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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I

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Speaker 1: am your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode three

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Speaker 1: and fifty three. Today in the show, I am joined

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Speaker 1: by Hale Herring to explore what it means to be

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Speaker 1: and even how to be a conservationist in a post

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Speaker 1: pandemic world. All right, welcome to the Wire dhun podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by on X Today. My guest is

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Speaker 1: Hal Herring, and Hall was on the podcast five or

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Speaker 1: six months ago, but it was a very different scenario

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Speaker 1: because Hale was actually interviewing me. This time, I'm flipping

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Speaker 1: the tables and I'm back in the interview seat. He

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Speaker 1: is the guest, and if you're not familiar, Hell is

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Speaker 1: the host of at Country, Hunters and Anglers, their podcast

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Speaker 1: and Blast. He is a tremendous conservationist and advocate for

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Speaker 1: wild places and wild animals. He is a writer for

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Speaker 1: Field and Stream and a number of other outlets, and

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Speaker 1: he's just become one of the one of the voices

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Speaker 1: and leaders that I have turned to and pointed back

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Speaker 1: to and learned from. So much in my own journey

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Speaker 1: as um. You know someone who wants to be an

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Speaker 1: effective conservationist and advocate and I'm learning and growing and

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Speaker 1: trying to make some kind of positive impact. Well, Hell

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Speaker 1: is someone who's been able to do that. And I

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Speaker 1: thought today we could pick his brain about where he

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Speaker 1: thinks we're going now that we are heading towards some

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Speaker 1: kind of new normal. The world has changed. We all

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Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. The last few months have

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Speaker 1: been strange, scary, different, um, just different, and I gotta

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Speaker 1: believe that means things are gonna be different moving forward

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Speaker 1: when it comes to advocacy, when it comes to sticking

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Speaker 1: up for the environment and the conservation of wildlife and

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Speaker 1: public lands and all these different things. So this is

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Speaker 1: a this is a a different kind of conversation that

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Speaker 1: we kind of go all over the place. We discuss.

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Speaker 1: You know, some of the things inspired Hal to try

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Speaker 1: to become someone who could advocate for these things. We

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Speaker 1: talk about ways he's tried to funnel his frustration or

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Speaker 1: anger or disappointment, discouragement, all these different things. How do

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Speaker 1: you take those emotions? How do you use that for good?

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Speaker 1: How can you filter all the stuff out there? How

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Speaker 1: can you listen to what one person says and then

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Speaker 1: the different idea from another person and then try to

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Speaker 1: fare out what's true. How do you realize or learn

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Speaker 1: what issues we should fight for and which ones maybe

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Speaker 1: we step step back from. How do we write effective

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Speaker 1: letters or make phone calls to actually make a difference.

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Speaker 1: How do we make a difference? It seems sometimes like

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Speaker 1: I post something on Facebook, excite this petition? Does that

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Speaker 1: do any good at all? Does anything that we as

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Speaker 1: individuals do make a difference, Especially now that this whole

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Speaker 1: ship storm of a pandemic has hit us across the country,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like everyone's so focused on on that,

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Speaker 1: on health and the economy. Is there even time and

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Speaker 1: energy and oxygen left in the room to talk about

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Speaker 1: conservation public lands. That is what we talk about with

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Speaker 1: Hail today. I think if you listen to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: you are a hunter. If you're a hunter and you

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Speaker 1: listen to this podcast, you care about these things. You

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Speaker 1: care about deer, you care about wild places, You care

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Speaker 1: about wilderness, You care about water and air and dirt

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Speaker 1: and critters, and you want to keep these things around.

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Speaker 1: And the way we are going to do that is

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Speaker 1: by figuring out how to be a conservationist, and now

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Speaker 1: we need to fare out how to do that in

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Speaker 1: this weird pandemic and hopefully post pandemic world. That's our

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Speaker 1: conversation today. I hope you will listen in. I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy it. I hope you learn something from it

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Speaker 1: or become inspired by it. Um. I certainly was, and

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to get out there and kick some tale.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, thank you all for listening, and

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Speaker 1: let's get right to it with Hall Haring. All right,

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Speaker 1: I am very excited to have hell Heiring with me

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Hell welcome to the show. Thanks Mark

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Speaker 1: here Man. Yeah, you know, you had me on your

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Speaker 1: podcast a few months ago, so it just seemed only

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Speaker 1: right that I should return the favor and have you

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Speaker 1: on mine. So it's it's nice to have the control again.

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Speaker 1: I'm back at the driver's seat. We're some used to, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. It was when we did down there in Boman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which was cool that you were in in uh within

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Speaker 1: shouting distance where I could come down there and do that.

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Speaker 1: That worked out great and I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun too, and h man, it was it was really

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Speaker 1: it was fun for me to have this reversal of

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Speaker 1: roles where someone's asking me about my perspective on some

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Speaker 1: of these conservation or public land related topics. Um. But

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Speaker 1: the whole time we were talking, I found myself wanting

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Speaker 1: to keep asking you questions. And so so now now

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Speaker 1: I've got I've got all these questions, I'm gonna push

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Speaker 1: it you a lot of different things I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about. It's a it's a weird time right now

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Speaker 1: in the spring of as you know, of course. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right there. We're in the same boat on that.

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Speaker 1: You know, how how how are you handling things? How?

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Speaker 1: How has this changed your typical spring activities, lifestyle anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Well, at first it was kind of, Um,

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Speaker 1: I was pretty relaxed about it because for one, I

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Speaker 1: had more time to put in like a bigger garden. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I was kind of obsessively pushing the fishing season here.

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Speaker 1: I got. I got into fishing real early, and I

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Speaker 1: was almost it wasn't like a vacation, but it was

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Speaker 1: a time out of time sort of. And then um,

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Speaker 1: and then it as as the drag owned of that

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Speaker 1: came in, I realized I had to get back to

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Speaker 1: work and I had to get lots of work done,

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Speaker 1: and that was pretty hard. Um. You know, my kids

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Speaker 1: were home. My daughter it's fine, she's working, baby sitting

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Speaker 1: on a ranch. My son is is cowboy and on

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Speaker 1: the broken old ranch west of town. But both of

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Speaker 1: them were home, you know. And um, and then my

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Speaker 1: wife was working at the library and keeping it open,

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Speaker 1: but nobody could come in and so it was just

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Speaker 1: sort of Um, it's as if the carpet underneath you

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Speaker 1: was constantly shifting. It's a good way to put it.

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Speaker 1: Which is hard. It's distracted, it is it is you. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you've been hard at work, though still on on some

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Speaker 1: some projects related to a lot of the stuff writing

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Speaker 1: about public lands and whatnot as well too, right I am.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm working on a on a book length project

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Speaker 1: on the public lands. Um. Hopefully it will be almost

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Speaker 1: as good it is yours, certainly, ra I've certainly been

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Speaker 1: ransacking yours to see what what new things I had

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Speaker 1: to offer it. Uh, but um, it's yeah, I'm working

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Speaker 1: on that. And I was super lucky to have that

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Speaker 1: project underway before the shutdown. Um. I did a fielding

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Speaker 1: screen story that I turned in like right the first

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Speaker 1: of March, and I came back from the Shot Show,

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Speaker 1: which was by all rights should that Las Vegas should

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Speaker 1: have been the epicenter of of the COVID virus because

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Speaker 1: it was the Year of the Rat and and it

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Speaker 1: was on the same day that Hubei Province was shut

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Speaker 1: down that the Shot Show and the Year of the

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Speaker 1: Rat celebrations launched in in Las Vegas. And one of

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Speaker 1: the mysteries here is it's not an epicenter of the

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Speaker 1: epdym of the pandemic, so nobody knows anything. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's something we could talk about questions. We have great scientists,

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Speaker 1: we have great science, but the world, including viruses, are

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Speaker 1: a mystery to us. And maybe there's a lesson there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel I feel like those questions,

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Speaker 1: asking those things, wonder about those things. That's probably what

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Speaker 1: makes you such an interesting and helpful writer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what makes any of us a writer probably

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Speaker 1: are creators. Is being curious today is being curious for sure,

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Speaker 1: like and and one and there and then and then

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Speaker 1: there's another element of that because no, I don't really

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Speaker 1: know about the motivation of viruses. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: they're doing, but I do know, like if you take

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Speaker 1: care of and I'm not doing a soapbox here, but

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Speaker 1: if you go and do a restoration project on a

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Speaker 1: trout stream or on a on a tributary to your

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Speaker 1: favorite catfish river, that you can throw a stone and

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Speaker 1: have a real effect that you can see. And so

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Speaker 1: there's this balance between the things that we cannot know,

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Speaker 1: the the all the huge world of mystery and peril,

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Speaker 1: and the things that we can actually address, which not

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Speaker 1: surprisingly might help you get through the things you can't

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Speaker 1: understand or can't see coming. It's it's funny you bring

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Speaker 1: this up, and this is this is exactly one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I want to talk to you about,

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Speaker 1: which is this whole idea of like the things you

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Speaker 1: can control or the things you can maybe have an

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Speaker 1: impact on. Uh. As someone who at a young age

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Speaker 1: just fell in love with the outdoor world, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until I got into my twenties when I started thinking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what my impact was on this natural world

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Speaker 1: I love so much? Um And then once I started

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Speaker 1: thinking about that, it was this massive kind of cascade

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Speaker 1: of different questions and answers and well, what does this

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Speaker 1: mean then? Or what should I do about that? Given this, Um,

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Speaker 1: When when did that happen for you? Like when did

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Speaker 1: you realize that you had an impact or that you

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Speaker 1: had or that or that you could make a di

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Speaker 1: friends or anything. When when did you realize that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to do what you're doing now, which is writing

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Speaker 1: about and advocating for uh, wild places and wild animals

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Speaker 1: and things like that. Well, I don't think I had

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Speaker 1: a choice so much, um, like when I was where

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Speaker 1: I grew up in North Alabama, and that the development

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Speaker 1: there is double, triple, quadruple what it was when I

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Speaker 1: was born, um, And so like from an early age

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Speaker 1: my parents were they they bought a farm outside of

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Speaker 1: Huntsville and we all we we lived out there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But from an early age they were like, isn't that beautiful?

