1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: this is Stuff You Should Know another in our Endless 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Annals of New York City edition. That's right. Uh, this 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting episode, I think. And my favorite part 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: about it this was Dave rus Are one of our writers. 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: I'll put this together and Dave, Uh, it's clearly annoyed 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: about this whole thing, And I think it's hysterical how 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: many times he gets annoyed by the laziness of the commission. 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: I have to say I agree with Dave two. I 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: was annoyed by it as well. I think, yeah, it's 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: it's always annoying when you see somebody like have a 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: great opportunity and just pee it away, you know what 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm mean. Yeah, And we should also point out Dave 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: got a lot of his information from a really wonderful 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: book called A City on a Grid colon How New 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: York Became New York by Gerald Uh Keppel, not Gerald McCraney. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: Different Gerald, right or is it Copple? I think it's Keppel. 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: If it's Koe. That's what I was going with, was Keppel. Yeah, 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this book though. This is uh, this 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: is right at male because you know, I'm obsessed with 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: the history and the sort of formation of New York 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: City as we know it today. Yeah, where'd you get 25 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: the idea for this episode? Just my constant desire to 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: learn about Mannahatta and how that became eventually Manhattan that 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: we know and love. I'm just fascinated by. I love it. 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: I love everything about it. This is definitely a big 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: chapter in it because what we're talking about is the 30 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: plan called the Commissioner's Plan of eighteen eleven that basically 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: laid out Manhattan as we know and understand and love 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: it today. Everything north of Austin Street, I should say. Yeah, 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: And here's sort of a quick primer is Manhattan above 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: Houston is almost a perfect grid. Um Broadway kind of 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: screws everything up, but you know, great Street, but it's 36 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: it's just broadways, Like I'm not following any rules, so 37 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to confuse people. But aside from that, it's 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: it's pretty much a grid of eleven numbered avenues that 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: run north to south generally speaking. Then you've got Lexington 40 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: Park and Madison Avenues and then two hundred and this 41 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: was at the time numbered streets running roughly east to west. 42 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: And if you want to get a little more granular 43 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: than that, um, the southernmost street in the East Villages 44 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: East first, as you would imagine, the northernmost is two 45 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: D Street as we live in Breathe today and in 46 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: wood Well, that's on the island technically in Manhattan, And 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: if you're talking about the borough, it goes up to 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty seven, I believe, right, And if 49 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: you want to go through the Bronx, you go all 50 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: the way up to to sixty three. Man, that's crazy. Um, 51 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: you've got so many streets. That's so many streets. You've 52 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: got a two hundred and sixty streets. You've got an 53 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: east and West signifier which says and this is sort 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: of a dummies guy to getting around New York for 55 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: the first time too. If you broke your smartphone, and 56 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: you also don't want to walk around just staring at 57 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: your smartphone the whole time, No, you're gonna miss a lot. Yeah, 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: so try and get a little into it a field, 59 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: because it's really easy to get around. If you know 60 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: this stuff, um, east and west will signify whether you're 61 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: in east or west of Fifth Avenue. And then uh, 62 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: here's a little trick to odd numbers street. Uh, streets 63 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: run west, even numbers streets run east. So if you 64 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: come out of a subway and you and you know 65 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: which a north, south, east and west are, then you 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: will never do the thing that I always do and 67 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: walk in the wrong direction trying to go up or down. Yeah, 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: because that's the thing. Like, if you know what direction 69 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: you're facing, and you know where you're trying to go 70 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: and where you are right now, you can basically make 71 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: make your way anywhere in Manhattan above. Yeah. And if 72 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: you're like me and you have no idea ever what's north, south, 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: east and west? And you either I had an easy 74 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: time in l A because l A has uh the sun, 75 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: well they have they have that, but they also have 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: um geographical landmarks that make it super easy to tell 77 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: which way north and like the Hollywood Sign and the 78 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: hills and stuff like that. Is that real? Is the 79 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: Hollywood Sign real? What do you mean? Is it real? Okay? Um? 80 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: So that makes a lot easier in New York when 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: I come out there, all those big tall buildings. I 82 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: never know. I can never come out and say like, 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: well that's north. Um. But if you know that stuff, 84 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: and you know that the even numbered streets run east 85 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: the odd ones run west, then you can you won't 86 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: walk in the wrong direction for a block and then 87 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: get there like I do and go, oh, we should 88 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: have gone the other way. Yeah, because depending on what 89 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: direction you're walking, if you're walking north or south, going 90 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: the wrong direction and a block isn't that bad. But 91 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: if you're going east or west, it's real bad because 92 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: very long blocks going east to west. And that's all 93 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: part of that Commissioner's plan that was laid out in 94 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven. And on the one hand, you know, we've 95 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of hit upon the pros and the cons of it. 96 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: That it's easy to get around, which is really saying 97 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: something because New York is absolutely huge. But you could 98 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: make it from one end to the other without a map, 99 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: just knowing that that it's on a grid and how 100 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: the grids laid out, um, even roughly. But the problem 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: is it's on a grid, and a grid is one 102 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: of the least organic shapes around and because this grid 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: stretches over almost all of Manhattan. Most of Manhattan for sure. UM, 104 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: it's viewed by a lot of people is kind of 105 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: soulless and canyon esque because you're just totally surrounded almost 106 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: constantly by big, imposing buildings, all at these right angles, 107 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: which it feels like a very built environment. UM. And 108 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: until Central Park came along, which we did an episode 109 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: on in what the eighteen fifties or sixties like that 110 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: was it? That was New York. There was nothing but 111 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: that built environment. I got a few more of my things, Okay, 112 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: let's have them. But uh, Manhattan's about thirteen and a 113 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: half miles long. And then so this grid makes sense. 