WEBVTT - What causes rigor mortis?

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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<v Speaker 1>It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know

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<v Speaker 1>from how Stuff Works dot Com. Join Josh and Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>the guys who bring you Stuff you Should Know, as

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<v Speaker 1>they take a trip around the world to help you

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<v Speaker 1>get smarter in a topsy turv economy. Check out the

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<v Speaker 1>all new super Stuffed Guide to the Economy from house

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot Com, available now exclusively on iTunes. Hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to our podcast. We call it Stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>Should Know with your host Josh Clark and Charles W. Bryant.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Josh Clark. We were told to call it stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you should Know. Yeah, what did you think about that opening?

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<v Speaker 1>That was good? I still have to keep China, Okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll try it next time. A hundred plus episodes in,

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<v Speaker 1>we're still working out the first twenty seves, still working

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<v Speaker 1>out the kinks. And it's just not not just the

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<v Speaker 1>first twenty seconds, Chuck, You're right, I mean from beginning

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<v Speaker 1>to end, it's her key and Jerky, the whole she bang.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a it's evolving, Josh, So Chuck, I'll tell you

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<v Speaker 1>who wasn't evolving for about seventeen hours. Back in May

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<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and eight, you want to hear about

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<v Speaker 1>a woman named Val Thomas, and that was awesome by

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<v Speaker 1>the way that set up, Thank you. Val was a

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<v Speaker 1>fifty nine year old uh West Virginia woman, and in

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<v Speaker 1>May of two thousand and eight, she died. Died, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen hours, no brain activity, her heart was stopped. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>They had her own ventilator. Even during this time she

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<v Speaker 1>was dead. Um. And worst of all, rigor mortis set

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<v Speaker 1>in right right, which is a surefire sign I would

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<v Speaker 1>think that you're dead. Yeah, because it's not even like

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<v Speaker 1>part of the process of death. It's you've been dead

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<v Speaker 1>for several hours now, and here's this new process that

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<v Speaker 1>happens to a corpse. The weird thing is, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this is not wouldn't necessarily be significant under any other circumstances,

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<v Speaker 1>but this because we all go through rigor mortists. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But Val Thomas woke up, she came back. You're it

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<v Speaker 1>and I am not kidding. After after rigor mortis set

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<v Speaker 1>in and everything, she's dead for seventeen hours, she woke up,

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<v Speaker 1>started talking and she popped the breath mant and cracked

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<v Speaker 1>your knuckles. I suppose, yeah, And I was wondering what

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<v Speaker 1>would it feel like, you know, what would your muscles

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<v Speaker 1>feel like after after rigor mortis set in. I can't

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<v Speaker 1>imagine it feel very good. You probably feel really sore, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I would imagine so, because I mean, what is rigor

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<v Speaker 1>mortis except for like a contraction of the muscles? Right? Well?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it? It is? Chuck, let's talk about rigor mortis today?

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<v Speaker 1>You want to? And that's the rigor mortis set up.

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<v Speaker 1>You have it very nice. Chuck and I have had

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<v Speaker 1>fun all afternoon sending each other gross pictures of corpses

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<v Speaker 1>in rigor mortis. Stiff's exactly, and that's where the term

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<v Speaker 1>comes from. Have you ever heard of that book Stiff

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<v Speaker 1>by Mary Roach? I think so? Is that the pictures

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<v Speaker 1>of dead people? No? No, no, no, no. Um. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a it's a book about what happens to the body

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<v Speaker 1>afterwards and basically what it's like to be a cadaver,

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<v Speaker 1>all the uses for cadavers. I was, I haven't read it.

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<v Speaker 1>I was reading the introduction today and it was all

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<v Speaker 1>listening to the thrash metal band rigor Mortis. Yeah, were

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<v Speaker 1>you listening to him? I wasn't but I was surprised

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<v Speaker 1>they were able to get the domain name. It seems,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, like some sort of mortuary where they've

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<v Speaker 1>been around for a while. They released their debut album

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<v Speaker 1>in yeah, so I mean they were probably on top

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<v Speaker 1>of it back in the nineties. But I was listening

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<v Speaker 1>to him on last FM and I was like, Rigor

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<v Speaker 1>Mortis isn't as good as I remembered. So I went

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<v Speaker 1>over to the Children of Bodom channel and they were

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<v Speaker 1>all right, you ever heard of them? They're pretty serious.

