1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to a very special episode of Wrongful Conviction, in 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: which we're trying something new. I've asked a previous guest 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: to take on my usual role as interviewer. You might 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: remember Patrick Pursley from his own episode of Wrongful Conviction. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: Patrick did what seemed to be the impossible to win 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: his freedom. He got a law changed from inside prison 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: to allow for the post conviction ballistics testing that proved 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: his innocence. Just an amazing feat accomplished by a truly 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: amazing guy. And now he brings us an interview with 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: another innocent man who he knew while inside Illinois Dateville Penitentiary, 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: Jacques Rivera. 12 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: On August twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight, a sixteen year 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: old named Felix Valentine was shot in his car on 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: the West Side of Chicago. At the hospital, responding officers 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: spoke with the victim to identify the shooter and getaway 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: driver as members of the Imperial Gangsters. However, a corrupt 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: detective named Ronaldo Gavera instead targeted JOCKX Rivera, a member 18 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: of a different gang, the Latin Kings. Jox ran a 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: local recreation center that Gavera often targeted for information. Despite 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: the victim's dying declaration to responding officers, Gavera claimed to 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: have gotten a different identification during the eighteen days before 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: the victim's death. Gavera then misled an eleven year old 23 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: eye witness to corroborate that focush identification, charging Jocks with 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: the murder. JOCKX was tried under Judge Michael Close, who 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: had recently been the focus of Operation Gray Lord, one 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: of the biggest judicial corruption investigations in the United States history. 27 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: The judge would allow the testimony of the victim's original identification, 28 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: and with the false testimonies Cavera and the misled child witness, 29 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: Judge Close convicted and sends JOCKX Rivera to eighty years. 30 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: When the Center on Wrongful Convictions took on Jock's case, 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: they found the eyewitness, now an adult, who greeted them 32 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: with relief, saying that he had been waiting to tell 33 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: the truth for the last twenty three years since. An 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: investigation into Carverre's corruption has resulted in the exoneration of 35 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: over twenty innocent men and women, costing Chicago over fifty 36 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: million dollars in counting. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome to 37 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: wrongful Conviction. This is Patrick Persley, also known as Free 38 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: Patrick Persley. I was previously a guest on Wrongful Conviction, 39 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: but today I'm honored to feeling for Jason Flam and 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: we have a very special guest with us, a friend 41 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: of mine, someone I knew a long time while in 42 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: state fuels of my own wrongful conviction, mister Jacks Rivera. 43 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: Sir, Oh Patrick, I'm good man, I am really good. 44 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: So one, thank you for having the trust in me. 45 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: Tell your story on behalf of Jason Flom. I know 46 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: it's hard telling our stories, put in our pain out 47 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: there on the line. Could you explain to the audience 48 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: a little bit about yourself and just our. 49 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: Connection, our connection unfortunately being in prison together. You know, 50 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: you was a great dude. Unfortunately for us, we were 51 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: wrongfully convicted, so that doesn't change our character of who 52 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 3: we were before we went in there. We didn't let 53 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: it change who we were. 54 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: No, we didn't, and I appreciate that. Jocks, your case 55 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: is well, you know, you kind of hit the double 56 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: reverse Jackpie here. You have one of the most corrupt 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: detectives in Chicago history, which is saying a lot and 58 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: his name is Detective Ronaldo Cavert. Real infamous guy. It's 59 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: responsible for so many wrongful convictions over twenty accounts, and 60 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: it's cost the city of Chicago fifty million dollars. And 61 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: I can just tell you it's a house lawyer from Stateville. 62 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: You know, my twenty three years doing cases down there, 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: his name came up again and again, and there was 64 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: definitely a pattern present throughout. And then on top of that, 65 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: you got judge who was a person interest in investigation 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 2: and judicial corruption in the eighties called Operation Gray Lord. 67 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: The investigation was meant to root out pay for play 68 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: scandal on which judges were accepting bribes where basically they 69 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: were fixing everything from parking tickets to murders. The judge 70 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: in your case, Michael Close, was alleged to it taking 71 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars to fix a murder case find 72 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: one defendant not guilty and the other definditt guilty. I 73 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: believe while Judge Michael Close was never criminally prosecuted, he 74 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 2: was pursued in civil suits and the Cook County State's 75 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: Attorney's Office they represented him, and basically their position was 76 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: that he was immune from civil litigation during the commission 77 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: of his judicial duties, so therefore he was immune from 78 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: civil liability according to the law. So I think that 79 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 2: says a lot of about this case and where we're headed, 80 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: and we haven't even started yet. But Jocks, let's talk 81 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: about your life. What was your life like growing up 82 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: in the city of Chicago during this time. 