Speaker 1: I think that we have to treat kindness as important
Speaker 1: as we treat innovation in science, or getting a master's degree,
Speaker 1: or starting our own business, because if we aren't kind,
Speaker 1: we're not going to last in whatever endeavor we do.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers
Speaker 1: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes
Speaker 1: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think,
Speaker 1: ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts
Speaker 1: don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 1: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 1: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 1: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Speaker 1: Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort
Speaker 1: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 1: how other people keep them else moving in the right direction,
Speaker 1: how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: Our guest on this episode is Adrian Bankerd, an Emmy
Speaker 1: Award winning national news correspondent with ABC News based in
Speaker 1: New York. Adrian has covered some of the most historic
Speaker 1: headlines of the past decade. Adrian calls herself a tour guide,
Speaker 1: providing coaching and mentoring, some of which she includes in
Speaker 1: her new book, Your Hidden Superpower, The Kindness that makes
Speaker 1: you unbeatable at work and connects you with anyone. Hi, Adrian,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thank you, Eric. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to talk to you. I am really happy to talk
Speaker 1: with you. Also, we're going to discuss your book, which
Speaker 1: is called Your Hidden Superpower, The Kindness that makes you
Speaker 1: unbeatable at work and connects you with anyone. But before
Speaker 1: we get into that, let's start like we always do
Speaker 1: with the parable. There's a grandmother who's talking with her
Speaker 1: grandson and she says, in life, there are two wolves
Speaker 1: inside of us that are always a battle. What is
Speaker 1: a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery
Speaker 1: and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents
Speaker 1: things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson
Speaker 1: stops and he thinks about it for a second, and
Speaker 1: he looks up at his grandmother and he says, well, grandmother,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 1: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 1: the work that you do well. It's so interesting because
Speaker 1: I think I discovered that story within the past year,
Speaker 1: right before I released the book, right after, and I
Speaker 1: thought about it because I think that all of us
Speaker 1: come from baggage. All of us come from, you know,
Speaker 1: things that have hurt us, things that have disappointed us.
Speaker 1: And I've seen different times in my life where I've
Speaker 1: fed the good wolf and I've fed the bad wolf,
Speaker 1: and it's a battle inside of us. It really is
Speaker 1: that six inch game inside of our mind. I think
Speaker 1: I wrote the book with the intention of a whipping
Speaker 1: people to see that as they chose kindness, it actually
Speaker 1: did become the greater good. You know, whenever you give
Speaker 1: or whenever you give attention to can end up consuming you.
Speaker 1: And what better thing to be consumed by than kindness.
Speaker 1: So it's a very very relevant parable. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: that idea, and kindness is definitely in the good wolf's camp,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a definite good wolf behavior. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean the story is about which wolf you feed,
Speaker 1: but I feel like whatever you feed ends up consuming you, yes,
Speaker 1: And so you'll either be bitten to death by your
Speaker 1: own negative energy, your temper, unforgiveness, flaws which everyone has,
Speaker 1: you know, the possibility of becoming or you'll be consumed
Speaker 1: by the kindness, the generosity, the compassion, to the point
Speaker 1: where you can't lean into that bad wolf territory even
Speaker 1: if you wanted to, because you're so consumed. You know,
Speaker 1: people who have passion are consumed by their desire. And
Speaker 1: if we would take love or kindness or goodwill and
Speaker 1: really drive after it, you know, pursue it like we
Speaker 1: would anything we wanted, then we could be transformed. That's
Speaker 1: my honest hope. Yeah. I love that idea that whichever
Speaker 1: one we feed ends up consuming us. I was a
Speaker 1: former alcoholic heroin addict, and that's the way I refer
Speaker 1: to it. I don't think I was feeding my bad
Speaker 1: wolf anymore. I think he was eating me, you know,
Speaker 1: like completely consuming me. Yeah, I totally get that. You
Speaker 1: say that kindness is a force that energizes us all
Speaker 1: with passionate purpose. So what's a way for us to
Speaker 1: get passionate about kindness? I want a bookmarket because you
Speaker 1: just shared something intimate about your life. I know it's
Speaker 1: on your bio, but just the struggles you had being
Speaker 1: an alcoholic, being a heroin addict, I mean not everyone
Speaker 1: recovers from addiction, not everyone recovers from heroin use. I mean,
Speaker 1: my goodness, but at that time in your life, I
Speaker 1: would think that you didn't have a sense of purpose, right, No,
Speaker 1: definitely not. Yeah, And I think that all of us,
Speaker 1: whether we use hard drugs or not, or drink heavily
Speaker 1: or just are addicted to guilt or addicted to shame,
Speaker 1: have some measure of void in our lives where we
Speaker 1: don't know what we're here for. And so it's interesting
Speaker 1: because when you're a visionary and you know, I think
Speaker 1: that some of the biggest drug users are actually some
Speaker 1: of the biggest geniuses in the world. They're just frustrated dreamers,
Speaker 1: conflicted dreamers. There's a piece missing sometimes and so like
Speaker 1: for me, if you don't know what your dream is,
Speaker 1: if you don't know what your purpose is, you can
Speaker 1: certainly help other people find theirs or fulfill theirs. And
Speaker 1: so when you are kind, you're putting other people ahead
Speaker 1: of yourself. And so in that journey of discovery for yourself,
Speaker 1: if you just put that down, not on the back burner,
Speaker 1: not on the shelf, but just kind of put it
Speaker 1: in your back pocket and say I'm going to get
Speaker 1: back to that. I'm going to reach for that in
Speaker 1: a second. Let me serve this person, let me serve
Speaker 1: this group, let me serve this cause. Then you'll actually
Speaker 1: become that funnel or that channel for purpose, and you'll
Speaker 1: discover your own Absolutely. It's interesting that in twelve step programs,
Speaker 1: which is the tradition I got sober in, most of
Speaker 1: them derive from AA. And there's a line in the
Speaker 1: AA Big Book around the third step and it says something.
