1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: This is the business of sports where in the situation 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, pandemic here 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: has really accelerated the investments that we've been advocating for 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: for years. Almost everyone out there is hoping that there's 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: some kind of return to normal by August September. In 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: depth conversations with the leaders in the sports industry, who 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: wants to be the sacrificial lambs that shows up at 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: the first big major sporting events? Were part of something 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: much bigger than the sport right now and the health 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: and pasty of our stakeholders are both more important every moment. 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: I think we're all from business respective thinking about the 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: impact that the virus is having on across the country. 13 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm Jason 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: Kelly and I'm Michaelynn and we're here Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays. 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: Who explore the big money issues in the world of sports. 16 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: Talked to some of the biggest players in the industry. 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm so excited today for us to catch up with 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: Artie Kapoor. I've known her for a number of years. 19 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: She's now an investment banker at Goldman Sachs looking after 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: consumer businesses thickly in the areas of fitness and wellness. Already, 21 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: First of all, how are you How are you doing 22 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: amid this upside down world we're living in? Hey, Jason, 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me today. I'm excited to 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: chat about what has certainly been a very dynamic fitness industry. Um, 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: all hands have been full, to be honest, isn't so 26 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: You can imagine our clients had a lot of scrambling 27 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: to do after COVID hint. Um. But it's been a 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: really interesting landscape. There have been deals getting done. We've 29 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: seen some big shifts that I think are here to stay. 30 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: And um, we're definitely keeping folks in our toes, both 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,639 Speaker 1: on the consumer side as well as on the business side. 32 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: So UM, certainly a lot to dig into today. Thanks 33 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: for having me. So let me ask you this already. Um, 34 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: My wife goes to a very small gym get in 35 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: shape for women. Uh, they're not opening until July, I believe, 36 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: but that the race seems to be these workouts at home. 37 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: I read today in our business section up here on 38 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: the Globe that Lulu Lemon just invested five million and 39 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: a company called Mirror, which is a wall mounted machine 40 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: for streaming workout classes at home. Will this be continue 41 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: to be the trend? Do you think these workouts at 42 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: home or were people going to be back into the 43 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: gym's eventually. Yeah, these are all great topics. I think 44 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: that's exactly the question that a lot of investors and 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: clients have been asking, as they said, on significant amount 46 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: of dry powder, especially in the private equity world, and 47 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, look to make best on what will be 48 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: three to five year or even longer term investment horizons. 49 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: And the keep question is you know, what's the temporary 50 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: book and then what's the sustainable structural shift? That's really 51 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: fair to say, Um, well, the answer is no, one 52 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: knows fully because there's so many different factors that are 53 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: going to impact the industry. There's actual public health components, 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: their government regulations and shelter and place mandates that are 55 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: impacting businessdays. There's obviously macro economy and impact on consumer 56 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: discretionary power and then enforces the consumer psyche. So there 57 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of keep question works. But what we 58 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: do know is the consumer behaviors have definitely changed in 59 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: many cases because they've had to change over the lot 60 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: a couple of months, and this this period sustaining for 61 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: as long as it has is really allowed for consumers 62 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: to form new habits. So I think before COVID we 63 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: were already experiencing some sort of channel ships. Um. With 64 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: digital fitness really picking up and UH with shelter and 65 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: place orders, this channel ships has been significantly accelerated. So 66 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: there will absolutely be at least a meaningful subset of 67 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: consumers that continue with digital consumptus fitness even after their 68 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: their local gyms and boutiques do open again. So UM, 69 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: it's absolutely, you know, in part going to be a 70 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: more sustainable trend. Um. I think in particular, you know, 71 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: there's such a crowded landscape. You've got the connected fitness 72 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: players like a peloton or mirror, and you've got streaming 73 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: fitness and obviously tons of free content out there. Um, 74 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: we've seen investors buy into the sustainability of connected fitness 75 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: in particular because you obviously have that upfront investment with 76 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: a piece of equipment and then it's a subscription based model. 