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.840 lot of people. Um, I mean, what did Walt Whitman 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.000 call it? Uh? Icky? I think now I think he 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.800 said he called he called it one perpetual dead flat Yeah, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.240 and streets cutting each other at right angles are certainly 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.560 the last things in the world consistent with beauty of situation. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.280 How about this one from Edith Wharton Rectangular New York. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.960 This cramped horizontal gridiron of a town without towers, porticos, fountains, 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:45.760 or perspectives, hide bound in its deadly uniformity of mean ugliness. Yeah, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.480 I like hide bound. That's great. That's a great word. 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:53.600 And mean ugliness definitely captures like a certain sense of 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:58.520 New York, depending on your your mood or mindset, you know. Um. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.400 There's one a guy named Peter Mark Huse who's an 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.520 architecture critic. He said that the grid layout of Manhattan 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.600 was one of the worst city plans of any major 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.800 city in the developed countries of the world. Right, but 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.600 some people love it. Some people said it was pragmatic. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.160 Some people said it really accommodated for the one thing 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.000 it needed to accommodate for, which was massive growth. Uh. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.760 Let me see here. An architect named Raphael Vin Vinoly 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.920 who was I think a modern architect. Not modern, I 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.040 just mean current architect, but he may do modern work, 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.560 you knows. Uh. He said, the grid is the best 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:42.400 manifestation of American prag mattism, pragmatism in the in the 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:48.240 creation of urban form. And then in Dutch architect name 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.720 rim Cool has said that the grid was the most 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.280 courageous act of prediction in Western civilization, clearly talking about 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:01.400 the the growth. Yes, but a courage this act. That's 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.360 like architect talk, right that right there. So, but for 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.320 the most part, from what I understand, and definitely Dave 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.680 says the same thing. Um, most New Yorkers, especially born 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.680 and raised New Yorkers, we're not happy that that's how 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.240 their city is laid out. That there's a lot of 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.800 room for improvement. Yeah, your experience too, sure, I mean 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.560 Central Park is great. But you know, as we'll find out, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.920 they did not, uh they doesn't didn't really plan for 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.079 green spaces, and New York has done their best to 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.520 kind of carve them out since then. But you know, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.680 let's let's get into this commission. Well, let's talk about 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.200 grids first. Do you want to Yeah, all right, do 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:40.839 you want to take a break and then talk about 0:10:40.920 --> 0:11:06.320 the grid story? Yes? Uh? So New York didn't invent 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.280 the grid. As much as they liked to boast that 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.280 they did, they did not. In fact, a grid layout 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:16.240 of a city. Um. Goes back to that Indus Valley 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.360 civilization that for some reason keeps popping up in the 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.439 last like year or so. I guess they're going to 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.679 make a comeback or something like that. But they've just 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.600 been coming out all over the place. Um. But one 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.679 of the what was it, chuck, was it? Did they 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.840 invent the zipper? I don't think it was a zipper? 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:39.040 What was indigo? There's been there's been a number of them. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.360 But anyway, about at least five thousand years ago, the 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.360 Indus Valley civilization was using the grid layout to create 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:51.640 Mohan Joe daro Um, which was a fifty acre city 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.760 on a grid. Um. And then shortly after that the 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.160 Greek said, I really like this. In fact, there's a 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:03.240 Greek um I think, or mathematician named Hippodamus who's known 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.480 as the father of city planning, and he was bully 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.480 for grids too. Yeah, if you have a grid that's 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:14.040 still these people still call that the Hippodamian plan, which 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.839 is kind of great all these years later to still 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.320 get recognized for your grid work. Yeah, if if you're 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.760 ever talking to somebody and they refer to a grid 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.200 as a Hippodamian plan, that person knows what they're talking about, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.960 or listens to this show that it's one in the 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.839 same basically, and you're going to say that, Uh, let 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.760 me see. The conquistadors of Spain, they kind of had 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.680 a habit of coming in conquering and then having their 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.480 template in place to create these grids um as what 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.120 they call the law of the Indies, and they would 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.080 sort of just come in, set up shop. You got 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.000 a town with a big central plaza and then a 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.920 grid surrounding that central plaza, right, and they they use 0:12:55.040 --> 0:13:00.200 that for everything from Lima to Los Angeles. Um. And 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.040 this took me back in my mind to uh, what 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.520 was the name of that colonial town in Guatemala that 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.040 we visited. Oh, yeah, I know, I know what you mean. 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.360 It was wonderful, driving me crazy, It really was wonderful. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.640 Was one of the most beautiful towns I've ever been in. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.360 But it had like a central plaza with a fountain. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.640 It was a much smaller town. But um, now that 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.520 I think about, it was laid out on a grid too, 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.360 and it was part of that law of the Indies 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.800 that you were mentioning that it was just like this 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.920 is how you build a town. And apparently the reason 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:37.400 that they they um used that that law like in 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.520 town after town after town, that they just basically took 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.480 over and said this is ours now it's Spain's. Is 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.640 applying a grid was um kind of a metaphor for 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:55.599 applying order and civilization to a formerly disordered in wild 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:02.080 indigenous you know town, which make sense from a colonizer's perspective, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.360 but I'm sure it sucked from the indigenous person's perspective 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.840 like everything else. Yeah, that's with this stupid right angle stuff. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.560 So New York City comes along. Um. Philadelphia had been 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.320 laid out in a grid by William Penn very deliberately though, um, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.560 and that grid was kind of roomy and spacious because 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.360 William Penn did not like the congestion of London. But again, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:33.640 Philly very much purposeful. Yeah, boy, d C has a 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.520 has a kind of a crazy grid. Yeah, but once 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.200 you understand it, it makes total sense. Numbers and letters 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.960 as in directions. Yeah, but it takes a little more. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.280 It takes more getting used to than New York to 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.200 from from my experience and what I understand, Yeah, for sure. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.440 So the Commissioner's Plan of eighteen eleven is really sort 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.880 of the demarcation point between what was first New York, 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.119 New Amsterdam and then what we now know as Manhattan. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.560 Because anyone who's ever seen almost said Games of New York, 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:11.200 Gangs of New York knows that those were crazy days 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.200 down there in Lower Manhattan and things just sort of 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.360 sprouted up organically from the river upward as far as 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.120 the layout and the design. Uh. And you know, you 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.840 can still feel that when you go down to Lower Manhattan, 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.800 which is why I love the villages. Now. I think 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.320 it's just I mean, I like the simplicity of the grid, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.960 But I think what I love about Lower Manhattan is 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.080 how organic it feels. It's a jumble, and I mean 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.360 it's a jumble for a reason because those streets largely 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:45.440 follow these original organic paths that the Dutch settlers and 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.400 earliest English settlers basically said, oh, we need to get 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.120 from the waterfront up you know, to the common lands 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.960 or whatever. Here's a good path. And this path happens 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.440 to meander around as salt marsh, and we avoid having 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.440 to go up a hill by going around this way, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.320 So it's kind of like meandering, and it's it's definitely 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.480 locked in time from those streets down there, and um, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.480 Lower Manhattan I like it too, but it is very 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.040 easy to be like, are are you sure we're going 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.520 in the right direction? Still, it's very easy to get 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.280 lost in those because it isn't at all a grid. Yeah. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.840 I've spent enough time in Lower Manhattan now to where 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.680 I can landmark it, like it's just familiar enough to 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.240 me to where I kind of know, like this block 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120 in that block, so I know where I'm going. Um, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.200 and you mentioned something important. I don't think we've even 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.800 kind of said that New York was not all this 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.280 just big, one, big flat slab thirteen miles long that 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.680 we love today because you can walk forever without ever 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.560 getting out of breath. Because it's not Seattle. Um. New 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.760 York was swamp land and it had hills and marshes 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.920 and creeks and rocks, and it was you know, it 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.360 was kind of wild East Coast territory. Yeah. And I 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.800 mean the reason that those marshes in the ponds and 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.320 hills and stuff aren't there anymore is because of this 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.119 eighteen eleven Commissioner's planing. It basically said tear it all down, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.760 fill it all in, build this over it. And they did. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.960 That's the most astounding thing is they did that. They 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.200 they you know, as we'll see, they passed a law 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.760 that basically said, we're gonna appoint a commission of three people. 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.640 They're going to come up with three people, and whatever 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.040 they come up with is law. It can't be challenged 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.920 in court, and we're not going to back up, back 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.280 it up and and change it in any way. And 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.119 they really didn't. As bad as the plan was, and 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.479 almost every way, they really stuck to it. But the 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.080 thing that struck me, I had no idea about this 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.040 UM was that the the eighteen eleven Commissioner's Plan was 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.800 just a rip off of another earlier surveying map that 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.440 basically provided the basis of this of the Commissioner's plan, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.199 not even the basis of it. They were like, oh, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.520 we'll take this as a starting point. They just said, 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.320 we'll take this print and put our names on it. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:07.919 And that's ultimately what happened. Yeah, So pre Revolutionary War UM, 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.840 most of Manhattan was in that lower third of the island, 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.040 and we got into big time debt because of the 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.119 Revolutionary War. And so the city said in the seventeen eighties, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.520 al right, here's what we gotta do. We owned tons 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:25.640 of land, publicly owned land, and all this marshy kind 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:30.680 of ready rocky pondi area. Um, it's not developed. Let's 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.840 sell the stuff off and make some dough. It's called 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.879 the common Lands, and we need somebody to get in 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.320 there and just sort of, you know, survey this and 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.280 plot it out out so we know exactly how to 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.720 best sell this. Yeah, so they hired a guy named 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.800 Kasimir Theodore Girk. That's how I'm going with this. Girk. 