Speaker 1: I think this word ends a little bit harsh in
Speaker 1: some ways, but I'll tie it back to what we're
Speaker 1: talking about. It says selfishness, self centeredness that we think
Speaker 1: is the root of our problem. What I realized for
Speaker 1: me was the root of my problem. Again, if we
Speaker 1: don't want to use words that are as judgmental as
Speaker 1: selfishness or self centeredness, the root of my problem was
Speaker 1: still that all I thought about was how things were
Speaker 1: going for me, not egotistically like I'm so great, mostly
Speaker 1: in a I'm a terrible kind of way, but the
Speaker 1: focus was all pointed back right at me. It was
Speaker 1: this collapsing and kindness is this turning out words. It's
Speaker 1: the thinking of other people, and in AA one of
Speaker 1: the most foundational is what do you do for other people?
Speaker 1: That is one of the most foundational things that enables
Speaker 1: I think people to turn their lives around, is they
Speaker 1: get that directionality change and they start looking out well,
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of people would say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that sounds really good, right, It sounds good to be
Speaker 1: a giver, like put twenty dollars in the Salvation army pot.
Speaker 1: But it's more than that. In studying poverty in my
Speaker 1: family and in other people, what I realized breaks the
Speaker 1: cycle is when you allow people to bring something to
Speaker 1: the table, that is themselves. When they see they have value,
Speaker 1: their self worth increases. You know, if I'm working on
Speaker 1: a food bank giveaway or a backpack giveaway for students.
Speaker 1: I know we're in COVID and so we don't do
Speaker 1: that as much. We do a lot of virtual giving.
Speaker 1: But when you're doing that, you're wearing the same T
Speaker 1: shirt as somebody next to you who might be more successful,
Speaker 1: more educated, more established, older wiser. Then you become like
Speaker 1: on a level playing field in terms of value. And
Speaker 1: I think that the world is in dire need of
Speaker 1: knowing that we all are intrinsically worthy, and so it's
Speaker 1: more than just the giving act of oh, think of others,
Speaker 1: be nice. It's the I know that I have value
Speaker 1: and I make a difference and I'm bringing something to
Speaker 1: the table, and that gives you a sense of purpose,
Speaker 1: that gives you a confidence that you can keep going,
Speaker 1: that gives you hope. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple different
Speaker 1: things that you write about that that I would love
Speaker 1: to touch on, but I'm going to pick one of
Speaker 1: them to start with, which is really you talk about
Speaker 1: that if you anchor yourself in kindness as an identity,
Speaker 1: I am kindness. You say you can remain anchored your
Speaker 1: authentic identity by being kind. And then you also say,
Speaker 1: my first answer to who are you? Is always I
Speaker 1: am kind And then one more line, which is I
Speaker 1: may feel lost, yet I have not lost myself when
Speaker 1: I orient around kindness. I love the dictionary. I love
Speaker 1: looking up the meaning of words and the root meaning
Speaker 1: of words, and I was looking up what is kindness
Speaker 1: really defined? As do you know, do I even really
Speaker 1: have my own definition of kindness? Or am I missing it?
Speaker 1: Maybe even? And when you look it up kind it's
Speaker 1: used in the same family of words as genus and species, right,
Speaker 1: we all know humankind. And I thought, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it was like a light bulbing on. We are all kind,
Speaker 1: we are all meant to be kind. Life is unkind.
Speaker 1: But I've asked people, I've walked up to them, friends, colleagues,
Speaker 1: and said do you love yourself? And usually I get
Speaker 1: this very soft pause, almost like, well, I'm a good person, okay,
Speaker 1: but you didn't answer the question. And when you ask
Speaker 1: somebody who are you? If I ask you who are you,
Speaker 1: sometimes they give me their name. Sometimes they give me
Speaker 1: their job description, their title, where they're from, their nationality.
Speaker 1: But you know, I once heard this talk done by
Speaker 1: this woman who I know, and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: just like a diamond, I'm valuable. When you look at
Speaker 1: a diamond, you know it's valuable. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: do anything for you. It just sits there really and
Speaker 1: looks pretty. And so I just thought, if we all
Speaker 1: saw each other as treasure, and kindness causes us to
Speaker 1: know that the true essence of us, who we really are,
Speaker 1: is who we are when we're kind to other people,
Speaker 1: how we treat ourselves, how we love ourselves, and how
Speaker 1: we love other people. I am very interested in Buddhism
Speaker 1: and do a lot of studying. And there's that basic
Speaker 1: idea that underlies Buddhism is that when you see us
Speaker 1: all as one, or as connected or as humankind, kindness
Speaker 1: and compassion naturally arises. Yes, yeah, And I think that
Speaker 1: being kinder to ourselves and seeing ourselves as kind, Like
Speaker 1: I am kind. So even if I've lost my job
Speaker 1: I'm furloughed or laid off. Even if you take all
Speaker 1: my money away from me and now I'm broke or bankrupt,
Speaker 1: even if I have to move back in with my parents,
Speaker 1: I haven't lost my real self. Who I am is
Speaker 1: still who I am. So what would you say to
Speaker 1: people who say, well, I think that sounds great, But
Speaker 1: I sure don't feel very kind. I feel grumpy with
Speaker 1: a lot of people. I look out at the world
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't like this person, and this
Speaker 1: person makes me angry. And kindness it sounds like something
Speaker 1: I want, but to identify with it sounds very difficult
Speaker 1: because I barely feel it. I don't think it's based
Speaker 1: on a feeling. I think it's a choice, just like love.
Speaker 1: Interview married people, and half of them at any given
Speaker 1: time are going to say, I don't really feel like
Speaker 1: being married right now, or I don't feel like this big, fuzzy, warm,
Speaker 1: loving honeymoon feeling anymore. But I'm committed to this relationship.
Speaker 1: I choose this spouse or this partner, I'm in it.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to leave. And when you have a
Speaker 1: child and that child doesn't act the way that you want,
Speaker 1: you don't quit on that child, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know some parents have quit on their children. I
Speaker 1: know that, and some children have quit on their parents,
Speaker 1: But the essence of pure love defies the circumstances. Believe me,
Speaker 1: writing this book, I realized how much more I needed
Speaker 1: to grow in kindness. Writing this book, my kindness was
Speaker 1: tested more than it probably ever has been. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I just thought that was fascinating that my you know,
Speaker 1: relationships taught me so much more about how I could
Speaker 1: grow and how I could become more of who I am.