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Speaker 1: You know, wouldn't it be? Isn't it sad that they've

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Speaker 1: channelized the creek you know, where we all fished. And

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Speaker 1: so I was steeped in that kind of idea early.

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Speaker 1: I mean that the idea of natural beauty and and

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Speaker 1: like my parents were very religious and so like that

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Speaker 1: like God and and not so much steward ship, but

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Speaker 1: just the mystery of creation. Right, I was always there,

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Speaker 1: So it was really deep, deep and grained in me um,

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Speaker 1: and then it was doubled down because you could go

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Speaker 1: out there and snag red horse in the spring, these beautiful,

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Speaker 1: huge suckers and that would run up this creek and

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Speaker 1: you would bring them home and eat them, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they were bony. Or you could shoot a rabbit

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Speaker 1: and have it for supper, and like like you spend

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Speaker 1: just like all of your time immersed in this thing,

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Speaker 1: and so later on, I don't think it was quid

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Speaker 1: bro quoa. I think it was just like, you know what, Mark,

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Speaker 1: One of the things I saw was like, holy smokes,

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Speaker 1: you could fix that, you know. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: got into the game. Farming stories is one of the

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Speaker 1: very first big investigative journalism thing I ever did. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, they just built a huge game

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Speaker 1: proof fence across the wild mule deer migration path, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so now what are the legal and ethic the

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Speaker 1: ramifications of that? Right, all these builders showed up on

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Speaker 1: the highway down at Derby and got run over. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not funny, but you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: was like, damn, you could take that fence down and

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Speaker 1: make it better. Um. But somebody owns that fence, So

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Speaker 1: how do we deal with that? You know? What? Were

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Speaker 1: the almost like it's it's almost like it's fairly simple, right,

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Speaker 1: But but it's not though, because it's it's not easier

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Speaker 1: said than done, I think, for right, which is incredibly interesting.

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Speaker 1: Who when did you realize that you could do it? Though?

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Speaker 1: Or was there I don't know, was there a person,

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Speaker 1: was there something you read? Was there was there some

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Speaker 1: kick in the ass that went from oh, there's something

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Speaker 1: you could do to damn it, I have to be

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Speaker 1: the one to do it. Well it No, there was

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Speaker 1: a but I did read Ted Williams a lot um

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Speaker 1: and in my twenties, like in my late twenties, and

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Speaker 1: Ted Williams was doing what I it auto bond. He

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Speaker 1: had a column called Insight, and um, I read that

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Speaker 1: one up in that about game farm and one of

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Speaker 1: the ones I found because I was getting interested in this.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I worked as a laboring person

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Speaker 1: weird labor jobs, and so I never made a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. And so to sell a story about something

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Speaker 1: that I was already like really passionate about, um and

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Speaker 1: get a check for sake, six hundred bucks or twelve bucks,

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Speaker 1: you're like, a, whoa, this is something maybe I can do. Um.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty much how I got into it. I did

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Speaker 1: not ever I would. I had a lot of fury

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Speaker 1: about like like ecological devastation, but I didn't really do

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Speaker 1: much with it. And I was lucky to meet people.

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Speaker 1: I worked on trail crew for a guy who was

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Speaker 1: very important. He he said, you know, anger is not

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Speaker 1: really uh, that's not really substantive way to address things

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Speaker 1: that bother you unfocused anger. Are you that ranting on

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Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter is not a productive use of my time? Hill,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I share your guilt. It's funny, though,

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Speaker 1: because these days, with social media, it is so easy

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Speaker 1: to have that fury and put out there in the world.

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Speaker 1: And there's some, at least for some people, there's some

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Speaker 1: uh I don't know, a little bit of therapeutic effect

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Speaker 1: to doing that. But you're not really doing anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some catharsis there, but you're not really doing anything.

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Speaker 1: You're getting almost the illusion of accomplishment, but it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not really impacting things in a substantial way other

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Speaker 1: than annoying whoever follows you on social media, so it's

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Speaker 1: dangerous and that you lose friends over it that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise know that you had these ideas. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it gets It can get real toxic and nasty, that's

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Speaker 1: for sure. I've I've strongly thought about just getting off

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Speaker 1: of Facebook totally because I've just gotten sick of a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff I've seen there. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I find myself having some fury too, and I wish,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's times I want to just yell at

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Speaker 1: the world. How do you channel how do you channel that?

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Speaker 1: How do you how do you do how do you

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Speaker 1: figure out what to do or how to do something

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Speaker 1: with that these days? Because you know, when you and

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Speaker 1: I were sitting there together in Bowsman a couple of

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Speaker 1: months ago, we talked about Ed Abbey. Edward Abbey, he

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Speaker 1: was this guy who had a whole lot of piston vinegar.

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Speaker 1: He had some fury, and you know, he he found

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Speaker 1: some positive ways to use that fury to impact change,

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Speaker 1: and maybe he talked to us some things that we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't condone too. But how do we channel the good

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Speaker 1: part of that fury and do good with it? How

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Speaker 1: do you think about that, well, I would say there's

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Speaker 1: several things in there. One thing Abby came from was

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Speaker 1: a place of incredibly deep love for that place where

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Speaker 1: he found himself in the desert. Um, like behind the anger,

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Speaker 1: behind the polemicist, there's a person who is unbelievably happy

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Speaker 1: to walk through the desert for miles and miles and

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Speaker 1: just look at stuff and pull it all in. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so that's different than a person who's just walking

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Speaker 1: around in a in a fury. Uh does that make sense? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's got The foundation is strong. The foundation is is

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Speaker 1: like irrefutable, like like this guy really loves this, you know.

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Speaker 1: One of the quotes was like, you know, let's love America.

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Speaker 1: Let's save some of it. Yeah yeah, and um, and

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Speaker 1: I just you know, I got introduced to his work

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Speaker 1: really early because my father loved that movie. Um it's

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Speaker 1: called The Brave Cowboys and it was made with Kurt

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Speaker 1: Douglas Lonely or The Brave and um, he was really

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Speaker 1: interested in that movie, which is strange. I mean he

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Speaker 1: was a lawyer and wasn't particularly into anarchist theory and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But uh, that so we had that book and then

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Speaker 1: years later I saw like desert, solitary and all the

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Speaker 1: all those other stuff. Um, but I think that that's

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Speaker 1: part of it is you gotta be you gotta love

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Speaker 1: stuff first, you know. Um. And then the other part

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Speaker 1: of it is that really cool thing about journalism, which

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Speaker 1: is it's not always practiced, for sure, but where you

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Speaker 1: really and truly insist own abandoning your own biases, your

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Speaker 1: own expectations and your own hopes for what something might be,

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Speaker 1: and you just sit there and go off and take

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Speaker 1: it in and let the chips fall, the truth chips

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Speaker 1: fall where they may. You're you're looking for truth, whether

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Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable, whether you hate what you find. And that's

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Speaker 1: a really cool, like spiritual discipline, a positive thing probably

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Speaker 1: for people to do, whether their journalists or not. Exactly

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Speaker 1: and and incredibly difficult, and um, I definitely don't expect

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Speaker 1: everybody to do that anymore than I expect somebody to

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Speaker 1: go to a zen monastery or you know, walk do

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Speaker 1: the snow leopard trail into bed or whatever. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's more fun to crush the beer can on your

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Speaker 1: head and said that guy, Yeah, yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: way more fun and more liberating and all. But but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really lead anywhere right now. It raises a

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Speaker 1: good question, just in generally, how to how to filter

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Speaker 1: all the stuff out there right now? Because you could

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Speaker 1: take any particular issue that's relevant to this conversation, whether

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Speaker 1: it be some new regulation or deregulation of something in

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Speaker 1: the energy industry, or it could be privatization of public

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Speaker 1: lands or something, and there's gonna be people on all

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Speaker 1: sides of the issue telling you this is right, this

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Speaker 1: is wrong, believe me, don't believe for him, so on

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Um, and it's so easy now to

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Speaker 1: get the truth lost. You wrote something last year a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago on Field and Stream was something like,

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Speaker 1: how do you write in a post truth era? Or

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Speaker 1: something on those lives? How do you I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I don't know if we are in a post

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Speaker 1: truth erab, but how do you go about filtering everything

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Speaker 1: given just the confusion of everything these days? Well, in

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Speaker 1: that essay I wrote, you know, if you believe in

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Speaker 1: a post truth error, then you should pull on a

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Speaker 1: pair of tennis shoes without your socks and go for

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Speaker 1: a jog and the Bob Marshall Wilderness when it's twenty

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Speaker 1: three below and get we wei out there where you

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Speaker 1: know you can't get home by dark, and then tell

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Speaker 1: me about post truth um, so relative of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea that nothing can truly be be defined. It's

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Speaker 1: not something that hunters and fishermen and real outdoorsman um

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Speaker 1: will ever gonna embrace. Not not no, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: mean you don't put the plug in the john bo

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Speaker 1: to your going down? Are your futable? Yeah? They are?

