1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Diversion podcasts. I really thought to myself about the future, 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: and you know, I always came up with the same 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: conclusion that I always wanted to be famous. When I 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: was a little I always wanted to be a great 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: basketball player. When you work hard, when you achieve something, 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: you set a goal. My goal is to be a 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: great basketball player. To be famous. Then you can expect that. 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: You know, you can't be on TV all the time 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: and not expect people you know who you are and 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: coming to you actually for autograph. So I accepted. I accepted, 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: and I saw pluss if I was a little kid 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: and I looked up at somebody and I wanted an autograph. 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: I want to basket with an autograph, and they said no, 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: I'd be crushed. So when somebody comes into me I 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: asked for autograph, I'm not going I say short. In 16 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: the summer of the head coach and general manager of 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: the Philadelphia seventy sixers was a man named John Lucas. 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: Lucas had spent a star crossed fourteen years in the 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,919 Speaker 1: NBA as a quick, left handed and troubled point guard. 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: A drug and alcohol addiction had nearly ruined his career, 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: but he had turned his life around, and as a 22 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: coach he had a bit of a Pollyanna view of players. 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: He always saw the very very best in that always 24 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: believed they would reach their highest potential. He was a dreamer. 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: He just wasn't a particularly good NBA coach. During the season, 26 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: the Sixers won twenty four games under Lucas and lost 27 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: fifty eight. Here, they blew a twenty one lead in 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: a gut wrenching loss to chart Was Barkley and the 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns in front of their home crowd in Philly. 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: Final score the Sun setting a franchise record with their 31 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: ninth straight victory, and they do it in a most 32 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: improbable way. At John Lucas will ruminate about this one 33 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: Phoenix one oh eight s seven. One night in March, 34 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: John Lucas attended a Lower Merion High School playoff game 35 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: with his family at the Polesto. It wasn't that surprising 36 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: for Lucas to attend the game, after all, his daughter 37 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: Tarvia was a junior at Lower Marian. But just as 38 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: Lucas stepped into the arena, something did surprise him. He 39 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: ran into a guy who he had played against dozens 40 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: of times in the NBA, he ran into Joe Bryant. 41 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: John Lucas had heard of Kobe Bryant, but he didn't 42 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: know that Kobe was Joe's son. So after Lucas watched 43 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: Lower Marian win, after he watched Kobe scored twenty six 44 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: points in just twenty seven minutes of action, he got 45 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: an idea. Back then, it was common for pro and 46 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: college players to work out, scrimmage and play pickup games 47 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: together during the NBA off season, kind of like an 48 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: unofficial summer league. Lucas was so impressed with Kobe that 49 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: he thought the Sixers might be able to draft him 50 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: the following year. So he called up the Bryant's and 51 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: asked if Kobe wanted to work out with the team 52 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: that summer full court games at the field house at St. 53 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: Joseph's University and at nearby Episcopal Academy. Several of the 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: Sixers players would be there, including power forward Sharon Right 55 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: and the team's seven ft six inch center Shawn Bradley. 56 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Kobe of course said yes. Then Lucas called his old 57 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: backcourt mate and buddy from the University of Maryland, Mo Howard, 58 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: Joe's old friend from high school Lucas gave Howard an assignment. 59 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: It was his job to oversee these scrimmages and to 60 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: make sure that Kobe played in as many of them 61 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: as he wanted. Mo Howard still lives in Philadelphia and 62 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: he's still a big name in basketball around the city. 63 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: He gets asked about that summer of ninety five a lot, 64 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: but he never minds talking about it. He was there 65 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: each day to see the turning point in Kobe Bryant's 66 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: basketball career and in his life. Finally, describe what you 67 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: saw from Kobe during that summer when John Lucas had 68 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: you running those scrimmages at St. Joe's in Episcopal Wow. Wow, 69 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: I'm Mike seal Scope and from Diversion Podcasts, this is 70 00:04:52,680 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: I am Kobe st w state to create myself. Create yourself, 71 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: very nice. Create yourself got a pretty great minds. But 72 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: we ain't time. Episode six. The summer of Mo Howard 73 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: had played with and against Kobe in Sunday morning pickup 74 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: games at a y m c A in Center City, Philadelphia, 75 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: back when Kobe was just thirteen years old. He knew 76 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: how good the kid was, at least he thought he knew, 77 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: and he were playing those games and like he won 78 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: and held his own, but to play against the pros 79 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: at the level that he did was really surprised. In 80 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: two story, so we're sitting there, it's Maurice Chiefs, myself 81 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: and Harold Cats. Just for the record, Maurice Cheeks was 82 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame point guard who spent eleven of 83 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: his fifteen NBA seasons with the Sixers. In the summer, 84 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: he was one of their assistant coaches, and Harold Katz 85 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: was the team's owner and a total basketball junkie. He 86 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: would stay up late to watch NBA games then quiz 87 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: his executives and coaches about players around the league. And 88 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: Carol Kats is watching Guys scimmage and he says about Kobe, 89 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: where is he from? And Maurice Cheeks says a Laura Marian. 