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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission

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Speaker 1: Control decads. Most importantly, you are you, You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't.

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Speaker 4: Want you to know.

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Speaker 1: This evening, we're asking a big, big question, one that

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Speaker 1: we have surprisingly not tackled before. Guys, what exactly is

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Speaker 1: this thing that we're all in?

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Speaker 4: What is life? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm a normal guy. Yeah, I wake up

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Speaker 1: every sunset at the at the crack of evening and

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Speaker 1: put on my skin one leg at a time like

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Speaker 1: anyone else. But like, what is reality?

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Speaker 3: Bro? I think we're just spiritual beings having a physical experience, right,

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Speaker 3: So I think and I made that up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we're just animated carbon shambling through the filth.

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Speaker 4: Bro.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just if you think about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: the closest analog to the consciousness is kind of a song, right,

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Speaker 1: It's a pattern. So we're sort of the stories and

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Speaker 1: the songs we sing to ourselves. If you think about it,

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Speaker 1: your brain is kind of like a little figure in

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Speaker 1: a big meat mech and it's controlling all sorts of

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Speaker 1: weird stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, meat mech and.

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Speaker 1: I you know it's it's weird because people have been

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Speaker 1: arguing about the nature of reality or phenomenology for since

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Speaker 1: time immemorial. And there's this question. Is the set of hardwired, constant,

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Speaker 1: unchanging physical laws. Is it more subjective? Is it just

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Speaker 1: this sort of narrative that thinking minds agree upon. Is

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Speaker 1: is it all just a bunch of you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of shadows on a cave wall, like Plato said? Or

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Speaker 1: is it some sort of computer program? And if so,

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Speaker 1: can this program be hacked? We promise you we are

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Speaker 1: not high. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 4: You said that a lot in the last episode too.

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Speaker 1: I feel like when we talk about these things, we

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Speaker 1: have to establish that baseline.

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Speaker 4: Hey, to each their own. I am a little high.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna perfect facts here.

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Speaker 3: We have explored the nature of reality because you know what, guys,

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Speaker 3: it's fun. It's like one of the things, like metacognition

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Speaker 3: is one of the things that makes us human. So

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Speaker 3: thinking about thinking, thinking about what this all of this is,

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Speaker 3: what we're being presented with it, if it as meaning?

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Speaker 3: If not, like all of the things that you said. So,

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Speaker 3: this is something that's definitely come up in a lot

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Speaker 3: of strange news and Listener Male episodes in the past,

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Speaker 3: this idea of some sort of simulation here. But like consciousness,

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Speaker 3: until relatively recently, reality has always kind of been presented

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Speaker 3: as some sort of dilemma that needs to be reckoned with, right,

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Speaker 3: like the nature of reality, like what is this? Is

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Speaker 3: this a shared experience? Is there a god? Whatever?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's because all of us can deuce take certain

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Speaker 2: actions to affirm for ourselves that this is in fact reality,

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Speaker 2: and the things that we are experiencing are very similar,

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Speaker 2: if not the same, to things that some other seemingly

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Speaker 2: conscious being is experiencing. Right, And as humans, as we've

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Speaker 2: continued to evolve, we've gotten better at, you know, measuring

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Speaker 2: things and writing down the things that we find as

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Speaker 2: we get deeper and deeper into you know, the sub

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Speaker 2: atomic and go bigger and bigger out into the cosmos.

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Speaker 2: But there's a problem, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, there are quite a few problems humans experience

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Speaker 1: reality all the time. There's not really a pause from it.

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Speaker 1: But despite thousands and thousands and thousands of years of

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Speaker 1: contemplating this, humans still struggle to define reality, let alone

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Speaker 1: understand it. And there was this great this great article

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Speaker 1: for new scientists. I think it came out in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one or so with these three authors, Jason Arun, Mrogessu,

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Speaker 1: Joshua al Guego, and Gilead Ahmet, and they put it

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Speaker 1: this way, they said, reality seems so solid, and yet

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Speaker 1: when we examine it closely, it melts away like a mirage.

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Speaker 1: We don't know when it began, how big it is,

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Speaker 1: where it came from, and where it is going, and

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Speaker 1: we certainly have no clue why it exists.

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Speaker 3: For another perspective, you could check out the seminal nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety four grunge film Reality Bites, directed by Ben Stiller.

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Speaker 4: That's another way of looking at reality.

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Speaker 1: But ninety eight percent of bends are just so dope, dude.

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Speaker 3: Ben ben Stiller's a good He's one of the good bends.

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Speaker 3: I like where his career has taken him. I think

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Speaker 3: he's a talent both in front of and behind the camera.

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Speaker 3: That was that one he did he directed. I think

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Speaker 3: every episode severance also about the nature of reality, very

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Speaker 3: mind bend kind of show, if you're to that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff. But you know, to your point, it is

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Speaker 3: an interesting thing, because what is reality if not like

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Speaker 3: some sort of shared understanding of the truth, you know.

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Speaker 3: But then it can also become more of a question

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Speaker 3: about presentational qualities of what we are seeing and experiencing.

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Speaker 3: So reality, it's got a lot of layers to it

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Speaker 3: just as a concept.

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Speaker 1: Right, sure, Yeah, the new scientist quotation continues here. They say, nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: the desire to understand reality seems part of our nature,

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Speaker 1: and we have come a long way. They're talking as

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Speaker 1: humans about humans. They say, what was once explained in

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Speaker 1: terms of divine creation is now in the purview of science.

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Speaker 1: Over the past two hundred years or so, we have

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Speaker 1: peeled back the layers of reality, even if we are

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Speaker 1: still not entirely sure what we have revealed. I mean, okay, look,

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Speaker 1: obviously this they can run the risk of becoming a

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Speaker 1: somewhat sophomoric conversation where people just sort of bandy platitudes

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Speaker 1: about but that's not what we're doing this evening, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist people have made progress on navigating the Gordian

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Speaker 1: nod of existence. Even now you can find no shortage

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Speaker 1: of people claiming to have capital F figured it all out.

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Speaker 1: Some of the answers spirituality philosophy. You can't argue with

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Speaker 1: spirituality that is every person's individual choice. I love when

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Speaker 1: Descartes said, you know, man, I'm thinking about it, so

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm real because something is thinking.

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Speaker 4: I was tight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that was good, But I mean, I also

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Speaker 3: think it's interesting to think about the idea of like

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Speaker 3: eyewitness accounts and the way people perceive things, and this

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Speaker 3: idea of what.

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Speaker 4: Is the truth?

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Speaker 3: You know, like that to me is as one of

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Speaker 3: the layers I think those researchers were referring to. You know,

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Speaker 3: there there are many layers to the idea of reality,

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Speaker 3: not just about what we see, but about how people

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Speaker 3: interpret things.

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Speaker 1: And there are a lot of gatekeepers for that idea.

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Speaker 1: Because we're coming now, we're talking about consensual narrative, right,

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Speaker 1: the idea that, like a lot of spiritual belief systems

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Speaker 1: will argue that you, if you are cue, you exist

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Speaker 1: on the precipice of some greater profound understanding, you know,

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Speaker 1: some samsara right piece beyond words, and you can find

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Speaker 1: this if you follow the right spiritual leaders, the right regiments,

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Speaker 1: if you meditate, or in some cases cough cough, scientology,

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Speaker 1: if you donate money. Other attempts at answering the challenge

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Speaker 1: of reality. They rely on the bleeding edge of modern science.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of what we're looking at this evening.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll get into this in a second, but

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Speaker 1: we've got to do a tease for our main guy,

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Speaker 1: our protagonist of the show. We're going to go into

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Speaker 1: this dude's reality pretty deep tonight. What's his name?

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Speaker 4: Who is he?

