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LinkedIn ads allows you to focus 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: on getting your B to B message to the right people. 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: in the world. Yes, yes it does. Get started today 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: and see why LinkedIn is the place to be to be. 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: We'll even give you a one hundred dollars credit on 17 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn dot com slash results 18 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn dot com slash results. 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: Terms and conditions apply. 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Lifestyle expert Michelle Park, Hi, Michelle, 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: please welcome back, Mumfrey and health and beauty pro Michelle 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: Park He's welcome, lifestyle expert friend of the show, Michelle Park, 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to She Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. 61 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: I had left my decade long political career in DC 62 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: after having my first two kids during the Trump presidency, 63 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: and felt burnt out after having my third child, spending 64 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: a year in lockdown with my family, and another tough 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: and exhausting election. I began to find solace in the 66 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: stories of women who had made these big career decisions 67 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: and then found success and happiness in their change. I 68 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: began to realize that so many women had pivoted due 69 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: to personal reasons, and they still found success through non 70 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: traditional paths. This new show celebrates these stories, and I'm 71 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: so excited to bring them to you with She Pivots. 72 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: Michelle Park is one of the more fabulous women you 73 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: might encounter. She is an Emmy Award winning TV host 74 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: who has appeared on programs as a lifestyle reporter including 75 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: Good Morning America, The Steve Harvey Show, The Drew Barrymore Show, 76 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: The Food Network, and more. But like so many moms, 77 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: the pandemic forced her to pause, but it also led 78 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: to opportunities she never would have thought becoming a TikTok 79 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: mom influencer. So my name is Michelle Park, and what 80 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: do I do. I thought I was going to be 81 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: a lawyer. I actually thought I was going to be 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: a lawyer my entire life, Like truly, I went to 83 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: college thinking I was going to be a lawyer. I 84 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: was pre law I had to offer to be a 85 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: paralegal at a very fancy New York City law firm 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: when I graduated, and I remember I met one of 87 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: the girls that was doing the job that I would 88 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,559 Speaker 1: be doing, and she was like, don't take this job. 89 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: This is the worst job in the world. And I 90 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: was like, oh, so it just kind of threw everything off. 91 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: But to answer your question in a very long way, 92 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: I thought I was going to be a lawyer. So 93 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: she encountered her first pivot. So I went to Stanford 94 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: and Juju Chang, who also went to Stanford, who was 95 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: also Korean American, was on campus doing some sort of talk. 96 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: I see her and I start kind of like stalking 97 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: her a little bit, like I was like kind of 98 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: following her around, but like not saying hi, because I 99 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: was awkward and nervous, and I feel like in my 100 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: memory She said hi to me first, and then I 101 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, you're Juju Chang, Like I 102 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: love you, you are just you, the shining star of 103 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: Koreean Americans who graduated from Stanford whatever. And she's like, 104 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: send me a resume. I'll get you a job. And 105 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: I distinctly remember saying to her, okay, Jiuju Chang, you 106 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: get me a job, Like come on, really? I literally 107 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: I was like, she asked me for a resume, it's 108 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: probably going to go to her spam, but whatever. And 109 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: then she literally got me a job at ABC News. 110 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: So was that the first job in television with her 111 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: at ABC News? Yep? And I was a oh, what 112 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: did they call it, like production secretary or something. I 113 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: was like the lowest rung on the totem pole. But yeah, 114 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: I did that for three months. I got a job 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: offer from KMBC in LA to come be an editorial assistant, 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: and Juju was like, go, like, go do the local 117 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: news thing. It's how you're going to move up quickly. 118 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: So I left and I went to LA, still thinking 119 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: she would be behind the camera. Michelle moved to LA. 120 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: At that time, I actually thought I was going to 121 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: be an investigative producer. I wanted to be behind the 122 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: camera the whole time. I really thought that it was 123 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: like cool to get to travel and tell these stories 124 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: and unearth these gnarly different stories that existed in the world. 