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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I'll I don't know stories of things. We

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answa to Hi there, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always

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Speaker 1: by and Steve, and we're going to talk about another

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Speaker 1: fascinating mystery this week. Sweet Yeah, I know, this is

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Speaker 1: a fun one here. This is a this this one

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Speaker 1: has been called dubbed by some people the Honeymoon Killer,

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Speaker 1: a k a. Why Devon should never go to Australia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Well, don't go to Australia in general. Everything

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Speaker 1: there is trying to kill you. But hey, that's besides

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Speaker 1: the point. Yeah, it's a deadly place. Yeah, I watch

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Speaker 1: Mad Max. You don't believe me. Uh yeah, So this

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Speaker 1: is actually about the death of Tina Watson that there

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Speaker 1: there's some who, by the way, I feel that the

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Speaker 1: name of Honeymoon Killer is not exactly appropriate, but we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, But Tina had drowned accidentally

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Speaker 1: while scuba diving in Australia in two thousand three four.

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Speaker 1: Did she I know? Because there are people, including Tina's

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Speaker 1: family and the Australian police, who thinks she was murdered.

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Speaker 1: So we got a mystery here, you think, I think

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Speaker 1: that's usually why we sit down. Yeah, the other reason heresies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. Alright, so let's talk about the death

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Speaker 1: of Tina Watson. But first off, I want to give

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Speaker 1: a shout out to Maggie who suggested this episode, so

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, it's a fun little mystery. And also

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Speaker 1: I forgot my last episode I talked about murder on

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Speaker 1: the Herbert Fuller fun little story and uh, I forgot

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Speaker 1: to mention Rachel, our listener who suggested that one sold. Yes,

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Speaker 1: a belated shout out to you, Rachel High and hope

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Speaker 1: you're not mad about me forgetting previously. It happened sometimes. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: back to our story. Also a warning this episode it

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Speaker 1: involves water, which may frighten some people, so you've been warned.

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Speaker 1: My mom is actually scared of oceans. She's very uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: about the ocean. That is actually a thing. Does that

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Speaker 1: include like walking on the beach or just being out

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Speaker 1: on boats in the ocean when it's so deep and

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Speaker 1: you don't know what's below you. Yeah, anyway, that's a

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Speaker 1: thing I could. I can sort of get that. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: back to our story of Tina and her husband, Gabe.

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Speaker 1: That's his name was David Gabriel Watson. I shouldn't say

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Speaker 1: it was. As far as I always still alive. David

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Speaker 1: Gabriel Watson went by the name Gabe, and Christina May Thomas.

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Speaker 1: She went by the name Tina. They were both twenty

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Speaker 1: six and there from Helena, Alabama. If you're from Helena,

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Speaker 1: if that's pronounced Helena, well I'm sorry, I apologize, but

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Speaker 1: I'll go by Helena. The Tina and Gabe men in

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Speaker 1: college and they've been together about two years before they

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Speaker 1: got married. That was in October two, ius and three,

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Speaker 1: and then they went off of their honeymoon in Australia,

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Speaker 1: didn't they. Then they have kind of an on again,

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Speaker 1: off again relationship during that time. I have heard that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. Okay, That's why I asked, because

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Speaker 1: I had seen it somewhere. It's like, I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know who's the source of that. Well, with these two, uh,

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Speaker 1: you see a lot of stuff about their relationship out there,

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm not sure what to believe, to

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Speaker 1: be honest with you, Yeah, I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the hardest things about reading this is there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of conjecture about the couple and the relationship and in

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Speaker 1: their trip and everything. Like, there's just so much weird coverage. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Some people say they were a happy couple. Other people

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Speaker 1: say they were totally dysfunctional, And I feel people tend

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Speaker 1: to do that. We've definitely covered a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: like this where people really read into the relationship and

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Speaker 1: kind of put their own spin on it, and realistically,

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Speaker 1: nobody can never know what that relationship was like except

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Speaker 1: for the two people who were in it. Ye. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very true. Yeah, and I'll talk I was going

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about that. Well, Tina into

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Speaker 1: is what you you hear from some people, including your

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Speaker 1: family and friends. At the age of twenty six, all

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Speaker 1: of her friends have gotten married, and she was apparently

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Speaker 1: worried that she was gonna wind up being an old maid.

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Speaker 1: Cats with cats, We don't know anybody like that. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't think it's weird to

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Speaker 1: have cats at all, but some people apparently do. But

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Speaker 1: it looks like from what people have been saying, it

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Speaker 1: looks like Gabe was not exactly Mr Wright for Tina,

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Speaker 1: but at least maybe good enough. I guess so Tina

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Speaker 1: was desperate. This is, you know, not necessarily true. This

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Speaker 1: is just what some people have been saying. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: right up there with they got married to fix a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we see in stories they had children to save

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Speaker 1: the relationship. That's what you see that out there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But and then on the other side, Gabe was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a very controlling, Dominetian kind of person. He

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Speaker 1: reportedly said to Tina that, well, if you want to

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Speaker 1: be with me, you're going to have to learn to

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Speaker 1: do the things I like to do, which is fishing

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Speaker 1: and scuba diving. Of course, we've all seen how well

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Speaker 1: the scuba diving turned out for Tea. Yeah. And of

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Speaker 1: course there was a famous engagement ring episode, which I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys have heard about, right, I mean probably

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Speaker 1: our listeners haven't. They probably haven't, let me tell them

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Speaker 1: about that. And again this is um from I think

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Speaker 1: Tina's sister mostly. So can can I give a little

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Speaker 1: caveat here? Which is his family? Gabe family apparently liked Tina. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Tina's family despised Gabe prior to everything going down. That

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Speaker 1: very least, yeah, at the very at least they had

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Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't like it. They weren't sure by

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Speaker 1: this point in time they actually do this question because

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Speaker 1: they spent some bad water under the bridge or something.

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Speaker 1: But but the the engagement ring episode was supposedly after

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Speaker 1: they've been together, like maybe six months or god don't

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, he bought an engagement ring for her

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Speaker 1: and and brings it home in a little bag, a

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Speaker 1: little from the from the jewelers that's got the jeweler's

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Speaker 1: name of the side of it, sets it on top

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Speaker 1: of his big screen TV at home, and then she

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Speaker 1: see sit sitting in the seats of access what's in

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Speaker 1: the bag? And he says, oh, it's an engagement ring,

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Speaker 1: but you can't look at it. And she's like what

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Speaker 1: And he says, no, you can't look at it. If

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Speaker 1: you look at it, I'm gonna return the ring. And

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Speaker 1: so she didn't look at it. And supposedly this is

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Speaker 1: like tormenting her for months according to some people. And

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Speaker 1: this is sort of a telling story of it's a

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Speaker 1: game to him about Gabe, you know, you know, being

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Speaker 1: this sort of manipulative, domineering person. I okay, I mean

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Speaker 1: I don't want to again. Sometimes we put ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the position where we find ourselves defending people who are

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Speaker 1: kind of jerks. But to me, you know, either that

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Speaker 1: is like super domineering or it's his idea of romance,

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Speaker 1: like he you know, he's trying to like build suspense

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Speaker 1: and drawing it out. Yeah, he's like, well, okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna gage and we're gonna get Yeah. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think of situations where guys are like, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: bought the ring six months in because I knew, and

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Speaker 1: then three years later I finally proposed, And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe in his head it was super romantic to be like,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing that we're going to do, but also

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Speaker 1: it is super jerk move. I'd be mad, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: did that to me? Yeah, But again, you don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly how he said it. He might have just said

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Speaker 1: it kiddingly and all that stuff. I mean, I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing too. He could have totally been

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Speaker 1: like joking like ha ha, don't open that, expecting her

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Speaker 1: to open it, and she was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I better not open it. So she interpreted it one way,

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Speaker 1: and he was hoping she would open it because then

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Speaker 1: he'd be like so very be I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think this is this this case is much like uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it was actually your last one, Joe the

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Speaker 1: Herbert Fuller, where the context and the way that the

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Speaker 1: statements were made ken dramatically changed what their meaning is.

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Speaker 1: And that's I think we're gonna we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: talk about that several times from this. And there's there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot said about this one too. Like one

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Speaker 1: of the things that's been said about about Gabe is

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Speaker 1: that he changed his story like sixteen times. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily so, but but anyway, his the picture that's

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Speaker 1: been painted of Gabe and the press, frankly, it's not

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Speaker 1: been good, not at all. And I had no idea

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Speaker 1: how much, if any of that stuff is really true.

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Speaker 1: Probably a lot of his bs, I know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it came from Tina's families. He said things were

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Speaker 1: never great between Gabe and Tina's family, and then of course,

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Speaker 1: after Tina died, while things really went south in a

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Speaker 1: big way, as you would expect. Yeah, yeah, it's understandable.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know, Gabe did sort of get her killed,

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Speaker 1: but encouraged her to get her to get into scuba

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Speaker 1: at the very least. Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and of course they think it went beyond that. I

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Speaker 1: think think he murdered her. But we'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a few minutes. Yeah, uh yeah. And so they've

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Speaker 1: kind of put everything, every aspect of Gabe and his

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Speaker 1: relationship with Tina in the worst possible And I think

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Speaker 1: back to our honeymoon that we've been We've taken a

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Speaker 1: little detour there. But no, they got married, they went

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Speaker 1: out for their honeymoon in Australia, and of course somebody

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Speaker 1: didn't make it back and the other one became known

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Speaker 1: in the press as the honeymoon killer. Uh yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's our mystery. This week. They had about two weeks

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Speaker 1: in Australia and the plan was is that the first

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Speaker 1: week would be Tina's week and they would just do

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Speaker 1: stuff that Tina wanted to do. Uh you know, I'm sorry, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to be super judge and say, like,

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Speaker 1: if you can't compromise with a couple on things you

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Speaker 1: might want to do together. Well, I don't think that

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Speaker 1: it was all this, you know, screw you were doing this,

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Speaker 1: it's my week. I don't think it was quite like

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Speaker 1: that necessarily. It's more like just what do you her

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Speaker 1: turn to plan? Yeah, what do you really want to

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Speaker 1: do in Australia. But that's stuck to me is very

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Speaker 1: weird because I know what I went on mine. It

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Speaker 1: was we have we have these things in this area

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Speaker 1: while we're there, Which ones do we want to do? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean I know what happened on yours, if not

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Speaker 1: in yours. The first week was your wife's week, and

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Speaker 1: then the second week was your wife's week. I was

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Speaker 1: going to say the first week was alcohol and the

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Speaker 1: second week would be more alcohol. Totally true too, Yeah

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Speaker 1: she didn't say that. Yeah, no, okay, but they had

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Speaker 1: so they had a week the during Tina this week,

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Speaker 1: and I see, Tina wanted to experience Australian culture, which

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Speaker 1: you know what Australians do. They drink fosters and they

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Speaker 1: also put on leather outfits, put stuff out on the bobby.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they do that. But they also you know, they

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Speaker 1: wear leather and they and they drive muscle cars at

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Speaker 1: high speeds in the outback. Yeah, and these are all

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Speaker 1: very true statements. And they change people on guitars to

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Speaker 1: the front of cars exactly. And then they had these

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Speaker 1: high speed chases and shooted each other and stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, Australia actually sounds like a pretty pretty place.

