1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: The city of Austin gripped by fears of a serial 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: killer as law enforcement reveals thirty eight bodies thirty eight 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: three eight have been found in and around one lake 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: in the last days. Another victim, I'm Nancy Grace. This 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: That's right. In the last days, a grim. 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: Discovery made, a spokesperson for Austin PD says, a teen 9 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: boy goes missing Sunday as he was strolling along and 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: planning to kayak Lady Bird Lake. Authorities immediately launch a 11 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: search and rescue effort to no avail. Days later, a 12 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: paddle border makes a grim discovery, spotting the teen's body 13 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: floating in the water near a busy intersection at West 14 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: Riverside Drive at South Lamar Boulevard. 15 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: What happened to the teen boy? 16 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: The artificial lake, Ladybird Lake stretches over five miles. 17 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: Was this death an accident? 18 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: We may never know, but the backdrop is thirty eight 19 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: bodies found in and around Ladybird Lake. 20 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: For instance, there's Jeff Jones. 21 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: He flies into Austin last year for what he thought 22 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: would be a bachelor party. He went to dinner with 23 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: his friends and started and headed out to move on 24 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: to bars along West sixth Street. Around one am, he 25 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: got separated from his friend ends Two weeks later, he 26 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: wakes up in the hospital with metal rods supporting his back. 27 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: He doesn't remember a thing. Doctors find the date rape 28 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: drug or hypnol in his system and told him he 29 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: had been found in the water near a twenty five 30 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: foot high drop from a bridge. Terrified, Jones thinks he 31 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: was drugged and pushed by a potential serial killer that 32 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: many believe is roaming the streets of Austin. Listen to 33 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: Austin police officers speaking out. 34 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 3: Our initial information doesn't show anything suspicious, but we don't 35 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 3: make that final determination until the medical examiner has been 36 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: able to conduct their review. 37 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 4: As well. 38 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 5: A lot of bodies been pulled out of the water 39 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 5: off sir, Can you understand the public's concern, worries and 40 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 5: the heighten of alert. 41 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: Sure? Absolutely. 42 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: You know, one thing to keep in mind is that 43 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: Austin has thousands of acres of green space and water. 44 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 3: You know, it's a very nature focused large metropolitan area. 45 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 3: So you know, we would just encourage people to always 46 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 3: be aware of your surroundings, you know, and if you 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: can go with friends, keep yourself safe, right so that 48 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: way we don't have unfortunate incidents that that can occur. 49 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: What unfortunate incidents many people call it murder. 50 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: Now, I've been researching. 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: This and there are many bodies that have just been 52 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: recently pulled out of Lady Bird Lake, But all the 53 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 2: way back to two thousand and eight, there have been 54 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: suspicious deaths, bodies floating up in Ladybird Lake that have 55 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: been deemed accident or suicide. Specifically in two thousand and eight, 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: read hamad read a mod a dad, a husband, great job, 57 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: second job. 58 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: He's found dead in Ladybird Lake. 59 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: His hands and feet are bound and he has tape 60 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: over his mouth and nose. Witnesses saw it when he 61 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: was pulled out of the water. Multiple witnesses saw that 62 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: he was bound and duct taped. But it was ruled 63 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: a suicide. How did he bind his feet and hands, 64 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: get duct tape on his mouth and nose, and what 65 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: hobble into the water and flee himself in That's statistically impossible. 66 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: If you look at method and assessment of homicide and suicide, 67 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: that assessment is very wrong. But let's fast forward to 68 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: now cops and Austin still insisting it's all just a coincidence. 69 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: Agree or disagree. Another body just found. Take a listen 70 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: to Rachel Benia crime online. 71 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 6: Another body has been found in Eady Bird Lake in Austin. 72 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 6: At one thirty one pm, Austin Police respond to a 73 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 6: chech welfare urgent call after a nine to one to 74 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 6: one caller reports seeing a body about twenty feet off shore. 75 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 6: Police arrive at one thirty three pm, minutes after the 76 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 6: call is made and find a body of an unknown 77 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 6: person who's pronounced dead. So the body is found in 78 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 6: the same site where other deceased individuals have been recovered 79 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 6: in recent months. 80 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand what's happening. First of all, let's 81 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: go out to a special guest joining us, a Brianna 82 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: Hollis crime reporter k XA and News. 83 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: Brianna, thank you for being with us. 84 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: First of all, tell me about Lady bird Like. I 85 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 2: understand it's a man made. 86 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: Like to what hold water for a reservoir? 87 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 7: What is it correct for? You know, the average person 88 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 7: who hasn't been to Austin. It's referred to as the river. 89 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 7: It's I believe about four hundred and seventy acres of 90 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 7: service surface area, and it flows under the two major 91 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 7: highways in town, goes all through downtown, is lined by 92 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 7: a lot of green space, is close to bars, right 93 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 7: by a popular walking and hiking trail. 