125 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: But her plan flew out the window when she got 126 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: a call from a friend who told her to come 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: in for a camera test, and after the head of 128 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the network saw her work, they made her an offer, 129 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: so she moved from behind the camera to in front, 130 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: all while juggling crazy hours. I shifted my schedule at 131 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: NBC to like two am to ten am on the weekends. 132 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: She made it to the big screen on her local 133 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: TV station, but she had her eyes set on New 134 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: York One. That was her goal. My goal was to 135 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: make it to New York one. So I applied to 136 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: New York one every month. They kept telling me to 137 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: stop sending me sending their stuff, like sending my stuff 138 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: to them. But she sent me this email and she 139 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: was like, we're getting our stuff. We're looking for somebody 140 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: with live news experience. You can stop sending it. And 141 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: so I was like, well, I have you, Like what 142 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: specifically do you mean? And then I just I faked it. 143 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: Let's just put it out there. Probably I faked all 144 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: the live shots on my tape. When I say I 145 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: faked it, I mean like she wanted live shots. I 146 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: literally hired a cameraman to make it look like I 147 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: was shooting live shots. And I went around LA and 148 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: was like, we're here outside of this car accident that 149 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: just happened, and what we're hearing from the authorities is 150 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. Right, like that's what I was doing. 151 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: And I put together this reel and then they were like, 152 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: they called me, They said, can you come in for 153 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: an interview tomorrow. She had no plans to be in 154 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: New York City at the time, but she booked herself 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: a ticket and got herself to New York One. And 156 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: I was like, funny, you say that, I'm going to 157 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: be in New York total. I booked a ticket, I 158 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: flew to New York. I remember getting my hair blown 159 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: out drybar didn't exist at the time, at like some 160 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: random salon, And I walked into New York one and 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: I did this interview and then I got the job. No, 162 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: So I started out at New York One as a 163 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: just like a general assignment reporter kind of role. I 164 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: was freelance at first, and then they brought me on 165 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: full time to be an anchor reporter. So then I 166 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: started anchoring during the week a couple of days and 167 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: then reporting, and then I think about two years and 168 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: they moved me over to like covering fashion and food, 169 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: so I got to do that. I mean, I really 170 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: credit New York One with just like me my growth 171 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: as a journalist on television, So they gave me a 172 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: lot of opportunities to do things here and there. But 173 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: I do think that once I had done all the 174 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: New York stuff, I wanted to get out of New York. 175 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: Like I really wanted to view what was going on 176 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: in the country as a whole versus what these like 177 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: small things that are that are happening in New York. 178 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: So then I shifted out. I actually went to work 179 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: in sports news for a while, so I went to MSG. 180 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: But I remember thinking to myself, I would really love 181 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: to cover this story about like this Asian American issue, 182 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: and I can't because it's not very important to New York. 183 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: It's just very important to Asian Americans across the country. 184 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: So that was really where I was coming from. Looking 185 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: back at her goals from when she was behind the camera. 186 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: Michelle wanted to dig her teeth into more substantial, hard 187 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: hitting stories, something that spoke to her as a Korean 188 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: American woman. So she took a break and thought about 189 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: her next move. Yeah, and then I took a little break. 190 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: I ended up on the Steve Harvey Show as his 191 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: lifestyle expert for a couple of seasons, and then I 192 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: did a bunge of day time. I did the Harry 193 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: Conny Show, I did GMA, I did Tamern Hall, and 194 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: then now I did the Drew Barrymore Show. And I realized, 195 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: like a couple years ago that I really did want 196 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: to get back into doing stories versus doing like this 197 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: kind of like show and tell, fun lifestyle and stuff. 198 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: So I went to NBCX, which is where I am currently, 199 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: and I contribute stories for them about like national issues, 200 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: which is pretty much exactly what I wanted to do. 201 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: So how did your goals shift as you were moving 202 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: through this? I mean, you hadn't thought that you were 203 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: going to be a reporter on air, you know, as 204 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: you were growing up. So did your goals shift? Like 205 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: did you think to yourself, I want to be in 206 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: five years I want to be X kind of reporter. 