77 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: So um, it's very unlikely that that you're going to 78 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: see then we're back away from that sort of offering 79 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: once they've taken the plunge and decided to invest in 80 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: buying a mirror, buying a Peloton. UM. And you absolutely 81 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: see that reflected in in some of the performance of 82 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: these companies as well. You know, Peloton is a great 83 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: examples that it's a public company. Um. They seem significant 84 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: stock prices appreciation, which has reflected the momentum in the 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: business they think there are training it near their fifty 86 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: two WEEKAI in the high fifties and representing something like 87 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: a sixteen billion dollar market cap. And keep in mind 88 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: they you know, want public at twenty nine dollars a 89 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: share in September of last year. So UM, you know, 90 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: definitely some great momentum on the connected fitness side. UM. 91 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: And one thing I will point out is, you know 92 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: you talked about your wife Jim. Um. Jim's and boutiques 93 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: are having to really change how they think about their 94 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: long term strategy as a result of digital taking off 95 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: so quickly. Um. What we're hearing from a lot of 96 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: our clients and breaking mortar fitness, whether it's value players 97 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: or premium players, everyone's really thinking about and on the 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: channel strategy for the long term. UM. You know, some 99 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: folks have already been working on digital capabilities behind the 100 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: scenes before covid Hit and others never planned enter digital, 101 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: and overnight when they lost the percent of their revenue, 102 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: very quickly change those plans. So um, yeah, it's been 103 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: a lot of change both for digital as well as 104 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: brick and mortar pace and really a tale of two 105 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: growth stories. Right. So already, I mean as you look 106 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: at those trends, mean, did did the pandemic sort of 107 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: accelerated by because this was something that was already in place, right, 108 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, Peloton was out there and as you say, 109 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: sort of as you alluded to, at least, you know 110 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: what public at twenty nine sort of a little bit 111 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: of a tepid response. Initially they had the little ad 112 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: kerfuffle around the holidays and people were into the story, 113 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: but obviously it became a totally different one when we 114 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: got to the pandemic. I mean, does this accelerate the 115 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: trend by two years? Five years? A year? Like? But 116 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: how do you model that out? Yeah? I mean I 117 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: think it really depends on where you are in the market. So, um, 118 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: Peloton and other connected fitness players, you know, they obviously 119 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: have a certain tam that might be a little bit 120 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: narrower than some of the streaming fitness players or you know, 121 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: there's not that equipment purchase up front, and it's a 122 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: slightly more affordable price point UM. And so there's there 123 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: are a couple of different factors that will impact, you know, 124 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: how much acceleration took place. It's it's the size of 125 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: the TAM to begin with, UM, the level penetration that 126 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: you were already at in terms of random awareness and UM, 127 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: certain geographic footprints that you were already in UM. And 128 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: then UH, you know, channels with distributions. So in some cases, UH, 129 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: some of these businesses are direct to consumer and so 130 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: they have a more direct brand awareness and they can 131 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: see that response from consumers very quickly, pretty much overnight. 132 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: It's from COVID hit you could buy a peloton very quickly. 133 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: But some of the others are actually working UM with 134 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 1: a B two B model, So it takes a little 135 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: more time for corporations and governments to say, hey, we 136 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: need this for our employees, UM to make sure that 137 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: they're productive working from home, and so that acceleration takes 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: a little bit longer. UM. So it's really a number 139 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: of different factors. But UM, you know, absolutely a trend 140 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: that was already in play and absolutely accelerated by covid Um. 141 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: Not just with you know, existing customers spending more and 142 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: using these offerings more, but um, the cost of customer 143 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: acquisition for new customers has gone down materially, UM because 144 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: a lot of consumers don't have any other choice and 145 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: be um it's awesome. Advertising has gone down a lot 146 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: so um. Really, these digital fitness players are in their 147 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: heyday right now. It's been a great complimed events. Unfortunately 148 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: broader circumstances they're tougher, but it's been great for them. Aret, 149 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: I love the way you're simplified a brick and mortar 150 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: versus digital because this saves me from running down ten 151 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: different names of brick and mortar workout. Jim's so, who 152 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: survives in the brick and mortar business? And why anybody 153 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: who's done any research of both and has any fears 154 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: of going into a big gym knows about droplets can 155 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: stay