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Speaker 1: Hello listeners. Before we get into this episode, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to say something to raise awareness about a particular current event.

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Speaker 1: Our guest Ali Noddy speaks about this at the end

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Speaker 1: of the episode, but we wanted to stick it here

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Speaker 1: at the top as well to make sure as many

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Speaker 1: people here about it as possible. Right now, in Canada,

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Speaker 1: in Winnipeg, police are refusing to search for the remains

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Speaker 1: of four Indigenous women who have been murdered by a

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Speaker 1: serial killer. The women are Morgan Harris, Rebecca Countois, Marcedes Myron,

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Speaker 1: and a fourth unidentified woman. This speaks to the pervasive

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Speaker 1: problem in Canada and elsewhere in the world of Indigenous

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Speaker 1: women going missing, being murdered, and officials doing little to

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Speaker 1: nothing about it. So we wanted to raise awareness about this.

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Speaker 1: We've included more information in the show notes, and we

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Speaker 1: encourage you to learn more about this and other issues

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Speaker 1: that affect Indigenous people and communities. All right onto the episode.

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Speaker 1: On the be Dol cast, the questions asked movies have

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Speaker 1: women inum? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Jamie Yes I

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Speaker 1: see you, Caitlin, I see you. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: mate for life with me? Yeah? Where's your tail at?

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Speaker 1: Here is great to come and then we kiss Kis

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Speaker 1: kiss under the tree, iconic moment in cinema for better

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Speaker 1: or worse. People remember it, they really do. Hello and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Beck Dol cast. Oh my goodness. Here's

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Speaker 1: one that has been a long time request, a long

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Speaker 1: time coming, and an episode we thought we may never

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Speaker 1: release because we were not convinced that the sequels are

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Speaker 1: actually going to come out. And yet here we are,

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Speaker 1: and here we are the Avatar episode. How you feeling, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: I'm nervous. I feel underprepared. Even though I did a

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Speaker 1: lot of reading. There's truly so much to go through.

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Speaker 1: And there's also like, there's like fifteen years worth of production, criticism,

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Speaker 1: waves of different takes on this. But it's just been

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Speaker 1: it's been a real journey, it really has, and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to get into it. We have. I think I

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Speaker 1: think we should just get started. I'm like, I'm ready,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready. You can breeze. Let's just breeze past. Look

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Speaker 1: the show we analyze movies, but you know, figure, let's

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Speaker 1: tell it must tell him. Let's tell him. Okay, um like,

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Speaker 1: you're like fun this show. We're gonna be here for

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Speaker 1: three hours. Buckle In um So analyzed movies through an

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Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel tests simply as just

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Speaker 1: a baseline jumping off point to initiate a much larger conversation.

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Speaker 1: What is the Bechtel test? Though Jamie Well I can

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Speaker 1: tell you what it is. It is a media metric

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Speaker 1: originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace Test. Uh. She made it for her incredible

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Speaker 1: comic dikes to watch out for, originally as a joke,

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Speaker 1: but it is now kind of become a common media

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Speaker 1: metric that we use on this show and also in

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Speaker 1: the world. A lot of different versions of the test,

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Speaker 1: but the one we use is this. To pass the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel test, there must be two characters with names of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender talking to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man for more than two lines of dialogue.

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Speaker 1: Some things do it, a lot of things don't. And

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Speaker 1: that's just kind of what it is. How did how

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Speaker 1: did I do so well? We're off to a great start,

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Speaker 1: and now is the time to get our guest into

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Speaker 1: the mix. I'm so pumped returning guest. You know her

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Speaker 1: from our episodes on Aquaman and Frozen two. She's an

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Speaker 1: Anisha Nabe, writer, founder of the Ali Naughty Test formerly

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Speaker 1: known as the Ala Test. It's Ali Naughty, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: I'm back with my braided tails. Hell yeah, I got

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Speaker 1: one for each of you. Welcome to the Three Timers Club.

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Speaker 1: I told them I was like, I called DIBs on Avatar.

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Speaker 1: Nobody else is allowed to do this. I have so

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Speaker 1: much to say, and yes I did. You saw my

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Speaker 1: Google doc had so much to say. I've seen forty

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Speaker 1: two page google doc. I'm so we talked about this, uh,

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Speaker 1: I think two years ago, like the first time you

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Speaker 1: were on the show. En. Yeah, and the moment is here.

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Speaker 1: Avatar two is come out. It's happening. I thought it

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Speaker 1: would never happen, and it probably shouldn't happen. But we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I hope it's good. James Cameron's pretty good with sequels,

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Speaker 1: so we'll see. We'll see. That's true. Titanic too is

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Speaker 1: a classic. Ever when he came back, when she woke up,

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Speaker 1: she woke up? Yeah, So Ali, what is your your

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Speaker 1: history relationship with Avatar? Oh so this is a history. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So it came out like two thousand nine. I want

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Speaker 1: to say I was probably around like eighteen nineteen ish,

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Speaker 1: and it came out at an interesting time. This is

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Speaker 1: obviously way before the Ali Naughty Test. The Alt Test

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Speaker 1: was ever a discussion the way that it is now

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Speaker 1: and the film itself was cathartic in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways for me that I've discovered that it really isn't now,

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Speaker 1: But at the time in two thousand nine, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that there's a movie like this. As

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Speaker 1: far as the Natives win, which I didn't see coming.

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Speaker 1: Everybody else saw it coming. I'm like, no, we never win.

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Speaker 1: Like this is gonna be Titanic level sadness because everybody's

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Speaker 1: gonna die and it's pain, and that didn't happen. I

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Speaker 1: did not expect the girl to live. Nay Terry did

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Speaker 1: not expect that. I didn't expect her to like because

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Speaker 1: and and I'll talk about this later, but like in

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Speaker 1: a lot of movies, when the native female character falls

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Speaker 1: in love with the white male character and he ultimately

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Speaker 1: ends up betraying her, she usually like takes his side

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Speaker 1: like no, no, I love him and we can work together.

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Speaker 1: And I was hoping that that wouldn't happen. I was

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Speaker 1: afraid it was going to happen. It did not happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, what is this movie? Right? So then

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Speaker 1: I get online and so many people like hated it,

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Speaker 1: just did not like it. They're like, it's pocahontast space,

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Speaker 1: it stands as with wolves in space. It's white guilt,

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Speaker 1: it's liberalism, it's you know, just all of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I knew something in it was kind of rooted

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Speaker 1: in anti Native racism. I just didn't have the words

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Speaker 1: for it. And obviously, like as the years have gone by,

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Speaker 1: I found the language to like kind of point out

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Speaker 1: what exactly like these criticisms which aren't wronged but also

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Speaker 1: are very yes. So then I almost kind of like

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Speaker 1: the Avatar out of spite in a way, just because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, screw you, guys. I like this movie. But

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest, after rewatching it and especially rewatching it now,

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Speaker 1: I didn't like it as much. And I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know everything that's kind of I know everything that's

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Speaker 1: wrong with it, but I still liked it. In spite

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Speaker 1: of it. But I'm like, you know, after Rhymes three

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Speaker 1: Young Gules and Reservation Dogs and Rutherford Falls and Wendell

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Speaker 1: and Wild and all of these indigenous films usually made

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Speaker 1: by indigenous people. Um, I say with full confidence that

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Speaker 1: if Native creators were given the same the same amount

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Speaker 1: of power and opportunity as James Cameron, they could do

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Speaker 1: it just as good, if not better than. Avatar would

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Speaker 1: probably be something you'd never see before, right, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what I think. Yeah, I mean absolutely, it's always where

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Speaker 1: does the money go and who gets the opportunities? Yes,

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Speaker 1: exactly that. So that's my very complicated history with Avatar.

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Speaker 1: I love it, Jamie, what about you? What's yours? It's

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Speaker 1: a disaster kind of it's all over the place of

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Speaker 1: like I feel like you've been witnessed to it, and

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Speaker 1: in large part, Caitlin, like, I saw this movie in

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Speaker 1: high school, um, along with I think the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world. It seems like I saw this movie in

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Speaker 1: three D. I remember, Like I just wasn't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess like people don't maybe because the show has

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Speaker 1: been on for so long, like I was originally your

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Speaker 1: co because I just like I didn't know a lot

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Speaker 1: about movies and didn't have like a huge passion for

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Speaker 1: them growing up. So I saw it because it was

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Speaker 1: like compulsory, it felt like, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: liked it, Sure, that was fun. And then as time

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Speaker 1: went on and Ali you were alluding to this, there

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Speaker 1: was like just there's always the shifting discussion around what

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Speaker 1: this movie meant culturally, what it meant about you, if

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Speaker 1: you liked it versus you didn't. Like I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's just flip flopped a million times. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: there was a huge chunk of time where they were

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Speaker 1: like Avatar like has been forgotten, like lost to time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like why everyone saw this movie but

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Speaker 1: no one can remember a thing that happens in it,

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Speaker 1: which like I was like, well, I don't remember. And

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Speaker 1: then I think sometime around the Lockdown, I took on

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Speaker 1: a shreky in appreciation of Avatar, where it did seem

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people uh with with like time

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Speaker 1: on their hands, like got back into Avatar kind of

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Speaker 1: like spitefully and ironically where they're like, well, I remember

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Speaker 1: what happened in Avatar, and and I was I was

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Speaker 1: kind of like I was kind of doing that for

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Speaker 1: a while because I was you know, lockdown mental illness.

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Speaker 1: I don't really know, like I can't really speak to it.

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Speaker 1: I know it was happening. I know I bought a

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Speaker 1: lot of books in because there was I think actually

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Speaker 1: the video that like got me back into wanting to

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Speaker 1: understand more about the movie. Because I rewatched the movie,

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Speaker 1: I still like, I don't know, I feel like my

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Speaker 1: opinion on the actually the movie itself has changed for

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Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons you're describing Ali Like, I

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Speaker 1: think that a lot of the there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: of course, like extremely valid criticism of this movie that

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about. And then there's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of like overly simplistic comparisons that you're describing that, Um,

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Speaker 1: I think you're interesting to discuss. Like, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's very it's a very movie movie. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a blockbuster where it just kind of washes

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Speaker 1: over the movie. That feels like a movie. Would you

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Speaker 1: say that the movie it feels like like a movie.

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Speaker 1: It's what I would say, um, a movie with blue cats.

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Speaker 1: It's oh god, I just dude, fox cats a cat

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Speaker 1: does James Caeron, Like, I it's really I'm always going

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Speaker 1: to give James Cameron a chance to impress me, and

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Speaker 1: he's such a weird man, Like I just don't like.

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Speaker 1: The things that he really commits himself to are baffling

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Speaker 1: to me, and I'm excited to talk about it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I kind of came all the way around

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Speaker 1: because I saw a YouTube video by a creator named sideways.

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Speaker 1: Uh yes, right, so I think maybe we talked about

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Speaker 1: you about. It's this incredible video that they made about

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Speaker 1: how the Avatar score was composed and then kind of

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Speaker 1: uncomposed of like all of this work and resources that

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Speaker 1: James Cameron um and the production put into like creating

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Speaker 1: a unique, very specific NAVI culture and then they basically

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Speaker 1: used none of it and they got like overwhelmed, and

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Speaker 1: then they're like, um, let's do a pretty standard James

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Speaker 1: Horner score and that will basically be in So I

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Speaker 1: got more interested in the production side of the movie

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Speaker 1: because there was a lot more thought and intention that

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Speaker 1: went into it than I would have guessed based on

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Speaker 1: what the movie is like. So ultimately I would say

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Speaker 1: the movie feels like a movie. Um. And I I

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Speaker 1: still I mean, I am kind of excited to see

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Speaker 1: the second one can't lie like I, you know, so Gurdi,

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Speaker 1: we were playing a teenager. I've been trigued. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but there's a lot of problems. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, my relationship with Avatar is fraught, but

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Speaker 1: you know, so is mine. All right, well what's your

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Speaker 1: relationship with Avatar? So I saw this in theaters I

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Speaker 1: think twice. I was in my early twenties at the time,

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Speaker 1: and I loved it. I was like, this movie rules.

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Speaker 1: I know you loved it. Whoa Asterix At the time.

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Speaker 1: I was like, damn, this movie is awesome. It's so

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Speaker 1: good James Cameron, he's done it again. And then like

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Speaker 1: some weeks passed and people were like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess I liked it, but was it that good?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. And I was like, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: was it? And then more weeks passed and people are like,

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Speaker 1: maybe that movie actually kind of sucks, and like the

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Speaker 1: same thing that you were talking about Alie is about

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Speaker 1: and you jam me like and then I was like

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Speaker 1: seeing all these things on this social media of the time,

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Speaker 1: which was Facebook, people being like, it's just it's fern Gully,

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Speaker 1: you know, James Cameron ripped off fern Gully, he ripped

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Speaker 1: off Disney's pocahon Is it's blah blah blah. And then

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Speaker 1: I also remember a very specific criticism that so many

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Speaker 1: people were like the things called unobtainium. That's so ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, first of all, it's I think, intentionally

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Speaker 1: on the nose. Secondly, have you seen some some of

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Speaker 1: the elements on the periodic table are called there's an

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Speaker 1: element called einstein Um, like they have some ridiculous names.

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Speaker 1: Like Also, it's like everything about this movie is extremely

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Speaker 1: on the nose, like right, it's not trying to be subtle,

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Speaker 1: so like it's not really James Don's thing. People being

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Speaker 1: like unobtainium that's so like that. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a valid criticism. But then I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it is kind of like pulling from stuff

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Speaker 1: and maybe it isn't as good as I thought. And

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Speaker 1: I was like young enough that I was like too

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Speaker 1: easily influenced by other people's opinions. Still, so I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: reminds this movie it's not good. And then a decade passes, over,

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Speaker 1: a decade passes, I don't watch the movie again until

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Speaker 1: three days ago, and then I watch it again. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I was right the first time. This movie rules. But

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Speaker 1: with the caveat that, there are right. With the caveat that.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of issues with it, which we

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Speaker 1: are about to discuss. But from a just like kind

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Speaker 1: of strictly narrative standpoint, I'm like, James Cameron, he did

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Speaker 1: it again. He can tell a dam cinematic story, does it?

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Speaker 1: He kind of always does it. There's a fun James

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Speaker 1: Cameron thing that I noticed on this one was because

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Speaker 1: there's just like a lot of good killing the bad

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Speaker 1: guys moments towards the end of this movie. But the

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Speaker 1: most the closest thing to the propeller moment Titanic is

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Speaker 1: when the guy gets crushed between the two steel boxes.

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Speaker 1: You're like, why he's a sick oh, and then that's

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Speaker 1: what you get, colonizer. A lot of good colonizer kills.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty exciting so many that's why so many

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Speaker 1: white people did not like it. Let me tell me,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, because this movie. I mean, I only

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Speaker 1: lived in one small country in Europe, you know, so

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Speaker 1: I can't say that this applies outside of the US. Everywhere.

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Speaker 1: But the movie made so much money for a reason,

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Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure it's because the bad guys in

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Speaker 1: Avatar are so American codd Like you don't see American

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Speaker 1: flags or anything like that, but there's no British people

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Speaker 1: and there's no all the white people have American accents,

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Speaker 1: except for Sam Worthington, who's really I love million can't

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Speaker 1: make an Australian guy sound American. Tell you there was

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Speaker 1: one part where he is like, your life comes down

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Speaker 1: to one moroment, and you're like, it just made them

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Speaker 1: Australian because they still have a history of colonialism anyway.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and I think that's why, because the Americans

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Speaker 1: lose in this one. Like I feel like the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world kind of has a very at least

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Speaker 1: my experience in Finland, they have a very Disney Princess

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Speaker 1: cowboys and Indians understanding of Native history and Native people

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Speaker 1: as far as Native American I should say, even if

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Speaker 1: it's not as blatantly racist over there, there's still elements

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Speaker 1: of it where it's like, oh, but you know, we're

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Speaker 1: sympathetic kind of, you know, we're way more sympathetic, and

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Speaker 1: we'll play the Indian in our games more than the Cowboy,

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Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. So to have a

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Speaker 1: movie like this where the cowboys lose to the Indians,

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Speaker 1: I can absolutely see and they sign the Americans packing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course the rest of the world loved

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Speaker 1: this movie. Of course, of course the white Americans hated it.

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Speaker 1: It made two point nine billion dollars. Bill yawns, Billy,

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Speaker 1: I always forget and get mad again. It's like, there's

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Speaker 1: people have accused James Cameron of ripping off a million

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Speaker 1: different stories in this, but there's also just like so

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Speaker 1: much of James Cameron ripping himself off to for like

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Speaker 1: that moment at the end. It reminded me so much

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Speaker 1: of like when Mr. Is May survives and you get

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Speaker 1: one shot on like this motherfucker lived, and they do

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Speaker 1: the same thing with like the bad guy that's not

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Speaker 1: the colonel. What's his name? Yeah, yes, yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that the character's name. I know the Parker Parker

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Speaker 1: when the colonel gets into the like large robot thing,

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Speaker 1: that's what Ripley does at the end of Aliens, Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like Dave's Cameron's using his own playbook to do. Oh

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Speaker 1: that scene is so I'm like it's so weird. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I like, it's a good movie. There, I forgot. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen in a couple of years, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know whatever, your brain kind of trains you to

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Speaker 1: expect the worst in every movie, especially when you do

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Speaker 1: this show for six where the hosts of the back

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Speaker 1: to cast. Yes, but I always feel myself clenched up

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Speaker 1: where I'm like, he's not gonna let na Teri kill

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Speaker 1: the colonel. Izzy, He's gonna let's he's gonna let's sull

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Speaker 1: kill the colonel. He let's say Terry kill the colonel.

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Speaker 1: And it's so exciting, and the whole theater cheered and

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Speaker 1: it was awesome. The catharsis good job movie. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: have so much fun. Let's take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: then we'll come back to recap the movie. So we'll

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Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back. All right, here's the recap.

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Speaker 1: I had to gloss over some details and I even

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Speaker 1: like leave out certain characters just because there's like so

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Speaker 1: much and the movie is almost three hours long, so

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Speaker 1: bear with me. But um, here we go. Better not

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Speaker 1: cut out my friend Dr mac a k, the guy

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Speaker 1: from Dragged Me to Hell. Wait, who is his name,

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Speaker 1: Dr Max? It's Dr Max Ptel Oh, yes, Um Deelippe

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Speaker 1: Row who's also in inception playing a very solar character.

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Speaker 1: Kind of this is he was on kind of an

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Speaker 1: unprecedented run in two thousand nine and ten and then

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Speaker 1: I think James Cameron kidnapped him and um, he is

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Speaker 1: stuck in Pantora forever forever. At least he's living off

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Speaker 1: the royalties for the rest of his life. Truly, he's chilling. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we meet Jake Sully played by Sam Worthington, and

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Speaker 1: we get his backstory. He is a marine who became

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Speaker 1: disabled during battle. He's now paralyzed from the waist down

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Speaker 1: and he has been approached with an opportunity to go

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Speaker 1: to a far away planet called Pandora and do something

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Speaker 1: we don't quite know what yet because his twin died,

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Speaker 1: which I feel like is very glad used over that

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Speaker 1: he's actively mourning his brother. His brother died like four

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Speaker 1: minutes ago. Yeah, I know that. They just cremate him,

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Speaker 1: like right in front of him. I'm like no, and

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Speaker 1: he's just like damn dude, and he's like, we need

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Speaker 1: you for science, and he's like he's Okay, these cans.

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Speaker 1: He's like, all right, sleep it off science in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And also no one cares that he just lost his

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Speaker 1: twin brother, like weavers, like, um, okay, what are you

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Speaker 1: doing here, you loser? I need your brother. Oh yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So then Jake arrives on Pandora and he learns about

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Speaker 1: the planet. It's dangerous wildlife and it's indigenous population called

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Speaker 1: the Navvy, who are tall, blueskinned humanoids. Uh, your cat

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Speaker 1: like the cat cat features with cat features. Jake meets

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Speaker 1: Norm and the two of them are going to be

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Speaker 1: avatar drivers. So basically, scientists have spliced human and NAVI

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Speaker 1: d NA to create these avatars that Jake and Norm

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Speaker 1: and other people will remotely operate by hooking the people

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Speaker 1: up to these avatars via a like neural link, which

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Speaker 1: is why they wanted Jake for this because he has

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Speaker 1: the same DNA as his brother. They originally built this

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Speaker 1: avatar for his brother, but it'll still work with Jake,

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Speaker 1: and that always messes me up because it's like they

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Speaker 1: do nothing with that. It's like if it's his brother's

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Speaker 1: d n A. I mean, this whole movie is about

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Speaker 1: accessing memory and accessing like history and stuff have them.

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Speaker 1: They never did anything like that where he enters his

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Speaker 1: brother's avatar and elements from like his blood memory or

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Speaker 1: something like that is still there so he can feel

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Speaker 1: his thoughts or something. They never do anything with it.

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Speaker 1: That's such a good point. I've never thought about that, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's like that would fit into the theme of

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Speaker 1: the movie. And Jake's always like underdeveloped, but it's not

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Speaker 1: like you don't know anything about it. Damn. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: NATII and the deleted scenes has a sister who died,

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Speaker 1: and these guys never bond over that, Like you both

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Speaker 1: lost your siblings like recently, and that's not something you

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Speaker 1: guys would talk about during your forced fucking romance. And

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Speaker 1: you would also think that, like I don't know that,

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Speaker 1: like Jake might. I don't know, Like Jake doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: culpable enough for any of this the entire movie, when

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Speaker 1: it is like, so his fault a lot of the

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Speaker 1: like most of the time. But it was like also

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Speaker 1: on top of that, his brother would be so disappointed

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Speaker 1: in him for like it sounds like his brother was

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Speaker 1: a very like, well liked ethical scientist who would be

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Speaker 1: probably devastated to learn that his brother like Mick fucked

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Speaker 1: his entire like up on such unprecedented scale. Truly, they

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Speaker 1: be doing that. Um okay. So then we meet the

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Speaker 1: head of the Avatar project, Grace Augustine played by Sigourney Weaver. She,

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Speaker 1: like we mentioned, is not thrilled with Jake being there

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Speaker 1: because he's not a trained scientist. But Jake being there

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Speaker 1: was Parker self Ridge's idea. That's Giovanni Ribisi. And then

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Speaker 1: we learned why people have come to Pandora. It's to

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Speaker 1: collect parentheses steal an extremely valuable element slash mineral called unobtainium.

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Speaker 1: And Parker's whole thing is that he'll stop at nothing

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Speaker 1: to obtain this unobtaini um um, yeah, James Cameron does

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Speaker 1: the classic thing of like capitalism is one guy and

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Speaker 1: the military industrial complex is also another guy. It's not

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Speaker 1: subtle storytelling, but you know, but it's also right, like

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Speaker 1: it's also correct, which is the worst part. So obviously

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Speaker 1: the nov don't want them to do this. So right now,

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Speaker 1: the humans are trying to find a quote unquote diplomatic

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Speaker 1: way to colonize the Navy and steal their resources. So

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Speaker 1: then Jake gets neural linked to his Navy avatar for

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Speaker 1: the first time. He gets acclimated to his new body,

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Speaker 1: and the movie telegraphs to us that it's exciting for

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Speaker 1: him because his in his human body, he's paralyzed from

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Speaker 1: the waist down, but in his navy body he can

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Speaker 1: walk and run, and he really takes to his new

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Speaker 1: body very quickly. This is interesting because there is absolutely

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Speaker 1: some able is um for sure in this movie. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, there's a really wonderful line though,

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Speaker 1: because obviously people with disabilities are not I hate to

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Speaker 1: say not a monolith, but that's the only thing that

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Speaker 1: came to mind. You know, there's many different types, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it's different for each person. So there was a

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Speaker 1: quote when I was doing my research where a woman

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Speaker 1: who was able bodied and then couldn't use her legs

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Speaker 1: anymore and as in a wheelchair, said that the scene

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Speaker 1: where he goes from his wheelchair into the avatar where

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Speaker 1: he's walking and playing basketball and running, it's really touching.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I had a spinal cord injury in a

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Speaker 1: car accident when I was five years old, so it

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Speaker 1: gave me chills. I'm in a wheelchair for twenty years.

