1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Where is Jamie Haggard? Just twenty seven years old? This 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: mom would never leave her children. The family at this 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: point still holding on to hope. As the months passed by. 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: After following countless leads, investigators keep coming back to where 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: she first goes missing. Where is Jamie? What went wrong? 6 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace out of character for her. 7 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard is out mother to twin daughters and is 8 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: extremely close to her family. Were told no one though 9 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: has heard from her since June, and they say they 10 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: are worrying sick. This is Jamie's Facebook page, scrolling through 11 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: old pictures where our kids, all of us cousins were 12 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: super close. Alicia Falling remembers the good times with her cousin, 13 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Jamie Haggard, but she also can't 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: hide her concern. It just seems very unusual that's nobody 15 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: has heard from her for so long. It's not like 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: her at all. Haggard's last contact was with family and 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: Ken Moore around June eighth. Keene County Sheriff's investigators are 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: now looking into her disappearance and calling it suspicious. We 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: think it's suspicious for a number of reasons. First, her 20 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: family says that she usually contacts her mom at least 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: every other day and they have a conversation. Additionally, she 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: hasn't used her cell phone since she's been reported missing. 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: As each day passes, family is growing more concerned. I 24 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: fear the most that somebody here heard her. While they 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: fear the worst, they're still hoping for the best. I 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: really hope that with all this, hopefully we'll get a 27 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: phone call from her saying hey, I'm fine that We 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: asked the sheriff's office why it's taken a month to 29 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: get this missing person's case out to the public, and 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: they tell us they had been serving search warrants on 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: her phone and credit cards, and we're hoping that in 32 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: the meantime she would surface. But without any leaves there 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: now turning to the public for help. That hope you 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: hear in the family's voice never seems to go away, 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: and that hope is heart breaking. They are clinging to 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: a shred of evidence, a shred of hope, believing that 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: Jamie may come home. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friend at Fox, Janet Kim speaking, 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: where is Jamie Haggard? Just twenty seven years old. This 40 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: mom would never leave her children, never, never, never, just 41 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: twenty seven years old when she goes missing. Massive searches 42 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: for Jamie, joining me an all star panel judge and 43 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: trial lawyer Ashley Wilcott anchor at Court TV. You can 44 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. James shell Nutt 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: twenty seven years on major case SWAT officer, retired the 46 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: medical Examiner for the State of Florida, joining US doctor 47 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher and joining US today, psychologist in New York 48 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. Founder of Visionista's by design at doctor Liz 49 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Lyz dot com, doctor Liz Dubor right now to Crime 50 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter Dave mac Dave, It's hard 51 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: for me to believe it took this long to get 52 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: the search going for Jamie Haggard. Let's just start at 53 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: the beginning. She's twenty seven years old, she's got children. 54 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: Tell me the last time that she was seeing Let's 55 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: try to create a timeline of sorts. It was on 56 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: June eighth, Nancy when she was actually seen or heard 57 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: from family or friends. And the reason you know you 58 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: mentioned why did it take so long, Well, because it 59 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: was out of the ordinary. Yet she did have a 60 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: constant contact with her mother every other day, and so 61 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: they were just trying to get a handle on things. 62 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: And as police were involved in trying to find where 63 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: she went, the first thing they did was they wanted 64 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: to find her cell phone records because that was what 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: she used to contact folks. She used it for her 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: online Okay, hold on, right there, right there, Dave Mack. 67 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: In this world that we live in with social media paramount, 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: I mean, first thing John David does when he wakes 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: up my son, who's just turned twelve, he grabs his phone, 70 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: and I've snuck into the bathroom while he's getting ready 71 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: to see what he's doing. He's watching tiktoks, he's watching 72 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: silly kid news and looking at memes. And I've spied 73 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: on him enough to know what he's doing in there. 74 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: But I mean, come on, he's twelve and he's in 75 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: there getting dressed. I've laid his clothes out, brushing his teeth, 76 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: and he's got that going in the background. Lucy, on 77 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: the other hand, really doesn't give a fig. She'll leave 78 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: her phone alone for days on in and even forget 79 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: where it is. But social media is paramou out in 80 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: so many lives to James shell Nutt Metro Major Case 81 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: swat officer. James, question, that's where you start in this 82 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: day and age back a long time ago. You'd start 83 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: with the witness. You'd have to trace them back to 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: their job or or getting gasoline. Now you look at 85 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: social media. How can you track that forensically? You go, Nancy, 86 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: social media and online electronic footprint is today's new fingerprint. 