in the year for three hours or so because 156 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,679 Speaker 1: people are breathing hotter and it's a warmer atmosphere. Um. 157 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: Do they move their spin cycles outside, they move their 158 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: equipment outside? How do the which in which, if any 159 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: at all the brick and mortars survived this pandemic. Yeah, 160 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: it's a great question. Um, So a couple of things, 161 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: all bit brick and mortar segments will absolutely be impacted. Right, 162 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: everyone needs to follow new regulations that we need to 163 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: spend more sanitizing hygiene, UM labor to make sure that 164 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: there's cleaning measures in place, UM signage, etcetera. Everyone needs 165 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: to restrict capacity and through put to some extent. So 166 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: there's no business that's unaffected. But um, there are certain 167 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: segments that are definitely better positioned than others. So if 168 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: you were to break down the brick and mortar industry 169 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: and a couple of segments just oversimplify, You've got the 170 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: value players like a Planet Fitness, You've got the premium 171 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: players like an equinoxter Life Time. You've got mid tier 172 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: folks like the twenty four hour Old Gym. And then 173 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: you've got the bruteaque players that are mostly all of 174 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: caart models and class based group fitness. UM. Going through 175 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: those couple of segments, h g LP is actually seen 176 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: as very well positioned. They've gotten affordable price points that 177 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: they're less susceptible than macro pressures. They've occurring revenue model, 178 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: which by the way makes canceling and rejoining pretty economically 179 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: unatteractive UM, and what they have working in their favor 180 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: as well well is pretty large box sizes that actually 181 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: allow for proper implementation and social distancing measures UM. So 182 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: you look at someone like Planet, you know, the stock 183 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: price has been actually fairly resilient today versus franchises in 184 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: a restaurant space. And in fact, they had filed an 185 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: eight K at the beginning of June UM talking about 186 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: their their reopenings and some of the early data, and 187 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: they saw, you know, folks weren't trading down from their 188 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: black card membership UM, the cancelations were being offset by 189 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: new joints UM, so they had some pretty uh healthy 190 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: data for the reopening. So h LP I think is 191 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: pretty well positioned. And then premium folks, they similarly benefit 192 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: from occurring revenue and large box sizes that allow for 193 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: social businessing. And in this case with the premium folks, 194 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: they also the added benefit of multi person memberships. You 195 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: have couples or families, and you see a lot more 196 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: stickiness that comes from community engagement. So those two UM 197 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: are definitely well positioned, I think where we run into 198 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: a slightly more challenging dynamics to be in the boutique 199 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: fitness segment. Uh either of an interesting phenomenon. On one hand, 200 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: this is where we saw from the strongest brands, the 201 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: best union economics, etcetera. But um, with all a cart model, 202 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: you don't have recurring revenue. And then most importantly you've 203 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: really small sized boxes with high density of consumers and 204 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: so you know, the highest perceived risk UM in terms 205 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: of you know, COVID impact and so these guys can 206 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: certainly open their doors, but they're going to face significant 207 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: capacity because starants versus a status quo and see probably 208 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: the greatest delta in their union economics. So UM, I 209 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: think this is where we'll see you know, challenges for 210 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: a foreseeable feature. And then of course the mid year 211 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: health clubs, which are already under pressure last year, so 212 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: someone like a goal just twenty four hours where they've 213 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: been on the liquidity pressure for for you know years now, 214 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: and UM applied for bankruptcy and are pursuing financial roof structuring. 215 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: So the simple way in the land as i'd say, 216 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: HBLP WID Planet, and then the premium health clubs like 217 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: a lifetime are probably best position for the foreseeable future. 218 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: So already, let's go a little bit deeper on boutiques 219 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: because it's an area that very close to the hearts 220 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: of of me and you. We talked to these folks 221 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: all the time. Rick Stohlmeyer was on this pod five 222 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: six weeks ago. He was saying from mind body that 223 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: at least of boutiques could just go out of business. 