1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Coal Zone Media. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 2: In the early morning hours of November twentieth, twenty thirteen, 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: Joseph Paul Franklin's luck ran out. After three decades in prison, 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 2: half of which he'd spent on death row. He spent 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: his final months in a flurry of appeals. There were, 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: after all, legitimate legal, ethical, and logistical questions about what 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: the State of Missouri was putting in that needle. On 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: the afternoon of November nineteenth, just hours before Franklin was 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: scheduled to die, a federal judge granted him a stay 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: of execution, ruling that the lawsuit over the drug cocktail 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: should be resolved first. The man who'd executed more than 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: twenty people seemed to have metaphorically at least dodged a bullet. 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: He was relieved. He spent that evening on the phone. 14 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: He talked to his lawyers, one of his sisters, and 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: an old friend. He didn't even bother ordering a last meal. 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: He wasn't going to die after all. As he lay 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: in his cot that night celebrating his good luck, a 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: small army of lawyers typed furiously exchanging filings in a 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 2: frantic legal battle that lasted all afternoon and laid into 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: the night. At one am, the Eighth Circuit Court of 21 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: Appeal was reversed. This stay the execution was back on. 22 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: At three am, they refused to reconsider. An hour later, 23 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 2: Franklin's attorneys got the issue into Justice Samuel Alito's hands. 24 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: A little after five am, the Supreme Court of the 25 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: United States declined to intervene, and that was it. There 26 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: was no one else to ask. Within minutes, Franklin was 27 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: led into the execution chamber. His opinion on the death 28 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: penalty had changed a few times over the years. At 29 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,399 Speaker 2: various points, he was quite vocal about wanting it. He'd 30 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 2: confessed to this crime in particular because he knew the 31 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: state of Missouri would kill him for it, and he 32 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: preferred that over the alternative. He'd been stabbed in prison 33 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: once before, and he told reporters that getting murdered by 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: some punks in jail was a dishonorable way to die. 35 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: He'd rather let the state do it. Franklin had once 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: lamented to a reporter that he wished they'd given him 37 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: the death penalty for those murders in Utah. He liked 38 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: the idea of going out by firing squad there's no 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: glory in quietly going to sleep like a sick dog. 40 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: He didn't say a word as he was trapped to 41 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: the gurney. He made no final statement, and there was 42 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 2: no one there to say goodbye. At six seventeen a m. 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 2: On November twentieth, twenty thirteen, ten minutes after being injected 44 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: with five grand as of penta barbital, Joseph Paul Franklin 45 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: was dead. Five months later, on his birthday, he killed again. 46 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger, and this is weird, little guys. I 47 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: realized something as I was procrastinating frantically this week. I 48 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: don't actually like writing about murder. It's an odd thing 49 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: to say. Two years into writing a true crime podcast 50 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: and a month into a series of episodes about a 51 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: serial killer. I write about murderers all the time, but 52 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: I don't think I've noticed before that I write myself 53 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: into a corner and then try to write myself the 54 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: long way around the block to avoid actually writing about 55 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: the murder. I once wrote two episodes about a murder suicide, 56 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: and I think there was about a paragraph that was 57 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: about the actual moment that a Holocaust Denisle blogger shot 58 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: and killed his ex wife. People die on this show 59 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 2: all the time, and I make a conscious effort to 60 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: avoid sensationalizing or exploiting their deaths for your entertainment. I 61 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: try to, even if it's just a single line, tell 62 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: you about the person they were before they died. I 63 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: don't like to spend a lot of time telling you 64 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: about their wounds and how they suffered, or how afraid 65 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: they were, or how they were tormented or degraded, or 66 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: god knows what else. I don't really like that. And 67 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: in this story, there are so many victims, so many 68 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: single lines to tell you, so I don't have to 69 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: tell you how they died. I read a hundred issues 70 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: of Nazi newspapers and tracked down a vintage issue of 71 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: Hustler so I could put off telling you about these murders. 72 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time trying to learn about them. 73 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: These people, Alphonse Manning and Tony Schenn in Madison, Wisconsin, 74 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: Gerald Gordon in Saint Louis, Johnny Brookshire in Atlanta, William 75 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: Tatum and Chattanooga, Johnny Noyce Junior and Jackson, Mississippi, Harold 76 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: mac Ivor and Doraville, Georgia, Raymond Turner in Falls Church, Virginia. 77 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: Jesse Taylor and Marion Bressette killed in front of their 78 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: three children in Oklahoma City. Mercedes Masters in Atlanta, Lawrence 79 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: Rehese and Leo Watkins in Indianapolis, Rebecca Bergstrom and Mill 80 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: Bluff State Park, Wisconsin. Darryl Lane and Dante Evans Brown 81 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: and Cincinnati, Arthur's Smothers and Kathleen mccoola in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, 82 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: Nancy Santa Mario and Vicki Durian in Bocahontas County, West Virginia. 83 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: Ted Fields and David Martin in Salt Lake City. Those 84 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: are the twenty two people we're quite sure that he killed. 85 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: I could tell you what the newspapers saw fit to 86 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: print about them. There wasn't always much, and it wasn't 87 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: always very nice. When cops arrive at a murder scene 88 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: and find no obvious motive, they shrug and they say 89 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: maybe it was a drug thing, maybe it was a 90 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: sex thing, or maybe they say nothing at all. When 91 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: the night manager at a burger king in northern Virginia 92 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: was killed by a bullet that came through the restaurant's 93 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: front window, there was just a passing mention two lines 94 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: in the newspaper about a twenty seven year old black 95 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: man who died for no reason at all. It isn't 96 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: even clear whether his name was Raymond Turner or Raymond Taylor. 97 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes these unsolved murders would get a follow up story 98 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: on the anniversary of their deaths, but cops don't like 99 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: talking about murders they can't solve, especially not the ones 100 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: they might not care that much about solving. Johnny Brookshire 101 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: was killed in front. 102 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: Of his wife. 103 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: Joy Williams survived, but was paralyzed from the waist down. 104 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: She was eight months pregnant, and Franklin shot her in 105 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: the stomach because her pregnancy was proof that the couple 106 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: was polluting the white race. The newspaper doesn't say what 107 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: happened to her baby. Alphonse Manning had only recently moved 108 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: to Wisconsin in search of more opportunities than a young 109 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: black man could find in Mississippi. He hadn't even told 110 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: his family about his new girlfriend yet. Gerald Gordon was 111 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: a paper salesman and a father of three. Harold mc 112 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: ivor wasn't even supposed to be working that night. He'd 113 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: only recently been promoted to management, so when he got 114 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: the call that the register was off. When his employees 115 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: went to lock up the taco bell, he crept quietly 116 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: out of the house so he would and wake his 117 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: two children. Mercedes Masters was only fifteen years old when 118 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: her killer picked her up hitchhiking and paid her for sex. 119 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: Dante Evans Brown and Daryl Lane were just thirteen and 120 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: fourteen years old when they snuck out of their grandmother's 121 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: house one night to buy candy at the corner store. 