87 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: And you're right, it is used to start with the witness, 88 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: and now the best witness in the case is often 89 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: the electronic footprint. You know, there's a lot of searches, 90 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: a lot of softwares that you can date of mind 91 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: and search for a person's presence online, and that would 92 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: be the first place to start. And if you see 93 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: that someone's got a history of being online regularly and 94 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden they're electronic footprint disappears, that's 95 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: certainly going to give fries to concern. I agree with you, James, 96 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: and not only that too, Ashley Wilcott. You can see 97 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: her at court TV. Ashley. Not only that, like I said, 98 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: even at twelve, they're all over it like your little 99 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: girl there, it runs their life. It seems like so 100 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to believe that this young girl, 101 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: Jamie Hagger, just twenty seven years old, with children, was 102 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: not on herself texting, getting emails, looking at videos, making videos. 103 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: What about it, Ashley? I would start there too well. 104 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: I would also, And I have to say this. I 105 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: think that we see time and time again covering these 106 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: live trials that I cover. Guess what the first indication 107 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: that something's wrong is when someone is not heard from 108 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: in terms of social media. They're no longer posting, they're 109 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: no longer texting, they're no longer reaching out. Unfortunately, that 110 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: often means something has happened to change their daily routine. Guys, 111 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: we are on the search to find the truth about 112 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: what happened with Jamie Hagger, just twenty seven years old. 113 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: Beautiful young girl. If you want to take a look, 114 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: she's got a girl. She's twenty seven years old. Back 115 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: to you, Dave mc guys, if you want to see 116 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard, go to Crime online dot com for this 117 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: and all other breaking crime and justice news. Dave mac 118 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: pick up where you were. I'm sorry, we got carried 119 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: away with social media and we were talking about posting email, 120 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: text thing. But cell phones are perfect for triangulation, the 121 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: process of finding through your cell phone where you were last, 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: when your phone was last working, when you last had 123 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: it on, and you don't have to be sending a 124 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: text or getting a phone call through triangulation. What that 125 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: means is, as you drive along, your cell phone, whether 126 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: you're on it or not, is pinging, is making electronic 127 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: WiFi contact with cell towers. Yes, those horrible things that 128 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: are fashioned to look like trees, but you can tell 129 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: their cell towers those things. As a matter of fact, 130 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but my little church makes part 131 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: of its money every year because they've allowed cell apparatus 132 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: and the steeple. Yes, I did not know that, and 133 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: if the Lord doesn't mind, neither do I. But what 134 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm saying is, as you're driving along, you may not 135 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: even realize you're passing a cell tower, but your phone, 136 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: if your phone is on, is pinging, and that can 137 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: be quote triangulated, in other words, figured out where you 138 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: were last until your phone goes dead or it's disabled 139 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: or turned off, where they can find that. Okay, Dave, 140 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: Mac back to you. We got sidetracked with me talking 141 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: about social media and triangulation as it relates to Jamie 142 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: Haggard's Whereabouts. Pick it up where you left off. All right, well, 143 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned all that, Nancy, because here's the deal. 144 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: The phone was left at the house, and so what 145 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: they were trying to do the police were trying to 146 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: uncover who she was talking to up till the you know, 147 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: the moment that she went missing. And that's why they 148 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: were getting the search warrants for those things because they 149 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: knew where the phone was. Physically, they needed to know 150 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: who she was talking to and whether there was any 151 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: type of thing going on there on her phone. That's 152 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: why it was a couple of weeks before they went 153 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: full on searching for her. She was living with her 154 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: half brother too, and he had told police and friends that, 155 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, he saw her leaving the house that morning. 156 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: So the day she disappears, the vanishes is not seen again. 157 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: The brother sees her that morning. They're living together in 158 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: the same home and he sees or nothing is a miss. 159 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: So that's where we would start officially the timeline. Take 160 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at k I R O. Seven. 161 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: This is Alison Grande. Jamie would call her mom every 162 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: other day. I mean, that's kind of what she did 163 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: and so and she had, like I said, she had 164 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: two small children. So for her to just disappear, it's 165 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: highly suspicious. For her not to have any activity on 166 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: her cell phone, her credit cards, her bank accounts, that 167 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: is just out of what she would normally do. And 168 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: investigators are not revealing what it is that led them 169 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: back to this house. But Haggard lived in the home 170 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: with her brother and a boyfriend. She disappeared on June eighth, 171 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: but was reported missing on the seventeenth. She hasn't used 172 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: any of her credit cards, bank cards, cell phone. They 173 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: do believe the mother of those young twins is dead. 174 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: Back here live, I want to show you what's happening now. 175 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: Detectives here from King County's Major Crime Unit are talking 176 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: right outside the home as they take away the yellow 177 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: police tape, kind of figuring out what they're going to 178 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: do next. They really had hoped that they would be 179 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: able to bring some answers to the Haggard family today. 180 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: That didn't happen here, but they hope someone might see 181 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: this and that someone might have some information that can 182 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: help them find Jamie Haggard. Now detectives are looking for 183 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: any other DNA evidence DNA that doesn't belong to Jamie. 