WEBVTT - What the Tech? w/ Jonathan Strickland in Doha 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.840 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of iHeart Podcasts and Kaleidoscope. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:06.680 This week, we're taking you on the road for a 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.360 special episode recorded in Doha, Cutter. Now, before you start 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:12.400 imagining sand. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:16.560 Dunes and pure blue coastlines, I should describe my surroundings. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.360 I'm currently sitting in a makeshift studio in a massive 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.000 airplane hangar like conference center called the Doha Exhibition and 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.480 Convention Center, So if this episode sounds a little bit. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:29.480 Different, you'll know why. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.560 For the last couple of days, I've been attending Web 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.239 Summit Cutter, an international conference where investors and entrepreneurs and 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:37.280 thought leaders. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.560 Gather from around the world to talk about the future 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:40.280 of technology. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.120 Our friends at iHeart are the official podcast partner's Web Summit, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.680 which means that I'm here and so is a very 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.600 familiar figure, Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.960 Well, hello, I'm so pleased to be a guest on 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.720 this historic, amazing podcast. I've heard so much about. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.760 It, Jonathan, Welcome back to tech Stuff. How does it 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.480 feel to be on the other side of the table. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:07.119 I'll be honest, it feels odd, but I'm so pleased 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.960 to be able to be a part of this. I 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.400 was been joking all week about you know, just when 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.200 I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:17.240 Absolutely. Well, I'm very pleased to see you. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.319 It's been almost seven years, I think since we saw 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.520 each other in person, So who knew the next time 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.520 would be in Doha? 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.399 And yeah, here I am here we are. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.240 Based on the listener emails I've been receiving, I think 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.360 the listeners are going to be very, very very happy 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:30.240 to hear your voice today. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:31.199 You're already missed. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.920 Well just for you guys, Hey there, welcome to tech stuff. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.160 There you go, what the tech? The tech? 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.200 So nice have you vation? And I hope, I hope 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.160 this will be the first of many visits. Absolutely, I'm 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.400 not just in Doha. Yes, I would love to do 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.120 this on East time. So there've been some fascinating speakers 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.920 already at the conference, and I wanted to talk to you, 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.040 Jonathan today about some of what I've heard, hoping that 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.280 you can contextualize it kind of from a bird's eye 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.920 view of having covered technology as a journalist for two 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.240 decades sure and attended a bunch of these conferences. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:09.560 Yeah, conferences in the tech world in general play an 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.680 interesting role. So I've been to lots of different kinds. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.079 I've been to trade shows like CEES or E three, 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.760 I've been to ones that have been held by specific 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.520 companies such as Intel or IBM and the web Sumit 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.680 of course is more of a general tech with Internet 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:30.840 focus on it, and there have been some pretty phenomenal speakers. Actually, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:32.080 they've really impressed me. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.720 And when you come to these types of events, like 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.120 what do you look out for, both in terms of 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.400 kind of getting a peek around the corner to what 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.760 may be coming in the world of tech, but also 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.280 in terms of applying some kind of critical lens to 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:45.440 what you're hearing. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.600 That is an excellent question. So let's take CES for example. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.680 Everyone is looking for the quirky thing that is a 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.359 standout from the standard stuff you would run into. So 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.040 an example would be from a couple of years ago, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.959 the Little Rabbit AI, you know, pocket sized computer device, 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.600 which ended up not doing very well when it finally 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.280 came out. That's often the case where something that's quirky 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.560 gets your attention because it's different, but it turns out 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.160 it's not really practical or maybe it doesn't work as 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.280 well as was presented. So that's one thing you have 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.240 to look out for is yes, it's exciting and that 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:22.760 it's different, but at the same time you have to 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.480 ask the question, Okay, does this actually solve a problem. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.400 One of the speakers we had yesterday actually talked about 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.640 this about how innovation for innovation's sake is a fool's 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.480 errand and that really innovation needs to be applied to 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.560 looking at real world problems, not inventing one. So that's 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.480 one thing, But I'd say another is you look to 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.080 see what people are talking about, what they're excited about, 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.120 and how they're talking about it, so that you can 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.680 kind of get a feel for what is going to 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.080 be the next push, and keep in mind that not 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.600 all those pushes are going to be successes. So as 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.280 an examp back in two thousand and eight when I 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.360 went to my first CEES, the big push back then 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.880 was from companies like Panasonic and Sony, where it was 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.240 all about three D television. Yeah, now, you and I 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.920 know that three D television never really took off. People 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.000 balked at the idea of having glasses that they had 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.880 to wear at home, and the expense and the lack 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.000 of content. All of these things contributed to the failure 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.400 of that technology. So when you're being exposed to these 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.839 new ideas and people are really excited about them, you 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.400 have to temper that a little bit with the reminder 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.080 that not everything that's being talked about is going to manifest, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:38.960 or if it does, it won't manifest in the way 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.960 we anticipate. But if you do that and you proceed 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.080 with a kind of cautious optimism, I think great things 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:47.839 can be achieved. 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:49.840 Yeah, with that in mind, I mean, there are a 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.760 bunch of kind of smaller booths where people are presenting 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.919 on the floor, largely on laptops. I guess it's like 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.240 AI applications, but then as a main stage where there's 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.320 been some really interesting speakers. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:02.839 So I've into three talks so far. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.040 I kind of want to talk about each of them 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.440 briefly to get your view of how they exist in 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.359 the context of the history of technology. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:10.640 Sure. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 The first one was about the global chip race and 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.400 the continuing ways from deep seeg the second was about 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.560 the augmented reality presence in future, and the third was 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.000 AI and journalism. A fun time, a fun top, especially 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.840 for US journalists to come of technology. 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:28.919 Yeah, especially for those of us who worked for a 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.400 company that famously eliminated its editorial board in order to 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:34.320 replace it with AI. 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:35.880 Wait wait which company? 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.839 How stuff Works? Really? Yeah, back in twenty twenty three. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.239 People have heard me talk about this on the show before, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.760 but if you're new here, I worked for HowStuffWorks dot 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.000 com and I was a writer there, and in twenty 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.440 twenty three the company decided to stop working with freelance writers. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.680 They had a freelance writing crew, and then they had 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.120 an editorial crew in house, and the idea was that 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.040 they were going to go with AI general rated articles 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.000 from that point forward. The editors would have to do 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.719 a full edit pass to make sure that everything was 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.080 accurate and correct, and then correct anything that wasn't right, 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.120 and as you know, generative AI can sometimes confabulate and 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.599 make things up. The editors protested, and then they were eliminated, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.280 and everyone I knew who worked at how Stuff Works 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:20.719 was let go. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:21.400 Wow. 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.880 Yeah, So I say this not so people will take 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.680 up torches and pitchforks and yell or anything, but rather 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.760 to explain that I am very much aware that I 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.040 have a very strong bias here, like I cannot be objective, 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:36.600 is what I'm trying to get. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.680 At I mean, I think if you work as a 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.960 journalist and you know you're constantly hearing about the idea 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.440 of being replaced by AI, it h it's not the 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.520 most appealing seat to sit in. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:47.120 This for sure. 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.040 And we've been through similar shifts before, like the pivot 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.880 to video being the famous one, right, we saw editorial 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.000 departments decimated because the idea was that the written word 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.480 was no longer the way to deliver and it was 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.520 going to be video only. But it didn't last very long, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.680 and then by that time you had all these journalists 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.560 who were out of work. So obviously, as journalists, we 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.280 have a sensitivity to these things. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.560 So we'll come back to that, but let's start with chips. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.040 The talk I went to yesterday was from Andrew Feldman, 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.040 who is the CEO and co founder of Cerebras, which 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.800 is an AI chip manufacturer that has big ambitions to 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.760 take on in video. They manufacture the world's largest AI 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.720 chips and they're hoping to IPO in the US this 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.080 year to add fuel to their ambition to kind of 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.120 take on in video, and the company recently started offering 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.320 deep Seek running on its servers house in the US. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.800 Deep Seak obviously being the Chinese AI model company that 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.360 managed to create this high performing reasoning model despite US 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.120 export controls on in Nvidia's most advanced chips, and the 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.560 CEO of Feldman talked about being quote crushed by demand 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.120 ever since offering deep seak on these servers. But first 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.560 of all, let's take a couple of steps back, because 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:01.960 I think last year you did a great episode on 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.720 tech Stuff with the title what are AI chips? And 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.640 I think that a brief refresher while the world talks 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.200 about it would actually be super helpful. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:15.440 Oh. Absolutely so. If you think about processors in general, 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.600 if we're talking about your classic processors for computers, you 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.000 really have three major types at this point. You have CPUs, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:28.400 the central processing unit that's the BOG standard basic processor. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:35.360 Typically they're very good at performing high speed arithmetic operations 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.000 in sequence, right. And then you have GPUs or graphics 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.040 processing units. These we associate with things like gamers, like 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.160 if you're a real gamer, you got yourself a killer GPU. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.400 These are really good at parallel processing, where they can 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:54.360 take multiple threads of operations and run processing on them simultaneously, 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.000 which can sometimes depending on the type of computer problem 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:03.960 work faster than a CPU could for specific types of processes. NPUs, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.320 or neural processing units, are the new hotness, and they're 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.400 kind of like GPUs, but on steroids. They're even more 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.880 about parallel processing. They're optimized to run the types of 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:20.160 processes that your typical AI operations require these days. So 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.320 the laptop I have in front of me right now 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.000 has an NPU in it. So there's a neural processing 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.720 unit in my little laptop I've got that will run 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.160 those kind of operations natively on the computer that don't 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.400 require you to have a cloud connection, so that you're 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.080 not shipping all your data off to the cloud to 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.520 get processed and then sent back to you once it's done. Obviously, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.520 that brings up questions of privacy and security. So one 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.599 of the big attractive features of having NPUs is you 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.679 can run those processes natively on your own devices and 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.600 not have to depend upon some third party being able 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.640 to access the information, especially in a world where we 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.079 worry about the information being used to train future model 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:00.520 of AI. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.120 Had you come across this company before. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:08.320 Cerebras only in Greek mythology, where the three headed hound 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.600 of Hades is guarding the Gates. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:10.679 No. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.079 Actually, I have heard of it before, but I had 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.080 not really looked into it. One of the downfalls of 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.240 my era of tech stuff, and I often said this, 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.200 is that being in the United States and being an 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:28.679 American meant that it had frequently a very strong American perspective, 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.440 and it meant that companies that were operating outside of 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:37.320 America often got less focus on my show. So one 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.440 of the things that I think is cool about the 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.000 Web Summit is I'm encountering companies that maybe I've heard 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:44.960 the name, but I really didn't know much about, and 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.800 I'm starting to learn a lot more about them and 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.480 have a greater appreciation for them. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.160 It was interesting that kind of deep seek was such 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.920 a big part of this talk, I mean not surprising. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.000 When did this narrative of like chip Wars or the 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.600 chip race start to kind of you know, Chris to 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.319 your when is when you were hosting takes stuff. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.280 So a few years back in video was starting to 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:11.400 get incredibly popular, not through the AI world, but because 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:17.840 of cryptocurrency. Because for cryptocurrencies like ethereum, you would still 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:22.360 use parallel processing in order to attempt to mine a 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.040 block first and get that reward for things like bitcoin. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.520 That value had gone so high that you were looking 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.360 at purpose built chips for that that we had gone 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.520 beyond GPUs. But in Video was riding high because of that, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.840 and it meant the gamers were really upset because the 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.679 chips themselves were in very short supply and often where 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.400 you would find them in the aftermarket marked up to 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.360 ridiculous prices, and they're already quite expensive. So in Video 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.679 was already in the news then and their stock price 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.000 was soaring already because of the popularity of the chips. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.320 Once the AI industry started to really take off toward 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.200 the end of twenty twenty two, that's when in Vidia 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:08.640 really flourished, and in an incredibly savvy move, they began 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.959 to reposition themselves as a company that made AI chips 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.560 and not just the GPU company. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.400 Right, they sort of forced themselves into being considered a 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.720 national security or a kind of critical natural company. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.839 Yeah, like they like they it was them or no one, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.440 it was kind of the view. And so that's when 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.120 in Nvidia went from being really a pretty powerful company 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.559 to like in the top three gets often battling in 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.240 the top three spaces for most valuable company in the world. 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.200 Because of this chip race or chip wars narrative that 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.120 they were able to both profit from it also drive. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.240 But also I mean it's true, right, I mean that yeah, 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:49.080 has been true. 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:49.640 Yeah, yeah. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:50.680 What happened next? 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.199 Yeah, it's it's not boasting if you can back it up, right, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:58.120 And you certainly could argue that there was exploitation going on, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.000 like they were exploiting the the narrative, and in some 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.280 part I'm sure that's true because as I'm certain you 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:09.720 have noticed the craze around AI, there's a nugget of 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.120 truthfulness at the center, but there's a lot of hype 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:13.679 around it. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.439 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it was interesting presentation yesterday. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.319 I mean, I would say taking on in video is 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.119 a lofty goal, absolutely point. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.840 But we've seen that happen before too, right, Like if 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:27.120 you go. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.040 Back, I guess the way Vidio disrupted Intel, which is 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:29.480 on the floor. 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.000 That's exactly what I was going to say, Like if 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.200 you if you go back to the nineties, you could 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.120 ask someone like do you think n video is going 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.760 to overtake Intel? And you'd be left all the building. Yeah, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.439 so there is precedence. 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:41.760 What did you I mean, you were out of the 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.560 chair when when deep Seak happened, that was like my 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.280 second week. Yeah, there's a text down host and I 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.440 was like, oh my goodness, this is a this is 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.600 for me. I think probably the biggest text story I've 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.959 seen since the chetchipt released in November twenty twenty two. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.760 I mean it just the reaction from the world, from 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.640 the market, like everyone wants to know what's going on, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.880 But what did you think in the moment, and how 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:06.160 have you digested it since then? 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:11.319 So I had two very strong reactions when the deep 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:18.880 seek information started to become mainstream news. One was how 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:23.400 interesting because we've just been through a year of the 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.880 biggest fuss ever being made over TikTok, and here we 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:32.720 have an artificial intelligence system from China where the perceived 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.680 thread of TikTok is you could argue minuscule compared to 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:43.680 an AI company that is completely dependent upon devouring as 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.240 much information as possible and then making use of it, 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.360 Like that should be the big national security concern. If 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.840 in fact that's the real reason why you're concerned about TikTok, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.520 we could go into a crazy conversation about whether or 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.160 not that's true. And I'm not going to do that here. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.040 But the second, especially because the TikTok booths is right 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:02.360 next to it. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.440 Well, listen, every time I go by, I give reverence 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.880 and I floss a little bit. But no, the the 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.760 other reaction I had was that, golly, people have really 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:20.480 been waiting for a challenger to chat GPT. And I 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.480 think that tells you that as excited as people are 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:28.040 about Chad GPT and open ai in general, the need 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.560 for there to be competition and for perhaps there to 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.320 be a check on open AI's otherwise dominance in the 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.000 space is one that a lot of people were feeling, 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.680 even if they weren't able to articulate it. 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:40.360 Yeah, I think. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.000 I mean that the point that the surrebrass guy was 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.960 making yesterday was that there they run these you know, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.320 servers with their with their chips that run the open 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.360 source version of deep Seek's model, but in the US, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.160 so that la is some of the he was basically, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.160 he said explicitly like, don't use the deep seak product 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.680 like you. I mean, that's that's kind of interesting. I 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.920 think the second point you make about people wanting a 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.240 challenger to open ai is very true. I mean, emotionally, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.000 like nobody likes, you know, one big bully in the playground, right, 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.640 But I think when you're in a place like Doha, 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.080 you also understand how the idea of a competing ecosystem 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.200 of different AI models and maybe a cheaper way to 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.800 use AI is an incredibly attractive thing in a world 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.200 where you know, the concept of American hegemony is is 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.200 fast receding and people want to know what's coming next. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.360 So this this tech element of geopolitics or something which 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:37.280 is super fascinating. 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.680 Yeah, and again that's something that that's probably the most 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.480 valuable takeaway I'm going to have from this I say 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.640 that it's only the second day, but the most take 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.520 a powerful takeaway I'm going to have on this trip 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.880 is that opening of my perspective. 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.440 Coming up, Jonathan Strickland and I dig into the future 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:57.920 of augmented reality. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:16:59.000 Stay with us. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:07.760 So there's a lot to say about chips, but but 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.600 I wanted to move on to another technology that you've 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.159 covered closely over the years, augmented reality. I also went 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.600 to a talk given by a gentleman called Keyppan of 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:22.320 snap and he came out wearing these very futuristic RoboCop 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.320 like ar Snapchat glasses, and his view of the audience 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.879 was supposed to be broadcast on the screens behind him. Unfortunately, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.879 the WIFEI didn't want, so poor guy came out wearing 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.720 these you know, spectacles and then. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.920 No, no first person's view. Oh that hurts. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.560 I know when you especially when you're giving it. I mean, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:45.399 you're like a thousand. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.520 People in the audience and and you've got your big 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.480 razzle dazzle opening moment doesn't work. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.119 I don't know about you, os, but I get I 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:57.760 get secondhand embarrassment really easily. How ridiculous did the glasses look? 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.800 I mean they looked. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.200 There was a there was a famous Greek shipping billionaire 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.640 in the sixties called Aristotle Nassis who married Jackie Kennedy. Yeah, 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.160 and he wore these great big sunglasses that come about 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.919 half his face. These look literally like they'd been pulled 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.880 off Aristotle Aristotle and assets his face. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.840 I mean, I was at Cees the year that Lady 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.280 Gaga came out and promoted her polaroid glasses, and I'm like, okay. 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:31.000 I've we've seen big, big, big glasses, but anyway, keep 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.800 handed a valiant job. And I was thinking, probably, you know, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.680 as you are also feel quite a little empathy and 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.720 thinking in his head, you know, his whole mind is screaming, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:39.040 this is. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.200 A failure, like blah blah. 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.040 But he had to just keep going, soldiering on, and 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.000 to be fair, he did and actually it was a 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.520 good talk. He kind of broke down the three phases 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.200 of augmented reality at Snapchat. Phase one was the phone 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.200 capturing the face and the computer vision basically knowing. 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.560 Those eyes, that's the nose, that's the mouth when you want. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.040 A puke rain, but that's where it should come from. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.840 The second phase was the computer vision understanding the human 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.560 bodies and feet, legs, so that you could basically put 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.240 gloves on, you could wear a costume where you would 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:17.760 know what your arms, it. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.480 Could map properly to the right location on the body exactly. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.040 And then phase three is basically capturing the world. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.119 So these spectacles that are kind of looking out and 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.600 I keep calling spectacles because that's what the product is called. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.240 They're called spectacles. They don't normally say spectacles. I normally 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.280 say glasses, right, just FYI. But basically, you know, the 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.680 big leap forward is that rather than just understanding the 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:41.840 human body, which is hard enough, This actually understands the 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.639 whole world around you in terms of being able to 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.760 interpret what objects are, knowing what a surface is, knowing 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.840 how far away things are, so that you can basically 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.400 create a virtual overlay on the physical world. And one 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.520 of the really cool demos was actually somebody wearing these 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:01.240 glasses and looking at a bunch of ingredients, and then 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.160 the glasses sent the picture of the food in real 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.680 time to the cloud, which bat back at JENNYI suggested 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:08.800 recipe cool. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:09.840 Yeah, which is fun. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.359 I mean it's not I can't imagine it's going to 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.120 be a huge consumer use case, but it's fun. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.800 It's making me think of I don't know if you 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.000 remember this, but Google had Google Chef for a while 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.280 where you could do something similar. But obviously you're typing 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.840 the things. It could not, you know, do image processing 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.600 and do this, but you could type in the things 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.119 you had and it would suggest different recipes for you. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.040