90 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: Harold Katt says to Maurice, well, I don't want to 91 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: know where he lives, but where is he from? And 92 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: Maurice says He's from Lower Merion High School and Harold 93 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: Cats looks at him with his look of surprise, saying huh. 94 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: And then Maurice goes on to tell him that he's 95 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: Joe Bryant's son, so even you know, the guy who 96 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: was the owner of the team was very, very surprised 97 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: and how skilled Kobe was. At that time. Kobe wasn't 98 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: the only Lower Marian player competing in those scrimmages. Emery Dabney, 99 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: a talented point guard from West Philadelphia who had played 100 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: summer ball with Kobe and the Aces, was transferring into 101 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: Lower Marian for his sophomore year. John Lucas had seen 102 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: him play and invited him to the workouts too. It 103 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: was crazy. I remember the first couple of days, I 104 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: was nervous. It was very surreal, to be honest, because 105 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: as a fifth year on myself and you're playing with 106 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: these guys at an NBA. It was surreal. But then 107 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: after the first couple of workouts, you're like, okay, like 108 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: I used to playing with these guys. And who were 109 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: some of the guys in the gym. Richard Dumas, Vernon Maxwell, 110 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: Jared Stockhouse, a guy who played in North Carolina named 111 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: Donna Williams. Some pretty good players, uh, some older NBA. 112 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: I remember Willie Burton, I don't never remember that name 113 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: played for the six was back in the day. It 114 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: was some really good players and Kobe right away. Didn't 115 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: care who they were, he didn't care what they had 116 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: done before. He was trying to test to see how 117 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: good he was. So he was going right at all 118 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: those guys. And that's how kind of the robbery between 119 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: him and dark Stackhouse kind of started. Ah, Yes, Jerry Stackhouse. 120 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: When you hear anyone talk about Kobe's workouts in the 121 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: summer of you hear about Jerry Stackhouse. He had been 122 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: a high school phenom himself just a few years earlier, 123 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: and he'd become a human highlighted names during his time 124 00:08:43,880 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: at North Carolina. He's He's Jaman, Slimming Crab, Jap, slip Little. 125 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: The Sixers had taken Stackhouse with a third overall pick 126 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: in NBA Draft. At North Carolina, he'd been Sports Illustrated 127 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: National Player of the Year and had taken the tar 128 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: Heels to the Final Four. He was supposed to be 129 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: the Sixer savior. Stackhouse was playing in those summer scrimmages 130 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: and pickup games too, and you would have thought he 131 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: would dominate them and Kobe, except their battles on the 132 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: court back then have taken on the aura of myth 133 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: and legend ever since. In a way that has always 134 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: put Stackhouse in Kobe shadow. I saw this. I watched 135 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: those scrimmages. I watched those workouts, and you know, there 136 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: were some days that Jerry would get the best of Kobe, 137 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: and there were some days that Kobe would get the 138 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: best of Jerry. But Kobe did it in a more 139 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: spectacular fashion, right. So I witnessed one day we were 140 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: scrimmaging out Episcopal Bowl and Kobe and Jerry were going 141 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: head to head with each other as they did, and 142 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: Maurice Cheeks and I was standing there watching, and if 143 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm mistaken, Jerry Stackhouse was the second pick that year. 144 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: He was a third pick. So Maurice Cheeks looks at 145 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: me and he says, if Jerry Stackhouse is number three, 146 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: Kobe has to be three. A Kobe's friend, Jeremy Treatment, 147 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: who was about to go from covering him to coaching him, 148 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: went to two of those scrimmages. Listened to his voice 149 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: as he tells me his impressions of Kobe from those games. 150 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: And he wasn't backing down anybody. He had a boldness 151 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: about him. The thing that was so called when Joe 152 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: Bryant called me and said, I don't even need to go. 153 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: Sean Bradley calls the house and says, I'll pick up. 154 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: At seven. They were picking him up. They wounded him 155 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: to come. He seemed a little young, but he also 156 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: seemed like it belonged. It just was like he's sixteen 157 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: and he's playing with twenty seven year old NBA players. 158 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: It was It was kind of crazy. But I was 159 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: not surprised that he held his own I was not 160 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: surprised that he gave from Stackhouse all he could handle. 161 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: Stackhouse did not take kindly to these comparisons to Code. 162 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: He still doesn't. He's now the head men's basketball coach 163 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt University, and when I reached out to him 164 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: and Vanderbilt Sports information office to see if he would 165 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: speak to me from my book about Kobe, he declined. 