122 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: Dante had just graduated from middle school, and he spent 123 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: most of the ten dollars he got as a graduation 124 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: gift on a new light for his seven year old brother, 125 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: Levan's bike. Levon was too young to understand why the 126 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: top bunk in their bedroom was empty after that night, 127 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: Daryl didn't get to attend his middle school graduation. The 128 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: week of his funeral, his sister Linda attended a banquet 129 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: for student athletes at Crest Hills Middle School, and she 130 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: accepted a football trophy on his behalf. But their killer 131 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: didn't know any of that. He didn't know anything about them. 132 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: He was just shooting people at random, picking them off 133 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 2: with a sniper rifle from across the street without ever 134 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: getting a good look at their faces. He didn't need 135 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: to know anything about them. He could tell from a 136 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: hundred yards away that they were black, or that they 137 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: were race mixers. That was all that mattered. The only 138 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: victims he did admit to interacting with up close were 139 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: white women, women who revealed to him that at some 140 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: point in their pasts they'd slept with black men. But those, 141 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: those were the people he killed. And as we work 142 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: our way through the timeline, I don't think I'm going 143 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: to linger on the murders themselves. I spent a lot 144 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: of time taking notes on them, but I don't know 145 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: how useful it is to explain over and over again 146 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 2: that he was in some particular city, buying a gun 147 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: from a classified ad and staying at a motel under 148 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: a fake name, and at night he he drove around 149 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: looking for a target of opportunity. He wasn't a mastermind. 150 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: Who was a drifter. 151 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: He's not interesting or impressive or mysterious or crafty. He 152 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: wasn't clever or meticulous or brilliant. Who's messy, chaotic? 153 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: Who's a loser? 154 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: He was looking for big fish that he never caught. 155 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: Most of these victims were completely random, but he was 156 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 2: on a quest to make a name for himself by 157 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: killing someone important. He had two opportunities to do it. 158 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: He shot, but did not manage to kill hustler publisher 159 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: Larry Flint in nineteen seventy eight and civil rights attorney 160 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: Vernon Jordan in nineteen eighty. Vernon Jordan hadn't even been 161 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: his first choice. He was trying to find Jesse Jackson. 162 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: But as he was driving around Chicago looking for Jackson, 163 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: he got too scared of how many black people there 164 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: were in Chicago. He was a coward and a mediocre shot. 165 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: It's just not that hard to shoot people who don't 166 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: know you're aiming at them. But here I am talking 167 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: in circles again. The victims were random, But after weeks 168 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: of banging my head against the holes in this story, 169 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: I'm not sure his movements were. Let's go back to 170 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: my timeline. I've gotten a little bit out of order here, 171 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: so let's reorient. In nineteen seventy six, James Clayton Vaughan 172 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: Junior legally changed his name to Joseph Paul Franklin. He 173 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,239 Speaker 2: wanted to go to Rhodesia to serve as a mercenary, 174 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: but it didn't work out. He said he changed his mind, 175 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: but it might have been because the week he changed 176 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: his name, he was back in court for attacking an 177 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: interracial cup and this is the first definitive incident of 178 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: what would become his primary obsession. He didn't shoot or 179 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 2: kill this couple. He just chased them down in his 180 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: car and maced them. In December of nineteen seventy six, 181 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: he skipped down to avoid showing up to court for 182 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: this attack. He resurfaced a few months later back home 183 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: in Alabama, where he tried to join the Alabama National Guard. 184 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: I was skeptical when I read his claim that he'd 185 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: done this because he didn't remember very much about it, 186 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: like how long he was in the National Guard or 187 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 2: what month he did it. But this is actually confirmed. 188 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: Later reporting quotes a sergeant with the Alabama National Guard 189 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: who says records do show that Franklin was discharged for 190 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: failing to report for drill after a few months in 191 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: the Guard in early nineteen seventy seven. It's not entirely 192 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: clear why he joined. He doesn't really say. Maybe the 193 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: Alabama National Guard under Governor George Wallace was the closest 194 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: thing to the Rhodesian Army he could think of on 195 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: this side of the Atlantic Ocean. I don't know, he says. 196 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: He tried enlisting in the Marines first, but due to 197 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: that childhood accident that left him blind in one eye, 198 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: he wasn't eligible. He memorized an eye exam chart so 199 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: he could fake his way through the screening to join 200 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: the National Guard. Now, if I had to guess, he 201 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: probably wanted to join the military for the same reason 202 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: so many right wing extremists do even to this day. 203 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: He wanted the best training you can get. Nobody makes 204 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: killers like the United States military. A lot of this 205 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: lore manufactured later about his prowess as a sniper killer 206 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: makes it sound like he was preternaturally gifted with a 207 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 2: rifle or something most assuredly was not. There are two 208 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: separate incidents in his life where he accidentally discharged a 209 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 2: weapon into his own leg. And again, he's completely blind 210 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: in one eye and doesn't have great vision in the other, 211 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: so he probably wanted some marksmanship training. Stealing from the 212 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: armory was another very popular option, particularly among clansmen of 213 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: this era. To this day, there are more than a 214 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: few cases of neo Nazis stealing weaponry from the military. 215 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: In one of the early episodes of this show, I 216 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: talked about a relatively recent case of a Nazi gun 217 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: running ring that involved the theft of military equipment by 218 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: US Marines. In one of his confessions, Franklin does discuss 219 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: having purchased some of his guns from a guy who 220 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: was doing this, a guy he knew was stealing them 221 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: from the army, but he doesn't say much more than that, 222 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: at least not in the transcript I could find. And 223 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: there's no proof he ever got into the armory himself 224 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: during his brief stint to the National Guard. I'm just 225 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: saying he might have considered it had the opportunity presented itself. 