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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 2: Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed, we do lots of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four news to get into this morning. We've

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Speaker 1: got a war over wokeness in the Republican primary that

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Speaker 1: nobody's sort of expected between Trump and Desantists will tell

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Speaker 1: you about that. We've also got the debate over the debates,

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Speaker 1: both on the Republican side and on the Democratic side.

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Speaker 1: And RFK Junior gets a bit and very prominent endorsement.

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Speaker 1: YouTube is actually changing their misinformation policy with regard to

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Speaker 1: election misinformation. We also have a big decision from the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court that could hurt workers and their right to strike.

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Speaker 1: So we'll break down all of those details for you.

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Speaker 1: In addition, I know this is going to be huge

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Speaker 1: news for our viewing audience. Chuck Todd out at Meet

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Speaker 1: the Press. Kristen Welker is going to be the host

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Speaker 1: of that long running Sunday show, So we'll tell you

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Speaker 1: about that and what the plans are there. I'll so

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Speaker 1: excited about a guest on just how much military industrial

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Speaker 1: complex money is going to all of the analysts that

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Speaker 1: you're hearing on the Ukraine War. You perhaps it won't

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Speaker 1: be surprised, but still important to dig into all of

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Speaker 1: those details. But before we get to that saga, why

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Speaker 1: are we not in our normal studio?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're not in our normal studio because it doesn't

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Speaker 2: exist anymore. We are currently at home. The studio is

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Speaker 2: being ripped apart, renovated, being completely reborn into a brand

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Speaker 2: new iteration of which I think everyone will be very excited.

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Speaker 2: It's the very last week you all have to hear

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Speaker 2: us talk about how nice it is. You can judge

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Speaker 2: it for all of yourselves. I want to say thank

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Speaker 2: you to all the premium members who are making it possible,

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Speaker 2: who are signing up, and just to make it clear,

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Speaker 2: we are going to have a very very special announcement.

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Speaker 2: Our premium subscribers will have the first look at the

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Speaker 2: set substantially before anybody else in debuts next week. So

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Speaker 2: if you want to see the set firsthand, and if

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Speaker 2: you really want to help pay for it, because it

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Speaker 2: was the biggest expense in the history of Breaking Points,

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Speaker 2: it's breakingpoints dot com where you can help us out.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so the old set has gone into a cocoon

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Speaker 1: and it will emerge next week as a beautiful butterfly.

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Speaker 2: That's that's exactly right. We still have got a great

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Speaker 2: show though for everybody. We're going to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we have all of the normal content that you are

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Speaker 2: used to. So let's start here with the woke war

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Speaker 2: of words. President Trump actually kind of surprising people in

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Speaker 2: the campaign whenever he came out and attacked DeSantis apparently

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Speaker 2: for always using the term woke in his campaign. Here's

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Speaker 2: what Trump had to say.

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Speaker 3: It's gotten sick. And I don't like the term woke

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Speaker 3: because I hear woke, woke, woke. You know, it's like

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Speaker 3: just a term that use. Half the people can't even

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Speaker 3: define it. They don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, a little bit of a Bethany Vandell moment there

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Speaker 2: are going for President Trump says, half the people can't

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Speaker 2: even define it. I don't like hearing it over and

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Speaker 2: over again. It's interesting always to me because Trump always

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Speaker 2: hones in on something which is someone's political vulnerability, but

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Speaker 2: which other Republicans refuse to say that said. DeSantis also

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Speaker 2: had his response. So Christal, we'll talk about the fulsome

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Speaker 2: nature of this woke war of words after we hear it.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to what Dessanta said.

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Speaker 4: Wolke is an existential threat to our society. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's an attack on truth. It's a form of cultural Marxism,

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Speaker 4: and it really subordinates merit and achievement to things like

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Speaker 4: identity politics. You can't have a vibrant, free society of

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Speaker 4: every institution is dominated by wolk ideology. And to say

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Speaker 4: it's not a big deal, that just shows you, know,

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Speaker 4: you don't understand what a lot of these issues are

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Speaker 4: right now.

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Speaker 2: Woke is an existential threat to the country. You shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be running if you don't understand it. It shows a

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Speaker 2: mismatching judgment. Trump saying woke, woke, woke, nobody can even

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Speaker 2: define it. What did you make of all of this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting to me. I'm always a little

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Speaker 1: bit leery of offering my assessment of exactly what the

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Speaker 1: Republican base might think about this, because I'm not a

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Speaker 1: part of the Republican base, but it seems likely to

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Speaker 1: me that this reflects a bit of the class split

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Speaker 1: between the DeSantis and Trump base. So, you know, Trump

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Speaker 1: is very much and always has been sort of attuned

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Speaker 1: to what a working class GOP aligned or GOP interested,

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Speaker 1: or more like sort of working class independent base, what

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Speaker 1: they might be feeling. DeSantis has already proven that he

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Speaker 1: has much stronger support among the college educated portion of

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Speaker 1: the Republican base, So I don't know. My instinct is

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Speaker 1: that Trump kind of has his finger on the pulse

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Speaker 1: of the way people are starting to feel about this

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Speaker 1: word which is so wildly overused, which you know, originally,

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Speaker 1: I think there was a usefulness to talking about a

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Speaker 1: pushback to the you know, political correctness and the cancel

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Speaker 1: culture and the authoritarian tendencies of liberals and left liberals.

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Speaker 1: But now when you're talking about like the problem with

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Speaker 1: the military is that it's woke, the problem with bank

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Speaker 1: bail ounce, or that they're woke, the thing just loses

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Speaker 1: all meaning and collapses into you know, nothingness, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people in the country are probably

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Speaker 1: it's done to that, including a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: the Republican base who are like, this doesn't really connect

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Speaker 1: to me in my life and the things that I'm

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Speaker 1: actually concerned about in terms of putting food on the table.

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Speaker 2: I'm of two minds. So on one hand, I actually

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Speaker 2: saw a recent poll was said that the number one

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Speaker 2: issue for Republican voters is going after what they see

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Speaker 2: as and they didn't use the term woke in the poll,

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Speaker 2: but they basically just said cultural left tendency, specifically by

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Speaker 2: corporations and through the broader culture. So that's one thing.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know, Trump, I think

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Speaker 2: one of his geniuses. What you're identifying is you're right,

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Speaker 2: which is that the most activist part of the Republican

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Speaker 2: base whenever it comes to wokeness, you know, corporations and

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Speaker 2: all of that, it really is more of a highly educated,

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Speaker 2: more of a conservative you know, who went to college,

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Speaker 2: which again, you know, it's not actually very typical for

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Speaker 2: not only the median voter in the United States, but

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Speaker 2: even for the person who is in the GOP primary,

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Speaker 2: so they might identify and see it as something else.

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Speaker 2: And I think it gets to what Trump's attack on

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Speaker 2: Desanta's is, where he's always trying to go after him

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Speaker 2: for saying that he's empty, that he's a lightweight, and

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Speaker 2: that is where it is connecting. I genuinely don't know

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Speaker 2: how it will land because at the same time, like

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Speaker 2: we said, it is a word almost drummed into the

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Speaker 2: political consciousness at this point of every American class, status

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Speaker 2: or not. And I do think it is also interesting

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Speaker 2: from a different angle, which is whenever you think about

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Speaker 2: Trump and his political genius, what he's able to connect to.

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Speaker 2: He does not necessarily go after wokeness. He always goes

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Speaker 2: after discrete issues. And actually that's kind of what we

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Speaker 2: always try to do here. We very rarely use the

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Speaker 2: term woke. I may use it, you know, every once

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Speaker 2: in a while, but more than often or not. Like

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Speaker 2: affirmative action, we're not describing that as woke. We're just like,

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Speaker 2: affirmative action is bad, and then like we'll go through

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Speaker 2: the exact discrete nature. If you want to talk about

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Speaker 2: the military, I mean, whenever people say the military is woke,

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Speaker 2: it's like, well, what are you objecting to you're objecting

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Speaker 2: to General Millie, you know, citing critical race theory before

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Speaker 2: Congress and then diversity equity an inclusion initiative. So once

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Speaker 2: again attack things that are discrete and trying to think

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Speaker 2: of some all encompassing term that becomes meaningless because then

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Speaker 2: you end up just in the situation that you describe Chrystal,

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Speaker 2: where bailing out SVB is woke. It could just be bad,

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Speaker 2: you know, like we could just say things are bad

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Speaker 2: and you could talk about things from that nature.

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Speaker 1: Right, But it's I mean, I've always felt this that

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Speaker 1: I've articulated this on the show a number of times,

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Speaker 1: like the use of wokeness to describe things that conservatives

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Speaker 1: like Ron DeSantis don't like. Uh, we saw this, you know.

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Speaker 1: The first time we really got a sort of clear

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Speaker 1: example of this is when Marco Rubio said, Hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna support the Amazon workers down in Bessemer.

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Speaker 1: Not because we need a general pushback against corporate power,

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Speaker 1: not because in general I think workers should have a

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Speaker 1: union so that they have some power within their workplace,

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Speaker 1: but because of the discrete, woke HR policies that happen

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Speaker 1: to exist at Amazon. So it's a way to be

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Speaker 1: very selective about your critique of corporate power without actually

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Speaker 1: really challenging corporate power the structures that enables it. So

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Speaker 1: it's been very convenient, but it also speaks to you know,

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Speaker 1: DeSantis in his launch, even putting the tech glitches aside

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Speaker 1: and all of that stuff, the language that he has

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Speaker 1: adopted and that he uses is in his media appearances,

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Speaker 1: that he even uses in a stump speech, is so

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Speaker 1: online and so inaccessible. It's the polar opposite of the

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Speaker 1: way that Trump speaks. I remember when he first ran

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, they were all these analyzes that were

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Speaker 1: supposed to be damning to Trump about how he speaks

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Speaker 1: at like a third grade or a fourth grade level

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But actually he's an effective communicator, maybe an

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Speaker 1: unconventional communicator, but a very effective communicator because he boils

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Speaker 1: things down, he makes them simple, and he uses language

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Speaker 1: that is very accessible to absolutely everyone. DeSantis is on

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Speaker 1: the polar end of that spectrum. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not like Trump and DeSantis are really different from a

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Speaker 1: policy level on the basket of issues you may consider woke.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think state that very same day Trump

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Speaker 1: was also talking about the woke military or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: their communication styles are obviously wildly different. The issues set

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Speaker 1: that they choose to spend the most of their time on,

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Speaker 1: where that are sort of very clear passion projects, are

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Speaker 1: also very different. We noted Sager that in Trump's announcement speech,

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Speaker 1: if he mentioned transgender issues at all, it was you know,

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Speaker 1: it was very scarce. Abortion wasn't there at all. So

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Speaker 1: the set of issues that Trump leans into and clearly

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Speaker 1: has an actual like interest in and passion for, very

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Speaker 1: different from the set of issues that Ron DeSantis has

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Speaker 1: used to become a national figure within the Conservative Party.

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Speaker 2: Smart I completely agree. They're also sparring on the vaccine.

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Speaker 2: This was a fascinating one act actually to watch because

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Speaker 2: Trump has been hearing some pushback from even people who

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Speaker 2: are attending his rallies on the vaccine, and it's leading

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Speaker 2: to a war of words about who supported the vaccine

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Speaker 2: but then didn't support the vaccine and then was pro

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Speaker 2: mandate and then re litigating also whether the Trump lockdown

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Speaker 2: strategy was his fault or Fauci's fault. And this has

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Speaker 2: actually become a major core contention between DeSantis and between

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Speaker 2: Trump is specifically their records on COVID. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen, because this

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Speaker 2: kind of gets to it and why I think it

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Speaker 2: is going to be difficult for him overall. Ay, there

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Speaker 2: was no bump currently for DeSantis from the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four launch as Trump continues to climb even though DeSantis,

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Speaker 2: as I have noted here, has continued his attacks on Trump,

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Speaker 2: specifically on the vaccine. He has and I've given him

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Speaker 2: credit here for it, has you know, very taken up

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Speaker 2: an aggressive posture where he's calling out Trump by name,

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Speaker 2: responding to the attacks, trying to make himself become the

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Speaker 2: formidable and only challenger to Trump, willing to actually rhetorically

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Speaker 2: spar with him. But on the vaccine itself, this shows

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Speaker 2: you a little bit about why it's going to be

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Speaker 2: so difficult for him. You know, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: put this up on the screen, guys from CNN. This

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Speaker 2: is from Andrew Kosinski where he shows you know, Ron

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Speaker 2: DeSantis actually praised Anthony Faunci for COVID response in spring

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty for quote really doing a good job. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying this is a hit piece on DeSantis.

