WEBVTT - AfroTech 2023, ChatGPT, and Threads w/ Morgan DeBaun 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:03.559 I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech. Dreen Money. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:08.480 Morgan Debonne is a serial entrepreneur, executive, and corporate advisor. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:10.560 She's foundering CEO at Blavity, Inc. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.840 The leading digital media company for black culture and millennials. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.599 It's on the Afro Tech, Glavity News twenty one to ninety, Travel, Noir, Shadow. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:19.600 And Act, and Blavity TV. 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.400 She's an advisor in influential global brands and companies including Pepsi, Co, 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.560 American Airlines, Cees, and other businesses. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:29.280 She's also an Angel investor. 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.519 A lot of people, including myself, have been advocating in 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.600 recent years that things like coding and engineering should be 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.560 required for students in the elementary and high school level, 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.600 right alongside foreign languages, as they might provide for long 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.920 term stability and employment. But shocking to many major tech 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.720 companies are laying people off, even their engineering departments. How 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:50.839 should we be looking at this? 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.720 We're certainly going through a shift in how companies were 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.600 built in the last ten years would be very different 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.240 than how the next ten years of companies will be built, 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:05.760 and we're seeing companies recalibrate towards that future. What we 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.199 also know is that people who are getting laid off, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.720 particularly those with technical roles, are typically finding a job 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.560 within thirty days. So it's a bit of a shift. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:21.040 What we're hearing from companies is that, look like building 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.520 a product takes a lot of time, and it takes 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.800 a lot of team and manpower and woman power people power, right, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.640 and what it takes to maintain something is oftentimes less 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.280 or requires different skills. And so when we were in 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.840 a high growth period of time in the economy, and 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.039 for a lot of these big tech companies, they needed 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.240 as many people as possible, they needed bodies so that 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.080 they could actually scale their businesses. And then as things 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.800 slowed down, they said, look, we actually can be more 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.880 efficient and just operate as opposed to being in this 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.080 high growth phase. At the same time, there's other companies 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.200 like AI companies, where they need to grow as fast 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.360 as possible right now. So we're just seeing a shift 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.680 in the labor market get particularly for technical talent. Now, 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.680 I think non technical talent is having a bit of 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.400 a tougher time because there's all these other roles that 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.320 support big tech companies. Right You've got recruiters, you've got 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.560 marketing folks, you've got people in people, operations, all of 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:22.960 the complementary roles that help build an incredible company, and 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.080 that's where we're seeing people be slower to hire, slower 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.840 to find new jobs, and see a bit of a 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.560 recalibration there. So you know, I think tech companies are 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.760 still always going to be one of the fastest ways 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.680 for professionals to grow wealth because you don't just get 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.359 paid your salary. You also get paid typically stop stock options, 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.480 and the salary bands are typically higher than a non 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.079 tech company, but it doesn't come without some risk. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:52.640 So one of the things I love talking to you 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.360 about is this balance between big business and small business 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:56.720 because you're one of the few people I know who 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.160 can talk just as educated and smartly about small all 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.919 businesses and lifestyle companies. And I know a lot of 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.800 small business owners who are rethinking how they hire, you know, 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.520 outsource their social media, you know, management and etc. Because 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:12.280 you can now. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.639 Use tools like chat GPT to write. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.480 Five, ten, twenty versions of a caption for you and 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.840 you just need the image now to go alongside of it. 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.239 So what do you think for those people who may 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.680 not be engineers, but they were the tech person in 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:26.600 the room who knew. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.640 How to use the tech. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.280 What what are some of the things that you think 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.360 they should be thinking about, and how to continue to 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.720 provide value and continue to support themselves when there's so 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.480 many other things. Now I got content for the whole week. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.320 You know, I think that there's always evolutions and technology. 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:44.880 I mean, think about it. Back when we grew up, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.840 you had to go to the library, and what did 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:48.840 you have to do. You had to go to the library. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.000 You got to go get these little cars, all the 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.040 car that you need, but you got to get it 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:54.880 to the librarian. You know, you got to do all 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:56.520 these things. Now you're going to the library. You go 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.600 to a computer and you say this is what I need, right, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.360 and it tells you where it's at. And I haven't 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:02.680 been to the library for a couple of years. It 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.480 may even be easier than that these days. So I 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:12.880 don't view artificial intelligence, and most specifically generative artificial intelligence right. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.800 AI has been around for a very long time. Machine 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.200 learning has been around for a very long time. What's 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:24.600 new is the generative AI. And I don't view that 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.680 as a risk to people's ability to get work done. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.720 I view it as an enabler for more efficiency. Right, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.680 the same twenty minutes that it would take you to 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.960 go to the card catalog, now it takes you a 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.120 minute and a half on the computer. That gives you 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.760 more time to find out what books you want read 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.719 the books, et cetera. So how can you leverage your 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.920 brain to use these tools to help make your life easier. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.840 I read a number that said that only fourteen percent 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.560 of the country has actually ever used chat GPT. So 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.040 if you're listening to this right now and you have 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.080 used chat GPT, if you're using it as a part 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.120 of your daily life already, you're like light years ahead 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.200 of everybody else. So really, you can't lose. You just 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.960 need to continue to learn how you can incorporate it 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.960 into the work that you're doing every single day, in 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.480 the task that you're doing, so you have more time 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.760 to spend with your family, more time to get high 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.520 value work done, more time to rest. Right, there's so 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:20.440 many benefits to it. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.040 You just said something that sparked my interest because we're 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.880 still super early, and I don't think people who are 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.280 not living this every day realize that there's so much 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.760 of the world who still hasn't even ever tried chat GPT. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:38.240 Yeah, completely. I think it's around thirty percent of Americans 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.799 have heard of it, right, maybe thirty to forty percent. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.920 The Pew Research Center just put out a report on it, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.800 but actually try it, use it, create an account, put 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.560 in a prompt. You know. That's that's less than half 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:52.760 of that. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.040 And so when I look back at that's all went 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.240 back to the first episode of Black Tech, Green Money, 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.200 and you were the first us on this three years ago, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.440 and we had conversations about afro tech. And when you 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.440 look back at what you intended afro tech to be 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.040 when you first got the idea for it, at the time, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.240 there was no place we really saw ourselves. There was 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.000 no room that we could gather in. 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.480 And you know, have this convening of the annual delegation. 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.120 Right of black tech talent in the country. Help, how 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.800 do you see afro tech continuing to evolve as we 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.279 do grow in numbers in this industry, in an industry 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:31.440 that use technology. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.000 You know, afro tech has definitely become a festival all 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:37.920 on its own. I'm really proud of how far we've 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.599 come from the days when we were like four hundred 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.080 and fifty people in the Westfield mall and downtown San Francisco, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.480 people are always like no, like, no legit. Like we 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.560 were in the mall, you know, trying to get everybody 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:51.680 in and people were trying to sneak in, and it was, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.440 you know, a beautiful moment of community. And now we'll 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.520 be back and often this year with anywhere between twenty 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.440 thousand people plus, all techies, innovators, people who have an 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.000 interest in figuring out how they can leverage the digital 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.320 revolution to their own benefit, for their communities, for their families, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.440 for their own knowledge, for their own contribution to society. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.000 So I'm proud that we've been able to create this 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.520 mass community, not just for the event that happens every year, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.280 but also our regional events now that we have we 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:26.000 have happy hours all over the country, New Orleans, New York, Seattle. 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.560 We've got hundreds of thousands of people reading our website 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.320 every single day learning about new technologies and new executives 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.280 who are doing incredible work. So I'm proud that the 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.720 young version of me, the black girl in Saint Louis 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.840 that was twenty years old trying to figure out what 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.160 I wanted to do with my life, would be able 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.680 to go to a site like afrotech now and have 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.480 one hundred thousand different options of what it could look 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.360 like to be a part of this tech ecosystem, as 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.720 opposed to what I saw, which was one article every 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.960 to nine months about somebody black doing something interesting in tech. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.800 So I'm really hopeful for the future of our Black 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.280 community at large. And I mean it's getting so big well, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.720 I can barely even keep trapping stuff. Like I see 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.360 new apps, new founders raising money every day, and I'm like, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.040 oh man, you better go. I'm so proud of everybody. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.440 You know, across the country, there's this movement against the 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.240 EI work, you know, Affirmative Action just being struck down recently. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.480 A lot of states are you know, put putting up board, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.360 putting up walls that don't allow the e I work 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.520 to thrive in et cetera. And with the work afrotech 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.320 is done to create to help us see ourselves number 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.199 one in these spaces, I want to get your thoughts 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.679 on how effective that work of creating spaces for us 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.079 has been with getting us hired. 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:48.839 In places that we were already qualified for. 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.199 But we're getting the opportunities to work in versus in 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.400 the large part this is the view I come from. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.920 But I realized the value of both perspectives is. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.640 Creating our own tables, you know. So it's I'm not 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.959 of the mind to just beat down the walls to 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.520 create opportunities at a table that doesn't. 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:05.800 Want me there. 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.600 I want to create my own tables, and I want 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.400 to get your thoughts on how do we think about 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:10.920 these things? 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.959 You know, I believe that people of color in this 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.559 country are the new majority. So there of course is 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.600 going to be a backlash from people who are about 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.840 to be the new minority at trying to keep us 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.000 slow our growth as much as possible. And currently they 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.000 have the systems and the tools and the infrastructure to 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:31.880 be able to do that because they're the people in power, 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.040 and they have, you know, hundreds of years centuries ahead 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.719 of us to be able to maintain that power. But 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.000 we're catching up faster than they can slow us down. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.880 You know. I believe that I'm a hopeful pragmatist in 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.960 a lot of ways, and I believe that our communities, 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.560 people of color, you know, even the LGBT community, I mean, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.199 anyone who is deemed a minority in this country is 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.000 gaining power, which is one of theations for the backlash. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.040 It's one of the reasons why they're trying to tighten 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:08.000 controls on people's uteruses and trying to say that no, 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.120 you guys are equal now, you don't need these special treatments, right, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.959 And it's just it's not true. They're wrong, But I 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.520 believe it's a result of the fact that we're gaining 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.440 traction here. So I think that all progress doesn't come 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.600 without tension. And the key is, to your point, stay 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:29.800 focused and keep fighting the problem, not the people, because 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.560 that's going to be ultimately what continues to allow us 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.800 to push forward. And I agree with you. I mean, 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.280 we're seeing now We've always had ideas about what we 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.280 want to do in the future, how we want black 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.520 folks to have our own channels of distribution, our own networks, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.319 have our own financial systems, you know, have our own 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.040 venture capitalists, and you're seeing it. Black vcs, even though 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.000 they're having a tough time, still have never raised more 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.800 money than what we've raised. Black founders, even though we're 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.000 having a tough time, collectively, we have never had as 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.960 much assets as we we have had in the last 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.679 couple of years. You know, even startups business owners. The 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.600 twenty twenty huge influx of cash that went into black 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.679 folks hands. Uh, you know that stuff was put to 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.599 good use and a lot of organizations that I know, so, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.719 you know, even the NAACP like their budget three x 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.599 and since George Floyd's murder, but that's going to go 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.640 a long way for us as a people, as a community. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.839 I want to talk about social media. I'm curious, well, 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.080 your perspective on Spill and Threads and all the things 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.600 going out. What do you think do you think's going 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:36.959 to make it? 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:38.880 Also, I was going to ask you about this because 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.080 I you know, I wasn't gonna name any the Bible. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:42.760 I'm like, I was gonna let you name them if 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.640 you wanted to, because you know, I'm on Threads. 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:45.720 We're on a podcast. 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.400 Listen, this is what it is. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.959 And so it's so interesting to me because I was 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.640 super excited, and I to say, I'm not excited anymore 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.280 about Spill because I think it has an interesting lane. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.440 I think the lane one of one of the things 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.360 I've value and businesses is like valuing niche and I 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.240 think that that's okay. And this is actually something I 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.120 learned from you It's like you don't have to be 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.640 striving to be this humongous unicorn in the CE. You 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.319 can have a very thriving, good company, growing company, and 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.000 still be in the realm of Silicon Valley a small 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.360 lifestyle theme, and lifestyle doesn't necessarily mean you're doing two million. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.319 It can mean you're doing twenty it can mean you're 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:25.199 doing thirty million. 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:25.559 Dollars a year. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.480 And you were actually somebody on this podcast who helped reframe. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:29.920 My thinking on that. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.640 And so I feel like Spill even fan base in 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.080 a way, like they have this lane that if they 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:40.719 can stay authentic to that, there could be opportunity there. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:45.120 I think it's harder now when you have an app 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.920 that can come out like Threads, that automatically has your 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.040 population and automatically you come into the gate with followers, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.560 it's really hard to compete with that, and you don't 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.760 have to go build an audience. 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.640 Yeah. Yeah. My recommendation to the Spill founders is that 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:02.640 they don't try to compete with Twitter, and they don't 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.559 try to compete with Threads. You know, you build for 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:11.080 your target demographic of the black community, the talkative, conversational 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.800 black community, and figure out how you can uniquely solve 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.120 our problems. Because thread to your point, is going to 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:24.280 be the size of Twitter on this trajectory in the 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.240 next less than a year, right, and so there's going 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:28.640 to be just a lot of noise, just like there 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.800 is on Twitter already, just like there is on Instagram. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.319 And Meta is one of the biggest companies in the world. 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.240 They're going to continue to be incentivized to build for 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.839 the majority and the people who are going to be 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.160 advertisers at the end of the day, and so at 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.840 some point we will be secondary to their priority. I mean, 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:52.959 I think they did a great job seeding it. I 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.640 know a lot of people who worked on the threads 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.160 app that are internal at Meta, and they have black 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.360 employees who are involved in building this so that they 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:06.400 had an inclusive team. But you can already see it's 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.280 just going to be Instagram. But with words, yeah, you know, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.920 it's not gonna be It's not even like actually gonna 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.600 be how Twitter was, where you've got to meet new 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.760 people and get in different interest groups and kind of 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.520 dig deep into different conversations. I don't think that's what's 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:20.800 going to happen. I think it's just going to be 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.960 the same people you've all on Instagram. We've our follow 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:27.000 up threads, and people are gonna be pontificating and using 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.560 chat GPT like they do on LinkedIn right now, and 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.880 it's just going to be this like weird LinkedIn hybrid 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:34.960 with Instagram. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.840 So what do you say to founders who are out 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.880 raising money? And like, if the Spill guys were raising 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.200 money today, I'm imagine it'd be a lot harder to do. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.200 That versus months ago when they did it. 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.280 It's but we always get caught up in this trap 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.240 of well, how do you compete with the thing that's 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.200 out there? How do you create your mote, how do 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.200 you create your authentic lean to where you can grow, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.640 especially if you're taking outside capital. How do you prove 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.360 to people that you can survive in a water that 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:05.200 Twitter exists in, that thread now exists in If I'm spilled, Yeah. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.680 I mean my perspective is that Spill has an opportunity 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.520 to build a community, and they can do something that 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.800 Clubhouse messed up on, right, which is to build a 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:19.240 community that is self sustaining, right, And I recommend that 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.080 they building a revenue stream immediately. Don't go the role 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:27.160 of trying to get one hundred million user names and 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.360 then be AD supported, because that's one of the reasons 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:30.920 why Twitter is having a tough time, and that's one 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.800 of the reasons the Reddit's having a tough time. It's 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.920 because they're all ads supported. Now fan Base, I mean, 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.600 I do feel bad for fan Base a little bit 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.680 right at wrong time. You know, if fan Base came 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.720 out this year or last month and was able to 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.040 get wrapped up in the PR campaigns of Twitter and Threads, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.320 they could be just as successful. It's a very different build, 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.880 Like it's a different solution to the same problem. But 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.680 my recommendation, at least fan Base is not AD supported, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.400 I guess, is my point, right, Like, I think it's 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.320 smart to have a different type of business model behind 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.880 the app, because if you're going to be ad supported, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.320 then you have to go for scale, which is going 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.680 to put you up against the. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.480 Yeah, this brings up an interesting conversation I've been I've 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.200 had on this podcast several over the last episodes. Is 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.880 this idea of being mission driven versus opportunistic. And even 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.320 with the guys from the Slim and Huskies I talked 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.840 about this with and so like they didn't grow up 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.320 loving pizza, you know, right, But they found an opportunity 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.240 to do something, and not often do we get an 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.960 opportunity just to be opportunistic. But we were told you 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:42.520 have to have a mission and you have to have 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:44.360 a like you know, you're trying to make a change 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.440 in the world. And I think both things are valuable. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:48.800 Like when I shop at Target, I'm not shopping at 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.280 Target because I believe in Target's mission. They happen to 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:56.320 have what I need. But as black exactly but too 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.200 but so often we are put in the position of like, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.080 you have to believe in something and talk about your 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.639 mission and your values and is that always fair or 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.080 can we just be opportunistic? 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.840 Ooh, I mean you're talking to somebody who I believe 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.600 in both for sure. I mean I think that if 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.800 you only build things for money, it won't work. Like 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.600 you have to be motivated by more than just money. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.320 You know, there's cheaper, faster ways to make money in 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.440 this world than to build an app, or to try 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.440 to build a huge social network or black community, or 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.840 try to build a media company for black millennials. Right like, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.280 so so no, I think you've got to be you've 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.800 got to have some sort of purpose driven reason to 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.160 be successful at scale. I'm sure there's outliers. I'm sure 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.320 there's people who don't give a shit and build companies, 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.520 huge companies. But I think that most people who are 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.120 successful have some other motivator other than money. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.800 So let's put Blavity in this conversation, because Blavity is, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.480 you know, the biggest black platform on the internet. You know, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.080 kudos to the entire team for achieving what we've achieved. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.600 And I was, I was just reading Debora Le's book, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.439 I Am Debora Lee Is she was describing how bet 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.160 grew and and because of the growth that they had 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.560 in their or mid nineties, you know, late nineties, a 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.560 whole bunch of other opportunities presented themselves. They were chasing 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.919 a clothing line at once, they wanted to do magazines 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:28.040 and all these different things and original content even and 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.879 so as Blavity continues to grow and be bigger and 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.359 more successful and bring on more talented people, how do 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.959 those how do you think about those opportunities for Blavity 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.520 to dip its toe into other verticals that allow it 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.240 to be more than just a publisher in that way. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.159 Yeah, I mean, we have a three year vision for 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.199 the company that I socialized and collaborated on with our 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:56.440 executive leadership team. Because to your point, there's always more. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.760 When you are serving an underserved community that has such 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.600 a huge impact, like black culture, then you could do anything. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.720 I could do a clothing line, we could have a 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.359 book club, we could have a we could buy a 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.280 little town and make a little Black adobia. But we 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.480 can do whatever we want, right, So the question is 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.000 how do you evaluate that stuff? And to me, you 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.760 got to have a really clear mission envision. Currently we're 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.680 on a pathway to get to one hundred million in revenue, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.680 you know, that's our business target and pretty soon, right 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.520 And the reason why we're picking that number is partially 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.160 because we believe that's a number for freedom. I want 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.200 to make sure that this company is lives beyond me, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.359 that it's an institution that is an advocate and a 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.840 distribution channel for people who are doing interesting things and 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.800 helpful things for underserved voices in this country, whether that's 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.719 talent acquisition and building out our new product, talent Infusion, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.600 which helps companies hire and recruit black talent and have 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:03.119 really awesome talent pools, or it's Home and Texture, our 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.480 new brand that focuses on inter your design and helping 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.919 millennials explore if home buying is the right experience for them, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:10.960 or how they want to decorate, or what they're going 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:12.879 to do with their pets and their kids rooms and 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.080 all these types of things. You know, I want to 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.360 make sure that we're there at every life cycle at 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.200 the same time. To your point, like, it's really critical 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.960 to not get distracted, and that getting distracted is not 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.560 mean we don't test stuff. I can give you one 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.640 hundred things if we have tested that that worked out. 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:34.400