226 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: But he wasn't in the National Guard for very long. 227 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: In the spring of nineteen seventy seven, he was arrested 228 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: in Alabama for illegally carrying a concealed firearm, something he'd 229 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: done before, and he went awall. He didn't show up 230 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: for court, he didn't show up for drill, and by 231 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen seventy seven he was on the road. 232 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: And we've talked about what was going on around him. 233 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy seven. Those Nazi newspapers he was probably 234 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: reading that were full of stories about men who were 235 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: killing for the movement. There were a lot of them 236 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven, Frederick Cowen, Ray Schultz, Kenneth Wilson. 237 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: These men all killed because they were Neo Nazis. They 238 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: killed black people and Jewish people, and they did it 239 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: with hate in their hearts. It was very clear, and 240 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: they were hailed as heroes in the newsletters written by 241 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: men that Franklin knew and respected. Last week, I left 242 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: you with a pretty wild insinuation. I implied that there 243 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: might be some sort of connection between Joseph Paul Franklin 244 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: and James Earl Ray, the man who assassinated Martin Luther 245 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: King Junior. Now I have to say I was being 246 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: a little dramatic. I'm not even going to argue there's 247 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: any direct connection between them, and I can't prove there 248 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: was any connection at all. Congress sure couldn't. They tried 249 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: to prove that there was a wider conspiracy to the 250 00:16:53,960 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: King assassination, and they couldn't. In the end, the official 251 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: story is that James Earl Ray acted alone. He was 252 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 2: a lone wolf that's what we've all agreed on. And 253 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: I'd hate to be called a conspiracy theorist, but we're 254 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: looking at the world that Franklin lived in in nineteen 255 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: seventy seven, what he was consuming, what he was surrounded by, 256 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: and in the summer of nineteen seventy seven, Congress was 257 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: asking questions. They had a lot of questions. They wanted 258 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: to hold a congressional inquiry so they could ask those 259 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: questions to people like James Earl Ray's brothers John and Jerry, 260 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 2: and National States Rights Party chairman J. B. 261 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: Stoner. 262 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: By nineteen seventy seven, Jerry Ray was no longer working 263 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: as J. B. Stoner's bodyguard, a job he'd held for 264 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: the first half of the decade, and John Ray was 265 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: serving a little bit of time in prison for bank robbery. 266 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 2: Members of the Congressional committee probing the King assassin nation 267 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: believed that the murder had been funded by one of 268 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 2: John Ray's bank robberies, that he robbed the banks. 269 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: We know. 270 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: Whether it was to fund his brother's assassination of Martin 271 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: Luther King was never satisfactorily proven. It remains in the 272 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: realm of conspiracy theory, and there's hardly a mention of 273 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 2: any of this in Franklin's biography. There's no indication that 274 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 2: he was focused on this developing story in the summer 275 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy seven, though his biographer does note several 276 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 2: times that JB. Stoner was one of Franklin's heroes, so 277 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 2: you might assume that he would have been paying close 278 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 2: attention to the mounting legal pressure Stoner was facing in 279 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen seventy seven, as this talk of 280 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: congressional hearings about the king assassination was intensifying. Alabama Attorney 281 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: General Bill Baxley was poised to make good on a 282 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: promise when he took office in nineteen seventy one. He 283 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 2: said he was going to reopen some old civil rights cases, 284 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: the kinds of cases that earned Birmingham the nickname Bombingham, 285 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: and he did. He tried. Right after he was sworn 286 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: in in nineteen seventy one, he reopened the case of 287 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty three bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. 288 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 2: In an oral history recorded in twenty sixteen, Baxley said 289 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: that the day he was sworn in, he was given 290 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: a whole stack of things, a badge and credentials and certificates, 291 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: just a mess of papers. And in that stack of 292 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: official papers, there was a wallet sized card with the 293 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: number for the switchboard operator in all of Alabama's major cities. 294 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: It was the kind of thing he would probably have 295 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: to pull out all the time, just in the course 296 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 2: of doing business. So on that card, the one he 297 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: knew he would see every day, he wrote one name 298 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: in each of the four corners, Adie May Collins, Cynthia Wesley, 299 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 2: Carol Robertson, and Carol Denise McNair, the four little girls 300 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: who were killed in that bombing. He wanted to be 301 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: reminded every day that it was his job to find 302 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 2: out who killed those little girls and prosecute them. The 303 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 2: problem was the FBI already knew who did it. They 304 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: knew all along. The FBI already knew who set off 305 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: most of those bombs in Alabama in the fifties and sixties. 306 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: There weren't ALWAYSBI fingerprints on the bombs themselves, but they 307 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: didn't have clean hands, so they held back records, They stonewalled, 308 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: they refused to share their records with the state's investigators. 309 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 2: And that's not just my commentary. Now based on what 310 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: we know fifty years later. When Baxley was interviewed for 311 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: an article in Penthouse in nineteen seventy seven, he said 312 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: the FBI started sharing some records with him in nineteen 313 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: seventy five after a reporter from the La Times threatened 314 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: to write a front page story about how the FBI 315 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: was protecting the bombers. But even after that, the FBI 316 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: was still denying him access to the agents who'd worked 317 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 2: those cases back in the sixties. Even in nineteen seventy seven, 318 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: Penthouse Magazine could see the obvious the FBI was withholding 319 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: evidence that showed they were involved in the bombings. 320 00:21:47,960 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: Until they didn't. 321 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: In June of nineteen seventy seven, the FBI suddenly started 322 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: taking Baxley's calls. The timing is remarkable. Baxley was primarily 323 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: interested in that nineteen sixty three Sixteenth Street Baptist Church bombing, 324 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: and there were rumors that JB. Stoner had been involved. 325 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: He hadn't actually done that one, they determined in the end, 326 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: but by pushing the investigation forward, the FBI gave Baxley 327 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: a reason to subpoena Stoner right around the time that 328 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 2: the federal government was really trying to put pressure on 329 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: Stoner in their Martin Luther King inquiry. It was convenient 330 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: to help the State of Alabama drag him in front 331 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 2: of a grand jury on an unrelated matter. Maybe, I mean, 332 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: it's an interesting coincidence. Baxley ended up indicting and eventually 333 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: convicting Stoner on a different bombing in Alabama. And in 334 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: the midst of all this, James Earl Ray escaped from prison. 