422
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: I can't even remember what it was like, and he's

423
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: just stretching his legs out and it must have felt

424
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: just so like the ultimate stretch. And then other people

425
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: were like, uh no, this is actually quite awful. Yeah, yeah,

426
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: there's a whole conversation to be had around that. And

427
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: I saw similarly like mixed responses um and ultimately the

428
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: actor should have been a disabled actor exactly, a disabled actor,

429
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: a good actor. You know, there's a lot of part

430
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: your not a white actor, a lot of choices could

431
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: have been made differently. I think, yeah, we'll get into

432
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: the conversation around disability a little later. But I was

433
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: interested that there was such a kind of diversity of

434
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 1: opinion because what was hitting for me And it's like,

435
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm able bodied, Like I don't have a voice in

436
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: this conversation really, but but I you know, there are

437
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: constant insults thrown Jake Sully's way. They are generally from

438
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: characters we are not supposed to like. So it's like,

439
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's a it's an interesting one,

440
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: it's complicated, and from characters that we do like it,

441
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: even Grace At sometimes that's yeah, she's saying some ablest

442
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: slurs at him. Yeah, it's like, okay, Grace smoking a

443
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: cigarette in the lab. Oh yeah, She's like, where's my

444
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: goddamn cigarette? What's wrong with this picture? That was iconic,

445
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: that was great. You don't need a sig you need

446
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: but her able ism was disappointed and consistent too. It

447
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: like became like a term of endearment. It seems like, yeah,

448
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: really gross. Um. So back in his Jake body, he

449
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: meets Trudy. That's Michelle Rodriguez. She's a pilot who will

450
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: bring the avatars into the wilderness so they can do

451
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: their science uh and colonizing. Um. Jake also reports to

452
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: Colonel Quaritch his whole thing is science people are losers.

453
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: Military people are awesome, And I want you to spy

454
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: on the Novi and find out their weaknesses so I

455
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: can kill them more easily. I love this bad guy.

456
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: I know I shouldn't, but I love this bad guy.

457
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: He's such a ham He's so campy. He seems camping, cartoonish.

458
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: But also I feel like there are people like this,

459
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: oh for sure. So just like this, in any other movie,

460
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: he would be the hero. James Cameron just made him

461
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: the bad guy this time, but changed nothing like this

462
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: would be Arnold in the Goddamn Jungle looking for the Predator.

463
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: This could be any action hero in the eighties. It's

464
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: the exact same character. He's just bad this time and

465
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: it's Stephen Lange and he's just so fucking perfect and scoofy.

466
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: It's very good casting. Stephen Lange really seems like he's

467
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: having the time of his life being the worst man ever.

468
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: And I mean the same with Giovanni Ribisi's character, where

469
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: you're like, he's just fucking despicable and it's so like

470
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: played up, and then when they're in the same room,

471
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it's the most evil room in the world,

472
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: and you're reculing there are people that are those people

473
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: are just like this do you have on ABC? Is

474
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: interesting though, I feel like his character would have been

475
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: this one dimensional, you know, sort of comic book character

476
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: like Stephen Lane, but he um. I think the actor

477
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: gives it a nuance where he's like conflicted, where it's like,

478
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: because you even see it in the movie sometimes where

479
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: he's like he'll give like a heavy sigh, We're going

480
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: to kill these people and well they're not people, they're

481
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: cats in a tree. Whatever. They can go to another tree.

482
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: But we're gonna kill babies, you know. So it's like

483
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: you kind of like see the mental gymnastics he's doing,

484
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: or like the you know, the things that he has

485
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: to do to justify his choices, which does make it

486
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: worse because he still Yeah, yeah, not to brag or anything,

487
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: but I saw Giovanni Ribis getting ice cream in my

488
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: neighborhood one time. Wow. All I did was see Taylor

489
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: Lawton or screaming at a moon juice. It's not fair.

490
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: I met Scott McNeil a and he told me I

491
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: was beautiful. Hell yeah, okay, I do. That was Piccolow

492
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: from Dragon Ball Z and all of my nineties heroes

493
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: hell yoh okay. So, Jake, Norm and Grace in their

494
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: avatars go into the forest. They encounter some big, scary animals.

495
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: One chases Jake and he gets separated from the others

496
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: and lost in the forest. Then he encounters a navvy

497
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: woman Natieri played by Zoey Soldanna, who saves him from

498
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: the animals who were swarming him. But she's really pissed.

499
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: She's like, those animals didn't need to die, but because

500
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: you were careless and flopping around like a baby, I

501
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: had to kill them. And he's like, Oopsie, well how

502
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: about you teach me to be better at this? And

503
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: she's like, no, you suck. But then the seeds of

504
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: the Sacred tree float down and surround him as if

505
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: to say he's special, He's the chosen one. I know,

506
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: there's so many chosen one shots. And then I've kind

507
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: of always forget that. It culminate in like and also,

508
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Jake Sully can kind of talk to God and she

509
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: listens to him. What God answers to Jake Sully, what

510
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Atlantis Morrissette would never talk about. Also,

511
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: Zoe Seldana just like one thousand percent, just embodies this

512
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: character like she's the best. She's the best actress in

513
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: the movie. I love, like just the physical performance, the

514
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: way she moves, the way she the way she hisses

515
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: like a cat. Yes, she's so good. They said that

516
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: she was a former ballet dancer, so she was able

517
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: to do like all the stunt work and stuff like yeah,

518
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 1: because she was in that movie that we covered and

519
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: it was called Center Stage. Yes, yeah, that was like

520
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: her big debut. Yeah, I forgot that she was Yeah,

521
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: Jews dance trained man. So he sail. Donna also on

522
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: a hot streak because she's also in the Star Trek

523
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: movie this year and Guardians of the and yeah, like

524
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: she's queen a sci fi she's in a lot of

525
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: space movies. Yeah, she's She's also in the Britney Spears

526
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: classic Cross Crossroads. Yes, I did not know that true story.

527
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like DNA would prefer it

528
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: that way. It's not a very good movie written by

529
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: Shonda Rhymes though. Okay, So Natieri takes Jake to Home

530
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: Tree where the Navi live. We meet her father. Yes,

531
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: I know that with him as soon as I saw him,

532
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: Like he just has a very distinct looking face, even

533
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: before I even knew he was in the movie. It's

534
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: like as soon as it was like, okay, native coded characters,

535
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: they need a chief there. He is beautiful man. Yeah yea.

536
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: So he's the clan leader. And we also meet Natieri's mother,

537
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: their Mowatt, played by cc H pounder Um. She's there

538
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: like spiritual leader the Sahik. She's incredible. She is the

539
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: best looking one. I love her design. Her design is awesome.

540
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: First of all, that was so Mowatt is the only

541
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: character in the film that passes the Ali Nati test,

542
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: oh because she never falls in love with a white

543
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: man and she doesn't die and all that other good ship.

544
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, so she Uh. Usually in stories like this,

545
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: there is never a chief's wife, like there's usually the

546
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: chief's daughter, the Indian princess type, but you never see

547
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: like the spouse of the chief, which is interesting because

548
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: a lot of Native society is not all but many

549
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: are matrilineal, so the bloodline usually follows the mother, so

550
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: you never really see a character quite like this anyways.

551
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: But then she just her design is beautiful. I just

552
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: love how every aspect of this character. You look at

553
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: her and it tells a story. I by that she's

554
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: the chief's wife, that she's the spiritual leader. Um, the

555
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: fact that she's bilingual suggests that she probably tried to

556
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: be diplomatic and then realized there's no salvaging this. So

557
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, it's just such a really interesting I wish

558
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: we saw more of her and less of Jake. I

559
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: like less of Jake on the whole. I hope that

560
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: the second movie really runs with the whole concept of

561
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: less Jake. The trailers tell us anything, though, I feel

562
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: like he's in the movie a lot sid Founder. I

563
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 1: didn't because I'm like, I don't know anything about linguistics.

564
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just a baby. I'm seventeen years old. You're

565
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: Jake Sully flopping around in the forest. So that's that

566
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 1: I'm not that bad. But but um in in that

567
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: sideways video that sort of unpacks how you know, this

568
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: movie invested in building an entire language, kind of Elvish style,

569
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: and like hired a dialect coach to teach each actor

570
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: um how to speak Navi and speak it correctly. I

571
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: guess C. C. H. Pounder is like the m v

572
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: P of speaking Navy in a way that it was

573
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: like very authentic and convincing. And there's like a whole

574
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: sequence of like how she I don't know, it's really

575
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: cool cool anyway, shoutout C. H. Pounder. Hell yeah, shout out. Okay.

576
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: So most of the nov are hostile towards Jake, understandably

577
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: they see him as an outsider. But Ma Watt says

578
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: that Jake Sully should learn their ways because she's like

579
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: she interprets the will of a wa, which is their deity.

580
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: So Mo Wat's like, Okay, you can learn our ways

581
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: and NATII, you're going to be the one to teach him,

582
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: which she's not thrilled about. Back in human world, everyone

583
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: is thrilled that Jake has gotten so close to the

584
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: Navy grace for like science and anthropological reasons. And Parker

585
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: because under the Navy palm tree is one of the

586
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: largest obtanium deposits on the whole planet um and so

587
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: he's giving Jake three months to convince the Navy to

588
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: move so that they can come and steal the unobtainium.

589
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: Otherwise bulldozers will go in and destroy the place. So

590
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: back in Avatar body, Jake begins to learn the culture

591
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: and customs of the Navy. Also, they call themselves omata kaya,

592
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,959
Speaker 1: so I'll like probably use those words interchangeably from now on.

593
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 1: Although they refer to themselves, they never referred to themselves

594
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: as the Navy. Is that correct. I think it's part

595
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: of their language. Yeah, Because there's a scene where she's

596
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: yelling and I here not be I wonder if it's

597
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: like their word for like people maybe or something, because

598
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: I think is the name of their clan, their clan, Okay,

599
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: because I think other yeah, other like regional clans are

600
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: referenced later on when they're building their the army against

601
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: against Mr. Military. Yes, Stephen Lan, Yeah, I love when

602
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: Stephen Lan dies. It's so exciting. Okay. So, because they

603
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: refer to themselves as amata kaya, all from this point

604
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: on use that um to refer to them. So Jake

605
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: learns how to ride this horse like creature, and Naterie

606
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: explains that he needs to form a bond called sahlu

607
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: with the creature, which is the like. So they all

608
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: the Amakaya people have this long braid and at the

609
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: end of the braid are these how would doc Yeah,

610
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: tentacles more or less little like nerve endings. It's very um,

611
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: You're just like James Cameron. It's what are you thinking

612
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: about in that big old house? That's what he was saying.

613
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: Can't girls and tentacles? I'm just saying, really, it's so funny.

614
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I wouldn't even say that's him knowing his audience.

615
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: I think that's him broadening his audience. So it's like, well,

616
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: fuck the horse with your tentacle braid. Yeah, and that's

617
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: how you create this meaningful bond with animals and trees

618
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: and um, basically any living thing on Pandora. There's also

619
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: this flying animal, the Akron, but he's not ready to

620
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: form a halu with one of those yet, because this

621
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: is like advanced stuff, advanced tentacle sex. He's not ready

622
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: for its. It advanced hantai Hanti two one is yeah,

623
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: but he is learning the language, he's learning how to hunt,

624
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: he's learning how to see things from an omata kaya perspective.

625
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: He learns about the deity Awa and eventually Natteri deems

626
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: him ready to try to form this bond with an Ikron,

627
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: which he successfully does. Also side note, there is an

628
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: alpha version of the Akron, but it's very very rare

629
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: for anyone to bond and fly with one, so just

630
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: put a little pin in that. It's like the guy

631
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: Fieri iron like. It's got flames on this side like

632
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: it's the cool He's very big, you can tell because

633
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: he's got flames. Oh, speaking of cat like creatures, Ali's

634
00:40:54,200 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: cat just showed up. Heard the call ah Piku, I

635
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: too would like to learn about the cats, the fellow

636
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: dragon fucking cats. Okay, so Jake and Naterie they fly

637
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: together and also they flirt together. Nobody asked for this,

638
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: and yet I'm kind of rooting for them. There I

639
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: said it, you weren't. That was I was honestly brave

640
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: to say, because no one else did. I feel like

641
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: at every turn, you're just like Nigeria can do better

642
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: so much among these faceless navi that do we know

643
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: that it's such a large population, Like, surely, surely someone's

644
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: here that isn't Jake Sully. But I feel like, you know,

645
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: in in the in the real world, we often end

646
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: up with the Jake Sullies of the world. Told me

647
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: about it. You never think it's going to be you.

648
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: The worst part is that the guy she's hooked up with,

649
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: the one who is going to be the next clan leader,

650
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: his name Suite. Those two they're like betrothed. I guess

651
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: they become a mated pair eventually, but you don't really

652
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 1: see them interact much at all, Like they really don't

653
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: have much of a relationship, which is unfortunate because the

654
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: actor is super hot, and yet they give my man

655
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: this fucking atrocious hairline and these tiny ears and these

656
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: any bodies small nipples. I want to like you, but shit,

657
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: I mean, las Alonzo is gorgeous. They did him so dirty.

658
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: They didn't pretty dirty, I don't. I mean, there's like,

659
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: I think the element of Jak and Dyteri's love story

660
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: that worked for me, although I was like a little

661
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: unclear on what the Navvy mating practices work because it

662
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, they referenced that you would be betrothed,

663
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: you didn't have a say in who you married. But

664
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: then it's like, I guess they just didn't really go

665
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: into it. I'm sure it's in one of my many

666
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: Navvy guide books that I have back in Los Angeles,

667
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: but I am not there right now, so I couldn't

668
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: consult my my small avatar library that I manically purchased

669
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: second hand. Please don't judge me, okay, um, but I

670
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: think that the element of the Jake and Naterry love

671
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: story that worked for me was like her choosing Like

672
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: that was cool, That's what I liked to Yeah, and

673
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: even Jake Sully was like and she must choose me

674
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: because he's an Australian. She's like she already has kiss

675
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, that's the part. I like, let's fatantical

676
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: six then, but yeah, Jake is a romantic partner? Is um? No?

677
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: Thanks pass? Okay, So back in human world. Jake is

678
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: having an identity crisis because he has gotten so immersed

679
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: in the Omakayah way of life that he feels that

680
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: that's his real life and him as a humans like

681
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: a dream. Basically, they say he stopped showering. You're like, Jake, Yeah,

682
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: get it together, man, Seriously. He is then officially made

683
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: a member of the Oma Takaya, so he is now

684
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: one of them. Can I just say this takes place

685
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: over three months? I know this motherfucker becomes the best navvy,

686
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: the best Indian ever in three months. I don't want

687
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: to hear anybody complain about Ray from Star Wars ever again,

688
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: ever again? Where was that energy for Jake? Selling? Yeah?

689
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: I found that hard to believe, both that he could

690
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: master a language in three months and like just like

691
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: master all of the culture and customs, and that the

692
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: Alma Takaya people would so readily accept him in such

693
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: a short amount of time. I was like, nothing adds

694
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: up here, No disconnected natives, Like obviously not all natives

695
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: are the same, but so many disconnected natives who are

696
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: displaced because of colonization, residential schools, foster care, or just

697
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,439
Speaker 1: some growing off the reservation like there's such an anxiety

698
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: when it comes to reconnecting to your own people that

699
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: the fact that this dude who has nothing to do

700
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: with any of these people and has no history with

701
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: any of these people can just walk right and be

702
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: like oh yeah. There's so many gross moments, like especially

703
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: once he becomes immersed in like o Mentakaya culture, like

704
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: where he repeatedly is like I need to speak and

705
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: it's like, Jake, you don't, like you've just got here

706
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: my man, Like really shouldn't? That, I would say is

707
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: my biggest beef with this movie. Yeah, Jake is really

708
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: taking up quite a bit of space for being a guest,

709
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: for being a new, like a new random white guy

710
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: that is actively ruining everyone's life, Like yeah, fucking Jake Sully.

711
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: But he's one of them now. And um he gets

712
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: to choose a mate and he chooses nay Tieri and

713
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 1: she's like, I choose you back, and then they kiss

714
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: and have tentacle sex under a tree. It's kind of hot.

715
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: It's confusing, you're corny. James Cameron knows how to make

716
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: a sex scene that will even if you don't like it,

717
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: it's going to stick with you. It's good, you're gonna

718
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: be thinking about it. I remember when I thought that

719
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: scene was so weird when I saw it for the

720
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: first time, and then I a couple of years later,

721
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: I started playing mass Effect and the Love of my

722
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: Life is this cricket looking dinosaur, fucking alien man with

723
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: a very nice voice, So it's not weird. Yeah, his

724
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: pictures in there. If you want to check your the

725
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: Google duck like I do. I do want to check

726
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: Wait what page? Page twenty the very top is the

727
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 1: Love of my life? Oh my god. Okay, he's kind

728
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: of hot, adores you. It's kind of got a Mr.

729
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: Darcy vibe to like, he's complicated, but I can get

730
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: through to him. His code name is Archangel. Oh my good. Okay.

731
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: So Jake and Nati are smooching and they fall asleep

732
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: together and the next morning a huge bulldozer comes crashing

733
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: into the tree where they're at and Naterian Jake have

734
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: to run away. Colonel Quaritch and Parker, the two big

735
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: bads of the movie, realized that Jake is trying to

736
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: sabotage their mission, and they are piste and they're about

737
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: to go back in guns blazing, and Jake is like stop,

738
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: let me talk to them and see if I can

739
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: negotiate something here. A detail that I didn't really think

740
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: about that I appreciated on this uh one was that

741
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: Grace knew the whole time, like she was able to

742
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,439
Speaker 1: figure out very I feel like a lesser script would

743
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: have been like and she had no idea because women

744
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: can't brain. But I like that she figures out because

745
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: that is like logical, Like he is a marine first,

746
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: um so, and he's around the two most evil people

747
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: ever all the time, and so she's like, oh, I

748
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: need to get him out of here because like I

749
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: need the information he can get me. And of course

750
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: he's going to go with these guys because that is

751
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: like his kind of degree or whatever. Yeah, he hates

752
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,959
Speaker 1: science and he's not he's he's refused to mourn his brother,

753
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: so he's kind of a loose cannon. He forgot all

754
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: about his brother. Yeah, never hear about him ever? Again,

755
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: what was his name? Even do we ever? Commy? We

756
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: do learn his name? Tommy Sully? Horrible, horrible, pouring one

757
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: out for Tommy Sully tonight, Jeeves, just why not Sullivan?

758
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: Why not? Anyway? Shout out to your character Sully though

759
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: from Santa University. I it's look, he's coming back this

760
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: year because it's you're the Sully, Thank you so much?

761
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: All right, so so bad guys are about to go

762
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: back in, guns blazing, and Jake's like, let me talk

763
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: to them, so he goes back in. But NACKTII is like,

764
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: what you knew this would happen? I trusted you and

765
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: you betrayed us. Favorite scene in the movie. Favorite scene

766
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: I talked about this and Frozen too, but I'll say

767
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 1: it again. Uh, this was the point in the movie

768
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, this can only go one

769
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: of two ways. If it goes one way, I hate

770
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: this movie and it is the worst thing ever made.

771
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: If it goes the other way, I love this movie.

772
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: It's the best thing that's ever been made. I feel

773
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: differently now. The stakes are very high, but literally, like

774
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: I said earlier too, it's all like in movies like

775
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: this and stories like this, especially with a character like this,

776
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, oh, well, we can reach something peaceful

777
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,959
Speaker 1: because I love him and he loves me, and love

778
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: saves love consol racism, and it doesn't. So what it

779
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: is is you knew this was happening, and We're gonna

780
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: lose our home. People are going to die, and we

781
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: trusted you. You shouldn't even be here and we've already

782
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: trusted you. And Zoey sell Donna's emotional just rage in

783
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: that scene was so good and I'm like, good, you

784
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: fucking kill his ass, like yeah, and she leaves him

785
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: for dead because she leaves dead. I love that she

786
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: leaves him for dead. Perfect because they tie Jake and

787
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: Grace up to a tree knowing that the bulldozers like

788
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: on its way and like missiles are coming, so leaves

789
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: him for dead. The military shows up to fire at

790
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: home Tree, but then Moa is like, you know what, Jake,

791
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: if you are one of us, help us, So she

792
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: sets him free conflictive feelings about the home tree is destroyed.

793
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: It's absolutely devastating. I'm crying. And Natieri's father is killed

794
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: among others in this attack. Someone brought up how despite

795
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: how anti military and anti imperialist Avatar tries to be,

796
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: they did kill the only native actor in the movie.

797
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're not wrong. That scene was sad, though

798
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: I love with study and Zoey's performance again just so

799
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: sad because Jake Sulley is once again trying to insert

800
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: himself into one of the most personal moments one can have,

801
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: and it's I think one of the things that has

802
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: I don't I mean, I don't remember how I felt

803
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: about anything when I was seventeen. Probably incorrectly it's safety,

804
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: but I do think that the movie obviously there's a

805
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: shipload of stuff calling on. It's like we're approaching the

806
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: climax of the movie. But wish that they took more

807
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: time to dwell on that loss, because we lose this

808
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: amazing character. It is this really really moving, well performed moment,

809
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: and then we kind of don't revisit it, and it's

810
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously everyone's in crisis, but it's like it

811
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: would have been nice to see, you know, like her

812
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: mother's reaction, to see the community's reaction. But we get

813
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: way more airtime to like we have to save Grace,

814
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: which is like, sure, Grace is a great character, but

815
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: why are we focusing on a white lady we've known

816
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: for like a couple, you know, months, versus like our leader, Yeah,

817
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: like your parent that like your parents. Oh my god,

818
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: I could not like having lost a parent. I promise

819
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: I won't cry anymore. But having lost a parent, Like

820
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: there's no forgiving someone if they get your dad killed,

821
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like how I get it,

822
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: Like I get it as well, like find out later

823
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: with the Toroka and everything and the story and but

824
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: even so, I mean two things can exist at once, man,

825
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: and you killed my dad. You know, I'm I fuck this,

826
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: fuck you because I didn't mention this, and yet I

827
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: don't think. But Jake Selly has been feeding information about

828
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: like the tree, the home tree, to Colonel Quaritch, So

829
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: he's like gathering this intel that he's now able to

830
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: use against the Omakaya people in this attack. So he's evil.

831
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: So then Jake finds Nteri in the rubble as she's

832
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: mourning the death of her father. She wants nothing to

833
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: do with him. She's like, get away, never come back.

834
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: Then the military bad guys pull the plug on Jake

835
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: and Grace and so they wake up in their human bodies.

836
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 1: They put them plus Norm in a holding cell. But

837
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: Trudy remember her, she's in the movie. She she would

838
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: the equip about every forty minutes, and you're like, um,

839
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: she breaks them out of prison and they get in

840
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: Trudy's ship and escape this military base, and they head

841
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: to the Tree of Souls, which is the amatokaia is

842
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: most sacred place um where they have relocated and Jake

843
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: needs to prove his worth to be able to rejoin them,

844
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: so he forges a bond with the Alpha Akron, the

845
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: the one that has like spinners on the wheels. I

846
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 1: just kept thinking it was like the coolest car ever.

847
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: He's got a spoiler on the back. Yeah. Um. So

848
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 1: Jake shows up with the torok at the Tree of Souls.