114 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: But then once you get north of fifty ninth Street, 115 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: you start to get like Atlanta does, and a road 116 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: will just change names out of nowhere. Atlanta is very 117 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: famous for that, and people get very confused. Here. It's 118 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: very confusing also because the road will will change names, 119 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: but one of the names, Peachtree, will still be there, 120 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: but it's a totally different street and it does not 121 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: help things. That's right, So north fifty nine UM avenues 122 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: on the west side change names, but avenues on the 123 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: east side do not. So eight becomes Central Park West 124 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: ninth becomes Columbus Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue, and eleventh becomes 125 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: West End Avenue. What about Avenue of the America's well, 126 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: that's sixth, right or is that seventh? Oh man? I thought, 127 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: I think it's sixth. I think, but that's really not 128 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: a name change. That's just that's something that that tourists 129 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: call it, right. I remember you making fun of me 130 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: when I call it that? Did I really? Yeah? That 131 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: sounds a good right, it was really jarring. Uh. And 132 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: then to get people really confused between third and fifth Avenue, 133 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: there are three avenues, uh, instead of what you would 134 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: think would be one, because Lexington Park and Madison fall 135 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: between those YEA, and then south of twenty three you've 136 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: got your lettered avenues A, B, C, and D, which 137 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: is alphabet city. So you would need to have to 138 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: pull out a map. You just have to stand in 139 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: the middle of New York and listen to the first 140 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: like ten minutes of this episode, and you'll find your way, 141 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: no problem. All right? Should we get into this? He said, 142 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: people don't like the grid. There are there are a 143 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: lot of people. Um, I mean, what did Walt Whitman 144 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: call it? Uh? Icky? I think now I think he 145 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: said he called he called it one perpetual dead flat Yeah, 146 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: and streets cutting each other at right angles are certainly 147 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: the last things in the world consistent with beauty of situation. 148 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: How about this one from Edith Wharton Rectangular New York. 149 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: This cramped horizontal gridiron of a town without towers, porticos, fountains, 150 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: or perspectives, hide bound in its deadly uniformity of mean ugliness. Yeah, 151 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: I like hide bound. That's great. That's a great word. 152 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: And mean ugliness definitely captures like a certain sense of 153 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: New York, depending on your your mood or mindset, you know. Um. 154 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: There's one a guy named Peter Mark Huse who's an 155 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: architecture critic. He said that the grid layout of Manhattan 156 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: was one of the worst city plans of any major 157 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: city in the developed countries of the world. Right, but 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: some people love it. Some people said it was pragmatic. 159 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: Some people said it really accommodated for the one thing 160 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: it needed to accommodate for, which was massive growth. Uh. 161 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: Let me see here. An architect named Raphael Vin Vinoly 162 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: who was I think a modern architect. Not modern, I 163 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: just mean current architect, but he may do modern work, 164 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: you knows. Uh. He said, the grid is the best 165 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: manifestation of American prag mattism, pragmatism in the in the 166 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: creation of urban form. And then in Dutch architect name 167 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: rim Cool has said that the grid was the most 168 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: courageous act of prediction in Western civilization, clearly talking about 169 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: the the growth. Yes, but a courage this act. That's 170 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: like architect talk, right that right there. So, but for 171 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: the most part, from what I understand, and definitely Dave 172 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: says the same thing. Um, most New Yorkers, especially born 173 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: and raised New Yorkers, we're not happy that that's how 174 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: their city is laid out. That there's a lot of 175 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: room for improvement. Yeah, your experience too, sure, I mean 176 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: Central Park is great. But you know, as we'll find out, 177 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: they did not, uh they doesn't didn't really plan for 178 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: green spaces, and New York has done their best to 179 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: kind of carve them out since then. But you know, 180 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: let's let's get into this commission. Well, let's talk about 181 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: grids first. Do you want to Yeah, all right, do 182 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: you want to take a break and then talk about 183 00:10:40,920 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: the grid story? Yes? Uh? So New York didn't invent 184 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: the grid. As much as they liked to boast that 185 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: they did, they did not. In fact, a grid layout 186 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: of a city. Um. Goes back to that Indus Valley 187 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: civilization that for some reason keeps popping up in the 188 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: last like year or so. I guess they're going to 189 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: make a comeback or something like that. But they've just 190 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: been coming out all over the place. Um. But one 191 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: of the what was it, chuck, was it? Did they 192 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: invent the zipper? I don't think it was a zipper? 