94 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: So let me understand Lady Bird Lake actually has a 95 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: ban on swimming in it, doesn't it. 96 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: For most parts of it? 97 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 8: Correct? 98 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: Because so many dead bodies have been fished out. 99 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 7: There's other reasons for that as well, just kind of 100 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 7: I believe general safety and bacteria in the water kind 101 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 7: of issues as well. 102 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: Okay, I understood that swimming was banned a few years 103 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: after Riat Hamad was found floating with his hands and 104 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: feet bound and duck tape. After a few more bodies 105 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: floated up and officers continued fishing them out, swimming was 106 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: in fact banned at Lady Bird Lake. 107 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: But let's move forward to what we know now. 108 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: Also near Ladybird Lake is a popular area that includes 109 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: food trucks, food trucks, and it's a long rainy street. 110 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: Listen. 111 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 9: Rainy Street in downtown Austin is one point eight miles 112 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 9: from Ladybird Lake. It's a raucous bar and food truck area, 113 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 9: where many of the victims were seen before their deaths. 114 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 9: It's also an area with a long standing reputation for crime. 115 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 9: One theory is that people are in danger of having 116 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 9: their drink spiked so they can be robbed or worse. 117 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 9: Over the last two years, the Austin Police Department has 118 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 9: been investigating crimes where men are being potentially drugged while 119 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 9: out for the evening. KXAN reports in each case, a 120 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 9: man meets a woman at one of the downtown establishments, 121 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 9: and during the course of the evening, the victim is 122 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 9: drugged and the suspect takes off with their credit cards 123 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 9: and cell phone. Investigators say the cell phones and credit 124 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 9: cards been used to commit more than seventy five thousand 125 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 9: dollars in fraudulent purchases and transactions. The suspect uses the 126 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 9: credit cards for physical purchases at various businesses and the 127 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 9: cell phone for banking apps for fraudulent purchases and other transactions. 128 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: This would not be the first time that late night 129 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: food trucks have been linked to homicide. Brian Coburger specifically 130 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: as to whom I am referring listen. 131 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 9: To a four murdered University of Idaho students caught on 132 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 9: video less than two hours before they were stabbed to death. 133 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 9: Madison Mogan and ki Leakansolves ordered a ten dollars portion 134 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 9: of carbonara from the Grub Truckers, a food truck at 135 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 9: one for three am. During their ten minute wait, they 136 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 9: took photos of each other and chatted with other customers. 137 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 9: They arrived at the truck with an unidentified young man, 138 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 9: but didn't leave with him. The video was filmed by 139 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 9: the food truck operators as part of a livestream. 140 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: Joining me an. 141 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: All star panel to makes sense of what we know 142 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: right now. But I want to go to Frank's former 143 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: FBI Supervisory Special Agent, President of Investigative and Security Global Solutions, Dennis, thank. 144 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: You for being with us, Good morning. 145 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 10: Thank you. 146 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: The food truck and bar and restaurant area along Rainy 147 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 2: Street not far from Ladybird Lake, and I believe in 148 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 2: criminal law there is no coincidence. And I base that 149 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 2: on not only ten years of prosecuting nothing but felonies, 150 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: of course, including homicide, serial murders, spree murders, but in 151 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: all the cases that I've covered, when you keep having 152 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: dead bodies float up in the same lake, you have 153 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: to at least consider a serial killer. 154 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 10: I would agree you count the number of bodies that 155 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 10: have been found in this area over the last several years. 156 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 10: And this is an area where, well don't their motorized 157 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 10: boats are not allowed. You know, there are a few 158 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 10: drownings every year on Lake Austin and Lake Travis, but 159 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 10: these are usually from boating situations and swimming situations. So 160 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 10: this number of bodies in one location, to me, is 161 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 10: not a coincidence either. In there probably I think I've 162 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 10: counted maybe their fifteen bars on Rainey Street and they're 163 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 10: all within distance walking distance of the lake joining me. 164 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: In addition to Brianna Hollis from k x a N 165 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 2: and Dennis Frank's former FBI, another special guest is Reagan Apodicio, 166 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: mother to one of the Ladybird Lake victim's son. I 167 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 2: am referring to John Christopher Hayes Clark. He was found 168 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: dead April fifteen, twenty three. His CEO d cause of 169 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: death even now is un determined. 170 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: Reagan, thank you for being with us, Thank you for 171 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: having me. 172 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: Freagan, what do you make a police insisting that all 173 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: of these deaths are either accident or suicide? 174 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 5: I don't believe anything the Austin Police Department says. I 175 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: haven't since I've known, since I first got the call 176 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 5: about Chris. It's been crazy dealing with them, and I 177 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 5: haven't had too much clarification on anything of his death. 