166 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: And he kind of has a point. By the time 167 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: the Sixers drafted him, he had already been compared to 168 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's mostly because both of them had gone to 169 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: North Carolina and were high flying acrobats when they had 170 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: the basketball in their hands and a chance to dunk it. 171 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: But Michael and Kobe were guards, straight up shooting guards. 172 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: Stackhouse wasn't Stackhouse had played power forward in high school 173 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: and at North Carolina. He had never played guard in 174 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: his life until the Sixers drafted him. He wasn't used 175 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: to chasing smaller, quicker players around screens or squaring up 176 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: for twenty ft jump shots. He and Kobe had different 177 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: sets of skills and were different players, and people thought 178 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: the teenager was better. It was a total no win 179 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: situation for Stackhouse. If he was better than Kobe, well 180 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: he should be. Kobe was just a high school kid. 181 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: And if Kobe out played him, what did that say 182 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: about the guy who was supposed to be the Sixers 183 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: franchise player. His frustration was growing with every scrimmage. Here's 184 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: Emery Dabney. Then at one point they Stackhouse started found 185 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: him hard and they almost got into it. They you know, 186 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: Stackhouse grabbed them and we had to kind of break them. 187 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: Those two up. He was relentless because, like I said, 188 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: for a guy in high school who's not even is 189 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: going at the number one overall pick, like going at 190 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: him relentlessly. It was kind of crazy. And but honestly, 191 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: Brendon Maxwell, I don't know if you remember les called 192 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: Mad Max. He he's the one that really instigated it 193 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: because I remembers meet him and Kovid in the same team. 194 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: I forget who the other two players were. But every 195 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: time he gave Covid a ball and Stackhouse was gardener, 196 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: he would just go kill him, kill him, like for 197 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,599 Speaker 1: the whole, the whole possession. And it was like no 198 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: one else would touch the ball, and Renna Maxwell come 199 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: down and give him the ball, tell him to kill him. 200 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: So after a while, you know, Stackhouse wasn't too happy 201 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: about him. No, Stackhouse wasn't happy. But Kobe had to 202 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: be elated. Here he was holding his own against NBA players, 203 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: and he was just turning seventeen that August, and often 204 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: he was more than holding his own. In fact, to 205 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: put it bluntly, Kobe was showing that he already surpassed 206 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: some of them when it came to the intangibles that 207 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: were necessary to succeed in the league. When I was 208 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: talking to Mo Howard about those games, he said something 209 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: about Kobe that has stuck in my memory ever since. 210 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: It captured perfectly the player Kobe was then and the 211 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: player he would become. What I saw was unique work. 212 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: Unlike any of the other pros and college players who 213 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: participated in those open runs. H he was the first 214 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: one there every day. He was the last one of 215 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: these every day, every day without fail. I just couldn't 216 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: believe that he was that highly skilled, like playing against 217 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: pro guys. He was so highly skilled and motivated that, 218 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, I was a little surprised. Kobe's workouts didn't 219 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: involve just best the ball either. He and Dabney would 220 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: run on the track at St. Joseph's University too, before 221 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: heading to the field House to play. A few days 222 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: that summer, the field House was closed, so the NBA 223 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: guys would be playing at the gym at Episcopal Academy, 224 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: which was right across the strungle track. Minds just August 225 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: and we would get in the car and when you 226 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: drive over to a pisco, you know, I'm probably not 227 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: even a two minute drive. It's outfter the workouts, you know. 228 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: I get in the car Kobe and it's uh ninety 229 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: degrees outside, and he pulls the windows up and he 230 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: turns the heat on, and I'm like, Kobe, like, what 231 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: are you doing? I might have a heart attack and 232 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: I can't what are you doing? He's like, I'm about 233 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: to go play in the stackhouse. I gotta stay warm. 234 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to cool down before before I play. 235 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, what do you I can't do this. 236 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: I have a heart attack. And he stops at the 237 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: light and he goes, you can get out, Kobe. Let 238 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: him crack the window a little. But I can't think 239 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: of a better metaphor for who Kobe Bryant was then 240 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: and where he thought, no, where he knew he was going. 