193 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: What was indigo? There's been there's been a number of them. 194 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: But anyway, about at least five thousand years ago, the 195 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: Indus Valley civilization was using the grid layout to create 196 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: Mohan Joe daro Um, which was a fifty acre city 197 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: on a grid. Um. And then shortly after that the 198 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: Greek said, I really like this. In fact, there's a 199 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: Greek um I think, or mathematician named Hippodamus who's known 200 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: as the father of city planning, and he was bully 201 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: for grids too. Yeah, if you have a grid that's 202 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: still these people still call that the Hippodamian plan, which 203 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: is kind of great all these years later to still 204 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: get recognized for your grid work. Yeah, if if you're 205 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: ever talking to somebody and they refer to a grid 206 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: as a Hippodamian plan, that person knows what they're talking about, 207 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: or listens to this show that it's one in the 208 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: same basically, and you're going to say that, Uh, let 209 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: me see. The conquistadors of Spain, they kind of had 210 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: a habit of coming in conquering and then having their 211 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: template in place to create these grids um as what 212 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: they call the law of the Indies, and they would 213 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: sort of just come in, set up shop. You got 214 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: a town with a big central plaza and then a 215 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: grid surrounding that central plaza, right, and they they use 216 00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: that for everything from Lima to Los Angeles. Um. And 217 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: this took me back in my mind to uh, what 218 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: was the name of that colonial town in Guatemala that 219 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: we visited. Oh, yeah, I know, I know what you mean. 220 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: It was wonderful, driving me crazy, It really was wonderful. 221 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: Was one of the most beautiful towns I've ever been in. 222 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: But it had like a central plaza with a fountain. 223 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: It was a much smaller town. But um, now that 224 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: I think about, it was laid out on a grid too, 225 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: and it was part of that law of the Indies 226 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: that you were mentioning that it was just like this 227 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: is how you build a town. And apparently the reason 228 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: that they they um used that that law like in 229 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: town after town after town, that they just basically took 230 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: over and said this is ours now it's Spain's. Is 231 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: applying a grid was um kind of a metaphor for 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: applying order and civilization to a formerly disordered in wild 233 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: indigenous you know town, which make sense from a colonizer's perspective, 234 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: but I'm sure it sucked from the indigenous person's perspective 235 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: like everything else. Yeah, that's with this stupid right angle stuff. 236 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: So New York City comes along. Um. Philadelphia had been 237 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: laid out in a grid by William Penn very deliberately though, um, 238 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: and that grid was kind of roomy and spacious because 239 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: William Penn did not like the congestion of London. But again, 240 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: Philly very much purposeful. Yeah, boy, d C has a 241 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: has a kind of a crazy grid. Yeah, but once 242 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: you understand it, it makes total sense. Numbers and letters 243 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: as in directions. Yeah, but it takes a little more. 244 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: It takes more getting used to than New York to 245 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: from from my experience and what I understand, Yeah, for sure. 246 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: So the Commissioner's Plan of eighteen eleven is really sort 247 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: of the demarcation point between what was first New York, 248 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,119 Speaker 1: New Amsterdam and then what we now know as Manhattan. 249 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: Because anyone who's ever seen almost said Games of New York, 250 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: Gangs of New York knows that those were crazy days 251 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: down there in Lower Manhattan and things just sort of 252 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: sprouted up organically from the river upward as far as 253 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: the layout and the design. Uh. And you know, you 254 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: can still feel that when you go down to Lower Manhattan, 255 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: which is why I love the villages. Now. I think 256 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: it's just I mean, I like the simplicity of the grid, 257 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: But I think what I love about Lower Manhattan is 258 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: how organic it feels. It's a jumble, and I mean 259 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: it's a jumble for a reason because those streets largely 260 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: follow these original organic paths that the Dutch settlers and 261 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: earliest English settlers basically said, oh, we need to get 262 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: from the waterfront up you know, to the common lands 263 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. Here's a good path. And this path happens 264 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: to meander around as salt marsh, and we avoid having 265 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: to go up a hill by going around this way, 266 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like meandering, and it's it's definitely 267 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: locked in time from those streets down there, and um, 268 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: Lower Manhattan I like it too, but it is very 269 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: easy to be like, are are you sure we're going 270 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: in the right direction? Still, it's very easy to get 271 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: lost in those because it isn't at all a grid. Yeah. 272 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: I've spent enough time in Lower Manhattan now to where 273 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: I can landmark it, like it's just familiar enough to 274 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: me to where I kind of know, like this block 275 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: in that block, so I know where I'm going. Um, 276 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: and you mentioned something important. I don't think we've even 277 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: kind of said that New York was not all this 278 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: just big, one, big flat slab thirteen miles long that 279 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: we love today because you can walk forever without ever 280 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: getting out of breath. Because it's not Seattle. Um. New 281 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: York was swamp land and it had hills and marshes 282 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: and creeks and rocks, and it was you know, it 283 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: was kind of wild East Coast territory. Yeah. And I 284 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: mean the reason that those marshes in the ponds and 285 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: hills and stuff aren't there anymore is because of this 286 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven Commissioner's planing. It basically said tear it all down, 287 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: fill it all in, build this over it. And they did. 288 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: That's the most astounding thing is they did that. They 289 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: they you know, as we'll see, they passed a law 290 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: that basically said, we're gonna appoint a commission of three people. 