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Speaker 1: That's why I want to go to all our Australian

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Speaker 1: listeners before you shut this off and unsubscribe. Sorry, we're

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Speaker 1: having fun. Yeah, we totally are. Uh. Well, then we

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Speaker 1: number two came around. It was Gave's turn, and Gave

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Speaker 1: it booked a trip with Mike Ball's Diet Expeditions. And

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Speaker 1: of course this was a bad idea. Uh nobody knew

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Speaker 1: that at the time yet, but it turned out to

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Speaker 1: be a bad idea because based on my anecdotal analysis,

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Speaker 1: statistical probability of somebody dying on your scuba honeymoon in Australia,

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Speaker 1: it's about that. Actually, that's not right. That's not right. No,

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Speaker 1: because I have friends who did it, and they're both

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Speaker 1: still they both came back. Did anybody on your expedition

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Speaker 1: not come back? Okay, well everybody made it. That that

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Speaker 1: is the exception. Actually, all all I know is I

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Speaker 1: remember reading the paper. This is years ago though, this

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Speaker 1: couple was honeymooning off the Great Barrier Reef and they

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Speaker 1: were scuba diving, and then how you got eaten by

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Speaker 1: a great white shark which I'm sure it cast to

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Speaker 1: Paul over things just and then of course there's this

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Speaker 1: one where Tina died, So there you go. That's pretty high.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And of course there's there might be other

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Speaker 1: stuff going on out there where people scuba div and

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Speaker 1: nothing happens. But I don't know about this, so I

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Speaker 1: don't care. That's not included in your data now exactly

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Speaker 1: used incidents where people were killed in made that I

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Speaker 1: have heard of. So yeah, my data set asist of

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Speaker 1: two U. But our story is, yeah, they're they're on

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Speaker 1: a dive trip with Mike Ball Dive Expeditions and it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a dive on the SS Young Gala,

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Speaker 1: which was a ship that was a shipwreck. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: sat in the cyclone in nineteen eleven. There's two got it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sailing on I know, I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: I thought this was a scuba diving thing, not a

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Speaker 1: shipwreck thing. But you can in the ship. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can dive on the records, but yeah, yeah, the record

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Speaker 1: is not sailing anymore though, it's sort of sitting in

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Speaker 1: one spot. Yeah. Yeah. The Young Gala was rediscovered in

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Speaker 1: night and it's considered today to be one of the

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Speaker 1: world's best wreck dives. And I guess you know. Wreck

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Speaker 1: dives are a big thing with scuba divers. Yeah, very popular.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally because normally you go down there, what's

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Speaker 1: there to look at? A bunch of fish? So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of cool and drom act to be able to

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Speaker 1: look at the wreck ship of swim through it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they encourage people to swim through this one. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean swim through like the top deck in the

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Speaker 1: you go around the cabins, That's what I mean by that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you're not really supposed to go inside

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Speaker 1: when you're not a good idea, No, not really, unless

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Speaker 1: you're very highly rated, which these people aren't. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: things to cut yourself on, and god knows what's living inside.

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Speaker 1: There's exactly something to be thinking about too. I saw

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Speaker 1: finding Nemo, I know those things. Oh yeah, there's all

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Speaker 1: kinds of scary stuff hiding in there. But from the

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Speaker 1: outside of least, it looks pretty cool. Let me give

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Speaker 1: you a quick rundown of how the wreck looks. It's

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Speaker 1: about fifty miles off the east coast of Australia and

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Speaker 1: it's southeast of a town called Townsville. And how far

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Speaker 1: is that in? Okay? Yeah, and it's about twenty eight

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Speaker 1: ms down or about a hundred feet so the sea

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Speaker 1: flowers now it's laying on at starboards side, so it's

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Speaker 1: not super deep. But no, not not really no, And

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Speaker 1: especially you don't have to go all the way down.

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Speaker 1: You can cruise like fifty ft down and see the

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Speaker 1: wreck nice and and just look at it from up.

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Speaker 1: My point was, it's not like you requires some crazy

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Speaker 1: dive set up like Whember we talking about Ben mcdanie

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Speaker 1: the gas mixes that he needs. It's nothing like that. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: not at all. And uh it is considered a sort

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Speaker 1: of difficult dive because of currents and such things. But

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Speaker 1: the wreck is oriented north to south of the bows,

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Speaker 1: pointing north, maybe a little bit off north, but more

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Speaker 1: or less north south. And they've set it up for

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Speaker 1: what essentially with permanent access points or permanent permanent anchor points.

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Speaker 1: Because so many boats are coming and going bringing dive

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Speaker 1: groups there, you can't have people setting anchors all the time.

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Speaker 1: So if they oh yeah, so they they've dropped these

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Speaker 1: massive concrete blocks with chains or ropes attached to them

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Speaker 1: that go up to booties. So your cruise up in

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Speaker 1: your boat full of divers and you just grab one

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Speaker 1: of those booies and tie your anchor line of that

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Speaker 1: instead of dropping an anchor. And there's two two special

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Speaker 1: blocks that are called diver access points or d ap s,

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Speaker 1: and those are there's one of the bow, one with

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Speaker 1: the stern. Also a chain or rope. I've heard it said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure which it is. I've seen a picture

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Speaker 1: of it looks like a rope, but other people have

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Speaker 1: said it's a change. It doesn't matter. It's a line

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Speaker 1: that goes down to about ten ms in front of

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Speaker 1: the ship from a boolly a top and then so

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Speaker 1: that's what you get in, and then you cruise down

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Speaker 1: that the current is flowing from north to south along

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Speaker 1: the wreck, and so what happened. What most divers do

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Speaker 1: is they get in at what's called DAP too diver

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Speaker 1: access point to at the at the bow, go down

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Speaker 1: as deep as they feel like going, and then just

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Speaker 1: let go and let the current take them across just

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Speaker 1: down the length of the wreck, so you can just

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Speaker 1: basically drift over the top of it and check it

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Speaker 1: out and get to the exit. And get to the

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Speaker 1: exit line down one and just climb back out again. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And of course you can do whatever you want. You

307
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Speaker 1: can stop off and explore and you know, prowl around

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Speaker 1: on the on the side of the wreck or just

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Speaker 1: or you can just like I say, drift right over

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Speaker 1: the top of it, just like a lazy river. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty much like a little river. Cruis gonna yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so it looks like water, yeah, yeah, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Yeah. And so on the morning I

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Speaker 1: believe it was October two, the second, two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: they had gotten on their their boat, which was called

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Speaker 1: the spoils board dive boat that they were on. They

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Speaker 1: had gotten on that the night before, and then they

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Speaker 1: spent the night as they on the boat, and then

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Speaker 1: then the next morning I think they actually I think

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Speaker 1: that night they cruised out and just sort of spent

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Speaker 1: the night cruising out there. And they woke up in

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Speaker 1: the morning and they were pretty much there. The spoil

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Speaker 1: spoort tied off at what's called accident or point nine

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Speaker 1: oh five, which is an anchor point two directly to

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Speaker 1: the east of the wreck. And then a little later

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Speaker 1: in the morning another boat showed up, the Jazz To,

327
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 1: which is another dive company, and they tied up at

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Speaker 1: point nine oh four, which is a point north of

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Speaker 1: where the spoil sport was and kind of northeast of

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Speaker 1: the wreck, so the JAZ two was actually pretty close

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Speaker 1: to the bow of the ship. And then later on

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Speaker 1: yet another boat showed up on the other side at

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Speaker 1: point nine oh three and they tied up. That's the

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00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 1: Adrenaline tied up there. So there were three boats in

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Speaker 1: the water there and a lot of divers, and so

336
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: what happened is so they they're making kind of a

337
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: loose triangle on top of the wreck at this point, Yeah,

338
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Speaker 1: kind of around the outside of the wreck. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I had a very popular place, just a teeming with

340
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Speaker 1: divers all the time. Yeah. Well, on that on the

341
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Speaker 1: day of they went to get in the water there.

342
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Speaker 1: So the spoil sport was of course south of the

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Speaker 1: access point. So what would happen is that people would

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Speaker 1: suit up and they would get into it like a

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Speaker 1: rubber rubbering kind of thing, went a little bigger than

346
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Speaker 1: a dinghy, but essentially a boat and uh, and they

347
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 1: would be ferried up to the to the put in

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Speaker 1: point diver excess point too, and and then they would

349
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Speaker 1: all go just go down and do their thing, and

350
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Speaker 1: then they could when they got to the exit point,

351
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Speaker 1: they could either be picked up by a boat or

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Speaker 1: I think they had a rope actually when they tied,

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Speaker 1: they tied a rope across from the spoils board to

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Speaker 1: the exit line, and they also put they also put

355
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Speaker 1: a cylinder of air down there too, at five meters

356
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Speaker 1: down for people who are running low on the air

357
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: but wanted had needed to do a little decompressing, so

358
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,679
Speaker 1: they had an extra cylinder bear hanging down there for

359
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,400
Speaker 1: safety sounds. I think that's standard, right, Yeah, I feel

360
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Speaker 1: like I remember from the Ben McDaniel saying it was

361
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: the compression that like you would have extra especially on

362
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Speaker 1: a on a set up organization like this, absolutely, because

363
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,919
Speaker 1: while a hundred feet isn't going to give you the

364
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 1: worst decompressions, the bends, yeah, there is a chance of

365
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Speaker 1: some of it. So it is good you would want

366
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Speaker 1: to have tanks there so that, yeah, just in case,

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Speaker 1: you know, the guy needs to sit there for five

368
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 1: minutes and he's only got three minutes of air, you

369
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 1: want to encourage him to do the right thing by

370
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Speaker 1: having the air available instead of just saying screw it.

371
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Speaker 1: I've only got three minutes. I'm just gonna get out

372
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 1: and then barfing all over your boat. Yeah, sometimes it's

373
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 1: worse than barfing that the bands are bad my understanding

374
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Speaker 1: of how that works. I'm sure I'll get an email

375
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Speaker 1: about this, but it's just a lot of it has

376
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Speaker 1: to do with depth and also how long you've been down. Yes,

377
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: so it's how long you've been down, and then how

378
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Speaker 1: long you spent taking how long you come up to

379
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Speaker 1: allow the Is it the nitrogen in your blood? Is

380
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,199
Speaker 1: that what it is? I think yeah, I think it is.

381
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Speaker 1: You get little bubbles your blood and stuff, and and

382
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: so there was that there was some controversy about this,

383
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 1: even in that one. Some people feel like Gabe took

384
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: too long to come up to surface. And but we'll

385
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: talk about that soon though. So they were heading out

386
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 1: about maybe ten to get into the water, and they

387
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: were they were one of a group of six divers,

388
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Speaker 1: and they headed out to the access point. I had

389
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,880
Speaker 1: climbed on in with the other divers and sorry, how

390
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: long had Tina and Gabe been Probably should have mentioned that, yeah,

391
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: they were. What Gabe had been doing its dramatically different

392
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: amounts of touch, but just wondering for Gabe had been

393
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Speaker 1: doing it since I believe nineteen and he had a

394
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: total number He hadn't total number of dives like fifty

395
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: six dives, which is and then Tina had I think

396
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: eleven dives under her belt. She was a novice and

397
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: she was not good at it it. Actually Gave was

398
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 1: a novice too. I mean he had a lot of

399
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: his dives were just like kind of pooled dives. He

400
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: actually took his first classes in in a quarry basically

401
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: a flooded quarry, which means there's no current whatsoever. Yeah,

402
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,959
Speaker 1: very contry, old environment. He did a little bit of

403
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 1: ocean diving, not too much, and most of his dives

404
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 1: were pretty shallow. We're talking and I think the deepest

405
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: he ever went was about something like that. That sounds

406
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: about right, Yeah, but yeah, he but he if you read,

407
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: when you do the reading on this, what's so confusing.

408
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 1: This is what really lights some people on fire. People

409
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: will list his certifications. Other than the quote unquote rescue

410
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: dive certification. All he had was basic novice certifications. He

411
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 1: could dive. He was okay to dive on his own

412
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: in a group. He wasn't some crazy super expert dive

413
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: master in any way, shape or form. I'll just mention

414
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: that just because you're certified rescue something doesn't anything really mean.

415
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 1: It means you technically have the knowledge in your brain

416
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: on how to do a given thing, but until you're

417
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: foot in that situation, you have no idea if you're

418
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: going to be able to do it well. Exactly. He

419
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: took this class, and he even set himself in his

420
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: police interview of the class really more covered things like

421
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: just search patterns and stuff like that, like how to

422
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: find somebody versus how to actually do the harry work

423
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: of rescuing the and so you know, he wasn't as

424
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: qualified as as he sort of made himself out to be.

425
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 1: And I don't I'm not sure too. I mean again,

426
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to accuse him of misrepresenting himself. Maybe

427
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: he didn't. He might have you know, he might not

428
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 1: have said he might not. He might have just said, hey,

429
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: you know, I did take this rescue class, and people

430
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: might have heard, oh, he's a certified rescue diver. Maybe

431
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: gave never misrepresented himself at all. I really people have

432
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: said that he did. I don't. I'm not so sure that. Yeah, yeah,

433
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: I feel like he's a bit of a blowhard, but

434
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: say that. The other half of your question was Tina.

435
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 1: She had only been diving in pools if I remember correct,

436
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: or maybe one quarry for like a year. Yeah, and

437
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: she's been in classes and apparently was not good at

438
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 1: it and was kind of panicky underwater. Did not take

439
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: to it like a duck to water, not at all. Yeah,

440
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: she h fish. Yeah instance, Yeah, she did not seem

441
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: to be, but she really seemed determined to learn because

442
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: you know, Gabe was her man, and she wanted to

443
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: do the school of things so she could be doing

444
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: things with him. You know. Okay, I just realized we

445
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: hadn't talked about that yet. And it's actually what they

446
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: did is not un comedy. But like I said, I

447
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: had friends who he was a diver forever. He wanted

448
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: to go to this tropical place and dive on their honeymoon.

