1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and speaker. 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: our careers and our families. 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life. 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: episode is airing in early January of twenty twenty six. 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: I am going to be interviewing Reverend Lauren Carratko, who 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: is an episcopal priest in suburban New York. So very 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: excited to hear from her about how she manages her 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: life and all the things she has going on. This 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: is our first episode in the new year, a couple 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: of days into the new year. But I have a question, Sarah. 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: We all know that you're a bit of a morning person. 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: Do you think you will have stayed up until midnight? 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: We're recording this in December, but do you think you 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: will have been up till midnight? On the New Year. 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: Okay, to be fair, if I were doing something really 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 2: fun that evening, or if I was at a party, 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: or even if I were with my husband and he 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: wasn't on call, I think I would stay up till midnight. 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: But as the reality has it, we cannot both take 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: both Christmas and New Year's off, and so since we 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: are traveling for Christmas, we are not work free on 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: the New Year's week, so my husband will be on call, 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: and therefore I doubt we're going to be doing anything spectacular, 31 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: and I will probably go to better on ten or eleven. 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure the kids will be up. 33 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: Though I was gonna say, don't your kids want to 34 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: stay up for midnight? 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: How to? 36 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: And they can feel free to do that, ok But 37 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: it won't keep you up. They won't be so loud 38 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: that impossible. Probably we'll hear them cheer up midnight, and 39 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: that's fine. That's fine, Okay, all right, good to know. Well, 40 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: we'll see. I've been up till midnight most years. I 41 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: believe very few that I wouldn't have been, but who knows. 42 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: Things could always be different. But I suspect my whole 43 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: family will be up till midnight. Because that's just how 44 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: things go around here. So before we get into the 45 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: interview of a portion of our show, Sarah, you just 46 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: wanted to say something for listeners. 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and we don't do this very often, but before 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: we start this episode, I just want to apologize for 49 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: something I said on a prior guest episode that a 50 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: listener alerted me to. 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: A few weeks ago. 52 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: We had been talking about fertility challenges in our intro 53 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: and I said something about being worried about a third 54 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: child coming out wrong. I use those words if I 55 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: waited too long to get pregnant. And we don't script 56 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: our episodes, and I have to hope that if I 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: had thought about what I was saying, I would not 58 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: have said that or used that language. But I did, 59 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: and I really want to apologize because not only was 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 2: it absolutely terrible language, but it was a faulty sentiment, 61 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: as we all know. And we've even talked about on 62 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: the show before and had wonderful guests sharing how every 63 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: human in this world has value and there is no 64 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: such thing as wrong. So please, if you heard that 65 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: and we're heard by it, I hope you can accept 66 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: my apology. Fresh start in the new year, Fresh start, 67 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, it's the challenges of a nonscripted show. 68 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: We say a lot of stuff and it's hard to 69 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: think through everything ahead of time. But of course we 70 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: always want to be inclusive and loving to all people, 71 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and we welcome that and we always welcome feedback. So 72 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: if you want to reach out to us, you always can. 73 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. Sarah's got her information up as well, 74 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: and so please let us know if you hear us 75 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: say something that you would like us to address. So 76 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: we're very excited to talk with Lauren. We have not 77 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: had any ministers on the show before, but there are 78 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot of women in that career and it raises 79 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: its own special challenges of managing work in life because 80 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: being a spiritual leader tends not to be a Monday 81 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: through Friday, nine to five kind of job. I have 82 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: nothing else you usually see, you know, if you're in 83 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: the Christian tradition, you tend to see people on Sunday mornings, 84 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: so they're clearly working on that day. So right there, 85 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: the schedule is different. But of course there's a lot 86 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: of things that happen all one hundred and sixty eight 87 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: hours the week when you're in this line of work. 88 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: So she's going to share what comes out of that, 89 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: and I'm excited to hear from it. So we'll hear 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: more from Reverend Lauren Karatko. So Sarah and I are 91 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: delighted to welcome Lauren Karatko to Best of Both Worlds. Lauren, 92 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. 93 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I'm such 94 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 3: a fan. 95 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we're really excited to have you too. Why 96 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. 