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Speaker 1: And the and the plug is a very simple thing

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Speaker 1: to put in there, you know what I mean. It's

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Speaker 1: like so there, but human perceptions of of that truth

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Speaker 1: all are are in conflict. And the nature of a

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Speaker 1: democratic republic like ours is to let the best argument

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Speaker 1: win if it's presented in a way that people will

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Speaker 1: listen to it. And I keep coming back to this.

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Speaker 1: It's like the freedom of public lands, restoring floodplains and fisheries,

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Speaker 1: removing unnecessary dams, having effective and clear regulations about air

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Speaker 1: and clean water, and then incentives to get people to

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Speaker 1: follow those rather than trying to dodge them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: those are things we can actually do. And I promise

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Speaker 1: you that the truth of say the Des Moines Water District,

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Speaker 1: where they cannot purify that water enough to to meet

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Speaker 1: safe drinking water standards. That's not post truth, that's just real.

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Speaker 1: You drink that, it's not gonna be good for you.

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Speaker 1: You take you you restore those wet lands upstreamed, You

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Speaker 1: incentivize those farmers upstream to stop putting that fertilizer in there.

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about regulation and incentive. I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about taking people's profits, because we all we're all on

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Speaker 1: the edge with money in this country because things are

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Speaker 1: so expensive in our life that's very We have a

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Speaker 1: lot of expectation. So you incentivize you can clean that up.

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Speaker 1: This is something we could all agree on. The question though,

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Speaker 1: then becomes for a lot of people it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: those things like the idea sounds really good. I certainly

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Speaker 1: agree with it, but then there's gonna be someone who's

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Speaker 1: gonna come at you with this. Others say, well, know

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Speaker 1: they're taking away personal freedoms of private property rights, or

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Speaker 1: their de incentivizing business, or they're making it harder for

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Speaker 1: people to keep jobs. There's always these there's so many

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Speaker 1: of these different angles that it's hard to part. So

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Speaker 1: I think from a really practical standpoint, for like an

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Speaker 1: average person, a guy or girl out there listening who

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Speaker 1: they've got their job. They don't work in this space,

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Speaker 1: but they love the outdoors. They love hunting and fishing

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Speaker 1: in wild places. And they're trying to make sense of

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Speaker 1: all this stuff that's coming in. And some of this

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Speaker 1: stuff they're here in you or me saying, hey, pay

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Speaker 1: attention to this. Some of this stuff they're seeing on

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Speaker 1: the news. Some of this stuff they're wondering, Okay, is

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Speaker 1: this important? Is this not important? Is this a good

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Speaker 1: thing or is this actually bad? How do you go

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Speaker 1: about like truth checking or verifying? How do you how

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Speaker 1: do you bs check all these different environmental issues or regulations? Um?

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Speaker 1: Because maybe there are some things that are an overreach,

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Speaker 1: maybe not, Like what's the process, the actual nuts and

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Speaker 1: bolts process you go through to learn about, say, for example,

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Speaker 1: the waters of the U S rule, Like, how do

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Speaker 1: you go about and figure out? Okay, how do I

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Speaker 1: get a an informed, clear perspective on this that can

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Speaker 1: help me decide whether I want to advocate for it

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Speaker 1: or not? Um? How can an average person a great question?

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Speaker 1: And so, as a journalist, what I'm gonna do? One thing?

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Speaker 1: I am coming that something from an assumption though that

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Speaker 1: clean water is better than like polluted water. Um that

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Speaker 1: that that is a bias. I have people share that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm saying. Most people share that.

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Speaker 1: So how do we get that? And was the orders

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Speaker 1: of the US rule a effective way to achieve that goal?

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Speaker 1: And the answer to that for me was I spent

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Speaker 1: I spent years and nobody in the in if you're

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Speaker 1: a roof and contractor or um or or a financial

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Speaker 1: reporter or whatever, nobody's gonna do this. So that this

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Speaker 1: is my job. I got paid to do it. You know. Um,

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Speaker 1: you talk to everybody on all sides of that, and

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Speaker 1: you're really careful with Like when in that one with

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Speaker 1: the Farm Bureau, who was really against the orders of

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Speaker 1: the US rule? Um? I found people on both sides

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Speaker 1: of that who are so for it or so against

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Speaker 1: it to be less trustworthy than those who simply wanted

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Speaker 1: the goal of clean water? Does that make sense? And

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Speaker 1: so you really get away from the advocates, the the

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Speaker 1: the the die hard advocates, and you go to people

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Speaker 1: who have a more objective view. And again, my biases

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Speaker 1: for clean water versus balluted water. So how do we

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Speaker 1: achieve that? And in my opinion, after writing all of

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Speaker 1: those for so long. The Waters of the US Act

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Speaker 1: was a very well written very you took into account

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Speaker 1: private property rights and eventualities and all but one of

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Speaker 1: the things it required. There's two things that were wrong

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Speaker 1: with it. One they knew they couldn't get through Congress

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Speaker 1: because the farmers, developers and some of the mining interests

430
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: did not want it, and they had more clout in

431
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: Congress than the people who just wanted to try to

432
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: make this Clean Water Act it you know, expanded, and

433
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: so they wrote it as a rule for the e

434
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: p A. I can tell you there's a problem with that,

435
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: because we, the people in our congressional representatives, didn't get

436
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: to look at that. Impassive rules are very dangerous when

437
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: put into place for bi federal agencies because they are

438
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: the province of unelected And I don't like the word

439
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: bureaucrats because I know people who serve in those positions

440
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: with incredible integrity and honor. But they are they they

441
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: are now in charge of imposing this rule on the people.

442
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: It's not a law. My opinion is we should put

443
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: the Waters of the US Act through Congress, let everybody

444
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: fight over it, and let's pass something however we can

445
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: that that will approximate it. But as it was, there

446
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: were too many people who were convinced that it was over.

447
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: It was stepping on people's property rights. Back to back

448
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: to the every man who's looking at this, what are

449
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: some of the resources that maybe, like if if I'm

450
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: a listener and I'm wondering to myself, Okay, I'm gonna

451
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: be trying to pay attention to some of these top

452
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: level issues when they come down the line. I want

453
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 1: to try to listen to different sources. I want to

454
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: try to get a informed opinion. Do you have any

455
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: recommended resources or types of people or types of websites

456
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: or I don't know anything that you would recommend people

457
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: turned to to try to get a clear understanding of

458
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: these different pieces of legislation or rules or issues that

459
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: impact conservations. I got it. So I'm gonna say, if

460
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 1: you're a hunter and a fisherman, and and you you

461
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: really care about the environment that you hunt in fishing

462
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: that you pass under your kids, um, I don't think

463
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: it's the bad thing to go to an advocacy organization

464
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: like Trout Unlimited and get their policy directs and say

465
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: and then and then look at those with the traditional

466
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: grain of salt. You know, this is their job. They're

467
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: an advocate for the clean water. So but I do

468
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: think that back country Hunters and Anglers and National Wildlife

469
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: Federation and Trout Unlimited are in good faith and they

470
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: will give you a rundown on what they think is

471
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: important to to protect clean water, air, white public lands, whatever.

472
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: And so these organizations are very they're very important. Now

473
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: that said, you go, if you have worries, you you

474
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: ask them, and then you go and you read. And

475
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: one of the things that happened in the the Tyson

476
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: chicken spill on the Mulberry Fork of the Black Warrior

477
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: in Alabama, which is last like last winter. Local coverage

478
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: of that thing was great and it was not biased,

479
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: and people were furious at Tyson and they they asked

480
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: Tyson why they did it. And the local coverage was very,

481
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: very good. And so you gotta read. You gotta get

482
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: off the internet and get a local paper whatever danger

483
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 1: there in. I was building a fire this morning and

484
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: reading the hell of an independent record, which I don't

485
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: get anymore because we don't deliver it here. And I

486
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: was learning things about my community, my county that I

487
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: would never get in a million years reading on the

488
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: internet because it's not local news. And that's a pair.

489
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: That's a peril we're in as a democratic republic that

490
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: depends on the First Amendment, the freedom of speech and

491
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: the press. I mean, we need local news, good local news.

492
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: I wonder about this often, just whether it be the

493
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: local news or is the larger, the larger top level

494
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: designation of news or resources that you can trust. I

495
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: think trust is the thing these days that is exceedingly

496
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: hard to pin down. Y can I can we go back?

497
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Guess Rerecords said the Waters of the US Act, it

498
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: required that the American people have some level of trust

499
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: in that environmental protection agency and and buy extrapolation the

500
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: federal government the Waters of the US Act in order

501
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: for it to work the rule, it meant that we

502
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: had to trust the federal government not to overreach on

503
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: our private properties and the and the end result was

504
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: it was it was a huge propaganda campaign against it, yes,

505
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: but the end result was that the American people decided

506
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: that they didn't trust the federal government that much. And

507
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: that's fine. I think not to trust is good. Like

508
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: the old Arabic proverb to trust is wonderful. Not to

509
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: trust is better. Uh, I think that's good, but that

510
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: comes with a penalty, and your lack of trust in

511
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: the government that you have can can wind up being

512
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: running you towards a failed state model. Do you do

513
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: you trust our government? I think that the government should

514
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: be recognized as we the people of and foreign by,

515
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and it should be checked at every turn and asked

516
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: if this is the right way. That's an exhaustion process.