178 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 5: So that makes me not believe them. 179 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: When you say it's been crazy dealing with them, what 180 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: do you mean by that. 181 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 5: Little to no contact with them? I have to keep 182 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 5: basically begging to talk to the detective at the time 183 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 5: when all this happened, I literally only talked to him 184 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 5: two times, met him one time, and the one time 185 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 5: I met him is when they were about to close 186 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 5: the case. 187 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: Is the case actually closed? Yes? And what was their 188 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: decision as to cause of death? 189 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 5: They deemed it as undetermined and they closed the case 190 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 5: because they said they had no information on Chris. 191 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 192 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: Over three dozen bodies have been found in or around 193 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: Lady Bird Lake in just three years, nineteen pulled from 194 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: the water, the rest discovered on land, police shutting down 195 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: suggestions that there is a serial killer name the Rainy 196 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: Street Ripper, while half a dozen causes of death remain unknown. 197 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: So how can they say that if they don't even 198 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: know the cood causes of death on at least six 199 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 2: of the victims. What do we know about the so 200 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: called Rainy Street ripper? And why is law enforcement insisting 201 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 2: there's not a serial killer when we don't even have 202 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: all the CODs. Reagan Apodiicio, mother to one of the 203 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 2: Ladybird late victim's young son, and he wants to know 204 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: what happened to dad? And can I tell you? As 205 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: each year passes is going to nag him and haunt 206 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: him the rest of his life if we don't get answers, 207 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 2: now is the time to get those answers, really get 208 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: hold on just one moment. Also joining us is renowned 209 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: medical examiner chief Medical Examiner in Texas of Terrance County. 210 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth Lecturer. 211 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: University of Texas, Austin and at TCU, Texas Christian University 212 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 2: Medical School, doctor Kendall Crown's Dodtor Crowns, thank you for. 213 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: Being with us. To me, when a case is. 214 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: Labeled undetermined CEOD cause of death and the family has 215 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: no answers, that's not a case that I would consider 216 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: to be closed. 217 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 11: Yeah, you're correct on that, Nancy. Any case that's left 218 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 11: undetermined means that the medical examiner wasn't able to figure 219 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 11: out an exact cause of death, and so because of that, 220 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 11: they've left it undetermined in case any investigative information comes 221 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 11: up on a later date, or anything else may come 222 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 11: arise that may change the outcome. So when you get 223 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 11: an undetermined, especially in a case found in a lake 224 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 11: like that, it means that they didn't find anything specific, 225 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 11: because drowning finding themselves are non specific, and so they 226 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 11: didn't find anything that they felt was valid enough to 227 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 11: cause it to give a good valid cause death. 228 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: Well, they're saying that about so many of the cases. 229 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, I want to circle back to you 230 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: on obtaining cause of death when a body has been 231 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: in the water submerged for a period of time. But 232 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: I want to go back to Reagan Apadicio, mother to 233 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: victim Christopher Clark's son, question to you regarding the death 234 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: of Chris Clark. You guys were together for over ten years. 235 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: I understand you last saw him on Easter Sunday, It's correct, 236 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: and when he walked out after visiting with you and 237 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: your son, you had no idea you would never see 238 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: him again. 239 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: When did you learn that Christopher had been killed. 240 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 5: I learned Sunday after they let his mother know what. 241 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: Were you told? 242 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 5: His best friend called me and he was very distraught 243 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 5: and let me know that they had found. 244 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: Chris in the lake. 245 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 5: And I didn't believe it, and I went to his 246 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 5: mom's house and she told me that the police had 247 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 5: came and let them know that they had identified him 248 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 5: in the lake and that, you know, he was deceased, 249 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 5: and I kind of lost it from there. 250 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:07,119 Speaker 2: Do you know, Reagan, whether he had drugs or alcohol 251 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: in his body? 252 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 7: Yes? 253 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: I do know, Diddy, Yes, you know. That leads me back. 254 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: Brianna joining me, Brianna. 255 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: Hollis k x A N to. 256 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: The scheme that apparently some women have drugging and robbing 257 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: male victims and then they are found in and around 258 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: Ladybird Lake. Are you familiar with that scheme? That investigation 259 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: by Austin p DA. 260 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 7: In my experience, when it has come to cases similar 261 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 7: to what you have brought up in the past two 262 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 7: years that I personally have looked into, they have either 263 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 7: been not reported to police or have been unsubstantiated, or 264 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 7: the police department has suspended the cases on the bonus 265 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 7: of the complaint end. 266 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you 267 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: saying that you know of other cases where it's alleged 268 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: victims were drugged and then robbed but they were never prosecuted. 269 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: Whether it's because it couldn't be substantiated or the victim 270 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: didn't want to testify, is that what you're saying I'm saying. 271 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 7: Or because the alleged victims didn't report it to police 272 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 7: at all and it was just social media. 