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Speaker 2: There's no question that he obviously departed from that. What

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Speaker 2: I am saying and trying to show people here is

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Speaker 2: that trying to re litigate a moment in time three

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Speaker 2: years ago is going to be very difficult and dicey,

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Speaker 2: especially because all Trump has to say, Crystal is he

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Speaker 2: praised my response at the time. He departed from it

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Speaker 2: a little bit later on. But also he you know,

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Speaker 2: was kissing my ass and these endorsement videos, uh defending

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Speaker 2: me on television. There really was no split between the

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Speaker 2: two until basically after Trump had gone ahead and left

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Speaker 2: the White House. And so that is why I've always

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Speaker 2: believed that DeSantis best line is the one he actually

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Speaker 2: used recently. He said, you know, they were asking about

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Speaker 2: how do you pronounce my name? Is it DeSantis or DeSantis?

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Speaker 2: He said, the way that you just say it is winner.

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Speaker 2: I'm the winner. I'm the one who has actually won

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Speaker 2: recently in this race. It's a forward looking and it's

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Speaker 2: more a positive one that not only primary voters could

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Speaker 2: connect to you, but people across the country could connect

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Speaker 2: to But then he run into the Gordian knot of Trump,

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Speaker 2: who Republicans don't believe actually lost at all. They do

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Speaker 2: think he is a winner. Maybe Desanti is just a

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Speaker 2: bigger winner. So yeah, look, it's funny. It's a hard situation.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to me. You liked that line that Dessanta's

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Speaker 1: it's not or DeSantis it's a winner. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was really terrible. I thought it was Oh, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was so cringey. But anyway, again, I'm not the

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Speaker 1: audience for it, so listen on the COVID stuff. I

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Speaker 1: think DeSantis I really thought this was going to be

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Speaker 1: his in and his avenue of attack on Trump. He

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Speaker 1: thought this would be the way that he could separate himself.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it was a year ago, a major

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Speaker 1: energizing issue for the Republican base, and I think he's

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Speaker 1: having trouble letting that go even though people have moved on,

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Speaker 1: Like it's just not the energizing issue for anyone that

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Speaker 1: it was at one time. So yeah, they can go

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Speaker 1: back and forth this war of words. Honestly, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of I think it's kind of like wasted time for

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Speaker 1: both of them at this point. I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing is, you know, Trump just gets away with stuff

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Speaker 1: that other politicians can't get away with. So if another

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Speaker 1: politician had kept Anthony Fauci on that might be devastating

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Speaker 1: for them. Somehow Trump just gets away with these things.

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Speaker 1: So personally, I don't think that this is going to

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Speaker 1: be you know, the winning issue that Ron DeSantis wants

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Speaker 1: it to be. Also, because Trump is able as he

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Speaker 1: this is what he's so good at. He muddies the waters.

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Speaker 1: You know, he'll be He'll be using the video of

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Speaker 1: DeSantis praising him over and over again and kissing his butt.

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Speaker 1: That's one way to muddy the waters. Another way is

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Speaker 1: to point out these areas where you know, DeSantis agreed

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Speaker 1: with like the COVID conventional wisdom of the time. So

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Speaker 1: I think ultimately this Wassue issue was probably a wash

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Speaker 1: for both of them, and you know, uh not the

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Speaker 1: ground that the GOP primary is going to be fought on.

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Speaker 2: Trump also, you know, displayed his you know skill, I

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Speaker 2: guess in this He's like, look, I never supported the mandates,

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Speaker 2: but I created the vaccine and it was great and

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Speaker 2: you know, actually correctly noting that over seventy five percent

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Speaker 2: of Americans did actually receive at least one dose Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in the vaccine. Well, I say, before we part, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so on that, you know, the other as you're

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Speaker 1: pointing to the big argument in favor of Ron DeSantis

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Speaker 1: that his donors really point to and respond to is

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Speaker 1: that he's electable. He's more electable than Trump, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he may be in the right place with regard to

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Speaker 1: to vaccines and sort of like hinting at vaccine skepticism

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Speaker 1: or anti vaxxism within the Republican primary. It's not a

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Speaker 1: popular position to be in for a general election. As

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Speaker 1: you're pointing out, overwhelming majority of Americans got a vaccine,

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Speaker 1: and overwhelming majority of them were happy with that decision

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Speaker 1: and feel like the vaccines did something. You know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't everything that was promised, but helped reduce the risk

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Speaker 1: that they would be severely ill or hospitalized or dead

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Speaker 1: from COVID. So this is another issue where I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump can get away with the more moderate

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Speaker 1: position in the primary, and it actually gives him a

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Speaker 1: stronger case that he's the more electable candidate in the

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Speaker 1: fall and a stronger reality that he may be a

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Speaker 1: more electable candidate in the fall.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's what he had to say, Jeh, for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Everybody wanted a vaccine at that time, and I was

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Speaker 3: able to do something that nobody else could have done,

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Speaker 3: getting it done very, very rapidly. But I never was

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Speaker 3: for mandates. I was I thought the mandates were terrible.

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Speaker 3: And you know, there's a big portion of the country

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Speaker 3: that thinks that was a great thing. You understand that

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Speaker 3: not a lot of the people in this room, but

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Speaker 3: there's a big but there is a big portion.

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Speaker 2: Well he's explaining it, and you know, I've always actually

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Speaker 2: thought that, especially even amongst the republic voters, people sixty

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Speaker 2: five plaus were overwhelmingly likely to get the vaccine. So

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Speaker 2: you know, it's one of those where I genuinely don't know.

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Speaker 2: I personally am not inclined to believe, based upon all

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Speaker 2: the polling that currently exists, that COVID is going to

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Speaker 2: be the number one issue in the primary. People are

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Speaker 2: always generally forward looking whenever it does come to elections,

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Speaker 2: and especially whenever it comes to switching candidates. They always

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Speaker 2: want to see a contrast about the future. It's yes,

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Speaker 2: of course, the future is determined by what people have

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Speaker 2: done in the past. But that's why I continue to

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Speaker 2: think that DeSantis's best option is leaning into being a winner.

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Speaker 2: The economic boom of Florida, the net in migration, turning

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Speaker 2: America into all of that now, whether it's cringey on

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Speaker 2: the winner line or not. I mean, I think what

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Speaker 2: I'm baking in is I just don't think he's all

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Speaker 2: that politically talented as a speaker, and Trump is Trump

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Speaker 2: is compelling, and you know, and this is one of

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Speaker 2: those factor things of which we can go back and

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Speaker 2: forth all the time, and the country, you know, goes

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Speaker 2: back and forth between whether they want somebody like Obama,

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Speaker 2: the ultimate eloquent speaker, and then somebody like George W. Bush,

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Speaker 2: you could barely string a sentence together. So it's one

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Speaker 2: of those I just never know what mood the overall

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Speaker 2: electorate is in. Do they want somebody's kind of whiny,

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Speaker 2: not all that politically talented, but you know, can speak

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Speaker 2: cogently in a sentence, or do they want to see

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Speaker 2: the show whenever it comes to Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Bush famously even had the like relatability, like

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Speaker 1: even though he's this totally unrelatable plutocrite, you know, born

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Speaker 1: into a political dynasty family, he had that you want

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Speaker 1: to drink a beer with him vibe like that was

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Speaker 1: always the famous thing about him that people responded to

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Speaker 1: Biden for, you know, all of his agedness and feebleness

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Speaker 1: at that point. I mean he has a little bit

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Speaker 1: of that as well, where people felt like, ah, this

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Speaker 1: is somebody that I sort of relate to, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he was always good at sharing empathy with people when

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Speaker 1: they were going through very difficult times. I think the

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Speaker 1: part of the problem for him is he's lost a

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Speaker 1: little bit of that. Now people are seeing less of

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Speaker 1: that in him. That's kind of the core of his appeal.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know that DeSantis has either the like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the eloquence of Obama or Bill Clinton either

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Speaker 1: or the really compelling speaking style of like a Trump

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Speaker 1: or a George W. Bush who was also to sort

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Speaker 1: of boil things down and make them relatable. I also

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Speaker 1: just to go back for a minute to the piece

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Speaker 1: we put up about how he didn't get a poll

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Speaker 1: bump from his launch. It's kind of devastating. I mean

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Speaker 1: he really needed that, you know, like it's a big problem,

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Speaker 1: and whether that's because of the tech glitches or the

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Speaker 1: content of the launch or the way the media cover whatever,

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Speaker 1: it's a huge missed opportunity for him. Even Niki Hiley

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Speaker 1: got a bump from her launch, and you know, did

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Speaker 1: a very conventional rollout. Sometimes there's no reason to reinvent

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Speaker 1: the wheel, and you know, maybe it doesn't matter because

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Speaker 1: a lot of times those those initial launch bumps fade anyway.

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Speaker 1: But that was really the moment when he needed to

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Speaker 1: prove like, Okay, now that I'm in the race, things

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Speaker 1: are going to be different, and he wasn't able to

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Speaker 1: pull that off. And I think it shows some weaknesses

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Speaker 1: in terms of the type of judgment that he makes

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Speaker 1: and the type the part of the GOP base that

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Speaker 1: he's super responsive to that's not necessarily reflective of the

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Speaker 1: larger GOP base. So there are some, to me, some

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Speaker 1: real warning signs in the fact that that launch went

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Speaker 1: so poorly that he didn't get any kind of benefit

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Speaker 1: from the polls and from having all of the media.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's not going to be that many times

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Speaker 1: for Rondasantis when all of the media is focused on him,

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Speaker 1: just given the show that Trump creates and the looming

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Speaker 1: indictments and all of that stuff. So when you have

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Speaker 1: those moments, you really can't afford to squander him and them,

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Speaker 1: and he definitely did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go to the next one because this is important.

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Speaker 2: It kind of gets to that about the energy around

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Speaker 2: the Santas, Let's go and put this up there on

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Speaker 2: the screen, which actually shows that the Desanta's campaign, through

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Speaker 2: the new disclosures, had forty thousand donors in the month

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Speaker 2: of May. So that means that the campaign relied very

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Speaker 2: heavily on big donors. For its eight point two million

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Speaker 2: dollar one day they had an average donation of two

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars plus, which is colossal, as he says. For comparison,

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Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders had a twenty six dollars average per donation

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Speaker 2: whenever it comes to day one. That figure, just for

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Speaker 2: people who understand again, two hundred dollars is much much

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Speaker 2: more than the typical grassroots support. This is actually something

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Speaker 2: that we used to see a lot in our early

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Speaker 2: analysis of the Democratic primary whenever it came to candidates

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Speaker 2: like Corey Booker or Elizabeth Warren, people who had connections

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Speaker 2: or better ones to big donors. And what it matters

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Speaker 2: and why is that, you know? Whenever it comes to Trump,

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Speaker 2: Trump has always been a absolute fundraising juggernaut and he

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Speaker 2: actually would often match Bernie Sanders whenever it comes to

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Speaker 2: his math In twenty twenty for the ability to drive

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Speaker 2: small dollar grassroots fundraising from a massive email list of

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Speaker 2: people who just love him and are always willing to that,

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Speaker 2: you know, button and look for DeSantis. I guess, you know,

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Speaker 2: to defend him just a little bit. It's not like

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Speaker 2: they tried to hide it. You know. They literally had

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Speaker 2: a big donor conference at the Four Seasons Hotel in

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Speaker 2: Miami after they launched. That was the very first thing

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Speaker 2: that they did. They were clearly lining this up for

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Speaker 2: months before. Part of the pitch on why he's maybe

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Speaker 2: the only one to do it is he's got all

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Speaker 2: these billionaires that were backing him, Ken Griffin, many others,

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Speaker 2: the more college educated base of the Republican Party, the

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Speaker 2: people who like DeSantis. Why not lean on that, you know,

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Speaker 2: take the money if it's going to be there. These

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Speaker 2: people are much disportunately high income. But the reason why

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Speaker 2: that you should be at the very least a little

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Speaker 2: bit concerned about this if you are part of the

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Speaker 2: DeSantis team is getting people jazzed with their dollars is

430
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 2: the ultimate sign that they will come out, they will

431
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: vote for you, they will do everything possible for you.