517
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: But I think that the institutions are sound, you know,

518
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: I think that the ideas are sound, but it's it is.

519
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: It may be a government of laws and not men,

520
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: but men are administered in those laws, and men, as

521
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: we all know, and women and children are foul mm hm.

522
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: So within that context, understanding that we live in this

523
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: world where there's all these things that are happening that

524
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: are impacting the resources we care about, and we have

525
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: a fallible government that is built on strong foundations in

526
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: many cases, but does have people, imperfect people at different

527
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: times in different ways. That a yes, as we all are.

528
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: So they are you know, enforcing or implementing these decisions

529
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: that impact the thing we love. Let me ask you this,

530
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: and this is a very high level loaded question. Um,

531
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: but it's it's like the questions so many people are

532
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: trying to answer for themselves I think right now, Um,

533
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: which is how to be a conservationist or how to

534
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: be an advocate? You know, there's a lot of people

535
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: have gotten Instagram profile these days, and you know it's

536
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 1: asked for your title or whatever these things you are,

537
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: and people will say, I'm a hunter, I'm a conservationist. Um,

538
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: how do you become a conservation he or what are

539
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: the things that you should be doing or can be doing,

540
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: or should be doing a better job of to truly

541
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: be that participant, that citizen participant that impacts these things

542
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: we love so much. There's the generic stuff I know,

543
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: like make your voice heard. I know that you should participate,

544
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: But what's the nuts and bolts, real stuff we can do?

545
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: I tell you, Um, there's a guy and I've never

546
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: personally met him. His name is Justin Schaff, who lives

547
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: out in Glasgow, Montana, and they were working with Black

548
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: Country owners and anglers to remove these old decrepit fences

549
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: throughout all this analoge corridors out there in eastern Montana

550
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: north of Fort pick And I would love I didn't.

551
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: I was working. I've got other stuff. But I think

552
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing clean up days. I see

553
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: it through B A J A lot. But Um, there's

554
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: that gun works um down in Utah and they do

555
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: those range cleanups on public land. I think that's the fundamental.

556
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: That's a that's the eight hundred foot level stuff and

557
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: that And one of the things we had when we

558
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: achieved the greatest successes in conservation in wildlife in American history,

559
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: in world history, is we had all of these strange

560
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: sportsman's clubs all over the United States, and people went

561
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: there and they drank coffee and they discussed. The Valley

562
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: County Sportsman in Montana was this huge engine of change

563
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: for good. Um. We have them all over We still

564
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: have them, but the average agent there is like sixty six,

565
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And I don't know if we'll ever

566
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: have that again, but we do need to join with

567
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: people who have like goals and like passions and remove fence,

568
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: Romuntalo range, clean up the Black Warrior River for trash day. Um.

569
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: And then those people brainstorm, as citizens in the United

570
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: States of America uniquely do, and they say, what do

571
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: you think the next big thing? We should work on,

572
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: is what do you think about the nuts and bolts

573
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: of some of the the influence buttons we can press.

574
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: So we can do on the groundwork, and then the

575
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: next thing we can probably do is try to influence

576
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: decision makers. And so if I'm thinking to myself, what

577
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: are my mediums of influence? While I can show up

578
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: at someone's office, I can write a letter, I can

579
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: place a phone call, I can sign a petition, I

580
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: can post a rant on Facebook. Maybe those are the

581
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: five I can think about the top of my head. Um,

582
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: what of those do you think are most effective? And

583
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: then secondly, how do you make one of those more effective?

584
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: Like there's the you can send an email that's like

585
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: the pre written email that b H already put together

586
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: for you, or you can write a whole custom letter.

587
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: Does that make a difference? What's you're taking on that

588
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: make a difference for sure? But we don't all have

589
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: time to do that. I mean, you gotta new baby

590
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: in the house. Um. And so the other is say

591
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: eight percent as effective, and so that's one hill of

592
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: a lot better than zero. Um. And here's the thing

593
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: I noticed, I have UM and I do not really

594
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: have a political bias. I've never fit in a party,

595
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, But I do think that politicians who do

596
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: not listen, say congressmen who you write the letter and

597
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: nothing happens. Are people all show up at the public

598
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: meeting and the policies could coming out of that office

599
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: don't change that. You know, people that it's time for

600
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: America's just to to vote. That those people out because

601
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: the people you're gonna get in that do listen. They're

602
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: not necessarily like like I know people who do single

603
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: issue voting on on guns in particular, you know, And um,

604
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: I I share the Second Amendment reverence, and I'm a

605
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: Second Amendment absolutist ephen which is uncomfortable around more liberal people.

606
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: But that's a perfect example of where we've voted a

607
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: single issue and let these these politicians go wild all

608
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: around it. I mean, I mean, why does the GOP,

609
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: why does the Republican Party the United States have a

610
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: privatization of public lands paragraph in its platform? I mean,

611
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: how many of us want that, you know? I mean,

612
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: I just I just think that should be there should

613
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: be pressure there until that is removed from the platform.

614
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: And I get emails and and communicate contact all the

615
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: time from people that listen to the podcast and they're

616
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: they're very conservative, and they just go, you know what,

617
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: We've come to the end of this idea that because

618
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: I vote Republican, that I'm gonna put up with water

619
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: pollution and privatization of public lands. I'm done with that.

620
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: What are they gonna do? Yeah, that's the question. So

621
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: what do you do? It's we've got to We've got

622
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: an election coming up here in a matter of months. Uh,

623
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: what do you actually do to change that? It seems daunting. Well,

624
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: Tim Fox is running for governor here in Montana, and

625
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: he came out with a whole I haven't haven't read

626
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: all of yet. He came out with a whole policy

627
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: direct his own conservation, extream access public lands. So that's

628
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: gonna be like, why why don't all of them have that?

629
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: And so if they don't have that, you're gonna say, well, dude,

630
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can vote for you. What

631
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: do you you know? What do you what do you want?

632
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: What do you want? What? What are you trying to

633
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: make of my country? What are you doing up there?

634
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: But if you want to privatize public lands, how else

635
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: what are you representing? Do you think me, do you

636
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: think it comes down to just the critical mass of

637
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: people reaching out to these So, for example, you have

638
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: Republican candidates in Montana that are coming out in support

639
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: of public lands and conservation issues because they realize in

640
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Montana enough people are raising the ruckus that they better.

641
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: But maybe in I don't know, South Carolina or something,

642
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: maybe they're not. And so Republicans they're feel like they

643
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: don't need to worry about that part of things because

644
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: no one's given a hard time. Is it as simple

645
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: as that? I think it's as as simple as that.

646
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things we we've

647
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: done in this country is we've been so we've been

648
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: so successful with the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act,

649
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: the restoration while like Pittman Robertson, you know, Landing War

650
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: Conservation Fund, that a lot of people have been able

651
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: to deprioritize those things in their own like political life,

652
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: for their own own owned, their own daily life, because

653
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere is taking care of that. But in a

654
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: democratic republic, which requires on the participation of the citizenry,

655
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: when you don't take you you think of what else

656
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: has taken care of it? A lot of times the

657
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: bridge collapse, you know, like you go, Wow, I hope

658
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: those engineers know what they're doing. That bridge looks like

659
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of off. Yeah, it comes out that that

660
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: trust again. Yeah, yes, And and I guess if we

661
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: lose the trust that we can make a difference, we're

662
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: in big trouble. And I don't think I don't think

663
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: we're there anywhere near that yet. You wrote, you wrote though,

664
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: uh in February of two thousand nine, you wrote that

665
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: you were worried that to some degree America's hunters and

666
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: anglers had lost their stomach for a fight because of

667
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: some of the things that we're going on. A year ago,

668
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: there was the shutdown, there was the expiration of the

669
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: l wcf UH, all sorts of other things that we're

670
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: aware of going on with deregulation of environmental policies. Still

671
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: some people poking at the public lands privatization issue. Um.

672
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: Now it's a year later, some things have changed, But

673
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: I'm curious do you still feel that way? I tell

674
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: you what's happened was that the fight that we're talking about,

675
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: the fight for public land and wildlife and all it

676
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: has become. Um, we have got to take that out

677
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: of the polarities we we as as a people, all

678
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: of us Democrats, Republicans, the independence, we have to remove

679
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: the goals that we have. What is what is that thing?

680
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: We can we can disagree on methods, but we can

681
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: agree on goals or whatever. So we have to. Uh.

682
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: My friend David Lidford, who's a biologists in Kentucky, UM,

683
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: we did a podcast with him and and he off,

684
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: he has this kind of thing you'll say, says, what

685
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: is it that you want? He's particularly an ornithologist. He's

686
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: a big rowity like Kentucky guy who who loves birds

687
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: and hunting and elk hunting and stuff. And uh I

688
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: met him because he worked at the Elk Foundation a

689
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: long time ago. He's gone back to Kentucky. But he's

690
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: fond of saying what is it that you want? Because

691
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: on these these uh reclaim and coal mines lands where

692
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: he works, they can plant the plants and and make

693
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: sure they live that will support migratory say warblers. Okay,

694
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: and he said, but but people tend to look look

695
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: at it landscape and go I just wanted to be

696
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: driving and healthy. I want everything I want. I want

697
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: a lot of things here and he goes, you gotta

698
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: have goals, and one of the things you could say

699
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: was would you rather have clean water or polluted water?