291 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: They're going to come up with three people, and whatever 292 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: they come up with is law. It can't be challenged 293 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: in court, and we're not going to back up, back 294 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: it up and and change it in any way. And 295 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: they really didn't. As bad as the plan was, and 296 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: almost every way, they really stuck to it. But the 297 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: thing that struck me, I had no idea about this 298 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: UM was that the the eighteen eleven Commissioner's Plan was 299 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: just a rip off of another earlier surveying map that 300 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: basically provided the basis of this of the Commissioner's plan, 301 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: not even the basis of it. They were like, oh, 302 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: we'll take this as a starting point. They just said, 303 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: we'll take this print and put our names on it. 304 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: And that's ultimately what happened. Yeah, So pre Revolutionary War UM, 305 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: most of Manhattan was in that lower third of the island, 306 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: and we got into big time debt because of the 307 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: Revolutionary War. And so the city said in the seventeen eighties, 308 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: al right, here's what we gotta do. We owned tons 309 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: of land, publicly owned land, and all this marshy kind 310 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: of ready rocky pondi area. Um, it's not developed. Let's 311 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: sell the stuff off and make some dough. It's called 312 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: the common Lands, and we need somebody to get in 313 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: there and just sort of, you know, survey this and 314 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: plot it out out so we know exactly how to 315 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: best sell this. Yeah, so they hired a guy named 316 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: Kasimir Theodore Girk. That's how I'm going with this. Girk. 317 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: Sure it's not a cucumber, it's a gherkin. Do you 318 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: remember Mr Cabbagehead from Kids in the Um? Well this 319 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with that, right right. Um. So this, 320 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: this surveyor actually went through the common Lands like basically 321 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: what we understand is all of Manhattan between Houston and 322 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: North Harlem. He just went across and broke it into 323 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: five hundred acre parcels. He had a sixty six ft 324 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: chain on his um surveying poles, and so he said, well, 325 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: I'll just use that as the basic measurement for the 326 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: widest streets. Sixty six ft is what it's going to be. 327 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: I think he said five acre parcels. Weren't they five acre? 328 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: Oh yes, I'm sorry, it's a little bit of a difference. 329 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: They were five acre parcels. So that's even more work. 330 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: That's a hundred times more work than what I described. 331 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: That's right. So, um, he laid him out as a 332 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: grid because he wasn't like, this guy wasn't out to 333 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: say here's how Manhattan should be built, right right, this 334 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: is the best way to promote the future of growth 335 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: in Manhattan. No, that was not his charge. His charge 336 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: was like, hey, let's just to buy this stuff up 337 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: and sell it. Um. He had some interesting constraints. They 338 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: had to be five acres, they had to have a 339 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: central road that um all of these could sort of 340 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: access like fairly easily. And then he had the survey chain. 341 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: It's crazy to think about this was one of the 342 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: things that informed what is modern New York. His survey 343 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: chain was sixty six ft. So he said, all right, 344 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: that's how wide the road is. Yeah, exactly, So I 345 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: think that was like the the widest road, the central 346 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: access road. He called that one Middle and now I 347 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: believe that's fifth Avenue is Middle what was originally Middle 348 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: Road back in Yeah, that's adorable. So he carved this up, 349 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: this place up into um into these plots that are 350 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: um two feet on the east and west boundaries of it, 351 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 1: so going up and down, running north south. But if 352 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: you're on the plot, it would be on the east 353 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: side of the plot, in the west side of the plot, 354 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: if that was not confusing before it is now. And 355 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: then across Austar the width was nine twenty ft and 356 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: that was Those were the plots. He said, here you go, 357 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: this is a there's a bunch of them up there. 358 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: But I've carved up all of these common lands and 359 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: you can start selling them if you want. Yeah. Did 360 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: you mention the names of the other two roads? Oh? Yeah, 361 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna put two more in 362 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: of these sixty six ft wide roads, and uh, he 363 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: had some very clever names for them. Yeah. One was Middle, remember, 364 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: the one to the east he named East, and the 365 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: one to the west he named west. Yeah, which which 366 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: makes sense if you're looking at it from if you're 367 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: on the Middle Road to the east is the East 368 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: road to the west of the West Road, but they 369 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: run north south right, man, I hate directions. Uh, And 370 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: like you said, that was fifth in the center, so 371 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: that's now fourth, fifth and sixth or fourth Avenue, fifth 372 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: Avenue and the avenue. You know, you really not supposed 373 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: to say that. What a jerk. I believe that said that. 374 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: Didn't say it like that, and you just you just 375 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: made sure that you wait until the crowd had gathered 376 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: and really late into me. I think I remember, was 377 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: that our first trip to New York? Probably? Yeah, probably, 378 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: That's funny. We've been back a couple of times since 379 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: then as a team. Huh. Yeah, I know, I've got 380 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: some really great memories of New York. I miss it. Yeah, 381 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: it's been a while. One. Well, we will see you again, Yes, 382 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: we will New York, don't you, at least I hope. 383 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: So there are no guarantees, right, No, we will see 384 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: New York again. All right? So, uh do we take 385 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: another break? I feel like there's still a lot. There's 386 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: still a lot. We should keep going for now, I think. 387 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: All right. So in eighteen oh seven, this is when 388 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: the New York State Legislature said, you know what we 389 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: need to like, we're growing here. It's clear that this 390 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: southern tip of Manhattan is just the beginning. So they 391 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: passed a bill that they described as an Act of 392 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: relative and Act relative to improvements touching uh the laying 393 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: out of the streets and roads in the City of 394 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: New York and for other purposes, right, which made sense. 