449
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: And she said, yeah, let's do that. Let me go

450
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: get this, and she took like six months or a

451
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: year of lessons in preparation before they ever went out.

452
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: Like people do this, there's nothing bad and a fairies

453
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: to say, hey, let's take a dive trip on her honeymoon.

454
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: It's just some people are more take to it better

455
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: than others. Yeah, I and I thought myself, you know,

456
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: I've always thought if I lived in a nicer climate

457
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: with clearer, warmer oceans, I would totally be a scuba diver.

458
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: But we live in Oregon. And let's let's say I said,

459
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: I I know, was some scuba divers and they jet

460
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: halfway around the world. They go to the Caribbean, they

461
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: go to the South Pacific. You know, you can't do

462
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 1: it without a lot of money. But there's not that

463
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: many places to really do a good scuba around here.

464
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: So I'm not a scuba diver. You know, Otherwise I

465
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: would because it's cool. Yeah, I'd love to do it,

466
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: you know. But so they go out with oh yeah,

467
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: so back to our story here. So they go out

468
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: with four other divers and they get in the water

469
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: and go down just a little ways, and then it

470
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: turns out that gives dive computer is not working right,

471
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: and yeah, thats computer is like this this little apparat

472
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: basically a smart watch for underwater. It's like a gigantic

473
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: watch underwater, and it does stuff like it keeps track

474
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: of your depths and stuff. And some of them I've

475
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 1: been told I talked to a dive expert about this stuff.

476
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: Actually is. His name is Austin at Aquatic Sports here

477
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: in Portland, and he was very very helpful and explaining

478
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: how some of this stuff works to me. So dive

479
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: computers can be There's there's several different types. Like the cheapest,

480
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: simplest kind is basically uses computer algorithms to just sort

481
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 1: of estimate, you know, if you put that, you put

482
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: your parameters in. It just sort of says, hey, you

483
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 1: told me you had this moxt ostygen. You've been down

484
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: for this long, you might be running out, dude, you

485
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: know that kind of thing, Real simple stuff. And then

486
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: the more fancier ones like the one Gabe has actually

487
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: has a little radio transmitter that you put in your

488
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: tank and and actually the the it's got a sensor

489
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: that can sense the pressure in your tank, can tell

490
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: you how much air you've got left, which is kind

491
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: of cool, kind of important. And so this one had

492
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: had issues. Uh. In his first statement to the police,

493
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: he said that they got in the water and he

494
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: noticed it wasn't working. In his second statement it was

495
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: later on he's I think it was on the same day,

496
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: but just later in the day with a different interrogatory.

497
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: He said that, well, they got in the water and

498
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: his computer was beeping at him and saying that there

499
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: was a malfunction and saying he had no air pressure

500
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: and so he was So they got back out of

501
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: the water, they get back on the boat, they go

502
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: back to the spoil sports. Yeahina both go together. They

503
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: got to go together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, because

504
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: you got you want your And this is one of

505
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: the things I asked Austin and said, well, you know,

506
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: is it really that important And he said, well, you

507
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: know what kind of is because I guess what divers

508
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: you want to keep track of all your stats. It's

509
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: like a baseball player, you know, And so that's one

510
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: reason they want to keep track of all their dives.

511
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: And your dive computer does that for you. It actually

512
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: keeps his memory and it keeps track of your dives,

513
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: how deep you went, what your oxygen consumption was like,

514
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: and how fast you came you went down and came

515
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: back up, and all kinds of stuff like that, and

516
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: so they like to keep tracking. So so he said,

517
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, I would probably fix it rather than you know,

518
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: just go without. You could do the dive without it.

519
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: But your typical diver is gonna because something A little

520
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: bit has been made about this, about the whole he

521
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: had to go back just because his dive computer wasn't working.

522
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: What's the big deal, dude? You know? And it's thought

523
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: it's an important piece of equipment. Well, it's it's a

524
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: kind of a safety equipment. Yeah. Well it's been thought

525
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: that perhaps there were too many divers around and he

526
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: wanted an excuse to delay and come back out a

527
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: little later when there weren't as many divers. Yeah, exactly,

528
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: And I think it was Dateline NBC actually mentioned this point,

529
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: but they weren't the first of the last to say that. Well,

530
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 1: because he went back to Spoilsport, took out open it up,

531
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: took out the battery, realized it was in backwards, flipped

532
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: it around and put it in the right way, and

533
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: the dive computer worked. So so if his dive computer

534
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: is is beeping at him and he had the battery

535
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: in backwards, it wouldn't have worked. So it had to

536
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: have been the battery on his tank. The little the

537
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: sensor on his tank had been the one that was

538
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: in backwards, or it wasn't actually beeping at him. Well,

539
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: I'm giving him the benefit of that. We'll see. That

540
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: is the point that people have made is they said, like, well, okay,

541
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: if the battery was in backwards, then it couldn't have

542
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: been beeping at him because it wouldn't work at all.

543
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: It's not even going to produce a bit. But if

544
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: the tank receiver is not sending any information, the dive

545
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: computer theoretically would be like, hey, you have no air.

546
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: You have no air. It's getting no signal. That was essentially,

547
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: and apparently what this particular one, It's called an oceanic,

548
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: and Oceanic makes a lot a lot of different models.

549
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: I can't remember what model this exactly was, but but yeah,

550
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: it was the transmitter battery that was in apparent And

551
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: apparently you know how their their coins cells basically, yeah,

552
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: a little bit like watch batteries, right, You know how

553
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: they've got the smooth side that's got the little plus

554
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: sign it and everything, and usually that side is the upside. Well,

555
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: and this one the one that goes the unit that

556
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: goes in the one and your on your wrist is

557
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: like that. But the one that goes in the transmitter

558
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: of the tank is the other way. Around and so yeah, yeah,

559
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: and so that's what happens. You put it in backwards.

560
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: Apparently they recommend taking the batteries out if you're not

561
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: going to use it for a week or more, which

562
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: is not a bad idea with electronic devices, the batteries out.

563
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: So he'd put the batteries in just prior to his trip,

564
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: I think, and I got one of them in backwards.

565
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, he flipped it around and it worked. So again,

566
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't that his computer was working. It's just a transmitter,

567
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: as you say, in his tank was not working, transmitting

568
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: a signal. And I also, just as a note, don't

569
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: find anything particularly nefarious from him first saying it wasn't

570
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: working in second saying it was beeping, because he's saying

571
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, right, he just has had a detail. Yeah,

572
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: it's not yeah, exactly as it's calmed. I mean, as

573
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: he's gotten further away. Well, I mean what happened, Yeah,

574
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: I mean they both essentially saying the same thing. One

575
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: saying it's not working right, you know, beeping or not.

576
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: In the second time it wasn't working right. A little

577
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: more information. Yeah, and this is you know, Joe, you

578
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: just said this earlier. Is that there's the his story

579
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: change sixteen times. This is an example of the quote

580
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: unquote changes. They're very simple little things, and we've talked

581
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: about before, you know, witness statements change and evolve, and

582
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: well that's just what happens, exactly. And the thing about

583
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: it is, too, is he made certain statements to the police,

584
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: and they were more or less the same, although I

585
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: admit I had to admit some of them don't entirely

586
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: make sense, but okay, But then he said other things

587
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: to other people. There were a lot of other people

588
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: there that were fellow divers on the boat and company,

589
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: you know, employees and stuff, and he said various things

590
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: to various people, and also members of Tina's family at cetera,

591
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: Tina's dad and his sister. And then it was out,

592
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: not actually until several years after this whole incident that

593
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: there began to be a big, huge police investigation. A

594
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of these people were not interviewed until several years

595
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: after the fact. And these are people who had talked

596
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: to Gabe. But after several years, I mean, they're all

597
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: going to have different memories and so and so that

598
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: the whole he changed his story sixteen times really kind

599
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: of came from that. All these different people said that

600
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: Gabe said different things. But I mean, but they said

601
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: he said, they said he said this, and yeah, years later,

602
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: and so what do you expect? I mean, I also

603
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: will just briefly mentioned sorry before we get back into

604
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: the story here. Um. I also feel like it's like

605
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 1: either way, right, police are often suspicious. When they're like,

606
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 1: the story didn't change at all, that's that's even more.

607
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: And then they're like, but the story changes, just like, no,

608
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: nobody's ever going to be happy with the moral of

609
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: the story is police are always suspicious, yea, which I

610
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: guessed to. That's that's kind of the nature of their job.

611
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: And alright, so the battery, he fixed it, and then

612
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: what they go back out? Yeah yeah, yeah, they still

613
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: they go back out. And by the way, apparently Tina

614
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: was complaining that she felt too buoyant, and so she, uh,

615
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: she did ask an employee on the boat where the

616
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: weights were because she was she's wearing what's called a

617
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: b c D. That's a buoyancy compensation device, which is

618
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: an inflatable bags. Essentially, it's a vast as part of

619
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: your gear. It's like that your your tank attaches to

620
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: it everything, and it fastens around your body, and it's

621
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: got bladders inside so you can inflate it and change

622
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 1: your buoyancy. And it hooks up to your eoks up

623
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: to your air tank and bleeds ab out that and

624
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: so you can inflate it or deflated is needed to

625
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: change your buoyancy. But she felt and then they also

626
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: have pockets so you can add weight, and so she

627
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: felt like she was underweighted. So she said that she

628
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: say where the weights, and she was pointed towards the ways,

629
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: But nobody actually recalls seeing her grabbing weights and putting

630
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: them in her pockets or what it turns out in

631
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: the end, she wounded up with about twenty pounds of

632
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: weight in her pockets, which some people feel was too much.

633
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: That's about four different chunks of metal she had in

634
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: your pockets. And I don't know because I don't you know. Again,

635
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna vary. It depends on your gear, depends

636
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: on Tina well, Tina wade Uh. I think she weighed

637
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: about hundred forty pounds. I have no idea what her body,

638
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: her body composition was. I don't know she was solid

639
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: muscle or mostly fat. You know fat. I had no idea,

640
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: so it all there's a a lot of variables there.

641
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: I also, you know, you're you're not going to say, yeah,

642
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: the weights are over there and I'm going to watch

643
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: you put them in your vest. You're gonna say, this

644
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 1: is a responsible adult who's making their own decisions. They

645
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: probably find the waiver. The dive company had apparently already

646
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: talked to them and been convinced that they were competent divers,

647
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: although they knew that she was a bit of a novice.

648
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: One thing, they they were apparently they were supposed to

649
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: do a test dive with her. They're supposed to do

650
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: an orientation die and that never happened. So that, you know,

651
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure that the guy on the boat who is

652
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: helping out is presumes these things have already been taken

653
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: care of, so it's not his job to watch her

654
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: like she's a two year old child. Well yeah, actually,

655
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: you can't be just badgering people left and right, saying, oh,

656
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: by the way, are you sure you can handle that

657
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: weight and confident? I can't really be saying that people,

658
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: you know. But so she puts in her vest, She

659
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: puts in her vest, and and she might have overweighted herself.

660
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: Had to say, it seems in the light up everything

661
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: that happened afterwards, she might have um and uh, And

662
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: that's one thing I should say about the company. So

663
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: they did kind of like drop the ball on this

664
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: a little bit, a little fast and loose. Yeah, they

665
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: probably should have. I mean, I mean I think that

666
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: really this whole situation would have turned out just fine

667
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: if if but these two but really, Gave and Tina

668
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: were not were They were both basically novices, you know,

669
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: both of them were. And they should not have been

670
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: die buddies on that. On that particularly, they should have

671
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: had more experienced dives. But yeah, they should have. They

672
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: should have been paired off with the experienced die But

673
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: they really should have. But I'm sure from their point

674
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: of view, A, it's our honeymoon. We want to be together.

675
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: We want to be together to drift past this wreck.

676
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so magical, you know, and all this

677
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: stuff romantic. Yeah, put an engagement ring on it. That's

678
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: a good point. I was too late for that. Yeah,

679
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: So back on the boat. They got back on the

680
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: little boat is and then it's just the two of them. No, actually,

681
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: they were I think four divers this time again. Yeah,

682
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: so I don't think they were. I think there were

683
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: fewer divers. I think they were like the two of

684
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: them and then two others, one of whom was Wade Singleton,

685
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: who was like the diving director on this trip. So

686
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: he was like the most senior diver on the ship.

