Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast,
Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators
Speaker 1: are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download
Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store,
Speaker 1: nor where you stand with on X. Okay, we're here
Speaker 1: with Dr Paul Saladino in the first and we'm to
Speaker 1: top about that. I get that right, You got it? Man? Um?
Speaker 1: Why why are we tell people what we're having in
Speaker 1: pillform right now? So my my hope was that I
Speaker 1: would get everybody a little bit buzzed on liver pills
Speaker 1: before we got started on this podcast. So these are
Speaker 1: desiccated organs. The first uh sampling, it's like a tasting,
Speaker 1: like you go to a wine bar, a beer house.
Speaker 1: You've got a sampling, a tasting. So I brought two
Speaker 1: different vintages today. We've got the bone marrow and liver pills.
Speaker 1: Steve is over here sniffing them, smelling mind eating them.
Speaker 1: I have twelve to eat, twelve to eat. So the
Speaker 1: first vintage is bone marrow and liver from grass fed,
Speaker 1: grass finished cattle raised in New Zealand on regenerative farms.
Speaker 1: And the second vintage is beef organs, which consists of heart, liver, kidney, spleen,
Speaker 1: and pancreas from similarly raised cattle in New Zealand. And
Speaker 1: these are super interesting for me because, um, a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't understand how valuable organs are. I think
Speaker 1: as a hunter, you guys probably get this. Or if
Speaker 1: you think about the way that indigenous people and hunter
Speaker 1: gatherers have eaten animals throughout antiquity, they eat them, nose,
Speaker 1: the tail, they eat the whole animal right, nothing is wasted,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the organs are sacred. They're regarded
Speaker 1: as sacred. This New War tribe in Africa. They're super tall,
Speaker 1: even the women are like above six ft. They think
Speaker 1: of liver as too sacred to be touched by human hands.
Speaker 1: But it's just regard. They've they've realized over generations that
Speaker 1: if they feed the organs specifically things like liver and
Speaker 1: spleen and pancreas and heart, their warriors get strong, the
Speaker 1: young people are fertile, they have healthy babies. It's just
Speaker 1: by trial and error they've realized, Hey, there are unique
Speaker 1: nutrients in these organs. And what's so interesting for me
Speaker 1: about this is the way that we become optimally healthy
Speaker 1: humans and how much of this we're missing in our diets.
Speaker 1: So I'm a doctor, I think about nutrition. I think
Speaker 1: about nutritional adequacy, vitamins, minerals, where we get them. And
Speaker 1: one of the most striking things that I've encountered in
Speaker 1: writing this book, the Carnivore Code, we'll talk about it today,
Speaker 1: is that, Hey, a lot of the nutrients that you
Speaker 1: find when you're eating animal meat and organs are pretty
Speaker 1: difficult to find elsewhere in our diets, which really speaks
Speaker 1: to this evolutionary program, this evolutionary blueprint that humans have
Speaker 1: to eat animals and in their entirety throughout our whole existence.
Speaker 1: And so one of the passioning projects that I developed
Speaker 1: was this company called Heart and Soil to make these
Speaker 1: descated organ supplements for people who can't access the organs
Speaker 1: or who don't want to eat the organs. Because if
Speaker 1: you've ever seen a pancreas, it looks like a little alien.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can eat it, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people won't do it. But I still want to be
Speaker 1: able to get people this good nutrition. It's like my
Speaker 1: sister's kids, niece and nephew, and my parents and my grandparents.
Speaker 1: They're probably not gonnaed a pancreas for a spleen, but
Speaker 1: they'll take these pills. And so everybody in this room
Speaker 1: is now getting a little bit buzzed on the unique
Speaker 1: nutrients found in these two rare vintages that I brought
Speaker 1: when I was When I was a little boy, and
Speaker 1: you got into an argument about vegetarianism, you'd be like,
Speaker 1: you can't be a vegetarian because you won't get BE
Speaker 1: twelve right or vegan or whatever. But then I read
Speaker 1: that you get enough B twelve off insect contamination in
Speaker 1: your produce, So like, what is not? But what is
Speaker 1: it that you need? Uh? I got a thousand questions? No,
Speaker 1: queen back, hold that question, okay, because I want yan
Speaker 1: you to to tell you about his special pills. All right, Oh, Steve,
Speaker 1: want me tell you about how I think it was
Speaker 1: our first born. We took the cent, love it and
Speaker 1: had it turned basically into a pill. But yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was like witchcraft and hate the pills. I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't eat. It was kind of like witchcraft more
Speaker 1: than like health right, Like it was like spiritual metaphysical.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like good for your health. Well, I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of I know, I think it was the latter.
Speaker 1: It was meant to be good for your health. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was more like metaphysical in nature. I think it's
Speaker 1: kind of both. I think that a lot of the
Speaker 1: stories around the organs came from observed health benefits. People think, oh,
Speaker 1: we eat the heart, it makes me strong, and that's
Speaker 1: interesting because there's extra coins. I'm key ten and heart.
Speaker 1: So I think the question you were going to ask
Speaker 1: was what are the unique nutrients and animal foods or
Speaker 1: what are they? What do you because I know about
Speaker 1: B twelve right best. Everybody knows that one, right, but
Speaker 1: the list is really really long. This is so fascinating.
Speaker 1: So one of the interesting ideas that I've come across
Speaker 1: in this this sort of this realm of carnivore and
Speaker 1: animal based diets is that if you look at plants
Speaker 1: and you look at what we can get nutritionally from plants,
Speaker 1: there are no nutrients and plants. And this is gonna
Speaker 1: sound crazy, but it's true. There are no nutrients and
Speaker 1: plants that we cannot get from animals if we eat them.
Speaker 1: Nose to tail, meaning if we eat yeah, but the
Speaker 1: reverse is not true. There are so many unique nutrients
Speaker 1: and animal foods eating nose to tail that you cannot
Speaker 1: get from plants. And BE twelve, which is a molecule
Speaker 1: called kobol amen, is just one of them. And it's
Speaker 1: really a myth that you can get enough BE twelve
Speaker 1: to have adequate methylation and all these other physiologic processes
Speaker 1: you need in your body from just animals on your produce.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen. You really should eat animal foods, but
Speaker 1: the list is very long. You guys, sort of creatine creatine,
Speaker 1: and so it's a molecule that your body makes, but
Speaker 1: it only makes a small amount, and you get creatine
Speaker 1: and muscle, meat and liver and things like this, and
Speaker 1: then carnaentine, coaline, carnesceine, and serene toriine. I can talk
Speaker 1: about any of these, Vitamin K two. The list is
Speaker 1: a long. There's probably about nine to ten unique nutrients
Speaker 1: just that we know about that we need to be
Speaker 1: optimal humans, and there's medical studies on all of them
Speaker 1: showing this has this benefit, this has this benefit, and
Speaker 1: we only get them from eating animal organs and meat.
Speaker 1: So a question that will ask people is and this
Speaker 1: is just a question that a doctor would ask somebody
Speaker 1: because it's a nerdy question. Where do you get your
Speaker 1: ribe of flavan? Man? I don't know. I think it's
Speaker 1: been special k don't they advertise? Yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say something Breakfast Cereals something. There's a breakfast cereal company
Speaker 1: that started to introduced Americans to the idea of rival flavor.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I accepted that
Speaker 1: I need it. Right, well, you definitely need it. Rabit
Speaker 1: flav is vitamin B two and if we get it
Speaker 1: in a synthetic form, it's two different molecules. This gets
Speaker 1: a little a little complex. I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too in the weeds here, but there are a lot
Speaker 1: of the molecules. A lot of these vitamins have like
Speaker 1: mirror images when we synthesize them, but in nature they
Speaker 1: only exist is one form. It kind of look. They're
Speaker 1: called a nanti umors, or these mirror images that look
Speaker 1: like your hands. You know, they're not the same image,
Speaker 1: but there there are a mirror image, but you can't
Speaker 1: overlay them right, So there's a they have what's called chirality.
Speaker 1: They're in antiums, and when you synthesize vitamins like riva
Speaker 1: flavor in the lab, you get both in antiumers, but
Speaker 1: in the natural world only one of them is occurring,
Speaker 1: so the riva flavor and you get in liver. Liver
Speaker 1: and heart are the main place that humans have gotten
Speaker 1: ribe of flavoran throughout our evolution, and it's a nutrient
Speaker 1: that's critical for humans to do a process called methylation,
Speaker 1: for our biochemistry to work right, for us to make
Speaker 1: sex hormones and your transmitters, and to have energy metabolism. Basically,
Speaker 1: to feel as good as possible and experience life as
Speaker 1: richly as we can, we need these little micro nutrients.
Speaker 1: And when you get the ribe of flavor made in
Speaker 1: the lab from special K, this other mirror image can
Speaker 1: block what the actual biological molecules supposed to do. So
Speaker 1: the takeaway here is that the real form of the
Speaker 1: vitamin quote unquote, real form that occurs in natural food
Speaker 1: is always better. It's a concept that's not too far
Speaker 1: from our intuition, but it's you know, corroborated by science.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you can get a little ribe of flavor
Speaker 1: or a little bit of full eight from your special
Speaker 1: k but the versions you find in real food, especially
Speaker 1: animal foods, are much more utilized and easily utilized and
Speaker 1: help us become better individuals. I mean, that's what's so
Speaker 1: fascinating to me as a doctor. How do we kick
Speaker 1: the most assess humans? How do we enjoy this life,
Speaker 1: these short eighty five years that we get on this planet.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're lucky, right, if you're lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I start a new guy the other day and his
Speaker 1: dad all of a sudden died at seventy two. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't like here. I'm at the point where I
Speaker 1: don't like hearing that kind of stuff. How old are
Speaker 1: your parents? Well, my mom, my dad died of eighty.
Speaker 1: My mom's eight. You know, Okay, so your parents have
Speaker 1: gotten I mean, your dad lived eighty years, your mom
Speaker 1: has lived a good life. My parents are both seventy.
Speaker 1: And it's thinking you start to think about mortality when
Speaker 1: your parents get close to that that age. And I
Speaker 1: told you I was walking around a graveyard here in
Speaker 1: bos Montana last night. That's what I do when I
Speaker 1: come to new towns. Not all time, but I like
Speaker 1: thinking about that stuff up. And we were looking at
Speaker 1: grave sites from people from eighteen ninety and you know,
Speaker 1: even nineteen o six, and you think what happened? What
Speaker 1: was their life back then like? And mortality is clarifying.
Speaker 1: But they've sat around talking about how this place got
Speaker 1: too crowded and went to ship and you know, you think, wow,
Speaker 1: what was it like? But it also reminds you I'm
Speaker 1: gonna die one day. And I think it's a doctor
Speaker 1: who started out as somebody that just liked to be outside.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of straddling both worlds. I want to live
Speaker 1: as well as I can. And that's why I went
Speaker 1: to medical school was that I enjoyed doing things outside.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed hike in the Pacific Crest Trail. I threw
Speaker 1: hiked it when I was twenty one years old, and
Speaker 1: I've been, you know, like a casual mountaineer for a
Speaker 1: long time. I love backcountry skiing, and I thought, man,
Speaker 1: this is a beautiful life. I love being outdoors. How
Speaker 1: do I do this for as long as possible? I
Speaker 1: want to serve and ski and climb ounce for as
Speaker 1: long as possible. And that's why I think human health
Speaker 1: is fascinating. And I think that if we can understand
Speaker 1: how humans are really programmed to eat. We get to
Speaker 1: do the those things longer. You guys get to go
Speaker 1: on expeditions longer and hunt animals in a beautiful way,
Speaker 1: and you just get to have more fun in life
Speaker 1: when you get your ribe of flavor. Yeah. I remember
Speaker 1: reading about um hide hunters like commercial hunters on the
Speaker 1: Texas planes and how there's there's there's a reference to
Speaker 1: how they would just eat like the finer cuts on
Speaker 1: animals and they would get nutrient deficiencies and they had
Speaker 1: to learn um they had learned he had to eat
Speaker 1: all this stuff, had to eat the organs, and they
Speaker 1: would like put bile, they would put bile on meat
Speaker 1: and do all these things. Just eat as much stuff
Speaker 1: as they could, and they found that they would get
Speaker 1: better health than if they were just eating like just
Speaker 1: eating backstrap exactly like the tongues. And that happens today too.
Speaker 1: I mean we see that over and over and within
Speaker 1: the carnivore animal based community, you see that. I work
Speaker 1: with people who just eat the muscle meat because that's
Speaker 1: all we're really used to today, and they get full
Speaker 1: eight deficiency and you get all kinds of things that
Speaker 1: don't really go that well, but if he knows the tail,
Speaker 1: you feel really good, which is why a lot of
Speaker 1: times when people do things like the desiccated liver supplements
Speaker 1: or eat fresh liver, they get a little buzz. So
Speaker 1: any minute now the buzz is going to be kicking
Speaker 1: in for you guys. So you guys are probably pretty good,
Speaker 1: you're tuned in. But this is I think that what's
Speaker 1: so interesting is these trappers, these hide hunters, didn't understand
Speaker 1: what the Native Americans did, right, because the Native Americans
Speaker 1: knew that they ate these animals, these animal organs. They
Speaker 1: ate the animal fat, they ate the kidney fat, which
Speaker 1: we call the suett the perinetric fat. They ate the
Speaker 1: gall bladder. There's all these stories of kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: indigenous cultures using the gall bladder like salt because it's salty,
Speaker 1: and they'll squirt the bile on meat and stuff, and
Speaker 1: there's valuable nutrients throughout it. But it makes all of
Speaker 1: us kind of go d it's gross. And so I
Speaker 1: really think that a lot of the illness that we
Speaker 1: suffer today as humans, a lot of the chronic disease,
Speaker 1: a lot of the non optimal living that we do,
Speaker 1: it is because of these nutrient deficiencies. And so that's
Speaker 1: why it's cool to get to do this work, because
Speaker 1: it's so awesome to get an email back from somebody
Speaker 1: who's who says things like I have so much more energy,
Speaker 1: my libido is better, I lost weight, I can sleep now,
Speaker 1: or my autoimmune disease went away. When they make dietary changes,
Speaker 1: the first of which is probably including these organs in
Speaker 1: their diet. And we can talk about other dietary changes
Speaker 1: you might make to get that way. But that's what's
Speaker 1: really cool, and it's this sort of ancestral wisdom that's
Speaker 1: been lost. I I gotta hear my first question before
Speaker 1: we get into details, and no one I want to
Speaker 1: talk about your diet too. But here's my first question.
Speaker 1: Is there's a criticism of American society today that we
Speaker 1: don't agree on, that we no longer agree on the
Speaker 1: objective realities, right, that there's two versions of truth um
Speaker 1: or multiple versions of truth. When I think that we
Speaker 1: have this nostalgic attitude that once upon a time there
Speaker 1: was only like one version of truth, and I wonder
Speaker 1: is it infiltrated diet? Like I don't remember when I
Speaker 1: was a little kid, I don't remember there being like
Speaker 1: two versions of what healthy. What was healthy? I think
Speaker 1: everybody knew, like the food pyramid, and they're sort of like,
Speaker 1: I get it, I'm not gonna do it, but I
Speaker 1: accept that that's correct. But we've now entered into a
Speaker 1: spot where you can have a version of reality being
Speaker 1: that meats really bad for you, and it's healthy to
Speaker 1: be a vegetarian because meat kills you, and that's by
Speaker 1: some people accepted like, well, no, that's that's objectively true,
Speaker 1: that's categorically true. You might choose to eat meat because
Speaker 1: you don't have self control or you're a glutton or whatever,
Speaker 1: but we all know that that's right. And then you
Speaker 1: have another group of people being like, oh no, no no, no, no,
Speaker 1: fat and meat, it's an objective reality that it's good
Speaker 1: for you. You might not do that because you have
Speaker 1: a sugar addiction or you have a problem with animal ethics,
Speaker 1: but we all know that this is actually true. Like
Speaker 1: how do people pick? Like who's right? There's only one
Speaker 1: where you so so right, there there's one, but who's
Speaker 1: who's is the one? That's why I do what I do, man,
Speaker 1: That's why I do what I do. I think that
Speaker 1: truth is truth is what we're after. And I really
Speaker 1: love you bring this up because I think this is
Speaker 1: a little bit of an insidious notion that there are
Speaker 1: multiple versions of truth. There's only one version of truth,
Speaker 1: and either what I'm saying is right or what the
Speaker 1: plant based people are saying is right. And that's why
Speaker 1: I do what I do, because I believe with every
Speaker 1: fiber of my being that humans have been eating meat
Speaker 1: throughout our entire evolution. We can get into this and
Speaker 1: that it's essential for human health. And in the book
Speaker 1: and the Carnivore Code, I break down why have we
Speaker 1: been told that meat is not bad, not good for us? Right?
Speaker 1: I can tell you why it's not good for you? Well,
Speaker 1: can get like get what else it to? Elvis Presley
Speaker 1: died and they found a giant burger and his coling
Speaker 1: like you can't digest. But I always feel like why
Speaker 1: do I feel? I always wonder why I feel so
Speaker 1: good when you eat something that's so bad for you,
Speaker 1: Like I like, I don't even know that I'm dying,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I'm great. You feel amazing. And
Speaker 1: I hear that all the time from people who email
Speaker 1: me at hard and Soil because you know you can
Speaker 1: email me there if you have questions. And people say,
Speaker 1: I feel so good when I eat liver, I get high,
Speaker 1: I get a little buzz, I I feel these nutrients.
Speaker 1: And conversely, there's a little bit there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of selection bias here in terms of who emails me
Speaker 1: with these stories. People email me and say, hey, doc,
Speaker 1: my my doctor recommended that I go on a plant
Speaker 1: based diet because X Y Z and I just feel
Speaker 1: like garbage. My energy is down and don't feel good.
Speaker 1: I'm gaining weight, And I go, yeah, it's because you're
Speaker 1: eating the junk. You're eating survival food. So that's why
Speaker 1: I do what I do is because I feel like
Speaker 1: there are objective truths that need to be understood, and
Speaker 1: so probably for the rest of my life, this will
Speaker 1: be my life's work, is helping people of all walks
Speaker 1: of life, of all vocations understand the science that I've seen.
Speaker 1: And I'll be debating vegans and plant based people forever, forever,
Speaker 1: trying to help people understand that what they're saying, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, is so badly mistaken and the reason you're misled.
Speaker 1: I suppose you understand this, but the reason a lot
Speaker 1: of people are mislead is because of epidemiology, and we
Speaker 1: can get into what that is and why the science
Speaker 1: is not all the same, but there's it's not being
Speaker 1: sold to us accurately. We're being told things that are
Speaker 1: based on studies that are servational, they're not actually interventional,
Speaker 1: real science, and it's very hard for someone that's not
Speaker 1: a medical doctor or a medical researcher to understand that.
Speaker 1: So we are being misled. And what's cool is that
Speaker 1: I think that people will eventually realize what you've realized.
Speaker 1: If you eat animal meat and organs from well raised animals,
Speaker 1: you are going to thrive. You're gonna feel good, your
Speaker 1: kids are gonna be healthy, you're gonna be fertile, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have a healthy baby. Your depression might get better.
Speaker 1: I've seen autoimmune disease get better. And you're gonna go,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's so much cognitive ausness here. How
Speaker 1: can this be bad for me? And I want to
Speaker 1: be the voice or one of the voices who says
Speaker 1: it's not bad for you, and that spark comes on
Speaker 1: in your brain and you go, of course, it's not
Speaker 1: bad for me. I'm being misled. This is bad information.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily believe that there are evil people out
Speaker 1: there or that they're trying to do harm. I just
Speaker 1: think that people are not they're not thinking about it properly.
Speaker 1: In the plant based world, where did it come from?