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, growing up on the northwest side of Chicago, the 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: Humble Park area during the late seventies, all of the eighties, 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: you know, really gang infested, high crime, and you had 86 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: like four main gangs. There were the Imperial Gangsters, the 87 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: Same Spanish Cobras, the maniac Land Disciples, and the lank Kyns. 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: My dad had passed away when I was fifteen, and 89 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: I had five other siblings that my mom had to 90 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: take care of, and you know, I was just roaming 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: the streets. I was really distraught about my dad passing 92 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: I did, you know, he was kind of my rock, 93 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 3: my guide, and you know, they didn't really have much 94 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: of a choice but to join the gang at that point. 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: They offered protection, and without that protection, you'll be a 96 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: target in the area, and we couldn't move out that area. 97 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 3: So it wasn't like I wanted to do that or 98 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: go down that path. I just had no other choice. 99 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: I was a member of the land Kings. So in 100 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: Humble Park they had a festival yearly. It was called 101 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: the Fiesta post Analist. It's the celebration of the Latino culture. 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: And there would be times where the gang violence was 103 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: real bad in this festival time. So what the city 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: decided to do, along with the Puerto Rican Institute, was 105 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: to pay game members to govern their own you know, 106 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: to stop the violence. So the gentleman from the Spanish 107 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: coalition suggested that we use this money to open up 108 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 3: a community center, which was a great. 109 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: Thing and just for people not familiar with Chicago, this 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: was quite commonplace where the city paid the gangs to 111 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: keep their guys in line. This was even done in prison, 112 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: and it's called in main tenant control program. So this 113 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: community center gets going over the years, gets a couple 114 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: of name changes, and I believe it's been named the 115 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: Humble Park Institute, that's correct. 116 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when I really got involved in it, and 117 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: it was doing so well that the city they wanted 118 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: to give us more money to open up a recreational center. 119 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 3: They did, and we opened it up and that was 120 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 3: running it. It was called Mind and Body. We had 121 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: weights in their foolsball table, ara hockey gains for the 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: kids for after school programs, and people came in there 123 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: a lot adults and kids. 124 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: So it was considered like a safe place for a family. Yeah, 125 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 2: even though it's like in this so called gang infrastructure, 126 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: there was some good elements that came out of it. 127 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely was. And that's why I think the 128 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: troubles began. This detective Nalvo Guevera. He used to come 129 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: in there from time to time looking for people. I 130 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: was like, you know, we have none to hide here. 131 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: It seemed like at first that he was just interested 132 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 3: in how this program came about, who's involved in it? 133 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: You know, who's in charge is running? I said, I am, 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: and we're part of the Humble Park Institute. And he 135 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 3: used that as a means to come in there to 136 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 3: look for people that he was looking for from the streets, 137 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: the gang members, whether if it was to arrest them 138 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: or just to talk to them or whatever it may be. 139 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: So now this brings us today, end of summer nineteen 140 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: eighty eight and the murder you got caught up in. 141 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: It was a gang relative murder. And I remember you 142 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: tell me it took someone actually come into Stateville laying 143 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: it all out for you to actually know what was 144 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes, what this actual beef was about. 145 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: You had mentioned like multiple gangs operating this area. I 146 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: believe it was Latin Kings, Maniact Latin Disciples, the Imperial Gangsters, 147 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: Insane Spanish Cobras. What was going on at that time. 148 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: Those were the heavy hitters, if I could say that. 149 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: And then you had these little block games and the 150 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: two of them were Insane Campbell Boys and Maniac Campbell Boys. 151 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: And from what I understand was they were approached by 152 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: the Spanish Cobras and the Imperial Gangsters and they was 153 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 3: telling them, you can either join us or we're gonna 154 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: shut you down. 155 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: A simulation. 156 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I believe the Insane Campbell Boys went with 157 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 3: the Insane Spanish Cobras ISC and the Maniac Cambo Boys. 158 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: They said we were going to become Maniac Latin Disciples. 159 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: So the Maniac Camel Boys, now we're at war with 160 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: the Imperial Gangsters about their decision about not riding with 161 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: them but going with the Maniac Latin Disciples. 162 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: And from what I understand the victim in this case 163 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: we're talking about today, sixteen year old Felix Valentine. He 164 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: and his brother were maniac Campbo boys who were assimilated 165 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: or basically had flipped into the maniac Latin Disciples, who, 166 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: like you said, they were now at war with the 167 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: Imperial Gangsters over that fact. And that takes us to 168 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: the day of the shooting August twenty seven, nineteen eighty eight. 