Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech. Dreen Money.
Speaker 2: Morgan Debonne is a serial entrepreneur, executive, and corporate advisor.
Speaker 1: She's foundering CEO at Blavity, Inc.
Speaker 2: The leading digital media company for black culture and millennials.
Speaker 2: It's on the Afro Tech, Glavity News twenty one to ninety, Travel, Noir, Shadow.
Speaker 1: And Act, and Blavity TV.
Speaker 2: She's an advisor in influential global brands and companies including Pepsi, Co,
Speaker 2: American Airlines, Cees, and other businesses.
Speaker 1: She's also an Angel investor.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, including myself, have been advocating in
Speaker 2: recent years that things like coding and engineering should be
Speaker 2: required for students in the elementary and high school level,
Speaker 2: right alongside foreign languages, as they might provide for long
Speaker 2: term stability and employment. But shocking to many major tech
Speaker 2: companies are laying people off, even their engineering departments. How
Speaker 2: should we be looking at this?
Speaker 3: We're certainly going through a shift in how companies were
Speaker 3: built in the last ten years would be very different
Speaker 3: than how the next ten years of companies will be built,
Speaker 3: and we're seeing companies recalibrate towards that future. What we
Speaker 3: also know is that people who are getting laid off,
Speaker 3: particularly those with technical roles, are typically finding a job
Speaker 3: within thirty days. So it's a bit of a shift.
Speaker 3: What we're hearing from companies is that, look like building
Speaker 3: a product takes a lot of time, and it takes
Speaker 3: a lot of team and manpower and woman power people power, right,
Speaker 3: and what it takes to maintain something is oftentimes less
Speaker 3: or requires different skills. And so when we were in
Speaker 3: a high growth period of time in the economy, and
Speaker 3: for a lot of these big tech companies, they needed
Speaker 3: as many people as possible, they needed bodies so that
Speaker 3: they could actually scale their businesses. And then as things
Speaker 3: slowed down, they said, look, we actually can be more
Speaker 3: efficient and just operate as opposed to being in this
Speaker 3: high growth phase. At the same time, there's other companies
Speaker 3: like AI companies, where they need to grow as fast
Speaker 3: as possible right now. So we're just seeing a shift
Speaker 3: in the labor market get particularly for technical talent. Now,
Speaker 3: I think non technical talent is having a bit of
Speaker 3: a tougher time because there's all these other roles that
Speaker 3: support big tech companies. Right You've got recruiters, you've got
Speaker 3: marketing folks, you've got people in people, operations, all of
Speaker 3: the complementary roles that help build an incredible company, and
Speaker 3: that's where we're seeing people be slower to hire, slower
Speaker 3: to find new jobs, and see a bit of a
Speaker 3: recalibration there. So you know, I think tech companies are
Speaker 3: still always going to be one of the fastest ways
Speaker 3: for professionals to grow wealth because you don't just get
Speaker 3: paid your salary. You also get paid typically stop stock options,
Speaker 3: and the salary bands are typically higher than a non
Speaker 3: tech company, but it doesn't come without some risk.
Speaker 2: So one of the things I love talking to you
Speaker 2: about is this balance between big business and small business
Speaker 2: because you're one of the few people I know who
Speaker 2: can talk just as educated and smartly about small all
Speaker 2: businesses and lifestyle companies. And I know a lot of
Speaker 2: small business owners who are rethinking how they hire, you know,
Speaker 2: outsource their social media, you know, management and etc. Because
Speaker 2: you can now.
Speaker 1: Use tools like chat GPT to write.
Speaker 2: Five, ten, twenty versions of a caption for you and
Speaker 2: you just need the image now to go alongside of it.
Speaker 2: So what do you think for those people who may
Speaker 2: not be engineers, but they were the tech person in
Speaker 2: the room who knew.
Speaker 1: How to use the tech.
Speaker 2: What what are some of the things that you think
Speaker 2: they should be thinking about, and how to continue to
Speaker 2: provide value and continue to support themselves when there's so
Speaker 2: many other things. Now I got content for the whole week.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that there's always evolutions and technology.
Speaker 3: I mean, think about it. Back when we grew up,
Speaker 3: you had to go to the library, and what did
Speaker 3: you have to do. You had to go to the library.
Speaker 3: You got to go get these little cars, all the
Speaker 3: car that you need, but you got to get it
Speaker 3: to the librarian. You know, you got to do all
Speaker 3: these things. Now you're going to the library. You go
Speaker 3: to a computer and you say this is what I need, right,
Speaker 3: and it tells you where it's at. And I haven't
Speaker 3: been to the library for a couple of years. It
Speaker 3: may even be easier than that these days. So I
Speaker 3: don't view artificial intelligence, and most specifically generative artificial intelligence right.
Speaker 3: AI has been around for a very long time. Machine
Speaker 3: learning has been around for a very long time. What's
Speaker 3: new is the generative AI. And I don't view that
Speaker 3: as a risk to people's ability to get work done.
Speaker 3: I view it as an enabler for more efficiency. Right,
Speaker 3: the same twenty minutes that it would take you to
Speaker 3: go to the card catalog, now it takes you a
Speaker 3: minute and a half on the computer. That gives you
Speaker 3: more time to find out what books you want read
Speaker 3: the books, et cetera. So how can you leverage your
Speaker 3: brain to use these tools to help make your life easier.
Speaker 3: I read a number that said that only fourteen percent
Speaker 3: of the country has actually ever used chat GPT. So
Speaker 3: if you're listening to this right now and you have
Speaker 3: used chat GPT, if you're using it as a part
Speaker 3: of your daily life already, you're like light years ahead
Speaker 3: of everybody else. So really, you can't lose. You just
Speaker 3: need to continue to learn how you can incorporate it
Speaker 3: into the work that you're doing every single day, in
Speaker 3: the task that you're doing, so you have more time
Speaker 3: to spend with your family, more time to get high
Speaker 3: value work done, more time to rest. Right, there's so
Speaker 3: many benefits to it.