687
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: And he is actually the guy who wound up like

688
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: fishing Tina. He rescued her. Yeah, but so he was

689
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: there and they all they headed back down and they

690
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: seemed to go okay, at least for a little bit.

691
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: They went down about and I think they wound up

692
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: at about a depth of around forty five ft. They

693
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: went down slowly, but they were in the water probably

694
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: at a maximum of ten minutes. And it was actually

695
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: not too long after they got in the water and

696
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: got down to about forty five ft And apparently they

697
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: were drifting down stream or from not because there is

698
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: a current going from from it's moving from the south

699
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: from yeah, from north to south south from the from

700
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: the bow towards the stern. They were moving with the current,

701
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: and Gabe said later that he felt the current was

702
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: way too strong. He thought it was really super strong,

703
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: much stronger than he had been expecting, and that apparently

704
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: what was a little bit scary for both him and

705
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: Tri Tina. And they were of course being pushed away

706
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: from the entry line the adapt to the stir that

707
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: excuse me, the bow line, and they were getting down

708
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: about probably maybe ards, so essentially visibile. It was about

709
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: fifty or twenty yards underwater that they kind of they

710
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: kind of lost sight of it. I mean, they kind

711
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: of knew where it was because the ship was underneath them,

712
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: but at this point in time, they drifted over the

713
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: ship and apparently um Gibs said that Tina's seemed to

714
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: be anxious and she signaled she wanted to go back

715
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: to the back to the line and get out. Apparently

716
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: she was having and I could sort of see it

717
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: because I mean, um, I haven't scoped it, but I've

718
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: done a lot of snorkeling in the ocean. Not in Hawaii,

719
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: by the way, but that snorkel then, and it's a

720
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: really alien environment. It is kind of it is if

721
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: you're not used to it, it's kind of scary, you know,

722
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: and especially when you're drifting over this huge whole clop

723
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: of ship. There's something about huge objects underwater. That's kind

724
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: of intimidating, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, it is,

725
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: and that I can't explain it, but but that's that's

726
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: just what it is. And so it might have been that,

727
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly. It might have been the current.

728
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: She could have just been like nervous and uncomfortable. I mean,

729
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: if this was her first time really in the ocean

730
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: scuba ying. Yeah, gave at one point, I ever heard

731
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: a statement somewhere he suggested that instead of trying to

732
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: get back up to the entry line, they just go

733
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: straight up. And apparently but she wanted to get back

734
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: to the line. He's stilly point she had in her

735
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: brain apparently where Yeah, and uh, I think it's it's white.

736
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: I think she probably wasn't nervous because her dive computer.

737
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: They one of the things that police did is they

738
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: they seized the dive computers from Gabe Antina. They took

739
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: them into Casto because you can download all the information

740
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: on those things. And also they grabbed Wade Singleton's computer

741
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: too and downloaded his information. And apparently it her dive

742
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 1: computer did record much higher than normal use of air.

743
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: So that's what happens when you're scuba diving and you're, yeah,

744
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: breathing way too fast. So apparently she was pretty scared

745
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: and nervous and sorry, I was in visible, I mean,

746
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: was he did he have visibility towards the couple or

747
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: I don't think he was with us to him at

748
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: this point in time, but he was, he was somewhere

749
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: not too far away, because again he he did sort

750
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: of like, you know, was Johnny on the spot when

751
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: she finally went down. But I'm getting ahead of myself

752
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: there though. But but they were I think at this

753
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: point kind of like not really visible to anybody because

754
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: I was ge getting limited visibility in the water there.

755
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: And according to Gabe, they started, he took her hand

756
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: and they started swimming together back up against the current

757
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: towards the line. He said it was tough going because

758
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: of the current. And then they paused at one point

759
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: and she apparently was getting negatively buoyant, and so he

760
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: pointed towards the button on the BCD, the buoyancy compensation device,

761
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: and you hit that button and it will push air

762
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: into that and make it more positively buoyant. So he

763
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: indicated that to her, and he said it looked to

764
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: him like she was actually hitting the button, but nothing

765
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: was happening. It wasn't changing her status at all. So

766
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: at that point, well it was time to continue on.

767
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: He grabbed her, I think by the shoulder of her

768
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: harness this time, and started heading back towards line again. Well,

769
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: the thing about the b c D though, is it's

770
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 1: not like the emergency raft on a boat that just

771
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: goes and it's completely flow. It's a it's for making

772
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: small adjustments, so you don't want it blasting huge quarity.

773
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: So she's like pushing it, you know, tap tap tap tap,

774
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: thinking why is this thing not inflated? That would explain

775
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: why they're not getting the reaction that they expect. That

776
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: could have been it. But but anyway, he headed on

777
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: back to the line some more, and he said, at

778
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: this point in time she was getting heavier. It seemed

779
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: like she was like no longer swimming and she was

780
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: just sort of hanging vertically underneath him as opposed to

781
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: horizontally swimming. Next it looked like yeah, at that point

782
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: they stopped. He still had hold of her, and apparently

783
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: she panicked and thrashed around and knocked his his respirator

784
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: out of his mouth. And knocked his mask off, ESQ

785
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: on his face and shows it with water and it

786
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: was his mask fills with water. He so he likes,

787
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: let's go over and it pulls his mask back into place,

788
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: and then he has to like blow some air out

789
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: through his nose to clear the mask. And then he's

790
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: got to find his his respirator and it's like floating

791
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: off somewhere he can't see out of his vision, but

792
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: they've got a backup that's also on the bc D.

793
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: So he grabs that sticks out in his mouth and

794
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: then he looks and while Tina is Tina has floated downwards.

795
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: He's just sinking. She's now sinking downwards slowly. He said

796
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: that she was sinking looking up at him with her

797
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: arms out stretched towards him, but not really doing anything,

798
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: not really not kicking or screaming or fighting or doing

799
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: anything like you would expect somebody to do in a

800
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: situation like that. Uh. And he said at this point

801
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: that what he did is he upbended himself. And and

802
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: of course I didn't mention that. I don't think he

803
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: had been actually hitting his bc D and inflating it

804
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: for the drag and uh. And so he upbends himself

805
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: and tries to swim down after her, and he said

806
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: he couldn't make it to her. Possibly possibly, I'm not

807
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: totally sure about how much that true or not. That's

808
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: one of the parts of the story that really doesn't

809
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: make sense. This is one of the things I ran

810
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: past Austin into aquatic sports said, it said, does that

811
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: make any sense to you at all, even if his

812
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: bc D was totally inflated, that he couldn't get down

813
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: to her, couldn't catch up with her. And he said, no,

814
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: it makes absolutely no sense at all, even with an

815
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: over inflated bc D. That's really weird that that he

816
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to, you know, give a few kicks

817
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: of his fins and get down to her. But according

818
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: to him, he couldn't get to her, and so at

819
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: that and he he had to make a decision. He's

820
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: he thought, well, okay, I can keep going after he's

821
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: going to hit bottom here eventually, and then I can

822
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: catch up with her. But what happens if I hit

823
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: bottom and for whatever reason, I can't raise her up

824
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: off the bottom and get her to the surface. What

825
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: happens then, Well, then I've got to take that much

826
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: longer to get up a hundred feet versus fifty feet

827
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: where I'm at about now. The think the greatest depth

828
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: on his on his computer was at that day. Yeah,

829
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: and so so his thinking was what he told the

830
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: police later, was well, Okay, if I follow her all

831
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: the way down, I can't get her up. It's gonna

832
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: take me that much longer to get up to the

833
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: surface to get help. And so, uh, maybe it's better

834
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: if I turn and go for help now. And so

835
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: that's what he said. He did as he turned, and

836
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: he headed like not just up, but also towards the

837
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: diver access point at the bow, where he says he said,

838
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: there were a couple of divers hanging onto it at

839
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: that and he went up and tap damaged and grabbed

840
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: him and shook them and said and tried to gesture

841
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: and make it clear that there was trouble and and

842
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and they just sort of looked at

843
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: him like what Because yeah, I said that at least

844
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: one of them was an Asian guy, and so maybe

845
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: he didn't speak English well, And you know, I think

846
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: it's their novices. They don't understand the hand signs because

847
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: he's underwater at this point still. Yeah, Yeah, and that's

848
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: he was just trying to tell you. It's just he

849
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: was just trying to say, like, you know, he had

850
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: no idea exactly who these divers were, and so the

851
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: only identifying characteristics you can see is he can see

852
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: a couple of Asian eyes looking at him through the

853
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: that's out of the mask. And so that's about it

854
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: as far as describing these people. And of course later

855
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: on they identified a few Koreans that were on the

856
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: jazz to who neither one of them actually remembered this incident,

857
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: which was kind of didn't look so good for Gabe

858
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: when it turns out it doesn't look that good. Uh

859
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: So he gives up on trying to get them to help.

860
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: So he goes he continues on upwards and when he

861
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 1: gets there, he gets he yells at the boat and

862
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: says his wife has gone down and she's in trouble.

863
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: And the alarm goes up, and I guess on his

864
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: radio people on the people on the boat start sitting

865
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: up and getting ready to go down for a search

866
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: and rescue. But as it happens, Wade Singleton comes along

867
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,479
Speaker 1: and notices somebody laying on the on the ocean floor

868
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: next to the ship and thanks, yeah, exactly. Something a

869
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: little hanky there, Yeah, something about her body language and

870
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: the fact that she's not moving. So he goes over

871
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: there and shakes her a little bit and nothing's going on.

872
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: So he grabs her and hits her BCD button to

873
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: inflate it as much as you and they head on up.

874
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: They took about I think a minute and a half

875
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: to ascend to it the hundred feet, which my understanding

876
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: is that's kind of a breakneck pace to go up

877
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: from a hundred feet for in scuba terms. Well, yeah,

878
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: but circumstances, univergency circumstances. But for Wade, you know, obviously

879
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: for Tina at this point she was dead and not

880
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: to give away the game, but oh well I already

881
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: have so. But for him it was a risk that

882
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: he there was a big risk, but he got her

883
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: up there and they spent about forty minutes I think,

884
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: trying to resuscitate her. The nearest boat was the Jazz Too,

885
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: so they put they took her over to the Jazz Too,

886
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: and it turns out there was there were a couple

887
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: of doctors that happened to be just diving on the

888
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: boat and they got it. They got them over there

889
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: to help out with with some of this, and after

890
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: everything they did, they gave up after about forty minutes.

891
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: The game wasn't on that boat he was. He went

892
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: to it. He ended up on a different boat. He

893
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: ended up back on the spoil Sport. Yeah, he was

894
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: back on the spoil Sports, standing in the stern of it.

895
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: And a lot has been made of that, is that,

896
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, he was on the spoil Sport. His wife

897
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: is on the Jazz and they're trying to resuscitate her.

898
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: And what's he doing hanging out on the spoils board

899
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: when she's over there and you know, dying apparently, and

900
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: so well, you know that is a question. I guess, Yeah,

901
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: but he did. I mean, he didn't know exactly where

902
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: she was not And it's not as if they're going

903
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: to say, quick, send the dinghy over, bring the distraught

904
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: husband over so he can get in the way. Well

905
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: we try to resuscitate this. Well, you know, I I

906
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: don't know that that would be high on their list

907
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: of things to do. Probably not, probably not. Yeah. I

908
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: also think, yeah, if you have somebody who's distraught, you know,

909
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to say let's move this person.

910
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna say, let's try to keep this person here

911
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: and calm, because if you try to move this person,

912
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: you risk having more than one victim, you know, if

913
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: he jumps in and like tries to swim there, but

914
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: he's panicking, and what I mean, you just you have

915
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: to minimize the victims. Yeah, and so so he's so

916
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: that's what was going on. It didn't look so good

917
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: from some people's points of view, I suppose, um, And

918
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: there was there were a lot of different statements that

919
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: were made, some of which are rather apocryphal. Um. You know,

920
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: there were many things, many weird things. A lot of

921
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: his story didn't make sense. And then there was you know,

922
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: one of the local Australian police overheard him at that

923
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: there was a body viewing at the corners, you know,

924
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: they had to identify the body, and they left him

925
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: with her body for a little while, and policemen overheard

926
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: and mumbling to her, I'm so sorry, and I never

927
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 1: meant to hurt you, and I shouldn't have kept taking

928
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: you down and I'm sorry I couldn't stop it. That's

929
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: what the police said. Gabe said to you, Tina's body,

930
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: those all those statements go both ways. Yeah, let's talk

931
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: about that in theories maybe yeah, maybe. Uh, And so

932
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: that's where we're at. The it went on, it was

933
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: originally classified as an unfortunate accident. There was of course

934
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: an investigation anyway, but there was still classified as an accident.