335 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: He'd done it before, he killed Martin Luther King Junior 336 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 2: a year after his first prison break while he was 337 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: still on the run. But this time he was caught 338 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: within days. And like I said, maybe it's a coincidence 339 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: that Joseph Paul Franklin robbed his first bank that week. 340 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: Maybe it's a coincidence that he drove to Atlanta to 341 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: do it. I couldn't tell you what he was doing 342 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 2: back in Atlanta that summer, or why he returned to 343 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: Atlanta every few months throughout his three year Crimesbury, despite 344 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: having no connection to the Atlanta area aside from the 345 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 2: year and a half he spent living there working for JB. Stoner. Stoner, 346 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: of course, as we discussed last week, claimed he barely 347 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 2: knew the man. After the first bank robbery, Franklin used 348 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: the money to buy dynamite and an explosive material called tovex, 349 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 2: traveling to Tennessee and West Virginia to make separate purchases 350 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: under his birth name rather than his new legal name. 351 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: He never did quite say who taught him how to 352 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: make a bomb, so Ayton implies it was something he 353 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 2: learned during his time in the Klan. Honestly kind of 354 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: embarrassing for whoever it was, because the two bombs he 355 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: admits to setting off didn't even hurt anyone. At the 356 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: end of July, just a few days apart, he bombed 357 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 2: the Maryland home of Morris Amite, the executive director of 358 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: APAK and the Beth Shalom Synagogue in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Amite's 359 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 2: home was badly damaged, but the damage was mostly to 360 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: the ground floor. Amatee, his wife, and their three children 361 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: were all unhurt in their beds upstairs. The only victim 362 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: of the bombing was Ringo, a beagle puppy, who was 363 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: confined to the family room downstairs overnight. After failing to 364 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: kill any Jews in Maryland, on Monday, he drove to 365 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: Tennessee and set off a very similar bomb at an 366 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: Orthodox synagogue on Friday night, but he got the timing wrong. 367 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: Everyone had gone home by the time the bomb went off. 368 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: Beth Shalom Synagogue was destroyed. If anyone had been inside, 369 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: they certainly would have been killed. So the bomb worked. 370 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: It's the bomber that's the problem. Things just were not 371 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 2: going according to Blan Officially, the next place I can 372 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 2: pin him down on the timeline is in Colle Lumbus, Ohio, 373 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: on August second, four days after that bombing in Chattanooga. 374 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: He was definitely there on that date because he robbed 375 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: a bank there, but unofficially I think he went back 376 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 2: to Atlanta first years later. When he was finally on 377 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: trial for the synagogue bombing, there was some discussion of bombs. 378 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: That's to be expected. If I had all the time 379 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: in the world and access to all the records in 380 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: the world, which is actually my fondest dream, I would 381 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: love to track down a copy of that trial transcript, 382 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: the full appellate record, something anything that might explain a 383 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: very intriguing footnote in the Tennessee Supreme Court opinion that 384 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: upheld his conviction for the Chattanooga synagogue bombing. The court 385 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: notes that the bombing was motivated by his racist beliefs, 386 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: and the court can't just offer an opinion, so that 387 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 2: assertion is supported in a footnote, and the footnote briefly 388 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: lists some of his other known crimes. It reads, quote, 389 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: Defendant has roamed the United States, committing racially motivated murders 390 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: in Utah, planting a bomb in the house of an 391 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 2: Israeli lobbyist in Maryland, and robbing up to fifteen banks 392 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 2: to support his activities. He claims to have bombed the 393 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: Socialist Workers Party headquarters in Atlanta as well. Hang on 394 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: a second, backup, back up. The murders in Utah, I 395 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 2: know about. He was convicted for those twice, actually, but 396 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: we'll get to that. The Israeli lobbyist's house is the 397 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 2: one we just talked about. He was never actually charged 398 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: for that, but he did admit to having done it. 399 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: And the banks. Sure, I know about the bank robberies. 400 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: I got about a dozen of those on paper, and 401 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: there were a few others. But this is the first 402 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: and only time I'm hearing about another bombing. He must 403 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,479 Speaker 2: have admitted to that at some point, maybe during the trial, 404 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 2: or an interrogation or something was produced as evidence in 405 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 2: that trial. I don't know. He must have admitted to 406 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: that and nobody followed up on it. It was not 407 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: worth elaborating on because there are no specifics offered here 408 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: and I can't find this mentioned anywhere else. But a 409 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: bombing attempt fitting this description did happen. Someone placed a 410 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: pipe bomb in the Atlanta office of the Socialist Workers 411 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Party on August first, nineteen seventy seven. It malfunctioned and 412 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 2: didn't go off. The Mayor of Atlanta made a public 413 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: statement demanding a full investigation, but I don't see it 414 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: mentioned ever. Again, I don't think there's any evidence that 415 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: there was a full investigation here. Vince Egan, the Socialist 416 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: Workers Party candidate for mayor that year and the apparent 417 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: target of the bomb, said he didn't have a lot 418 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: of faith that the police were that interested, noting that 419 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: officials in Los Angeles failed to follow through on their 420 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: promise to find out who'd blown up the party's LA 421 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 2: office a few years earlier. Now, at the risk of 422 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: reintroducing too many old side characters, I think we do 423 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 2: know who committed both of these unsolved bombings. Both of 424 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: these bombings of Socialist Workers Party offices. We have Franklin 425 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: coppying to that one in Atlanta, and the bombing in 426 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: Los Angeles that was never investigated was something Joseph Tomasi 427 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: openly bragged about. He once told the Los Angeles Free 428 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: Press that quote, we know the cops don't care if 429 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 2: we bomb the left. He told a reporter that he 430 00:29:54,520 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: and his stormtroopers bombed that office. Now, tomas he is 431 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: another guy who definitely deserves his own episode, but for now, 432 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: he is someone that Franklin met at least twice. They 433 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: both attended their first NAZI conference in Virginia in nineteen 434 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: sixty nine, and by the time Franklin visited the National 435 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: Socialist White People's Party offices in Los Angeles in nineteen 436 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: seventy one, Tamasi was serving on the party's national council 437 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: and he was running the California chapter. The pattern that 438 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: I feel like is emerging here is that Joseph Paul 439 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: Franklin was a loser. He's desperate for approval. He wants 440 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: to belong, he doesn't want to be a lone wolf. 441 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 2: He wants to copy his heroes. He wants to be noticed. 442 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: He blew up a synagogue because that's what JB. Stoner 443 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: was famous for doing when he first got started. 444 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: In the movement. 445 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: He put a bomb in the Socialist Workers Party office 446 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: because that's what Joseph Tomasi bragged about doing. He says 447 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: he on a mission from God, but I think God 448 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: would have had newer material. He's just trying to impress 449 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 2: the other Nazis. So a week into this new career 450 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: as a terrorist, he's zero for three. The bomb in 451 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: Maryland killed a puppy, but no Jews. The bomb in 452 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 2: Tennessee didn't even destroy the Torah and no one was hurt. 453 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: Maybe he drove back to Atlanta for some guidance, maybe not. 454 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: Maybe he put that bomb in that office in Atlanta, 455 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: maybe not. But by August second, he's robbing that bank 456 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: in Columbus, Ohio. I spent a wasteful amount of time 457 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: trying to figure out his travel itinerary, plotting things on 458 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: a map, figuring out how many hours it would take 459 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 2: to drive from city to city. It seems random, I 460 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: mean as random as victims. There's no rhyme or reason. 