Speaker 1: In light of studying such a positive, upbeat message, and
Speaker 1: I think we need to be realistic. There are going
Speaker 1: to be times when you're unkind while you're pursuing kindness.
Speaker 1: There are going to be times you say the wrong thing,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you're not kind it means you
Speaker 1: had a moment. You know, if I you know, if
Speaker 1: you define yourself as a podcast our host, or I
Speaker 1: can I define myself as a journalist. That doesn't change
Speaker 1: just because I'm not working on the mic at the moment,
Speaker 1: or you aren't working on the mic at the moment.
Speaker 1: You're still a host of a podcast, you just aren't
Speaker 1: being that host in this very time when we're going
Speaker 1: out to dinner, going to Walgreens or whatever. So I
Speaker 1: think people need to give themselves a break because we
Speaker 1: are human and we have times where we want to
Speaker 1: retract our words and we can't, and so we have
Speaker 1: to forgive ourselves and forgive other people a lot. Do
Speaker 1: you find that kindness is something that the more you
Speaker 1: do it, the more likely you are to do it,
Speaker 1: and the more you are likely to think about it.
Speaker 1: It grows by practicing it. Yeah, I call it muscle memory,
Speaker 1: you know, knee jerk response. I think the problem that
Speaker 1: we've had as a culture is to say to people
Speaker 1: be kind, to say to children be kind, But we
Speaker 1: don't define what those actionable steps are. And so if
Speaker 1: we have a plan of kindness, I call it my
Speaker 1: fitness plan, where it's more regimented, and that doesn't mean scripted,
Speaker 1: that just means more intentionality around it. You know, what
Speaker 1: kind acts can you do on a daily basis, On
Speaker 1: a weekly basis, you know, by the end of the year,
Speaker 1: can you say that you did something kind for an
Speaker 1: organization or cause that creates the ability for you to
Speaker 1: be more consciously kind. Right, So you're really advocating that
Speaker 1: we need to, in essence, schedule a certain degree of
Speaker 1: being kind. I mean, there's a certain response that happens
Speaker 1: as we go about our lives, and we can talk
Speaker 1: about that, and we will. But in addition, you're saying
Speaker 1: that one way to make sure that we're being more
Speaker 1: kind is to actually plan for it like we would
Speaker 1: anything else that we actually wanted to make sure got done.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that this generation, and when I
Speaker 1: say this generation, I don't mean millennials, I don't mean
Speaker 1: the youth necessarily. I mean everybody, everybody who's living in
Speaker 1: this current generation of chaos, confusion, division, all of this, Right,
Speaker 1: I think the majority of us are crying out for
Speaker 1: some answer, some hope, give me something to work with,
Speaker 1: you know, right, And a lot of that has come
Speaker 1: about through the fitness and health community. You know, intermitute fasting,
Speaker 1: know about intermittent fasting twenty years ago, you know, but
Speaker 1: it's wildly known today and even teenagers know what intermittent
Speaker 1: fasting is now. Right. So, but I think there's this
Speaker 1: passionate desire that people need fed to be better people
Speaker 1: for everyone, Like how do we become better as a society?
Speaker 1: And so I think that the intentionality that I write
Speaker 1: about in this book is so that we would focus
Speaker 1: on kindness rather than focusing on the problems, because you
Speaker 1: don't get to solution focusing on problems. You get to
Speaker 1: solutions by saying, Okay, what is working, what can we
Speaker 1: do that's outside of the box, let's brainstorm here. I
Speaker 1: want to become one of those people, and I believe
Speaker 1: that I work on it every day that while the
Speaker 1: chaos is going on, I'm somebody who can keep my
Speaker 1: head in the game. And that's what everyone who is
Speaker 1: kind does. You can stay calm and chaos because you've
Speaker 1: developed that muscle of kindness, and you actually are the
Speaker 1: problem solvers and the leaders in the middle of a
Speaker 1: time where people are going here and there and everywhere
Speaker 1: and are distracted and losing focus and depressed and sad,
Speaker 1: and there's no judgment to that. I've definitely battled my
Speaker 1: own mental issues while going through this year. But I
Speaker 1: think that we have to treat kindness as important as
Speaker 1: we treat innovation in science or getting a master's degree
Speaker 1: or starting our own business, because if we aren't kind,
Speaker 1: we're not going to last in whatever endeavor we do.
Speaker 1: In the book, you have a line that I love,
Speaker 1: which is I believe it, and I say it all
Speaker 1: the time that I'm here to bring peace, answers, and
Speaker 1: my unique abilities to every situation. And I absolutely love
Speaker 1: that because I think we can all bring whatever peace
Speaker 1: we can bring, whatever answers we have, and whatever abilities
Speaker 1: we have to every situation that we go into, and
Speaker 1: that if we go into those situations with that intent,
Speaker 1: it changes things. Yeah, and I think it gives us
Speaker 1: the confirmation that we are all unique and all needed.
Speaker 1: You know, I've really been just in this past thirty days,
Speaker 1: really pressing into what does family really mean? Because I've
Speaker 1: always been somebody who's welcomed people into the family, strangers,
Speaker 1: complete strangers, like I'd be like, yeah, why don't you
Speaker 1: come with me, and directing them to the kinds of
Speaker 1: things and resources and people that have helped me in
Speaker 1: my life. But I'm really asking, like, what does it
Speaker 1: mean to really elevate the idea of family and unity?
Speaker 1: We hear about again the problem. But when I recognize
Speaker 1: how vital I am a part of this greater whole,
Speaker 1: then we all start to shine like stars. And so
Speaker 1: when I bring my unique perspective to the table, when
Speaker 1: I bring my gifts and talents that are just a
Speaker 1: little bit different, but so vastly different than anyone else
Speaker 1: on the planet, you know, I call us kindness makes
Speaker 1: you unduplicatable because people are striving for being special, or
Speaker 1: being known, or being significant, and we already are those things.