Speaker 2: You just said something that sparked my interest because we're
Speaker 2: still super early, and I don't think people who are
Speaker 2: not living this every day realize that there's so much
Speaker 2: of the world who still hasn't even ever tried chat GPT.
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely. I think it's around thirty percent of Americans
Speaker 3: have heard of it, right, maybe thirty to forty percent.
Speaker 3: The Pew Research Center just put out a report on it,
Speaker 3: but actually try it, use it, create an account, put
Speaker 3: in a prompt. You know. That's that's less than half
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 2: And so when I look back at that's all went
Speaker 2: back to the first episode of Black Tech, Green Money,
Speaker 2: and you were the first us on this three years ago,
Speaker 2: and we had conversations about afro tech. And when you
Speaker 2: look back at what you intended afro tech to be
Speaker 2: when you first got the idea for it, at the time,
Speaker 2: there was no place we really saw ourselves. There was
Speaker 2: no room that we could gather in.
Speaker 1: And you know, have this convening of the annual delegation.
Speaker 2: Right of black tech talent in the country. Help, how
Speaker 2: do you see afro tech continuing to evolve as we
Speaker 2: do grow in numbers in this industry, in an industry
Speaker 2: that use technology.
Speaker 3: You know, afro tech has definitely become a festival all
Speaker 3: on its own. I'm really proud of how far we've
Speaker 3: come from the days when we were like four hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty people in the Westfield mall and downtown San Francisco,
Speaker 3: people are always like no, like, no legit. Like we
Speaker 3: were in the mall, you know, trying to get everybody
Speaker 3: in and people were trying to sneak in, and it was,
Speaker 3: you know, a beautiful moment of community. And now we'll
Speaker 3: be back and often this year with anywhere between twenty
Speaker 3: thousand people plus, all techies, innovators, people who have an
Speaker 3: interest in figuring out how they can leverage the digital
Speaker 3: revolution to their own benefit, for their communities, for their families,
Speaker 3: for their own knowledge, for their own contribution to society.
Speaker 3: So I'm proud that we've been able to create this
Speaker 3: mass community, not just for the event that happens every year,
Speaker 3: but also our regional events now that we have we
Speaker 3: have happy hours all over the country, New Orleans, New York, Seattle.
Speaker 3: We've got hundreds of thousands of people reading our website
Speaker 3: every single day learning about new technologies and new executives
Speaker 3: who are doing incredible work. So I'm proud that the
Speaker 3: young version of me, the black girl in Saint Louis
Speaker 3: that was twenty years old trying to figure out what
Speaker 3: I wanted to do with my life, would be able
Speaker 3: to go to a site like afrotech now and have
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand different options of what it could look
Speaker 3: like to be a part of this tech ecosystem, as
Speaker 3: opposed to what I saw, which was one article every
Speaker 3: to nine months about somebody black doing something interesting in tech.
Speaker 3: So I'm really hopeful for the future of our Black
Speaker 3: community at large. And I mean it's getting so big well,
Speaker 3: I can barely even keep trapping stuff. Like I see
Speaker 3: new apps, new founders raising money every day, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh man, you better go. I'm so proud of everybody.
Speaker 2: You know, across the country, there's this movement against the
Speaker 2: EI work, you know, Affirmative Action just being struck down recently.
Speaker 2: A lot of states are you know, put putting up board,
Speaker 2: putting up walls that don't allow the e I work
Speaker 2: to thrive in et cetera. And with the work afrotech
Speaker 2: is done to create to help us see ourselves number
Speaker 2: one in these spaces, I want to get your thoughts
Speaker 2: on how effective that work of creating spaces for us
Speaker 2: has been with getting us hired.
Speaker 1: In places that we were already qualified for.
Speaker 2: But we're getting the opportunities to work in versus in
Speaker 2: the large part this is the view I come from.
Speaker 1: But I realized the value of both perspectives is.
Speaker 2: Creating our own tables, you know. So it's I'm not
Speaker 2: of the mind to just beat down the walls to
Speaker 2: create opportunities at a table that doesn't.
Speaker 1: Want me there.
Speaker 2: I want to create my own tables, and I want
Speaker 2: to get your thoughts on how do we think about
Speaker 2: these things?
Speaker 3: You know, I believe that people of color in this
Speaker 3: country are the new majority. So there of course is
Speaker 3: going to be a backlash from people who are about
Speaker 3: to be the new minority at trying to keep us
Speaker 3: slow our growth as much as possible. And currently they
Speaker 3: have the systems and the tools and the infrastructure to
Speaker 3: be able to do that because they're the people in power,
Speaker 3: and they have, you know, hundreds of years centuries ahead
Speaker 3: of us to be able to maintain that power. But
Speaker 3: we're catching up faster than they can slow us down.
Speaker 3: You know. I believe that I'm a hopeful pragmatist in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, and I believe that our communities,
Speaker 3: people of color, you know, even the LGBT community, I mean,
Speaker 3: anyone who is deemed a minority in this country is
Speaker 3: gaining power, which is one of theations for the backlash.
Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons why they're trying to tighten
Speaker 3: controls on people's uteruses and trying to say that no,
Speaker 3: you guys are equal now, you don't need these special treatments, right,
Speaker 3: And it's just it's not true. They're wrong, But I
Speaker 3: believe it's a result of the fact that we're gaining
Speaker 3: traction here. So I think that all progress doesn't come
Speaker 3: without tension. And the key is, to your point, stay
Speaker 3: focused and keep fighting the problem, not the people, because
Speaker 3: that's going to be ultimately what continues to allow us
Speaker 3: to push forward. And I agree with you. I mean,
Speaker 3: we're seeing now We've always had ideas about what we
Speaker 3: want to do in the future, how we want black
Speaker 3: folks to have our own channels of distribution, our own networks,
Speaker 3: have our own financial systems, you know, have our own
Speaker 3: venture capitalists, and you're seeing it. Black vcs, even though
Speaker 3: they're having a tough time, still have never raised more
Speaker 3: money than what we've raised. Black founders, even though we're
Speaker 3: having a tough time, collectively, we have never had as
Speaker 3: much assets as we we have had in the last
Speaker 3: couple of years. You know, even startups business owners. The
Speaker 3: twenty twenty huge influx of cash that went into black
Speaker 3: folks hands. Uh, you know that stuff was put to
Speaker 3: good use and a lot of organizations that I know, so,
Speaker 3: you know, even the NAACP like their budget three x
Speaker 3: and since George Floyd's murder, but that's going to go
Speaker 3: a long way for us as a people, as a community.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about social media. I'm curious, well,
Speaker 3: your perspective on Spill and Threads and all the things
Speaker 3: going out. What do you think do you think's going
Speaker 3: to make it?
Speaker 2: Also, I was going to ask you about this because
Speaker 2: I you know, I wasn't gonna name any the Bible.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I was gonna let you name them if
Speaker 2: you wanted to, because you know, I'm on Threads.
Speaker 3: We're on a podcast.
Speaker 1: Listen, this is what it is.
Speaker 2: And so it's so interesting to me because I was
Speaker 2: super excited, and I to say, I'm not excited anymore
Speaker 2: about Spill because I think it has an interesting lane.
Speaker 2: I think the lane one of one of the things
Speaker 2: I've value and businesses is like valuing niche and I
Speaker 2: think that that's okay. And this is actually something I
Speaker 2: learned from you It's like you don't have to be
Speaker 2: striving to be this humongous unicorn in the CE. You
Speaker 2: can have a very thriving, good company, growing company, and
Speaker 2: still be in the realm of Silicon Valley a small
Speaker 2: lifestyle theme, and lifestyle doesn't necessarily mean you're doing two million.
Speaker 2: It can mean you're doing twenty it can mean you're
Speaker 2: doing thirty million.
Speaker 1: Dollars a year.
Speaker 2: And you were actually somebody on this podcast who helped reframe.
Speaker 1: My thinking on that.
Speaker 2: And so I feel like Spill even fan base in
Speaker 2: a way, like they have this lane that if they
Speaker 2: can stay authentic to that, there could be opportunity there.
Speaker 2: I think it's harder now when you have an app
Speaker 2: that can come out like Threads, that automatically has your
Speaker 2: population and automatically you come into the gate with followers,
Speaker 2: it's really hard to compete with that, and you don't
Speaker 2: have to go build an audience.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. My recommendation to the Spill founders is that
Speaker 3: they don't try to compete with Twitter, and they don't
Speaker 3: try to compete with Threads. You know, you build for
Speaker 3: your target demographic of the black community, the talkative, conversational
Speaker 3: black community, and figure out how you can uniquely solve
Speaker 3: our problems. Because thread to your point, is going to
Speaker 3: be the size of Twitter on this trajectory in the
Speaker 3: next less than a year, right, and so there's going
Speaker 3: to be just a lot of noise, just like there
Speaker 3: is on Twitter already, just like there is on Instagram.
Speaker 3: And Meta is one of the biggest companies in the world.
Speaker 3: They're going to continue to be incentivized to build for
Speaker 3: the majority and the people who are going to be
Speaker 3: advertisers at the end of the day, and so at
Speaker 3: some point we will be secondary to their priority. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think they did a great job seeding it. I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people who worked on the threads
Speaker 3: app that are internal at Meta, and they have black
Speaker 3: employees who are involved in building this so that they
Speaker 3: had an inclusive team. But you can already see it's
Speaker 3: just going to be Instagram. But with words, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it's not gonna be It's not even like actually gonna
Speaker 3: be how Twitter was, where you've got to meet new
Speaker 3: people and get in different interest groups and kind of
Speaker 3: dig deep into different conversations. I don't think that's what's
Speaker 3: going to happen. I think it's just going to be
Speaker 3: the same people you've all on Instagram. We've our follow
Speaker 3: up threads, and people are gonna be pontificating and using
Speaker 3: chat GPT like they do on LinkedIn right now, and
Speaker 3: it's just going to be this like weird LinkedIn hybrid
Speaker 3: with Instagram.
Speaker 2: So what do you say to founders who are out
Speaker 2: raising money? And like, if the Spill guys were raising
Speaker 2: money today, I'm imagine it'd be a lot harder to do.
Speaker 1: That versus months ago when they did it.
Speaker 2: It's but we always get caught up in this trap
Speaker 2: of well, how do you compete with the thing that's
Speaker 2: out there? How do you create your mote, how do
Speaker 2: you create your authentic lean to where you can grow,
Speaker 2: especially if you're taking outside capital. How do you prove
Speaker 2: to people that you can survive in a water that
Speaker 2: Twitter exists in, that thread now exists in If I'm spilled, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean my perspective is that Spill has an opportunity
Speaker 3: to build a community, and they can do something that
Speaker 3: Clubhouse messed up on, right, which is to build a
Speaker 3: community that is self sustaining, right, And I recommend that
Speaker 3: they building a revenue stream immediately. Don't go the role
Speaker 3: of trying to get one hundred million user names and
Speaker 3: then be AD supported, because that's one of the reasons
Speaker 3: why Twitter is having a tough time, and that's one
Speaker 3: of the reasons the Reddit's having a tough time. It's
Speaker 3: because they're all ads supported. Now fan Base, I mean,
Speaker 3: I do feel bad for fan Base a little bit
Speaker 3: right at wrong time. You know, if fan Base came
Speaker 3: out this year or last month and was able to
Speaker 3: get wrapped up in the PR campaigns of Twitter and Threads,
Speaker 3: they could be just as successful. It's a very different build,
Speaker 3: Like it's a different solution to the same problem. But
Speaker 3: my recommendation, at least fan Base is not AD supported,
Speaker 3: I guess, is my point, right, Like, I think it's
Speaker 3: smart to have a different type of business model behind
Speaker 3: the app, because if you're going to be ad supported,
Speaker 3: then you have to go for scale, which is going
Speaker 3: to put you up against the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this brings up an interesting conversation I've been I've
Speaker 2: had on this podcast several over the last episodes. Is
Speaker 2: this idea of being mission driven versus opportunistic. And even
Speaker 2: with the guys from the Slim and Huskies I talked
Speaker 2: about this with and so like they didn't grow up
Speaker 2: loving pizza, you know, right, But they found an opportunity
Speaker 2: to do something, and not often do we get an
Speaker 2: opportunity just to be opportunistic. But we were told you
Speaker 2: have to have a mission and you have to have
Speaker 2: a like you know, you're trying to make a change
Speaker 2: in the world. And I think both things are valuable.