Speaker 1: Like where, Like I don't even know what year it
Speaker 1: was or approximately the all of a sudden that because
Speaker 1: I grew up thinking, you know what, if I just
Speaker 1: a broccoli probably every day, all day, maybe an apple,
Speaker 1: I'd be like the ma is healthiest person in the world, right,
Speaker 1: Like because the food pyramid? Man? Was it just the
Speaker 1: food pyramid? That's the earliest thing I remember is you
Speaker 1: had to like fill in that little pyramid. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I'm guessing. But where is
Speaker 1: this as a society did it? I think we know
Speaker 1: it because if you go back to its three generations,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that way, right, you go back to your
Speaker 1: parents parents, they understood that meat was valuable, and that
Speaker 1: meat was something that was more expensive because it was
Speaker 1: more valuable nutritionally. It's really only in the last seventy years,
Speaker 1: and you can trace it back to ansel keys in
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. There's a series of epidemiology studies that
Speaker 1: were done that began to vilify saturated fat, and I
Speaker 1: was just about to do that. So epidemiology is observational research.
Speaker 1: It's a survey. They're going to take a thousand or
Speaker 1: ten thousand people in hand them a survey that says,
Speaker 1: what did you eat for the last ten years, how
Speaker 1: much McDonald's, how many steaks, how many French fries, how
Speaker 1: many of these things? You know, how many things did
Speaker 1: you eat like this? And then they're gonna look at
Speaker 1: how healthy those people are. And in Western countries, in
Speaker 1: Western countries, that's a really important point because I'll contrast
Speaker 1: it with Eastern countries in a moment. But in Western countries,
Speaker 1: if you do that epidemiology today and like we've been
Speaker 1: doing it for the last fifty to sixty years, oftentimes
Speaker 1: you will see an association, a correlation between people eating
Speaker 1: red meat and adverse health outcomes. But we know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we know, correlation does not causation make We can't draw
Speaker 1: a causative inference from a correlation. And these epidemiology studies,
Speaker 1: these observational studies, were never meant to do that. They
Speaker 1: were meant to degenerate a hypothesis, a guess which you
Speaker 1: then test with interventional studies, And interventional studies with red
Speaker 1: meat have been done, they're just never talked about on
Speaker 1: the evening news. We'll get to those. They don't show
Speaker 1: any problems with meat, But the epidemiology studies show often
Speaker 1: not all the time, but often in Western countries with
Speaker 1: Western narratives, that meat is associated with bad outcomes. Now
Speaker 1: here's the question I have for you, guys. How many
Speaker 1: times have you you've been to a barbecue and seen
Speaker 1: someone only eat meat? They just eat a hamburger patty.
Speaker 1: They don't need anything else with it. There's no catchup,
Speaker 1: there's no bun, there's no mayonnaise, there's no French fries,
Speaker 1: there's no cold slaw, there's no potato salad. How many
Speaker 1: times you ever seen that happen? How many times have
Speaker 1: you ever seen someone walking to McDonald's and just get
Speaker 1: a hamburger patty five year old and bought him a
Speaker 1: hot dog and only gave him the hot dog. You
Speaker 1: might see that result, right, right, maybe, but he might
Speaker 1: eat the bun. He might you might wonder later like
Speaker 1: what happened to the bunks? He's just standing there at
Speaker 1: the hot I think at the height of atkins. I
Speaker 1: might have seen it once for a restaurant or someone
Speaker 1: literally just ate two two hamburger patties on that plate. Right,
Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but you get my point, right,
Speaker 1: People who eat meat generally we because we have been told,
Speaker 1: because you guys have heard this narrative. You just told me.
Speaker 1: We've been told a narrative throughout our whole life for
Speaker 1: the last sixty years that red meat is bad for you.
Speaker 1: So who eats red meat. It's people that are out
Speaker 1: there and they're ape hangers on the harley with tats
Speaker 1: and the Hell's Angels or the hot you know, wild hogs.
Speaker 1: They're doing other rebellious stuff. They're looking at this health
Speaker 1: advice and going, I don't care about health advice. I'm
Speaker 1: going to discard that health advice and every other piece
Speaker 1: of health advice there is. I'm not going to exercise,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get a colonoscope or a mammograham. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna smoke, I'm gonna ride this motorcycle. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: get in the sun. I'm gonna eat French fries with
Speaker 1: my hamburgers, drink alcohol. And so this is the problem.
Speaker 1: You can't epidemiology studies cannot differentiate the meat from everything
Speaker 1: that gets eaten with the meat. And how often do
Speaker 1: things get eaten with the meat that might also be
Speaker 1: causing problems. And we can get into this, and I
Speaker 1: think that the real the real problem, and this will
Speaker 1: be interesting free listeners here. The real problem is not
Speaker 1: the meat. It's not the liver, it's not the hamburgers.
Speaker 1: The real problem is the processed food. And the reason
Speaker 1: the processed food is bad is because of process vegetable oils.
Speaker 1: And we can get into that when the time has come.
Speaker 1: But fast is vegged boils and little leic acid, like
Speaker 1: this is the real thing driving problems. And if you
Speaker 1: look at meat, it is so often eaten with vegetable oils,
Speaker 1: and so many processed foods have these vegetable oils and
Speaker 1: the linoleic acid, which is a complex word in there.
Speaker 1: So that's a alto the rabbit hole we have to
Speaker 1: go down. But the point is people eat a lot
Speaker 1: of junk food. They had a lot of sugar, they
Speaker 1: eat a lot of bread, need a lot of alcohol
Speaker 1: and cigarettes with meat, and epidemiology can't differentiate. But every
Speaker 1: time you or I or anyone, here's on the news
Speaker 1: red meat is associated with X. That word is associated.
Speaker 1: You will never hear on the news red meat causes
Speaker 1: because if you actually look at the interventional studies, the
Speaker 1: studies where they actually go to a laboratory or they
Speaker 1: take people and they do they do an interventional trial.
Speaker 1: They'll take a hundred people and they're saying, okay, this
Speaker 1: study has actually been done and I referenced it in
Speaker 1: the book. They said, okay, we want you to remove
Speaker 1: we want you to remove two fifty calories from your
Speaker 1: diet of carbohydrates, and we're gonna have you put in
Speaker 1: eight ounces of red meat per day. And they follow
Speaker 1: those people with the control groups. They have two groups.
Speaker 1: One group has eight ounces of red meat half a pound,
Speaker 1: pretty substantial amount of red meat in their diet extra
Speaker 1: per day. The other group has diet as usual and
Speaker 1: they follow them for eight, six, ten weeks and they
Speaker 1: look at the end of the study, the group with
Speaker 1: more red meat is better. They have lower inflammatory markers,
Speaker 1: lower inflammatory market. I'm getting the buzzs. I can't tell
Speaker 1: if it's from the liver pills or because of what
Speaker 1: you're telling because you're so excited about meat. Well, many
Speaker 1: things given me a buzz and you haven't even gotten
Speaker 1: into it yet. But um, I recently switched and started cooking.
Speaker 1: When I fry fish, I fry it and be fat,
Speaker 1: don't I switched. And here's the thing. Every time I
Speaker 1: fired that thing up, I feel guilty, but I also
Speaker 1: feel like, but I just want this. I like it
Speaker 1: better and it's better. But I feel like something the
Speaker 1: back of my heads tell me I'm being bad, and
Speaker 1: I'm always doing like what I think it makes sense.
Speaker 1: It's like, there's what I think, like as a human
Speaker 1: being who studies sort of human history, world history, whatever,
Speaker 1: like I do things that I think makes sense, right,
Speaker 1: I can just see it, But then I'm always in
Speaker 1: the back of my head is like that someone told
Speaker 1: me that it's bad, but it goes against what my
Speaker 1: general tendency would be. Like if I could take an
Speaker 1: animal and it has fat on it and nothing's just
Speaker 1: been out like feeding on grass, it has fat, and
Speaker 1: I make an oil from that, It's like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to picture that. That's worse for
Speaker 1: me than some ship a chemist made, and it's it's
Speaker 1: just hard for me to get there. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: but I have to accept that it's true, because I've
Speaker 1: been told kind of exactly. And so before nineteen eleven,
Speaker 1: there was no such thing as vegetable oil. In fact,
Speaker 1: before eighteen sixty five, So in eighteen sixty five, cotton
Speaker 1: seed oil was made from cotton seeds. These are not food.
Speaker 1: Nobody eats cotton seeds. In nineteen eleven, Crisco was founded
Speaker 1: and they started making vegetable oil. And ever since, between
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five and nineteen eleven, human health got a
Speaker 1: little bit worse. But between nineteen eleven and now we've
Speaker 1: just absolutely we've tanked. If you look at the rates
Speaker 1: of diabetes, if you look at the rates of chronic disease,
Speaker 1: they are skyrocketing in the last hundred years, and they're
Speaker 1: really going up since the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1: And so vegetable oil was not even a thing. It
Speaker 1: didn't even exist. Our ancestors, our parents and grandparents really
Speaker 1: are great grandparents. And like the early eighteen hundreds, all
Speaker 1: those people who died and they were in that cemetery
Speaker 1: last night that I saw who died in eighteen eighty,
Speaker 1: they were not eating vegetable oil. It didn't even exist.
Speaker 1: They were eating tallow and lard, and the pigs that
Speaker 1: were making that large we're not fed on corn and soy.
Speaker 1: They were just fed on you know, things pigs are
Speaker 1: supposed to eat, but the talents, grasshoppers and carrots, and
Speaker 1: you know, they were just doing things wild hogs are
Speaker 1: supposed to eat. And those ancestral animal fats are what
Speaker 1: are treasured in indigenous cultures. And that's what we see
Speaker 1: over and over that there was really in the medical literature.
Speaker 1: There was really no such thing as a heart attack
Speaker 1: until the realties early nineteen ten, that type of region,
Speaker 1: and we didn't even think about heart attacks and as
Speaker 1: American people until the nineteen fifties when Eisenhower, I believe,
Speaker 1: had his heart attack. So it's just been it's a
Speaker 1: new invention. It didn't even happen when we were eating
Speaker 1: animal fats. But people used to in the old days,
Speaker 1: people like when I was even like my grandparents, you
Speaker 1: just people used to say that he died of old age.
Speaker 1: But I think now we just putting names to it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to sameing people died of old age. Well, people,
Speaker 1: no one dies old agian more. Now they die from
Speaker 1: something very specific that was like diagnosed, right, but you
Speaker 1: just bucket at all as being Yeah, so I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. If people were dying in heart attacks,
Speaker 1: they're just dying. They get old and died and no
Speaker 1: one knew why they died. Well, I think that what
Speaker 1: what we knew of medicine then was different. But even
Speaker 1: in the early nine hundreds, there was really no no
Speaker 1: heart attack in the medical literature. People didn't like go
Speaker 1: and say, oh my god, I have so much pain
Speaker 1: in my chest. You know, people didn't have that. They
Speaker 1: would die in ammonia or infections or things like that.
Speaker 1: But heart attacks are I mean, we we could tell
Speaker 1: when the heart arteries are blocked, or you could tell
Speaker 1: if if somebody has like this heart attack and they
Speaker 1: have this pain in their chest. It just wasn't even
Speaker 1: something that we recorded until then. And even in the
Speaker 1: early thirties it was rare. As we were getting more
Speaker 1: and more medical knowledge and getting a sense of the
Speaker 1: heart and how it worked, and then over time it
Speaker 1: just got to be more and more common. And so
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Steve. Vegetable oil is completely synthetic and
Speaker 1: something humans would have never eaten, and the amount of
Speaker 1: this fatty acid in there, literally like acid is really
Speaker 1: giving our bodies this evolutionarily inconsistent, ignally causing massive problems.
Speaker 1: Not to mention that because of the molecular structure this oil,
Speaker 1: it oxidizes, it becomes rancid very quickly, and in order
Speaker 1: for us to eat it and not notice that and
Speaker 1: not just spit it out because it tastes like garbage,
Speaker 1: it has to be bleached and deodorized. But you're right,
Speaker 1: it's made in a lab. If you look at the
Speaker 1: way vegetable oil is made, there's nothing there's nothing natural.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, you know, even that that our answers could
Speaker 1: have ever done with that. Our answers could have never
Speaker 1: ground a cotton seed or a rape seed, or you know,
Speaker 1: a soybean into oil. They could have never done these things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask. Yeah, olive oil is different.
Speaker 1: So when I think about oils, I think about and
Speaker 1: again I don't want to get too technical, but I
Speaker 1: think about the linoleic acid content in that oil. Linoleic
Speaker 1: acid is an omega six polyon saturated fat, and olive
Speaker 1: oil is about ten lintilic acid and it's mostly mono
Speaker 1: one saturated fat. Which is oleic acid, which is actually
Speaker 1: a fat that our body makes, is an eighteen carbon
Speaker 1: monoe saturated fat called oleic acid. We don't make linoleic
Speaker 1: acid in the human body. We need a small amount,
Speaker 1: but we store extra, which means when you're eating foods
Speaker 1: that are drenched and vegetable oil, you're storing and storing
Speaker 1: and storing it, and that leads to major problems. So
Speaker 1: olive oil is isn't isn't much better oil to eat.
Speaker 1: I think that I'm with Steve. I only eat tallow.
Speaker 1: I want to eat animal fats because that's going to
Speaker 1: have more of the nutrients. But olive oil is probably
Speaker 1: even better than vegetable oil. But if you're gonna cook
Speaker 1: in an oil, you gotta be a little careful. You
Speaker 1: don't want to eat it too much. But this is
Speaker 1: the point that a lot of the foods that were
Speaker 1: told are healthy for us are completely contrived. I mean,
Speaker 1: kale has the best publicist in the whole world. When
Speaker 1: did we start thinking that broccoli and kale were healthy?
Speaker 1: So I just want to go back and complete. I
Speaker 1: want to go back and completely laughing as we got
Speaker 1: like I got like a kale pass you wouldn't begin
Speaker 1: to comprehend in my garden and um, and we were
Speaker 1: talking about how kale like growing up whatever, you didn't
Speaker 1: pay attention to it. Well, holy ship, people are high
Speaker 1: on kale. People like kale. It's kind of good publicist, man.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't love you back. And we can talk
Speaker 1: about why. But you were saying something earlier about broccoli,
Speaker 1: and that narrative is what's been told to all of us.
Speaker 1: And so there's both the unhealthy user bias, which is
Speaker 1: all the people who are eating red meat and all
Speaker 1: this other bad stuff and all the people who are
Speaker 1: eating vegetables are doing all the healthy stuff. And so
Speaker 1: you see it over and over in Western cultures. But
Speaker 1: if you if you look at epidemiology done in Asia,
Speaker 1: and there's two studies in the book I mentioned with
Speaker 1: over probably close to three thousand people between both studies.
Speaker 1: If you look in Asia, the men who eat the
Speaker 1: most red meat have the lowest rates of heart disease
Speaker 1: and the women who eat the most red meat have
Speaker 1: the lowest rates of cancer. Is red meat has read
Speaker 1: meat good for Asians is good, you know, and and
Speaker 1: bad for Westerners. No, the narrative is completely different. The
Speaker 1: narrative because in Asia, red meat is associated with affluence.
Speaker 1: Was I was thinking this might be That's where it
Speaker 1: might red meat is affluence, so he eats red meat.
Speaker 1: The people that are affluent, the people that are gonna
Speaker 1: actually think about health behaviors, the people that have a
Speaker 1: higher socio economic status, which allows more care to doctors,
Speaker 1: which is going to give better health outcomes. So that's
Speaker 1: the huge thing that we're seeing with epidemiology. It's telling
Speaker 1: us about a cultural narrative. We can generate a hypothesis
Speaker 1: and we have to test it, and those tests have
Speaker 1: been done, but they don't get on the news. And
Speaker 1: the tests clearly show red meat and organs are not
Speaker 1: bad for humans, and why would they be. We've been
Speaker 1: eating them for millions of years. Can you touch on
Speaker 1: something real quick? I mean you made the point great
Speaker 1: by wat double background on it where you're talking about
Speaker 1: the correlation causation thing. Um, I read a great explanation
Speaker 1: this once for some group was putting out how pet
Speaker 1: owners live longer, insinuating that, right, go get a pet
Speaker 1: and you'll live longer. Remember reading like a sort of
Speaker 1: deconstruction of what that meant about. Well, let's take a
Speaker 1: look at pet owners in America versus non pet owners
Speaker 1: in America. There are a lot of things that are
Speaker 1: sort of in the package of pet owners that they
Speaker 1: tend to have a home and some amount of expendable
Speaker 1: income and on and on and on and so yes,
Speaker 1: I would believe that that's true. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: owning the pet that is making you live longer. Like,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you describe that? Like that
Speaker 1: problem that people run into. There's an amazing website called
Speaker 1: Spurious Correlations dot com that's this very well, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get at. Spurious correlations. Spurious correlations, And
Speaker 1: I have a graphic, a couple of graphics of this
Speaker 1: in the book. And you can see this correlation between
Speaker 1: the divorce rate and Maine and the per capita margarine consumption,
Speaker 1: and they're very highly correlated. They're extremely highly correlated. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's in the book. Yeah. The idea with maine and
Speaker 1: and the margarine is they're highly correlated. But are we
Speaker 1: thinking that if people eat less margine, they're gonna get
Speaker 1: divorced less? No, it makes no sense. It's just there
Speaker 1: are things that happen in the world that are correlated
Speaker 1: that have no actual cause of relationship. I mean, the
Speaker 1: most hilarious one that's always quoted is the number of
Speaker 1: movies Nicholas Cage appears in is highly correlated with, Like
Speaker 1: I think it's something morbid like death, hangings by suicide
Speaker 1: or something like that. And so you can see it.
Speaker 1: There's these charts are in that website, so you can
Speaker 1: and people would say, okay, nicknas Cage movies are causing people.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people, a lot of people kill themselves. Right,
Speaker 1: it's a highly correlated fact, but it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: they cause the same thing. You have to really break
Speaker 1: it down. You generate a hypothesis and then you test it.
Speaker 1: And when you really get to the nitty gritty and
Speaker 1: you do the test, red meat is not harmful to humans.
Speaker 1: But we never hear about that, And why would it be?
Speaker 1: Why would a food And this is the kind of
Speaker 1: this is the way that I think about this, and
Speaker 1: I think you guys get this because you think about
Speaker 1: it the same way. Why would something that has made
Speaker 1: up the majority of the human diet that is crucial,
Speaker 1: that caused all these unique nutrients that we were talking
Speaker 1: about about the beginning of the show. I mean like,
Speaker 1: you can't get beat twelve without eating meat. You can't
Speaker 1: get colline and any significant amount without eating meat. You
Speaker 1: can't be a an optimally functioning human without eating meat.
Speaker 1: Why would it be bad for us? There's an amazing
Speaker 1: set of studies where they gave vegetarians creatine. So creatine
Speaker 1: is this muscle. It's a muscle derived molecule. It's a
Speaker 1: molecule we find in the muscle in the brain that
Speaker 1: holds onto a phosphate groups so it can donate. It's
Speaker 1: a t P which is the energy currency of the body.
Speaker 1: So we needed to think and run neurons and flex
Speaker 1: muscles and things like this. When they give extra creatine
Speaker 1: to vegetarians, they get smarter, They do better on memory
Speaker 1: and recall tasks and court card sorting tasks. They get
Speaker 1: smarter because they're creating deficient in their vegan and vegetarian diet.