935
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: But then one of the divers actually that was on

936
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: the boat, I remembered feeling a little at the at

937
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: the time, feeling a little bit uneasy about the situation

938
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: and thinking that that after he after talking directly to

939
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: Gabe and hearing his story, feeling like that it just

940
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. And when he got back to

941
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: the States, he looked up Tina's father, Tommy Thomas, and

942
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: uh and and they've ranged a little meeting and and

943
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: he and this guy tells Tommy all the doubts that

944
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: he had in his mind about this whole thing. And

945
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: of course the Thomas family, they've they've been kind of

946
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: wondering about this whole situation for a long time. Now

947
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: this sort of gelled thinks for them, and they started

948
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: this campaign to get the Australians to reopen the investigation. Eventually,

949
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: so compressing a lot of stuff in a small amount

950
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: of time. Uh, they did. They reinterviewed a lot of people,

951
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: They had an inquest and everything, and they decided to

952
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: indite Gabe for murder because the theory being that he

953
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: had oh and I forgot about. There was another doctor,

954
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: doctor Stutts, who also of course, this is sometimes time

955
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: after the fact, when he was interviewed, he testified that

956
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: he spotted Gabe and Tina underwater. He because he followed

957
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: them into the water. Later he saw them and he

958
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: was Gabe was holding Tina in a bear hug. The

959
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: bear hug, and so that the police's theory is that

960
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: he grabbed her, cranked off her air supply and basically

961
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: held her that bear hug so that she couldn't get

962
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: to the surface or do anything. And then once she

963
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: had died and drowned and everything, he turned her air

964
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: supply back on so everything would look okay, and let

965
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: her just drop and concocted this whole ludicrous story about

966
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: how it was all a horrible accident when he had

967
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: actually murdered her. And by the way, it turns out,

968
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: there was some life insurance money involved. Uh yeah, a

969
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: decently large amount. According to Tina's dad. She said that

970
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: Not long before the wedding, she had told him that

971
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: the Gabe wanted to her to increase the amount of

972
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: her life insurance and also make him to be the

973
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: beneficiary of it. Well, they were about to be may

974
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: so the beneficiary thing makes sense, it kind of does. Yeah,

975
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: I know, maybe the increases makes sense too, Yeah, it might. Yeah,

976
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean there's a there's a whole bunch of reasons

977
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: to change it. I mean, I don't know what his

978
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: reasonings were. But again, this is one of those things

979
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: can be very innocent or very very it can look

980
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: kind of bad. I think. Yeah, I think the way

981
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: it was set up is where she was working, and

982
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: I used to have a job that was like this.

983
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: You could get the minimum basically employer paid, you get

984
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: the minimum life insurance. And that's what she was doing.

985
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: And he's he just said, well, you know, it doesn't

986
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 1: cost that much in premiums. You know you should bump

987
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: that up, you know, you really should. It doesn't cost

988
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: all that much and you know a lot of Huger

989
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: benefit out of the whole thing. And uh so, I

990
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: don't know that he actually pressured her. If he just

991
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: sort of set it off and one day you know,

992
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: you ought to you ought to increase that it wouldn't

993
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: cost you that much. And uh so, I don't know

994
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: exactly how Again that we have Tina's father for this,

995
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: and that Tina never as far as I don't know,

996
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: she never told anybody else about this, so we only

997
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: have his word for the whole thing. Turns out that

998
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: the but you know, the life insurance did actually play

999
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: a role in the prosecution. This is in Australia. Yeah, yeah, okay,

1000
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: so this is the Australian prosecution which is now charging

1001
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: him with murder. Is still we haven't even got two theories.

1002
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: This is what happens. Yeah, this is what happened. And

1003
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: I'm compressing as much as I can. And this story

1004
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: is pretty huge actually, um it was a huge sensation,

1005
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: especially in Australia, but even it generated some news up

1006
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: here too in the States. But it turns out the

1007
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: policy it was worth about thirty three bucks, so that

1008
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: was a lot. Yeah yeah, annual salary. Yeah essentially, um so,

1009
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: and Gabe was not the beneficiary of It's hard to

1010
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: say if that was a sufficient motive or not. It

1011
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: sounds like not to me, but that did play a

1012
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: part in the prosecution's reasoning that was that was the

1013
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: motive for doing that. He was mad that he wasn't

1014
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: with beneficiary. No, that maybe he was mistakenly believing that

1015
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: may mistakenly believed that she hadn't had jacked up the

1016
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: amount and had made him the beneficiary, but he was

1017
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: too careless apparent to check before they left for that

1018
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: that would be a jacked up amount for me, Like

1019
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: I had the similar situation as you were talking about

1020
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: that my employer pays a certain amount and it's not

1021
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: thirty three a year, but I don't know. Yeah, I

1022
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I have a definite amount that

1023
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: I will murder somebody for not thirty three now sorry

1024
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: yeah now. And by the way, you guys haven't meaning

1025
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: to talk to you about life insurance. So he he is,

1026
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: he is convicted in Australia. They knocked at that essentially

1027
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: negotiated a plea for manslaughter. So he returned voluntarily to

1028
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: Australia to stand trial for the charges and basically agreed

1029
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: to plead guilty to manslaughter and was sent to like

1030
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: a year in prison and then it was linked in

1031
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: to about a year and a half because the family

1032
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: was upset, and that Thomases were upset. He spent a

1033
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: year and a half. He spent yeah, a certain amount

1034
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: of time and in Australian prison, and eventually was after

1035
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: he got out, he was deported and sent back to

1036
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: the States, and the Australians said, meanwhile, I mean, a

1037
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: lot of the investigation actually had been uh what's the

1038
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: word I'm thinking of here at the ages of Alabama police.

1039
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: Essentially somebody and the behest of the Tommy Thomas, got

1040
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: in touch with the local police in Alabama and spelled

1041
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: the whole thing out to them, and so and so

1042
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: they had actually gone the Alabama police lit a fire

1043
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: under the Australians a little bit. She end up interests

1044
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: over there, gotten their conviction. Now he's back. They want

1045
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: to try him from murder here in the States, which

1046
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: in their theory was, well, this looks like a coldly calculated,

1047
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: well planned out murder, so he must have planned this

1048
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: back here in Alabama, therefore we can prosecute it from murder,

1049
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: even though it took place halfway around the world. So

1050
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: they were planned. They were they were going to take

1051
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: him to trial and try to convict to the murder. Uh,

1052
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: and apparently the judge threw it all out. Yeah, they

1053
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: had no case. Yeah, essentially, the judge said, what are

1054
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: you doing here? You've got no case. Okay, So that's

1055
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: where it is. Uh. Gabe has since remarried. His new

1056
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 1: wife is not dead. She do look a lot like Tina.

1057
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: Well that's not surprised, and we all have a type. Yeah, yeah,

1058
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: it's not. It's true that out there, just because I

1059
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: see it everywhere. People just get excited over that. In

1060
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: that first date though, and it's like, oh, you've ever

1061
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: been married? Oh yeah, she died. What happened? Oh she

1062
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: died in our honeymoon. Everybody thinks I killed her. I didn't,

1063
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: I swear they but they called me the honeymoon killer

1064
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: just so you know. But apparently they made it past

1065
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: that little hump and wind up getting married and she's still,

1066
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 1: like I said, still alive. Uh So that's about. That's

1067
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: about it. There's a lot more out there if you

1068
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: want to do more research on our little mystery. There's

1069
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: tons of stuff out there. It's time for us to

1070
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: get into theories. But before we do that, let us

1071
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: take a really brief break. Take a look at me now,

1072
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: the rufous leaking. I'm just standing here. Oh think twice.

1073
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Another day in paradise. I

1074
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 1: believe in me is easy. I can feel it coming

1075
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: in the air tonight. This must be love. I missed again.

1076
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: Tomorrow never knows. Do you know what any of that means? Yeah?

1077
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean neither. You should probably pick up a copy

1078
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: of Not Dead Yet by Phil Collins so he can

1079
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: explain it, or better yet, why don't you get it

1080
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: from Audible and let him read the book himself? I mean,

1081
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: who doesn't love to just sit around and listen to

1082
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: that guy all day? Yeah, well there is the past,

1083
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: Mrs Collins, But that's just not fair. So go to Audible.

1084
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: Audible just launched the first ever Binge listening event, and

1085
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: you are invited to binge on great listens and big

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00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: savings with their biggest sale ever. Enjoy the benefits of

1087
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: gold Audible membership, celebrity narrated Audible books, new podcasts and

1088
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: audio shows, exclusive content, and more a fifty dollar savings

1089
00:53:53,320 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: since Audible's annual membership retails for the sale ends US seventeen.

1090
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: Learn more at audible dot com slash binge. Okay, we're back,

1091
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: Time to talk about theories. They're essentially three series here.

1092
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: Uh one is well murder, that's the prosegation theory. He

1093
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: killed her. Then. It's not surprising to me that some

1094
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: people were a little suspicious because a lot of parts

1095
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: of gabe story really didn't actually make a lot of sense,

1096
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: Like the part about not being able to catch up

1097
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: with her when she was sinking underwater. I mean that

1098
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: that that didn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

1099
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: Of course, as you know, it is awfully suspicious about

1100
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: the insurance policy thing and wanting her to bump up

1101
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: the the amount and all that stuff. Of course we

1102
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: know that really amounts to nothing. There's also that talk

1103
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: about Gabe controlling personality that and so maybe after a

1104
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: week in Australia, maybe something or another cause gave to

1105
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: sort of think that, well, Tina is just a little

1106
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: wild stallion that will never be that will never be tamed,

1107
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: and so I gotta kill her, right right? Yeah? Or

1108
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: maybe she ferred with some handsome Australian dude and he

1109
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: went nuts with jealousy and decided to kill her. Yes,

1110
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: she met Paul Hogan. Yeah, you know. And I gotta

1111
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: say about about this part is that if he was

1112
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: a total control, controlling sort of person, you know, the manipulative,

1113
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: controlling whatever, and he found somebody that was willing to

1114
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: put up with that. I wouldn't I wouldn't have thought

1115
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: he would have killed her. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like

1116
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: that's a fine. Another another thing is the battery malfunction

1117
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: is diet computer. Again, what we talked about the fact

1118
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: that he reversed the battery and but it was beeping

1119
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: before and I was working. Well, apparently the prosecution didn't

1120
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: actually trouble themselves to try to try to figure out

1121
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: exactly how the thing worked. Uh. Yeah, Actually, there's another

1122
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: website on that's out there. It's got a fantastic about

1123
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: of information about this case. It's actually written by a

1124
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: professional diver, and he explains that all the whole battery thing.

1125
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: But apparently the prosecution made much of the state. They

1126
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: really said that that was part of their theory is

1127
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: that he wanted to murder or he planned it out

1128
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: and he faked a malfunction in his dive computer so

1129
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: that he could get her by herself and not go

1130
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: down with all those other divers. Well, then there's the

1131
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 1: you know, they also were figured he was doing something

1132
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: weird murder was guilty. Proof of his guilt was shown

1133
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: in the fact that he always got so upset about

1134
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: all the stuff on her grave site, all the flowers,

1135
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: and he kept hauling them away. Yeah, his family, her

1136
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: family would leave flowers there, and he would, he would.

1137
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: They kept disappearing. Somehow they chained him or started wiring

1138
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: him down, cabling him down and stuff and uh and

1139
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: and then they would still disappear. And they finally put

1140
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: a closer like a camera out there, and turns out

1141
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: and Gabe was busted. He was the one removing the flowers.