849
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: He pulls up, he pulls up. Yeah, he kind of

850
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 1: tokyo drifts into the I mean, if we have Michelle

851
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: Rodriguez of the movie and everything exactly. Um, and everyone

852
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: reveres him now and Nati is like, maybe you're okay

853
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: again instant forgive nous. Yeah. And then during the escape earlier,

854
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: Grace was shot, so the Omakaya tried to save her

855
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: by transferring her consciousness permanently to her avatar her Oatcaia body,

856
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: but she's too weak and she dies. But she dies

857
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: at peace. Yes, it's a really good scene. Yeah, it's

858
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: very touching, for sure. It's nice. And I also like,

859
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: again it just like I feel like a lot of

860
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: movies would have not had the courage to kill her off,

861
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: especially like a big but it's like, no one can

862
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: die in franchise movies now because not now. But James

863
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: Cameron is not shy about killing people off. So oh,

864
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: get yeah, you're we're about to see a lot of

865
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: colonizers get squished. That Jake gives the biggest, dumbest speech,

866
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: but ID it's cringe, but I dig it. Yeah, it's cringe,

867
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: but I dig it. And the reason I dig it

868
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: is because this is where the Pocahonas and space Trope

869
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: just goes to die. Because again, you know, especially with

870
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: a character like this, a story like this, it's always

871
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: our love can save the day and peace and understanding,

872
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: and this is no, we are beyond that. Now we

873
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: have to fight. Now they need to fucking leave. And

874
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: that never happens in movies like this, where it's like

875
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: pieces not an option. We are hell and gone from diplomacy.

876
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: You have to fucking go. And you never see this

877
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 1: in like movies about indigenous people, let alone movies about

878
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: indigenous people by non indigenous people, like especially rich white

879
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 1: dudes in the film industry. So yeah, because it's them

880
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: trying to rewrite history. To be like, no, we it

881
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: was so peaceful when we came here and colonized people

882
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: and murdered them. Yeah. One of my one of my

883
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: grandma's was a princess, was anobby. She plugged her tail

884
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: into my dad, did she though? Yeah, that that's a

885
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: very James Camerony moment. And it's also like, I don't know,

886
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 1: like I always truggle with Like, I totally agree with you, Ali,

887
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: and I think it's like it is a really unusual

888
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: subversion in a movie of this scale to to do.

889
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: And then it's also like why Jake Sully, like of

890
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: all people, when he's like, this is our land, It's

891
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: like it's our our land, not your your say this

892
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: is your land, Jake, you just got here. It would

893
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: have been cool if he said this is your land.

894
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. So yeah, So Jake is rallying the

895
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: Oma Takaya to launch an attack against the humans or

896
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: the sky people as he calls them as if he's

897
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: not one of them, but um, Colonel Quaritch and the

898
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: humans are planning a preemptive counterattack with their you know,

899
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: more advanced weaponry and their aircrafts and missiles and all

900
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: of that. So Jake goes and pray is to Awa

901
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: for help. The Awa scene with it's just Jake Sally

902
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: is like so embarrassing all the time. So he goes

903
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: to Awa to pray essentially, And I did think it

904
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: was kind of funny how that scene and where Natia

905
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: comes in and she's like, yeah, that's like not how

906
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: this works, and Jake's like, oh man, well it was

907
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: worth a dry and then she's like, okay, let's go

908
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: to bed. That's like the scene, but then it ends

909
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: up working like but then, yeah, God is listening to

910
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: Jake Sally, I think not. I think not. Atlantis morsets

911
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: in the tree like all right, okay, just this once.

912
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: Let's hear this Australian guy out. Let's see. So the

913
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: next morning, the humans come to the mountains with you know,

914
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: their heavy firepower, but the Alma Takaya have the hometown

915
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: advantage and they have Jake as Turuk makto um because

916
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: he's on the big pterodactyl with flames on the side convertible. Yeah,

917
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: so he is in charge and there's a long battle

918
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: and eventually it seems like all hope is lost for

919
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: Jake and the tie and the Amatacaya and Trudy who

920
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: shows up to help, and Norm, who's fighting with them,

921
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: has a gun. It's silly. It's like, why are we

922
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: letting Norm have a gun? He's not contributing. Come on,

923
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: Norm's an indoor kid, Like, what's he doing here? So

924
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: Quarich is headed towards the Tree of Souls to destroy it,

925
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: but then the big animals from earlier in the movie

926
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: come charging in and they drive out the bad guys.

927
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: Seems as though Awa has answered Jake's prayer, and so

928
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: the Almatacaya get the upper hand and there's a final

929
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: showdown between quar Rich and Jake and the Tiri and

930
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: they defeat Karrich and a Ti gets like the killing blow.

931
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: Two killing blows were also forgotten on the re release

932
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: that she gets. She gets him twice just to be sure. Yeah,

933
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: it's so satisfying. I love it when the James Horner

934
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: that she pulls up. It's good. The movie feels like

935
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 1: a movie when I'm watching. That's so good. And then

936
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: the Alma Takaya send the humans home and the movie

937
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: ends with Jake's consciousness being transferred to his avatar to

938
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: make him permanently one of the Alma Takaya the and

939
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: so let's take another quick break and we will come

940
01:00:49,240 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: back to discuss and then we're back. Okay, Ali, where

941
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: would you like to start a preference? Where do we begin?

942
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: There's so much, there's so much to say. Uh, okay,

943
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: how about we begin with any questions you might have

944
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: for me? Well, so we already we touched on a

945
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: lot of the criticisms that I think we're going to

946
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: have against this movie already during the recap. But yeah,

947
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, the big thing is, you've got

948
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: this like white guy who like appropriates the body of

949
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: an indigenous person comes in. He's flopping around and they're like, no, no, no,

950
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: You're the chosen one though, and it doesn't make sense,

951
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: but he's the chosen one. He doesn't have imposter syndrome

952
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: for one single second, which I guess is very white

953
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: guy of him. He has a very inflated ego about

954
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Yeah, but yeah, it is. It is

955
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: like a white savior top to bottom. So the question,

956
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: so my question is what in a in a movie

957
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: with a similar premise where you know, like white capitalist

958
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: colonizers come in and are trying to colonize and steal

959
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: the land and still the resources of Indigenous people. What

960
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: is a version of this story or what changes would

961
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: you make or do you think could be made to

962
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: eliminate the issues that we see in Avatar? Okay, So

963
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: I've thought about this a lot, because a lot of

964
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: the issues stem back to Jake, like massively, for all

965
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: the reasons that we suggested, I feel like, even if

966
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: if nothing else were to change about the film, and

967
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: it would have been the exact same movie and the

968
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: exact same steaks and everything as problematic as it was,

969
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: if someone like Adam Beach or Anthony Mackie or a

970
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: character of color, specifically a disabled and preferably an Indigenous

971
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: actor playing Jake instead, I feel like it would have

972
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: had more gravity. As much as I like Sigourney Weaver's character,

973
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: she's so sympathetic to the knobby that I was like, okay,

974
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: but scientists, unfortunately, are not that sympathetic to Indigenous people.

975
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: They're the ones that are stealing their remains and putting

976
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: them in the Smithsonian against people's wishes and stuff, you know,

977
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: or conducting the research to prove that you know, Sami

978
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: people aren't human enough or not as advanced enough as

979
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: like Swedish or Finnish people. You know, so if you

980
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: were going to have that character like the Scientists character,

981
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: if she were indigenous, if she were played by Tantu

982
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: Cardinal or even Irene Bedard Roads go back to Pocontas,

983
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: or even like if you wanted someone sassy but smart

984
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: and you know, still had that ferocity. Even Jennifer Pademski

985
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: would have been perfect in that part. I think, be great.

986
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: She would have been great. She's hilarious and she's badass,

987
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: because I think that that would have been an interesting

988
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: subversion because her school in the movie. That was another thing.

989
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: And Connor Beard was talking about this on TikTok. He

990
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: was talking about how Avatar has many problems. He's from

991
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: the Lumbi tribe, and he said specifically that the school

992
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,919
Speaker 1: being used as a positive in the film is kind

993
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: of toned off, if not really offensive, because residential schools

994
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: were so bad too native children and they aren't in

995
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: this movie. And I feel like that was probably just

996
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: to bridge the communication error, you know what I mean,

997
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: like or the conflict or you know, it's like we

998
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: need we need to be able to talk to these people.

999
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 1: They need to be able to blah blah blah. But

1000
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: like what if it was Tantu Cardinal and she was

1001
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: teaching them a nish nabe mowen instead of English or

1002
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: along with English. So it's like, you know, we can

1003
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: communicate a little more privately and not in a language

1004
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: that would like front you off in front of the

1005
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: real bad guys or something, you know, because then that

1006
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: would be subversion. That would also be kind of decolonizing

1007
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: that sort of premise of the school if you were

1008
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: going to have that, because if they want to come

1009
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: in and like actually engage in some kind of diplomacy,

1010
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: why is it, oh, we have to teach you English

1011
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: so that you can communicate with me versus and to

1012
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: be fair grace like does no Navi And like the

1013
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: other sidecientists seemed too as well. And I wonder if

1014
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: that was just almost a choice to be like, well,

1015
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: we don't want to have too much of the movie

1016
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: in a language other than English, because that Holly Mr.

1017
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: Hollywood thinks that that tends to put off American letters audiences,

1018
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: So like we have to as much as possible have

1019
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: the nov or have the omata kaya speak English. So

1020
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if like that's just how they justify But

1021
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: then but like to have it be like they set

1022
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: up a school to teach Indigenous children English, Like you said, Ali,

1023
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: the historical parallels to that are atrocious, and it doesn't

1024
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: seem like the filmmakers considered the implications of making that choice.

1025
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: That was like something that popped for me this time

1026
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: where it's like the there's no like even even with Grace,

1027
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: because I feel like Grace is and the science and

1028
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, Norm, Dr Max, etcetera. Are are all presented

1029
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: pretty uncritically as good guys. But on this rewatch specifically

1030
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: like with Bechdel goggles on your like this actually like

1031
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: the movie should be far more kind of interrogating what

1032
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: it is they're doing, because it's like Grace is also

1033
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: appropriating an Indigenous body, Like she's doing that consistently, and

1034
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: the ethics of that are not questioned, um by any

1035
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: of the characters in the movie. It's like, because she's

1036
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: not giving information to the kernel, it's made to seem like, well,

1037
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: so what she's doing is above board. But it's like

1038
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: if if she's starting you know, the equivalent of a

1039
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: residential school on Pandora, there's no reciprocity where it's like

1040
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: the nov don't have an opportunity to to you know,

1041
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: it all takes place on Pandora because that is where

1042
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: the humans interests lie is like mining these natural resources.

1043
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: And Grace is absolutely complicitly in that, Like she knows

1044
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: that to the point where she is able to, you know,

1045
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: predict that Jake is going to leak information to the

1046
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: colonel and she gets them out of there, which puts

1047
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 1: a band aid on the problem. But she's still aware

1048
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: of exactly what's happening, and she's you know, she has

1049
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: like some quips and she's she you know, doesn't seem

1050
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: to agree with it, but she she's participating. She's a

1051
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: willing participant and that is not really interrogated at all. Yeah,

1052
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: that's right. I agree. And uh, my friend Aaronnach, who's wonderful, Uh,

1053
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: they have a really wonderful YouTube channel. We were talking

1054
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: about this because I was sharing my notes and I

1055
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: was trying not to share my deeper notes, just more like, oh,

1056
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: look this funny thing I said, you know, while I'm

1057
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: doing research. But they said, they're like, I think this

1058
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: film is so forgettable because it almost does something worthy

1059
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: of note and then went, well, how can we make

1060
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: a white guy the hero and the weirdest way possible?

1061
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, that's the biggest failing of this

1062
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: film is that Jake is in it, just because it

1063
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: feels like Natari should be the hero. Absolute like if

1064
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: you're going to have the school and stuff like that

1065
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: in it, I mean, like, why couldn't it begin with

1066
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: nat Terry being a student in the school and then

1067
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: seeing her sister be murdered like they say happens in

1068
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: the deleted scenes and stuff, and then becoming disillusion and

1069
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: disenfranchised with this idea of diplomacy, you know, because there

1070
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: is no diplomatic way to forcibly relocate people that's genocide.

1071
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: Like that's exactly I love. I mean, I love what

1072
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,759
Speaker 1: you're talking about in terms of casting native actors um

1073
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: on the human side of the conflict, because that doesn't happen.

1074
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: And I feel like that problem scales up to what

1075
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: you were discussing at the beginning of the episode, which

1076
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: is like that would be an incredible, like I think,

1077
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: a far more impactful way to tell this story and

1078
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: also probably not a story that James Cameron has any

1079
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,520
Speaker 1: business writing. And so it's again, it's like a resources

1080
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: thing of like, you know, who is getting the opportunities.

1081
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: James Cameron's using his own playbook to try to tell

1082
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: this story, but he's limited and what he can do,

1083
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very outsider's perspective. And the way

1084
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,799
Speaker 1: that Dances with Wolves was um but but to Dances

1085
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: with Wolves credit the native characters in that movie are

1086
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: flushed out way more than the Navy are in Avatar.

1087
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: It's like when I watched Dances with Wolves when I

1088
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: was very young. I really liked the movie because there

1089
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 1: was kind of a Catharsis of I don't like Kevin

1090
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: Costner and I don't really look like Kevin Costner, but

1091
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: to see someone who kind of looks like me being

1092
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,799
Speaker 1: accepted in a group of people who look like my dad,

1093
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, was kind of like really special. And especially

1094
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: with the stands with the Fisk character. But even then,

1095
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: it's like Graham Green's character, who is a holy man

1096
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: in that movie. He's hilarious, he's wonderful, he's dignified, he's

1097
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: open to communication, but he's also like, you know, why

1098
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: is this guy rolling around on the ground with like

1099
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: that thing on his shirt? And then the other native

1100
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 1: character whose name I forgot, but he's very much like

1101
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: this dude's fucking crazy. Let's leave, you know, and I'm

1102
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 1: not afraid of you. You know, like the time spent

1103
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: in the village, what those characters are more sympathetic and interesting.

1104
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,600
Speaker 1: You really don't get that an avatar, no matter how

1105
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: sympathetic or understanding they're trying to be, because like, does

1106
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 1: NATTERI have brothers and sisters? Does she have friends? Does

1107
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 1: she have anties? Like you just nothing know so little,

1108
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: to the point where like her parents are important characters,

1109
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: but I only mentioned each of them like twice in

1110
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: the recap, and I so like they're just they're not

1111
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: that They're pretty secondary honestly to this story. And it's

1112
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 1: really only Naterie who we get any real insight into.

1113
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: And despite Zowey Sodanna's incredible performance, we still don't get

1114
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: that much about her backstory, about her life. We know

1115
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: a little bit about what is in store for her future. Um,

1116
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,719
Speaker 1: she's going to take over the role as like spiritual

1117
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: leader for her mother, but like, we don't know that much.

1118
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: And then speaking of speaking of indigenous actors playing characters,

1119
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: so the actors who play the Alma Takaya characters. Um

1120
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: of the ones who get speaking roles, they're mostly black actors,

1121
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 1: except with one exception of West Study, who plays Naterie's father,

1122
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: A Tookan. He is an actor of the Cherokee Nation.

1123
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: But it seems to me and correct me if I'm

1124
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:05,600
Speaker 1: misinterpreting this, but it feels like a lot of the

1125
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: imagery and iconography they're pulling from as far as just

1126
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: like cultural things, historical things about the Alma Takaya seem

1127
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 1: to be pulled from indigenous people of Northern America, So

1128
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: it feels weird to not cast more Native Americans in

1129
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,640
Speaker 1: those roles. And if they're playing a character that's not

1130
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: even human, you know, like if it's going to be

1131
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: indigenous coded, then there's so many indigenous people that you

1132
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: could reach out to. You could cast Sami actors, you

1133
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 1: could cast Maudi actors or why. It could be the

1134
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 1: whole spectrum of indigenous people, But it would be nice

1135
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: to see them as humans. Took Well, that's the thing.

1136
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:51,839
Speaker 1: Is like on top of that, it's like, how often

1137
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: like people of color in general, but you know, specifically

1138
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 1: Indigenous Americans are Indigenous people in general, are like other

1139
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,759
Speaker 1: in I mean, this is like a pretty aggressive mothering

1140
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 1: of I don't know. Yeah, we're curiously science fiction. Yeah, yes, exactly,

1141
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 1: especially since colonizers use language and rhetoric against indigenous people

1142
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: to justify killing them and stealing from them. And one

1143
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: of the ways they do that is to reduce them

1144
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: or liken them to animals, and so to make the

1145
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:35,799
Speaker 1: Almatya have animal features, pentacle porn cats. This is the mark,

1146
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: just a bit the other thing. Okay, so even back then,

1147
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,600
Speaker 1: the thing that makes me just cringe the most, it's like,

1148
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,839
Speaker 1: you you've got cat people, I know their native coded

1149
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: Why are they leallying? I mean, I know there's an

1150
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: actual word for it. I just forgot what it is.

1151
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: But it's where I'm going to move away from my mic. It's, yes,

1152
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: why why are they doing that? They're cats? Right, like

1153
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: they're cats. They should be saying even the even that

1154
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: thing that they do that, you know what I mean,

1155
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, I I saw a lot of criticisms

1156
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: around the battle cries that seemed kind of like randomly

1157
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: and offensively selected for the Omedicaiah, And yeah, I haven't

1158
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: seen an effective argument against it, Like it just seems

1159
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 1: like that was a straight up offensive, lazy, shitty choice.

1160
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 1: It just made me. I was like, oh, you know,

1161
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 1: first time I saw it too. Every time I see it,

1162
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, why are you doing that? That's so strange.

1163
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 1: There's a whole montage where it's like just that over

1164
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: and over and over and over and and and then

1165
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 1: the context of that scene is that Jake Sully is

1166
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:57,759
Speaker 1: randomly the general now like that was. He just shows

1167
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: up on his large pterodactyl and he's like, I'm the captain.

1168
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: We're left to think that, like there is some collaboration

1169
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: going on between Jake and Suit, but it seems like

1170
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Jake is in charge

1171
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: because Jake like walkie talkies ton A ri at the

1172
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 1: peak of the action, it says that's an order. I

1173
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: was like, dude, you don't. You're not stop, You're not

1174
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: in charge. You just got here. You can't make an order.

1175
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: And I mean, speaking of cat like features of the

1176
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:33,480
Speaker 1: Oma ta Kaya people, there's I think a whole conversation

1177
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: around their character design. I mean, there's like a lot

1178
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: of things to unpack as far as like lack of

1179
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: body diversity, costume design, skin color, just like everything that

1180
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 1: encompasses the character design of the Navy or the Ama

1181
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 1: ta kaya. So friend of the show, I just want

1182
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: a quickly shot. Friend of the show Janish Meeting has

1183
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 1: pointed this out for years, is the lack of body

1184
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: diversity in avatar characters. And it's also um because she's

1185
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: the funniest person ever, like turned it into a bit

1186
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 1: um where she's like, I'm going to get cast as

1187
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: a Navy and the game's gonna change, but like she's

1188
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: she was the first person I heard talking about that,

1189
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: because there already think so many like problematic elements to

1190
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 1: the way the Navy are designed that that sort of

1191
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 1: gets overlooked a lot of the time. Well not only that, um,

1192
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: elders play such an important role in indigenous community. So

1193
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 1: the fact that we don't really see like an elderly

1194
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 1: navvy character, you know other than the terries parents or

1195
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, like not everyone in a society like this

1196
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: is a warrior, you know, So what do they look

1197
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: like when they're not in like peak shape all the time.

1198
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 1: And what about the warriors who um, you know get

1199
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 1: hurt or get injured or are disabled or something, what

1200
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 1: they're a bad hunt and the dinosaur thing bite your

1201
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: arm off, right, We don't see any of that, and

1202
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: it would have been interesting to see Jake like interact

1203
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: with some of those veterans you know. Actually, right, so

1204
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: many like overlaps between Jake and Navy culture that just

1205
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: just goes completely unexplored by this, uh, by this movie, right, Yeah.

1206
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: And then yeah, as far as like just the body type,

1207
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 1: every single Navy person has the same exact body type,

1208
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: so they all have frog butts. Theyll frog butts. There's

1209
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 1: not a booty to be found. Well, I think that that,

1210
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: Like I kind of wonder. I've watched a lot of

1211
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 1: behind the scenes features on this movie in the past,

1212
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 1: and I like, I know that it's kind of tricky

1213
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: because in some ways, I want to say that they're

1214
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: almost animated characters. I know that it's motion capture. So

1215
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: it's like it's either animation trips we've talked about before

1216
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 1: where it's like very rigid two body types available, which

1217
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 1: I think does kind of carry through this movie, or

1218
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 1: it's a casting issue and they only cast to body types.

1219
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: So either way, it's you know, a fucking wash and

1220
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: you know, like it just I don't know, it doesn't

1221
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: just like reinforce um rigid stereotypes we see all the time.

1222
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: It also like lessons the richness of Pandora because you're

1223
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: just like completely ali, like what what are other people

1224
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: up to? Like it? Can't they appear to be thriving?

1225
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 1: You would think there are other things and elements of

1226
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: this culture that just are like not referenced or explored

1227
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: at all. And don't cants always have like that, you know,

1228
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: belly fat that like flops the run and they famously

1229
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: have eight nipples, So why don't they Alma Takaya have

1230
01:19:55,880 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: eight nipples? They just have tentacles nipples on the nipples scales, um.

1231
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: And then as far as and this is something I

1232
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: think we've touched on in different episodes in the past,

1233
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: but there's a pretty um a precedent has been set

1234
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: somewhere along the line that in sci fi and fantasy,

1235
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,799
Speaker 1: especially because these are the genres where you would usually

1236
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 1: have like non human human like characters. So in this case,

1237
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 1: the Novi, the Alma Takaya have blue skin. And this

1238
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 1: is something we see a lot where um, you know,

1239
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: like humanoid characters who are coded as indigenous, they're coded

1240
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: as people of color in general, they will have blueskin,

1241
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,640
Speaker 1: green skin, purple skin, some skin color that does not

1242
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: exist on humans, and um, just like kind of further

1243
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: others these characters who are coded as people of color.

1244
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: And I noticed that this is something that happens a

1245
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 1: lot in sci fi, where even if they cast like

1246
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 1: an actress of color, they usually cast her as an alien,

1247
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:12,440
Speaker 1: like even um Star Trek, which is pretty diverse anyways.

1248
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,840
Speaker 1: And I'm referring to like the J. J. Abrams movies

1249
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:20,719
Speaker 1: because I am not a tricky how Dare You? Also

1250
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,799
Speaker 1: starring Zoe's Seldonna, but this time she gets to actually

1251
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:28,440
Speaker 1: have her actual skin, Carna skin. But but Sophia Botella,

1252
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 1: I think that's how you say her name. And the

1253
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 1: third movie is an alien with white skin, but she

1254
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: looks awesome and she's great, but you know, like it's

1255
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 1: not her also, but it's always held Donna, and like

1256
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:49,679
Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy has green skin, and uh, I

1257
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 1: love costume and makeup designs and stuff like that, especially

1258
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: when you're making monsters like Doug Jones is a fucking

1259
01:21:56,479 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: g and I love how Boy and everything, but it

1260
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 1: is a trope I've noticed like a lot, even in

1261
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 1: Star Wars. It's like you get Lupetea n Ago when

1262
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: you make her that ugly little alien. God do it.

1263
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 1: I will never get over that. I just like you

1264
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: did what with that casting decision? You did nothing, nothing

1265
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: with the casting decision, the most beautiful, talented person and

1266
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 1: you did what there. I was, Yeah, I don't even

1267
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 1: give a shit about Star Wars particularly, but I was

1268
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: enraged to fight that. I would also be curious to

1269
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: hear what listeners think on that issue, because I don't know.