Speaker 2: Like when I shop at Target, I'm not shopping at
Speaker 2: Target because I believe in Target's mission. They happen to
Speaker 2: have what I need. But as black exactly but too
Speaker 2: but so often we are put in the position of like,
Speaker 2: you have to believe in something and talk about your
Speaker 2: mission and your values and is that always fair or
Speaker 2: can we just be opportunistic?
Speaker 3: Ooh, I mean you're talking to somebody who I believe
Speaker 3: in both for sure. I mean I think that if
Speaker 3: you only build things for money, it won't work. Like
Speaker 3: you have to be motivated by more than just money.
Speaker 3: You know, there's cheaper, faster ways to make money in
Speaker 3: this world than to build an app, or to try
Speaker 3: to build a huge social network or black community, or
Speaker 3: try to build a media company for black millennials. Right like,
Speaker 3: so so no, I think you've got to be you've
Speaker 3: got to have some sort of purpose driven reason to
Speaker 3: be successful at scale. I'm sure there's outliers. I'm sure
Speaker 3: there's people who don't give a shit and build companies,
Speaker 3: huge companies. But I think that most people who are
Speaker 3: successful have some other motivator other than money.
Speaker 2: So let's put Blavity in this conversation, because Blavity is,
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest black platform on the internet. You know,
Speaker 2: kudos to the entire team for achieving what we've achieved.
Speaker 2: And I was, I was just reading Debora Le's book,
Speaker 2: I Am Debora Lee Is she was describing how bet
Speaker 2: grew and and because of the growth that they had
Speaker 2: in their or mid nineties, you know, late nineties, a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of other opportunities presented themselves. They were chasing
Speaker 2: a clothing line at once, they wanted to do magazines
Speaker 2: and all these different things and original content even and
Speaker 2: so as Blavity continues to grow and be bigger and
Speaker 2: more successful and bring on more talented people, how do
Speaker 2: those how do you think about those opportunities for Blavity
Speaker 2: to dip its toe into other verticals that allow it
Speaker 2: to be more than just a publisher in that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we have a three year vision for
Speaker 3: the company that I socialized and collaborated on with our
Speaker 3: executive leadership team. Because to your point, there's always more.
Speaker 3: When you are serving an underserved community that has such
Speaker 3: a huge impact, like black culture, then you could do anything.
Speaker 3: I could do a clothing line, we could have a
Speaker 3: book club, we could have a we could buy a
Speaker 3: little town and make a little Black adobia. But we
Speaker 3: can do whatever we want, right, So the question is
Speaker 3: how do you evaluate that stuff? And to me, you
Speaker 3: got to have a really clear mission envision. Currently we're
Speaker 3: on a pathway to get to one hundred million in revenue,
Speaker 3: you know, that's our business target and pretty soon, right
Speaker 3: And the reason why we're picking that number is partially
Speaker 3: because we believe that's a number for freedom. I want
Speaker 3: to make sure that this company is lives beyond me,
Speaker 3: that it's an institution that is an advocate and a
Speaker 3: distribution channel for people who are doing interesting things and
Speaker 3: helpful things for underserved voices in this country, whether that's
Speaker 3: talent acquisition and building out our new product, talent Infusion,
Speaker 3: which helps companies hire and recruit black talent and have
Speaker 3: really awesome talent pools, or it's Home and Texture, our
Speaker 3: new brand that focuses on inter your design and helping
Speaker 3: millennials explore if home buying is the right experience for them,
Speaker 3: or how they want to decorate, or what they're going
Speaker 3: to do with their pets and their kids rooms and
Speaker 3: all these types of things. You know, I want to
Speaker 3: make sure that we're there at every life cycle at
Speaker 3: the same time. To your point, like, it's really critical
Speaker 3: to not get distracted, and that getting distracted is not
Speaker 3: mean we don't test stuff. I can give you one
Speaker 3: hundred things if we have tested that that worked out.
Speaker 3: Do you remember lunch table I do Black TV lunch
Speaker 3: table sum at twenty one. I mean I could name
Speaker 3: off the whole thing, and those things don't embarrass me.
Speaker 3: To me, I'm like, yeah, this is our this is
Speaker 3: our job is to test and see what is important
Speaker 3: and sticky to our customer, our target demographic, and if
Speaker 3: they like it, we'll keep building it.
Speaker 2: So we're talking about focus in a way right now.
Speaker 2: And we just talked about these new social media apps,
Speaker 2: and I wonder how you decide what you will share
Speaker 2: because I think about this with the opportunity thread provides
Speaker 2: and what you just discussed with Lavity's sense of focus
Speaker 2: on what it wants to be. How do you decide,
Speaker 2: because there's an opportunity for people to grow a new
Speaker 2: audience on things like Threads because it's it's blue ocean
Speaker 2: right now. Maybe in a week it won't be such,
Speaker 2: but right now there's an opportunity. How do you decide
Speaker 2: what's on brand for you? Or do you have a
Speaker 2: you know filter of all this is not on brand?
Speaker 2: I want to talk about these things well.