Speaker 1: Why would a food that provides us with all of
Speaker 1: these unique nutrients be bad for us. This makes no sense,
Speaker 1: and it begins to kind of crystallize when you think
Speaker 1: about epidemiology. That's why we've been so misled, you know,
Speaker 1: I think part of where it comes from you'll you'll
Speaker 1: know is better than I do. But unexplained with using
Speaker 1: a different example. Um, there's a group called the Wildlife
Speaker 1: Conservation Society, okay, and they've always been opposed to UM,
Speaker 1: wildlife trafficking Okay, So particularly trafficking and endangered species have
Speaker 1: always resisted on a conservation standpoint. They've opposed you know,
Speaker 1: markets that sell like illicit wildlife materials, okay, tiger hides,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, panda bear clause. What have you um?
Speaker 1: When COVID hit, they took a new tact where they're like,
Speaker 1: see wildlife, we told you wildlife markets are bad. It
Speaker 1: gave us COVID, but it was like, I know that
Speaker 1: you believe wildlife markets are bad, but you've always said
Speaker 1: wildlife markets are bad because it encourages illicit trade and
Speaker 1: endangered species. You could point out to me that here's
Speaker 1: another reason, but you can't have it be that the
Speaker 1: whole reason switched and now we should hate wildlife markets
Speaker 1: because what you really want is you want wildlife markets
Speaker 1: to go away because you're trying to protect endangered species.
Speaker 1: You're now being opportunistic by attaching your argument to COVID transmission.
Speaker 1: And I think that a big Like much of the
Speaker 1: anti I think much of the anti meat thing is
Speaker 1: they're saying, I don't want people to be mean to animals.
Speaker 1: I don't want that would be animal exploitation. Um, that's
Speaker 1: only gonna fly with so many people. My message will
Speaker 1: resonate with far more people if I could make a
Speaker 1: health thing. And I think that's like a huge part
Speaker 1: of this. It's a it's a very big part of it.
Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people in the
Speaker 1: plant based space, I believe are well intentioned. I just
Speaker 1: think that they're not thinking about the studies properly, and
Speaker 1: if you ask them, a lot of them do believe
Speaker 1: morally that the consumption of animals is not a good thing.
Speaker 1: And those are sticky arguments to get into with people.
Speaker 1: I think that I try because I yeah, because I've hunted.
Speaker 1: And I'll just state at a high level that if
Speaker 1: you look at the regenerative agriculture space, which is grass feeding,
Speaker 1: grass finishing of cows, and regenerative you know, rotational grazing,
Speaker 1: that's essentially the way that bison and other ruminants have
Speaker 1: always lived on the plains, and that that is carbon negative,
Speaker 1: meaning it's sequesters more carbon into the soil than those
Speaker 1: animals produce, and that's been the main that's been one
Speaker 1: argument is sort of the the environmental argument. So to
Speaker 1: say that owls are killing the planet is completely false
Speaker 1: because they're not. It's just how they manufacture cow me
Speaker 1: these days. In some sense, yes, but it's very it's
Speaker 1: a deep rabbit hole because that also is very misleading
Speaker 1: as well. And there's been conflation of data from the
Speaker 1: f A O versus the e p A, And in
Speaker 1: my book, I have a graphic of e p A
Speaker 1: data showing that if you look at tail pipes and
Speaker 1: tailpipe quote unquote, meaning if you look at the amount
Speaker 1: of methane emissions in carbon dioxide equivalence, those are two
Speaker 1: different molecules that if you look at the amount of
Speaker 1: methane and carbon dioxide equivalence that comes out of a
Speaker 1: cow versus what comes out of a tail pipe in
Speaker 1: the United States, there's of a car. Those are essentially
Speaker 1: tailpipe to tailpipe. There is no comparison, no comparison cars
Speaker 1: and trucks and transportation is of the U S greenhouse
Speaker 1: gas emissions. In two thousand sixteen, when this ep A
Speaker 1: data came out and ruminants are one point nine percent,
Speaker 1: and that includes even the k fos, the clustered animal
Speaker 1: feeding operations. But I agree with you, you're talking about
Speaker 1: one one point nine percent. Now, this is u S
Speaker 1: data from the e p A and its tailpipe tailpipe.
Speaker 1: What's so misleading is people will show data and plant
Speaker 1: based circles with from the f a O. And the
Speaker 1: f a O did a survey and they looked at
Speaker 1: you worldwide data and they took life cycle analysis of
Speaker 1: a cow and compared it to tailpipe emissions of a car.
Speaker 1: Lifecycle analysis means how many carbon dioxide equivalents do we
Speaker 1: do we use up or do we put in the
Speaker 1: atmosphere in the whole life cycle of the cow. Well,
Speaker 1: if we have to put them on a truck and
Speaker 1: move them somewhere, what about the amount of carbon it
Speaker 1: takes to run the factory that has to slaughter them.
Speaker 1: What about the carbon it takes to run the store
Speaker 1: that sells it to you. You know, that's the life
Speaker 1: cycle of a cow in terms of carbon dioxide equivalents,
Speaker 1: and they're comparing that to what comes out of the
Speaker 1: tailpipe of a car. No one's ever done a life
Speaker 1: cycle analysis. Oh well, well, they've they've never they've done that,
Speaker 1: but they've never done lifecycle analysis of what comes out
Speaker 1: of the end of your car. They've never done lifecycle
Speaker 1: analysis of petroleum and transportation. So nobody knows. And this
Speaker 1: is what's so crazy. And I really think that the
Speaker 1: transportation industries are protecting themselves because they are hugely contributing
Speaker 1: to this in a big way. You know, if you've
Speaker 1: how much carbon dioxide equivalent or how much I mean,
Speaker 1: they're sitting there going it's not us, it's the cows,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And nobody's ever looked at the life cycle
Speaker 1: of a plane or a train or a car drag
Speaker 1: and all that metal out of the ground making roads.
Speaker 1: You know how much it costs to maintain the car,
Speaker 1: how much it cost to do the part. It's how
Speaker 1: much it costs over the life cycle of the exactly right.
Speaker 1: So all we come that nobody's done that. All we
Speaker 1: can look at is tailpipe to tailpipe. And any PhD
Speaker 1: students sitting out there looking for a dissertation, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna get funding. Don't ask the auto industruper funding. Nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna fund that, you know, because they don't want you
Speaker 1: to know, so I'd be curious to hear from you
Speaker 1: guys about your experiences with hunting. But I've haunted a
Speaker 1: small amount, but I've found it very spiritual, and I
Speaker 1: don't mean that to sound flipping. So I've haunted deer
Speaker 1: three seasons now with my bow, and I've gotten a
Speaker 1: deer twice, and both times that I've killed a deer
Speaker 1: with my bow, it's been one of the most memorable
Speaker 1: experiences my life. And the first thing I think of is,
Speaker 1: holy sh it, I better live a good life because
Speaker 1: this is a responsibility. This dear gave itself to me.
Speaker 1: This is an incredibly, incredibly privileged position that I am
Speaker 1: in to eat the most hutritious food on the planet.
Speaker 1: And this is a this is a requirement. This is
Speaker 1: an ask from however you think about the universe and
Speaker 1: God and the spirituality in our place and all of it.
Speaker 1: This is this is sort of life asking me to
Speaker 1: be a good person. What I've realized from the work
Speaker 1: I read this one the Tom Brown's book. You read
Speaker 1: The Tracker Tom Brown, You read that, yeah, grandfather, and
Speaker 1: point in that book says, in order for something to live,
Speaker 1: something else must die. And it's so true. You know
Speaker 1: that the lion on the planes doesn't feel bad about
Speaker 1: killing the antelope. It's what it must do to live.
Speaker 1: And it's part of the cycle of life. We're all
Speaker 1: gonna die. I'm gonna be food for worms one day.
Speaker 1: And if I'm out hiking it's on bobcat or cougar
Speaker 1: decides to try and take me, I'm gonna fight. But
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'm part of the circle of life too,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to accept that. And so it's the
Speaker 1: it's the human burden. The human burden is um is
Speaker 1: that like no other species has any remorse, any even
Speaker 1: any even compassion for suffering. It's just amazingly and would
Speaker 1: tell you otherwise to watch predators kill ship man, dude,
Speaker 1: it just they just don't. I'm not criticizing them. I mean,
Speaker 1: God bless him, but um, it's not that they're not
Speaker 1: like I'm going to go in there and make a good,
Speaker 1: clean kill. You know, it's just not on their mind, man.
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting thing to think about, but that's
Speaker 1: the way I imagine it. And so when people, I think,
Speaker 1: if someone wants to want chooses not to the animals
Speaker 1: because they don't want to cause suffering. I think that's
Speaker 1: your choice. You know, that's your moral choice, and you
Speaker 1: have to be careful about how it's going to affect
Speaker 1: your own health. And will you come hunting with me
Speaker 1: or somebody who has more experienced with me and see
Speaker 1: what it's about and see what the responsibility is like
Speaker 1: and realize that this is how we do what we
Speaker 1: do on this earth. I mean, we kind of talked
Speaker 1: about this at the beginning of the podcast. I what's
Speaker 1: what I am so passionate about is helping as many
Speaker 1: people as possible live well, live as fully as possible
Speaker 1: by getting getting the nutrients into them that are lost,
Speaker 1: these nose to tail nutrients with hard and soil, and
Speaker 1: this eating animals knows to tail, understanding that animal foods
Speaker 1: have been incorrectly vilified. In order for me to do
Speaker 1: my work in this short life as well as possible,
Speaker 1: I need to be nourished. I have to have nutrients.
Speaker 1: So in order for me to carry out the mission
Speaker 1: that I think is most important, like my responsibility is
Speaker 1: to nourish this body. And I don't drink alcohol for
Speaker 1: a lot of the same reasons. I just I want
Speaker 1: to be a healthy individual. I can do something good. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think that that's what we do, and we
Speaker 1: need to nourish ourselves to do the work that we're
Speaker 1: gonna do, and the nourishment has to come from animals.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that we should feel bad about that.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting point you bring up. And I guess
Speaker 1: I had felt that a little bit but hadn't articulated it.
Speaker 1: And we had a um the founder of a Black
Speaker 1: Rifle coffee company was on the show and it was when, um,
Speaker 1: it was early in the pandemic, and he said something
Speaker 1: interesting to me where he was talking about, um, everybody
Speaker 1: was stressed out right, like everybody's stressed out, and we're
Speaker 1: kind of like everybody's like really analyzing their obligations and
Speaker 1: and you know, you're like sort of triaging all the
Speaker 1: things in your life. Because it was a few months ago.
Speaker 1: Seems like a million years ago now, but like a
Speaker 1: few months ago, everybody was kind of like, holy shit.
Speaker 1: And he had made this point of like did he
Speaker 1: he views his obligations and these concentric circles to build
Speaker 1: out from him so and and he has this this
Speaker 1: this view of it that I thought sounded selfish, but
Speaker 1: once he explained it. It wasn't. He's, like I said,
Speaker 1: at the center of the concentric circle, wrapped around that
Speaker 1: is my family, you know. And he said, for me,
Speaker 1: wrapped around that is my company, the people that rely
Speaker 1: on this company to living. He and he went on
Speaker 1: to say that like that's where I take care. I
Speaker 1: have to take care of the center, because if I
Speaker 1: don't take care of the center r then the concentric
Speaker 1: circles out from that aren't in a position to be
Speaker 1: properly serviced. And it was like interesting to hear someone
Speaker 1: put it, because, um, the obligation you have to be
Speaker 1: like with it, to be present, to be healthy, to
Speaker 1: be like mentally clean, to not be hungover every morning. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like it's not just you like looking out for yourself.
Speaker 1: You can imagine it as a way that you're protecting
Speaker 1: those things that are wrapped around you, because there has
Speaker 1: to be that like strong core and center. If you
Speaker 1: don't protect yourself, who does that fall to? Yeah, listens
Speaker 1: and then and then exactly no one's gonna do it.
Speaker 1: And I mean, look, we've all got this life to
Speaker 1: do good work. I mean art. We're all here to
Speaker 1: do art. We're all here to make our own art,
Speaker 1: and that for me as a physician, I've realized that
Speaker 1: in order to make art, you have to be healthy.
Speaker 1: And I know you guys, we can talk about how
Speaker 1: to define healthy, but nutrition and nutritional density and nutrients,
Speaker 1: an absence of inflammation and autoimmunity that allows people to
Speaker 1: make their art. There's so much beautiful art, and whether
Speaker 1: it's painted art or singing art or this type of
Speaker 1: spoken art or writing art like this allows us to
Speaker 1: do our work. And that's what makes life meaningful. Is
Speaker 1: to create something beautiful, You've got to be healthy to
Speaker 1: do it. And that's why I want to do what
Speaker 1: I do, is to help people make more beautiful art,
Speaker 1: because God knows we need more beautiful art in this world.
Speaker 1: And that sounds who but you get it. It's exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing that we have to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 1: And for me, when I was hunting, I'll just wrap
Speaker 1: this thought up and then I'll tell you what I eat.
Speaker 1: Like I realized, Okay, this is the most nutritous food
Speaker 1: on the planet. Those those two white tail that I've
Speaker 1: eaten have been some of the most nourishing food. But
Speaker 1: I also remembered every single bite, like Okay, I took
Speaker 1: this life. This is my responsibility to do well and
Speaker 1: also to be a kind human. And so it's this
Speaker 1: amazing kind of quote sacrament. It's just remind me to
Speaker 1: be a good human. And I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the tragic things about getting your food from a grocery
Speaker 1: store all the time. And you guys probably get this.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that if more people could hunt,
Speaker 1: we would be a different society. And that's the way
Speaker 1: it used to be, you know. I mean, think about
Speaker 1: how many generations ago. It wasn't that long ago when
Speaker 1: a lot of the food we got was from hunting.
Speaker 1: And if people just look below the surface, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that would have reminded them this is I should be
Speaker 1: gracious for this. This is bounty, this is nutritious food.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna waste it. I'm gonna eat all the organs,
Speaker 1: get all my nutrition, and it's gonna nourish me to
Speaker 1: do whatever I find meaningful in this life. And that's
Speaker 1: that's my take as a doctor. So it's cool stuff.
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of value in the
Speaker 1: the mental aspect of it. I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not all chemistry, too, because when we're eating fish and
Speaker 1: game that we caught ourselves or hunted ourselves, or even
Speaker 1: eating things that we grew ourselves. I just like I
Speaker 1: become aware of it. And otherwise I wouldn't pay any
Speaker 1: attention to it. I would just be like whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be interesting to me. But also it becomes
Speaker 1: intensely interesting to me, and there's probably and I like,
Speaker 1: and I pay more attention to it and focus on
Speaker 1: it more and more concerned about the quality because it, like,
Speaker 1: it becomes a thing of spiritual mental interest to me,
Speaker 1: and it heightens it's it heightens my awareness and involvement
Speaker 1: with it, whereas otherwise it would be just like another blase,
Speaker 1: boring thing that I wasn't even considerate of, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think the humans need wild places just like
Speaker 1: they need nutrients. Every time you take a bite of
Speaker 1: food that you've grown or gathered or hunted, there's a
Speaker 1: memory of being in a wild place or being in
Speaker 1: some outdoors somehow, and that that's nourishing for us too.
Speaker 1: You think, Oh, man, I think about I think about
Speaker 1: the camping trip and the hunting trip I went on
Speaker 1: in January and Junction, Texas, where I where I got that, dear,
Speaker 1: you know, with my bow, And then I think about
Speaker 1: the one in Flagstaff, Arizona a few years ago where
Speaker 1: I got my bow, and I know exactly where it happened,
Speaker 1: and I know that space, and in order to get
Speaker 1: those animals with a bow, I had to know that
Speaker 1: space well. I had to become part of that space,
Speaker 1: and I had to think where am I in relation
Speaker 1: to these animals? How do I smell? What time of
Speaker 1: day is it? And so you get this wilderness experience,
Speaker 1: and that's also valuable for humans. The whole thing kind
Speaker 1: of wraps into each other and gives you this such
Speaker 1: a powerful experience that I think for me has always
Speaker 1: spoken to the ethical consideration, like, yes, we don't want
Speaker 1: anything to suffer, and this is such a rich experience,
Speaker 1: and I would suggest an indispensable, invaluable part of being
Speaker 1: a human to be interacting with the animals that way,
Speaker 1: in a respectful way. You really become part of the
Speaker 1: whole community, don't you. You do You're part of an ecosystem,
Speaker 1: you know, you become part of an outdoor ecosystem and
Speaker 1: outdoor community. And I think that, I mean, going to
Speaker 1: grocery stores is kind of tragic. We all have to
Speaker 1: do it today, But how cool would it be to
Speaker 1: get back into that more? And that's what you guys do,
Speaker 1: and that's why it's so cool, And I want to
Speaker 1: get back to doing more of that. And I think
Speaker 1: that it starts with nutrition and then you start getting
Speaker 1: back into those wild places. And I'm hoping to get
Speaker 1: to a point in my life real soon where I
Speaker 1: can do a lot more that now. In the book
Speaker 1: and the Carnivore Code, I outline five tiers of a
Speaker 1: carnivore diet. And before I started this, I'll just tell
Speaker 1: people who are listening my intention in talking about carnivore
Speaker 1: diets and animal foods is not to convince everybody in
Speaker 1: the world to stop eating plants. It's really to construct
Speaker 1: a diet hierarchy in terms of nutritional value and um
Speaker 1: like the way that these foods make us who we
Speaker 1: are or allow us to become as optimal as we
Speaker 1: can be as humans from like a medical, biochemical, nutritional perspective.
Speaker 1: And so my my thesis with a carnivore diet or
Speaker 1: an animal based diet which a little is a little
Speaker 1: more of an inclusive idea, is that kind of like
Speaker 1: we've been talking about animal foods eaten nose to tail,
Speaker 1: organs and meat have been at the center of our
Speaker 1: ancestors existence forever since we were hominids, and that they
Speaker 1: are the most valuable foods on the planet. And yet again,
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, they've been vilified for the last
Speaker 1: seventy years. They should not be vilified. So I think
Speaker 1: that the first step to doing our art to being
Speaker 1: as optimal as possible is remembering that animal foods eating
Speaker 1: nose to tail are the most nutritionally dense and valuable
Speaker 1: foods on the planet. Like I said earlier, they have
Speaker 1: nutrients that are not found anywhere else that are very
Speaker 1: difficult to get. Their magical foods quote unquote, they're just
Speaker 1: the most nutritional foods in the planet. These are the
Speaker 1: most important food strusted to get. We should not believe
Speaker 1: that they are harmful for us. And then beyond that,
Speaker 1: in the book, I've created a broad strokes perspective on
Speaker 1: what I believe are more and less toxic plants. So
Speaker 1: I don't want people to think that they can't eat
Speaker 1: any plants, or they shouldn't eat any plants. Some people
Speaker 1: do really well with no plants in their diet. I
Speaker 1: haven't eaten significant amounts of plant foods and over two years,
Speaker 1: and I feel pretty darn good. And I'm not combusting
Speaker 1: with oxidative stress or you know, backed up into ridiculous
Speaker 1: amounts of constipation. I poop every day. Guys, I know
Speaker 1: you're all wondering about this with no fiber in my diet. Actually,
Speaker 1: that's good to hear. So I you know, there's this
Speaker 1: there's this spectrum of plant toxicity, which plants are more
Speaker 1: and less toxic. And if people want to include plants
Speaker 1: in their diet, which are the least toxic parts of
Speaker 1: plants and the least toxic plants, Yeah, you better explain
Speaker 1: plant toxicity. Yeah, I mean it's the thing that plants.
