Speaker 1: He hey via fam It's mandra here. I am so
Speaker 1: excited to tell you about this special guest episode of
Speaker 1: CNN's Diversifying and Diversifying if you have not heard, it
Speaker 1: as a brand new personal finance podcast from CNN Audio
Speaker 1: hosted by My Girl, Delian Barros, also known as the
Speaker 1: money Coach. You may have seen her and if you haven't,
Speaker 1: where have you been hiding under a rock? On TikTok
Speaker 1: and Instagram, Delian shares amazing investing and fire tips so
Speaker 1: that you can get off that hamster wheel and fulfill
Speaker 1: your financial dreams. And I was honored to be a
Speaker 1: guest on CNN's Diversifying with Delian earlier this year, so
Speaker 1: today we are going to share that episode with you.
Speaker 1: It is called Negotiating Your Way to Success. In this episode,
Speaker 1: we talk about all of the ways that you can
Speaker 1: actually negotiate for more at work, whether you're looking for
Speaker 1: a new job or you're asking for a raise on
Speaker 1: the job. Can't wait for you guys to hear the show,
Speaker 1: and if you haven't yet, please follow and subscribe to
Speaker 1: diversity find This show explores how the traditional rules of
Speaker 1: money management don't necessarily apply to new generations. And again
Speaker 1: with Delian as the host. You cannot go wrong. Go
Speaker 1: check out Diversifying. You can listen to it wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: A record number of Americans quit their jobs in the
Speaker 2: last year, including me, in what's now being called the
Speaker 2: Great Resignation. The pandemic has made a lot of people
Speaker 2: realize that the demands of their job weren't lining up
Speaker 2: with their salary expectations. Even before COVID, leaving a job
Speaker 2: has been a great way to climb the career ladder
Speaker 2: and increase your pay.
Speaker 1: I'm an excellent quitter. Six times I quit, and I
Speaker 1: never quit with nothing else lined up.
Speaker 2: Mandy Woodrow Santo's is a career coach, former hiring manager,
Speaker 2: and founder of the Mandy Money business and brand. She
Speaker 2: also co hosts the podcast Brown Ambition, which focuses on
Speaker 2: helping people of color build wealth.
Speaker 3: Of course, quitting.
Speaker 2: Isn't the only way to get more money or benefits.
Speaker 2: It's just one form of that scary but critical thing
Speaker 2: called negotiating.
Speaker 1: I have learned that taking charge of your career often
Speaker 1: does mean walking away when opportunities are no longer giving
Speaker 1: you the financial or career advance Men opportunities that they
Speaker 1: may have when you first started.
Speaker 2: I know not everyone can afford to quit their job
Speaker 2: or walk away from a lackluster offer.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, those aren't the only options. Today.
Speaker 2: We're talking about how to get what you're worth at work,
Speaker 2: from salaries to signing bonuses to titles.
Speaker 3: I'm Delian Barrows. This is diversifying.
Speaker 2: Mandy's career began in journalism at a small newspaper in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 2: She left that job after only two weeks for a
Speaker 2: better offer, and since then has never missed an opportunity
Speaker 2: to ask for more money with each jump of the
Speaker 2: professional ladder.
Speaker 1: Looking back over my career, I've went from earning thirty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to over three hundred thousand dollars in total
Speaker 1: compensation in a decade.
Speaker 3: That's incredible. I mean, can we just take a minute.
Speaker 2: Thirty thousand to three hundred thousand dollars that is just
Speaker 2: one of the most impressive salary negotiation stories I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: The reasons I quit always had to do with a
Speaker 1: couple of things. One, I wasn't getting the opportunities for
Speaker 1: advancement in my current role, or two I wasn't being
Speaker 1: paid what I perceived to be my value at the time,
Speaker 1: And when those two things were true, I was typically
Speaker 1: ready to move on out. Now. I wasn't like hitting
Speaker 1: the job application boards. I was still continuing to do
Speaker 1: my job really thoughtfully, but I never stopped sharing my work.
Speaker 1: I was joining professional organizations, I was staying connected to colleagues,
Speaker 1: and through those connections I would have opportunities come to me.
Speaker 2: Do you think that forced you to choose between your
Speaker 2: career goals and your financial goals?