224 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? What do you hear 225 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: from the boutique Honors? So it's a it's a big 226 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: number that could go out of business, unfortunately, and it's 227 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: a pretty believable number. We've heard that same estimation come 228 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: from a number of management teams across the industry. And 229 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: I think the reason it's so believable that such a 230 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: significant part of the industry could go away is because, um, 231 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: there are a number of players that just don't have 232 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: a backstop in terms of you know, capital cushion or 233 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: institutional funding. Um, the vast majority of this industry is 234 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: it's very fragmented and owned by mom and pop um 235 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: a small private owners versus large institutional players. So um, 236 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: these guys at the closer doors, they lost almost a 237 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: hundred percent or a hundred percent of their revenue overnight 238 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: UM when they reopened. If they reopened, they're going to 239 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: have half of the number of consumers, They're gonna have 240 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: higher expenses running through their P and L, and in 241 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: many cases didn't have the margin to give away in 242 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 1: the first place. So it's unfortunately, UM, there's gonna be 243 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: a lot of impact on cash flow for these businesses, 244 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: and UM many will reopen only temporarily or not at all. UM. 245 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: Where you will see businesses survived would be you know, 246 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: the scaled players. So someone like a Berries who's backed 247 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: by north Castle or core Power, back myy P s 248 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: G or at Financial Fitness. UM. They have the benefits 249 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: of scale. UM in many cases they have some of 250 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: the most attractive unit economics, but most importantly, they have 251 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: institutional capital to help them get through this period. UM. 252 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: So it's it's a challenging dynamic for boutiques that I think, UM. 253 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: You know, the combination of all a heart and these 254 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: small box sizes as we mentioned, plus the fact that 255 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: it is so fragmented, UM really is it presents a 256 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: challenge for the industry. Now some would say that UM, 257 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: the industry was a little bit overcrowded to begin with. UM, 258 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: it's very saturated, and when you think about Barrier Century, 259 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: they were probably the lowest in boutiques because you just 260 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: need a couple of thousand square feet and a couple 261 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars to open a studio and build it, 262 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: and they will come in the prior environment. So UM, 263 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: there's probably some element of streamlining that needed to take 264 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: place in the industry, but it's UM an unfortunate challenge 265 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: that we're facing given the current circumstances. Hardy, going forward 266 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: in this new decade right here, will most of the 267 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: new business come from digital? Do you think first? As 268 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: brick and mortar? What I do know is that all 269 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: players in the industry will be planning for having a 270 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: digital strategy. UM. You know many many of our clients 271 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: never plan to enter digital and they are absolutely no 272 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: planning for digital being a poor part of their strategy. UM. 273 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: The long term business mix, I think is still to 274 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: be determined because it's it's UM. A lot of these 275 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: companies are still trying to figure out the role that 276 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: digital fitness will play and their strategy. UM. For some 277 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: of these boutiques, they're just looking at at the digital 278 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: as a way to recoup some of their lost revenue 279 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: during this period. But believe that you know, when public 280 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: health developments allow for it, a vaccine comes out, that 281 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, their model will go back to being mostly 282 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: written mortar. Um, Oh, there is a're actually creating digital 283 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: as a much bigger part of their business where they 284 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: plan to roll it up as part of their membership 285 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: fundal for the long term. Um or you know, plan 286 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: to actually pivot their business model and make most of 287 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: their revenue through digital and have a couple of breaking 288 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: mortar locations for brand building purposes. So if it really 289 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: depends on where these businesses decided to take their strategy 290 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: and then also how consumer psyche evolved. Um, you know, 291 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: it's interesting consumers. The data so far from reopening would 292 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: show that consumers are very eager to get back into 293 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: the gym in terms of traffic levels, etcetera. But um, 294 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to tell what happens if there's 295 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: a second wave or how sustainable is that return when 296 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: there's you know, some sort of outbreak in a gym, 297 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: and so, um, it's very it's very early on in 298 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: the reopening game, and it's hard to tell what the 299 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: interplay is going to be UM, but we know that 300 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: consumers have absolutely developed some new habits during this time 301 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: period and for a subset of consumers that will absolutely stick. 