207 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: I want to be on X kind of coverage. Did 208 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: they shift as you went along? I think they shifted 209 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: like in the moment, so as things were happening, I 210 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: just kind of went with the flow, and then when 211 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: I felt like something wasn't working for me, I would 212 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: just pivot. I think my goal overall was, I'm an 213 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: Asian American woman. I want to be somebody who has 214 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: some sort of autonomy in media, who can tell the 215 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,599 Speaker 1: stories that need to be told. It didn't matter to 216 00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: me if I was in front of the camera, behind 217 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: the camp. It didn't matter to me if it was 218 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: going to be frankly, if it was going to be 219 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: like magazine or television. Just happened to be television for me. 220 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: But it was just more about, like, let me tell 221 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: the stories of my community. Yeah. I feel like the 222 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: coverage for Asian American women in particular has probably changed 223 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: over the trajectory of your career. How has it changed, 224 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, the stories that you've pitched and what's landed. 225 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: You know, when I first started on the industry, it 226 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: was still you know, Connie Chung was the archetype and 227 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: it was still like I would be on the street 228 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: covering real stories and people would walk by and be like, hey, 229 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: Connie Chung, and I'm like, I'm not Connie Chung. But 230 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: I think now we're at a place where like we 231 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: are viewed as a little bit more three dimensional, not 232 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: just as Asian American women, but I think as Asian 233 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Americans in general, there are more dimensions to us. And 234 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: this whole model minority myth where Asian Americans were always 235 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: viewed as these people who were very silent and just 236 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: kind of like took it and worked hard, is something 237 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: that I've always viewed as incredibly damaging, and I think, 238 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: especially with what's happened during the pandemic, we're starting to 239 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: see a little bit of a different narrative come out. 240 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: Not only is Michelle glad to see a change in 241 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: the narratives for Asian American women, She's been a part 242 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: of that narrative shift, using her own platforms to uplift 243 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: her personal experiences and the experiences of others. Thankfully, the 244 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,119 Speaker 1: media world has really kind of helped uplift different minorities, 245 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: not just Asian Americans, and give them a little bit 246 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: more of a platform to talk about the issues that 247 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: matter to us or that are just like unique to us. 248 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: Do you feel like there's a there's a pathway of 249 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: the stories where you can track like what stories you 250 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: pitched and what landed that tracks like the national shift 251 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: in narrative. I don't think I was even able to 252 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: pitch those stories in the beginning, to be honest, But 253 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: with the rise in AAPI hate and the awareness around it, 254 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: she was able to cover more stories about the Asian 255 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: American experience. Last year, Michelle aired a story on NBCX 256 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: after the tragic shooting of six Asian women and three 257 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: others in Atlanta. Eight people are dead, six of them 258 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: Asian women, and while there were headlines and news reports 259 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: and social media, but he does claim that it was 260 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: not racially motivated. How the story was told As an 261 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: example of how it can feel to be Asian in America, 262 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Jamie moy says, it's a feeling of being unseen and unheard. 263 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: They cared more about what he said and what he said, 264 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: he did it, why he did it, instead of who 265 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: died and who lost their lives and who lost their 266 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: mother or or wife. And they gave me ten minutes 267 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: to tell the stories of five or six different Asian 268 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: Americans from across the country. We just let them tell 269 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: their stories and to give them ten minutes on national television. 270 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: I don't think ever would have happened when I entered 271 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: this industry. I can only imagine. And we'd actual talked 272 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: about this on your podcast, Moms Got This. How having 273 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: kids impacted your career? Yeah quite a bit. So before 274 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: I had my kids, I was traveling a lot and 275 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: I was doing I was also doing ground media tours. 