700
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: Will argue about the methods, but we're going to hold

701
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: onto that goal. And I'll tell you what. If you

702
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: have a politician who doesn't care about whether you get

703
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: polluted water in your will, and there are these politicians

704
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: out there, buddy or not, that guy needs to get

705
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: voted out. I mean that Elk River coal, that cold

706
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: washing spill that they happened in West West Virginia. One

707
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: of the reasons that was so devastating to the water

708
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: intakes for people downstream was that their wells had already

709
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: been contaminated for generations and couldn't be used. Now. Somebody's

710
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: not voting their best interests there, And yeah, I mean,

711
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: I mean, we've got to decide what it is we want.

712
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: And I often asked um people on the far right, especially,

713
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: I say, what would it look like if you had

714
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: your way completely? And you know that most people don't

715
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: really have They don't They can't really, they can't answer

716
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 1: that question. They know what they're against, but they don't

717
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: know what they're for. And I go back to my

718
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: Childhood's like I always knew what I was for. It

719
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: was like to take my kids down to the creek

720
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: and catch brim and shell crackers and see a freaking

721
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: deer or a or a water snake or or a

722
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: queen snake, which were really rare go by, you know,

723
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: mm hmm. It's funny to experience creation. It's funny, though,

724
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: is that so true? But at the same time, if

725
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: you look at in history, if history is an indicator,

726
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: more often it seems like it's only the threat of

727
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: danger or crisis that gets people off their asses and

728
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: doing something, which which isn't always true, but it seems

729
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: like in many cases it is. I think that's evolutionary

730
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: biology for us as a species. You know, like when

731
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: the matt when the when the dire Wolf is not

732
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: outside the circle of fire, people saying and they I

733
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: was thinking about that year zero or whatever that is

734
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: with the Jack Black, Yeah, I haven't seen that long,

735
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: you know. With he's in love with that that whatever

736
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: that gal is dancing. Then he tell her to hit

737
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: her on the head with the club and on he

738
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: hits through and he's like real week, It's he's like out.

739
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: But like when they're not being attacked, people tend to

740
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: go into like like neutral, which is you know normal, Well,

741
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: it's it's funny even it's funny though, are are we though?

742
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: Because I feel for so take this example, uh, Quality

743
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: Deer Management Association is representative of deer hunters across the country.

744
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: It is the most highly participated in type of big

745
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: game hunting. There's more deer hunters out there than anything else. Um.

746
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: But when you compare membership to that organization to something

747
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: like d you Ducks Unlimited um or Pheasants Forever, they

748
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: have a dramatically higher membership of those other species. Now,

749
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: one of the theories is that deer hunters are kind

750
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: of resting on their laurels because we're in the glory

751
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: days of deer. Deer hunting is great. We don't have

752
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: a wolf at the door, while ducks are. Pheasants had

753
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: more recent concerns, and so there's this urgency. Um. So

754
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Remember, um, Howard Vincent told me,

755
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: who's the head up Pheasants forever? He said, the one

756
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: of the Bob st Pierre might said. He said, the

757
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems is like when when up

758
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: when game birds are up and everybody's got the dogs

759
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: and they're having the time of their lives hunting. They

760
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: let their membership laughs. Yeah, and she said, he said,

761
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: it's amazing how you can chart this. Like when times

762
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: are good, everybody's like it's gonna be good forever. And

763
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: then when times they're terrible, they, you know, they're all like,

764
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: we gotta do something. I think I'll join up. Well,

765
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: the same things, same things true of the Second Amendment,

766
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: right you look at that's exactly the same correlation with

767
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: gun sales and administrations and are a membership. I'm sure

768
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: it's tied to are you worried about losing your right

769
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: or not? Yeah? For sure? And we don't. Can't you

770
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 1: all relate dog to that? You know, you're like, you know, like, OK,

771
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: that's one less thing I gotta worry about, you know.

772
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't remember how much these tires I

773
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: put on this, these twelve flight tires I put on

774
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: the Forerunner. After we had a series of flats, I

775
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: was like, who those things are? You know, I don't

776
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: know how much they are? There so much money. I

777
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. I gotta worry about that right now.

778
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: And so I get it. Um. But you know, I

779
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: don't think we have such a good trek record mark Um.

780
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: I mean really up until up until now. And maybe

781
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: it's just because we I'm paying attention. This is my time,

782
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 1: You're paying attention, this is your time, especially you've got

783
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: younger children than I do. But like we have such

784
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: a good track record. Like I was thinking, when this

785
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: meat it's not a meat shortage, but when the COVID

786
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: nineteen got the meat processors and you realize that like

787
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: a quarter of all the meat is processes in these

788
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: five plans, Like that's a big national security food security problem.

789
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 1: Like how come we let all of our local slaughterhouse

790
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: processing facilities go belly up one by one over the

791
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: course of my life. I mean, that wasn't very smart.

792
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: And but every every time I opened up the computer,

793
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: now there's somebody writing about local food security, and there's

794
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: there's I was reading a piece from the Food and

795
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 1: Environment Reporting Network. I was reading one from Civil Eats,

796
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: which is not my fallow there, and it's like they're

797
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: people are buying more seeds, they're they're they're talking about

798
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: local food security. So we're kind we are a problem

799
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: solving a bunch of folks for better or worse. We

800
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: damned up all our rivers. We know, we like we

801
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: we got rid of the biathling in like thirty years

802
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: and none. Then we brought them back like like we're's

803
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: we're the like the best in the world that wrecking

804
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: stuff and then fix them. It's a good way to

805
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: put it. Yeah, Um, we really are, though. I mean,

806
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: you look at Europe and it's just kind of moribund

807
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: compared to here. I mean, I mean it's just like

808
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: like here, it's just like there's just vibrancy. And I

809
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: think part of it is the conflict, and I think

810
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: we're too polarized now, but it's the conflicting visions for

811
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: our country that are like two turbines, you know, those

812
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: magnets that make electricity pushing that's it, yeah, pushing and pulling,

813
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: and and like there's just this like blue fire right

814
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: in the middle of that. Obviously, I'm a kind of

815
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: an uber patriot or whatever. You got the most interesting

816
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: place I've ever been, Well, it's interesting. You gotta that

817
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: fire is either what you harness in it runs the

818
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: turbine or it destroys it and explodes them exactly. It

819
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: blows the roof off the building, kills everybody out there. Yep,

820
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: that's exactly you. How do you see what's going on

821
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: right now with COVID nineteen and all the ripple effects.

822
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: How do you see that impacting the future of our

823
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: conservation battles? Once again, I think we're on a wobbly

824
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: place where, um one, I'm I'm extremely concerned about the

825
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: amount of money that I don't know where it comes from,

826
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: that's flowing out to everybody from from the the poorest

827
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: to the richest. I don't know where all that money

828
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: is coming from. But I do think that we're gonna

829
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: see a consequence in federal land management and the privatization

830
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: movement as a result of this deficit that we're running up. Okay,

831
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: so you're saying, and a couple of years from now,

832
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: the bill is gonna come do and people are gonna

833
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: look to our public lands to pay it probably, and

834
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: they're also going to if we if we let them,

835
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: then we're going to see like people go, well, we

836
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: just can't a forward to do. The equip Environmental Quality

837
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: and Center program, which is a fantastic program, by the way,

838
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: by the by the NRCS to protect and buffer watersheds.

839
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: We just can't afford that anymore. And I'm like going,

840
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: whoa wait a minute, buddy, how much is it gonna

841
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: cost when the Moines is flooded or St. Louis is

842
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: flooded out again? You know? Um, So we're gonna have

843
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: to insist on a more rational environmentally based economics and

844
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: budgets or else the low hanging fruit is gonna be

845
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: everything that we love and that that concerns me, big problem. Yeah,

846
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. Another one of the things, and

847
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Another one of the

848
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: things that I've been wondering about is we have this

849
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: this storm of current that's going on related to the

850
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: pandemic and the pandemic response and the economic impacts, etcetera.

851
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: And it's all consuming. It's it's like a hurricane that's

852
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: all around us, and it's all you can see, it's

853
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: all you can hear. You walk outside and get slapped

854
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: in the face by the rain and the lightning, and

855
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: underneath all that, though other things are still happening, there

856
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 1: are this There's been a slew relative slew of different

857
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 1: policies being put into place or environmental protection is being

858
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: removed or different rules being put in place that are

859
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: impacting our wild places that are very much still flying

860
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: under the radar right now because I can, and I've

861
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: been reading stories how some people are kind of racing

862
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: to get certain things done underneath the cover of COVID darkness.