432
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: And as we've seen the Scott Walker campaign, the Jeb

433
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: Bush campaign, and so many of these other campaigns having

434
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: a lot of money, it only works to a very

435
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: very small degree.

436
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, then again, Joe Biden had like zero

437
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: grossroots support right he became the Democratic nominee, So it's

438
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: important to keep the counter in mind. In general, I

439
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: agree with your analysis, though it was actually Obama who

440
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: first had this insight that even if you can get

441
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 1: someone to contribute like a dollar or two dollars, they

442
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: become personally invested in your campaign. They're more likely than

443
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: to volunteer, they're more likely than to engage online, they're

444
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: more likely to show up and vote. So there's a

445
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: strength that comes from that. It indicates the level of

446
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: you know rondo stance has very high favorability in the

447
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party. I'm not saying people don't like him. I

448
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: think people do like him. But there's a difference between yeah,

449
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: I like this guy and like I will walk across

450
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: broken glass for this man. And Donald Trump has that

451
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: from his hardcore supporters, like they will be there to

452
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: show up and vote, they will click the you know

453
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: box to send another ten dollars his way. The other

454
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: issue for everybody in the Republican Party is the fact

455
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: that Trump has used and abused his fundraising list, the

456
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: amount of you know, like asks that they make of

457
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: that list, just constant email bombardment of send me more,

458
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: send me more, send me more, has created a real

459
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: donor fatigue for the entire Republican Party that everybody sort

460
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: of suffers from, and behind the scenes a lot of

461
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: Republicans apparently complain about. So that's another piece. And then

462
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: the last part reason why this is significant is because

463
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: if you are dependent for financial support on a millionaire

464
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: or billionaire class, then you have to be sensitive to

465
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: their concerns and you have to, you know, moderate what

466
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: you're saying on Ukraine as one example, if that's an

467
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: issue where they're uncomfortable. And there are quite a number

468
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: of issues where the sort of elite donor class of

469
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: the Republican Party may be at odds with the broader

470
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: GOP base, and so it makes it a little bit

471
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: politically trickier for you to navigate if you've got to

472
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: keep those people happy who don't reflect the wants and

473
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: desires of the working class part of the Republican base

474
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: that desantisis so far really struggle to win over.

475
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: And I have the numbers in front of me, which

476
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 2: just to prove the point, the average donation for the

477
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: fourth quarter of the Trump campaign was thirty four dollars,

478
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 2: So compare that to the two hundred. I mean, this

479
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: is what people just don't get. And you know, previously comparatively,

480
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: in the two weeks after Trump was charged, his campaign

481
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: received three hundred and twelve thousand donations in two weeks,

482
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 2: with an average donation of forty nine bucks. This is

483
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: a fundraising juggernaut of which people are deep always have underestimated,

484
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: and it is a good proxy for voting. I mean,

485
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: you know, once again, literally from January to March, he

486
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: received half a million donations. I mean, that is again

487
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: very on par with Obama and with Sanders. These are

488
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: very rare, very very rare political phenomena for people to

489
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: be able to do that, which is why the vast

490
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: majority of them pursue the DeSantis model and they go

491
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 2: to or the Biden model really and go to big donors.

492
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: As you just said, though, it's not like it can't work.

493
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: It can work, so we shouldn't say that you know

494
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: that it can't, but it is a strength, it is

495
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:00,719
Speaker 2: a major strength.

496
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, the more I think about this, match between DeSantis

497
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: and Trump, the more that it feels there's some echoes

498
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: of Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, for sure. I mean, on paper,

499
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: they support a lot of the same things Bernie and

500
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: Warren do, right, but their approach and the base of

501
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: their support in the way they communicate about those policies

502
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: is just it's just totally different. And so you know,

503
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: their support, where their money came from, and their ability

504
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: to succeed ultimately in the process also ends up being

505
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: totally different. And so yeah, I'm not saying it's exactly

506
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: the same, but I do see a lot of similarities

507
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: there in the way that this is unfolding. I think

508
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: the best analysis is the difference between them is the

509
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: like wind track beer track distinction, and that certainly is

510
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: reflected in these fundraising numbers.

511
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: Certainly, absolutely right, Let's go ahead to twenty twenty four,

512
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: some big news about the debates, about who's going to

513
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 2: get allowed to debate, and so much more so, let's

514
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: go and start putting these up on the screen, guys,

515
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: because we're gonna go ahead and show people. First of all,

516
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: whenever it comes to DeSantis, his team does not want

517
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: NBC or CNN to co host the debate. Trump, however,

518
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: is wary of Fox and of Murdoch's perceived turn to DeSantis.

519
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even call it perceived. I would say it's

520
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: just absolutely correct. Then you've got CNN and NBC who

521
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: are salivating to host the GOTV debate, but the deadlock

522
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: is making uncertainty over whether any of it will literally

523
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: happen at all now. As Alex Thompson here notes, Trump's

524
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: campaign believes his opponents actually need the primary debates more

525
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: than he does, obviously because he's behind them in the polls.

526
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: If Trump doesn't show up, what does DeSantis do? Neither

527
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: have committed currently to the first debate in August, and

528
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: if they don't show up, what do the others do?

529
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: This is a very important thing, and I will just

530
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 2: say once again I do while I want Trump to

531
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: show up further debates because I believe that people should debate,

532
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: and I believe also, you know, it'd be fun to

533
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: cover here on breaking points saif yes, just purely selfishly,

534
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: if I were him, There's no way in hell I

535
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: would show up to these debates, No way, because it

536
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: is makes them all just seem like squabbling children who

537
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: are going after his scraps. When you're the king, why

538
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 2: put yourself in a position where somebody can come after you.

539
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: It denigrates them to a lower status by just saying

540
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: you're not even worth my time. I don't have to

541
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: do this now. For DeSantis, this is very, very tricky.

542
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: Do you show up to the debate where you become

543
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: the center or attacks? Chris Christie needs to take out

544
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: de Santis. He wants to become number two. But vig

545
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: Ramaswami's got to take out De Santis. Nikki Haley has

546
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: got to take out De Santis. That's why they're mostly

547
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: all concentrating their fire on one another. What does DeSantis do?

548
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: I think if Trump doesn't show up to the debate,

549
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 2: DeSantis shouldn't either, because it's again a sign of strength

550
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: of Nope, I'm the number two. You idiots can all

551
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: squabble on stage if you want. For example, Nikki Haley

552
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: hell a CNN TI Hall, nobody cares. Nobody cares because

553
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: she's a low rated candidate. It's not a media event.

554
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: He would basically turn Remember the when was it in

555
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen the Republican primary debates where they had two

556
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: debates the lower polls and then the diople. Yeah, their

557
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: body of yindle and all them. Nobody cared. Nobody watched

558
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: it at all. It was irrelevant. From a perspective, he

559
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: needs to turn if Trump does not show up. That's

560
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: what DeSantis should do. He should turn the GOP primary

561
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: debates into a spectacle. Now, I once again want to say,

562
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: I do think everybody should debate. I think it's important

563
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: for a democracy, but unfortunately there is no requirement to

564
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: do so.

565
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we should have a law, constitutional amendment,

566
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: whatever needs to happen to make this required, because American

567
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: people deserve to hear from the candidates, especially the candidates

568
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: who want to be freaking president of the United States.

569
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: It's absolutely an absurdity. I disagree on the DeSantis calculus here.

570
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: So first of all, let me say that if I

571
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: was the DeSantis team, I would be doing whatever I could,

572
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: bending to whatever desires Trump has to try to persuade

573
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: him to debate, because I think you need that. I

574
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: think you need to be on stage with him to

575
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: have a shot. Okay, so if Trump is like I

576
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: would rather it's NBC. You may not like NBC or

577
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: CNN or MSMBS or whatever. But if that's where he

578
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: feels more comfortable, he's got the upper hand, he's got

579
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: all the leverage, So I would bend to his wishes,

580
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: even knowing that it is still unlikely that he is

581
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: probably going to show up in debate. So that's number one.

582
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: Number two, Desantus has got to take a lot of

583
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: risks here, you know. So is it risky for him

584
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: to step on that debate stage with everybody else probably

585
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: like guns blazing directly for him since he's the one

586
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: that happens to be there, and they're all trying to

587
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: position themselves to be the Trump alternative, and they're all

588
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: basically too afraid to go directly after Donald Trump. Yeah,

589
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: that's that's a huge risk, especially for a guy who

590
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, frankly doesn't do all that well in unscripted situations.

591
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: So yes, it's a risk. Do I think it's a

592
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: risk he needs to take. I do, And it's at

593
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: least a chance for him to again grab the media

594
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: attention that he so desperately needs when Trump is typically

595
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: sucking up all of the oxygen in the room. So

596
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 1: I see it a little bit differently. I don't think

597
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: DeSantis can afford to sit out those sorts of opportunities

598
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: to get in front of cameras and try to persuade

599
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: people that he is up to the task and that

600
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: they should supplant the guy that they already really like,

601
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, who was already president of the United States

602
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: once with a newcomer that they like but aren't as

603
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: sure or as passionate about.

604
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, look, maybe you're right. I truly don't know.

605
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the rules and some of that too.

606
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: Let's go to the next part here, guys, because the

607
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: rules are actually pretty important. This gets to some of

608
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: the pitches that we are. Inside the NBC pitch, they

609
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: say that they're making sure that they'll be seen as

610
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: fair and you know, talking, and the De Santa's campaign

611
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: is upset about the way NBC has previously covered them.

612
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: CNN as well. Inside of their pitch they say that

613
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: CNN can reach more conservatives than Box as well as

614
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 2: independent voters, which is a joke.

615
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Cause this is absolutely okay true.

616
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 2: Let's go to the next part here, guys, just so

617
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: we can show everybody. What we can see here is

618
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: that they DeSantis actually is making a case that he

619
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: does not believe that corporate media should even be involved

620
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: in the RNC process at all because quote, their whole

621
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: goal is to make the Republican candidates as ridiculous as possible.

622
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: So the last remaining contenders kind of are ABC News,

623
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: CBS News, and PBS. Let's get a little bit to

624
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: the rules here, because this is important. Let's go to

625
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: the next one that we can show people. To qualify

626
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: for the current debates, according to the RNC, candidates must

627
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: poll at least one percent in three national polls or

628
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: one percent in two national polls, one percent in one

629
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: early state polls from two separate carve out states aka

630
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: like Iowa, New Hampshire, and then a minimum of forty

631
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: thousand unique donors with at least two hundred unique donors

632
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 2: in twenty plus states, and pledge to not participate in

633
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: non RNC debates and support the eventual nominee. So interesting

634
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: for a couple of reasons. First of all, the polling

635
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: at one percent and all of that, that's not difficult.

636
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of candidates, But the forty thousand unique

637
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: donors in twenty and then including two hundred donors across

638
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: twenty different states, that's actually harder to do. Especially the

639
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: forty thousand uniques. It means you cannot brute force your

640
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 2: way or kind of rich guy your way into this.

641
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: Forty thousand is just a lot of people, and it

642
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: will definitely require some actual like support for your candidacy

643
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: across the country. The other thing is, and I don't

644
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: think a lot of people notice this, having to pledge

645
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: to support the eventual nominee is a huge inclusion into

646
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: the new debate rules because Trump famously, at the very

647
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: first debate of the RNC, when they asked him, will

648
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: you support the eventual nominee, did not raise his hand

649
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: because he said, well, maybe maybe not. He still has

650
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: never answered that question. There's no way, also in my mind,

651
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: that he would even agree to that. So the RNC

652
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: might have shot itself in the foot by making sure

653
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: Crystal that Trump does not show up at all.