Speaker 1: But if we think that we are disordinary, then we
Speaker 1: won't necessarily bring the same level of peace and confidence,
Speaker 1: and we won't have the unifying force that we need
Speaker 1: that knits us all together and brings us together. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things I loved in the book is
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories about kindness in your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the vast majority of them have nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the fact that you are a you know, national
Speaker 1: news anchor in a position of you know, relative fame
Speaker 1: in comparison to most people. But The stories of kindness
Speaker 1: aren't about that. They're not about I was able to
Speaker 1: do this great kindness because of this position I'm in. Now,
Speaker 1: there's some of that, of course, we all have that,
Speaker 1: But most of your kindness is that you describe are
Speaker 1: these very ordinary things that anyone can do. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only chapter where I talk about it specifically being
Speaker 1: something that I could do, you know, or very people
Speaker 1: could do, was when I talk about interviews with different celebrities,
Speaker 1: But that could be used and translated to a job
Speaker 1: interview or an interview with, you know, a new client,
Speaker 1: or a conversation making new connections, whether they be romantic
Speaker 1: or friendships or whatever. You know, everything's relative. And I
Speaker 1: think that kindness is very I don't know what the
Speaker 1: right word is, but it's it's because I don't want
Speaker 1: to oversimplify it, but it's something within all of our grasp, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, thanking people for the kind things that they do,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody helping me get my bag out from
Speaker 1: the overhead bin is one of my favorite things in
Speaker 1: the world. Like, I'm so profusely grateful when somebody does
Speaker 1: that for me. Thanking anyone for being kind when I
Speaker 1: see them on the street helping somebody out. Anybody can
Speaker 1: do that kind of a kindness. The other day, a
Speaker 1: woman I was getting into an elevator and I thought
Speaker 1: it was two people to an elevator, but in this
Speaker 1: particular building, it was only one. And so she was
Speaker 1: in the elevator with her stuff and I started walking in.
Speaker 1: I said, can I come in? Because I like to
Speaker 1: add ask people now, because people are very guarded, especially
Speaker 1: in some of these urban environments. And she snapped at me.
Speaker 1: Read the sign it's one person to an elevator, and
Speaker 1: I said, oh, forgive me. I thought it was too
Speaker 1: I stayed so calm. Now. I can't tell you how
Speaker 1: much growth that is, because I remember a time in
Speaker 1: my life, many moons ago, where I would have been like,
Speaker 1: what is your problem? I'm not coming near you, okay,
Speaker 1: Like I'll go away, like you know, just out of
Speaker 1: emotional response or whatever. But I understood I was empathetic
Speaker 1: with where she was. However, that barking fear, I know
Speaker 1: that's rooted in fear. It's not personal to me. And
Speaker 1: so one part of kindness that I talk about is
Speaker 1: like when somebody else is unkind Because that wasn't very kind.
Speaker 1: Her tone was not kind. It was very much like
Speaker 1: to stay away. That doesn't affect me as much because
Speaker 1: I'm kind anxious of that muscle of kindness in an
Speaker 1: everyday capacity. So as you're doing that everyday active kindness,
Speaker 1: you're actually working it out in your own life so
Speaker 1: that you'll be ready for those moments when people are
Speaker 1: less than kind. I think an element of kindness is
Speaker 1: it being proactive. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 1: not only do you seek it out, but that the
Speaker 1: way other people behave doesn't drive the way we behave.
Speaker 1: That's a high aspiration, but it's certainly one that I have,
Speaker 1: which is like, I don't want to treat other people
Speaker 1: just the way they treat me, because some people, you
Speaker 1: treat anybody poorly right right at any given Yeah, my
Speaker 1: bar is a little higher than that for how I
Speaker 1: want to be to others. Yeah. Well, and that's what
Speaker 1: I tell people, because often I get asked that in
Speaker 1: events and speaking events and stuff. They'll say, well, what
Speaker 1: do you do when someone's unkind to you? And I say,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give somebody else the power to
Speaker 1: determine my reaction, because then you're stealing your own power. Away,
Speaker 1: or you're allowing somebody to take that from you. And
Speaker 1: what true empowerment is is my determination to say no
Speaker 1: to being just merely reactive. And like you said, it's
Speaker 1: a proactive response because I've already made the decision. I
Speaker 1: have already made the decision of how I'm going to
Speaker 1: respond in those tense moments. And right now. There is
Speaker 1: a lot of tension in every facet of life. Yep,
Speaker 1: there is, And I think it's always important to say, like,
Speaker 1: not responding doesn't mean you allow somebody to walk all
Speaker 1: over you or treat you badly, but there are lots
Speaker 1: of sort of small insults that just don't need a response.
Speaker 1: You've got a code of conduct you describe later in
Speaker 1: the book, and I don't know if it's specific for work,
Speaker 1: but there's a line in it that I love, and
Speaker 1: you say, decide that inside every grouchy person is a
Speaker 1: lovely human. Yeah. Well, yeah, speaking of high bars, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I've had to work with people and personalities
Speaker 1: that are very large in the media industry. I've had
Speaker 1: to work with people who have not been respected their
Speaker 1: whole career, and so when you run into people who
Speaker 1: have felt kind of slighted or you know, just not
Speaker 1: loved on respected. You realize it, and then you endeavor
Speaker 1: using kindness not to make up for all the years
Speaker 1: that they had hard life. You know, I can't dissect
Speaker 1: or psychoanalyze all that. My job is to say, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to show you a little extra
Speaker 1: respect and honor, just so you know that there's somebody
Speaker 1: that wrecks recognizes the good work that you do and
Speaker 1: the things that you do. And I've met grouchy people
Speaker 1: in and out of my industry. It's in every industry, right,
Speaker 1: but I've worked with people who in the beginning it
Speaker 1: seemed like they did not like me at all, and
Speaker 1: I just decided. I remember seeing glimpses of hope and
Speaker 1: people who are really grouchier, you know, and I would say,
Speaker 1: you know what, but you're a sweetheart, because then they
Speaker 1: would maybe be the ones that would like take you
Speaker 1: to their favorite restaurant or their favorite grocery store and
Speaker 1: show you the things that they would get that you
Speaker 1: only could get there. Like inside of every person that's
Speaker 1: hurting or who sends out hurtfulwards is someone who has
Speaker 1: a gentle soft spot. I really highly believe that and
Speaker 1: if we would see that, we wouldn't reject people just
Speaker 1: because of their harsh or what seems harsh delivery. How
Speaker 1: do you apply that idea in today's world, where you know,
Speaker 1: we're dealing with issues of say racial inequality or different
Speaker 1: things where it can feel really difficult to see some
Speaker 1: people who seem to believe or act in ways that
Speaker 1: seem pretty harmful. To find that lovely human in there,
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, the people who I've met
Speaker 1: who could be harmful, it's like any abuse or negative trait.
