WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Tina Watson 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:17.239 Thinking Sideways. I'll I don't know stories of things. We 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:22.080 simply don't know the answa to Hi there, Welcome to 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:27.240 another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.200 by and Steve, and we're going to talk about another 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.600 fascinating mystery this week. Sweet Yeah, I know, this is 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:36.599 a fun one here. This is a this this one 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.000 has been called dubbed by some people the Honeymoon Killer, 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.920 a k a. Why Devon should never go to Australia. Yeah, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.360 I wouldn't. Well, don't go to Australia in general. Everything 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.600 there is trying to kill you. But hey, that's besides 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.240 the point. Yeah, it's a deadly place. Yeah, I watch 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.600 Mad Max. You don't believe me. Uh yeah, So this 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.520 is actually about the death of Tina Watson that there 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:01.040 there's some who, by the way, I feel that the 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.800 name of Honeymoon Killer is not exactly appropriate, but we'll 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.959 talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, But Tina had drowned accidentally 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.240 while scuba diving in Australia in two thousand three four. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.320 Did she I know? Because there are people, including Tina's 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.880 family and the Australian police, who thinks she was murdered. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.560 So we got a mystery here, you think, I think 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.600 that's usually why we sit down. Yeah, the other reason heresies. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.520 Yeah yeah, yeah. Alright, so let's talk about the death 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.240 of Tina Watson. But first off, I want to give 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.200 a shout out to Maggie who suggested this episode, so 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.320 thank you. Yeah, it's a fun little mystery. And also 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.240 I forgot my last episode I talked about murder on 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.600 the Herbert Fuller fun little story and uh, I forgot 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:50.040 to mention Rachel, our listener who suggested that one sold. Yes, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:52.800 a belated shout out to you, Rachel High and hope 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:57.000 you're not mad about me forgetting previously. It happened sometimes. Anyway, 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.080 back to our story. Also a warning this episode it 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.240 involves water, which may frighten some people, so you've been warned. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.200 My mom is actually scared of oceans. She's very uncomfortable 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.480 about the ocean. That is actually a thing. Does that 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.120 include like walking on the beach or just being out 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.600 on boats in the ocean when it's so deep and 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:23.200 you don't know what's below you. Yeah, anyway, that's a 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.080 thing I could. I can sort of get that. Yeah. Anyway, 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.000 back to our story of Tina and her husband, Gabe. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.280 That's his name was David Gabriel Watson. I shouldn't say 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.160 it was. As far as I always still alive. David 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.919 Gabriel Watson went by the name Gabe, and Christina May Thomas. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.639 She went by the name Tina. They were both twenty 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.320 six and there from Helena, Alabama. If you're from Helena, 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.160 if that's pronounced Helena, well I'm sorry, I apologize, but 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.760 I'll go by Helena. The Tina and Gabe men in 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.720 college and they've been together about two years before they 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.640 got married. That was in October two, ius and three, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.440 and then they went off of their honeymoon in Australia, 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.560 didn't they. Then they have kind of an on again, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.520 off again relationship during that time. I have heard that, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.600 but I'm not sure. Okay, That's why I asked, because 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.000 I had seen it somewhere. It's like, I don't I 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.880 don't know who's the source of that. Well, with these two, uh, 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.320 you see a lot of stuff about their relationship out there, 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.440 a lot, and I'm not sure what to believe, to 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.320 be honest with you, Yeah, I think that's one of 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.480 the hardest things about reading this is there's a lot 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.080 of conjecture about the couple and the relationship and in 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.800 their trip and everything. Like, there's just so much weird coverage. Yeah. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.040 Some people say they were a happy couple. Other people 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.720 say they were totally dysfunctional, And I feel people tend 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.280 to do that. We've definitely covered a lot of cases 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.920 like this where people really read into the relationship and 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.920 kind of put their own spin on it, and realistically, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.960 nobody can never know what that relationship was like except 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.800 for the two people who were in it. Ye. Yeah, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.600 it's very true. Yeah, and I'll talk I was going 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.320 to talk a little bit about that. Well, Tina into 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.640 is what you you hear from some people, including your 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.080 family and friends. At the age of twenty six, all 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.320 of her friends have gotten married, and she was apparently 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.240 worried that she was gonna wind up being an old maid. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.200 Cats with cats, We don't know anybody like that. No, 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.760 I don't know, but I don't think it's weird to 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.920 have cats at all, but some people apparently do. But 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.040 it looks like from what people have been saying, it 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.559 looks like Gabe was not exactly Mr Wright for Tina, 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.960 but at least maybe good enough. I guess so Tina 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.919 was desperate. This is, you know, not necessarily true. This 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.440 is just what some people have been saying. Yeah, that's 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.279 right up there with they got married to fix a relationship. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.279 Sometimes we see in stories they had children to save 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.120 the relationship. That's what you see that out there. Yeah. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.080 But and then on the other side, Gabe was supposed 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.120 to be a very controlling, Dominetian kind of person. He 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.920 reportedly said to Tina that, well, if you want to 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.320 be with me, you're going to have to learn to 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.200 do the things I like to do, which is fishing 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.880 and scuba diving. Of course, we've all seen how well 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.159 the scuba diving turned out for Tea. Yeah. And of 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.520 course there was a famous engagement ring episode, which I'm 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.200 sure you guys have heard about, right, I mean probably 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.320 our listeners haven't. They probably haven't, let me tell them 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.280 about that. And again this is um from I think 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.800 Tina's sister mostly. So can can I give a little 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:22.320 caveat here? Which is his family? Gabe family apparently liked Tina. Yeah, 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:28.520 Tina's family despised Gabe prior to everything going down. That 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.159 very least, yeah, at the very at least they had 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.839 they didn't they didn't like it. They weren't sure by 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.039 this point in time they actually do this question because 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.400 they spent some bad water under the bridge or something. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.880 But but the the engagement ring episode was supposedly after 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.120 they've been together, like maybe six months or god don't 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.960 I can't remember, he bought an engagement ring for her 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.240 and and brings it home in a little bag, a 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.799 little from the from the jewelers that's got the jeweler's 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.120 name of the side of it, sets it on top 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.640 of his big screen TV at home, and then she 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.960 see sit sitting in the seats of access what's in 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.560 the bag? And he says, oh, it's an engagement ring, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.599 but you can't look at it. And she's like what 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.240 And he says, no, you can't look at it. If 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.239 you look at it, I'm gonna return the ring. And 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.520 so she didn't look at it. And supposedly this is 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.080 like tormenting her for months according to some people. And 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.600 this is sort of a telling story of it's a 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.200 game to him about Gabe, you know, you know, being 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.720 this sort of manipulative, domineering person. I okay, I mean 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.159 I don't want to again. Sometimes we put ourselves in 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.880 the position where we find ourselves defending people who are 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.719 kind of jerks. But to me, you know, either that 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.560 is like super domineering or it's his idea of romance, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.159 like he you know, he's trying to like build suspense 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.800 and drawing it out. Yeah, he's like, well, okay, I'm 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.360 gonna gage and we're gonna get Yeah. I mean, I 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.040 think of situations where guys are like, oh, yeah, I 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.279 bought the ring six months in because I knew, and 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.120 then three years later I finally proposed, And I don't know, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.320 maybe in his head it was super romantic to be like, 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.599 here's the thing that we're going to do, but also 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.680 it is super jerk move. I'd be mad, well, yeah, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.839 did that to me? Yeah, But again, you don't know 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.000 exactly how he said it. He might have just said 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.240 it kiddingly and all that stuff. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.280 that's the other thing too. He could have totally been 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.840 like joking like ha ha, don't open that, expecting her 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.440 to open it, and she was like, oh my god, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.560 I better not open it. So she interpreted it one way, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.600 and he was hoping she would open it because then 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.520 he'd be like so very be I don't know. I 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.280 think this is this this case is much like uh, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:35.320 I think it was actually your last one, Joe the 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.800 Herbert Fuller, where the context and the way that the 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:45.320 statements were made ken dramatically changed what their meaning is. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:46.720 And that's I think we're gonna we're gonna have to 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.760 talk about that several times from this. And there's there's 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.600 been a lot said about this one too. Like one 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.640 of the things that's been said about about Gabe is 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.440 that he changed his story like sixteen times. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.040 not necessarily so, but but anyway, his the picture that's 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.240 been painted of Gabe and the press, frankly, it's not 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.920 been good, not at all. And I had no idea 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.280 how much, if any of that stuff is really true. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.160 Probably a lot of his bs, I know, a lot 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.720 of it came from Tina's families. He said things were 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.160 never great between Gabe and Tina's family, and then of course, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.680 after Tina died, while things really went south in a 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.920 big way, as you would expect. Yeah, yeah, it's understandable. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.480 Of course, you know, Gabe did sort of get her killed, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.880 but encouraged her to get her to get into scuba 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.760 at the very least. Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, and 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.559 and of course they think it went beyond that. I 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.880 think think he murdered her. But we'll talk about that 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.160 in a few minutes. Yeah, uh yeah. And so they've 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.960 kind of put everything, every aspect of Gabe and his 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.720 relationship with Tina in the worst possible And I think 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.120 back to our honeymoon that we've been We've taken a 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.440 little detour there. But no, they got married, they went 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.360 out for their honeymoon in Australia, and of course somebody 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.520 didn't make it back and the other one became known 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.120 in the press as the honeymoon killer. Uh yeah, so 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.200 that's our mystery. This week. They had about two weeks 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.319 in Australia and the plan was is that the first 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.120 week would be Tina's week and they would just do 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:16.280 stuff that Tina wanted to do. Uh you know, I'm sorry, Yeah, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.080 I'm I'm going to be super judge and say, like, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.840 if you can't compromise with a couple on things you 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.240 might want to do together. Well, I don't think that 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.040 it was all this, you know, screw you were doing this, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.040 it's my week. I don't think it was quite like 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.320 that necessarily. It's more like just what do you her 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.320 turn to plan? Yeah, what do you really want to 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.320 do in Australia. But that's stuck to me is very 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.800 weird because I know what I went on mine. It 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.600 was we have we have these things in this area 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.840 while we're there, Which ones do we want to do? Yes, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.120 I mean I know what happened on yours, if not 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.520 in yours. The first week was your wife's week, and 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.079 then the second week was your wife's week. I was 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.360 going to say the first week was alcohol and the 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:05.720 second week would be more alcohol. Totally true too, Yeah 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.439 she didn't say that. Yeah, no, okay, but they had 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.640 so they had a week the during Tina this week, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.360 and I see, Tina wanted to experience Australian culture, which 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.640 you know what Australians do. They drink fosters and they 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.760 also put on leather outfits, put stuff out on the bobby. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:23.720 Yeah they do that. But they also you know, they 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.000 wear leather and they and they drive muscle cars at 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.400 high speeds in the outback. Yeah, and these are all 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.240 very true statements. And they change people on guitars to 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.920 the front of cars exactly. And then they had these 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.520 high speed chases and shooted each other and stuff. Yeah, 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.480 you know, Australia actually sounds like a pretty pretty place. 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.520 That's why I want to go to all our Australian 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.800 listeners before you shut this off and unsubscribe. Sorry, we're 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.960 having fun. Yeah, we totally are. Uh. Well, then we 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.240 number two came around. It was Gave's turn, and Gave 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.200 it booked a trip with Mike Ball's Diet Expeditions. And 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.160 of course this was a bad idea. Uh nobody knew 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.360 that at the time yet, but it turned out to 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.119 be a bad idea because based on my anecdotal analysis, 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.800 statistical probability of somebody dying on your scuba honeymoon in Australia, 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:14.280 it's about that. Actually, that's not right. That's not right. No, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.880 because I have friends who did it, and they're both 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.520 still they both came back. Did anybody on your expedition 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.959 not come back? Okay, well everybody made it. That that 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.120 is the exception. Actually, all all I know is I 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.960 remember reading the paper. This is years ago though, this 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.040 couple was honeymooning off the Great Barrier Reef and they 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.840 were scuba diving, and then how you got eaten by 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.760 a great white shark which I'm sure it cast to 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.640 Paul over things just and then of course there's this 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.720 one where Tina died, So there you go. That's pretty high. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.680 Yeah yeah, And of course there's there might be other 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.599 stuff going on out there where people scuba div and 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.600 nothing happens. But I don't know about this, so I 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.960 don't care. That's not included in your data now exactly 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.360 used incidents where people were killed in made that I 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.439 have heard of. So yeah, my data set asist of 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.520 two U. But our story is, yeah, they're they're on 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.640 a dive trip with Mike Ball Dive Expeditions and it's 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.160 going to be a dive on the SS Young Gala, 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.040 which was a ship that was a shipwreck. Yeah, it's 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.760 sat in the cyclone in nineteen eleven. There's two got it. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.679 I wasn't sailing on I know, I was like, wait, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.480 I thought this was a scuba diving thing, not a 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:27.079 shipwreck thing. But you can in the ship. Yeah, you 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.240 can dive on the records, but yeah, yeah, the record 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.079 is not sailing anymore though, it's sort of sitting in 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.360 one spot. Yeah. Yeah. The Young Gala was rediscovered in 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.360 night and it's considered today to be one of the 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.560 world's best wreck dives. And I guess you know. Wreck 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.439 dives are a big thing with scuba divers. Yeah, very popular. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.839 Oh yeah, totally because normally you go down there, what's 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.440 there to look at? A bunch of fish? So it's 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:51.760 kind of cool and drom act to be able to 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.120 look at the wreck ship of swim through it. Yeah, 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.880 I don't think they encourage people to swim through this one. Well, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.880 I mean swim through like the top deck in the 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.200 you go around the cabins, That's what I mean by that. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.680 Oh yeah, and you're not really supposed to go inside 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.400 when you're not a good idea, No, not really, unless 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.000 you're very highly rated, which these people aren't. Yeah, there's 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.000 things to cut yourself on, and god knows what's living inside. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.800 There's exactly something to be thinking about too. I saw 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.920 finding Nemo, I know those things. Oh yeah, there's all 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.160 kinds of scary stuff hiding in there. But from the 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.120 outside of least, it looks pretty cool. Let me give 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.280 you a quick rundown of how the wreck looks. It's 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.160 about fifty miles off the east coast of Australia and 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.559 it's southeast of a town called Townsville. And how far 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:39.960 is that in? Okay? Yeah, and it's about twenty eight 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.920 ms down or about a hundred feet so the sea 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.360 flowers now it's laying on at starboards side, so it's 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.120 not super deep. But no, not not really no, And 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.200 especially you don't have to go all the way down. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.360 You can cruise like fifty ft down and see the 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.560 wreck nice and and just look at it from up. 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.680 My point was, it's not like you requires some crazy 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.960 dive set up like Whember we talking about Ben mcdanie 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.280 the gas mixes that he needs. It's nothing like that. No, no, no, 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.200 not at all. And uh it is considered a sort 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.560 of difficult dive because of currents and such things. But 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.320 the wreck is oriented north to south of the bows, 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.920 pointing north, maybe a little bit off north, but more 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.120 or less north south. And they've set it up for 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.800 what essentially with permanent access points or permanent permanent anchor points. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.200 Because so many boats are coming and going bringing dive 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.240 groups there, you can't have people setting anchors all the time. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.880 So if they oh yeah, so they they've dropped these 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.160 massive concrete blocks with chains or ropes attached to them 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.560 that go up to booties. So your cruise up in 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.640 your boat full of divers and you just grab one 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.440 of those booies and tie your anchor line of that 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.080 instead of dropping an anchor. And there's two two special 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.360 blocks that are called diver access points or d ap s, 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.040 and those are there's one of the bow, one with 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.440 the stern. Also a chain or rope. I've heard it said, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.640 I'm not sure which it is. I've seen a picture 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.160 of it looks like a rope, but other people have 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.120 said it's a change. It doesn't matter. It's a line 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.840 that goes down to about ten ms in front of 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.880 the ship from a boolly a top and then so 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.360 that's what you get in, and then you cruise down 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.720 that the current is flowing from north to south along 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.320 the wreck, and so what happened. What most divers do 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.920 is they get in at what's called DAP too diver 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.080 access point to at the at the bow, go down 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.280 as deep as they feel like going, and then just 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.040 let go and let the current take them across just 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.720 down the length of the wreck, so you can just 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.000 basically drift over the top of it and check it 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.720 out and get to the exit. And get to the 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.400 exit line down one and just climb back out again. Uh. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:39.960 And of course you can do whatever you want. You 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.680 can stop off and explore and you know, prowl around 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:43.960 on the on the side of the wreck or just 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:45.720 or you can just like I say, drift right over 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.640 the top of it, just like a lazy river. Yeah, 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.440 pretty much like a little river. Cruis gonna yeah, and 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.360 so it looks like water, yeah, yeah, you know what 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.920 I'm talking about. Yeah. And so on the morning I 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.360 believe it was October two, the second, two thousand three, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.400 they had gotten on their their boat, which was called 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.000 the spoils board dive boat that they were on. They 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.160 had gotten on that the night before, and then they 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.200 spent the night as they on the boat, and then 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.840 then the next morning I think they actually