97 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 3: I'm Lauren Karatko. I'm an Episcopal priest. That means I 98 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: am a Christian minister, and I am a mother. I 99 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: have three boys, ages six, ten, and twelve. I'm a wife. 100 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 3: My husband's also a priest, and we both work full 101 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: time and we live in the suburbs of New York City. 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: Awesome, And I'm sure everyone's listening to this, like, well, 103 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: we have not had an episcopal priest on the show before. 104 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: How did you wind up in this line of work? 105 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: I felt called by God. It is that simple. When 106 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: I was in college, I was can I tell my 107 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 3: calls for you? All right? 108 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: We'd love to help me grief. 109 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 3: I promise it's okay. When I was in college, I 110 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: felt called by God to become a priest. So what 111 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,559 Speaker 3: that means is I was worshiping in church on Sunday morning, 112 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 3: and I just had this vision of the priesthood, which 113 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 3: is kind of funny because I thought I wanted to 114 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 3: be a doctor, but I hate the sight of blood. 115 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: This is not ever going to work out. And so 116 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: I called my mom. My Mom and I are really close. 117 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 3: I was in Memphis, Tennessee. She was in Montgomery, Alabama, 118 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: and I called her and I said, Mom, Mom, I 119 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: have something I have to tell you, and she said 120 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: I do, but she's a really good mom, so she 121 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 3: let me go first. And so she let me go first, 122 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 3: and I said, I feel called to be a priest. 123 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 3: And mind you, I'd never seen a woman priest at 124 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: that point in my life. And she starts sobbing, and 125 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: I thought that I was in so much trouble because 126 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 3: I wasn't becoming a doctor. But the reason she was 127 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 3: sobbing was she had been praying in her church that morning, 128 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: five hours away, and she opened her prayer book and 129 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: a piece of stationery from my job that summer was 130 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: on the page of the ordination to the priesthood, isn't 131 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: that cool? 132 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 1: Well, that sounds fairly divine. 133 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: Then it felt like it was meant to be. So 134 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 3: that's where we go. And I'm a very practical person, 135 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: so I did lots of internships and all that kind 136 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 3: of stuff throughout college to see if this is really 137 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: what I wanted to do. And now I've been here. 138 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: I celebrate the twentieth anniversary of my priesthood this week, 139 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: so I've been a priest for twenty years. 140 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: That is amazing. And like you said, you had not 141 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: seen a woman priest before, and in the Episcopal Church 142 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: there are ordained women. It's one of the denominations that 143 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: does that. But it's still not terribly common, right, Well. 144 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: It depends on where you live and what region you're in. 145 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: I think pretty much everywhere in the United States at 146 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: this point you would see women priests. But where I was. 147 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: I'm from Montgomery, Alabama, and I had not seen them 148 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: at that point in the late nineties, and there probably 149 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: were to be fair Episcopal priest in Alabama at that time. 150 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 3: I just didn't know them. But now I've seen many 151 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: priests And a fun tagline for our story is that 152 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: later after I went to seminary. My mom also went 153 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 3: to seminary and became a priest, has lived out her 154 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: ministry and is now retired and doing what we might 155 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: call other duties as a sign back in our home 156 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: Diocesis of Alabama. 157 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: That's amazing. I love that you both felt called to 158 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: do this. 159 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 3: Well. 160 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: So, I mean obviously said you did internships after you 161 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: had this revelation that you wanted to go into the priesthood. 162 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: What is the training actually like for someone going into 163 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: church leadership and spiritual leadership like this? 164 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: Oh? What a good question. Okay, So it's different for 165 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: every single diocese, a dioceses of region. So right now 166 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: I'm in the Diocese of New York, which goes up 167 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: towards what you might think of as upstate New York, 168 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 3: but not all the way and into Manhattan. But Long 169 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: Island is another diocese. So each diocese has different sets 170 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: of rules and where I came from in the Diocese 171 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 3: of Alabama, we needed to spend time discerning which is 172 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: prayerfully considering your vocation with a priest for about six months, 173 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 3: and then we went to a commission on the diocesan 174 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 3: level of folks it's called the Commission on Ministry of 175 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: folks who listened for that call to hear where God 176 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: was active and present in my life, just see if 177 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: I might be a good fit. The other thing they 178 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: do is we have pretty extensive psychological, physical background checks, 179 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 3: all of those kind of things to make sure that 180 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: we are going to be as healthy as they can 181 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: guess on the front end before we go out into 182 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: the ministry. And then I went to seminary for three years. 