Speaker 3: On spell I didn't put my government name because I
Speaker 3: wasn't sure if it was just going to be a
Speaker 3: bunch of gossip. I was like, I don't know, I'm
Speaker 3: a little like my profile picture is not on there.
Speaker 3: I am just observing because any that calls itself was
Speaker 3: like find the tea for black folks, you know, So
Speaker 3: let me not make myself the target on here and
Speaker 3: let me just be a passive viewer. So yes, I
Speaker 3: am very cautious just to make sure that things are
Speaker 3: going on on Threads. I think it's interesting because you
Speaker 3: have all of your instrum followings, but then you actually
Speaker 3: have to say something interesting. You can't just like post
Speaker 3: a cute picture, you know. I started a podcast, the
Speaker 3: Journey Podcast, because I wanted to talk and share my
Speaker 3: thoughts and my ideas and really be in dialogue with
Speaker 3: really interesting people. And that has been a really fun
Speaker 3: space for me because I don't feel like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a ten second clip or it's a just a
Speaker 3: photo moment. It's really a genuine conversation where there can
Speaker 3: be nuance and people can actually understand my perspective and
Speaker 3: I can learn their perspective as well. Threads is going
Speaker 3: to be interesting. I believe that it's going to either
Speaker 3: revert straight to how people were on Twitter, because I
Speaker 3: don't think people change. I don't think humans change Twitter.
Speaker 3: The platform inherently is not bad. It's the people and
Speaker 3: it's the rules. So do we believe that Zuck is
Speaker 3: going to create better rules and empower nicer people. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure. Will Yeah, I'm not sure. What do you think?
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's already people who would complain about
Speaker 2: their filtering and banning of people that Twitter has obviously
Speaker 2: let in. You know, Alex Jones can can have a voice,
Speaker 2: Tristan Tate, Andrew t can have a voice. And Andrew
Speaker 2: if you are ever seeing like a Tristan Tate or
Speaker 2: Andrew Tape. They talk about it. They only show cars
Speaker 2: on Instagram and we're banned because of the other global
Speaker 2: narrative around who they are. And so I think we're
Speaker 2: already seeing it because of Facebook's policies.
Speaker 3: We're already seeing that, right, So, I mean, we'll see it.
Speaker 3: And I think it's such a fun generation for us
Speaker 3: to be a part of. I mean, we're getting to
Speaker 3: see these things, the rise of empires that we thought
Speaker 3: would never fail. We never thought clubhouses failed. We were
Speaker 3: all pissed about Clubhouse and how black people built it
Speaker 3: and how they raise all this money and like all
Speaker 3: this stuff. You know, nobody was Clubhouse do it right now?
Speaker 3: You know. So I'm old of my breath. I'm not
Speaker 3: going to have our team built out a whole content
Speaker 3: strategy for Threads and do all this stuff against it,
Speaker 3: because I think that everything is up for grabs right now.
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful, wild wild west of the Internet.
Speaker 1: Do you think we were too excited about crypto.
Speaker 3: Ooh that's a tough question. You know. I was a
Speaker 3: I wasn't a crypto advocate. I was a blockchain Web
Speaker 3: three advocate and just making sure people understood I believe
Speaker 3: blockchain is still a fantastic innovation and solution to many
Speaker 3: many things, like the idea of having a centralized point
Speaker 3: of information that is not able to be disrupted or
Speaker 3: frauded or anything is something we still need. In fact,
Speaker 3: we may need it more because of generative AI. I
Speaker 3: need to know if this photo has been touched by
Speaker 3: AI or what is the original source. I need to
Speaker 3: know if this book is actually just an aggregation of
Speaker 3: seventeen different books, what is the original source. So I
Speaker 3: believe blockchain still has a world in for us, Like
Speaker 3: there's a world in which blockchain is still a lot.
Speaker 3: I believe that NFTs, which was basically a photo that
Speaker 3: granted you membership with benefits, was bullshit and like you're
Speaker 3: talking to somebody who had like a couple of n
Speaker 3: f G right, I mean, I'm always gonna play the game,
Speaker 3: But like, yeah, I think NFTs gave Web three a
Speaker 3: bad rap. But I believe in the fundamentals of a
Speaker 3: disabrogated source of.
Speaker 2: Truth that because we have these shifting conversations in tech,
Speaker 2: you know, it was the metaverse and then we start
Speaker 2: talking about the metaverse, and it was AI before the
Speaker 2: AI was ar and VR all these different things, and
Speaker 2: you know the metaverse, which Facebook tem changed its name
Speaker 2: to it, and people say, you probably shouldn't have done
Speaker 2: that because because the conversation changed. But then you have
Speaker 2: Apple who puts out or will will release next year
Speaker 2: an entire probably a game changer for.
Speaker 3: The that that sector immediately.
Speaker 1: Oh you got to have it.
Speaker 2: It's a mandatory, even though price point will price a
Speaker 2: lot of people out.
Speaker 3: But initially, all technology is expensive initially, So how do you.
Speaker 2: Think about as an investor, because you're an investor, also,
Speaker 2: how do you think about with what I just said?
Speaker 2: I was I think it just came to my mind
Speaker 2: the Warren Buffet quote, be you know, scared when everybody's greedy,
Speaker 2: be greedy when everybody else is scared. How do you
Speaker 2: think about those things when these technology happens this fast?
Speaker 3: Well, As an investor, I'm relatively conservative with my investments.
Speaker 3: I invest in people. I don't invest in technologies.
Speaker 1: So I invest in.
Speaker 3: People and founders that I think are incredible and deserve
Speaker 3: to win, you know. And you know, I'm an angel
Speaker 3: investor in gold, I'm an angel investor in a company
Speaker 3: called boxed Up. I'm an angel investor in a company
Speaker 3: called public. You know, I like companies that are created
Speaker 3: by people who care. Now from a stocks perspective, and
Speaker 3: like a General Mark Great perspective, you know, you kind
Speaker 3: of want to let the big boys play it out.