I think 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.800 that night they cruised out and just sort of spent 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.480 the night cruising out there. And they woke up in 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.200 the morning and they were pretty much there. The spoil 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.240 spoort tied off at what's called accident or point nine 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.720 oh five, which is an anchor point two directly to 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.320 the east of the wreck. And then a little later 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.840 in the morning another boat showed up, the Jazz To, 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.760 which is another dive company, and they tied up at 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.400 point nine oh four, which is a point north of 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.400 where the spoil sport was and kind of northeast of 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.640 the wreck, so the JAZ two was actually pretty close 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.400 to the bow of the ship. And then later on 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.640 yet another boat showed up on the other side at 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.480 point nine oh three and they tied up. That's the 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.280 Adrenaline tied up there. So there were three boats in 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.360 the water there and a lot of divers, and so 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.880 what happened is so they they're making kind of a 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.160 loose triangle on top of the wreck at this point, Yeah, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.240 kind of around the outside of the wreck. Yeah, and 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.320 I had a very popular place, just a teeming with 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.520 divers all the time. Yeah. Well, on that on the 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.240 day of they went to get in the water there. 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.919 So the spoil sport was of course south of the 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.640 access point. So what would happen is that people would 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.119 suit up and they would get into it like a 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.679 rubber rubbering kind of thing, went a little bigger than 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.359 a dinghy, but essentially a boat and uh, and they 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.879 would be ferried up to the to the put in 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.400 point diver excess point too, and and then they would 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.720 all go just go down and do their thing, and 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.520 then they could when they got to the exit point, 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.560 they could either be picked up by a boat or 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.840 I think they had a rope actually when they tied, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.119 they tied a rope across from the spoils board to 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.080 the exit line, and they also put they also put 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.280 a cylinder of air down there too, at five meters 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.480 down for people who are running low on the air 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.600 but wanted had needed to do a little decompressing, so 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.679 they had an extra cylinder bear hanging down there for 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.400 safety sounds. I think that's standard, right, Yeah, I feel 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.280 like I remember from the Ben McDaniel saying it was 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.840 the compression that like you would have extra especially on 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.840 a on a set up organization like this, absolutely, because 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.919 while a hundred feet isn't going to give you the 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:18.119 worst decompressions, the bends, yeah, there is a chance of 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.400 some of it. So it is good you would want 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.720 to have tanks there so that, yeah, just in case, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.560 you know, the guy needs to sit there for five 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.240 minutes and he's only got three minutes of air, you 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.320 want to encourage him to do the right thing by 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.960 having the air available instead of just saying screw it. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.480 I've only got three minutes. I'm just gonna get out 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.440 and then barfing all over your boat. Yeah, sometimes it's 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.560 worse than barfing that the bands are bad my understanding 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.359 of how that works. I'm sure I'll get an email 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.359 about this, but it's just a lot of it has 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.160 to do with depth and also how long you've been down. Yes, 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.080 so it's how long you've been down, and then how 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.119 long you spent taking how long you come up to 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.480 allow the Is it the nitrogen in your blood? Is 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.199 that what it is? I think yeah, I think it is. 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.720 You get little bubbles your blood and stuff, and and 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.000 so there was that there was some controversy about this, 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.400 even in that one. Some people feel like Gabe took 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.440 too long to come up to surface. And but we'll 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.840 talk about that soon though. So they were heading out 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.080 about maybe ten to get into the water, and they 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.080 were they were one of a group of six divers, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.359 and they headed out to the access point. I had 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.880 climbed on in with the other divers and sorry, how 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.280 long had Tina and Gabe been Probably should have mentioned that, yeah, 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.280 they were. What Gabe had been doing its dramatically different 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.760 amounts of touch, but just wondering for Gabe had been 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.560 doing it since I believe nineteen and he had a 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.480 total number He hadn't total number of dives like fifty 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.000 six dives, which is and then Tina had I think 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:46.080 eleven dives under her belt. She was a novice and 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.879 she was not good at it it. Actually Gave was 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.320 a novice too. I mean he had a lot of 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.520 his dives were just like kind of pooled dives. He 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.359 actually took his first classes in in a quarry basically 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.480