461 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: He's just drifting around and shooting the unlucky enemies. Who 462 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: happened to cross in front of his rifle scope. Between 463 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: the end of July and the beginning of October nineteen 464 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: seventy seven, he drove from Maryland to Tennessee to Atlanta, 465 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: to Ohio, to Wisconsin, to Arkansas, to Dallas, to Oklahoma 466 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: to Saint Louis. And he doesn't have any reason to 467 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 2: be in any of those places. He wasn't working, he 468 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: didn't live anywhere, he wasn't in touch with his family. 469 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: He's just on the road. And I get that he 470 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: felt like he had to move from city to city 471 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: to avoid getting caught. He would leave town immediately after 472 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: committing a crime most of the time because he can't 473 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: arrestic guy's not there. But you don't need to drive 474 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: five hundred miles between crimes, and if you're just looking 475 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: for any old target, you don't have to go far. 476 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: But what if it wasn't random? After those failed bombings, 477 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: I think he was feeling frustrated. Remember last week, the 478 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: thing that set him off in the first place, the 479 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: thing that made him decide to start committing acts of violence, 480 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: was that interracial porn he saw in Hustler. So he 481 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: sets off a bomb in Maryland, July twenty fifth, a 482 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 2: bomb in Tennessee, July twenty ninth, a bomb in Atlanta. 483 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: On August first, what's he doing in Ohio? Now, just 484 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 2: a quick aside as I'm reading my script here. I 485 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: realize that might sound completely unrelated, but within his worldview, 486 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: it makes perfect sense to him to blow up a 487 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: synagogue because he's mad about pornography. It's a very common 488 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: belief for neo Nazis that pornography is a tool of 489 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 2: Jewish subversions. The fact that he is seeing this filthy 490 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 2: pornography is because of Jewish influence into society. So it 491 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't make sense to you. 492 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: But those things are related. He's mad about the pornography, 493 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 2: so he blew up a synagogue. Right, But again, it's 494 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: August second, and he's in Ohio. Why, well, he's robbing 495 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: a bank. That's what he did there. 496 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: We know that. 497 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: But that's where Larry Flint lived. Franklin spent a couple 498 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: of days in Columbus this week. When he was interviewed 499 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: by Ohio Prosecutor Melissa Powers. In the nineties, he admitted 500 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: that he went to Columbus twice while he was stalking 501 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 2: Larry Flint before he eventually shot him in March of 502 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight down in Georgia. So I think that's 503 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 2: what he's doing in these missing few days, right, So 504 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: at this point he hasn't killed yet. He's done those bombings, 505 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 2: but he hasn't committed his first murder. So I think 506 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 2: he's skulking around Columbus, Ohio, trying to find Larry Flint's 507 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: house and he doesn't get it done, so he has 508 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: to figure something else out. He's been trying so hard 509 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: to become a murderer and it isn't working. Maybe when 510 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 2: he was down in Atlanta he picked up some fresh 511 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 2: reading material the local paper, sure, but maybe he picked 512 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: up some Nazi newspapers, like the August issue of Attack, 513 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: the Nazi newsletter by William Luther Pierce. He was a 514 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 2: huge admirer of Pierce's everybody said so, his sister, the FBI, 515 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: his prison pen pals, the Law'll tell you he read 516 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,919 Speaker 2: Pierce's work religiously for years. And if he did read 517 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 2: that month's issue of Attack, he would have seen Pierce 518 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 2: implying that Archie Simonson, judge in Dane County, Wisconsin, was 519 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 2: an enemy of the white race who should be killed. 520 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 2: So after he couldn't find Larry Flint, he drove to Wisconsin. 521 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 2: He was on his way to shoot Archie Simonson when 522 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 2: he got sidetracked. His first murders were unplanned. 523 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: He panicked. 524 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: I ended the episode two weeks ago with a description 525 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 2: of this first murder. He shot and killed Alphons Manning 526 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 2: and Tony Schenn in the parking lot of a shopping 527 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 2: mall in Madison, Wisconsin, because he felt like they were 528 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,479 Speaker 2: driving too slowly and he was in a hurry to leave. 529 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 2: Franklin already had a documented history of attacking interracial couples, 530 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 2: so it seems obvious that that would have been his 531 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: primary motivation, and by most tellings, it certainly was. But 532 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 2: I read the transcript of his original confession the first 533 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 2: time he told this story, it's a little different. This 534 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: idea that he had to kill them because they were 535 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 2: an inter racial couple reads like more of a justification 536 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 2: after the fact than the actual primary motive. I wonder 537 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: if maybe he would have shot Alphonse Manning no matter 538 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: who he was, whether or not he had a white 539 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 2: girlfriend in the car with him. Franklin panicked because he 540 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 2: was getting into a screaming argument with this man, and 541 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 2: he had a car full of dynamite, a bag of 542 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 2: stolen cash, and a stolen gun on the front seat. 543 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: He was on his way to the judge's house. He 544 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: wanted to impress his heroes by killing that judge, and 545 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: he couldn't risk this guy ruining it by calling the 546 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 2: cops on him. I think it certainly increased the tension. 547 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 2: I think it made him angrier, made him more likely 548 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: to rise to the level of violence because he was 549 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 2: looking at a black man with a white girlfriend. That's 550 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: certainly a factor. I'm not saying that wasn't a factor here, 551 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 2: but I don't know that that was the primary motivation. 552 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 2: I think maybe the first one wasn't entirely ideological. It 553 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 2: was just blind luck that he freaked out and shot 554 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 2: the boogeyman from his nightmares. But now he knew how 555 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 2: good it felt. And as he fled the scene after 556 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: his first murder, all the traffic lights in his path 557 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: turned green as he approached them. He thought this was 558 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 2: a sign from God. God obviously approved of what he 559 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 2: was doing, because God was protecting him and helping him 560 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 2: get away. He didn't even bother trying to find that judge. 561 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 2: He'd clearly done what God wanted him to do, and 562 00:38:45,000 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 2: now he had to get out of Wisconsin. Sometime in August, 563 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 2: Joseph Paul Franklin got a tattoo in Chicago. He robbed 564 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 2: a bank in Little Rock in September, and he spent 565 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 2: a week hanging around Dallas for these pitstops. We do 566 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 2: have some proof, thanks mostly to a pair of detectives 567 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,399 Speaker 2: from the Madison, Wisconsin Police Department, for. 568 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: All his crimes. 