184 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: They're also asking you for tips. Anything suspicious. You might 185 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: have seen a car or a suitcase, if you think 186 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: back to two years ago now and you remember it 187 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: was a little Strange's the tip. We We don't know 188 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: at this time what if any additional evidence investigators found 189 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: in this field, but I do know they'll be back 190 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: out here searching again this weekend with the K nineteen 191 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace character for her. Jamie Haggard 192 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: is mother to twin daughters and is extremely close to 193 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: her family. We're told no one though, has heard from 194 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: her since June, and they say they are worried, sick. 195 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: This is Jamie's Facebook page, scrolling through old pictures where 196 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: our kids, all of us cousins were super close. Alicia 197 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: Falling remembers the good times with her cousin, twenty seven 198 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: year old Jamie Haggard, but she also can't hide her concern. 199 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: It just seems very unusual that nobody has heard from 200 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: her for so long. It's not like her at all. 201 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: Haggard's last contact was with family and Ken Moore around June. Eighth. 202 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: Keene County Sheriff's investigators are now looking into her disappearance 203 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: and calling it suspicious. We think it's suspicious for a 204 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: number of reasons. First, her family says that she usually 205 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: contacts her mom at least every other day and they 206 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: have a conversation. Additionally, she hasn't used her cell phone 207 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: since she's been reported missing. As each day passes, family 208 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: is growing more concerned. I fear the most that somebody 209 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: hurt her. While they fear the worst, they're still hoping 210 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: for the best. I really hope that with all this, 211 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll get a phone call from her saying hey, 212 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm fine that We asked the Sheriff's office why it's 213 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: taken a month to get this missing person's case out 214 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: to the public, and they tell us they had been 215 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: serving search warrants on her phones and credit cards, and 216 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: we're hoping that in the meantime she would surface. But 217 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: without any leaves, they are now turning to the public 218 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: for help. Jamie Haggard, twenty seven years old, seemingly vanishes 219 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: it a thin air. Two children twenty seven years old, 220 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: Think for a moment what you were doing at age 221 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: twenty seven straight out to doctor Liz Debor. Psychologists in 222 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: New York in Pennsylvania found her off Visionista's by Design 223 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: and you can find her at doctor Liz Lyz dot com. 224 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Debor, thank you for being with us. The family 225 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: at this point still holding on to hope as the 226 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: months pass by and then they see things like, for instance, 227 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: the Jamie Class case where Jamie Class goes missing, she's 228 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: held for a period of time, and then she is 229 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: found alive, or so many other similar cases like that, 230 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: that must give them hope that they will find Jamie 231 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: and bring her home. It can also do a disservice. 232 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: If I were in their shoes, I'd rather have hope, 233 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: doctor Liz to people hold on to hope even in 234 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: the face of facts that suggest otherwise. Yeah, so absolutely. 235 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: Hope is one of the most powerful and commonly used 236 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: things where people in this kind of experience and circumstance, 237 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: when all that they want is to find their loved 238 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: one faith and alive. Hope and faith are the things 239 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: that keep people going from day to day and even 240 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: when things are pointing in the opposite direction. You know, hope, 241 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: hope is strong, and a community together hoping together really 242 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: does bring the power of that hope and faith together, 243 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: it's almost and I'm sure you've seen this. James shell 244 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: Nutt twenty seven years major case detective, swat officer, now lawyer, 245 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: where people, in the face of overwhelming evidence their loved 246 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: one is dead, they keep hoping. And I remember after 247 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: my fiance was murdered. Every morning when I would wake up, 248 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: I would think everything was normal, and then it would 249 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: take about five or ten seconds for me to remember 250 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: that Keith had been murdered. And that went on literally 251 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: for years. And James, I remember looking at my mom 252 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: and holding her by each shoulder and saying, mother, is 253 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: Keith dead, And that that wasn't a dream. That was 254 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: in waking hours. It's like your mind can't or won't 255 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: except what's happening. Yeah, you know, that's a that's a 256 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: tough thing for the victims. It's a tough thing for 257 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: the investigators nowhere nearly as tough on them as it 258 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: is for the family. But you know, the not knowing 259 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: part is the worst part, you know. But unfortunately, in 260 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: situations like this, you've let her come to know because 261 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: you get a knock on the door from detectives to 262 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: give you the news. And yeah, I've had to make 263 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: that notification before. It's a very tough thing to do 264 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: as a law enforcement office or in any position. And 265 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: I have found that there's a lot of grief, there's 266 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: a lot of suffering, but at the end of the day, 267 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: there is some relief in just knowing what happened. And 268 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: not only that, you've got to look at the family 269 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: because we all know when someone meets foul play that 270 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: a loved one typically a partner, spouse, an egg, a boyfriend, 271 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: is responsible for their demise. That goes from the family too. 272 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: So when you tell them you think the person is dead, 273 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: you not only have your heartbreaking for them, but you 274 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: got to watch them. You've got to watch their reaction. 