654
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's certainly impossible. I mean, given that criteria,

655
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: probably right now, possibly the only two that qualify based

656
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: on the donor criteria are Trump and DeSantis. Maybe there's somebody,

657
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: maybe a nicky Haley or somebody else may qualify right now,

658
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: but that really is the barrier, is the donor numbers

659
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: versus the polling numbers, because you know, even some of

660
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: the lesser known contenders are going to at least get

661
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: one percent in enough polls to be able to make

662
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: the debate stage. So I do think that that is

663
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: the bigger issue. But yeah, I mean Trump likes to

664
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: keep his leverage. He's he is very unlikely to submit

665
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: himself to that pledge. And you know, it's not a

666
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: crazy universe to imagine that if DeSantis did by some

667
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, stroke of luck or fate or whatever when

668
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: the Republican nomination, Trump would love to hang over their

669
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: heads like, Okay, I'll run third party event and we'll

670
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: see how that goes. So, you know, which is a

671
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: real problem for DeSantis's core alone ability pitch as well,

672
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: because you're gonna be a whole lot lesstable if Trump

673
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: is out there intentionally playing the role of the spoiler.

674
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: So I do think that might be a bridge that

675
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: he's not willing to cross.

676
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually saw Larry Elder apparently spoke to a

677
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: reporter about this. He said he was kind of criticizing

678
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: the forty thousand. He's like, oh, that's you know, so difficult,

679
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: all of that, and it gets to you know, some

680
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: of the difficulty. DeSantis and Trump obviously are going to

681
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: have no problem hitting the forty thousand unique donors, and

682
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: also people across with smaller candidates who even have pulled

683
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: at one or two percent, people like Nikki Haley, Tim Scott,

684
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: Vivid Ramaswami, Asa Hutchinson and all of them, they may

685
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: have a real donor issue. And actually you're very likely

686
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: to see them probably step up their online campaign efforts

687
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: as these rules have now been announced. So let's all

688
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: watch August. It's really not that far away before we

689
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: get to the very first debate. I'm excited.

690
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be fun. We're gonna have our

691
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: new set, got room for panelists. It's gonna be awesome.

692
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

693
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: Wait, all right, let's go to the next part. This

694
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: is uh, Jack returns. Jack Dorsey has returned to Twitter.

695
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: He's even got a blue check, so there's something going on.

696
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 2: It certainly does. And one of the things he did

697
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 2: whenever he surfaced for the first time on Twitter in

698
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: quite a long time, let's go ahead and put this

699
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: on the screen, was tweet he can and he will.

700
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: To a YouTube video of RFK Junior appearing on YouTube,

701
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: where it says Robert F. Kennedy argues he can and

702
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: beat Trump. Somebody replied, are you endorsing or are you

703
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: just predicting? And he said both, okay, so whatever that means.

704
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: So I guess that means he is certainly endorsing him,

705
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 2: since he did technically say that he would. He also

706
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: tweeted out this video against Joe Biden shows you that

707
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: this the moment that Biden fell, and he just said,

708
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: open the democratic crimes and debates. This isn't fair to anyone.

709
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: So clearly I did a video. I mean, obviously, you know,

710
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: there's literally no question why the why there should be

711
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: no democratic debate? RFK Junior and Mary and Williamson, anybody

712
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: else really who can qualify absolutely has the right and

713
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: really the responsibility, I think to challenge him and to

714
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: ask him, like, why are you fit to remain in office?

715
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 2: We're going to talk probably tomorrow, Crystal about this new

716
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: effort by Biden insiders to prove that he actually, yeah,

717
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: he's old, but he's not that old. He's he's a

718
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: spry old chicken. We we promise, you know, he gets

719
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: up at nine and works till six. And I'm like, uh,

720
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: you mean like everybody else in the country. Okay, not

721
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: all that inspiring. This also comes on the heels crystle

722
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 2: of Elon announcing that Twitter will be hosting a space

723
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: is actually later today with RFK Junior, moderated by Elon Musk.

724
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there. Twitter spaces says, heads up,

725
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: we're doing maintenance on our infrastructure to help us handle

726
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: bigger spaces. There may be some minor turbulence in the

727
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: next day for hanging with us, and Elon confirmed that

728
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: the system is being upgraded and stress tested in advance

729
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: of the RFK Junior interview on Monday, So big get

730
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: for RFK Junior. He will be there at I believe

731
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: it's Monday at two pm Eastern time, so a little

732
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: bit after this show will air for most of the

733
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: general public, and we'll have a big analysis for everybody

734
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: tomorrow on what happens.

735
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Yeah. Elon after the DeSantis one, I think,

736
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: in some like feeble effort to pretend like he's not

737
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: biased in this race, was like, oh, of course I'll

738
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: do spaces with any presidential contender. We'll see if that

739
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: ends up being the case. I know that Marianne had

740
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: replied like Hey, I do one too, and I don't

741
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: think she's heard back yet, so we'll see if that actually,

742
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, invitation extends to everyone. But I think the

743
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: more that RFK Junior or Mariann are able to get

744
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: high profile endorsements, high profile interviews where they're in the

745
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: public consciousness, I mean, this is the whole plan from

746
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: the DNA is basically like, We're just gonna pretend you

747
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: don't exist. We're going to pretend you're not quote unquote

748
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: serious or not quote unquote qualified. We're gonna pretend like

749
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: Biden has no real competition. And so, yes, you may

750
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: be nervous about the fact that he you know, can't

751
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: walk across the stage, and that he's in clear mental

752
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: decline and that he only works from like twelve to

753
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: four Monday through Thursday. You may be worried about him

754
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: serving as president at eighty six years old, but sorry,

755
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: you just don't have another choice. And so the more

756
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: that you have this kind of visibility for his challengers,

757
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: the more difficult it becomes for them to sustain that narrative.

758
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: And we saw this playbook a number of times in

759
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: the Democratic primary last time around, where the very first

760
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: phases we're just gonna pretend you don't exist. Even with Bernie,

761
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: who had been you know, so like so prominent and

762
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: has came so close in twenty sixteen if they hadn't

763
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: rigged the primary, even with him, they tried to just

764
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: pretend you didn't exist at the beginning of the twenty

765
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: twenty primary. And then you get to a certain critical

766
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: mass which like, okay, well we can't ignore you completely anymore,

767
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: so now we're going to smear you. Now we're going

768
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: to attack you, like that's the next phase. And I

769
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: think we're rapidly approaching that phase because it just becomes

770
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: more and more difficult to deny that there are other

771
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: alternatives that people don't have to stick with Joe Biden,

772
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: that there should be a competitive primary process. And so

773
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: I actually love to see Jack, you know, coming out

774
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: in talking about the Democratic primary, calling for debates. And

775
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: we need a lot more people like him who have

776
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: prominent positions to point out the fundamental hypocrisy of a

777
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: party that is run around with their clothes on fire

778
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: talking about the sanctity of democracy and then are doing

779
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: everything they can to short circuit the public having an

780
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: actual democratic choice within their own primary process. So, you know,

781
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: I just saw an article this morning from I think

782
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: it was ABC that was, like, you know, so far

783
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: the Democratic primary has been successful at shutting down left

784
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: wing critics who say there should be a debate. But

785
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: the longer this goes on and the more the polls

786
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: build for or RFK Junior in particular and Marion as well,

787
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: the more that that builds, the more difficult it's going

788
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: to become for them to hold this position that they

789
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: have right now.

790
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, as you said, let's go ahead and put B

791
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: seven guys please up on the screen. You reference the

792
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: Maryann Williamson tweet that she replied, and she says, Hi, Elon,

793
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: you had offered a space discussion to all presidential candider

794
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: to try to get in touch. I would love to

795
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 2: take you up on the offer. We'll see maybe RFK

796
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: Junior we'll bring it up there as well. And yeah, look,

797
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: I actually as bad as the DeSantis one went, I

798
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: genuinely hope this one goes well because I think people

799
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: like this deserve a forum and a chance, and I

800
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: want to see more of them, and you know, if

801
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: they can, maybe they should even publish it as a podcast.

802
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: I actually hope that there are no technical glitches, so

803
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: then we can just clip out things that he says

804
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: and we can talk about the editorial rather and so

805
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: can other media outlets rather than you know, focusing on

806
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 2: all that. So right, anyway, we'll see, be right.

807
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: And I would still never recommend to any candidate that

808
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: you launch on Twitter spaces, not only for the technical

809
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: glitter reasons, like it was poorly conceived of to begin with.

810
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: It's set, the audio quality sounds like crap. It's a

811
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: very impersonal kind of forum. It just doesn't lend itself

812
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: to the sort of like staging that you would want

813
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: to make your big first impression on the country, but

814
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: as a forum to have a discussion and have, you know,

815
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: high profile and get asked some tough questions. And yeah, absolutely,

816
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: like I would recommend this to anyone, especially candidates who

817
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: are being shut out completely of the mainstream press and

818
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: who are they're trying to just completely invisibilize. If you've

819
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: gott an opportunity to grab some attention, you do it,

820
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: even if there are risks inherent in that. But yeah,

821
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: don't don't launch on Twitter spaces would probably be the

822
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: advice here.

823
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.

824
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: One. Okay, the same time, we've got some other social

825
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: media platform or I guess content platform news for you. Famously,

826
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: YouTube has been very aggressive about taking down any content

827
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: that suggests the twenty twenty Elie was stolen, even sometimes

828
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: when that content is trying to debunk those claims. Well,

829
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: they have just announced that they are changing that policy.

830
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up on the screen. This

831
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: is actually a big deal, so they say, scoop. YouTube

832
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: reverses misinformation policy to allow US election denialism. In reversal

833
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: of its election integrity policy, YouTube will leave up content

834
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: that says fraud, errors, or glitches occurred in the twenty

835
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: twenty presidential election and other US elections. The company confirmed

836
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: why it matters. YouTube established the policy in December twenty twenty,

837
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: after enough states had certified the twenty twenty election results.

838
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: In part of their comments here from YouTube, they said,

839
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: two years, tens of thousands of video removals, and one

840
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: election cycle later, we recognized it was time to reevaluate

841
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: the effects of this policy in today's change landscape. Now,

842
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: the way Axios presents this saga is very like, you know,

843
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: they make it sound bad that the decision was changed

844
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: but people have to understand the reality of how this

845
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: was enforced because even you know, our old outlet, The Hill,

846
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: they played some Trump clip where he's talking about a

847
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,479
Speaker 1: bunch of nonsense. They're not endorsing it, They're just trying

848
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: to cover one of the most prominent people in political life,

849
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: and their content is getting taken down and banned. And

850
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: it's not just them, I mean this happened. This also

851
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: happened to Kyle where he was trying to do a

852
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: segment debunking some of these claims and it gets hit

853
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: and taken down. So the way that this policy was

854
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: applied was horrendous and counterproductive. And also, you know, we

855
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: have a commitment here to free speech and anti censorship. Anyway,

856
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: the way to go about these things is to debunk,

857
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: to debate, to you know, meet these like spurious claims

858
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: with facts and truth, which is what we tried to do.

859
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: We went through painstakingly all of the lawsuits that were

860
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: filed and tried to explain to people, here is why

861
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: there's no there there. That's the approach to this, not

862
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: just blanket takedown. So you know, selfishly, I'm very glad,

863
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm very happy about it because we always had to

864
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: be very nervous anytime, Like for example, when we took

865
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: Trump's launch speech for his campaign, we were very concerned

866
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: about whatever he says they could hit us with, even

867
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: though it's not like we're endorsing these claims. But if

868
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: you don't come out and say, let me debunk claim

869
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: by claim by claim, and even if you do that,

870
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: they may still take it down.