Speaker 1: I can't focus on that. I can really only be
Speaker 1: responsible for myself. In that moment, I really choose to
Speaker 1: focus more on who I'm going to be. You know.
Speaker 1: I had a friend who mentioned something about family or
Speaker 1: friends having these difficult conversations and it turning into a debate,
Speaker 1: and then asking me, what do you do you know?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, are you going to change their
Speaker 1: mind right now? That's my question? Are you going to
Speaker 1: change their mind right now? They said no, they're not
Speaker 1: listening to me. They're just defiant. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I know who you are, and that's really the only
Speaker 1: thing I know for sure. I know who you are.
Speaker 1: Focus on that. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting
Speaker 1: discussion to be in these days, because that's in general
Speaker 1: my approach. My approach is generally like, is this person
Speaker 1: going to change their mind? Is anything I'm going to
Speaker 1: say going to have any effect? And if the answer
Speaker 1: to that is largely no, then I just try and
Speaker 1: interact with them in whatever best way I can. I
Speaker 1: have started, though, with everything that's been happening in a
Speaker 1: dynamic that we've been having, to wonder is that being
Speaker 1: too apathetic or is it just wisdom? And I'm not
Speaker 1: sure which it is, And I know some of it
Speaker 1: depends on my motive. Am I not engaging in a
Speaker 1: difficult conversation that I could have with somebody that might
Speaker 1: be very valuable because I'm afraid? Or is it genuinely
Speaker 1: there's no benefit to come from having an argument here
Speaker 1: with this person? Well? I talk a lot about social
Speaker 1: media and the book and the positive uses for the
Speaker 1: tool that it can be, and I think that we
Speaker 1: have to all be really more conscious of what we
Speaker 1: say and how we say it. And that can be
Speaker 1: at a dinner table or on a phone conversation, or
Speaker 1: it could be on Facebook or social media. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and we can say things that can
Speaker 1: be triggering, and so again, I think that the focus
Speaker 1: has to be on ourselves. That doesn't mean that change
Speaker 1: doesn't need to happen. It doesn't negate the horrific effects
Speaker 1: of some of the things that we're facing as a society.
Speaker 1: But I think that individually we have a responsibility to
Speaker 1: do the inner work and to be more conscious of
Speaker 1: what we're saying. And I say this, I think I
Speaker 1: might have used I don't know if I used a
Speaker 1: celebrity in this example, but you know a lot of celebs,
Speaker 1: like they can post on their own page, but some
Speaker 1: of them have a team of people that have to
Speaker 1: vet what they say, you know, a publicist or a
Speaker 1: manager or something like that, or make sure of what
Speaker 1: they're saying. And it's like, if you have a question
Speaker 1: in your mind about what you're about to post, if
Speaker 1: it could be offensive, potentially, have somebody else look at
Speaker 1: it before you share it, because maybe you didn't mean
Speaker 1: it that way, but it could be taken a certain way.
Speaker 1: And so again, I think I choose to focus on kindness.
Speaker 1: I choose to focus on doing the inner work in myself,
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day. The person that
Speaker 1: I can control, and that's a strong word, but the
Speaker 1: person that I have the power over is myself, and
Speaker 1: that will keep me again at peace and able to
Speaker 1: keep clear headed so that I can be perhaps a
Speaker 1: vessel to solve problems that are larger than me in
Speaker 1: days to come. Yep, that truism of you know, hate
Speaker 1: was never dispelled by hate. When I look around on
Speaker 1: social media, I'm like, this is the walking embodiment of
Speaker 1: that is people from both sides spewing hate, and it
Speaker 1: just revving up more hate. You know. Again, I have
Speaker 1: my positions of who I think are right in a
Speaker 1: lot of different things and where the real harm is,
Speaker 1: but almost nobody seems to be Like if you're like,
Speaker 1: you're an e F and jery and you're an idiot
Speaker 1: and you're stupid, almost nobody goes a good point. I
Speaker 1: never thought of that. Thank you for bringing that to
Speaker 1: my attention. But yet we think that's how it works,
Speaker 1: but it never does well. There's a wall social media
Speaker 1: seems to create where we dehumanize one another widely. And
Speaker 1: what I have learned about social media is to treat
Speaker 1: it like it's the initial meeting with someone like This
Speaker 1: is my handshake now, So whatever I post, this is
Speaker 1: my first impression with you. And even if I've interacted
Speaker 1: with other people on the feed or in the comments, somebody,
Speaker 1: for somebody looking at what I'm about to post, this
Speaker 1: is their handshake moment that doesn't exist anymore because of
Speaker 1: distance and COVID and all that stuff. This is the
Speaker 1: elbow bomp. So how would you want to be perceived?
Speaker 1: Every time I post? How would I want to be perceived?
Speaker 1: Because there's going to be new eyes on it from
Speaker 1: a first at a cocktail party, and that's how I post. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you say in the book that your mother used to
Speaker 1: say to you, Adrian, somebody is always watching, and that
Speaker 1: that approach, and similar to what you said a minute ago.