Speaker 1: I mean, as much as you can say a plant
Speaker 1: intentionally does something, it's like a part of a plant strategy.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely a part of a plant strategy. And
Speaker 1: it's it makes sense evolution narily. When you go hunting animals,
Speaker 1: they're gonna run away from you. They're pretty crafty. They
Speaker 1: can bite you or kick you, or go are you,
Speaker 1: or they can just run away. They're flying away, or
Speaker 1: they're fast, or they're crafty. They they fear better than
Speaker 1: us or smell better than us. But plants are rooted
Speaker 1: in the ground. This is not surprising to anyone. But
Speaker 1: there's been a coevolution between animals and plants for over
Speaker 1: four and fifty million years, and animals and plants have
Speaker 1: been in this kind of ongoing warfare, this chemical warfare.
Speaker 1: Plants have had to evolve defense chemicals to meter how
Speaker 1: much they get consumed by herbivorous animals or omnivorous animals,
Speaker 1: or there would be no such thing as ecosystems. If
Speaker 1: every tree was just made of chocolate or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: delicacy a bear or you know, any animal wants to
Speaker 1: go eat, there would be no plants left on the
Speaker 1: planet because animals would eat the plants, they would reproduce more,
Speaker 1: and there would just be more and more animals and
Speaker 1: less and less plants. So there is this delicate balance,
Speaker 1: and that delicate balance is really it's it's just it's coordinated,
Speaker 1: it's orchestrated by these plants chemicals, and we're familiar with
Speaker 1: some of these. A lot of us know about some
Speaker 1: plants that are toxic around you know, around Christmas. If
Speaker 1: you have a point set in your house, you're like,
Speaker 1: don't let the kids go by the point set. You
Speaker 1: guys know the point set of plants. Oh they're super toxic.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the super top knew that and forgot toxic.
Speaker 1: If you think if a kid eats a point set, yeah,
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they can get really, really sick. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of other plants like that. And we were
Speaker 1: familiar with gluten and lectins messes up a lot of
Speaker 1: people's guts. I mean, there's a lot of plants out
Speaker 1: there that are just totally freaking toxic. There are people
Speaker 1: that have died for eating too much surrell and soral,
Speaker 1: you know, and um, it's that's because of the amount
Speaker 1: of oxalates in there. So that's a whole another thing
Speaker 1: we can go down a rabbit hole with. But there
Speaker 1: are a lot of plant toxins out there. And the
Speaker 1: ideas that the roots, the stems, the leaves, and the
Speaker 1: seeds of plants are plants kind of just saying hey,
Speaker 1: I'm here and you're there. I'm good, don't mess with me.
Speaker 1: I won't mess with you. Let's just try and be friends.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put some toxins in these foods, these parts
Speaker 1: of my plant and issuade you from over consuming them.
Speaker 1: And if you eat a lot of them, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna feel very good, or you might even die. I
Speaker 1: might make this fruit every once in a while, and
Speaker 1: that's gonna be less toxic because I kind of want
Speaker 1: you to eat that and then poop out my seeds
Speaker 1: somewhere else where. It has this fertile pile of manure
Speaker 1: for me to grow. But there's a clear communication here.
Speaker 1: And so if you look at plants, the seeds of plants,
Speaker 1: which essentially are seeds, nuts, grains, and legumes, so beans
Speaker 1: are all seeds, they're all plant babies. That are all
Speaker 1: plant reproductive efforts to reproduce, to put their generation forward,
Speaker 1: to put the next generation of DNA beyond them. And
Speaker 1: these are some of the most highly defended parts of plants.
Speaker 1: And this won't really be totally foreign to anyone who's
Speaker 1: heard of things like gluten intolerance or Celiac disease. Well,
Speaker 1: wheat is a grain and it has a lot of lectins.
Speaker 1: Gluten is one lectins are these one type of plant
Speaker 1: defense chemical compound. But if that is other lectins like
Speaker 1: wheat or magluten in, a lot of things in wheat
Speaker 1: are not good for humans. It's a plant seed, it's
Speaker 1: a grain. A lot of other grains are not so
Speaker 1: good for us, like beans. Beans are excuse me, a
Speaker 1: lot of other seeds are not so good for us,
Speaker 1: like beans. And if you eat you ever trying to
Speaker 1: eat a raw bean, like off the plant. They're trying
Speaker 1: to be like a kidney bean. You ever seen kidney
Speaker 1: bean or a lion? They're superbeans. Really, how do you feel?
Speaker 1: I didn't need enough. I knew that they will mess
Speaker 1: you up, so I never ate enough to mess super
Speaker 1: mess you up. So but I read about a kid,
Speaker 1: a three year old kid who got lost in a
Speaker 1: soybean field one time, and he'd eat a bunch of
Speaker 1: soybeans and got sick. And I just ate one to
Speaker 1: see what it was like. Yeah, so if you eat
Speaker 1: raw beans, they will they will make you violently ill.
Speaker 1: And there are hundreds of recorded episodes now of people
Speaker 1: getting food poisoning from undercook kidney beans. So a lot
Speaker 1: of the seeds out there are frankly toxic to humans.
Speaker 1: You know, apple seeds have toxic things in them like
Speaker 1: arsenic or cyanide, and I should stop eating those. My
Speaker 1: dad was always like eat the seeds in the core
Speaker 1: and the apple. Ye, I mean you could eat them,
Speaker 1: just don't don't shoot them. Don't. I guess I've ever
Speaker 1: been poisoned. Let me hit you one of that. I
Speaker 1: think you'll think it is, then you'll appreciate this one.
Speaker 1: So you're from us with snowshoe hairs, they're they're famously cyclical,
Speaker 1: and they on these like you know, seven year eight
Speaker 1: year cycles where their populations explode and in a collapse
Speaker 1: and exploding collapse, and people used to try to correlate
Speaker 1: it to all kinds of things, um, sun spots wherever
Speaker 1: that no one could ever find an explanation. Lead theory
Speaker 1: on why snowshoe hairs have a cyclical spike is they
Speaker 1: predominantly will feed on willow um as the willows are
Speaker 1: getting overgrazed, they'll start putting a ton of energy into toxins,
Speaker 1: and then the primary food source of the animal actually
Speaker 1: starts to not be nourishing and kills it. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you trim off this whole population of rabbits.
Speaker 1: The plants aren't getting grays anymore, they don't put energy
Speaker 1: into plant toxicity, and eventually this very small amount of
Speaker 1: rem that rabbits are left are back to eating a
Speaker 1: healthy food source. And this cycle seems to run in
Speaker 1: about a seven year cycle. And that's this is after
Speaker 1: many people postulated many things, but to lead theory on
Speaker 1: what drives that is there that plant's response to getting
Speaker 1: eaten by it. And if you look at grazing animals,
Speaker 1: there are many historical examples of large herds of grazing
Speaker 1: animals dying and mass when they're cordoned off by fences
Speaker 1: are made to graze on a small amount of area.
Speaker 1: If you look at ruminants or grazing animals, they don't
Speaker 1: eat just one plant. I mean this, this example of
Speaker 1: the hairs is interesting, but a lot of them will
Speaker 1: pick a little bit of this one, little bit of
Speaker 1: that one, a little bit of that one, because they
Speaker 1: realize every plant has a toxin in it and if
Speaker 1: they get too much of this toxin, they're gonna get sick.
Speaker 1: But they can get a little bit of this tox
Speaker 1: and a little bit of that tox, and a little
Speaker 1: bit of that tox and a little bit of that toxin. Right,
Speaker 1: So this is these are herbivorous animals. But the thesis
Speaker 1: that I example advanced or you know, the kind of
Speaker 1: the hypothesis. What I'm saying in the carnivore code with
Speaker 1: this idea is, look, eating animal foods made us human.
Speaker 1: And we can talk about why I think that way.
Speaker 1: If you look at the evolution of the human brain,
Speaker 1: it exploded in size, not literally but figure early in
Speaker 1: the last two million years, and that correlates very strongly
Speaker 1: with the advent of hunting. There were these auschuli and
Speaker 1: these bifacial tools cut marks on bones, mass graves, and
Speaker 1: you can date, you know how old these bones and
Speaker 1: these animals are that have cut marks and stuff. It
Speaker 1: looks like humans started hunting about two million years ago.
Speaker 1: Our brain was about five hundred ccs and it had
Speaker 1: been about five ccs for the previous ninety million years.
Speaker 1: And you know, you go up and in the last
Speaker 1: and the next two million years, it grows from five
Speaker 1: hundred ccs TOCs it triples in size, which is a
Speaker 1: massive energetic input for humans. We had to change all
Speaker 1: sorts of things in our gut, and that was probably
Speaker 1: because there were more calories and there were these unique
Speaker 1: nutrients and animal foods nias and riba flavor, coline, carnatine
Speaker 1: creatine that our brains needed to grow and something. When
Speaker 1: we had those boom. We can grow a bigger brain,
Speaker 1: and that gives us more survival advantage. We get a
Speaker 1: near cortex, We can plan hunting with our with our tribe,
Speaker 1: we can evade predators better. We don't have claws and
Speaker 1: towns anymore, but we can fashion spears and nest. The
Speaker 1: human race goes on, and so a food that lies
Speaker 1: at the center of our evolution is what we need
Speaker 1: to grow and that really made us who we are.
Speaker 1: That's a statement I make in the book that eating
Speaker 1: animals nos the tail made us human. It made us human,
Speaker 1: and I think that because of that, and there's good
Speaker 1: evidence for this, looking at stable isotopes of you know,
Speaker 1: fossilized remains of teeth that are I think at least
Speaker 1: a million years old, which is crazy to think about that,
Speaker 1: and even more recent hunter gatherers um from fifty thousand
Speaker 1: years ago. You can look at uh stabilized stope analysis
Speaker 1: of co living Neanderthal and Homo sapiens in northern Europe
Speaker 1: and see the majority of their protein was coming from animals.
Speaker 1: And you can look at this these barrium and caesium
Speaker 1: and nitrogen and carbon and sulfur isotopes, and say, man,
Speaker 1: they were eating a lot of animals. It looks like
Speaker 1: they were eating like more animals than known carnivores like hyenas.
Speaker 1: So the thesis in a lot of anthropology circles is, hey,
Speaker 1: we were essentially high level quote carnivores. We weren't eating
Speaker 1: all animals, but we were eating the majority of our
Speaker 1: diet as animals when we could get them. So I'm
Speaker 1: they think that our blueprint is humans is in stark
Speaker 1: contrast what we've been told today. It's not kale that's
Speaker 1: the superfood. It's the animal foods that are the superfoods.
Speaker 1: And that you see this indigenous cultures too. They seek
Speaker 1: out animals preferentially, and they'll eat plants as fallback food,
Speaker 1: as survival food, but they don't really if they've got
Speaker 1: a big kill, they're not gonna be like, hey, we
Speaker 1: got a whole whole elephants or a whole water buffalo. Well,
Speaker 1: let's just put that aside. I'm gonna go I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go gather some tubers, you know, I'm gonna go gather
Speaker 1: some There's some good, some good acorns over here. They're like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna eat this freaking buffalo. Man. But we're we're
Speaker 1: adaptable as humans, and we do have the ability to
Speaker 1: be omnivorous, and I think that we've used that throughout
Speaker 1: our evolution to during times of scarcity, use plant foods
Speaker 1: as fallback foods, as survival foods. And this is because
Speaker 1: plants have toxins. So what have we done. We've learned
Speaker 1: how to ferment them. And you see this over and
Speaker 1: over a lot of times when indigenous cultures eat plant foods,
Speaker 1: they're fermented things like sauer Kraud. This comes from fermented cabbage.
Speaker 1: A lot of the toxins that are in cabbage, which
Speaker 1: a lot of the same toxins and kale are degraded
Speaker 1: when you ferment the cabbage. A lot of beans are
Speaker 1: fermented in sort of South American cultures. So we've figured
Speaker 1: out ways. But if you look at the number of ways,
Speaker 1: the sheer volume of ways that humans have figured out
Speaker 1: to make plants more edible, it's clearly indicating they are
Speaker 1: full of toxins. Whether it's cooking or dhauling or it's
Speaker 1: an interesting point, man, Like the amotta plants we eat
Speaker 1: you know, the grains and stuff we you don't eat,
Speaker 1: like you can't eat raw raw. You gotta do to
Speaker 1: make them medable. You gotta do a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: You gotta pressure cook the heck out of the mean.
Speaker 1: Look at white rice, you know, in Asian cultures, it's
Speaker 1: a staple, and they figured out, oh, if you take
Speaker 1: the hull off the rice, it's way less toxic for humans,
Speaker 1: and we've been told the reverse. So brown rice is
Speaker 1: more healthy. But brown rice has a lot of arsenic
Speaker 1: in it, because arsenic is concentrated in the hull of
Speaker 1: the rice, and a lot of the things that prevent
Speaker 1: us from absorbing minerals are in the hull of the rice,
Speaker 1: like phightic acid, things like that. So humans realize, hey,
Speaker 1: if we take the hull off the rice, we can
Speaker 1: get the grain out of the middle, and there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of nutrients in there, but as at least
Speaker 1: calories to keep me going until tomorrow. But where do
Speaker 1: we then get our massive micro nutrient doses. We get
Speaker 1: them from animal foods every day. Okay, this is my
Speaker 1: long way to answer for what I eat every day
Speaker 1: and the reason I had that whole sort of explanation was.
Speaker 1: I wanted people to understand that this is my perspective
Speaker 1: on it, because when I say this, people are just
Speaker 1: gonna be like, click off goes the podcast. This guy's
Speaker 1: a looney been m because you're doing you're doing an
Speaker 1: extreme version. We should have started with that. Yeah, I mean, so,
Speaker 1: so I don't need plants, all right, I don't need
Speaker 1: any plants. I have any any plants in over two years.
Speaker 1: I did a short experiment for a couple of days
Speaker 1: where I was wearing a continuous glucost monitor where I
Speaker 1: included some berries and some squash in my diet just
Speaker 1: to see what would happen to my glucost. But I've
Speaker 1: found that I feel better without plants. And the reason
Speaker 1: I don't need need plants is because I don't. There
Speaker 1: are no nutrients and plants that I can't get from
Speaker 1: eating animal. No, the tail and I take when you
Speaker 1: can play. When you say plants, you're talking like flower,
Speaker 1: like wheat, No, like like any plants that I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean you're including that. Oh yeah, I'm including like
Speaker 1: grains and flour and wheat like I don't know to
Speaker 1: talk about skipping green vegetables. No, all of this every
Speaker 1: once in a while, I'm on a date with a
Speaker 1: girl and I don't need plants, and she goes, well,
Speaker 1: do you eat bread? No, I don't need bread. I
Speaker 1: don't even plants. Well do you know no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Just I don't think people understand, like I don't need
Speaker 1: plant products, like all I eat all I eat his
Speaker 1: animals and you know I people say, well, then you
Speaker 1: just eat meat, and how that go over on the date? There?
Speaker 1: They usually that's usually that of the day or they're
Speaker 1: like they kind of roll their eyes and they're just
Speaker 1: not sure what to think. I think they're in shell
Speaker 1: shock after that. I'm not sure. Yeah, I try to
Speaker 1: get that to like the second or third date. I don't.
Speaker 1: I try not to let that. Don't do dinner dates.
Speaker 1: They're like, you want to go to restaurant. I'm like
Speaker 1: about that, Let's just go for a walk. Uh, let's
Speaker 1: just go hiking or something. Um still doesn't go over
Speaker 1: so good. People think it's a little strange. But I
Speaker 1: don't eat I don't need plants. I eat only meat.
Speaker 1: But by meat, I don't just eat meat, right, I
Speaker 1: eat meat and liver and organs. So I eat two
Speaker 1: meals a day. I'm interested in time restricted feeding, which
Speaker 1: is eating. I eat breakfast, and I eat lunch late lunch,
Speaker 1: and then I don't eat dinner because I want to
Speaker 1: have some period in the day where I'm not eating,
Speaker 1: kind of like this intermittent fasting type of idea. And
Speaker 1: if you look at this, you know, I take my
Speaker 1: key tones in the morning and I actually have keytnes
Speaker 1: in my blood every morning, so I'll get into keytosis. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think is a good thing for humans to
Speaker 1: kind of cycle in and out of keytosis, but not
Speaker 1: be in it all the time. I think, when you're
Speaker 1: done telling us about what you eat and then we
Speaker 1: should talk a little bit about keto keytosis, well yeah,
Speaker 1: do that, but but finish this because but I want
Speaker 1: to I gotta have you in the morning. So I
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning. So this morning, I eat
Speaker 1: the same thing pretty much every day. I I've got
Speaker 1: it works for me, and I mean I'm easy. Um.
Speaker 1: But again that it's not to say that you have
Speaker 1: to eat this way. There's a lot of variety. We're
Speaker 1: building a cookbook around this too. Um. So I eat
Speaker 1: a lot of so I eat grass fed grass finish
Speaker 1: meat from our generative farms, a lot of good farms.
Speaker 1: I want to support that type of agriculture. If I
Speaker 1: can't eat an animal that I've hunted, i'll eat meat
Speaker 1: from those farms. And so i'll eat about a pound
Speaker 1: of meat twice a day, eat a little less than
Speaker 1: two pounds of meat a day. And it's right now,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of stew meat. And I make bone broth,
Speaker 1: so I'll make my own bone broth with knucklebones. It
Speaker 1: has all the tendons on there. And what I'll do
Speaker 1: is I'll blanch the meat in bone broth and then
Speaker 1: add salt to it, and then I'll eat the bone
Speaker 1: broth and tendons, and i'll get my glycine, the connective tissue,
Speaker 1: and I'll eat the meat. And then I also eat
Speaker 1: some organs, and so as many of the fresh organs
Speaker 1: as I have, i'll eat those. So most days i'll
Speaker 1: eat liver, heart spleen, pancreas. If i've got thimus, i'll
Speaker 1: eat it. If I can get testco, i'll eat it.
Speaker 1: And your butcher's gotta love you, man, because you're buying
Speaker 1: the stuff they have. No, it's not even at the butcher.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get I gotta talk to my phone.
Speaker 1: You're buying all the stuff that winds up in a
Speaker 1: rendering play. Yeah, yeah, and that's that's important, you know.
Speaker 1: So I get all the organs I can in a day,
Speaker 1: a few ounces, and then I'll eat some suet because
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in this kidney fat um. It's high
Speaker 1: in a compound called ste i. I just I chew
Speaker 1: it and I have like a swig of bone broth
Speaker 1: with it, kind of warm because it sue it's really waxy.
Speaker 1: It's all either like straight as straight ass. You don't
Speaker 1: you don't you don't you don't like rendered out in
Speaker 1: the pan, or like you make a crackling Nope, I
Speaker 1: just eat it. I just take the suit raw and
Speaker 1: I eat it with bone broth, and then I'll add
Speaker 1: some Redman real salt. And then so for the first
Speaker 1: year and a half, you're okay with salt. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: totally okay with salt. Before you get to how it
Speaker 1: felt to tell me about just blanching stew meat, because
Speaker 1: that to me sounds real tough. It's actually not bad
Speaker 1: at all, because I don't over blanch it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just doing that because I find stew meat to
Speaker 1: be affordable. People will sometimes criticize my diet and say,
Speaker 1: I can't eat two ReBs a day. That's fifty bucks
Speaker 1: in me. And I go, well, I eat eight dollars
Speaker 1: a pound grass fed, grass finished stew meat, and I
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's great. So you take the bone, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. Yet had a good question. You take you
Speaker 1: make bone broth, which I get and then imagined you
Speaker 1: probably pick all this stuff off the bone, eat all
Speaker 1: of it. And I actually will chew on the bones too.
Speaker 1: And then and then you'll take stew meat, slice it,
Speaker 1: just slice it thin or cut it however, and you'll
Speaker 1: heat up bone broth to cook the stew meat. And
Speaker 1: this is how I'm doing it. Now do you ever?