1270
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: I've seen that point made about Zoe Salbanda's career quite

1271
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: a bit of like her too biggest or you know,

1272
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: I guess best remembered roles. Although there are those crossheads

1273
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: people out there, those cross roads cross the cross Heads

1274
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 1: from hell. Um, Okay, two SIPs of Miller Lite and

1275
01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm cooked. Um. But yeah, I like I I

1276
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 1: think that that is like absolutely no accident. And I

1277
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: wish that sci fi were at a place where, like

1278
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: you know, sci fi can be like in a really

1279
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:16,280
Speaker 1: amazing place to explore like more diverse world. If you

1280
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: have diverse voices, they're also behind the camera, which is

1281
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: not really happening in Avatar. And I think the you

1282
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: always run the risk of racial stereotyping anytime you code

1283
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 1: non human species as an existing group of actual people.

1284
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: I think Frozen two and even Avatar The Last Airbender

1285
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 1: do this better, where it's like, yes, they're coded as

1286
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: Inuit or they're coded as Sammy, but they're not you know,

1287
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: their water tribe, their Nothaldra, you know so, but they're people.

1288
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:57,520
Speaker 1: You know, they're like actual human characters, even if the

1289
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: tribe or the races is not. I hope I said

1290
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 1: that correctly. No, I know what you mean. Yeah, And

1291
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be as much of a concern if in

1292
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 1: these genres you had white actors also playing like, you know,

1293
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: blue skinned aliens, like it wouldn't be And then and

1294
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: that there was no specific like racial coding attached to

1295
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 1: any any of the characters. It's just like, this is

1296
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: just a person, like a doctrine with purple right, Doug Jones.

1297
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: Doug Jones, folks, he's a sexy fish, the sex. But

1298
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: because the trend tends to be that only bipoc actors

1299
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,680
Speaker 1: are cast in these roles where their skin is a

1300
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: is you know, some color of the rainbow, and their

1301
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: character is coded as like another race. It's also because

1302
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: it's generally by like white writers and directors that are

1303
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: making that decision. Like that is a huge element of

1304
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it does Like the way James

1305
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 1: Cameron is doing it seems like a trophy, overwrought, like lazy,

1306
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of pretty offensive like storytelling trope, Like it's not

1307
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: he's not doing anything new here. Yeah, it would have

1308
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: more gravity if it was by a writer who was

1309
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 1: Indigenous or otherwise marginalized, right, I think. And then as

1310
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 1: far as the costume design goes, Um, I'm curious about

1311
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:33,600
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this alley, But the nov across the

1312
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 1: gender spectrum of the nov, they're all like pretty scantily

1313
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 1: clad as far as their costume goes, Yes, the two

1314
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 1: body types are scantily clad. You can see all of

1315
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: their blueskin basically. And there is definitely another media trend

1316
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: where Indigenous women we see this time and time again

1317
01:25:56,120 --> 01:26:02,600
Speaker 1: are hyper hyper sexualized in meat. Yeah, I don't know

1318
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 1: exactly if that's what's happening here. I'm just so I'm

1319
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:08,599
Speaker 1: just curious to your thoughts. So, um, this is kind

1320
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 1: of okay. So if you talk to one Indigenous person

1321
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: who've only talked to one Indigenous person. So this is

1322
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: just me personally. UM Connor Beard on TikTok, who's from

1323
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: the Lumbi tribe. I think I mentioned him earlier. He's

1324
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 1: doing a series of TikTok videos about Avatar and racism

1325
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:31,560
Speaker 1: in it and tropes in it that are anti Indigenous,

1326
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: and I can co sign on most of them. I

1327
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: think he makes really good points. But he released and

1328
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 1: I say this respectfully. Um, he released a recent TikTok

1329
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 1: talking about how avatar uh fetishizes and sexualizes Native women,

1330
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: and I get it, but I don't agree entirely because, UM,

1331
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: I personally have a rule where if male and female

1332
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 1: characters are wearing the same costume, the costume itself isn't

1333
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: inherently sexualized. UM Like, Black Widow and Captain America are

1334
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: basically wearing the same unitard. It's just Black Widow was

1335
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: filmed differently, you know, So it's not really the costume

1336
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: that's the problem. UM. Like, someone I forgot who it was.

1337
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: I think it was a pop culture detective was talking

1338
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 1: about how Cora in tron Legacy is sexualized and I

1339
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,160
Speaker 1: did not agree with that either. I'm like, she's wearing

1340
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 1: the same thing everybody else is wearing, and she's never

1341
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 1: really objectified by the camera, because there's a difference between

1342
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 1: like a character just being really sexy on the screen

1343
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: and the filmmakers and the filmmaking actively sexualizing that character.

1344
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: I watched that same TikTok um from Connor Beard, and

1345
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: he points out that in the screenplay for Avatar. So

1346
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 1: this makes me kind of think that James Cameron is

1347
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 1: actively sexualizing especially n No. I hate reading I hate

1348
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: reading James Cameron's writing. It's so stressful. Do you remember

1349
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:18,599
Speaker 1: that thing from Titanic where she falls under his welcome weight.

1350
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: I will never stop thinking about the phrase welcome weight

1351
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 1: written by a fifty year old man. I just can't

1352
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: even Okay, what did he say? What did you say?

1353
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: I at least it translates well to strain, But he's like,

1354
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 1: I don't even think it's like an unpopular opinion to

1355
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: say that James Cameron is like a pretty bad writer.

1356
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,720
Speaker 1: He's just got he's got a lot of chops where

1357
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,799
Speaker 1: he's got a lot of chops. And then he also

1358
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 1: writes the movie he and then he writes what we're

1359
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 1: about welcome here? Okay, sorry, sorry, So This is for

1360
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:00,720
Speaker 1: Naterie's character introduction, which in a screen generally has a

1361
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: little bit more detail um about like the character visually,

1362
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,719
Speaker 1: like what the character looks like. So quote, Jake passes

1363
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 1: under a tree limb invisible to him, draped on the

1364
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: limb like a leopard. Is a striking, navvy girl. She

1365
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,599
Speaker 1: watches only her eyes moving. She is life as a

1366
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: cat with a long neck, muscular shoulders, and nubile breasts.

1367
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 1: And she is devastatingly beautiful for a girl with a tail.

1368
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 1: Oh my, Jim, So do they ever mentioned the size

1369
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,759
Speaker 1: of Jake's dick and he's going into his aftar body

1370
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: because not that that's telling exactly. Yeah, where's the reciprocity.

1371
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 1: Jim's going to horny jail? Again, there's one more sentence

1372
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 1: that is upsetting. In human age, she would be eighteen,

1373
01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 1: so she is young, young young Jake Sully is what

1374
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: in his thirties, mid to late thirties, probably he could

1375
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:09,040
Speaker 1: be a strong c W thirty one, you know, Dad,

1376
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:15,160
Speaker 1: So that it is creepy. So like I I because

1377
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 1: I think that that is a really good rule of

1378
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 1: thumb that you're describing alley of like if there is

1379
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:23,879
Speaker 1: because it's also like you, like James Cameron writes creepy.

1380
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 1: We've discussed it on the show before. It seems particularly

1381
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 1: pointed in this in this example, because he's you know,

1382
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 1: like writing about an Indigenous woman who's eighteen like man,

1383
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: there was like a lot of I'm glad that there's

1384
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: like a diversity of opinion on this, because I do

1385
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: think that, like the movie does not objectify Naterie the

1386
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: way that that couple of sentence run would imply that

1387
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:53,759
Speaker 1: it would based on how creepy he's being. I didn't

1388
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: feel that creepiness in the camera or in the film language.

1389
01:30:58,040 --> 01:30:59,560
Speaker 1: I think that that is like, in spite of the

1390
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 1: fact that he's like a creepy writer, he's not a

1391
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 1: creepy filmmaker, which is, you know, an oversimplification. I'm sure

1392
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 1: he's had his creepy moments, but and he's made like

1393
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: R rated movies too, So if he really wanted to

1394
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 1: be creepy, he could have really been creepy and his

1395
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: other But but then on the other hand, it's I mean,

1396
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 1: I know that we sort of have spent a lot

1397
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: of this episode unraveling, like the way that like comparing

1398
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: Avatar to disney Spokehontas is a vast oversimplification, but because

1399
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 1: it's like the nav characters are like somewhat animated or like,

1400
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe motion capture really, but

1401
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:41,240
Speaker 1: she looks more like a cat than a person, So

1402
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 1: it's not it doesn't I feel like Pocahontas like Disney's Pokehonas.

1403
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 1: Even Shell or Shell from the Road to Eldorado. I

1404
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: think that's way more offensive than the Terry because I

1405
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: would say that that is hyper sexualized and objectified more

1406
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: than nay Terry, because I also don't think that nudity

1407
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: is inherently sexual either, And the really the only time

1408
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 1: Nateri is ever like sexy on screen is when she's

1409
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 1: having sex, which you know, hopefully kind of the best

1410
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 1: time to be sexy is during sex. Wow, yeah, kind

1411
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,320
Speaker 1: of weird if you're not. And even during the weird

1412
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 1: tentacle sex thing. I mean it's more romantic than sexy. Um,

1413
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 1: I guess yes. But like a worse example of this

1414
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 1: would be in Terrence Malix film The New World, where

1415
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: Koreanka Kulture, who is fourteen years old, is way more

1416
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: sexualized with her to grown male counter counter stars co stars,

1417
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 1: co stars, that's the word that counter stars. Yes, so

1418
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:02,160
Speaker 1: fourteen year old Koreanka culture with that, Christian Bale and

1419
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 1: Colin Farrell, And excuse a blame, I still have not

1420
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 1: been able to bring myself to watch that one because

1421
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 1: everything I hear about it is just disgusting. She's beautiful

1422
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 1: and she's wonderful, but god, baby girl, I'm sorry. I'm

1423
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: so sorry, ugly ass bitch like Terance Bald, what do

1424
01:33:21,439 --> 01:33:28,120
Speaker 1: you do that, you fucking evil? One last thing, I'm

1425
01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 1: and then then I promise I'll stop dragging Connor. But

1426
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 1: there was one more line that he says in that

1427
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: TikTok where so it's a line where NATII tells him,

1428
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:43,599
Speaker 1: you know you're Alma Takaya now and you can make

1429
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 1: your bow from home tree and you can choose a woman,

1430
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:51,680
Speaker 1: and he, you know, Jake's like, already chose, but this

1431
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: woman must choose me, And Connor feared makes the argument

1432
01:33:56,439 --> 01:34:01,519
Speaker 1: that Jake is the one being progressive and the yes

1433
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: the one being primitive. And I think that this is

1434
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: where context matters, because the Navy, with all other problems,

1435
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: are very egalitarian, and I don't think the women are

1436
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you only exist to be chosen by

1437
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: these dudes, you know, because then why would there be

1438
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 1: women warriors? And I think it's also cousny Terry's engaged,

1439
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 1: so he's like, hey, do you want to come with me?

1440
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: Or you know, I know who I've chosen, but do

1441
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: you choose me? And I don't know. It's like I

1442
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't think that was Yeah, I don't know. I hear

1443
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 1: you on that, like I mean, and I think that

1444
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:42,760
Speaker 1: like the best. I mean, you said it yourself. Like

1445
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,879
Speaker 1: the fact that she is engaged is not really harped

1446
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 1: on by the movie, which I appreciated because that's like

1447
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:51,360
Speaker 1: a really annoying trope to like get in the mire of.

1448
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 1: But it's like it makes sense that it would be

1449
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,639
Speaker 1: sort of like tacitly brought up in that conversation, because

1450
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:04,000
Speaker 1: be weird if Jake didn't try to tacitly acknowledge like that,

1451
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 1: it's sort of him the way that Jack Dawson is

1452
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:11,200
Speaker 1: like do you love him? It's just a simple question,

1453
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 1: do you love the guy or not? And Rose is like,

1454
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: this is not a suitable conversation. But but Jack was

1455
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 1: being being very rude. Jack was being a little devil

1456
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,599
Speaker 1: in that conversation because he was being agro and not

1457
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 1: to hand it to Jake Sally, I don't do it

1458
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 1: and I hate to do it, but but you know,

1459
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 1: Jake doesn't get agro about it. It's like a it's

1460
01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: a conversation. It's not like cornering you in the gym

1461
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:37,759
Speaker 1: of the Titan. I'm just merely pointing out that James

1462
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:40,559
Speaker 1: Cameron keeps writing more or less the same scene over

1463
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,719
Speaker 1: he loves, he loves this one movie that he writes.

1464
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:50,400
Speaker 1: And UM, my last question as it relates to the

1465
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 1: character design of the Alma Takaya, is I wasn't sure

1466
01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:00,839
Speaker 1: if James Cameron was referencing any specific into genius culture

1467
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 1: or cultures or nations with the Alma Takaya or is

1468
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 1: he just sort of like treating indigenous people as a

1469
01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:13,640
Speaker 1: monolith and like just kind of making several aesthetic references

1470
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: and kind of lumping them all together. And like, I

1471
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 1: don't know what's your thought on that A bit of

1472
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:23,520
Speaker 1: column A and column B, Like it feels very outsiders

1473
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: perspective because it is when I first saw the movie, Um,

1474
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 1: it felt like I don't know if you've ever seen Apocalypto,

1475
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 1: but it kind of reminded me of that where it was.

1476
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 1: I assumed, since they're in a rainforest and the nab

1477
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,840
Speaker 1: don't wear a lot of clothing, that it was probably

1478
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 1: inspired by a South American or Mesoamerican indigenous culture. I

1479
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 1: haven't found anything that suggested that. What I have found was, um,

1480
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 1: a lot of inspiration is from Maudi people from New

1481
01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 1: Zealand and even in U the trailers for the Way

1482
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:07,799
Speaker 1: of Water, I noticed that a lot of the facial

1483
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 1: tattoos on some of the New nav characters looked very

1484
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:14,599
Speaker 1: much like the same ones from Polynesian cultures. Yeah, from

1485
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 1: what I've heard of and and read a little bit

1486
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,080
Speaker 1: about the second movie, it seems like Cameron takes that

1487
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:23,720
Speaker 1: direction a little more decisively in the second movie. How

1488
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 1: effective it is or how respectful it is, I don't know,

1489
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:30,320
Speaker 1: but that I was. I was going through like old

1490
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: features trying to see if there was because there's so

1491
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:36,280
Speaker 1: much written about certain elements of production. But that was

1492
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 1: not something I was able to really find. And I

1493
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:43,439
Speaker 1: know that there is this tendency. Um. We were talking

1494
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: about this with Olivia Woodward a while ago about just

1495
01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: like this tendency to take so many unique indigenous cultures

1496
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: and just like lump them all into one vague, you know,

1497
01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 1: kind of trophy interpretation, which I don't know if that's

1498
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 1: really what I mean. I I just kind of struggled

1499
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:05,679
Speaker 1: to find information on what he was doing. Right well,

1500
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 1: when I first saw the movie two thousand nine in

1501
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 1: the theater, there were several scenes five like major events

1502
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 1: in the film that I think mirror actual historical events

1503
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 1: in like a broader Native American history. So obviously invading

1504
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 1: Pandora is any It could be Columbus, it could be

1505
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 1: the British, it could be the French, it could be

1506
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 1: leif Ericson, you know, like any invasion colonialism, you know

1507
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:43,759
Speaker 1: that's happening. Um. Obviously, there are elements that are probably

1508
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:49,680
Speaker 1: inspired by Pocahontas and Jamestown and the Powetan nation interacting

1509
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaker 1: with the settlers, especially since John Smith, when he was kidnapped,

1510
01:38:55,880 --> 01:39:00,040
Speaker 1: was accepted into the tribe as kind of like a

1511
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:05,559
Speaker 1: honorary member to like, you know, build diplomacy. The image

1512
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:09,000
Speaker 1: of Pocahontas, like resting her head on him and saving

1513
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: him is kind of more of like an initiation, kind

1514
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 1: of like she's his godmother to compare it to anything. Uh,

1515
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:22,439
Speaker 1: don't quote me on that one, since I'm not from

1516
01:39:22,479 --> 01:39:26,799
Speaker 1: those tribes, but that's my understanding of it. Any big

1517
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:30,879
Speaker 1: massacre scene, but you know, a home tree getting destroyed

1518
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 1: felt like it could have been wounded me. It could

1519
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 1: have been sand Creek. It could have been any attack,

1520
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 1: any massacre really, and then you have the trail of

1521
01:39:41,200 --> 01:39:48,320
Speaker 1: tears afterwards. Were forcibly relocating indigenous people, um any death march,

1522
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:52,479
Speaker 1: any long walks, you know. I was and again it

1523
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 1: was like it was just hard to find any like

1524
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: hard confirmation, But I kind of assumed that that was

1525
01:39:57,240 --> 01:40:00,080
Speaker 1: what Cameron was trying to reference, even in the a

1526
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:03,280
Speaker 1: that Giovanni Ribisi's character was talking about it like oh,

1527
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. It's like a relocation. It's

1528
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,080
Speaker 1: not like I was like, Okay, this is kind of

1529
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 1: clearly mapped on peacefully negotiate their relocation. It's like, there's

1530
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 1: no peaceful negotiation forcibly relocating. But the last one, which

1531
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: surprised me, and I'm happy that it ended like this

1532
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: was I feel like the final battle in Avatar, like

1533
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 1: the big climatic, awesome battle, felt like it was a

1534
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 1: big allegory to the Battle of a Little Big Horn

1535
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 1: or the Battle of Greasy Grass where the Lakota sue

1536
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 1: and the Cheyenne one a battle against General Custer and

1537
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 1: the U. S Army, and um, they did that because

1538
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 1: Custer thought that he was going to ambush them and

1539
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:52,240
Speaker 1: murder all of them. And no, there's five thousand of

1540
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 1: us and you're dying today. And the person who shot

1541
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:00,200
Speaker 1: him off of his horse was a woman fun by

1542
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:12,599
Speaker 1: Buffalo calf road woman. So that pleases me. I didn't

1543
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 1: realize that's that's amazing. Yeah, she's the one who shot

1544
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,960
Speaker 1: him off of his horse and probably delivered the killing blow.

1545
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:22,560
Speaker 1: And afterwards the other women took like little needles or

1546
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:26,240
Speaker 1: whatever and poked out his ear drums. And that's where

1547
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:30,080
Speaker 1: the phrase, uh, that's where the phrase see what happens

1548
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 1: where you don't listen comes from. A So it sounds

1549
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: to me like James Cameron is pulling not only from

1550
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 1: like a design point of view of the of the

1551
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 1: Alma Takaya, but also from just like narrative events in

1552
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 1: the movie Avatar. He's pulling from a lot of different nations. So,

1553
01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: I mean, allegory in storytelling is like you know that

1554
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 1: tends to happen where like you're you might be kind

1555
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 1: of referencing something it's an allegorical probably be weirder if

1556
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 1: you didn't pull from actual history. Like, it's not inherently

1557
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:12,679
Speaker 1: negative that he did that, right, it's just the mess.

1558
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 1: It's just that, And it's the outsider's perspective that I

1559
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:20,920
Speaker 1: think is really Yeah, and uh, well, I mean Indigenous

1560
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:25,480
Speaker 1: people globally have a lot of shared experiences with colonialism

1561
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:32,200
Speaker 1: and racism and environmental oppression and damage also, so I

1562
01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 1: can see how kind of blending it together because it

1563
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:38,680
Speaker 1: all kind of blows together makes sense. I feel like

1564
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:41,560
Speaker 1: it probably could have been done a little more ethically,

1565
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:44,799
Speaker 1: and the way to do that would be the higher

1566
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:52,599
Speaker 1: native writers to write about the allegory. Um what else?

1567
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:56,840
Speaker 1: Another thing I would change is that a fangirl Gene.

1568
01:42:57,160 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 1: I hope I'm pronouncing her name right. I think it's

1569
01:42:59,120 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 1: pronounced gene, but I think it's also pronounced jean j

1570
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:08,719
Speaker 1: e a and n e f jean. Oh my, please

1571
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:13,719
Speaker 1: don't kill me, fangro Jean. Anyway, she uh was talking

1572
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:16,080
Speaker 1: about how she kind of likes and dislikes Avatar in

1573
01:43:16,120 --> 01:43:19,040
Speaker 1: the same way as I do, but she's like Jake

1574
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 1: should not have been allowed to stay period if he

1575
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 1: was going to, And I feel like that would have

1576
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 1: lended itself to the story a little bit better and

1577
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 1: the sincerity of the character where they're like, listen, we

1578
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 1: appreciate your help, but you put us in this situation,

1579
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 1: so at the end of all things, you can't sit

1580
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:43,439
Speaker 1: with us anymore. So if it would have, at the

1581
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 1: very least it should have and he should be okay

1582
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 1: with it, if he's as good as he thinks he is,

1583
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:51,280
Speaker 1: then that would have been like, that's fair, Okay, you

1584
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 1: don't get to stay with us. Yeah, I fucked up.

1585
01:43:53,920 --> 01:44:01,320
Speaker 1: I'll see myself out. Yeah, I will say your brother's funeral, Jake, Yeah, jeez,

1586
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:06,000
Speaker 1: I will say. Um. This is my hot take is

1587
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:11,479
Speaker 1: that I think, not that his story is good, not

1588
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 1: that his redemption arc is good, but all things consider,

1589
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Jake's redemption arc is more satisfying or better than a

1590
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:26,800
Speaker 1: redemption arc for like Kylo Wren, for example, because at

1591
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 1: the end of the day, even though Kyleo Wren or

1592
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:32,280
Speaker 1: even Darth Vader turned from the dark side and do

1593
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:35,120
Speaker 1: the right thing at the last moment, they die right

1594
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 1: after and they don't undo all the damage that they did.

1595
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:43,759
Speaker 1: They may have stopped or prevented more damage, which good,

1596
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 1: but they never face the people that they hurt. They

1597
01:44:47,479 --> 01:44:53,240
Speaker 1: never like face any repercussions or consequences for the harm

1598
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:57,799
Speaker 1: that they've caused. So, Jake, even though it's not great,

1599
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:01,800
Speaker 1: he's still it has to prove himself if he's going

1600
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 1: to show his face again. And when he does the

1601
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 1: right thing, eventually it's like his friends die, people get hurt.

1602
01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 1: He can never go back to his planet again. He

1603
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:15,439
Speaker 1: can never you know. So there's a whole lot at

1604
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 1: stake that, you know, a lot of sacrifices that was

1605
01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:21,760
Speaker 1: made for him to do the right thing. He does

1606
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:26,400
Speaker 1: have to do a lot to actually have a redemption.

1607
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:32,160
Speaker 1: But he like centers himself so consistently throughout it that

1608
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 1: he's like I'm the boss now, and you're he's like

1609
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:37,880
Speaker 1: or like yeah that it's I mean, which is maybe

1610
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:43,519
Speaker 1: like realistic, super macho white male behavior, but like, yeah,

1611
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:46,320
Speaker 1: the fact that he's like, Okay, I like, I totally agree.

1612
01:45:46,360 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 1: It's good that he recognizes that he can't just like

1613
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:55,679
Speaker 1: something has to be done to try to mitigate this tragedy.

1614
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:59,640
Speaker 1: That is in a huge part his fault, but his

1615
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:02,960
Speaker 1: ocean is like I have to be the lead captain

1616
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:08,240
Speaker 1: of And then he's rewarded by being like, Okay, you're deaf.

1617
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:11,800
Speaker 1: You're one of us again, and you're permanently one of us,

1618
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:14,720
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do this like spiritual ceremony to make

1619
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 1: you shud be back on a trial basis at very

1620
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:23,320
Speaker 1: least like for real. It's like you're answering for crimes

1621
01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:30,800
Speaker 1: against right. Hey, here's another question I have for you, ali, Um.