863
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: I can get away with this stuff while nobody can

864
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: really put much energy towards it. Is that something you're seeing,

865
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: Is that something you're worrying about? Is there any truth

866
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: to that? I think there's some truth to it. I'm

867
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: not worried about it. And here is why the the

868
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: initial private paradigm, the the American people have said that

869
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: they don't trust the federal government. They they got they

870
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: bought into this Ronald Reagan view that says the government

871
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: is not the solution, the government is the problem. What

872
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: are the twelve scariest words in American In in English,

873
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

874
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: We we bought that, okay, in Dick this, we bought

875
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: that in spite of Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt and

876
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: all of the billion millions of bureaucrats who have done

877
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: their jobs and made things good in America. We bought

878
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: that ideal, We bought that narrative. Ronald Reagan was the

879
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: first to articulated um and somehow now we've said, all

880
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: of this deregulation that the Trump administration is doing is

881
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: nothing different than what the Republican Party has been saying

882
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: all of my adult life. They wanted. And so do

883
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 1: I worry about it. I do not, because you get

884
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: what you demand, you get what you say you will

885
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: stand for. And if the states now they say tenth Amendment,

886
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: the state's rights are gonna do it, well, you know

887
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: where I grew up states rights with a rallying cry

888
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: for Jim Crow Law and all that stuff which which

889
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: obviously needed to change, right, But I do think the

890
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: Tenth Amendment is an important thing. My my belief, my

891
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: hope is that the people of the United States will

892
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 1: get get away from this hatred of the federal government

893
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: while they get the mail and drive on the interstate

894
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: highway system and do all the things and enjoy all

895
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: the benefits of having a function in federal government, but

896
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: that they will hold the states more accountable for managing

897
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: the environment, air, you know what I mean? Like that

898
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: this could be a positive thing. While we recognize the

899
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 1: benefits of what we had pre Ronald Reagan. And I'm

900
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: not saying Ronald Reagan was bad or anything, but this

901
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: was just something that came up in the eighties that

902
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: has now achieved kind of a nuclear success amongst American Yeah,

903
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: so here's an interesting example of something that's relevant to

904
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: what you described. How About something who kind of came

905
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: of age of of sorts ideologically at least during that era,

906
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: who's now having an impact and who's sliding under the

907
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: radar in certain ways, which is William Perry Penley, the

908
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: acting director of the BLM, who just like a rule

909
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: that was not put in front of Congress and didn't

910
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: have to be voted on, He's been named an acting

911
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: director of the BLM, but not made the real director

912
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: of the BLM, so he doesn't have to go through

913
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: the exactly, so he doesn't have to go through the confirmation.

914
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: This is obviously a piece of skullduggery that the American

915
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: people are, you know they I just can't believe. There's

916
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: just not enough of us that no know what's an

917
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: issue there, I guess. So we've got a guy who's

918
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: publicly stated he is anti public land that is now

919
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: in charge of the agency that administers I believe the

920
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: largest percentage of our public lands in the country. Um,

921
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: and that still happened, has been going on for a

922
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: year or something like that now. Uh, and again he

923
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: just got re upped and no one's talking about it.

924
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 1: What do you think about that kind of thing? I

925
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: think that that if if I were looking for an

926
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: example of why I did not trust an administration, that

927
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: example would be a photo of William Parker Pendley. Yeah.

928
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you another thing is if if American

929
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: hunters and fishermen and women are going to put up

930
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: with an administration who appoints I would ask your listeners

931
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: to do this. Look up pacifics States Legal Foundation and

932
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: Mountain States Legal Foundation, which is where Pendley came from,

933
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: which is where Gail Norton came from under George Bush

934
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: forty three, and where uh James Watt was an originator

935
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: who was under Reagan, who you know did all that

936
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 1: outlandish stuff on public lands against the public lands. UM.

937
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: Look up Mountain States Legal Foundation, look up a Pacific

938
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: States Legal Foundation, and and just judge for yourself whether

939
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: representatives from those organizations should be in control of American

940
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: public policy. And I'm not saying that those people may

941
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: not perform a valuable service as gadflies and watch dogs

942
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: and law and lawyers in the private sector, But ask

943
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: yourself whether those representatives from those firms should be in

944
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: public policy over with power over things that you believe

945
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: in and that you want. So here's the here's the

946
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: dilemma though. Hell is, someone can be you know, hunter

947
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: Angler out there trying to pay attention to this stuff,

948
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: trying to say what's going on in our government right

949
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 1: now that's good for environment, for hunting and fishing, and

950
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: what's going on that's not so good? And they see

951
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: something like this with Penley, and they go and do

952
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: the research you just told them to do, and they

953
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: see that, Hey, okay, this is this is an issue.

954
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: This is not a good thing. This is an indication

955
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: of people doing something that is is not going to

956
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: help us out in the long run. So that might

957
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: put an X in the column of Hey, these guys

958
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: aren't doing very good when it comes to these things.

959
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: And when I go to the voters box this November,

960
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that. But look on the flip side,

961
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: how about I don't know, a month or two ago

962
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: they came out with the new hunting access increases for

963
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: wildlife refugees and they're increasing access to a whole bunch

964
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: of different pieces of public lands across the country. That

965
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: seems like a pretty good yeah, So how does someone

966
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: make sense of that? Like, Hey, there, here's a really

967
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: good thing they're doing. Well, what did it call slie? Okay,

968
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: So Randy Newburgh has that wonderful saying conservation is not

969
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: convenient and when you do large scale restoration of say

970
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River watersheds, there are winners and losers, is

971
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: no doubt. So so what did it cost them to

972
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: re establish some access? And I'm not saying it's it's

973
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: it's not important to the wildlife refugees versus having William

974
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: Parker Penley in control of of um that interior, right um?

975
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: Like like like what was the convenient thing? And I'm

976
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: not saying it's throw us a bone, because it is

977
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: throwing us a bone and we all know that is.

978
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: But it's a good bone. You don't want to look

979
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: a gift horse in the mouth completely, right, No, But

980
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: you can you can accept that and still say that

981
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: Parker William Parker Penley or that that ridiculous leasing orgy

982
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: that they went on on oil and gas in the

983
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: migration corridors and stuff like that. I mean, yeah, and

984
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: and that the reason that's a problem is one the

985
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: state of Women did not stand up and push back

986
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: against that lease. And even though their fishing game, they

987
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: didn't feel that they had the power to push back.

988
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: That's a problem. Okay. The other problem is those leases

989
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: imply a right to drill, and you can easily use

990
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: those leases as hostage leases in the future and you

991
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: could say, you know, you're gonna have to pay me,

992
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna take the knife of the mona Lisa

993
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: here going to you know. And so those leases should

994
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: have been considered and debated and discussed for a long time.

995
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: It's not analysis paralysis to try to find out what

996
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: that right answer is. And when you see people doing

997
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: fire sales of public assets, people should be paying attention

998
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: and say whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Lord, Nelly, let's

999
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: just let's hold on. And then you say, holy smokes,

1000
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: look at whose conducting this by ourselves? They are an

1001
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: anti public lens activist, So do we really so? Then

1002
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: you you you write your letters, I guess. But in

1003
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: the end you're gonna have to change the paradigm that

1004
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: says that these people are allowed to auction off our assets,

1005
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: or privatize our public lands, or enable other people to

1006
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: profit by polluting our water. That's the paradigm that we

1007
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: haven't gotten there yet. We we we never have gotten there.

1008
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: I think that's so in the COVID nineteen thing, these

1009
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: are the questions that are being asked. What is a

1010
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: healthy environment that will prove that'll that'll make people strong

1011
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: and healthy and resilient in the face of pandemics, local

1012
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: food security, clean water, places to do do disperse, recreation

1013
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: another question that all this has got me asking. When

1014
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: it it's it's right in line with some of the

1015
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: things you describe there. You identify something like a fire sale.

1016
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: You see an issue that hey, this is there's something

1017
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: going on here. We need to do something about it.

1018
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: So there's the wolf at the door or the flip side.

1019
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: We'll see, Hey, here's an opportunity, here's something that was proposed.

1020
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: It's a great idea, it just needs our energy behind it.

1021
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 1: So you've got one of those two kinds of things.

1022
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: And then we as a at home conservationist that wants

1023
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: to make a difference. We now know. Okay, I can

1024
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: call email whatever. My big question is, during this time

1025
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: with the coronavirus consuming so much of the oxygen in

1026
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: the room, are we are we blowing what's the way

1027
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: I'm looking for here? Are wasting our time trying to

1028
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: honk the hornet that stuff right now because there just

1029
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: isn't any oxygen in the room. Like, when's the timing? Right?

1030
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: When do you think that we can start pushing on

1031
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: these things and have the politicians actually be able to

1032
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: pay attention. Um, I'm just worried, like right now it

1033
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: seems like no one can focus on anything else because

1034
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: of the crisis. They can't and and that's true, But

1035
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: but now is the time for people like listening to

1036
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: this podcast to start saying, like, okay, let's let's again Americans.

1037
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: I think as a as a nation, we're greatest problem

1038
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: solver in the world. You know. And there may be

1039
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: some hunter gatherer band somewhere and in the Cala harry

1040
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: or something is better than us, you know, the day

1041
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: to day, but as a nation, we're the best. So

1042
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: what are the things that we need to solve? What

1043
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: are the things that have the cold light has been

1044
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: cast upon them by the COVID nineteen pandemic and by

1045
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: the government's response to it. Okay, I mean one of

1046
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: the things that voy we could we could go the forever,

1047
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: and I know we can't. So one of the things

1048
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: that's very disturbing to me is that we had government

1049
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: directives powers that left the home depot and some of

1050
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: these huge businesses open while local businesses were forced to close.

1051
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: One of the things that really bothered me is that

1052
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: that we have entered into a regulatory state that discourages uh,

1053
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: small farmers and small meat producers from supplying local communities

1054
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: while the larger entities have taken over all the markets

1055
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: with predictable results. By the way, like like important beef

1056
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: from other countries and and paying our guys are people less,

1057
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, um, illegal labor in the in the in

1058
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: the in the process, and plants where people are getting

1059
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: hurt and they're not they don't know about OSHA, and

1060
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: they don't know about the rights they have as Americans.