275 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: Do they do or say anything you find inconsistent, because 276 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: maybe you're looking at a killer, right. So that's a 277 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: hard thing to keep in mind for normal people that 278 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: would never dream of hurting a hair on the head 279 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: of someone they love. So, Dave Mack, she's missing two children. 280 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: How old are the children at the time she goes missing? 281 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: They're eight and a half. Oh, Lord in heaven, Ashley, 282 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: how much do your children need you at eight years old? 283 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: For Pete's sake. Yeah, and that's the other red flag 284 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: in this case. There are a lot of them. But 285 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: any time a mother or a caretaker or a parent 286 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: who's the one actually in the home parenting for the 287 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: children disappears without a word, there's cause for concern because 288 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: not only do these children need you at that age, 289 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: no mother that I know personally would do anything to 290 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: not let me rephrase that, Nancy, no parent I know, 291 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: no mother would let anything get in the way of 292 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: them parenting those kids and loving them every single day. 293 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: So Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell 294 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: me about the search. First of all, who reports are missing. 295 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: Her father reported her missing. His name is Lee Haggard. 296 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: He actually when they didn't have any contact with her 297 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: for a couple of days, he knew that was just 298 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: not the norm. So he called the police and said, 299 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: my daughter's missing. Go talk to my son and see 300 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: what you can find us. The last because they were 301 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: to see her. Dave Matt, remember, I'm just a jd Okay, 302 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: I got a law license, I don't have a DDS. 303 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: I'm not a dentist, so I can't pull teeth unless 304 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: you want me to, all right, And I will but 305 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: I need to hear a full answer about about what 306 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: happened with Jamie. So the dad is the one that 307 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: reports her missing, Okay, not the father of the children, 308 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: not the boyfriend. Now, let me understand this living arrangement, 309 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: Dave Max. She's living with her stepbrother and her boyfriend. 310 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: Is that right? Do I have that correct? You know, Nancy, 311 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: there are multiple reports about the people living in that home. Okay, 312 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: it was a rented home and Jamie was living with 313 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: her half. Hey, hey, hey, there's nothing wrong with a 314 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: rented home. I don't like the way you said that. Okay, 315 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: Like I'm they're homeless. I've rented a home. What everybody 316 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: can't live in a mansion with a long driveway is 317 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: with oak trees like you, Dave Matt all right, she's 318 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: got a basically single mom with two children living with 319 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: a boyfriend and a brother. Yes, it's rented. I think 320 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: they can make a mortgage payment or qualify for a loan. No. 321 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think, like anybody knows 322 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: the answer this jump in. I bet ask you. Wilcot's 323 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: going to pipe up. How many millennials live with their parents. 324 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: Nobody can't afford to put adale payment on the house. 325 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: I just have to say that it's amazing to me 326 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: how many millennials do live at home. And I represent 327 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: I used to represent D Facts, and so many of 328 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: those young case managers all would live at home so 329 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: they could afford to actually do what they wanted to 330 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: do for a living and still have a place. Start 331 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: with me about D Facts, okay, because you know what 332 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: I think about them. Okay, Dave mac jump in. What 333 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: were you saying? O? Yea, here was the reason I 334 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: pointed out the rental agreement because they did home now 335 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: because you because the owner, actually the owner of the 336 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: home had a friend of his living with them as 337 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: a roommate slash watching over the home. David had his 338 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: girlfriend that was staying in the home, and that was 339 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: a source of a a lot of friction inside that home. Okay, 340 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't even know what you just said, 341 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: Dave Matt. I would have to cross examine my own 342 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: witness if you were on the stand. First of all, 343 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: as I tell the twins and they just turned twelve, 344 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: Dave Matt, maybe you can learn from them no offense. 345 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: Use names, not he, she, they who did what? And 346 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: give them names Dave matt If it's landlord, owner's friend, say, 347 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: owner's friend. I don't even know what you're saying. Let's 348 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: get our facts straight. What okay, David, I don't like 349 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: your town. Now, your tone, your time. David Haggard and 350 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: his girlfriend Wendy lived in the home with David's half sister, 351 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard, the owner of the home. The landlord had 352 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: a friend of his live with them in the home, 353 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: and I can't his name is escaping me right now? Okay, 354 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: owner friend. Yes, the owner's friend was living in that 355 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: home with them. Okay, let me understand. So you've got 356 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: the owner's friend and his girlfriend, right, and you've got 357 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: the stepbrother and his girlfriend. Or if I added in 358 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: one girlfriend him, yeah, you added one extra. But let 359 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: me understand, let me get it straight. I gotta know 360 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: everybody living in that home. I've got the owner's friend, 361 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: I've got the stepbrother, David Haggard and his girlfriend, and 362 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: I've got Jamie Haggard. It's her boyfriend living there. Different 363 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: reports tell us that he was and he wasn't done. Okay, 364 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: so maybe that's one one word maybe on and off. 365 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: He's probably just like a sleepover weekend boyfriend. Okay, so 366 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: here we go. We've got the owner friend, We've got 367 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: the stepbrother, David Haggard and his girlfriend. We've got Jamie Haggard, 368 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: and then you have the eight year old twins in 369 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: and out. So that is a houseful, and you mean 370 00:21:51,480 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: to tell me nobody knows what happened. Crime stories with 371 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace tonight. Kane County detectives are continuing to look 372 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: for a missing Kenmore mother of two. Twenty seven year 373 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: old Jamie Haggard disappeared around June eighth, and they are 374 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: calling it suspicious. So this week they searched in and 375 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: all around Arlington after getting several tips that she was 376 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: spotted there, but detectives say it wasn't her, So they 377 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: are asking everyone to be on the lookout. And while 378 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: it's great that a lot of people have been sharing 379 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: her photos on Facebook, detectives are asking you to call 380 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: nine one or crime stoppers if you have any real information. 