302 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: So digital, without a doubt, will be a bigger part 303 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: of the industry UM than anyone thought it would be 304 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. So Aretie, just widening 305 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: the aperture a little bit, because I know you also 306 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: look at the broader wellness space. I feel like this 307 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: pandemic has been to some extent, you know, kind of 308 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: a tale of two approaches where you have you know, 309 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: the dreaded kind of COVID fifteen and people talking about 310 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: you know, kind of hunkering in and eating a bunch 311 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: of comfort food and not exercising. And then on the 312 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: other side, and you've talked about some of these numbers 313 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: with Peloton and Mirror and others, you do have you know, 314 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: demand really high for for at home fitness. How do 315 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: you sort of synthesize all of that, especially in this 316 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: kind of broader wellness movement that you and I have 317 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: been talking about together for for years, and this sort 318 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: of trend toward a generally healthier lifestyle. What do you 319 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: make of this this moment, If anything, we'll get consumers 320 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: to focus more on their health. It's a global pandemic 321 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: that's very contagious and doesn't bear any segment of society. UM. 322 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: We talked about how fitness is booming UM, but consumers 323 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: have absolutely accelerated their focused in other parts of the 324 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: walness equations such as nutrition, mental wellness, sleeps, and other 325 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: inflary categories. We see kinds of a more nutrition conscious 326 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: consumer in the data. UM. They're multiple categories of nutrition, 327 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: but looking at something like b MS, which is vitamins, 328 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: generals and supplements UM, we can get a lot of 329 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: good public data through CpG companies and the category invests 330 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: a great proxy for consumer trends UM. And the puntline 331 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: is consumers are spending more on v MS as a whole, 332 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: and most on immunity category in particular, and this is 333 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: actually a globally observable phenomenon, just not just in the US. UM. 334 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: In the US market, a recent study by the consulting 335 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: from L A K actually showed that consumers have been 336 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: reporting a fifteen percent increase in spending on VMS and 337 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: c outbreaks and unsurprisingly, within this immunity really has been 338 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: the fastest growing UM. And you know, immunity products are 339 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: supposed to grow something like this year when they were 340 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: in the single visit percentage growth bucket last year. And 341 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: similarly in Asia, an analysis of China's recovery post COVID 342 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: has shown strong evidence of increasing demand and b MS 343 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: UM Ali Baba's v MS category grows and the like. 344 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: In Q one, um an immunity grew six year over 345 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: year in Q one, So UM really consistent story across 346 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: the board. Same thing if you were to look at 347 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: a European player like wreck It thank either and UM 348 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: others in like Unilever, etcetera. So there there there's a 349 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: lot of good data on consumers spending more in the 350 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: MS and then immunity in particular. And I think, UM, 351 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: going back to the question of blip or sustainable, it's 352 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: hard to unlearn things that you've learned about your health. 353 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: So I would absolutely anticipate that once folks start to 354 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: take care of themselves, it takes sense that they can 355 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: make and continue to do so UM, you know they will, 356 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: and so I think that's here to say. And then 357 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: on the mental wellness front, UM, we've obviously seen that 358 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: pick and growth there. I think we all know there's 359 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: been no dearth of stress during the pandemic. UM. You know, 360 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: from implications on health and safety too, financial security, and 361 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: of course all the interpersonal dynamics we've been hearing out 362 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: in the household. So UM, consumers absolutely need an outlet 363 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: on the mental wellness side, and UM on the bad front. 364 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: Consumer usage of many wellness apps despike pretty materially. UM. 365 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: We all know Calm one of the leaders in the 366 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: digital meditation space. UM. They just reported their highest ever 367 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: daily active user number exceeding four and a half million 368 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: UM last month in mid June. Similarly, the competitor headspaces 369 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: benefited from tailwinds UM an upside of serious C round 370 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: and raised under fifty million last month as well. UM. 371 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: And then we're seeing tons on the B two B 372 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: front UM, I think you know right here in New York, 373 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: um Cuomo announced that the government had teamed up would 374 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: head space to provide a whole wellness resource between New Yorkers. 