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: Where Felix Valentine got shot was Imperial Gangster's neighborhood. He 170 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: was over there with his brother. They were going to 171 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 3: a wedding, and his brother went up the stairs and 172 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 3: he waited in the car, you know, like saying, hurry up, 173 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 3: get up, to get out, because you know where he's 174 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: supposed to be in this area. So according to the 175 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: police report and that women's report, a car drove up, 176 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: pulled right behind a Felix while he sat in the 177 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 3: mouth of the alley. Messenger got out. The car walked 178 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: up to Felix and then this person opened fire on him. 179 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 3: His brother heard the shots, came downstairs, ran to the car, 180 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 3: saw his brother limped over, and he opened the car 181 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: door pushed his brother. Felix over to the passenger side 182 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 3: and took off to the hospital. There was a Chicago 183 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 3: police officer that came on the scene. He went to 184 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: the hospital talk to the victim. 185 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: So this would be Officer Craig Letrich. He was responding officer. 186 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: He also talk to people at the crime scene. So 187 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 2: the next day Felix Valentine stabilizes Officer Lectric went to 188 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: the hospital and Felix told let Ridge and his partner 189 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: that was the Imperial gangsters who had shot him, right. 190 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, And he left the hospital, went back to 191 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: the police station and came back with an Imperial gangster 192 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: mug buck and lo and behold, Felix Valentine identifies Jose 193 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: Rodriguez and Philip Nevis. And he didn't just identify them, 194 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 3: he stipulated the participation that each of and he said 195 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: that Jose Rodriguez shot him and Philip Nevis was driving 196 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: the car. 197 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: So this should have been like an open and shutcase. 198 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: But that's not how this goes down. So even though 199 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: Felix found saying the victim in this case tells Officer Electric, 200 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: the responding officers whose attackers were detected. Guevera led the 201 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: investigation a whole nother direction. Now, there's also a witness, 202 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: eleven year old boy from the Imperial Gangster's neighborhood named 203 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: Orlando Lopez, whose sister also happened to be dating Felix's brother, 204 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 2: and allegedly witnessed the shooting. And he allegedly said, because 205 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: we're not even sure what he actually said is might 206 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: have been fed to him by Gavera. But he allegedly 207 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: says he was standing at an indentation in the alley 208 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: and saw the shooter from the back and described the 209 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: shooter as about five ten dressed in black and gold. 210 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: Now those are Latin King colors, not Imperial Gangster colors. 211 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: What else was alleged? 212 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: He said that the car turned southbound on Spall, which 213 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: is in the direction of the Latin Kings, and was 214 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 3: for certain that the shooter's hair in the back he 215 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: had a ponytail, and it was dyed like a blond 216 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 3: gold color. 217 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: And Gavera starts looking for marks depending on in Latin 218 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: King's territory or maybe even had you in mind. So 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: how did you do it? How did you get caught 220 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: up in this? 221 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: Gavera came into the neighborhood. I was out there with 222 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: the guys. He drove upon us and he said, I 223 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: need to talk to you. What they used to do 224 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: was use people as fillers in lineups, and I stood 225 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: in a few lineups before. They just said, you know, 226 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: don't worry about it. We know you didn't do it. 227 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: We just need fillers. So and Gavera drove up and 228 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: he said, you know, we want to know if you're 229 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: standing in a lineup. And I just knew it was 230 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: funny because it's like seven to ten guys there and 231 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: you picked me out of everybody. 232 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: Did you fit the description? 233 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 3: No, not at all. I mean my hair was long 234 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 3: in the back and never wore it in the ponytail, pigtail, 235 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 3: none of that, or had it dyed that color or 236 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: any color for that matter. 237 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 2: So your very approaches you and you feel kind of 238 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: strange about this line of being a filler. But you 239 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 2: did it before, so what's going through your mind? Is 240 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: this is happening? And what happened? 241 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 3: I said, something was wrong? And when I hesitated, he 242 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: opened up his coat and moved his coat from around 243 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: his revolver as to say, you could come peacefully, or 244 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 3: if you could come fortfully, I said, I know aught 245 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 3: to do nothing wrong, so I went with him. I 246 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: was held in the police station for that day, in 247 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 3: the whole next day, and then on the third day 248 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 3: they put me in a lineup with Imperial Gangsters. Why 249 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 3: would you put me in a lineup with Imperial gangsters? 250 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 3: If it was the Lame Kings, you did it right. 