183 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 3: I have a master's in Divinity from Virginia Seminary, and 184 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: that's actually where I met my husband, who is again 185 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 3: there's three priests in my family. My husband's one. Two. 186 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: Well, I imagine that I know other industries where you 187 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: have two people who are in the same industry. Sometimes 188 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: it can be hard to find a place where both 189 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of you can do. I mean, whether it's like matching 190 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: both as a physician, or if you're both professors or 191 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: something like that. So how on earth did you guys 192 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: go on the job market for finding churches to lead 193 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: as both priests? 194 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely well, in the Episcopal Church, we're essentially free agents, 195 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 3: so we get to apply for jobs and see if 196 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: we might match with the congregation. And what we have 197 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: chosen to do is live in major cities, so like 198 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: right now we're outside of New York. I'm rector of 199 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: Grace Church, which is this wonderful, progressive, eighty family church 200 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 3: that I'm sure we'll talk about in a little bit. 201 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: And my husband is the episcopal chaplaine and Religious Life 202 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: Advisor at Columbia University and also does many other duties 203 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: as assigned. But what that means is he works for 204 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 3: the diocese kind of the governing body, and I work 205 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: for a parish. So we didn't have to find two 206 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 3: churches open at the exact same time in. 207 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: The same area, yes, which could be challenging for sure. 208 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: So art Yeah, And when in the of course of 209 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: all this you start your family, then, was that while 210 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: you were at your current church or in a different role. 211 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: No, it was in a different role, So we started 212 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: our family. He wrote his PhD in theology at Emory 213 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: and so we lived there in oh, gosh, I'm not 214 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 3: going to get the dates right, but a dozen years ago, 215 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 3: and we decided it was time to start the family. 216 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: So I was the associate rector, so that means I 217 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: was not the head of the church. The second or 218 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: third or fourth in command, depending on how our churches. 219 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: I was at that parish and we got to have 220 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: both our older two children in Atlanta. They're only two 221 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: years apart. And then we moved to New York for 222 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 3: his job and I was job searching, and that's when 223 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 3: we had our third. 224 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: Awesome. 225 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: So one amazing thing about Grace Church is that they 226 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: hired me when I was six months pregnant, and one 227 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: of the leaders at the time said, maternity leave is 228 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: short and rectors are long, and I wish that we 229 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 3: had more of a vision for that, that maternity leave 230 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: is important, or parental leave in general is important, but 231 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 3: it's not that long in the scope of years that 232 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 3: we are in jobs. 233 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that you're better off waiting a couple months for 234 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: the right candidate to be ready than to pass on 235 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the right candidate just because she's in the in the 236 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: middle of growing her family. Well, that's a good point 237 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: to take our first ad break on. So we'll be 238 00:11:51,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: back in just a minute with more from Lauren correctco. Well, 239 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: I am back talking with Lauren Kratko, who is an 240 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: episcopal priest in suburban New York. So, Lauren, this is 241 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: perhaps obvious for our listeners who are part of faith communities. 242 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: But being a minister is not exactly a nine to 243 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: five Monday through Friday job. I mean, one obvious difference, 244 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: you're working on Sunday morning. So maybe you could talk 245 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: a little bit about what the schedule looks like for you. 246 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely no week, is the saying, that's for sure. We 247 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: have most clergy I would assume have pretty sporadic schedules, 248 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: but I do work full time. I have a brother 249 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: in Alabama that always, if he calls me on a 250 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 3: Monday afternoon, is like, what are you doing? You only 251 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: work on Sunday, But of course he knows that I 252 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: work other hours than that. So what I tend to do. Actually, Laura, 253 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: your book was so helpful to me when you were 254 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: telling us about split shifting, and I know how she 255 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 3: does it. I didn't realize that I had been doing 256 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: it until I saw myself in your words. But what 257 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: I tend to do is work Monday to Thursday while 258 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: my children are in school. So that's essentially I drop 259 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: them off at seven forty five and I work until 260 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: write at like two fifty to fifty five, and I'll 261 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 3: run over and pick them up from carpool, and that's 262 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 3: when I tend to schedule most of my meetings if 263 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 3: I know that it's a scheduled meeting with someone that 264 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 3: has some flexibility, and then my church doesn't need me 265 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: to be a priest generally from about three to six, 266 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 3: so I'm mom a lot during that time. I'm running 267 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: kids to different sports, I'm taking them to therapy, I'm 268 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: taking them wherever it is they need to go, and 269 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: I'm helping with dinner. And then my husband comes in 270 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 3: from the city and we eat dinner together and then 271 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: we trade off. He takes the kids and kind of 272 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 3: does the night, the bedtime, all of those good activities. 