381 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: There's spending a whole lot of time tracking down rumors 382 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: instead of dealing with actual facts and people they can 383 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: interview now. Last Friday, deputy searched her property, but they 384 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: came up empty, even using a backhoe to sift through 385 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: the piles of trash in the backyard of the home 386 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: and are recently filled in hole as well. Detectives say 387 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: no remains were found. Her cousin is extremely worried something 388 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: happened to Jamie. There's been no activity on her cell 389 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: phone and bank accounts. It just seems very unusual that 390 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: she's nobody has heard from her for so long. It's 391 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: not like her at all. I fear the most that 392 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: somebody here heard her. You can hear the pain in 393 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: Jamie's cousin, Alicia Falling's voice, the search going on for 394 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Jamie Haggard. You were hearing our 395 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: friend David Rose at Q thirteen Fox News. Now take 396 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at k O seven. This 397 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: is Alison Grande. When he heard detectives were back at 398 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: the house today, he was hopeful he get answers to 399 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: have a child missing is there's no closure. It's an 400 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: open wound. It always will be a major crimes Investigators 401 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: did not recover any new evidence today. This is very 402 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances that surrounded her disappearance, and we believe somebody 403 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: out there knows. Emley Haggard has a promise for his daughter. 404 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: I'm not quitting, Jamie. I'm never going to quit, And 405 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: detectives tell us they're not quitting either. At this point, 406 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: they're not calling it a homicide. It is a criminal investigation. 407 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: But investigators, after being here today, they didn't find any remains. 408 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: They say they need help from the public to let 409 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: them know where to search for Haggard next. So the 410 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: search goes straight back to the home. Welcome back, everybody, 411 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Twenty seven year 412 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: old Jamie Haggard, the mother of two eight year old 413 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: twin girls, goes missing. Where is Jamie? What went wrong? 414 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: After following countless leads, investigators keep coming back to where 415 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: she first goes missing. James Shellnutt with me twenty seven 416 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: years Major case detective SWAT officer, now lawyer James shell Nutt. 417 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: Why do they keep coming back to the same location 418 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: where it all started, where she was last seen? Is 419 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: that because they've reached a stumbling block and they keep 420 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: going back to square one? I don't know. I love 421 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: the logical reason that you would go back is that 422 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: was the last known place that she was seen. You 423 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: definitely want to search that and you know you're gonna 424 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: ask both consent and search that property. If you believe 425 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: that there's a crime Dispink Committe, you certainly want to 426 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: get a search warrant to search that property. But you're 427 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: gonna go back and you're gonna look for any evidence 428 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: of who she had been talking with, who her inner 429 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: circle was, and whether or not there's any evidence as 430 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: to what occurred, what happened. Take a listen to our 431 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: friends at ki RO seven. This is Graham Johnson. So 432 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: far they told her they have not told us that 433 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: they found anything substantial. Just after five o'clock we saw 434 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: them doing some digging here in the front yard. You 435 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: can see some evidence of that. Then a short time 436 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: ago they returned that excavator to the backyard. The search 437 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: has been focused on looking for human remains. Within the 438 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: last hour, a truck Haulds off a pickup for evidence 439 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: and an excavator began digging in the front yard of 440 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: this ken Moore home, pulling up landscape fabric slowly so 441 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: detectives can look for clues. Twenty seven year old Jamie 442 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: Haggard lived here a few months. King County investigators say 443 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: she was last seen at the home June eighth. Relatives 444 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: say a few days later, her brother, also living here, 445 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: came to ask his father and stepmother if they'd seen Jamie. 446 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: I said, why are you asking? If she's here, you 447 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: live with her. He goes, well, she walked away from 448 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 1: the house five days ago. I got walked away from 449 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: the house Longing's car in the driveway, and so that's 450 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: when we started getting concerned. Lee Haggard looked for his 451 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: daughter for a couple of days, then reported her missing 452 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: June seventeenth. He says, it's unlike Jamie not to contact 453 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: your parents or her twin daughters who live with their father. 