Speaker 1: No, no, not at all, I think. And you know
Speaker 1: what when I talk about that, about having ten x
Speaker 1: to my compensation over ten years and ten exing my
Speaker 1: net worth along the way, people tend to immediately want
Speaker 1: to know, well, what do you do. You must work
Speaker 1: in tech, you must work in Google, and they want
Speaker 1: to immediately find a reason why your success doesn't matter
Speaker 1: to anyone else and how it can't be replicated. So
Speaker 1: that was me quitting my way rich and quitting my
Speaker 1: way to an executive editor position that no one was
Speaker 1: going to give me, you know, at the New York
Speaker 1: Times or CNN or wherever. I created that opportunity for
Speaker 1: myself and the magical thing about having a title at
Speaker 1: a company is that that's how people start to perceive you.
Speaker 1: And I never went back to anything less than a
Speaker 1: senior director, you know, after that point. And to answer
Speaker 1: your question, no, I did not have to sacrifice career
Speaker 1: or my financial goals in pursuit of my career goals.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think people don't realize that title matters, and
Speaker 2: sometimes you feel like, well, if there's not a salary
Speaker 2: attached to it, then what's the point. But I think
Speaker 2: that that could be a huge missed opportunity that even
Speaker 2: if you can squeeze more money out of the company
Speaker 2: that you're with, if you can get them to bump
Speaker 2: you to a better title, you can use that as
Speaker 2: leverage at the next job. So I just, you know,
Speaker 2: share this again on my Instagram about how men will
Speaker 2: apply to jobs even when they only meet sixty percent
Speaker 2: of the qualifications, but women will hold back unless they
Speaker 2: meet one hundred percent. It sounds like you did not
Speaker 2: fall into that category. You kind of jumped in even
Speaker 2: if you didn't check every single box. Where did that
Speaker 2: confidence come from?
Speaker 1: I really think it comes down to that It's about
Speaker 1: the fact that time and time again, as a woman
Speaker 1: of color. I am a plus sized woman who's moved
Speaker 1: through a world where this hair, this body that I
Speaker 1: live in, my skin color is so not the norm.
Speaker 1: It is so not who's getting the shine and getting
Speaker 1: the prints and shining armor and getting the getting the
Speaker 1: job on camera, you know, and I just resented it.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, if that, you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: not the person people usually think of, then I'm going
Speaker 1: to think of myself. You know, what do I have
Speaker 1: to gain by not thinking of myself in that way?
Speaker 1: And as soon as I sort of recognize that no
Speaker 1: one else expected much out of me, it sort of
Speaker 1: gave myself the freedom to just expect everything from myself
Speaker 1: and to always push myself.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. And I feel so seen by
Speaker 2: listening to you.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately we've learned to kind of.
Speaker 2: Live with it, but it's it's not okay, and it's
Speaker 2: an ongoing issue. So you talk to somebody, they tell
Speaker 2: you what the salary range is. How do you actually
Speaker 2: come up with a number to ask for? Do you
Speaker 2: go straight to like the highest number on the range
Speaker 2: when you're asking for your pay?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't name a number. Ever, Initially that would
Speaker 1: be my first piece of advice, you just don't want
Speaker 1: to put a number out there. Initial numbers tend to
Speaker 1: be sticky. The first question people are often asked during
Speaker 1: interviews these days, and it usually is that first fifteen
Speaker 1: minute recruiters treating call, which sounds so innocuous. Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: just a recruiter from such and such company. You just
Speaker 1: want to see if you're interested, And then they usually
Speaker 1: will ask, hey, just wanted to know what's your expectation
Speaker 1: for salary? At that moment, don't give an answer. What
Speaker 1: you can say is, you know, I'm really interested in
Speaker 1: the role, but I'd love to hear more about it
Speaker 1: and learn more about the team before I feel prepared
Speaker 1: to discuss compensation. That being said, if you guys have
Speaker 1: a budget in mind or a range, I'd love to know,
Speaker 1: and then it's up to them. You know, they can
Speaker 1: give you a range or not. And as a hiring
Speaker 1: manager myself, I always knew I could go up to
Speaker 1: fifteen percent over the stated budget for the role, and
Speaker 1: then after fifteen percent more I would need to get
Speaker 1: special approval. What helps me negotiate harder for myself is
Speaker 1: having a real deep, foundational understanding of what my market
Speaker 1: value is and the best ways to do that are
Speaker 1: not to go on glass door and look at salaries.