273 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: Chatter or okay, people reaching out my question? Do you 274 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: know of cases, whether they've been prosecuted or not, where 275 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: victims claimed they were drugged and robbed in the area? Yeah, okay, 276 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's again, chief medical 277 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: examiner there in Fort Worth. Doctor Crowns, I find this 278 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 2: baffling and confusing that so many bodies have been pulled 279 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 2: out of Ladybird Lake, but police are continuing to say 280 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: it's all just coincidence. Could you explain to me whether 281 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: in life of psychology reports that it could be determined 282 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 2: if these victims had been drugged anyway. 283 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 11: So the toxicology of reports will tell you what drugs 284 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 11: are in the system, and there are certain drugs that 285 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 11: are used to try and. 286 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 12: Coerce or to. 287 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 11: Drug an individual like ro Himbi and I think is 288 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 11: one of the daybreak drugs. But if you're seeing other 289 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 11: types of drugs, it may or may not have been 290 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 11: used coercely. So it's difficult to say this on toxicology. 291 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 11: The problem is, as you pointed out, you have many 292 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 11: bodies coming from the same area in a short period 293 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 11: of time, so you have to kind of wonder if 294 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 11: they're clustering like that, what's going on and what's causing it. 295 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 11: It's more than just as simple, oh, they all happen 296 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 11: to go to the same area and die. I do 297 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 11: feel that that's something the Medical Examiner's office in Travis 298 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 11: and the police in Austin should be really looking at. 299 00:18:59,200 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 10: Why are all. 300 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 11: These same people ending up and dead in the same area. 301 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 11: There's got to be a connection. 302 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, can I say something sure, Chapin. 303 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 7: There's a lot of talk that all of these bodies 304 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 7: have been found near Rainy Street, and that isn't true. 305 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 7: There have only been I'm looking at our map right now, 306 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 7: there have only been two found near Rainy Street, where 307 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 7: the victim was reported last seen on Rainy Street since 308 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 7: twenty twenty two. The rest of it in all different 309 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 7: parts of Ladybird Lake, which again, if you're looking at 310 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 7: it on a map, that looks more like a river. 311 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 7: So I think it's really important to note that all 312 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 7: of these bodies aren't showing up near Rainey Street. 313 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 11: That's good to know, yeah, but that's not Laborg Lake 314 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 11: have a current associated with it, so those bodies can 315 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 11: be being dropped at the centralized location and then washing 316 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 11: down the rivers, so they don't look at there. 317 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 7: That has been found upstream from Rainey Street. 318 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: Upstream Ot is that Dodger Kendall crown speaking. Yes, sorry, okay, 319 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns, you took the words straight out of 320 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: my mouth. Because the current leading into and out of 321 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: and in Ladybird Lake is considerable and your analysis is correct. 322 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 11: Well, that's actually one of the reasons why they don't 323 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 11: want people swimming in Ladybird Lake is because the current 324 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 11: is very dangerous and people that aren't very good at 325 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 11: swimming get caught in that. 326 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 12: Current and drown. 327 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: Is a serial killer stalking the Austin area, particularly a 328 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: popular nightlife area called Rainy Street not far from downtown. 329 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: Austin. 330 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 2: It was the death of Clifton Axtell, forty six. He 331 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 2: was found March twenty twenty three. The cause of death 332 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 2: COEOD ruled undetermined. Other bodies, according to police, are not 333 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 2: being investigated as homicides. So I'm supposed to believe that 334 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: these guys, all male, were just drunk and fell in 335 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 2: the water. Police say multiple victims were basically drunk or 336 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: high and fell into the water and just died. That 337 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: includes Ricky Parks, his body was found July twenty twenty two. 338 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: He drowned, Christopher Gutaris, Kyle Thornton, Christopher Hayes Clark. They 339 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: were also deemed not suspicious. Two of the victims, Jason 340 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: John and Jonathan Honey, were deemed to a drowned accidentally. 341 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: Both men last seen on Rainy Street. One man, Hussu Moreno, 342 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: shot while driving his vehicle, plunging into the reservoir. You 343 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: think that's a heart attack too. Local bartenders state they 344 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 2: have a hard time excepting there is not something much 345 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: more sinister going on. I mean, what's the likelihood that 346 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: all that we know of, I've got drunk end quote, 347 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: fell in the water. Let him go to Alan Bennett, 348 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: former felony prosecutor now partner at Gunter Bennett and anthus 349 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: at gbafirm dot com. Alan, I mean, you're a former 350 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: felony prosecutor like myself. If you're prosecuting this case or 351 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 2: investigating it, do you really care if the victim is 352 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: pushed into the water or dumped upstream in the lake 353 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 2: or downstream? 354 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: Do you care? 355 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: It's a series of young men of men dead in 356 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: and around Lady Bird Lake. So I appreciate the distinction, 357 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: and it sounds like a wonderful distinction a veteran defense 358 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: attorney might make at trial. But I have handled serial 359 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: murder cases. I have argued them to the Georgia Supreme Court. 