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Speaker 2: He's somebody you should know by this point. Twenty years

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Speaker 2: ago he put out something that has really been foundational

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Speaker 2: for a lot of the discussions that have been going

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Speaker 2: on on YouTube and TikTok and all these other things. Right,

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Speaker 2: mister Nick Bostrom, philosopher.

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Speaker 4: F I'm just amazed.

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Speaker 1: I'm just amazed because I didn't think about it, Matt,

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Speaker 1: until you pointed it out. Two thousand and three was

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yikes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what you will hear known as simulation

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Speaker 2: theory or holographic universe theory. There's all kinds of names

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Speaker 2: for it, most often simulation theory, and if.

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Speaker 3: I'm not mistaken, I believe Bostrom comes up or maybe

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Speaker 3: is even interviewed a little bit in Josh Clark's The

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Speaker 3: End of the World series, which is about existential threats.

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Speaker 1: Correct correct, yes, yeah, And Josh's show holds up.

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Speaker 4: Do check it out.

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Speaker 1: He is a dear old friend of ours. He also

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Speaker 1: does a little show with his pal Chuck that you

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Speaker 1: might know. It's called Stuff you should know, So check

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Speaker 1: it out.

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Speaker 4: Support that's just going places now that we've given up

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Speaker 4: the plug.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is going to be a big

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Speaker 1: year for them.

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Speaker 2: Oh, hey, kids, their kids book just came out. I

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Speaker 2: got a message from writer and his mom. They were

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Speaker 2: in the bookstore there in Decatur, where I guess they.

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Speaker 4: Have a sign shop of stories.

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Speaker 2: There are a bunch of science copies.

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Speaker 1: Former that is a former bank too. That is the

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Speaker 1: coolest children's bookstore in the Atlanta metro area. Also shout

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Speaker 1: out to our pals Annie and sam Annie recent Samantha

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Speaker 1: McVeigh over at Stuff. Mom never told you they have

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Speaker 1: a book on the way. Do check that out. We

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Speaker 1: also have a book if.

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Speaker 4: We're on the book talk.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, Bostro, what's this what's this punchy character up to.

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Speaker 5: So his idea, and we're going to dig into this.

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Speaker 5: His idea, I argues one basic groundbreaking premise, and it's

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Speaker 5: it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: It calls a lot back to earlier arguments of spirituality

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Speaker 1: and philosophy, or it may remind some of us of

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Speaker 1: the premises of gnosticism. He's saying, this whole thing, this

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Speaker 1: whole reality, could be made up. If reality really is

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Speaker 1: somehow a cartoonishly complex computer program, how would you know, folks, Well,

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Speaker 1: starting basis, if it's a computer in any way remotely

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Speaker 1: like the computer's Earth's favorite primates have been making for

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Speaker 1: a while, then it relies on programming. It relies on code.

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Speaker 1: And if reality has a source code, can you find it?

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Speaker 1: Perhaps more importantly, can you hack the simulation? This would

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Speaker 1: usually be the moment where we pause for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsors. However, we got a lot to get

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Speaker 1: to tonight, folks. We're not going to stand on ceremony.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Could we hack the simulation?

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Speaker 1: Is the universe as you know it a simulation?

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Speaker 4: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Actually, yes, just maybe it might be.

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Speaker 2: What Yeah, And it goes back to the problem that

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Speaker 2: we Once we get deep enough again into the micro,

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Speaker 2: into the nano, into deeper than that, things get fuzzy

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Speaker 2: and stuff doesn't seem to function the way our models

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Speaker 2: of physics say they should function. Isn't that the crazy thing?

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Speaker 2: Because that same problem exists on the macro scale, things

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Speaker 2: don't function the way we understand they should function within physics.

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Speaker 2: If you go in either of those directions, which means

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Speaker 2: that we have an understanding of what we can do

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Speaker 2: and really truly interact with with our human meat bodies,

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Speaker 2: you know, and to you know, there's a threshold above

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Speaker 2: what we can actually touch, you know, when it comes

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Speaker 2: to like temperate sure heat or lack of heat, when

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Speaker 2: it comes over time. Hey, when it comes to time

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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. We can go beyond. We can

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Speaker 2: push those bounds with our technology. But when we use

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Speaker 2: that technology to look too hard at something, stuff just

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Speaker 2: gets wonky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, down to the femto scale up to the giga

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Speaker 1: scale and beyond. It's weird because since no one knows

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Speaker 1: what's happening, since humanity collectively for the entirety of existence

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Speaker 1: up to August twenty first, twenty twenty three, as we

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Speaker 1: record this, since no one knows what the is going on.

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Speaker 1: We're in a pretty cool spot as a civilization. Even

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Speaker 1: the strangest sounding ideas like simulation theory are worth investigating.

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Speaker 1: We are currently in the brainstorming period of figuring out

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Speaker 1: reality as a collective thing. So Nick Bostrom has a

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Speaker 1: few basic premises or axioms that we have to understand

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Speaker 1: to really understand his argument about simulation theory, and they're

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Speaker 1: pretty simple, except well, we'll give you three and then

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Speaker 1: there's a big like Shyamalan plot twist.

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Speaker 4: At the end. Yeah, that's okay.

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Speaker 3: I mean, let's just lay it out before we try

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Speaker 3: to dismantle it.

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Speaker 4: First.

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Speaker 3: He argues that humanity, you know, will inevitably reach a

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Speaker 3: technological point, a high water mark where a simulated version

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Speaker 3: of the universe could be something in the cards to

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Speaker 3: be created. Maybybe it's even like a copy of the

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Speaker 3: one that we're already inhabiting, whether this be virtual or whatever,

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Speaker 3: like a like a miniature. I don't know, we've seen this,

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Speaker 3: and this is a science fiction any type stuff for sure,

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Speaker 3: which you're definitely gonna get to. So this could be

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Speaker 3: what we may be referred to as the singularity when

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Speaker 3: humans and send humanism by you know, basically flexing all

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Speaker 3: of these technological and scientific muscles you know that they've

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Speaker 3: been honing for all these years. Bostrom says that if

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Speaker 3: they humanity can create a universe simulation, they absolutely will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, right, it is interesting, And I agree people.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we know people do stuff. They

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Speaker 3: often leap before they look. Uh so it's not like

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Speaker 3: we have a great history of like thinking about things before.

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Speaker 4: Just let's just try it. Throw things at the wall,

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Speaker 4: see what sticks. Of course they're gonna do the thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The next question is why would they do that thing?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: What would they use that thing for? Once let's say

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Speaker 2: you've created well, because you can, but what do you

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Speaker 2: use it for? What's the purpose of this other universe

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Speaker 2: that you've created if you could create it?

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Speaker 1: Think about the virtuals, like the sims.

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Speaker 2: That's what That's exactly what I'm going to think about.

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Speaker 2: So we're talking too than and three when Nick Bostrom is,

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Speaker 2: you know, presenting all this stuff. A couple of years

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Speaker 2: before that, nineteen ninety nine, a little movie called The

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Speaker 2: Matrix came out. That was that captured the popular mind,

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Speaker 2: right it did. It was a huge movie. A little

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Speaker 2: thing that you just mentioned called the SIMS came out

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Speaker 2: a virtual world a couple like literally a year after

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Speaker 2: you put out these thoughts. World of Warcraft was first unveiled.

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Speaker 2: We were getting into virtual worlds as humanity, like real, tangible,

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Speaker 2: feeling virtual worlds, not some of the older stuff that

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Speaker 2: we think about when it comes back to video games.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, drug wars.

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Speaker 2: Even like the early MMOs like EverQuest or something you

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Speaker 2: could put into here, or you know, second life things

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Speaker 2: like that. We're we're just thinking about it a lot more, right, So, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean, I'm glad that you took it there right away.

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Speaker 3: The idea of the gamification, you know, the immediate thing

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Speaker 3: that we would want to do with this is to

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Speaker 3: make the world's most advanced mm RPG.

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Speaker 2: Or something like that. Right, That's one possibility, right, But

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Speaker 2: the other possibility would be what maybe.