276 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: So I was like going from Fox station to Fox 277 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: station to Fox station in like thirty five markets or 278 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: like CBS station whatever, and Steve was taping in Chicago, 279 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: so I was flying to Chicago. Wait, I actually don't 280 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: know that everyone knows what a ground media tour is 281 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: and it's wild. Oh yeah, it's a lot of work 282 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: because what it is because like there is some satellite 283 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: media tours where you'sent in a room and you like 284 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: satellite into all the networks, But a ground media tour 285 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: means I am there in person. So I was like 286 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: like I would come from I would go from New 287 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: York to Chicago. I would go do Fox and I 288 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: would do ABC. Then I would get on a plane 289 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: and go to Colorado, and then I would do you 290 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: know the stations, and I would go to Arizona. I mean, 291 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: I never went home, and I had my kids, and 292 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: I had these dreams of going right back. It was 293 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: the peak of her career and was traveling from in 294 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: New York to LA to Chicago. Then all of a sudden, 295 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: she had this little baby who changed everything. Like I 296 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: was like I had my first daughter. I was like, 297 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm just you know, I'll take like a couple weeks 298 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: off and then I'll just go right back on the road. 299 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: And we booked my first segment with Steve when she 300 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: was twelve weeks old. When her daughter was just a 301 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: few months old, Michelle tried to go back to traveling 302 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: and in the studio, but handing off her daughter while 303 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: she filmed left her feeling uneasy. So she made the 304 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: decision to put everything on hold for a while because 305 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: I felt like, while I have these big dreams for 306 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: what I want to accomplish, I think being a mom 307 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: really changed me. So I put it on hold, like truly, 308 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: and I guess it's still kind of on hold because 309 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: I haven't fully come back. Well, you've come back in 310 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: a different way, yeah, And you started doing these lunchbox 311 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: videos on TikTok and with lessons attached to them or 312 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: stories attached to them. You must have been a relatively 313 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: early TikTok adopter, Like how did you get into it? So? 314 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: I do think during the pandemic I went into the 315 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: mom stuff hard because you of all this extra time 316 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: because you're not like traveling to the person and doing 317 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: the interview, and like suddenly the time I was working 318 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: was cut down by quite a bit. What was that 319 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: like for you? I mean everyone had, you know, when 320 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: we thought it was two weeks of a pandemic right 321 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: to hang out and came out with like games are 322 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: kids playing at home? But being a journalist at that point, 323 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: where did you think your career was going? It was 324 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: actually a very exciting time to be a journalist because 325 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: there was so much stuff to cover. However, I think 326 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: the point at which I kind of felt fatigued was 327 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: like four or five months in. We've now done zoom 328 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: interviews the entire time. I think that's why I said 329 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: to myself, maybe I could be a stay at home 330 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: mom because this is not fulfilling, like talking to people 331 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: over zoom trying to get good interview bites which I 332 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: personally feel like you can't really get a fantastic interview 333 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: unless you're in person. I kept thinking to myself, maybe 334 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: I can just set aside like five years to be 335 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: home and take my kids to soccer practice and like 336 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: be around and like do these things for them and 337 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: make my lunchboxes on TikTok, and that can be like 338 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: the thing that I do. 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Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations. 348 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: Good news AD free listening on Amazon Music is included 349 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: with your Prime membership. Ads shouldn't be the scariest thing 350 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: about True Crime. Just add to Amazon dot com slash 351 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: ad Free true Crime to catch up on the latest 352 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: episodes without the ads, and shows a free for punchbscribers. 