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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be

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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: On Monday, September twenty seventh, two thousand and four, eighteen

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Speaker 2: year old Britney Phillips, a student at Tulsa Community College,

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Speaker 2: went to her evening chemistry class with her friend Lydia.

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Speaker 2: As we said last week, and Britney car pulled together.

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Speaker 2: Lydia was driving, and it was just an ordinary night.

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Speaker 2: They were happily chatting about Britney's nineteenth birthday, which was

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Speaker 2: coming up in a few days, and their plans to

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Speaker 2: hang out that weekend.

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Speaker 3: After the test was over.

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Speaker 2: They got out of class a little bit early and

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Speaker 2: rode together back to Lydia's apartment. They arrived there at

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Speaker 2: around eight pm, and Britney got into her car and

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Speaker 2: said goodbye. She lived a short car ride away in

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Speaker 2: an apartment complex near sixty fifth Street and Mingo Road.

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Speaker 2: That was the last time that Lydia ever saw her

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Speaker 2: friend alive. After Britney didn't show up for the next class,

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Speaker 2: Lydia went into Britney's apartment and found the door unlocked,

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Speaker 2: but after poking her head in, she told us that

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Speaker 2: she heard Britney's cap me outing, got a creepy feeling

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Speaker 2: and backed out. Then Lydia called her dad. After that,

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Speaker 2: she called the authorities and asked for a welfare check

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Speaker 2: on her friend. Investigators got there shortly after ten pm

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Speaker 2: on September thirtieth, and they found Britney's body. Clothing was

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Speaker 2: found scattered all around her in a haphazard way, and

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Speaker 2: the balcony doors to her second floor apartment were open.

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Speaker 2: Britney was found lying next to her bed, and investigators

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Speaker 2: believed she had been dead for at least a couple

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Speaker 2: of days. News reports said that Britney had been raped

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Speaker 2: and strangled, but last week we saw the medical examiner's report,

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Speaker 2: and in that report there was no definitive evidence of

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Speaker 2: sexual assault. What happened to Britney Phillips after she went

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Speaker 2: up to her dark apartment that night? Was she actually

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Speaker 2: sexually assaulted? What's the status of the DNA that was

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Speaker 2: found under her fingernails? And could her killer already be

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Speaker 2: behind bars or still be out somewhere possibly looking for

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Speaker 2: more victims. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years

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Speaker 2: of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned

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Speaker 2: that there's no such thing as a small town where

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Speaker 2: murdered never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from

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Speaker 2: people all around the country asking for help with an

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Speaker 2: unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight

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Speaker 2: seven four four six one four or five. That's six

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Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six one four five, or

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Speaker 2: you can send us a message on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: At Helen gonepod.

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Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. When we talked to

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Speaker 2: Lydia last week, she told us that Brittany had recently

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Speaker 2: started seeing someone. There were rumors that Brittany may have

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Speaker 2: had a crush on someone in her building. Britney's mother,

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Speaker 2: Maggie Ingman, said she didn't believe that was true, and

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Speaker 2: Lydia clarified Britney's new boyfriend did not live in her building.

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Speaker 2: Lydia told us that after she called for the welfare check,

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Speaker 2: she called the restaurant where Britney's boyfriend worked. He came

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Speaker 2: to meet her at Britney's apartment during the time when

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Speaker 2: authorities were doing the welfare check. As paramedics and investigators

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Speaker 2: entered Britney's apartment, we would love to talk to Britney's boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: Lydia remembers talking to him, but unfortunately does not remember

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Speaker 2: his name. She also doesn't remember where he worked, just

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Speaker 2: that it was a coffee shop or restaurant that began

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Speaker 2: with the letter B and had at least two locations

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Speaker 2: in Tulsa at that time. She remembered him being very

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Speaker 2: concerned during the welfare check and cooperative with police. I

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Speaker 2: want to be very clear, we do not suspect that

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Speaker 2: Britney's boyfriend had anything to do with Britney's murder. But

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot we don't know about Britney's last

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Speaker 2: few weeks, he might have important information, maybe information he.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't even know he has.

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Speaker 2: So if you are out there, please reach out, or

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Speaker 2: if you know this person, please send him our way.

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Speaker 2: The next thing I wanted to try and shed some

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Speaker 2: light on if we can, is the timeline. Police believe

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Speaker 2: that when they found her body, Brittany had been dead

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Speaker 2: for at least a couple of days. They believe she

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Speaker 2: was killed sometime between the night of the twenty seventh,

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Speaker 2: after she got home from her chemistry class in the

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Speaker 2: morning of the twenty eighth. Other evidence also points to that.

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Speaker 2: Last week we talked about the medical examiner's report. It

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Speaker 2: stated lividity was fixed and blanched, which normally occurs around

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Speaker 2: eight to twelve hours after death, and rigor mortis was absent,

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Speaker 2: which normally only happened starting around twenty four hours after death. Also,

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Speaker 2: no one saw or heard from Brittany at all between

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Speaker 2: the night of the twenty seventh and the time her

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Speaker 2: body was found. Brittany's body was naked from the waist down.

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Speaker 2: She was wearing a white shirt with loral print. The

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Speaker 2: same shirt that Lydia had seen her wearing when she

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Speaker 2: last saw her, and Brittany had a dried used hampon

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Speaker 2: next to her body. Now, the fact that Brittany was

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Speaker 2: wearing the same top that Lydia last saw her in

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Speaker 2: on September twenty seventh isn't conclusive, but it does, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, point to Brittany being killed shortly.