Speaker 1: You also said don't say anything anywhere to anyone by
Speaker 1: and large, that you wouldn't want to be broadcast on
Speaker 1: national TV. Yeah. I think it's an interesting way of
Speaker 1: looking at things. I'm not sure that like that necessarily
Speaker 1: applies to some of my interactions with my friends, where
Speaker 1: I'm sharing things that are going on inside me that
Speaker 1: I might be like, well, I'm not ready to announce
Speaker 1: that to the whole world, But in general, it's a
Speaker 1: pretty good way to look at the world. I think
Speaker 1: that hot mics exist all around us today. You know,
Speaker 1: at one time long ago, you could get away with
Speaker 1: certain things that you can't get away with, if that's
Speaker 1: the right way to say it. Now. It's not like
Speaker 1: I walk around thinking everybody's staring at me. It's like
Speaker 1: I walk around like one person could see something I'm
Speaker 1: doing and be affected by it, and not necessarily the
Speaker 1: right One person could pull out their cell phone and
Speaker 1: record you, and you're not acting in the way that
Speaker 1: would best be representative of who you are. I look
Speaker 1: at it almost like when you have your friend's kids
Speaker 1: with you, So you're the one with the children that
Speaker 1: aren't yours, and now you're the one setting an example.
Speaker 1: What are you doing that they see you doing that
Speaker 1: they could mimic that might not best be suited for them.
Speaker 1: And when you look at it through a child's eyes,
Speaker 1: you know, when we're around certain people, we actually straighten
Speaker 1: up and act better. And that's what I see kids
Speaker 1: do too. So we all need to just just be
Speaker 1: the best us, you know, realize that we do make
Speaker 1: a difference. Everything we do matters, and it creates a
Speaker 1: ripple effect for good or for bad. Tell me a
Speaker 1: couple of your favorite stories about kindness from the book,
Speaker 1: whether it be a kindness that you were able to do,
Speaker 1: a kindness that somebody did to you, a kindness that
Speaker 1: you witnessed. But tell me some stories that bring this
Speaker 1: point out. One of my favorite stories as I heard
Speaker 1: about a woman who wanted to get married when I
Speaker 1: have kids. It's been years and she still hasn't gotten
Speaker 1: married or had kids, and so someone deer in her
Speaker 1: life mailed her a package and there was a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff in the box. It kind of looked like
Speaker 1: a hodgepodge of stuff, like they'd sent her the wrong stuff.
Speaker 1: And she's looking at each item and it's like a
Speaker 1: boy's T shirt and like a coffee mug that says
Speaker 1: best Dad Ever, and like a journal with a football
Speaker 1: on it, and she's like, what is this? Like this
Speaker 1: was not supposed to be for me. And she makes
Speaker 1: a call to the store that shipped her the items
Speaker 1: and said, I think there was a mistake, and the
Speaker 1: person on the other end of the line said, no,
Speaker 1: those are your Christmas presents for your sons and your husband.
Speaker 1: And she started to cry because what they did was
Speaker 1: they they said, this is going to be given. You're
Speaker 1: going to get married, you're going to have kids, and
Speaker 1: this is your way of seeing it happen. So wrap
Speaker 1: the gifts and put them under the tree. And for
Speaker 1: the first time ever in her life, she wrote to
Speaker 1: my son, love mom. And she wept because she'd never
Speaker 1: seen herself as a mom, and she never said that
Speaker 1: she was a mom. It really changed her life. There's
Speaker 1: another story in the book that I love about kindness
Speaker 1: because you say that kindness can be an anchor to
Speaker 1: us when we're struggling, when we feel lost. I read
Speaker 1: that quote earlier, but you tell a story about where
Speaker 1: kindness was an anchor to you when you were going
Speaker 1: through a really difficult period. Are you talking about the
Speaker 1: host story? Yeah, yeah, So for me, I was just
Speaker 1: telling somebody a facet of that story because literally I
Speaker 1: was racking up so much debt from having not had
Speaker 1: a job for a very short period of time. But still,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't have any income coming in,
Speaker 1: then you can rack up some debt. Trying not to
Speaker 1: eat out because I didn't want to put more debt
Speaker 1: on the credit card, and just seeing the figures and
Speaker 1: continuing to give responsibly in different ways and be kind
Speaker 1: and generous. And I had to work at a restaurant.
Speaker 1: And I remember going to one restaurant and interviewing and
Speaker 1: the gentleman, the general manager, said, I've never had a
Speaker 1: journalist asked me for a job as a waitress. And
Speaker 1: I looked at him and said, that's but it's respectable work.
Speaker 1: And then I went home and cried because I just
Speaker 1: felt like God like what he said. He wasn't meaning
Speaker 1: to be mean, it was just harsh for me. I
Speaker 1: think the backstory might be helpful of Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: making quite a good bit of money in my career before,
Speaker 1: and you know, something happened, a deal fell through, and
Speaker 1: so then it was like immediately nothing so going from
Speaker 1: I was going to be working making decent money, and
Speaker 1: then the deal fell through and I was making zero.
Speaker 1: I would either have had to not eat or go
Speaker 1: work somewhere. And you know, I tried to get freelance
Speaker 1: jobs or like pr jobs, and nothing was working. And
Speaker 1: so finally I got hired as a hostess at a
Speaker 1: restaurant making minimum wage. And I remember signing all of
Speaker 1: my employee paperwork on my birthday and thinking, this is
Speaker 1: the worst day ever, and went home and cried because
Speaker 1: it wasn't about like being a hostess is a bad thing.
Speaker 1: It was about how little I was going to be
Speaker 1: making compared to what I did before, and how I
Speaker 1: knew it was temporary, but it was like, this is
Speaker 1: not the way I wanted my life to turn out.
Speaker 1: And so I put my chin up, thank goodness for
Speaker 1: mentors and life and friends, and went into work at
Speaker 1: that place. And it was just down the street from
Speaker 1: the company that was going to be hiring me where
Speaker 1: the deal fell through, and the woman who was kind
Speaker 1: of negotiating the deal with me had a lunch reservation
Speaker 1: like four or five days into me working there, and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, what am I going to do?