1061
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the largest entities are grabbing stuff. But and

1062
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: and that's true, and it's terrible. But the thing it's

1063
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: bad for our national security, But in the long term,

1064
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,919
Speaker 1: we weren't noticing that before COVID nineteen and so now

1065
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: is the time to start paying attention and perhaps listing

1066
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: to things that you, as an American citizen, see that

1067
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: obviously a million of us, millions of us could do this,

1068
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: This would be incredibly valuable. Did you use that state

1069
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: park to take your kids out during the pandemic? And

1070
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: where would you have gone if you hadn't had it?

1071
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: And wasn't it paid for by lunder Water Conservation Fund? Yes?

1072
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: It was, you know, did you take them down to

1073
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: go fishing? Like I was catfishing my mind out this spring?

1074
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: Like I wanted fish. I wanted to get a bunch

1075
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: of fish. I felt food insecure. I had six deer

1076
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: in the freezer, but didn't get an elk. I called

1077
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: a local ranchard about getting a cow. It was available.

1078
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: I relaxed on that. You know, they probably were a

1079
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: lot of people though, turning to some of these outdoor resources,

1080
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: whether it's food security or recreation, and it has shine

1081
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: a light on some of these things for some people

1082
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: that maybe wouldn't have normally paid attention as much. I

1083
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: saw everywhere I just like I in fact, I mean,

1084
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: there was days where I was I was really kind

1085
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: of ecstatic because of all the things I was seeing,

1086
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: people questioning and pointing out holy smokes, Like God, we

1087
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: got that. I mean everywhere I went, and by the way,

1088
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 1: we I know, there's a lot down in quarantine all

1089
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: but there's like enormous numbers of people around where I

1090
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: live enjoying their public lands. They were making me nervous.

1091
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: But it was one of those times when I really

1092
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: wished I lived closer to public lands. I always wish

1093
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: and appreciate it, but this is one of those times.

1094
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: It was visceral. Where you know, we weren't supposed to

1095
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: travel long distances. We weren't such a cross state, your lines,

1096
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: weren't do all these different things. And I'm stuck in

1097
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: a place right now where there's not any public land.

1098
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: We couldn't go hiking, there wasn't good fishing, uh you know,

1099
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't go find black bears or anything like that.

1100
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: I was suck wishing I lived where you live. Hell

1101
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: and um much of there a lot of other people

1102
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: that are in big cities or in similar circumstances wishing man.

1103
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something to be said about some of these

1104
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: places and some of these resources that we have. Uh.

1105
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: I think it's very possible that that this represents somewhat

1106
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: of a of a a seismic weather change in American

1107
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: consciousness about that very thing right there, and whether that

1108
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: means that land in Missouri is going to be more

1109
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: expensive as people like rush out to try to become

1110
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: food secure, you know, which would I mean, I don't,

1111
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what's positive and that rural America has

1112
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: been in freefall for the last like thirty years. You know,

1113
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: maybe we could use a resurgence of people moving to

1114
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: rural America. Yeah, I wonder and I hope that if

1115
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 1: if this thing keeps tracking in a hopefully better direction,

1116
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: and we're able to get our politicians to have their

1117
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 1: enter g dispersed a little bit differently, I'm hoping that

1118
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: this can be an opportunity to get something like the

1119
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: Great American Outdoors Act done, because that's such a clear there.

1120
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,439
Speaker 1: There seems to be such a clear connection between Hey,

1121
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: you appreciated that state park, your city park was that

1122
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: one place you could go and and enjoy yourself safely,

1123
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: um and or the national parks that are reopening now

1124
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: that's somewhere you can safely go, hopefully safely go. And

1125
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: I hope that we can have the energy and the

1126
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: tension to push something like that through. UM. So there's

1127
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: that opportunity. But then I worry about the thing you

1128
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, which is the bills you out of. How

1129
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: do you pay the bills after we just printed all

1130
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: this money. Here's here's the thing is those things are

1131
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: not gonna be negotiable. You know, you're not gonna be

1132
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: able to suck out the Land and Water Conservation Fund.

1133
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: You're not. These things are not negotiable. These are It's

1134
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a family budget, right. You're when

1135
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay for your house, You're gonna pay that mortgage,

1136
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: and you're gonna pay that water bill because you need water.

1137
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: Booze bills are not negotiable. And that the idea somehow

1138
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 1: that our freedom to roam on public lands or to

1139
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: have a state park to take your kids, or to

1140
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 1: swim in the creek or catch fish for dinner, the

1141
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: ideas that both are the low hanging fruit that people

1142
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: can just slap with a freaking stick whenever they want.

1143
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: That's what we've gotta change. These are inalienable natural rights

1144
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: of the American people not to have somebody poison my

1145
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: will because they don't want to pay the haul off

1146
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: that Gallandroma used tall you wing right, that's not negotiable, Unfortunately,

1147
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: I'll just say it out of mind for a lot

1148
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: of people, though it is, and by the time it

1149
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: comes into sight, it's it's awful hard to get back.

1150
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a big I would uh, I mean,

1151
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: that's one that I Here's here's a I've been throwing

1152
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 1: this to every body lately. But this is Frederick Douglas,

1153
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: and I just read his John biography, which is John

1154
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: talking Frederick Douglas Turner Frontier thesis. Yeah, yeah, No. Frederick

1155
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: Douglas the slave. He was the famous abolitionist, and he

1156
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: was actually a slave for all those years and he

1157
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: bought his bought his way out and then became like

1158
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: the firebrand, you know. But he was also a very complicated,

1159
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: incredibly complicated person who I have come to see as

1160
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: a person who understands more about power, oppression, natural rights

1161
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: and stuff than than anybody that I've ever read about.

1162
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: And this is what Frederick Douglas, who had been an

1163
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: actual slave, said, power conceived nothing without demand. It never

1164
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 1: has and it never will. You show me the exact

1165
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person,

1166
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: and I will show you the exact Oh Lord, Eedmercy,

1167
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: I've got it. I've got the wrong quote. But he said,

1168
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: you show me the amount of wrong and injustice that

1169
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: they will endure, and I will show you the amount

1170
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: that will be opposed upon them. So if you think

1171
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,919
Speaker 1: public lands are negotiable because other things are more important

1172
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: to you, you should ask what those other things are?

1173
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? It does? It does? How do

1174
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,759
Speaker 1: you How do you implement that into your daily life?

1175
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: How does that become a part of what we hunters

1176
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: and anglers do today? Though? The first thing is to

1177
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: make time to enjoy all that stuff, So you know

1178
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Remember Edward Abbey said, be a

1179
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 1: half hearted fanatic. Yes, and if you do that, you'll

1180
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: outlive the bastards. Yeah. And in this case, though, the

1181
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: bastards may win unless you're willing to go to the

1182
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: map for those things that that you're out there enjoying.

1183
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: What what? What do you think about some of these

1184
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: other ideas that have been floated recently? Um, to to

1185
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of pair these two things together so derive some

1186
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 1: kind of public land or conservation benefit while also addressing

1187
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: some of the pandemic issues. For example, I've seen some

1188
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 1: people proposing, you know, trying to lump a bunch of

1189
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: public land and recreation related infrastructure work into a future

1190
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: stimulus bill or another idea of being what about bringing

1191
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: the conservation coreback and bringing some of these people that

1192
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: don't have jobs right now back to work in some

1193
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: of these places. Yeah, any thoughts on that is that

1194
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: something like an incredible idea. And I think that, Um

1195
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: I thought for a long time I didn't serve in

1196
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: the army or the military, although I mean that was

1197
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: always one of my plans and I never did. I

1198
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: do think that national service of some sort is a

1199
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: good idea in the future. I think we've become too

1200
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: abstracted from our our system of governance, you know, not

1201
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: just civics class, but like like actual part it's a

1202
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: patient as a citizen, and so I'd love to see

1203
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: something like a c C C. You know, my grandfather

1204
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: was a super conservative guy in the depression. Um he'd

1205
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: been in World War One and gotten mustard gas and

1206
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: all and stuff. And he hated like the w p

1207
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: A that we poke around, you know, and all that stuff.

1208
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 1: But in in long term, you know, those things were

1209
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: good ideas. And I understand that, like like some people

1210
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: are gonna object to that and hate them because their

1211
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: government program or whatever. But in the long term they

1212
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: proved out a lot of things did, like the Taylor

1213
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: Grayson Act, you know, to address over graysing on the

1214
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: public ranges in America. Those things proved out no matter

1215
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: how many naysayers there were at the time. So I

1216
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: think those things are incredible. I guess we're gonna be

1217
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: able to fund them, like if we're gonna be giving

1218
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: people money anyway, you know. I just I imagine this,

1219
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: this infrastructure project, especially as addressed bloods in America, which

1220
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: are increasingly disastrous to our budget, our economy because the

1221
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: federal flood insurance, and to our water quality and to

1222
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: our fisheries. I can imagine these enormous restoration projects that

1223
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: put people to work doing something incredibly positive. And we

1224
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: balance that out with the private the private land owners,

1225
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: um what they want to right because a lot of

1226
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: these tributaries around private land, and I could just imagine

1227
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: I would I can imagine in America that works better

1228
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: than it ever has because of the knowledge we have

1229
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: right now, and you could just you could step forward

1230
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: into a future that we all want to live in.