353 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: Some shows me how that the combination of the Lockdown's 354 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: time off work and boaredom created the perfect environment for 355 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: TikTok to take off, and Michelle likes so many others 356 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: it started to make videos to fill the time. Through 357 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: it all, though, there's been TikTok providing moments of levity 358 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: and new dance crazes, interspersed with more serious commentary on 359 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: the issues that we face. I always knew strangers saw 360 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: me as Asian before they saw anything else. I often 361 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: still get asked where I'm from before people ask what 362 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: my name is. I've been feeling an immense amount of 363 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: mom guilt lately. I'm a newscaster and I'd had to 364 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: work super late, so my kids are long asleep by 365 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: the time I get home, and in the morning I'm 366 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: up taking calls and getting ready. So I started in 367 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: May of two thousand and twenty, so yes, in May 368 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, and my first TikTok was literally like 369 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: I was pointing at words and the board said this 370 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: is how you know you're too old for TikTok. I 371 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: started out doing mom hacks actually, and then when I 372 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: started making the lunch boxes, a one I had to 373 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: make lunch, so I was already doing the lone unch thing. 374 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: I enjoyed making the Bento box because I thought they 375 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: were cute. I like went crazy at the Japanese store 376 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: and bought all the Bento accessories because they're adorable, and like, 377 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is just what I wanted to be doing. 378 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: My kids are completely unimpressed by the way. They're just like, oh, 379 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: it's another bear sleeping under an egg blanket. Cool, like whatever. 380 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, do you know how long it took me 381 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: to make that eggplant? I? Cool? Did that egg blanket 382 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: for you? But anyway, so yeah, So I think that 383 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: what ended up happening was I started telling these stories 384 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: about my kids because I feel really strongly about certain things, 385 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: like I really feel like we should respect people's pronouns. 386 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: And I was seeing these videos on TikTok where people 387 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: were like, what the hell is with these pronouns or whatever, 388 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: and so I told this story. I took my daughter 389 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: to Starbucks where there's a trans barista who I've interact with, 390 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: but she's never met. And she saw her and she 391 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: said to me, She's like, Mom, is that a boy 392 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: or girl? And I was like, well, and then I 393 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: thought to myself, how do I answer? This spiraled in 394 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: my head and then I was like, you know, you 395 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: can ask like and she's like, how do you ask? 396 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: And I was like, if I were you, I would say, Hi, 397 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: I'm Michelle. My pronouns are? She her? What are your pronouns? 398 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: And she was like okay, So then she asked her. 399 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: I already know I'm going to get a bunch of 400 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: angry comments calling me a bad mom, but I'm telling 401 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: the story. Anyway. We were at Starbucks and there was 402 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: a trans woman barista. My daughter looked at me and said, Mama, 403 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: is that a he or she? And I initially considered 404 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: explaining what trans meant, but it seemed like a lot 405 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: for the middle of Starbucks, so instead, I said, why 406 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: don't we ask what their pronouns are? She has? How 407 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: so I said I would say, Hi, I'm Michelle, my 408 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: pronouns are? She her? What are your pronouns? And then 409 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: my daughter did the same. The barista like looked like 410 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: she was going to cry because she was like, I 411 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: don't think she's ever been asked that by anyone. Frankly, 412 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: we got our coffee for free that day, and it 413 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: was just like it was one of these moments that 414 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: I talked about and then like, I got insane amounts 415 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: of backlash, but I also got all these trans kids 416 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: in my dms just being like thank you, Like I've 417 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: watched your TikTok like fifty times. I feel so unseen, 418 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: I feel so unheard. The fact that you're teaching this 419 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: next generation these things means a lot. And I know 420 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: it's bizarre to say that I felt so fulfilled by 421 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: making this TikTok, but I truly did. I mean I 422 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: got hundreds and hundreds of dms from these kids. Being 423 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: in media for a long time, I'm sure you've experienced 424 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: your fear of negative comments, you know, people coming at you. 425 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: I've definitely gotten a lot of it. Do you feel 426 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: like the negative comments you got back from the Pronouns 427 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: video was different than what you'd seen from other things 428 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: you'd put out. Yeah, actually they were much They were 429 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: much more pointed at me being a bad mom and 430 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: threatening to take my kids, which is something that I 431 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: hadn't normally experience like you know, well, I think what 432 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: we do on TV is a little different. Like you're 433 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: you're still pretty political, so I think you must get 434 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: like a lot of vitriol. Like for me, I do lifestyle, 435 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: So the most I get is like thunder thighs, like 436 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: tell her to lose some weight, right, and I'm like, okay, whatever. 