871
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 2: It's so ridiculous. Look, Crystal, you and I have said

872
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: this directly to youtube' space, you know, and time and

873
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: time again, I've been very outspoken about this policy and

874
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 2: why I hate it, which is that the idea that

875
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: broadcasting what a person of public interest says is an

876
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 2: endorsement is ridiculous. It's ludicrous on its face. When you're

877
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: in the news, you play what people say and then

878
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: you talk about it. You can say afterwards if you

879
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: want to, whether this is wrong or not. But also

880
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 2: I even object to the idea that we are supposed

881
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 2: to be compelled to fact check what we it is

882
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: not we are allowed to program our show in any

883
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 2: way that we want. And also, yeah, look you can

884
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 2: hate it. You can hate it if there are right

885
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: wing YouTubers out there who are doing videos about how

886
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: the twin election was stolen. But if you set a

887
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 2: policy about trying to ban that type of stuff, there

888
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: will come a time where soon, maybe in the future,

889
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: you have questions about election mishaps or something going on

890
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 2: in this country and you try to do a video

891
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: on it, and it is going to get taken down,

892
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: or they can set a policy in which they adjudicate

893
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 2: what is correct and what is not. At the end

894
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: of the day, it is up to the legal system

895
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: and it is up to our actual viewers. I'm doing

896
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: a whole monologue today, by the way, about this about

897
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: fact checking, community notes and Twitter, and it's so important

898
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: for people to understand platforms have no business adjudicating truth,

899
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 2: especially whenever it comes to small c civics issues like democracy,

900
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: like voting, like elections. These are belong to the public.

901
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: They belong to all of us. They are our elections.

902
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: Our public officials set the rules and the things and

903
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 2: the debates around them, and if people lie about them,

904
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: well a that's on them. And why I hate this

905
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 2: as well is what was the reason that all these

906
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 2: Republicans lost in twenty twenty Crystal or twenty twenty two, Crystal.

907
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: Stop the steal. People aren't stupid. A lot of people

908
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: hate it. They hate it so much drives them completely insane.

909
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: That was a literal democratic check on something that people

910
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: did not like, and obviously Republicans did not make enough

911
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: of a case that it was true enough and in

912
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 2: fact made it such enough of a case simply vote

913
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: against them that many of them lost across this country.

914
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: It is so important for people to understand that democracy

915
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: itself is the single best check against lies, against disinformation,

916
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 2: and the idea that you need some overall thing to

917
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: come on top and to tell you what's true and

918
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,959
Speaker 2: what's not for people like us, or how to run

919
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 2: our business, for people like us, how to run our content.

920
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: I would never presume to do that to anybody. So anyway,

921
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm very glad to see this policy. Person. My advice

922
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: to YouTube. My advice to YouTube is stay out of

923
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: this game, stay out fact check label. You know, even today,

924
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: every once in a while, now I said it, this

925
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: video will have some stupid COVID warning for what linked

926
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: to Wikipedia. You know, it's like, it's like, how is

927
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 2: that useful to anybody who is watching this? You know,

928
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: it's one of those where the the entire It's a

929
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: narcissism of these platforms to think that some stupid Wikipedia

930
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 2: type label is going to in any way influence.

931
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: Or change well, they don't actually think that. They just

932
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: want to cover their asses for advertisers. That's that's all

933
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: it is. They want to be able to say to

934
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: advertisers like, oh, we put in a warning and here's

935
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: the link and whatever, so that they can feel comfy

936
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: having their ads run whatever. That's what it's really all about.

937
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: I do have a theory about why they changed the

938
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: policy now, which is Trump just did his big CNN

939
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: town hall where he spotted a bunch of you know,

940
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: election nonsense, and it just becomes really clear, like, okay,

941
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: so are you going to hit CNN because they didn't

942
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: robut every single claim in real time or whatever? Are

943
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: you going to take their videos down? It just becomes

944
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: really clear. Number one, they always have had a different

945
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: policy about what corporate media can get a with and

946
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: when an independent media can get away with. And number two,

947
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the presidential cycle is underway. Are we not

948
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: supposed to play Trump's speeches or take his comments live

949
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: for fear that he may say something that is ludicrous

950
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: and incorrect. That's just a preposterous standard that makes no

951
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: sense ever, but especially makes no sense when you're in

952
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: the middle of a presidential election season. So I sort

953
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: of think that the CNN town hall may have been

954
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: the breaking point where they realize, like, all right, this

955
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: policy doesn't really make sense. It's not really sustainable. Our

956
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: hypocrisy and our like double standards here are being too

957
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: blatantly exposed. So we gotta change course. We got to

958
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: make a different decision.

959
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: Listen, I absolutely hope. So it's a stupid policy for

960
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: all these people stay out. Let the public look at

961
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 2: the information, everything that is out there and make up

962
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: their own mind. You have no quote unquote responsibility or

963
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 2: even obligation to try and quote unquote fact check whatever

964
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: is out there. That's not your job. It's the job

965
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: of the people. And the sooner that people understand that,

966
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: the better. It drives me absolutely crazy every time I

967
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: see stuff like this.

968
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: All right, we have a big Supreme Court decision that

969
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: we wanted to break down for you all that could

970
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: have huge ramifications about workers' ability to strike. Let's put

971
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: this up on the screen and then I'll tell you

972
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: some of the backstories. So this is from more perfect union,

973
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: they say breaking. The Supreme Court has ruled in favor

974
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: of a concrete company that wanted to sue a union

975
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: because a strike cost them money. The eight to one

976
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: decision means the company, Glacier Northwest Incorporated, can sue the

977
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: union over a strike where truck drivers left wet concrete

978
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: in their trucks. So we covered the story previously, but

979
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: just to remind everybody the backstory here. What happened is

980
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: you had workers represented by a Teamsters local who were

981
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: in the middle of negotiations with this company, Glacier Northwest,

982
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: and those negotiations were not bearing fruit. The union was dissatisfied,

983
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: the workers were dissatisfied, and so they decide to go

984
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: on strike. This one does. This is the way that

985
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: if you're in a union, that you leverage the power

986
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: that you have as a worker in the fact that

987
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: the company needs your labor in order to succeed. That's

988
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: the way you leverage your power. So they walk off

989
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: the job at a time that was after the I

990
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: think warning truck drivers had already gone and they had

991
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: wet cement in their trucks. Now they actually tried to

992
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: mitigate some of the economic harm to the company, which

993
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: I would argue they're not necessarily required to do. But

994
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: they sought to mitigate some of the economic harm by

995
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: keeping the drums in the truck running so that that

996
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: wet concrete wouldn't just instant what concrete wouldn't just instantly

997
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: harden and damage the trucks. Yet, because they were on strike,

998
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: there's still was some economic harm to the company because

999
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: they were unable to deliver that that material, and so

1000
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: they lost money on the fact they were unable to

1001
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: deliver that material, and I think they just had to

1002
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: dispose of it ultimately. And they also argue that there

1003
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: was some risk there could have been damage to the

1004
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: trucks if it had been allowed to harden in the barrels.

1005
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: So Glacier said, all right, we're going to sue you

1006
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 1: the union because the workers went on strike and caused

1007
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: us economic harm. Well, a state court said, no, you

1008
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: can't do this, because number one, this isn't really even

1009
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: our jurisdiction. This is we're talking about federal laws here

1010
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: that you know are in play. The National Labor Relations Board,

1011
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: they're the ones that should investigate and should decide whether

1012
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 1: this was like egregious behavior on behalf of the union

1013
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: or not. This went all the way up to the

1014
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and that's how you end up with this

1015
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: eight to one decision that now sends it back down

1016
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: and says, yes, you can actually sue this union over

1017
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: the damages from this strike. Now, let me say a

1018
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: couple of things. First of all, law clearly recognizes that

1019
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: if you are a worker engaged in a strike, you

1020
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: can't engage in violence, you can't engage in direct vandalism,

1021
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: and those sorts of things are out of bounds. And

1022
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: you know there can be suits in state courts. That's

1023
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: like very clear cut. But why this is so troubling

1024
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: and so damaging is now you're sending a message to

1025
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: all companies and all corporations that if you're economically harmed

1026
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: at all by a strike, you may have an ability

1027
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: to sue the workers and sue the union. You can

1028
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: imagine what kind of a chilling effect that we'll have

1029
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: too on workers who are considering striking. Well, the whole

1030
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 1: point of a strike is to use your labor, I mean,

1031
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: to cause some economic harm that puts pressure on the

1032
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: employer to come to the negotiating table and bargain so

1033
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: that's why this is such a potentially damaging decision. The

1034
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: one dissenting justice here was Katanji Brown Jackson. She argued,

1035
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: the majority is inserting itself into an assessment of labor

1036
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: disputes that is lawfully the purview of the National Labor

1037
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: Relations Board, and that the court is overstepping their jurisdiction.

1038
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: That's basically what the State court had argued as well.

1039
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: She also argued that the court is putting the onus

1040
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: on workers and their union to avert any economic damage

1041
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: to Glacier the company, when it was actually on the

1042
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: company to take steps to negotiate in good faith with

1043
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: the union and try to mitigate their own losses. Put

1044
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: this next article from Reuter's up on the screen. This

1045
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of some of the arguments here

1046
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: that were made by the justices on either side of

1047
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 1: this issue. Their headline is US Supreme Court hands defeat

1048
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: to organize labor in truck or strike case. So Amy

1049
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Connie Barrett is the author of the majority ruling. She

1050
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: said the union's actions had not only destroyed the concrete,

1051
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: but had also quote posed a risk of foreseeable, aggravated

1052
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: and imminent harm to Glacier's trucks. That harm did not

1053
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 1: come to pass, but she's saying it could have come

1054
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: to pass. And she says because the union took affirmative

1055
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: steps to endanger Glacier's property rather than reasonable precautions to

1056
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: mitigate that risk, the National Labor Relations Act does not

1057
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: arguably protect its conduct. Again, that should be left to

1058
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: the Natural Labor Relations Board to adjudicate. But that's what

1059
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: they argued. And just to give you a little bit

1060
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: of a taste of the katanji on Jackson dessent, she said,

1061
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: and I thought this was well put. Workers are not

1062
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: indentured servants bound to continue laboring until any planned work

1063
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: stoppage would be as painless as possible for their master.

1064
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: So that is the way that she was arguing. The

1065
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: other side of this last thing to note here, Sager,

1066
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: guess which side the administration took. They took the side

1067
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: of the company and said they should have the ability

1068
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: to sue. It should go back down to the stakehoord

1069
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: and they should be able to adjudicate it. There So,

1070
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 1: mister most pro worker, pro union president and history, once

1071
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: again stabbing workers in the back.

1072
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: This is bad for a variety of reasons, because what

1073
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: people don't understand is that even the standing the ability

1074
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: to sue, for example, we would and every other media

1075
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: company on earth would cover things dramatically differently if we

1076
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: did not know that the bar was incredibly high in

1077
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 2: order to try and sue people who were in the media.

1078
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: Whenever you're talking about public officials, you would basically have

1079
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 2: a British type system or in many of the other

1080
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: Western countries, where they can effectively file a complaint against

1081
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: you for anything, and the First Amendment and the level

1082
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: of legal protection does not apply to the media. What

1083
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 2: ends up happening a fusion of the state and of

1084
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 2: the media. Now we already kind of live in that system,

1085
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 2: but we have at least more free speech protections for

1086
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: people who want to use them should they try. The

1087
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: threat of legal action itself, Ask anybody who is in business,

1088
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: the threat itself is chilling whenever it comes to speech.

1089
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 2: The same can be said here just to standing, the

1090
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 2: ability to sue will and can guide future strike actions

1091
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: which are dramatically in favor of the company. So it's

1092
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 2: very obvious here who benefits from this change in the

1093
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: from this change, like in the current way that we

1094
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: look at things and will have a bad effect, especially

1095
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: is kicking people when they're down, because you know, they're

1096
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: trying to increase the unemployment rate already and to try

1097
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 2: and limit you know, whatever power the workers had in

1098
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: a tight labor market. So it really is it's especially

1099
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: bad timing.

1100
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's disgraceful to see that, you know,

1101
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: the uniparty at work here, that you have only one

1102
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: descent from Kataji bron Jackson. And kudos to her for,

1103
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, in a very well argued descent, I would say,

1104
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: and very strongly worded, but ultimately she's just one person

1105
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: on the court. You know, there's a lot of talk

1106
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: about like the liberals and the conservatives on the court,

1107
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: but far too often the two sides tend to agree

1108
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: when it comes to bolstering capital and crushing labor. As

1109
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: regular viewers of the show or you know, regular people

1110
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,240
Speaker 1: who exist in America know the law is already overwhelmingly

1111
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 1: on the side of the bosses, especially when it comes

1112
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 1: to the right to organize and now the right to strike.