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Speaker 4: For study, some studying, yeap, just to see how things work, right,

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Speaker 4: like to try things.

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Speaker 3: Let's see model catastrophic weather situations, model all kinds of

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Speaker 3: scenarios to see how they might affect you know, the

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Speaker 3: quote unquote real.

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Speaker 2: Universe or political systems that too.

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Speaker 1: Let us build a small a small scale, constrained instance

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Speaker 1: of a world right and and you know it's no

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Speaker 1: secret longtime listeners. Before doing this podcasting thing, I was

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Speaker 1: tangentially involved in some in some of this stuff I

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Speaker 1: learned at the feet of some people who really are

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Speaker 1: doing that thing. There are, as we record now, it's

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Speaker 1: open secret at least that there are very smart people

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Speaker 1: who have constructed simulations with constraints of entire countries and

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Speaker 1: they are mapping out stuff. And when you have enough

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Speaker 1: data and you have enough know how, then what your

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Speaker 1: model can do becomes very close to what happens in

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Speaker 1: the real world, which maybe for some people proves that

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Speaker 1: the real world is another model, not the reality show. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: that's an awesome model for human interaction. Thank YOUMTV. So,

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Speaker 1: like that's the idea, the educational aspect. Why would you

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Speaker 1: do this if you could, Well, you would want to

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Speaker 1: learn more about yourself. Humans are humans favorite thing, so

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Speaker 1: you would also be able to use this as a

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Speaker 1: diagnostic predictive tool. Scientists, if this were possible, would probably

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Speaker 1: create as many simulations as they could as a way

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Speaker 1: of learning more about their own universe. Like what what

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Speaker 1: if the amino acids that make up DNA are just

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Speaker 1: a little bit different. How does that change things? What

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Speaker 1: if life is silicon based rather than carbon based?

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: These are very interesting questions. The third assumption the Bosstroum

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Speaker 1: needs us to follow on with is he says, we

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Speaker 1: must assume that the virtual inhabitants of any simulated universe

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Speaker 1: possess characteristics similar to our own universe, including consciousness. Key

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Speaker 1: thing being they're not aware they're in a simulation. So

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Speaker 1: the quick recap humanity reaches a point where they would

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Speaker 1: create a simulated universe, and they definitely would that's another assumption.

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Speaker 1: Then second, they would use this to learn more about themselves,

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Speaker 1: and third, the that they created would not be aware

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Speaker 1: that they were in a program. And this leads us

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Speaker 1: all to the you know, the big plot twist. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's to do this one. I uh, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, no, we can talk about this. Basically,

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Speaker 2: what Bostrom is stating is that if it is possible

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Speaker 2: to create a universe like this within whatever universe that

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Speaker 2: they live in that are creating this universe, let's say

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Speaker 2: us far in the future, it's almost impossible that it

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Speaker 2: hasn't already been done, and we currently aren't living in

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Speaker 2: that universe, the simulated one. That that's where it gets

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Speaker 2: a little, It gets kind of crazy because it sounds

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Speaker 2: like a huge leap, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it makes me think of the

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Speaker 3: inevitable part of the science fiction movie where the cyborg

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Speaker 3: realizes it's a cyborg, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: Like, what what does it mean to know this? And

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Speaker 4: like we all exist.

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Speaker 3: In our heads, we know that we are aware, and

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Speaker 3: we feel unique and the product of memories and things

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Speaker 3: like that that make us individuals.

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Speaker 4: So like if we were faced with this, Nope, that's

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Speaker 4: all not real.

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Speaker 3: That's all but been created by somebody else, and none

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Speaker 3: of it is.

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Speaker 4: Unique to you.

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Speaker 3: That to me is that moment, you know, where like

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Speaker 3: the robot who's been living under the assumption that it's.

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Speaker 6: A real human has its world rocked. You know, uh,

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Speaker 6: you're the clone, damn it. That kind of stuff. But

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Speaker 6: also also, okay, think about this, like it sounds at

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Speaker 6: first blush. It sounds as though we're saying, Hey, the

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Speaker 6: following ingredients for a case idea exist. We all know

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Speaker 6: those exist.

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Speaker 1: Therefore, you are inevitably eating a case adea right now.

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Speaker 1: Those two things are don't square, and it does feel

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Speaker 1: like a leap to your point, Matt, because everything that

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Speaker 1: perceives reality appears to tell any living creature. It appears

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Speaker 1: to indicate that just because an event can occur does

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Speaker 1: not necessarily mean it will, has, or does occur, unless,

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Speaker 1: of course, we bring in multiversal theory, wherein everything is

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Speaker 1: happening all at once, all possible events do occur. But

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Speaker 1: let's hold off on that one. Let's go back to

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Speaker 1: bosterm He does not accept this idea. He does not

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Speaker 1: accept this objection to the argument. He argues instead that

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Speaker 1: we cannot assume some other version of intelligent beings human, posthuman, transhuman,

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Speaker 1: or otherwise. We can't assume they haven't already hit that

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Speaker 1: technological landmark and therefore created a simulation in which we're

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Speaker 1: now living. And then it gets even trickier, because if

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Speaker 1: you're living in a simulation, everything that you can gather

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Speaker 1: and observe and test and measure also exist within the

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Speaker 1: bounds of that manufactured reality. So we'd have no real

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Speaker 1: way to break the fourth wall, as it were, you know,

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Speaker 1: anymore than like you guys know, we're gamers. We love,

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Speaker 1: we especially love deeply immersive RPGs. You know, anymore, it'd

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Speaker 1: be like a non player character NPC in Skyrim or

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Speaker 1: Fallout all of a sudden saying, holy smokes, I'm a caji,

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Speaker 1: I'm a cat person. Or what's what's like an NPC

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Speaker 1: from Fallout? What do they have?

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Speaker 4: A ghoule perhaps, okay, a junk trader or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like right, well, I mean, I think another good

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Speaker 3: piece of pop culture to refer to with this kind

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Speaker 3: of thinking, as Westworld to the series, at least the

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Speaker 3: first couple of seasons where they're really in the game.

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Speaker 4: I kind of lost track of it after that.

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Speaker 3: But like all of those characters that are NPCs or whatever,

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Speaker 3: some of them have lower level programming, some of them

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Speaker 3: are like they do one thing and that's all they do.

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Speaker 3: Then they're the higher level ones that like can make

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Speaker 3: more complex decisions. And they refer to it in game

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Speaker 3: theory and in game designing as a loop, and that's

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Speaker 3: what they refer to it in the show, as all

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Speaker 3: these characters, these storylines are on these loops and then

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Speaker 3: they're reset, you know, And a loop could be any length,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you think about it in the scale

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Speaker 3: of the universe, or like a really long timeline our

404
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Speaker 3: loop could be very very long. We just in lifetime

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Speaker 3: isn't that long in the grand scheme of things, a

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Speaker 3: human life?

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Speaker 4: So maybe that's loop, you know. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a big bang to a great collapse. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the of course the triumph of entropy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm sitting here staring at the playhead in audition,

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Speaker 2: just thinking about time when it comes to this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I'm trying to put it into words. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've failed a couple of times, We've beat it out.

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Speaker 2: But there's also time factors into here, right, like fourth

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Speaker 2: dimensional state of time as something that can be accessed

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Speaker 2: not in the way we experience time, Like the playhead

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Speaker 2: in audition that's currently recording everything I'm saying, and I

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Speaker 2: can only experience what has you know, hit that playhead, right,

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Speaker 2: what that playhead has experienced thus far. But if you

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Speaker 2: pull out further than that, it's everything that could possibly

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Speaker 2: be in front of that playhead or I don't know, God,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 1: No, it makes sense, I hear you, Matt. Because the

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Speaker 1: idea then is that there is a dimension a space

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Speaker 1: right that we call time, and it for observable experience.