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Speaker 3: After she got home. But then there was the stamp.

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Speaker 2: Last week, Maggie told us that Brittany's father contacted her

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. He showed her a card that

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Speaker 2: Brittany had forwarded to him to mail to her grandfather

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Speaker 2: for his birthday, and the postmark on that stamp was

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Speaker 2: September twenty ninth, two thousand and four. Now, Maggie considered

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Speaker 2: the possibility maybe Brittany dropped the letter into a mailbox

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Speaker 2: before her class, and that the letter could have sat

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Speaker 2: in the back of the mailbox for a couple days.

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Speaker 2: But later she said she had discovered that the stamp

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Speaker 2: was printed either from a post office or from a

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Speaker 2: kiosk on September twenty ninth.

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Speaker 3: The stamp was a mystery.

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Speaker 2: Because if Brittany had printed the stamp and mailed the

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Speaker 2: letter on the twenty ninth. That would mean that the

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Speaker 2: police's entire timeline could be off by at least twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours, which would mean, presumably that police would have to.

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Speaker 3: Talk to everyone again.

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Speaker 2: Could there be another explanation for the posthumous postmark. One

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Speaker 2: of the big things that we revealed last week was

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Speaker 2: that Britney's apartment was much easier to access than had

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Speaker 2: been initially reported. Maggie told us she believed that the

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Speaker 2: killer could have been waiting in her apartment when she

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Speaker 2: got home. Britney's killer could have accessed her apartment in

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Speaker 2: multiple ways, through the building shared attic, from Britney's second

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Speaker 2: floor balcony that was open, or through Britney's front door,

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Speaker 2: which was unlocked when Lydia went into check on her.

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Speaker 2: Lydia also mentioned that Britney's apartment was in the back

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Speaker 2: of the complex, so it would have been a place

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Speaker 2: where someone could have gotten into more easily without being seen.

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Speaker 3: We looked through a ton of old.

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Speaker 2: Cases to find out if there were any similar attacks

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Speaker 2: to Britney's one where the killer gott into someone's apartment

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Speaker 2: to rob or sexually assault them.

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Speaker 3: It turned out there were a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of attacks in Tulsa during that time, including several high

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Speaker 2: profile cases, or the killers were not caught for a

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Speaker 2: long time. In October of two thousand and five, news

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Speaker 2: headlines in Tulsa stated that a serial rapist was terrorizing

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Speaker 2: the town and he was very active between two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four and two thousand and five, the same time

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Speaker 2: period when Brittany was murdered. This assailant hadn't killed anyone,

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Speaker 2: at least not anyone that police knew of, but NBC

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Speaker 2: News reported the man had been breaking into holmes for

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Speaker 2: two years and raping young women and girls. There were

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Speaker 2: seven victims that authorities knew about at that time, but

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Speaker 2: they estimated there could be more. His youngest victim was

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Speaker 2: only two years old. The rapist mo was breaking into

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Speaker 2: homes that were unlocked. The Tulsa Police Chief day Ben

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Speaker 2: told news outlets that the rapist had gotten into the

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Speaker 2: two years old home by climbing in through an unlocked

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Speaker 2: bedroom window, all while her mother slept in the next room.

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Speaker 2: Last week, we talked to Britney's friend, Lydia. She told

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Speaker 2: us that over the years she has spoken to detectives

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Speaker 2: multiple times. She has tried to the best of her

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Speaker 2: ability to help figure out what happened to her friend.

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Speaker 2: She said she does remember hearing rumors about a serial

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Speaker 2: rapist in Tulsa back around the time when Britney was murdered.

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Speaker 4: I've talked to detectives throughout the years, and I've booked

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Speaker 4: the pictures and I never really noticed anybody or anything.

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Speaker 4: And for some reason, I remember hearing that at the

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Speaker 4: time there might have been a serial rapist in the area.

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Speaker 4: That it's been a long time agoing out remember ifoun

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Speaker 4: was ever true.

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Speaker 2: Police did find a lead on at least one Tulsa rapist.

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Speaker 2: In that NBC interview, police confirmed that the Tulsa rapist

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Speaker 2: DNA matched victims from crime scenes from February of two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four and May of two thousand and four. Police

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Speaker 2: described the man as a white male with brown hair,

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Speaker 2: approximate age early twenties to early thirties, with a stocky

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Speaker 2: build five foot seven inches to six feet tall, and

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Speaker 2: in February of two thousand and six, Tulsa police arrested

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Speaker 2: a suspect.

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Speaker 3: His name was Gary Graham.

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Speaker 2: Through DNA technology, they were eventually able to link him

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Speaker 2: to twelve different attacks, and he was hit with over

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Speaker 2: forty felony charges, including first degree rate rate by instrumentation,

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Speaker 2: attempted rate, lewd molestation, kidnapping, forcible sodomy, sexual battery, burglary,

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Speaker 2: and possession of child porn. Gary Graham pleaded no contest

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Speaker 2: to thirteen of the charges and the rest were dismissed.