395 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: But like I said, that this law, they decided to 396 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: just vest absolute authority into these three commissioners and said, 397 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: we're going to follow whatever they come up with, whatever 398 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: they that seems to them most conducive to public good. 399 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: We're just going to take on its face that it 400 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: is most conducive to public good and just go with it. 401 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: That's crazy that it was just three people, and that 402 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't like ten teams of three people submitting the 403 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: best designs that then would be gone over and voted on. 404 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: Like took this, No one took it seriously. Weirdly enough, 405 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: very so who were these guys? So there are three 406 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: commissioners appointed. Whate was Governor Morris. His first name was 407 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: Governor Um. He was one of the founding fathers. He 408 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: wrote a lot of the Constitution, including the preamble. Um. 409 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: He had a peg leg. He lost his leg in 410 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: a carriage accident, Um, although there's rumors that it was 411 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: something else. But he was known as a dave. It's 412 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: an energetic philanderer. But he was apparently a very likable 413 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin asked, kind of dude, UM, who seemed to 414 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: be fairly smart but had really no understanding of surveying 415 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell. No. Then his nephew 416 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: in law, John Rutherford, He's he was a landowner in 417 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey. In fact, I think the largest landowner in 418 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: New Jersey at the time. And by all accounts, it 419 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: looks like this was pure nepotism. He was late for meetings, 420 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: he was not especially interested, even to the annoyance of 421 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: Governor Morris. All the reasons to not exercise nepotism. This 422 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: guy brought to the table is one third of this 423 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: commission who's figuring out how to lay out the plan 424 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: for New York City. That's right. And then the third guy, 425 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: Simon Lebon No, no, no, Simeon DeWitt, excuse me. And 426 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: this guy actually knew what he was doing. He was 427 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: a really very respected, accomplished surveyor, worked with George Washington. 428 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: I think it eventually became the UM which I didn't 429 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: even know as a thing. Was the official surveyor for 430 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: the Continental Army and then the surveyor General of New 431 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: York State, right, so he knew what he was doing, 432 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: which makes his role all the more shameful that he 433 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: didn't say, like, oh, well, we really gotta we gotta 434 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: get cracking. It's been three years and we got four 435 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: years to do. And maybe he did, though he knows. 436 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: He might have been completely run over about these other 437 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: two jumps and he just got shouted down. I guess 438 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, at the very least. Governor Morris 439 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: was also one of the founding members of the commission 440 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: that created the Erie Canal, which was for a very 441 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 1: long time considered one of the greatest public works projects 442 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: in the history of America, certainly in the history of 443 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: New York State. UM and that kind of energy and 444 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: imagination and drive just did not make it to this 445 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven Commission for the Planning of New York. I 446 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: wonder if he I mean, this sounds cynical, but I 447 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: wonder if he literally was like, man, that Erie Canal 448 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: project really was a big bummer, and how hard we 449 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: had to work, and let's just kind of, Hey, look 450 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: at these maps that this guy drew to sell off 451 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: New York. Let's let's just use those. Yeah. So that's 452 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of what they did. Like they 453 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: they had four years or they took four years, I'm 454 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: not sure how long they had, but they took four 455 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: years from eighteen or seven to eighteen eleven um to 456 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: turn in their report. Four years of meeting sporadically true, 457 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: but they still met over these this four year period. 458 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: They came up with an eleven page report to lay 459 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: out these thirteen miles in length, not not even square 460 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: miles um of Manhattan, these common lands, all the way 461 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: from House and Street up to North Harlem. Um. They 462 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: came up with eleven pages to explain their map. And 463 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: their map really made sense as a grid. But again 464 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: they stole the grid from Kazmir Gork. I can't remember 465 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: what I called them before. I'm going with Gork now, Okay, sure, um, 466 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: but they didn't give them any credit for it whatsoever. No, 467 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to go so far as 468 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: to call it a tracing project, but you know, they 469 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: borrowed pretty heavily, Like the streets and the avenues were 470 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: basically the exact same when you know earlier you mentioned 471 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: the blocks were two Kirk from Kirk, right, yeah, this 472 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: this had the exact same way out and that was 473 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: no accident, no, and they were in virtually the same spot. 474 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: They did do some stuff, you know, They didn't just 475 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: take his his map, like you're saying, and trace it 476 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: and call it their own. They made some changes to it. 477 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: They created instead of the three middle, east, and West, 478 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: they created twelve avenues running north south and not not 479 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: true north south, but just you know, for our purposes 480 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: north and south. And then they created a hundred and 481 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: fifty five numbered streets. But they added this stuff, but 482 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: it's sort of just copy pay kind of kind of. 483 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: But the big thing is so adding the twelve numbered 484 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: avenues was definite change to Girk's corks. I'm never going 485 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: to say the same thing twice, But was it? Yeah, 486 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: because he only had the three, I know, but he 487 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: just had the three and they were like, well, we 488 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: need more, so let's just do what he did all 489 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: over the place. Sure, sure, okay, all right, you know 490 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, that's fair. Yeah, I'm they're these guys 491 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: are definitely not a hill. I'm