437 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: Like that kind of stuff like really kind of just 438 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 1: rolls off my back. But this was different because it 439 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: was like like people were accusing me of raising my 440 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: kids wrong and like threatening to take my kids away, 441 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: and that's just like a whole other level of Well, 442 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: what I thought was so interesting is that you wrote 443 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: an article after your first child was born that you 444 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: tried to be a mom Instagram. How did you phrase it? 445 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: A mom Instagram influencer failed. So when I was on 446 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: like maternity with my first one again, I was bored 447 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: and I needed to create an outlet. And I started 448 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: this Instagram for Madeline, my older daughter, where I was 449 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: just posting like cute pictures of her, and it started 450 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: taking off, like we got like ten thousand followers, but 451 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: so we started getting like like brands asking us and 452 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: then like that Instagram account at some point hit like 453 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: seventeen k and then I shut it down because I 454 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable putting my kids on mine anymore. So 455 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: I think my current approach to social media is like, 456 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: you can throw all the comments you want at me, 457 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: like whatever you say, I will probably be fine, but 458 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: I don't put my kids on there. Yeah, so you've 459 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: taken a slightly different approach. It's not featuring the kids 460 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: on your TikTok videos. You make the Bento boxes, you 461 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: make these incredible looking lunches, and then narrate what you 462 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: want to narrate. Do you think it maybe gives you 463 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: a little bit more control about like a different version 464 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: of a mom influencer. I think so. I think that 465 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: I'm definitely not your like typical mom influencer, because you know, 466 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: I tell a lot of stories about what they do, 467 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: and so I'm sure they're curious what my kids look like. 468 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: But I also, like strongly believe, at least for our family, 469 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: I think that my kids should be the ones to 470 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: make that decision when they decide that they want to 471 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: be on the Internet. And I don't want to be 472 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: the person to do that for them. It's just not 473 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 1: my place and so I'm just going to wait till 474 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: they're like old enough and then they can decide. Do 475 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: you think that experience of your twelve weeks or whatever 476 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: it was, of being a mom Instagram influencer with your 477 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: kids blowing up brand requested account, do you think that 478 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: kind of planted a seed in your head for what 479 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: later became the TikTok Bento box videos. I think it 480 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: was like my first foray into that world, and so 481 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: I knew what to expect. Michelle knew what the industry 482 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: was like. She could see how easily she could make 483 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: money and really lean into the influencer world. But given 484 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: her family and the career she still wanted to pursue, 485 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: she chose to make careful and conscious decisions in her pivot. 486 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: I will do brand deals here and there, and they 487 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: are very specific and they are chosen very carefully because 488 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: in the end, like my goal is just to hopefully 489 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: uplift people and tell stories that will help them, I 490 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: don't know, in some way, like explain how they're feeling, 491 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: or like I get a lot of messages from kids 492 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: being like I wish my parents were like this. I 493 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: sent this to my mom right and like that's a 494 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: great thing. It's a great feeling for me. Can you 495 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: lift up the curtain for us a little bit about 496 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: how that works, Like do you have a social media 497 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: agent that finds deals? Do they reach out to you? 498 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: Like how does that all work? So people reach out 499 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: to me constantly, Like I had a movie reach out 500 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: to me recently to make a themed box around that movie. 501 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: And then like when it came to them sending me revisions, 502 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not comfortable with this. And we 503 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: had both signed contracts on both sides, and you know, 504 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: it was like a pretty big deal, and when it 505 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: came down to the eleventh hour, I was like, I 506 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: don't think I'm not comfortable making any of these changes. 