454 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: She worshiped the Gramley Walk and for her to be 455 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: away from them, sum's wrong. Well, not only is something 456 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: wrong to doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the 457 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: state of Florida. Not only are you the medical examiner, 458 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: but medical examiner's pathologists look at surrounding evidence as they 459 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: analyze a case. For instance, I remember an arson case 460 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: and the wife of a millionaire in Atlanta died of 461 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: smoke inhalation. She was also covered in bruises, which didn't 462 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: make sense, does it? And the medical examiner look not 463 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: only at the bruises and the smoke inhalation, but the 464 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: fact that a millionaire husband the week before the fire 465 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: took out all of his suits and dress clothes and 466 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: family photos of his family, not hers, and squirreled it 467 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: all away at local dry cleaners and his office warehouse. Now, 468 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: the morning of the fire, he called the weather hotline 469 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: to see if it was going to rain that day 470 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: and call the insurance Come, you need to find out 471 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: if he could get replacement furniture covered in case there 472 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: was a fire. And guess what, forty eight hours later, Bam, 473 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: there's a fire. So the medical examiner looked at all 474 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: that evidence that said this is a homicide. So doctor 475 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, when do you look at extrinsic evidence, extrinsic 476 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: outside the body itself. Well, thanks for having me on 477 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: the show again, Nancy, So always been a pleasure. You're right, Nancy. 478 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: When the medical examiners, such as myself comes to a scene, 479 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: we go through everything, every drawer, we look under every mattress, 480 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: we pick up carpet, we take out the walls. Basically, 481 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: whoa you take out the walls that just kind of 482 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: chipped off your tongue. Let's talk about what you just said. Okay, Okay, 483 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: Now remember you don't have a jury. You've got one, two, three, four, 484 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: five experts ready to pounce. When you say you just 485 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: kind of like threw it out there, they take apart 486 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: the walls. Explain why that is necessary. Well, on this 487 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: couple of cases, we've had bloody handprints on the walls, 488 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: we had bloody footprints on the tile, and that we 489 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: actually remove the tile and take that to the CSI 490 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: lab for a very detailed examination. So nothing is safe 491 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: when I come to your house. That's why I really 492 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: never get invited anywhere. But neither do I. Nobody wants 493 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: to talk about murder at dinner. I yes, doctor Tim Gallagher. 494 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know this, and I think 495 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: it's very significant. I remember another case where a beautiful 496 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 1: young woman, a mother of a little boy, had committed suicide. 497 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: Now catch this. She committed suicide in her bed, naked, 498 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: by shooting herself in the head. Okay, we all know 499 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: that's wrong on so many levels because women typically don't 500 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: shoot themselves in the head or around the face, or 501 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: shoot themselves at all, generally speaking, as a motive suicide, 502 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: nor do they arrange it so they will be found 503 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: buck naked. That practically never happens, so I knew it 504 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: the get goes something was way wrong. It was the 505 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: medical Examiner's team that was going back to the home 506 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: and I met up with them there. That's how I know, 507 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: just walked in because they were there. Long story short, 508 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that the medical examiner 509 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: in many jurisdictions has an investigative team and they go investigate, 510 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: just like homicide or police go investigate. And I remember 511 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: using some of their measurements that the Medical Examiner's office 512 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: had taken as to how far the casings were from 513 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: the bed, what position the shooter would be in at 514 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: the time of the shooting, for the casings to land 515 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: where they landed, and they had even performed experiments because 516 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: there was carpet on the floor, so we were there 517 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: dropping showcasings and seeing where they bounced. Medical examiners go investigate. 518 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't start when the body rolls into the morgue. 519 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: I love this profession, Nancy. I would not do anything else. 520 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: That is one of the major joys that I have 521 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: in being a medical examiner is getting everything that I 522 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: need to find the answer, to find the truth and 523 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: to get closure for the family. Yes, I've crawled under beds, 524 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: I've gone into the weirdest places you can imagine, down 525 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: into holes and oh manner of hoarders, homes, etc. And 526 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: I would not do anything else to get the answers 527 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: that I need. There's nothing that can stop me. You 528 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: know what, It's a funny thing once you are in 529 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: the criminal law business that, like Gallagher's talking, everything else 530 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: seems dry and boring. I mean, when I have to 531 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: go to some event or get together or a school event, 532 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: if you're not talking about murder, I am not interested. 533 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: I am bored out of my skull. I can say 534 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: this though, to ask you Billcot judge and trial lawyer. 535 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: You can see her on Court TV. Actually, there's a 536 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: big difference in returning back to Jamie Haggard's home to 537 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: ask questions and digging out the yard with a bacco. 538 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: Yeah you think. I mean, there is a huge difference. 