Speaker 3: If something's really trendy, it doesn't really matter if you
Speaker 3: jump on it in day one versus like day five hundred,
Speaker 3: because if it's really trendy, it's going to be great
Speaker 3: for a really long time. Right. If if you could
Speaker 3: have bought Facebook stock or Metas stock, I guess whether
Speaker 3: it was year one or even year two, you still
Speaker 3: would have made an incredible return. Right. So for me,
Speaker 3: there's no really like rush to try to be the
Speaker 3: first into any sort of new technology. I think is
Speaker 3: better to wait as an investor. Sorry, just to be
Speaker 3: clear as an investor.
Speaker 1: Okay, got it, got it. You've got a new podcast.
Speaker 1: You just touched on it.
Speaker 2: You have two podcasts now. I'm not sure if you're
Speaker 2: going to keep doing work smart. I think there's value
Speaker 2: for there for sure, But I want to talk about
Speaker 2: the journey for a second. This is, you know, to Fine,
Speaker 2: there's a more personal it's a more personal, intimate Morgan
Speaker 2: the bond that we than we've seen. It delves into
Speaker 2: the captivating stories of purpose driven achievers on their question
Speaker 2: for living.
Speaker 1: Their best lives.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about what this means for you
Speaker 2: as a brand and as a personality a successful black woman,
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, a founder and investor, and more. People want
Speaker 2: to know you, and how do you think about creating
Speaker 2: this type of content that lets people know more about
Speaker 2: you personally and why that might be important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to create this podcast to your point,
Speaker 3: because I wanted to have a place to have a
Speaker 3: conversation and I felt like Instagram and Twitter and all
Speaker 3: these other platforms was too transactional and it wasn't enough
Speaker 3: about like really seeking the nuance. Because I think that
Speaker 3: the devil's in the nuance. I think that's really where
Speaker 3: the real meat of all of our lives are is
Speaker 3: in the gray area. It's not what's black and white.
Speaker 3: That stuff's easy to figure out, and that stuff is
Speaker 3: easy to explain, you know. So I've made some different
Speaker 3: choices in my life that our contrary. I started this
Speaker 3: company when I was twenty four. I made a decision
Speaker 3: that I was going to live my twenties hard, that
Speaker 3: I was going to work my ass off and make
Speaker 3: a lot of personal sacrifices so I could live fully
Speaker 3: in my thirties and beyond, you know, And I made
Speaker 3: a decision to move. I left the coast. I left
Speaker 3: LA to move to Nashville, the middle of Tennessee, right
Speaker 3: in the peak what people would think is the peak
Speaker 3: of my career. My perception is I left LA so
Speaker 3: that I would not peak in that moment of my career,
Speaker 3: so that I could continue to be a contributor and
Speaker 3: a builder and a leader in the space, and so
Speaker 3: that I had longevity as an entrepreneur. And I just
Speaker 3: believe that social media is a lot of really surface
Speaker 3: level things. And my hope is that the podcast can
Speaker 3: help provide people who think differently, people who want to
Speaker 3: live an extraordinary life and want to on their own terms,
Speaker 3: whatever those terms mean for them, that I'm able to
Speaker 3: help give them the tools and the stories to be
Speaker 3: able to do that.
Speaker 2: You know, I brought up work smart, and one of
Speaker 2: the motto, I guess you can call it a work smart,
Speaker 2: so you can work smarter, not harder, right, And I
Speaker 2: guess you can probably think about that and you can
Speaker 2: challenge this, but I think about it in the way
Speaker 2: of like the four hour work week, and you know
Speaker 2: this idea of you know, we need to chill out
Speaker 2: on grind culture and all these different things, and in
Speaker 2: a way to be the devil's advocate, like you could
Speaker 2: talk about, hey, you know, money isn't everything, but you
Speaker 2: got the money.
Speaker 1: But when you don't have the money, money is everything,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: So how does your intention of that idea of working
Speaker 2: smarter not harder, and the intention of hey, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to actually find my success, how do they not correlate
Speaker 2: to each other because you had to grind.
Speaker 1: To get there.
Speaker 3: I'm a capitalist stuff, right, I mean, I'm not one
Speaker 3: of those people who's going to say, you know, just
Speaker 3: live up the land, like screw capitalism and we shouldn't
Speaker 3: have to do like I'm not that person, you know me, Right,
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, you want to beat the odds, there's
Speaker 3: got to be some sort of extraordinary variable for you
Speaker 3: beating the ads, and which in my control is yeah.
Speaker 3: And I believe in I believe in privilege as well,
Speaker 3: Like I had opportunities that were afforded to me from privilege.
Speaker 3: I was born into a two parent household, upper middle
Speaker 3: class in Missouri, you know, so I had that already.
Speaker 3: Is a privilege. We were born in America. That's a privilege.
Speaker 3: So I believe it taking advantage of the opportunities and
Speaker 3: the privileges that you have, being mindful of those. But
Speaker 3: then you also have to do the work right. And
Speaker 3: this kind of there's a lot of narratives and like
Speaker 3: work less right. So that's not what I'm trying to
Speaker 3: say when I talk about work smart. I mean, if
Speaker 3: you listen to the theories that I have, the frameworks
Speaker 3: that I use, it's really about discipline and being your
Speaker 3: best right. And that's just got to be a reflection
Speaker 3: of whatever your baseline is, because we all start at
Speaker 3: different baselines. And that's what I try to talk about
Speaker 3: on the podcast, that's what I try to talk about
Speaker 3: in my newsletters, and that's what I coach the small
Speaker 3: businesses that I work with. I was like, Okay, what
Speaker 3: is your baseline, what is your truth? And then what's
Speaker 3: the gap between your truth and where you want to be,
Speaker 3: and then let's start taking actions to get there. And
Speaker 3: it might mean you have to be uncomfortable temporarily, but
Speaker 3: the truth and the vision should be so freaking juicy
Speaker 3: that she's like, I'm okay being uncomfortable for two years,
Speaker 3: I'm okay being comfortable for six months, I'm okay being
Speaker 3: uncomfortable for ten years because my vision is so good
Speaker 3: that it's going to work out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned Saint Louis and you
Speaker 2: mentioned Nashville, and.