507 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: And they were like, well, do you want to terminate 508 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: the contract? And I was like, I think we have 509 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 1: to write, Like there's no other way around that. So 510 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: I don't have an agent. I've had a lot of 511 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: people reach out to me to be my agent, But 512 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: I also I think that that would just like it 513 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't make me feel very honest about what's going on. 514 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: So what kind of deals do you work with besides 515 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: for obviously the Greens, the things that I feel comfortable 516 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: feeding my kid. I did do a campaign with Walmart 517 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Plus and Target, but both of those were not on 518 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: my page. They were for them, so I was like, 519 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: mainly more talent than anything else. But yeah, like I 520 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: haven't really done that many because I don't want to 521 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: just put random things in the lunchboxes. I really want 522 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: it to be things I do feed my kids. Does 523 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: the piece where you become the talent does that cross 524 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: over into your TV career? Huh, that's a good question. 525 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think I try to keep 526 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: them very separate. I mean, all my bosses know that 527 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: I do this other thing where I make these lunch boxes, 528 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: but it's so far from what I do. Yeah, I 529 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: mean I've never like so for New York Live, I 530 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: mainly cover beauty, skincare, fashion, and then for NBCLEX, I 531 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: really just cover national issues. So there has been no 532 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: like the ven diagram doesn't overlap. There is no like 533 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: lunchbox portions so yet. I mean, and I also have 534 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: never covered like parenting or mom stuff. To be honest, 535 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: I'd like to keep it that way so that I 536 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: can keep like my mom things separate. I also think 537 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: it's like they're just like, so it's these mundane moments 538 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: in life, but there's something about it that feels so 539 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: real because they are real, and that's like what people 540 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of relate to. And so I am probably one 541 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: of the few reporters in a very unique position to 542 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: do a TikTok live and an Instagram live and get 543 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: stories from across the country from people and get to 544 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: cherry pick what I want right And so in that sense, 545 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: I do think that it's going to help my job. 546 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: But to be honest, like they're completely uninterested and everything 547 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: else about what I do on social media. Although the 548 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: shift is slow, Michelle is on the forefront of a 549 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: new generation of media. She's in a unique position to 550 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: bridge the gap between social media and traditional TV. Her 551 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: background allows her to keep one foot in each, making 552 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: her more accessible to younger generations. Now working for NBCLX, 553 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: Michelle is able to use her passion for storytelling to 554 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: communicate like I get to you know, I wrote an 555 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: intro to this other story I'm doing, and my boss 556 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: wrote back, he was like, can you add a personal touch? 557 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: And I've never been asked for that when I've put 558 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: a story together, right, do you think that adding the 559 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: personal piece is because if the network is geared towards 560 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: gen Z, that's how they want to receive the news. 561 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: I think gen Z feels like what is currently on 562 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: television as TV news is so sterile and so uninteresting. 563 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's the reason for that, is because 564 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: there's such a social media generation where they feel like 565 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: they know the people that they're looking at every day 566 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: on such a personal level, like if you're and I 567 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: also think the issues that we cover just seem so 568 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: much more compelling to me, Like it's it's less about, hey, 569 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: here are the terrible things going on in the world, 570 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: and at least what I cover is more about like, hey, 571 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: let's take a look down at some of the interesting 572 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: phenomenons that are happening in our society and discuss From 573 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: a young student at Stanford who thought she wanted to 574 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: be a lawyer to a journalist, to a TikTok creator 575 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: and back again. Michelle could teach a masterclass of making 576 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: your way in the world through nonlinear paths. Her pivots 577 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: have been unconventional, fueled by a global pandemic, and still evolving. 578 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: I have no idea where I'm going. I mean, I 579 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: like where I'm at I'm like really enjoying my work. 580 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: I really feel like I've struck a balance where I 581 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: can spend a lot of time with my kids. But frankly, 582 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: I don't really know. I just kind of want to 583 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: enjoy the moment. As cliche as that sounds, I feel 584 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: like what you're describing as something that I really feel 585 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: that my goals used to be just professional, and then 586 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: suddenly my goals became how to balance my personal and 587 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: professional and how to have meaningful work while still being 588 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: able to balance the personal. Yeah, and it's very hard. 589 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: It's very hard. How's everything going with you? I feel 590 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: like the way that I am trying to find the 591 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: balance between the personal and the professional while still having 592 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: professional things that feel nourishing and fulfilling is actually by 593 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: doing this show. Oh that's wonderful. I keep kind of jogging. 