251 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,359 Speaker 2: That's crazy. And for Orlando Lopez is from the Imperial 252 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: Gangsters territory, he probably knows all those guys. It looks 253 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: a little bit like they might have been trying to 254 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: lead the witness to pick someone that they didn't know. 255 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: So were you identified at that time? 256 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: No, I was not identified. They let me go. 257 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: So that was your first line up with this case, 258 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: and they let you go, and little time passes, so 259 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: you probably think the whole thing is behind you, is 260 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: blown over. But then at this time, if we could 261 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: kind of see like a split screen behind the scenes, 262 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 2: you're living your life and these two other things are 263 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: going on. First, Felix Mountein's health is rapidly going down. 264 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: He now slips into a coma and eventually dies eighteen 265 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,359 Speaker 2: days after the shooting on September fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Meanwhile, 266 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: Cavera he's working in this Orlando Lopez kid. And it's 267 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: believed that Cavera told Lopez that he had visited Felix 268 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: at the hospital and Felix identified you. So then he 269 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: starts pulling Orlando's heartstring and say, this is your sister's 270 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: boyfriend's little brother that could have easily been you. So 271 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: Cavera relates to Orlando, you know the victim told him 272 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: it was Jacques. Rivera basically puts it on this kid, 273 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: like what would you want someone to do for you 274 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: in this particular situation. So now Cavera he rolls up 275 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: on you again exactly. 276 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: So, I was at the Humble Park Institute and here 277 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 3: the screeching of a car and it's Cavera and his 278 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: partner Harveston, and he said, hey, hey, camera, and I 279 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 3: went up to them. I put my hands up right around. 280 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: He cucked me up and he says, what car are 281 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: you driving? I said, a white Impalla. So why Cavera 282 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 3: went to search my car? I'm asking his partner, I said, man, 283 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: what's going on? Man? Joe picked me up by two 284 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: weeks ago, you asked me to stand in line. The 285 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: by standing on line him, I'm let go he says, 286 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: I don't know, this is Devera's case. So Gvera came back. 287 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: He sat me in the squad car and started proceeding 288 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 3: to Area five police station, and I just kept hounding him. 289 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 3: I was like, man, what's going on. They didn't buckled 290 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: me in the back seat. So he stopped the car 291 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: real quick, and as I flew forward, he grabbed me 292 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: by my shirt and he says, you're being charged with murder, motherfucker. 293 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: And he pushed me back and he said, now shut 294 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: the fuck up. 295 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 296 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 297 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 298 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light 299 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 300 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 301 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 302 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. 303 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: When we get to the police station, they put me 304 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: in a lineup with Latin keeams. This was the second lineup, 305 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 3: so I said, this time, I'm going to stand dead 306 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 3: center to make sure where were this witnesses so you 307 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 3: can see me to know that this is not me. 308 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: Another detector came in and he made the noise like 309 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: a game show, ding ding ding ding ding ding. He said, 310 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: we got a winner. They identified you as the shooter. 311 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: They removed the other gentleman that was in the lineup, 312 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: and they said, did you want to talk about this? 313 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 3: I said, there's nothing to talk about, man. I said, 314 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 3: I don't even know what's going on. What do you 315 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: want me to say? And the Gavara came up to me. 316 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: He goes, you know, you can make this easier on yourself. 317 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 3: Tell us who the shooter was, and we're going to 318 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 3: put you down for the driver and we're going to 319 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: help you out. I first thought to myself, not only 320 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 3: do you want me to implicate myself it's something that 321 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: I didn't do, but you want me to implicate somebody else? 322 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: Throw was someone else under the bus too? 323 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? 324 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 3: And I told him you got to be crazy, man, 325 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 3: I'm not going to confess that somebody didn't do or 326 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: implicate nobody else. He's like, well, that's okay. You don't 327 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 3: have to tell us something anyway, because you're going down 328 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 3: for this, and I was like, well, let the procedures begin. 329 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 2: So during cookkinity jail, I know the experience as far 330 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 2: as getting locked up, everything takes the fan, So can 331 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: you describe that? 332 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 3: Honestly, it was just a horrific time. Man. I had 333 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 3: no contact with my family. My wife was there when 334 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: he picked me up the second time, so she vectually 335 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: got a lawyer that was a family lawyer to a 336 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: friend of hers. 337 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: Now leading up to the actual trial, did you take 338 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: a jury or a bench trial? 339 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 3: I asked her. Feel my friends and they're like, well, 340 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 3: I have twelve people to say my fate stood of 341 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 3: one person. Man, I would take a jury. I would 342 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 3: take a jury. I would take a jury. Soap On 343 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: going back to court, my lawd is like, have you 344 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 3: come to a conclusion of what you want to do? 345 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: I was like, well, I think I want to take 346 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: a jury, and he's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, listen, listen. 