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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcast.

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Speaker 1: witchcraft is told by an actual practicing which start listening

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Speaker 1: now by heading over to Coast to Coast a m

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Speaker 1: dot com at signing up for Coast Insider. Now here's

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Speaker 1: a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeart Radio

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Snorey with you.

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Speaker 1: Charles Cologne is a Catholic journalist freelance writer. A former

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Speaker 1: contributing editor for the National Catholic Register, has written for

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Speaker 1: several other journals as well. He's done commentary on the

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Speaker 1: Last Papal Funeral and Conclave for ABC, Fox, the BBC.

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Speaker 1: He attended the New Mexico Military Institute in Roswell, New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and he was known in his known such figures as

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Speaker 1: James Francis Cardinal McIntyre, the former Archbishop of law So Angeles,

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Speaker 1: whom Charles Berlitz, by the way claimed saw the wrecked

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Speaker 1: Roswell Saucer. Great story there the fame television psychic Chriswell

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Speaker 1: and father Malichi Martin, one of our long time guests

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Speaker 1: with Art a long time ago. In October of two

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Speaker 1: thousand five, Charles was named a Night Commander of St.

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Speaker 1: Sylvester by the Vatican. And here he is on coast

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Speaker 1: to coast. His new work is called The Catholic Quest

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Speaker 1: for the Holy Grail. We're going to talk with him

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Speaker 1: about that, demons, exorcisms, you name it, Charles. We've got

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Speaker 1: it all tonight with you. Yeah, I do my best.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. Have you been well? Pretty good?

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Speaker 1: Pretty good. It's been been an exciting time since we

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Speaker 1: spoke last and you know, a lot of news, a

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Speaker 1: lot of changes in the church, a lot of changes

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Speaker 1: in the state. Oh absolutely, now, a lot of controversy

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Speaker 1: lately over the Pope saying that there is no hell,

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Speaker 1: and then the Vatican kind of backtracked a little bit

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Speaker 1: and said no, no, no, he didn't say that. What's

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Speaker 1: the etist on that? Well, then he shortly after that

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Speaker 1: he made a point of preaching a sermon about Hell,

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Speaker 1: and he had preached several other sermons about Hell prior

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Speaker 1: to this. So the only thing I can suppose is

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Speaker 1: that on the one hand, the fellow with whom he

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Speaker 1: gave to whom he gave the interview is a nine

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Speaker 1: year old who doesn't take notes. Um, But by the

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Speaker 1: same token, he keeps on going back to him. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he likes the guy, right, I guess he likes him.

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Speaker 1: But whenever he goes back he uh, the fellow quotes

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Speaker 1: him is saying something or other, and then they'll turn

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Speaker 1: around and say, no, he didn't really say it. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I wasn't sitting

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Speaker 1: down with the two of them, so I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you what really went on. Okay, the story that I've

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Speaker 1: just had about a Catholic priest, actually he's a priest,

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Speaker 1: a Mexican priest based in Switzerland. He talks about the

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Speaker 1: need for performing more exorcisms and that there's a demand

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Speaker 1: for more exorcists. It's on the rise. This must be

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Speaker 1: real stuff. Huh yep, it certainly is. I UM. I

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Speaker 1: was privileged to know the uh well, one of the

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Speaker 1: retired exorcists of this arch diocese when he was alive

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Speaker 1: um and Um. He was from Sri Lanka, a native

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Speaker 1: of Sri Lanka, and he said that one of the

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Speaker 1: things that struck him then it was how few exorcisms

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Speaker 1: that were here compared to his native country, which he

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Speaker 1: attributed to the various sorts of religions they practice over there.

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Speaker 1: But as you know, are we have become less and

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Speaker 1: less uh should we say, Christian oriented in the West,

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Speaker 1: And as we have, exorcisms have gone up more closely

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Speaker 1: approaching the levels in other countries. You say, are these

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Speaker 1: people who the exorcisms are being performed on Charles, are

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Speaker 1: they mentally ill or are they truly possessed by demons? Well,

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Speaker 1: the thing is that the church is very reluctant to

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Speaker 1: perform an exorcism, uh, precisely for fear that someone might

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Speaker 1: be mentally ill. So the criteria they have before the

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Speaker 1: local dioceses will permit an exorcism are very stringent. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They've got to be examined by psychiatrists. They have to

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Speaker 1: exhibit what's called the preternatural uh symptoms, In other words,

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Speaker 1: the knowledge of languages they couldn't possibly have known, um,

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Speaker 1: physical damage to them from coming into contact with only objects,

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Speaker 1: there are a whole number of things. In other words,

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Speaker 1: they the diocese has to be satisfied that they are

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Speaker 1: objectively possessed by an external intelligence um, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: simply mentally ill. The Church does not see this as

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Speaker 1: an alternative to psychiatric treatment, not at all. M hm.