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<v Speaker 1>You check them out. Um. But anyway, so, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>was prepping for this podcast reading Stiff and um miss

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<v Speaker 1>roach mentions that she was talking about all the ways

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<v Speaker 1>could ever have been used to help you know, further humanity,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of them was um. There was this French

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<v Speaker 1>scientist back in the late nineteenth century who was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to find out whether or not the Shroud of Turin

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<v Speaker 1>was real or not, and he actually got his hands

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<v Speaker 1>on cadavers and he was the first one to estay

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<v Speaker 1>ablished that Christ could not have been crucified through his

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<v Speaker 1>palms because this guy determined that that would only hold

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<v Speaker 1>about a ninety pound man or body to a crucifix,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know how we found out by nailing cadaverage

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<v Speaker 1>to a crucifix, so it was through the wrist is

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<v Speaker 1>the rist Apparently there's like some joint. I can't remember

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<v Speaker 1>what it's called, but um, what I think the place

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<v Speaker 1>where you're to be a fibula. Oh, I hope that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want viewer or listener mail. Is it tivy

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<v Speaker 1>and fibula? I doubt it? Well? Humorous, humorous and um,

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<v Speaker 1>well anyway, we can't put it in there. Well anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>I am. I assume going to get some listener mail

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<v Speaker 1>for that one. But the two bones where they come

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<v Speaker 1>together at your wrist um to connect to your meditarsal

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<v Speaker 1>or metacarpal metacarpal because it's carpal tunnel syndrome anyway, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a hole there that you could drive a

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<v Speaker 1>stake through and it will hold up a substantial adult

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<v Speaker 1>sized male. Interesting, But this guy, this French physician, figured

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<v Speaker 1>it out by nailing cadavers to across. And I guess

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<v Speaker 1>the other option was that Jesus was a ninety pound weakling,

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<v Speaker 1>which doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't imagine they were all that well nourished back then. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but ninety pounds, come on, yeah, it is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>tiny slight, so could avers Yes, rigor mortis, yes, rigor

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<v Speaker 1>mortis josh. Uh what does it mean Latin? Well, Josh

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<v Speaker 1>is not so important what it stands for in Latin,

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<v Speaker 1>because we know Latin is a dead language. Latin is

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<v Speaker 1>suffering from rigor mortis. What is important is how it works,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's what we're here to educate folks on. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to talk about that or you want me to? Uh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll we'll both get into it. One thing that was

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<v Speaker 1>interesting is that, uh, three hours or so after a

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<v Speaker 1>human or animal dies, it starts to happen, and then

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<v Speaker 1>it happens from head to toe, Yeah, which I thought

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<v Speaker 1>was pretty interesting. Whose law is that? That would be

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<v Speaker 1>Euston and he discovered the Frenchman way back in Eve.

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<v Speaker 1>But the reason why it's it starts from head to toe, basically,

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<v Speaker 1>they think, is because, um, you have smaller um or

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<v Speaker 1>delicate muscle tissue around the face. So usually it's the

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<v Speaker 1>eyes and the mouth um that require very delicate, precise

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<v Speaker 1>movements that rigger up first, which is why every movie

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<v Speaker 1>in history, every death scene with the guy's eyes wide open.

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<v Speaker 1>A friend will come by and gently shut them, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>put a couple of half dollars over him. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>if it was a Western So um okay, So rigor

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<v Speaker 1>mortis chuck is nothing but the stiffening of the muscles, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Um okay, let's talk physiology here for a second, buddy.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have two different kinds of muscle fibers. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>We've got skeletal muscle, skeletal muscles, and we have um,

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<v Speaker 1>smooth muscle tissue. Smooth muscles. Issue is like your heart.

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<v Speaker 1>It's what your heart's made out this microscopic dude, Sure

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<v Speaker 1>it is. And then when you bundle them together, you

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<v Speaker 1>have you know, a muscle. What we see is a muscle, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, they're all made up of individual fibers, um.

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<v Speaker 1>And all of these are connected or or commanded by neurons. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have motor neurons that commands skeletal muscles, and

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<v Speaker 1>you have fast twitch muscles, which are the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>that require precise movements, So you're fast twitch neurons are

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<v Speaker 1>the ones controlling like your eye movement, your tongue, that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. And then you have kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>big o fish neurons of of the physiology world. Those

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<v Speaker 1>are slow twitch neurons. That was a good oath imitation,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, Thank you very much. Video chuck. Yeah, okay, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, when when the brain says, hey, man, raise

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<v Speaker 1>your left arm, it transmits an electrical impulse to the

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<v Speaker 1>neuron which says, okay, we gotta get this going. Why

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<v Speaker 1>happens is when when this transmission takes place, Um, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a biochemical process that happens. You've got these calcium ions, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and they exist outside of the cell, but they like

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<v Speaker 1>to go into the cell whenever they get a chance, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So they'll go into the cells that make up our

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<v Speaker 1>muscle tissue and they kind of throw everything off balance.