347 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: We're out here in Skulky. These people out here read 348 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: and see on the news all day long about gang 349 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 3: related murders. He's like, I think we stand a better 350 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 3: chance of this judge. He's a good judge, and not 351 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 3: knowing the judges background being involved in the gray Lord operation, 352 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 3: I was think, well, you're my attorney, man, I got 353 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 3: confidence in you, so we took a bench trial. 354 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: Now you mentioned Operation gray Lord, which is perhaps even 355 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: more weighty as far as judicial import even more important 356 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: than this rogue detective conveyra. And for the listeners who 357 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: don't know Operation gray Lord, what's the largest corruption bus 358 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 2: in United States history? Comes straight out Cook County or 359 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: should they say Cook County, Illinois. It led to an 360 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: unprecedented number of indictments against public officials that got seventeen judges, 361 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 2: forty eight lawyers, eight cops, ten deputy sheriffs, eight court officials, 362 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: and one good old legislator. Can't leave him out, Your 363 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: judge was one of the many judges investigated in this 364 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: sting operation. The Honorable Judge Michael Close was alleged to 365 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: have taken a bride in a case not connected to 366 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: this one. But nevertheless, it was still alleged that one 367 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: of these two defendants fighting a murder case and front 368 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: Judge Close, Robert Bridges, paid twenty five thousand dollars so 369 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 2: that he would obtain a not guilty verdict in his 370 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: bench trial. And this Rappie John Carterlino, who also had 371 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 2: judge close, would be conversely found guilty. So, unbeknownst to you, Jock, 372 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: you're having a bench trial, so your whole life is 373 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 2: placed in this judge's hands, who's obviously morally compromised. So, Jock, 374 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: what was presented against you? What did they actually use 375 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 2: during the trial? 376 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: The prosecution put Alando Lopez understand He was pryed up 377 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: by Gevera to say that he saw it man from 378 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 3: the back, about five ten, wearing black and gold with 379 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: a gold dyed ponytail. He said that the man shot 380 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: Felix and hopped into a ghettoray card that went down Spalding. 381 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 3: When asked if he got a look at the shooter's face, 382 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 3: he said that he only caught a glimpse of the shooter, 383 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 3: always looking at the back of the shooter. When asked 384 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: if he could point to the shooter and cord today, 385 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: he said it was me and he pointed at me. 386 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: I was going crazy at that moment, you know, in 387 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: my mind saying you're fucking lying man, Why are you 388 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: doing this? Why are you saying that this is me? 389 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 3: And you know, Dan wat I didn't do the shooting. 390 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 3: Then Gevera got understand and said that when he arrested 391 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: me that I had a ponytail which was dyed gold 392 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 3: or blind in the back, which of course it never was. 393 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: And then Vera said he visited the victim, Felix Valentine 394 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 3: in the hospital, maybe a couple of days, if not 395 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: a week before he died, and that he identified me 396 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 3: to shoot her out of a photo lineup. My defense 397 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: put on Officer Lectrice, who was the officer that was 398 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 3: on the scene who spoke to the victim. So upon 399 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 3: Officer Lectrich she didn't understand, the state intervened and they 400 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 3: had a sidebar and Judge Close said, I'm only going 401 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: to allow competent evidence, and so he would not allow 402 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: Officer Lectererates to testify that Felix Valentine, the victim, has 403 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 3: said that jose Rod Jugius was the one who shot 404 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: him and Philip Neaviz was the one that was driving 405 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 3: the car. He was only allowed to say that he 406 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: was on the scene and he visited the victim, and 407 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 3: he attempted to arrest two individuals in this case, and 408 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: basically that was it. 409 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: So if I'm understandings, you're saying the rich who's got 410 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: a dying declaration from the victim in the hospital who 411 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: shot him. For some reason, this is not competent or 412 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: credible evidence in his eyes, exactly. 413 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it. And then my alibi was the 414 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 3: mother of my kids, saw my atturney. He's telling me, well, 415 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 3: they're gonna say she's biased because she's the mother of 416 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: your kids. And then she went life for you. They 417 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 3: try to say that, well, if miss Rivera was actually 418 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 3: at home with his wife at the time of the shooting, 419 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 3: the defense would have put her on the stand. And 420 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 3: my lawyer was like, we object, you're on it. We're 421 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 3: not underneath now obligation to present a defense from the 422 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 3: corn the hell told him that you're supposed to represent me, 423 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 3: you know. And then my lawyer says, well, the state 424 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 3: would have said she was biased anyways. 425 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: So you found guilty. Bring us to that moment right. 