360 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: What are the first ones? 361 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: You'll like? 362 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: This for its analogy to the current case, Alan Bennett, 363 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: was a string of young blackmales were killed in Atlanta, 364 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: Everyone within a certain age range, everyone African American, everyone 365 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 2: killed with I believe it was a thirty six caliber 366 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: in the head in the middle of a sex act, 367 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: or so police thought. 368 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: But yet no one would say serial killer. 369 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: Well, it was a serial killer who would lure these. 370 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: Young guys out of a bar, go out to have 371 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: sex and kill them? Why? I don't know. Did he 372 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: hate himself, did he hate them? I don't know, and 373 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: I don't care why. 374 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: But he was a serial killer ever the longest time, 375 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 2: nobody would say serial killer, and. 376 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: I don't know why. 377 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: But when you have this many bodies, whether they're upstreet, 378 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 2: in the lake or downstream, they all have to be 379 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: examined very closely. 380 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 12: Allan yes, ma'am, I would agree. I think o psychology 381 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 12: reports need to be done on all of those folks. 382 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 12: I can't speak to this investigation directly in I can't 383 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 12: speak for APD, but having worked with APD the last 384 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 12: thirty seven years now, both as a prosecutor, infens learning. 385 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 12: One thing I see across the board, and I'm sure 386 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 12: you've seen us as well, answer across the board. In 387 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:22,479 Speaker 12: law enforcement, any detective, investigator, a forensic analyst, officer, everyone 388 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 12: across the board. Good detective work dictates that you work 389 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 12: the facts, not the theory, and I've heard that countless times. 390 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 12: I suspect APD may take the position that this isn't 391 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 12: necessarily a coincidence. There is a common thread to all these. 392 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 12: We have a bunch of young people in a very 393 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 12: very well working entertainment district, here in Austin a bunch 394 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 12: of bunch of alcohol. They're very close to a very 395 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 12: dangerous body of water with a strong current. They would 396 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 12: say that it's Oncidentally, there are a number in such 397 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 12: a short period of time. And I'll be the first 398 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 12: to admit the number of bodies found in such a 399 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 12: short period of time the old adage where there is smoke, 400 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 12: there is fire. That's a lot a lot of smoke. 401 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 12: But I think former speciality of friends will hopefully agree 402 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 12: with me. You have to work the facts and not 403 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 12: the theory. The facts and the clues will help you 404 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 12: develop the theory. The theory doesn't help you develop facts, 405 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 12: and it may very well be as Miss Hollismans the 406 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 12: long ago APD, they close cases, but they will also 407 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 12: administratively close the case, which basically means we're just not 408 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 12: doing anything right now. We don't have any lease to follow, 409 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 12: we don't have any anywhere this is taking us. 410 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: They're not going to go more. 411 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 12: If additional evidence comes up, as doctor Brown to mention, absolutely, 412 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 12: they'll reopen that case if they can find that common thread, 413 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 12: and it may as well be the currently APD is 414 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 12: not finding the common thread that our intuition tells us 415 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 12: must be there, should be there, and it must be 416 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 12: something more than simply young folks bunch of alcohol close to. 417 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: A bottley of water. 418 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: Now, I know why you want so many cases minute. 419 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 2: I agree with everything that you just said. But for 420 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 2: Austin Police to just come out and announce there isn't 421 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: a serial killer at this juncture, I think is highly, 422 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 2: highly premature and a risk to the public because we 423 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: really don't know. And you're right, you've got to follow 424 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: the facts before you develop a theory. Another thing you 425 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 2: said that I think should be very comforting to Miss 426 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: Reagan Apodicio, the mother to victim Christopher Clark's twelve year 427 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 2: old son, is that the cases are not closed in 428 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: the TV sense, in the street and vernacular sense of 429 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 2: the word. They are closed, as in, we've got a 430 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: dead end, we're not giving up. Well, you don't have 431 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: anywhere to go right now. And I got to tell 432 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: you something, Reagan. When I became a felony prosecutor, I 433 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: inherited a courtroom, a very very busy felony courtroom in 434 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: inter city Atlanta, and I inherited about one hundred and 435 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 2: fifty pending cases. While getting about one hundred new cases 436 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: every week or so. So the case isn't gone, it's 437 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: not done. It's closed for now until new evidence emerges. 438 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: And that's why we are talking about this case today. 439 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: I want to go to doctor Dana Anderson, forensics psychologist, 440 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: host of Killer Psychologist podcast, and you can find doctor 441 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: Dana at Killer Psychologist. Doctor Dana, thank you for being 442 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: with us. Why do you believe police don't want to 443 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 2: even entertain discussion of a serial killer in Austin. 444 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 4: Well, one reason is you don't want to brighten the public. 445 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 4: You want to create that sense of safety. And maybe 446 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 4: they do have more information and they don't want the 447 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 4: public to know about it. They don't want to create 448 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 4: that panic and fear. Although too late, that's actually already happening. 