1622
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:34,639
Speaker 1: Throughout the movie, there's a lot of emphasis on the

1623
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:38,680
Speaker 1: Alma Takaya's connection to the earth and this like spiritual

1624
01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: connection to the wildlife the floor and the fauna, and

1625
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 1: obviously pulling from you know, indigenous culture in the connection

1626
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: that indigenous people have with the earth. But the movie

1627
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: introduces this like kind of sci fi fantasy element to

1628
01:46:56,280 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: that with like the tentacle angling network and then yeah,

1629
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,720
Speaker 1: and and I'm just curious about your thoughts about that

1630
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: and what implications you think that has good or bad

1631
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:16,839
Speaker 1: or neutral. Okay, this is why Natives need to make stuff.

1632
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 1: Kim Natives the same budget, and we will make something

1633
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 1: better than Avatar. I promise. I promise, Um, because I

1634
01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 1: mean to James Cameron's credit, he's been an environmentalist activists

1635
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 1: since like high school, so there are good intentions there.

1636
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:42,040
Speaker 1: He Um said in an interview very recently. I think

1637
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:44,439
Speaker 1: it was like James Cameron breaks down his most iconic

1638
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 1: roles or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, he Um was

1639
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,960
Speaker 1: talking about like as he was making Avatar, He's like

1640
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:55,479
Speaker 1: Indigenous people were reaching out and saying, you know, a

1641
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:59,479
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that's happening in your movie is

1642
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:02,679
Speaker 1: happening in real life in our community. So there were

1643
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:07,559
Speaker 1: things like UM and even Sophia yanoku'sa Sami activists UM,

1644
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:11,479
Speaker 1: when she gave her TED talk about mining companies in

1645
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:15,800
Speaker 1: Lapland in Sami territories and the damage that had done,

1646
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:22,120
Speaker 1: she said that Avatar felt like that, Like she definitely

1647
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:28,000
Speaker 1: resonated with the damage that's done to these um ecosystems

1648
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:32,160
Speaker 1: and these sacred territories and everything, and how Avatar has

1649
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:35,639
Speaker 1: a happy ending, but in real life, we're still fighting

1650
01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:39,680
Speaker 1: in Lapland, and the same can be said in like

1651
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:45,520
Speaker 1: Brazil and Standing Rock, West Uotan and all these other places.

1652
01:48:46,320 --> 01:48:50,400
Speaker 1: And when you think of like just the spiritual aspect

1653
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 1: in Pandora, I mean it's a movie, so they kind

1654
01:48:53,080 --> 01:48:57,759
Speaker 1: of have to ham it up. But I mean people

1655
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:03,679
Speaker 1: are not like usually in indigenous cultures or the way

1656
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:06,760
Speaker 1: that we believe in these things. People are not at

1657
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:10,400
Speaker 1: the top of the pyramid and then everything is beneath us.

1658
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:13,679
Speaker 1: Indigenous people tend to be stewards of the land who

1659
01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:18,160
Speaker 1: believe that we are actually part of an ecosystem. And

1660
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:20,479
Speaker 1: as much as we need the land, the land also

1661
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:24,280
Speaker 1: needs us to take care of it. And the land

1662
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 1: is very much as alive and as sentient as people

1663
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 1: and as animals. So I see what he was trying

1664
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 1: to do. Uh, he's just kind of it's just kind

1665
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,760
Speaker 1: of out of his element because he's not part of

1666
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:46,520
Speaker 1: the community. You know, there's like a something lost in translation.

1667
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,520
Speaker 1: I guess there's a disconnect because it's so very outsider's perspective,

1668
01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:53,800
Speaker 1: and it's a good idea. I mean, I do like

1669
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 1: the idea of you know, like you can plug your

1670
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:01,920
Speaker 1: tail into the willow tree and here your ancestors singing

1671
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:09,640
Speaker 1: and stuff like. That's beautiful, but not when they're aliens, right,

1672
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 1: It's almost to me it reads is like um an

1673
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:20,120
Speaker 1: outsider's perspective looking at Indigenous spirituality and being like it's

1674
01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 1: so mystical, it's so magical, it's almost science fiction, and

1675
01:50:26,080 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 1: then like so as to be alien and then just

1676
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:32,920
Speaker 1: like leaning into that and then putting it in a movie.

1677
01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and in a way that kind of dehumanizes

1678
01:50:37,160 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: indigenous people that you're trying to be sympathetic towards. Anyways,

1679
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:45,719
Speaker 1: and the deleted scenes. There's a really awesome deleted scene

1680
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:49,640
Speaker 1: where Jake, before he becomes one of the people, undergoes

1681
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:54,040
Speaker 1: a vision quest. I guess I don't know if you've

1682
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 1: seen that. I have not seen that scene. Now. Yeah, it's, um,

1683
01:50:57,880 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 1: it's an incomplete deleted scene and they must have ran

1684
01:51:01,200 --> 01:51:04,679
Speaker 1: out of money because the CG isn't there. But it's

1685
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:07,559
Speaker 1: where he like, um, it's when he tells core Rich

1686
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:10,360
Speaker 1: or Stephen Lane, you know, I have one more thing

1687
01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:12,280
Speaker 1: I have to do and then I'll be one of

1688
01:51:12,360 --> 01:51:14,720
Speaker 1: them and blah blah blah. And then it cuts to

1689
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:18,720
Speaker 1: nay Terry putting the war paint on um and then

1690
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 1: he goes into like this chamber and Moat is like

1691
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:26,599
Speaker 1: lighting the incense and the herbs and stuff, and like

1692
01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:29,600
Speaker 1: this beetle or whatever, like he eats a worm and

1693
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:31,720
Speaker 1: then this beetle like stings him on the back of

1694
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 1: his neck or whatever, and he has a vision quest

1695
01:51:34,120 --> 01:51:38,160
Speaker 1: and when he survives it, they're like, oh, well you're alive,

1696
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:42,360
Speaker 1: so let's all hug and touch each other. But there's

1697
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,320
Speaker 1: a scene where he's talking to Grace before he does it,

1698
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:49,280
Speaker 1: because she's like, dude, you cannot do this because actual

1699
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 1: navvy have died doing this and we have no idea

1700
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,160
Speaker 1: what an avatar is going to do. But it's Jake

1701
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:58,560
Speaker 1: and he has his plat armor, so he'll be fine.

1702
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:02,559
Speaker 1: But the chosen one he can't die. Yeah, he's God,

1703
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:06,240
Speaker 1: he should I should have died in the first second

1704
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:09,680
Speaker 1: when he goes in as an avatar when those like

1705
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:14,360
Speaker 1: rhinoceros like animals are like plowing him over, Like, yeah,

1706
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:17,240
Speaker 1: he should have been done for I found I found

1707
01:52:17,240 --> 01:52:20,519
Speaker 1: it so frustrating. How like anytime n Teria was about

1708
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:23,040
Speaker 1: to bail on him, which was constantly because he sucks,

1709
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 1: Like there's a sign from the from Pandora from Awa

1710
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:32,960
Speaker 1: that Jake's a really cool guy. You're like, oh my god,

1711
01:52:34,560 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 1: in what way? But anyway, So the thing is he

1712
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:42,120
Speaker 1: tells Grace what he's doing, then he goes They don't

1713
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:45,040
Speaker 1: even have a word for lie. They had to learn

1714
01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:49,919
Speaker 1: it from us. I'm like, dude, what, In my opinion,

1715
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,240
Speaker 1: it dehumanizes Indigenous people when you say something, even if

1716
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 1: it's meant to be flattering, Like they don't have a

1717
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:59,599
Speaker 1: word for lie. You know, they don't even lie. That's

1718
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:01,920
Speaker 1: the other side of the coin, for there's no word

1719
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:04,920
Speaker 1: for thank you and doth racky. You don't know what

1720
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like it's another form of just degrading.

1721
01:53:10,160 --> 01:53:13,680
Speaker 1: They cannot possibly comprehend the concept of x y Z

1722
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 1: or that like an indigenous character would not be capable

1723
01:53:16,439 --> 01:53:22,960
Speaker 1: of lying, like the full spectrum of being you know, alive. Yeah, ridiculous.

1724
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 1: I found it interesting. I looked into James Cameron's first

1725
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:30,200
Speaker 1: round of interviews for this movie and then his current interview.

1726
01:53:30,280 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 1: It does seem like I mean, I'm just like, I

1727
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:36,880
Speaker 1: guess I'm just interested in how avatar to works out

1728
01:53:36,920 --> 01:53:38,919
Speaker 1: for him. But in the first one I was curious

1729
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 1: of like how explicitly he was, how explicit he was

1730
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:45,240
Speaker 1: and saying like where his influences were coming from, because

1731
01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:47,519
Speaker 1: this was something he started working on in the nineties,

1732
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:49,960
Speaker 1: like during the production of Titanic. He was it is

1733
01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:55,800
Speaker 1: very nineties environmentalists Captain planet E right, and we were like,

1734
01:53:55,960 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 1: I see the intent, but the follow through is But

1735
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 1: he said, like, I was surprised at how open he was,

1736
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:07,639
Speaker 1: A like being influenced by movies like Dances with Wolves,

1737
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:11,880
Speaker 1: movies like Lawrence of Arabia in terms of a movie

1738
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:15,920
Speaker 1: I like. He He references Princess Mononoke uh several times

1739
01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 1: as another inspiration, but he does kind of explicitly say like, yeah,

1740
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:25,680
Speaker 1: these you know, very white savior sympathetic colonizer stories are

1741
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:28,800
Speaker 1: like ones I was pulling from when I was making

1742
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: this and and so there's that I just wanted to

1743
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 1: share and you can tell, and you can tell, and

1744
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:41,640
Speaker 1: Precess Mononoke does it so much better, just does it

1745
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: so much better. And it also features an indigenous main

1746
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:50,640
Speaker 1: character because Ashitaka is Amish. Love it my indigenous king.

1747
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 1: But uh, okay, so elephant in the room. Let's talk

1748
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:03,920
Speaker 1: about the comparisons may between this movie and Pokehonas, because

1749
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:08,160
Speaker 1: that's usually how everybody dismisses the film. It's Pokehonisan space.

1750
01:55:09,320 --> 01:55:12,760
Speaker 1: Oh and James Cameron also says that he mapped early

1751
01:55:13,240 --> 01:55:17,800
Speaker 1: plots about Materia onto. He says the Pokehontas story. But

1752
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what do you even mean when you

1753
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:22,680
Speaker 1: say that? It sounds like he's he's referring specifically to

1754
01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:26,760
Speaker 1: the Disney version of it, because the real version of

1755
01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 1: that story, you're fifty years old. Yeah, so um so

1756
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 1: to begin, I mean, obviously, the reason I haven't stepped

1757
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:39,600
Speaker 1: up to do a Pokehonas episode is because I'm not

1758
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:43,840
Speaker 1: from her tribe and there's a lot of insight that

1759
01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:49,040
Speaker 1: I cannot provide that someone from her tribe would. But

1760
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, the way I look at it, when people,

1761
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, try to dismiss it as Pokehonisan space, I

1762
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:58,840
Speaker 1: always say, I'm like, Pokehonas is an actual person who

1763
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:04,360
Speaker 1: saw heard and terrible things happened to her, So she

1764
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:07,960
Speaker 1: deserves more respect than that. And these stories are not

1765
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,760
Speaker 1: the same, you know, like full stock. It's like, you know,

1766
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:15,120
Speaker 1: the same way that people make fun of Elizabeth Warren

1767
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 1: and call her Pocahonas, And it's like, you know, you

1768
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:23,480
Speaker 1: can criticize both this film and Elizabeth Warren for numerous

1769
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 1: valid reasons, but you can do it without being racist,

1770
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:30,320
Speaker 1: and you can do it without using an abused child

1771
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 1: as a punchline. But the other thing is is that

1772
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:39,240
Speaker 1: the story of pokeahon Is how it like, actually not

1773
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:43,560
Speaker 1: even the story of Pocahons, but the romanticized account of

1774
01:56:43,640 --> 01:56:46,560
Speaker 1: Pocahonas that people are very familiar with that was used

1775
01:56:46,560 --> 01:56:50,640
Speaker 1: in this movie and the Disney movie and everything is

1776
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:55,040
Speaker 1: much older. And it says there's this article and it's

1777
01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 1: called the pocona Is perplex and it says that it

1778
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:03,040
Speaker 1: was um Originally there was this old Scottish ballad. It

1779
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:05,680
Speaker 1: was called like Lord Bateman and the Turkish King's Daughter,

1780
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:11,120
Speaker 1: and it was this really well known ballad in Europe

1781
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 1: at the time where an English adventurer goes to a

1782
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:20,320
Speaker 1: foreign land and meets like the sultan's daughter or an

1783
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:25,440
Speaker 1: African king's daughter or something, and she's beautiful and when

1784
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 1: he's in a dungeon and he's about to die, she

1785
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:33,000
Speaker 1: saves him and then they fall in love. He goes

1786
01:57:33,080 --> 01:57:36,000
Speaker 1: back to his homeland and she goes after him and

1787
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:38,440
Speaker 1: shows up on his wedding day and they love each

1788
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:43,400
Speaker 1: other even though she's darker. And people who read John

1789
01:57:43,400 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 1: Smith's accounts of his stories in the New World, we're like,

1790
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:52,240
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's that story John Smith. And Pocahonas

1791
01:57:52,400 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 1: is like Lord Bateman and the Turkish king's daughter would

1792
01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:58,080
Speaker 1: be like, you know, oh my god, it's like Jack

1793
01:57:58,160 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 1: and Rhose from Titanic, you know, like it was that level.

1794
01:58:02,520 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 1: So that's what started the whole thing. So there are

1795
01:58:06,200 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: elements where, you know, like you can compare the two,

1796
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:14,960
Speaker 1: but it's not the Pocahonta story specifically, because that is

1797
01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:20,000
Speaker 1: a very different story. When people were, you know, criticizing

1798
01:58:20,040 --> 01:58:23,360
Speaker 1: Avatar for ripping off or seemed to be ripping off

1799
01:58:23,360 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 1: so much from Disney's Pocahontas, and I remember like fern

1800
01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:28,920
Speaker 1: Gully being a thing too that everyone was like, it's

1801
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:33,120
Speaker 1: ripping off a fern gully. And yeah, as I was

1802
01:58:33,160 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 1: watching the movie this time, I was like remembering that criticism,

1803
01:58:38,520 --> 01:58:41,640
Speaker 1: but I was thinking, well, no one was talking about

1804
01:58:41,680 --> 01:58:45,400
Speaker 1: how this movie is just pulling from a lot of

1805
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:51,560
Speaker 1: historical events, like in history. Yeah, yeah, his history, like,

1806
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:54,880
Speaker 1: but that was never part of the mainstream conversation about

1807
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:58,040
Speaker 1: this movie. And yes, as we've discussed, James Cameron did

1808
01:58:58,040 --> 01:59:01,160
Speaker 1: not handle certain things in this movie well, but people

1809
01:59:01,200 --> 01:59:04,800
Speaker 1: were so hung up on similarities to existing movies. But

1810
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:07,880
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of what happens in Avatar, there's

1811
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:12,520
Speaker 1: a very clear historical precedent of colonizers stealing land and

1812
01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 1: committing genocide against Indigenous people for capitalist gain and for power,

1813
01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:21,440
Speaker 1: and that not being part of the conversation about this movie,

1814
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:24,920
Speaker 1: I feel like speaks to what you were saying earlier,

1815
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:27,120
Speaker 1: like at the very beginning of the episode Ali as

1816
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:33,080
Speaker 1: far as like people finding reasons to not like this movie,

1817
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:38,320
Speaker 1: and that it felt very steeped in like anti indigenous racism,

1818
01:59:38,400 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: and the colonizers are very clearly presented as the bad

1819
01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:45,040
Speaker 1: guys in this movie, which is not true of Disney's

1820
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:48,120
Speaker 1: Pocahontas other than it's like I think again, it's like

1821
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:51,200
Speaker 1: colonization the one guy and all the other guys are great,

1822
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:53,840
Speaker 1: and one of them is Christian Bail and you're just like, well,

1823
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,640
Speaker 1: what the fuck? And the guys in that movie are

1824
01:59:56,840 --> 02:00:00,960
Speaker 1: terrible and they're never held account bowl for all of

1825
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:05,640
Speaker 1: singing about killing Indians and stuff like that. So it's like, oh, well,

1826
02:00:05,680 --> 02:00:09,280
Speaker 1: this guy is worse than you because this is your

1827
02:00:09,480 --> 02:00:13,720
Speaker 1: John Smith's friends. So if you work nice, you know,

1828
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:19,320
Speaker 1: and and Avatar doesn't do that right right. I yeah,

1829
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:22,920
Speaker 1: it didn't register for me certainly at the time, but

1830
02:00:23,120 --> 02:00:27,360
Speaker 1: I I I think that the the original backlash to

1831
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean, like whatever, it's problematic on so many levels,

1832
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:33,360
Speaker 1: and I know that word is overused, but first of all,

1833
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:36,400
Speaker 1: it's like, well, it doesn't bode well for James Cameron

1834
02:00:36,440 --> 02:00:40,280
Speaker 1: if he's being criticized for ripping off a famously historically

1835
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:45,600
Speaker 1: abysmal children's movie. That's not great to begin with. But

1836
02:00:45,880 --> 02:00:48,880
Speaker 1: I also feel, yeah, it like speaks ill of the

1837
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:53,080
Speaker 1: general audiences at the time and of film criticism, or

1838
02:00:53,080 --> 02:00:55,480
Speaker 1: at least you know, prominent film critics at the time,

1839
02:00:56,160 --> 02:00:59,400
Speaker 1: which we've talked about a million times always skew white guys,

1840
02:01:00,080 --> 02:01:03,600
Speaker 1: and the the implication there is like, well, we've already

1841
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:06,560
Speaker 1: had a movie that talks about colonialism. We don't need

1842
02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:10,720
Speaker 1: more where you're just like, no, like not to say

1843
02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:15,240
Speaker 1: that Avatar deals with it anywhere, approaching perfectly, but for

1844
02:01:15,280 --> 02:01:20,160
Speaker 1: the conclusion to be like imperialism and colonialism and racism

1845
02:01:20,200 --> 02:01:22,920
Speaker 1: against indigenous populations is like, what, we have that movie,

1846
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 1: we don't need another one. It's like, well, okay, I'll

1847
02:01:24,760 --> 02:01:29,560
Speaker 1: go fund yourself. No, yeah, well I noticed that back then,

1848
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:32,120
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it hasn't gone away. But back then,

1849
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:37,400
Speaker 1: when I was like spite liking it, the white reviewers,

1850
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:42,280
Speaker 1: like on YouTube and on different um platforms, we're criticizing

1851
02:01:42,360 --> 02:01:44,440
Speaker 1: the film, and the biggest thing that kept going if

1852
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 1: they didn't just outright dismiss it as dancers with wolves

1853
02:01:47,320 --> 02:01:50,880
Speaker 1: in space or Poconisan space, they would say things like

1854
02:01:51,480 --> 02:01:55,560
Speaker 1: white guilt, and you know, like, oh, well, what am

1855
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,760
Speaker 1: I supposed to do? You know, And it's like Hollywood's

1856
02:01:58,760 --> 02:02:01,600
Speaker 1: making these movies where I'm supposed to feel bad for

1857
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:03,960
Speaker 1: being a white guy, and all of these white guys

1858
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:05,960
Speaker 1: in this movie are the bad guys. And I'm like,

1859
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:10,440
Speaker 1: if that's your takeaway from it and not the anti

1860
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 1: indigenous like racism in the film, even if it is,

1861
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, not nearly as bad as it has been

1862
02:02:17,560 --> 02:02:21,040
Speaker 1: in the past, but it's still problematic, Like you have

1863
02:02:21,160 --> 02:02:24,600
Speaker 1: a bigger problem with not being the good guy this time,

1864
02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:29,120
Speaker 1: when you know, there's so many other problems with the

1865
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:32,000
Speaker 1: film that you could be talking about that, you know,

1866
02:02:32,080 --> 02:02:36,160
Speaker 1: Indigenous people have even talked about, like I like the movie,

1867
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:41,480
Speaker 1: but lots of Indigenous people don't, for like many valid reasons.

1868
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:44,200
Speaker 1: And it's like none of those reasons that I've heard

1869
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:48,440
Speaker 1: Indigenous people complain about have ever been said by any

1870
02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:51,080
Speaker 1: of like those reviewers from the past at all because

1871
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:53,520
Speaker 1: they just weren't even thinking about it. It's like their

1872
02:02:53,600 --> 02:03:00,960
Speaker 1: ego was just so fragile. There the hell of this

1873
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:05,000
Speaker 1: movie was vaguely critical of me and I hate fire.

1874
02:03:06,160 --> 02:03:08,000
Speaker 1: You're just like still at the end of the day,

1875
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,640
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, this movie was made by a

1876
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 1: fabulously wealthy white guy, like and the other thing. Um,

1877
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:20,400
Speaker 1: because I used to think back then, I used to think, Okay,

1878
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:23,080
Speaker 1: maybe the bad guys are a little too on the nose,

1879
02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:26,600
Speaker 1: maybe they're too cartooning, maybe they're you know, not subtle enough.

1880
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:32,880
Speaker 1: Until Standing Rock happened, and that really I'm like, rewatching

1881
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:37,280
Speaker 1: this in a post Standing Rock era, post Missing and

1882
02:03:37,360 --> 02:03:41,440
Speaker 1: Murdered Indigenous Women era, I'm like, this is exactly how

1883
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:44,920
Speaker 1: these people think, you know, Like this is how they talk.

1884
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:48,440
Speaker 1: So let's see. There's a couple quotes from the movie

1885
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:51,720
Speaker 1: that really stood out to me. Um. The first one's

1886
02:03:51,800 --> 02:03:56,040
Speaker 1: Joe Bonny Rubus's character when he's talking to Jake about

1887
02:03:56,040 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 1: relocating them, and he says, look, kill the Indigenous looks bad.

1888
02:04:01,720 --> 02:04:04,920
Speaker 1: But there's one thing that shareholders hate more than bad press,

1889
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:09,560
Speaker 1: and that's a bad quarterly statement. Yes, that is like yes,

1890
02:04:10,040 --> 02:04:13,320
Speaker 1: that's not a cartoon villain. That's how it works. That's Enbridge,

1891
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:17,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That is Oca, you know,

1892
02:04:17,240 --> 02:04:19,760
Speaker 1: the Oca crisis for people who don't live in the

1893
02:04:19,840 --> 02:04:26,520
Speaker 1: United States, is every mining facility in sami Land, you know,

1894
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:30,520
Speaker 1: in Lapland. And that's how they think. That's that's how

1895
02:04:30,560 --> 02:04:34,600
Speaker 1: it is. There's a quote from I think it's in

1896
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:39,760
Speaker 1: Jake's voiceover, so it shouldn't be him who says this.

1897
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:42,800
Speaker 1: It should probably be material who says this. But the

1898
02:04:42,880 --> 02:04:45,440
Speaker 1: quote is something like, you know, make them the enemy

1899
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:48,480
Speaker 1: and you can justify killing them, which is what has

1900
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 1: happened all throughout history when genocides have happened. Is like again,

1901
02:04:52,840 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: rhetoric and mental gymnastics are used to justify by killing

1902
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:03,880
Speaker 1: entire populations of people. And you see that happening in

1903
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,680
Speaker 1: the movie where like the Omanakaya people are referred to

1904
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: are like references being roaches and you know Blue Monthly

1905
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:18,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, anti indigenous slurs are used several times. Their

1906
02:05:18,760 --> 02:05:22,200
Speaker 1: intelligence is insulted, like it's just all these things to

1907
02:05:22,280 --> 02:05:27,440
Speaker 1: dehumanize them and make them the enemy to justify killing them.

1908
02:05:27,480 --> 02:05:30,320
Speaker 1: And I found the line while a line from the movie.

1909
02:05:30,400 --> 02:05:34,440
Speaker 1: It says, it's grace telling him these are people in

1910
02:05:34,840 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 1: Giovanni Ribisi's character says, no, they're fly, fly bitten savages

1911
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:40,760
Speaker 1: that live in a tree. All right, look around. I

1912
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:42,680
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I see a lot of trees.