Speaker 1: I wonder could you have done? Because what I think.
Speaker 2: About when I do every episode of this podcast is
Speaker 2: most of us do not live in La New York
Speaker 2: or Atlanta, or but most of us are in just
Speaker 2: random cities, you know, spread across the country, and so
Speaker 2: often content to help us find success is based from
Speaker 2: those locations, and it comes from those perspectives. Could you
Speaker 2: have achieved what you did? And obviously this is hypothetical
Speaker 2: having stayed or only living in the Midwest, did you
Speaker 2: have to go?
Speaker 3: Yes, I had to believe. I do not believe that
Speaker 3: I could have achieved what I've achieved at the age
Speaker 3: and the speed that I did living in Saint Louis, Missouri.
Speaker 3: There's just not enough resources and there's not enough social
Speaker 3: capital for this level of ambition that I had and
Speaker 3: the vision of blavity being in Silicon Valley. You know,
Speaker 3: I started the company living in San Francisco now Silicon Valley.
Speaker 3: You can't follow my model because everything has changed. You know,
Speaker 3: moving to San Francisco is today is not the same
Speaker 3: thing as moving to San Francisco ten years ago. Over
Speaker 3: ten years ago, right So, but at the time, it
Speaker 3: was an epicenter of social capitals, at the center of innovation.
Speaker 3: Your lift driver had a at you know, your apartment.
Speaker 3: Everybody who lives within your apartment building was working for
Speaker 3: a really cool startup and going to hacker houses after work,
Speaker 3: and all types of incredible innovation was happening. Probably the
Speaker 3: same way. It feels the same way that when everyone
Speaker 3: moved to Miami, when people were working on Web three,
Speaker 3: it was like everyone in Web three is spending time
Speaker 3: in Miami. Right So, being a part of communities has
Speaker 3: been what has helped feel me to success. And I
Speaker 3: believe that whatever you're building, if you want to be
Speaker 3: a country music star and you want to be a
Speaker 3: music writer, moving to Nashville is where your community is.
Speaker 3: If you want to be a part of black culture
Speaker 3: and hip hop, you probably should move to Atlanta, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Make it where the best are
Speaker 3: making it. And then when you move somewhere else, You're
Speaker 3: going to be like, I'm a big fish in a
Speaker 3: small path.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want to end this talking about afrotech, but before
Speaker 2: I do, I want to just talk because if anybody
Speaker 2: follows you on social media, they get to learn a
Speaker 2: little bit about how you operate daily. You know, you
Speaker 2: love mancia and journaling is obviously a thing for you.
Speaker 1: Yes, talk about what helps.
Speaker 2: You manage your life as an entrepreneur, as a personality,
Speaker 2: even like some of those tactical things like I got
Speaker 2: to have, you know, my AirPods, like that if I
Speaker 2: don't have my AirPods, I can't survive, Like, like, what
Speaker 2: are some of those things that mean something to you
Speaker 2: in order to function?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's changed over time. The one thing
Speaker 3: that hasn't changed is I was I had a virtual assistant,
Speaker 3: like probably within the first few weeks of founding blavity,
Speaker 3: even back when I was twenty four, when it was
Speaker 3: like weird for someone to have an assistant, you know,
Speaker 3: But I've always valued my time over the cash, and
Speaker 3: so I was willing to pay to offset some of
Speaker 3: the tasks, the research, some of the things that I
Speaker 3: felt like someone else could do. Eighty percent as good
Speaker 3: as I could. That was my threshold. If you can
Speaker 3: do it eighty percent is as good as I can,
Speaker 3: then like you should probably do it first. Right, So
Speaker 3: having a virtual assistant, a personal assistant, or now I
Speaker 3: have a chief of staff, you know, has been really
Speaker 3: critical to my ability to be able to juggle so
Speaker 3: many different types of businesses and teams and you know,
Speaker 3: have somewhat of a life, right. I think that's probably
Speaker 3: the number one contributor to my to my sustainability in
Speaker 3: this world and not being burned out. The second thing
Speaker 3: is my iPhone. I use my iPhone like more than
Speaker 3: I use my laptop or my desktop. You know, I
Speaker 3: can spend all day on my iPhone and get a
Speaker 3: lot of work done. And I think that people underestimate
Speaker 3: this tool. Right here, I think that you really have
Speaker 3: an entire computer operating system in your hands. You can
Speaker 3: be anywhere. You don't need to be at home. You know,
Speaker 3: you don't need to be in front of a desk
Speaker 3: to get a lot of work done, picking up the
Speaker 3: phone and just making a call, right writing out your ideas,
Speaker 3: taking notes. So having an assistant and having a phone,
Speaker 3: iPhone and Wi Fi. Yeah, unto baby.
Speaker 1: Real quick.
Speaker 2: How is the process, because you talk about this on Instagram,
Speaker 2: how's the process of writing a book for you?
Speaker 1: How's that going?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, writing a book is one of the
Speaker 3: hardest things I've ever done. I thought it wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be that hard. Like, you know, people are like,
Speaker 3: I went on a retreat and I wrote my whole book,
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm like, Nahvi, that's bullshit. You you
Speaker 3: definitely did more than just go on vacation and write
Speaker 3: a book like this thing takes a lot of self reflection.
Speaker 3: You know, I wanted didn't want to write a memoir.
Speaker 3: I wanted to write a really tactical book. I don't
Speaker 3: think my life's that interesting. I think what's interesting is
Speaker 3: how we've all worked together, how my co founders and
Speaker 3: I have worked together, how my investors and I have
Speaker 3: worked together, how early employees have worked together and to
Speaker 3: build this thing. And I also have realized that I
Speaker 3: had a lot of trauma as a founder, as a
Speaker 3: black founder, as a female founder, and I've blocked a
Speaker 3: lot of it out because it didn't serve me to
Speaker 3: hold on to it, to have a chip on my shoulder.