539 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: And one of the things that fascinates me in this 540 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: case is the deliberate steps taken, but also how long 541 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: it took to take each of these steps and decide 542 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: to dig it up with a bacco. I think that 543 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: as this typical law enforcement had a lot of information 544 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: that they couldn't disclose. They didn't want to interfere with 545 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: their own investigation. They couldn't tell the media, they couldn't 546 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: tell their friends, they couldn't tell the family. But I 547 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: think that they had a lot of information that were 548 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: building blocks to say we now have a need to 549 00:32:44,760 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: dig up that backyard crime stories with Nancy Grace. Detectives 550 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: have worked the case quietly for a month. Today they 551 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: arrived with search warrants and an excavator after learning that 552 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: a backyard hole had been filled in within the last 553 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: month since Jamie disappeared. Because Sheriff's office considers this a 554 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: suspicious missing case. Over the last month have not found 555 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: any cell phone activity, bank activity, and again, investigators have 556 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: not told us yet if they've found anything substantial here. 557 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard was trained as a medical assistant Overlake Medical 558 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: Center tells me she worked there a little over a year, 559 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: be leaving in June twenty fifteen. If you have any 560 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: information about where she might be, called the King County 561 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office. You are hearing our friend, that's Graham Johnson 562 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: Kay seven, and you're hearing Sergeant B. J. Meyers from 563 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office. Well in the month following Jamie Haggard's disappearance, 564 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: all roads seem to lead to nowhere, and, believe it 565 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: or not, a year past. Listen. The first time they 566 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,239 Speaker 1: dug up the yard was last summer. There was a 567 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: pond in the back they said had been filled in 568 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: with dirt. Investigators won't tell us what brought them back 569 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: here today, but they tell us they do believe Haggard 570 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: is dead and they had hoped her remains were here. 571 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: Detectives used a backhoe to search the yard of the 572 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: home where twenty seven year old Jamie Haggard was living 573 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 1: when she disappeared. From Chopper seven, you could see they 574 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: were digging several holes looking for Haggard's remains. We got 575 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: a tip that we needed to dig at a new area, 576 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: in a new spot of this property. Haggard is the 577 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: mother of twin little girls. She was last seen June eighth, 578 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: reported missing by her dad June seventeenth. I think about 579 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: her all the time. I'm worried about her. I always have. 580 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: I've always worried about her. We met Lee Haggard at 581 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: his neighborhood pub. At his table to talk about his 582 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: little girl. It's been a year, and I'm hoping if 583 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: somebody's gotta to know something. Investigators met with Lee Haggard 584 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago to tell him they believe Jamie 585 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: is dead. They took DNA swabs from both parents, which 586 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: would help them identify her remains. Those hard hardisty. Oh 587 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: my stars, can you even imagine giving DNA to help 588 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: find your daughter. That only means one thing that cops 589 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: thinks she's dead. I want you to take a listen 590 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: now to K I R O Seven's Alison Grande, and 591 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: this is how fast they're working here. They had one 592 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: more thought they wanted to check in the yard and 593 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: they just finish that up just in the last minute 594 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: or so and brought the back hoo here around the 595 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: side of the home. This is where Jamie Haggard used 596 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: to live. This is where she was reported missing from, 597 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: and they were doing all they can to find her remains, 598 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: but so far the search here today has come up empty. 599 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: Now we want to show you a picture of Jamie. 600 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: This is who we're talking about, twenty seven year old 601 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard. She was the mother of twin girls and 602 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: has been missing for over a year, for just about 603 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: a year. From shop or seven, you can see how 604 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: detectives were working in the backyard of this house trying 605 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: to dig through using this back hoo to try to 606 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: see if they could find the young woman's remains. They 607 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: spent all morning looking. They did search the same yard 608 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: last summer. They searched in a pond area that had 609 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: been filled in with dirt, and they did not find 610 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: her there. They say they got a new information, a 611 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: new lead that brought them back to this house this 612 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: morning so they could search a different part of that backyard. 613 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: Detectives tell us Haggard is presumed dead to doctor Liz Dibor, 614 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: psychologist in New York in Pennsylvania, the founder of Visionistas 615 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: by Design, and you can find her at doctor Liz 616 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: Lyz dot com doctor Dubor. Even when cops are coming 617 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: and taking DNA swabs, they're called buckle swabs from the mouth. 618 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: You just get like m it looks like a Q 619 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: tip and slide it along the inside of the mouth. 620 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: From the parents, the dad still is thinking he can 621 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: bring her home alive. Now, that's what I talk about, 622 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: clinging to hope even in the face of overwhelming evidence 623 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: to the contrary, Doctor Liz, Why what about the human 624 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: makes you your your psyche cling to the hope that 625 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: the unthinkable could be true, could could be false. Yeah, 626 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: that's a that's a great question. Our brain tends to 627 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: protect us from that which we fear the most. Um, 628 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: So we hear about this very thing of denialal really 629 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: just knowing perhaps this could be the truth, and with 630 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: every fiber of your being hoping that it's not. Um 631 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: And so sometimes we think of that as a conscious 632 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: process of being able to hear the information, hear the evidence, 633 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: and decide what we believe to be true. But our 634 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: brains can also protect us by using the mechanism in 635 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: an unconscious way of really just being able to deny it. 636 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: And when you are denying of the truth, on some level, 637 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: you're still able to function that, Okay, this isn't true, 638 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: this isn't true. So it's unclear whether it's actually a 639 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: conscious hope or function of that kind of that first 640 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: stage of really grieving is the denial phase. Take a 641 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: listen to the stepmother Patty Haggard speaking to our friend 642 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: Rod Munoz. Detectives also told us there are no suspects 643 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: in custody over Hagar's disappearance, but they were able to 644 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: gather valuable context clues by talking to neighbors. Her father 645 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: told us this afternoon, Haggard had some financial troubles recently. 