594 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: This show is my form of therapy. But it truly 595 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: is that I feel like I am maybe past the pivot. 596 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm maybe in the middle of the pivot, but the 597 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: career as I knew it doesn't exist for me at 598 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: this point, not with three kids so young, so it 599 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: looks different. So, you know, I'm looking to find the 600 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: stories that inspire me the women who make me feel like, Okay, 601 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: you did it, like you took the moment that you 602 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: were in and you changed it and it became something 603 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: even better. Maybe so that I don't feel like I failed. 604 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: So I'm excited about this show. Do you feel like 605 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: you fail? Maybe I feel like the thing I was 606 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: always so focused on was being at the height of 607 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: a political career and I cannot do that at this 608 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: point in my life. And maybe I will again one day, 609 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: or maybe it'll look different. I don't know. And so 610 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: with this show, you're trying to, would you say, inspire 611 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: other women to lean into that moment that you're kind 612 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: of experiencing. Yeah, absolutely, to inspire them and to make 613 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: them think about the options in front of them differently, 614 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: like to think about how to take the experience they've 615 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: had and how to take the life event that they 616 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: may still be going through or maybe that they're at 617 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: the tail end of it, and see that it can 618 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: it can build. Those things can build on one another 619 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: to be something that's incredible. Yeah. You know, when the 620 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: Biden administration took over this year, it was really hard 621 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: for me not to want to move back to Washington 622 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: and to march into the White House. The you know, 623 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: people that had been my junior staffers are now working 624 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: in the White House. So I felt like, ah, well, 625 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: this is the moment I've been waiting for, like it 626 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: should be me, But that option is not open to 627 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: me right now because I have three little kids who 628 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: are settled after moving eight times in eighteen months, and 629 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: we just can't do that to them again. So, you know, 630 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: I had to think about it differently, but it's hard 631 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: not to be a little bit resentful of my kids 632 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: for feeling like killing my career. I one relate to that, though, like, 633 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: so how do you how did you make that decision? 634 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: Because there was another decision to be made. You could 635 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: have decided, you know what, we're going to move a 636 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: ninth time in eighteen months. Yeah, to pick up and 637 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: move back. My husband was a little over it, and 638 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: it was starting to feel like we were comfortable for 639 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: the first time, like we had roots in a community 640 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: for the first time, and pulling that up again just 641 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: really I don't think emotionally I could have handled it. Yeah, 642 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: feeling settled started to feel good, but then I had 643 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: to find different work that felt fulfilling, and so here 644 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: we are and so here we are that brings us 645 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: to this very moment a podcast studio. Well, thank you 646 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: so much, Michelle. It's been so great to catch up 647 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: with you and I'm excited to see what happens next. 648 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of she Pivots, 649 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: where I talk with women about how their experiences and 650 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: significant personal events led to their pivot and eventually their success. 651 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram 652 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: at she Pivots the podcast. Leave a rating in comment 653 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this episode wherever you listen to podcasts 654 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 1: to help others learn about it. A specially thank you 655 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: to our partner Marie Claire and the team that made 656 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: this episode possible. Talk to you next week. Tired of 657 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: ads interrupting your gripping investigations, Good news, AD free listening 658 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: on Amazon Music is included with your Prime membership. Ads 659 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. Just head 660 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: to Amazon dot com slash ad free true Crime to 661 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Shows 662 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: a free for punch descriptions. Some shows me that ready 663 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: to disrupt your industry without disrupting your flow. 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