Speaker 1: Do you ever? Uh? Did you just take animal fat
Speaker 1: and fry? I don't. Why not? I have in the past,
Speaker 1: But because I'm a scientist, because I'm a doctor, and
Speaker 1: I think about lipid peroxides and all this other so
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, keep talking about your food.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna add in my notes lipid peroxide, lipid peroxides,
Speaker 1: white frying is bad. All right. Now, I'm disappointed. I've
Speaker 1: done a lot of that. Okay, I think that's probably
Speaker 1: if you're fine an animal fat, I think you're probably
Speaker 1: find there's a lot of cultures to do it. But
Speaker 1: I do experiments myself all the time. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: optimize because I realized that. I'm like, so you're like
Speaker 1: against frying stuff an animal fat. I'm not against it.
Speaker 1: I just like doing the experiments and myself to see
Speaker 1: because I'm like the pirate man, I'm like the astronaut
Speaker 1: on the way to the moon. Nobody's ever done this before,
Speaker 1: and I just want to be like, is this better
Speaker 1: as it worse. I want to be the person that
Speaker 1: kind of helps people understand, like this is the ideal,
Speaker 1: but you can do it this way too. I'm not
Speaker 1: completely against frying things in animal fat um. I used
Speaker 1: to do that a lot. I just do a lot
Speaker 1: of the blanching now, and so I'll put it in
Speaker 1: the in the bone broth for maybe less than a minute.
Speaker 1: So I like my meat really raw, and so if
Speaker 1: you just cook the outs side and then you know
Speaker 1: the inside is pretty much like blue rare. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not over cooking it. And the meat I get
Speaker 1: from these regenerative farms is pretty darn tender, and I
Speaker 1: love it. Not into fish. We can talk about fish.
Speaker 1: We can talk about fish. So I love fish. I
Speaker 1: just feel like a lot of fish is from sources
Speaker 1: that are polluted. If I could eat fish from clean
Speaker 1: rivers and lakes or oceans, I'll do it. So you
Speaker 1: don't like the heavy metals, I don't like the heavy metals.
Speaker 1: Get worried about this then microplastics. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think about this because I I test my heavy metals
Speaker 1: all the time, and I test the metals in my clients.
Speaker 1: And if I have had clients who eat opo, I
Speaker 1: go to the story they get opos wild or they
Speaker 1: get you know, it's just like I think I'm one
Speaker 1: of these bigger deep sea fishes. Oh I'm a minute, okay, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: halb don't eat with fish, yeah, halib it, sword fish,
Speaker 1: those kind of things. A lot of metals, and you'll
Speaker 1: see this down. We should have started with this if
Speaker 1: you're if you're guinea pigging yourself like all. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's awesome. I think we should have just
Speaker 1: started with this intro to to like set the record straight.
Speaker 1: He's you know, I think it's great, but there's no
Speaker 1: reason to apologize. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: you feel a little bit of burden. Right. If I'm
Speaker 1: going to write a book as a physician, I'm going
Speaker 1: to test all my labs. I've probably done over a
Speaker 1: thousand blood work test at this point, and I talked
Speaker 1: about Yeah, I test my labs all the time. I
Speaker 1: had a couple of blood tests like last week. I've
Speaker 1: done it all my podcast multiple times. I love doing
Speaker 1: blood work and looking at things and looking at my
Speaker 1: inflammatory markers and my heavy metals, and I want to
Speaker 1: know these things because I'm writing a book and I
Speaker 1: have to be able to tell people this is what
Speaker 1: I think works, this is what I believe works. And
Speaker 1: I work with clients doing this too, So I see
Speaker 1: it all the time. And what I'm saying about the
Speaker 1: OPA or the uh, the I had so many a
Speaker 1: lot of tuna, and then you see the mercury and
Speaker 1: the blood rise immediately even three week, three times a week,
Speaker 1: wild Sam, and I'll see the mercury bump a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, that's an ideal. Have we just
Speaker 1: over polluted all the oceans at this point? And I think, well,
Speaker 1: I like fish and I love fishing, and I love
Speaker 1: I've only fly fished a couple of times, but I
Speaker 1: freaking love being on rivers. I love being in those places.
Speaker 1: But I ask myself, is it the best food in
Speaker 1: was it? Was it fantastic food years ago? Absolutely? But
Speaker 1: the thing I worry about is that is fishing. I'm
Speaker 1: not telling people I can't fish. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: offer tools that might be helpful for human health. But
Speaker 1: is fishing now like eating beef grown in downtown Tokyo.
Speaker 1: You know, if if you eat beef that's inhaling lots
Speaker 1: of polluted air all the time, is that the best
Speaker 1: kind of beef you want to eat? Like I want
Speaker 1: to eat beef that's grown on the Idyllic farm in
Speaker 1: northern California. Well, yeah, but they just eat short lived,
Speaker 1: non pasciferous fish. That's probably the way to do it.
Speaker 1: That's the way to Yeah, eat small fish that don't
Speaker 1: accumulate metals, avoid big old fish, to eat lots of
Speaker 1: big old fish. There you go, That probably the way
Speaker 1: to do it. So if I did more of that,
Speaker 1: maybe I do that, But I mean one could do that.
Speaker 1: You could do that. You could do that. And also
Speaker 1: if you were eating fish, you could eat the fish
Speaker 1: nose to tail too. You know. The the fish row
Speaker 1: is very beneficial and has been treasured by cultures for
Speaker 1: many generations as well. And the organs brain. Yeah, those
Speaker 1: kind of things are valuable. Fish eyes, fish head, soup.
Speaker 1: This is what we're talking about. Nose to tail. Let's
Speaker 1: get back to your daily diet. Okay, my daily diet.
Speaker 1: You started out. You got your bone broth. My bone broth.
Speaker 1: I blanched some some some some steaming in it. How
Speaker 1: much bone broth you drink? Uh? So I make a
Speaker 1: big pot for and it last me three to four days.
Speaker 1: I drink probably sixteen ounces a day of bone broth.
Speaker 1: No coffee, I don't do coffee. That's a plant. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you got any kind of coffee type thing you
Speaker 1: make just to get that sensation of drinking coffee? I
Speaker 1: do deep breaths, I'll just go, you know, or just
Speaker 1: the organs. You have to quit drinking coffee at some
Speaker 1: point in time. Was it hard? It was hard. I
Speaker 1: used to be a bike racer, so I used to
Speaker 1: race road bikes, and there's a big culture and road
Speaker 1: bike in around. Sipping your cappuccino with your finger out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then like coffee and road bike in and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of brings a bell. I've seen that,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of old dudes on bikes, the little
Speaker 1: clickie shoes going in and get going in to get coffee,
Speaker 1: and there's a there's yeah, you wear spandex, you drink
Speaker 1: coffee a lot of the time. Like, yeah, they're super excited.
Speaker 1: Maybe they shouldn't be wearing spandex. But that's a whole different,
Speaker 1: whole different stories. So and yeah, when I had to
Speaker 1: stop drinking coffee, got a wake at headache for a week,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, but it was giving me
Speaker 1: a drinking and give you a headache. I do, but
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like I don't want to drink it for
Speaker 1: a week, and I don't drink camel tea in the morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's very on your very you're the exception. I wind
Speaker 1: up where I can't get any coffee. I take a
Speaker 1: aspirin or Bobby profen. Proact what's the word I'm looking for. Proactively. Really,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, well, if I can't get a coffee,
Speaker 1: I'll get a headache. So I just treat. I just
Speaker 1: treat the headache. And I used to take Excedrin. I
Speaker 1: used to carry around exceed because he's got caffeine in it.
Speaker 1: Just I don't know, stick your head, and I used
Speaker 1: to water and do like twenty five push ups. You're golden.
Speaker 1: It's pain. That's not what he's trying to It's not
Speaker 1: the fact that he's not waking up. It's the fact
Speaker 1: that he's You're gonna get the caffeine addiction. So excedrin
Speaker 1: has a little bit of caffeine in it. I iced
Speaker 1: to bring it camping, and if we were doing a
Speaker 1: thing where there wasn't gonna be coffee in the morning,
Speaker 1: I would bring it and just take it instead of
Speaker 1: coffee so that I wouldn't get the coffee headache. But hey,
Speaker 1: what don't you talk about coffee? All right? So there
Speaker 1: you are. You have to drinking all this bone broth.
Speaker 1: Drinking bone broth eating tendons blanched me. And then I'll
Speaker 1: eat the organs, and I eat the organs raw. So
Speaker 1: I love to eat the organs ship. I'll do shooters.
Speaker 1: And I was talking to Korean about this before. I
Speaker 1: think a good way to eat liver is to do
Speaker 1: a shooter. But I realized a lot of people won't
Speaker 1: do this, which is why we made the descated organ
Speaker 1: supplements as well. So I'll do the organs and then
Speaker 1: So for the first I was just saying this. For
Speaker 1: the first year and a half I did this, I
Speaker 1: had no carbs in my diet. It was zero carb
Speaker 1: um but a lot of protein balm. Let me ask you, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll come back to that. No, No, just a quick digression.
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Do you ever find yourself? Do you're
Speaker 1: sneak a donut? I think that, I'm I think that.
Speaker 1: Are you ever like my god? Do I want to donut?
Speaker 1: You know what? I will never eat another cookie as
Speaker 1: long as I live. I just don't crave them. See
Speaker 1: that's like, Yeahni, he's all anti sugar. Well, I just don't.
Speaker 1: You may not like the next thing I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: but I don't. Um, I don't. I just don't crave
Speaker 1: those foods. I think in my mind, I've been able. No.
Speaker 1: I never did, not, even like a little kid. I mean, sure,
Speaker 1: as a little kid I did. But at some point
Speaker 1: there was a shift in my mind and psychologically I
Speaker 1: just connected the way I felt afterwards, and I was
Speaker 1: like it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Nothing
Speaker 1: takes as good as healthy feels. Tony Robbins said, that
Speaker 1: is I love it, you know, like I just prioritize it.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, in medical school, I
Speaker 1: was doing jiu jitsu. Man, I'm getting choked and ship.
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel bad the next day, Like
Speaker 1: I can't even a donut or drink alcohol, and you know,
Speaker 1: I just running and being in the woods. There's so
Speaker 1: many cool things I want to do in my life.
Speaker 1: I don't want it. It's not worth it to me
Speaker 1: to eat bad food. That's why I quit drinking so
Speaker 1: much alcohol. I love drinking alcohol, just like being hungover.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're more connected to how your
Speaker 1: body feels? And maybe the average person who if you ask,
Speaker 1: how do you feel after drinking five bottles of beer?
Speaker 1: How do you feel after eating half of a pound cake?
Speaker 1: That that you're yeah, or that you're actually tuned into
Speaker 1: a certain visceral feeling and experience of yourself, like moment
Speaker 1: by moment that you just there. You don't crave it
Speaker 1: because it feels like pain. Absolutely, And I think this
Speaker 1: is one of the key points is that when you
Speaker 1: simplify your diet enough. When you get clean enough quote unquote,
Speaker 1: you get you get a good baseline. A lot of
Speaker 1: people can't separate signal from noise, so they always feel shitty,
Speaker 1: or they always feel a little bit hungover, They always
Speaker 1: feel a little bit brain fog. Are they always a
Speaker 1: little depressed? Yeah, what you're saying, once you get clean
Speaker 1: quote unquote, you know once you and a lot of
Speaker 1: people experience that for the first time when they fast,
Speaker 1: because it's it's really tricky for people to understand what
Speaker 1: good food is. But if you if you really don't
Speaker 1: know what to eat, just fast for a few days,
Speaker 1: which is not easy, but fast for three days and
Speaker 1: you will feel the best you've ever felt in your
Speaker 1: life because you have no negative inputs. Now, the trick
Speaker 1: is being able to do that long term, because you
Speaker 1: can't fast forever you will die. But if you can
Speaker 1: feel as good as you feel when you are fasting,
Speaker 1: when you're eating food, then you found food that really
Speaker 1: worked with your body. And that's the way that I
Speaker 1: and now thousands of people feel when they're doing an
Speaker 1: animal based diet or mostly animal foods, eating nose to
Speaker 1: tail and so yes, I think that I've gotten so
Speaker 1: refined in the laboratory of this corporeum my body that
Speaker 1: I know when I eat something bad, I'm just like, man,
Speaker 1: I ate something, I'm off either my stomach feels off
Speaker 1: or I get brain fog. And I've heard it from
Speaker 1: my friends too. I mean, you know, I'm traveling with
Speaker 1: a couple of couple of my friends from Hard and
Speaker 1: Soil here, and you know, one of the guys had
Speaker 1: to eat a sandwich in the airport and he did
Speaker 1: it kind of cheapestly. I was like, Doug, where'd you go.
Speaker 1: He's like, I had a sandwich. I was like, why,
Speaker 1: why did you do that? You didn't want to eat
Speaker 1: it in front of me, did you? And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sandwich shaming. Yeah. And then he was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't feel good and he was farting all last
Speaker 1: night and stuff, and so you know, it's you can tell.
Speaker 1: But once you get your body kind of refined, that
Speaker 1: makes it so much easier to make behavioral change, because
Speaker 1: you know, like I actually saw what it felt like
Speaker 1: to feel really good, to sleep well, to wake up
Speaker 1: clear headed, to have energy, to like do one workout
Speaker 1: and then be like, you know, I could go work
Speaker 1: out again, or like do a workout and then play
Speaker 1: with your kids, or like proper human libido, or not
Speaker 1: being depressed or anxious or you know all those things.
Speaker 1: That's what makes life. We're living like training, right. It's
Speaker 1: like if you keep sticking your hand inside it, I
Speaker 1: don't know, a raccoon cage or something, and it bites
Speaker 1: your hand, you're gonna speaking up. He purnt up at
Speaker 1: raccoon cage. But I mean, I think you guys get
Speaker 1: it with drink, and a lot of people would drink
Speaker 1: all the time, don't even understand how good you could
Speaker 1: be when you don't drink. And I hear these people
Speaker 1: all the time when they cut things out of their diet.
Speaker 1: I never knew I could feel this good. I never
Speaker 1: knew I could feel as good as I felt when
Speaker 1: I cut bread out of my diet. I never knew
Speaker 1: how good I was gonna feel when I cut all
Speaker 1: these plants out of my diet, when I cut kill
Speaker 1: out of my diet. Had somebody email me that the
Speaker 1: other day. I never knew how good my gut, you know,
Speaker 1: my stomach could feel until I cut kill out of
Speaker 1: my diet. Mysteriously blow seriously, you know, I was trying
Speaker 1: to having Like I mean, I'll tell you, one of
Speaker 1: the best things about being eating a carnivore diet is
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about farting, because that's really
Speaker 1: socially awkward and uncomfortable, you know, Like I mean. If
Speaker 1: you think a carnivore diet is hard on dating, try
Speaker 1: being a vegan because I was that too. I was
Speaker 1: a raw vegan for seven months. About you did that.
Speaker 1: I was a rab vegan for seven months. I was lost.
Speaker 1: I lost twenty five pounds of muscle mass, and all
Speaker 1: the people hang out with it were just like, man,
Speaker 1: you have the worst part. Now, what were you doing that?
Speaker 1: Why was I doing it? Like thirteen years ago? A
Speaker 1: long time ago, so you'd like, do a lot of
Speaker 1: guinea pigging. I love it. Now what this is I'm
Speaker 1: kind of annoyed by this question, but I have to
Speaker 1: ask you, when you're traveling, how are you how are
Speaker 1: you rigging up for your meals? Or it's just so
Speaker 1: simple because you're eating such simple things, it's not hard
Speaker 1: to get it. It's super simple. So we took I
Speaker 1: think that that's one of the reasons the desiccated stuff
Speaker 1: is super helpful, right, So we took the desicated stuff
Speaker 1: on the plane. If you don't want to travel with
Speaker 1: liver and spleaning pancreas, it's hard to get. I have done, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to get. You know. We went to
Speaker 1: the co op here in Bozeman and I was like,
Speaker 1: do you guys have any spleen? They're like no, what
Speaker 1: about pancreas? No? And even liver. We might have a
Speaker 1: little liver. I was like, I sweet, I got one
Speaker 1: for a cat's psychologists hanging up in that place. Maybe
Speaker 1: you coming the door, because like all those old signs,
Speaker 1: you like tear off a tab cat's cholos to get
Speaker 1: a shrink for your cat. I had to quit going
Speaker 1: into that store. But they had good meat. They had
Speaker 1: good meat. Maybe you can tell you that's right. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the invite to dinner at Steve's house.
Speaker 1: I didn't get it yet. So that's that's about that.
Speaker 1: That's about all I got right now. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's super simple. So I think for traveling,
Speaker 1: I think, okay, what do I need to eat? I
Speaker 1: want to bring some suet, So I packed a little
Speaker 1: I got a little glass container. I brought some kidney fat.
Speaker 1: Who brings kidney fat on a plane except this guy.
Speaker 1: I brought some kidney fat. I brought some meat, and
Speaker 1: I forgot the liver. So I went to the store.
Speaker 1: I got some liver, and um, yeah, I brought some
Speaker 1: salt on the plane and I'm good. And so I
Speaker 1: didn't finish telling you guys what I eat in a
Speaker 1: day because there's one other thing, because it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: So for the first year and a half I did it.
Speaker 1: I had no carbs, right, no cars It was all keto,
Speaker 1: low carb. And then I started thinking about this a
Speaker 1: little more, and I thought, you know what, I think
Speaker 1: our ancestors would have had fruit occasionally seasonally. I know
Speaker 1: that the hods are really treasure hunty honey. Um. I
Speaker 1: got really interested in honey specifically, and there's really interesting
Speaker 1: data on honey being used to treat period on titus
Speaker 1: and ginger vitis. Honey is actually good for dental health
Speaker 1: in like the true form, which makes sense. It's a
Speaker 1: whole food. There's all kinds of compounds in there. And
Speaker 1: I was living in San Diego and I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel a little cold sometimes I'm gonna reincorporate honey
Speaker 1: back in my diet and see how I feel. And
Speaker 1: of course, the you know part of me is like,
Speaker 1: I can't do that. It's it's not meat, and thought
Speaker 1: it's stupid to be dogmatic. Yeah, it's not a plan.
Speaker 1: And if vegans won't eat it, then I can eat it.
Speaker 1: That's the way I think about it. So I incorporated
Speaker 1: honey back in my diet and I really like it.
Speaker 1: So a lot of days I'll incorporate honey in my
Speaker 1: diet and that makes the whole thing seem a lot
Speaker 1: more appealing to me. And that's why I want you
Speaker 1: guys to read that chapter in the book about the
Speaker 1: Tier one carnivore diet where I say, hey, it's not
Speaker 1: about just eating meat. It's about eating meat in organs,
Speaker 1: but also knowing which parts of the plant are less
Speaker 1: tought sick. And there's a whole section of a carnivore
Speaker 1: ish diet in there where I say, okay, eat meat
Speaker 1: and organs, and then you can eat honey, and then
Speaker 1: like things like avocado and berries and squash. These are fruit.
Speaker 1: I think the fruit is the least toxic part of
Speaker 1: a plant. The plant is trying to get you to
Speaker 1: eat it most of the time. And so I think
Speaker 1: that generally speaking, fruit has been seasonally in our diets,
Speaker 1: and so berries. So when I thought about this, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a version of an animal based diet. This
Speaker 1: is really how I want people to think about a
Speaker 1: carnivore ish diet, an animal based diet. And we're gonna
Speaker 1: make a cookbook that's based on a carnivora is diet
Speaker 1: next year with the same publisher, and it's the idea like, hey,
Speaker 1: eat animal meat and organs as a center of your diet,
Speaker 1: and then you can also have you can have carbohydrates
Speaker 1: if you want them, but eat it from the least
Speaker 1: toxic plant sources. Get rid of the kale and we
Speaker 1: can talk about why, and get rid of the seeds.