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Speaker 1: It's accessed in one way, via one process. However, the

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Speaker 1: argument would be that without those constraints, time could be

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Speaker 1: accessed in a much less linear way. It could be

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Speaker 1: experienced the way that you experience other dimensions. Right, Like

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Speaker 1: this is this is weird, and it gets weirder the

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Speaker 1: concept that Okay, let's just say, for the sake of argument,

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Speaker 1: for the sake of hanging out, let's say Bullstrom is

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Speaker 1: right that they're this reality in which everyone's hearing this

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Speaker 1: show tonight is part of a manufactured reality from some

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Speaker 1: other space. Well why stop it to realities? Okay, right,

436
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: why not both? What about a Matroshka doll approach? What

437
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: about the possibility that this universe could be a simulation

438
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: within another simulation within another simulation, and that humans are

439
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: thinking minds in this reality could in turn create their

440
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: own simulations, which is already happening. Then it would just

441
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: be ones and zeros. It's just code all the way down,

442
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: all the way up. I think that's kind of cool.

443
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: I think that's walking into a cathedral.

444
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very freaking morty.

445
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's that.

446
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: There's the thing with the universes in the boxes, or

447
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: we talked with with Hartman about that when we had

448
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: them on or that episode anyway, Yeah, I mean, and

449
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: you also there's a lot of people that that throw

450
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: around the idea of let's let's think about like intelligent design,

451
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: or like the idea of a prime mover or like

452
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: a god like force or entity that has control or

453
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 3: perhaps doesn't have control, just laid the pieces out just

454
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: to see what they do.

455
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 4: There there is within that even a bit of.

456
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 3: This kind of simulation theory where it's like for someone

457
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: else's benefit to see to test, to see what the

458
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 3: things are gonna do, to see what how things are

459
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 3: going to play out.

460
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

461
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: And on the first day God said, hold up, I'm

462
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: trying to say something, so, uh, you know, we're gonna

463
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: pause for a word from a responsor here at first, though,

464
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: before we go, we need to make an important note

465
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: between Bostrom's concept and between the ideas of gnosticism, the

466
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: wonderful work of the Wachowski's and the Matrix films. In

467
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: the Matrix, humans live in a simulated environment, but their

468
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: conscious minds or a product of the outside or quote

469
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 1: unquote real reality. Bullstrom is arguing that you everything that

470
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: makes you quote unquote you is in fact just another

471
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: product of this simulated reality. He's calling you a bit

472
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: of an MPC. Not really, but it's a fun tag.

473
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: Before we go to an ad break, I got to

474
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: ask it. You know, we've got just a few minutes

475
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: before we come back, and maybe we can just figure

476
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: this out and solve it off air, right.

477
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 4: To make it a short episode.

478
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: I have faith in us, and we have returned.

479
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,239
Speaker 4: Did we figure it out now?

480
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: We actually just kind of made more questions. Hopefully we

481
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: can get to a few of them.

482
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: In the episode with the time we writ I guess well,

483
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: that's one of the first questions. If you're an observer here,

484
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: the idea would be okay, this is really interesting stuff.

485
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: Nick Bostrom is one of the sharpest minds out there

486
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: and has made a really good, very well reasoned argument

487
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: with the appropriate axioms and the appropriate caveats and assumptions.

488
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: But can we prove it? Even Nick spoiler says that

489
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: you can't really prove it, and three very smart physicists

490
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: took that personally.

491
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: That's right.

492
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: For one, we have Silas r Bean, Zora Davoodie, and

493
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 3: Martin Jay's Avage. No way, It is no way to

494
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: not these names with a certain amount of gravitas, for

495
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: they sound like superheroes. They sound like superheroes, and they are,

496
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: for lack of a better way to describe them, scientific

497
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: superheroes in their own right Martin Jay Savage. All of

498
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: these individuals found the notion of the universe as a

499
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: computer simulation should be fascinating, as do we. We share

500
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: that with them, we are the same, and they started

501
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: to think of how it might be possible to figure

502
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: out if our own universe is a numerical simulation. Back

503
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: to your point about ones and zeros, Ben, we are

504
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: not scientific superheroes, nor are we physicists. So we're gonna,

505
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: you know, depend on some pretty solid work by our

506
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: buddy Jonathan Strickland that he has done on his podcast

507
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: Tech Stuff to break down some of these concepts, these

508
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: very complex concepts, into understandable form.

509
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna.

510
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: Okay, so these legend tier physicists what they're also names.

511
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: These researchers decided to work with something called lattice gauge

512
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: theory and something called quantum chromodynamics or QCD. These may

513
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: be unfamiliar terms to a lot of us, listening along

514
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: at home. They were certainly new to us when we

515
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: first started diving into simulation theory many years ago. But

516
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: here's the way we break it down and again shout

517
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: out to Strick. All right, the universe in which you

518
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: exist in what you hear this podcast. He's got a

519
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on, but it is, as far

520
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: as humans understand, based on four fundamental forces. One is

521
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: strong nuclear force, one is electromagnetism, one is weak nuclear force,

522
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: and the fourth is vibes. No, I'm kidding, the fourth

523
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: is gravity.

524
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: It is known vibes is in fact a force of nature.

525
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 3: So about the movie itself, it is a force culture

526
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: to be reckoned with.

527
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 4: I missed you guys too. Yeah.

528
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: So lattice gauge theory, which we'll get to, and this

529
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: idea quantum chromo dynamics. What they do is they focus

530
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: on one of those four fundamental forces, the strong nuclear force.

531
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: This is the.

532
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: Force that humans believe holds all the tiny things together.

533
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: It's what keeps sub atomic particles from drifting away from

534
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: one another. It is the strongest of the four fundamental forces.

535
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: But also it has the shortest range, which already sounds

536
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: like the kind of give and take that you would

537
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: encounter in a well programmed game. All right, so that

538
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: makes sense so far. The basic stuff. What is quantum

539
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: chromo dynamics. It is a theory that attempts to explain

540
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: how this strong nuclear force works in space time in

541
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: four dimensions. Right, so that's the three dimensions we know

542
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: plus the dimension of time.

543
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: And this is crazy.

544
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: When scientists like our three legendary physicists are studying quantum

545
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: chromo dynamics, they build their own universes to do so.

546
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: They're just very very small universes.

547
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you may ask how small?

548
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: And this is a very appropriate question considering the topic

549
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: they were trying to take on today, the idea of

550
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: copying the universe, whether it be in virtual form or otherwise.

551
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: What does that even look like down the line? Well,

552
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: this is something that is possible, but again on a

553
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: very very very tiny dining scale. Call you alluded to

554
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: it earlier, Ben, I believe the fempto scale.

555
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: Which is what is this a universe for ants?

556
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 4: Exactly? I know.

557
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: It's a really funny moment in the film Zoolander. Callback

558
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: once again to Ben Stiller. He contains multitudes a unit

559
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: of measurement the femto scale smaller than the nanoscale, which

560
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 3: I've always thought of as being as the teeniest of tinies. No, no,

561
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: says Femto, I am am one smaller. A nanometer is

562
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 3: one billionth of a meter, but a Femto meter is

563
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: one quadrillian. That is a figure or a ten. What

564
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: is that ten to the negative fifteen? Is that what

565
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: we're talking?

566
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, a ten to the negative fifteenth boundin yep, remember

567
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: those for maths, I sure do.

568
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: So.

569
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: They so this very very very very very small universe.

570
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: That's an excellent X explanational It's so small I can't

571
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: understand it. With all of this in consideration, this is

572
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: where the lattice structure comes in. The researchers say, let's

573
00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: represent this universe as bounded by a thing like picture

574
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: a ball around this tiny experience. This ball is not

575
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: a continual shell. It is instead a lattice, and a

576
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: lattice just means there's an overall bounding structure, but it

577
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: has holes in it. So like if you look through

578
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: a window screen and you have the the tiny grid

579
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: that keeps bugs and other big things out but still

580
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: lets air pass through, that's a lattice. And their assumption

581
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: then is that they can build a tiny universe bound

582
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: by this non continual structure around it. And they said, look,

583
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: if we go into this tiny, tiny universe with far

584
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: fewer variables, it might be possible to observe that this

585
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: universe is something we created by watching the interaction of

586
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: energy at the border. What happens when the air and

587
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: the bugs meet that windows screen meet that lattice.