241 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: If you're with me, if you believe in me, if 242 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: you're willing to sacrifice like I am, you can come 243 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: along for the ride. If you're not, you can get out. Hey. 244 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: This is Mike Selsky, host and writer of I Am Kobe. 245 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: This podcast project came out of my work on a 246 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: related book called The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit 247 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: of Immortality. If you want to explore other parts of 248 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: Kobe's story, check out The Rise. It's not just a 249 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: book version of the podcast. I dive deeper into some 250 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: of the topics covered in this series, and even some 251 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: that we don't cover at all. Kobe's upbringing, his family, 252 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: his identity, his effect on his friends and teammates, his 253 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: journey into the n b A, and his earliest days 254 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: with the Lakers. The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit 255 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: of Immortality is out now. Just head over to the 256 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: Rise of Kobe book dot Com and you can buy 257 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: it from any of your favorite retailers. That's the Rise 258 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: of Kobe book dot Com. Thanks. When Kobe wasn't running 259 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: full court with Jerry Stackhouse and the rest of those 260 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: guys and those uber intense pickup games, he was traveling 261 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: around the United States on his Amateur Athletic Union teams 262 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: better known as the a U Circuit. He was up 263 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: and down the East coast of Las Vegas, all over, 264 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: going to camps, playing in tournaments with other big time 265 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: college recruits. Of course, given his plans and goals, it 266 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: might not be right to call him a recruit. The 267 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: highlight of that summer of ninety five was in early 268 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: July in te Neck, New Jersey, at the prestigious A 269 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: b c D Camp, which was sponsored by Adidas and 270 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: sneaker mogul Sonny Vacar Picaro had founded A B c D. 271 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: In The camp gathered the highest ranked high school players 272 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: in the country in one place. It was considered the 273 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: marquee event of the summer in high school hoops. Greg 274 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: Downer and Mike Egan, Kobe's coaches at Lower Marian, went 275 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: up there to see him play. Here's Egan. He was 276 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: just phenomenal. There he was and were a lot of 277 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: the kids. And this is where his maturity really came 278 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: into play, where a lot of these guys were looking 279 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: at it as fun and show voting and who you know, 280 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: how many guys sent me? And he was there because 281 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: at that point he was considered a top five player 282 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: in the country. In Tim Thomas, Leicester are all Jeremain 283 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: Neal and sometimes you hollow it was you a little 284 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: higher than him. And Kobe went up there and never 285 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: said of this. Does we know he even up there 286 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: with a mission. He wants to come out of there 287 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: being called the number one player in the country. And 288 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: at the end of that week he was the consensus 289 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: not a one player in country. Kobe had scored ten 290 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: eighty out of a possible six on his s A 291 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: T S. He was a very good student. He had 292 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: grown particularly close to his tenth grade English teacher, Jeane Mastriano. 293 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: In fact, she became an intellectual mentor to him. The 294 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: two of them remained in touch throughout his life. Mastriano 295 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in her class delving into 296 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: the concept of the hero's journey. Her students watched Star 297 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: Wars and class, for example, to understand the symbolism behind 298 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: Luke Skywalker's path to becoming a Jedi, they read Joseph 299 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Campbell's famous book The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Mastriano 300 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: told me that Kobe loved it all. One of the 301 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: things that he really soaked up was the hero's journey, 302 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: which is something I talked about at the beginning of 303 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: the year, throughout the year. At the end of the year, 304 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: it kind of followed the arc of the whole year, 305 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: the whole idea that you're going into an unknown here 306 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: and you need to take risks. We all need to 307 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: take risks, and if you don't take risks, then you're 308 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: not going to happen experience. It's going to be exhilarating. 309 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: We need to scare yourself. Do you think he saw 310 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: himself on that kind of hero's journey. Absolutely. He believed 311 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: in his number one dream, which was that he was 312 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: going to realize his life as a basketball player, and 313 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: that he was going to go in that direction. He 314 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: was convinced he was going to do that. How could 315 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: he be so sure though, especially at such an early 316 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: stage of his life. Where did that confidence come from? 317 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: I think there's a clue in something Mastriano told me. 318 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: I asked her what Kobe was like in class, how 319 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: he carried himself, how he acted and behaved. You know, 320 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: the stereotype of the high school jock doesn't care much 321 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: about his grades, doesn't need to worry about his homework 322 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: because he's going to get a football scholarship or a 323 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: basketball scholarship, or a swimming scholarship. That wasn't Kobe. He 324 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: had this relentless curiosity, and he challenged Mastriano just like 325 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: she would challenge him, in a good way, not in 326 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: a bad way. He was confident that he could go 327 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: back and forth with her that because of his life 328 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: experiences and the path he was on, he already existed 329 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: on her level intellectually and professionally, and she in turn 330 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: appreciated that quality in him. He wasn't much of a talker, 331 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: but the energy that he exhumed was palpable. Since I 332 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: have when I looked back on him, somebody wouldn't hesitate 333 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: to say, why are we learning this? Not in a 334 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: terribly antagonistic way, but like, this is just not doing 335 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: a thing for me. I don't see where this is going. 