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Speaker 2: In return, he got two life sentences to run consecutively,

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Speaker 2: plus another one hundred and eighty years in prison. After

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Speaker 2: his sentencing, one of his victims, Catherine Hall, talked about

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Speaker 2: how when she was fifteen years old, she woke up

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Speaker 2: to find Gary in her room. He put a knife

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Speaker 2: to her throat and told her that if she wasn't quiet,

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Speaker 2: he would kill her, and then he sexually assaulted her.

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Speaker 2: There were some similarities between Gary Graham's crimes and Britney's attack,

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Speaker 2: but there were also some differences. For one thing, the

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Speaker 2: Tulsa rapist seemed to choose the path of least resistance.

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Speaker 2: He did not beat his victims. Instead, he either selected

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Speaker 2: victims who were young enough to subdue, or used a

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Speaker 2: knife or other weapon to keep them quiet too terrified

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Speaker 2: to move. Brittany was also not beaten. In fact, there

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Speaker 2: were basically no defensive wounds on her body. So it's

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Speaker 2: possible that her killer did use a weapon and attempted

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Speaker 2: to sexually assault her, and then maybe something made him stop.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it was the fact that she was having her period,

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Speaker 2: or maybe he heard a noise, maybe there was some

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Speaker 2: other sort of interruption.

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Speaker 3: We just don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's also possible, by the way, that she was sexually assaulted,

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Speaker 2: so we can't be sure. Gary Graham talked to a

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Speaker 2: reporter from News on six, and in that interview, he

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Speaker 2: completely denied any involvement in the serial rape cases. He

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Speaker 2: told the reporter quote, I didn't do this. I don't

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Speaker 2: look like that guy. I wouldn't do this. I have

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Speaker 2: two kids of my own. I would kill somebody if

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Speaker 2: they touched either of my kids.

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Speaker 3: End quote.

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Speaker 2: Gary insisted that the whole thing was a set up

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Speaker 2: by the police and that he was being framed. He

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Speaker 2: even mentioned true crime shows to News on six, saying, quote,

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Speaker 2: how do you take a swab Monday night and get

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Speaker 2: it back Wednesday?

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Speaker 3: That's impossible.

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Speaker 2: I watched Discovery Channel in Court TV, and those big

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Speaker 2: labs in California don't get it back that fast end quote.

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Speaker 2: Gary was convicted of the assaults, and in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven he was sentenced to two consecutive life terms

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Speaker 2: in prison plus one hundred and eighty years. That's where

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Speaker 2: he remains to this day. He was never officially linked

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Speaker 2: Totney's case. We found another case that was similar to Britney's.

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Speaker 2: This one occurred years later in twenty seventeen, but some

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Speaker 2: of the circumstances were similar to what happened with Britney. Also,

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Speaker 2: this case we're going to talk about in my opinion

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Speaker 2: highlights the problems in Oklahoma with DNA testing delays, which

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Speaker 2: was also an issue for Britney's case. In twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: a nineteen year old named Kelsey Tenant was killed when

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Speaker 2: a man brutally attacked her in her apartment. Kelsey lived

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Speaker 2: near sixty fifth Street in Mingo, right across the street

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Speaker 2: from Britney Phillips apartment complex. We've spoken to Kelsey's mother

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Speaker 2: and she told us that on the day she was murdered,

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Speaker 2: Kelsey had been at work at Metro Appliances and more.

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Speaker 2: She got a break around three pm and went home

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Speaker 2: to watch some reruns of Friends, but when she got

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Speaker 2: inside her apartment. Police believe someone was waiting for her.

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Speaker 2: Her attacker was in the process of robbing her apartment.

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Speaker 2: Kelsey's mother, Michelle, said that her killer was throwing things

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Speaker 2: into a trash bag. After Kelsey walked in and interrupted

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Speaker 2: the burglary, he viciously turned on her.

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Speaker 3: He beat and strangled her.

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Speaker 2: Kelsey's mother said that Kelsey's killer used a lamp chord

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Speaker 2: to strangle her. Then as she lay there dying, he

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Speaker 2: continued gathering up her stuff and throwing it into the

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Speaker 2: trash bag.

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Speaker 5: There were just several items in a trash bag and

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Speaker 5: a shoe that had blood.

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Speaker 6: On it that she had been wearing in the little lamp.

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Speaker 5: He used the cord for it. The strangler, so it

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Speaker 5: was in the bag, and just random items like that

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Speaker 5: that had any kind of evidence that there had been

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Speaker 5: a struggle.

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Speaker 6: He had it in a trash.

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Speaker 5: Bag and he had actually tossed it out onto the patio.

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Speaker 2: At some point, Kelsey's boyfriend, Riley Allen, got worried because

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Speaker 2: she wasn't answering his calls, so he went to her

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Speaker 2: apartment to check on her and walked into a horrific scene.

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Speaker 2: Kelsey was laying motionless on the floor and the killer

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Speaker 2: was still inside the apartment. The killer then turned on

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Speaker 2: and attacked Riley and strangled him as well, this time

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Speaker 2: with his hands. Riley passed out and the killer fled

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Speaker 2: the scene. Riley recovered soon after and called for help.

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Speaker 2: He and Kelsey were both rushed to the hospital. Riley

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Speaker 2: miraculously ended up with only minor injuries, but Kelsey was

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Speaker 2: another story. By the time she got to the er,

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Speaker 2: she was already in critical condition. She was brain dead,

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Speaker 2: and she was pronounced officially dead a few hours later.