1113
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: So these little levers of power and leverage that working

1114
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: class people actually have. I don't think it's an accident

1115
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: that at a time when you have this gigantic gulf

1116
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: between huge support for labor, huge support for workers, huge

1117
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: support for organized labor and unions in particular, but you

1118
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 1: have such low union density. I think that a lot

1119
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: of companies are seeing, you know, the movement at Starbucks,

1120
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: the movement at Amazon, at Arii, at Chipotle, all these

1121
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: places across the country, and they're very nervous. So this

1122
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: gives the Supreme Court a chance to sort of check

1123
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: workers at a time when union support is super high,

1124
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: but you still have very low union density. So it's

1125
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: an attempt to try to keep them from gaining any

1126
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: sort of traction within the American economy. I think it

1127
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: could be really devastating, because you know, every strike is

1128
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: going to cause some economic harm to the company, and

1129
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: now they've opened the door for no matter. Let's say

1130
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: you're you know, more perfect Union actually did a great

1131
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: video on this, but that I recommend to people. So

1132
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: let's say you're a Starbucks worker and you go on strike,

1133
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: which a number of locations they have. Let's say the

1134
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: milk spoils. Let's say they lose some customers. Whatever happens now, Starbucks,

1135
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: Howard schultzen Coke can come out and suit the workers

1136
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: and sue the union because they dare to voice, you know,

1137
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: to exercise their right to strike, to demand better conditions, fare, wages,

1138
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,959
Speaker 1: whatever is that they're after. So I think it could

1139
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: be incredibly damaging, really devastating, and you know, it's not surprising,

1140
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: but it's really sad to see the Biden administration and

1141
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: almost all of the liberal and all of the conservative

1142
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: justices team up to crush workers in this way.

1143
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely agreed on that, Crystal.

1144
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: All right, have some big media news for you guys.

1145
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: Chuck Todd moving on from Meet the Press. Of course,

1146
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: that is the Sunday show. He also does Meet the

1147
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: Press daily. Does he still do that? Oh it's online only.

1148
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: That was already scores scores of people watching him over

1149
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: there on on Peacock streaming. So he is moving on

1150
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: his out from Meet the Press. Kristen Welker, longtime NBC

1151
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: News reporter and journalists, will be replacing him. There. Let's

1152
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: take a list into how he announced it.

1153
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 5: Welcome back. I have a personal announcement. Well today it's

1154
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 5: not my final show. This is going to be my

1155
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 5: final summer here at Meet the Press. It's been an

1156
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 5: amazing nearly decade long run. I'm pretty really proud of

1157
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 5: what this team and I have built over the last

1158
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,479
Speaker 5: decade and frankly the last fifteen plus years that I've been.

1159
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: Here at NBC.

1160
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: So Sager, you know, are you okay? Like, how are you?

1161
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: How are you handling this news? I know you're pretty baraff.

1162
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know what said, Meet the Press was a

1163
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: great franchise. It was, though it was one of those

1164
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: things which it belonged to the monoculture era and we

1165
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 2: should have just left it there the.

1166
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: Idea, so Well said, yeah, that's so true.

1167
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: At that time, there were only three networks you know,

1168
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: sorry there were three yeah, three big networks, three cable channels.

1169
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: There was not a variety of ways for the public

1170
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: to get information from public officials. The Sunday Show was

1171
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 2: the main format in order to interview these people to

1172
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: get you know, Iraq war and all that stuff, get

1173
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: it out there. And Tim Russert was he was okay,

1174
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 2: you know, in my opinion, I don't think he was

1175
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: like the god that people think that he wi was.

1176
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: I actually an effective interviewer though.

1177
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 2: He was, But he also let a lot of things

1178
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 2: slide during Iraq which I don't think it should be

1179
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: forgiven for so anyway, I'll I'll let it. I'll just

1180
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: leave it and say I think he was a little

1181
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: bit too cozy, but yeah, he was a decent interviewer,

1182
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: I think when he wanted to be, and we should

1183
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 2: have just left it there After he died, it was sad.

1184
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 2: But from that point forward the franchise tried to use

1185
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: the Gravitas in an ever changing way. It was basically

1186
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: two thousand and six onward, the Internet comes and absolutely explodes.

1187
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 2: You have a variety of different ways that officials can

1188
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: get the word out. The Sunday Show continues to diminish,

1189
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: and then now at this point, even putting in somebody new,

1190
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: it just doesn't have the same power that it once did.

1191
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 2: I mean, the idea is is that the Sunday Show

1192
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 2: was this like prestige time slot in TV. And don't

1193
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 2: get me wrong, and it still can and does compel

1194
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: big interviews every once in a while, but it's usually

1195
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 2: legacy figures people like George Stephanopolos and others who will

1196
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 2: get those big scores, and it just doesn't matter in

1197
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: the way that it once did. So I think also

1198
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 2: that Chuck Todd and NBC also did damage to the

1199
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: brand by trying to turn it into a daily show,

1200
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 2: basically relegating it, you know, once again to Cable then

1201
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: the cancel it to move it to TV or to

1202
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: move it online, which shows just how unimportant it really is.

1203
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 2: And you know it like it dies with a whim

1204
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: with a with a whisper, like you know, with a whimper.

1205
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 2: Really yeah, it goes out. It should have died a

1206
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: long time ago.

1207
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and it will. It will continue on

1208
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: in a lessened form. You know. Kristen Welker actually like

1209
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: no problem with her on a personal level. She seems

1210
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: like a really nice lady and I think people genuinely,

1211
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: genuinely like seem to like her, that her colleagues that

1212
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: work with her at NBC. This is also not though

1213
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: like a blockbuster marquee choice, and it to me is

1214
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: in line with the philosophy of managed to cline that

1215
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: you have seen implemented at both at you know, MSNBC,

1216
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: Fox News and Cianna and basically where when they're big

1217
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: stars depart, it's not like they're looking to make that

1218
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: new big deal and bring in something that's going to

1219
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: be game changing, They're just kind of bringing in someone

1220
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: who's safe, who can sustain. So, you know, the classic

1221
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: example is over at MSNBC, Rachel Maddow, their star for

1222
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: years and years, the quarterback of that whole lineup, the

1223
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: only person who really was able to sort of consistently

1224
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: bring in a ratings charge. She significantly diminishes her role.

1225
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: She's only on there once a week, and they bring

1226
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: in Alex Wagner, who's just like, you know, she's a placeholder.

1227
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: She's safe, she's comfortable, she's not going to rock the boat.

1228
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: She can keep, you know, whatever audience is handed to

1229
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: her from. I think it's Chris Hayes, who's at the

1230
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: eight pm hours. She can kind of hold on to

1231
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: that audience more or less and hand the ball off

1232
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: to whoever comes. They're not making, you know, they're not

1233
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: shooting for the moon anymore, and I think the choice

1234
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: of host here with Kristen Welker reflects that as well.

1235
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: This is not a household name, this is not huge

1236
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: star power, this isn't a marquee deal. It was sort

1237
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: of an afterthought in terms of how this was sold

1238
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: and how this was even mentioned. Your point about the

1239
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: relevant of the Sunday Shows, I think is also really

1240
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: well taken, and in some ways, I mean, part of

1241
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: this is not Chuck Todd's fault, right, it's like structural

1242
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: changes in the media media ecosystem. But then the fact

1243
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: that you have this just like very standard, establishment friendly,

1244
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: not particularly talented person who's at the helm, that doesn't

1245
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: help anything. One thing I will say, this is consistent

1246
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: with the block we just did, the conversation we just

1247
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: had about debates and how you actually need politicians held

1248
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: more to account and willing to subject themselves more to interviews.

1249
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: Part of the problem too, is that they're just less

1250
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: likely to the big politicians are less likely to sit

1251
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: for these interviews, so that makes it less relevant, which

1252
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: is a shame and a degradation of democracy. And then

1253
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: the other reason they're less relevant is there's just, you know,

1254
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of interest in helding their feet

1255
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: to the fire. So, in a strange sense, what the

1256
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: Sunday Shows were originally intended to do, I think we

1257
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: need more than ever in American politics, in American media.

1258
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: It's just that these shows are not really capable of

1259
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: being the same function that perhaps they once did.

1260
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just one of those where the format was

1261
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 2: derivative of the time and they thought that it was

1262
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: because of them, and it wasn't. You know. Yeah, it's

1263
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: like you said, like Chuck Todd, in some ways it's

1264
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: not his fault, but I mean, it certainly doesn't help

1265
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: that one of the most boring individuals to ever be

1266
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: on television. But you know, that kind of gets to

1267
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 2: what in the old times you could not even be

1268
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 2: all that good, and you could still be, you know,

1269
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: commanding a massive and a large presence. But today that's

1270
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 2: just not how it's gonna work, and people have options.

1271
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 2: DeSantis literally hasn't done a single corporate interview. You know,

1272
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 2: even Joe Biden actually was just reading, is the first

1273
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: president since Dwight D. Eisenhower not to do an interview

1274
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 2: with The New York Times. But he has done with Substack.

1275
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: He has done one with you know, what was that

1276
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: guy's name, Brian something.

1277
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: I forget his name, Oh, Brian Tyler Cohen.

1278
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 2: That guy, Brian Tyler Cowen has it as a Biden interview.

1279
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 2: I did this whenever I was actually, I'll be honest,

1280
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 2: this was my core pitch whenever I was in a

1281
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: White House correspondent I went to the Trump White House

1282
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: and I said, hey, you guys say you hate the

1283
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: New York Times, You're always sucking up to them. I'm like,

1284
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 2: what about new media? What about people who are on

1285
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 2: the internet, people like me? And they were like, yeah,

1286
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 2: that's a good point. You should do it. And so

1287
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 2: like that, it goes to when politicians have options, they're

1288
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 2: going to use them. They're going to play people against

1289
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: each other, and they're going to get the voice out

1290
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 2: in any way that they need to and to reach

1291
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 2: the most amount of people. Some of that today does

1292
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 2: include linear TV, but a lot of it includes online.

1293
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, as long as that's the reality,

1294
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 2: these shows are just not going to survive. There'll be

1295
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: in a period of managed decline.

1296
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, politicians use that new ecosystem to just seek out

1297
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: friendly interviews. Like if you're Joe Biden and you struggle

1298
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: to like formulate a complete sentence, which listen I relate

1299
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: to sometimes personally, you're not going to go and subject

1300
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: yourself to a tough interview. Now I'm not saying Chuck

1301
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: Todd was going to give you that tough interview, but

1302
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: you're going to find someone who's really just going to

1303
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: be like, tell me how amazing you are and did

1304
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: you accomplished so much with such terrible you know, Republicans

1305
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: in Congress, And if you're Rond de Santis, you're going

1306
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: to do the same on the other side. So it's

1307
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: it is that part of it. Even though the broader

1308
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: independent media ecosystem obviously like I celebrate. I think that's

1309
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: a very positive move forward. I think watching these old

1310
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: dinosaurs die is all to the better. But the fact

1311
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: that politicians use this new ecosystem to exempt themselves from

1312
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: any sort of challenging public scrutiny, that's a real loss.

1313
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you are absolutely correct, Crystal wouldn't take

1314
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 2: a look at So.

1315
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: Guys, we've got a potential new twenty twenty four contender

1316
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 1: that Wall Street is clamoring for on the Democratic side.

1317
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: This is actually like you literally can't make this up.

1318
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: So you guys might recall soccer and I actually recently

1319
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: covered this Wall Street Journal article talking about how sad

1320
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: they were to see a Trump Biden rematch, which look relatable.