426 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 3: Then, about the closing arguments, I actually thought that Judge 427 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 3: Clothes was gonna take some time and go back into 428 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 3: his chambers and consider all the evidence and come back 429 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: and gave his decision. But right there, understand, after the 430 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: closing arguments, he said, well, I came to my conclusion 431 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: and I find the defender guilty. And I was like, 432 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: wait a minute, man. You know, he didn't even take 433 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: ten to fifteen minutes. He just came straight down and said, 434 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 3: I find the defender guilty, and I was just like, 435 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 3: oh my goodness. He went back for satan See and 436 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 3: he gave me sixty years for the murder, for the shooting, 437 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: he gave me twenty years for Wooto and the heidious, 438 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: and then he gave me five for the UUW the 439 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: gun which they never had. Front of all, I was 440 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 3: worried about my family, the mother of my kids, my kids, 441 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 3: What's going to happen to them? But I knew at 442 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 3: that point that I had to prepare for what I 443 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 3: was going into. I wind up in the State Real 444 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 3: Correctional Center June of ninety. 445 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: Right, I was actually there in eighty nine. So can 446 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 2: you describe that? What's this like? What's this environment to you? 447 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 3: Well, the only thing that saved me was the gang 448 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 3: that I rode with. They were already waiting for me 449 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: to come in. They meet you downstairs while you're in 450 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 3: the bullpen, and they go tell the sergeant, hey, this 451 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 3: is one of ours. Put them up there. 452 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: With us because the gangs at that time they considered 453 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: themselves owning the cells exactly, and the officers put the 454 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: response building on the gang chiefs to keep the Indians 455 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: in mind and find them a sell. 456 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 3: So by I'm walking out seven gallery, I looked down 457 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: to one gallery and I see this guy hit this 458 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 3: officer with a baseball back boom, and I went, oh 459 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 3: my goodness, and they put me in the cell. It 460 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 3: was an empty cell and we went on a ninety 461 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 3: day lockdown in the middle of June in ninety ninety 462 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: five degree weather. I had no salt, no shampoo, I 463 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 3: had nothing. And then during the second month of being 464 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: on the lockdown, they sent another key up there who 465 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: was just coming in and they put him in the 466 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: cell with me. So we got along pretty good, and 467 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 3: we came out for lockdown. You know, we never even 468 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 3: made it to the childhall. Aucers came up there, ketus out. 469 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 3: We came out the cells and hear the gun go out, 470 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: boom boom. 471 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: Back on lockdown, Homie, back on lockdown. 472 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: Six months of lockdown, A first entering the prison system, 473 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 3: and it was hell, pure hell. 474 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 2: Did you try to like study law? What was your 475 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: mental process as far as how you were going to 476 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: get out. 477 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 3: Of there, well, I couldn't study nothing because we was 478 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 3: on a lockdown. We couldn't go nowhere. Nobody really had 479 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: any law books. Amazingly enough, before I left the county jail, 480 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 3: somebody told me, listen, man, file for your notice of appeal, 481 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 3: because you only got thirty days to do this. So 482 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: I filed it in the county jail. I was telling 483 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: my wife, I said, listen, I got all this time. 484 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: Ain't no such a U weren't around for me, you know, 485 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 3: just move on with your life. She said, well, let's 486 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 3: wait to see what happens to the appeal process. I 487 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: got that dreaded letter, sorry Jacques, to infarm you that 488 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: they upon the cart that denied our petition today and 489 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 3: blah blah, blah blah. I think at that point I 490 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: started to lose home. 491 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: And so now you're done with your direct appeal. Do 492 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: you remember, like what year this was? 493 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 3: Ninety five, ninety six? Maybe? 494 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 2: So how did you first hear about Northwestern Center Run 495 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: for Convictions. I know they get thousands of letters every 496 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: year from inmates seeking representation. They represented me, but they 497 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 2: had told me no three times prior. Do you know what, 498 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: what major case stand out to them. 499 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 3: Actually was Detective Guervera. After losing that direct appeal and 500 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 3: knowing well was ahead of me, I got to start 501 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 3: reaching out to people and the lawle I buried in 502 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 3: State villed They have a list of pro bone attorneys 503 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: and law firms that would help with cases and stuff 504 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: like that. So I wrote Northwestern and Katherine Crawford was 505 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 3: one of the attorneys there who contacted me. And because 506 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 3: we're not taking your case, were just investigating Detective Guerverra 507 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 3: and we just want to ask you some questions. If 508 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 3: we should happen to come upon something, then we'll be 509 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 3: interested in taking the case. She stated that they were 510 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 3: trying to find the eyewitness with Alando Lopez. She goes, 511 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 3: you know, you have a good case, but you have 512 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 3: a bad case. You got a good case because you 513 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 3: was convicted on a single identification, no physical evidence, but 514 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: it's a bad case because there's no evidence that's not 515 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 3: for us to go on other than this eyewitness, and 516 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: we've been trying to locate them. 517 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: So then in twenty ten, with the advance of this 518 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 2: search engine tech, Northwestern locates the only way it's against you, 519 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: Orlando Lopez. It's been twenty three years since his false 520 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: identification in you So what happens next? 521 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 3: They went to his home and he answered the door 522 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 3: and they give him their car to tell them who 523 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 3: they was. He goes, I know who you're here for. 524 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 3: You're here for Jacques Rivera. And according to their statement, 525 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: he just kept saying, you know, this is all about redemption. 