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Speaker 2: Riley helped police identify the killer, and it turned out

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Speaker 2: that even though this man was a stranger to Kelsey,

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Speaker 2: he was not a stranger to her neighbors at the

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Speaker 2: apartment complex. His name is Gregory Eperson. He was homeless

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Speaker 2: at the time and was staying with a friend who

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Speaker 2: lived in the apartment right next door to Kelsey's. Later,

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Speaker 2: Kelsey's mother said police had discovered that Kelsey's attacker had

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Speaker 2: been friends with that neighbor, and that this friend had

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Speaker 2: been allowing him to crash at her apartment. Kelsey's mom, Michelle,

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Speaker 2: also told us Kelsey had seen Gregory around the apartment

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Speaker 2: complex and that he gave her the creeps.

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Speaker 6: So the neighbor's store at Kelsey's store were both in

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Speaker 6: an alcove together. Now the apartment complex security cameras did

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Speaker 6: not have security on her particular building.

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Speaker 5: That he was seen.

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Speaker 6: Going around checking doors throughout the complex, and Kelsey had

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00:18:22,161 --> 00:18:25,241
Speaker 6: crossed house with him a few times because he did

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Speaker 6: frequent that apartment and told a friend that.

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Speaker 3: He gave her the creeps, Michelle said.

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Speaker 2: The neighbor testified in court that she and Kelsey shared

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Speaker 2: an air conditioning unit, and Michelle also told us Kelsey

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Speaker 2: had been having issues with her air conditioning unit. Michelle

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00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 2: said that one possibility that police had considered was that

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00:18:47,041 --> 00:18:50,521
Speaker 2: perhaps Gregory could have posed as a maintenance man and

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00:18:50,641 --> 00:18:53,281
Speaker 2: use that as an excuse to try and access apartments.

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Speaker 2: Kelsey's murder, according to law enforcement, seemed to be completely

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Speaker 2: a crime of opportunity at the time. Tulsa Police Sergeant

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00:19:03,161 --> 00:19:07,001
Speaker 2: Dave Walker described the horrific attacks and murder as being

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Speaker 2: due to an interrupted burglary to Tulsa World Daily, there's

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00:19:11,121 --> 00:19:14,241
Speaker 2: not much information out there on Gregory Eperson. He was

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00:19:14,281 --> 00:19:17,041
Speaker 2: forty one years old when he was arrested for Kelsey's murder,

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00:19:17,121 --> 00:19:19,961
Speaker 2: and he had a criminal history. He had previously been

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00:19:20,001 --> 00:19:24,401
Speaker 2: convicted of second degree burglary, driving under suspicion, obstructing an officer,

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00:19:24,561 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 2: and transporting an open container, but no serious felonies. He

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00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:31,880
Speaker 2: was described as a father of two who seemed to

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00:19:31,921 --> 00:19:35,881
Speaker 2: be between places to live. We did do some research

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00:19:35,921 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 2: and we found out Gregory was living in Tulsa in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four at.

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Speaker 3: The time of Britney's attack.

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Speaker 2: He was linked to an address about a ten minute

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Speaker 2: drive away from Brittany's, but since he appears to have

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00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,401
Speaker 2: led a pretty transient lifestyle, to be honest, it's hard

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Speaker 2: to pinpoint exactly where he was. But shockingly, it came

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00:19:56,161 --> 00:19:59,841
Speaker 2: out later that Kelsey's murder was not the first time

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00:19:59,921 --> 00:20:02,921
Speaker 2: that Gregory Eperson had been connected with the murder in Tulsa.

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00:20:03,721 --> 00:20:06,721
Speaker 2: In September of two thousand and eight, Gregory's landlord, Ray

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00:20:06,761 --> 00:20:11,201
Speaker 2: Johnson Junior, disappeared. Ray Johnson Junior ran a used car

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Speaker 2: shop at six thousand North Peoria. His vehicle was found

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00:20:14,681 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 2: in front of his workplace, and there was blood inside

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Speaker 2: the trunk of the car, blood that investigators said the

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Speaker 2: trunk had been.

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Speaker 3: Cleaned with bleach.

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Speaker 2: Even though this homicide happened in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 2: Charges weren't filed against Gregory until July tenth, twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 2: At that time, Tulsa Police Sergeant Dave Walker put out

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Speaker 2: a wanted notice for Gregory Epperson, and shortly after that,

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Speaker 2: Gregory turned himself in. He was arraigned on July seventeen,

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and charged with first degree murder. In court,

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Speaker 2: police said they believed Gregory Epperson had shot and killed

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Speaker 2: Ray Johnson, thrown his body into the trunk of a car,

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Speaker 2: and dumped the body into a creek. However, Ray Johnson's

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00:20:59,801 --> 00:21:04,241
Speaker 2: body was never found. According to an affidavit, police had

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00:21:04,281 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 2: a witness. This witness claim they had gone over to

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Speaker 2: Gregory Eperson's house sometime in September of two thousand and eight.