449 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 4: If you scour the internet, and even this morning, I 450 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 4: went online and looked at the bars on Rainy Street, 451 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 4: the Sidebar, and there's hundreds of reviews saying don't go 452 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 4: out to these places, you're going to get drugged. And 453 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 4: there's lots of information on the internet about these individuals 454 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 4: that have gone missing, and a lot of speculation and theories. 455 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 4: So there is panic and people want answers and it 456 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 4: is concerning to hear that cases are being closed to 457 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 4: prematurely agree. 458 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: Agree and again based on what Alan Bennett was just explaining, 459 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: the cases may not be closed in the layperson understanding, 460 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: they're closed, as in, we don't have any updates right now, 461 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: we're waiting for more evidence to be uncovered. 462 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: It would not be the first. 463 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: Time, by any stretch that a serial killer stopped an area, 464 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 2: while police steadfastly deny any such apparition as a serial killer. 465 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixteen A. 466 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 2: This is Dave Mack from Crime Online discussing a recent 467 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: spate of murders. For the longest time, police refused to 468 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: acknowledge a serial killer. 469 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: Alert to the area. 470 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 8: Listen with Eric Opania's description of the man, the make 471 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 8: and model of the truck. Authorities were able to identify 472 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 8: Border Patrol Agent one David Ortiz as their suspect. As 473 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 8: authorities mobilized to look for One David Ortiz, they couldn't 474 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 8: find him. After Painia's escape from Martes, officers only knew 475 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 8: of victims Melissa Ramirez and Claudine Duerra, but while they 476 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 8: were chasing after him, they heard about a third body 477 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 8: that had been found, later identified as thirty five year 478 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 8: old Gizelda Alisa Hernetez kno. Believing Ortiz will return to 479 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 8: the home he shares with his wife and children, authorities 480 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 8: head to his home, hoping to avoid an armed confrontation. 481 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: That's right, a Border Patrol agent was in fact a 482 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: serial killer, and if police had acknowledged that these women 483 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: were dropping like fly at the hands of serial killer, 484 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: that last victim may very well have been saved. And 485 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 2: that's certainly not the only one. The same thing happened 486 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 2: in Oregon. Listen weeks after saying the deaths of several 487 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: women were not linked to one murderer, Investigators and prosecutors 488 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: say they're working together on the evidence that now links 489 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: one person, jesse Lee Calhoun, to at least four of 490 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: the murdered women. Kristin Smith reported missing December twenty second, 491 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, found dead eight weeks later in Portland. 492 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: Twenty two year old Ashley Real reported missing in Portland 493 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: April second, twenty twenty three, found dead five weeks later 494 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 2: in Clackhamus County. Charity Perry twenty four, found dead in 495 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: Eastmolnomah County. Bridget Leanne Ramsey Webster thirty one found dead 496 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: in Paul County April thirtieth, twenty twenty three. 497 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 498 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: Many of the victims who end up in Ladybird Lake 499 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: had been partying on Rainy Street. It's a really popular 500 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: bar scene and it's just feet away from the river. 501 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: Now many believe the party scene in downtown Austin, it's 502 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: a beloved destination for bachelorette and bachelor parties, has only 503 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: exacerbated the problems. Witnesses are drunk or high, they don't 504 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: remember when the victims go missing, or the last time 505 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: they saw them, or what time they saw them, and 506 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: then the victim ends up dead in or around the water. 507 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: How can thirty eight bodies not be connected. Let me 508 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: go back to you, doctor Kendall, Crown's Chief medical Examiner, 509 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: Terrence County. Let's talk about potential drugging of the victims. 510 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on any way to link some 511 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 2: of these victims together. 512 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: For instance, a date rape drug. 513 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 2: Could be used like I believe it was used in 514 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: the Natalie Holloway case. Or victims could be watched, or 515 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: they could be partying with the victim and when they 516 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 2: pull out their own drugs. That's a perfect chance to 517 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: rob them or kill them. So I'm trying to figure 518 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 2: out all the various ms most operati method of operation 519 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: a killer could utilize in this scenario. So where would 520 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 2: a medical examiner sit into this puzzle to help link 521 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: victims potentially. 522 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 11: So what you can do is when you have a 523 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 11: string of victims all from the same area, or you 524 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 11: start looking for similarities, you know, as they have a 525 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 11: similar pattern of bruising where they similarly tied up, things 526 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 11: of that nature. 527 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 10: If you're worried about a. 528 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 11: Drug someone drugging them and then you know, jumping them, 529 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 11: you look for similar if they have similar toxlogic findings. 530 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 11: Because the serial killer, if you will, isn't going to 531 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 11: be switching up drugs between victims. They're going to go 532 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 11: with what works and then continue to use it. So 533 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 11: if the medical examiner has noticed you have a cluster 534 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 11: of bodies from the area and they all have the 535 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 11: same drugs on board, then you have a very obvious issue. 