526 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 3: He says, First of all, I didn't even know Jacques 527 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 3: Rivera was still locked up. He goes, I don't even 528 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 3: know what happened to the case. He needed to clear 529 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 3: his conscience of this, and he's got three boys. He 530 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 3: said he couldn't look at them in the face knowing 531 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 3: that something like this can happen to them. They asked 532 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 3: them about nineteen eighty eight, the Phenix Volunteer shooting, and 533 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 3: he proceeded to say what transpired that day, and he 534 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: just stated that he was there and he saw somebody 535 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: and detect them. Another Gavera picked them up two days 536 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 3: maybe three days after shooting. He was showing a lineup 537 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 3: to identify somebody and he made no identification, and then 538 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 3: he proceeded to saying that a couple of days later, 539 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: as he's walking to school, he sees the guy who 540 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 3: actually shot and killed Felix Valentine, and he says he 541 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 3: knows he's the guy because he had the same pants 542 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: and jacket on, and he said to himself, this is 543 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 3: the guy who did it. It was a Jacques Rivera. 544 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 3: But he's twelve years old. He don't know what to do. 545 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: So Orlando knew what Felix knew, but none of this 546 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: mattered to Detective Cavera, So how does he handle this 547 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 2: eleven year old kid or mishandled however you want to 548 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: put it. 549 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: So now here we go with Detective Goavera telling him 550 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 3: that this is the guy we believe who killed your 551 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: sister's boyfriend's brother, and we need you to get this guy. 552 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 3: We need to get him off the street so he 553 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 3: doesn't kill nobody else. And Lando Lopez is like, you 554 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 3: don't understand, it's not him. He said, I seen the 555 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 3: real guy. This is not the guy. So Gevera proceeds 556 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 3: with saying, well, this is what Felix Valentine said. Solando Lopez. 557 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,239 Speaker 3: He says they weren't listening to him. He said, well, 558 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: if they're not going to listen to me, and this 559 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 3: is his testimon He said he proceeded to make the 560 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 3: identification of me knowing that it wasn't me. 561 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: So now the only witness in the case, Orlando Lopez, 562 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 2: he recanted on record, you got also electrics. He's standing 563 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: by this original identification that Felix made prior to his passing. 564 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: So all you really have to get around now is 565 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: whether Felix had changed his story prior to passing and 566 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 2: made a dying declaration to Guevera to somehow implicate you, 567 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: that is when and if he ever even spoke to Cavera. 568 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 3: So now my attorneys they find the doctor that was 569 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: taking care of Felix Valentine while he was set in 570 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 3: intensive care. The doctor said it was impossible for the 571 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: Felix Valenteer to identify anybody because at that stage he 572 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 3: had stipped into a coma. So very fabricated that whole 573 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: line of procedure. And when my lawyers asked for that lineup, 574 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: they said, what was these not a photos? Because when 575 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: you make an identification of somebody, you put that into evidence. 576 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: They could have produced the photos because it never took place. 577 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: So as this evidence is coming out, how is the 578 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: cook Cary State's attorney's office. How are they responding to 579 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: these allegations. 580 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 3: Darren O'Brien, who was a station's attorney, he offers me 581 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 3: a plea deal. My attorney, he came down to Stateville 582 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 3: to see me and she said, I know how you 583 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: feel about this, but I still have to bring it 584 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: to you. They offered you a plea deal. It's Wednesday, 585 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 3: you can be home by Friday. 586 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: Now you'd be surprised because a lot of people would 587 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: jump on this. I know people personally have jumped on this. Myself, 588 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: I wouldn't even have no talk of a plea bargain now. 589 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: I've also seen the state's attorneys when they're about to 590 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 2: lose one of these long protracted court battles with someone 591 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: locked up, start using continuance after continuance is almost like 592 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: a weapon of choice, not just to wear down the 593 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: resolve and get you to take a plea deal, but 594 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: even wave your right to file for a certificate innocence 595 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: and not come after them with any type of civil 596 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: lif I built you, you know, knowing like this is 597 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 2: out their playbook, this is what they do. They tried 598 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: to wear you down. Were you tempted at all take 599 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: the plea. 600 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: Deal, Absolutely not, because my heart was for the victim's family, 601 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 3: and that's the guy on the street. What price would 602 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: I pay for my freedom? So mint is something that 603 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 3: I didn't do. And to lie to this victor's family 604 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 3: and tell them, yeah, I killed your son, absolutely not. 605 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: I said, I got twenty plus years left. If I 606 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 3: have to go back to do this, I'd be more 607 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 3: than happy to go back to do it with it 608 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: not only a clear conscience, but with a happy heart. 