588
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: It's interesting, but it's weird because it's all through a

589
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: computer simulation. Right, So they're simulating energy moving within their

590
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 2: simulated computer generated universe.

591
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 4: Yes, that's a really solid rhyme scheme. You just dropped

592
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: their mass.

593
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: So the concept is if if they can observe as

594
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: the creators of this mini universe, if they can observe

595
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 2: particles that they have created moving through that lattice and

596
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: like see it move through the lattice, then if we

597
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: could blow up that experience to our scale and find

598
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: similar energetic readings, we would know we're in a simulation.

599
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. That's the idea. Okay, that's the idea. Uh, Like,

600
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: what if what if you could zoom back out, get

601
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: away from the simulate a very small universe and go

602
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: back to the world in which you became a physicist

603
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: and in your ostensibly larger universe. What if you can

604
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: find an energy that can prove the lattice? What if

605
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: you can find the boundaries of the simulation. These researchers

606
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: believe this energy could be cosmic rays, which we guarantee

607
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: you is not something Stanley made up.

608
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: No, cosmic rays are very real. I just learned about

609
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 2: this because personally, guys, I've been studying this thing called

610
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,959
Speaker 2: the ice Cube Neutrino Observatory in Antarctica.

611
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, ice Cube was not only an excellent rapper

612
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: and an actor, but also a physicist.

613
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: He contains multituders U s iced Tea. Sorry.

614
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 3: Also, ice Cube is apparently a bit problematic, he said,

615
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: some not very nice things, but please different ice cube.

616
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

617
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: Well there. The detector is Oh gosh, I'm gonna get

618
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 2: it all wrong now that I'm having to like say

619
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 2: it out loud rather than just read it. It's it's

620
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: a beautiful, amazing detector that can sense I don't know

621
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: if it's cosmic rays, guys, but it's like neutrinos or

622
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: something where it, yeah, detect it moving through the Earth,

623
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: and I think it's connected in some or could be

624
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: connected to this in some way.

625
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's part of cern overall. And you nailed it, man.

626
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: It's a it's meant to observe neutrinos. And the pain

627
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: in the ass about that is it's actually, uh, it's

628
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: not possible now for human technology to directly observe neutrinos.

629
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: So what they did is they put a bunch of

630
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: very powerful sensors around like a cubic kilometer in Antarctica,

631
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: and they look at the ice. That's why it's called

632
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: the ice cube. They look at the ice, and when

633
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: neutrinos interact with it si ice, they create these electrically

634
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: charged secondary particles they're called Now this is deep water

635
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: for me, I'm not because it's with ice.

636
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: It's optical detectors allegedly that are in there. So it

637
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: literally sees these these thousands and thousands of optical detectors

638
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: see the thing. What's just nuts to me.

639
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: And that's that's the kind of fabric you're looking for

640
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: if you're trying to understand, you know, the clothing that

641
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: the universe wears that we call reality. This is like

642
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: feeling the lapels, you know, what I mean and getting

643
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: some sensory input. The researchers that we're talking about when

644
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: they're when they're talking about cosmic rays, Silas and the

645
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: gang are looking at this high energy radiation that comes

646
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: from outside the Solar system, and their idea is if

647
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: these cosmic behave as though they are interacting with some

648
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: sort of lattice structure, it would suggest that we exist

649
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: in a computer simulation that uses the same techniques as

650
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: this lattice gauge theory. So if reality as we know

651
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: it is bound by a rough structure that is not

652
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: totally continuous or contiguous, that you know, it has holes

653
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: in it like a lattice, then maybe the argument is

654
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: we can notice when some energy like cosmic rays appears

655
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: to hit part of the boundary and then appears to

656
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: shoot through the little holes.

657
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: But think about that in a computer simulated like virtual

658
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: world that we've created a simulation, right, you can't shoot

659
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: things through a boundary of World of Warcraft because it's

660
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 2: all software.

661
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: Right, Well, you can get to areas of any kind

662
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: of open world RPG wherein your path is blocked.

663
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: You get stuck in the environment. Sometimes you know whatever

664
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: you know I mean, and to me, my mind with

665
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 3: a lot of this stuff goes to the concepts of resolution.

666
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: You know, if you think about like cameras and pixels,

667
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: you know how large are. Over time, things have gotten

668
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 3: more and more precise in terms of like how tiny

669
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: the tiny as pixel is.

670
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 4: This is, I don't know.

671
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 3: This is just like sort of a more elaborate version

672
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: of that in a weird way, but maybe not. And

673
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: it also makes me think of the concept of a

674
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: very early I believe it was Pythagoras who came up

675
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 3: with the idea of monads, which was like a unit

676
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 3: of representational stuff, you know. I think it's described as

677
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: an elementary individual substance that reflects the order of the

678
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: world and from which material properties are derived, which even

679
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 3: in and of itself, is sounds like a construct. It

680
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: sounds like a simulation are derived, you know what I mean?

681
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love it because for the longest time

682
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: humans have been asking themselves. Humans love what are they

683
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: called superlatives, So humans have always been asking themselves what

684
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: is the smallest thing? What is the biggest thing? We

685
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: have to give a couple of notes about this idea. First,

686
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: for this to be real, humans would have had to

687
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: would have to develop some very sophisticated technology, the kind

688
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: of stuff that doesn't quite exist yet, something that could

689
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: measure and detect cosmic rays and their behavior with a

690
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: very high degree of accuracy and fidelity, right, because humans

691
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: are still working in linear time. And then that requires

692
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: a few additional assumptions. First, whatever created this simulation would

693
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: have had to follow a practice similar to what the

694
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: researchers are doing in their own tiny universe without a

695
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: common starting point, the whole concept, the whole argument, the

696
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: whole thought experiment, it collapses, not a wave collapse, but

697
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: hashtag no joke left behind. And then second, whatever creative

698
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: generative force was there, it would have also had to

699
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: have made a finite universe in which humans exist. Remember, right,

700
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: If there is no ending to this universe, then there

701
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: is nothing for that lattice to exist around. There's nothing

702
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: for it to contain, so lattice theory doesn't matter. And

703
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: then maybe the most important assumption, we would have to

704
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 1: assume the designers of this universe are not actively preventing

705
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: people from discovering that they are in fact part of

706
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: a simulation I think, I mean, do we want to

707
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: pause for a word from our response, whatsre we have

708
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: to talk about the caveats, the implications.

709
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 4: What does this mean? You know?

710
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it just makes me think about UAP. If

711
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: you wanted to come in and talk to the simulated.

712
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: You could come in as you know, a thing that

713
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: looks like one of the simulated and speaks like one

714
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: of the simulated and just interacts amongst them, or you

715
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 2: could send in whatever you were, you know, like I'm

716
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: trying to imagine, like, hello, fellow kids, I'm thinking back

717
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: back in the day It's Ultimate Online, when a GM

718
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: game manager would show up and just like pop in

719
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: to where you are and be like, oh, hi, what

720
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: seems to be the problem. Oh, I understand, let's talk

721
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: about it, and like tries to help you with a problem,

722
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: and then just pops out of the universe, Like could

723
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: that happen? Would it look like a UAP that's just

724
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: sitting there floating as a cube inside a sphere?

725
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: This is like tech support?

726
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: What a.

727
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 4: Excuse me? You seem to be having some difficulties with simulation.

728
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: What can we do to make your simulation experience as

729
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 3: as pleasant as possible?

730
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 6: I love that?