536 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: Now I've been looking at a lot of the victims 537 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: and Brianna Hollis may be able to help me out here. 538 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 2: KXA in News again, thank you for being with us. 539 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: So many of the victims, and of course to my knowledge, 540 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 2: they're dating back to two thousand and eight, but some 541 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: of them had facial bruising, some of them had broken bones. 542 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: I don't really understand how that can fit into an 543 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: accidental death scenario. But what can you tell me about 544 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: the most recent victims, Rihanna. 545 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 7: So obviously we had a case where a body was 546 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 7: pulled from Ladybird Lake. This was near City Hall, which 547 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 7: is northwest of Rainey Street. 548 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: Upstream how far from Rainey Street. 549 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 7: Probably about a mile and a half or so two 550 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 7: miles and this was identified as a few That's all 551 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 7: the information we have, but that is what we know 552 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 7: at the moment of this case. Otherwise, like I said, 553 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 7: most of my reporting has been on the cases dating 554 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 7: back to July of twenty twenty two. I'm looking at 555 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 7: our map and our chart here right now, all kind 556 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 7: of what you guys have been talking about. Accidental drowning, 557 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 7: cause of death undetermined. There's two cases I do want 558 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 7: to bring up the and before I get into that, 559 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 7: I do want to mention that, of course, every death 560 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 7: is a tragedy, no matter how it happened. 561 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 5: So I go into these details with you. 562 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 7: Know, the utmost level of respect and sensitivity for the 563 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 7: family members of these victims. Just wanted to put that 564 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 7: out there. But two of the cases that sparked a 565 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 7: lot of alarm were the Jason John case and the 566 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 7: Jonathan Honey case. These were two instances, the only two 567 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 7: incidents in my reporting since I've gotten here, where the 568 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 7: victim was actually last seen on Rainy Street. And in 569 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 7: the two cases of toxicology reports found no drugs but 570 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 7: found alcohol. And then in the Jonathan Honey case, they 571 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 7: found drugs consistent with over the counter I believe allergy medicine. 572 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: Okay, so those two victims on Rainey Street did not 573 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: have anything such as GHB, gamma hydroxyvity rate or another 574 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 2: potential sedative. But to you, doctor Kendall Crowns, in this scenario, 575 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 2: if people are getting guys or women to party, getting 576 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: them drunk, getting them to use drugs, and killing them, 577 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 2: I don't know that drugs would be in their system. 578 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 11: Well, I they're getting them drunk or any If they 579 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 11: aren't getting them drunk, then yes, or giving them drugs, 580 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 11: of course there wouldn't be drugs in their system. But 581 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 11: if they're giving them anything, it should show up on 582 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 11: the toxicology. But of course you could lure them away 583 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 11: into those areas and then strangle them and push them 584 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 11: into the river or whatever you're doing to them. 585 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 12: Who knows at this form? 586 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 2: You know? Another issue, and let me go to Dennis 587 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 2: Franks on this former FBI special agent now with Investigative 588 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: Security Global Solutions. Dennis, so many people assume that theft 589 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: would be the motive with a serial killer. That's not 590 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: necessarily the motive. The joy of killing is very often 591 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 2: the motive. 592 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 10: I agree, and you know, I'm not a behavioral science expert, 593 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 10: but yet you know these I do not see theft 594 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 10: as being a situation where somebody gets robbed and then 595 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 10: they kill them and toward them in the lake. I 596 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 10: would go on to say that that the oft the 597 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 10: police department has a behavioral science unit or experts trained 598 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 10: in that they should be looking at this, looking at 599 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 10: any patterns anything at all, coordinating with the FBI's and 600 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 10: behavioral science unit, looking at statistics nationwide, and looking for 601 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 10: any clues at all that might whether or not they're 602 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 10: going to admit that this might be a serial killer. 603 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 10: They should be doing this, and I would hope they are. 604 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 2: All I've been in joining us former felony prosecutor, joining 605 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 2: us out of Austin. You've handled so many homicide cases, 606 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: but in serial killer cases, I mean John Wayne Gacy. 607 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: He didn't steal from his victims. He molested them, then 608 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 2: he killed them and buried him in his crawls base 609 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 2: off his basement. Ted Bundy, he didn't rob. While many 610 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: serial killers do take a mento like jewelry, or they 611 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 2: might take a driver's license or a hair rib and 612 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 2: or underwear, theft is not the motivator for for instance, 613 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 2: Ted Bundy. 614 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 1: I could go on and on and on like. 615 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: Ortiz the Border patrol, I said he hated prostitutes, so 616 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: we kill them, the boss and strangler for Pete's sake. 617 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 2: He didn't rob the victims. He hated them because they 618 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: were prostitutes. So motivation for serial killers is not by 619 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 2: far always theft. 