Speaker 1: But if you want to do things like avocado or squash,
Speaker 1: or berries or an apple or seasonal fruit, those are
Speaker 1: probably really fine for you. And that I think opens
Speaker 1: up the doors for a lot of people to to
Speaker 1: do this type of a diet. And it's the goal
Speaker 1: is not to be dogmatic. The goal is to help
Speaker 1: people get back to living well. Are you doing, honey
Speaker 1: right now? I do how much I do about do
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty grams of honey a day,
Speaker 1: which is a lot um. So a tablespoon is fifteen grahams,
Speaker 1: so it's about seven to ten tablespoon's day. No milk, No,
Speaker 1: I don't do milk. I don't do dairy. Now, A
Speaker 1: lot of people have trouble with dairy. An logically, I
Speaker 1: think our ancestors wouldn't have even a ton of milk.
Speaker 1: I know the mess. I eat milk, but if you
Speaker 1: can tolerate milk, it's an animal food, it's great. Um.
Speaker 1: But I have trouble with caseine and way I had
Speaker 1: an X amount really bad, which is the reason that
Speaker 1: I did a carnivore diet in the first place. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no ex amounts like bumpy. Yeah. Yeah, but my
Speaker 1: eximuma went went away completely when I did a carnivore
Speaker 1: diet and I tried everything else. I tried Keto and
Speaker 1: Paley and all this other stuff, and it couldn't It
Speaker 1: didn't fix it. So that was the reason I did it.
Speaker 1: But dairy always triggers my EXI must, so I don't
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, do you think if you're giving recommendations
Speaker 1: to people do you think that, like distilled down, is
Speaker 1: your message more that you need people need to add
Speaker 1: to their diet or they needed to take away from
Speaker 1: their diet. I think if you had to do one thing,
Speaker 1: it would be to simplify, and the one thing the
Speaker 1: first thing. So if you wanted to make a hierarchy, right,
Speaker 1: if people wanted to, If I if I were gonna
Speaker 1: recommend people do one thing, it's get rid of those
Speaker 1: vegetable oils. And this hasn't been the total focus of
Speaker 1: our conversation. So I think that if you're gonna do
Speaker 1: one thing, it would be get rid of those vegetable oils.
Speaker 1: And they're in a lot of things, right, So this
Speaker 1: is corn, canola, saf flower, sunflower, soybean oils. They're in
Speaker 1: a lot of foods. If you eliminate those from your
Speaker 1: diet and change nothing else, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people will get to a better place in health. Now.
Speaker 1: I hope people won't stop there. I hope they will
Speaker 1: then add an animal meeting organs, and then I hope
Speaker 1: they will think about the plants they're eating and if
Speaker 1: they can get rid of the most toxic plants. There's
Speaker 1: like three apps, but that's the first step, and the
Speaker 1: first step is just simplify and get rid of the
Speaker 1: processed foods which are really full of those oils, and
Speaker 1: stop cooking with those oils. And part of that for
Speaker 1: a lot of people is also getting the best quality
Speaker 1: meat they can too, you know, because a lot of
Speaker 1: the meat that's fed corn and soy, these are not
Speaker 1: species appropriate diets and it can accumulate. It's what we
Speaker 1: know about things like pigs is that if you feed
Speaker 1: pigs corn and soy, their fat is going to be
Speaker 1: enriched in linelaic acid. And so that's probably a problem
Speaker 1: for a lot of people too. But first thing, cut
Speaker 1: out those vegetable oils and everything with them in it.
Speaker 1: That's higher than cutting out sugar. It is. No I'm
Speaker 1: not saying I want people to keep eating sugar, but
Speaker 1: I think I think I think that I think that
Speaker 1: the single greatest driver of chronic disease and metabolic dysfunction
Speaker 1: in humans is excess linelaic acid. And you can actually
Speaker 1: look at this. There's a fascinating set of graphs out there.
Speaker 1: You can look at human consumption of sugar and grains,
Speaker 1: and you can look at the rates of obesity and
Speaker 1: the rates of diabetes and the rates of chronic disease.
Speaker 1: And though if you look at those graphics, you can
Speaker 1: look at in from consumption of grains and sugar went
Speaker 1: up and sort did our consumption of vegetable oil massively,
Speaker 1: and then around um and rates of diabetes and obesity
Speaker 1: and chronic disease went up to but around between now
Speaker 1: rates of grain consumption and sugar have actually gone down,
Speaker 1: the vegetable oil has continued to rise, and we are
Speaker 1: still getting much fatter, much sicker, much more diabetic, and
Speaker 1: much worse from an autoimmune perspective. So again this is
Speaker 1: just all correlational sort of inference. But what you see
Speaker 1: here is like, huh, this is interesting, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: sugar is not a great thing for humans at all,
Speaker 1: and honey actually looks to behave differently than sugar in humans.
Speaker 1: But if you had to do one thing, it would
Speaker 1: be vegetable oils in my opinion, No ship real quick
Speaker 1: explaining what's the problem with with If you're like, what's
Speaker 1: the problem with Brian meat? Like if the meat is
Speaker 1: okay and the oil is okay, what happens when you
Speaker 1: get it's super hot and cook one and the other right,
Speaker 1: So now I think if you're gonna cook meat in oil,
Speaker 1: you want to do it an animal fat. Oh. Can
Speaker 1: I just tell you one of my new favorites. We've
Speaker 1: had it like three times in the last ten days.
Speaker 1: I raised a bunch of wild turkey thighs and legs,
Speaker 1: and then I've got a jar Brody's bear grease bar
Speaker 1: oil from last fall, and I've been just frying that.
Speaker 1: It's funny if i'd turkey meat in oil in bar oil. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny because if I did it in like vegetable
Speaker 1: oil and peanut oil, I'd be like real careful about
Speaker 1: like taking the meat out and sort of like straining
Speaker 1: it or draining or whatever. But when I do it
Speaker 1: in that bear grease, I'm just like, man, I hope
Speaker 1: it soaks it up so that me and the kids
Speaker 1: are eating it, you know, because it's good. It is good,
Speaker 1: And so I got keep explaining a little bit better.
Speaker 1: I mean the same way that you say, like you
Speaker 1: you'd like to crisp up your Oh, I didn't know
Speaker 1: if you meant your drop like you're dropping a drumstick,
Speaker 1: like frying a drumstick, like like picked braised meat and
Speaker 1: then you fry it and then put it on something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what are you get into up the word again,
Speaker 1: you're getting all messed up on um lipid peroxide. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: break that down for me. So it is very bad
Speaker 1: if maybe maybe not. So you heat it up and
Speaker 1: something bad happen. You heat it up at something bad happens. Now,
Speaker 1: humans have probably been dealing with this for a long
Speaker 1: long time. We know that when we eat foods there
Speaker 1: are compounds produced. When we heat foods and dry heated
Speaker 1: high temperatures, there are lots of things produced that our
Speaker 1: body has to kind of detoxify. Now, a lot of
Speaker 1: people will point to meat and say, oh, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: eat meat that's charged or grilled because of these compounds.
Speaker 1: And some of these are polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heterosticic
Speaker 1: a means, and the body has a way to deal
Speaker 1: with these. But the question is just how much can
Speaker 1: we detoxify and are we you know, are we putting
Speaker 1: a stress on the body. I think that most people,
Speaker 1: if they're healthy and have enough nutrients from good animal
Speaker 1: meat and oregans, can make enough lutth ione, which is
Speaker 1: our endogenous antioxidant. It's how it's part of how our
Speaker 1: body deals with this to detoxify these compounds. But as
Speaker 1: the astronaut, I just thought, what if I decrease them
Speaker 1: as low as possible in my diet? Do I feel better?
Speaker 1: Do my labs change? That's why I do it. I
Speaker 1: just want to experiment and see, like what's the end?
Speaker 1: You know, how do we get people there? The same
Speaker 1: kind of things are happen when you cook food. I
Speaker 1: mean when you cook plants. So coffee has heterocyclic A
Speaker 1: means as well, and so there's a lot even if
Speaker 1: you cook bread and your brown bread or your toast bread.
Speaker 1: There are things like Malleard products, advanced Liketion end products.
Speaker 1: So cooking food creates things that the body has to detoxify.
Speaker 1: We probably have the ability to do it somewhat. You
Speaker 1: just don't want to overload the system, okay, And I
Speaker 1: think that you're underlying health probably determines how well you're
Speaker 1: able to detox about that, So in my mind, I thought,
Speaker 1: what if I just don't get my body any of
Speaker 1: that or the smallest amount possible. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: the experiment I'm doing. I'll agree cooking a ribby and
Speaker 1: tallow is delicious when you get the crust on it.
Speaker 1: What you're talking about there sounds delicious, crispy. Things arelicious.
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna cook in oil, cooking animal fat,
Speaker 1: do not cooking vegetable oil, please. When you cook fats,
Speaker 1: you get what are called lipid peroxides. These are essentially
Speaker 1: free radicals formed by lipids. So a lipid is a
Speaker 1: fat molecule. And what we're talking about here now are electrons,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about unpaired electrons. And these molecules are reactive.
Speaker 1: They can move around the human body and cause damage,
Speaker 1: and so your body has to detoxify them. So I
Speaker 1: think it's just for me. It was the experiment, how
Speaker 1: do I get the least amount of the ease of possible?
Speaker 1: And then can I see in my blood work that
Speaker 1: things like lipid peroxides change or other markers of oxidative stress,
Speaker 1: you know, esoteric markers I use in medicine, like eight
Speaker 1: hydroxy two deoxy iguanasine, which is a marker of DNA damage,
Speaker 1: or malon dialdehyde, all that kind of stuff. So that's
Speaker 1: why I do it. Now, if if somebody came to
Speaker 1: me and said, am I eating too much of these,
Speaker 1: I'd say, well, let's just check some blood work. We
Speaker 1: can see you know, we can look at your oxidative stress.
Speaker 1: I can look at how much glue toothion you've got
Speaker 1: and how much of its oxidized versus reduce. So I
Speaker 1: could tell yeah, you know, like, oh, maybe you want
Speaker 1: to stop doing that as much, or maybe it just
Speaker 1: needs more of the nutrients that are going to allow
Speaker 1: your body to talk about stuff. But that's why I
Speaker 1: do it. Does that make sense? And I'm only not
Speaker 1: trying to be a party pooper, you know, talk about
Speaker 1: like the most boring way to eat food. I just
Speaker 1: think about it medically too. Remember earlier, we're talking about
Speaker 1: objective realities. Okay, I imagine that in the medical community,
Speaker 1: it's possible to draw someone's blood and then look at
Speaker 1: the blood do the blood work on someone, and there
Speaker 1: probably isn't there's probably like an academic consensus about what
Speaker 1: the markers in there, whether that's a healthy person or not.
Speaker 1: Is that true or not true? Generally? Is there something
Speaker 1: still to argue about. There are a few things to
Speaker 1: argue about, but percent of it is like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: can look at inflammatory markers, we can look at markers
Speaker 1: of oxidation, lipid, peroxydes, all that kind of stuff. Yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: so if we drew yours. Let's say I drew yours
Speaker 1: and I took it and just showed I drew your
Speaker 1: blood and had your blood work drawn up, and I
Speaker 1: took it and showed it to It's just a random
Speaker 1: doctor coming down the road. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: what what's up? What do you think when you look
Speaker 1: at this right? What would they be able to tell me?
Speaker 1: Would they say, man, oh, that's really surprising to see
Speaker 1: such low or such high this and that they would
Speaker 1: just say that guy looks really healthy for the most part,
Speaker 1: except for one thing. And we can get into that
Speaker 1: if you want, Like, well, I mean, what is the
Speaker 1: one thing? The one thing is l d L cholesterol,
Speaker 1: which is a whole rabbit hole to go down. So
Speaker 1: but that would pop out to them, that would pop
Speaker 1: out to them for sure, you have a lot of it.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of l d L in my body.
Speaker 1: I do, I do, And everybody's been told that L
Speaker 1: d L is bad for you. But there's a whole
Speaker 1: chapter in my book kind of breaking down that myth
Speaker 1: and talking about how the lipid hypothesis is really wrong
Speaker 1: in my opinion and widely challenged. So we can go
Speaker 1: down the shot they would see or they'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the gala's great. Yeah, if you don't show my LDL.
Speaker 1: If you if you just cover up L d L
Speaker 1: and look at it, they be like, Wow, there's no inflammation.
Speaker 1: His kidneys look fine, his liver looks fine. He's got
Speaker 1: plenty of vitamin markers. He's got his vitamin D is high. Man,
Speaker 1: it's testosterones high. Everything, that's good. What am I? What
Speaker 1: am I looking at this guy? Like? How am I
Speaker 1: looking at here? And then it showing the LDL and
Speaker 1: they kind of like fall out of their chair and
Speaker 1: they'd say, what, he's gonna die. He's gonna he's gonna die.
Speaker 1: He needs a statin. Yeah, yeah, I say he needs
Speaker 1: med's yeah. Absolutely. And I can tell you the story.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty interesting story. But you don't need one.
Speaker 1: I definitely don't. So when my dad, so I'm forty three,
Speaker 1: When my dad was forty three, he had a heart attack.
Speaker 1: So I have a primary relative who had an early
Speaker 1: onset corner artery disease. Right, I've had a high quote
Speaker 1: LDL low density lip, a protein which is colloquially known
Speaker 1: as bad cholesterol, which is totally the wrong. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've had a high l d L four probably three
Speaker 1: plus years, I mean the whole time I've been doing
Speaker 1: a carnivore diet. My l d l's and over two
Speaker 1: hundred and the last one I got was very high.
Speaker 1: And so we can go down rabbit holes. This is
Speaker 1: a very complex discussion about why l d L goes
Speaker 1: up and down. It probably has to do with ratio.
Speaker 1: Is a saturated fat unsaturated fat in the human body,
Speaker 1: and that goes back to previous discussions about whether saturated
Speaker 1: fat is actually bad for humans. I don't believe it
Speaker 1: is at all. It's part of something we've been eating forever.
Speaker 1: But if you just pause there in my story, well
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the rest of the story. So I've
Speaker 1: had a high LDL for over two years, and because
Speaker 1: it was so high, I thought, oh, this is a
Speaker 1: great opportunity to illustrate something. So I had what's called
Speaker 1: a coronary artery calcium score. They do a CT scan
Speaker 1: of your heart and they look for calcium in your arteries,
Speaker 1: which is calcified black. Not a perfect test, but pretty teeth. Yes, exceptually,
Speaker 1: and except it ends up in the heart arteries. And
Speaker 1: this is sort of telling you you have atheros school roses.
Speaker 1: This is the people to people worry about the plaque
Speaker 1: that ruptures in the arteries. Is this plaque? Right? So
Speaker 1: I have zero zero, And so in talking to cardiologists
Speaker 1: and in talking to cardiac radiologists, if you showed them
Speaker 1: my blood work, they would say, oh, yeah, that guy
Speaker 1: has a family history and his dad who had a
Speaker 1: heart attack at his age, and his l d L.
Speaker 1: Right now, my l d L is five and thirty
Speaker 1: four milligrams for desci leader. Uh, most doctors want to
Speaker 1: see it under a hundred. So I'm like superstar and
Speaker 1: l d L I'm like massively high. And they would say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that guy is gonna have plaque. I have zero plaque.
Speaker 1: And there are so many stories like mine about this.
Speaker 1: Now you could say it's not a perfect test, not
Speaker 1: a perfect test, but it's pretty darned sensitive for that
Speaker 1: kind of plaque. And I have a primary relative a
Speaker 1: heart attack in my age. Now I'll just keep getting
Speaker 1: them and showing people that at zero. But it challenges
Speaker 1: the idea that l d L cholesterol equals heart attacks,
Speaker 1: and I challenge this broadly in the book. This is
Speaker 1: such a big misunderstanding, and it's a lot of the
Speaker 1: reason that vegetable oils get recommended to us as healthy
Speaker 1: because vegetable oils lower L d L. Saturated fat raises
Speaker 1: L d L. And yet what do we know about
Speaker 1: vegetable oils. We know they're very unhealthy for people, And
Speaker 1: what do we know about saturated fat, Well, it's pretty
Speaker 1: darned healthy for people. There's a really famous trial called
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Cornery Experiment which was done in nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 1: and they took I think it was over nine thousand people.
Speaker 1: This is a randomized, blinded study. It's interventional study, this
Speaker 1: is not epidemiology. It took over nine thousand people in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: and they put half of them on high saturated fat
Speaker 1: diets or higher saturated fat, and another half on higher
Speaker 1: polyN saturated fat from vegetable oil. And that trial went
Speaker 1: five years, and at the end of the trial, the
Speaker 1: people who had more polyan saturated fat had higher rates
Speaker 1: of death from cancer, heart disease, and overall all cause mortality.
Speaker 1: They clearly died more of all sorts of badness when
Speaker 1: they had more polyan saturated fats. It's a huge study,
Speaker 1: it's very well done. It's sort of like cut and
Speaker 1: dry vegetable oils are horrible for humans, and these are
Speaker 1: the oils that are cardiologists will tell us to eat
Speaker 1: because they lower L d L, and our framework for
Speaker 1: cardiovascular health is entirely l d L centric, totally eldal centric.
Speaker 1: If it raises LDL, it is bad. If it lowers LDEL,
Speaker 1: it's good. Except if you actually dig into the medical
Speaker 1: literature and this gets to be a little les oteric,
Speaker 1: and you look at this. What you find is that
Speaker 1: when you give someone polyon saturated fats like linoleic acid,
Speaker 1: like vegetable oils, they're LDL goes down, but they're oxidized.
Speaker 1: L d L goes up, and another marker called LP
Speaker 1: little A, which is a marker for oxidation and LDL
Speaker 1: also goes up. What we now know is that it's
Speaker 1: not so much about the L d L that you have,
Speaker 1: it's about how much of that is suffering oxidation. There's
Speaker 1: that word again, so oxidation. That's the kind of stuff
Speaker 1: I'm worried about with lipid peroxides and free radicals, and
Speaker 1: polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons is oxidative stress. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: movement of electrons, So you really don't want your l
Speaker 1: d L to be oxidized. And when you give someone
Speaker 1: vegetable oil, more LD'LL gets oxidized. The overall amount of
Speaker 1: l DL goes down, but more LDL gets oxidized. So
Speaker 1: this is one of the sort of last or it's
Speaker 1: just not even a last one. It's just a very
Speaker 1: widely held belief that needs to die because it's just
Speaker 1: wrong and it's hurting people. And in the book, I
Speaker 1: kind of break this down. There's lots of other studies
Speaker 1: that show that more l d L does not always
Speaker 1: equal more cornary arter disease. And it's not the fact
Speaker 1: that LDL just goes into your arteries and causes plaque.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. Because LDL load density liver
Speaker 1: protein is a boat in your body. It's like a
Speaker 1: bus and moves things around the body. It's valuable for humans.
Speaker 1: It moves steroid backbone molecules to your testicles, to the ovaries,
Speaker 1: to the adrenal glands, to your brain to make all
Speaker 1: the hormones that make us human beings. We need. This molecule,
Speaker 1: l d L and HDL it's counterpart, also play a
Speaker 1: role in the immune response. If you talk about kids
Speaker 1: who don't have enough l d L, they get sick
Speaker 1: way more often. There's a genetic condition with a mutation
Speaker 1: in the enzyme that makes cholesterol. Now, cholesterol is a
Speaker 1: steroid backbone molecule that gets packaged into the l d
Speaker 1: L particle. L d L is a bus that carries triglycerides,
Speaker 1: which are fat molecules, and cholesterol, and so l d
Speaker 1: L and cholesterol are sort of synonymous colloquially, but that's
Speaker 1: not really the correct terminology. Cholesterol is a steroid backbone
Speaker 1: molecule that gets made by our body and packaged into
Speaker 1: l d L. There's a genetic condition called Smith Lemley
Speaker 1: op Pits syndrome in which kids can't make or humans
Speaker 1: can't make LDL or they can't make cholesterol, which results
Speaker 1: in very low levels of l d L. A lot
Speaker 1: of these kids die in utero, and those that are
Speaker 1: born have pretty seriously bad medical conditions. They have a
Speaker 1: lot of times mental retardation, they have recurring infections, and
Speaker 1: the way they are treated is they are given egg
Speaker 1: yolks they are given lots and lots of egg yolks,
Speaker 1: which are super rich in cholesterol. So we give kids
Speaker 1: back cholesterol and they do better when they can't make it.