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Speaker 1: So these priests who perform exorcisms turtles, how are they

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Speaker 1: trained to do this? Well, that's an interesting question. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It used to be very much a in house diasses

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Speaker 1: and sort of thing. Usually they don't select priests whom

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Speaker 1: are known for their piety but also for sort of

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Speaker 1: a lack of imagination. If you see what I mean.

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Speaker 1: You don't want a priest who's given to flights of fancy.

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Speaker 1: You want someone was very very down to worth. And

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Speaker 1: they've got to be physically fairly strong because before under

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Speaker 1: operroom conditions, before they can perform an exorcism, they have

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Speaker 1: to undergo a long period of fasting on bread and

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Speaker 1: water called the black fast. Um. This is very very

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Speaker 1: important for the the exorcist to do. Uh. So you

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Speaker 1: want someone, as I say, it was fairly physically strong,

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Speaker 1: not given to imaginative flights of fancying so and very

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Speaker 1: devout um someone approaching the coury dar said John Vienne,

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Speaker 1: who was renowned for this sort of thing and was

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Speaker 1: at the same time were very much a mystic in

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Speaker 1: his way. He was a very very down to earth individual.

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Speaker 1: The last thing you need when dealing with the preternatural

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Speaker 1: is somebody with a great imagination. The priests who were

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Speaker 1: involved in the exorcist case that we all know from

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Speaker 1: the movie of the little Boy from Baltimore who ended

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Speaker 1: up in St. Louis where I am right now by

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Speaker 1: the White Charles, tell me, were they well schooled? Do

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Speaker 1: you know? Did you study that case somewhat? And yes,

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Speaker 1: they were, Um, the I think the the first priests

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Speaker 1: who were called in on it, we're not because of

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Speaker 1: course they you know, there was a simply priests where

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Speaker 1: consider who were called out in the immediate But the

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Speaker 1: folks that did the major part of the business, they

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Speaker 1: they knew what they were dealing with. And usually you see,

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Speaker 1: the thing about about most exorcisms is that they're really

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Speaker 1: I put it, they're not what would call quite as

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Speaker 1: exciting as the as the movie, although never is no.

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Speaker 1: Although having said that, though they do have certain well

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Speaker 1: I give an example, and this is something that the

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Speaker 1: late Father Martin probably was most heavily affected by when

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Speaker 1: he was witnessing them. If one of the witnesses, because

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Speaker 1: I should point out that every exorcism we wanted a

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Speaker 1: number of non clerical, non family witnesses, it's a very

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Speaker 1: important part of the process. However, if any of the

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Speaker 1: witnesses have mortal sins on their conscience that they haven't confessed,

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Speaker 1: very very often the demon will happily tell everyone what

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Speaker 1: they are. Explain. For instance, if someone has been an

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Speaker 1: adulterer or or whatever you like, hasn't gone a confession

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Speaker 1: about it and is along for the ride as a witness,

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Speaker 1: the possessed person will very very very likely to call

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Speaker 1: out the adultery and as the exor system my acquaintance

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Speaker 1: put it to me, this can be very embarrassing. What

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Speaker 1: makes this demon leave the human being exorcism? Ultimately, it's

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Speaker 1: the it's the power of God directed directly directed at

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Speaker 1: the demon. Uh the prayers and the blessings of the

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Speaker 1: of the right of exorcism, very they're very very powerful

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Speaker 1: if you get the chance to read them. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: in the end, the devil must give away mound he

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Speaker 1: fights and a lot of the Wars and White Wars.

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Speaker 1: Why is it longer in this case and than that one.

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Speaker 1: Why does he seem easily defeated with one person another

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Speaker 1: person who takes much longer. There are all sorts of

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Speaker 1: factors that we simply don't know. We know the prayers work,

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Speaker 1: we know that a certain procedure works, we do it,

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Speaker 1: it happens. But beyond that, there's a lot we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know. Well, that's a good point too. But confronted

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Speaker 1: by one of these demons, I mean, are they out

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Speaker 1: to kill the individual that they're possessing? What do they want? Well, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: what they want is a damnation of that individual and

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Speaker 1: everybody else around him. They want all of mankind to

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Speaker 1: share their ruin. They want us all to spend eternity

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Speaker 1: in hell with them, absolutely miserable in ways that you

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Speaker 1: and I can't begin to imagine. We probably don't want

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Speaker 1: to imagine. No, probably not. I don't tell me about

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Speaker 1: the devil, Charles, what do you think The devil is

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Speaker 1: not a very nice person? Uh? No, he uh is

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Speaker 1: the chief of the fallen angels. He was perhaps the

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Speaker 1: brightest and best of God's creation, and he took pride

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Speaker 1: in himself and refused at the end of the day

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Speaker 1: to obey God. And you're convinced he exists absolutely to

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Speaker 1: destroy us, isn't it yep? And he delights in our

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Speaker 1: pain and our suffering and our confusion as a foretaste

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Speaker 1: of what he hopes they'll have for eternity. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast a m. Every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more