609 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: So from the time they brought you the plete deal, 610 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: how much longer before you're actually in court on the hearing? 611 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: It was about six months and then January twenty eleven, 612 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: Judge Clothes retired and passed away. You know the station 613 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: a China said well, we're going to keep it here 614 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 3: in Cot County, and they appointed me a judge which 615 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: was near Walsh who just came out of the Statue 616 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 3: Attorney's office. Lando Lopez came in to testify and his 617 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 3: testimony was, why mad to me is that I'm here 618 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: today the state that that man and he pointed right 619 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 3: at me. Jacques Vera was not the man who shoot 620 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 3: and killed Phoenix Vanentin back in nineteen eighty eight. And 621 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: I was like, Colle lujah. 622 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: So Judge nearro Wash ruled that Lopez's recantation was credible, 623 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: stating that the only reason the court sees for this 624 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 2: recantation now is a desire to correct a mistake. And 625 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 2: she ordered a new trial for you. And then October fourth, 626 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: twenty eleven, could Carrie. Prosecutors announced that they did not 627 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: intend to proceed on new trial and dismiss all charges. 628 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: And you were freed that day. Take me to that moment. 629 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 3: Oh my gun, as I finally said. And it took 630 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 3: this long to do all this, twenty three years man. 631 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: So you were awarded a certificate of innocence, and you 632 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: were awarded two hundred and eight thousand dollars in state compensation. 633 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: And that same year you filed a lawsuit against Chicago 634 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 2: Police detective Gavera and others for bearing evidence and pressuing 635 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 2: witnesses that falsely identify you. In June twenty eighteen, you 636 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: were awarded over seventeen million. Yes, that is amazing. How 637 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: do you look back on this? 638 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: I mean, for me, it's water under the bridge, although 639 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 3: it does still affect me in some ways. 640 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: Right, you're fifty six. Now this is a long ordeal. 641 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm just glad to be home with my friends, 642 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 3: most appointly my kids, which devastated our relationship being away 643 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: from them. My daughter, she was six months old. She 644 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: don't even know who I am. Well. My boys, on 645 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 3: the other hand, is different, but we still have issues. 646 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 3: We're working at them, trying to be a family. I'm 647 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 3: just grateful for it, only because I don't really need nothing, Patrick. 648 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: I try to help other people, and that's what I'm doing. 649 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 3: I'm in restorative justice work now. I accept calls for 650 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: guys from the prisons, anything they might need, try to 651 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 3: hook them up with attorneys or put them involved with 652 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 3: rafakavicious centers. I just try to do my part. You know. 653 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 3: I know that I left behind a lot of good 654 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 3: brothers who are innocent, and a lot of them who 655 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: said they're guilty but they have remorse. But I'm not 656 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 3: going to leave them there just like that. 657 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 2: So if you could get the listeners to help out, 658 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: to join in, what would you implore them to do. 659 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 3: There's so many rawful conviction centers, the Exoneration Project, the 660 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: Innocence Project in New York, the Center Ralfa Convictions, the 661 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 3: Bloom Legal Clanic Kid in Chicago definitely could use some support. 662 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: Some of its finance, some of it's just volunteer works. 663 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 3: So many innocence projects that could be supported need attorneys 664 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: to volunteer their time pro bono investigators, but help is 665 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 3: always needed. 666 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: We'll have links in the bio and now we go 667 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 2: to the closing portion of our show. I want to 668 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 2: thank the listeners and I want to thank Jason Flam 669 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 2: for having me. I want to keep the tradition going. 670 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 2: I want allow Jack Rivera have the last word. So 671 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to turn my mic off, turn my headphones up, 672 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: and let you just say your thing. 673 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 3: Don't ever give up, hope man. And that's not only 674 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 3: done with Rafael convictions. That's dealing with everyday life. God 675 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 3: is a great God, and he loves us and he 676 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 3: cares about us. A lot of people don't realize that. 677 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 3: I didn't realize that. I'm letting you know there is 678 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 3: a God and he delivered me from an eighty years 679 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 3: sentence on a ronful conviction. I'm a part of a 680 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 3: program called Innocent Demand Justice, just the families of loved 681 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 3: ones are incarcrated wrongfully, and we try to show support 682 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 3: any way that we can either by marches, protests, is 683 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 3: going to court hearings. We know how hard it is 684 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 3: for loved ones. Anything could happen in prison and they're 685 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 3: scared for their loved ones. Yeah, don't ever give up hope, 686 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 3: keep hope alive. 687 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to 688 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn, 689 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music 690 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 691 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 692 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and 693 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava 694 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: for Good. On all three platforms. You can also follow 695 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Flam. 696 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts 697 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one