336 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: Could it please justify? And I love that. I love 337 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: the kid who's edgy, who's argumentative. It's just such wonderful 338 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: than There was no question that Kobe could get into 339 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: any college he wanted, but it was becoming obvious to 340 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: everyone around him how his focus was narrowing to just 341 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: one thing, basketball, you know. And then here's Mikey when 342 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: he worked at things so much. His junior year, he 343 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: was a student. He was still trying to get his 344 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: grades up and his s A T s up and 345 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: make sure there was no issues with college, which there 346 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: would not have been anyway. But every day he got 347 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: better and every day he we saw something from him 348 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: that we'd be lying if we said we knew he 349 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: could be would be an vy a superstar as a junior. 350 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: But then between his junior and senior year, that's when 351 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: his game really elevated. And when he came back as 352 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: a senior, it was all basketball. And then we started 353 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: looking at each other and say, this kid's gonna be really, 354 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: really something. The expectations for Lower Marian's basketball team Kobe's 355 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: senior year were just about as high as the expectations 356 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: for its star player. Anything less than a district championship 357 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: or state championship or both would be considered a disappointment. 358 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: But in an early season test at Kobe's old stopping 359 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: grounds from the summer, the St. Joe's field House, the 360 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: Aces got stopped by Saint Anthony of Jersey City. St. 361 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: Anthony was one of the two or three best high 362 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: school teams in the country, maybe the best, and they 363 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: were coached by the great Bob Hurley, a member of 364 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: the Basketball Hall of Fame. This clip from CBS explains 365 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: both Curly's accolades and his dedications to the program. With 366 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: an unyielding determination and by relentlessly striving for perfection on 367 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: the floor, Bob Hurley has built the basketball program at St. 368 00:23:53,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: Anthony's High School into a perennial powerhouse, and we're getting 369 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: ready for the state tournament. We can't go down and 370 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: just run nothing. Flawa Marian was never really in the 371 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: game against St. Anthony. They lost by fifteen points, and 372 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: Kobe had twenty eight of those forty seven points. A 373 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: quarter century later, Curly still remembers that game and Kobe's 374 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: performance in it very well eight really, and he had 375 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: no he had no help tony other players. We were 376 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: able to cheat off them and uh, you know, help 377 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: against him. And then after the game, he come over 378 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: to me and asked if we could talk, and we 379 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: sat down and sat down on the bleachers at St. 380 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: Joe's and he talked about what things I think he 381 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: needed to do to become up at a player. And 382 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: I remember talking to him about how the first half 383 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: had ended with we had stolen the ball from him 384 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: and we scored to end half and I put us 385 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: up one and he kind of put his chin down 386 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: and kind of walked off the court. And the second 387 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: half sought it, and the first four minutes of the 388 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: second half he wasn't dominant like he could be. And 389 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: I talked to him about his reaction to that mistake 390 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: and how how important erasing that mistake would be with 391 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: the way he would play early in the second half 392 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: of the game. Totally understood, thank me so much for it. 393 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: And then you know, we farther ways, but you know, 394 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: he just was mature beyond his years. But we played 395 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: against unbelievable players over the years, and he's the best 396 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: player we ever played against. You know you're sek average 397 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: over thirty game where people got thirty against St. Anthony, say, 398 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: should have got a trophy. That's no minor compliment from 399 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: a coach like Bob Hurley, And it was pretty revealing 400 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: that Kobe would seize the opportunity to sit down with 401 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: her to pick his brain. Kobe didn't see Hurly as 402 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: an opposing coach. He saw him as a resource. It 403 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: was like Kobe was saying to himself, losing the St. 404 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Anthony hurts, but I can get better in the long 405 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: run because of it. An even bigger test for Kobe 406 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: and Lower Marion came after the St. Anthony Laws. The 407 