willing to die on. 492 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: So say what you will about them. I think they're 493 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: lazy schmos too. And then they took these they took 494 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: these cross streets that are formed by the surveying of 495 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: these blocks and turn them into numbered streets. So avenues 496 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: running north south they were the big ones, D fifty 497 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: five numbered streets running east to west. Um. They they 498 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: widened the avenues that said they're gonna be a hundred feet. Why. 499 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: I guess they had a longer surveying right. Um. And 500 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: then they widened some of the cross streets to I 501 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: guess ease congestion. Um. I think they widened fifth teen 502 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: of them total. Yeah, they I think the other streets 503 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: were sixty feet and then fifteen of them went to 504 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: a hundred at six one. But why why those particular 505 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: ones there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason 506 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: because if you notice, they didn't really hit their stride 507 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: into keeping them separated by ten ten cross streets until 508 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: six street. So there's not really much rhyme or reason 509 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: there when they only did that for three of them, right, 510 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: for four of them. And then the the streets that 511 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: they did choose to widen didn't necessarily make much sense 512 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: one way or the other, Like, for example, seventy one 513 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: Street was already fairly wide, it was definitely wider than 514 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: seventy two Street, but they decided to make seventy two 515 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: Street the widened Um the widen cross Street, rather than 516 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: seventy one, And apparently no one knows why. The closest 517 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: thing I could find is there some record in eighteen 518 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: fifty seven of somebody having to remove a big rock 519 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: from seventy Street to widen it. But that doesn't even 520 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: explain or makes sense, because there was a bunch of 521 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: houses that had to be torn down to make seventy 522 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: Street widened rather than seventy one, which was already wide 523 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: and had almost no houses exactly. So these guys were 524 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: just when you start to compile all the evidence, we'll 525 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: we'll kind of pay more out. It really seems like 526 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: these guys didn't even go to the common Lands, that 527 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: maybe they were just working from Girk's map, or if 528 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: they did go to the common Lands, they took zero 529 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: notes or paid zero attention, and that all of this 530 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: came from a place of laziness and ignorance, like not 531 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: knowing that seventy two was wider than seventy feet or 532 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: vice versa. Um would explain that decision more than anything else. Yeah, 533 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: if the other Another example is if you've ever been 534 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: on the West side and you feel like, man, these 535 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: avenues are big, it's because they are. The avenues on 536 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: the east side are spaced at six hundred and fifty 537 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: and six hundred and ten ft apart or six hundred 538 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: and ten feet apart, and on the west they are 539 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: all eight hundred feet apart for no reason, no reason 540 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Again, it 541 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: just it seems like they just phone this in. And 542 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: what's even more astounding is that New York's founding father said, Okay, 543 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna do exactly what you say without questioning it. Yeah, 544 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: and actually we kind of do have the reason if 545 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: you read closely, and we'll tell you the secret reason. 546 00:31:42,920 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: Right after this U Z FORR. Cliffhanger. It was great. 547 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: I'm still a little tense waiting for you to pay 548 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: it all. All right, here's the real reason, everyone, and 549 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: it all lies in this quote that has pulled from 550 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: their commission report. If it should be asked, why the 551 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: why was the present plan adopted in preference to any 552 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: other The answer is because after taking all circumstances into consideration, 553 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: it appeared to be the best or, in other more 554 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: proper terms, attended with the least inconvenience. And I think 555 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: that's the magic phrase right there, that last phrase attended 556 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: with the least inconvenience. And Dave rightfully says, what is obvious, 557 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: which is inconvenient for the three commissioners? Yeah, because their 558 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: plane was extraordinarily inconvenient for basically everyone involved. Like there 559 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: was very from the people who were in charge of 560 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: like making this this like building this grid or this 561 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: plan to um, the people who are already living in 562 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: places that were torn down. Yeah, places were torn down 563 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: to to adhere to this plan, this eighteen eleven commission plan. 564 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: That's crazy. Um. And again when you start to add 565 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: all this stuff up, it does seem like the least 566 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: inconvenient for the three commissioners. And the fact that if 567 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: that is true and they just included that is kind 568 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: of like a cheeky little joke. You know, these guys 569 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: are they're not not necessarily burning in hell, but they're 570 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: probably in purgatory somewhere. I also have a lot of 571 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: respect for that kind of laziness at times. So the 572 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: kind that makes fun of itself and public documents, well 573 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: just just is that upfront about the fact, like you 574 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: know what that didn't really want to work too hard 575 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: on this, So here's here it is, right. So uh yeah, 576 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: it was very incon in it for everyone but them. 577 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: Uh they did this because of the growth population they expected, 578 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: so it sort of made sense. But they even got 579 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: that wrong. They were wrong by about half of what 580 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: they thought the growth rate was going to be. Yeah, 581 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: that's that's the thing is. They were saying, like, okay, 582 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: this is the this affords um enough population growth to 583 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: afford a population greater than any other this side of China, 584 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: is how they put it. UM. So they clearly did 585 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: have at least growth on their mind, and that if 586 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: you build on a grid affords for the most growth. 