569 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 2: Again, that's twenty two murders that we know of, committed 570 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 2: in twelve different states, sixteen bank robberies that he can remember, 571 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 2: an undetermined number of bombings, all over the course of 572 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 2: three years. The actual investigative legwork that shows up in 573 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 2: his FBI file was done by a pair of detectives 574 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 2: from the Madison, Wisconsin Police Department. When Franklin finally confessed 575 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four to those first two murders, it 576 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: was those detectives who chased down all of the details. 577 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 2: You know, it brings me no pleasure to say this. 578 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 2: These cops did their fucking job. I say that because 579 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 2: it's worth saying, because it's unusual as this story unravels, 580 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 2: you will see jurisdiction after jurisdiction decide not to. I mean, 581 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 2: they all dropped the ball. During the murders, a lot 582 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 2: of these were solvable. A lot of these cases did 583 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 2: not get investigated with a lot of gusto. But when 584 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 2: Franklin was in prison and he was actively confessing to 585 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: more crimes, making detailed, clear, provable confessions, a lot of 586 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 2: jurisdictions said, well, he's already locked up, so it's not 587 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 2: really our problem. 588 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: Is it. 589 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: It's not worth it. It would be so expensive to 590 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 2: get involved. It would be so embarrassing if we messed 591 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 2: this up and couldn't convict him. We know what he did, 592 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 2: and isn't that enough. But the in Dane County, Wisconsin, 593 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: so the nature of these crimes required a public reckoning 594 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 2: and a formal condemnation, saying, quote, we don't grant a 595 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 2: racist murderer immunity and impunity just because he's killed so 596 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 2: many other people and he's serving a lot of time. 597 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 2: And more importantly, they did the math. A lot of 598 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 2: these jurisdictions who were saying, well, he's already got life, 599 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 2: they were banking on the likelihood that you would misunderstand 600 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 2: that because life didn't mean life, and he would have 601 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: been eligible for parole, and Wisconsin wanted to make sure 602 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 2: that didn't happen. So when those detectives sat down with 603 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 2: Franklin for a few days in nineteen eighty four, they 604 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 2: recorded their conversation and then they started tracking down the proof. 605 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 2: They weren't just going to take its word for it. 606 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes people make stuff up because they're bored in prison. 607 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 2: Sometimes people recant their confessions. So they wanted to take 608 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: as many details from this confession as possible and tether 609 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: them to a corresponding, cold, hard fact. This isn't a 610 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 2: false confession, This isn't something he made up. They nailed 611 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 2: it to the wall. They found and interviewed the tattoo 612 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,760 Speaker 2: artist in Chicago, whose name Franklin couldn't remember. Seven years 613 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 2: after Franklin got that tattoo. They showed the artist a 614 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 2: photo and he said, yeah, that looks a little more 615 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,439 Speaker 2: than five years old, and that's my art. He still 616 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 2: had the stencil and he made a photo copy of 617 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,280 Speaker 2: it for the detectives. They tracked down those teenage girls 618 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: that Franklin picked up hitchhiking to the mall An hour 619 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: before the murders. Franklin told them he bought the car 620 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 2: he was driving that day from a class sassified ad 621 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,720 Speaker 2: in some Atlanta newspaper, maybe a month before the murders. 622 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 2: And so those detectives scanned through microfiche archives of Atlanta 623 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 2: area classified ads for the whole summer of nineteen seventy 624 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 2: seven until they found the ad, and they interviewed the 625 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 2: guy who sold him the car. Franklin told detectives that 626 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 2: the cowboy hat founded the scene of the murders had 627 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 2: been his. It blew off his head while he was 628 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 2: running back to the car after shooting Tony's Fenn. So 629 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 2: they tracked down the store clerk who sold it to 630 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 2: him and the factory that manufactured it. Witnesses picked him 631 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 2: out of photo lineups. Handwriting samples from hotel registration books 632 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 2: were matched to signatures on sales slips and car registrations. 633 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 2: I mean credit where credit is due. They did the 634 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 2: damn job. So a lot of the actual details we 635 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 2: have are only because Dane County, Wisconsin wanted to try 636 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 2: this case. So after those murders in Madison, he hung 637 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 2: around Chicago for little bit. He robbed a bake in Arkansas. 638 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 2: In Texas, he purchased a thirty six Remington rifle from 639 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 2: a classified ad and he hung around Dallas for a week. 640 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 2: According to his biographer, at this point, he still thought 641 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 2: the mission was going to be killing Jews. He'd gotten 642 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 2: a real kick out of killing that inter racial couple, sure, 643 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,759 Speaker 2: but Jewish people were still his top priority. That's what 644 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 2: he thought he was working on. And he says he 645 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 2: went to Oklahoma City because he was looking for a 646 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 2: synagogue to bomb. On the surface, that seems believable. He's 647 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 2: already bombed a synagogue, so there's no reason to think 648 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 2: this might not be true. And he still had some 649 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: dynamite on hand. 650 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 1: But here's the. 651 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: Thing, I'm not sure that was the plan. In one 652 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 2: of his confessions, he admits that he only had enough 653 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 2: dynamite left at that point to build a small car bomb. 654 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 2: He'd saved just enough after the first few bombings. Because 655 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 2: if he couldn't shoot that judge, who's going to put 656 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: a bomb under his car? And why did he go 657 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 2: to Texas to buy a hunting rifle If the plan 658 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 2: was to build more bombs. He had plenty of handguns. 659 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 2: Why did he need a rifle? And why didn't he 660 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 2: ever actually build another bomb? At least as far as 661 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 2: we know, I don't think he wanted to bomb another synagogue. 662 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 2: He sucked at that. That wasn't fun anymore. He tried 663 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,479 Speaker 2: it and it didn't work. But now now he'd shot 664 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 2: a man in the chest and then walked over to 665 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 2: a terrified, crying woman, looked her dead in the eye, 666 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 2: and fired at her. 667 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: And he liked it. 668 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 2: He would angrily deny that there was any sexual component 669 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 2: to his crimes, but Ohio Prosecutor Melissa didn't believe him. 670 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 2: She said he got very weird when the subject came up. 671 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 2: But he says he drove to Oklahoma City looking for 672 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 2: a synagogue. He drove around a little bit, and then 673 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 2: he changed his mind and he set off for Saint Louis. 674 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 2: He said he did this because he knew that Saint 675 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 2: Louis had a much larger Jewish population, And it does, 676 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 2: it did then too. But did he know that he 677 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 2: might have Saint Louis had one of the larger populations 678 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 2: of Jews that you were going to find that far south. 679 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 2: But if he knew that Saint Louis had a larger 680 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 2: Jewish population than most cities in the area, certainly more 681 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 2: than Oklahoma City. He's implying that he has some actual 682 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 2: knowledge of the number of Jews in both of those cities. 683 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 2: And if he knew how many Jews there were in Oklahoma, 684 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 2: he wouldn't have bothered driving there in the first place. 