273 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: And that's when churches often have committee meetings, right so 274 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: the property committee would meet or the governing body would meet, 275 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: and I meet with them in the evenings. So that's 276 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 3: generally what my schedule looks like. But I feel like 277 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 3: I've left off the fun part, which is the priest thing. 278 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 3: I get to meet with people. I care so much 279 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 3: about what is going on in people's life, to hear 280 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: about their journeys with God, but also what's going on 281 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 3: with them with their kids. A lot of parents right 282 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 3: now are dealing with that sort of sandwich generation of 283 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: taking care of their parents and also taking care of 284 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 3: their kids. So I have a lot of meetings about that. 285 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you generally have then your schedule b 286 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: sort of Sunday through Thursday is roughly what you do. 287 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's probably at hoc stuff that happens 288 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: on Friday and Saturday as well, but that's generally your schedule. 289 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: Yes, Friday is both my and my husband's day off, 290 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: and which are really hard to take our days off 291 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: and not check our email and do all those things. Yeah, 292 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 3: so yeah, and then Saturday is often kids' activities, but 293 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: also sometimes there are events with the parish that I 294 00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: do then. 295 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: And I'm curious. I mean, now, I'll see all your 296 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: kids are in school and so you have sort of 297 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: that dedicated time. But when they were littler and you 298 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: both had jobs in ministry or in training, how did 299 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: you guys work out childcare? 300 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 3: Then we were so lucky. We had full time daycare 301 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 3: with all three of our children, and so they were 302 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: at the Clifton School at Emory and then here there's 303 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: a Goddard School, So our youngest was in a Goddard school, 304 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: so that was full day daycare, and then we have 305 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: a lot. Right now, I have a very long text 306 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 3: group of great high schoolers that baby said, our boys 307 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: at all kinds of times. So they are wonderful and 308 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 3: happy to jump in and help us out. 309 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: Oh wonderful. That's great to takes a village. And I 310 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: think one thing, you actually live on the church property, right, 311 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: so that makes at least commuting slightly less of a 312 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: thing in your life. 313 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: It's true. I'm giggling because Laura and I did a 314 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 3: time study together and she saw how many times I 315 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 3: was letting the dog out at six forty five or 316 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: seven fifteen in the morning talking to a church member. Yes, 317 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: our house is directly in the middle of the campus. 318 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: The church is on one side in the parish hall, 319 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: which is where we have a preschool, a counseling center, 320 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: and also our church offices is on the other side. 321 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: So my commute is very short. But it does mean 322 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 3: that anytime I walk out of the house, I'm kind 323 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 3: of on and working. 324 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: You could be found at any time. You've got to 325 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: be careful walking out the door. 326 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 3: Sure, it's true. I do spend some Fridays I try 327 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: really hard at least once some months to go off 328 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: campus and just go wander, wander around New York City, 329 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: go do some errands, do things that are away from 330 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: campus to help me not work. 331 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you mentioned that you had tracked your time 332 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: for me, which is true. I got to see Lauren's 333 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: time logs recently. What was the experience like of tracking 334 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: your time? Was it revelatory in any way? 335 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: Oh? My gosh, I loved it. Part of what was 336 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: nice was I got to see some of the goals 337 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: that I had set in the past become real. A 338 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 3: couple of years ago, I set a goal of spending 339 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: more time with my friends. I think all of us 340 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 3: have friends, but sometimes don't get to be in touch 341 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: with them as much as we liked. And the week 342 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 3: at time track for you, I got to go to 343 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 3: a baseball game with one of my friends. And then 344 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 3: it happened to be the week of our anniversary. So 345 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: another goal had been scheduling regular date nights, and so 346 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 3: we also had a date night. And it felt kind 347 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 3: of victorious to be like, yes, these are things we 348 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: tried to do and they are actually happening. So that 349 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 3: was really good. And then also work wise, when I timetracked, 350 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: I spent time tracking exactly what I was doing for 351 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: my job. Was I doing administrative stuff for my job? 352 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 3: Was I doing past full stuff for my job? Or 353 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: was I doing property maintenance which was a pain point 354 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 3: for me at the time. And so, Laura, you were 355 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 