Speaker 1: The best way, hands down, is to speak with other
Speaker 1: people in your industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing. The offer is just an
Speaker 2: opening negotiation point. Like a lot of people think, like
Speaker 2: the offer is they're giving you their final and their best.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. They literally bake this into the process. It
Speaker 2: is expected, especially if you're coming in through a recruiter,
Speaker 2: it is one hundred percent expected that you're going to negotiate.
Speaker 2: We're at that point you finally get the offer you
Speaker 2: want to counter. Do you have some scripts that people
Speaker 2: can use get it to the next level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're getting an offer in email or
Speaker 1: if they're calling you on the phone, don't feel pressured
Speaker 1: to give an answer right away. I say, ask for
Speaker 1: at least forty eight hours to review the offer and
Speaker 1: get back to them. And in that forty eight hours
Speaker 1: you can kind of think about what it is that
Speaker 1: you want and think about some additional questions you may have.
Speaker 1: I've definitely had coaching clients where they've gotten an offer
Speaker 1: that just included base compensation and maybe it talked about
Speaker 1: unlimited PTO and other benefits, but didn't talk about signing
Speaker 1: bonus and equity, and she thought, oh, well, they must
Speaker 1: not offer it, and I'm like, well, no, you have
Speaker 1: to ask for it. Sometimes I prefer to call on
Speaker 1: the phone and have a conversation and then follow up
Speaker 1: with my ask via email. So when you come with
Speaker 1: your offer, I would just make it clear, Okay, I
Speaker 1: received your offer. I'm so excited. I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: disappointed in the compensation. I would love to know if
Speaker 1: this is negotiable. If so, I think XYZ range is
Speaker 1: more appropriate given my skills and the responsibilities as discussed
Speaker 1: during the interview process. Something really simple like that.
Speaker 2: And there are so many other things that you know
Speaker 2: we've touched on that you can ask for as well,
Speaker 2: like relocation costs if you are moving. You can also
Speaker 2: ask for more flexible schedule, maybe more PTO time. There
Speaker 2: are a lot of other benefits that you may not
Speaker 2: have even considered that could kind of, you know, perk
Speaker 2: up that package for you. And you're just focusing on
Speaker 2: the salary and the dollar amounts. So it's good to
Speaker 2: get a little creative. What are some other benefits that
Speaker 2: you encourage women to negotiate when they're trying to leverage
Speaker 2: their offers.
Speaker 1: I get the most excited when I'm helping coach of
Speaker 1: women through a negotiation for a new opportunity. So this
Speaker 1: is a new job opportunity, not at your current employer,
Speaker 1: because I mean, hands down, this is one of the
Speaker 1: most lucrative offer are hitting the table. And it's not
Speaker 1: just your base compensation. It's also the potential for a
Speaker 1: signing bonus. And equity.
Speaker 2: And Mandy, and let me stop you for a second.
Speaker 2: Can you define for us what you mean by equity.
Speaker 2: So equity is actually part ownership in the company. So
Speaker 2: the same way that you may want to invest in
Speaker 2: a publicly traded company like Apple or Peloton maybe not
Speaker 2: now Tesla maybe more so, they will give you shares
Speaker 2: in the company as an incentive, because typically with equity,
Speaker 2: whether it's stock options or restricted stock units, they will
Speaker 2: not give it to you right away. They'll say, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to give you ten thousand dollars worth of equity,
Speaker 2: but you can't actually do anything with it unless you
Speaker 2: stay with us for a year. Then we're going to
Speaker 2: give you one third, and then if you stay another year,
Speaker 2: we'll give you the second third and so you can
Speaker 2: cash in, you can sell that equity and then you
Speaker 2: turn it into cash, whether you can use that for
Speaker 2: debt or put it in your savings or trade it
Speaker 2: for other stocks, whatever. But you got to stay right.
Speaker 2: So that's a really big piece of advice for anyone
Speaker 2: who's feeling like.
Speaker 1: Oh, but I have equity. Oh but I just joined
Speaker 1: a year ago, and they're going to make me repay
Speaker 1: my signing bonus if I leave sooner than a year, Well,
Speaker 1: then tell the new job that and have them pay
Speaker 1: for it. It's really cool, it's amazing. So be willing
Speaker 1: to jump. And when you do jump, after you're finished
Speaker 1: negotiating the base compensation, don't be afraid to ask for
Speaker 1: signing bonus and equity. And depending on your level, like
Speaker 1: if you're going an entry level, I'd like to say
Speaker 1: like five to ten percent is a good benchmark for
Speaker 1: a signing bonus. If you're coming in mid level to
Speaker 1: senior level, ten to fifteen percent VP level or above
Speaker 1: twenty percent minimum.