1321
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: All of us are not that excited about that. But

1322
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: the reason that they're upset about it is because they

1323
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: don't think these two men are friendly in enough to

1324
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: Wall Street which is just patently insane. And buried in

1325
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: that article, which I barely even noticed at the time,

1326
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: was them floating Jamie Diamond, CEO of of course Chase Bank,

1327
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: the biggest bank in the country, maybe the world, certainly

1328
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: the country, as a potential presidential contender. Put this up

1329
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: on the screen from the Wall Street Journal. So here

1330
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: was the quote. They say, Jamie Diamond, whose name has

1331
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: swirled as a potential candidate for years, recently got an

1332
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: earful from a fellow billionaire who wishes the JP Morgan

1333
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: Chase CEO would run. According to people familiar with the matter. Interesting,

1334
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: I should have taken more not of that when it

1335
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: came out, because usually these little nuggets buried in this

1336
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 1: type of report have a lot more meaning than is

1337
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: initially laid out. And next thing you know, Jamie Diamond

1338
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: himself is on Bloomberg, which is of course the television

1339
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: station of the ultra wealthy, and he gets to ask

1340
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: specifically about whether he would consider running for president or

1341
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: another public office, and interestingly, he doesn't exactly rule it out.

1342
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 6: Jamie, I know last week you talked a lot about

1343
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 6: succession or about your position that you're not talking about

1344
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 6: retirement right now. I do need to ask you, though,

1345
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 6: And your name has been bandied about for years about

1346
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 6: public office. I mean, I don't think Wall Street's too

1347
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 6: pleased about the potential Trump versus Biden runoff next year.

1348
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 6: Is it any Has that scenario ever crossed your mind

1349
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 6: that you would run for public office or even accept

1350
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:26,839
Speaker 6: a cabinet position.

1351
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 7: You know, obviously it's crossed my mind because people mention

1352
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 7: things to you and stuff like that. I love my

1353
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 7: country and maybe one day I'll serve my country in

1354
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 7: one capacity or another. But I love what I do.

1355
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 7: I think, Jaden, we're going to do a great job

1356
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 7: for helping Americans, helping countries around the world. And this

1357
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 7: is my job. This is what I'm going to do,

1358
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 7: and I'm quite happy doing it. I still the energy

1359
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 7: to do what I mentioned. You know that when you don't,

1360
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 7: I think people should give up the job. You've got

1361
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 7: a fabulous management team where I really enjoy working with.

1362
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 1: So I'm here, so you know. There, he says, I

1363
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: love my country. Maybe one day I'll serve my country.

1364
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: He says that he's thought about it. It's cost his mind. Okay,

1365
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: so he's sort of holding out the possibility here. But

1366
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: you also had a major Wall Street dude hedge funder

1367
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 1: Bill Ackman. He took to Twitter he posted a long

1368
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: thread begging Jamie Diamond to run for PRESDA. We'll put

1369
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. I'm not going to read

1370
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: the whole thing because it's honestly, it's so embarrassing, but

1371
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: it's also really lengthy. So he says in part, Jamie

1372
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: Diamond is one of the world's most respected business leaders. Politically,

1373
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,799
Speaker 1: he's a centrist. He's pro business and pro free enterprise,

1374
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: but also supportive of well designed social programs and rational

1375
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: tax policies that can help the less fortunate. He's extremely smart, thoughtful, pragmatic,

1376
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: knows how to bring opposing parties together, etc. Et cetera,

1377
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: et cetera. He goes on to say that Jamie Diamond

1378
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: is the leader that we need right now. We need

1379
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 1: an exemplary business, financial, and global leader to manage through

1380
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: what is likely to be a critically important decade for

1381
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: our country in determining our destiny. He goes on to

1382
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: say potus is ext weak and incognitive decline. I can't

1383
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: really argue with that. Seventy percent of Democrats don't want

1384
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: him to run. True, Biden's weakness sets up a large

1385
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: opening for a qualified outsider to run as a Democrat.

1386
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: I guess he doesn't consider the already candidates in the

1387
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: race to be qualified. And he says Jamie can beat

1388
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: Biden in the primary and Donald Trump in the general,

1389
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: but he needs to start now and build name recognition

1390
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 1: among the broad electorate. He will easily raise billions of

1391
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: dollars I don't doubt that from Democrats and Republicans to

1392
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: fund his campaign, and he knows how to build support.

1393
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: I also enjoyed this part of what he had to

1394
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,759
Speaker 1: say because it's just like kind of a mask off moment.

1395
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: He says, Bill Ackman JP Morgan stock will go up

1396
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 1: even more when Jamie becomes potus, as he can do

1397
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 1: more for the bank and our economy as president than

1398
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: he can as chairman and CEO of JP Morgan. The

1399
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: Bank will be in great shape since he has built

1400
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: a deep succession bench that is more than ready to

1401
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: step up. There is only one better job for Jamie

1402
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 1: than CEO of JP Morgan Chase, and that is President

1403
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: of the United States. So he just comes out and

1404
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: says the quiet Bart out loud that this will be

1405
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: great for banks, It'll be great for JP Morgan Chase,

1406
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: their stock will go up because Jamie would be able

1407
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: to do so much for them as president of the

1408
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: United States, as if Joe Biden and Donald Trump didn't

1409
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: already like give the store away to Wall Street and

1410
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: Corporate America. Overall, it's actually kind of ironic because Sager

1411
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: and I had joke that Jamie Diamond is already sort

1412
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: of President of the United States, or more powerful than

1413
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: the president, because of the amount of power that he

1414
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: holds within the banking sector and how critical that's been.

1415
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: We saw this in particular during the Silicon Valley bailout.

1416
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 1: There was all sorts of reporting about how instrumental Jamie

1417
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: Diamond was in formulating what the policy was. Apparently, originally

1418
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: Biden had been kind of skeptical of doing any kind

1419
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: of bailout, and then Jamie Diamond and other figures like

1420
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: him got on the phone. Of course, Jamie Diamond also

1421
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 1: then was positioned to like suck up the profitable leftovers

1422
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: of the various banks that were collapsing at the time,

1423
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: so benefited him in the end in that way as well.

1424
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: But I always just think it's amazing the way that

1425
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: these people view the problems in America. They're not worried

1426
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: about like, oh, wealth inequality is too great, or they're

1427
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: not worried about like, oh, we need to be able

1428
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: to get everybody healthcare, or we need to check the

1429
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: military industrial complex. No, they actually think the problem is

1430
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: that our presidents haven't been pro Wall Street enough, haven't

1431
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: given enough away to the titans of Wall Street and

1432
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: of corporate America, which is so wildly disconnected from the

1433
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: views of the American people. And they also, I think,

1434
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 1: genuinely delude themselves into believing that there's an appetite among

1435
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: the American people for this type of quote unquote leadership.

1436
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: But you know, they could ask Michael Bloomberg that was

1437
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: his theory of the case last time I was around

1438
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: as well, and you can ask Michael Bloomberg how well

1439
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: this worked out for him. So Sager is just astonishing

1440
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: to me, Like it reminded me.

1441
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1442
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at break points dot Com.

1443
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 1: All right, soccer, what are you looking at?

1444
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 2: As we discussed earlier in our show, today. YouTube presumed

1445
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,759
Speaker 2: for years that you were so stupid that you couldn't

1446
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 2: decide whether the twenty twenty election was stolen, so that

1447
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 2: they decided to come in and fact check and take

1448
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: down videos. Now it should always be up to you.

1449
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 2: If you think about where the standard even comes from,

1450
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 2: it's totally ridiculous. It traces back to the twenty sixteen

1451
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 2: presidential election. Before that, the Internet had no fact checking

1452
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 2: on it, nor should it have. We literally had decades

1453
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 2: on forums and other places where people spoke freely. They

1454
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 2: had debates, they argued, and the stakes were never seen

1455
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 2: as existential. It was only after the twenty sixteen election

1456
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump that a bunch of people, elites mostly

1457
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 2: got together and decided that no normal person could ever

1458
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 2: in good conscience vote for Trump. They must have been

1459
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 2: tricked into it first by the Russians. Then they blamed Facebook.

1460
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 2: Some happily made Russian Facebook ads with a tiny budget

1461
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: compared to the rest of the entire campaign spending, was

1462
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 2: somehow responsible for swinging sixty five million votes. This led

1463
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,799
Speaker 2: to the fact checking industrial complex. You had Facebook, Twitter,

1464
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 2: YouTube and others partner withich so called news agencies to

1465
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 2: come together and to fact checkposts that were seen on

1466
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 2: the platform. Once again, underlying this program was this idea,

1467
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 2: you are so dumb that you believe everything on the

1468
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 2: Internet and that you trust the Washington Post, the New

1469
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 2: York Times, PolitiFact, Snopes, any of these others to be

1470
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 2: able to arbiter the truth in a small d democracy

1471
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 2: where people make up their minds for themselves based upon

1472
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 2: the information that is presented to them. They actually undermined

1473
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: that with fact checking. Fact checking itself is broken and

1474
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: is wrong, as we all learned in the COVID, you know,

1475
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 2: misinformation debates, as we learned in Wuhan lab, as we

1476
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 2: learned when the Hunter Biden laptop story was taken down.

1477
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 2: Their judgment cannot be trusted at a major macro level.

1478
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 2: So now bring in elon Community Notes. This has been

1479
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 2: the new program that Twitter has decided to launch where

1480
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 2: they say that they have solved fact checking with this

1481
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: program where you leave it up to the community. They

1482
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 2: say that this one is one where you can come

1483
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 2: in apply to be a Community notes fact checker. You

1484
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 2: will get voted by Twitter, vetted by them, and you

1485
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,799
Speaker 2: will come through and algorithmically as well as with human judgment,

1486
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 2: you will decide whether posts itself need context or not,

1487
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 2: and then how you decide which context is placed there. Well,

1488
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 2: the downfalls of this are fully on display here. Let's

1489
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:52,520
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. When Chris Pavlovski,

1490
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 2: he's the CEO of Rumble noted quote community notes on

1491
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 2: Twitter is a really bad idea. It is a fancy

1492
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: word for fact checking, which will eventually be gamed, hijacked,

1493
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 2: and or cause more harm than good. I've seen this

1494
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,679
Speaker 2: story too often and I won't let it happen on Rumble. Well,

1495
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 2: you know what's really crazy is that Chris's post here,

1496
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 2: which literally is an opinion, then had a community note

1497
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 2: actually added to it. And in it the community note

1498
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 2: says all Twitter accounts must meet eligibility criteria. Second, for

1499
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 2: a note to be shown on a tweet, it needs

1500
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 2: to be quote found helpful by people who have tended

1501
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 2: to disagree in past ratings. And lastly, notes track metrics

1502
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 2: that alert the team of suspicious activity is detected. So

1503
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 2: in effect, what they did is they added context to

1504
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 2: Chris's opinion. This is way past even the line of

1505
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: fact checking, and it shows you that if you are

1506
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 2: able to and want to use the community Notes platform.

1507
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 2: When you disagree, you can try and add something to

1508
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,680
Speaker 2: somebody's post that they they did not want there to

1509
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 2: be in the first place. This is a total, massive

1510
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 2: overstep in this entire system. The pushback that I've heard

1511
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 2: so far is, oh, but this is up to the

1512
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 2: community and not from top down. Okay, once again, just

1513
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 2: because community fact checking maybe quote unquote better at least

1514
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 2: in principle than top down fact checking by the news

1515
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 2: organizations does not mean that these platforms should be fact

1516
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,759
Speaker 2: checking at all. And in fact, that was really my position,

1517
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 2: and it's something that I put out there yesterday, which

1518
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,879
Speaker 2: is that people said, hey, this is the best solution

1519
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 2: to a very complex problem. The solution is dropping the

1520
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 2: presumption that preventing quote unquote disinformation is the responsibility of

1521
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 2: a platform at all. One person's disinformation will always be

1522
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: another's truth in a democracy. And it was really on

1523
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 2: display there where Chris put out an opinion and then

1524
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 2: somehow had a ridiculous community note actually attached to it.