Speaker 1: Like she's walking in here and she's going to see
Speaker 1: me and think, what are you doing here? And so
Speaker 1: I went into the coat closet and I rehearsed what
Speaker 1: I would say in response. So she walks in, I
Speaker 1: greet her with a big smile and I say hi,
Speaker 1: and just like I thought, she says, what are you
Speaker 1: doing here? And I said, well, I'm a host on
Speaker 1: TV and I'm a host here. Let me show you
Speaker 1: to your seat. And I did it with no shame.
Speaker 1: I did it with no you know, I just was kind.
Speaker 1: I was just I didn't bring up anything. I just
Speaker 1: let me show you to your seat. And she looked
Speaker 1: at me with these big like her eyes got as
Speaker 1: big as saucers, and she was like, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about you. I'm going to call you next week, okay,
Speaker 1: or later this week or whatever she said. But I
Speaker 1: said sure, and no problem. Enjoy your lunch. And I
Speaker 1: sat her down and I continued with my workday, and
Speaker 1: within a week I had a new contract. And I
Speaker 1: later learned that that woman who now is a friend,
Speaker 1: went back to the office upon seeing me and said,
Speaker 1: we've got to get her something. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was because I was doing what it took,
Speaker 1: you know, seeing me take it really seriously to pursue
Speaker 1: this dream, or it was meant to be. It was
Speaker 1: really meant to be, but it was extremely difficult, and
Speaker 1: I was only at that restaurant a very very very
Speaker 1: short time. But that time was hard. But I understand
Speaker 1: people go through things and you have to remember where
Speaker 1: you belong. So I definitely found home base again, yeap,
Speaker 1: And I loved that in the midst of that, and
Speaker 1: multiple other times you reorient around all right, I'm not
Speaker 1: where I want to be, I'm not doing what I
Speaker 1: want to do. Necessarily, things aren't working out the way
Speaker 1: I want them to work out. I'm still going to
Speaker 1: orient myself around being kind yeah, because that really is
Speaker 1: your pivot point. You've got to be secure in something.
Speaker 1: And when the floor falls out from under you, and
Speaker 1: when life crumbles all around you it looks like your
Speaker 1: dreams are completely gone, then it's like, okay, what can
Speaker 1: I rely on? What? Okay? What's true? And the one
Speaker 1: thing I can do is treat people well. The one
Speaker 1: thing I can do is believe that people will be
Speaker 1: kind to me, because that's one of the greatest mechanisms
Speaker 1: of kindness to me, is that when you practice kindness,
Speaker 1: you actually have hope that other people will be kind
Speaker 1: to you. It's like what you put out karma, it'll
Speaker 1: come back. And so you don't have a problem believing
Speaker 1: that somebody, whether it was the woman who walked into
Speaker 1: that restaurant or another person or another gig, like, somebody
Speaker 1: is going to be kind to me because I believe
Speaker 1: in kindness and they're going to help me just because
Speaker 1: you know, not because of you know, good looks, charm
Speaker 1: and personality, but because they are kind. And there's a
Speaker 1: lot of kind people in the world, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of kind people in business. And I think that
Speaker 1: people forget that that you don't get a door opened
Speaker 1: unto you because you are so talented necessarily or so
Speaker 1: amazing or so passionate. You get a door open to
Speaker 1: you because that person on the other side, the decision maker,
Speaker 1: is actually a kind, herded individual who says, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a shot. So what are
Speaker 1: some tangible ways that people can be more kind? I
Speaker 1: think this is where a lot of us run up
Speaker 1: into trouble. We go This sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1: I want to do it, but I'm not really sure
Speaker 1: what to do. I think that we have to decide that,
Speaker 1: no matter what, kindness can't be canceled. You know, COVID
Speaker 1: is canceled a lot of things, including eating out and
Speaker 1: going to stadiums and going to arenas and going to theater.
Speaker 1: But being kind and giving a touch that's your own,
Speaker 1: you know, a phone call is extremely kind. I talked
Speaker 1: to somebody today. I've been talked to you in a while.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm so glad we're making time today because
Speaker 1: you could be calling five other people right now. But
Speaker 1: they kindly said something about, no, I want to be
Speaker 1: talking to you right now. Sending somebody a video message.
Speaker 1: You know. It's something I started with Good Morning America,
Speaker 1: like how you can be kind and use it practically.
Speaker 1: So text messages started to really bug me because all
Speaker 1: I saw was text emails, text text messages. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm so tired of seeing words on a screen.
Speaker 1: But I was so hungry to see people's face, and
Speaker 1: so I would shoot like ten to thirty second videos
Speaker 1: and be like, you're amazing, can't wait to see your face.
Speaker 1: You're a rock star. I appreciate you. Press end like
Speaker 1: just a selfie video, and people loved it. People were like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's good to see you. I love
Speaker 1: this and they would smile. And those are really easy ways.
Speaker 1: And one way that I also suggested was venmoing people
Speaker 1: you know. Thank goodness for apps like Vinmo and even zell.
Speaker 1: For people whose bank accounts are linked the cash app,
Speaker 1: just try somebody you know put ten bucks in their
Speaker 1: account and say, hey, coffee's on me next time you
Speaker 1: go because we're not spending money taking people to lunch.
Speaker 1: We're not having dinners after work. And so it's like, listen,
Speaker 1: you know, even if it's five bucks, like it's just
Speaker 1: the thought that you would say, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about you today. I know five bucks, you know, don't
Speaker 1: even explain it. There's no too small or too big,
Speaker 1: you know, if you want used in fifty bucks. But
Speaker 1: the other thing I said was you can get food
Speaker 1: delivered to somebody. There's amazing restaurants. We can support our
Speaker 1: local restaurant community. Order take out for somebody, just send it.
Speaker 1: There's so many apps. I'm not going to even name
Speaker 1: all of them because that's a whole bunch of advertising
Speaker 1: right now. But there's so many apps, and they can
Speaker 1: you know, get their favorite meal and just be like
Speaker 1: lunch on me, dinner on me. Distance doesn't stop us
Speaker 1: from shopping, so why should it stop us from being kind?