Speaker 1: And yet we are told by the medical establishment that
Speaker 1: this molecule, this l d L cholesterol molecule, or cholesterol
Speaker 1: in general, are trying to kill us. And it kind
Speaker 1: of goes back to this theme that we've been talking
Speaker 1: about throughout this podcast. Why would something that has been
Speaker 1: an essential part of our evolution suddenly be bad for us,
Speaker 1: whether it's eating me and organs, or whether it's a
Speaker 1: molecule that's essential to human health, why would that be
Speaker 1: bad for us? We have to rethink these paradigms, but
Speaker 1: so much of medicine move so lowly. It's like the Titanic.
Speaker 1: You just can't change these paradigms. They're just so bent
Speaker 1: on it. But that's why I do the work I do.
Speaker 1: L d L is not the enemy. The enemy is
Speaker 1: the underlying metabolic dysfunction and or it's synonymous with insulin
Speaker 1: resistance or pre diabetes. That really lights the LDL on fire,
Speaker 1: but it didn't cause the blaze. So at a very
Speaker 1: broad strokes level, I asked people to think about it
Speaker 1: like this. Imagine l d L like wood in your garage.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get spontaneous conduction into that would. You
Speaker 1: have to have a spark, And that spark is underlying
Speaker 1: metabolic disfunction. Without a spark, that l d L is
Speaker 1: actually just valuable because you can build a house out
Speaker 1: of it. You could build a house or a cabin,
Speaker 1: or you could build a treehouse for your kids out
Speaker 1: of that wood in your garage. But if you get
Speaker 1: gasoline there and you light a fire, that that wood's
Speaker 1: gonna go up. So because the LDL is involved in
Speaker 1: a plaque, doesn't mean that l d L caused the plaque.
Speaker 1: It's the spark. And so what is the spark. The
Speaker 1: spark is metabolic dysfunction. How does metabolicas function come about?
Speaker 1: Linelaic acid and vegetable oils explain to me as though
Speaker 1: five years old katosis. Okay, the keto diet. So this
Speaker 1: is a completely different we're going off topic. Oh no, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going we're going. Yeah, okay, So I'm being mindful
Speaker 1: of where we're at, where we gotta get so we're
Speaker 1: pos if I walk out of here. Oh no, there's
Speaker 1: a pause, because I thought we were like I thought
Speaker 1: that that felt like a great summation. I just I
Speaker 1: just thought you maybe you ask that questions. Okay, No,
Speaker 1: I never knew any of that stuff because over here
Speaker 1: shaking his head like, well, you know, like I know,
Speaker 1: I love it. It's just I'm gonna ask to listen
Speaker 1: to this podcast again too, because there's just a lot
Speaker 1: of words that you know, this is the first time
Speaker 1: I've heard them, right, So let me know if you
Speaker 1: want to clarify them, and I'll do my best. I
Speaker 1: think we can move on. I want to go. We're
Speaker 1: talking about Keto. Yeah, we got a little checklists and
Speaker 1: stuff we got um Janni weirdly put one down and
Speaker 1: took it away. Oh no, it's back again. What what
Speaker 1: did I take away? Oh no, I'm still there. Sorry, Okay,
Speaker 1: ketosis like I'm five, Okay, like I'm five. Were here
Speaker 1: a lot these days about the Keto diet. Going into
Speaker 1: like going into katosa sounds like a bad thing, would
Speaker 1: have like something bad is happening to you. Traditionally people
Speaker 1: have thought about keatos is a bad thing, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it is at all. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: our bodies very precisely evolved defense mechanism against oarvation. It's
Speaker 1: basically how your body uses stored fat as fuel. So
Speaker 1: you have a couple of gas tanks in your body.
Speaker 1: You're like a car with two gas tanks. One gas
Speaker 1: tank is called glycogen, it's in your liver and your muscles,
Speaker 1: and the other gas tank is called fat. And generally speaking,
Speaker 1: if humans are fat, they can survive a long winter.
Speaker 1: You've got stored fat. We don't want to be extra fat,
Speaker 1: but we've all got a couple of pounds, many pounds
Speaker 1: of fat in our bodies, so that if we don't eat,
Speaker 1: or we don't have a successful hunt, we can turn
Speaker 1: that into fuels. For one second, is it true that
Speaker 1: that that fat people um stay warm better? I think thermodynamically, yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I mean just from a I mean
Speaker 1: whenever I've been out surfing in the ocean and there's
Speaker 1: fat guys out there, they're often way way way warmer
Speaker 1: than I am. I mean it's like seal blubber right,
Speaker 1: Like it's insulation because like people are like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're cold because you're skinny, it's possible. Am I am cold? Well?
Speaker 1: And sometimes whop sometimes who get cold because they their
Speaker 1: thyroid doesn't work. But you know, all things being equal,
Speaker 1: you know, if we have equivalent thyroid function and equivalent
Speaker 1: baseline metabolism, which is how you generate heat, because your
Speaker 1: body can generate its own heat with brown fat, things
Speaker 1: like that, mitochondrial uncoupling, the you can you know, if
Speaker 1: you put on a bunch of layers, you would be warmer.
Speaker 1: You know, hold on, do you understand what mitochondrial uncoupling is.
Speaker 1: Nobody understand if I put on a few layers, I'll
Speaker 1: be warmer. You know that if you put on a
Speaker 1: neoprene suit, you'd be warmer. So that's what it's doing.
Speaker 1: It's just like insulation. Now I'll get back into the keyto.
Speaker 1: So keyto. We have two energies ones in your muscle livers,
Speaker 1: ones in your fat, ones in your fat. And the
Speaker 1: way that you access your fat is through keytnes. In
Speaker 1: order to pull that fuel and burn it by the
Speaker 1: rest of your body. You turn that fat into keytnes,
Speaker 1: so you can do something called beta oxidation. And the
Speaker 1: way that you move that fat around your body is
Speaker 1: and keytones. It's one way that it happens. So keytones
Speaker 1: are just an alternative fuel that your body uses when
Speaker 1: you don't have enough carbohydrates or when you're starving in general.
Speaker 1: And that's essentially how it happens. You use that fat,
Speaker 1: you turn it in key tones. Those keytones move around
Speaker 1: the body and they get turned back into substrate that
Speaker 1: your body can use to burn. And the goal being
Speaker 1: to get rid of the fat, not necessarily to get
Speaker 1: rid of I mean, the goal of ketogenic diets is, yes,
Speaker 1: to get rid of the fat, but you can get
Speaker 1: rid of fat without being ketogenic, So what is the goal?
Speaker 1: Ketogenic diets were originally developed for kids with seizures because
Speaker 1: they really yeah, because they realized medically, that's why they
Speaker 1: were developed. Humans have always been in ketosis. If you're
Speaker 1: out hunting and you don't have it, you don't eat
Speaker 1: anything for twenty four hours or seventy two hours, you're
Speaker 1: going into keytosis because your body is gonna use them.
Speaker 1: Everybody that fasts it goes into keytosis. Yeah, and our
Speaker 1: ancestors definitely had periods where they didn't have any substantially
Speaker 1: meaning you're tapping into body fat. You're tapping into body fat,
Speaker 1: and it's not you can also eat but if you
Speaker 1: don't get enough calories because your body has It's like
Speaker 1: you have a car. That car needs a certain amount
Speaker 1: of energy to run every day. The lights in this studio,
Speaker 1: you have to put energy into those lights. You have
Speaker 1: to put energy into this brain, these eyeballs. Everything in
Speaker 1: your body needs energy. So you if you only eat
Speaker 1: calories a day, how does your body make up the difference.
Speaker 1: It makes up the difference by pulling it from fat
Speaker 1: once it pulls out of glycogen the first gas tank.
Speaker 1: Your body uses glycogen generally speaking, and then it goes
Speaker 1: into fat once you exhaust the glycogen. So for most
Speaker 1: people it takes about twenty four hours to exhaust the
Speaker 1: glycogen and then your body switches over to burning fat
Speaker 1: and making it in ketones. Some people have less the glycogen,
Speaker 1: but if you don't eat carbohydrates, your body doesn't really
Speaker 1: make as much glycogen. That's a broad stroke statement because
Speaker 1: it's not entirely true, but in broad strokes, that's what
Speaker 1: we're talking about, that you have less stored carbohydrate when
Speaker 1: you are in ketoses, and that's then it puts you
Speaker 1: into catos is quicker quicker or you stay in ketosis
Speaker 1: long term because generally speaking, we have thought about ketoses
Speaker 1: as starvation or not eating. But you can eat food
Speaker 1: would and still be in ketosis if you don't eat carbohydrates.
Speaker 1: Depending on the ratio of protein and fat. If you
Speaker 1: eat too much protein, you won't be in ketosis because
Speaker 1: your body can turn protein into glucose, right, But if
Speaker 1: you eat a lot of fat and a small amount
Speaker 1: of protein or a modernmount of protein, you can get
Speaker 1: into ketosis. Now what we know is is there a benefit?
Speaker 1: Is there a benefit to being in ketosis besides the
Speaker 1: fact besides the fact that you're diminishing fat, Like, what
Speaker 1: are you really getting from it? There are absolutely benefits
Speaker 1: to being in ketosis, but that doesn't mean you should
Speaker 1: be in it all the time. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: this evolutionary switch. We certainly would have had it occasionally.
Speaker 1: At a broad level, things change in your genetics. Different
Speaker 1: genes get turned on and off when you're a ketosis
Speaker 1: because these ketone molecules there are two major ketone molecules
Speaker 1: in your body. These ketone molecules affect which genes get
Speaker 1: turned on and off. And you'll here we will talk
Speaker 1: about this as quotes cellular house cleaning, and so what
Speaker 1: your body does is auto fogy. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys have heard that war. Cellular house cleaning, it
Speaker 1: means eating yourself. So it cleans up old, dead, kind
Speaker 1: of broken proteins and cells. When you're in that autophagy
Speaker 1: state and when you are eating less carbohydrates or when
Speaker 1: you are fasting, is when your body kind of goes
Speaker 1: toward auto It's a balance between building and tearing down.
Speaker 1: Talk about doing a cleanse yes and no, is it clean?
Speaker 1: And what? Well, there's a lot of stuff to clean.
Speaker 1: I mean there are there's a lot of cellular components
Speaker 1: for humans to clean, and we need to do this occasionally.
Speaker 1: And your body has mechanisms the kind of clean house.
Speaker 1: Just like your house gets dirty whether you have kids
Speaker 1: or not. If you have kids, you know, your house
Speaker 1: just gets dirty by itself because of the kids. And
Speaker 1: even if you don't have kids, your house still gets dirty.
Speaker 1: This is entropy. Things break, they kind of go wrong.
Speaker 1: Your body needs time to do this cellular house cleaning,
Speaker 1: and this happens when you are fasting or when you
Speaker 1: can enable your body to do it. When you have
Speaker 1: a caloric deficit. So like I said, if you have
Speaker 1: if you have a baseline requirement for calories a day,
Speaker 1: or two thousand calories a day, and you only eat
Speaker 1: eight hundred, your body is gonna make up the rest
Speaker 1: by burning glycogen or by burning stored fat. And when
Speaker 1: you are in that state, when you were in a
Speaker 1: calorically deficient state, your body does this house cleaning state,
Speaker 1: this auto fog that's been associated with a lot of
Speaker 1: good things and humans, a lot of better outcomes and
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. So it's helpful, but you can
Speaker 1: over use it. It's something we should cycle in and
Speaker 1: out of, and it doesn't have to be complex. This
Speaker 1: is the way it always would have been. You don't
Speaker 1: get an animal every day you go hunting. Our ancestors
Speaker 1: didn't either. There were times they were fasting, there were
Speaker 1: times they had caloric deficits, and they were times they
Speaker 1: feasted and they had caloric excess. It's built into our physiology.
Speaker 1: The problem is that we eat every day. A lot
Speaker 1: of people eat every day and they have caloric excess
Speaker 1: every single day. They never do time restricted feeding. Remember
Speaker 1: earlier when I was talking about I was talking about
Speaker 1: my diet, and I eat two meals a day. I
Speaker 1: have a time restricted feeding window. That's just something I
Speaker 1: leverage most days where I eat breakfast in a late
Speaker 1: lunch and then all fast about sixteen hours every day,
Speaker 1: and I wake up in ketosis even though I'm eating
Speaker 1: honey right, So even though I'm getting hy grams of carbohydrates,
Speaker 1: I'm using my liver glycogen. My body is using stored
Speaker 1: fat to make keytones. But keytones are beneficial for humans
Speaker 1: and that they change things, and it's valuable, but it shouldn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should happen all the time, and
Speaker 1: so it should be sicklic and so the keyto genic
Speaker 1: diet is leveraging a lot of these ideas. But you
Speaker 1: don't have to be keyto to get into keytosis. You
Speaker 1: can eat carbohydrates and just fast, or you can eat
Speaker 1: carbohydrates and just do a calorie restricted diet on some days.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? So, but it is valuable I
Speaker 1: think for humans to go into that state of caloric
Speaker 1: deficiency one way or another. The key to diet just
Speaker 1: makes it long term for people because they don't eat carps.
Speaker 1: I think there are downsides to that as well, um
Speaker 1: and we can talk about those if you want, uh,
Speaker 1: do you believe? Do you ever use the term fad diet?
Speaker 1: I mean, not for a carnivore diet. I've heard the term,
Speaker 1: but I had a friend one time that was on
Speaker 1: a diet where you were on a diet six days
Speaker 1: a week and then you had a cheap day, right.
Speaker 1: And I'm member when every dude that lived in certain
Speaker 1: towns where I hang out, like for instance, remember when
Speaker 1: like every dude in Miles City was on the Atkins diet.
Speaker 1: But they're not now, Okay, you're about like the Keto diet.
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that soon people will not beyond the
Speaker 1: keyto diet just because the ebb and flow of diets.
Speaker 1: Like where does the carnivore diet fit into this? Like
Speaker 1: will it have it? Does it have a life expectancy?
Speaker 1: I hope not? And I hope that thinking outside of
Speaker 1: the box a little bit and not making it dogmatic
Speaker 1: will will give it that that that absence or will
Speaker 1: exempt it from a life expectancy. It's more of a lifestyle,
Speaker 1: and I hope I've done a decent job of helping
Speaker 1: people understand that. It's it's just the same asking the question,
Speaker 1: what do our ancestors do, and how do we to
Speaker 1: thrive to lifestyle. It's not a this diet or that diet.
Speaker 1: It's like, what are the foods that nourish us? What
Speaker 1: are the least toxic plants? How do we feel as
Speaker 1: good as we and as humans? That's my idea. What
Speaker 1: the carnin word? I You gotta call it something, right.
Speaker 1: I wish, you know, you could call it the carnin
Speaker 1: ward lifestyle, but people wouldn't understand what it was. But
Speaker 1: that's the way I think about it. It's just asking
Speaker 1: questions as a physician, as an outdoorsman, as somebody who
Speaker 1: likes to go run in the mountains and hunt. How
Speaker 1: do I get to do these things as well as
Speaker 1: I can? How do I help my patients and my clients?
Speaker 1: And what our ancestors do? Those are the questions that
Speaker 1: are most interesting to me. So I don't want it
Speaker 1: to have that and I certainly didn't make it up.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think our answers have been eating this
Speaker 1: way for a long time, and there's plenty of tribes.
Speaker 1: There's an Amazonian tribe called the Kayoe Menno who eat
Speaker 1: a lot of this way. They eat animal meeting organs
Speaker 1: and fruit when it's seasonal. Indigenous people don't eat vegetables
Speaker 1: like we think they do. They kind of get that stems, roots, seeds,
Speaker 1: and leaves, especially the stems, leaves and seeds, we're not
Speaker 1: really good human food. They're not very calorically dense. A
Speaker 1: lot of the time, I got a lot of toxins.
Speaker 1: So that's the idea there. So it's not intended to
Speaker 1: be a fad diet. And I've never been a super
Speaker 1: fan of the cheat day idea either, because it doesn't
Speaker 1: work human I saw the cheat day get abused. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because look, I mean a lot of the a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are finding benefits with the carnivore cheesecake factory, right,
Speaker 1: they're finding benefits from an autoimmune perspective. And that's what's
Speaker 1: so interesting to me about it. A lot of the
Speaker 1: diseases we see in Western society or today are autoimmune lupus,
Speaker 1: show grins um, you know, autoimmune thyroid itis, all this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I mean, X and my like I had,
Speaker 1: these are autoimmune diseases. Our immune system is overactivated. There's
Speaker 1: something going on here, and the immune system has a
Speaker 1: longer memory than seven days. We know this with things
Speaker 1: like celiact disease or gluten intolerance. So if you really
Speaker 1: want your immune system to calm down, you gotta keep
Speaker 1: you gotta prevent, you know, exposing it to foods that
Speaker 1: are going to trigger it every seven days. A lot
Speaker 1: of people think about diets and food just from a
Speaker 1: weight loss perspective, and that's why I think a carnival
Speaker 1: diet is different. We're thinking about things in terms of
Speaker 1: human health and how we can help people live in
Speaker 1: the most quality lives. Weight loss is secondary, but Atkins
Speaker 1: was all about weight loss. All these diets are about
Speaker 1: weight loss, weight loss and how you look as a human.
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in how Yeah, that's a good point, man,
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. It was like it wasn't like
Speaker 1: optimal performance. It was aesthetic, right, aesthetic. I'm more interested
Speaker 1: in how you feel, how you how you how your
Speaker 1: mood is, how well you think, how poised you are,
Speaker 1: how emotionally calm you are with your kids and your
Speaker 1: wife or your husband or your partner. You know, like
Speaker 1: quality of life. And I think that if you do
Speaker 1: that you'll look good too. That's like a bonus. But
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sacrifice nutrition and optimal human health
Speaker 1: at the expense of somebody looking good. M hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And weight Watch is probably the most the most famous
Speaker 1: diet ever and it's right in its name, right, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it's focused on. It's focused on aesthetics
Speaker 1: and weight loss. That cheat Day diet was that way
Speaker 1: too write with no attention to human health. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it was called the cheat day. I ain't
Speaker 1: a lot of them have that. Tim Ferris had a
Speaker 1: cheat day, I know when he talked about his Way eight.
Speaker 1: But Paleo sounds pretty similar to this, right, I mean
Speaker 1: they're always talking about eating with the ancestors eight, right,
Speaker 1: is there a big difference? There is a big difference.
Speaker 1: It asks the same questions. It just answers the question differently.
Speaker 1: It's saying, what are our ancestors eat? And actually, you
Speaker 1: know what's funny is I had I'm good friends with
Speaker 1: Rob Wolf who wrote the Paleo Solution, and Lauren Cordaine
Speaker 1: who wrote the Paleo Diet. I've had them both of
Speaker 1: my podcast, and I think as we start to think
Speaker 1: about this more, I love that question, how to our
Speaker 1: ancestors eat? I just have a different answer and My
Speaker 1: answer says, leafy greens and seeds hate you and don't
Speaker 1: want to get eaten. Kale doesn't love you back, you know,
Speaker 1: and a paleo diet. They're like, eat your leafy greens,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, leavy greens, spinach and kale, hey you,
Speaker 1: they don't want to get eaten. Don't eat those foods.