1525
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 2: If you want to defend the Community Notes platform or

1526
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 2: a program, that's fine, you should reply to Chris's tweet

1527
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 2: with your opinion. If others find that useful, they can

1528
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 2: like that tweet or you can quote tweet what's happening

1529
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 2: with Chris's opinion and add yours and if more people

1530
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 2: like it, then that will be seen more. You should

1531
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 2: not be able to forcibly add context, you know, quote

1532
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 2: unquote onto anybody's posts that they never intended it to

1533
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 2: be there. It's actually a changing of the speech that

1534
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,600
Speaker 2: they intended to put. Now imagine also this in a

1535
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 2: more human context, because we can get bogged down in debates.

1536
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 2: Oh the algorithm, you know, some fake transparent, non transparent

1537
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 2: process in which these people are selected somehow means that

1538
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 2: we're supposed to just put all of our trust in Twitter.

1539
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 2: I've seen that, you know, fall apart so many times.

1540
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 2: But operationalize this to the real world. You're at a

1541
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 2: bar and you how many people have been in this scenario.

1542
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: You hear a couple of people having a discussion. What

1543
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 2: they are saying is completely inactate, wrong and stupid. Would

1544
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 2: you really want a scenario where people are able to

1545
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:09,840
Speaker 2: go in and to interject and say, actually, what you're

1546
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 2: saying needs context? Or do you think that those people

1547
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 2: should be able to say what they want? And then

1548
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 2: you know, maybe if you're friends with them. You could

1549
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 2: come in and just say, hey, I heard you guys

1550
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 2: talking about this. You know, here's what I think is important,

1551
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 2: you know, to understand, and then people can shrug and say, huh,

1552
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of interesting. But the point is

1553
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 2: is that people should have discrete opportunities to speak in

1554
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,640
Speaker 2: this environment. They should not be having things placed directly

1555
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 2: on top of theirs in a non transparent process which

1556
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 2: is supposedly up to the community. And I actually thought

1557
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: Michael Tracy also made a really good point here, which

1558
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 2: is that in the current program, when communities consist of

1559
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 2: self selected users who join up because they're invested in

1560
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 2: a certain cause, like on Twitter, how many times have

1561
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,520
Speaker 2: we said here before, Twitter is not representative of ever everybody.

1562
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 2: It is representative of a small, certain select base. Well,

1563
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 2: then even the amount of people who are engaged in

1564
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:11,560
Speaker 2: the process is by definition not representative of every constituency

1565
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,759
Speaker 2: that might have a say about whether something needs context,

1566
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 2: needs truth, or anything added to it. So look, I'm

1567
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: not picking on Twitter or Elon or any of these.

1568
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 2: What I am saying is that all attempts at fact

1569
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 2: checking themselves are bad. You know, what we do here

1570
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 2: at breaking points is. We don't lob onto somebody else's speech.

1571
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 2: We try to add context to help people think about things.

1572
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 2: And if people want to do videos about us and

1573
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 2: what we've gotten wrong, I think that's completely fine. But

1574
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 2: imagine a world where if enough people got together that

1575
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 2: they could interject something in the middle of one of

1576
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 2: our videos or on top of one of our videos,

1577
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: simply because they thought that we weren't adding context to something.

1578
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,759
Speaker 2: I object to fact checking in all forms that currently exist.

1579
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 2: I think Chris over at Rumble got it exactly right.

1580
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 2: And just because you like this one a little bit

1581
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 2: more than you like the top down one doesn't mean

1582
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 2: that all of them aren't bad in the very principle itself.

1583
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 2: So that's where I'm at, Crystal. I'm getting very annoyed.

1584
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who are sending me things, and.

1585
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 1: If you want to hear my reaction to Sagre's monologue,

1586
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber. Today at Breakingpoints dot com, our

1587
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: friends over at the Quincy Institute have a groundbreaking new

1588
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: report about just how much Pentagon money is going to

1589
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 1: fund opinions on the Ukraine War. Obviously, this is a

1590
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: vital debate let's go and put this report up on

1591
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: the screen. The headline here is that defense contractor funded

1592
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 1: think tanks dominate the Ukraine debate. Some important details contained

1593
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: therein and Ben Freeman, who is a research fellow at

1594
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: the Quincy Institute, joins us now to break down this report. Ben,

1595
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: great to have you, Good to.

1596
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 2: See you, Ben, Thank you both.

1597
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 3: Great to be here.

1598
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, so give us some of the top

1599
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: lines here.

1600
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:59,520
Speaker 8: What we did was, I think we try to investigate

1601
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 8: what was the hunch we all had was that these

1602
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 8: defense contractor funded think tanks were dominating the Ukraine war debate.

1603
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 8: We see it on mainstream media, we see it in

1604
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 8: the New York Times, Washington Post. And what we decided

1605
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 8: to do was investigate whether this was true or not.

1606
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 8: And what we found out was that overwhelmingly, yes, defense

1607
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 8: contractor funded think tanks have been dominating the debate. In fact,

1608
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 8: more than eighty five percent of all think tank media

1609
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 8: mentions come from think tanks that are funded by the

1610
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 8: defense sector. So from this, what we determined was, whenever

1611
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 8: most of your listeners are hearing somebody talk about the

1612
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 8: Ukraine War, if they're front or from a think tank,

1613
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:43,799
Speaker 8: chances are it's a defense contractor funded think.

1614
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 2: Tank, and why is that important? What does that lead to,

1615
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 2: at least in terms of incentives, right, because we've tried

1616
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 2: to look at this previously about the way that debate

1617
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 2: and all of that is formed. I mean, I have

1618
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 2: yet to see a single instance of somebody with a

1619
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 2: dissenting view actually featured in any of these mainstream media,

1620
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 2: either articles or on cable television, which probably even matters

1621
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:09,639
Speaker 2: even more. Yeah.

1622
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:14,639
Speaker 8: Absolutely, if fundamentally biases the discussion, if the only voices

1623
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 8: you're hearing from are voices that are paid, at least

1624
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 8: in part by the defense sector, then chances are the

1625
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 8: thrust of the debate that we're hearing it's really not

1626
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,639
Speaker 8: a debate at all. It's a bunch of different people

1627
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 8: operating in an echo chamber, and that echo chamber is

1628
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 8: being funded by the very businesses that profit from the

1629
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:40,639
Speaker 8: Ukraine War, in profit from a militarized foreign policy in general.

1630
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me read a little bit from what

1631
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: you have here. You say, first, of the twenty seven

1632
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: think tanks whose donors could be identified, twenty one of

1633
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 1: them receive funding from the defense sector. That's seventy seven percent.

1634
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: You had a number of these think tanks where you

1635
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: still don't even know where they're getting their funding. So

1636
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: Lord knows where that money is coming from. And you

1637
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,839
Speaker 1: point out that in articles related to US military involvement

1638
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, media outlets have cited think tanks with financial

1639
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: backing from the defense industry eighty five percent of the time.

1640
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: That seven times is often as think tanks that do

1641
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: not accept funding from Pentagon contractors. I personally don't have

1642
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: a lot of experience in the think tank world, Ben,

1643
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 1: Can you help people understand what would be the shaping

1644
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:28,240
Speaker 1: influences here? Would your average think tank analysts have an

1645
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: understanding of where the money is coming from? Would there

1646
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: be directives coming with that money? How does this all operate?

1647
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, when you work at a think tank, you are,

1648
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 8: at least to some extent, you are captive to the

1649
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 8: folks who are funding that organization. And if you want

1650
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 8: to test this theory as a think tanker, say stop

1651
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 8: your funders disagree with and doing it, and see how

1652
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 8: long that think tank keeps employing you. I assure you

1653
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 8: be a short lived tenure for you. And we've seen

1654
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:07,160
Speaker 8: this over and over and over again. Almost ten years ago,

1655
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 8: the New York Times did a big exposition of think

1656
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 8: tank funding, and what those folks found was was exactly

1657
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 8: this pattern. If folks were saying things that were antithetical

1658
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 8: to the interests of their funders, those individuals were fired

1659
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 8: or their roles were reduced. And repeated studies ever since

1660
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 8: we've seen the same thing happen over and over and

1661
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 8: over again. So when you work at a think tank,

1662
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 8: you know who your funders are, and in case you don't,

1663
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 8: if you write something that is threatening to them, your

1664
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 8: higher ups will let you know who those who those

1665
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 8: funders are and tell you to stop saying those things

1666
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 8: that are offensive to them.

1667
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's really important and it exposes something

1668
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 2: which people should be looking.

1669
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 8: You know.

1670
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:54,760
Speaker 2: The irony too, is, like you said, the New York

1671
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 2: Times understands why this is a problem ten years ago

1672
01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 2: and then proceeds in the middle of Ukraine to go

1673
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 2: ahead and to cite every single one of these people.

1674
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 2: I mean, when is the last time that you saw

1675
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: a real dissenting voice in The New York Times or

1676
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 2: even a dispassionate analysis you know, in any of these articles, Right, Ben.

1677
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 8: Right, that's exactly right. And in the report we looked

1678
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 8: at over a thousand different articles. I mean, this took

1679
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 8: months to put together, and in all of those articles,

1680
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 8: we never saw any acknowledgment from The New York Times,

1681
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 8: the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal that the folks

1682
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,639
Speaker 8: that they were citing were from think tanks that were

1683
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 8: funded by the defense sector. In some cases, they're making

1684
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 8: comments or suggesting the US buy weapons send weapons to

1685
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 8: Ukraine that are made by their funders. This is the

1686
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 8: most direct conflict of interest you can possibly get, and

1687
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 8: yet all of these outlets they're not disclosing that to

1688
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 8: their readers, and according to us. You know, I think

1689
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,719
Speaker 8: anybody would agree that's a disservice to the reader because

1690
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 8: they're only telling part of the story by not revealing

1691
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 8: the funders.

1692
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to underscore that because I think that's

1693
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:08,799
Speaker 1: really important. Bad enough that so many of these analysts

1694
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:12,440
Speaker 1: are coming from think tanks funded by the defense industry.

1695
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 1: Even worse is that New York Times, CNN, whoever is

1696
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 1: hosting this analysis, are not disclosing those very direct conflicts

1697
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:25,839
Speaker 1: of interests. So if you're your average reader, your average

1698
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: viewer of cable news, you have no idea what's going

1699
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. You think these are just dispassionate

1700
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: experts who have nothing at stake in this fight, who

1701
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 1: are just offering their honest opinion, when in reality there's

1702
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: a lot more going on behind the scenes. I think,

1703
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:44,719
Speaker 1: to me, that's as damaging and as damning as anything

1704
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:45,720
Speaker 1: in this report.

1705
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, I completely agree, Crystal. And the other side of

1706
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 8: this that we see too, is that from the think

1707
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:57,839
Speaker 8: tank's point of view, they're publishing their own reports, articles

1708
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 8: and that sort of thing that directly benefit these funders,

1709
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 8: recommend US foreign policy decisions, particularly in Ukraine, that would

1710
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:09,639
Speaker 8: be a great financial benefit to these the defense sector funders,

1711
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 8: and they're not disclosing it. So you read some of

1712
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 8: these articles, you read some of these briefs, you know,

1713
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 8: whether it's from CSIS, Atlantic Council, Center for a New

1714
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 8: American Security, all these heavily defense contractor funded think tanks,

1715
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 8: and they're producing things that look a little better than

1716
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 8: propaganda for the defense sector, and they're not telling their

1717
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 8: readers about it.

1718
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 2: Yep, really, really well said. It's an important thing. It's

1719
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,040
Speaker 2: why it matters to look at Washington and what exactly

1720
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 2: is coming out of it. And we appreciate you joining

1721
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 2: you sir, thank.

1722
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: You, thank you. Yeah, it's our pleasure.

1723
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you guys so much for watching bearing with

1724
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 2: us as we're all from home. It's for a good reason.

1725
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:49,919
Speaker 2: We promised we've got the awesome new set that everybody

1726
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 2: will be taking a look at. As a reminder, Premium

1727
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: subscribers get the very very first look, so take advantage

1728
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 2: of breakingpoints dot com. You can become one of the

1729
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,599
Speaker 2: first people to see it. We will be sending out

1730
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 2: instructions for a big special announcement to all of them

1731
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 2: by email, so Premium members keep an eye.

1732
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 4: On all of that.

1733
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Otherwise, we will see you all tomorrow.

1734
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Love y'all, see you tomorrow.