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: last week of December, the team flew down to Myrtle Beach, 408 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: South Carolina for the Beach Ball Classic. Now usually when 409 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: you think of Myrtle Beach, you think of golf courses, 410 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: but the Beach Ball Classic was a major event in 411 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: high school basketball and eight team tournament that featured some 412 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: of the best players in America. One of them was 413 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: Lester Earl, a six ft eight jumping jack who ended 414 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: up playing at L s U and Kansas. Another was 415 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: Mike Bibby, a point guard who was the second pick 416 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: in the NBA draft in and ended up playing in 417 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: the league for fourteen years. Here's Scott County High School 418 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: coach Billie Hicks talking about the Beach Ball Classic in 419 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: two thousand four. Team, I'll tell you every time that 420 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: we're we get a chance to play here, we really 421 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: feel blessed because you know, there's a lot of great 422 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: tournaments in America highscrew tournaments, but you know, nothing comes 423 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: close to the Beach Ball But the biggest star at 424 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: the Classic wasn't Lester Earl or Mike Biddy. It was Kobe. 425 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: The Aces played three games in the tournament, and there 426 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: were so many people flocking to Kobe that it was 427 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: difficult for him to get to his family after each game. 428 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: A couple of times that I started just pulling them 429 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: back in the in the back room, in the locker room. 430 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: Start talking to him then, because I think it's unfair 431 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: for my family. Will wait. I saw all the autographs. 432 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: I think, I think that's unfair. But when I stopped before, 433 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: I started wising up and tell him the coming back 434 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: so I can talk to him there. I came by 435 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: the locker room and I just saw all these people 436 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: saying I'm like, oh right, you know, teenagers, teenage boys, 437 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: teenage girl. Oh man, it was guys, kind of crazy. 438 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: But the escort just gave me a seat, so you know, 439 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: you sit down as sign him if you want to, 440 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: or you don't have to sign him at all. So 441 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: show I said, now I have. I just said down 442 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: that it's an auto autographs what I was doing. Honest, 443 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: that's how many people about. He sounds like he's already 444 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: used to all this attention, like this is just par 445 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: for the course for him. Yes, of course people are 446 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: going to want my autograph. Well it's a little unfair, 447 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: but hey, that's the price of fame. It's one of 448 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: the things that always strikes me about listening to these 449 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: tapes of Kobe. He never seems overwhelmed by any of this, 450 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: the attention, the pressure, the expectations, none of it. It 451 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: was like this was a business trip, like this is 452 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: what he was supposed to be doing with his life 453 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: away from the convention center. Kobe stayed in his room 454 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: a lot on the trip, sleeping, resting, thinking. He went 455 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: out a few times at night with friends, but not 456 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: that much. I know that you're gonna have options like 457 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: that you either gonna go out, uh go swimming as 458 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: an example, UH go party and go play video games 459 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: and things like that. And for some people that may 460 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: be relaxing. I know Michael Joyd likes to play golf 461 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: for a game Magic miss as the music. I just 462 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: like to sleep. I feel that I played very well. 463 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: When I'm rested, I got my legs under me and 464 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: I can run all day. So I just relaxed, turned 465 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: the TV off and just swept in. But I enjoy thinking. Yeah, 466 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: I thinking about the game. I was thinking about the 467 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: moves I was gonna make. I was gonna tap the team. 468 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna come out shooting and come out passing type 469 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: moves I was gonna make. Can you see every game 470 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: seems different for me. One game I'll come out and 471 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: I feel like crossover move it was the best, and 472 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: I feel maybe it's to pull up jump shot and 473 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: fade away three. So I really got focused in it. 474 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: We tried to think and and say, well, how do 475 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: I feel now. I really thought about the game a lot, 476 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: and I've also also thought about the future. It was 477 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: no wonder so many people wanted Kobe's autograph and Laura 478 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 1: Marion's first game at the Beach Ball Classic, a victory 479 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: over a school from Ohio. He scored forty three points. 480 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: It was a spectacular performance and Kobe was on his 481 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: way to another one in the Aces. Next game, they 482 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: were rolling against Jenks High School from Oklahoma, and Kobe 483 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: had thirty one points when he made one bad decision 484 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: and everything about the game and lower Marian's season changed. 485 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: So I think we're on like ten twelve and he 486 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: just growed in one against four and ah, he just 487 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: he made a rare, really bad decision and guy jowing off, 488 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: they drew the offensive foul, and he sat right next 489 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: to me on the bench. Game went into overtime. We 490 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: might have lost sixteen the two in the overtime. I 491 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what I think he was seventeen the two. 492 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: I was close watching his teammates melt down in overtime. 