620 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 12: I agree n answer. In fact, I'm not sure that 621 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 12: I'm aware of any serial killer in history who was 622 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 12: in fact motig Boat up and again, how they special 623 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 12: agent crimes could give us a better participate. My understanding 624 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 12: is that at any given time, the FBI believes there 625 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 12: are only about fifty serial killers operating within the United States. 626 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 12: Mm hmmm, because our lady mentioned a moment ago. If 627 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 12: that is the most is most prevalent crime, that's the 628 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 12: most important crime. Serial killers are not I think. I 629 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 12: think you're right all the serial killers you mentioned, they 630 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 12: are a special breed of people, and they may collect souvenirs, 631 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 12: they may take momentos from the victims, but they're not 632 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,439 Speaker 12: they're not robbing their victims. In fact, I'm not even 633 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 12: sure if there's any evidence that any of the bodies 634 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 12: that have been pulled from the late or impact victims 635 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 12: of robbery orth. I'm not sure if any of those 636 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 12: bodies were pulled that had their wallet impacted, their money 637 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,879 Speaker 12: still in their wallet. I'm not sure if there's any 638 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 12: association or any connection of that. 639 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: Brianna Hollis, what about it, k X A N. Have 640 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: any of these victims been robbed? 641 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge the ones I've covered. 642 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 12: There. 643 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 2: You go, Alan Bennett, what you're saying is really interesting 644 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: to me because I disagree with the FBI, and I 645 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 2: certainly don't want to poke the bear. It's like having 646 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 2: a tiger by the tail. You can't hold on and 647 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 2: you can't let go, but it'll be a cold day 648 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 2: in HG double L. There's only fifty serial killers in 649 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 2: America right now. 650 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: No, they may only know. 651 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: Of fifty serial killers in America, but I guarantee you 652 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 2: that is woefully, woefully under reported to you joining us. 653 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 2: Brianna Hollis KXA N. I'm curious as to the physical 654 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 2: appearance of the victims. What can you tell me about that? 655 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 2: Are they similar in appearance? 656 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 7: That's something I don't know directly. The only information that 657 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 7: we've gotten from police regarding this was just difficulties when 658 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 7: it comes to the autopsy and the investigations because of 659 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 7: you know, bodies being in the water with you know, 660 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 7: bloating and decomposition and whatnot. 661 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: Many of them are light complected with dark hair. That's 662 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 2: my observation so far. And as you know to Dennis 663 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 2: Frank's former FBI now in security, serial killers typically kill 664 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 2: within their own race. Also, they have a type a 665 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 2: type of victim to which they gravitate. I mean, if 666 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 2: you look at Ted Bundy's victims, they all look like 667 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: then will white females with dark hair, part of down 668 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: the middle. There are a few variations, but that's what 669 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 2: you find very very often What do you make of that, 670 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 2: Dennis Franks, Yeah. 671 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 10: I think that's true. I think that they're usually a 672 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 10: pattern of the victims with serial killers, and I've been 673 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 10: looking at that in these uh you unfortunate does and 674 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 10: it does seem that there the victims do have that 675 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 10: picture of look. It doesn't seem for sure, you know, 676 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 10: certainly there's not random you know, victims or people who 677 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 10: have found that of different uh you know, different looks. 678 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 10: And so that's a factor that I think is important 679 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 10: in this because you're going to look at any pattern 680 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 10: you can, and that's an important pattern, and then you're 681 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 10: going to look for other commonalities. And you know, it's 682 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 10: it's a mystery that they may not say that it's, 683 00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 10: you know, a serial killer, but they have to be 684 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 10: looking at it. I just can't see why they wouldn't. 685 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 2: The city of Austin has announced that more safety measures 686 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 2: like lighting and fencing around the lake are going to happen. 687 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 2: They're also quote considering part rangers around the water and 688 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 2: more surveillance cameras. Okay, wait a minute, why are you 689 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: still quote considering it. I considered it for about five seconds, 690 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 2: and I think you should do it immediately. How many 691 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 2: more bodies have to be pulled fished out of Ladybird 692 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 2: Lake before safety measures are taken. I look for patterns. 693 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,720 Speaker 2: There is a pattern. Males within a certain age bracket 694 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,959 Speaker 2: from a certain location, on certain times of the night 695 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 2: are going missing and ending up dead in Ladybird Lake. 696 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 2: The lattice remains in Ladybird Lake we believe belonged to 697 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 2: a teen boy. The seventeen year old African American male 698 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: was with his family when he goes missing around seven pm. 699 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 2: Now why do we think it's him Because there's an 700 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 2: initial identification of the victim's clothes that matched the description 701 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 2: of the teen boy pulled from the water. Whether the 702 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 2: teen boy's death is foul play or not, it brings 703 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 2: to light the other thirty seven bodies and the possibility 704 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 2: that a serial killer is stalking the city of Austin. 705 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,959 Speaker 2: I don't understand how that possibility can be ruled out. 706 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 2: We wait as justice on false goodbye for