731
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 4: What if?

732
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: What if you in religions are real and you die

733
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: and it's just like going to tech support instead of

734
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: having yeah, and it's.

735
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: All done over a.

736
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 3: Really really quickly. Then you have to get in our group.

737
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 3: Text Threat had mentioned the new balders Gate game, which

738
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: apparently is great. People are screaming about the new balders

739
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 3: Gate game. And it is a big like choose your

740
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: an adventure type you know, RPG, but it sort of

741
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 3: is more like a virtual D and D. So it's

742
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: a little less where it's this accurate, super precise simulation

743
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 3: and more like terms of a tabletop game that you

744
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 3: might recognize, but with all the benefits of it being

745
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 3: a virtual thing.

746
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 4: I just that hybrid approach is.

747
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: What my mind is starting to go to for like

748
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 3: what this whole thing is all about?

749
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: And let's pause there in our since we are bound

750
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: by linear time, we are going to make some time

751
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: for goods and services from our sponsors and we will

752
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: be right back. Or are we already here? Have we

753
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: always been?

754
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 4: Sorry?

755
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: Let's go, We have returned.

756
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 4: So what does this mean?

757
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: You know, you're listening to this show now, You're in Brisbane,

758
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: You're in Jakarta, you're in Kansas City, you're in New York.

759
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: Or Atlanta, maybe even Russia. We've gotten some weird emails.

760
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: What does this mean for you? If the universe as

761
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: you understand is made up well, honestly, right now, it

762
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: does not change much. Doesn't change the price of a case. Indea,

763
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what your philosophical leanings or your ideology

764
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: or beliefs are. All human minds understand basic truths about

765
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: the reality. If you're a human, you emerge into the world,

766
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 1: experience stuff, your body decays over linear time, and at

767
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: some point you disappear, and no dead person has ever

768
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: come back in a provable way. If there is some

769
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: greater meta reality, we might think about our experiences differently,

770
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: But those experiences are not going to be different from

771
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 1: your phenomenological perspective. Like, You're still going to experience stuff

772
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: the same way. You'll just have different thoughts about what's

773
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: happening and why and knowing that you live in a simulation.

774
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: Is it going to change those basic truths? Oh, except

775
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: for the part that it means there would be a god.

776
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: That's like the one thing. It means there would be

777
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: a creator.

778
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 4: I'm on board with that.

779
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I think sure do seem for

780
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: it to all be from entropy, for it to all

781
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: be from chaos and un organized you know, madness.

782
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 4: Things sure did.

783
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 3: Find themselves into an orderly, relatively orderly way that allow

784
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 3: us to live here on this planet. And it also

785
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: reminds me of a thing that I think we've all

786
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 3: talked about with our good buddy Frank friend of the show,

787
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: who took a.

788
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: Class or audited a class or took.

789
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: A massive one of those massive online classes on complex

790
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 3: systems and the idea of complex systems and like how

791
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: they can be modeled and some of the features of

792
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: complex systems, which can be anything from like the way

793
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 3: the water table works and the water cycle to like

794
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: you know, the connection between members of different animal species

795
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 3: and all of that stuff and just you know, natural

796
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 3: things where you have to look at the individual components

797
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: in order to fully understand the bigger picture. And there's

798
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 3: tons of simulations that are done in the world of

799
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:50,720
Speaker 3: complex systems.

800
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, And before we go any further, because we

801
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: are now we are addressing scientific implications that do go

802
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: into the world of spirituality. So again, your spirituality is

803
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: your own. When you hear Matt or Noel or yours

804
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: truly talking about this kind of deep faith based stuff.

805
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: Know that we're speaking for ourselves. We're not telling you

806
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: what to believe. With that being said, I'd like to

807
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: shout out Epicurus, who has one of my favorite quotes

808
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: about this kind of thing. Is God? If God is real?

809
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then

810
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: he is not omnipotent? Is he able but not willing?

811
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: Then he is malevolent? Is he both able and willing?

812
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?

813
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: Then why call him God?

814
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 4: I love that. I have never heard that. I agree

815
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 4: with all of that.

816
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 3: I've always had an issue with the whole It's free will. Man,

817
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 3: God's not gonna, you know, keep you from suffering. That's

818
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: not his deal. I'm like, why not thought we were

819
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 3: all children of God? Like, why doesn't he intervene? And

820
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 3: if he's not, isn't it all just a game? Isn't

821
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: it all just kind of again that thing that he's

822
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: just observing to see how it'll play out, which seems

823
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: a little nihilistic and not particularly charitable to his creations.

824
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: You know, well, have you ever been mean to your sims?

825
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: You know, do you ever play civilization six and just

826
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: think I'll nuke it.

827
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: Why not?

828
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: That's like the idea, right or for a human analog

829
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: walking by an an hill and stepping on it for

830
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 1: a momentary, little little little shot, see like you.

831
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 4: Grow out of that.

832
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the kind of stuff that petulant

833
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 3: children do. And I would really hope that, you know,

834
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 3: someone with the power and.

835
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 4: Clout of a god would be above that. Maybe.

836
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: But this, okay, So all this means, if if one

837
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: could prove a simulation exists, all this means is that

838
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: there is some sort of again I hesitate to use

839
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: the word God, some sort of generative force. But from

840
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: the human perspective, it would be something like the divide.

841
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: It would be a creator from wind Sprang all creation,

842
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: and it might not have any remote resemblance to any

843
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: human concepts of God. Like I think, I went back

844
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: and looked to science fiction for one of my favorite

845
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: ways to understand this potential new state of reality. And

846
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: I think we should shout out one of the absolute

847
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: best examples of simulation theory from the world of fiction.

848
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: It is a short story called The Nine Billion Names

849
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: of God by Arthur C. Clark, whom we quote often

850
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: on this show and our boy Artie he wrote this

851
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: absolute banger way back in nineteen fifty three.

852
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 7: Do you guys know this story? We've talked about this

853
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 7: show before, but okay, I don't. I don't even want to. Man,

854
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 7: It's like, okay, fine, well, okay.

855
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 4: The setup. The setup.

856
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: It's very short. It's also freely available online as an

857
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: audio book and as text. You can listen to it now.

858
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: It won't take up a lot of time. The setup

859
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: is that there is a remote monastery in the Himalayas,

860
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: and they have contracted these two computer engineers to build

861
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: a very advanced computer for them. That's the That's all

862
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: I can tell you. I think that's enough of a tease, right, No,

863
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: you are gonna when when you read or hear this, man,

864
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: I guarantee you're going to hit the group chat.

865
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 4: What the hell?

866
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: I also, you know you you gave a really good

867
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 3: quote about the nature of God from an more uh

868
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 3: classic kind of source. I would love to offer one

869
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: from a more modern source. An amazing writer and musician

870
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 3: named David Berman who sadly passed away.

871
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 4: A handful of years ago.

872
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 3: He has a song called Margerita is at the mall

873
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: from this record he made called Purple Mountains, and I

874
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 3: think the lyrics.

875
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 4: Are fabulous and really go along with kind of what you.

876
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 3: Said, Ben, It's how long can a world go on

877
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 3: under such a subtle God? How long can a world

878
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 3: go on with no new word from God? See the

879
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 3: plod of the flawed individual looking for a nod from God,

880
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 3: trotting the sod.

881
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 4: Of the visible with no new word from God.

882
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the wordplay alone is worth the price of admission.

883
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 4: But I think it really I think it hits and then.