1142
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: But I don't think there's anything too that though, because

1143
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: he may have thought that it was highly disrespectful, because

1144
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: this is something I have friends that refer to the

1145
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, like where there's an accident and people leave

1146
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: memorials and balloons and all of that, and then nobody

1147
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: takes that down and three or four weeks later it's

1148
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: well they call him. My friends refer to those is

1149
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: trash trees. Yeah, and so he may have said, you jerks,

1150
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: why are you turning my my dead wife's grave into

1151
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: a trash tree? That's it. Yeah, that's the thing. I

1152
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like some of the stuff they left

1153
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: was plastic artificial flowers, which he thought were tacky, and

1154
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: and and as far as the other flowers, I don't

1155
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: know if he was removing fresh roses or if they

1156
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: were like a week old kind of dead looking. I

1157
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I really don't. But apparently, uh yeah,

1158
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: that lot, a lot was made of that. And I

1159
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: don't know what to make of it myself personally. But

1160
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: and there's also the fact maybe he just did it

1161
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: out of pure spite. And let's a lot of us,

1162
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: let's face it, we can be perfectly decent person and

1163
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: not murderers and still be kind of petty that happens.

1164
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: If that happened. Uh well, of course there was the

1165
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: other thing. The Asians on the on the entry line

1166
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: up at the bow. Uh yeah, that's two Koreans that

1167
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: he said, he's an You talk to a couple of

1168
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: Asian people. But when the police went back and interviewed everybody,

1169
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: the only Asian people that were out there that day

1170
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: didn't didn't remember any instant Okay, but nobody we're saying

1171
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: they interviewed and nobody remembered or just specifically, the two

1172
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: Koreans didn't remember because it's possible he mistook their race. Yeah,

1173
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: so did they ask everybody? Well, the way they want

1174
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 1: about the whole thing is they didn't necessarily track down

1175
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: like everybody from say the Jazz to they didn't. I

1176
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: think they tried. I think they got ahold of these Koreans.

1177
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: I think they might have interviewed them through via email.

1178
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think it was actually a one

1179
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: of them. I think that's suspicious. I just think it's

1180
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: not I think they didn't do their due diligence. That's

1181
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: entirely possible that they bungled out a little bit. It's

1182
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: also entirely possible that the Asians maybe at the time,

1183
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: this guy is all all disturbed and they're like, what

1184
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: the hell, dude, we want on vacation, leave us alone,

1185
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: and then afterwards they hear what happened. Oh my god,

1186
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: somebody drowned. That's what's her husband? Oh man, I feel

1187
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: really bad. And so maybe they were just kind of

1188
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: embarrassed to talk about this guy desperately needed our help

1189
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: and we blew them off. I feel kind of bad

1190
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: about that. So maybe I really don't know, or could

1191
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: have just been memory, because I don't think these people

1192
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: were contacted for quite some time after the actual drowning.

1193
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: It does seem like you would remember that. But again,

1194
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: it's so easy. I have friends who are friends with

1195
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: people and they said, oh, yeah, he's his mom's Chinese,

1196
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: and and that guy's like, no, I'm German, like German,

1197
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: but they think he's, you know, half of some sort

1198
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: of Asian descent. And I mean it identifying races just impossible. Well,

1199
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: it could have been that. It could have been to

1200
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: these people. They had their masks on. The masks were

1201
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: just clamped out a little too tight and was sort

1202
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: of pulling their face like this to make their lives

1203
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: kind of like like under pressure. Yeah, okay, but there's

1204
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: the whole hug. There's the doctor stuts in this testimony

1205
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: about the bear hug. So can we talk about that

1206
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: for a second, because that makes absolutely no sense. So

1207
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: I was I talked to a couple of people like

1208
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: you did, people I knew who could dive. And it

1209
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: takes like a dozen revolutions of the knob on a

1210
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: tank to turn it all the way off and then

1211
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: back on. And it's yeah, and it's not an easy

1212
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: thing to do because it is under pressure. So It's

1213
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: not like your faucet, you know in your garden, where

1214
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: you just each reach reach and it just turns. No,

1215
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: you've got to put some force into it. It would

1216
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: have taken him a good little bit to do that

1217
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: in a bear hug scenario. Yeah, probably would have. So,

1218
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't also her censor have her computer have

1219
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: shown that if she had just stopped consuming air for

1220
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: a little while, You would think it would have shown that, Yeah,

1221
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: or the well, I don't know, how are you getting at,

1222
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: would have shown that the air going through the regulator

1223
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: was reduced. Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, I

1224
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: guess it would have shown like a decrease, right, Well,

1225
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure, Well it did show a decrease because she

1226
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: stopped breathing, But I don't I don't know that it

1227
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: would have been able to distinguish that decrease being because

1228
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: the valve was turning. I don't think it would record

1229
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: that kind of content now, and it wouldn't, I don't

1230
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: think now. But and those things don't record everything, especially

1231
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: this is two thousand three. It's hard, it's hard to remember,

1232
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: but actually storage was not as as easy and tiny

1233
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: as it is today. It's amazing what we get into

1234
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: a tiny little card these days. Thousand and three was

1235
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: a little different. Yeah, yeah, definitely was different. So are

1236
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: there more suspicious things here? See? What we had the

1237
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: bear hug, and there was the fact that she became

1238
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: amazingly negatively boy and all of a sudden, which you know,

1239
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: that's that's actually there. There there are some people who

1240
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: wanted if Gabe actually deliberately overweighted her. I have another

1241
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: question about this because I'm not a diver, and I

1242
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: think a lot of our listeners are not divers. So

1243
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: she put weights in her pockets in her vest, and

1244
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: were those pockets it? Basically the question is is could

1245
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: they not have just unzipped the pocket and taken the

1246
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: weight out? Yeah? Well I was asking Austin about that,

1247
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: and he said that it's when you're actually out there,

1248
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to do. When you get your

1249
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: tanks on and everything, it's kind of hard to get

1250
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: to those pots. But somebody else couldn't have Gabe couldn't

1251
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: have done that for her, not if she was in

1252
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: a panic. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you've ever

1253
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: have you ever seen anybody gets suited up to dive

1254
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: if they need assistance. They're standing there and you're kind

1255
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: of arms a bit at your side, and you're lumbering

1256
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: around and they are getting to everything, and it is

1257
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: then hard to get out of yourself because remember, she's

1258
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: in a wet suit. That's why I'm a king, That's

1259
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: that was one of the things I was I was

1260
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: wondering too. The same thing was how easy is it

1261
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: to grab those weights and chuck them lighten yourself up

1262
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: a little bit? It is easy if she had been

1263
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: wearing a weight belt. If she had a belt, then

1264
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: you because I've known people who have been underwater and

1265
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: was it a seed? He turned around and there was

1266
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: a seal and he wasn't expecting and it was like

1267
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: inches away from his face. He scared the holy crap

1268
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: on him and he just popped a belt and shout

1269
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: towards the surface because it just freaked him out because

1270
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been able to do that had he

1271
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: stucked him into if he had a vest on at

1272
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: the time. And again depends on equipment. It depends it,

1273
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: does you know? I know Wade Wade Singleton actually dropped

1274
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: his belt that day when he when he had to

1275
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 1: get up off the floor. There he dropped his belt,

1276
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: so but that's a different outfit, and that I think

1277
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: Gabe did say something about not being able to You know,

1278
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: it would have been great if he could have if

1279
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: she had been wearing a belt, he could have dropped

1280
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: the belt and that would have helped things. But he

1281
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: wasn't able to do that. And the next step after

1282
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: that is to chuck everything, which is problematical too, because

1283
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: then what you gotta do is you gotta go straight

1284
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: up to the surface, and that's got his issues. Yeah. Well,

1285
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: and if he dropped all of her equipment, they would

1286
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: have had to have been in the buddy scenario sharing

1287
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: a breather the regulator, or if he had figured out

1288
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: where his original regulator was floating around him, then they

1289
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: could have both used them. But he apparently didn't have

1290
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: the wear with all to do that. Yeah, and it

1291
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: turns out to you he found I didn't find out

1292
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: till later when he was cleaning it that the mouth

1293
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: pieces has actually been knocked off of it, so it

1294
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: wasn't really usable anyway. Yeah, and I don't know what

1295
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: exactly that happened, might have been in the incident when

1296
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: it got knocked out of off his face, and out

1297
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: of his mouth. Another thing that was really kind of

1298
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: suspicious was his claim that he was unable to die

1299
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: fast enough to catch her, which we've talked about. Yeah, yeah,

1300
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean from the prosecution's point of view, you know,

1301
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: if you want to draw your wife, you wanted to

1302
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: spend some extra quality time at the bottom of the

1303
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: ocean drowning, Well, that's what you want to do, is

1304
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: let hers think and go and then just you know,

1305
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: come back later. And I still I'm not entirely able

1306
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: to make sense of his claim that he couldn't catch her.

1307
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: That does seem awfully strange. Remember that he is used

1308
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: to swimming in freshwater, Yeah, and when you are in saltwater,

1309
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: your buoyancy goes up. Yeah. So he may have been

1310
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: used to swimming down and expecting to make a certain

1311
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: speed and is not going as fast as he expects.

1312
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: So therefore was judging it saying there's no way I'm

1313
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: going to get there. Yeah, And again perception. Yeah. And

1314
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: there's also another explanation, which I'll talk about in one

1315
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: of my other theories. But another thing that was suspicious

1316
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 1: is this slow ascent after he left her. It took

1317
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: him like three minutes to get to take a top side.

1318
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: I think almost three minutes, although it's hard to say. Well,

1319
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: you know they were using his dive computer, and the

1320
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: dive computer goes in one minute increments, and so it

1321
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: could have been like, you know, just barely over too.

1322
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: It could have been two minutes five seconds and something

1323
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it does. It does look like from

1324
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: the asset it does look like he made a fairly

1325
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: rapid ascent. Again, you think in apparent situation like that,

1326
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: he would have just thrown all the cautions of the

1327
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: winds and just zipped up to the surfaces A S

1328
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: A P. I guess. Yeah, I don't know how recently

1329
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: he had taken the rescue class, but it hadn't It

1330
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: wasn't recent. Okay, Well, I know that you know on

1331
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: land first date thing that the number one thing they

1332
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: drill into you is like you have to put yourself first.

1333
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: You have to put yourself first. You have to make

1334
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: sure you do not become a victim as well. Right,

1335
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: And so if he was thinking, Okay, I gotta do

1336
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: this slow, I can't get the bends. I can't you know.

1337
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: Whereas whereas Wade Singleton, right is his name, who was

1338
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: a very experienced diver was confident in his skill to

1339
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 1: be able to make that ascent in an emergency situation dangerous, sure,

1340
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: but was more confident in his ability and frankly probably

1341
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:30,919
Speaker 1: had done this dive a million times and knew where

1342
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: he was right because Gabe probably also was like, I

1343
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: don't know where I am. I don't know where anybody is.

1344
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: I can't get lost in the ocean if I just

1345
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: flail around and go someplace. And again, I don't necessarily

1346
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: want to defend it, but I do want to say

1347
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: that it's totally possible that in his brain he was like, Okay,

1348
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: I have to and there was a stay calm that was,

1349
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: by the way, the fact that he did take a

1350
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: small break from his asset to talk to the Asian

1351
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: divers on the line at the access the access on

1352
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: the access, so that probably added to his time to

1353
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: his time up. As well as far as Wade goes,

1354
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly Wade actually entered the water. He

1355
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: went out there in the boat with him, but he

1356
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: might have that they went in like a little less

1357
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: than ten minutes before before the whole disaster happened. Wade

1358
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: might have just like just actually entered the water just

1359
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: a minute before and then swimming down the boat, you know,

1360
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: and sees her gets her up. If you've only been

1361
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: underwater for a minute or two, then it's not nearly

1362
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: as serious as if you've been under a longer period

1363
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: of time. It's longer underwater, So maybe that's way. And again,

1364
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, Gabe may have been inexperienced enough to not

1365
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: even be thinking about that, to be thinking like, oh,

1366
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: I've been under for you know, I need a lot

1367
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: of time to decompress. Versus Wade again, who is experienced

1368
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 1: and would have known my risk for my own personal

1369
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: injuries very well. Yeah, and they, Yeah, I'm sure when

1370
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: they they probably they probably teach you and die school.

1371
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: They're probably like you are towards cars, totally and totally.

1372
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: It's so way probably with experience new that you could

1373
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: really push the envelop a lot. No, that's about that.

1374
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: I've got to say that that there's been some We've

1375
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: we talked about the battery malfunction. I don't think that

1376
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: really counts. Dr Stutts. There was an interesting web page

1377
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: out there that I mentioned already. This guy actually looked

1378
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: at all the various data from dive computers, et cetera,

1379
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: and found out when doctor Stutts actually entered the water.