1913
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:46,280
Speaker 1: They can move. So I said, you know, this is

1914
02:05:46,360 --> 02:05:51,680
Speaker 1: genocide and action. You know, granted they're not human, but

1915
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:54,480
Speaker 1: you strip them of their humanity and it becomes easier

1916
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:59,000
Speaker 1: to kill them. And then in colonial terms, like this

1917
02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:02,200
Speaker 1: is something I don't a lot of people understand when

1918
02:06:02,240 --> 02:06:06,520
Speaker 1: you talk about colonialism, and you know, white imperialists coming

1919
02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:11,680
Speaker 1: to America, for example, in America is huge, Like the

1920
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:17,120
Speaker 1: continent of North America is gigantic, the United States is massive.

1921
02:06:17,480 --> 02:06:21,080
Speaker 1: That is a lot of land that was stolen, you know.

1922
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:24,960
Speaker 1: So anyways, it says, you know, like let's not even

1923
02:06:25,080 --> 02:06:27,320
Speaker 1: break it down. Let's break it down to like it's

1924
02:06:27,320 --> 02:06:29,880
Speaker 1: not even an entire continent. Let's say it's your house

1925
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:34,960
Speaker 1: and someone comes to your house and they're like, oh, well,

1926
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:37,920
Speaker 1: why don't we just share your house? You know, like

1927
02:06:37,960 --> 02:06:40,320
Speaker 1: we want to live here, We're here, I brought my

1928
02:06:40,360 --> 02:06:42,680
Speaker 1: whole family. Let's just live in your house. I mean,

1929
02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:44,240
Speaker 1: what do you tell them do you say, oh, yeah,

1930
02:06:44,320 --> 02:06:46,280
Speaker 1: here's the room set up for you, or do you

1931
02:06:46,280 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: tell them get the funk out of my house. Yeah,

1932
02:06:51,120 --> 02:06:53,959
Speaker 1: it's like, no, we're not sharing our home with you.

1933
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 1: You have to fucking get out of my house. Even

1934
02:06:57,920 --> 02:07:00,880
Speaker 1: in the event where okay, okay, we'll leave Home Tree

1935
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:03,080
Speaker 1: and we'll go someplace else, they're not going to stop

1936
02:07:03,080 --> 02:07:06,800
Speaker 1: at Home Tree. They're going to obliterate them, absolutely, because

1937
02:07:06,840 --> 02:07:10,960
Speaker 1: they immediately switched and threatened to kill, like we're threatened

1938
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:14,800
Speaker 1: to the next Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like that's

1939
02:07:14,840 --> 02:07:18,120
Speaker 1: the other thing I mean, like, again, Turtle Island is massive,

1940
02:07:18,160 --> 02:07:21,080
Speaker 1: The United States is massive. That is a lot of trees.

1941
02:07:21,320 --> 02:07:25,000
Speaker 1: They had a lot of natives moved to and look

1942
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:30,720
Speaker 1: what happened, you know, and it's it's so heavy. It

1943
02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:35,280
Speaker 1: was almost good, except it's sucking Jake, right, take Jake

1944
02:07:35,280 --> 02:07:39,520
Speaker 1: out of the story. I think that there was also

1945
02:07:39,560 --> 02:07:42,920
Speaker 1: a time where I felt like the storytelling was too unsettled,

1946
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 1: which is like also kind of ridiculous when you show

1947
02:07:45,160 --> 02:07:47,080
Speaker 1: up a James Cameron movie you're like, well, well, I

1948
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know what I expected, but but I think that, yeah,

1949
02:07:50,440 --> 02:07:54,480
Speaker 1: like that those elements have aged very very well, and

1950
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:57,840
Speaker 1: in the movie's favor. And it's also like the politics.

1951
02:07:58,040 --> 02:08:01,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I was not on every front, but in

1952
02:08:01,320 --> 02:08:05,520
Speaker 1: terms of anti military industrial complex, and I had to

1953
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:08,440
Speaker 1: go back and like look up, like there were specific

1954
02:08:08,840 --> 02:08:11,320
Speaker 1: terms and events connected to the Iraq War that James

1955
02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:15,600
Speaker 1: Cameron was referencing through this that I just did not remember.

1956
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:24,560
Speaker 1: Um is unobtainium oil, not your fucking mind. But uh

1957
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 1: but I thought that, Like, I mean, the politics of

1958
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:30,480
Speaker 1: this movie and what it is against is pretty clear,

1959
02:08:30,720 --> 02:08:34,360
Speaker 1: and like the I think the metaphor and the characters

1960
02:08:34,400 --> 02:08:37,600
Speaker 1: that they used to make those politics clear is very

1961
02:08:37,800 --> 02:08:42,280
Speaker 1: very muddled, and bajillion mistakes are made, some of which

1962
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:44,120
Speaker 1: we've discussed, some of which we still have to discuss.

1963
02:08:44,720 --> 02:08:47,200
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's like the politics of this movie.

1964
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:50,880
Speaker 1: It's it's a you know, massively successful anti war, anti

1965
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:57,560
Speaker 1: imperialist movie, anti capitalist corporation. Yeah, And ironically the movie

1966
02:08:57,560 --> 02:09:02,520
Speaker 1: made three billion dollars three bill on Tall Wars And

1967
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:04,600
Speaker 1: that's why people remember it. It's because it was so

1968
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:08,280
Speaker 1: good at capitalism, not because it was like the best

1969
02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:11,040
Speaker 1: movie ever. You know. The sad thing is that it

1970
02:09:11,120 --> 02:09:13,560
Speaker 1: could have been. It just needed like it have been

1971
02:09:13,960 --> 02:09:17,920
Speaker 1: so much better, could have been because even James Cameron,

1972
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:20,240
Speaker 1: like in the YouTube video I was talking about like

1973
02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:24,640
Speaker 1: his most iconic films or whatever, he said, He's all like,

1974
02:09:24,720 --> 02:09:27,560
Speaker 1: after I did Avatar, I was hoping to like do

1975
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:33,000
Speaker 1: some more environmentalist activism and like Brazil and all these

1976
02:09:33,040 --> 02:09:35,920
Speaker 1: other places. He's like, but I decided to make the

1977
02:09:36,000 --> 02:09:41,520
Speaker 1: Avatar sequels instead, And I'm like, well, instead of ocean conservation,

1978
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,000
Speaker 1: and I'm like, dude, you could have been doing actual

1979
02:09:45,080 --> 02:09:47,960
Speaker 1: good stuff. But he did say, he's like, you know,

1980
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:51,840
Speaker 1: film is powerful and you can reach a lot of people.

1981
02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:58,200
Speaker 1: For sure, I completely agree, But also film productions, especially

1982
02:09:58,280 --> 02:10:03,480
Speaker 1: huge budget ones like this, in the environmental impact they have, well,

1983
02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:06,120
Speaker 1: I would be curious to know if James Cameron has

1984
02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:09,840
Speaker 1: made any strides in that direction. I'm always interested in

1985
02:10:10,640 --> 02:10:13,040
Speaker 1: that kind of side of filmmaking because there's there are

1986
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:15,720
Speaker 1: like far less harmful ways to do it. And I

1987
02:10:15,720 --> 02:10:18,280
Speaker 1: wonder if, like, you know, given the politics of his

1988
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:20,880
Speaker 1: movies and seems like his personal politics, whether that's something

1989
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:25,400
Speaker 1: that has been addressed even remotely. I hope so, but

1990
02:10:25,480 --> 02:10:28,640
Speaker 1: it's like you just never know with a production like that. Right,

1991
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:33,480
Speaker 1: The biggest concern I have with the sequel is that

1992
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:37,760
Speaker 1: how many of the characters in the film in the

1993
02:10:37,840 --> 02:10:41,800
Speaker 1: sequel are actors of color, and how of them, how

1994
02:10:41,840 --> 02:10:46,120
Speaker 1: many are Indigenous? And that's like my biggest concern. It's like,

1995
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:49,800
Speaker 1: if it's more white people and blue faces pretending to

1996
02:10:49,800 --> 02:10:52,360
Speaker 1: be Indians. I'm like, have we learned anything? It's been

1997
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 1: fourteen years or something like, it's been eighty four years

1998
02:10:57,120 --> 02:10:59,400
Speaker 1: and eighty four it's felt like eighty four years since

1999
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:02,840
Speaker 1: two thousand nine. To be honest, Um, Um, can we

2000
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 1: talk about the able is um a bit more? Um?

2001
02:11:06,760 --> 02:11:08,680
Speaker 1: We touched on a lot of the things already, but

2002
02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:10,080
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure it has It's like,

2003
02:11:11,120 --> 02:11:14,120
Speaker 1: we give it some more time. So Jake Sulley uses

2004
02:11:14,160 --> 02:11:17,080
Speaker 1: a wheelchair. He seems to be paralyzed from the waist

2005
02:11:17,120 --> 02:11:21,040
Speaker 1: down from an injury he sustained in battle as a marine.

2006
02:11:21,840 --> 02:11:25,080
Speaker 1: As we mentioned, that character is not played by a

2007
02:11:25,120 --> 02:11:28,400
Speaker 1: disabled actor, which is a problem we come upon time

2008
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:33,320
Speaker 1: and time again in movies. Um, Sam Worthington is able bodied.

2009
02:11:34,000 --> 02:11:37,600
Speaker 1: I read a lot of responses from disabled people about

2010
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:41,480
Speaker 1: the representation we get on screen in this movie, and

2011
02:11:42,040 --> 02:11:46,720
Speaker 1: like we mentioned already, it seems to be pretty mixed

2012
02:11:46,800 --> 02:11:50,760
Speaker 1: across the board, where some people saw themselves in Jake Sully.

2013
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:54,680
Speaker 1: They they felt represented by his character and you know,

2014
02:11:54,760 --> 02:11:59,920
Speaker 1: him being a disabled character. Others criticized him as one

2015
02:12:00,040 --> 02:12:04,160
Speaker 1: of many movie characters who is trying to quote unquote

2016
02:12:04,160 --> 02:12:08,520
Speaker 1: fix his disability, right right, He's like being incentivized by

2017
02:12:08,560 --> 02:12:11,000
Speaker 1: the kernel of like I will like it's implied like

2018
02:12:11,040 --> 02:12:14,600
Speaker 1: I will make you whole again. And that's something that

2019
02:12:14,840 --> 02:12:20,200
Speaker 1: is said to be appealing to Jake Sully at first.

2020
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:23,960
Speaker 1: That and there are interpretations and I can see how

2021
02:12:24,040 --> 02:12:26,720
Speaker 1: you might interpret it this way where one of the

2022
02:12:26,760 --> 02:12:29,760
Speaker 1: main reasons he chooses to stay in his avatar body

2023
02:12:29,920 --> 02:12:33,240
Speaker 1: is that his avatar body is able bodied. And of

2024
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:37,680
Speaker 1: course this, you know, perpetuates this idea that disabled people

2025
02:12:37,920 --> 02:12:40,720
Speaker 1: are you know, quote unquote incomplete, or that they have

2026
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:44,320
Speaker 1: something wrong with them. Disabled characters and movies trying to

2027
02:12:44,480 --> 02:12:47,880
Speaker 1: again quote unquote fix their disability is is something that

2028
02:12:47,920 --> 02:12:50,480
Speaker 1: you see a lot, I think, especially in movie villains.

2029
02:12:51,120 --> 02:12:54,160
Speaker 1: Um A friend of the show, Kristin Lopez, wrote about

2030
02:12:54,200 --> 02:12:58,600
Speaker 1: this in The Hollywood Reporter when Tour Story four came out.

2031
02:12:58,640 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 1: So it talks a lot about story for but it

2032
02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:04,480
Speaker 1: references a lot of other movie characters where this is

2033
02:13:05,040 --> 02:13:09,240
Speaker 1: the case so there's you know, that criticism. But then

2034
02:13:09,320 --> 02:13:12,000
Speaker 1: other people were like, well, but no, that's not why

2035
02:13:12,160 --> 02:13:15,640
Speaker 1: he chooses to stay in his avatar body. There are

2036
02:13:15,680 --> 02:13:18,400
Speaker 1: other reasons. So there's just like seems like it's like

2037
02:13:18,720 --> 02:13:21,960
Speaker 1: an original like that that first sequence where when he's

2038
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:25,200
Speaker 1: in the avatar body does seem like that is a

2039
02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:27,800
Speaker 1: big but it doesn't seem like that remains the incentive.

2040
02:13:27,880 --> 02:13:30,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, or or like not that it's even

2041
02:13:30,440 --> 02:13:32,880
Speaker 1: an incentive, right, because then he falls in love with

2042
02:13:32,920 --> 02:13:34,840
Speaker 1: a woman, and then he falls in love with the

2043
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:39,760
Speaker 1: culture and he becomes an indigenous person. You know how

2044
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 1: when you can be a white person and then you

2045
02:13:42,120 --> 02:13:45,280
Speaker 1: become an indigenous person, you know when that always happened.

2046
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:48,400
Speaker 1: So the point is there's a lot of nuances to

2047
02:13:48,440 --> 02:13:52,200
Speaker 1: this discussion, and I'd be as always, we're just curious

2048
02:13:52,280 --> 02:13:55,720
Speaker 1: to hear from our listeners who can speak from from

2049
02:13:55,760 --> 02:13:58,320
Speaker 1: a place of experience. Yeah, I mean, because it's I

2050
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:03,960
Speaker 1: also read kind of a diversity of opinion there where. Um,

2051
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, we have we have a protagonist who he sucks,

2052
02:14:07,560 --> 02:14:12,000
Speaker 1: but he is our our main our protagonists is a

2053
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:14,280
Speaker 1: is a disabled person and you don't see that in

2054
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:19,600
Speaker 1: movies really ever very infrequently. Yeah, But on top of that,

2055
02:14:19,640 --> 02:14:24,680
Speaker 1: you have many of the common trophy issues with disabled characters,

2056
02:14:24,760 --> 02:14:28,120
Speaker 1: beginning with the fact that Sam Worthington is not a

2057
02:14:28,160 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 1: disabled actor, and it kind of goes on from there.

2058
02:14:30,400 --> 02:14:34,560
Speaker 1: I would be really curious to hear listener perspective on

2059
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:36,920
Speaker 1: on that because I think the movie, like the movie

2060
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:42,080
Speaker 1: doesn't really touch on it that much after the first act,

2061
02:14:42,400 --> 02:14:44,520
Speaker 1: and which I think is where the you know could

2062
02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:46,960
Speaker 1: could be seen us for the best, where James Cameron

2063
02:14:46,960 --> 02:14:49,520
Speaker 1: doesn't appear to have very much insight into that topic.

2064
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:54,280
Speaker 1: But again, like who's telling the story, who is advising,

2065
02:14:54,520 --> 02:14:57,880
Speaker 1: and um, how does that bear out? And character for

2066
02:14:58,360 --> 02:15:04,280
Speaker 1: exactly exactly Jake, not like the other colonizers Sully. It

2067
02:15:04,320 --> 02:15:06,440
Speaker 1: seems like that choice was made in the story because

2068
02:15:06,440 --> 02:15:08,360
Speaker 1: when you're writing a screenplay. I don't know if you

2069
02:15:08,360 --> 02:15:10,440
Speaker 1: know this, but I do have the master's degree in

2070
02:15:10,480 --> 02:15:13,080
Speaker 1: screenwriting from Boston University. I would never bring it up

2071
02:15:13,120 --> 02:15:18,040
Speaker 1: on my own, but you make choices about your characters,

2072
02:15:18,120 --> 02:15:23,080
Speaker 1: especially a protagonist, to motivate and justify other things that

2073
02:15:23,120 --> 02:15:25,680
Speaker 1: will happen in the movie. So it feels to me

2074
02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:29,600
Speaker 1: like we need to get him from the start of

2075
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:32,480
Speaker 1: the movie where he's a human white guy, to the

2076
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:36,000
Speaker 1: end of the movie, he's gonna be uh member of

2077
02:15:36,160 --> 02:15:40,760
Speaker 1: the Alma Takaya people. What qualities or what things can

2078
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:44,280
Speaker 1: we attribute to this character to justify that making sense

2079
02:15:44,320 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 1: by the end of the movie for him to want

2080
02:15:46,160 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 1: to permanently be an Alma Takaya person. And I feel

2081
02:15:51,360 --> 02:15:53,960
Speaker 1: like the only reason that he is a disabled character

2082
02:15:54,040 --> 02:15:55,880
Speaker 1: in the movie is to be like, well, that, well,

2083
02:15:55,920 --> 02:15:58,360
Speaker 1: that'll be one of the things that justifies him making

2084
02:15:58,400 --> 02:16:02,200
Speaker 1: this choice. I was about to say that because, um,

2085
02:16:02,280 --> 02:16:05,680
Speaker 1: one of the things now speaking also as an able

2086
02:16:05,720 --> 02:16:10,120
Speaker 1: bodied person, was that watching the film for the first time,

2087
02:16:10,160 --> 02:16:13,040
Speaker 1: I think another reason why I like Stephen Lane's character,

2088
02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:16,080
Speaker 1: even though he's the bad guy, was you know, he

2089
02:16:16,120 --> 02:16:19,080
Speaker 1: tells them, I look out for my own If you

2090
02:16:19,200 --> 02:16:21,600
Speaker 1: do this, I promise you you'll get your legs back,

2091
02:16:22,040 --> 02:16:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, And and he says, quote unquote your real legs,

2092
02:16:25,640 --> 02:16:28,000
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, for me, you know who's

2093
02:16:28,040 --> 02:16:32,959
Speaker 1: not disabled or doesn't have a disability, I'm like, fuck, yeah,

2094
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:36,920
Speaker 1: you know these things are aliens and your planets dying,

2095
02:16:37,160 --> 02:16:40,039
Speaker 1: So get your legs and do it and save the

2096
02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:43,000
Speaker 1: planet and go home. Hell. Yes, you know, and I

2097
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:45,879
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people probably felt the same

2098
02:16:45,879 --> 02:16:48,720
Speaker 1: way until you meet the nav and you realize that

2099
02:16:48,760 --> 02:16:52,640
Speaker 1: this is bullshit and he's colonizer and stuff. So at first,

2100
02:16:52,760 --> 02:16:57,080
Speaker 1: on paper, it makes sense. However, if that was the case,

2101
02:16:57,240 --> 02:17:00,640
Speaker 1: if it was do this for me, get your legs back,

2102
02:17:01,400 --> 02:17:04,480
Speaker 1: the downside should have been if you don't do this,

2103
02:17:05,200 --> 02:17:09,680
Speaker 1: you remain disabled. But there's no like lose lose He's like, okay,

2104
02:17:09,800 --> 02:17:14,880
Speaker 1: so I still have my body at the end, you know, so, well,

2105
02:17:14,920 --> 02:17:18,240
Speaker 1: that's that's that's implying that, like your punishment is that

2106
02:17:18,320 --> 02:17:23,320
Speaker 1: you stay disabled, as if being disabled is a punishment.

2107
02:17:23,360 --> 02:17:26,920
Speaker 1: So there's all these like yucky implications. And also it's

2108
02:17:26,959 --> 02:17:30,280
Speaker 1: like we've received no indication that like Jake Sulley is

2109
02:17:30,760 --> 02:17:34,760
Speaker 1: unhappy as like as a disabled man, Like that's not

2110
02:17:34,879 --> 02:17:38,880
Speaker 1: something that we ever hear him speak on in any like,

2111
02:17:38,959 --> 02:17:41,120
Speaker 1: it's just people are making that assumption about him, which

2112
02:17:41,160 --> 02:17:43,160
Speaker 1: is a very common, ablest thing to do. But it's

2113
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:46,440
Speaker 1: like the story doesn't challenge it really, like they're like, well,

2114
02:17:46,480 --> 02:17:49,120
Speaker 1: of course this is true. Right at the beginning of

2115
02:17:49,160 --> 02:17:51,840
Speaker 1: the movie, he does make a comment where he's like, uh,

2116
02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:54,720
Speaker 1: they can fix it if you have the money because

2117
02:17:54,760 --> 02:17:58,280
Speaker 1: American healthcare in the future is still dogshit. So he

2118
02:17:59,000 --> 02:18:02,480
Speaker 1: is disabled because he broke But still it's like that

2119
02:18:02,560 --> 02:18:05,120
Speaker 1: should have been a bigger driving point if that was

2120
02:18:05,160 --> 02:18:08,440
Speaker 1: going to be the thing that motivates them to do

2121
02:18:08,480 --> 02:18:11,120
Speaker 1: the thing, right, I mean, yeah, it's like, Okay, I

2122
02:18:11,120 --> 02:18:14,400
Speaker 1: guess there's commentary on like the horrible state of of

2123
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:19,120
Speaker 1: like American healthcare slash like veteran benefits, which is like

2124
02:18:19,760 --> 02:18:24,119
Speaker 1: still abysmal, But yeah, the the way that was handled.

2125
02:18:24,600 --> 02:18:27,280
Speaker 1: And then again, and I'm speculating here, but I think

2126
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:29,440
Speaker 1: the choice was made to make him disabled to like

2127
02:18:29,560 --> 02:18:34,359
Speaker 1: narratively justify like him wanting to remain in this avatar

2128
02:18:34,400 --> 02:18:37,560
Speaker 1: body by the end of the movie. That's just like

2129
02:18:37,600 --> 02:18:41,120
Speaker 1: not the representation people. And I you know, I'm also

2130
02:18:41,160 --> 02:18:44,080
Speaker 1: speaking as an able bodied person here, but it's my

2131
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:47,760
Speaker 1: understanding that people with disabilities want to see themselves represented

2132
02:18:47,800 --> 02:18:50,480
Speaker 1: on screen, I mean obviously far more than they already are,

2133
02:18:50,840 --> 02:18:54,200
Speaker 1: and in a way that just normalizes their experience rather

2134
02:18:54,320 --> 02:18:58,720
Speaker 1: than being some like justification for something else, some other

2135
02:18:58,879 --> 02:19:02,080
Speaker 1: narrative choice that's going to happen, And that's not what's

2136
02:19:02,080 --> 02:19:05,280
Speaker 1: happening in this movie. No, it's been like weaponized as

2137
02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:07,760
Speaker 1: a plot point, like it's just and like a lazy

2138
02:19:07,800 --> 02:19:12,680
Speaker 1: plot point at that, which is just like, I guess

2139
02:19:12,720 --> 02:19:16,440
Speaker 1: I can't say that the movie is necessarily above that behavior.