587 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: It's the easiest to build on. Right angled structures are 588 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: the easiest to build and settle and live in. UM. 589 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: But the thing is is part of that law, that 590 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: eighteen o seven law that established the commission charged them 591 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: with creating public squares. Although it said uh, in in 592 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: size and form and all that and number that the 593 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: commissioners see fit. Unfortunately, the commissioners didn't see fit to 594 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 1: make almost any kind of public gathering places, especially green 595 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: spaces for um mental health, I guess is what you 596 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: would call it. Yeah, and their reasoning is kind of uh, 597 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: kind of b s actually, Um, I'm not sure which 598 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: one it was. I guess it was Morris that I'm 599 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 1: not gonna read the whole quote, but he basically said, hey, listen, 600 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: we don't have the sin River or the Thames winding 601 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: through the middle of town, but what we do have 602 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: are these two wonderful rivers that just kind of hug Manhattan. 603 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: And that's enough because everyone's just gonna go hang out 604 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: out the river all the time because it's beautiful and 605 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: gorgeous and you can swim in it. And the East 606 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: River and the Hudson River will forever be our green space. Basically. Yeah, 607 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: Basically that that was that the city had enough, it 608 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: didn't need green spaces because of the East and the 609 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: Hudson rivers and um. Like, in about forty years people 610 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: were like, no, we we need to build Central Park. Yeah, 611 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 1: which was a savior because I think it says here 612 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: on their original plan only five percent of the grid 613 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: was public green space and two hundred forty of those 614 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: acres was a parade ground, yes, which I didn't know 615 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 1: exactly where that was. To you, No, I'm not sure, Um, 616 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean there, you know, there's Washington 617 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: Square Park, there's some cool kind of central promenades and 618 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: things like that. And then these you know, New York's 619 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: famous for these tiny little slivers of park um kind 620 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: of all over the place. But they're they're small, they 621 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: are they are very small, especially compared to the surrounding areas. 622 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: For sure, in the buildings. That's why the highline was 623 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: such a big deal. Yeah, it was a big deal. 624 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: And I remember not quite grasping why, you know, I 625 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: definitely do, because there's just people need that. People need 626 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: green space, they need nature, they need to be like 627 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: outside of a built environment, even if it's a built 628 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: natural environment, you know what I mean. Yeah, And and 629 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: Central Park is amazing and we love it, but that's 630 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: a it's a long way if you're in southern Manhattan 631 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 1: to get up there, right right. But basically these guys said, 632 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: you don't need to go hang out at the hudsoner 633 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: of the East River. It's so wonderful and lovely. So 634 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: the um there were a lot of people, like we 635 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: said that, we're really unhappy with this. UM. This was 636 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: a huge exercise of eminent domain. UM. There are a 637 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: lot of people on these lands already. Remember Seneca Village 638 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: that was destroyed to create Central Park. UM. They managed 639 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: to survive the U eighteen eleven commission. UM. I can't 640 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: remember how long that was around, but I want to 641 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,720 Speaker 1: say Seneca Village is around for a good fifty years 642 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: before it was leveled in the eighteen fifties, so it 643 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: would have been around on the common lands during this time. UM. 644 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: But they're like you said, about thirty nine or of 645 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: homeowners or established buildings had to be torn down. They 646 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: filled in ponds, they filled in salt marshes, They completely 647 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: altered the ecosystem of stuff that could have been built 648 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: around or incorporated had they stopped and thought about how 649 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: to do that. They just leveled everything and built a 650 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: grid over it. And so a lot of people were 651 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: really really unhappy about us, and they were particularly unhappy 652 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: that the UM, the city administration was just sticking to 653 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: this no matter what. And there were a lot of 654 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: lawsuits and all of them from what I understand that 655 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: we're unsuccessful. Oh yeah, for about sixty years. There were 656 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: tons of lawsuits going on. And uh, I know you 657 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: said it was a big imminent domain um act, but 658 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: it was I think still the largest act of imminent 659 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: domain in New York City. And that includes Central Park 660 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: and the uh how we get how they get their water, 661 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: which was another good episode. Yeah, because I mean Central 662 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: Park was huge, but it's it's just a small sliver 663 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: of this larger area. Yeah. Let's this one quote from 664 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: landowner Clement clark More. He published a pamphlet um about 665 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: the Tyrannical Commissioner's planned and and it it says this 666 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: nothing is to be left unmolested, which does not coincide 667 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: with the street Commissioner's plummet and level. These are men 668 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,959 Speaker 1: who would have cut down the seven hills of Rome 669 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: Burn big time. Yep. So um didn't matter though, No, 670 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 1: it really didn't matter. They just went ahead with it 671 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: blindly and thoughtlessly and did and again like it did 672 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: accommodate growth, although they underestimated the growth. But it took 673 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: a little while for this stuff to fill up. Um. 674 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: This this plan was delivered in eighteen eleven, but it 675 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: wasn't until eighteen seventy five that enough people had started 676 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: to move in. That there were more New Yorkers living 677 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: above fourteenth Street than they were living below it, because remember, 678 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: I mean Lower Manhattan was where it all began, so 679 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: that I mean it took a little while to fill in, 680 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: and it didn't even necessarily fill in uniform lee. Um. 681 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: By that same year in still forty thousand vacant lots 682 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: left in this grid plan. And that that was like 683 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: about half of the space. Yeah, I love that fact. 684 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: That's good. Dave has some nice facts here. At the 685 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: end um eighteen sixty nine, the very first apartment building 686 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: New York was built, uh, called the stive is Aunt 687 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: And they called them I don't even think they called 688 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: them apartments. At the time, it was called a French 689 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: flat or a French house. But prior to that it 690 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: was you know, tenement houses and houses. And so the 691 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: stive is ant Is built and everyone thinks it's silly 692 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: that anyone would want to live in the same building 693 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: as other people, and they called it stive his Aunt's folly. 