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<v Speaker 1>What what they allow to happen that these two proteins

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<v Speaker 1>to connect. And we have two different kinds of skeletal

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<v Speaker 1>muscle fibers. I know what they're called. Let's hear it.

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<v Speaker 1>Myosin and actin. Okay, and myosin makes up thick filament fibers, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and then actin makes up thin filament fibers. And when

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<v Speaker 1>you connect the two, When myosin and actin connect to

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<v Speaker 1>one another, their molecules right, Um, then you have a contraction.

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<v Speaker 1>So calcium ions allow myosin and actin to connect, which

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<v Speaker 1>makes your muscle contract. So to get a muscle to relax,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to uncouple myosin and actin and through um

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<v Speaker 1>through oxygen through aerobic an aerobic process. We when we

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<v Speaker 1>breathe in oxygen, some of it goes to produce the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff called a dinoscene triphosphate, and that stuff actually decouples

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<v Speaker 1>myos and in acting causing the muscles to relax. When

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<v Speaker 1>we're dead, though, we have no two problems. Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>number one, we're not breathing anymore, so there's no oxygen,

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<v Speaker 1>which means we're not producing a t P any longer.

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<v Speaker 1>But secondly, the apparently those calcium ions their natural state

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to get into the cell, so there's a

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<v Speaker 1>build of calcium ions, which means your muscles all start

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<v Speaker 1>to contract. Hence rigor mortis. There you have it. That's it,

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<v Speaker 1>Dr Clark, thank you, That is not it, though, Josh, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not okay, I stand corrected. Well, what's important about

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<v Speaker 1>rigor mortis is what we should talk about next. And

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<v Speaker 1>we know how it happens, and you can become stiff,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's it's you know, funny to play with a

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<v Speaker 1>stiff dead body, put them in like still physicians. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a good time. But it can actually be used at

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<v Speaker 1>things like crime scenes. Oh it can, yes, oh yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>do we need to talk about that? Well? Yeah, Well

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<v Speaker 1>how about this. You said that it sets in after

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<v Speaker 1>three hours? Yes, well not always? How well, okay, about

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<v Speaker 1>how long does it last? Uh? Well, at last up

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<v Speaker 1>to eighteen hours? Twelve eighteen hours and then it fades

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<v Speaker 1>away again. I've heard up the thirty six seventy two.

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<v Speaker 1>Just do inside research on this. It seems like nobody

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<v Speaker 1>can say definitively how long it lasts. Well, it depends

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<v Speaker 1>on a lot of things. Okay, well what do they

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<v Speaker 1>depend on? Uh well, temperature is one obvious thing. Temperature,

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<v Speaker 1>Josh is one thing, right, It's pretty obvious. Uh. If

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<v Speaker 1>it's warmer, it'll speed up Riga mortis, and it will

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<v Speaker 1>also go uh at a at a slower pace or

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, faster pace. Right, So it sets in faster,

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<v Speaker 1>but it lasts a shorter amount of time, right, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Because basically it creates a good environment for bacteria for

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<v Speaker 1>the decay process, which starts after rigor mortis, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately that's what gets rid of rigor mortis right. This

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<v Speaker 1>process called autolysis, and that is basically where the cells

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<v Speaker 1>kill themselves. The cells basically break down the cellular structure,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is the case for the cells that make

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<v Speaker 1>up muscle tissue. Right. So then as these cells decomposed,

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<v Speaker 1>the muscles can no longer hold an erection and you're

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<v Speaker 1>no longer um in a state of rigor mortis. Very nice, John,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, I'm proud of you. Uh, when it's cold,

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<v Speaker 1>on the other flip side of the coin, it'll slow

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<v Speaker 1>the process down. So if you die outside in the

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<v Speaker 1>freezing cold, like Jack Nicholson in the Shining Love that

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<v Speaker 1>he was the stuff, he probably wasn't just frozen in

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<v Speaker 1>that scene. He probably riga mortis probably and it was

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<v Speaker 1>frozen at the same and it would have lasted a

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<v Speaker 1>long time. I've I've heard that it can last up

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<v Speaker 1>to like twenty eight days under the right conditions if

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<v Speaker 1>you're freezing out there for sure. Uh So physical exertion