493 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: Kobe kept muttering the same phrase over and over again, 494 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: just no goddamn independence, no goddamn independency to skip. Mike 495 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: Egan described Kobe's reaction to the lowest It was after 496 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: that game, one of the few times I saw Kobe 497 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: really really lose his temper um. Where we sat in 498 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: the locker room, and I said something again, guys, you 499 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: you have to get better. You're not as good as 500 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: you think you are. And the other coach is all. 501 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: He says some more things, and Greg said, does anyone 502 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: on the team have anything to say? And Kobe absolutely 503 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: went off, screaming, yelling, you can't back down. He used 504 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: foul language. He kept saying, you can't back down, you 505 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: can't back down. You can't at him back down. Later 506 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: that night, Greg Downer gathered the entire team in his 507 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: hotel room and delivered a speech calling out each of 508 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: the players, including Kobe. It sounds weird what could he 509 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: possibly have complained about with respect to Kobe, But according 510 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: to Treatment, he found something. You gotta understand the pressure 511 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: of your teammates are feeling to playing with you, and 512 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: you gotta bring the best out of them, and you 513 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: gotta trust in them too. This to me, is an 514 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: interesting moment in Kobe's development. All his life when it 515 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: comes to basketball, the person he has listened to most 516 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: is his father. Joe has been the biggest influence on him. 517 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: But now out Greg Downer is challenging him in a 518 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: way he's never been challenged before. Downer isn't saying Kobe, 519 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: you have to make yourself better. He's saying, Kobe, you 520 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,239 Speaker 1: have to make your teammates better. As we know from 521 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: the rest of Kobe's career, that wasn't necessarily the easiest 522 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: thing for him to do, But Downer is telling him, 523 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: we won't win if you don't do it. The approach 524 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: worked right away. Inspired by downer speech, the Aces went 525 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: out and won their third and final game in the tournament. 526 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: Kobe scored forty three points in that one, took the 527 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: Dunk Contest capped the Beach Ball Classic. It was the 528 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: last event and Kobe desperately wanted to participate. There was 529 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: one problem, though. Sometime during the tournament, he had injured 530 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: his right wrist. It hadn't hurt badly enough that he 531 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: couldn't play in the games, but much of his arm 532 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: was wrapped in a big white bandage, like his arm 533 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: belonged to a mummy. Tell me about the Dunk Contest, Well, 534 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of theories, conspiracy theories on white Kobe's 535 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: risk was hurting them. Greg Simples to this day was 536 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: from signing autographs. I thought he got hurt. I can't remember. 537 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: It was probably a commodation. Lester Earl was going to 538 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: be Kobe's biggest rival in the dunk contest. If Kobe 539 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: could actually compete Shariah and Shaya, Kobe's sisters didn't want 540 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: him to. They thought it was too risky. And I 541 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: just remember sisters founding the door and I'm leading with Kobe, 542 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: you're not dunking, You're not dunk here, and I'm like, hope, 543 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: you don't need to do this. I remember saying like 544 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: it's like I got this. What are you're kidding? Because 545 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm dunking And we've seen him dunk in a game, 546 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: We've seen him dunk into practice, but we've never like 547 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: seen him talk. No, no, Greg and no, nobody had 548 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: seen this contest starts this Lester Earls doing ship that 549 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: I've never seen from NBA players, and Kobe matches leading 550 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: that the harder Lester all makes something because he was 551 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: going first, then Kobe would do. For his last dunk, 552 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: Earl jumped over a ball RADI. Each of the judges 553 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,479 Speaker 1: gave him a perfect tent. Technically, the best Kobe could 554 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: do was tiring. No matter how good his final dunk 555 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: was didn't matter. He asked three of his lower Marian 556 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: teammates to stay in the lane just in front of 557 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: the basket and duck their heads. And I remember looking 558 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: at his sister's faces, like don't do it, don't do it, 559 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: and he just jumped right over him dunk and he went. 560 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: So yeah. Technically the contest was a tie, but everyone 561 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: there in the Myrtle Beach Convention Center that night knew 562 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: who had really want. I'm pretty sure he saw me. 563 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: He winked. I mean that was just magic. Like God, 564 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: this guy just can live up the hype on anything. 