Speaker 1: I love it. Another way that I see you demonstrate
Speaker 1: a lot of kindness that I really like, and I
Speaker 1: think it's a place that's accessible to all is the
Speaker 1: people we work with. Yes, it's huge. We spend more
Speaker 1: time working than anything, right, What are some ways to
Speaker 1: be kinder to the people we work with. Well, number
Speaker 1: one is And I told this to a gentleman who
Speaker 1: was kind of an engineer type, and he said, I
Speaker 1: admit that I don't have that in me to like
Speaker 1: think of kindness all the time. So can you give
Speaker 1: me an idea? And I said, well, why don't you
Speaker 1: schedule a kindness call and call one of your team
Speaker 1: members or a colleague that you don't talk to every
Speaker 1: single day but you have worked with pretty you know, intensely,
Speaker 1: or on a project. Whatever. Schedule it, like you schedule
Speaker 1: your meetings. So at eleven am, say hey, I only
Speaker 1: have five minutes, but I wanted to tell you I
Speaker 1: was thinking about you. I only have fifteen minutes. Like
Speaker 1: start the call saying listen, I had five minutes, but
Speaker 1: you have been on my mind. How are you? What's
Speaker 1: going on? Let that person talk, because what happens is
Speaker 1: we end up communicating with coworkers just when we need something,
Speaker 1: and all of the long video conferences that people grow
Speaker 1: so weary it's like, are you kidding me? Back to back?
Speaker 1: But to have the refreshing of somebody who will take
Speaker 1: the time. One of the things that I do inside
Speaker 1: the company is I have this group of women who
Speaker 1: meets regularly and it's a mentor moderator type role that
Speaker 1: I play, and just listening to their stories and being
Speaker 1: an ear or a shoulder or you know, a trusted
Speaker 1: safe place that they can rely on every week has
Speaker 1: been really beneficial for all of us. And so maybe
Speaker 1: you need to have a gift exchange or one thing
Speaker 1: I did was we had the whole group and it
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, we're selecting one person, and that one
Speaker 1: person we're all going to give a Venmo gift to.
Speaker 1: You can pick any denomination and then they can do
Speaker 1: whatever they want with the money. They can go get
Speaker 1: their nails done, or they can donate it. And just
Speaker 1: if you have enough people that could kind of back
Speaker 1: up the money. But maybe they need that encouragement, maybe
Speaker 1: they need a few extra bucks this month. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to cost money, but it's thinking of
Speaker 1: others from the standpoint of most of us right now
Speaker 1: need an ear, need a place of conversation and connection
Speaker 1: that isn't available every day because we're being demanded of
Speaker 1: to just produce, produce content, produce solutions for our company.
Speaker 1: And I'll just tell you one more story. There was
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. He works in the sports industry,
Speaker 1: and he got furloughed and he started reading the book
Speaker 1: and he sent me the sweetest message and said, listen,
Speaker 1: I got furloughed. They called me and instead of responding
Speaker 1: like they thought I was going to, which was an
Speaker 1: anger and kind of like, how dare you like I've
Speaker 1: done so much for you over all these years, I
Speaker 1: was kind and because of my gentle response, they actually
Speaker 1: offered me a full time job. Was just a slight
Speaker 1: pay cut, he said, I know it was because I
Speaker 1: was more conscious of kindness after reading this. So I
Speaker 1: shared that with a publicist in Nashville because she asked,
Speaker 1: you know about the book, and she said, it's so
Speaker 1: funny that we're talking about this today because I was
Speaker 1: at the grocery store and somebody's baby fell out of
Speaker 1: the shopping cart and hit their head on that cement floor,
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh my gosh. And she said I
Speaker 1: was calm, and the mom was so thankful to me
Speaker 1: and said thank you for being kind. And she said
Speaker 1: I didn't administer a medical assistant. She said, I just
Speaker 1: helped pick up the baby and make sure the baby
Speaker 1: was off the ground. And she said, but I remember
Speaker 1: that the mom was so needing somebody to just be
Speaker 1: calm with her. And so one kind thing you can
Speaker 1: do besides being kind yourself and practicing those every day,
Speaker 1: just being situationally aware of others, is share stories of
Speaker 1: kindness with your colleagues. Tell them what's going on. Because
Speaker 1: that created this ripple effect throughout the day where she
Speaker 1: was encouraged. I was encouraged. The guy I know in
Speaker 1: the sports industry was encouraged because we were all sharing
Speaker 1: these stories of inspiration where good was the center. You know,
Speaker 1: we often share what's going on with us vent you know,
Speaker 1: oh my god, all this is going wrong, but there
Speaker 1: is good happening, and we do have great expectation when
Speaker 1: we anticipate more of that. Hope. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: I think that there is always good happening. It's a
Speaker 1: question of what do we want to orient towards it.
Speaker 1: We're always choosing do we want to see the good
Speaker 1: or the bad? Because it both is there. You can't
Speaker 1: hit a target you don't see, and so if we
Speaker 1: just see the world as broken, we have problems. We
Speaker 1: have severe problems. But I have to believe that the
Speaker 1: target that I'm aiming for is not to magnify the problem.
Speaker 1: The target that I'm aiming for is to say we
Speaker 1: are growing closer and closer to the hope and the
Speaker 1: picture that we dreamed of for ourselves and for our
Speaker 1: children and children's children. Well, I think that is a
Speaker 1: beautiful place for us to wrap up. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to come on, for sharing
Speaker 1: your story of kindness for the book, and it is
Speaker 1: a really needed message right now. Thank you. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited and grateful and thank you for allowing me
Speaker 1: to come on. And we certainly do know a lot
Speaker 1: more about being who we really are, so that what
Speaker 1: we feed consumes us in a good way. That's right, yep.
Speaker 1: And kindness is one of those attributes that the more
Speaker 1: we do it, the more it grows. Thank you, Eric.
Speaker 1: Thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you,
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