3: so helpful in helping me see how much time I 356 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: was spending on property rate notes, and also you and 357 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: the group at Besley Plans Live helped me come up 358 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 3: with some good suggestions for that. 359 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Lauren shared her schedule. She was an attendee 360 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: at Bestlaid Plans Live. Sarah and I discussed our retreat 361 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: a couple weeks ago on the show and how much 362 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: fun we had with that. But yeah, I mean some 363 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: of the cool things we saw you were doing, like 364 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: walking meetings with people, that's I mean, a great way 365 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: to multitask. And you also figured out kind of looking 366 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: forward to the week when you could do things like that. 367 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that was one of the things I really 368 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 3: wanted to do was move more. I had done a 369 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 3: really good job of building yoga into my schedule by 370 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 3: waking up early, but I couldnt figure out where to 371 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: get in walking, and so I realized, through your guys's help, 372 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 3: if I in my weekly planning, looked at next week 373 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 3: and said, oh, I'm meeting with the rabbi next week. 374 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: We don't need to sit and have a cup of coffee. 375 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 3: We could go for a walk. That was a helpful 376 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 3: way to do it, and that's actually become something that 377 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: I'm doing with my congregation every Sunday morning at church. 378 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 3: I say, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome any guests 379 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 3: or visitors, and then I say, if you would like 380 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: to join me for a walk on the aqueduct, which 381 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 3: is the walking path near us, or a cup of tea, 382 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear what's going on in your life. 383 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: And I cannot tell you how many folks have taken 384 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: me up on that. So now it's like we have 385 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: a whole church full of people that are walking on 386 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: the walking path. Now it's really fun. 387 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Well, what a great way to get more exercise into 388 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: your life. And I mean maybe make even the whole 389 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: congregation a little bit more healthy as well. Right, we're 390 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: all everyone's getting up and moving. But yeah, one of 391 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: the things we saw in your log is that you 392 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: are spending a lot of time on property management. I mean, 393 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: some of this just comes with the territory. It's a 394 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: small church. You're the only full time employee, right, I 395 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: mean it's going to fall to you. 396 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So we ended up realizing we 397 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: were so lucky. We got a grant, and the grant 398 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 3: the parish hall building got to be the inside got 399 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: to be repainted and recarpeted, which was wonderful. But when 400 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 3: that happened, we saw that our furniture was perhaps long 401 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: many many years past its best by date, and so 402 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 3: we ordered somebny furniture. And I had made announcements in 403 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: church and even put it in our weekly email to 404 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 3: see if folks would help me put the furniture together, which, 405 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: of course you'd think, yeah, of course someone would sign 406 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 3: up and they would come help and that. But everyone 407 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: else is busy too, and so it ended up I 408 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 3: spent something crazy like ten hours the week that I 409 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: was time logging putting together furniture. But what was helpful 410 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: about that was I was able to say the governing 411 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 3: body of the church, like, obviously, guys, this is not 412 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 3: a great use of my time. And so we were 413 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 3: able to find someone that we could pay a handy 414 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 3: person to do some of those tasks. Going forward. So again, 415 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: timelog very helpful. 416 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: Timelog very important, But I think that was sort of 417 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: a subset of because then you kept track of a 418 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: second week, and obviously it didn't have to assemble a 419 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: whole new pack of I can't furniture second week. But 420 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: you are also spending a lot of time on administrative work, 421 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: which again is not necessarily the spiritual leadership of your community. 422 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And so in the Episcopal church 423 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 3: there are different roles, and if your role is called director, 424 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: that means you're the head of a congregation. And so 425 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 3: of course I am aware that being a rector means 426 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 3: I have administrative work to do, but also being the 427 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: only full time employee meant I had more than my 428 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: fair share of administrative work to do. And so through 429 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: time longing, I was able to see how many hours 430 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: I spent that particular week with sort of big administrative 431 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: projects that needed to get done preparing for our annual meeting, 432 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: for example, that's a once a year kind of thing. 433 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 3: But I worked with you guys to figure out how 434 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 3: to kind of plan for the unexpected and build in 435 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 3: time blocks. If I can look ahead and see, oh, 436 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: the annual meetings coming up. I'm going to need multiple 437 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 3: hours for admin next week. Then maybe schedule fewer walks. 