Speaker 2: Let's move on to the downside of negotiating, because you know,
Speaker 2: unfortunately I've heard too many stories.
Speaker 3: Of women who go all in.
Speaker 2: They negotiate, they ask, they lean in right, but then
Speaker 2: their offer is revoked and it can be.
Speaker 3: A devastating setback.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you're aware of, but Stephanie
Speaker 2: O'Connell Rodriguez coined the raise the ambition penalty, and she
Speaker 2: talks a lot about it, where women are penalized for
Speaker 2: asking for more because they're seen as aggressive. What are
Speaker 2: your thoughts on that and do you think that that's
Speaker 2: something that women should consider when they're thinking about asking
Speaker 2: for more.
Speaker 1: I don't want that to dissuade anyone asking for more. Let's,
Speaker 1: you know, hypothetically, say a woman asks for more than
Speaker 1: a male candidate and her offer is rescinded, and it's
Speaker 1: because the hiring manager is a woman or a male
Speaker 1: who's offended that she would want so much and is like,
Speaker 1: we don't want to work with her. I don't think
Speaker 1: you want to work there either. I don't think you
Speaker 1: want to work there anyway. That's kind of the game
Speaker 1: we play when we work for companies. It's sort of
Speaker 1: like when you put a house on the market and
Speaker 1: you think it's worth a million dollars, but if someone
Speaker 1: only wants to pay six hundred and grand for it
Speaker 1: because it's not on the good side of town. Well
Speaker 1: that's what the market wants, right then, Okay, so what's
Speaker 1: your option. You can hold on to it for a
Speaker 1: bit longer, find a buyer who's willing to pay what
Speaker 1: you know you're worth. And that's kind of what I
Speaker 1: always did myself. Just keep waiting until you find or
Speaker 1: keep looking for a place that will really value you,
Speaker 1: or start your own business like we did.
Speaker 2: We have to keep pushing forward. We have to keep
Speaker 2: asking for more. Otherwise that wealth gap is just going
Speaker 2: to continue to grow and grow indefinitely and things won't
Speaker 2: get better.
Speaker 1: As a woman of color too, sometimes you can't wait
Speaker 1: for companies to get it together when it comes to
Speaker 1: creating support and resources and mentorship for us. So if
Speaker 1: there is an executive coaching program, or a career coaching program,
Speaker 1: or a leadership I did a week long leadership seminar.
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted more management training and my company
Speaker 1: didn't offer it. So I went out and found it
Speaker 1: and they paid for it. So if you come to
Speaker 1: them and you say we're if you already have a
Speaker 1: coach or a program that you go to annually and
Speaker 1: you're negotiating a new job, offer definitely ask if there's
Speaker 1: a leadership and development budget that you can use annually
Speaker 1: to invest in your own leadership training and to get
Speaker 1: support from peers and put yourself in a position where
Speaker 1: you'll get to meet other peers in your industry and
Speaker 1: keep that networking skill always active. That's definitely something to
Speaker 1: consider asking during negotiations as well. We're going to take a.
Speaker 2: Quick break, but we'll be back soon to talk about
Speaker 2: when salary negotiation went viral. Stay with us, Welcome back
Speaker 2: to diversifying. This January, social media went crazy over a
Speaker 2: post by recruiter Mercedes Johnson. It read quote, I just
Speaker 2: offered a candidate eighty five thousand dollars for a job
Speaker 2: that had a budget of one hundred and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I offered her that because that's what she asked for,
Speaker 2: and I personally don't have the bandwidth to give lessons
Speaker 2: on salary negotiation. Here's a lesson. Always ask for the
Speaker 2: salary you want.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 2: The Internet did not react well to this. People were outraged.
Speaker 2: They felt that Mercedes should have told the candidate about
Speaker 2: the full range of pay, or at least let them
Speaker 2: know that there was more wiggle room in the budget.
Speaker 2: The Internet accused her of being a corporate chill and
Speaker 2: said she was contributing to the gender and racial pay gap.
Speaker 2: We caught up with Mercedes to get her side of
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 5: So I really honestly meant for everybody to take ownership
Speaker 5: of their interviewing process. You know, I believe that information
Speaker 5: does not mail itself to your front door.