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<v Speaker 1>just prior to death, that's another thing that can affect

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<v Speaker 1>because your muscles are already cant acted, or if you're

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<v Speaker 1>drowning or something. You're already um, you're you're already starved

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.000
<v Speaker 1>of oxygen, so you're not producing a t P anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>so it consider immediately right, which is called the cadaveric spasm. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>I actually saw a beaver undergo a cadaveric spasm. Woods. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was in Tennessee, I saw a beaver get

0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.720
<v Speaker 1>hit by a car and it went and um just

0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.120
<v Speaker 1>immediately died because like the next day I was driving

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:28.720
<v Speaker 1>down the same stretch abroad and the beaver is in

0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.880
<v Speaker 1>the same position making the same face that it was

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>the moment it died. It was crazy. I saw something

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 1>you undergo a cadaveric spasm. Wow. So uh, you know,

0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 1>police are investigating a crime scene and someone is still

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, like got their finch clifs clinched on their

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.840
<v Speaker 1>purse or something that then that means they might have

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.200
<v Speaker 1>died while in a struggle against an attacker. So that

0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 1>can that can help out the cops. Uh. And then

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.160
<v Speaker 1>fat distribution is another one. Uh. Fat as an insulator,

0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.680
<v Speaker 1>as we both know, because we're very warm guys. So

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 1>what would that mean? Would I would I? Would you?

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 1>And I undergo rigor mortis more quickly or less quickly,

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>more slowly, more fat. And then age is another thing.

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.000
<v Speaker 1>If you have low muscle mass, like if you're a

0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>little kid, if you're really old, um, I guess I

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 1>should say elderly rigorist, that will happen a lot faster too.

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.440
<v Speaker 1>So those are some things that can affect that, the

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 1>speed of the onset and the pace. But because of

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.959
<v Speaker 1>that all those different um uh circumstances surrounding rigor mortis

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 1>and prolonging it or you know, shortening it, it's not

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.439
<v Speaker 1>quite that precise, right, So there's a bunch of other

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 1>stuff that that forensic crime scene investigators use or prefer

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 1>to use over rigor mortis to establish time with death, correct. Yeah,

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>And it's not just time of death too. You can

0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 1>also tell if a body has been moved postmortem, which

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.319
<v Speaker 1>is usually a big clue towards finding out kind of

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>there was foul play probably or if there were teenagers

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.439
<v Speaker 1>around afterward. Yeah, I guess, so playing with the body.

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Are you talking about liver mortists? That's one thing. Yeah,

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that's a good one. I like that one. Yeah. Liver

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 1>mortis is when um all the blood cells basically and

0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 1>all the blood go to the place where it's lowest.

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So like, if you're lying on your back, the blood's

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.200
<v Speaker 1>gonna pull in your back, or if you're if you're

0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 1>on your side and your face is faced down on

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the concrete, your face is going to be flesh with

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 1>blood exactly. It was pretty gross, also known as lividity, exactly.

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>And there's another one too, right, Uh, there is you're

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.920
<v Speaker 1>talk about algor al gore mortis. Algor mortis. Yeah, it

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.400
<v Speaker 1>has to do with power point presentations, right. Um. Actually,

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 1>that's just the cooling off of the body until it

0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 1>matches the room temperature, right, And that happens at a

0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>predictable rate too, right, it's like one and a half

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 1>to two degrees ferret hype per hour. So that's a

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 1>pretty good way of calculating time of death usually unless

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the person had a fever. True, Yeah, because you're generally

0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.600
<v Speaker 1>assuming that the that the the person is starting out

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>at point six and I mean if they were sick

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>and they had a fever, that's going to set it

0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>off by a couple of hours, right. I think the

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.440
<v Speaker 1>official body temperature changed though, didn't it, did it? I'm

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 1>pretty sure I read that a few years ago. It

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.960
<v Speaker 1>changed by a point oh one degree or something to

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 1>look at it and we will determine this and follow

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 1>up on that. Son. Another thing the cops can do

0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>is look at the contents of your stomach, just like

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>they did in Jaws when they cut the shark open

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 1>or in Um seven. How do they do that in seven?

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 1>The gluttony guy, right, Gary, Uh? And that can obviously

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.000
<v Speaker 1>you can see how much your food is digested the

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 1>last thing you ate, and that can gauge you know,

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 1>how long you've been dead. And then my favorite insect insects. Yeah,

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.720
<v Speaker 1>I think as we all know, uh, dead things uh

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 1>tend to attract flies and other insects, and that is

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 1>because they are feeding on your fluids. They're not just

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.760
<v Speaker 1>there because of the smell. And boy, this is interesting.