646 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: That's how her brother reported her missing. That has them 647 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: especially concerned. I said, why are you asking if she's here? 648 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: You live with her. He goes, well, she walked away 649 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: from the house five days ago. I go, walked away 650 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: from the house. Belongings car, it's in the driveway. And 651 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: so that's when we started getting concerned. Even though they've 652 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: been looking for a month, her family feels no closer 653 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,959 Speaker 1: defining her. I'm missing my daughter. I just I don't 654 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: know what happened to her, and I want her home. 655 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: Detectives also told us they have no clues on whether 656 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard is still out there somewhere, and neighbors here 657 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: who live inside the house say they couldn't comment. Well, 658 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: I think the mother, the stepmother, is right to be 659 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: concerned as to the fact scenario that she just walked 660 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: away when her car is sitting in the driveway. So 661 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: that's what we're being told by the step brother. Now 662 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: listen to Kai and g five hours before she vanished, 663 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: Jamie told her boyfriend she was afraid David would kill her. 664 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: David told friends conflicting stories, telling some he last saw 665 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: her just walking away and others that she left in 666 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: a car with a stranger. Police later recovered a burned 667 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: pair of pants from the backyard of the home where 668 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: David and Jamie lived. It's just one thing after another 669 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: that's heartbreaking. David also reportedly told people that he would 670 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: not pass up holygraph test. When police reported sightings of Jamie, 671 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: David told witnesses that was not possible. A police also 672 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: say that a GPS from a stolen car that David 673 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,479 Speaker 1: was driving put him near the scene where Jamie's body 674 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: was found. He was already in jail on arson charges. 675 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: Police believe he set those fires to try to conceal 676 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: evidence related to this murder. As bond now set at 677 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: two million dollars, so Dave mack. Her remains were found 678 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: where on the side of the road in a suitcase 679 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: just thrown off the side. Crew working to clean the 680 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: area actually found it and they took the bag to 681 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: the roadway to be picked up by the trash truck. 682 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: And it was only an afterthought to open it and 683 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: see what was inside, and that's when they found Jamie. 684 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: So all this time they're digging up the backyard she's 685 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: actually her remains are in a suitcase thrown to the 686 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 1: side of the road. To doctor Tim Gallagher, Medical Examiners 687 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: of Florida, how do you make sense out of remains 688 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: after a year has passed and they've been in a suitcase. Well, 689 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: that's certainly not going to be an easy case, Nancy, 690 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: but it's one that I accept the challenge for quite often. 691 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: There are, of course a DNA. We have DNA of 692 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,439 Speaker 1: the parents, so we can make an identification that way, 693 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 1: but we also have X rays and dental work that 694 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: we could also make a secondary identification with. And additionally, 695 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: she may have jewelry or clothing or some tattoo that 696 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: can be used as a secondary piece of identification as well. 697 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: So it's not a very good case. It's a very 698 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: gruesome case, but it's certainly one that any confident medical 699 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: examiner can solve. Well. Back to you, Dave Matt Crime 700 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what evidence do the police 701 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: have against David Haggard? They zeroed in on him. Obviously 702 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: he's charged with Arson and they believe that he what 703 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: burned some of her clothing or remains. I mean, what 704 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 1: is the evidence against the stepbrother? Okay, well, you know 705 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: you ran a bit a minute ago where they talked 706 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: about context clues they have the police have developed over 707 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. They found a pair of 708 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: jeans that were burned, apparently in the yard, and they 709 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: were able to tie those directly to Jamie. But beyond that, 710 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: the context clues of talking to neighbors and friends, they 711 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: were able to prove that there was a relationship between 712 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: Jamie Haggard and her half brother David that was volatile 713 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: on a good day, violent and vicious to the point 714 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: where he David took pictures after he beat Jamie and 715 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,839 Speaker 1: put her in a bathtub tied up. They found that 716 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: picture because he shared it with people. So they were 717 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: able to develop the back ground between the two and 718 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: their relationship and how bad it really was. And they 719 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: actually did have Jamie telling her boyfriend and it was 720 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: recorded that she feared for her life, that David had 721 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: recently knocked her unconscious and that she was afraid he 722 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: was going to kill her. What did they argue about 723 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: Dave's mac money, drugs, you name it. They had a 724 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: lot of friction going on, but at the last moments, 725 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: David was trying to get help from his girlfriend and 726 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: the other roommate to push Jamie out. What we know 727 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 1: now is that the brother, the step brother, David Brent Haggard, 728 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: age forty five, is charged with Jamie Haggard's death. Her 729 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: little girls will very likely never remember her. We wait 730 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: as justice of false Nancy Grace Grant story side of 731 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: d