438 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: That's so good. I have time to get that duck. 439 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, looking ahead is always good. When do you do 440 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: your weekly planning? I know you don't work on Fridays, 441 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: so when do you do it? 442 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 3: It's true, Well, so you used to say Friday afternoon, 443 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 3: but Friday's my day off, So I do Thursday afternoon, 444 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 3: which I think means we plan the same afternoon at 445 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: this point. 446 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: Yep, I've kind of shifted as well. 447 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: I have not perfected Laura's method of two weekends, like 448 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 3: where you loosely plan and tightly plan. I can only 449 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 3: do about one week in advance. 450 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: So well, that sounds good. That's good enough to at 451 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: least be planning a little bit ahead. Well, we're going 452 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: to take one more quick ad break and then i'll 453 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: be back with more from Lauren. Well, I am back 454 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: talking with Lauren Carotco, who is an episcopal priest in 455 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: suburban New York. So we've been talking her schedule and 456 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: so Lauren, I mean, I'm sure you are thinking of 457 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: upcoming weekends, not just the immediate one, And partly because 458 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: you're planning services for upcoming weekends. When do you wind 459 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: up doing things like that, I mean planning through upcoming sermons, 460 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: upcoming service things that you need to do. 461 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, I try to set a time block on my 462 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: calendar about once a month to do some of that 463 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 3: sort of bigger thinking ahead visioning. In the Episcopal Church, 464 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: we work off of the church calendar, which has seasons. 465 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 3: So right now we're in the season of Advent. So 466 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: I did some preparing. Advent is the time where we 467 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 3: prepare for the coming of Christ, and so I did 468 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 3: some time thinking through what would be some preparatory things 469 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 3: that we could do together as a congregation. I did 470 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 3: that about a month ago. We're now looking forward to 471 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 3: Christmas and then, which is great fun. We have a 472 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: children's Christmas play where the kids get to pick their 473 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: own roles. So some years we have two Mary's and 474 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 3: no Josephs. Some years we have way too many sheep 475 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: and no shepherds. But we do what the kids wants 476 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 3: to do because it gives them some empowering. They learn 477 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 3: the story better if they're doing something that they want 478 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 3: to be a part of. So right now we're in 479 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 3: the thick of Christmas. Planning getting ready for Christmas Eve services, 480 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: and then in January with our staff, we'll do all 481 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: longer look ahead for the rest like that whole essentially 482 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: semester January till June, and then in Jane we'll do 483 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 3: the fall semester as well. So we kind of plan 484 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 3: a semester at a time at our church. 485 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha? And how about time for your own sort 486 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: of reflective time, your own spirituality. I know that probably 487 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: filling that well is something that you obviously have to 488 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: make space for in your line of work. And yet 489 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: you're as busy as anyone else. You're busy running your 490 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: church and raising your family. How do you protect time 491 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: for that? 492 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, for myself, I love yoga. I definitely do yoga 493 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 3: three days a week and more if I can, And 494 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: so that's I wake up earth earlier than the rest 495 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: of my family. So I can do that, and I 496 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 3: use that time to meditate, check in, connect my body 497 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 3: back to my brain because sometimes that doesn't happen so well. 498 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 3: But a practice that I have that helps me stay 499 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 3: connected to my prayer life is actually when I finally 500 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 3: make it into my desk. So who knows what time 501 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 3: that could be in the Episcopal Church, we have what's 502 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: called the Daily Office, where we can pray different prayers 503 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 3: throughout the day, and there's these wonderful resource called daily 504 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 3: devotions for families. And it's like two to three minutes long. 505 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 3: It's very brief. But when I get to my desk, 506 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 3: if it's morning, I do morning daily devotions, if it's lunchtime, 507 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 3: I do noon. It's the afternoon, I do the afternoon 508 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: daily devotions. And during those daily devotions, it's a piece 509 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 3: of scripture. It is we get to say our own 510 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: prayers and a thing that I added in gosh, it's 511 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 3: probably been it was my church in Atlanta that I 512 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: started doing this, so gosh, maybe a dozen years ago. 513 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 3: They're particular people that I'm praying for, I actually stop 514 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 3: right then and I write them an email, send them 515 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 3: a text. Sometimes I call them right in the midst 516 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 3: of that prayer time to check in on them right then, 517 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 3: because I'm afraid I'll forget if I don't do it 518 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 3: right then. And so that has been a way that 519 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: I've been able to both connect my own prayer life 520 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: but also connect back to the people of God. 521 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: I love it. That's a wonderful practice. And doesn't take 522 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: that much time. 523 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: I mean, it's very brief and anyone can do it. 524 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 3: You don't have to be a priest to pray daily 525 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 3: devotions or to call people when you're thinking about them 526 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 3: or send them a text to check on them. 527 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Lauren asks. We always have our Love of 528 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: the Week, which is something we do on this show, 529 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: and I can go first. We're recording this in December, 530 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: even though I think it's airing in January. But I 531 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: always love the idea of stretching out Christmas celebrations into January. 