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00:21:10,601 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 2: The witness said when he got there, he said that

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00:21:13,161 --> 00:21:16,001
Speaker 2: Gregory was holding a bucket of bleach, that there was

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00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,481
Speaker 2: blood on the ground and a body on the side

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00:21:18,481 --> 00:21:22,281
Speaker 2: of Gregory's house. The witness said that Gregory was hosing

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00:21:22,321 --> 00:21:25,441
Speaker 2: down his driveway to get rid of the blood. Then

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00:21:25,641 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 2: he claimed Gregory put a gun to his head and

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Speaker 2: forced him to help put the body in the trunk.

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Speaker 2: But then in January of twenty sixteen, the DA dropped

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00:21:36,321 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: the charges against Gregory Eperson. Later media reports said this

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00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: was due to the fact that investigators never found Ay

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Speaker 2: Johnson's body. They said there was a lack of evidence.

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00:21:48,201 --> 00:21:52,681
Speaker 2: News Channel nine interviewed Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Coonsweiler.

349
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Speaker 2: He said, quote, the prosecution of Gregory Jerome Eperson for

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Speaker 2: the death of Ray Johnson was discontinued due to significant

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00:22:01,001 --> 00:22:04,201
Speaker 2: concerns about the lack of corroborating evidence to convict him.

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Speaker 3: End quote.

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Speaker 2: One problem was DNA, one newspaper said, quote DNA checks

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00:22:10,921 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 2: to connect that blood and hair took a while to

355
00:22:13,401 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: come back, so charges were dropped end quote. That's the

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00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:20,401
Speaker 2: line I've read a few times, and I wonder why

357
00:22:20,441 --> 00:22:24,001
Speaker 2: did it take over seven years to get DNA back

358
00:22:24,041 --> 00:22:27,761
Speaker 2: on this case. There were also no eyewitnesses to the

359
00:22:27,801 --> 00:22:31,321
Speaker 2: actual death. The DA said the witness was a convicted felon,

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00:22:31,641 --> 00:22:33,761
Speaker 2: and that that witness had only told the story about

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00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:36,681
Speaker 2: Gregory Eperson after he was arrested for another crime.

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Speaker 3: Another issue the DA said they.

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00:22:39,121 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 2: Had was that the witness's story about finding the body

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Speaker 2: and being forced at gunpoint to help dispose of it

365
00:22:44,881 --> 00:22:48,241
Speaker 2: couldn't be corroborated by any other witnesses or by any

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Speaker 2: other evidence, So in twenty sixteen, Gregory Eperson walked away

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Speaker 2: a free man. After the news broke about Kelsey Tenants

368
00:22:58,561 --> 00:23:02,521
Speaker 2: murder in twenty seventeen and news organizations started looking around

369
00:23:02,561 --> 00:23:06,961
Speaker 2: into Gregory Eperson's past, they learned that neither Kelsey's brutal

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00:23:07,041 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 2: killing nor the disappearance of Ray Johnson were the first

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00:23:10,401 --> 00:23:14,241
Speaker 2: time that Gregory Eperson had been suspected of murder. Police

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00:23:14,321 --> 00:23:18,201
Speaker 2: also stated Gregory Eperson was the suspect and yet another murder,

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Speaker 2: a third murder of his landlord, John Baker, who was

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00:23:21,721 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: reported missing in twenty ten. John Baker's body was found

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Speaker 2: a few months later by Lake Keystone. Tulsa Police homicide

376
00:23:30,921 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: Sergeant Dave Walker told news reporters that the last person

377
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Speaker 2: known to have talked to John Baker was Gregory Eperson,

378
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,001
Speaker 2: who at the time was living in one of John's

379
00:23:40,001 --> 00:23:43,761
Speaker 2: rental houses. But by the time investigators found John baker

380
00:23:43,881 --> 00:23:47,521
Speaker 2: body at that lake, the physical evidence had deteriorated, so

381
00:23:47,641 --> 00:23:50,881
Speaker 2: in the end, they did not find enough usable evidence

382
00:23:50,961 --> 00:23:55,161
Speaker 2: to charge Gregory Eperson with anything, which meant that Gregory

383
00:23:55,161 --> 00:23:59,041
Speaker 2: Epperson could have very possibly gotten away with murder twice

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Speaker 2: by the time he broke into Kelsey Tenant's apartment, and

385
00:24:02,161 --> 00:24:05,481
Speaker 2: he was already in his forties. Could he have committed

386
00:24:05,521 --> 00:24:10,241
Speaker 2: other crimes or other murders over the years. After Gregory

387
00:24:10,281 --> 00:24:12,681
Speaker 2: was charged with Kelsey Tenant's murder and the attack on

388
00:24:12,681 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: her boyfriend Riley, the prosecution announced that they were seeking

389
00:24:16,121 --> 00:24:19,361
Speaker 2: the death penalty in connection with Kelsey's murder. This would

390
00:24:19,401 --> 00:24:22,201
Speaker 2: have been the first case in Oklahoma where someone was

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00:24:22,321 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: charged with murder and could receive the death penalty in

392
00:24:25,281 --> 00:24:29,841
Speaker 2: many years, and Kelsey's mother, Michelle, said that the family

393
00:24:29,881 --> 00:24:32,121
Speaker 2: got a shock when they showed up for their court

394
00:24:32,161 --> 00:24:35,321
Speaker 2: hearing before the scheduled trial and discovered that Gregory Eperson,

395
00:24:35,641 --> 00:24:39,281
Speaker 2: who had previously denied any involvement in Kelsey's murder, was

396
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Speaker 2: pleading guilty.