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>They're feeding on your fluids. Josh. Well, what's fascinating is

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>is somebody who's lover enough to figure out, Hey, we

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>know so much about like in in the US, the

0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.600
<v Speaker 1>blue bottle fly and every stage of its development and

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>it develops so quickly and it's it's lifespan happens over

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 1>such a short period of time. We can walk up

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 1>and say, oh, there's maggots and they're blue bottlefly maggots,

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>So we know that this body is only X number

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>of hours dead um or if they've hitting the hit

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.080
<v Speaker 1>the pupa stage or the adult stage, you know. Um,

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>we can use these stages of these flies and maggots

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 1>burrowing around in somebody's dead corpse to determine how long

0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 1>ago they died. That fascinates me. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah,

0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>I think we should talk about body farms sometime soon.

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I think we do a podcast on body farms. Should

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>and then forensic pathology period. I know John Flood a

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 1>good article on that. Let's do it. We'll do a

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>whole suite of just just you know, corpse stuff. Sweet

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 1>sounds good. All right, so, Chuck, I think with that promise,

0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>we've pretty much reached the end of briger Mortis. Right. Well,

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>let's hope not auto lie. This is it starting to

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 1>say that we're starting to decompose. I'm a little Jamie.

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I can tell you that I can't agree with that.

0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 1>So does that mean that it's a listener mail time?

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>I believe. So let's do listener mail then, And I

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.479
<v Speaker 1>think all of you friends out there listening should make

0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:19.399
<v Speaker 1>note we plugged nothing today Yeah, that's right. Producer Jerry's

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 1>gave us the thumbs up. Baby. In fact, we refuse

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>to plug anything because we don't want you to read

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>our blog or to buy our spoken word eltments. Reverse

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.960
<v Speaker 1>psychology to refuse to plug. Very nice, the anti plug.

0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 1>So it's listener mail time. It is so Josh. This

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.000
<v Speaker 1>comes to us from David in Atlanta right here. Hey,

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why Atlanta and David is commenting on

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 1>our PUNC podcast. Wait wait, wait, Chuch, you can't just

0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 1>say it like that. I don't know what you're talking about.

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm talking about. Okay, wait, Chuck, We're

0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 1>not proceeding until you say it correctly. Let me just

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.560
<v Speaker 1>let me read. Um. This is from David. I was

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 1>listening to your podcast about the punts scheme Happy, and

0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.399
<v Speaker 1>it reminded me of a company quote unquote that I

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.880
<v Speaker 1>did some work for a few years back in Atlanta. Uh.

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>He names a company, but I won't name it. Uh.

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 1>They were running a real estate based ponce scheme and

0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>they hired his company to come in and work on

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 1>their computers like an I T deal. And he said

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>he knew something fishy was going on. He saw a

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.200
<v Speaker 1>few red flags in just a couple of days that

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>he was there. Uh, there was a high level of

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.439
<v Speaker 1>security for a small company. The owner of the company

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.919
<v Speaker 1>had a personal bodyguard and there were several security guards

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.199
<v Speaker 1>in the little, tiny office. Second, the pitch that the

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 1>sales staff were giving promise typical ponce Ponts scheme, results,

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.439
<v Speaker 1>high return, that kind of thing. And this is to

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>me the big red flag is he said that they

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>would not let anyone from Georgia invest in their company.

0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 1>You're based out of Atlanta, and they wouldn't let anyone

0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.600
<v Speaker 1>in Georgia investment you count. So he suspected this is

0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 1>a big cover up in a big scheme, and it

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>turns out that it was. It only lasted about a month.

0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 1>And you heard that they had been operating before that though,

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.119
<v Speaker 1>clearly because they built people out of about seventy million.

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 1>But holy cow, and his company did not even get paid.

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 1>And uh, that's see David's story. Well thanks a lot, David,

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.560
<v Speaker 1>first account, hope, But things have come around again since

0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 1>then for your company. Um, if you have any fascinating

0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 1>stories about Ponzi schemes or pyramid schemes or any kind

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.439
<v Speaker 1>of scheme whatsoever, or you just want to say, what up,

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 1>It's a chuck and I chucking me Uh. You can

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.679
<v Speaker 1>send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:40.119
<v Speaker 1>works dot com. For more on this and thousands of

0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.199
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0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:44.879
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0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.119
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0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.600
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0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:54.120
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