Speaker 2: Mercedes works for a recruitment training company and has been
Speaker 2: in the field for years. She stands behind her message.
Speaker 5: I understand the pain point that kind of got everybody
Speaker 5: you know up and upset about this because I understand
Speaker 5: that how it came across was very bad. But companies
Speaker 5: do not owe it to the employee to give them
Speaker 5: their complete budget for each job. And quite frankly, I
Speaker 5: don't think that many companies can do that. I feel
Speaker 5: like if that was the way that the world worked,
Speaker 5: then we wouldn't have balance.
Speaker 2: She also thinks it's a mistake to talk to your
Speaker 2: coworkers about their salaries because it can make employees think
Speaker 2: they should all be paid the same.
Speaker 5: No employee has been through the same schooling, no employee
Speaker 5: has the same work ethic. No employee is going to
Speaker 5: ask for the same thing, So I don't really think
Speaker 5: it's fair for each company to pay an employee the
Speaker 5: same thing, which is why the salary range is so relevant.
Speaker 2: Personally, I really disagree with this. Knowing what your coworkers
Speaker 2: make doesn't automatically mean that you are entitled to the
Speaker 2: same pay. It just allows you to make a case
Speaker 2: for why you should also be at the top of
Speaker 2: the range. In addition, under federal law, employers cannot prohibit
Speaker 2: employees from discussing their pay. But it's valuable to know
Speaker 2: that some companies and recruiters do think this way, and
Speaker 2: job applicants should be aware of it. Just because this
Speaker 2: is sometimes the case, though, doesn't mean it isn't harmful.
Speaker 2: Here's Mandy Woodrow Santo's again.
Speaker 1: It completely ignores the fact that companies have all of
Speaker 1: the cards, They have all the power in this situation,
Speaker 1: and to expect the person on the other side of
Speaker 1: the phone or the other side of the email with
Speaker 1: the least amount of power to somehow come up with
Speaker 1: and guess to see what kind of cards you're holding.
Speaker 1: It just does not make sense at all to me.
Speaker 2: To Mandy, it makes sense that a brand new hire
Speaker 2: with less experience in the field would be paid less,
Speaker 2: but the company should be able to explain why, and
Speaker 2: she thinks employees should discuss pay with their peers so
Speaker 2: they can put together a unique and informed ask. We
Speaker 2: actually had a few listeners call us with their salary
Speaker 2: stories so that Mandy could weigh in and give some advice.
Speaker 2: One of them brought up an issue that can be
Speaker 2: solved by having these exact kinds of conversations a.
Speaker 6: Fee like as being of an Asian descent, we're all
Speaker 6: likely put in a category where we're not supposed to
Speaker 6: even talk about salary and accept whatever we offer to us.
Speaker 6: Being my colleagues who are out there more with a
Speaker 6: wider background, they negotiate not only their salary and started
Speaker 6: us bonuses, which is never heard of in my generation
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 1: What I love about this listener question is I think
Speaker 1: it demonstrates the power of speaking as uncomfortable and awkward
Speaker 1: as it can be, of speaking to your colleagues about
Speaker 1: what it is that they're earning. And maybe it's if
Speaker 1: it's truly uncomfortable for you to talk to colleges at
Speaker 1: your current company, I at least talk to people at
Speaker 1: other companies in a similar industry. At a similar level
Speaker 1: and talk amongst one another.
Speaker 5: Share.
Speaker 1: You know, it may not be everyone who wants to
Speaker 1: tell you here's what I earn, but they may give
Speaker 1: you an expectation of even oh yeah, I got a
Speaker 1: signing bonus, and then that perks something up in you,
Speaker 1: like a signing bonus. What's that? How much I didn't
Speaker 1: know I could get that? But it goes back to
Speaker 1: the power of sharing and having people around you who
Speaker 1: can influence you in a positive way.
Speaker 2: Another listener actually negotiated successfully but found out not all
Speaker 2: her coworkers had done the same.
Speaker 4: I'm actually had a really difficult conversation with someone on
Speaker 4: my team who's the title above being, and I found
Speaker 4: out that we actually make the same salary, So very
Speaker 4: exciting for me. I think that means they negotiated really well,
Speaker 4: But it also means that she's getting underpaid.