532 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: I know the twelve days of Christmas are in fact 533 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: starting after Christmas and going through Epiphany and early January, 534 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: and that was when all this was supposed to be 535 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: celebrated afterwards with Advent before. But I always loved the 536 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: idea of like looking at Christmas lights in January or 537 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: having a holiday party in early January. It just makes 538 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: it a little more fun. How about you, Oh my gosh, 539 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: I love that. 540 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 3: Yes, there are twelve days of Christmas that start on 541 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 3: Christmas and go all the way to write before the Epiphany, 542 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: which is January sixth, So at our household, we definitely 543 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 3: leave up our Christmas tree all the way through our 544 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 3: is this the last said tree on the street when 545 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: they go out to the curb, so one of those 546 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 3: I wasn't going to do this for my love of 547 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: the week, but related to Christmas, I really really enjoy 548 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 3: our Christmas tree has beautiful ornaments that have been given 549 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 3: us to us as gifts, but it also has like 550 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 3: every preschool handmade craft that the kids ever did. And 551 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 3: there's just this beautiful moment of like unboxing all of 552 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 3: that and the glimmer in their eyes of how exciting 553 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 3: that is. So I realized that it's not like the 554 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 3: most beautiful southern living Christmas tree that could ever exist. 555 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: That's my mom's tree. It is stunning. But ours is 556 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: covered in like handmade paper products and things that are 557 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 3: like losing all their eyes. 558 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: That's wonderful. Well, this is why I got two Christmas trees, 559 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: so I can have my fancy one that looks like 560 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: out of the magazine, and I have the one that's 561 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: covered in handprints ornaments. 562 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 3: Brilliant, brilliant. I do not have too, but I like 563 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: that a lot. 564 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: Can I say my lesson so we can see your 565 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: second love of the week. This is great. 566 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 3: So I'm sorry listeners because you're gonna hear this in 567 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 3: January and it will be too late. But because my 568 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 3: family is a two priest household, you can imagine that 569 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 3: Christmas is really busy for us. So we decided when 570 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 3: we had our first kid twelve years ago that we 571 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 3: were going to make a big deal of the season 572 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 3: of Advent, that season where we're getting ready for Jesus. 573 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 3: And so it started out just as like, there's four candles, 574 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 3: and you light a candle each week. So by the 575 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: third week you've got three candleslit, and we would sing 576 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 3: a little verse of O Come, O Come Emmanuel. So 577 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: our kids keep adding on to this, and so now 578 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 3: we do a very big advent because every year they've 579 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: added like some other little something, and so this year's 580 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: Advent is beautifully extreme in. 581 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 4: That we light the candles, we sing the song, we 582 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 4: ask them the advent question. We always ask them, which 583 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 4: is what have you done to prepare for Christ this 584 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: week or this day? 585 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: Or what are you doing to wait? Because that's another 586 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 3: thing we practice an advent. But then they have added 587 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 3: like every advent calendar named Man, so there's like a 588 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 3: cartoon one that's really hilarious. Our youngest has a Lego. 589 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: I'm sure you guys have seen those Lego Advent calendars. 590 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 3: Our middle one has the bone mamong Advent jams, which 591 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 3: are incredible. This is not like an ad but they're great. 592 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 3: And then our oldest has a joke book of dad 593 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: jokes for Advan and so our Advent, which she used 594 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 3: to be like maybe forty five seconds to a minute, 595 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: is now like maybe ten minutes. And then we do 596 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 3: end with the very traditional chocolate. 597 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, of course you gotta have the chocolate. 598 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking they were maybe coming up with new 599 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: verses to ocmo comma Manuel. I'm like, it's long enough 600 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: as it is, so I know there's an eighth verson o. No, 601 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: there's seven. There's seven verses, but you know I would not. 602 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: Put it past them. 603 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: Laura, you have to sing all of them. 604 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: Great. I love it. 605 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: I love it absolutely well. Lauren, thank you so much 606 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: for joining us. I really appreciate it. 607 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 3: Oh, Laura, thank you so much for having me and 608 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 3: Sarah too. Y'all take care, thank you, well, we are back. 609 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: That was great hearing from Lauren Corretco. But her life 610 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: as an episcopal priest, how she manages all the different 611 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 3: moving parts. 