685 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 2: Based on old copies I found of texts like the 686 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 2: American Jewish Yearbook, the American Jewish Organization's Directory, in the 687 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 2: American Synagogue Directory, he would have been hard pressed to 688 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 2: find a synagogue to bomb in Oklahoma City in nineteen 689 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 2: seventy seven. The American Jewish Yearbook, published in nineteen seventy nine, 690 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 2: said that there were six thousand Jews in Oklahoma in 691 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, and about a third of them lived 692 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 2: in Oklahoma City in the surrounding suburbs. So there were 693 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 2: three synagogues in and around Oklahoma City. In the late seventies. 694 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 2: Jews made up zero point two percent of the population 695 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 2: of Oklahoma, So he was right. There were more Jews 696 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:56,479 Speaker 2: in Missouri, but he was already in Dallas, a city 697 00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,720 Speaker 2: with plenty of synagogues. Memphis was closer than Saint Louis. 698 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 2: He could have kept going just a little further to 699 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 2: Louisville or Chicago. He could have gone back to Maryland. 700 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,840 Speaker 2: If he was just looking for a synagogue, he had options. 701 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 2: I mean, Saint Louis wasn't an illogical choice, but it 702 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 2: wasn't the obvious choice or the only choice. I think 703 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,279 Speaker 2: he chose Saint Louis like he chose Madison. He read 704 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:34,320 Speaker 2: about it in one of his newspapers. Now, in that case, 705 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,720 Speaker 2: we have some substance to hold on to. Franklin admits 706 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 2: he was in Madison to find that judge, and he 707 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,439 Speaker 2: does at some point make a vague reference to having 708 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 2: read about Judge Simonson in a newspaper that he picked 709 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 2: up in Atlanta. This time, though, I'm guessing. I mean, 710 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 2: I'm completely untethered from proof. I just have a weird 711 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 2: feeling because I saw what feels like an impossible coincidence. 712 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 2: On the afternoon that Joseph Paul Franklin set up a 713 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 2: sniper's nest across the street from a synagogue in the 714 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,320 Speaker 2: Saint Louis suburb of Richmond Heights, there was a Nazi 715 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 2: rally going on fourteen miles away. The group that got 716 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,919 Speaker 2: into a brawl that afternoon outside the Florissance City Hall 717 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 2: was called the National Socialist Party of America. That's its 718 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,400 Speaker 2: official name. It was a splinter group formed by Frank 719 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 2: Colin after he got kicked out of the National Socialist 720 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 2: White People's Party in nineteen seventy and unfortunately, both of 721 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 2: these groups are usually referred to as the American Nazi Party, 722 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 2: despite that not being the official name of either group. 723 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 2: So that makes for some confusion when you read old newspapers, 724 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 2: but in the end doesn't make a lot of difference. 725 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,279 Speaker 2: That's what they were. There were weird little guys in 726 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 2: swastika arm bands, constantly at war with one another who 727 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 2: Hitler would be most proud of. And because the National 728 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 2: Socialist Party of America had been formed in a split 729 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 2: with the National Socialist White People's Party, there were a 730 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,359 Speaker 2: number of guys who at various points in time were 731 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 2: members of both groups. And the Saint Louis Unit leader, 732 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 2: a man named Michael Allen, had recently switched from the 733 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 2: National Socialist White People's Party to the National Socialist Party 734 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,280 Speaker 2: of America. He'd been the local Nazi leader even before 735 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 2: he switched allegiances. He was promoted to the head of 736 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 2: the local National Socialist White People's Party in nineteen seventy five, 737 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 2: after the last guy got kicked out for shooting somebody. 738 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 2: Not that it matters right now, but if you are 739 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 2: working on your red string board, that guy, the one 740 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,440 Speaker 2: who shot somebody in nineteen seventy five. He went on 741 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 2: to draw the pictures in the illustrated version of the 742 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 2: Turner Diaries. But we're not talking about Dennis Nicks right now. 743 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy seven, the local unit leader of 744 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 2: the National Socialist Party of America, a man named Michael Allen, 745 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 2: had been talking for months about this Nazi rally He's 746 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 2: going to hold in Fluorescent. He was in the newspaper, 747 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 2: the real newspaper, and the Nazi newspapers. You see, Frank 748 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:27,799 Speaker 2: Colin's little splinter group wasn't particularly big or very powerful, 749 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 2: but he'd found a way to make himself, oh, a 750 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 2: terrible nuisance. If the name sounds familiar to you at all, 751 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 2: or if there's some nagging familiarity you can't quite place 752 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,840 Speaker 2: to the name National Socialist Party of America, that's because 753 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,879 Speaker 2: you've probably heard of the nineteen seventy seven Supreme Court 754 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:55,560 Speaker 2: case National Socialist Party of America. The Village of Skogie, Illinois. 755 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 2: Colin is the guy who wanted to march Nazis through 756 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 2: a town in Illinois with an unusually high number of 757 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors. And in the summer of nineteen seventy seven, 758 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 2: they kind of won their case. The Supreme Court kicked 759 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 2: it back down to the Illinois Supreme Court and they 760 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 2: were going to be allowed to march in Skoky, but 761 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 2: Illinois could stop them from displaying swastikas. I mean, the 762 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,880 Speaker 2: legal battle continues from there, and eventually the Illinois Supreme 763 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 2: Court reversed that decision and ruled that the swastikas were 764 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,279 Speaker 2: protected by the First Amendment. But it's a mess, and 765 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 2: that's not what we're talking about, and they never actually 766 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,319 Speaker 2: marched in Skoky. But we're in the middle of this 767 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 2: battle right in the summer of nineteen seventy seven. Is 768 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,640 Speaker 2: still kind of up in the air. There's a lot 769 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 2: of uncertainty. They don't want to march without the swastikas 770 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 2: because that wouldn't be any fun. So they're making these 771 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 2: threats that in the fourth of July weekend they're gonna 772 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 2: march in Skoky, and then they kind of backed out 773 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 2: and they didn't do it. They never marched in Skoky, 774 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,319 Speaker 2: So the fourth of July weekend came and went, there 775 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,280 Speaker 2: was no showdown, so they had to find something else. 776 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,399 Speaker 2: They didn't want to look like cowards, and I think 777 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 2: that's why Saint Louis unit leader Michael Allen announced that 778 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 2: they were going to do a big march and Florescent. 779 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:22,080 Speaker 2: Why Florescent, Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I mean, it's 780 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 2: a medium sized suburb of Saint Louis, and like I said, 781 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 2: there's more Jews in Saint Louis than most cities in 782 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 2: the South. But Florescent isn't notably more Jewish than any 783 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,919 Speaker 2: other Saint Louis suburb, at least not that I could 784 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 2: discern from reading a bunch of old issues of the 785 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 2: Saint Louis Jewish Light, a local Jewish newspaper. But he 786 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,920 Speaker 2: picked Florescent, and he filed the paperwork for a demonstration 787 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 2: scheduled for October eighth, nineteen seventy seven. City officials denied 788 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 2: the application, stating that city ordinance prohibited the use of 789 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 2: city facilities for demonstrations by groups whose membership was not 790 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,440 Speaker 2: majority residents. And so for the next six weeks there 791 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:16,400 Speaker 2: was a lot of Bluster August September into October, Michael 792 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,920 Speaker 2: Allen is telling reporters, come hell or high water, the 793 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,640 Speaker 2: Nazis will rally in Fluorescent and National Socialist Party leader 794 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,080 Speaker 2: Frank Colin is scheduled to give the headline speech. The 795 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 2: boys are all going to be there, and the city 796 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,160 Speaker 2: warned them not to do it, and they loudly insisted 797 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 2: that they were absolutely going to do it. They never 798 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,319 Speaker 2: made it to Skokie, but maybe they could have a 799 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:44,359 Speaker 2: showdown in Missouri. I think ten of them showed up 800 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,280 Speaker 2: in the end, and Frank Colin got arrested for attacking 801 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:54,239 Speaker 2: the police chief. But a story for another day now. 802 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,720 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that Joseph Paul Franklin planned to attend 803 00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,360 Speaker 2: this rally. 