884
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 3: We're just shrinking. Margarita is at the mall. That's the

885
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 3: next line. It's yeah, it hits, man, And especially when

886
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: you know this is a very sad individual who struggled

887
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 3: with this kind of stuff and these sort of questions

888
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 3: and this sort of what does it all mean? And

889
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 3: managed to write it in such a tongue in cheek,

890
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 3: a cerbic kind of way. And this this man took

891
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 3: his own life very shortly after this album was released,

892
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 3: And if you listen to it with that in mind,

893
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: it really does read like the world's most hilarious tongue

894
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 3: in cheek suicide note. So all that to say is

895
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: These questions are not minor. These are like everything, you

896
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 3: know what I mean, too many people and some people

897
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: can't go on because it's just too much. It's too much,

898
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 3: you know, to think about all these possibilities and what

899
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: does it all mean and the meaninglessness or meaningfulness of

900
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 3: it all. I just think it's important to mention the

901
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: mental health aspect of a lot of these types of things.

902
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: You know, sure, yes it's it's a it's a big,

903
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: big thing to get your head around. And you know,

904
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: science is very good at explaining how, and spirituality attempts

905
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: to explain why. So this gets us into a troubling

906
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 1: range ven diagram between those two pursuits, which I would

907
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: also argue are not mutually exclusive science and spirituality. We're

908
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: out here on the bleeding edge of metacognitive experience, and

909
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: we have to ask what would happen if we could

910
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: not just prove the universe was a simulation, but what

911
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: would happen if we could interact with whatever generative force

912
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: created this simulation? Would they tell us that they were

913
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: also part of a simulated reality? Would they want to

914
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: hear from you? What would they say? What would their

915
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: priorities be? These are questions that haunt us. They echo

916
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: from the ancient past, pre linguistic ancient past, to the

917
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: modern day. And for fans of mathematics, the idea of

918
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: the universe has nothing more than a sophisticated form of code.

919
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: What's super intriguing. That's a umami right there. We can

920
00:55:54,719 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 1: understand ones and zeros. You know, it's devilishly if you'd

921
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: permit the pun.

922
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: Well, imagine you're playing SimCity. You create just just one city, right,

923
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: a single city, but you created it. Imagine that each

924
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: of those individual citizens of your city prayed to you

925
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: as the god their creator. Each one individually does and says,

926
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: you know, praise to you, tries to communicate with you

927
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: in some way. You are one person. How do you

928
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 2: respond to and take care of each one of those

929
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: you know, creature's demands, each one of those individuals demands

930
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,399
Speaker 2: or asks or wants or needs, like if we were

931
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: if we're taking it to that level right now, Imagine

932
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: instead of a city, it's a planet. And now imagine

933
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 2: instead of a planet, it's a galaxy and a universe

934
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: and a web of galaxies like I'm imagining just you know,

935
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: asking these questions of like getting to communicate with a creator.

936
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I do controlled opposition. I would

937
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: create a Promethean Luciferian character in the city and be like,

938
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: tell me your grievances, let's team up. You know what

939
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: I mean. That's just to keep things interesting.

940
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 3: I think this is a quote from Stanley Kubrick. I've

941
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 3: seen it attributed to him a bunch and I couldn't

942
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 3: find anything saying otherwise. I believe I've said this one

943
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 3: before too, but it's so appropriate. He says, how would

944
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: essentially an ant view the foot that crushes his aunt

945
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 3: hill as the action of another being on a higher

946
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 3: evolutionary scale than itself, or as the divinely terrible intercession

947
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 3: of God?

948
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 4: Right?

949
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: Right, it's a good question, right, It's one that applies now.

950
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: I mean, this planet civilization is one Gamma Ray burst

951
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: away from just popping, right, and there's nothing you could

952
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: do about it. Shout out again to Josh Clark at

953
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: the End of the World with Josh Clark, great show.

954
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: Check out the Gamma Ray episode. If here's that's another

955
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: intriguing thing, another baffling thing. There are certain patterns of

956
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: numbers that seem to spontaneously generate impredictable patterns throughout all

957
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: observable human experience. They're the same every time, They're very

958
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: just so. The most famous, of course, would be Pie.

959
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: Do check out that amazing film Pie, But then also

960
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: check out the world record, which changes pretty often of

961
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: individuals who are able to recite Pie from memory to

962
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: the longest extent. No one knows when Pie ends. Yet,

963
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: it's just a thing that exists. It's always the same

964
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: in the entirety of the observable universe, and no one

965
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: knows why. Another thing would be the Fibonacci sequence. That's

966
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: where the sum of each number is the sum of

967
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: the two numbers. That can before it sounds really simple,

968
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: gets really interesting. Like that's the thing that gets me.

969
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: How is that stuff the same? How does that never change?

970
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: That's the thing that science can't answer because that's a

971
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: why question, that's not a how question.

972
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 3: And like things like the golden ratio that like appear

973
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 3: you know, in nature so often.

974
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 4: Ah, yeah, I don't know, man.

975
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 3: I had a conversation with a dear friend the other

976
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: day about sort of like the nature of reality and

977
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 3: like sort of like a lot of these existential threats

978
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 3: outside of the simulation thing but I do think that

979
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 3: whatever the case, you know, we do know that I

980
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 3: think this experience, whether it's simulation or not, is painfully

981
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 3: short and pro probably best to do anything we can

982
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 3: to not beat ourselves up psychically over these kinds of things,

983
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 3: and just to kind of, at least at the very

984
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 3: least enjoy this ride to some degree.

985
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 4: And if it gives you.

986
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 3: Joy to think about these kinds of things and to

987
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 3: analyze it, then I think it's something that you should do.

988
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 3: But I just I think some people can go down

989
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 3: really dangerous rabbit holes with these kinds of things, and

990
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 3: it can lead to problematic lives, and I just don't want.

991
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 4: Everyone to have a good time, that's all. That's my

992
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 4: whole thing.

993
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: Sure, And for those of us playing along at home,

994
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: what you need to know is it's probably best for

995
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,959
Speaker 1: us to save the ideas of these what I would

996
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: call this constant math for a future episode, a follow

997
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: up episode. All we need to walk away with is

998
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: this for now, there does appear to be some sort

999
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: of again discernible, predictable pattern towards certain events and structures

1000
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: within this larger universe from the very very small to

1001
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: the very very large, until you get to the edges

1002
01:00:55,720 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: of experience. It seems like there's a weird symmetry to stuff.

1003
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: There's a weird sort of call and response that reality

1004
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: is making toward you. It reminds me of all the

1005
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, the old the old masters were right as above,

1006
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: so below. When Rumy says you know that which you

1007
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: seek is seeking you, it's okay. Well, now I sound

1008
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 1: like the photojournalist at the end of apocalypse now, but

1009
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: we'll keep moving on. People don't understand why these patterns exist.

1010
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 4: They do.

1011
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: The Fibonacci sequence is in everything from basic math to

1012
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: patterns of cicada lifestyle. It's very popular here in the

1013
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: US South. Scientists have learned to model and predict patterns

1014
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: and everything from fingerprints to cacti. And while the nature

1015
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: of this dilemma may not be readily apparent for everybody

1016
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: just hanging out as possible simulation, some of the world's

1017
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,439
Speaker 1: smartest people are working around the clock to figure out

1018
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: whether or not there is an essential code, some sort

1019
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: of fabric from which this universe's clothing is composed. Before

1020
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: we end, I guess we should add Bostroums totally legitimate.

1021
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: This is a very smart person working in good faith,

1022
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: and he says in his paper, which you can read

1023
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: for free online, he says, look, all the points I've

1024
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: made do not prove that we are definitely living in

1025
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: a computer simulation. Further, he says, it might be impossible

1026
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: for us to ever reach a point where we can

1027
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: build our own universes at home. It might be because

1028
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: we can't get the technology, or because there's always a possibility.

1029
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: It might mean that humans go extinct before ever reaching

1030
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: that technological point. Here's the thing, it's kind of petering out,

1031
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: are you guys? There's just Jonathan pointed this out over

1032
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: on tech stuff as well, Jonathan Strickland, There's no real

1033
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: way to disprove simulation theory. It is not what we

1034
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: call a falsifiable claim. It's a thought experiment.

1035
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 3: But like so that's one thing that I kind of

1036
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 3: held back. I guess Bostrom does he really believe this?