1231
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,799
Speaker 1: And it's not that it's not that complicated. We already

1232
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 1: know how to do it. We just not sure how

1233
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: to get there. When this whole thing clears up, when

1234
01:13:55,560 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: hopefully whatever normal is, whatever the new meals I guess

1235
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: is now. Whenever that is, we're able to get back

1236
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: at it. And hunters and anglers we're out there doing

1237
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: our things. If I gave you a magic wand hell,

1238
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 1: and I said that you could have two wishes that

1239
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,919
Speaker 1: you could make, two things that we will do differently,

1240
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,760
Speaker 1: or two actions we will take, or you've got these

1241
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: two wishes, and hunters and anglers to help address some

1242
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about today, to help us

1243
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 1: become better conservations for the future, to make that new,

1244
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: brighter future reality. What are those two things you're going

1245
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: to ask for? Holy smokes, they're gonna be boring. One

1246
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: is is reform of federal flood insurance and a emphasis

1247
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 1: owned restoring functioning watersheds across America, both for economic and

1248
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 1: other reasons. And I wrote a piece at Field and

1249
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: Stream called let It Flood. How we can create a fish.

1250
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 1: You can clean the waters and create a honey and

1251
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: fishing save the economy, clean the waters to great a

1252
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing paradise. Now with like or something. But

1253
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,680
Speaker 1: during the research of that, I became convinced that this

1254
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: is one of the main things. So it would be

1255
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: reform of federal flood insurance and an emphasis on the

1256
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 1: restoration of of America's water ships. And the next one

1257
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: is that we as a people would agree that the

1258
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: American public land six d forty million acres. And that

1259
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean all of them. We're gonna have to solve

1260
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: the checkerboard and all that stuff, but we are. We

1261
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: have we hold this as an asset in common, and

1262
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: we're going to use this asset to the priority to

1263
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 1: prioritize this asset to build ecological and social resilience into

1264
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:53,759
Speaker 1: a future that we can't imagine. And those two things

1265
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: right there will not solve all our problems by any means,

1266
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 1: but they'll solve one sector of them. And in that

1267
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: ecological resilience building and access and and c C C

1268
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: operations and tree planting and and eerusion control. We're gonna

1269
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: see an economic boom in rural jobs and man disguised

1270
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: the limit on the positive here, I'm gonna give you

1271
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: one more, one more wish because I like where your

1272
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 1: heads at hell and I want to give you more

1273
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: opportunities for good and give you. Give you one more.

1274
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: And that's for me or for someone listening to Bob, Joe, Jill,

1275
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: whoever is listening. You're gonna give us one to do

1276
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: item one thing you want us to do when we

1277
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: get off this podcast. Okay, what are we doing? We

1278
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: are going first thing I would say, we're gonna go

1279
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: fishing or hunting women. Good idea, but I'll throw you

1280
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 1: a thousand and put her. We're gonna change a political

1281
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 1: paradigm in the United States that says that our environment

1282
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: are the health of our children, and our freedom to rome, hunt, fish,

1283
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: enjoy the American landscape is not negotiable by any political party.

1284
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: And and and if you believe that these things are

1285
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 1: not important, you belong out of public service and back

1286
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 1: at Mountain States Legal, or at your roof in business

1287
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: or trade real estate in Dallas or whatever. If you

1288
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: believe those things are negotiable, and that you somehow can

1289
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: deprive to ortize those things. You're not gonna be elected office.

1290
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 1: And it's on us to make sure that our politicians

1291
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: and are accountable for that. Huh, they're accountable for it,

1292
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: and that they know we wanted. There's a great one

1293
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: of the politicians said. It was somebody in Montana. I

1294
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 1: can't remember who it was. They said, WHOA, this is

1295
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 1: a great idea. Now make me do it. Yeah, that's

1296
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: it right there. Make him do it, yeah, because he

1297
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: you know, he's got to listen to everybody, and there's

1298
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: other people saying things that aren't good ideas. But if

1299
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: they say I'm louder and they say I'm more often,

1300
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: then he gets it. There's a let me throw your

1301
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: lun last off Frederick Douglas It. If there is no struggle,

1302
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom

1303
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 1: and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without

1304
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:36,799
Speaker 1: plowing up the ground. They won't rain without thunder and lightning.

1305
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: They want the ocean without the awful roar of its

1306
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:45,720
Speaker 1: many waters. MHM. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It

1307
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,040
Speaker 1: never did and it never will find out just what

1308
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: any people will quietly submit to and you have found

1309
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 1: out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will

1310
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: be opposed upon them. And these will continue till they

1311
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.

1312
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 1: The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of

1313
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: those whom they oppressed. That good stuff right there, it is,

1314
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 1: it's called It's eighty seven. Frederick douglas Is speech called it.

1315
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: There is no struggle, there is no progress. Well, well,

1316
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 1: I think that's that's that's appropriate, appropriate marching orders for

1317
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: us to for us to leave on and know that

1318
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 1: we uh, we cannot allow ourselves to be oppressed in

1319
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 1: our natural world and our wildlife and wild places. If

1320
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:37,639
Speaker 1: we want those things protected, if we want our public

1321
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: lands to remain available and healthy for ourselves, our kids,

1322
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 1: our grandkids, it's on us. And we're not going to

1323
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: stand for those things to be to be ignored or

1324
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: they're not negotiable, no negotiable. I like it. Well, I

1325
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: think what I'm gonna do then, hell with that set

1326
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 1: of orders is I'm going to just place a phone call,

1327
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: leave a voicemail with my senators saying us that just saying, hey,

1328
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 1: you know what this isn't you can't have either, or

1329
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: you can't be good on this thing and not so

1330
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:08,600
Speaker 1: good on the other. I need you to, uh to

1331
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 1: support this stuff. And if if a whole lot of

1332
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 1: people did that, we'll find somebody that will. I mean,

1333
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: Florida is a great, great example, you know, like like

1334
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: they're they're due. They have a disaster in the Edbardlades

1335
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: have a disaster south alake Okee Chobi. It's it's a

1336
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: huge mess and everybody's conflicting and throwing rocks and stuff

1337
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 1: like that, but they are actually working and it's not

1338
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 1: a political thing. It used to be, but now it's

1339
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: like you said, it's insight right, it's not out of

1340
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:42,959
Speaker 1: sight out of mind, it's insight. Well thanks a lot, man, Hey,

1341
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: I I really appreciate you taking the time and do this.

1342
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 1: This has been fun. You are always someone I can

1343
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: turn to for inspiration and insight. And uh, I cannot

1344
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: wait to see this book that you're working on. I

1345
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 1: can't wait to read it. It's it's gonna be awesome,

1346
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 1: I know it. Um. I just wish it was here sooner.

1347
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: I want to read it right now. I wish you

1348
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 1: were done already. I'm sure you probably too yeah, as

1349
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 1: a person who's written a great public lands book, I

1350
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: can tell you for sure me to anybody, Oh yeah,

1351
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: And I know you must have felt like that at

1352
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,559
Speaker 1: some point, Oh for sure. Every every day I was

1353
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 1: just wondering, when is this thing going to be done? Well,

1354
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 1: i'd be able to finish it. Can I do this?

1355
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: But I'm certain you won't get it though, man. And

1356
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: it's also it's a great book. And I've I've handed

1357
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 1: it out to anybody who would who I knew would

1358
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 1: needed it. I appreciate you doing a lot of people

1359
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: who had to read it anyway because I've put it on.

1360
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing that. And and hell, if people

1361
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 1: want to follow along with what you've got going on,

1362
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 1: or read your work or on a stay tuned to

1363
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: when your book does come out, how can they do that?

1364
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: How can they see what's going on right now? I'm

1365
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 1: I've got my website, which is how Hearing dot com um,

1366
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 1: and I've got the b H a podcast which I

1367
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 1: hope they'll that people are listening to. And I am

1368
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: told that once I buy a smartphone that I can

1369
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: have this Instagram account that I'm gonna use as I

1370
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 1: travel around the country working on the book, but I

1371
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,600
Speaker 1: don't have that yet, So the way to follow it

1372
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: now is either a lot of stuff is archived on

1373
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: the website or just through the podcast. I give sort

1374
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: of some sometimes I say what we're doing, Um, I

1375
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 1: have you know, I'm I'm I'm not a luddike by

1376
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: at all at all, but um, I'm really behind because

1377
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 1: I have such a short attention span and the fishing

1378
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 1: and hunting it takes over my life at times, really,

1379
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 1: perhaps in an unhealthy way, like I'm gone. Well, I

1380
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,759
Speaker 1: think you'll you'll die happier man, because of that than otherwise.

1381
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: Maybe anyway could be could be worse things. Hell, yeah, alright,

1382
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: hey man can say yes when this is all flying out, hey,

1383
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 1: I will take you up on that. I love love

1384
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,680
Speaker 1: that part of the States. So I'll see you in

1385
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: Wyoming maybe too later in the summer. I agree. Sounds good.

1386
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 1: Hell cool man. Thank you Mark, And that is it

1387
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: for us today. Thanks for tuning in. Appreciate you being

1388
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 1: a part of this. Appreciate you listen to what we

1389
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: had to say as we kind of bounced all over

1390
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: the place. And I don't know, this is kind of

1391
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 1: one of those conversations where I was trying to wrestle

1392
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 1: with questions I've had myself and try to get Hell

1393
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: to help me think through it all. So hopefully that

1394
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: translates into something that is helpful to you too. So

1395
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:30,560
Speaker 1: that said, thank you again, Be safe, be well, and

1396
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: until next time, stay wired to Hunt.