1380
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: It turns out that by the time he entered the water,

1381
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: Gabe was already kind of starting his way up from Tina,

1382
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: so there was no way. So there was actually no

1383
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 1: way if the guy saw anybody bear hugging anybody, he

1384
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: might have seen Wade bringing Tina up off the floor

1385
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: of the ocean. Maybe that's what he saw, but he

1386
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: could not actually have seen this bear hug if it

1387
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: was Gabe and Tina. But nonetheless, his testimony was accepted

1388
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: in court. But it looks to me like it's kind

1389
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 1: of questionable, the slow, the unable to dive fast. But

1390
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. That that that is kind of

1391
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: been explicable. But I don't think he murdered her because

1392
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: and here's why. Remember one, he didn't really have a

1393
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: strong motive, is that I can see, you know, unless

1394
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: and lest his motive was well, he wanted to go, like,

1395
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, have his wife die on their honey, even tragically,

1396
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 1: so he could get a lot of sympathy and maybe

1397
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: write a book about it, or maybe a movie deal

1398
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: or something like that. Although that's very that's a long

1399
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: game that's that's not. That's not that's very very likely

1400
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: to backfire on you. Yeah, it's not. That's the reason

1401
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: I really don't think he murdered her. Besides the lack

1402
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: of motive, is that if you truly had killed her,

1403
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 1: then it would have made no sense for him to

1404
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: abandon her body underwater the way he did, because you

1405
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: know he would he should have brought her up. Remember

1406
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: the official theory that would make him the hero for

1407
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: at least instead of making him look like well, basically,

1408
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: it didn't make him look too good that he abandoned her,

1409
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: not at all. And remember the official theory of the

1410
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: prosecution is it gave shut off her air supply and

1411
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 1: held her on her until she drowned. And just a

1412
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 1: quick thing, just for anybody who doesn't know that, I've

1413
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: thought about this, and I know somebody's gonna ask, well,

1414
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: could he have just kinked the air hose, you know,

1415
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: like you do with the garden hose, But you can't.

1416
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: Those hoses are super dense, They're they're made to not

1417
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, I wonder why, because it's kind of

1418
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: important they don't do that. Yeah, I mean, I guess

1419
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: he could have grabbed the grabbed the regulator out of

1420
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: her mouth or the respirator and just pulled it, pulled

1421
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: her away from her and just like not giving it back,

1422
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: and she would have drowned maybe, but nonetheless, no matter

1423
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: how you kind of if he deliberately murdered her by

1424
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: drowning her, then there's no reason not to bring her up. Yeah,

1425
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: he's already got her. She's already dead. She's not gonna

1426
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: like squeal or anything like that. And it certainly would

1427
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: have made him look better, a lot better, because abandoning

1428
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: your your die buddy is a huge deal. I mean,

1429
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: Wade Singleton said, remember him, said that he thought that

1430
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: Gabe should have been prosecuted for that alone, just abandoning her,

1431
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: even if he didn't kill her, she should have been

1432
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: prosecuted for that. Um. And so yeah, that's so that's

1433
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 1: why I don't believe that murder is is the correct

1434
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: area here. I don't think the Gabe actually was the

1435
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: honeymoon killer. Agreed, Yeah, um. And so the next theory,

1436
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: of course, is that it was all an accident. Gave

1437
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: was pretty much telling the truth, you know, so Tina

1438
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 1: loses it, which is entirely possible. Not the first time,

1439
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: it's she's a total novice, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

1440
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: If she had just remained calm, I bet things would

1441
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 1: have been just fine. And so, you know, one thing

1442
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: about Tina that we haven't talked about is in the

1443
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: paperwork that she had to fill out with the dive company,

1444
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: it said do you have any heart conditions? She said no,

1445
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 1: which was a lie. She did she did having a

1446
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: resumet that had been corrected with surgery I think just

1447
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: a couple of years before. Yeah, so that that's like,

1448
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: that's a that's a something that they would not be

1449
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: too comfortable with and would have put her under even

1450
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: more scrutiny. They might not have let her dive, is

1451
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: the way that I understood it. So the fact that

1452
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: she ignored it makes me think that she may have

1453
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: brought some of it on herself. Good thing. I mean,

1454
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: the cause of death was officially drowning. There was no

1455
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: evidence of any sort of heart attack or anything like that,

1456
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: but you never know, I mean maybe here kicked in

1457
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 1: again or something. Yeah, it would have been more of

1458
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,919
Speaker 1: a panic attack, which if she had a heart condition,

1459
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: may have made it even worse in her mind. Oh God,

1460
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm having a heart attack and she's freaking out, and yeah,

1461
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean the thing is that she's yes,

1462
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: she's got air, she's got a regulator in her mouth.

1463
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: But if she's freaking out and she starts yelling, that's

1464
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: when all the water gets in, and that's why she

1465
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 1: would drown or she hypervatolites and sort of kind of

1466
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: passes out. Yea, that that'll do it. Yeah. So again,

1467
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: if she had just been a little calmer about things,

1468
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: it probably would have been good, I think, Gabe. And

1469
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 1: that's not a judge. I know that what you said,

1470
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: that is not a judgment on anyway on Tina. So

1471
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: anybody listening to its. Sometimes we say these things get misperceived.

1472
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: It's a it's a very scary alien environment. It's scary.

1473
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: I was I was just remembering that. Um, you know,

1474
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: I've never been scoop diving or even snorkeling really because

1475
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't like water in my face. Um no, it's fine,

1476
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: I don't. But I remember watching the videos for the

1477
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,599
Speaker 1: Ben McDaniels thing, and even just watching the YouTube videos,

1478
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: and you know, I it was a little unsettling too much. Yeah,

1479
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: it was still that was too much. Yeah, no, I

1480
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 1: like that. I like the whole in the water thing.

1481
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: But that's just me, you know. I mean, but even

1482
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: I you know, I've done the snorkeling, and I've done

1483
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: other fun stuff in the water, but you know, I'm

1484
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: not sure what would happen if I was down there

1485
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 1: fifty feet and maybe I would lose it too, I

1486
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: don't know. But it's and similarly, you don't know what

1487
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 1: you would do if your dive partner were doing that thing, yeah,

1488
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, or what I would do if my

1489
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 1: dive partner put me to show my air. What am

1490
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 1: I saying? Yeah, So we pretty much agree it was

1491
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: not just an accident in the way that gave Well, no,

1492
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: it could have been an accident, I mean, but not

1493
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: the way that Gabe represented it. I actually, I actually

1494
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: think that it may very well have been exactly the

1495
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 1: way he reped presented it. It is just that they

1496
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: were both so inept at the handling the situation that

1497
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: they literally their combined actions was her cause of death.

1498
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: I think so, because, I mean, they didn't need to

1499
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: fight the current to try to get back to the

1500
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: access point. They could have just gone straight up. How

1501
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: long is the how long is it. What's the distance

1502
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 1: from access point to access point? Joe, It's about a

1503
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: hundred hundred. Yeah, it's not it's not a huge especially

1504
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: when you're already in a moving current. Yeah, they could

1505
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 1: have Actually it might have been faster to just swim

1506
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: downstream and easier. Yeah, or or the alternative is just

1507
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 1: go straight up. Yeah, but and so that might have

1508
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: compounded the situation by trying to go back there again.

1509
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 1: And just to pause here for a second to talk

1510
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: about the fact that everyone's like, okay, it was super

1511
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: domineering and blah blah blah. It sounds like he just

1512
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, okay, Tina, we're going to do what

1513
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: you want to do. He you know, in a situation

1514
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 1: where you're kind of a jerk, super dom sneering, aren't

1515
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: you going to be No, if this is the right way,

1516
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: you're not gonna say Okay, we're going to say you know,

1517
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: you're not gonna say I mean, it sounds like kind

1518
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: of what he was thinking was, all right, what she

1519
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: wants to do is going to be the best way

1520
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: to calm her. We're going to do what she wants

1521
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 1: to do. Let's go do this. Even though he may

1522
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: or may not have known it was the wrong call. Yeah,

1523
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: its like considered that to be the right call. You

1524
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: gotta remember too, that at this point, I mean, he

1525
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: might not have even been aware that this is a

1526
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: total life in this situation. Probably might I just said, well,

1527
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: she's wagging out a little bit. We're going to get

1528
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: her back to the line she wants. She gets your

1529
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,639
Speaker 1: hand on the line, she'll calm down and she'll relax,

1530
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: you know, And that he's probably, at least initially, it's

1531
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: possible that he thought, hey, she'll she'll be fine. We'll

1532
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 1: just get her back to the line and she'll settle down. Well,

1533
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 1: I didn't work out that way, but so I would

1534
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 1: not say that this is totally beyond the realm of possibility.

1535
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: But there's one word theory. I like the theory, which

1536
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 1: is that Gabe did not murder her. It was an

1537
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: act to that. But he's also not quite telling the

1538
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: truth about the whole thing. A show me, show me

1539
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 1: what you got here. Yeah, it statements to the police

1540
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 1: which I read. I read his entire well, not everything,

1541
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 1: I read his entire October twenty three statement. There's a

1542
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: transcript out there, and I send you guys a link

1543
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: to that. Did you guys read that? Yeah, it's it's

1544
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot there. There's a lot there, and

1545
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: it's hard to read, um, you know, And not not

1546
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: because I'm semi literally or anything like that, but just

1547
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 1: because of the way it's been transcribed and the way

1548
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: he speaks doesn't really translate to the written page very well.

1549
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 1: I'm told that the video of it is actually much

1550
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 1: much better for understanding what he's saying. And there are

1551
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: transcription heres as well, which doesn't help. But his statements

1552
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 1: to the police indicated he thought that Tina was experience

1553
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: and I was stress and anxiety and maybe even panic.

1554
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: But what if it wasn't heard that lost it. What

1555
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: if it was Gabe who lost it? And so what

1556
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: if Tina didn't actually knock his masks and respirator off

1557
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: of his face. What if he panicked and locked knocked

1558
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 1: hers off of her face and she drowned. What if

1559
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: that help He clocked her in the head and she

1560
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: was semi conscious and therefore drowned because of that, And

1561
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: and it might be that And I'm not a note

1562
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: nocastic expersions on anybody. Anybody can again lose it and

1563
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: just panic a little bit and cause something like this

1564
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: accidentally and maybe not want to fess up to it.

1565
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: So you're saying something is effective. He freaks out, He

1566
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 1: accidentally swings and and clobbers are in the head, and

1567
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: that's what then starts the whole dropping clawbers here in

1568
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: the head, knocks her mask and respirator off her off

1569
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: of her face. But her mask and her mask was

1570
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: in place, wasn't it. You could have gotten it back

1571
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: into place and her masking its respirator and respirator were

1572
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: in place. Yes, but not. But even even leaving that aside,

1573
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 1: he might have panicked also. Well, I guess one question

1574
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: would be then on this theory is why why was

1575
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 1: it that her oxygen consumption was so much higher? And

1576
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: it seems it sounds like his was fairly normal. Yeah,

1577
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: so I mean higher higher than what it experienced diver

1578
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: would use, right, but not, I mean it sounds like

1579
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 1: hers was really high. Yeah. So, like, I mean that

1580
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: feeds into the theory that she was the one freaking

1581
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: out in hyperventilating, not him. But she's breathing shallow and fast.

1582
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 1: He's breathing deep and hard. Yeah. But yeah, but but

1583
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: when you look at it this way, if you if

1584
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: you think that that Gabe actually had a panic attacked,

1585
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: and even if he didn't knock the mask up her face,

1586
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 1: if he was the one who was really panicking, or

1587
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: maybe they both were panicking. One of the things one

1588
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: of the anxieties that he said that he had was

1589
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: well that the current was super strong, which I think

1590
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: is what's the big deal. They're on drift dive, but

1591
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 1: they just have to drift down the length of the boat.

1592
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: And he also was talking about to the police again

1593
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: said well they were they lost sight of the of

1594
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: the entry rope on the bow, and they he knew

1595
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: that there was an exit line on the stern of

1596
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,839
Speaker 1: the ship, but that was as far as he was concerned.

1597
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 1: That was a hundred miles away. That was well, but

1598
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:01,759
Speaker 1: as far as but I was at hadder meters away maybe,

1599
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: but obviously it wasn't visible. It wouldn't be visible for

1600
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 1: a while. He expressed some anxiety about not being able

1601
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: to see it and maybe missing it and being swept

1602
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: out to see. So I don't think this is a

1603
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: rational concern personally. I mean it is in a sense,

1604
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 1: but at the same time it would be it would

1605
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 1: actually be very easy to find that thing. All you

1606
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: gotta do is stay over the ship at that on

1607
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: that on that day, the current was not parallel to

1608
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,759
Speaker 1: the ship. It was actually about ten degrees off according

1609
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: to what I've heard. So if you stayed at the

1610
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 1: same point you entered right on the bow, stayed in

1611
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: that same exact point without moving a muscle, you would

1612
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: be blown off course enough that you probably would miss

1613
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: that line, because by my back of the envelope calculation,

1614
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: they would have missed it by about seventeen meters, which

1615
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: is just beyond the realm. Maybe they would have seen it,

1616
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 1: maybe not. But of course, at the same time, you

1617
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 1: know what to do. There's a huge ship underneath you.