2140
02:19:16,879 --> 02:19:21,240
Speaker 1: Obviously we've been talking for two hours, but like, but yeah,

2141
02:19:20,879 --> 02:19:24,760
Speaker 1: it is. I would be curious to know, because I also, like,

2142
02:19:24,879 --> 02:19:28,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to ignore disabled writers who

2143
02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:31,920
Speaker 1: who did enjoy how Jake Sally was characterized. Of course,

2144
02:19:32,600 --> 02:19:35,160
Speaker 1: I have one last, just quick thing that I want

2145
02:19:35,160 --> 02:19:38,240
Speaker 1: to touch on really quickly, harkening back to the romance

2146
02:19:38,360 --> 02:19:43,360
Speaker 1: between Jake and the tri um. Yeah, I want to

2147
02:19:43,360 --> 02:19:47,520
Speaker 1: talk about anterior in general, because praising her like and

2148
02:19:47,640 --> 02:19:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, in different places. But yeah, yeah, and so

2149
02:19:51,280 --> 02:19:53,199
Speaker 1: the thing I liked about the romance and it's really

2150
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:55,720
Speaker 1: just that like he's like, I have chosen a woman,

2151
02:19:55,800 --> 02:19:58,119
Speaker 1: but she needs to choose me, and she's like, yeah

2152
02:19:58,160 --> 02:20:01,400
Speaker 1: I did already you goo. Um. So I liked that,

2153
02:20:01,480 --> 02:20:05,200
Speaker 1: Like she's given and like that just shows how how

2154
02:20:05,240 --> 02:20:09,440
Speaker 1: low the bar is for a female character being given

2155
02:20:09,480 --> 02:20:12,800
Speaker 1: agency in her own romantic life is something that I'm like,

2156
02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:16,080
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, that happened. I feel like we've really

2157
02:20:16,080 --> 02:20:18,440
Speaker 1: been handing it to James Cameron for doing that in

2158
02:20:18,480 --> 02:20:20,720
Speaker 1: a way that's like, yeah, that should just be kind

2159
02:20:20,360 --> 02:20:23,800
Speaker 1: of should just a standard. But you know in Titanic

2160
02:20:23,840 --> 02:20:26,640
Speaker 1: at a period piece, you're like, oh wow, women, I

2161
02:20:26,680 --> 02:20:32,119
Speaker 1: know choices back then. How subversive. Then it's like, why

2162
02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:36,959
Speaker 1: are the Navy monogamous? Okay? I I had the same thought,

2163
02:20:36,959 --> 02:20:38,760
Speaker 1: because she's like, and now we had sex one time

2164
02:20:38,760 --> 02:20:41,160
Speaker 1: and now we're made it for life. And and again

2165
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:43,320
Speaker 1: I I don't I'm not an expert on this, but

2166
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:48,480
Speaker 1: it's my understanding that like hetero monogamy is a very

2167
02:20:48,720 --> 02:20:54,039
Speaker 1: European Christian thing. And I'm not knocking monogamy or anything,

2168
02:20:54,480 --> 02:20:59,520
Speaker 1: but things like heteronormativity and the quote unquote gender binary

2169
02:21:00,120 --> 02:21:05,320
Speaker 1: and long term monogamous pair bonding, these are all constructs that,

2170
02:21:05,560 --> 02:21:09,000
Speaker 1: again from my understanding, a lot of communities around the world,

2171
02:21:09,080 --> 02:21:14,320
Speaker 1: including many indigenous ones, don't participate in because it's never

2172
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:17,840
Speaker 1: been a part of their culture or cultural evolution. I

2173
02:21:17,879 --> 02:21:22,560
Speaker 1: am literally reading this book called Reclaiming to Spirits, and

2174
02:21:23,040 --> 02:21:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm like just a couple of chapters in, but they're

2175
02:21:25,160 --> 02:21:29,279
Speaker 1: already talking about like how all over the United States

2176
02:21:29,920 --> 02:21:32,600
Speaker 1: in general, like there are so much there's so much

2177
02:21:32,600 --> 02:21:40,199
Speaker 1: evidence of lgbt Q relationships and polygamous relationships, not even

2178
02:21:40,280 --> 02:21:43,800
Speaker 1: just like one man with multiple wives, which does happen,

2179
02:21:43,879 --> 02:21:49,200
Speaker 1: but like a man with multiple husbands. And so to

2180
02:21:49,360 --> 02:21:51,920
Speaker 1: see it like done like this in a movie that

2181
02:21:52,040 --> 02:21:56,359
Speaker 1: is about connection and about like you know, this network

2182
02:21:56,400 --> 02:21:58,080
Speaker 1: of people and stuff like that. Why would she just

2183
02:21:58,120 --> 02:22:01,920
Speaker 1: be limited to one person she would be in love with? Yeah?

2184
02:22:02,080 --> 02:22:06,640
Speaker 1: Why would this? Why would they? When that's such a

2185
02:22:06,720 --> 02:22:12,280
Speaker 1: construct of like like such a euro Christian centric construct.

2186
02:22:12,680 --> 02:22:17,000
Speaker 1: It's because he's a white guy, because James Cameron. Right,

2187
02:22:17,040 --> 02:22:19,800
Speaker 1: it's like it does feel like a James Cameron thing

2188
02:22:19,840 --> 02:22:23,200
Speaker 1: where it's like he is I don't even know, like

2189
02:22:23,240 --> 02:22:25,960
Speaker 1: I was like who even knows how conscious, like how

2190
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:28,240
Speaker 1: hard he even thought about this, because it's just like

2191
02:22:28,280 --> 02:22:32,280
Speaker 1: that's what happens when you have like he's giving like

2192
02:22:32,360 --> 02:22:35,400
Speaker 1: he's giving the navi elements of the oppressor in a

2193
02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:40,600
Speaker 1: way that is like what what who and for what

2194
02:22:40,160 --> 02:22:43,880
Speaker 1: and what and then gives us the little peanut of like, well,

2195
02:22:43,920 --> 02:22:47,360
Speaker 1: but Nateria got to choose her partner that you have

2196
02:22:47,440 --> 02:22:51,040
Speaker 1: to marry after having sex with one time, and we're like, yes, girlfa,

2197
02:22:51,600 --> 02:22:53,960
Speaker 1: it's amazing. So I take it all back. I'm not

2198
02:22:54,080 --> 02:22:59,360
Speaker 1: rooting for their relationship. She just should have snagged the

2199
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:02,080
Speaker 1: white guy and that that should have been Jake, Like,

2200
02:23:02,120 --> 02:23:05,920
Speaker 1: wait what, because oh, I just sucked a cat with

2201
02:23:05,959 --> 02:23:09,600
Speaker 1: my brain tentacle thing. The one moment with Jake and

2202
02:23:09,640 --> 02:23:13,920
Speaker 1: Ateri that I did like was when she finds him

2203
02:23:13,959 --> 02:23:17,480
Speaker 1: in human form and she's holding him and then they say,

2204
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:21,320
Speaker 1: I see you and you're like everywhere she he sucks

2205
02:23:21,320 --> 02:23:24,360
Speaker 1: in all forms, but she accepts him in all forms. Wow,

2206
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:31,840
Speaker 1: it's so nice, goddamn it. But no, Niteri in general,

2207
02:23:32,200 --> 02:23:35,800
Speaker 1: I love her. I think that they could have done

2208
02:23:36,040 --> 02:23:39,920
Speaker 1: more to characterize her. We don't know very much. She

2209
02:23:39,959 --> 02:23:43,600
Speaker 1: gets reduced to the relationship at certain moments, not all

2210
02:23:43,600 --> 02:23:45,680
Speaker 1: the time, because, like you were saying earlier, Ali like

2211
02:23:46,160 --> 02:23:51,960
Speaker 1: she is, like I think, realistically and like tactically and emotionally,

2212
02:23:52,520 --> 02:23:55,800
Speaker 1: most connected to her family and to Pandora. And when

2213
02:23:55,920 --> 02:23:58,880
Speaker 1: Jake Fox with her family, Fox with Pandora, he's cut

2214
02:23:58,879 --> 02:24:01,640
Speaker 1: out of her life. That totally makes sense. But there

2215
02:24:01,680 --> 02:24:05,600
Speaker 1: are sequences of the movie where they're on good turn

2216
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:08,240
Speaker 1: like when things are going well. All we know about

2217
02:24:08,360 --> 02:24:11,920
Speaker 1: Nitti is in relation to Jake. When things aren't going well,

2218
02:24:11,959 --> 02:24:14,880
Speaker 1: She gets these character moments, but they're also in reaction

2219
02:24:14,920 --> 02:24:18,160
Speaker 1: to Jake more often than not because there's not Is

2220
02:24:18,200 --> 02:24:21,000
Speaker 1: there a scene in this movie where two Navy characters

2221
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:23,480
Speaker 1: talk to each other and Jake or Grace are not there,

2222
02:24:23,520 --> 02:24:31,840
Speaker 1: Like no n test. It's when Naterie and her dad

2223
02:24:32,040 --> 02:24:34,640
Speaker 1: are talking to each other when he's dying. He tells

2224
02:24:34,680 --> 02:24:38,280
Speaker 1: her to protect but then Jake shows up, but then

2225
02:24:38,320 --> 02:24:42,520
Speaker 1: he's still bull dozes into the scene. Okay, let me

2226
02:24:42,600 --> 02:24:44,640
Speaker 1: touch your shoulder to comfort you, and she's like, get

2227
02:24:44,640 --> 02:24:47,600
Speaker 1: the funk away from me. You ask whole She loves

2228
02:24:47,640 --> 02:24:52,160
Speaker 1: to insert himself. You're like, dude, I do appreciate the

2229
02:24:52,360 --> 02:24:58,560
Speaker 1: um Naterius never framed as a damsel. She saves Jake

2230
02:24:58,640 --> 02:25:01,560
Speaker 1: several times, she saves her elf several times. She's a

2231
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:10,039
Speaker 1: competent warrior guy. She kills the colonel that she should

2232
02:25:10,080 --> 02:25:14,440
Speaker 1: have been the hero, and she should have been and

2233
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:18,480
Speaker 1: she should have been that if anything was going to

2234
02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:21,880
Speaker 1: like be the big motivator to unite the clans, it

2235
02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:23,920
Speaker 1: should have been like we lost home tree, this is

2236
02:25:23,959 --> 02:25:27,520
Speaker 1: what's at stake. I'm getting a fucking dragon and and

2237
02:25:27,560 --> 02:25:29,840
Speaker 1: I think that would have been more like that would

2238
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:32,640
Speaker 1: have put her people in a better, like more comfortable

2239
02:25:32,640 --> 02:25:35,440
Speaker 1: place to have, Like yeah, that, why would it? Why

2240
02:25:35,480 --> 02:25:37,840
Speaker 1: would it be Jake? This movie should have been more

2241
02:25:37,920 --> 02:25:42,480
Speaker 1: like the movie Prey, where it's told from her point

2242
02:25:42,480 --> 02:25:47,600
Speaker 1: of view, where she is like the Ultimate Warrior, where

2243
02:25:47,640 --> 02:25:51,600
Speaker 1: she fights the aliens who came from the sky and

2244
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:54,360
Speaker 1: kills their ass. I guess it's just one of them

2245
02:25:54,360 --> 02:26:00,360
Speaker 1: in Prey, but still still, yeah, that would have been great.

2246
02:26:00,520 --> 02:26:03,240
Speaker 1: That would have been better Jake. If Jake was going

2247
02:26:03,320 --> 02:26:07,480
Speaker 1: to do anything, he should have like sabotaged the base

2248
02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:11,320
Speaker 1: from the inside, yeah, while Matery was getting shipped done,

2249
02:26:11,320 --> 02:26:14,840
Speaker 1: because that would have subverted everything. I think like if

2250
02:26:14,879 --> 02:26:16,920
Speaker 1: that would have been like, Okay, our hero fucked up

2251
02:26:16,920 --> 02:26:19,320
Speaker 1: and he ain't ships, so now he's in jail and

2252
02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:22,680
Speaker 1: if he wants to contribute, he can do something with

2253
02:26:22,760 --> 02:26:27,680
Speaker 1: his own people inside of jail in kind of the base,

2254
02:26:27,840 --> 02:26:29,720
Speaker 1: and then he should have gone back to Earth. And

2255
02:26:29,720 --> 02:26:33,080
Speaker 1: it's like sorry for you that the Earth is basically

2256
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:35,760
Speaker 1: like mad Max Fury Road. But whose fault was that?

2257
02:26:36,120 --> 02:26:39,600
Speaker 1: It's not our problem was that? Yeah, it's because humans

2258
02:26:39,640 --> 02:26:44,039
Speaker 1: fucked it up? Um? Is there anything anyone else wants

2259
02:26:44,080 --> 02:26:47,640
Speaker 1: to talk about? I feel like we've only scratched the service,

2260
02:26:47,840 --> 02:26:51,000
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to breeze through really quickly. A

2261
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:55,720
Speaker 1: few other um women in the movie. We've talked about Grace,

2262
02:26:56,280 --> 02:26:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, like she's it's a Sigourney Weaver characters. At

2263
02:26:59,320 --> 02:27:01,240
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm like, nice, but I

2264
02:27:01,280 --> 02:27:05,000
Speaker 1: do think like it's worth kind of repeating that her character.

2265
02:27:05,120 --> 02:27:07,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, on the surface level, it's good that,

2266
02:27:07,840 --> 02:27:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, our highest most respected scientist is a woman

2267
02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:14,240
Speaker 1: who seems to have a lot of control, influence, respect,

2268
02:27:14,360 --> 02:27:18,120
Speaker 1: woman and stuff. On the other hand, she is ethically compromised,

2269
02:27:18,160 --> 02:27:20,360
Speaker 1: and no one ever wants to bring that up and

2270
02:27:20,440 --> 02:27:24,960
Speaker 1: complicit in genie. I do like her relationship with Jake, though,

2271
02:27:24,959 --> 02:27:30,680
Speaker 1: because you rarely see that mentor student relationships between men

2272
02:27:30,720 --> 02:27:34,560
Speaker 1: and women, where the woman is the teacher and the

2273
02:27:34,560 --> 02:27:38,240
Speaker 1: man is like her subordinate and there's like a genuine

2274
02:27:38,240 --> 02:27:41,520
Speaker 1: respect and camaraderie that I wish he would have had

2275
02:27:41,560 --> 02:27:45,280
Speaker 1: that with nay Terry. Also, yes, instead of whatever the

2276
02:27:45,320 --> 02:27:48,000
Speaker 1: fun because snag the white guy and then go get

2277
02:27:48,040 --> 02:27:51,960
Speaker 1: married it or don't get married, just fucking fuck monogamy

2278
02:27:52,000 --> 02:27:58,320
Speaker 1: and marriage. Just have just fuck. But yeah, I I

2279
02:27:58,440 --> 02:28:00,280
Speaker 1: that's a that's a good point. And also the like

2280
02:28:00,320 --> 02:28:03,520
Speaker 1: I feel like when there is a woman in the

2281
02:28:03,600 --> 02:28:07,600
Speaker 1: mentor role, the like Malemntee constantly brings it up of

2282
02:28:07,640 --> 02:28:11,000
Speaker 1: like I can't believe I'm learning from feel like I'm

2283
02:28:11,080 --> 02:28:14,440
Speaker 1: learning from my mom. But it's just like a and

2284
02:28:14,560 --> 02:28:17,240
Speaker 1: inherently respectful and like, I feel like this is these

2285
02:28:17,240 --> 02:28:19,280
Speaker 1: are elements of the James Cameron play a book that

2286
02:28:19,320 --> 02:28:22,080
Speaker 1: he's generally really good with the same goose. It's like,

2287
02:28:22,240 --> 02:28:27,400
Speaker 1: it's a pretty diverse team, the science team, and you

2288
02:28:27,520 --> 02:28:31,600
Speaker 1: also have again, she's like when the Michelle Rodriguez character

2289
02:28:31,640 --> 02:28:35,160
Speaker 1: is so underwritten and so underdeveloped that it's like, we're

2290
02:28:35,160 --> 02:28:37,320
Speaker 1: just gonna have her say fast and the furious lines

2291
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:42,320
Speaker 1: in this movie. Um, but a very highly motivated character

2292
02:28:42,640 --> 02:28:46,600
Speaker 1: who has a whole arc about realizing that the military

2293
02:28:46,680 --> 02:28:51,360
Speaker 1: industrial complex is bad. Actually, but she is like she is,

2294
02:28:51,640 --> 02:28:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, without that character, uh, a lot of you know,

2295
02:28:55,959 --> 02:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Jake's return to Pandora would not have been possible, so

2296
02:28:59,480 --> 02:29:02,119
Speaker 1: the whole third act wouldn't have happened. So yeah, Trudy

2297
02:29:02,200 --> 02:29:04,440
Speaker 1: like is a very important character for someone with very

2298
02:29:04,440 --> 02:29:08,520
Speaker 1: little screen time. I wish that they didn't blow her up. Yeah, yeah,

2299
02:29:08,560 --> 02:29:12,840
Speaker 1: Trudy is what Giovanni Verese's character isn't because Giovanni Versi

2300
02:29:12,920 --> 02:29:15,720
Speaker 1: knows that something's wrong and he continues to do it,

2301
02:29:15,800 --> 02:29:19,080
Speaker 1: and Trudy knows that it's wrong, and she's like, fuck this.

2302
02:29:19,200 --> 02:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I didn't sign up for this, which we kind of did,

2303
02:29:21,640 --> 02:29:24,920
Speaker 1: but he did technically did. But maybe you didn't know

2304
02:29:24,959 --> 02:29:27,000
Speaker 1: exactly what you were signing up for because we can

2305
02:29:27,040 --> 02:29:31,680
Speaker 1: script people very very young and it's sucked up. Uh,

2306
02:29:31,760 --> 02:29:35,480
Speaker 1: but I did. I did generally like that character. Um. Again,

2307
02:29:35,600 --> 02:29:39,200
Speaker 1: very broad James camerony writing, but very easily could have

2308
02:29:39,240 --> 02:29:44,440
Speaker 1: been cast as a man and was not, which I

2309
02:29:44,480 --> 02:29:46,840
Speaker 1: think is again I feel like we're handing it to

2310
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:50,480
Speaker 1: James Cameron for nothing, but most male otour directors don't

2311
02:29:50,520 --> 02:29:52,879
Speaker 1: do that. He did make Titanic, though, so we got

2312
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:56,160
Speaker 1: to really hand it to him for a lot of stuff. Um.

2313
02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:58,800
Speaker 1: Shout out Norm kind of just for no reason. But

2314
02:29:59,120 --> 02:30:02,560
Speaker 1: I'm just like he was in Bones. He's a sweetie.

2315
02:30:02,600 --> 02:30:09,119
Speaker 1: He's a sweetie. Also complicit in genocide. Uh yeah. Norm

2316
02:30:09,200 --> 02:30:12,880
Speaker 1: originally in the deleted scenes, was supposed to be the

2317
02:30:13,080 --> 02:30:16,120
Speaker 1: Jake Sully character as far as like, oh well, we've

2318
02:30:16,160 --> 02:30:18,800
Speaker 1: got a scientist who's not threatening and maybe he's going

2319
02:30:18,840 --> 02:30:20,400
Speaker 1: to be the one to connect with the Navvy, and

2320
02:30:20,440 --> 02:30:22,720
Speaker 1: then Jake just steals his job and that's why he's

2321
02:30:22,760 --> 02:30:29,160
Speaker 1: piste off. And there's another deleted scene where Suite. It's

2322
02:30:29,200 --> 02:30:34,000
Speaker 1: after Jake hunts and is a successful hunter or whatever,

2323
02:30:34,120 --> 02:30:37,720
Speaker 1: and then they party and they're eating and drinking and

2324
02:30:37,760 --> 02:30:40,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and Sute is drinking and he and

2325
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Jake get into like a drinking competition. He says there

2326
02:30:44,120 --> 02:30:46,200
Speaker 1: he's kind of drunk. He's like, I never thought a

2327
02:30:46,240 --> 02:30:49,800
Speaker 1: sky person would be brave. He's like, you guys fight

2328
02:30:49,959 --> 02:30:52,880
Speaker 1: far away and like those machines and stuff like that,

2329
02:30:52,920 --> 02:30:54,959
Speaker 1: you fight at a distance. I never thought one of

2330
02:30:54,959 --> 02:30:57,080
Speaker 1: them could be brave. And they had like a bonding

2331
02:30:57,160 --> 02:31:03,000
Speaker 1: moment and makes that fucking scene where he's like you

2332
02:31:03,160 --> 02:31:06,039
Speaker 1: made it with her like that much worse because it's like, dude,

2333
02:31:06,040 --> 02:31:09,520
Speaker 1: I thought we were broke and then you just And

2334
02:31:09,560 --> 02:31:12,520
Speaker 1: then they actually have a proper fight scene in the

2335
02:31:12,560 --> 02:31:15,760
Speaker 1: deleted scenes, and that one should have been good and

2336
02:31:15,920 --> 02:31:18,080
Speaker 1: that should have been in the re release and it's not.

2337
02:31:18,160 --> 02:31:20,240
Speaker 1: And I'm salty about it because he would have won.

2338
02:31:21,040 --> 02:31:24,400
Speaker 1: He would have won. They keep disrespecting my man, that

2339
02:31:24,600 --> 02:31:34,199
Speaker 1: entire fucking movie. Well, have we reached the end? I

2340
02:31:34,200 --> 02:31:38,000
Speaker 1: think we have what a journey, and yet I feel

2341
02:31:38,040 --> 02:31:42,760
Speaker 1: like there's still so much. Boy does this movie pass

2342
02:31:42,800 --> 02:31:45,400
Speaker 1: the back to test? Does it? Oh my gosh, I

2343
02:31:45,440 --> 02:31:49,520
Speaker 1: forgot to pay attention. Um, I can't. Really. There is

2344
02:31:49,560 --> 02:31:54,080
Speaker 1: a few that I flagged that I was like, maybe, like,

2345
02:31:54,360 --> 02:31:58,080
Speaker 1: there's a few close passes because like, Grace does speak

2346
02:31:58,080 --> 02:32:01,360
Speaker 1: to materies, like, but it's all is I don't think

2347
02:32:01,400 --> 02:32:04,440
Speaker 1: that it does. And now I have scholarly journal, Bechtel

2348
02:32:04,480 --> 02:32:07,879
Speaker 1: Test dot com up and the closest I can get

2349
02:32:07,920 --> 02:32:11,160
Speaker 1: to someone effectively making an argument because they're always talking

2350
02:32:11,160 --> 02:32:15,440
Speaker 1: about Jake. And the best argument I've been able to

2351
02:32:15,480 --> 02:32:19,039
Speaker 1: find was like, well, Grace talks to a what at

2352
02:32:19,080 --> 02:32:22,920
Speaker 1: the end window? I was like, well, that conversation doesn't

2353
02:32:22,920 --> 02:32:27,920
Speaker 1: even happen on screen, um, and she's literally telling Jake

2354
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:31,360
Speaker 1: about it. So Jake ruins this whole movie. He also

2355
02:32:31,480 --> 02:32:36,080
Speaker 1: prevents it from passing the Bechtel test. Congratulations Jake Sully, asshole.

2356
02:32:36,200 --> 02:32:39,760
Speaker 1: Damn it. And Terry doesn't pass the Ali Naty tests. God,

2357
02:32:39,879 --> 02:32:47,959
Speaker 1: damn it, damn it, goddamn it, son of a bitch. Jake, Well,

2358
02:32:47,959 --> 02:32:51,000
Speaker 1: what about our nipple scale though scale of zero to

2359
02:32:51,040 --> 02:32:53,600
Speaker 1: five nipples, where we rate the movie based on looking

2360
02:32:53,600 --> 02:33:00,440
Speaker 1: at it through an intersectional feminist lens um, I would say, oh, okay,

2361
02:33:00,480 --> 02:33:04,880
Speaker 1: here we go. James Cameron, he had good intentions. I

2362
02:33:04,920 --> 02:33:09,120
Speaker 1: think with this movie. He tried. He wanted to tell

2363
02:33:09,120 --> 02:33:17,560
Speaker 1: a story about anti capitalism, anti colonialism, anti military industrial complex,

2364
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:21,440
Speaker 1: and those messages are clear. However, when you dig a

2365
02:33:21,480 --> 02:33:24,200
Speaker 1: little deeper and you look at a lot of the

2366
02:33:24,240 --> 02:33:29,359
Speaker 1: implications of what's happening on screen, you realize that it's

2367
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:34,760
Speaker 1: a white savior story about a white guy who fails

2368
02:33:34,920 --> 02:33:40,320
Speaker 1: upward into somehow being a part of this community. Which

2369
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:43,480
Speaker 1: if this was a movie made by indigenous people, I

2370
02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:46,000
Speaker 1: don't think that would have ever happened like that would

2371
02:33:46,000 --> 02:33:48,400
Speaker 1: have never been written that way. That would have is

2372
02:33:48,440 --> 02:33:50,560
Speaker 1: not how that story would have panned out. It would

2373
02:33:50,560 --> 02:33:53,600
Speaker 1: have just been told from, you know, Natierie's point of view.