Speaker 3: It didn't serve me to keep that stuff. But when
Speaker 3: you're writing a book, you got to go back. You've
Speaker 3: got to ask different people about, well, what was your
Speaker 3: perception of that one time we miss payroll? What was
Speaker 3: your perception of that? Well we had that conference ince
Speaker 3: in the mall, what was your perception of what was
Speaker 3: your perspective of this? And so I've learned a lot
Speaker 3: about from other people's perspectives, you know, talking about this
Speaker 3: book through this process, and I'm really proud of how
Speaker 3: far we've come and how we've defied the odds. I mean,
Speaker 3: it really is an incredible feat of really less than
Speaker 3: three hundred people coming together to decide to do something
Speaker 3: and have this kind of impact. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: Has been being that you are a journaler someone who journals?
Speaker 2: Has that been helpful to you in writing this book?
Speaker 3: Yes and no. Yes, because there's definitely a lot of
Speaker 3: things that I wrote out. Like I remember when I
Speaker 3: was first raising money, I wrote out, you know, who
Speaker 3: I wanted to raise money from and how much I
Speaker 3: wanted from them. So it's beautiful to see be like, oh,
Speaker 3: like low Ki, I did that right. And then there's
Speaker 3: other things where I'll like write out like you know,
Speaker 3: I want to wake up in the morning and do
Speaker 3: this and do that. I do a lot of affirmational
Speaker 3: journey where you're kind of like projecting into the future
Speaker 3: and writing things out like visualization, and then there's all
Speaker 3: types of stuff I'm like, definitely didn't do that, Like
Speaker 3: thank god, ye that did not come to light.
Speaker 2: All right, let's end this talking about afro Tech. What
Speaker 2: for the last couple of minutes, I have you so
Speaker 2: afro Tech November this year back in Austin.
Speaker 1: Also have afro Tech Executive this fall.
Speaker 2: So if I'm going to my first afro Tech this year,
Speaker 2: or let's say I'm preparing for afro Tech this fall,
Speaker 2: how can I get involved over the summer to be
Speaker 2: more intimate with the brand and people who I may
Speaker 2: meet there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say first things first, to sign up
Speaker 3: for the newsletter because you're going to get a daily
Speaker 3: be a part of the daily conversation of what's going
Speaker 3: on and what's trending. We also write a lot about
Speaker 3: the different people who are coming to Afrotech, everyone from
Speaker 3: board executives to CEOs of major corporations, to the founders
Speaker 3: who raise the most amount of money this year, to
Speaker 3: the vcs who are funding them right, So regardless of
Speaker 3: where you sit in the ecosystem, the newsletter is going
Speaker 3: to give you a peek into what you can expect
Speaker 3: at Afrotech, and we oftentimes will kind of introduce you
Speaker 3: to people that you'll see there. The second thing is,
Speaker 3: try to go to one of our events before you
Speaker 3: get to Afrotech. It is incredibly beautiful and overwhelming to
Speaker 3: be around twenty thousand plus very nerdy black folks having
Speaker 3: a good time, but also like we're intense, you know,
Speaker 3: Like imagine if you are a nerd and you think
Speaker 3: that this is a place for you multiply your intensity
Speaker 3: about whatever you nerd out about. But all of us,
Speaker 3: we're not quiet people, you know, We're not like laid
Speaker 3: back people. You know. We are going in that space
Speaker 3: in the convention center at the music festivals and we
Speaker 3: are feeling so excited. So just a really rich experience
Speaker 3: that can also be draining. So go to the happy
Speaker 3: hour before. Try to meet up with people locally who
Speaker 3: are going to Afrotech. Go to an Afrotech executive in
Speaker 3: New York so that you can see some familiar faces
Speaker 3: and you're able to take full advantage of the experience
Speaker 3: because well, child, we did not stop during Afrotech. It's
Speaker 3: like four or five days if NonStop.
Speaker 2: Are we talking anything yet about how this might be
Speaker 2: different in years past?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can talk about how it's different. We've got
Speaker 3: a beautiful, beautiful lineup music and the last year we
Speaker 3: did music for the first time and I had a
Speaker 3: music festival. So this year we're taking it to another level.
Speaker 3: So by the time this comes out, you should see
Speaker 3: the announcement of who's the artists. So I'm like super
Speaker 3: promped about that. And we have an outdoor park this year,
Speaker 3: bringing that back because we just know there's so many
Speaker 3: people in the city and some people who aren't necessarily
Speaker 3: going to the convention center but want to participate, So
Speaker 3: we're making more spaces for people. We've three exercises the
Speaker 3: executive stage as more black folks have moved up into
Speaker 3: director of VP level positions, we're having conversations that are
Speaker 3: more specific to little managers and how they can move
Speaker 3: forward from a professional development perspective. Then, last, but not least,
Speaker 3: I will not be there as I am having a baby.
Speaker 3: This is so I will be giving birth during AFRO
Speaker 3: God willing, so I.
Speaker 1: Sweet, I know.
Speaker 3: I like, as soon as I found out I do did,
Speaker 3: I was like, and there's no way, there's no way
Speaker 3: to for that's it. Like Mighty Day is the first
Speaker 3: day of Afrotech, so hopefully everyone will be sending me
Speaker 3: all their black joy and uh you know, we'll call
Speaker 3: be birthing the experience.
Speaker 2: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Speaker 2: Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia, and
Speaker 2: it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with
Speaker 2: additional production support by Sarah Er and Rose McLucas. Specially
Speaker 2: thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Surroundo, and Mayamuldrew. Learn
Speaker 2: more about my Guess and other tech dist's an innovators
Speaker 2: at afrotech dot com. I'm joining Black Tech Green Money.
Speaker 2: Shire is with somebody We get your money, Piece of Luck.