1037
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 3: Is he sort of being a clever, cheeky little devil

1038
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,959
Speaker 3: or like you know, sort of like do like again,

1039
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: to your point about it being a thought experiment, He's

1040
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 3: basically saying, if then if this heck is possible or

1041
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:43,959
Speaker 3: becomes possible, then it has happened. Before, but then that pause.

1042
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,479
Speaker 3: It's a whole nother kind of timey, whimy doctor who

1043
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 3: kind of scenario that also isn't really provable.

1044
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 4: I mean, like, what's his deal? Does he?

1045
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 3: Do you really think he's he believes this? Or is

1046
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 3: he just being too clever for his own good?

1047
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: I think it's it's an exploration, That's what it is.

1048
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: I don't think, I mean, clearly he's not. He and

1049
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: other people are not attempting to found religious movements based

1050
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: on this. They're not attempting God right, They're not attempting

1051
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: I was good. They're not attempting to bilk people, you know,

1052
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: And you can also the conversation continues. You can find

1053
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: plenty of work questioning this or attempting to disprove simulation

1054
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: as a concept. I think there were I can't remember

1055
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: their names. There were some physicists who looked at the

1056
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: knowable balands of classic computers and said it was impossible,

1057
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: indeed to create a computer that could simulate a universe.

1058
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: It's it's ongoing, and it's quite a high stakes exploration.

1059
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: Can't wait to hear what everyone thinks about this, But

1060
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: I want to give space one thing. Matt you've been

1061
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: kind of quiet, as Nola and I are, as he said,

1062
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: if then ing through this stuff. And I know there's

1063
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: a lot on your mind because you and I have

1064
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: talked about this for many years.

1065
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 4: What do you think.

1066
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 2: I just don't have anything to add. I looked at

1067
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: some of the latest attempts, like scientific attempts to work

1068
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 2: on this. It's not a problem to put more shed

1069
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 2: more light on these questions. Right, I'm not seeing anything

1070
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: that's blowing my mind. I always go back to the

1071
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,479
Speaker 2: work of James Gates that I remember watching a video

1072
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 2: of him a long time ago talking about these things.

1073
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 2: He referred to them as error correcting codes, and they're

1074
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 2: associated with browsers that we use to hang out on

1075
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: the Internet. And when he was studying, you know, stuff

1076
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 2: in the atomic level, quarks and those things, he at

1077
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: least in his talk back then, years and years and

1078
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 2: years ago, he was saying that he was finding error

1079
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: correcting codes very similar to the ones we use for

1080
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 2: web browsers inside like the code of the universe. Basically

1081
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 2: that was at the sub atomic level, and that always

1082
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: blew my mind. But I could never find any further

1083
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 2: information on it. I don't know I'm just at a

1084
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: point right now where I haven't seen anything that is

1085
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: making me believe it harder.

1086
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: What if this whole universe is a sponsored ad for

1087
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: some other universe, you know what I mean?

1088
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 4: What if this whole universe is an everything bagel? M m, yeah.

1089
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: What if there is source code for the universe and

1090
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: it turns out it's something like drink oval teine.

1091
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 3: Remember that movie Source Code with Jake Gillenhall was directed

1092
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 3: by David Bowie's son, Duncan Jones. It had some of

1093
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 3: these kind of themes, the idea of a simulation of

1094
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 3: like the ability to change the past, you know, time

1095
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 3: traveling stuff. But it was a little more on the

1096
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 3: simulation to But it's been a minute so I've seen.

1097
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 4: It, but I remember it being good.

1098
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1099
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 3: Well, but Matt, do you think Bostrom's being a cheeky

1100
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 3: little fella or do you think he, like.

1101
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 4: Is really believes this.

1102
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 3: That's always a big question for me, you know, And

1103
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 3: I guess with scientists it's different. With politicians usually you

1104
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 3: could go either way. But like with scientists, I'm like,

1105
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 3: is it even about belief or is he just conjecturing?

1106
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 4: He's just saying this is a possibility.

1107
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 2: It personally, it's very weird to me. I have been

1108
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 2: under the influence of substances in the past where I fully,

1109
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 2: truly thought I understood the fabric of the simulation, not

1110
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 2: of the universe, not of reality, but of the simulated,

1111
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: computer generated thing that I was living in. And I've

1112
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 2: had those real moments that I like, they stick with

1113
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: me and I think about them. But for this specific topic,

1114
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: I don't dwell on those moments because I don't like

1115
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 2: what like thinking about that further and taking the thoughts

1116
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 2: to maybe their conclusions of if we are in fact

1117
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: in a simulation like.

1118
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 4: That you're talking about monster energy drink, I assume, right.

1119
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, sure, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

1120
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 4: It'll do it.

1121
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 2: But what I mean is like that I'm sorry, just

1122
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 2: you know, That's why I've been kind of quiet, because

1123
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 2: I think about this stuff. But I'm like, I don't know,

1124
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: I don't even know if I I don't know if

1125
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 2: I personally want to explore it much further.

1126
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 4: It's scary. And we talked a little.

1127
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 3: I think we did a video recently where we all

1128
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 3: give some book recommendations, and I talked about one that

1129
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 3: I think we all appreciated called the spirit molecule about DMT,

1130
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 3: and so many DMT trip experiences have very similar results

1131
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 3: where people see these like creatures, you know, these like

1132
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 3: machine elves or whatever, and there's a lot of conjecture

1133
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 3: around that various communities that these might well be the

1134
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 3: creatures pulling the strings behind the simulation, right, I don't know, Ben,

1135
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 3: I see you kind of just see the wheels turning.

1136
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 3: Is that something that you've heard in terms of like

1137
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 3: that's a way to see through the veil into the

1138
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 3: source code, and maybe there are things that are pulling

1139
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 3: the strings that are observing us that we are not

1140
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 3: aware of.

1141
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, said that we do function on a constraint of

1142
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: linear or time and have to wrap this up because

1143
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: that is a favorite hobby horse of mine.

1144
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 4: I would.

1145
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: I know, not everyone agrees with Graham Hancock, but the

1146
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 1: guy can spin a story for sure. It goes to

1147
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: the concept of discovery. It goes to the concept of

1148
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: information being conveyed via human DNA and being able to

1149
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: interact directly with some sort of sentient force within that

1150
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 1: DNA when under the influence of certain usually psychedelic or

1151
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: who loucinogenic substances. There is so much more to the story,

1152
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad we finally got to this. I

1153
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: think this is the first of a continuing series. We

1154
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:17,520
Speaker 1: have much more to explore in the existence of numbers

1155
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: as source code for reality. But for now, you guys,

1156
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: Matt Noel, Mission Control, fellow conspiracy realist, We've got to

1157
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: call it an evening. I have become strange. I am doctificant.

1158
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: We have miles to go before we sleep. Shall we

1159
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: pass the torch to our fellow sims and see if

1160
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 1: they can solve the question of reality for us?

1161
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 3: What does sims say on their little weird language?

1162
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 4: I like that weird little things like that.

1163
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 3: I can't simulish is a thing that it's called, and

1164
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 3: I used to remember it was like David the Gnome

1165
01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 3: type language. But anyhow, please reach out to us. Let

1166
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 3: us know what your experiences of all of these things.

1167
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 3: You know, if you have any theories to add, let

1168
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 3: us know. You can find us on the internet on

1169
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 3: the platform formerly known as Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube, where

1170
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 3: we are conspiracy stuff or conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram

1171
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 3: and TikTok.

1172
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 2: Do you like using your voice? You can call us

1173
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 2: one eight three three std WYTK. It's a voicemail system.

1174
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: You got three minutes. That's it, just three minutes. Give

1175
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

1176
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 2: can use your voice and message on one of our

1177
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 2: listener mail episodes. If you don't want to do that,

1178
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

1179
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1180
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:00,839
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1181
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,479
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1182
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.