694 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: But um that it was at one forty two East 695 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: Eighteenth between Irving Place and Third Uh, and it was 696 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 1: it was a huge hit, Like people made fun of 697 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: it in the newspapers, but people signed up to live 698 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: there almost immediately. It filled up. It was demoed and 699 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: replaced in nineteen sixty but so this is eighteen sixty nine. 700 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: Very it didn't take long though. In the Dakota was built, 701 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: which still stands today. So apartment buildings kind of came 702 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 1: into fashion, I think, probably do just Stuyvesant's folly. Yeah, 703 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: well yeah, I mean it went over so well and 704 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: so quickly that it really opened the way for more 705 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: and more to be built. Pretty cool. Um. So one 706 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: thing that people point to is this Commissioner's plan of 707 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven is just like that same principle or the 708 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: same significance that um, the Spanish coming in and and 709 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: imposing a grid over an indigenous settlement was somehow taming 710 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: the wild or the organic or something like that. There's 711 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: a This is the turning point between kind of unplanned organic, um, 712 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: much more harmonious, naturally New New York and the planned 713 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: modern New York that we know and love today. This 714 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: is where it went from one to the other. Um, 715 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: almost like flipping a switch. And granted for it took 716 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: decades and decades to realize this plan, but Um, when 717 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: it when it was delivered, and when it was adopted, 718 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: that was that was it? That that change happened and 719 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: the transition began. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I think so too. 720 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: What else is there for New York? I mean we 721 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: figure we got water, we got the subways covered, we've 722 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,720 Speaker 1: got Central Park, We've got this. Yeah. Um, let's see, 723 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: there can't be much else as far as just the 724 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: bones of I know. What I want to do is 725 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: maybe how that all the mail in the trash work? Okay? 726 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, we did the Rocketts once even too, 727 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean we've done a lot of New 728 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: York topics, that's true. Or maybe we should have moved 729 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: to a different city. Let's start talking about des Moines. 730 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: Holy cow, dude, almost simultaneously came out of my mouth. Yes, 731 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: it's so weird. It is weird. Uh, it's in the 732 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: zeitgeist apparently. Ah, you got anything else? I got nothing else? Okay, Well, 733 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about New York, um 734 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: to start reading and then eventually travel there. Uh, they'll 735 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: give you the all clear when they're ready. And since 736 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: I said that, it's time for listener mail. Hey guys, 737 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: my sixteen year old son Owen is probs your biggest 738 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 1: fan for real. He also has a narcolepsy. I appreciate 739 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: you taking on this topic and bringing some understanding of 740 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: it to the masses. He was diagnosed in his tin 741 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: and it affects every single aspect of his life. I 742 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: think it has made him wise beyond his years personally 743 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: and compassionate to other people with invisible struggles. But it's 744 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: still sucks. If you ever want to read or here 745 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: firsthand accounts from people with narcolepsy, check out Julie fly 746 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: gear that is f L y G A r E 747 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: or flag are A. I'm not sure how would you 748 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: say that? Oh? I like the I like the one 749 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: with flavor. The second who was doing all kinds of 750 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: advocacy for people with arcalepsy, including a scholarship foundation. She 751 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: founded Project Sleep and Voices of Narcolepsy. She also wrote 752 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,919 Speaker 1: a great book about her experiences with being diagnosed during 753 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: law school called Wide Awake and Dreaming. When Owen received 754 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: his diagnosis, I reached out to her for help. She said, 755 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: I want a care package with a book, a T shirt, 756 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: wrist bands, a very kind card, etcetera. To let him 757 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: know that he's not alone. That is very sweet. I 758 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: think she deserves an award for the work she's doing anyway, 759 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: a great resource for sure. Thanks for the work that 760 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: you do. I mean, could we get an award? You 761 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: know we've won a Webby before. I think, well, that's true. 762 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's fun and entertaining, but sometimes and often it's 763 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: really important in educational as well. Sincerely, the mom of 764 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: your biggest fan. And that is from Brooke. Thanks can, 765 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: thanks Ohen for listening. It's really good to hear from you, guys. 766 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: Um and Uh, I feel like we should send Ohen 767 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: something too. Sure, let's do it, Chuck, we'll figure it out, 768 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: all right. We can't be shown up by this fly 769 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: Gary person. No no, no, send us, uh, send us 770 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: your physical address and we'll mail you something that's right. Um. 771 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, thanks for listening and thanks for 772 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: being a fan. Uh and thank you for listening and 773 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: thank you for being a fan too. And if you 774 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with this, like Brook did, 775 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: you can send us an email, wrap it up spanking 776 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: on the bottom and send it off to Stuff podcast 777 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you should know is 778 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more 779 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: podcasts for My Heart Radio is at the iHeart Radio app, 780 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.