565 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: It's like like he was hurt, he had no business 566 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: dunk in, and he just goes and has a performance 567 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: at lifetime. And that's why when I when I leave 568 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: the very next year, when he entered in the in 569 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: the dunk conscience is a rookie, NBA said, you've got this. 570 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: I didn't even need to watch. I knew who's gonna in. 571 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 1: As Jeremy and I sat by the bay on Long 572 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: Beach Island and talked about Kobe. Almost twenty five years later, 573 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: a few hundred yards away, at a house two doors down, 574 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: three kids were playing in a small swimming pool. You 575 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: probably heard their voices in the background while Jeremy was talking. 576 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: They were playing right when we were talking about Kobe 577 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: and Myrtle Beach, Kobe with the NBA plans, Kobe flying 578 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: over his teammates despite a sore wrist to throw down 579 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: an incredible dunk. Those voices were a nice reminder of 580 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: the person Jeremy and I were talking about. We were 581 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: talking about Kobe Bryant before he had played his first 582 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: game with the Lakers, before he had even met Shaquille 583 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 1: O'Neil or Phil Jackson or Pau Gasol, before he'd won 584 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: five NBA championships and been a league MVP, before the 585 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: battles and controversies with Shack and Phil, before he had 586 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: become a husband and a father, before Eagle Colorado, before 587 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: he had even accomplished everything he was going to accomplish 588 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: in high school. We were talking about Kobe Bryant when 589 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: he was just seventeen years old. We were talking about 590 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: a kid. In the next episode, I'm going to tell 591 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: you the story of how that kid pulled off one 592 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: of his greatest feats as a high school basketball star. 593 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: I saw it a message, so we be a championship day. 594 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: How could player like this got stepping up with other bands. 595 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: We knew that the is our time every week game 596 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: you stepped up on the quarter That's next week on 597 00:37:46,560 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: I Am Code. I Am Kobe is a production of 598 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: The Version Podcasts, an association with I Heart Radio. This 599 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: season is written and hosted by me Mike Sealskier. It's 600 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Story 601 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman, Editing, 602 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: mixing and sound design by Mark Francis. Stephen Tompkins is 603 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: our production assistant. Our theme music is Create Yourself by 604 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find create Yourself wherever you 605 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,439 Speaker 1: stream music. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freesan Sinc. 606 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Mark Francis and Scott Waxman. Join the 607 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: conversation about I Am Kobe on social media on Twitter 608 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: and Instagram. It's at Diversion Pods thanks to Oran Rosenbaum, 609 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: Susan Cannavan and Jeremy Treatment. The brisby Flo the Son 610 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,320 Speaker 1: and they don't want to stand when I say the 611 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: blinds fall, and never clock you out even when my 612 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: work is done. If they're trying to block me. I 613 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: might hurt someone through the blood, sweat and tends. We perseveit, 614 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: stay tilling it, let it keep the horses, and then 615 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: if they don't believe in themselves, gave a vert to 616 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: find now the tampons heads. So I'm telling them, ask 617 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: my a, this the reason why my work so damn 618 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: different to the negatives. I can't listen see me at 619 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: the time, you can't listen for where I'm anna mote 620 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: to play like cashes see I pay my dudes because 621 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: taxes gotta work that they can grind ahead of his time. 622 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna saying that they made you. Don't tell 623 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: them you create yourself the best Finn watch us, but 624 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: by that time you gotta sneak clock, then break clock, 625 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: break we create ourselves. Watch me quack, watch create myself. 626 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: SAI signs up and create yourself. Stay nice, go hard, 627 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: create yourself. You gotta learn from the great minds. So 628 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: we ain't lying to tell them next get any time. 629 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,839 Speaker 1: This talent wasn't given. It was made. If future any 630 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: time I can change better tell them that I made it. 631 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: Back home, as I walked through the hearts of the fame, 632 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: I came from the Valley of the Shadow with death 633 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: waiting for us. Spoons, don't hold your breath, sat Town, 634 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: sat Train. But I did it with less. I know 635 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: one at the beach, so there's nothing to guess. Yeah, 636 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: there's nothing to guess. It's our times. Tell them we 637 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: up next. We don't got any regrets. I did it 638 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: with my soul hands and we never forget as my an. 639 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: This the reason why my work so damn different to 640 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: the negatives. I can't listen see me at the time. 641 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: You can't listen for where red build, reach shape, give 642 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: me your eye. You got to risk take do it now. 643 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: When I'm saying why waves, I was saying that they 644 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: made You'll tell them you create yourself the best you 645 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: finn watch us, but it's bad that time. You gotta 646 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: stay clock then break clock break. We create ourselves. I 647 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: sweep quest right, sweeping to create myself. Exacts like that, 648 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: sim self, create yourself, say nice and nain, go on, 649 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: create yourself. You gotta learn from the great minds. But 650 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: we ain't lying telling this game time Ye Diversion Podcasts