2374
02:33:54,200 --> 02:33:56,840
Speaker 1: Jake would have been eliminated from the story. In general.

2375
02:33:57,440 --> 02:34:01,560
Speaker 1: It would just be a story told from the omata

2376
02:34:01,600 --> 02:34:07,000
Speaker 1: Kaya people's perspective, and that would be the movie. So

2377
02:34:07,400 --> 02:34:10,920
Speaker 1: intentions good though they might have been, a lot of

2378
02:34:11,040 --> 02:34:16,880
Speaker 1: marks were missed as far as indigenous representation, as far

2379
02:34:17,040 --> 02:34:21,600
Speaker 1: as disability representation, and to some extent, I think the

2380
02:34:21,640 --> 02:34:24,200
Speaker 1: representation of women as well, because you could kind of

2381
02:34:24,240 --> 02:34:27,080
Speaker 1: easily make the argument that Niteria is presented as a

2382
02:34:27,120 --> 02:34:31,720
Speaker 1: plot trophy for Jake Sully doing the right thing, a

2383
02:34:31,760 --> 02:34:34,440
Speaker 1: prize to be one. She has more agency than that,

2384
02:34:34,480 --> 02:34:40,480
Speaker 1: though she does. But but again, if this movie, in

2385
02:34:40,560 --> 02:34:44,160
Speaker 1: our rewrite that we're going to do, um, Niteria would

2386
02:34:44,200 --> 02:34:51,600
Speaker 1: be which, first of all, it'll be on ice of ice.

2387
02:34:52,959 --> 02:34:55,720
Speaker 1: We'll find a way to work minions into the story,

2388
02:34:55,879 --> 02:34:59,200
Speaker 1: and Shrek will make an appearance. Obviously, minions would have

2389
02:34:59,200 --> 02:35:01,640
Speaker 1: worked for the current opinions, would have worked for the

2390
02:35:01,680 --> 02:35:05,039
Speaker 1: colonel for sure. Um, we're gonna do a rewrite. But no,

2391
02:35:05,320 --> 02:35:08,480
Speaker 1: the story should be Nati story like she should be

2392
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:11,800
Speaker 1: the protagonist. Jake Sally didn't even need to be there.

2393
02:35:12,400 --> 02:35:16,200
Speaker 1: So with all of that in mind, I'll give the

2394
02:35:16,240 --> 02:35:20,600
Speaker 1: movie to two and a half. It's kind of where

2395
02:35:20,600 --> 02:35:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm at Nipples. I'll land on two and a half

2396
02:35:24,480 --> 02:35:26,600
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, I still had

2397
02:35:26,600 --> 02:35:29,400
Speaker 1: a damn good time watching this movie. The movie felt

2398
02:35:29,440 --> 02:35:34,280
Speaker 1: like a movie. The movie feels like a movie. So

2399
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:39,959
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Natie, I'll give one to mowat

2400
02:35:40,440 --> 02:35:47,200
Speaker 1: her mother, and I'll give my half nipple to Pandora mother.

2401
02:35:47,320 --> 02:35:50,440
Speaker 1: A wa um, I guess I'll made you there. I

2402
02:35:50,520 --> 02:35:52,400
Speaker 1: kind of want to dog into too. I don't really

2403
02:35:52,720 --> 02:35:55,800
Speaker 1: know why. I don't have a good reason to go

2404
02:35:55,840 --> 02:35:58,400
Speaker 1: with your guts, but I'm going on this one. That's

2405
02:35:58,440 --> 02:36:01,959
Speaker 1: what your braid tentacles are telling you to go with it. Yes,

2406
02:36:02,040 --> 02:36:05,520
Speaker 1: I just saw this really funny tweet while you're um.

2407
02:36:05,560 --> 02:36:10,520
Speaker 1: It's James Cameron standing at the avatar to Premier. It's

2408
02:36:10,560 --> 02:36:13,080
Speaker 1: just him standing in front of the words tar. And

2409
02:36:13,120 --> 02:36:15,480
Speaker 1: it's like even James Cameron had to see what all

2410
02:36:15,520 --> 02:36:20,480
Speaker 1: the fuss is about and went to see tar. Okay,

2411
02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:24,119
Speaker 1: moving right along, I'm gonna I think that again. Yes,

2412
02:36:24,160 --> 02:36:27,600
Speaker 1: I think that, like James Cameron expresses certain themes very

2413
02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:30,320
Speaker 1: effectively here in a way that you never see even

2414
02:36:30,360 --> 02:36:34,160
Speaker 1: really attempted in blockbuster movies. He's always been good with this.

2415
02:36:34,360 --> 02:36:37,320
Speaker 1: He's made, you know, entire movies that are explicitly critical

2416
02:36:37,320 --> 02:36:41,280
Speaker 1: of the L A. P. D Um. He is generally good.

2417
02:36:41,320 --> 02:36:43,520
Speaker 1: I think he could have been better in this movie, honestly,

2418
02:36:43,560 --> 02:36:49,200
Speaker 1: about putting women in prominent and um motivated and interesting

2419
02:36:49,400 --> 02:36:52,400
Speaker 1: action roles. Um, I don't think this is the movie

2420
02:36:52,440 --> 02:36:53,840
Speaker 1: where he does it best, but he does it to

2421
02:36:53,920 --> 02:36:56,320
Speaker 1: some extent. You know, he's doing the things that he

2422
02:36:56,360 --> 02:36:58,879
Speaker 1: does well well and then when he's out of his depth,

2423
02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:02,640
Speaker 1: it's very obvi this. Yeah, but but I think that

2424
02:37:02,720 --> 02:37:05,199
Speaker 1: like it's I don't know, my experience of this movie

2425
02:37:05,240 --> 02:37:09,560
Speaker 1: has been so kind of colored by the changing ways

2426
02:37:09,600 --> 02:37:12,840
Speaker 1: that we've talked about it in the thirteen years it's existed.

2427
02:37:12,879 --> 02:37:15,240
Speaker 1: It feels like it's been around for sucking ever. And

2428
02:37:15,280 --> 02:37:17,400
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, there's a lot to love

2429
02:37:17,440 --> 02:37:20,680
Speaker 1: about this movie that we've been encouraged not to love

2430
02:37:21,160 --> 02:37:25,640
Speaker 1: because of how just media in general seems to view

2431
02:37:26,280 --> 02:37:30,360
Speaker 1: indigenous stories and centering Indigenous characters in any way, shape

2432
02:37:30,400 --> 02:37:32,320
Speaker 1: or form. And that's not to say that this movie

2433
02:37:32,320 --> 02:37:35,960
Speaker 1: does it particularly well. So I don't know. I guess

2434
02:37:35,959 --> 02:37:39,039
Speaker 1: I'll go two and a half because that was mostly complimentary.

2435
02:37:39,160 --> 02:37:43,080
Speaker 1: Uh that said, it doesn't pass the Printles test, and

2436
02:37:44,680 --> 02:37:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, and only one character passes the alien Nati test, right,

2437
02:37:48,280 --> 02:37:51,880
Speaker 1: but not the not the main woman that you'd expect,

2438
02:37:52,040 --> 02:37:55,520
Speaker 1: not in a terry and um, you don't get really

2439
02:37:55,600 --> 02:37:58,160
Speaker 1: any you know, there's too much Jake Sully. You don't

2440
02:37:58,160 --> 02:38:02,920
Speaker 1: get any interior look into what the what the Omedicaia

2441
02:38:03,360 --> 02:38:07,600
Speaker 1: are thinking when Jake Sully isn't there, which is I

2442
02:38:07,640 --> 02:38:10,920
Speaker 1: think a huge missed opportunity. And that's like supposedly, if

2443
02:38:11,000 --> 02:38:15,480
Speaker 1: James Cameron wants to make a movie that effectively addresses

2444
02:38:15,879 --> 02:38:19,560
Speaker 1: you know, Indigenous issues and concerns and culture. Um, then

2445
02:38:19,640 --> 02:38:24,320
Speaker 1: why is Jake Sully always there? Is my two and

2446
02:38:24,320 --> 02:38:27,920
Speaker 1: a half napples. I'm giving one to a tie, I'm

2447
02:38:27,959 --> 02:38:32,800
Speaker 1: given one to Niteri's mommy, why do I have the

2448
02:38:33,000 --> 02:38:35,680
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page for tar Up? Oh, it's because of the

2449
02:38:36,800 --> 02:38:40,280
Speaker 1: um giving one to I'm not giving one to tar

2450
02:38:40,840 --> 02:38:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm giving one Tonteria, one to Moat, and I will

2451
02:38:44,040 --> 02:38:53,160
Speaker 1: give the last half twa perfect beautiful Okay. So if

2452
02:38:53,200 --> 02:38:56,240
Speaker 1: you were to ask me back when it first came out,

2453
02:38:56,280 --> 02:38:59,240
Speaker 1: I probably would have gave it four four nipples off

2454
02:38:59,240 --> 02:39:04,600
Speaker 1: four of them. But now you know, after enough time,

2455
02:39:04,760 --> 02:39:10,000
Speaker 1: and especially after talking and communicating with other Indigenous people,

2456
02:39:10,120 --> 02:39:14,640
Speaker 1: especially indigenous creatives, and now that I've seen better, I

2457
02:39:14,720 --> 02:39:19,200
Speaker 1: know that we could do better. And there's absolutely no

2458
02:39:19,280 --> 02:39:23,160
Speaker 1: reason why Indigenous people shouldn't be allowed to tell stories

2459
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:29,800
Speaker 1: of the scale, you know, so I feel like I'm

2460
02:39:29,840 --> 02:39:34,080
Speaker 1: gonna give it three. I'll just commit and give it

2461
02:39:34,120 --> 02:39:37,120
Speaker 1: three because I did, and I did enjoy it. The

2462
02:39:37,160 --> 02:39:40,000
Speaker 1: stuff that I enjoyed I still very much enjoy I

2463
02:39:40,040 --> 02:39:43,119
Speaker 1: think it's beautiful, and I think like the special effects

2464
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:46,800
Speaker 1: and everything, and the fact that the water wasn't real

2465
02:39:47,120 --> 02:39:50,320
Speaker 1: like blew my mind. The fact that it remotely holds

2466
02:39:50,400 --> 02:39:53,840
Speaker 1: up is so wild. I know it looks it looks

2467
02:39:53,879 --> 02:39:58,080
Speaker 1: so good and uh, but the Aliens. Now, as someone

2468
02:39:58,120 --> 02:40:02,000
Speaker 1: who smashes Aliens and Mass Effect act for three games,

2469
02:40:02,959 --> 02:40:06,560
Speaker 1: I wish that the Aliens were to that caliber of

2470
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:09,560
Speaker 1: hot or at least because the characters in Mass Effect

2471
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:14,119
Speaker 1: have a lot more to offer as far as like

2472
02:40:14,400 --> 02:40:17,959
Speaker 1: their own stories, their own histories, their own opinions on things,

2473
02:40:18,080 --> 02:40:20,400
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. It's a BioWare games, so you're

2474
02:40:20,400 --> 02:40:23,240
Speaker 1: allowed to go deep. You couldn't go deep in this one.

2475
02:40:23,560 --> 02:40:29,400
Speaker 1: And there were too many human characters, not enough navy characters.

2476
02:40:29,800 --> 02:40:33,840
Speaker 1: Jake should have had a couple navvy friends outside of

2477
02:40:33,959 --> 02:40:39,520
Speaker 1: Natterie and outside of his bromance with Sute, just to

2478
02:40:39,600 --> 02:40:43,760
Speaker 1: like kind of build on why he switches side so

2479
02:40:43,840 --> 02:40:46,840
Speaker 1: fast and feels this connection to these people instead of

2480
02:40:46,920 --> 02:40:50,320
Speaker 1: just like, well I'm here, I'm here and blessed by God,

2481
02:40:50,560 --> 02:40:56,400
Speaker 1: so love me God. But um, but yeah, so I'll

2482
02:40:56,400 --> 02:40:59,040
Speaker 1: still give it the three star, three stars, three nipples,

2483
02:40:59,160 --> 02:41:03,560
Speaker 1: three pasties. Um one's is gonna go to na Terry

2484
02:41:04,200 --> 02:41:06,320
Speaker 1: one is going to go to Mowat for passing the

2485
02:41:06,360 --> 02:41:09,040
Speaker 1: Alienati test, and then the last one is going to

2486
02:41:09,080 --> 02:41:11,160
Speaker 1: go to suite because he should at least have one

2487
02:41:11,200 --> 02:41:15,080
Speaker 1: regular size nipples because his are so small. On top

2488
02:41:15,160 --> 02:41:21,160
Speaker 1: of everything else wrong, I have to give my mad

2489
02:41:21,320 --> 02:41:25,560
Speaker 1: some dignity because he got almost done in this movie.

2490
02:41:25,800 --> 02:41:27,920
Speaker 1: He did have a great death scene, but that's not

2491
02:41:27,959 --> 02:41:32,200
Speaker 1: saying much. Yeah, well, Elie, thank you as always for

2492
02:41:32,280 --> 02:41:35,800
Speaker 1: being here. It's been an absolute delight. Three time or

2493
02:41:36,280 --> 02:41:39,080
Speaker 1: we love to see it. There is one last thing

2494
02:41:39,120 --> 02:41:41,080
Speaker 1: I want to shout out while I'm here though, This

2495
02:41:41,360 --> 02:41:45,200
Speaker 1: is very important. So um, this has taken place in

2496
02:41:45,320 --> 02:41:50,920
Speaker 1: Winnipeg right now in Canada, and since uh, we're talking

2497
02:41:50,959 --> 02:41:54,720
Speaker 1: about indigenous people, let's actually talk about the real ones

2498
02:41:54,800 --> 02:41:58,600
Speaker 1: that exist today. But there is a situation happening right

2499
02:41:58,600 --> 02:42:02,600
Speaker 1: now where the daughters of Morgan Harris, who is an

2500
02:42:02,640 --> 02:42:06,680
Speaker 1: Indigenous woman in Canada who was murdered by a serial

2501
02:42:06,760 --> 02:42:12,240
Speaker 1: killer along with four other Indigenous women. They believe that

2502
02:42:12,720 --> 02:42:18,800
Speaker 1: their bodies are in the the Prairie Green Landfill the RCMP.

2503
02:42:19,000 --> 02:42:21,400
Speaker 1: So the Canadian police told them that they believe that

2504
02:42:21,400 --> 02:42:24,800
Speaker 1: that's where the serial killer dumped their bodies, and they're

2505
02:42:24,840 --> 02:42:29,680
Speaker 1: refusing to investigate because they said that it isn't feasible.

2506
02:42:30,120 --> 02:42:33,800
Speaker 1: So there essentially telling these girls that they have to

2507
02:42:33,879 --> 02:42:37,280
Speaker 1: make peace with their mother staying in a dumpster and

2508
02:42:37,400 --> 02:42:40,640
Speaker 1: not getting a burial, and these girls are fighting to

2509
02:42:40,840 --> 02:42:43,800
Speaker 1: push back and search the landfill. So I really wanted

2510
02:42:43,840 --> 02:42:47,199
Speaker 1: to just raise awareness to that and get the word

2511
02:42:47,240 --> 02:42:50,560
Speaker 1: out there because I heard about it two days ago

2512
02:42:50,959 --> 02:42:54,160
Speaker 1: and it's just not making as much waves as it

2513
02:42:54,200 --> 02:42:56,600
Speaker 1: should be. So do you know, if there's any kind

2514
02:42:56,640 --> 02:43:00,680
Speaker 1: of go fund me or anything to support, I will

2515
02:43:00,800 --> 02:43:03,280
Speaker 1: definitely look it up and send it your way if

2516
02:43:03,280 --> 02:43:05,840
Speaker 1: I but we'll post it in the show notes if

2517
02:43:05,959 --> 02:43:08,439
Speaker 1: if well, at least link to a story for context

2518
02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:11,800
Speaker 1: as well. That's yes, sucking, unconscionable. I was seeing what

2519
02:43:11,800 --> 02:43:13,879
Speaker 1: you were posting about it, and yeah, I also did

2520
02:43:13,920 --> 02:43:16,800
Speaker 1: not hear about it before you said something, yep. So

2521
02:43:16,959 --> 02:43:19,520
Speaker 1: if we could do anything good, I mean, like Avatar

2522
02:43:19,600 --> 02:43:22,320
Speaker 1: is great, but people are going to go see Avatar too,

2523
02:43:22,360 --> 02:43:24,880
Speaker 1: and not enough people are talking about this. So I'm

2524
02:43:24,920 --> 02:43:30,000
Speaker 1: definitely yes, spread the word. Thank you for that. Absolutely.

2525
02:43:30,560 --> 02:43:33,119
Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to plug as far as

2526
02:43:33,400 --> 02:43:37,960
Speaker 1: your own work, Well, I am kind of limiting my

2527
02:43:38,080 --> 02:43:41,440
Speaker 1: Twitter access, but I'm Ali Naughty on Twitter. I'm Ali

2528
02:43:41,560 --> 02:43:46,280
Speaker 1: Naughty on Instagram and TikTok. I'm back on Tumbler because

2529
02:43:46,760 --> 02:43:53,680
Speaker 1: I don't like so especially now, but I've been more

2530
02:43:53,760 --> 02:43:57,360
Speaker 1: active than on the Ali Naughty Tumbler account, which is

2531
02:43:57,360 --> 02:43:59,959
Speaker 1: still the Ala Test because that's how a lot of

2532
02:44:00,040 --> 02:44:04,200
Speaker 1: people know it. So I keep it there. And my

2533
02:44:04,280 --> 02:44:10,360
Speaker 1: sisters and I opened up a boutique, Darlings of our Mother,

2534
02:44:11,280 --> 02:44:14,640
Speaker 1: So check it out and buy some stuff. Very cool.

2535
02:44:14,760 --> 02:44:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah wait, that's huge for me. Okay, I can wait. Yeah,

2536
02:44:17,800 --> 02:44:22,560
Speaker 1: I'll send that to YouTube. Come back anytime please. Yeah.

2537
02:44:22,840 --> 02:44:29,320
Speaker 1: Wonderful and uh you can follow us on Instagram and

2538
02:44:29,600 --> 02:44:34,039
Speaker 1: Twitter at Bechtel Cast and um. Speaking of Twitter, there's

2539
02:44:34,080 --> 02:44:39,480
Speaker 1: a pretty good tweet that we found. Oh okay, this

2540
02:44:39,560 --> 02:44:42,200
Speaker 1: is It feels like an end of the Daily Zeitgeist episode,

2541
02:44:42,320 --> 02:44:46,520
Speaker 1: like tweets you like, okay, but this was one that

2542
02:44:46,600 --> 02:44:50,000
Speaker 1: really just It's from the l A Times review of

2543
02:44:50,080 --> 02:44:52,879
Speaker 1: Avatar Way of Water, which is a quite good review.

2544
02:44:52,920 --> 02:44:56,800
Speaker 1: It's getting quite good early reviews. Folks. Um, we haven't

2545
02:44:56,800 --> 02:45:00,600
Speaker 1: seen it yet, but the critics are sa drav ing

2546
02:45:00,840 --> 02:45:04,720
Speaker 1: about the Way of Water. But this is from Justin Chang,

2547
02:45:05,280 --> 02:45:09,280
Speaker 1: the film critic over at the l A Times. Um.

2548
02:45:09,320 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 1: He references how Avatar Too is about Jake Sully being

2549
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:17,879
Speaker 1: a loving father in the second movie, and then he says,

2550
02:45:17,920 --> 02:45:24,000
Speaker 1: and I quote, you could say he's a police Navy dad.

2551
02:45:25,879 --> 02:45:31,400
Speaker 1: It's so good, twitters. It's still horrible, but there are

2552
02:45:31,440 --> 02:45:35,400
Speaker 1: there are moments there, moments that was my moment that

2553
02:45:35,440 --> 02:45:38,360
Speaker 1: really meant a lot to us. Um. You can also

2554
02:45:38,360 --> 02:45:41,320
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram, where I did not receive that information,

2555
02:45:41,360 --> 02:45:44,000
Speaker 1: but it is. You know, it's another platform where we're at.

2556
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:48,600
Speaker 1: We're also going on tour reminder West Coast. You can

2557
02:45:48,640 --> 02:45:51,120
Speaker 1: find that in the link in our bios and the

2558
02:45:51,200 --> 02:45:53,480
Speaker 1: link in this description as well. We're going to be

2559
02:45:53,879 --> 02:45:59,080
Speaker 1: in l A, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle at the

2560
02:45:59,200 --> 02:46:02,280
Speaker 1: end of January into the beginning of February. More info

2561
02:46:02,400 --> 02:46:04,959
Speaker 1: about that at the link, and you can join our

2562
02:46:04,959 --> 02:46:08,080
Speaker 1: patrion ak Matreon. What the hell is that case, Oh

2563
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:11,000
Speaker 1: my gosh. It's a place where you can get to

2564
02:46:11,320 --> 02:46:14,640
Speaker 1: bonus episodes of the Bechtel Cast, usually just Jamie and

2565
02:46:14,720 --> 02:46:16,879
Speaker 1: I hoof and goof and goofing, but we're also having

2566
02:46:16,959 --> 02:46:21,520
Speaker 1: awesome discourse and um and you get access to the

2567
02:46:21,560 --> 02:46:25,120
Speaker 1: back catalog of well over one hundred bonus episodes. So

2568
02:46:25,160 --> 02:46:28,200
Speaker 1: if you've run out of main feed episodes, scoot on

2569
02:46:28,280 --> 02:46:33,480
Speaker 1: over to patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. And it's December,

2570
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:36,440
Speaker 1: so we're doing our cursed holiday movie round up. We

2571
02:46:37,000 --> 02:46:41,760
Speaker 1: have already released our Netflix original Lindsay Lohan Falling for Christmas,

2572
02:46:41,879 --> 02:46:45,160
Speaker 1: a movie where a little girl's Christmas, which is for

2573
02:46:45,280 --> 02:46:48,920
Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan to fall off of a mountain. And we'll

2574
02:46:48,920 --> 02:46:51,160
Speaker 1: also be doing while you were sleeping. And I also

2575
02:46:51,200 --> 02:46:56,359
Speaker 1: I was getting excited today because January is the Pinocchio

2576
02:46:56,520 --> 02:47:00,360
Speaker 1: Wars episode and so we just we have a hell

2577
02:47:00,440 --> 02:47:03,920
Speaker 1: of a time over there. Joined the community, Joined, joined

2578
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:08,880
Speaker 1: the movement that is the Matreon um. And finally, it's

2579
02:47:08,879 --> 02:47:12,280
Speaker 1: the holiday so if you're looking for gifts, last minute gifts,

2580
02:47:12,280 --> 02:47:14,240
Speaker 1: you can go to our store over at t public

2581
02:47:14,280 --> 02:47:18,000
Speaker 1: dot com slash v Bechtel Cast. We actually have some

2582
02:47:18,080 --> 02:47:23,400
Speaker 1: new designs just came out pretty fun feminist icon Paddington

2583
02:47:23,959 --> 02:47:28,160
Speaker 1: Shreky in which came up in this episode. It's cannon

2584
02:47:28,200 --> 02:47:31,080
Speaker 1: to the show is. And um, also just one that

2585
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:33,200
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to make for myself that we

2586
02:47:33,280 --> 02:47:36,280
Speaker 1: have referenced on the show, which is the Flobber Mambo.

2587
02:47:37,080 --> 02:47:42,680
Speaker 1: Bye Danny Alfman. So that plus classic designs including our

2588
02:47:42,760 --> 02:47:46,600
Speaker 1: holiday baby Grinch designs that over there get some gifts,

2589
02:47:47,000 --> 02:47:51,640
Speaker 1: uh and live your damn life exactly. And um, hey

2590
02:47:51,879 --> 02:48:00,160
Speaker 1: Jamie Ali, I see you. Bye bye m