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Speaker 5: We were set to start the jury trial in December,

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00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:49,961
Speaker 5: and I believe that it was late September early October

399
00:24:50,681 --> 00:24:54,521
Speaker 5: when we went for the court hearing. We're a couple

400
00:24:54,521 --> 00:24:57,641
Speaker 5: of hours away, So when we got there, we went

401
00:24:57,761 --> 00:25:02,521
Speaker 5: to the floor for families of victims and met our

402
00:25:02,601 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 5: advocate and I used the restaurroom Brokswick and when I

403
00:25:06,201 --> 00:25:09,601
Speaker 5: came out, she said, the dasis called, he's decided.

404
00:25:09,201 --> 00:25:09,961
Speaker 6: To plead guilty.

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00:25:10,001 --> 00:25:12,561
Speaker 5: We need to get the family down there. So we

406
00:25:12,601 --> 00:25:15,321
Speaker 5: went down to the courtroom and he fled guilty. The

407
00:25:15,401 --> 00:25:19,681
Speaker 5: judge made him answer a bunch of questions, so he

408
00:25:20,241 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 5: answered the questions. The judge asked him if he did it,

409
00:25:23,401 --> 00:25:25,561
Speaker 5: and he asked me if he had anything else you said,

410
00:25:25,561 --> 00:25:28,601
Speaker 5: He said no. They looked at me to see if

411
00:25:28,601 --> 00:25:32,681
Speaker 5: we wanted to do a victim statement, and I think

412
00:25:32,721 --> 00:25:35,321
Speaker 5: I was just since that thought that he was actually

413
00:25:35,401 --> 00:25:38,881
Speaker 5: admitting to it, and I didn't know what I would say,

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Speaker 5: so I just shook in my head.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 2: The death penalty was taken off the table when he

417
00:25:45,201 --> 00:25:48,961
Speaker 2: pled guilty. Gregory Epperson was sentenced to life in prison

418
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Speaker 2: without the possibility of parole. Kelsey's mother said that, in

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00:25:53,441 --> 00:25:58,041
Speaker 2: addition to never expressing remorse, Gregory didn't answer any questions

420
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,481
Speaker 2: at all, either for Kelsey's family or the judge about

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00:26:01,521 --> 00:26:04,761
Speaker 2: her brutal murder, but he may have talked to other

422
00:26:04,801 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: people behind bars. According to media reports, Gregory Eperson bragged

423
00:26:09,441 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: to a fellow inmate that he had already beaten two

424
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,001
Speaker 2: murder charges. To my knowledge, no one has ever connected

425
00:26:17,041 --> 00:26:20,521
Speaker 2: Gregory Epperson to Britney's case, But now that he's been

426
00:26:20,561 --> 00:26:24,041
Speaker 2: convicted of Kelsey's murder and his DNA's in the system,

427
00:26:24,401 --> 00:26:28,121
Speaker 2: I absolutely believed that the DNA from under Britney's fingernails

428
00:26:28,441 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 2: should be tested against his and the other millions of

429
00:26:31,441 --> 00:26:35,921
Speaker 2: DNA profiles of convicted felons in Cotis And I also

430
00:26:36,001 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: wonder could Gregory have committed other crimes that he was

431
00:26:40,201 --> 00:26:51,441
Speaker 2: never charged with over the years. Remember that last week

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00:26:51,481 --> 00:26:54,321
Speaker 2: we talked to doctor Maggie's Ingman, Britney's mom, who has

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Speaker 2: been crusading for justice for her daughter for over two decades. Now.

434
00:26:58,681 --> 00:27:01,321
Speaker 2: You may remember that the original DNA profile that was

435
00:27:01,321 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: sent off for testing was taken from blood and semen

436
00:27:03,921 --> 00:27:07,721
Speaker 2: that was found in Britney's apartment. From that DNA profile,

437
00:27:08,121 --> 00:27:11,561
Speaker 2: Parabond created a composite photo of a white male with

438
00:27:11,641 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: brown or blonde hair and blue or green eyes. That

439
00:27:15,961 --> 00:27:19,241
Speaker 2: was the profile police used to search for Britney's killer

440
00:27:19,401 --> 00:27:24,201
Speaker 2: for fifteen years. However, we also learned that in twenty nineteen,

441
00:27:24,721 --> 00:27:28,481
Speaker 2: after police got an exact DNA match, they learned that

442
00:27:28,561 --> 00:27:30,681
Speaker 2: the man who was the DNA match to the blood

443
00:27:30,681 --> 00:27:32,761
Speaker 2: and seamen was not their suspect.

444
00:27:33,001 --> 00:27:35,281
Speaker 3: He was someone who had dated a friend of Britney's.