1618
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 1: All you gotta do is kick your fins a little

1619
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: bit and get back over the ship the sent line

1620
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: of the ship, and boom, you're lined up for your

1621
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 1: exit line. So it seems like interrational. And again there's

1622
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: no way underwater. There's no way that Tina's somehow communicated

1623
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:12,520
Speaker 1: this through body language, your sign language. He didn't communicate

1624
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: that to game. That wasn't anxiety. That was all his own,

1625
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 1: entirely his own. Also, by the way that they were

1626
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: there is mentioned also that the people at the dive

1627
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: company actually talked about what to do and how to

1628
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: signal them if you want beyond the exit movie. In fairness, though,

1629
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 1: the people at the dive company, we're supposed to have

1630
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: done a test dive with Tina. Fairness, Yeah, I mean

1631
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, so maybe they said they told them, and

1632
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: and in fairness to the dive company, you can tell

1633
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: somebody what to do, but that for them to pay

1634
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: attention and register and retain that use a whole another matter. Yeah.

1635
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 1: Another thing that makes me think that maybe Gave was

1636
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:54,800
Speaker 1: in a state of panic is the part of the

1637
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: whole part. This is the part that truly doesn't make sense.

1638
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: It's what he's trying to chase Tina downward as she's

1639
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 1: sinking and he couldn't catch her, which makes utterly no

1640
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: sense to me or the experts I talked to. And

1641
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 1: again there was a whole question a well, was his

1642
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 1: bc D way over inflated? And well, if that was

1643
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 1: the case, if that was inhibiting his downward progress, then

1644
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 1: all he had to do was deflated He didn't apparently

1645
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: think to do it. Was what's his evidence to me

1646
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: that he wasn't thinking very clearly. Was that he was panicking,

1647
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, And and at that point he turned

1648
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: around and just left again evidencely scared because maybe he

1649
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 1: already figured out the Tina was already dead and figured

1650
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: there's no sense of losing my own life trying to

1651
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: rescue her. Much kind of along in the same lines

1652
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 1: as although at the same time, I'm asking myself, well,

1653
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: was that really rational? Because you have a whole tank

1654
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: of air, we got attack of air, and if he

1655
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: swim down a little farther grabb her hauler up, you know,

1656
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: really what's the risk there. But let's also add to that, right,

1657
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: the fact that he had already had that misfire with

1658
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:01,760
Speaker 1: his computer or computer computer, right, So he may have

1659
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: already been a little in a weird mindset of like, well,

1660
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 1: maybe this computer isn't a hundred accurate right now, right

1661
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: because I was having issues with it before. So maybe

1662
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: he's thinking, all right, I know, I definitely have enough

1663
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 1: to get on this you know, short little scuba trip.

1664
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: But maybe he's thinking, you know, he's already not thinking

1665
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 1: particularly clearly. He's probably panicking and thinking, oh my god. Also,

1666
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: what if my computer is telling me that I have

1667
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 1: a lot more air than I actually have. What if

1668
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: you know, something malfunctions, blah blah. He's already panicking, and

1669
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: then he's trying to get down and then he's like, oh,

1670
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: I've obviously used way more air than I should have

1671
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 1: and oh my gosh, my computer. You know, just a

1672
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 1: huge panic of I mean, I agree that rationally above

1673
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 1: ground with no one no emotional trauma of watching your

1674
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 1: wife die. I'm sorry, on on ground above water to

1675
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: us sitting in a dry room without having just watched

1676
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,720
Speaker 1: our wife die. You know, Yeah, of course he had

1677
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 1: air to get down there, and blah blah blah. But

1678
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: if he's panicking, he's having a panic attack, I think,

1679
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: not having not in his right mind, he it makes

1680
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 1: sense to just beat feed out of there. And uh,

1681
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: you know, and that's because you know, again, like you

1682
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: said to us, it looks it looks simplicity itself. He

1683
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: just swim down there, grabber hauled the surface. Alive or dead,

1684
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: at least you've got her. And he just turned and left,

1685
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the sign again, and and

1686
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 1: and again. From where he went, he could have gone

1687
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 1: straight up insteady he goes back to the bow against

1688
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 1: the current, taking more time. Um, you know, every decision

1689
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: was kind of the wrong one, A lot of them,

1690
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: A lot of them were not rational. I don't think

1691
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,640
Speaker 1: I think that he was. I think he was just panicking.

1692
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. Yeah, And I think he lost it.

1693
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's why his story doesn't quite make sense.

1694
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: It's because he's never wanted to fess up entirely to

1695
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 1: the fact that he just lost it. Well, here's a question.

1696
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:02,879
Speaker 1: If he had a pank, did he lose his scuba license?

1697
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: Not that I know. So if he had admitted that

1698
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: he was incompetent, caused the death of someone and you know,

1699
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 1: basically just and everything, would he have lost it? Probably? Right? Maybe,

1700
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure how at that point, how enthusiastic

1701
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 1: was about scuba anymore. Anyway, right, he might not have

1702
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: ever done scuba diving after that. And I gotta tell

1703
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 1: you that the whole thing of him saying I want

1704
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 1: a scuba dive and I want to go on boats,

1705
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 1: and you need to learn to do it with me

1706
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: as well, if you want to be with me. I

1707
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,679
Speaker 1: mean it again is it's it's weird to me because

1708
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,479
Speaker 1: he'd been diving for at this point ten years, uh

1709
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:42,759
Speaker 1: seven years, seven years, and he had only in seven

1710
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,719
Speaker 1: years logged fifty dives, and they were all like pool

1711
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 1: dives and little quarry dives, as if he was an

1712
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 1: avid diver, and this was going to always be his things,

1713
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 1: which is why I agree with Joe that it's so

1714
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 1: easy to see him freak out. Yeah, I agree with that.

1715
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it's to me, it's

1716
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 1: not that weird that he didn't go on. I mean,

1717
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: we don't know their financial situation. He probably couldn't afford.

1718
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,600
Speaker 1: He lived in Alabama, right, It's not like there are

1719
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: a lot of really great dive spots in Alabama, right,

1720
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:15,280
Speaker 1: as far as I know, I don't know. I'm sure

1721
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,600
Speaker 1: they we'll find out. Alabama is actually close to the

1722
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: close to the Gulf of Mexico, so there's good diving

1723
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: down there. I hear close. But you know, depending on

1724
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 1: where in the state you are, it's financial situation, right,

1725
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: you know. So it may have been that he thought,

1726
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: all right, well, we're going to go someplace tropical for

1727
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 1: our honeymoon. I've always you know, I've been scooping for

1728
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: ten years. This is my chance to really get a great,

1729
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: nice dive in and obviously I want you to do

1730
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 1: that with me because you're my wife and I love you.

1731
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess they were years old, so yeah, Financially,

1732
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 1: it's not as if they would be super well off. Okay,

1733
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: now I'll retract a little ahead of my school. I mean,

1734
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: you can be at fifty and not be financially well

1735
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 1: off enough. I mean, well, you know, there's no stage

1736
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 1: of life where you can definitively say that person is

1737
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: definitely gonna be able to afford to go scuba diving. Well,

1738
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly hurting for cash, but I gotta tell

1739
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 1: you it's just a matter of priorities. I mean, I

1740
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: could actually, if I actually I do, I could afford

1741
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 1: to travel halfway around the world and go scuba diving,

1742
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 1: not going to but you're also well there's that too, Yeah,

1743
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: but I just you know, no matter what the age,

1744
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 1: there's always something better to spend the money on, buying

1745
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 1: a house and starting family. Yeah exactly. But you know,

1746
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 1: but there there could have been other repercussions too. I mean,

1747
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 1: I he might have felt at least partially responsible if

1748
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 1: he felt like he had done something to contribute to

1749
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 1: her death. Well, I think he did I mean that

1750
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 1: that body viewing comments, that seems like, well, obviously, obviously,

1751
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 1: you know, yeah he did in one way or another.

1752
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: But from a legal point of view, it's one thing

1753
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:53,600
Speaker 1: to sort of say it wouldn't it be great to

1754
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 1: learn how to scuba dive, because that's sort of, you know,

1755
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: contributed to her death. But that's not something you can

1756
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 1: throw somebody in jail for. But there are the things

1757
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 1: that you could conceivably say, well, that's manslaughter, dude, you

1758
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 1: screwed up. You screwed up, and you can and you

1759
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: did this and this that contributed to her dying, and

1760
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: so you're gonna go to jail, so freaking out and stuff,

1761
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: and and you can see where he might finance his

1762
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 1: story a little bit to make himself look a little better,

1763
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: not only from the standpoint his self esteem, but also

1764
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 1: from a legal standpoint. I don't want to get arrested

1765
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:28,679
Speaker 1: or whatever. So uh, that's kind of my theory there

1766
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 1: is that it was an accident, an unfortunate thing, but

1767
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: his behavior probably it wasn't entirely the best. And I'm

1768
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: not saying I would have been any better in that

1769
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: situation myself, but that's what I think most likely happened. Yeah,

1770
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 1: most likely. All right, so that's that story. Uh, next

1771
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: week finding Nemo. Yeah alright. Let me do a little

1772
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 1: housekeeping before we go here. Uh, you're a scuba diver.

1773
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: And by the way, I just want to say this.

1774
01:27:58,120 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: I don't know if I said it before. This die

1775
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 1: does not look that daunting to me. You know, it

1776
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 1: looks actually fairly easy. You know, it doesn't have a

1777
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:07,679
Speaker 1: lot of fun. But I want to say if you're

1778
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:09,720
Speaker 1: if you're one of these scuba diving types and you

1779
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 1: want to take issue with that, if you'd like to

1780
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: issue a challenge to me to go to Australia and

1781
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:18,600
Speaker 1: do the dive, well I will accept that challenge absolutely.

1782
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: You throw down that gauntlet and your wallet and I

1783
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:25,640
Speaker 1: will go to Australia and dive that wreck. Absolutely. And

1784
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 1: let me give you the way that you want to

1785
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: get a hold of me through our our email, which

1786
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. What or

1787
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 1: what else have we got? We've got a website, you

1788
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 1: know what those things are, right, Thinking sideways podcast dot

1789
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: com where you can find our episodes. We have an

1790
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 1: episode list out there. You can download and listen to

1791
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:50,640
Speaker 1: our stuff on the website. We also have merch you

1792
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 1: can buy t shirts and mugs and all kinds of

1793
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 1: fun stuff. You can also find us on iTunes where

1794
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:57,759
Speaker 1: you can subscribe, you can read us, you can review

1795
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:01,320
Speaker 1: us a good review, please, we like those a lot better. Uh.

1796
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: There's streaming services. What do we got? Like Stitcher and

1797
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: god knows what else? There's yeah, all of them. Yeah,

1798
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: there's billions of them. Uh. And we're on social media,

1799
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: including Facebook. I don't know if you've heard of those

1800
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 1: guys are not apparently they're big. But we have a

1801
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: group and a page, so like the page, joined the group,

1802
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: and there's lots of fun stuff going on, lots of

1803
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 1: back and forth and commentary and stuff. It's a friendly group.

1804
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's no no flame wars. I

1805
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: think everybody's really nice. It's it's a great, great group.

1806
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:35,679
Speaker 1: And I like our I like our listeners are great people. Uh.

1807
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: And then we're on Twitter thinking sideways to lead that

1808
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: g out and there we are. Uh. And we have

1809
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 1: a subreddit, Thinking Sideways that's on Reddit. If you haven't

1810
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 1: heard of those guys, well, do a google. That's R E.

1811
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 1: D D I T. We have a sub reddit and

1812
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 1: so go check it out and that's about it. Tell

1813
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: him next week. Uh, any final thoughts? You guys know,

1814
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 1: I was gonna make a swimming joke, but no, I

1815
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,080
Speaker 1: got nothing. Yeah. I can't think of anything either, So

1816
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: alright to next week. Bye guys, Bye,