Speaker 1: Awkward. But you know what, incredible of you to share
Speaker 1: that with her, and if that doesn't light a fire
Speaker 1: in her belly to get on up out of there
Speaker 1: and go somewhere where she's paid what she's value, than
Speaker 1: it should. But here's the other thing. I'm willing to
Speaker 1: bet that she's been at that company longer than you
Speaker 1: have and that you are a more recent hire. And
Speaker 1: this is what goes back to the point of when
Speaker 1: you're willing to quit and move on to a new opportunity,
Speaker 1: that's when you get the biggest bumps and pay the
Speaker 1: leverage you have. When a company's trying to woo you
Speaker 1: and incentivize you to leave your company, those incentives are
Speaker 1: just bigger.
Speaker 2: Our last listener voicemail comes from someone who's coworker has
Speaker 2: a problematic but understandable take on getting a raise.
Speaker 7: I recently had a colleague of mine say that they
Speaker 7: didn't want to take on more salary because they felt
Speaker 7: as if if they took more money, they would be
Speaker 7: tasked with more work. You know, it's just like now
Speaker 7: they owe more to the company. And I said, you
Speaker 7: really shouldn't think of it that way. You should think
Speaker 7: of it more as your time is worth that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not the first time I've heard this, and
Speaker 1: it especially comes well. I speak to a lot of
Speaker 1: women of color. That's just too I gravitate towards my people.
Speaker 1: I love us, and I have heard especially women who
Speaker 1: have this perception that they take more money they go
Speaker 1: for a promotion they're going to have less time, they're
Speaker 1: going to be more stressed out, they're going to have
Speaker 1: to sacrifice the work life balance they've worked really hard
Speaker 1: to cultivate. And what frustrates me about that is it
Speaker 1: makes it seem like we are enforcing our own glass
Speaker 1: sealing in a way, like we're stopping ourselves from going
Speaker 1: to the highest levels because we're telling ourself a story
Speaker 1: about what our life has to look like if we
Speaker 1: get there, and we're not really taking into consideration that.
Speaker 1: I agree with that listener that yes, your time is
Speaker 1: actually worth that, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you
Speaker 1: have to do anything different than what you're doing now,
Speaker 1: but your skills at this company may be just worth
Speaker 1: a lot more. So, especially as we're moving back into
Speaker 1: the office, a lot of people are I'm not going
Speaker 1: to say going back to work, because we've all been
Speaker 1: working this whole time, but going back into the office.
Speaker 1: As a leader, I would think really carefully about intentionally
Speaker 1: promoting or giving accolades to people who choose to work
Speaker 1: remotely to show that we still value you and that
Speaker 1: we're not thinking less of you because you're not in
Speaker 1: the office.
Speaker 2: That was Mandy Woodrow Santo's with some incredible advice for
Speaker 2: getting what you're worth at work. Negotiating is a normal
Speaker 2: part of the job process and employers aren't expecting it.
Speaker 2: The bottom line is this, do some research to determine
Speaker 2: your value and then ask for it. Next Monday, we're
Speaker 2: breaking down why everything from your gas to your groceries
Speaker 2: is getting more expensive and it's all because of inflation.
Speaker 3: To the end of the day, we all need to
Speaker 3: be paid more, you know, if everything keeps going up,
Speaker 3: we need to be paid more to survive.
Speaker 2: Make sure to follow us so you don't miss and
Speaker 2: if you like what you heard, please recommend the podcast
Speaker 2: to your friends and family, then give us a rating
Speaker 2: and a review. It's really helpful, especially since we're just
Speaker 2: starting out. Diversifying is a production of CNN Audio. Megan
Speaker 2: Marcus is our executive producer and Hailey Thomas is our
Speaker 2: senior producer. Our producers are Alex Stern, Kinsey Clark, and
Speaker 2: Madeline Thompson. Our associate producer is Cheri Satchel, and our
Speaker 2: production assistant is Eden getachew. Eduardo Ocampo is our intern.
Speaker 2: Mixing and sound design by Francisco Monroy. Artwork designed by
Speaker 2: Brett Urdock. Original music by Andrew eaven Our. Technical director
Speaker 2: is Dan Dezoula, with support from Chip Grabow, Steve Keel,
Speaker 2: Anissa Wells, Abby Fentrist Swanson, Tamika Balance, Kalosney Ashley Lusk,
Speaker 2: Lindsay Abrams, Raf Feno, Maud, Lisa Namro and Courtney Coop.
Speaker 2: I'm Delian Barrows. Thanks for listening.