445
00:27:35,681 --> 00:27:38,681
Speaker 2: They had spent the night at Britney's apartment recently, so

446
00:27:39,241 --> 00:27:41,321
Speaker 2: that's why police said there was a tiny bit of

447
00:27:41,321 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: blood and there was semen on britney sheets. We talked

448
00:27:45,121 --> 00:27:48,001
Speaker 2: to Maggie again about the other DNA found at the scene,

449
00:27:48,481 --> 00:27:52,721
Speaker 2: the DNA that was found under Britney's fingernails. Police told

450
00:27:52,801 --> 00:27:56,961
Speaker 2: Maggie that the parabond DNA composite was completely off. The

451
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,841
Speaker 2: DNA under Britney's fingernails was from a different contributor, and

452
00:28:02,401 --> 00:28:06,201
Speaker 2: that this DNA indicated that Britney's assailant was not a

453
00:28:06,241 --> 00:28:10,241
Speaker 2: white male. Maggie wasn't sure by what the detective said

454
00:28:10,601 --> 00:28:13,081
Speaker 2: if they meant the person was mixed race or Asian

455
00:28:13,201 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: Native American Black. There are a lot of possibilities, but

456
00:28:17,281 --> 00:28:21,401
Speaker 2: the original DNA composite was the wrong race. This new

457
00:28:21,441 --> 00:28:24,961
Speaker 2: information did prompt us to go back and expand our search.

458
00:28:25,521 --> 00:28:27,841
Speaker 2: We wanted to look at attacks in the same area

459
00:28:27,881 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: where Britney was murdered.

460
00:28:29,401 --> 00:28:30,761
Speaker 3: We were focusing on.

461
00:28:30,521 --> 00:28:34,041
Speaker 2: One robberies and attacks that may not have been centered

462
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,441
Speaker 2: on rape or sexual assault, or where sexual assault didn't

463
00:28:37,441 --> 00:28:41,321
Speaker 2: appear to be the primary motive, and two crimes where

464
00:28:41,361 --> 00:28:45,041
Speaker 2: the assailant was a non white man, and we're still

465
00:28:45,081 --> 00:28:48,921
Speaker 2: in the process of doing that. So what's next for

466
00:28:48,961 --> 00:28:53,201
Speaker 2: Britney's investigation. I believe that the numerous towels and item

467
00:28:53,281 --> 00:28:56,561
Speaker 2: of clothing that were found adjacent to Britney's body could

468
00:28:56,681 --> 00:29:00,441
Speaker 2: point to someone disorganized, someone who had access the apartment

469
00:29:00,681 --> 00:29:03,041
Speaker 2: and was in the process of robbing it when Brittany

470
00:29:03,081 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: walked in, or who surprised her outside her car or

471
00:29:08,001 --> 00:29:11,801
Speaker 2: ambushed her on the way into her apartment. The killer

472
00:29:11,921 --> 00:29:14,801
Speaker 2: may have tried to sexually assault Brittany. The fact that

473
00:29:14,841 --> 00:29:17,001
Speaker 2: she was on the floor and naked from the waist

474
00:29:17,001 --> 00:29:19,841
Speaker 2: down with her tampon removed dow seemed to point to that,

475
00:29:20,401 --> 00:29:23,521
Speaker 2: but again, there was no definitive proof of sexual assault

476
00:29:23,561 --> 00:29:27,321
Speaker 2: in the medical examiner's report. In fact, the report said

477
00:29:27,321 --> 00:29:30,561
Speaker 2: there was no sign of external genital trauma and no

478
00:29:30,721 --> 00:29:35,161
Speaker 2: mention of semen being found. I do question why there

479
00:29:35,201 --> 00:29:38,401
Speaker 2: was not a more extensive sexual assault kit run. Even

480
00:29:38,441 --> 00:29:41,281
Speaker 2: though DNA does start to deteriorate after a few days,

481
00:29:41,681 --> 00:29:44,361
Speaker 2: it had been at most three days, and traces of

482
00:29:44,441 --> 00:29:48,321
Speaker 2: seamen could have been found maybe that could have provided

483
00:29:48,401 --> 00:29:52,841
Speaker 2: more definitive answers about whether or not Britney was sexually assaulted.

484
00:29:56,881 --> 00:29:59,881
Speaker 2: Maggie continues to drive around the country in her caravan

485
00:29:59,961 --> 00:30:03,801
Speaker 2: to catch killer, talking to other families, interviewing experts, and

486
00:30:03,841 --> 00:30:07,521
Speaker 2: talking to anyone and everyone she thinks could potentially help

487
00:30:07,601 --> 00:30:11,241
Speaker 2: shed light on her daughter's case. The main thing that

488
00:30:11,361 --> 00:30:14,641
Speaker 2: needs to happen now is that the Tulsa Police need

489
00:30:14,681 --> 00:30:17,281
Speaker 2: to tell Maggie whether or not they have been able

490
00:30:17,321 --> 00:30:20,241
Speaker 2: to test the DNA under Britney's fingernails and what the

491
00:30:20,281 --> 00:30:23,921
Speaker 2: status of those tests is now. The fingernail DNA and

492
00:30:24,161 --> 00:30:28,081
Speaker 2: any other relevant DNA needs to be run through CODIS since,

493
00:30:28,121 --> 00:30:31,321
Speaker 2: as we've discussed, a lot of killers have been caught

494
00:30:31,361 --> 00:30:36,041
Speaker 2: since then, maybe that DNA will be the key to me.

495
00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:41,041
Speaker 2: The investigation keeps coming back to Britney's apartment, as her

496
00:30:41,081 --> 00:30:43,161
Speaker 2: friend Lydia said, it was in the back of the

497
00:30:43,161 --> 00:30:47,401
Speaker 2: apartment call complex and dark and isolated, and Britney's balcony

498
00:30:47,401 --> 00:30:49,881
Speaker 2: windows were open when her body was found, and the

499
00:30:49,961 --> 00:30:52,801
Speaker 2: door was unlocked, and I keep coming back to something

500
00:30:52,801 --> 00:30:56,161
Speaker 2: else that Lydia said that Britney's car window was rolled down.