Speaker 1: So as much as you could call it the cardinal diet,
Speaker 1: you could also call me the anti broccoli crusader. Like
Speaker 1: that's what's different about it, you know. It's like I
Speaker 1: just wanted people to understand we draw the ideas a
Speaker 1: little different. We we ask the same questions. They're valuable questions,
Speaker 1: I think, but we just answer them differently based on
Speaker 1: anthropology and ethnography and biomedical science, and say, why are
Speaker 1: we eating kale in the first place? Let make any sense.
Speaker 1: It is interesting, man, when you go into a garden
Speaker 1: and you're like, uh, you know you grow tomatoes. You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I asked the member of the night shade family. Dude,
Speaker 1: that family is full of ship that will kill you.
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely if you eat this one. It's a
Speaker 1: certain way. But you know, you look at the animal kingdom.
Speaker 1: I mean you can point to that puffer fish liver,
Speaker 1: but generally, like my kids like, is that bird edible?
Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, man, all birds are edible. They're just edible.
Speaker 1: They're like they might not. I'm not telling you they're
Speaker 1: going to taste good, but they're edible, and they'll be like,
Speaker 1: is that animal edible? Yes, yes, that's exactly what we
Speaker 1: talked about. You know, there are a few rare exceptions
Speaker 1: that frog in the Amazon, the ones, the ones we
Speaker 1: know about, and the power fish. But of animals readible,
Speaker 1: you can't say that about plants, right, You just can't.
Speaker 1: And all the unique new like any vertebrate the lake,
Speaker 1: like can I eat that? You can eat that? You
Speaker 1: like it? You can eat it. And yet if you
Speaker 1: and I walk into the woods and we just start
Speaker 1: eating swaths of plants, we're gonna be We're gonna be
Speaker 1: pooping our pants before we get very fair. We get
Speaker 1: excited about the ones that don't mess you up. They're like,
Speaker 1: I mean I could eat this the plant, it's like
Speaker 1: a very small proportion that will. And the ones you
Speaker 1: point out, the ones you be like, no, ship, you
Speaker 1: can eat it. Yeah, it's not gonna be good for
Speaker 1: you which mushroom is not going to kill you? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you mean this one won't kill me? Sweet man. You see,
Speaker 1: there's such a good point, right Anything that's like still
Speaker 1: and growing on the ground, you have to be worried
Speaker 1: about it. You have to have almost a doctorate to
Speaker 1: know if you can eat it or not yet. But
Speaker 1: if it runs or flies, good to go? Yeah, like berries, kids, like,
Speaker 1: can we eat this one? Man? I don't know they're not.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're not, but that one I
Speaker 1: know is actually safe. That stands out as safe. And
Speaker 1: that's that's that? Isn't that so interesting? It just makes
Speaker 1: so much sense right now. It's a funny point, man,
Speaker 1: the more you think about it. With the plant toxins,
Speaker 1: can you touch on safety? I read that word or
Speaker 1: sat satiety. I think there's two ways to pronounce it.
Speaker 1: Making that word was in the book a lot talking
Speaker 1: about how our current diet basically you just never get full.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, this is super interesting in it all
Speaker 1: I say satiety like like comes from insatiable. So there
Speaker 1: are a couple of reasons that our current diet is
Speaker 1: not satiating. But I've had a lot of friends anecdotally
Speaker 1: tell me they try plant based diets and they're like,
Speaker 1: I'm always freaking hungry, and then they try an animal
Speaker 1: base and they're like, Wow, I felt full for the
Speaker 1: first time in so long, And I'm thinking, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: So society is complex, it's complex physiology and the human brain.
Speaker 1: But you know, just going back to what we were
Speaker 1: talking about with linteleic acid, there's really good evidence that
Speaker 1: linneleic acid makes us hungry. There's molecular mechanisms in the
Speaker 1: brain by which linoleic acid triggers hunger and saturated fat,
Speaker 1: which is found in animals, triggers satiety. And we don't
Speaker 1: have to get into why that works, but in the hypothalamus,
Speaker 1: which is part of the satiety center in the brain,
Speaker 1: these two fatty acids affect our selves and our mitochondria differently.
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing is that vegetable oils make
Speaker 1: you hungry. They're sabotaging your sotiety. We talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about sugar. Processed foods absolutely make you hungry, and
Speaker 1: I think there's nutrient density the sensing in the human body.
Speaker 1: If you are not getting the nutrients found in meat
Speaker 1: and liver, all those magical nutrients quote unquote that I
Speaker 1: talked about earlier Colleene Carnatiene Carnescene. You are not going
Speaker 1: to be satiated because your body is like I am
Speaker 1: deficient in something and it knows it. You can't tell.
Speaker 1: You don't have like your computer chip, like a diagnostic
Speaker 1: in your car, Like I'm deficient to ride with lave
Speaker 1: and I should go eat some liver. But you get
Speaker 1: cravings and they go out of whack when you're pregnant,
Speaker 1: and it big winds up being the thing everybody talks
Speaker 1: about exactly, and you only can crave things you've had.
Speaker 1: So people say, well, why don't I crave liver? What
Speaker 1: when was the last time you eat liver? Right? Like
Speaker 1: you all you know is that you crave something. And
Speaker 1: that's so society is huge, And I think that I've
Speaker 1: never liked weight loss strategies that put people in a
Speaker 1: mental prison. You're never going to be able to calorie
Speaker 1: restrict for your whole life. Calorie restricting and starving yourself
Speaker 1: is a fantastic way to lose weight. It's also a
Speaker 1: fantastic way to have your life suck really bad, and like,
Speaker 1: why are you living life if it's so miser bole
Speaker 1: and your body will find a way. You will never
Speaker 1: stay in calorie prison your whole life unless you are
Speaker 1: super motivated, and what's the point of living in that way?
Speaker 1: So that's why dietary constructions like this, they're fascinating to
Speaker 1: me that actually emphasize nutrient density and ancestrally consistent diet
Speaker 1: and they create sutiety without making us feel like we
Speaker 1: are depriving ourselves. And you don't even have to have
Speaker 1: caloric deficit. So it's a huge topic and I think
Speaker 1: that you can starve yourself, but it's not going to
Speaker 1: work long term. I so appreciate that, just because I
Speaker 1: think the mindset of focusing on the outward appearance of
Speaker 1: someone's body and being calorie restricted, it's just led to
Speaker 1: so much, um, I don't know, so much pain, to
Speaker 1: say the least, for both men and women. But traditionally
Speaker 1: we think about women. You know, I have a younger
Speaker 1: sister and when she was growing up, you know, I
Speaker 1: I see it because I have a younger sister, Like,
Speaker 1: there's so much body image. I know men experience it too,
Speaker 1: but for women it's especially destructive. You know, it's really hard,
Speaker 1: and it's the same kind of idea. And in a
Speaker 1: while we're on the topic. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: women don't think about red meat and organs as food
Speaker 1: because they're afraid of making them fat. But I really
Speaker 1: believe strongly that this is a game changer for women
Speaker 1: as well, because it's like, this is the food your
Speaker 1: body is craving. And I talk about this in a
Speaker 1: study in the book. We can look at things like
Speaker 1: evoked response potentials in the brain. This is one of
Speaker 1: the coolest parts of the book. And you can show
Speaker 1: vegetarians and vegans and omnivores pictures of meat, and you
Speaker 1: can look at with an e G and electro and cephalogram,
Speaker 1: we can look at we can look at the way
Speaker 1: different parts of the brain fire, and you can look
Speaker 1: at deeper regions of the brain like the brain stem
Speaker 1: kind of these lizard brain parts or you know, dyean
Speaker 1: cephalon parts like more ancestral or more i should say,
Speaker 1: more ancient parts of the brain. And you can look
Speaker 1: at the neo cortex, like the more recent parts of
Speaker 1: the brain. And when you show a vegetarian or a
Speaker 1: vegan a picture of meat, they get this sort of
Speaker 1: conscious aversion. But the subconscious part of their brain still goes,
Speaker 1: he's giving me. That's so you're saying, like evolutionary, evolutionarily,
Speaker 1: over time we have we are encoded to recognize something
Speaker 1: as nutrient giving and good for our body. But other
Speaker 1: parts of the brain which are like we've programmed during
Speaker 1: this lifetime based upon messaging and learning to be like, no,
Speaker 1: that's bad. But so we're just not in That's why
Speaker 1: they make plant food look like sausage and bacon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't, you know, makes you think of is that? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why you take ship and try to get it to
Speaker 1: look like that? Like why why is it not its
Speaker 1: own thing? Like why why did veggie burgers or what
Speaker 1: they call him soybers? Why did they steal the burgers groove?
Speaker 1: But there's a there's an our part of this too.
Speaker 1: It was like they find that, um, I don't know
Speaker 1: how they measure, but there's a similar thing. Humans like
Speaker 1: overlooks and humans like shorelines, and it'd be like the rich,
Speaker 1: you know, like when you look at human just like
Speaker 1: the African diaspora. And when when humans started colonizing the world,
Speaker 1: it was you know, coastal routes, coastal routes and river routes,
Speaker 1: and so it seems that there's this sort of association
Speaker 1: with shorelines, land meats, water like the beach right triggers
Speaker 1: a thing where you're like, that's a good spot. And
Speaker 1: then also this idea that humans like and overlook. They
Speaker 1: like to be like, ha, I can see everything around me,
Speaker 1: and like it pleases some deep down thing in you
Speaker 1: to just see what's up. Not gonna be surprised. I
Speaker 1: know what's going on down there. People going in the
Speaker 1: restaurant and wanting the corner seat, and too, you know,
Speaker 1: their back is to both walls, so they can see
Speaker 1: periphectly everything around them. They don't have that feeling's gonna
Speaker 1: head behind me. You know. Yeah's some of my wife's say,
Speaker 1: because someone in Baja told me that. And you know
Speaker 1: it's like the old thing that you when you open
Speaker 1: a door and little woman going first, and someone house
Speaker 1: tell me that, Uh, you know, he's saying that's cultural.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like it's cultural, but it's regional. And
Speaker 1: he was saying here it would be that you'd go
Speaker 1: in first to make sure everything's cool. You don't open
Speaker 1: the door and be like you going first. I'm not
Speaker 1: going in there. It's like you go in and it
Speaker 1: looks good. Things are cool. Everybody, your family comes in there,
Speaker 1: there's stand there and send them all in and then
Speaker 1: be like, good luck, I'll be through last the first.
Speaker 1: Do you guys know what percentage of vegetarians and vegans
Speaker 1: eat meat when they get drunk. It's astronomical. I think
Speaker 1: it's thirty to forty plus percent. I mean, like cortex,
Speaker 1: it starts getting you down to your reptilian brain. And
Speaker 1: that's not an uncontrovertible argument. That means for humans, you know,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe it's even more, but it's a
Speaker 1: massive amount. You asked me earlier about truth. Well there's
Speaker 1: your truth, man. When you say that both like corner
Speaker 1: board dieters and vegans, uh, when they get drunk, they
Speaker 1: all eat pizza and they want their dough. It's possible.
Speaker 1: It's possible, And you know, I think you could you
Speaker 1: could say that, um, but I wonder I don't think
Speaker 1: you could draw the inference then that that's necessarily good
Speaker 1: for humans, just that that's like a uniquely addictive false
Speaker 1: food for humans, because nobody's gonna say, like, well, pizza
Speaker 1: is clearly a vitamin, like that doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that we've figured out that's a
Speaker 1: whole separate discussion about the way that we've hijacked human satiety.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And then we've the fact that we've
Speaker 1: made these things super addictive, but evolutionarily, there's no such
Speaker 1: thing as pizza. There's the thing I wanted to mention earlier,
Speaker 1: um that that my wife does that our kids that
Speaker 1: I think is helpful and what I came to mind
Speaker 1: when we were talking about earlier, like that to try
Speaker 1: to get yourself into a position where you feel really good,
Speaker 1: where you have an awareness of your body, and to
Speaker 1: strip things away to a point where like, okay, like
Speaker 1: I feel optimal right now. Like let's say you go
Speaker 1: on you know, uh hunt for a week and you're
Speaker 1: not at home snacking on normal garbage, and you're really
Speaker 1: pouring it to it physically every day, your meal structure
Speaker 1: changes and at the end of your like, god, like,
Speaker 1: I never feel this good. And then you just like
Speaker 1: lazily go back into all this ship that makes you
Speaker 1: not feel good, but you hit a point where you're like,
Speaker 1: this is what I would like to feel, like wide awake,
Speaker 1: a lot of energy, sleep, very soundly at night, right,
Speaker 1: and you hit kind of like a thing that a
Speaker 1: thing to strive to and just listen to your body
Speaker 1: when when when our kids are in a situation like
Speaker 1: let they go to a birthday party and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, whatever reason, someone's hands them like a piece
Speaker 1: of cake the size of a book. Right. Uh, She'll
Speaker 1: say she like introduced this idea, she said, like, go ahead,
Speaker 1: listen to your body, you know. And it's funny, man,
Speaker 1: when you remind him of that, they will not eat
Speaker 1: as much because just making them be like, oh that's right,
Speaker 1: and they'll be like, you know what, my body's telling me,
Speaker 1: I'm done. But they need to be invited. They need
Speaker 1: to be invited and reminded to be like ask yourself
Speaker 1: when you think you've had enough of that ship, and
Speaker 1: hopefully and they're like, oh, yeah, you know what I do.
Speaker 1: I think I have had enough of that ship, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're more likely to walk away and hopefully, you know,
Speaker 1: parents can help their kids or you know, realize after
Speaker 1: they binge on Halloween candy or the cake, when the
Speaker 1: kids are like I don't feel good, I feel anxious,
Speaker 1: or I'm just you know, like do you think this
Speaker 1: is related to the food you ate. Listen to your body.
Speaker 1: I love it. I think that's what we need to
Speaker 1: teach our kids. But you bring up this great point
Speaker 1: that we talked on her earlier. It's just how many
Speaker 1: of us have taken the time to get to the
Speaker 1: point where we know what that optimal feels like, and
Speaker 1: then you can see the deviance. It's signal versus noise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I used to have it, uh where I tell my
Speaker 1: wife like, God, I'm like, it's just so depressed today.
Speaker 1: And she goes, let's walk back a step. Let's walk
Speaker 1: back step. Were you pretty drunk forty eight hours ago?
Speaker 1: And I was like, my god, I was I forgot
Speaker 1: about that. She goes, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe something. They're
Speaker 1: funny that we've had this conversation thirty times. YEA, totally true.
Speaker 1: All right. So Paul Saladino m D how long you've
Speaker 1: been a doctor for all a long a long time,
Speaker 1: Like you went out of college and no, I, um,
Speaker 1: I guess it depends when you described me as a doctor.
Speaker 1: But I finished residency. I've got a medical school six
Speaker 1: years ago. So yeah, I'm a little bit. I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh. Your non tread. I'm little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older than most docs who have
Speaker 1: been out that long because I took six years off
Speaker 1: after college and just played and explored into my own return.
Speaker 1: Yeah do you did you immediately And I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask this earlier, just never got to it, But did
Speaker 1: you immediately get into diet type stuff and or what
Speaker 1: was your original medicine that you're going to work in? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've always been interested in diet before. The reason I
Speaker 1: said a long time was because I before I went
Speaker 1: to medical school, I was a physician assistant and I
Speaker 1: worked in cardiology, so I wasn't a doctor technically, but
Speaker 1: I was working in medicine and you know, as a
Speaker 1: p A. And then I went back to medical school.
Speaker 1: And the whole reason I went back to medical school
Speaker 1: was because I got fascinated by these connections between diet
Speaker 1: and health. I just was like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: this is a big lever. Of course, stress and family
Speaker 1: and community and environmental talkins, but diet is the lever
Speaker 1: that I wanted to get interested in. So I always
Speaker 1: knew that in my work I was gonna be kind
Speaker 1: of drilling down these ideas. I obviously haven't been thinking
Speaker 1: about a carnivore approach for you know, since I was
Speaker 1: a p A. But that was the reason I went
Speaker 1: back to medical school was to think, like, how is
Speaker 1: this connected? The carnival Code is not your first book.
Speaker 1: It's my first book. It is your first book. So
Speaker 1: you're saying, so you're you're working on a cookbook. Okay,
Speaker 1: but that's not gonna happen yet. That's next year. Got you?
Speaker 1: So the Carnivore Code, Paul Saladino, it's out now, soon
Speaker 1: out now? And then how do people go find you online?
Speaker 1: The best place to find me is all of my
Speaker 1: stuff on my podcast is at Heart and Soil Supplements
Speaker 1: dot com. And what about when you're hanging out on
Speaker 1: so do you do stuff on social media? At carnivore
Speaker 1: M d oh, that's good, like that sel that's real
Speaker 1: good at carnivore MD. Carnivore M d dude, that's a
Speaker 1: great idea, man. Animal based medicine. You know people think
Speaker 1: about plant based. We're doing animal based medicine. That's a
Speaker 1: great handle. Thanks gratulation. Doctor was taken. So I got
Speaker 1: meat doctor. Girls are like, can I call you doctor meat?
Speaker 1: So I was like, no, I don't think that's a
Speaker 1: good one. Doctor Meat was the other choice between Dr
Speaker 1: Meat dot com. Alright, so check out the book. I
Speaker 1: mean we only just touched on like a smidge what's
Speaker 1: in the book. So check out the book The Carnivore
Speaker 1: Code Paul Saladino, Dr Paul, and it's out. Now. You
Speaker 1: look real good in your author photo. I mean that's
Speaker 1: my Do you look at him? Dad? You look like
Speaker 1: a mean lawyer. You look like a mean lawyer that's
Speaker 1: going to get you out of jail. Driving a car
Speaker 1: real fast and pull out a nine mill and oh yeah?
Speaker 1: Are you looks like a dude from the Fast and
Speaker 1: Furious out there? Man, that's a better way to I
Speaker 1: wish my editor told me that. Man, you're too serious
Speaker 1: in this photo. Oh no, you just look like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you look like you're gonna think being an espionage thriller.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was trying to be a little James Bond.
Speaker 1: Here we're up again, some serious stuff here, you know
Speaker 1: you guys, Yeah, do not joke. We're talking about human Hell,
Speaker 1: we're talking yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm putting a suit on. Man.
Speaker 1: I smile a lot more than that picture makes me. Actually,
Speaker 1: I know that I think the putting the picture demands
Speaker 1: some respect. Man. All right, thank you very much for
Speaker 1: coming on my pleasure. It's pleasure and privilege. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go home and just drink animal fat, not fry anything,
Speaker 1: drink it cold. Well, you could just eat your animal fat,
Speaker 1: your animal I'm gonna experiment this was this is it
Speaker 1: gonna change what's for dinner tonight? M M. I made
Speaker 1: the mistake of not uh no, no, because no, because
Speaker 1: we had fish cakes last night, and we had so
Speaker 1: many suckers that we now have a giant bowl of
Speaker 1: fish cake. So we're having exactly what we had last
Speaker 1: night tonight. I don't want to waste I'd rather be
Speaker 1: unhealthy then waste suckers. Hear that. But after the next night,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell everybody kids making misteake tonight. Raw you
Speaker 1: guys get a buzz buzz. Oh yeah, I'm flying high man,
Speaker 1: all hopped up on liver. I can't tell the creeper
Speaker 1: that you gave me. Yeah he threw u um, he
Speaker 1: threw some of that horse tranquilizer in the yond. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, man, Thanks Paul, Thanks guys. One