612 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: Of her life. So, Sarah, this question, maybe you can 613 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: start on this one since this came to you. So 614 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: one of our listeners was listening to the Afford Anything 615 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: podcast and wanted to ask because the son had been 616 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: talking about various personality tests and aptitude tests like Enneagram chronotype, 617 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: something called the Vander Index, which I am personally excited about. 618 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: But she said, what type of you know? It's all about, 619 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: like what kind of person you are within these various frameworks. 620 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: So she says, I'm guessing you are both going to 621 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: have strong takes on these types of tests. Which one 622 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: is ring true and which ones are horoscopically vague. How 623 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: do the results change for who are at work versus 624 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: who you are at family and elsewhere? What takeaways in 625 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: life tweaks can be gleaned from these tests. Do you 626 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: think they're overused or overinterpreted or what? Sarah, what do 627 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: you think? Yeah? 628 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that I have a huge 629 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 2: hot take on these tests because I think maybe I'm 630 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: a little bit middle of the road. I don't think 631 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 2: they're dumb, and I don't think they're the end all 632 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: be all. I think they're fun and can be food 633 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: for thought as well. I guess I hope they're not 634 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: used to like deny people a job or something life 635 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: altering like that. Yet I've had some really fun and 636 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: interesting conversations around some of these categories. And I will 637 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,479 Speaker 2: say that chronotype was mentioned, which is like whether you're 638 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: an early bird or late person. Definitely some natural biologic 639 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 2: truths to that one in my experience as a very 640 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: early person, and that does impact my life. And I 641 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: am a big fan of Gretchen Rubens four tendencies framework, 642 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: which is like how you respond to inner and outer expectations. 643 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: Not as necessarily a validated scientific tool, but it just 644 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: a really interesting lens to view how people make decisions 645 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: and response to different types of influences. I also find 646 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: Myers Briggs fascinating. Laura can share that she has a 647 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: rare Myers Briggs that my husband also has. So what 648 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: does that say about me? 649 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 3: Is my question? 650 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: That I'm just close to all these rare birds in 651 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: the world. And my last thought is that enneagram sounds 652 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: so interesting but too confusing for me. 653 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are too many types. They needed to come 654 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: up with a smaller number of types if they wanted 655 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: us to use that one. Yeah, I think like anything else. 656 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: If you find them interesting or helpful for figuring out 657 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: how to best lift your life like great, or how 658 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: to understand others in your life, then awesome. Again, some 659 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: of this is not particularly scientifically validated, and it would 660 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: be sad if somebody was revealed to be an introvert 661 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: on Meyer's Briggs and was then denied a job because 662 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: somebody said you have to interact with other people. It's like, well, 663 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: introverts can do that, Like that would be a misunderstanding 664 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: of how this all plays out. I am apparently an 665 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: ij which is also what Josh is, and there are 666 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: few people in that category, very few women, as it 667 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: turns out, But that maybe explains a few things to 668 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: go figure. 669 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 2: Well, I love it, and I have a college bestie 670 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: who is the same as well, So I apparently attract 671 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: you guys like flies and cool with Yeah. 672 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll all migreat to say. She keeps us 673 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: even keeled with our weird tendencies come out too far 674 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: or you know, even with the Gretchen Ruben when it's funny, 675 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: because I would be an upholder in the rubric I believe, however, 676 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: I am such a strong question or rising if you're 677 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: going to do like with the horoscope things, because I 678 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: look at this and I'm like, well, where's the validity 679 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: of all of this? Right, so you know, we could 680 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: maybe be both. 681 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: That's your IMTJ coming out, that's my high DJ coming out. 682 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: So anyway, Yeah, we think if it's useful for you, great, 683 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: if you find this fun, you know, or if you 684 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: like want to understand why your spouse or friend or 685 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: colleague acts a certain way and this provides some insight 686 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: and helps you have a better relationship. Amazing. Let's make 687 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: sure it's not used for anything too important. High stakes, right, yeah, 688 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: high stakes? Yes, exactly. Well, this has been best of 689 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: both worlds. I've been talking with Reverend Lauren. We will 690 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: be back next week with more on making work and 691 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: life fit together. Thanks for listening. 692 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 693 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 2: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can. 694 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 695 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 696 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.