501
00:30:56,841 --> 00:30:59,441
Speaker 2: This may have been just a random oversight, But it

502
00:30:59,561 --> 00:31:02,481
Speaker 2: seems to me that leaving a window down is not

503
00:31:02,681 --> 00:31:05,481
Speaker 2: something that a young woman living on her own would

504
00:31:05,521 --> 00:31:09,241
Speaker 2: normally do when locking her car at night. According to

505
00:31:09,281 --> 00:31:12,401
Speaker 2: a two thousand and four article in The Oklahoma Tulsa

506
00:31:12,441 --> 00:31:14,641
Speaker 2: experienced a rise in crime in two thousand and four,

507
00:31:14,961 --> 00:31:18,841
Speaker 2: including a rise in armed robberies and gang violence. In

508
00:31:18,921 --> 00:31:22,641
Speaker 2: many cases, victims were fatally shot during robberies even after

509
00:31:22,681 --> 00:31:25,881
Speaker 2: complying with the robbers. It was reported at the time

510
00:31:25,961 --> 00:31:29,041
Speaker 2: that the Justice Department was sending federal agents to Tulsa

511
00:31:29,081 --> 00:31:32,121
Speaker 2: and fourteen other cities that had a dramatic rise in

512
00:31:32,241 --> 00:31:36,481
Speaker 2: violent crime. Given that, it seems even more unlikely that

513
00:31:36,481 --> 00:31:38,521
Speaker 2: Britney would choose to leave her window down.

514
00:31:39,401 --> 00:31:41,961
Speaker 4: It's a situation where she was getting out of her car,

515
00:31:42,441 --> 00:31:46,921
Speaker 4: she was alone. It would start She's walking behind the

516
00:31:46,961 --> 00:31:48,361
Speaker 4: building by herself.

517
00:31:49,641 --> 00:31:50,921
Speaker 6: I don't know.

518
00:31:50,961 --> 00:31:53,321
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was that timing to someone

519
00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:56,041
Speaker 4: just saw her and she was just amazing target what

520
00:31:56,681 --> 00:31:59,241
Speaker 4: Because they said that there was no sign of forced injury,

521
00:31:59,881 --> 00:32:04,361
Speaker 4: So maybe the person just literally followed her upstairs.

522
00:32:07,681 --> 00:32:11,121
Speaker 2: There's also the possibility, as Tulsa police have stated that

523
00:32:11,161 --> 00:32:14,401
Speaker 2: there are people out there who know something, Maybe even

524
00:32:14,441 --> 00:32:18,761
Speaker 2: people in or around Britney's apartment complex or neighborhood who

525
00:32:18,841 --> 00:32:23,081
Speaker 2: know something or saw something. Even though it's been over

526
00:32:23,121 --> 00:32:26,881
Speaker 2: twenty years, I'm hoping that someone will come forward and

527
00:32:26,961 --> 00:32:29,481
Speaker 2: help this mother who's been trying to get justice for

528
00:32:29,521 --> 00:32:31,001
Speaker 2: over two decades.

529
00:32:30,841 --> 00:32:31,761
Speaker 3: Find some answers.

530
00:32:32,441 --> 00:32:35,801
Speaker 2: Britney's killer could still be out there and he may

531
00:32:35,881 --> 00:32:39,681
Speaker 2: have killed again. If you have any information about the

532
00:32:39,761 --> 00:32:43,601
Speaker 2: murder Britney Phillips, please call Tulsa Crime Stoppers at night

533
00:32:44,641 --> 00:32:51,521
Speaker 2: five nine six cops or email Homicide at Cityfoftulsa dot org.

534
00:32:52,481 --> 00:32:53,641
Speaker 3: I'm Katherine Townsend.

535
00:32:54,041 --> 00:32:59,281
Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line

536
00:32:59,321 --> 00:33:01,961
Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

537
00:33:02,201 --> 00:33:05,521
Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

538
00:33:05,601 --> 00:33:06,521
Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts.

539
00:33:07,081 --> 00:33:08,641
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Amy.

540
00:33:08,401 --> 00:33:11,921
Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review.

541
00:33:12,521 --> 00:33:15,681
Speaker 2: Noah Camer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song

542
00:33:15,801 --> 00:33:20,121
Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,

543
00:33:20,201 --> 00:33:23,401
Speaker 2: and LC Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by

544
00:33:23,401 --> 00:33:27,161
Speaker 2: subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts.

545
00:33:27,601 --> 00:33:30,481
Speaker 2: If you're interested in seeing documents and materials from the case,

546
00:33:30,881 --> 00:33:34,361
Speaker 2: you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonepod.

547
00:33:34,921 --> 00:33:36,721
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

548
00:33:36,761 --> 00:33:39,241
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

549
00:33:39,241 --> 00:33:41,521
Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

550
00:33:42,001 --> 00:33:44,201
Speaker 2: seven four four six one four or five.

551
00:33:44,721 --> 00:33:48,641
Speaker 3: That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

552
00:33:52,841 --> 00:33:53,721
Speaker 1: School of Humans

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00:33:55,361 --> 00:33:55,401
Speaker 2: H