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.440 Sure it's not a cucumber, it's a gherkin. Do you 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.840 remember Mr Cabbagehead from Kids in the Um? Well this 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.120 had nothing to do with that, right right. Um. So this, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.879 this surveyor actually went through the common Lands like basically 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:10.920 what we understand is all of Manhattan between Houston and 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.040 North Harlem. He just went across and broke it into 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.240 five hundred acre parcels. He had a sixty six ft 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:23.040 chain on his um surveying poles, and so he said, well, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.000 I'll just use that as the basic measurement for the 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.920 widest streets. Sixty six ft is what it's going to be. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.040 I think he said five acre parcels. Weren't they five acre? 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.880 Oh yes, I'm sorry, it's a little bit of a difference. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.320 They were five acre parcels. So that's even more work. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.800 That's a hundred times more work than what I described. 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.960 That's right. So, um, he laid him out as a 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.119 grid because he wasn't like, this guy wasn't out to 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.639 say here's how Manhattan should be built, right right, this 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.919 is the best way to promote the future of growth 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.440 in Manhattan. No, that was not his charge. His charge 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.080 was like, hey, let's just to buy this stuff up 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.520 and sell it. Um. He had some interesting constraints. They 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.960 had to be five acres, they had to have a 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.240 central road that um all of these could sort of 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.320 access like fairly easily. And then he had the survey chain. 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.560 It's crazy to think about this was one of the 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.439 things that informed what is modern New York. His survey 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.479 chain was sixty six ft. So he said, all right, 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.399 that's how wide the road is. Yeah, exactly, So I 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.359 think that was like the the widest road, the central 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.359 access road. He called that one Middle and now I 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.879 believe that's fifth Avenue is Middle what was originally Middle 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.640 Road back in Yeah, that's adorable. So he carved this up, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.480 this place up into um into these plots that are 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:47.600 um two feet on the east and west boundaries of it, 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.959 so going up and down, running north south. But if 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:52.800 you're on the plot, it would be on the east 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.320 side of the plot, in the west side of the plot, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.119 if that was not confusing before it is now. And 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.879 then across Austar the width was nine twenty ft and 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.000 that was Those were the plots. He said, here you go, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:07.800 this is a there's a bunch of them up there. 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.199 But I've carved up all of these common lands and 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.439 you can start selling them if you want. Yeah. Did 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.240 you mention the names of the other two roads? Oh? Yeah, 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.320 he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna put two more in 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.919 of these sixty six ft wide roads, and uh, he 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.320 had some very clever names for them. Yeah. One was Middle, remember, 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.240 the one to the east he named East, and the 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.680 one to the west he named west. Yeah, which which 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.240 makes sense if you're looking at it from if you're 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.840 on the Middle Road to the east is the East 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.080 road to the west of the West Road, but they 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:44.600 run north south right, man, I hate directions. Uh, And 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.479 like you said, that was fifth in the center, so 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:51.720 that's now fourth, fifth and sixth or fourth Avenue, fifth 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:57.639 Avenue and the avenue. You know, you really not supposed 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.680 to say that. What a jerk. I believe that said that. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.520 Didn't say it like that, and you just you just 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.240 made sure that you wait until the crowd had gathered 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.960 and really late into me. I think I remember, was 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:12.520 that our first trip to New York? Probably? Yeah, probably, 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:14.800 That's funny. We've been back a couple of times since 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.200 then as a team. Huh. Yeah, I know, I've got 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.360 some really great memories of New York. I miss it. Yeah, 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:24.960 it's been a while. One. Well, we will see you again, Yes, 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.160 we will New York, don't you, at least I hope. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.880 So there are no guarantees, right, No, we will see 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.280 New York again. All right? So, uh do we take 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.320 another break? I feel like there's still a lot. There's 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.200 still a lot. We should keep going for now, I think. 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.040 All right. So in eighteen oh seven, this is when 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:43.679 the New York State Legislature said, you know what we 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.880 need to like, we're growing here. It's clear that this 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.160 southern tip of Manhattan is just the beginning. So they 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.159 passed a bill that they described as an Act of 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:58.200 relative and Act relative to improvements touching uh the laying 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.080 out of the streets and roads in the City of 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.160 New York and for other purposes, right, which made sense. 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.800 But like I said, that this law, they decided to 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:12.320 just vest absolute authority into these three commissioners and said, 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.520 we're going to follow whatever they come up with, whatever 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.200 they that seems to them most conducive to public good. 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:21.119 We're just going to take on its face that it 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.200 is most conducive to public good and just go with it. 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:27.399