375 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: So um, all across the board, there's definitely an increased 376 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: focus both on nutrition as well as just taking care 377 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: of yourself from mental wellness standpoint, to me, that's very 378 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: interesting the mental health because I hear it all the time. 379 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: I'm depressed, I'm onto antidepressant right now, and it's sort 380 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: of an amorphous part of this whole p endemic that 381 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: that's been going on right now. Do you actually see 382 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: facilities opening up other than just going to a doctor 383 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: and asking for an antidepressant and going and talking to 384 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: a therapist, of facilities for mental health, you know, I 385 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: think mental health will probably be best served their digital 386 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: offerings a couple of reasons. The first of all, um, 387 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: it's a very private personal matter, and so when you 388 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: think about their purpose that facilities, physical facilities are served 389 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: and and something like fitness, it's really about community and 390 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: engaging with others while you're working out. For mental wellness, 391 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: it's more of a personal journey. Um, So that's actually 392 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: pretty well served in terms of um, you know, the 393 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: digital channel. I'd also point out that there are a 394 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: number of digital players that are really just trying to 395 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: make mental wellness more accessible, either in terms of making 396 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: breaking it down and making it easy to start your journey, 397 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: or making it more financially accessible. Someone like a talk 398 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: space is trying to really democratize mental wellness and make 399 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: something you know, therapy which is normally pretty unaffordable for 400 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the population, you know, making that accessible 401 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: from a dollar standpoint. So I think the digital pollutions 402 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: have shown that they can. They can address me as 403 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: personal in someone's own space, on their own time. They 404 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: can make it easy and simplify and you know, like 405 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: you said, it's a complicated Morphis segment of the lowness industry. 406 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: They can help to really simplify them, demystify it. Um. 407 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: So all these things put together, I think digital will 408 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: probably take off more than physical facilities. But of course 409 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: there are handful of meditation studios and others out there 410 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: that have certainly done well. But I think digital will 411 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: probably be the prevalent channel for this segment of the 412 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 1: industry long term. So Artie, I want to wrap up 413 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: by asking you a more personal question, because when you 414 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: and I first met, and I was working on my 415 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: book Sweat Equity, in which you feature quite prominently, you 416 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: actually kick off the entire book. I mean, your whole 417 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: approach to this was a very personal one, and he 418 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: was driven by your personal interests. I wonder how you've 419 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: been doing sort of through all this, how your own 420 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: routines around fitness and wellness have changed absolutely personal, UM, 421 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: professional passion mind. I love the health and wellness dace 422 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: and absolutely got into it just through my own journey. UM. 423 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: It's been interesting to see. I think again, I've been 424 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: a case study and have a consumers have to evolve UM. 425 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: As you know, Jason, I was a big boutique fitness 426 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: scholer UM. You know, went to soul cycle multiple times 427 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: a week and UM had my whole UH in person 428 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: lineup decided for every week. That was pretty regular, and 429 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: UH sent a ton of money in the blut fitness category. 430 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: It never thought I'd be a digital fitness user. And 431 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: then I left the city and fled and March haven't 432 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: been there for four months, and I had to figure 433 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: out something you do in the intim So I tried 434 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of digital fitness offerings and UH. I had 435 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: tried to UH free trials, then ended up going to 436 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: paid monthly user and actually just upgraded one of my 437 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: memberships to an annual membership. So UM, I have definitely 438 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: been a great case study again of how the consumers 439 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: have to change UM. And you know in the vms 440 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: and and you know, all the other categories. Have I 441 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: increased my immunity supplements for sure, and I speaking care 442 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: of myself with sleeping more UM and staying at home 443 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: and working from home has definitely helped with that. But 444 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: UM absolutely have been a case study of all these changes. 445 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: And I think what's going to be interesting is trying 446 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: to figure out when all these institutions reopen, when I 447 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: have the ability to potentially go back to all of 448 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: my quote unquote old habits, what do I ultimately decide 449 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: to do? And you know how steaky have these changes been. Well, 450 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: it's great to catch up with you. As I said 451 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: at the time when the book came out, you're my 452 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: Rosetta Stone and understanding all of these trends you continue 453 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: to be so I feel like we've all got a 454 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: lot smarter just listening to you break it down as 455 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: always Golden taxes already k poor looking at all things 456 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: fitness and wellness. Really good to hear your voice stay 457 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: well amid all of this craziness. Thank you day well 458 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: talk and you can catch our podcast right here every Monday, 459 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday. I'm Jason Kelly. Find me on Twitter 460 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: at Jason Kelly News, and I'm Mike Lynch. You can 461 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Lynch e w c VV, 462 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports form Bluemberg 463 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: Radio around the world.