804 00:54:59,440 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: He didn't. 805 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,839 Speaker 2: He couldn't have been there. He was already on his 806 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,360 Speaker 2: way out of town after committing a murder by the 807 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:07,839 Speaker 2: time the rally started. 808 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:08,320 Speaker 1: At two pm. 809 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 2: And if he had made contact with Michael Allen, I 810 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,840 Speaker 2: think Alan would have told us. I mean, he liked talking. 811 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,200 Speaker 2: He was beside himself with excitement when he recognized John 812 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,320 Speaker 2: Hinckley Junior in March of nineteen eighty one, after Hinckley 813 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,840 Speaker 2: shot Reagan. He was on the phone with a reporter 814 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 2: the very next day explaining that he'd met Hinckley in 815 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, but they had to kick him out 816 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,080 Speaker 2: of the National Socialist Party in nineteen seventy nine because 817 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 2: he was too weird. So I think if Michael Allen 818 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 2: had been hanging out with Josephaul Franklin, he would have 819 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,799 Speaker 2: said so. He would have loved to have said so. 820 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,560 Speaker 2: I don't think Joseph Paul Franklin was invited to Saint Louis, 821 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,480 Speaker 2: but this does kind of fit this emerging path. He's 822 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,880 Speaker 2: having this one way relationship mediated by these Nazi newsletters. 823 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,319 Speaker 2: He's reading about the movement, and he's trying to do 824 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 2: something that might impress the men whose newsletters he's reading. 825 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 2: If all the Nazis are fighting the Jews in Saint Louis, 826 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 2: he's going to go there and do it too, and 827 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 2: they'll see him, they'll see that he's participating. It's a 828 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:31,040 Speaker 2: little thin I know we're in guessing territory here. I 829 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 2: know that he read Willie Luther Pierce. 830 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 1: He told us that. 831 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 2: I know he read The Thunderbolt. We have proof that 832 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,879 Speaker 2: he used to sell it on Street corners. I can 833 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 2: confidently guess that he might have been reading Joseph Tomassi 834 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,240 Speaker 2: and James Mason, men that he met at that conference 835 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,719 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine and who he admired. But what's 836 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:59,000 Speaker 2: his connection to the National Socialist Party of America. It's 837 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:04,240 Speaker 2: a small, small world. There were never really a ton 838 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 2: of members of the National Socialist Party. Who was a 839 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,560 Speaker 2: splinter group led by an unpopular guy, and it only 840 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,920 Speaker 2: existed for a decade. For as much time as I've 841 00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 2: spent reading and writing about this whole millieu, if you 842 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,320 Speaker 2: asked me yesterday to name as many members of the 843 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,240 Speaker 2: NSPA as I could, I would probably only be able 844 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,560 Speaker 2: to come up with like three names after its founder, 845 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 2: Frank Colin and Harold Covington, the guy who later reported 846 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,160 Speaker 2: Colin to the police for child molestation and then wrested 847 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,120 Speaker 2: control of the party. I can only think of one 848 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:48,800 Speaker 2: other guy, Frasier Glenn. Miller never actually said that he 849 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:55,200 Speaker 2: knew Franklin in person. He never denies it, though they 850 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 2: both joined the National States Rights Party in nineteen seventy four, 851 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,120 Speaker 2: and by the time England started killing, Miller had moved 852 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,920 Speaker 2: on and he was a prominent member of the National 853 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 2: Socialist Party in North Carolina. And for all the reading 854 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 2: I did while I was researching this story, all the 855 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,200 Speaker 2: newspapers I picked, through, all the descriptions of murder I read, 856 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:22,040 Speaker 2: nothing made me feel quite so sick as the Nazi 857 00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 2: forum posts that Miller wrote about his friendship with Franklin. 858 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,160 Speaker 2: It was that murder in Saint Louis that sent Franklin 859 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 2: to the execution chamber in Missouri in twenty thirteen. The 860 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,920 Speaker 2: night before he died, he had a long conversation with 861 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 2: his sister, He talked to his lawyers, and he called 862 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:49,120 Speaker 2: his last best friend, a man whose interest in Franklin's 863 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,439 Speaker 2: crimes had deepened into an obsession in the last few 864 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:57,840 Speaker 2: years of Franklin's life. Mary deep in those forum threads, 865 00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:04,360 Speaker 2: over years of mouth preoccupation with preserving Franklin's legacy, you 866 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,880 Speaker 2: can read a little defensiveness. If you love the idea 867 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,760 Speaker 2: of mass murder so much, why don't you just do it? 868 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,080 Speaker 2: Are you a coward? Glenn, a hypocrite, a poser. People 869 00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,000 Speaker 2: asked him that sometimes, and he could safely admit that 870 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,640 Speaker 2: he'd been involved in a few murders in his past. 871 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:27,720 Speaker 2: But he didn't really have an answer to this challenge, 872 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 2: not until a few months after Franklin's death, anyway. One 873 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,120 Speaker 2: of the other posters on the forum recognized Miller right 874 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,000 Speaker 2: away when he was arrested a few months later for 875 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:43,400 Speaker 2: opening fire on a Jewish community center in Kansas. I 876 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,800 Speaker 2: read a little bit about Miller and other contexts over 877 00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,080 Speaker 2: the years, so I was familiar with these shootings, and 878 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,520 Speaker 2: I always thought it was so strange that he chose 879 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:57,680 Speaker 2: April thirteenth to commit mass murder. I mean, a guy 880 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,400 Speaker 2: like that, surely he could have waited week to do 881 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,800 Speaker 2: it on Hitler's birthday. Guys like that love Hitler's birthday. 882 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:12,600 Speaker 2: But April thirteenth was Joseph Paul Franklin's birthday. If he 883 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,560 Speaker 2: hadn't been executed by the State of Missouri five months earlier, 884 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 2: Joseph Paul Franklin would have turned sixty four the day 885 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:39,919 Speaker 2: his only friend murdered three people for him. Weird Little 886 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,240 Speaker 2: Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. 887 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 2: It's research, written, and recorded by me, Molly Conker. Our 888 01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,960 Speaker 2: executive producers are Sophi Letterman and Robert Evans. 889 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:49,480 Speaker 1: The show is edited by. 890 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,320 Speaker 2: The wildly talented Mary Gagan that theme music was composed 891 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,919 Speaker 2: by Brad Dickert. You can email me at Riddle Guys 892 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,360 Speaker 2: Podcast gmail dot com. I will definitely read it, but 893 01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 2: I probably won't answer. It's nothing personal. You can exchange 894 01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,720 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners on the 895 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,680 Speaker 2: Weird Little Guys subreddit. Just don't post anything that's going 896 01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,200 Speaker 2: to make you want to mind Weird Little Guys